Greens call on Labor to support 'fairer' method to share six-year Senate terms (Excerpt quoted)

Quote:

The New South Wales Greens senator Lee Rhiannon has warned Labor to abide by fairer Senate rules in the allocation of six and three-year Senate terms following the double dissolution election. “If Labor supports the first-six-elected method rather than the fairer method of a half Senate recount then Labor will be helping the Coalition boost their Senate numbers at the next election,” Rhiannon said. “The main reason for is that under a recount method [Justice party’s] Derryn Hinch wins a long-term Senate seat at the expense of a Liberal senator.” At issue is how long senators have before they face the next election. Senators are elected on six-year terms but only half the Senate faces an election at the end of every three-year House of Representatives term. Malcolm Turnbull’s decision to call a double-dissolution election means the Senate needs to determine which senators are on a three-year term and which are on a six-year term, in order to fall back into the usual election pattern. There are two counting methods which are available to the Senate. The first, which has been used historically in double dissolutions, sees the first six of 12 state senators receive the six year terms and the remainder appointed for three years. The second is a Hawke government reform known as section 282 which creates a second Senate count to allocate positions that more closely replicate a half-Senate election. “Section 282 is more democratic and the Senate has acknowledged that on previous occasions,” Rhiannon said. “If the crossbenchers are interested in reducing the power of the major party duopoly then they would support the fairer recount method.” The Australian Electoral Commission has yet to conduct the second count but the Senate is not legally committed to use the s282 results to determine the terms. Previously the “first six” method has been used. An early analysis by data expert, Grahame Bowland, who is also co-convenor for the Western Australia Greens, found that under the s282 count, Rhiannon and Hinch would receive six-year terms over Victorian Liberal Scott Ryan and NSW Labor senator Deb O’Neill. If the Australian Electoral Commission second Senate counts supports that analysis (and Bowland’s work has mirrored the AEC count thus far), this would force the major parties to decide whether to marginalise Hinch and the Greens, who have a balance of power bloc, or support longer terms for their own senators.

The government will go with whatever method it thinks will best serve the Lib/Lab duopoly.

This is a toughy.  While I'd like to see a more diverse senate, giving the antisemite Rhiannon  a 6 year term is 6 years too much.

What was their crime to get a six year term?

Belgarion wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 10:05pm:

The government will go with whatever method it thinks will best serve the Lib/Lab duopoly.

That's why I'm here and elsewhere - to ensure that duopoly vanishes from this earth.

I think you will see labor and liberal combine to force to historical method. We get rid of Hinch and at least one hanson senator quickly. That cant be bad.

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5^th, 2016 at 11:11pm:

This is a toughy.  While I'd like to see a more diverse senate, giving the antisemite Rhiannon  a 6 year term is 6 years too much.

Agree

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 6^th, 2016 at 11:40am:

I think you will see labor and liberal combine to force to historical method. We get rid of Hinch and at least one hanson senator quickly. That cant be bad.

I agree!

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 6^th, 2016 at 12:43am:

Belgarion wrote on Aug 5th, 2016 at 10:05pm: The government will go with whatever method it thinks will best serve the Lib/Lab duopoly. That's why I'm here and elsewhere - to ensure that duopoly vanishes from this earth.

well we did get a taste of that with the gillard govt.....two wishy washy senators got masses of support for their electorates....by all accounts.... is that really how its meant to work?..

I have always hoped whoever runs and is blessed with a seat........  govt reps or senate they are there for all of us....

why would I ever think that? :(

cods wrote on Aug 6^th, 2016 at 12:09pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Aug 6th, 2016 at 12:43am: Belgarion wrote on Aug 5th, 2016 at 10:05pm: The government will go with whatever method it thinks will best serve the Lib/Lab duopoly. That's why I'm here and elsewhere - to ensure that duopoly vanishes from this earth. well we did get a taste of that with the gillard govt.....two wishy washy senators got masses of support for their electorates....by all accounts.... is that really how its meant to work?.. I have always hoped whoever runs and is blessed with a seat........  govt reps or senate they are there for all of us.... why would I ever think that? :(

If your hope had been anything more than just hope with both Labor and Liberal, there would be no call for a divided house.  If their policies and approach to issues actually stacked up for the majority, there would be no problem.

6 year terms?

They should all get life!

http://voice-wilderness.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Man-in-prison.jpg

The senate is the important house of review.  We don't want it to become a rubber stamp, for labor or liberal.   :) 

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 6^th, 2016 at 11:40am:

I think you will see labor and liberal combine to force to historical method.

I'm not so sure. The order of election method would favour the Coalition.

ORDER OF ELECTION (states)

NSW: 3 Coalition 3 ALP, 2 Coalition, 1 ALP, 1 Grn, 1 ON, 1 LDP.
VIC: 3 Coalition, 2 ALP, 1 Grn, 2 Coalition, 2 ALP, 1 Grn, 1 Hinch.
QLD: 3 Coalition, 2 ALP, 1 ON, 2 Coalition, 2 ALP, 1 Grn, 1 ON.
WA: 3 Coalition, 2 ALP, 1 Grn, 2 Coalition, 2 ALP, 1 Grn, 1 ON.
SA: 2 Coalition, 2 ALP, 2 NXT, 2 Coalition, 1 ALP, 1 NXT, 1 Grn, 1 FFP.
TAS: 2 Coalition, 2 ALP, 1 Grn, 1 Lambie, 2 Coalition, 3 ALP, 1 Grn.

TOTALS: 16 Coalition, 13 ALP, 3 Grn, 2 NXT, 1 ON, 1 Lambie, 12 Coalition, 11 ALP, 6 Grn, 3 ON, 1 LDP, 1 Hinch, 1 FFP, 1 NXT.

This split would strongly favour the Coalition 16-12, the ALP slightly 13-11 and heavily disadvantage the Greens 3-6. Sum of these differences is 9.

The s282 method would give Hinch and a NSW Green 6-year terms instead of a Victorian Liberal and NSW Labor candidate. This would give much fairer splits of 15-13 for the Coalition, 12-12 for ALP and 4-5 Greens. Sum of differences is 3 - clearly the s282 method is MUCH fairer.


longweekend58 wrote on Aug 6^th, 2016 at 11:40am:

We get rid of Hinch and at least one hanson senator quickly. That cant be bad.

Hinch was elected 10th, so under the order of election mwthod he would get a 3-year term. Hinch would get a 6-year term under the recount method.

The same for the One Nation candidates - I think three of them would end up with 3-year terms under both methods. Hanson herself may get a 6-year term under both methods.

Good way of getting the cross bench offside, early in the term.

Could see a boycott of all noncore issues by them. That would stuff up the coalition's recession causing agenda.

____ wrote on Aug 6^th, 2016 at 2:55pm:

Good way of getting the cross bench offside, early in the term. Could see a boycott of all noncore issues by them. That would stuff up the coalition's recession causing agenda.

I don't see why. Senators like Day, Lyonhjelm and most of the ON senators would get three-year terms under both methods.

As long as most of One Nation get six I'm happy.

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 6^th, 2016 at 3:25pm:

As long as most of One Nation get six I'm happy.

That won't happen. The only ON senator who is likely to get a six-year Senate term is Hanson. The others were elected late in the count on low numbers of votes.

Bam wrote on Aug 6^th, 2016 at 2:23pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 6th, 2016 at 11:40am: I think you will see labor and liberal combine to force to historical method. I'm not so sure. The order of election method would favour the Coalition. ORDER OF ELECTION (states) NSW: 3 Coalition 3 ALP, 2 Coalition, 1 ALP, 1 Grn, 1 ON, 1 LDP. VIC: 3 Coalition, 2 ALP, 1 Grn, 2 Coalition, 2 ALP, 1 Grn, 1 Hinch. QLD: 3 Coalition, 2 ALP, 1 ON, 2 Coalition, 2 ALP, 1 Grn, 1 ON. WA: 3 Coalition, 2 ALP, 1 Grn, 2 Coalition, 2 ALP, 1 Grn, 1 ON. SA: 2 Coalition, 2 ALP, 2 NXT, 2 Coalition, 1 ALP, 1 NXT, 1 Grn, 1 FFP. TAS: 2 Coalition, 2 ALP, 1 Grn, 1 Lambie, 2 Coalition, 3 ALP, 1 Grn. TOTALS: 16 Coalition, 13 ALP, 3 Grn, 2 NXT, 1 ON, 1 Lambie, 12 Coalition, 11 ALP, 6 Grn, 3 ON, 1 LDP, 1 Hinch, 1 FFP, 1 NXT. This split would strongly favour the Coalition 16-12, the ALP slightly 13-11 and heavily disadvantage the Greens 3-6. Sum of these differences is 9. The s282 method would give Hinch and a NSW Green 6-year terms instead of a Victorian Liberal and NSW Labor candidate. This would give much fairer splits of 15-13 for the Coalition, 12-12 for ALP and 4-5 Greens. Sum of differences is 3 - clearly the s282 method is MUCH fairer. longweekend58 wrote on Aug 6th, 2016 at 11:40am: We get rid of Hinch and at least one hanson senator quickly. That cant be bad. Hinch was elected 10th, so under the order of election mwthod he would get a 3-year term. Hinch would get a 6-year term under the recount method. The same for the One Nation candidates - I think three of them would end up with 3-year terms under both methods. Hanson herself may get a 6-year term under both methods.

Labor would still. support the original method. The advatage to the libs of labor is slight at best and the disadvantage to both using s282 is substantial. Plus, it is in EVERYONEs benefit to get rid of Hanson and Hinch ASAP.

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 6^th, 2016 at 5:37pm:

Plus, it is in EVERYONEs benefit to get rid of Hanson and Hinch ASAP.

Hanson & Hinch, in the Australian Parliament.

WTF!?

The world has gone fvking crazy!

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 6^th, 2016 at 3:25pm:

As long as most of One Nation get six I'm happy.

You support one nation?  You can breathe unaided?

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 6^th, 2016 at 5:40pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 6th, 2016 at 5:37pm: Plus, it is in EVERYONEs benefit to get rid of Hanson and Hinch ASAP. Hanson & Hinch, in the Australian Parliament. WTF!? The world has gone fvking crazy!

it would appear so. therefore it is labs and libs best interests to get them 3yr terms because they know they wont win a second term - they never do.

Hanson's mob is perfect for wedging the far right nutters in the coalition.
Now do they out crazy ONP, or do the become wallflowers?

decisions, decisions.

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 6^th, 2016 at 5:49pm:

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 6th, 2016 at 3:25pm: As long as most of One Nation get six I'm happy. You support one nation?  You can breathe unaided?

Anything that pisses off the ALP and Greens makes me happy

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 6^th, 2016 at 6:47pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 6th, 2016 at 5:49pm: bogarde73 wrote on Aug 6th, 2016 at 3:25pm: As long as most of One Nation get six I'm happy. You support one nation?  You can breathe unaided? Anything that pisses off the ALP and Greens makes me happy

Not speaking for Labor. Greens are cock-a-hoop the hard right is splintering.
Anti government, anti semitic, anti science. And that's only one of the crazies.

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 6^th, 2016 at 5:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 6th, 2016 at 5:40pm: longweekend58 wrote on Aug 6th, 2016 at 5:37pm: Plus, it is in EVERYONEs benefit to get rid of Hanson and Hinch ASAP. Hanson & Hinch, in the Australian Parliament. WTF!? The world has gone fvking crazy! it would appear so. therefore it is labs and libs best interests to get them 3yr terms because they know they wont win a second term - they never do.

Who are "they"?

Election 2016: Pauline Hanson secures six-year Senate term, Derryn Hinch has three years until re-election

Quote:

Pauline Hanson has secured a six-year Senate term, while Derryn Hinch has only three years before he faces re-election, under a deal struck by the major parties. Senators are usually elected for six years at a time, but the July 2 double dissolution election put the fate of all 76 senators on the line. A normal election sees only half the Senate face voters, with the exception of the ACT and Northern Territory, whose two senators each are up for re-election at every federal poll. Cabinet Minister Mathias Cormann told Sky News the first six senators elected in each state will get six-year terms. "Under the methodology used so far, the first six senators elected would get six years, whoever they are and whoever they represent," Senator Cormann said. When pressed about whether minor party senators would be unfairly disadvantaged, he said the outcomes varied in different states. The Opposition intends to back the move, ensuring it will be endorsed by the Senate. Labor's Senate leader Penny Wong said: "Labor will support the Government's proposal to allocate senators' terms of office according to the order in which Senators were elected in each state." "This is consistent with the Senate's previous practice following double dissolution elections and reflects the will of the voters." There had been speculation about how the major parties would decide on the Senate terms. There are two methods of allocation available — the "recount method" and the "order-elected method". The latter method, which has been adopted by the Coalition and Labor after this year's poll, sees the first six senators elected in each state receive the longer terms, and the rest given three years in the Upper House. In both 1998 and 2010, the Senate voted in favour of using the recount method following future double dissolutions. That means Senator Hanson could lead her One Nation Party in the Senate for the next six years, alongside other crossbenchers, including South Australians Nick Xenophon and Stirling Griff from the Nick Xenophon Team and Tasmania's Jacqui Lambie. Senator Hinch had pushed for the "recount method", arguing it would deliver a fairer result.

Who cares
Any parasite that gets into politics is a parasite for life.
They take bribes and live off the profits and if it looks like they are caught, they simply retire on their guaranteed pensions.

If euthanasia is to be made legal, it should be compulsory for all politicians after they finish their terms.

New South Wales
Six years            
Marise Payne      LIB      
Sam Dastyari      ALP      
Arthur Sinodinos      LIB      
Jenny McAllister      ALP      
Fiona Nash      NAT      
Deborah O'Neill      ALP      

Three years
Concetta Fierravanti-Wells      LIB
Doug Cameron      ALP
Lee Rhiannon      GRN
John Williams      NAT
Brian Burston      ONP
David Leyonhjelm      LDP

Victoria
Six years            
Mitch Fifield      LIB      
Kim Carr      ALP      
Richard Di Natale      GRN      
Bridget McKenzie      NAT      
Stephen Conroy      ALP      
Scott Ryan      LIB      

Three years
Jacinta Collins      ALP
James Paterson      LIB
Gavin Marshall      ALP
Derryn Hinch      JP
Janet Rice      GRN
Jane Hume      LIB

Queensland
Six years            
George Brandis      LNP      
Murray Watt      ALP      
Pauline Hanson      ONP      
Matt Canavan      LNP      
Anthony Chisholm      ALP      
James McGrath      LNP      

Three years
Claire Moore      ALP
Ian Macdonald      LNP
Larissa Waters      GRN
Barry O'Sullivan      LNP
Chris Ketter      ALP
Malcolm Roberts      ONP

Western Australia
Six years            
Mathias Cormann      LIB      
Sue Lines      ALP      
Scott Ludlam      GRN      
Michaelia Cash      LIB      
Glenn Sterle      ALP      
Dean Smith      LIB      

Three years
Patrick Dodson      ALP
Linda Reynolds      LIB
Chris Back      LIB
Louise Pratt      ALP
Rodney Culleton      ONP
Rachel Siewert      GRN

South Australia
Six years            
Simon Birmingham      LIB      
Penny Wong      ALP      
Nick Xenophon      NXT      
Cory Bernardi      LIB      
Don Farrell      ALP      
Stirling Griff      NXT      

Three years
Anne Ruston      LIB
Alex Gallacher      ALP
David Fawcett      LIB
Skye Kakoschke-Moore      NXT
Sarah Hanson-Young      GRN
Bob Day      FFP

Tasmania
Six years            
Eric Abetz      LIB      
Anne Urqhuart      ALP      
Peter Whish-Wilson      
Jacqui Lambie      JLN      
Stephen Parry      LIB      
Helen Polley      ALP      

Three years
Jonathon Duniam      LIB
Carol Brown      ALP
GRN      David Bushby      LIB
Lisa Singh      ALP
Catryna Bilyk      ALP
Nick McKim      GRN

bugger me , how is Sinodinus even still around  ::)

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 6^th, 2016 at 5:37pm:

Bam wrote on Aug 6th, 2016 at 2:23pm: longweekend58 wrote on Aug 6th, 2016 at 11:40am: I think you will see labor and liberal combine to force to historical method. I'm not so sure. The order of election method would favour the Coalition. ORDER OF ELECTION (states) NSW: 3 Coalition 3 ALP, 2 Coalition, 1 ALP, 1 Grn, 1 ON, 1 LDP. VIC: 3 Coalition, 2 ALP, 1 Grn, 2 Coalition, 2 ALP, 1 Grn, 1 Hinch. QLD: 3 Coalition, 2 ALP, 1 ON, 2 Coalition, 2 ALP, 1 Grn, 1 ON. WA: 3 Coalition, 2 ALP, 1 Grn, 2 Coalition, 2 ALP, 1 Grn, 1 ON. SA: 2 Coalition, 2 ALP, 2 NXT, 2 Coalition, 1 ALP, 1 NXT, 1 Grn, 1 FFP. TAS: 2 Coalition, 2 ALP, 1 Grn, 1 Lambie, 2 Coalition, 3 ALP, 1 Grn. TOTALS: 16 Coalition, 13 ALP, 3 Grn, 2 NXT, 1 ON, 1 Lambie, 12 Coalition, 11 ALP, 6 Grn, 3 ON, 1 LDP, 1 Hinch, 1 FFP, 1 NXT. This split would strongly favour the Coalition 16-12, the ALP slightly 13-11 and heavily disadvantage the Greens 3-6. Sum of these differences is 9. The s282 method would give Hinch and a NSW Green 6-year terms instead of a Victorian Liberal and NSW Labor candidate. This would give much fairer splits of 15-13 for the Coalition, 12-12 for ALP and 4-5 Greens. Sum of differences is 3 - clearly the s282 method is MUCH fairer. longweekend58 wrote on Aug 6th, 2016 at 11:40am: We get rid of Hinch and at least one hanson senator quickly. That cant be bad. Hinch was elected 10th, so under the order of election mwthod he would get a 3-year term. Hinch would get a 6-year term under the recount method. The same for the One Nation candidates - I think three of them would end up with 3-year terms under both methods. Hanson herself may get a 6-year term under both methods. Labor would still. support the original method. The advatage to the libs of labor is slight at best and the disadvantage to both using s282 is substantial. Plus, it is in EVERYONEs benefit to get rid of Hanson and Hinch ASAP.

As it turns out, you're right about Labor supporting the "original" order-elected method. Perhaps Labor has as much desire to clean out the Senate crossbench as the Liberals do - even if it makes little real difference: Hinch and a NSW Green (Rhiannon) gets the three-year terms instead of a Victorian Liberal (Ryan) and NSW Labor (O'Neill). It also makes no real difference to the One Nation Senators - Hanson would get a six-year term and the others a three-year term under both allocation methods.

Its time wrote on Aug 12^th, 2016 at 6:56pm:

bugger me , how is Sinodinus even still around  ::)

At least there are a couple of good ones for the 6 years.  Ol Sino's must have spent all his AWH director's money so needs the cash.  Good on Lambie

The Libs + Nats + Nxt seem to be the winners here and the ALP the losers.

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2016 at 7:49am:

The Libs + Nats + Nxt seem to be the winners here and the ALP the losers.

Rather imaginative interpretation, considering the Coalition have lost Senators to One Nation in three states and the ALP have gained seats.

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 6^th, 2016 at 11:42am:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 5th, 2016 at 11:11pm: This is a toughy.  While I'd like to see a more diverse senate, giving the antisemite Rhiannon  a 6 year term is 6 years too much. Agree

Surely there are some more fundamental issues of democracy here that should be placed above who you want to see in power?


Quote:

The Libs + Nats + Nxt seem to be the winners here and the ALP the losers.

The ALP is supporting it now, and not without a big dose of self interest.

Last time, in 1987, it was Labor and the Democrats supporting it at the expense of the coalition and other parties.

It's good to see SHY only got 3 years.

South Australia
Six years           
Simon Birmingham      LIB      
Penny Wong      ALP      
Nick Xenophon      NXT      
Cory Bernardi      LIB      
Don Farrell      ALP      
Stirling Griff      NXT      

Three years
Anne Ruston      LIB
Alex Gallacher      ALP
David Fawcett      LIB
Skye Kakoschke-Moore      NXT
Sarah Hanson-Young      GRN
Bob Day      FFP