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General Discussion >> General Board >> Gandalf's version of capitalism
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Message started by freediver on Feb 27th, 2014 at 7:34pm

Title: Gandalf's version of capitalism
Post by freediver on Feb 27th, 2014 at 7:34pm
It is astonishing that someone could get this so obviously wrong and be so unaware of how clueless they are:


polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 3:15pm:
No, because in this case "foreign governments" (if the MUI can even be considered government - which I'm not even sure about) is simply just another trader.


No they aren't. They are a barrier to trade. If you consider the government to be a trader in this context you are a socialist. At the very least, you are about as from from the principles of free market capitalism as you can get.


polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 3:15pm:
Its so much simpler than you're making it out to be - you can even forget about the the meat product, since all we're talking about here is the selling and buying of halal certificates - which consists of:


Certificates are not the product of interest. They are part of the barrier to trade.


polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 3:15pm:
Thats all this is about, and its completely irrelevant if one of the traders is partly or wholly a "foreign government".


No it isn't, because the whole point of free market capitalism is that the government does not dictate who is allowed to participate in the market by issueing certificates and saying who is allowed to sell them and for how much. Again, you have no concept at all of what free market capitalism is. You see goods and money changing hands without people being shot and assume that means it is capititalism. It isn't. You have no clue.


polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 3:15pm:
And yes, the MUI can sell their product (the certificates) on whatever terms it damn well pleases. If its an unreasonable price, the buyer can simply choose not to buy it (which they did) - and the MUI is the loser.


The buyer is also the loser. The potential customers are also losers. Everyone loses.


polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 3:15pm:
Thats how capitalism works FD.


It is the opposite of capitalism.

Title: Re: Gandalf's version of capitalism
Post by Karnal on Feb 27th, 2014 at 8:04pm
Oh, what a dandy. Who predicted this one?

Are you lonely, FD?

Title: Re: Gandalf's version of capitalism
Post by gandalf on Feb 28th, 2014 at 5:47am
Freediver, presumably in a parallel universe wrote:


Quote:
Please try to limit the number of new threads you start about the same politician. If you have three posts to make bagging the same MP for different reasons, put them all in the same thread rather than starting multiple ones. Also, please take the time to check for other threads about the same MP or topic and post in them instead.

That's how we do things at OzPolitic. It helps to keep the interesting discussions on the first page of the board rather than being bumped off the first page by a stream of 2 post threads. If you aren't getting many responses to your threads, it probably means you are starting too many and people are losing interest. The point is to start discussions and get people thinking, not to spam the board with your own agenda.


http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1278205388/0#0

;D ;D

Title: Re: Gandalf's version of capitalism
Post by freediver on Feb 28th, 2014 at 8:43am
Is that why you move any new threads about Muhammed?

Title: Re: Gandalf's version of capitalism
Post by Stratos on Feb 28th, 2014 at 9:15am
yeah, do as he says, not as he does Gandalf.

Anything less is obviously a sinister Muslim plot to take over Australia through Shariah law

Title: Re: Gandalf's version of capitalism
Post by freediver on Feb 28th, 2014 at 12:23pm
Gandalf deleted this thread from the Islam board.

Title: Re: Gandalf's version of capitalism
Post by Swagman on Feb 28th, 2014 at 1:53pm

freediver wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 7:34pm:
It is astonishing that someone could get this so obviously wrong and be so unaware of how clueless they are:



freediver wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 7:34pm:
If you consider the government to be a trader in this context you are a socialist



freediver wrote on Feb 28th, 2014 at 12:23pm:
Gandalf deleted this thread from the Islam board.


Hmm so Gandalf is a clueless, socialist muslim?????  :D

Title: Re: Gandalf's version of capitalism
Post by freediver on Feb 28th, 2014 at 7:28pm
Apparently. Is anyone willing to defend his view that this Halal crap is a textbook example of capitalism in action?

Title: Re: Gandalf's version of capitalism
Post by freediver on Mar 1st, 2014 at 10:34am
Now Gandalf is trying to get this discussion back on the Islam board, but he still hasn't figured out how foreign governments banning trade and setting up regional monopolies within our borders goes against the spirit of capitalism:


polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 28th, 2014 at 9:34am:

Quote:

freediver wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 7:34pm:
It is astonishing that someone could get this so obviously wrong and be so unaware of how clueless they are:


polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 3:15pm:
No, because in this case "foreign governments" (if the MUI can even be considered government - which I'm not even sure about) is simply just another trader.


No they aren't. They are a barrier to trade. If you consider the government to be a trader in this context you are a socialist. At the very least, you are about as from from the principles of free market capitalism as you can get.


polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 3:15pm:
Its so much simpler than you're making it out to be - you can even forget about the the meat product, since all we're talking about here is the selling and buying of halal certificates - which consists of:


Certificates are not the product of interest. They are part of the barrier to trade.


polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 3:15pm:
Thats all this is about, and its completely irrelevant if one of the traders is partly or wholly a "foreign government".


No it isn't, because the whole point of free market capitalism is that the government does not dictate who is allowed to participate in the market by issueing certificates and saying who is allowed to sell them and for how much. Again, you have no concept at all of what free market capitalism is. You see goods and money changing hands without people being shot and assume that means it is capititalism. It isn't. You have no clue.


polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 3:15pm:
And yes, the MUI can sell their product (the certificates) on whatever terms it damn well pleases. If its an unreasonable price, the buyer can simply choose not to buy it (which they did) - and the MUI is the loser.


The buyer is also the loser. The potential customers are also losers. Everyone loses.


polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 3:15pm:
Thats how capitalism works FD.


It is the opposite of capitalism.


FD's Spam thread removed as per FD's own advise to "start discussions and get people thinking, not to spam the board with your own agenda." Also deleted two follow-up mock threads.

Meanwhile...

[quote]Certificates are not the product of interest. They are part of the barrier to trade.


Certificates are the only product of interest in this case, and until you understand that the trading in certificates is the only relevant point here, you will continue to be confused and continue with this bizarre game of histrionics.

- QLD abattoirs want to buy halal certificates - for what purpose is completely irrelevant
- MUI sells said abattoirs the certificates it wants.
- MUI gets greedy and charges exorbitant fees for these certificates
- abattoirs respond by boycotting MUI and starts looking for better deal

Its really that simple. Confusing the issue with irrelevant details like monopolies and foreign governments is nothing but red herrings to the central point I was making.

[/quote]

Title: Re: Gandalf's version of capitalism
Post by Swagman on Mar 1st, 2014 at 10:38am

freediver wrote on Feb 28th, 2014 at 7:28pm:
Apparently. Is anyone willing to defend his view that this Halal crap is a textbook example of capitalism in action?


Nope, halal crap looks more like Nazism in action to me....

Title: Re: Gandalf's version of capitalism
Post by freediver on Mar 2nd, 2014 at 2:36pm
Gandalf often complains about 'argumentum ad Hitlerum', but when you worship someone who goes round slaughtering Jews and preaching anti-Jewish propaganda in the street, what else can you expect?

Title: Re: Gandalf's version of capitalism
Post by freediver on Jul 10th, 2016 at 12:31pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 26th, 2014 at 7:31am:

freediver wrote on Feb 25th, 2014 at 10:11pm:
These stickers are being sold by one nation candidates. I think you can still buy them online. No government is forcing anyone to buy them (or giving businesses the "option" of paying tens of thousands of dollars for them or be barred from the market).


Actually, being "barred" from a market is not anti-capitalist - it is consistent with the free-market principle that a trader can trade with whomever they damn well please - with whatever conditions they please.


Title: Re: Gandalf's version of capitalism
Post by gandalf on Jul 10th, 2016 at 3:43pm
feeling bored FD?

Title: Re: Gandalf's version of capitalism
Post by freediver on Jul 10th, 2016 at 6:06pm
Ajax was demanding I dig up the evidence for another thread, and I realised that little gem should be included in here.

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