Post by greggerypeccary on Feb 20th, 2013 at 4:33pm
Maqqa wrote on Feb 20th, 2013 at 3:34pm:
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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl
General Discussion >> General Board >> Sea Shepherd gets rammed http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1361338495 Message started by Maqqa on Feb 20th, 2013 at 3:34pm |
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Title: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Maqqa on Feb 20th, 2013 at 3:34pm
http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/16191290/sea-shepherd-rammed-by-japanese-ship/
Anti-whaling activists claim two of their vessels have been "rammed" by a Japanese boat in the Southern Ocean. The Sea Shepherd group alleges the Japanese factory boat Nisshin Maru deliberately collided with their ships, the Steve Irwin and the Bob Barker, and ordered them to leave the area. They also claim Japanese coastguards are throwing "concussion grenades" towards the fleet. "The Nisshin Maru has rammed the Steve Irwin and the Bob Barker but both vessels continue to hold their positions," Sea Shepherd Captain Paul Watson said in a statement on Facebook. "The Bob Barker is taking on water in their engine room." Sea Shepherd spokesman Jeff Hansen told the ABC the Steve Irwin had been struck on the stern and the right hull. "We're now under attack with concussion grenades being thrown by armed Japanese coastguard in Australian waters at our crew," he said. "We're very concerned for the safety of our crew at the moment." No injuries have been reported. The Japanese Institute of Cetacean Research has been contacted for comment. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Maqqa on Feb 20th, 2013 at 3:35pm
These pirates should get rammed
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by imcrookonit on Feb 20th, 2013 at 4:20pm
Japanese whaling ship 'rams' Sea Shepherd protesters
From: AAP February 20, 2013 Paul Watson says a Japanese whaling ship has rammed its two protest ships. Source: PerthNow ANTI-whaling group Sea Shepherd says a Japanese whaling ship has rammed its two protest ships, and one, the Bob Barker is taking on water. >:( Captain Paul Watson, in a posting on his Facebook page on Wednesday afternoon, claimed the Nisshin Maru had rammed both the Steve Irwin and the Bob Barker "but both vessels continue to hold their positions. The Bob Barker is taking on water in their engine room". They were in the Southern Ocean, north of the Australian Casey Research Station. Speaking from aboard the Steve Irwin, Watson told 3 News the Bob Barker, with 38 crew aboard, was hit a number of times as they tried to stop the Nisshin Maru from refuelling, which he says is illegal in the Southern Ocean. ''(It) has lost power, toppled the main mast, smashed up the deck,'' he said. A mayday has been issued but the crew had managed to stop water from coming in, he said. The Australian Maritime Safety Authority is responsible for responding to maydays in that part of the ocean. The authority is in the process of responding. Former Australian Greens leader Bob Brown said the federal government should send the navy to Antarctic waters to restore international law. ;) ''This is a gross breach of international law by the Japanese,'' Dr Brown, who is a director of Sea Shepherd Australia, told reporters in Melbourne on Wednesday. ''I'm calling the Australian government to dispatch naval vessels now - not just to film the slaughter of the whales by the Antarctic fleet but to restore international law. ''Tokyo is not in control of ... Australian waters.'' Capt Watson said the Japanese ship had also struck the Korean-owned fuel tanker, the Sun Laurel. The Japanese Institute of Cetacean Research could not be reached for immediate comment, but last week it said the Bob Barker had tried to sabotage Japanese research vessel Nisshin Maru and Yushin Maru No.2 as they tried to transfer a whale between the two ships. The confrontation comes the same month the US Supreme Court upheld an injunction ordering Sea Shepherd to keep away from Japanese whaling ships in the Southern Ocean. AAP |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by greggerypeccary on Feb 20th, 2013 at 4:33pm Maqqa wrote on Feb 20th, 2013 at 3:34pm:
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Deathridesahorse on Feb 20th, 2013 at 6:02pm |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 20th, 2013 at 6:46pm
LOL, they spend the entire season trying to get their boat in the way of the whalers, then blame the whalers when there is a collision. I told you they would come home crying like little bitches when this happens.
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Dnarever on Feb 20th, 2013 at 8:32pm Quote:
Why would the US supreme court think it has control over Australian Arctic waters? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by bobbythebat1 on Feb 20th, 2013 at 8:42pm freediver wrote on Feb 20th, 2013 at 6:46pm:
FD, surely you've got to have some sympathy for Paul Watson & his team? After all the Jap ships were illegally loading fuel oil at a latitude greater than 60 degrees. They are actually at 65 degrees. This illegal act was stopped by the Sea Shepherd in Australian waters. Surely our own military patrol boats should have intervened & been doing their job? Now the Sea Shepherd has been illegally rammed & weapons used illegally against it. FD - don't you obey fishing regulations? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by thelastnail on Feb 20th, 2013 at 8:49pm freediver wrote on Feb 20th, 2013 at 6:46pm:
the real cry babies are the australian government who refuse to do what they are supposed to do because they might upset those poor little japs :( |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by mantra on Feb 20th, 2013 at 9:01pm Quote:
Both the major parties are gutless when it comes to standing up for what is right. We're just a laughing stock to the rest of the world and only here to be trampled on by parasites and thieves and that includes the Japanese. Quote:
Apparently the US has jurisdiction over the whole of the planet and its seas and its divided up with a specific Court judge appointed to each section to rule as he sees fit. Quote:
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 20th, 2013 at 9:28pm Quote:
Never heard of that one before. If it is anything like their claim that Australia owns the southern ocean and whaling there breaks international law then it is a croc of poo. I suppose it is a good sign that they have given up on that old line. Quote:
If you see someone talking own their mobile while driving does it give you the right to run them off the road? Quote:
Doing their job would be to arrest Paul Watson. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by bobbythebat1 on Feb 20th, 2013 at 9:35pm freediver wrote on Feb 20th, 2013 at 9:28pm:
I hadn't heard about it either till Paul Watson said it on the news this afternoon. Quote:
If you see someone talking own their mobile while driving does it give you the right to run them off the road?[/quote] No - but the police should intervene & not have to let civilians uphold the law. Quote:
Doing their job would be to arrest Paul Watson[/quote] Our navy should enforce our laws. Question: do you throw your undersize catch back? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 20th, 2013 at 9:40pm Quote:
Where should they intervene first - the guy talking on his mobile, or the hippy trying to run people off the road? Quote:
Not in international waters they shouldn't. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by bobbythebat1 on Feb 20th, 2013 at 9:47pm freediver wrote on Feb 20th, 2013 at 9:40pm:
FD - that's a contrived false analogy. Talking on a mobile is different to killing whales & loading fuel oil in an Antarctic wilderness. Paul Watson is not a hippy - he's the captain of a vessel that is trying to do the right thing for our planet & uphold international law. Quote:
Not in international waters they shouldn't. [/quote] [/quote] I thought it was Australian Antarctic territory as well as a protected wilderness? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 20th, 2013 at 10:03pm Quote:
You are right. Talking on your mobile is actually illegal. Hunting whales is not. But the point is still valid. Whatever bullshit excuse sea shepherd has is not a good reason for trying to sink boats in the southern ocean. Quote:
You are confused Bobby. Sea Shepherd are the only ones breaking the law. Quote:
That's what you get for listening to idiots like Paul Watson. Under Australian law it is, but international waters are not governed by Australian law. It's an empty claim, like if Japan started making rules for the middle of the Pacific Ocean. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by bobbythebat1 on Feb 20th, 2013 at 10:20pm freediver wrote on Feb 20th, 2013 at 10:03pm:
You are confused Bobby. Sea Shepherd are the only ones breaking the law. Quote:
That's what you get for listening to idiots like Paul Watson. Under Australian law it is, but international waters are not governed by Australian law. It's an empty claim, like if Japan started making rules for the middle of the Pacific Ocean.[/quote] Dear FD, I think these claims will be settled by the the International Whaling Commission not you. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by bobbythebat1 on Feb 20th, 2013 at 10:33pm |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by rabbitoh07 on Feb 20th, 2013 at 11:53pm Maqqa wrote on Feb 20th, 2013 at 3:35pm:
Why do you want to see Australian boats rammed in Australian waters by the boats of another country acting against Australian laws? Are you a communist? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by rabbitoh07 on Feb 20th, 2013 at 11:55pm freediver wrote on Feb 20th, 2013 at 6:46pm:
Australian boats In Australian waters. Rammed by a foreign country breaking Australian laws. You are unAustralian. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 21st, 2013 at 12:59am
This is sad FD. So sad I'll ignore the MQ presence. >:(
. I applaud the attention drawn to this atrocious state of affairs,,, All power to SeaShep and Cap'n Watson.. I guess your name is some sort of play on 'FEDS' ... >:( how you can chastise and denigrate Sea Sheperd, whilst insisting that the Japanese whalers have credibility ..and are entitled..?!!! to try to damage our ships in Aus waters.... to risk killing our dedicated protestors and people of principle,, who put their lives on the line... !!!! OH OK I GET IT... taking the piss huh.!! literal folk like me tend to go with the expressed words, first. I forgive you... you are using a ploy to find out what people think.... don't be so shifty..!!! This action by the Japanese is ..??? bizarre .... surreal... a face-saver?? a what???... attempt to gain sway by possessing whale carcasses??? Good on Sea Sheperd ... and Bob Brown... they are doing the RIGHT thing... unlike the govt... which is pretending nothing is happening.... 'Research' 'Schmesearch' .... ...into what?>?? for what??? Japs don't traditionally eat whale meat...they can't sell all the meat they have stockpiled already...!! SO what's it all about?? POWER.... influence over Oil rich antarctic regions? Scaring off Australian oppo..? WELL .. SEEMS THE ONLY OZZIES FACING IT ARE THE PEOPLE RISKING THEIR LIVES ... wonder where our Navy is..??? all broken down, in dry dock perhaps?? or patrolling some middle east gulf... ? NOT HERE are they??? The Japanese are not just popping in a toe to test the water.. they are saying... this water is OURS. F OFF OZ FOOLS. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by mantra on Feb 21st, 2013 at 7:46am
FD is pro whaling unlike most of us who hate seeing these huge beautiful creatures brutally slain and used for some bulldust excuse.
An averaged size fish might take a few seconds to kill, but whales suffer agonisingly sometimes for hours while they're being slaughtered in the most inhumane way. It is a sport to the whalers and it's run by Japan's wealthiest citizens who are in a position to influence the Japanese government (and no doubt Australia and the US). Japan is one of our biggest trade partners. Whale meat is not even that palatable, but it's been forced onto their menu in the hope that the children will develop a taste for it. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 21st, 2013 at 12:39pm Quote:
They were settled about 30 years ago. Some politicians like to pretend it is an unresolved issue, as this allows them to pretend to be doing something about it without actually lifting a finger. But the reality is, Japan is not breaking international law by whaling in the Southern Ocean. Sea Shepherd is. That is why when the Japs sank their stupid bat boat, there was not a thing they could do about it, except of course use it as another excuse to get money from gullible hippies to sink more boats. Quote:
It is not Australian waters. If Japan decided it owned the Pacific ocean that would not be an excuse for Japanese pirates to start ramming boats they don't like on the high seas. Quote:
What I am saying is that they are entitled under international law to take those whales. This is a simple statement of fact. On a broader note, it is a natural human right to choose what animals to eat. Some choose chicken. Some choose whale. It is not your place to impose your choices on others against their will. Quote:
Most fish in the supermarket probably took something like an hour to die. We eat far more intelligent animals than whales in far greater numbers that have suffered far more than the whales. This argument drips with hypocrisy. Quote:
How would you know? You are prevented by law from even trying it. Have you tried whale before? Or are you just parroting what the deluded hippies tell you? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Doctor Jolly on Feb 21st, 2013 at 1:32pm
Japan has the right to hunt limited numbers of whales for scientific reasons.
What is happening is Japan are hunting whales for commercial reasons, albeit in an unregulated black market, but you can easily buy whale meat in Japan. Japanese government has no interest in shutting down this black market. So can we do other than interupt their whaling operations, seriously ? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 21st, 2013 at 5:49pm
. We eat far more intelligent animals than whales in far greater numbers that have suffered far more than the whales. This argument drips with hypocrisy.
You talk rubbish here FD... Perhaps you're a cannibal??? Your argument drips of BS.....out of your ars... |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by red baron on Feb 21st, 2013 at 6:22pm
The Japanese Ambassador was in Washington talking peace; whilst the bombers were in the air and enroute to Pearl Harbour.
You can learn a lot from history. Read a little about the honourable Japanese marched our nurses into the ocean at Singapore, then machine gunned them. Think they've changed? A tiger doesn't change its stripes nor does the Jap ideology which is, "I'm alright Jack and screw you." The Japs couldn't be trusted then and nothing has changed in between. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by mantra on Feb 21st, 2013 at 6:40pm freediver wrote on Feb 21st, 2013 at 12:39pm:
When fish are caught one at a time - a humane fisherman will give it a knock on the head and kill it instantly. Perhaps those who use nets and those who don't care will leave them flapping around for an hour. Quote:
How would you know? You are prevented by law from even trying it. Have you tried whale before? Or are you just parroting what the deluded hippies tell you? [/quote] You probably haven't tasted it either and wouldn't know whether it was palatable, yet you're an advocate for hunting whales. Most sources seem to lead to the same information ie whale meat is not popular nor tasty to a younger generation. Catching whales is a tradition and once done out of necessity for survival and sustenance, but the rich elders demand this "cultural" slaughter continue just for the fun of it. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Rider on Feb 21st, 2013 at 6:48pm
and yet we condone the killing of dugongs in our very own waters, by our very own citizens.
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by mantra on Feb 21st, 2013 at 7:05pm Rider wrote on Feb 21st, 2013 at 6:48pm:
This is true. I'm not sure too many people condone the killing of dugongs and rare sea turtles, but successive governments have allowed this hunting to occur for many different reasons. We can't afford to support all these "traditions" any longer. Hunting was once a necessity for survival, but is now just a sport. It's no surprise so many native animals have become extinct in this country. The dugong is an endangered animal - but it won't be long before it's gone forever. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 21st, 2013 at 7:08pm Quote:
They are taking limited numbers. The IWC is currently drawing up plans for the resumption of commercial whaling. Until then Japan is stuck with the current situation. Quote:
So Japanese schools are giving children 'black market' food now? Seriously, try applying a common sense filter before parroting this nonsense. Quote:
Do you remember our politicians describing this country as a law abiding nation? If you don't like the law, try to change if. If you can't change it, put up with it. Sea Shepherd's terrorism is not the answer, just like you can't run people off the road if you think what they are doing should be illegal. Quote:
Think about it Emma. I know you have been programmed to the racist anti-Japanese propaganda machine, but it does not take much to see through it. Quote:
See, this is what I am talking about. Nothing to do with animal welfare, sustainability, food security, economics, human rights etc. Just plain unadulterated racism. Quote:
I have never seen a fisherman try to 'knock a fish on the head'. Quote:
It can take that long just to get the nets in. Meanwhile the fish are literally gasping. But that's OK because white people do it, isn't it? Quote:
I would try it if it was legal. How is this in any way a criticism? Is banning food the default position and we have to 'earn' the right to choose what to eat? Quote:
You mean Sea Shepherd and Greenpeace both agree with each other that whale meat tastes bad and is poisonous and is actually dolphin and pet cat meat? Quote:
Same with eating carrots, should we ban that? Since when is this a valid reason to deny people one of the most fundamental human freedoms? You have swallowed hippy propaganda so unquestioningly that you not only flip human rights on its head, you now think this is a rational argument to start from. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by muso on Feb 21st, 2013 at 8:25pm
The whales are a side issue. From the viewpoint of environmental harm, whaling is negligible. The real issue is climate change, but people are probably sick of hearing that and their attention is being hijacked by stupid stunts and cutesy marine mammals instead.
The actions of the Sea Shepherd amount to piracy under international law. Nothing justifies that. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by mantra on Feb 21st, 2013 at 8:47pm freediver wrote on Feb 21st, 2013 at 7:08pm:
I've seen it done on a number of occasions with a block of wood. The fish dies instantly. Quote:
It can take that long just to get the nets in. Meanwhile the fish are literally gasping. But that's OK because white people do it, isn't it?[/quote] No. What difference does skin colour make? Quote:
I would try it if it was legal. How is this in any way a criticism? Is banning food the default position and we have to 'earn' the right to choose what to eat?[/quote] We create certain laws when the majority find an issue unacceptable. The Japanese have been given their quota and they don't stick to it. They also venture into areas where they don't have permission. These laws are made so Australians can protect a little part of this planet. The Japanese don't respect boundaries and if the government won't take action - the Sea Shepherd will. Quote:
You mean Sea Shepherd and Greenpeace both agree with each other that whale meat tastes bad and is poisonous and is actually dolphin and pet cat meat? [/quote] No. There are many sources online which have no reference to Sea Shepherd or Greenpeace and they are similar in content. Whale meat is considered a "delicacy" - a bit like tiger's testicles or shark fins, but not to the young. Should we let any animal, endangered or not, be slaughtered to satisfy the taste buds of a minority of traditionalists? Quote:
Do you think that anyone who believes in a little conservation of flora and fauna is a hippy? There is no argument. It's just a simple matter of you disagreeing with an issue that the majority believe should be respected and preserved. Do carrots screech out in pain when they're pulled from the earth? Do their babies suffer when their mother is gone? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 21st, 2013 at 8:57pm
yuk FD
why would you want to hunt a sentient being like a whale.?? Would you eat it??? Do you have trophy fish on your wall? Do you think hunting is a manly thing to do... so its OK? I don't understand your position here... Japan is clearly not taking whales for scientific research... which is the only legal way they can do so.. So they are law-breakers... its simple really... :-? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 21st, 2013 at 8:59pm
oh... and I HAVE seen FISHER's knocking just caught fish on the head..
what on earth, or sea, are you talking about?? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by JC Denton on Feb 21st, 2013 at 9:11pm Quote:
if this is even true, why does it matter and have any relevance to whether or not whale meat should be banned? acquired tastes are everywhere in food - beer, wine (disgusting imo), coffee, tea, caviar, etc. FD's right - this is just a big double standard because people attribute cultural value to whales. pigs are pretty smart, but we slaughter them by the thousand. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by mantra on Feb 21st, 2013 at 9:25pm JC Denton wrote on Feb 21st, 2013 at 9:11pm:
In regard to coffee, caviar and pigs - yes - these exploitations should be curbed, but it's not going to happen because no-one cares enough. Perhaps people care about whales because they are a mammal and a creature of beauty. We don't like hearing about elephants being slaughtered, so it's natural that we don't want their ocean counterpart destroyed either. We can all enjoy beauty, but not everyone wants to eat it or see it suffer. We're so overpopulated at the moment and very casual and careless with our food sources - there will come a day when we might all be desperate for whale meat for sustenance, but of course there won't be any left. If slaughter doesn't kill them off, overfishing will. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 21st, 2013 at 9:28pm muso wrote on Feb 21st, 2013 at 8:25pm:
Absolutely do not agree Muso... From the viewpoint of environmental harm, whaling is negligible... ..this is a very narrow view of environmental harm you possess .... the manner in which we humans operate on this earth has everything to do with the environment, and harm,, and climate change. To say whaling is a sideshow.. :o no it is very representative, of the approach in general, of the way we CARE for the planet. It condones and propagates the 'old thinking'... use it up, poison it... turn it to desert.. overpopulate, overconsume..destroy deforest.... this should be obvious... as such the Sea Shepherd and Greenpeace, and all the other nfp org's operating in the world today...and all the supporters, to protect wilderness and diversity ... ARE the only real hope for HUMAN BEINGS. To dismiss efforts against such foulness as the Japanese whalers as stunts and diversions is a pretty sad thing...IMO... sorry Muso... :( |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 21st, 2013 at 11:22pm
Minister Tony Burke was on telly, putting the govt position,,.... in relation to the reasons behind their lack of direct action in this matter... and I do kind of get the position they are in... interesting...
Political poison for the govt and the protection of the Antarctic... My view?? The Japanese are being extremely provocative in their insistense on illegally slaughtering whales. Knowing as they do the majority view..world wide... they are really dishing it up to the Aus govt to finesse the situation... ..our govt have undertaken 'legal action' to try and stop it....very expensive, lengthy legal action........ But it really does make you realise... .....it only reinforces the rightness of the actions of the Sea Shepherd. and all supporters.. to show and teach the people of the world that its down to us... . THERE IS NO ONE ELSE!!! |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Chard on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 2:34am JC Denton wrote on Feb 21st, 2013 at 9:11pm:
I have an acquired taste for good whiskey. The difference between my acquired taste and that of someone who likes tiger schlongs is my preference doesn't contribute the extinction of an entire species of animal life and criminal acts associated with poaching and black marketeering. JC Denton wrote on Feb 21st, 2013 at 9:11pm:
I love bacon. Bacon is smacking awesome and if you disagree you're probably a jihad loving communist that hugs trees and hates football. That said, the difference between me eating bacon and someone else eating whale bits is pigs are domesticated animals we breed in numbers enough that population of pigs is massively sustainable (at least until the Bacon Apocalypse comes), and whales are wild animals with very small populations (some whales has populations so small they're effectively going extinct from inbreeding caused by having such low numbers the entire group is first cousins or closer. Think Mississippi, but with cetaceans). Ok, why the hell is Bacon Apocalypse not a real thing? Whiskey, tango, foxtrot, over. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 2:46am
Agree...
I like bacon too... I'd never eat whale meat. Or tiger schlong, or take bear bile or rhino horn, >:( |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 2:51am
I actually also like beef, lamb and fish.... but I do sometimes feel it is wrong... guilt... I think I am too empathic...
I really don't like eating chicken..!! But I still enjoy my animal protein. As you say Chard... we breed them to eat them. No comparison to whales as food. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Rider on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 6:47am mantra wrote on Feb 21st, 2013 at 7:05pm:
Yeah, maybe we will see the Steve Irwin ramming a few REAL Australian ships (dingys) in real Australian Waters. Cry me a river of hypocrisy. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 8:42am Quote:
Plenty. That is why you barely hear a peep when white people hunt whales. But if the Japs do it it is the end of the world. Greenpeace for example deliberately focus their fundraising efforts on Japanese whaling rather than white people whaling, because they raise more funds that way. They are fueling and then profiting from racism under the guise of environmentalism. Quote:
I think you are confusing whales and tuna. If not, please inform us what the legal whaling quota is for Japan. Quote:
That's because they don't need permission. Again, you are swallowing hippy propaganda without thinking. Quote:
Good intentions are not a substitute for actual law. Quote:
Can you explain how this reasoning is any different from Al Quaida? I'm sure they make up plenty of rules and boundaries that we don't respect, and get even more pissed off than Paul Watson about it. Quote:
You mean people parroting them without thinking about it or referencing them, then other people parroting it because they really want to believe it, and pretty soon you have thousands of ignorant hippies all saying whale tastes nasty and none of them have ever tasted it. Quote:
Yes you should. You certainly should be calling for it to be banned just because you think it is weird. Quote:
The people who get all confused about it are hippies, like you turning fundamental human rights on their head. Quote:
Wow, I see where you are coming from now mantra. You really have rejected freedom completely and everything should be banned except lentils and carrots and whatever else you deem 'necessary'. Quote:
Sure there will. Quote:
They eat krill mantra. Emma: Quote:
Probably for the same reason people hunt pigs. Quote:
I'd give it a go and I think I should have the right to import it from Japan. After all I eat sushi. I am not one of those hicks who rejects certain foods out of racism. Quote:
No, I eat them. Quote:
It is a manly thing to do, but that is not the reason it is OK. I don't need your permission and I do not respect your 'boundaries', and if you turn to terrorism because you can't get your way, you should be put in jail. Quote:
More ignorant hippy propaganda. Scientists often eat the fish they study. They are not mutually exclusive. Quote:
You are right that it is very simple. You are wrong about them breaking any laws. Quote:
Emma, it is free range, sustainably harvested wild meat. I thought this was trendy for hippies. Unless of course those nasty Japs do it... Quote:
But it is a pointless stunt. Whales were saved from commercial extinction decades ago. Most people have moved on to the real issues, but a few clingons have tried to turn one victory into some kind of religion. Quote:
Earth to Emma: it is not illegal. Quote:
LOL, I think 'never ending' would be a better description. Or 'never going to make it to court because they would look like complete idiots and would no longer be able to pretend they are doing something.' Quote:
Then you are a complete hypocrite. Every genuine criticism you have of whaling applies ten times over to pigs. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 8:44am
Chard:
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What species are you referring to? It still amazes me how many of the anti whaling mob don't even seem to realise that whales are not all one species. Quote:
The whale harvest is not unsustainable. The only real difference is that pigs are pumped full of nasty chemicals and suffer their entire lives in inhumane conditions. That is why all the rational people who agree with you on whaling want bacon banned first. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Chard on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 11:57am freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 8:44am:
Learn to read. Kind of difficult to harvest tiger dicks from whales. freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 8:44am:
Depends on the specific kind of cetacean you're talking Bout. freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 8:44am:
WTF does that have to do with anything I posted? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 12:25pm Quote:
Soory, I assumed you were attempting to make some kind of relevant point. My mistake. Quote:
So which kind are you talking about? The ones that are not actually harvested? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Chard on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 1:36pm freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 12:25pm:
I was saying that not all acquired tastes are the same, you obtuse f*ck. Somehow you confused "tiger" and "whale" and instead of admitting your mistake and addressing my argument you go back to you're usual stall tactic bullshit. freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 12:25pm:
Wait, so you're now claiming that only unendangered whales are hunted? Please say yes so I can sh*t all over your next post, set the pile of post and sh*t on fire, and point at it while typing "this is how pointless arguments die". |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by greggerypeccary on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 2:50pm freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 8:42am:
"Japan's whaling illegal -Burke" "The federal government says whaling by Japan is illegal wherever it happens ... " "'It doesn't matter what part of the ocean it is in, Australia's view is that it is just as illegal,' Mr Burke told reporters." "'That's why we have taken Japan to the International Court of Justice." http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=846256 |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 5:46pm Quote:
Why is this relevant to Whaling? Quote:
Minke whales are not endangered. They are very common. Welcome to the debate. I have been saying this for years, including several times in this thread. Quote:
That's why they keep talking about taking Japan to the ICJ. The reason they never actually get round to it is because it is not actually illegal. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by greggerypeccary on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 5:53pm freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 5:46pm:
"That's why we have taken Japan to the International Court of Justice." "It's much better that we have taken the legal action that we have taken, that we are in the International Court of Justice, that we are getting closer and closer to decision day there." http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=846256 |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by greggerypeccary on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 5:55pm freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 5:46pm:
http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?p1=3&p2=1&case=148 |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by red baron on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 5:59pm
If it wasn't for carers such as the good Sea Shepherd those Japs would be down there turning the seas crimson until there wasn't a single whale left.
Good on you Sea Shepherd go do our Navy's job for them, courtesy of the gutless Julia Gillard and our Government of "I know nothings" (Schulz move over) I hope you kick Jap arse all the way back to the Sea of Japan. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by greggerypeccary on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 6:05pm freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 5:46pm:
"31 May 2010. "I attach an Application by Australia instituting proceedings against Japan in the dispute concerning Japan’s JARPA II Program of “Scientific Whaling” (Australia v. Japan). "I also attach an instrument signed by the Minister for Foreign Affairs appointing the Agent and the Co-Agent of Australia for the purposes of those proceedings. "Yours sincerely, (Signed) Lydia MORTON. "APPOINTMENT OF AGENT AND CO-AGENT For the purposes of the conduct of the proceedings in the International Court of Justice against Japan in the dispute concerning Japan’s JARPA II Program of “Scientific Whaling” (Australia v. Japan), I hereby appoint William McFadyen Campbell QC, First Assistant Secretary, Office of International Law, AttorneyGeneral’s Department, as Agent for Australia and Her Excellency Lydia Elisabeth Morton, Ambassador of Australia to the Kingdom of the Netherlands, as Co-Agent for Australia. "(Signed) Stephen SMITH, Minister for Foreign Affairs" INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE APPLICATION INSTITUTING PROCEEDINGS filed in the Registry of the Court on 31 May 2010 WHALING IN THE ANTARCTIC (AUSTRALIA v. JAPAN) http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/148/15951.pdf |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Dnarever on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 6:07pm red baron wrote on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 5:59pm:
You mean that there would be as many whales left as there are in the northern oceans within 20,000 Kilometres of Japan - about none. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by greggerypeccary on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 6:11pm freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 5:46pm:
"Australia institutes proceedings against Japan for alleged breach of international obligations concerning whaling" THE HAGUE, 1 June 2010. Australia yesterday instituted proceedings before the International Court of Justice against the Government of Japan ... http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/148/15953.pdf |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 6:11pm red baron wrote on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 5:59pm:
It was actually the whaling countries that created the IWC and saved the whales from commercial extinction. No-one wants the whales extinct, not even those evil Japs. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by red baron on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 6:35pm
Thg International Court of Justices' decision (should it ever eventuate) would have about as much impact on Japan as a troublesome mosquito.'
Incidentally before the Second World War the Japanese used to be depicted as 'The Nippons' and were figures of fun for their cheap and usually crap products. So much as changed since then. And Japan gave the monolith U.S.A. and all the rest of us the wake up call of our lives during the Second World War. (Wasn't born then but know the history) It should be carved in stone for future generations, NEVER EVER TRUST THE JAPANESE they will smile at your face, whilst they open you up from stem to stern. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by mantra on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 8:25pm freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 8:42am:
The Japanese have skin like alabaster. The average Norwegian or Icelander would have darker skin. Perhaps it's the brown eyes that Greenpeace object to and not the skin colour? ::) Quote:
They're allowed to catch about 1,000 whales annually, although this isn't always the case. They've been caught with illegal whale meat on various occasions. For the last couple of years - they haven't met their legal quota - and Greenpeace is to thank for that. Quote:
What do you think a sanctuary represents? Quote:
Yes you should. You certainly should be calling for it to be banned just because you think it is weird.[/quote] It is not weird - it is cruel and unnecessary. Whaling doesn't pay for itself and most Japanese resent the fact that their taxes have to subsidise an unpopular and unsustainable sport because of a few old men. Quote:
The people who get all confused about it are hippies, like you turning fundamental human rights on their head.[/quote] What about the fundamental human rights of the majority who want an end to whaling. If these whaling nations needed the meat for subsistence - there wouldn't be the protests. There has been international protesting against whaling for many decades. Who is right? You - a pro-whaler or the anti-whalers? Quote:
Wow, I see where you are coming from now mantra. You really have rejected freedom completely and everything should be banned except lentils and carrots and whatever else you deem 'necessary'.[/quote] Coffee plantations use child slave labour. Caviar production is not sustainable and pigs - as repetitively discussed are raised and slaughtered inhumanely. Quote:
They eat krill mantra.[/quote] There is a huge commercial krill market and it's growing rapidly. Krill apparently has amazing health benefits - so no doubt this will eventually lead to a diminishing supply. To claim our "fundamental" rights - we should be able to do whatever we please and take whatever we want regardless of anyone else's objections, but to live in a civilised society we have to make concessions and curb our greed a little. Hasn't our greed led to global warming? If all of us only took what we needed, the gluttonous wouldn't have to suffer - neither would the malnourished. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 8:51pm
sad this argument even exists... and further proof the world need s
orgs like Sea Shepherd Greenpeace WWF WSPC Bush Heritage et al... NEEDS IT SO MUCH.. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 9:08pm Quote:
Nice that you pay so much attention to skin colour. It's because they're Japs. Racism is not bound by hypocrisy. Neither is anti-whaling propaganda, apparently. Quote:
If I declared a sanctuary in your backyard, could I legally prevent you from going there? That's about as legitimate as Australia's claim to the southern ocean. Not sure how many different ways I can say this. Japan does not need our permission to hunt whales there because we do not own it. Quote:
Eating is not unnecessary. Freedom of choice is not unnecessary. What is unnecessary is you telling everyone else what is necessary. Quote:
I see. Perhaps you don't even understand the concept. Quote:
But not according to the whims of people who interfere for the sake of it. The original anti whaling movement was entirely justified. This is the complete opposite. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Aussie on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 9:20pm
Freediver, let's go back a tad. I am not allowed to harpoon a whale off the Sunshine Coast. Elsewhere, the Japs can for some alleged 'scientific' reason.
Have I got that right? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 9:33pm
i think FD is in a dive free falling... :(
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Dnarever on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 10:51pm freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 6:11pm:
There is a reason why there are virtually no whales of commercial value in the northern oceans, its called Japan they would be equally happy about the same result in the southern oceans they clearly have never had any idea about sustainability. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Chard on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 10:52pm freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 5:46pm:
Whales aren't the only animals in the world, you obtuse f*ckbucket. freediver wrote on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 5:46pm:
Minke whales are not the only type of whale hunted, you obtuse f*ckbucket. For example, Japan predominantly hunts three species of whale and the Minke is the only one that isn't on the endangered list. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 11:08pm
FD???
perhaps you've been holding your breath,underwater,...for too long??? Like I have tried right?? to point out that this 'issue' is sadly representative of the way humans 'care' for the Earth. !! I've tried.... THAT is what it means to many people.... abhorrent, greedy, gluttoness , contemptuous and F YU JO stuff... bring it on !! GOOD GRIEF..? ::) ::) You refuse to acknowledge my point?? you think pigs are like whales...?? Well YOU KNOW.. u r right... PIGS, DOGS, DOLPHINS ELEPHANTS TIGERS BEARS DOGONG TURTLE SHARK and ever onwards . .., deserve respect and humane treatment. If you're godstruck,..or not... you should understand it is part of your responsibility...to protect and nuture all you can. if I wasn't such a hypocrit.. I wouldn't eat meat at all... according to some on here. I have given it some thought ... believe it or not. What is our place in the order of life on earth? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 11:26pm
so anyway
in relation to food, meat eating specifically... and laugh in scorn if you like,.. but I choose to eat meat which is certified organically grown... not mass production pork, feedlot beef, batteryed hens, animals which have had at least the chance to live some sort of real life... stupid?? expensive?? yes $$ involved.. assauging guilt ?? no I dont think so... more .. a better approach to the need for protein , in as humane a way as possible. I don't think humans are vegetarians..we are omnivores,.. so .. we'll eat anything going... better we respect our Earth and fellow species.... AS BEST WE CAN. One reason I have not added to the gross overpopulation of human life on Earth. !! >:( :P |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Chard on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 12:52am
If God didn't want me to eat meat then He shouldn't have made animals so damn tasty.
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 1:03am
No No CHARD
Nothing to do with GOD. God is just an idea... not real in this world. Can't blame your blood lust on God... ::) |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Chard on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 5:06am Emma wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 1:03am:
Hey, if it's a good enough excuse for the Church then it's good enough for me. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 8:25am Quote:
Correct Aussie. Australia does have jurisdiction over waters that actually belong to Australia. Quote:
Did you know that the IWC is drawing up plans for the resumption of commercial whaling? It is you who has no idea at all about the sustainability side of it. Quote:
So what right do you have to tell the Japs which ones they can and cannot eat? Quote:
Got the numbers? I would like to see what you mean by 'predominantly'. Quote:
What I think is that pigs are more intelligent that whales, suffer far more than whales, and are eaten by hypocritical racist Australians who will have a go at the Japs without stopping to think about what they are saying. Quote:
I notice you did not include Japs in your list. Quote:
But you are, hey? At least you are admitting it. Quote:
I don't. Quote:
Like whales? Or did your thinking not go that far? Quote:
So you support the rights of the Japanese people to choose for themselves what to eat? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by mantra on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 9:17am
FD - why do you keep referring to those who are against whaling as racist? No-one cares what race the whalers are. The Sea Shepherd obviously hasn't got the resources to be in 20 places at once, but they try to stop the boats when the opportunity arises.
Norway and Iceland have had their run ins with them too. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by mantra on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 9:30am Quote:
It is not as cut and dried as that. Compromises had to be made by all parties. It is the only way the IWC can continue to regulate whaling for either "scientific" or commercial purposes. The rogue nations have been taking what they please and thumbing their noses at any authority. Better a compromise - than having these nations continue doing their own thing. They still have quotas. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 9:36am Quote:
Because I only ever see them criticise Japanese whalers. They usually go all silent when it comes to white people whaling. At least Red Baron is honest about being racist. It is kind of creepy seeing everyone else go on and on about the Japs while pretending it has nothing to do with race. It's like watching Nazis go on about the final solution while trying not to mention Jews. Quote:
But they do care, which is why Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd target the Japs but barely mention white people who hunt whales. Racist attacks on the Japs is where the money is. They know this and are happy to reinforce it while it brings in enourmous donations that they can waste by sinking expensive boats in the southern ocean (and pocketing a good part of it for themselves). Quote:
What did Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd learn from this? They learnt that whinging about white people whaling is a money loser. Quote:
Sounds pretty cut and dried to me. Of course the 'rogue nations' are going to thumb their nose at the IWC if the IWC goes from a whaling organisation interested in sustainability to a racist hippy organisation imposing their recently acquired cultural taboos on other people. It's as if you think a return to the science, sustainability and communal action is a bad thing and the one true course is sticking it to the Japs. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by mantra on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 9:51am freediver wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 9:36am:
It's got more to do with the fact that the Japanese are closer to us than the other nations and so local media focuses on them. It has nothing to do with race. Why wouldn't the Sea Shepherd try to exploit their cause for donations? More people appreciate them than those who don't. They are doing something and achieving it slowly. When was the last time the Norwegians or Icelanders headed over this way? Perhaps if they did - they would get the same attention. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by gizmo_2655 on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 10:01am freediver wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 9:36am:
Have you considered that it's because the Norwegians aren't sailing down to the Australian Antarctic Territory (which is recognised under the Antarctic Treaty System) to hunt whales in the Australian EEZ??? p.s Japan signed up to the ATS and to the same conventions on conservation at the same time that Australia did. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by bobbythebat1 on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 10:09am
Dear Freediver,
I am glad that Paul Watson is standing up to the Japs. There would be no whales left without him. Human beings are quickly hunting all ocean creatures to extinction. It takes only one good man to stand up for what is right to stop the slaughter. Hurray for Paul Watson. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 10:11am Quote:
It's the same all over the world. Even in the US they focus on the Japs. Whaling is barely mentioned in Europe of course because they would either have to acknowledge that white people are doing it or face their own glaring hypocrisy. Quote:
See bobby doesn't bother hiding his racism either. Quote:
That would be fine if the cause was not racism and they did not fuel racism. Quote:
They are wasting money, risking lives and achieving nothing. Quote:
Did that include Australia claiming the southern ocean? Or was it actually about Antarctica? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by bobbythebat1 on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 10:13am
FD,
Quote:
I am not racist - I just want to see the ocean life protected. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 10:14am Bobby. wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 10:13am:
...from the Japs. But obviously not from white people. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by bobbythebat1 on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 10:16am freediver wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 10:14am:
All countries & people who exploit the ocean life should be stopped & only Paul Watson has the guts to do it. Hurray for Paul Watson. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by gizmo_2655 on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 10:22am freediver wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 10:11am:
See bobby doesn't bother hiding his racism either. Quote:
That would be fine if the cause was not racism and they did not fuel racism. Quote:
They are wasting money, risking lives and achieving nothing. Quote:
Did that include Australia claiming the southern ocean? Or was it actually about Antarctica?[/quote] Every nation with Antarctic Territorial claims have control of some adjacent water ways..So yes it does involve economic control of part of the Southern Ocean, just as Japan has the right to say who can fish/drill/mine in their EECs |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 10:58am Quote:
Paul Watson only stands up to the Japs (if that is what you call sinking your own boats), because that is where all the money is. Quote:
LOL. What do you think 'adjacent' means? Have you seen the territory we supposedly 'own'? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by gizmo_2655 on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 11:12am freediver wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 10:58am:
LOL. What do you think 'adjacent' means? Have you seen the territory we supposedly 'own'?[/quote] Yes, I have..I even have a page open right now with a map that shows it. What about it? And on that point, why don't they simply do the whaling over near Syowa (Showa) Station?? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 11:27am
Can you please post the map that shows the extent of Australia's territory that is recognised under international law?
Quote:
They obviously prefer to catch whales there. Does it really matter what their reason is? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Ocean_Whale_Sanctuary While commercial whaling is prohibited in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary, Japan's Institute of Cetacean Research has continued to hunt whales inside the Sanctuary in accordance with a provision in the IWC charter permitting whaling for the purposes of scientific research. ... Japan, meanwhile, lodged a formal objection to the sanctuary with regard to minke whales, meaning that the terms of the sanctuary do not apply to its harvest of that species within the boundaries of the sanctuary. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Dnarever on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 11:46am freediver wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 11:27am:
You support this dishonesty? Nobody believes there is any relivant research involved in marketing whales. The question is why do they need to travel over 20,000K to a sanctuary if the various species are in reality plentiful as a few are saying? Why would they need to do this when a large supply of whales habitate the noth Pacific in times of plenty. It would seem to a be commercially unrealist option if the supply was as abundant as they themself are saying. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 12:09pm Quote:
Why not? It sounds more like something you desperately want to believe, and you deliberately avoid finding out what research they actually do. What is hard to believe is that scientists would pass up the opportunity to do research, given that it is the only reliable supply they have. But why let common sense get in the way of making up a good story? Quote:
That's where most of them are. Surely you don't want them targetting the more depleted populations? Quote:
So what did they actually say? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by gizmo_2655 on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 1:26pm freediver wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 11:27am:
And Sea Shepard's objection, that the Japanese whaling isn't scientific research but commercial, is a reasonably valid one. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Dnarever on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 2:07pm freediver wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 12:09pm:
That's where most of them are. Surely you don't want them targetting the more depleted populations? Quote:
So what did they actually say?[/quote] That's where most of them are. Surely you don't want them targetting the more depleted populations? That is where most of them are because of the fishing of the Japaneese and others in the north pacific. The result of them continuing with no real resistance will be the same story in the southern oceans. Surely you understand the reason that most of them are in the south now - it wasn't always like that was it? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 2:27pm Quote:
Except that it is a false dichotomy. Quote:
No it won't. You are completely ignoring the history of this. It was the whaling nations, including Japan, that formed the IWC and put a stop to the overharvesting. This is pure hippy propaganda and has no connection at all to reality. And whales are not fish. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by bobbythebat1 on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 3:03pm
Bobby
Quote:
Freediver Quote:
Listen Freediver - we won the war & now they think they can rape our fishing grounds. It's not fair. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Dnarever on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 3:09pm freediver wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 2:27pm:
No it won't. You are completely ignoring the history of this. It was the whaling nations, including Japan, that formed the IWC and put a stop to the overharvesting. This is pure hippy propaganda and has no connection at all to reality. And whales are not fish.[/quote] It was the whaling nations, including Japan, that formed the IWC and put a stop to the overharvesting You are completely ignoring the history of this. Japan opposed and refused to comply with bans at every step of the process till they were allowed to use a loop hole enabling them to ignore the bans and restrictions. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 3:17pm Quote:
I don't really care what you think is fair. It is certainly not what any unbiased person would think was fair. It is however, perfectly legal. And the ocean does not belong to you. Quote:
They were right to be wary of the process, because it was rapidly taken over by extremists and ideological zealots like yourself. However they have definitely complied with the spirit of the IWC bans - which was to end unsustainable whaling and give stocks a chance to recover. To pretend that their current whaling efforts are anything at all like the pre-IWC whaling is nothing short of deceptive. Same with the legality of it - they are complying with all the IWC conditions and have not walked away from the IWC, which is testimony to their tolerance in the face of mind numbing hypocrisy from the 'people who won the war'. This of course answers your questions about why they head so far south for their meagre takings - in the spirit of sustainability. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by bobbythebat1 on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 3:46pm
FD
Quote:
The ocean belongs to all of us not the just the Japanese fishermen. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 8:21pm
exactly Bobby...
I just don't get why FD is standing up for these whaling practices, whilst saying we don't care about the Norwgians take.. or ?? Not the case FD. I don't like that Norway wants to continue iconoclastic slaughter of whales in their 'area'. Norway... is on the other side of the world... from us.. their focus is Arctic... and I bet you, (w/o actually knowing) that the Norwegian et al 'take' couldn't compare to the deaths of whales in the Southern ocean. Further, Greenpeace Europe DOES protest these practices. OH now you'll say ... there are lots more japanese people than norwegian,, so they get to take more... ::) WELL THAT WOULD BE your argument. if whaling by Japan has anything to do with feeding their people../... BUT this WHOLE DEBATE isn't about FOOD... is it ? Hmm? Its about Japanese scientific research... right???? .... so please advise ... any info you may have concerning this scientific project... and what is its objective?? and any records of results to date.??? 'cos I've never heard a skerrick ....?? You are so for it... you must know why??? what... etc Please enlighten us... |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Dnarever on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 8:57pm freediver wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 3:17pm:
They were right to be wary of the process, because it was rapidly taken over by extremists and ideological zealots like yourself. However they have definitely complied with the spirit of the IWC bans - which was to end unsustainable whaling and give stocks a chance to recover. To pretend that their current whaling efforts are anything at all like the pre-IWC whaling is nothing short of deceptive. Same with the legality of it - they are complying with all the IWC conditions and have not walked away from the IWC, which is testimony to their tolerance in the face of mind numbing hypocrisy from the 'people who won the war'. This of course answers your questions about why they head so far south for their meagre takings - in the spirit of sustainability.[/quote] it was rapidly taken over by extremists and ideological zealots like yourself. I have never had any control over the process? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by bobbythebat1 on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 9:09pm Emma wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 8:21pm:
Hi Emma, Just about everyone but Freediver agrees. That's why we need a poll. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by bobbythebat1 on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 9:10pm
Added a poll.
http://www.coolantarctica.com/gallery/whales_whaling/0045.htm Quote:
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Dnarever on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 9:13pm Bobby. wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 9:09pm:
By far the research is about proving that there are enough whales to eat. Every conclusion they come to say that there are more than enough but unfortunatly someone keeps eating the research. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 24th, 2013 at 8:36am Quote:
Google is your friend Emma. Quote:
Does that mean it is not there, or is it because you have never bothered looking and the people you listen to are not the sort to acknowledge reality? Quote:
I did not claim otherwise. However it is undeniable that the IWC was originally by whalers, for whalers, and has now being taken over by people with an ideological opposition to whaling. The only thing really holding them back is that Japan and other whaling nations could simply walk away completely. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by bobbythebat1 on Feb 24th, 2013 at 9:24am
The ocean belongs to all of us not the just Japanese fishermen.
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 24th, 2013 at 4:33pm
So what does that mean bobby? That you get to tell the Japs what they are allowed to eat?
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by bobbythebat1 on Feb 24th, 2013 at 5:28pm freediver wrote on Feb 24th, 2013 at 4:33pm:
FD, They can eat whatever they like as long as they are not raping the world's oceans. There could be less than a million whales left in the world - some species are down in only the 1000's in numbers - endangered species. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 24th, 2013 at 5:36pm Bobby. wrote on Feb 24th, 2013 at 5:28pm:
So you support their harvest of Minke whales in the southern ocean? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by bobbythebat1 on Feb 24th, 2013 at 5:58pm
Hi FD,
No - the populations are decreasing. http://iwc.int/estimate Why can't people just leave the whales alone? Haven't they got a right to live just like you or me? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 24th, 2013 at 6:06pm
There are two things you do not appear to understand here bobby. The first is how to read statistics. The second is how the concept of rights applies to a predator-prey relationship.
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 25th, 2013 at 12:04am freediver wrote on Feb 24th, 2013 at 8:36am:
Does that mean it is not there, or is it because you have never bothered looking and the people you listen to are not the sort to acknowledge reality? .........it is undeniable that the IWC was originally by whalers, for whalers, and has now being taken over by people with an ideological opposition to whaling. The only thing really holding them back is that Japan and other whaling nations could simply walk away completely.[/quote] FD the people I talk to are conservationists... not consumers. WHOLE DIFFERENT MINDSET. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by bobbythebat1 on Feb 25th, 2013 at 5:54am freediver wrote on Feb 24th, 2013 at 6:06pm:
The statistics show a decrease don't they? What about the cruelty to the whales? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 25th, 2013 at 6:37am
what I am saying... and others also...
is there IS NO predator/prey relationship. !! comprende?? There should NOT be this predation occurring.. you thinks PIGs, are smart... ?? yes I know they are... ... but whales are smarter... pigs are bred for slaughter... whales are... FREE... don't you see it??? Call it hypocritical??? hey .. I do my best... Society is fuked... !!! |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 25th, 2013 at 6:59pm Quote:
Hippy is the correct term Emma. I think you will find that most genuine conservationists put sustainability first, before getting wound up about protecting one type of animal above all others regardless of the consequences. Quote:
Check the confidence intervals. There is so much uncertainty in the numbers that it is entirely plausible that there was an increase in numbers over that time. You also need to put those numbers into perspective by comparing with the catch by the Japanese, which would clearly demonstrate that whale hunting has very little impact on numbers. In fact it would demonstrate that if anything, whale numbers are so high that many are still starving to death and dying of other natural causes. Quote:
What about the cruelty to pigs? Quote:
Isn't that what you call it when one animal eats another animal? Quote:
Emma this would be a lot easier if you got your normative and objective statements sorted out before posting. Quote:
Not according to the people who take that sort of thing seriously. At least, not if you are talking about the whales that are actually hunted by the Japs. Or are you one of those hippies who thinks we should not hunt Minke whales because of dolphins? Quote:
I see hypocrisy and a rather convenient compartmentalising of your values. Am I missing anything? Quote:
That is not a good excuse for hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is the cause, not the solution. If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. At least Mantra was willing to admit she wants to ban everything except lentils and carrots. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 25th, 2013 at 10:39pm
what you are really saying is ...all other life on this planet belongs to humans,, and so we can do as we choose,, because we are the deadliest predator, and omnivorous to boot... so everything is fair game.
I don't agree... simple as that... we need to change FD, if we want to remain pre-eminent, and one of those changes should be greater respect for other living creatures. Now I eat meat OK ..??? I just cooked myself the best aged Angus Porterhouse, ever.. rare to med rare.. it was over an inch thick, gorgeous rich fat strip oozing animal fat browned and crispy with salt... it was so succulent ,... I revelled in it. I'll be roasting some pork for dinner , maybe tomorrow night.. and I don't feel ALL that guilty about it... just a bit... because this is hard to express actually... altho I think human's are the most dominant, ie arguably the most intelligent mammal on the Earth... I'm not so sure about sea creatures ... and WE MUST START somewhere ... to commit to protecting wilderness.... not eat it up in a mass of gluttony... and WE are just animals as well... mammalian, driven to self-perpetuation, surviving... only now it is at DIRE EXPENSE .. to our only home... Isn't it time to show we really are intelligent?? I mean ... we can't just snap our fingers and change our thinking... we must start somewhere... so all wilderness protection is the most worthy activity a human can undertake NOW...today... not feeding our ravening masses of vile creatures... That is my opinion.... you are welcome to yours... 'cept it ain't helping... its neo-lithic thinking. , |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Swagman on Feb 25th, 2013 at 10:45pm Emma wrote on Feb 25th, 2013 at 10:39pm:
Yes, those Japs should just farm the whales and then they can eat as many as they like? :D ....best aged mobydick steaks....... |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 25th, 2013 at 11:16pm
ah but swaggie... they don't eat it... that 'tradition' ..apart from some isolated fishing villages... only came to vogue thru WW2... it has no cultural value...
in Japanese society. so what the f is evryone trying to say let 'm kill the whales... its ethically bankrupt... maybe you get to do something no-one else likes,... if they can...? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 26th, 2013 at 6:34pm Quote:
You make it sound like it needs justification. It is a simple statement of fact. Quote:
Why not start with the worst offenders? Minke whales are pretty far down the list of what needs protecting, whatever measure you choose to use. Imagine if the Indians decided that angus porterhouse is sacred and we must eat whale instead and started trying to kill our cattle farmers. This is the sort of absurdity you are encouraging. Quote:
Sure, I would encourage you to. Quote:
Oh dear, you are making excuses already. Quote:
Why is that? Should we try to live in harmony with nature rather than trying to create an even greater separation from it? Quote:
They don't need your permission Emma. The ethical bankruptcy is squarely with those racists who try to tell others what to eat for no good reason other than "we have to start somewhere" (ie we have to start with the Japs, not with ourselves). |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Amadd on Feb 26th, 2013 at 6:38pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20Jcrk6jGfo
I just love that one ;D |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 26th, 2013 at 8:28pm freediver wrote on Feb 26th, 2013 at 6:34pm:
You are seriously weird.. IF ANY OTHER NATION TRIED IT ON, i'd feel exactly the same..!! Get that?? Ourselves have long since STOPPED KILLING WHALES.. !!! We can't do it all over again... fool. ::) ::) OOhhh maybe you're the one who hates over use of emoticons.... ;D :D :D :D 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) goodo.. :) Imagine if the Indians decided that angus porterhouse is sacred and we must eat whale instead and started trying to kill our cattle farmers. This is the sort of absurdity you are encouraging. hahhahahahahahaahhahaaaaa -you are hilarious -- do you write speeches for the LNP??? ;D ;D What an absurd thing to say... as if it has any characteristic of a VALID COMPARISON... Joke ;D ;D ;D ;D 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) took about spinning crap :o ;D :D :D :D |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 26th, 2013 at 9:08pm Quote:
So if Australians dared to eat cow and the Indians demanded we stop because cows are sacred, you would join up with the Indians and start trying to kill Australian farmers? Quote:
The Indians stopped killing cows much longer ago. Quote:
Can you explain why your ideological opposition to eating whale is any different to people who oppose eating cow or pig or dog, other than the fact that you feel justified in trying to kill people who disagree with you? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 26th, 2013 at 9:30pm
Can you explain why your ideological opposition to eating whale is any different to people who oppose eating cow or pig or dog, other than the fact that you feel justified in trying to kill people who disagree with you?
UMMM .. patience pls... you start from the wrong premise altogether. You have taken it subtly off-topic.... because this is not about who should eat what. !!! In no way, shape or form, am I approaching this topic from your direction. ITS NOT ABOUT EATING WHALES... OR NOT... OR... OK ( I'll stop shouting now) COWS OR PIGS OR CHICKENS OR FISH OR SHARKS OR SHEEP.... That is your take on it./. Its about what this whole saga really represents... globally... about how we care for the Earth we claim dominance over Its about THAT,, DOH..!! You aren't stupid, I know that,... MY FOCUS isn't yours.... It represents people who don't think your way... its simply a clear message ... we have to stop being garbage creating destroyers and thats a BIG change... so the Sea Shepherd shows the way,,, undeniably.. . ITS about more than Killing whales... SS are trying to prevent unnecessary slaughter of whales... do you not get it??? You want to make it about eating animals... you appear to have a particular affinity for PIGS... Hey?? good for you.. but care not so much for fish... or whales or dolphins I suspect.. But its not about EATING and RACIAL HATRED or whatever else your mind conjures... its like I said.... and furthermore , as I said earlier, .. it could be Canada poaching... which is essentially what the Japanese are doing... in breach of so much international law... or Indonesia..,. my opinion remains... they are the ones breaking the Law... and SEA SHEPHERD appears to be the only response to this poaching in an internationally - agreed Wilderness Sanctuary. THE POACHER'S actions are simply wrong.. in all senses of the word. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 26th, 2013 at 10:01pm Quote:
I think you will find that the people who want to eat whales consider it to be about whether they are allowed to eat whales. It is kind of absurd to deny someone such a basic human right like choosing what to eat and then try to tell them that it's not really about denying them this right. It isn't really about 'caring for the earth' either. Basically, if we 'approach the issue' your way, you spend the whole time trying to sweep your hypocrisy under the carpet. Quote:
Sure. It is not necessary for you to eat porterhouse either. This is the hypocrisy you must sweep under the carpet in order to approach the problem your way. It turns into nothing more than demanding the Japs make unnecessary sacrifices when you are unwilling to make far more important sacrifices, and all you can do to justify it is wave your arms in the air and waffle on vaguely about caring for the earth. Quote:
Yes I like bacon too. I'm just not a hypocrite about it. Quote:
I don't quite follow your logic here. Can you explain how telling the Japs what they are and are not allowed to eat has nothing to do with food or racism? Quote:
Except of course that the Japs are not actually breaking the law. See, you are trying to make it about something else now - the law - but you are wrong on that you, as we have discussed already. You just keep changing the topic and making it about something else without following anything through to some sort of conclusion. You just start on a different approach, from the beginning, and make people point out the same stupid mistakes you are making over and over again. Quote:
No. You are wrong, on every single point you make. You are just incapable of sticking to any one topic long enough to understand. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 26th, 2013 at 10:23pm
poor effort there FD
I'm not talking about what people eat... Sea Shepherd is doing what should be done... by all the govts involved. Japan can find whales elsewhere, surely?? They don't all live in Sanctuary's.. ::) why MUST they cause this ruckus, in defiance of International Agreements.?? It isn't about shifting the ground.... you want to talk about whales as food... you are ignoring the topic, and going about people's right to eat Whatever they want... It is NOT pertinent.!! It's about protecting whales from UNNECESSARY slaughter in an Internationally agreed Antarctic wilderness 'PROTECTED zone.. why is that so difficult for you to understand.?? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 26th, 2013 at 10:28pm
jeez this is fun.. :)
loook ::) people can eat monkey's brains if they think they must... as long as they don't POACH protected areas/... is that any help"??? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Mr Conservative on Feb 27th, 2013 at 1:10pm
International waters, the Japs should just send down a naval vessel and sink Sea Shepherds ships. The bonus effect would be to liven up Whale Wars, the ratings would go through the roof when dirty hippies get forced to take a bath.
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Feb 27th, 2013 at 6:52pm
Emma and batty, I hope you are taking notice of the poll batty created (to prove his own point, apparently). You obviously aren't convincing anyone with your hollow arguments and furious arm waving.
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You are confused Emma. People eat whales. You are talking about whales. Whether you like it or not, that is the topic. Quote:
Would you support that? Quote:
It is nice of you to concede that they are not actually breaking any laws. Now, if you also concede that Japan did not actually agree to those agreements, would it not be fair to say that it is the people who are attempting to impose those agreements on Japan that are actually 'causing the ruckus'? Can you explain why ruckus now appears to be your main criticism of the Japs? Is that all that is left - kicking up a ruckus about Japan causing the ruckus you are kicking up? Quote:
Why not? Quote:
Who is actually party to these agreements? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 27th, 2013 at 11:11pm
The agreements Aus is seeking decision on in the IJC are signed by heaps ... ;D
No seriously.. seems the US have just declared Sea Shepherd to be PIRATES, and in breach of 'other' international agreements.... PIRATES FFS.. ::) ::). !!! The Australian government and those who are in sympathy ..await the decision ..... |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Feb 27th, 2013 at 11:14pm
the decision of the IJC???? ICJ ?
the international commission for Justice. then who is right and who is wrong, will still be ignored no doubt, even if the Whalers are told to go, do you really think they would??? I doubt it... |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Mar 1st, 2013 at 9:35pm Quote:
As in, not signed by Japan? Signed perhaps by the countries who granted themselves huge swathes of open ocean? Quote:
They are in breach of international law. Quote:
Self declared. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Mar 24th, 2013 at 12:18pm wrote on Mar 22nd, 2013 at 6:41am:
Hypocrites. Sea Shepherd openly admit to being pirates and sinking ships. Paul Watson is a wanted man in many European countries. Trying to 'interrupt' a delicate refueling operating in a pristine wilderness area is about as stupid as it gets. Sea Shepherd will have a hard enough time trying not to implicate themselves. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Mar 25th, 2013 at 1:08am
talk about deep division of opinion...
to some of us... they are heroes to others.. they 're pirates. will humans EVER reach peace? |
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Title: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by imcrookonit on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 9:11am
Japanese whalers end hunt, says Sea Shepherd
Date March 3, 2013 JAPANESE whalers appear to have abandoned their Antarctic hunt, with Sea Shepherd activists saying they are tracking the fleet as it steams away from the Southern Ocean. :) After a series of heavy collisions between the whaling vessels and the Sea Shepherd fleet, the factory ship Nisshin Maru and its harpoon ships were on Saturday headed away from the Australian Antarctic Territory into the Indian Ocean. ''Things are looking good for the end of whaling for this season,'' said Sea Shepherd captain Paul Watson. ''We came, we intervened, we stood fast, we won.'' :) The Japanese government was yet to comment, but it appeared that the whalers had quit the southern hunting grounds after a shorter-than-usual season, having taken no more than 75 whales by Sea Shepherd's estimation, far fewer than previous seasons. Japan's consul-general in Melbourne, Hidenobu Sobashima, said his government did not discuss the movements of the fleet. This week the activists' vessels were battered while blockading attempts by Nisshin Maru to refuel from the tanker Sun Laurel in ice-strewn seas off Australian waters. Fresh doubts also emerged over the role of the Japanese government in whaling hunts, with the sudden appearance of a big Japanese military icebreaker in the midst of the conflict. Mr Watson claims a helicopter from the icebreaker Shirase appeared to transfer Japan Coast Guard security officers to the whaling fleet's refuelling tanker. At the height of the sea clashes, flash-bang grenades were thrown from the factory ship by uniformed Japan Coast Guard officers, Sea Shepherd says. Federal Environment Minister Tony Burke said he was told by Japan: ''Neither the Shirase nor its helicopters have provided any support to whaling vessels or the refuelling vessel, Sun Laurel.'' With the Shirase's next port of call in Sydney, Mr Watson suggested: ''Maybe Mr Burke should ask the police to examine their GPS record the next time they dock.'' Mr Burke said there was no joy in the whalers heading home when they had an intention of returning. ''Hopefully this is the last, or nearly the last occasion where they are able to behave in this way, before the International Court of Justice is able to give its ruling,'' Mr Burke said. The ICJ is due to hear this year Australia argue that the scientific whaling program is a sham and a breach of international law. ;) Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/japanese-whalers-end-hunt-says-sea-shepherd-20130302-2fdcz.html#ixzz2MQWHo3R2 |
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Title: Re: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by imcrookonit on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 9:14am
Once again, thank you Captain Watson, and the good people of the sea shephard. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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Title: Re: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by bobbythebat1 on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 9:17am wrote on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 9:14am:
Here here Crook - we won. :) |
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Title: Re: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by Andrei.Hicks on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 9:22am
Yet another whaling thread......
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Title: Re: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by Andrei.Hicks on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 9:24am
Watson. Fugitive from the law who cannot port anywhere in the EU and has his passport confiscated.
A man called "reckless" by Greenpeace! His time will come. |
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Title: Re: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by imcrookonit on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 9:24am
Dont worry about it, the whales like it. ;D
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Title: Re: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by red baron on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 9:25am
The Sea Shepherd and Bob Baker did an heroic job in the Antarctic. A job that should have been carried out by Australia's Navy.
Unfortunately Gillard has a serious case of 'lack of balls' when it comes to illegal whaling in Australian waters in the Antarctic. Thanks to the heroes on the Sea Shepherd, they had a lousy catch. I hope they choke on their freaking whale meat in their sushi bars in downtown Tokyo. |
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Title: Re: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by imcrookonit on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 9:28am
Well said red baron, yes when will the Japanese ever learn. >:(
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Title: Re: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by bobbythebat1 on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 10:05am red baron wrote on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 9:25am:
Hear hear Baron. |
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Title: Re: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by freediver on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 10:27am
I hope you lot can see where this is heading. The law is firmly on Japan's side and everyone seems to recognise this except a few sycophantic Australian politicians who can't admit their own impotence. The Japanese coast guard has now gotten involved in violent conflict to defend them. The Sea Shepherd idiots were ramming ships during refueling in the southern ocean, which is about the dumbest thing they could possibly do, especially if they claim to be environmentalists. One Sea Shepherd boat has already been sunk in recent years, and the fault was entirely the captain's. Even Greenpeace can't stomach Sea Shepherd's antics. Maybe next year they will sink the entire Sea Shepherd fleet and put all of them in a Japanese jail, and no-one is going to come to their rescue.
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Title: Re: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by bobbythebat1 on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 10:32am freediver wrote on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 10:27am:
Freediver, Paul Watson & his brave crew are ready to die for their beliefs. |
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Title: Re: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by freediver on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 10:34am
Don't worry bobby, the Japs are far cleverer than that. They are pulling a PR victory from the jaws of inevitable defeat, thanks to idiots like Watson.
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Title: Re: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by bobbythebat1 on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 10:36am freediver wrote on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 10:34am:
If the Japs sink Paul Watson & his brave crew they would die in only 2 minutes in the cold antarctic waters. They would be martyrs for the cause. |
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Title: Re: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by freediver on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 10:42am
They have already sunk one of Sea Shepherd's boats. No-one died, though I doubt the it would be the same if the situation were reversed. The world did not even bat an eyelid. That's what happens when criminal play pirates and ram ships. Do you really think everyone will rally behind Sea Shepherd if someone dies? They won't. They will call for an end to Sea Shepherds criminal acts and demand Australia's politicians stop blowing smoke up their arse and put them in jail instead. It is mind boggling how far Australia has inserted it's head up its arse on this issue while pretending to take the moral high ground. The rest of the world just looks on with curiosity at how far our hypocrisy can go.
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Title: Re: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by bobbythebat1 on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 10:45am
FD,
Quote:
I will - you'll never hear the end of it on Ozpolitics. |
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Title: Re: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by imcrookonit on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 10:54am
Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Broadcast: 26/02/2013 Reporter: Leigh Sales . Transcript LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER: Tensions between Japanese whalers and anti-whaling protestors are rising in the Southern Ocean. The two groups have clashed again, with both sides claiming their ships were rammed. The vessel belonging to environmental activist group Sea Shepherd tried to prevent a whaling ship from refuelling. In a moment we'll hear from former Greens leader and now Sea Shepherd director, Bob Brown. But first, let's have a look at the footage shot by the anti-whaling group. On left is the whaling ship, the Nisshin Maru; in the middle is Sea Shepherd vessel, the Bob Barker, and on the right is the Japanese refuelling ship. OK, that was the video from Sea Shepherd, but now have a look at the same incident seen from on board the whaling ship, the Nisshin Maru. And just before we came on air I spoke to Sea Shepherd director Bob Brown in Perth. :) Bob Brown, looking at the video, it doesn't appear to be so much a case of the Japanese boat deliberately ramming; it's more that the Sea Shepherd is putting itself in a position where it can't avoid being rammed. Why is Sea Shepherd engaging in this dangerous behaviour? BOB BROWN, DIRECTOR, SEA SHEPHERD: Because both those Japanese ships are there illegally. One's breaching international law as a whaling factory ship in a global whale sanctuary; the other is a heavy oil-carrying ship which is 67 degrees south when it's not legal for such a ship to be more than 60 degrees south. And you can see the ice in the background which presents a danger. This is a wildlife-rich area, big colonies of penguins, seals as well as whales in the vicinity and an oil spill there would be massively dangerous. And you've seen that stun grenade go off over their own oil tanker. It's like throwing a match at a service station. Completely irresponsible. LEIGH SALES: But none of this would be happening if Sea Shepherd weren't there. Sea Shepherd is upset about the danger to whales' lives, but Sea Shepherd's behaviour's endangering human lives, their own and those on the people on the Japanese boat. Surely that deserves condemnation, not encouragement. BOB BROWN: No, not at all. That's like saying that the police endanger themselves by going in to uphold the law. The Japanese are there illegally. Sea Shepherd's there to uphold the Australian law - the Federal Court has ruled that the Japanese whaling is illegal - and international law; it is an international whale sanctuary. So it's Sea Shepherd that's upholding the law and nonviolent against this violent, illegal and very dangerous operation by the Japanese whaling fleet. ;) |
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Title: Re: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by freediver on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 10:54am Bobby. wrote on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 10:45am:
Sea Shepherd supporters are a tiny minority. Even Greenpeace opposes them. Obviously the people who already support them will probably continue to do so. Sea Shepherd counts on this. It is how they get paid enough to sink fancy boats on a regular basis. Everyone else will turn against them. Quote:
Does anyone else agree that the best way to handle this potential ecological catastrophe is to try to ram the ship in the middle of a refueling operation? Why is it so hard for people to admit what idiots Sea Shepherd are? Quote:
Bob would have a point if it was actually Australian waters. It is not. |
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Title: Re: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by imcrookonit on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 10:56am
Thank you Mr Bob Brown, well said. :)
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Title: Re: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by Andrei.Hicks on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 12:45pm
Paul Watson, Some Facts.
Paul Watson is the founder of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society and an early member of Greenpeace. Over the last few years, Paul has become extremely critical of Greenpeace in the press and at his website. The information below is provided as a service to our supporters to get a few facts out on the table about Paul's history with Greenpeace and the nature of our disagreements. Paul Watson became active with Greenpeace in 1971 as a member of our second expedition against nuclear weapons testing in Amchitka, and went on to participate in actions against whaling and the killing of harp seals. He was an influential early member but not, as he sometimes claims, a founder. He was expelled from the leadership of Greenpeace in 1977 by a vote of 11 to one (only Watson himself voted against it). Watson founded his own group, Sea Shepherd, in 1977. - in 1986, Sea Shepherd carried out an action against the Icelandic whaling station in Hvalfjoerdur and sank two Icelandic whaling vessels in Reykjavik harbour by opening their sea valves. - in December 1992, Sea Shepherd sank the vessel Nybroena in port. - Sea Shepherd claimed to have sank the Taiwanese drift net ship Jiang Hai in port in Taiwan and to have rammed and disabled four other Asian drift net ships. - a Canadian court ordered Watson and his former ship, the Cleveland Armory, to pay a total of US$ 35,000 for ramming a Cuban fishing vessel off the coast of Newfoundland in June 1993. - in January 1994 the group severely damaged the whaling ship Senet in the Norwegian port of Gressvik. In a 2008 article in the New Yorker, Watson claims that Sea Shepherd has sunk ten ships since its founding, but the author of the article notes, with some skepticism, that she was unable to verify that number. Paul Watson's and Sea Shepherd's actions have sometimes been wrongly attributed to Greenpeace, often in an attempt by others to damage Greenpeace's reputation for non-violence. Some anti-environmentalists try to use the fact that an extreme minority in the environmental movement resorts to force and sabotage to brand the movement as a whole as "terrorist." One such attempt has been specifically condemned by a Norwegian court. Paul Watson has made many public requests for Greenpeace to reveal the location of the whaling fleet or otherwise cooperate with Sea Shepherd in the Southern Ocean when the ships of both organisations have been there simultaneously. We passionately want to stop whaling, and will do so peacefully. That's why we won't help Sea Shepherd. Greenpeace is committed to non-violence and we'll never, ever, change that, not for anything. If we helped Sea Shepherd to find the whaling fleet we'd be responsible for anything they did having got that information, and history shows that they've used violence in the past, in the most dangerous seas on Earth. For us, non-violence is a non-negotiable, precious principle. Greenpeace will continue to act to defend the whales, but will never attack or endanger the whalers. We differ with Paul Watson on what constitutes violence. He states that nobody has ever been harmed by a Sea Shepherd action. But the test of non-violence is the nature of your action, not whether harm results or not. There are many acts of violence -- for example, holding a gun to someone's head -- which result in no harm. That doesn't change their nature. We believe that throwing butryic acid at the whalers, dropping cables to foul their props, and threatening to ram them in the freezing waters of the Antarctic constitutes violence because of the potential consequences. The fact that the consequences have not been realised is irrelevant. In addition to being morally wrong, we believe the use of violence in protection of whales to be a tactical error. If there's one way to harden Japanese public opinion and ensure whaling continues, it's to use violent tactics against their fleet. It's wrong because it puts human lives at risk, and it's wrong because it makes the whalers stronger in Japan. We work with many other groups whose methods differ from ours, and we know the power of cooperation among groups with a common objective but diverse ways of working. We have for decades had productive working relationships with the Worldwide Fund for Nature, Friends of the Earth, International Fund for Animal Welfare, Sierra Club, Environmental Investigative Agency, and a host of other groups dedicated to whale conservation. We would only be willing to cooperate with Sea Shepherd under the condition that it would not facilitate endangering human life. Disabling a ship at sea in the Antarctic, regardless of how much one may object to its activities, is not only a callous act of disregard for human life, it's courting an environmental disaster in one of the most fragile environments in the world. Such tactics are not only dangerous to the whalers, they are dangerous to the cause of stopping Japanese whaling. Our political analysis is unequivocal: if Japanese whaling is to be stopped, it will be stopped by a domestic decision within the Japanese government to do so. That's why we have invested heavily in a Greenpeace office in Japan and efforts to speak directly to the Japanese public -- 70 percent of whom are unaware that whaling takes place. |
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Title: Re: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by Andrei.Hicks on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 12:48pm
We've got fairly thick skins here at Greenpeace. When you challenge powerful forces, you need to be ready to put up with accusations of ulterior motives and hidden agendas. What's unfortunate is when we have to spend time countering friendly fire -- attacks by an organisation that shares the same goals as we do. We don't mind robust disagreements, but we do object to falsehoods.
Paul Watson is welcome to express his opinions about Greenpeace - as a radical environmental organisation, we have a wide spectrum of detractors, and we welcome fair criticism. But, we expect fair debate to be based in fact, not falsehoods. GREENPEACE. http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/about/history/paul-watson/ |
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Title: Re: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by freediver on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 4:30pm
Sea Shepherd's strategic and PR errors are obvious to just about everyone. The only rational explanation I can think of is that they put themselves and their fundraising first, ahead of whatever agenda they claim to be supporting. They certainly get lots of money thrown at them, and our idiot politicians are not exactly helping when they mislead people into thinking Sea Shepherd has the law or the moral high ground on it's side.
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Title: Re: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by Mr Conservative on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 7:43pm Bobby. wrote on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 10:32am:
I've watched whale wars, it's a hoot watching incompetent, dirty and smelly vegan hippies f*ck up again and again. One thing I would not call them is brave and they are certainly not willing to die. Always bravado in the first few episodes and then the cast start talking about ' how they did not sign on to die '. South Park proved males turn into pussies if they don't eat meat. That said I can't understand the last two years of the Japs wussing out, they are well within their right to sink them. |
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Title: Re: Japanese Whalers End Hunt Say Sea Shephard. Post by freediver on Mar 3rd, 2013 at 7:47pm
They have sunk one Sea Shepherd boat already. Though that was probably unavoidable. My guess is they have their eyes on the bigger picture, which is really a global PR war in which Sea Shepherd is their greatest ally.
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Apr 6th, 2013 at 6:54pm
The last 23 Posts were moved here from General Board by freediver.
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Title: Well Done Sea Shepherd - Keep Up The Good Work. Post by imcrookonit on Apr 6th, 2013 at 5:28am
Japan rues low whale haul
Date April 6, 2013 Japan's whalers are returning to port with their lowest Antarctic catch, 103 minke whales, after a shortened season marked by heavy clashes with conservation group Sea Shepherd. :) The tally, less than half of last year, was disclosed in Tokyo by Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries Minister Yoshimasa Hayashi, who blamed it on ''unforgivable sabotage'' by the activists. The whaling fleet arrived in waters south of Australia later than usual, and was pursued by Sea Shepherd south-west of Perth where the conflict climaxed with a refuelling blockade involving multiple ship collisions. The fleet left in early March, but is believed to have returned briefly after the activists' ships, short on fuel, dropped the pursuit. Japan has been ''research whaling'' since 1987, facing dwindling catches under Sea Shepherd harassment, and declining interest in whale meat among Japanese consumers. :) On its 48-day hunt off the Australian Antarctic Territory this summer, the whalers spent 21 days avoiding Sea Shepherd, The Institute of Cetacean Research said, according to AFP. Sea Shepherd Australia director Jeff Hansen said this year's campaign would go down as the group's most successful. ''I can't think of more ecological terrorism than going into a protected whale sanctuary, hunting endangered whales, and requiring a fuel tanker to go south into ice strewn waters with all the potential environmental harm involved in that,'' he said. Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/japan-rues-low-whale-haul-20130405-2hcao.html#ixzz2PcPuRnNz |
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Title: Re: Well Done Sea Shepherd - Keep Up The Good Work. Post by red baron on Apr 6th, 2013 at 7:52am
The Sea Shepherd group shouldn't worry too much, all eyes in Japan are now cast on North Korea.
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Title: Re: Well Done Sea Shepherd - Keep Up The Good Work. Post by bobbythebat1 on Apr 6th, 2013 at 10:02am
Paul Watson has done well.
He is a hero. |
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Title: Re: Well Done Sea Shepherd - Keep Up The Good Work. Post by thelastnail on Apr 6th, 2013 at 10:13am Bobby. wrote on Apr 6th, 2013 at 10:02am:
he's done what the labor party could never do and at virtually zero cost to the tax payer ;) this is just another nail in labors coffin and Tony Bourke can f.ckoff with his empty rhetoric on fighting it out in the international court bullshit !! |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Apr 6th, 2013 at 6:55pm
The last 4 Posts were moved here from General Board by freediver.
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Title: Re: Well Done Sea Shepherd - Keep Up The Good Work. Post by freediver on Apr 6th, 2013 at 6:58pm Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 6th, 2013 at 10:13am:
I agree. There is not much point taking them to court, given that they are not breaking any real laws. Sea Shepherd obviously believes that when the law is not on your side, your only option is to play pirates and try to interrupt a refueling operation in the middle of a pristine wilderness area. (Then come home crying when your gay boat gets sunk.) |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Apr 7th, 2013 at 2:03am
err I find it bizarre -o-mundo
that Hicks is quoting Greenpeace. ::) :o Do you seriously think we'd believe YOU are a member of Greenpeace.?? |
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Title: Australia Blamed For Helping Whale Protest. Post by imcrookonit on Apr 9th, 2013 at 10:01am
Australia blamed for helping whale protest
Date April 9, 2013 Japan has rounded on Australia and promised to step up a legal attack on hardline conservationists as it rallies behind its whalers. :-? The whalers' managing government agency, the Institute of Cetacean Research, says the federal government shows a willingness to tolerate sabotage by providing a safe haven to Sea Shepherd activists. ::) In pursuit of the group, the institute says it will mount a case for contempt in the US, claiming ''vicious, inhumane and extremely dangerous'' abuse of a court order not to interfere with the whaling fleet in the Antarctic. The whaling factory ship Nisshin Maru and two of its harpoon vessels returned to port in Shimonoseki on Sunday to a brass band fanfare, speeches, and whale food giveaways. Bowls of whale soup were handed around, and canned whale meat was on sale by the dock as the crews gathered in a large tent for official speeches. The hull of Nisshin Maru had dents after clashes with Sea Shepherd vessels in a February refuelling blockade near Australia's Davis station, off the Antarctic coast. :) Under pressure in a shortened season the whalers took 103 minkes, their lowest tally ever, in what Sea Shepherd said was a financial disaster. :) Federal Environment Minister Tony Burke said the tally was ''103 whales too many. That's why we are taking Japan to the International Court of Justice to stop this practice forever.'' Japan's Fisheries Minister Yoshimasa Hayashi told the whalers in Shimonoseki that Sea Shepherd's activities ''amounted to piracy''. He claimed that the International Whaling Commission recognised the legitimacy of Japan's whaling research. Statements posted on the Japanese language website of the Institute of Cetacean Research detailed the sabotage claims. It blamed Australia and the Netherlands, as flag states for the Sea Shepherd ships, for not halting the violence. ''The Australian government … has come up with a willingness to tolerate the act, such as providing harbour (for) Sea Shepherd,'' the institute said. :) Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/australia-blamed-for-helping-whale-protest-20130408-2hh70.html#ixzz2Pv4GmqIl |
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Title: Re: Australia Blamed For Helping Whale Protest. Post by imcrookonit on Apr 9th, 2013 at 10:04am
The Japanese just will not take the hint. Stop your whaling. ;)
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Title: Re: Australia Blamed For Helping Whale Protest. Post by Dnarever on Apr 9th, 2013 at 10:10am
the Institute of Cetacean Research,
I love the fact that they allow there cretans to research, probably cuts the cost of the pretence. |
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Title: Re: Australia Blamed For Helping Whale Protest. Post by red baron on Apr 9th, 2013 at 3:28pm
Japan can criticise all it likes, it would be a brave Government that would ban the Sea Shepherd Group from its worthy endeavours.
The Sea Shepherd Group has a very large support base here and read into that Voters. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Apr 9th, 2013 at 7:16pm
The last 4 Posts were moved here from General Board by freediver.
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Apr 9th, 2013 at 7:17pm
Actually there are plenty of countries that Paul Watson can no longer set foot in. He is a self confessed pirate and criminal. Backing him is morally no different to backing terrorists.
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Mnemonic on Apr 10th, 2013 at 12:48am Dnarever wrote on Feb 20th, 2013 at 8:32pm:
It doesn't. I think it's a matter of funding. If Paul Watson and his fellow activists can't get funding for their cause, they can't continue their activities against the Japanese whalers. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Mnemonic on Apr 10th, 2013 at 1:19am freediver wrote on Apr 9th, 2013 at 7:17pm:
Be careful who you call "terrorist." Remember the Tibetan riots in China? The Chinese were calling the rioters terrorists. Choose your words carefully. "Vandal" sounds more like it. They're not dealing with Osama bin Laden here. Examples of vandalism could include graffiti, smashing shop windows, stealing copper wire, damaging private property and sabotage. This is what the Japanese are facing. Let's not equate vandalism with terrorism. They are two different things. It's like when you compare an event to the Holocaust. You're saying that the damage Paul Watson is doing is the same as that suffered by victims of terrorism. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Apr 10th, 2013 at 1:34am
fair enough Mnemonic..
couldn't agree more. A pity that Tibet didn't have a shepherd.. :( The fact that Sea Shepherd IS funded by the generic 'public', is a clear indication that many voiceless people agree with the agenda. That they succeed... fantastic and all good wishes to them. This is so much more than being about whales.. I wonder at those who choose to be in opposition. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by red baron on Apr 10th, 2013 at 7:20am
What is unacceptable about this whole situation is the utter failure and dereliction of duty by the Australian Government to Police Australian waters in Antarctica.
Where is the Australian Navy? Where is it? Armed Japanese ships using stun grenades in Australian Waters? This could only happen on Labor's watch which is non existent. The great example is the illegal boat that docked at Geraldton W.A. yesterday with a single hand held up. This Government is a disgrace, roll on September. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Apr 10th, 2013 at 9:43pm
there's a big difference wart baron.
they are not comparable in any way and it's just another blatant attempt to slag the govt. FFS Boat people aren't a problem... in the real world... this demonisation of refugees, lumping then all into the same bucket... or sinking boat.. >:( is hysteria.. plain and simple.. Still ..., creeps like you need the weaker more vulnerable people to stick the boot into. Cowards. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Apr 11th, 2013 at 5:29pm Quote:
Sea Shepherd sinks ships, throws bombs and tries to create environmental catastrophes in pristine and delicate ecosystems. Sea Shepherd have used the term pirate to describe themselves, and openly advocate taking the law into their own hands. Quote:
Al Quaida also made a name for itself attacking boats before flying planes into buildings. I don't think they ever sunk one though, so I guess that makes Sea Shepherd more successful on that count. Quote:
There are plenty of voiceless people who agree with Al Quaida. 9/11 would not have been possible without the help of these generous donors. Don't you agree? Quote:
It is not a failure, it is recognition of international law and a welcome relief from our self delusions of grandeur and owning the oceans. Quote:
What's the matter Emma? Are you opposed to sinking boats now? Don't like the idea of innocent people drowning at sea? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Apr 11th, 2013 at 11:42pm
FD??
I fail to see the connection... truly... what have they ever done to you..?? either Sea Shepherd... OR Boat People. ?? Hmm ? Pretty sure there is nothing.. just your personal outrage at the world not behaving the way you think it all should... shucks... life is tough baby. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Apr 12th, 2013 at 9:14pm Quote:
About as much as the Nazis have done to me. About as much as Al Quaida. Do you have a point? Quote:
You mean like, not trying to take the law into your own hands, sink ships, kill people and create ecological catastrophes? Quote:
Perhaps you should tell Sea Shepherd this so they can stop their constant whining about not getting their own way. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:51pm
do I have a point??
Do you?? It escapes me... has something happened?? A boat was sunk and people were killed?? didn't hear about that. I thought the Japanese researchers had gone home. :-? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Political Animal on Apr 13th, 2013 at 12:09am
Perhaps I could come to your place of work and ram your car because I don't like what you or your company does for a living? Do you use pens? My pet hate is pen use. It's exploitation.
Do I have the right to ram you off the road on the way to work? Throw acid at your car? I promise it's only to stop you abusing the pens and no one died. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Emma Peel on Apr 13th, 2013 at 12:40am
jeez are you screwed up/... ::)
more dribbled irrelevency, more woeful analogies.. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Karnal on Apr 13th, 2013 at 12:43am
If you don’t like pens, Political, no one is forcing you to use them. I have no problem with you throwing acid on the cars of these people - this is your right in a civil society. But equally, you should allow them to write with their pens.
What exactly is it about pens that bothers you so? I once knew a bondage mistress who had a client who loved to write things on her - with a pen. It used to get him off. Some people like throwing acid on cars, and some like pens. This is the rich tapestry of life. Innit. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Political Animal on Apr 13th, 2013 at 1:07am
As long as I have the right like Bob and Paul to attack Emma it's all good. She can keep using her pens and I can throw acid on her car.
People that abuse pens make me sick. How can they condone draining the life blood out of a defenceless thing of beauty, slowly pushing its head down to bleed on paper all for their own selfish egos so that their 'writing' can be captured. Surely in this day and age there is no need for this torture. There are far more acceptable scientific methods of recording prose like computers, even typewriter than dont involve the torture of pens and the draining of their ink. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Mnemonic on Apr 13th, 2013 at 1:50am Political Animal wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 12:09am:
Bad example. Pens aren't alive; can you find something that is? How about slaughter houses for farm animals? If I'm not killing the animals in the correct manner, there should be laws against that. Ordinary people shouldn't need to get involved in protesting, through vandalism of my property and by directly threatening my life. The difference between ramming my car and Sea Shepherd ramming the Japanese whalers is that what happens between Sea Shepherd and the whalers is in international waters, whereas I could actually sue the person ramming my car while I'm driving it. It's within the jurisdiction of State and Federal courts. What I do with these animals is perfectly legal until someone makes a law against it and when that happens, the police will come and take me away or I get a huge fine for my atrocious behaviour. Even then, anyone who rams my car when I'm inside it is still guilty of assault. Two wrongs don't make a right. We'd both be criminals. Out in the sea you can't really do anything unless the international courts actually deal with incidents in international waters. Maybe they should have laws for that, so that ships from different countries don't ram each other. On the other hand, who's going to enforce these laws in international waters even if there are laws for it? Paul Watson however is more concerned about the whales than whatever laws there might be. He's doing this for a cause and for him the cause is more important than the law. If he can save the lives of a few whales, then endangering human life is a necessary evil. That's how he justifies it. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Political Animal on Apr 13th, 2013 at 2:06am
They are alive to me. Why do you hate pens so much? what have they ever done to you?
If its in international waters then it should be none of our business, but in that case, if Paul is using a pen then I am quite within my rights to blow his ship to kingdom come? As long as he's in international waters. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by muso on Apr 13th, 2013 at 7:07am
Oh the Sea Shepherd got rammed did it? Anybody seriously maimed?
Anyone on board reduced to tears?  index_001.jpeg (8 KB | 65
) |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Apr 13th, 2013 at 9:04am Emma wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:51pm:
Sea Shepherd have sunk boats, and not just their own gay boats. It is one of the reasons Paul Watson is a wanted man in many European countries. Quote:
Ah, so it is only acceptable to resort to piracy and taking the alw into your own hands for causes that you support? Quote:
You left out the bit about taking the law into your own hands, sinking boats in frigid waters and attempting to create ecological disasters. Quote:
They do. Sea Shepherd is a criminal organisation and have had adverse rulings against them. Quote:
The Japanese military for a start. The whalers themselves have sunk a Sea Shepehrd boat. One day Sea Shepherd will go too far and the Japs are going to sink the lot of them. There is also the option of itnernational courts. Quote:
Can you explain how this is different to Al Quaida? |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Mnemonic on Apr 13th, 2013 at 3:37pm freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 9:04am:
These adverse rulings have failed to shut down his organisation, so he continues doing what he does. Going back to what I said about being fined or arrested by police for slaughtering animals incorrectly, you either deter him from doing what he does or you lock him up so he can't continue his activities. If adverse rulings haven't stopped him, then either your legal system has failed or these adverse rulings have far too limited scope. freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 9:04am:
Well, why don't they get on with it then? Why don't both sides go to the international courts, get the whole issue resolved, punish whoever's in the wrong and stop them from doing what they're doing, forever? That way, we can all just forget these things ever happened and move on. The people dealing with this controversy definitely have a great deal of patience. freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 9:04am:
For one thing, al-Qaeda actually intends to kill people. Paul Watson doesn't. In fact Paul Watson tries to minimise the loss of human life. If there is indeed a loss of human life, that's collateral damage. If you're going to tell me that even collateral damage makes you a terrorist, then the U.S. Army, Navy and Air Force are terrorist organisations. They are trained to kill, but in areas that include civilians they are careful. Sometimes, however, they accidentally cause the deaths of civilians. Those stray bombs in Afghanistan have killed lots of civilians. What Paul Watson does has more in common with the U.S. military than al-Qaeda. It is "controlled violence" for a cause you support, with minimal loss of human life. Paul Watson may not have government or legal support/authorisation (unlike the U.S. armed forces), but he does have a "code" for what he does. That is good enough for some people to accept. It's like Robin Hood, an outlaw. If someone dies, that's collateral damage and if you're telling me it makes Paul Watson a terrorist then the U.S. armed forces are terrorist organisations. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Apr 13th, 2013 at 4:04pm Quote:
He does not continue setting foot in many countries. Quote:
All it means is that the Japs are playing a different game. Sea Shepherd are a PR boon for them. Quote:
Because there are bigger issues at stake than whether Sea Shepherd is allowed to take the law into their own hands. BTW, plenty of people have tried to take legal action against Japan and failed. In other industries (tuna for example) they have had clear victories over Japan. Quote:
Yes they do. Quote:
So it would be a complete accident if he succeeded in sinking a boat in antarctic waters and people died as a result? Or if he killed one of his lemmings by putting them in harm's way? Quote:
That's just stupid. Al Quaida and Sea Shepherd are both acting outside of international law, and both are extra governmental organisations. Quote:
And Al Quaida doesn't? Quote:
It is only good enough for hypocrites. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by Mnemonic on Apr 15th, 2013 at 1:29am freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 4:04pm:
Are you referring to Greenpeace's efforts to stop whaling through behind-the-scenes negotiations? Well, that's fair enough. freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 4:04pm:
Let's hope nobody dies. Yes, if someone dies it's an accident. Paul Watson is putting both his crew and the Japanese in danger, but has no intention of committing a murder. freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 4:04pm:
Well, you're making a different comparison to the one I made. I said that Paul Watson doesn't intend to kill people and that any loss of human life is collateral damage. al-Qaeda on the other hand, doesn't care about how many people die. If any of their own die, they're martyrs. If their enemies die, it's either because they deserved it or their lives just weren't that valuable. Human lives are lower on the priority list of al-Qaeda. Paul Watson actually does care about human life, but he also wants to stop people catching whales. I was right about my comparison and you're right about your's. The question now is which comparison is more compelling in terms of determining "right" and "wrong" here. freediver wrote on Apr 13th, 2013 at 4:04pm:
Paul Watson's code has more in common with that of the U.S. armed forces: that they do not cause loss of human life unnecessarily. al-Qaeda has a lower priority for human lives. For al-Qaeda, human beings are just cannon fodder. They are just tools to be used for their cause. Paul Watson doesn't treat humans as tools to be used for their cause, to be thrown away when he doesn't need them anymore. Here's a question. How many "innocent people" have died as a result of Paul Watson's activities compared to those of the U.S. and al-Qaeda, including those dying from collateral damage? Referring back to what I said earlier about murder, terrorists intend to murder people. al-Qaeda is an organisation that commits murder. Paul Watson has no intention of committing murder. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Apr 15th, 2013 at 6:59pm Quote:
LOL. Just because you aren't breaking laws, trying to sink ships and wreaking ecological havoc does not make your efforts "behind the scenes". Quote:
Suppose you tried to run a car off the road because you objected to the music it was playing, and someone in that car died. Would a jury of your peers accept your argument that the death was an accident? Quote:
Perhaps you have a point. Maybe Sea Shepherd is slightly above Al Quaida on the moral ladder. Maybe. Quote:
Are you suggesting that Al Quaida consider their own actions unnecessary? Quote:
Oh, that's how they are different to an army. Thanks for clarifying. |
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Title: Re: Sea Shepherd gets rammed Post by freediver on Apr 20th, 2013 at 10:25am |
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