Australian Politics Forum

Australian Politics Forum
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl Member Run Boards >> Islam >> Is This What We Can Look Forward To? http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1339842765 Message started by adamant on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 8:32pm

Title: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by adamant on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 8:32pm

Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29

2012.06.15 (Maroof, Afghanistan) - Terrorists detonate a bomb at a marketplace, killing a patron.
2012.06.14 (Parang, Philippines) - A 90-year-old woman is among four people strafed with machine-gun fire by Abu Sayyaf.
2012.06.13 (Hillah, Iraq) - Twenty-two people at a restaurant are massacred in mid-bite by two Sunni car bombs.
2012.06.13 (Baghdad, Iraq) - Sixteen people at a dining hall are liquidated by Religion of Peace blast.
2012.06.13 (Baghdad, Iraq) - A bomb at a commercial compound rips nine people to shreds.
2012.06.13 (Fallujah, Iraq) - Women and children are among the casualties when Jihadis blow up a house.

* Sources for individual incidents can be provided upon request.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by falah on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 11:06pm

50 million people killed by Christians in Europe.

World War II.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by adamant on Jun 17^th, 2012 at 1:10am

80 million Hindu's killed by muslims!

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by adamant on Jun 18^th, 2012 at 12:08am

Today's loving contribution by muslims.

Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29

2012.06.16 (Landi Kotal, Pakistan) - Sharia advocates detonate a truck bomb amid a crowd at a market, sending over twenty-six souls to Allah.
2012.06.16 (Baghdad, Iraq) - A Mujahideen bomb targeting rescue personnel assisting survivors of an earlier blast ends the lives of at least eighteen more innocents.
2012.06.16 (Baghdad, Iraq) - A bomb targeting Shiite pilgrims leaves fourteen dead.
2012.06.15 (Saadiyah, Iraq) - A husband and wife are murdered in their bedroom by Mujahideen.
2012.06.15 (Bara, Pakistan) - Two children lose their lives to a landmine left by Islamic militants.
2012.06.15 (Maroof, Afghanistan) - Terrorists detonate a bomb at a marketplace, killing a patron.

* Sources for individual incidents can be provided upon request.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by falah on Jun 18^th, 2012 at 2:11am

The CIA has been busy with their false-flag operations

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by adamant on Jun 18^th, 2012 at 8:15am

falah wrote on Jun 18^th, 2012 at 2:11am:

The CIA has been busy with their false-flag operations

Your paranoia is showing again.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jun 18^th, 2012 at 8:19am

Falah, for someone with a long list of people to kill, including fellow Muslims, you are remarkably unwilling to accept the fact that Muslims kill each other on a regular basis.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by falah on Jun 18^th, 2012 at 7:27pm

freediver wrote on Jun 18^th, 2012 at 8:19am:

Falah, for someone with a long list of people to kill, including fellow Muslims, you are remarkably unwilling to accept the fact that Muslims kill each other on a regular basis.

Freeliar your credibility is shot to pieces when you make such lies. I do not want to kill anyone.

Maybe this is a Freudian slip on your behalf. Who is it that you would kill to fulfill your Zionist ambitions?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by John Smith on Jun 18^th, 2012 at 7:46pm

get a life ... you two have nothing better to do than bash each others religions ... you're both idiots and you're both wrong ... religion is merely a means to control the masses ... once your dead the only person you need to please are the earthworms .. make sure you don't give them indegestion

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 18^th, 2012 at 8:04pm

John Smith wrote on Jun 18^th, 2012 at 7:46pm:

I agree.
Muslims are very wrong.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jun 19^th, 2012 at 7:53pm

falah wrote on Jun 18^th, 2012 at 7:27pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 18^th, 2012 at 8:19am:

Falah, for someone with a long list of people to kill, including fellow Muslims, you are remarkably unwilling to accept the fact that Muslims kill each other on a regular basis.

So tell us Falah, how many Iranian leaders do you think deserve the death penalty? What do you think should happen to the other Iranian Shites who refuse to abandon their heresies?

How would you expect Shites to interpret your refusal to give a straight answer on this?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by adamant on Jun 19^th, 2012 at 11:10pm

More love is spread around (is it willy nilly)

The sign, held by a Salafi fundamentalist in Tunisia, reads
“No to Democracy.” Only in the Islamic world would you
find people who actually protest their own political freedom.

Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29

2012.06.18 (Baqubah, Iraq) - A Sunni detonates himself inside a tent packed with Shia funeral mourners, killing at least twenty-two.
2012.06.18 (Tagab, Afghanistan) - At least six locals are exterminated when religious extremists detonate a bomb at a bazaar.
2012.06.18 (Quetta, Pakistan) - Five Shiite students are blown to bits by Taliban bombers.
2012.06.17 (Trikania, Nigeria) - A Shahid suicide car bomber crashes through a church gate and blows up at least five Christians.
2012.06.17 (Fallujah, Iraq) - Two children are among six slain by Jihadi bombers.
2012.06.17 (Zaria, Nigeria) - Holy Warriors walk into two church services and detonate, leaving over thirty worshipers dead in the carnage, including at least ten children.

* Sources for individual incidents can be provided upon request.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by adamant on Jun 19^th, 2012 at 11:19pm

OH NO It just turns out to be a SILLY WILLY

Afghan Authorities Stop Going Soft On Viagra

June 18, 2012

Afghanistan's reputation as a haven for drug smugglers is well known.

But while it is normally opium and its derivative substances that grab all the headlines, it seems that a little blue pill is now causing the authorities serious concern.

Viagra, a well-known erectile dysfunction drug, has long been in demand in the country.

Such is its popularity the CIA has in the past been known to use the medicament as an enticement for tribal leaders to pass on information about Taliban movements.

Now, however, it seems the little love philter is so prevalent it has become a major headache for the government in Kabul.

The Afghan Health Ministry has recently issued warnings about the potentially dangerous nonprescription use of Viagra.

According to the BBC, up to 2 million pills can be legally imported into Afghanistan each year, but ministry officials believe at least 4 million pills are being consumed nationwide.
Indeed, given the notoriously porous nature of Afghanistan's borders, some believe that the number of tablets that are flooding into the country could be even higher.

As Afghanistan only has an estimated male population of 9 million, it seems that demand for Viagra is exceedingly high.

Why Afghan men appear to have such a pressing need for the aphrodisiac has been the source of some speculation.

One BBC correspondent suggested that 34 years of almost continuous war in the country could be one of the causes. It's well known that residing in conflict zones can give rise to a whole host of psychological problems, which can have a concomitant impact on sexual performance.

Some have also pointed to the fact that Afghan men can have as many as four, often younger, wives at any given time. It's little wonder, therefore, that the little blue diamonds might help maintain domestic harmony in many households.

Whatever the reasons for its popularity, it seems the Afghan Health Ministry's warnings about Viagra have so far fallen on deaf ears.

When a reporter from the BBC's Dari Service visited an open-air market in Kabul, he found that merchants were still doing a very brisk trade in the tablets.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 3:02pm

Adamant wrote on Jun 19^th, 2012 at 11:10pm:

The sign, held by a Salafi fundamentalist in Tunisia, reads
“No to Democracy.” Only in the Islamic world would you
find people who actually protest their own political freedom.

Sadly it's not only in the Western world that we find deluded fools like you who believe Democracy = Political freedom.

I know my attempt to try and educate you is going to be in vain, but I'll give it a shot anyway.

In short, they're not protesting against political freedom, they're protesting against the imposition of the Western style of government, which today is known as "democracy", and which some deceptively try to pass off as merely meaning "political freedom" or "choosing your own leader", when it fact it means a lot more.

Muslims want to choose their own leaders, and have political freedom, hence their toppling of dictators all over the Middle East, and the West, through their proxies like the Egyptian military work day and night to prevent them having political freedom or choosing their own leaders, as we see them doing right this minute in Egypt, attempting to block the Muslim Brotherhood from getting into power, and trying to keep their military-backed secularist dictators like Ahmed Shafiq in power.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 8:10pm

If they actually wanted the people to choose their own leaders, they would welcome democracy. It is a far easier and surer path than the sort of dictatorships that Muslims favour. It would make it prety much inevitable. The problem is that Muslims do not want 'the people' the choose their own leaders. Islam is meant to be imposed from above. That is why so many Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan are fighting tooth and nail against the will of the people. They are willing to die to prevent their own countrymen from choosing leaders. The reason is of course, that the people would not choose Islamic leaders or Islamic law. That is why we see these absurdly tortuous attempts to deconstruct democracy from Abu and Falah.

Quote:

Muslims want to choose their own leaders, and have political freedom

What does political freedom mean Abu? If you can be stoned to death under Islamic law for apostasy on the grounds that it is a treasonous offence, how is it even remotely valid to claim that Muslims want it?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 11:25pm

freediver wrote on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 8:10pm:

Muslims want to choose their own leaders, and have political freedom

So why is it that as we speak, the Egyptian military (an institution known to be directly controlled from Washington) is attempting to dismantle the popularly elected parliament and president, in order to install their own Hosni MKII?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by bobbythebat1 on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 11:31pm

Adamant wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 8:32pm:

Why do we bring them to our country in Australia?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by adamant on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 11:36pm

More of that peculiar type of love being spread around unsparingly.

I find it disgusting that supposed HUMANS continue to do this type of thing?

Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29

2012.06.23 (Quetta, Pakistan) - Islamic militants are suspected in the target killing of eight men at a laundrymat.
2012.06.23 (Zinjibar, Yemen) - Thirty-five people are killed in a series of al-Qaeda landmine blasts.
2012.06.22 (Laddah, Pakistan) - Fundamentalsts capture and behead seven local soldiers.
2012.06.22 (Karachi, Pakistan) - Two seminary teachers are assassinated by Religion of Peace rivals.
2012.06.22 (Baghdad, Iraq) - 'Insurgents' set off a nail bomb at a crowded market, killing at least a dozen innocents and leaving over a hundred more injured.
2012.06.21 (Quetta, Pakistan) - Religion of Peace rivals bomb a mosque, killing two worshippers.

* Sources for individual incidents can be provided upon request.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by adamant on Jun 25^th, 2012 at 12:35am

Bobby. wrote on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 11:31pm:

Adamant wrote on Jun 16^th, 2012 at 8:32pm:

Why do we bring them to our country in Australia?

I have often thought of this myself and have no sensible answer as to why a country would like to import such trouble with a capitol "T".

I was born in the UK and growing up there in the 60ties islam had a small footprint. Hindus and Sikhs predominated immigration at that time. Racial problems did occur Indians were denigrated and ridiculed by some.

"PAKI BASHING" came a bit later the reason for this I think was not colour or race but more the way they promoted their way of life. The in your face attitude that muslims have. The "I" am better than you attitude that pervades all of muslim though gives rise to hatred.

The stupidity of thought that muslims are always right and can never do wrong because they are part of the ummah and the ummah can do no wrong never ceases to amaze me.

The only way forward for Australian immigration is to ban all muslims from entering! If this does not happen in 10 years we will have muslim terrorist successfully blowing things up in OZ

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by falah on Jun 25^th, 2012 at 1:04am

Christian Terrorists Kidnapping Children

Christian Terrorists Kills 18 Civilians

Jewish Terrorists Kills 6 Year-Old Boy

Christian Terrorists Continue Attacks in Somalia

Buddhist Terrorists Attack Civilians In Burma

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by falah on Jun 25^th, 2012 at 1:08am

Adamant wrote on Jun 25^th, 2012 at 12:35am:

You are a Sikh aren't you adamant. I have been informed about you.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jun 25^th, 2012 at 6:24am

There are massacres in "western" society too. They are just more often in so called muslim countries because they dont have the means to control it. Ppl are bastards. They will kill each other. Western society kinda controls this but not altogether.

The kind of psychopaths that like to kill are usually religious. Any religion will do. normal muslims dont go out and kill ppl. Its radicals that are not controlled. In australia ppl are controlled and they dont go around killing ppl. Except occasionally. Go figger.

It depends what is socially acceptable in your culture. Mobs dont even form here normally because they will get arrested. Mobs nearly always bring violence. London "riots" etc. In poorer countries mobs form more rapidly.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jun 25^th, 2012 at 7:45am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 25^th, 2012 at 6:24am:

There are massacres in "western: society too. They are just more often in so called muslim countries because they dont have the means to control it. Ppl are bastards. They will kill each other. Western society kinda controls this but not altogether.

Interestingly almost all the countries mentioned also have one thing in common. A U.S military presence, and U.S-backed dictators who are oppressing their people. Yet idiots like adamant can't work out what would cause such people to respond in a violent manner???

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jun 25^th, 2012 at 9:32am

abu_rashid wrote on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 11:25pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 24^th, 2012 at 8:10pm:

Muslims want to choose their own leaders, and have political freedom

I have no idea, but previously you insisted that they were directly controlled by the British military. Sounds to me like you make this sort of thing up on the spot to excuse whatever Muslims are up to.

Can you explain what you mean by political freedom?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jun 25^th, 2012 at 9:19pm

freediver wrote on Jun 25^th, 2012 at 9:32am:

The British forfeited their control of Egypt and most of their other imperial possessions to their successors the U.S long ago fd, get with the program.

To me political freedom means the implementation of a political system that is in the interests of the people of the country, rather than just a control mechanism for outside powers, who seek to subjugate the nation for their own interests. It means having a political system that is beholden to the people (in matters of loyalty, not necessarily in matters of legislation) of the nation, rather than to external powers. Egypt does not have this, neither does any Arab/Muslim country.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jun 25^th, 2012 at 10:12pm

Does political freedom mean and kind of personal rights or freedom for individuals? Or is it just a form of government that you approve of?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 12:19am

freediver wrote on Jun 25^th, 2012 at 10:12pm:

Does political freedom mean and kind of personal rights or freedom for individuals? Or is it just a form of government that you approve of?

I don't believe it has to involve the people legislating all sorts of despicable social messes no. I don't think if the people call for it, then prostitution or gambling or alcohol or heroin should be allowed. We've been over all this before though, it obviously didn't do you much good, as you still don't get it.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 9:17am

I was thinking more along the lines of something that might be relevant to the term 'political freedom'. For example, should people be allowed to criticise the government and the government's ideology? Should they have freedom of association? Should they be allowed to establish competing political parties or organisations? For example should people be allowed to campaign for Shia in Sunni countries?

It appears to me that when you say political freedom you mean imposing shariah law on whatever people you consider to be living on lands 'owned' by Islam, and that outside of these areas you mean the right to attempt to impose it. I don't see anything in what you say that justifies the term freedom.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 9:20pm

freediver wrote on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 9:17am:

They should be allowed, nay mandated, to call it to account. When you say criticising, do you mean call to account? Or do you mean to make disparaging remarks about? Constructive criticism, sure.

Can I criticise the government and its ideology "freely" without limit in Australia?

freediver wrote on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 9:17am:

Should they have freedom of association?

Generally speaking, yes.

freediver wrote on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 9:17am:

Should they be allowed to establish competing political parties or organisations? For example should people be allowed to campaign for Shia in Sunni countries?

No. The ideology of Islam is the only permitted ideology under Islamic rule.

freediver wrote on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 9:17am:

It appears to me that when you say political freedom you mean imposing shariah law on whatever people you consider to be living on lands 'owned' by Islam, and that outside of these areas you mean the right to attempt to impose it. I don't see anything in what you say that justifies the term freedom.

Freedom always has limits, this is a fact. We have different ideas on what the ideal limits should be, that's all.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 10:27pm

So when you talk about political freedom, you mean that Sunni Islam should be imposed on people and they should not be allowed to have any other political ideologies?

Quote:

Freedom always has limits, this is a fact. We have different ideas on what the ideal limits should be, that's all.

Falah, I think we disagree on what freedom means. I can't make any sense of how you equate what you described with political freedom. It is the exact opposite.

Quote:

Can I criticise the government and its ideology "freely" without limit in Australia?

So long as you don't blow up a bus, sure. Are you referring to any kind of limits in particular?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 11:47pm

freediver wrote on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 10:27pm:

So when you talk about political freedom, you mean that Sunni Islam should be imposed on people and they should not be allowed to have any other political ideologies?

To me Islam is as Democracy is to you. You believe Democracy must be the foundation of the political system, and that parties which adopt the Democratic ideology can then compete on that platform. If a party does not accept the Democratic platform, then in your belief they shouldn't be allowed to participate in the political arena, correct? Likewise for us, any party not adopting the Islamic platform, is not welcome to compete.

freediver wrote on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 10:27pm:

Quote:

Freedom always has limits, this is a fact. We have different ideas on what the ideal limits should be, that's all.

Falah, I think we disagree on what freedom means. I can't make any sense of how you equate what you described with political freedom. It is the exact opposite.

Firstly, figure out who you're speaking to. If you can't get this basic fact straight, then obviously you're not fit for this discussion.

Your viewpoint here stems from your misconception that you believe in 100% unfettered freedom, you do not, and if you actually do, then you're a loon. As I said, we merely have a difference of opinion on what the "cut off" point is at which we consider freedom is crossing over into self-destructiveness.

freediver wrote on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 10:27pm:

Quote:

Can I criticise the government and its ideology "freely" without limit in Australia?

So long as you don't blow up a bus, sure. Are you referring to any kind of limits in particular?

Australia's treason & sedition laws suggest otherwise.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 12:44pm

Quote:

To me Islam is as Democracy is to you. You believe Democracy must be the foundation of the political system, and that parties which adopt the Democratic ideology can then compete on that platform.

Abu, you take it far further than that by insisting that Islam is democracy and is freedom. I don't try to tell you that our system of government is Shariah law and I consider it blatantly dishonest for you to attempt to argue the corollary.

Quote:

If a party does not accept the Democratic platform, then in your belief they shouldn't be allowed to participate in the political arena, correct?

No. Democracy and freedom are an inherently fragile system. Hence the saying that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. We wouldn't have political freedom and democracy if we forbade certain parties from running for office. The only time I have gone so far as to suggest legal intervention in the problem of Islam is to suggest we deny immigration to people who reject freedom and democracy. This should apply to all who do so, whether they are Nazis, Muslims or some other group.

Quote:

Likewise for us, any party not adopting the Islamic platform, is not welcome to compete.

There is nothing at all alike in your alternative.

Quote:

Your viewpoint here stems from your misconception that you believe in 100% unfettered freedom

No Abu. I have pointed out dozens of times to you that this is simply incorrect. I have no idea how to explain it to you in any simpler terms. You are the one making this claim, over and over again, in spite of the facts. Not me.

Quote:

Australia's treason & sedition laws suggest otherwise.

Can you give an example of how these laws might prevent you from criticising the government, other than say, by blowing up a bus?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 5:37pm

Inquiry exposes fear of Muslims

by: PATRICIA KARVELAS
From: The Australian
June 27, 2012 12:00AM

AUSTRALIANS are comfortable with multiculturalism and racial diversity, but an overwhelming number of people have expressed concerns that Muslims are not integrating and are coming to Australia to impose their values on the nation.

A far-reaching bipartisan federal parliamentary inquiry into the nation's acceptance of culturally diverse communities, due to report in August, will conclude that the largest issue facing the nation is the acceptance of Muslims, who many Australians fear have an agenda not at one with the country's values.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 8:21pm

freediver wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 12:44pm:

Quote:

To me Islam is as Democracy is to you. You believe Democracy must be the foundation of the political system, and that parties which adopt the Democratic ideology can then compete on that platform.

What nonsense. I would never degrade the good name of Islam by associating it with these disastrous ideals of freedom and democracy.

freediver wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 12:44pm:

Quote:

Australia's treason & sedition laws suggest otherwise.

Can you give an example of how these laws might prevent you from criticising the government, other than say, by blowing up a bus?

Criticising the government's inhumane terrorist activities in Afghanistan & Iraq comes to mind.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 8:25pm

Soren wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 5:37pm:

[url=http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/inquiry-exposes-fear-of-muslims/story-fn9hm1gu-1226409557512]Inquiry exposes fear of Muslims

by: PATRICIA KARVELAS
From: The Australian
June 27, 2012 12:00AM

AUSTRALIANS are comfortable with multiculturalism and racial diversity, but an overwhelming number of people have expressed concerns that Muslims are not integrating and are coming to Australia to impose their values on the nation.

A far-reaching bipartisan federal parliamentary inquiry into the nation's acceptance of culturally diverse communities, due to report in August, will conclude that the largest issue facing the nation is the acceptance of Muslims, who many Australians fear have an agenda not at one with the country's values.

The problem with Islam seems to be purely that it is too attractive to people. People like you soren don't mind Buddhists, Vietnamese, Jains, Chinese, Hindus etc. because there's nothing overly attractive about their way of life. Australians are not en masse going to adopt their way of life, hence you are "safe" from them. But with Islam, you know full well it's attractive to people, and Australians are going to embrace and adopt it, and this scares you. You want only peoples who are going to assimilate into your culture, not you end up assimilating to theirs.

It's a simple fact Islam could never impose itself on Australians, this claim is a just a smoke screen, because it sounds pretty pathetic to admit you fear people embracing it voluntarily.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 9:37pm

Quote:

What nonsense. I would never degrade the good name of Islam by associating it with these disastrous ideals of freedom and democracy

So what do you mean when you advocate political freedom? Why did you use the word freedom? To mislead?

Quote:

Criticising the government's inhumane terrorist activities in Afghanistan & Iraq comes to mind.

Is this illegal?

Quote:

It's a simple fact Islam could never impose itself on Australians

That doesn't stop Islamic extremists from trying, and killing plenty of people along the way.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 10:14pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 8:25pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 5:37pm:

Correct except for the bit about Islam being attractive to people. Out of that two line extract, one and a half lines escaped your attention, because you are a Muslim. Here it is again: "an overwhelming number of people have expressed concerns that Muslims are not integrating and are coming to Australia to impose their values on the nation."

Nothing about attractiveness of Islam. Everything about an overwhelming number believing that you are the enemies of their society and culture. There is no conscious, concerted effort by the Buddhists or all the rest of them, to turn this place into some mythical Buddhist land. You jihadi Muslims, on the other hand, are devoting your lives and your children's lives through their indoctrination, to the realisation of the global Islamic caliphate, with all its dreadful barbarity and idiotic literalness.

Muslims like you, jihadis of polemics and argument, as well the jihadis of violence and murder, oppose the very foundations of the social and legal system in this country and the West generally. You oppose the very core of its culture and heritage, customs, freedoms, the lot. You are the enemy of everything that its citizens swear to. People know this. You know this. There is no attraction, only mutual repulsion.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 8:00pm

I challenge you Abu to find a singe non-Muslim Australian who finds the idea attractive of destroying our democracy and replacing it with Islamic law, or stoning people to death for rejecting Islam, or making women cover everything but their face and hands in 40 degree heat, or permitting us to take slaves home from war to have sex with.

If Islam is so attractive, why do you go to such absurd lengths to avoid discussing them or clarifying misunderstandings?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 9:42pm

freediver wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 9:37pm:

Quote:

What nonsense. I would never degrade the good name of Islam by associating it with these disastrous ideals of freedom and democracy

So what do you mean when you advocate political freedom? Why did you use the word freedom? To mislead?

Have you not read a single post I've made in response to you here? My concept of political freedom differs from yours. Whilst yours revolves around the capacity to carry out all sorts of devious and despicable "because you can", mine revolves around the capacity of the nation to determine their own course, rather than have it dictated to them from the "powers that be".

freediver wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 9:37pm:

Quote:

Criticising the government's inhumane terrorist activities in Afghanistan & Iraq comes to mind.

Is this illegal?

Apparently. If one's opposition to the war could be in any way interpreted as being "beneficial" to the "enemy" then it would be classed as sedition.

freediver wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 9:37pm:

Quote:

It's a simple fact Islam could never impose itself on Australians

That doesn't stop Islamic extremists from trying, and killing plenty of people along the way.

Can you provide an example of this fantasy of yours?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 9:55pm

You know Abu my USA friend here at university - he too has done his national service in IDF same time as me - he make a good comment

"one day one day the Arabs and Muslims will learn that you do not f**k with the Jews!"

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 10:16pm

Soren wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 10:14pm:

Correct except for the bit about Islam being attractive to people...

Muslims like you...

Muslims like me? You mean average Aussies who embraced Islam and proved the point you're arguing hopelessly against?

I find it most interesting that out of all the Muslims who have ever posted on this forum, almost every single one has been an Aussie who embraced Islam.

Quite clearly some of us *do* find it attractive. why not just admit that scares you? If Muslims were as hostile as you claim, I honestly don't think you'd fear Islam as much, because it'd be easy to make a case against it... but since it is winning hearts and minds, it's extremely dangerous isn't it?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 10:16pm

Quote:

Have you not read a single post I've made in response to you here? My concept of political freedom differs from yours.

I get that it is different. I get that you label it political. I still have no idea why you label it freedom - especially when in the next post you admit that you reject freedom and democracy.

Quote:

Apparently. If one's opposition to the war could be in any way interpreted as being "beneficial" to the "enemy" then it would be classed as sedition.

Apparently - so you don't actually know if what you say is true? Have you thought about it? Have you seen many Australians criticise what we are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan? Have you seen any arrested for this criticism? Have you ever been to Australia?

Quote:

Can you provide an example of this fantasy of yours?

Sure. There have been a few arrested in Melbourne recently.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 10:33pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 10:16pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 10:14pm:

Correct except for the bit about Islam being attractive to people...

Muslims like you...

All 4? or was it 5?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 8:03am

freediver wrote on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 10:16pm:

Quote:

Have you not read a single post I've made in response to you here? My concept of political freedom differs from yours.

I get that it is different. I get that you label it political. I still have no idea why you label it freedom - especially when in the next post you admit that you reject freedom and democracy.

fd, I get that you're not the brightest spark, but come on. The word "freedom" by itself, without context is pretty meaningless. This argument reminds me of two people arguing over growing pumpkins. Because my pumpkin is bigger, therefore you never even grew a pumpkin.

freediver wrote on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 10:16pm:

Quote:

Apparently. If one's opposition to the war could be in any way interpreted as being "beneficial" to the "enemy" then it would be classed as sedition.

Several Muslims have not only been arrested but convicted and given lengthy gaol terms just for such things.

freediver wrote on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 10:16pm:

Quote:

Can you provide an example of this fantasy of yours?

Sure. There have been a few arrested in Melbourne recently.

And what great crime exactly did they commit? How many people did they harm? Or perhaps they thought about such a thing right??? But Australia doesn't prosecute for thought crimes, no no no. fd, do you not see the linkage between this point and the previous one?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 8:04am

Soren wrote on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 10:33pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 10:16pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 10:14pm:

Correct except for the bit about Islam being attractive to people...

Muslims like you...

All 4? or was it 5?

We are a random sampling of Muslims in Australia.

Just admit this is what you fear.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 1:05pm

Quote:

It has enough meaning. Can you give a context in which what you describe can justifiably be called political freedom? In what context are you "free" to criticise the government and pursue political change, if you can only promote Sunni Islam and only criticise the government from a basis of Sunni Islam? Also, how does this context differ from the context above where you openly rejected freedom and democracy in the name of Islam?

Or, if you want to do analogies, can you tell me what is wrong with this analogy?

I have a red car. Abu has a blue one:

FD: Look at my red car.

Abu: I also have a red car.

FD: Looks blue to me. This is what a red car looks like.

Abu: FOOL! You are working on the assumption that your car is 100% red. But your tyres are black. Therefor we both have red cars. We only differ in the extent to which our cars are red.

FD: Would you like a red car Abu?

Abu: Hell no! I hate red cars. I would only ever get a blue one.

FD: So that's why your car is blue.

Abu: I already explained that it is red. My concept of red merely differs from yours.

FD: Can you explain how your concept differs to the point that your blue car is red?

Abu: The term "red" is meaningless without context. Therefor I can use it to describe my car without misleading anyone.

Quote:

Several Muslims have not only been arrested but convicted and given lengthy gaol terms just for such things.

In Australia? Merely for criticising the government's foreign policy? Can you give examples?

Quote:

They did not merely think about committing terrorism. They actually started preparing an attack. None of this has anything to do with what you are allowed to say about the government.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:24pm

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 1:05pm:

Quote:

It's not different at all to the system you believe in, where only parties who espouse the democratic ideology are valid.

The sad thing is, you are in denial about it. At least I'm honest enough to admit the political ideology I believe in admits no other ideology. You on the other hand delude yourself into thinking you have some kind of choice.

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 1:05pm:

Or, if you want to do analogies, can you tell me what is wrong with this analogy?

I have a red car. Abu has a blue one:

FD: Look at my red car.

Abu: I also have a red car.

FD: Looks blue to me. This is what a red car looks like.

Abu: FOOL! You are working on the assumption that your car is 100% red. But your tyres are black. Therefor we both have red cars. We only differ in the extent to which our cars are red.

FD: Would you like a red car Abu?

Abu: Hell no! I hate red cars. I would only ever get a blue one.

FD: So that's why your car is blue.

Abu: I already explained that it is red. My concept of red merely differs from yours.

FD: Can you explain how your concept differs to the point that your blue car is red?

Abu: The term "red" is meaningless without context. Therefor I can use it to describe my car without misleading anyone.

The only thing I see here is the first sign of madness.

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 1:05pm:

Quote:

Several Muslims have not only been arrested but convicted and given lengthy gaol terms just for such things.

In Australia? Merely for criticising the government's foreign policy? Can you give examples?

Pretty much every single Muslim charged with "terrorism" offences has merely been a critic of the government and its policies. They have not actually been convicted of committing any act whatsoever, they merely thought or expressed ideas. Yet you think you live in a system that has unlimited political freedom. You're a dreamer.

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 1:05pm:

Quote:

They did not merely think about committing terrorism. They actually started preparing an attack. None of this has anything to do with what you are allowed to say about the government.

Which of them actually prepared an attack? Some of them were convicted merely for asking what the Islamic ruling is on committing such acts. This was twisted into "seeking a fatwa to carry out the act", and then bang, half their life wasted in prison.... but never mind, we live in a country of unlimited political freedom, back to your little dreamworld fd. Nevermind the reality, keep ignoring it.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 11:53pm

Here we go, a fine example of the West's "political freedom" when it comes to Muslims:

London 2012: Two Muslim converts arrested over Olympic terror plot

Two Muslim converts were arrested in East London yesterday on suspicion of plotting an attack against the London Olympic canoeing venue.

Sources said the arrests were based on a tip-off after men were seen behaving suspiciously close to the venue in Waltham Abbey, Hertfordshire on Monday.

Hertfordshire police officers began combing the banks after three men were seen in a dinghy on the River Lea.

The two men, aged 18 and 32, were arrested at separate residential addresses in east London, by officers from the Metropolitan Police Counter-Terrorism Command, at 7am on Thursday morning.

They were detained under the Terrorism Act 2000 on suspicion of the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism and held at a central London police station.

A friend of the arrested men named the 18-year-old as Jamal ud-Din and said the older man was someone he knew only as "Zakariya."

Mizanur Rahman, 29, said the arrests "might have had something to do with the fact that they recently went canoeing" on the River Lea, a branch of which runs through the Olympic site in east London.

“It's just people trying to get into the Olympic spirit," he said, but he believed the authorities would try "painting it as jihad training."

Source: Telegraph

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:40am

abu_rashid wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 8:04am:

Soren wrote on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 10:33pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 10:16pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 10:14pm:

Correct except for the bit about Islam being attractive to people...

Muslims like you...

All 4? or was it 5?

We are a random sampling of Muslims in Australia.

Just admit this is what you fear.

You guys have done more here to make Islam repulsive than you realise. But then again this kind of total lack of self-awareness is a strong Islamic trait. Islam kills all irony about Islam. So all 4 or 5 converts here are the same: insufferably earnest, totally devoid of critical self-reflection. All silly beards and mental goose stepping, Islam, Islam uber alles.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 9:10am

Quote:

It's not different at all to the system you believe in, where only parties who espouse the democratic ideology are valid.

Are you suggesting that parties are not allowed to run for office unless they 'espouse the democratic ideology'?

Quote:

Quote:

Some of them were convicted merely for asking what the Islamic ruling is on committing such acts.

Can you give an example of one from Australia? Do you realise that the example you gave is not from Australia and did not involve a conviction?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:02pm

Soren wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:40am:

Repulsive only to those who have no concept of morality or sacredness. To those yearning for a sincere change in their lives, then Islam is indeed the most attractive system.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:07pm

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 9:10am:

Quote:

It's not different at all to the system you believe in, where only parties who espouse the democratic ideology are valid.

Are you suggesting that parties are not allowed to run for office unless they 'espouse the democratic ideology'?

That's right, if a party stands on a platform of opposing the democratic ideology (of human legislation) and seeks to change this system to one of legislation by the laws of the almighty creator alone, then they would not be permitted to attain power in Australia, just as a party seeking to do the opposite would have no means to do so according to the Islamic system.

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 9:10am:

Quote:

[quote]Some of them were convicted merely for asking what the Islamic ruling is on committing such acts.

Can you give an example of one from Australia? Do you realise that the example you gave is not from Australia and did not involve a conviction?[/quote]

I did not state it was from Australia. Learn to read more carefully. Why are you asking me to produce something, when I've asked you several posts ago now, to produce a case of Muslims who have been convicted here for actually being engaged in any act to commit harm to Australians. Clearly you cannot, hence your attempt to turn the questions around, without answering them (modus operandi for you isn't it?)

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:14pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:02pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:40am:

Repulsive only to those who have no concept of morality or sacredness. To those yearning for a sincere change in their lives, then Islam is indeed the most attractive system.

Muslims and morality?

Who was it who stones to death young girls who were raped?

A religion of animals and barbarism.
You have no shame and you being a white convert are worse.

At least the Arabs are stupid and know no better.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:20pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:07pm:

change this system to one of legislation by the laws of the almighty creator alone

In practical terms, who exactly decides what the almighty wants? Do your Islamic scholars have access to the mind of Allah?

So instead of elected, accountable men making the laws for the people they govern, you want uneleceted, unaccountable men to make laws. And to Muslim minds that is a forward step.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:38pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:14pm:

Muslims and morality?

Who was it who stones to death young girls who were raped?

Islam does not call for this. Yet your own book, which you frequently use to justify your very existence in the home of a poor Palestinian family, clearly states that if a girl is raped within the city limits then she must be stoned to death. No Islamic text states any such thing, your book clearly and unashamedly does.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:44pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:38pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:14pm:

Muslims and morality?

Who was it who stones to death young girls who were raped?

In the last decade there have been no stonings in the state of Israel.
However Islamic mobs have stoned to death many young girls in the Arab world and Islamic Africa.

Disgusting.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:46pm

Soren wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:20pm:

In practical terms, who exactly decides what the almighty wants? Do your Islamic scholars have access to the mind of Allah?

It has been revealed in the form of the message of Islam and explained by the prophets and messengers throughout the ages. The Islamic texts provide a complete system of legislation for mankind to live by.

Soren wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:20pm:

ISo instead of elected, accountable men making the laws for the people they govern, you want uneleceted, unaccountable men to make laws. And to Muslim minds that is a forward step.

Elected accountable men? pfft! Men who make laws like legalising prostitution and pornography? they are accountable to their own whims and desires, nothing more nothing less.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:53pm

Please also remember there is not one Israeli in Gaza and in 80% of the west bank if the Jordan.

We are only on our own homeland, where we belong. Where I was born and my father was too born.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 1:05pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:44pm:

In the last decade there have been no stonings in the state of Israel.

Irrelevant, it's part of your book and religion and culture.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:44pm:

However Islamic mobs have stoned to death many young girls in the Arab world and Islamic Africa.

Disgusting.

Those are vigilantes, criminals, who break the law. People in the Zionist entity also break the law, and murder people, is that part of Judaism then?

In fact, vigilantism is quite strong in the Zionist entity:

Supreme Court judge slams culture of civilian vigilantism
Gunman attacks Israeli gay centre

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 1:06pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:53pm:

Please also remember there is not one Israeli in Gaza and in 80% of the west bank if the Jordan.

We are only on our own homeland, where we belong. Where I was born and my father was too born.

None of it is your homeland, it's all land you stole from Palestinians since the early 1900's.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 1:30pm

Quote:

Do you mean that no-one would vote for them?

There is a very obvious mechanism Abu. If the majority of a population wants to destroy democracy and replace it with something else, then democracy is doomed, provided they can agree on what to replace it with. It is inevitable. Democracy is fragile.

Quote:

I did not state it was from Australia.

No, but I have been asking you for examples from Australia for the last half dozen or so posts. And you have been claiming that we do not have these freedoms. I am Australian, and you claim to be Australian, despite having no idea what Australia is like.

So, do you have any examples from Australia? Are we in fact free to criticise the government's foreign policy in a way that Islam would never permit? Or are you suggesting that we are not allowed to criticise the government, but that no-one has ever actually done so, hence the lack of convictions?

Are you confusing the public condemnation of Islam and it's barbaric ways, with some kind of illegality to believe or promote Islam?

Quote:

Why are you asking me to produce something, when I've asked you several posts ago now, to produce a case of Muslims who have been convicted here for actually being engaged in any act to commit harm to Australians.

Because the argument is about whether we are free to criticise the government, not whether we are free to blow up busses. BTW, I did give an example.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 2:29pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:53pm:

Please also remember there is not one Israeli in Gaza and in 80% of the west bank if the Jordan.

We are only on our own homeland, where we belong. Where I was born and my father was too born.

None of it is your homeland, it's all land you stole from Palestinians since the early 1900's.

Yes it is and understand something, we will never leave.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 8:19pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:46pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:20pm:

In practical terms, who exactly decides what the almighty wants? Do your Islamic scholars have access to the mind of Allah?

ISo instead of elected, accountable men making the laws for the people they govern, you want uneleceted, unaccountable men to make laws. And to Muslim minds that is a forward step.

Elected accountable men? pfft! Men who make laws like legalising prostitution and pornography? they are accountable to their own whims and desires, nothing more nothing less.

You just do not realise how primitive and dark your allegiance is.

Allah signifies a massive block of illumination. Allah-worship led to unprecedented decadence and darkening of the spirit. You look at the peasant faces of the Al Hilalis and Trads and all the other Muslims with the low brow and jutting jaw and fat lips, hair (animalistic hair and hair fetish everywhere) and bugger-all accomplishment and you can actually see how primitive and demonic it all has been. You look at the mass of rage boys rallying for Islam and you can see that you are on the wrong side.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Uncle Meat on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 11:36pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 2:29pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 12:53pm:

Please also remember there is not one Israeli in Gaza and in 80% of the west bank if the Jordan.

We are only on our own homeland, where we belong. Where I was born and my father was too born.

None of it is your homeland, it's all land you stole from Palestinians since the early 1900's.

Yes it is and understand something, we will never leave.

Coward pussy.

Grow a pair, you useless bigoted racist scum bag.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by adamant on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 11:46pm

I have pondered why islam is such a dangerous religion whilst housed in some of the worlds most wondrous scenic places. I have as yet formulated no response to my musings. The killings below are nothing more than a disgusting blight on the "unhumanity" that is muslim.

No Jews or other outside forces were involved in the killings listed below.

Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29

2012.06.29 (Kamdesh, Afghanistan) - Four women are among ten innocents slain by a Shahid suicide attack.
2012.06.29 (Balad, Iraq) - Jihadis take down seven patrons with two market bombs.
2012.06.29 (Dabaab, Kenya) - Islamists shoot a driver and kidnap four humanitarian workers.
2012.06.28 (Homs, Syria) - A university professor is shot to death in her home along with five family members, including three children.
2012.06.28 (Quetta, Pakistan) - A Fedayeen attack on a bus carrying Shia pilgrims leaves at least eighteen dead.
2012.06.28 (Baghdad, Iraq) - Islamic bombers successfully kill eight patrons at a marketplace.

* Sources for individual incidents can be provided upon request.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 10:02am

Adamant wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 11:46pm:

2012.06.29 (Kamdesh, Afghanistan) - Four women are among ten innocents slain by a Shahid suicide attack.
2012.06.29 (Balad, Iraq) - Jihadis take down seven patrons with two market bombs.
2012.06.29 (Dabaab, Kenya) - Islamists shoot a driver and kidnap four humanitarian workers.
2012.06.28 (Homs, Syria) - A university professor is shot to death in her home along with five family members, including three children.
2012.06.28 (Quetta, Pakistan) - A Fedayeen attack on a bus carrying Shia pilgrims leaves at least eighteen dead.
2012.06.28 (Baghdad, Iraq) - Islamic bombers successfully kill eight patrons at a marketplace.

Just a quick look at two of these incidents IN CONTEXT might cause the individual endowed with a little intellect to wonder what the point of such aggregation of news stories is.

Kenya is currently involved in a brutal invasion and occupation of Somalia that has resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of civilians, women, children, the works.

The Syrian regime has just spent the past year brutally crushing their own people, torturing children and so on.

Why is none of this mentioned as context to these isolated incidents? What kind of dishonest unprincipled swine would aggregate news like this, leaving out completely the facts of the situation on the ground in those countries?

Adamant wrote on Jun 30^th, 2012 at 11:46pm:

* Sources for individual incidents can be provided upon request.

Yeh I'm sure they can, can they provide some context though?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 10:05am

In Somalia - a 13 year old girl was stoned to death by an Islamic court order.

Her crime was to be raped by a gang of men and to report it.

Because she could not provide 5 male witnesses the court accused her of adultery and had her stoned to death.

This is Muslims for you.
[mod: watch your mouth חזיר

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 11:13am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 10:05am:

Firstly there's no such thing as 5 male witnesses in Islam. You made this up, and it's obvious.

Next I'd like you to show me the evidence she was raped and secondly that she was 13. Both of these "details" are false.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 11:42am

Her father stated she was 13 to Amnesty.

You admit anyway the Islamics stoned to death a young girl?

Like I said you are animals and we treat you as such.0

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by PoliticalPuppet on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 11:44am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 11:42am:

Her father stated she was 13 to Amnesty.

You admit anyway the Islamics stoned to death a young girl?

Like I said you are animals and we treat you as such.0

Would it be ok if they dropped a bomb on her?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by .Annie. on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 12:13pm

Quote:

You look at the peasant faces of the Al Hilalis and Trads and all the other Muslims with the low brow and jutting jaw and fat lips, hair (animalistic hair and hair fetish everywhere)

You are threatened by their ability to actually grow a beard aren't you, Soren? Your horror at seeing men with body hair on the beach was indicative of your intimidation.

We have had this discussion before, you effeminate pansy.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 12:19pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 12:13pm:

Quote:

You look at the peasant faces of the Al Hilalis and Trads and all the other Muslims with the low brow and jutting jaw and fat lips, hair (animalistic hair and hair fetish everywhere)

Are you offended they stoned to death a young girl in front of a crowd authorized and carried out by the Islamic court?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 12:44pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 11:42am:

Her father stated she was 13 to Amnesty.

Other reports state she was 23. I noticed you failed to provide any evidence she was raped.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 11:42am:

You admit anyway the Islamics stoned to death a young girl?

I have nothing to admit, as I have no involvement in the case whatsoever. This question though is indicative of your feeble attempt to attribute things to people in the course of your argument.

A woman was apparently executed for committing adultery, that's about all I know about the case. As usual Western media tried to lower her age, and claim she was raped etc. as they do in every such case like this.

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 11:42am:

Like I said you are animals and we treat you as such.0

חזיר

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 12:47pm

Quote:

I noticed you failed to provide any evidence she was raped.

Abu, did you read what Avram said? It was the lack of evidence that lead to her being stoned to death. If she couldn't come up with the evidence when her life was on the line, why would Avram be able to?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by falah on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 1:04pm

The Shabab government said that she was a 23 year-old woman who had confessed to committing adultery.

Why is Amnesty's baseless claims suddenly reliable in this case, but totally unreliable when it comes to Israel.

Is Amnesty credible? Is Amnesty only credible when they invent up stories about Muslims?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 1:46pm

Are you defending a decision to stone a young girl to death?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by PoliticalPuppet on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 1:49pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 1:46pm:

Are you defending a decision to stone a young girl to death?

Why oh why couldn't they have been humane and dropped a bomb on her.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 2:25pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 12:13pm:

Quote:

You look at the peasant faces of the Al Hilalis and Trads and all the other Muslims with the low brow and jutting jaw and fat lips, hair (animalistic hair and hair fetish everywhere)

Threatened? No. Repelled, yes. I find the swarthies mildly disgusting. Too greasy, hairy, flat-footed, too pungent. Too peasant. And that's just the women.
The blokes are also hairy and even more atavistic. They seem a few rungs down on the evolutionary ladder. A bit like werewolves, both in looks and outlook.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by PoliticalPuppet on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 2:36pm

Soren wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 2:25pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 12:13pm:

Quote:

You look at the peasant faces of the Al Hilalis and Trads and all the other Muslims with the low brow and jutting jaw and fat lips, hair (animalistic hair and hair fetish everywhere)

Annie I think he is a little de-masculinsed by them

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 5:58pm

By men who shave their legs?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by falah on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 6:07pm

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 2:36pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 2:25pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 12:13pm:

Quote:

You look at the peasant faces of the Al Hilalis and Trads and all the other Muslims with the low brow and jutting jaw and fat lips, hair (animalistic hair and hair fetish everywhere)

Annie I think he is a little de-masculinsed by them

There is something a bit Alan Jonesy about Soren.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by PoliticalPuppet on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 6:11pm

freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 5:58pm:

By men who shave their legs?

Tour de France?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 6:13pm

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 6:11pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 5:58pm:

By men who shave their legs?

Tour de France?

Yes, that must be why they do it, the chafing.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by PoliticalPuppet on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 6:17pm

freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 6:13pm:

bobbythefap1 wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 6:11pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 5:58pm:

By men who shave their legs?

Tour de France?

Yes, that must be why they do it, the chafing.

That must be why priests have loose fitting robes.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by .Annie. on Jul 4^th, 2012 at 4:18pm

Soren wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 2:25pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 12:13pm:

Quote:

You look at the peasant faces of the Al Hilalis and Trads and all the other Muslims with the low brow and jutting jaw and fat lips, hair (animalistic hair and hair fetish everywhere)

Your pudgy little pink fingers could barely contain the nervous tremor.

Does that avatar make you feel more masculine, oh Mighty Son of Odin?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 4^th, 2012 at 8:39pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jul 4^th, 2012 at 4:18pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 2:25pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 12:13pm:

Quote:

You look at the peasant faces of the Al Hilalis and Trads and all the other Muslims with the low brow and jutting jaw and fat lips, hair (animalistic hair and hair fetish everywhere)

Your pudgy little pink fingers could barely contain the nervous tremor.

Does that avatar make you feel more masculine, oh Mighty Son of Odin?

;D ;D ;D

I shave. Do you?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by adamant on Jul 4^th, 2012 at 9:02pm

Here we go! here we go we go again! here we go we go we go AGAIN! :o :o :o

Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29

2012.07.03 (Diwaniya, Iraq) - Sunnis set off a powerful bomb near a Shiite mosque, taking down at least forty Religion of Peace rivals.
2012.07.03 (Karbalah, Iraq) - Eight Shiite worshippers are sent straght to Allah by Sunni bombers at a vegetable market.
2012.07.03 (Yala, Thailand) - A 49-year-old Buddhist is dismantled by Muslim bombers while on his way home.
2012.07.02 (Kandahar, Afghanistan) - A Shahid suicide bomber detonates near the entrance of a university, killing seven students and staff.
2012.07.01 (Maiduguri, Nigeria) - Nine Christian construction workers have their throats cut by Islamists in a 'gruesome' killing.
2012.07.01 (Garissa, Kenya) - Muslims throw grenades into two churches and then shoot fleeing Christians. Some eighteen die in the massacre, including three children..

* Sources for individual incidents can be provided upon request.

Is there another religion that professes to be so pure and profound in thought and deed, that contributes so little to humankind in today's world other than islam?

Monthly Jihad Report
June, 2012 Jihad Attacks: 192

Countries: 24

Religions: 5

Dead Bodies: 1173

Critically Injured: 2266

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

1173 dead, killed by themselves, no outside help, no outside provocation, no excuse, just bloody drongo muslim killers!

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 7:38am

Adamant wrote on Jul 4^th, 2012 at 9:02pm:

"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29

This translation is false. If you cannot provide a proper translation, then please refrain from quoting the Qur'an. There is no English translation that renders the word as ruthless, since that is not what it means. It means strong.

Adamant wrote on Jul 4^th, 2012 at 9:02pm:

2012.07.03 (Diwaniya, Iraq) - Sunnis set off a powerful bomb near a Shiite mosque, taking down at least forty Religion of Peace rivals.
2012.07.03 (Karbalah, Iraq) - Eight Shiite worshippers are sent straght to Allah by Sunni bombers at a vegetable market.
2012.07.03 (Yala, Thailand) - A 49-year-old Buddhist is dismantled by Muslim bombers while on his way home.
2012.07.02 (Kandahar, Afghanistan) - A Shahid suicide bomber detonates near the entrance of a university, killing seven students and staff.
2012.07.01 (Maiduguri, Nigeria) - Nine Christian construction workers have their throats cut by Islamists in a 'gruesome' killing.
2012.07.01 (Garissa, Kenya) - Muslims throw grenades into two churches and then shoot fleeing Christians. Some eighteen die in the massacre, including three children..

Not tired yet of posting out of context claims about Muslims? If you're going to quote these incidents, please do provide the sources, and please do provide some evidence that they acted on the basis of their religious affiliation, otherwise, please don't post it.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by MOTR on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 7:45am

Surely "but merciful" means you are not required to be merciful to the other mob?

What does "strong" mean to you?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 11:19am

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 7:38am:

There you go, context:

2012.07.03 (Diwaniya, Iraq) - Sunnis set off a powerful bomb near a Shiite mosque, taking down at least forty Religion of Peace rivals.
"Initial investigations show that today's bombs bear the fingerprints of al Qaeda terrorist group," Salim Hussain, governor of Diwaniya, told Iraqiya state television.
Iraq's al Qaeda wing has claimed responsibility for some of the recent bombings against Shi'ites.
Last month at least 237 people were killed and 603 wounded in attacks, mainly bombings, according to a Reuters tally, making June one of the bloodiest months in Iraq since U.S. troops withdrew at the end of last year.
The deadliest attack occurred on June 13 when bombers targeting Shi'ite pilgrims killed more than 70 people.
Sunni insurgents often attack Shi'ite targets to try to reignite sectarian violence that killed tens of thousands of people in 2006-2007.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/03/us-iraq-violence-idUSBRE86209620120703

2012.07.03 (Karbalah, Iraq) - Eight Shiite worshippers are sent straght to Allah by Sunni bombers at a vegetable market.
A series of bomb blasts killed at least 37 people across Iraq on Tuesday, including 30 in an explosion at a vegetable market in Diwaniya, police officials said.
In that attack, some 99 miles (160 kilometers) south of Baghdad, a suicide bomber parked a truck packed with explosives concealed by watermelons and began calling shoppers to the truck. He then detonated the bomb, killing 30 and wounding 100, according to police.
The bombing in the largely Shiite city was among a series of attacks across Iraq, including a car-bomb attack in an outdoor market in Karbala, killing four people and wounding 30 others, according to Haider Jaber Jasim in the Karbala governor's office
http://articles.cnn.com/2012-07-03/middleeast/world_meast_iraq-violence_1_iraqi-police-checkpoint-iraq-s-interior-ministry-karbala?_s=PM:MIDDLEEAST

2012.07.03 (Yala, Thailand) - A 49-year-old Buddhist is dismantled by Muslim bombers while on his way home.
YALA, July 3 - An assistant village head was killed as bomb exploded when his car passed over a buried bomb in this restive southern province on Tuesday afternoon.
The victim was identified as Marammuelee Eyuno, 49, assistant head of Buemang village. He was returning home after a meeting at the Raman district office.
His pick-up truck was demolished by a homemade bomb estimated to contain 10 kg of explosives in a gas cylinder buried under the road surface.
Police rushed to the scene to collect evidence for further investigation.
Since the unrest erupted in the southern provinces of Yala, Pattani and Narathiwat over eight years ago, over 5,000 people, including civilians, soldiers, government officials and insurgents have died in the ongoing violence.
http://www.pattaya-addicts.com/forum/topic/109364-local-official-killed-in-yala-bombing/#

2012.07.02 (Kandahar, Afghanistan) - A Shahid suicide bomber detonates near the entrance of a university, killing seven students and staff.
Kandahar was the birthplace of the extremist Taliban regime which ruled Afghanistan from 1996 until it was deposed by a US-led invasion in 2001.
It remains one of the hotbeds of the decade-long insurgency against the Western-backed government of President Hamid Karzai.
NATO and Afghan forces are the main targets for the militants, whose tactics frequently include suicide attacks, but local civilians working for the coalition are also targeted.
Two weeks ago Taliban attackers stormed two Afghan-NATO bases in Kandahar province, killing four police officers.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/exploding-car-rams-afghan-minivan/story-fnd134gw-1226415174194

2012.07.01 (Maiduguri, Nigeria) - Nine Christian construction workers have their throats cut by Islamists in a 'gruesome' killing.
Militant sect Boko Haram launched its revolt in Maiduguri in 2009 and has killed hundreds of people in bombing raids and other attacks in the surrounding region and across the country.
The movement says it is fighting to carve out an Islamic state in parts of Nigeria, Africa's most populous nation split roughly equally between Christians and Muslims.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/02/us-nigeria-violence-idUSBRE8610VW20120702

2012.07.01 (Garissa, Kenya) - Muslims throw grenades into two churches and then shoot fleeing Christians. Some eighteen die in the massacre, including three children..
The police were guarding the church because of the increasingly dangerous security situation near the border with Somalia and because Somalia's Islamist militants have made Christian churches a common target.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/01/kenya-church-attacks_n_1641108.html

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by falah on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 12:05pm

Christian Militants Kill 18 Muslim Civilians in Afghanistan - 7 June 2012

Christian Militants Kill 3 Civilians in Afghanistan - 2 July 2012

Christian Militants Bomb City In Somalia - 7 June 2012
Buddhists continue rampage against Burmese Muslims - 2 July 2012

Christian Invasion of Afghanistan Has Killed 8000 Civilians - 10 june 2012

UN Investigator Condemns Christian Use of Killer Drones - 19 June 2012

Buddhists Terrorise Muslims in Burma - July 3, 2012

Muslims in Burma face 'some of worst discrimination in world', abused by Buddhist military - 4 Jul 2012

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 2:36pm

NATO is Christian militants?

You are completelt riddled with this religious mania.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 2:41pm

Well its akin to calling all muslims terrorists isnt it.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 9:36pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 2:41pm:

Well its akin to calling all muslims terrorists isnt it.

SOB

And as stupid.
No - even more stupid.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 9:39pm

The difference being of course that no-one here has actually said that all Muslims are terrorists.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by adamant on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 10:43pm

Spot said duhhh

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 10:57pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 2:41pm:

Well its akin to calling all muslims terrorists isnt it.

SOB

Or like calling you an idiot - it may very well be a truth universally recognised, but still, it must not be said out loud.

I am talking of a hypothetical analogy, of course, not you, SOB. You are of course not a universally recognised idiot. Or not recognised universally - I forget which you aren't or are. Neither, probably.

.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by adamant on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 11:06pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 7:38am:

Adamant wrote on Jul 4^th, 2012 at 9:02pm:

"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29

What is this Abu a bit of righteous indignation spilling out?

Are you getting pissed off at what the ummah is capable of?

Is it that the truth hurts?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 7:08am

Soren wrote on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 2:36pm:

NATO is Christian militants?

You are completelt riddled with this religious mania.

Well if a bomb in a Shi'ite neighbourhood of Baghdad _must_ be Sunni Muslim Insurgents, then sure, NATO = Christian militants.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 7:14am

MOTR wrote on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 7:45am:

Surely "but merciful" means you are not required to be merciful to the other mob?

What does "strong" mean to you?

It means to stand firm against them, not to submit to their aggressions and to ensure one has the upper hand.

Quite obviously, non-Muslims, have, since the day the fledgling Muslim community came into existence been generally hostile towards it. There have been rare cases where this wasn't the case, like the Abyssinians who sheltered them, but generally it's the case, and quite clearly today. And so Islam prepares Muslims for this reality, by instructing them to stand firm against this hostility. Quite sound advice if you ask me.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by MOTR on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 7:18am

Do some Muslims interpret this incorrectly?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 7:19am

Soren wrote on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 11:19am:

There you go, context:

That is not context. By context I meant showing the events that preceded it.

Soren wrote on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 11:19am:

2012.07.03 (Diwaniya, Iraq) - Sunnis set off a powerful bomb near a Shiite mosque, taking down at least forty Religion of Peace rivals.
"Initial investigations show that today's bombs bear the fingerprints of al Qaeda terrorist group," Salim Hussain, governor of Diwaniya, told Iraqiya state television.

Does he literally mean fingerprints? Of every single member of the group? Or does he mean "we want to blame them, so we'll just vaguely claim this looks like their work"?

Soren wrote on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 11:19am:

Iraq's al Qaeda wing has claimed responsibility for some of the recent bombings against Shi'ites.

More of this ambiguous newsspeak. No actual claim or evidence about the specific incident, just references to past events, which themselves are to remain unscrutinised, as they are just as vaguely referenced.

Nice work soren, my mind feels at rest now.

The rest of your "references" are just as "sound" as this one.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 7:22am

MOTR wrote on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 7:18am:

Do some Muslims interpret this incorrectly?

MOTR,

I'm sure some people of all persuasions interpret things incorrectly, and act accordingly. That's certainly not particular to this passage, nor to Islam, nor to religions, that's just a fact of human nature.

But I think most of the people interpreting it incorrectly, are those replacing the word "strong" with "ruthless", and I can assure you, no Muslim makes such an inaccurate replacement.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 7:24am

Soren wrote on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 10:57pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 2:41pm:

Well its akin to calling all muslims terrorists isnt it.

SOB

Obviously you cant form a coherent thought.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by MOTR on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 7:34am

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 7:22am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 7:18am:

Do some Muslims interpret this incorrectly?

I'm still struggling with the juxtaposition between unbelievers and followers of Mohammed. What are the preceding lines?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 12:22pm

Abu does it really seem that unlikely to you that Sunni's are responsible for bombing Shite mosques?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 6:44pm

MOTR wrote on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 7:34am:

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 7:22am:

MOTR wrote on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 7:18am:

Do some Muslims interpret this incorrectly?

I'm still struggling with the juxtaposition between unbelievers and followers of Mohammed. What are the preceding lines?

This is the verse with it's preceding few verses. To provide some context, the Pagan Arabs in Makkah had deprived Muslims of visiting Makkah and making Hajj to the Ka'abah (the Sacred Mosque). The Muslims were weak and defeated at this time, and were expelled from Makkah. So the verses are encouraging them to stand strong against their oppressors.

48:27 Truly did Allah fulfil the vision for His Messenger: ye shall enter the Sacred Mosque, if Allah wills, with minds secure, heads shaved, hair cut short, and without fear. For He knew what ye knew not, and He granted, besides this, a speedy victory.

48:28 It is He Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion: and enough is Allah for a Witness.

48:29 Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 6:45pm

freediver wrote on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 12:22pm:

Abu does it really seem that unlikely to you that Sunni's are responsible for bombing Shite mosques?

Likely or unlikely is not the basis for proclaiming someone committed an act.

Please stick to the facts, not what you think to be likely or unlikely.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 8:24pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 7:19am:

Soren wrote on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 11:19am:

There you go, context:

That is not context. By context I meant showing the events that preceded it.

Soren wrote on Jul 5^th, 2012 at 11:19am:

Iraq's al Qaeda wing has claimed responsibility for some of the recent bombings against Shi'ites.

Yay!!

There is NO jihad. There is NO Muslim religious violence. And if there is, it's ALL GOOD!!

YAY!!

Everyone - ululate!!

WHATEVER is done in the name of Islam MUST BE GOOD!!

Or I keeel you!!!

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 9:00pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 12:22pm:

Abu does it really seem that unlikely to you that Sunni's are responsible for bombing Shite mosques?

Likely or unlikely is not the basis for proclaiming someone committed an act.

Please stick to the facts, not what you think to be likely or unlikely.

They didn't accuse a specific person Abu. Are you suggesting that you don't have doubts about whether a Sunni bombed the Shite Mosque, but you expect detailed records of who committed each specific Islamic terrorist attack?

Would you get so hung up on the evidence if people started accusing the catholics and protestants of Northern Ireland of bombing each other?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 9:27pm

freediver wrote on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 9:00pm:

They didn't accuse a specific person Abu.

Right... so instead of accusing/slandering one person, they've slandered over a billion, yeh that's much better.

freediver wrote on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 9:00pm:

Are you suggesting that you don't have doubts about whether a Sunni bombed the Shite Mosque, but you expect detailed records of who committed each specific Islamic terrorist attack?

I haven't had any thoughts about it at all, let alone the particular beliefs of the one who did it.

freediver wrote on Jul 6^th, 2012 at 9:00pm:

Would you get so hung up on the evidence if people started accusing the catholics and protestants of Northern Ireland of bombing each other?

I certainly wouldn't be positing it all over the place, proclaiming who did what based on such conjecture and hearsay.

I guess some of us have standards though.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by falah on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 1:04am

Jews bomb Gaza kills 6 year-old, wounds baby

Jews shoot farmer

Woman dies at jewish blockade

jews bomb 3 people to death

Jews killed 67 Palestinians including 4 women and 16 children so far in 2012

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 3:02pm

Quote:

Right... so instead of accusing/slandering one person, they've slandered over a billion, yeh that's much better.

There are a billion members of Al Quaida?

Quote:

I certainly wouldn't be positing it all over the place, proclaiming who did what based on such conjecture and hearsay

That is about all you and Falah do - that and trying to rewrite history.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by .Annie. on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 4:28pm

Soren wrote on Jul 4^th, 2012 at 8:39pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jul 4^th, 2012 at 4:18pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 2:25pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 12:13pm:

Quote:

You look at the peasant faces of the Al Hilalis and Trads and all the other Muslims with the low brow and jutting jaw and fat lips, hair (animalistic hair and hair fetish everywhere)

Your pudgy little pink fingers could barely contain the nervous tremor.

Does that avatar make you feel more masculine, oh Mighty Son of Odin?

;D ;D ;D

I shave. Do you?

I wax. You should try it.

Get yourself a Brazilian.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by falah on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 6:00pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 12:13pm:

Quote:

You look at the peasant faces of the Al Hilalis and Trads and all the other Muslims with the low brow and jutting jaw and fat lips, hair (animalistic hair and hair fetish everywhere)

I think that we can safely assume by the amount of fear in Sore One's posts that he looks more like this than his avatar:

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:40pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 4:28pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 4^th, 2012 at 8:39pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jul 4^th, 2012 at 4:18pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 2:25pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 12:13pm:

Quote:

You look at the peasant faces of the Al Hilalis and Trads and all the other Muslims with the low brow and jutting jaw and fat lips, hair (animalistic hair and hair fetish everywhere)

Your pudgy little pink fingers could barely contain the nervous tremor.

Does that avatar make you feel more masculine, oh Mighty Son of Odin?

;D ;D ;D

I shave. Do you?

I wax. You should try it.

Get yourself a Brazilian.

Sorry, love, I am not hirsute enough to need to wax like you do.
It must hurt. Poor girl.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 10:47pm

falah wrote on Jul 7^th, 2012 at 6:00pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Jul 1^st, 2012 at 12:13pm:

Quote:

You look at the peasant faces of the Al Hilalis and Trads and all the other Muslims with the low brow and jutting jaw and fat lips, hair (animalistic hair and hair fetish everywhere)

I think that we can safely assume by the amount of fear in Sore One's posts that he looks more like this than his avatar:

Well, I am not a Muslim, so I'll always be ahead of you ( and Missy Mediterreanean Hair), no matter what.

Nothing can be as embarrassing as being a grown man (or woman like Miss Waxengrin) and be a devoted Muslim. That's like saying. 'Hey. look, I'm completely, way off the planet - and grow devotional hair!!! YAY!!"

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by adamant on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 1:19am

Interesting article on the spread of a cult called islam.

http://econwarfare.org/viewarticle.cfm?id=3773

Well worth a read!

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 9:18am

Are you on crack or something?

This says far more about Western governments like the U.S who supported this brutal dictator throughout his entire rule (as he was a staunch anti-Communist).

You honestly have no political awareness at all do you? You merely see "muslims" and "scam" in the same article, and you post away thinking you're onto something. Don't you feel even a little embarrassed about being such a stooge?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 9:54am

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 9:18am:

Abu, you and falah have been the representative Muslims on this forum and have your own section, this one, called "Islam'.

And the overwhelming majority of your posts and your entire 'Muslim outlook' is political. Insofar as you have any religious over- or undertones, it is entirely about the geo-political aims of Islamism - furthering and defending the spread of Islamism.

You both confirm with all your utterances that at its heart Islam is about politics, a particularly ugly, oppressive, unfree, kind of politics. This goes for local an global issues. The Islamic voice means the voice of subjugation and paranoid fanaticism.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by adamant on Jul 9^th, 2012 at 3:03pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 8^th, 2012 at 9:18am:

Crack? Is that what you shove up your nose in copious quantities so you can see your god on a Friday frenzy just before you stick your arse in the air. Was Waheed Ali ( our tame muslim ) on crack when he asked the Bro's how to get out of jury service because he though Friday prayers was more important than justice, no wonder the dropkick does not practice law any more. A man would have to be a moron to engage him as a solicitor.

Or is this the crack you are on about, the one that all muslims appear to be so fond of.

[img]C:\Users\user\Desktop\Taliban-women.jpg[/img]

I can tell from your response you did not read the article past about the first paragraph, so I will end it with-:

Black Ops/Flag, what happened to them all, did they snort so much that they all went of like puff the magic dragon and end up on the steps of Kryal Castle?

Taliban-women.jpg (24 KB | 36 )

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 9^th, 2012 at 5:22pm

Adamant wrote on Jul 9^th, 2012 at 3:03pm:

Was Waheed Ali ( our tame muslim ) on crack when he asked the Bro's how to get out of jury service because he though Friday prayers was more important than justice, no wonder the dropkick does not practice law any more. A man would have to be a moron to engage him as a solicitor.

Or is this the crack you are on about, the one that all muslims appear to be so fond of.

Mercifully, he has been given an ABC Radio National wireless program so his potential audience has been severly restricted to retired school teachers, librarians and Mrs Carruthers - you know, people who listen to Philip Adams if they can't go to sleep any other way.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 12:03am

Adamant wrote on Jul 9^th, 2012 at 3:03pm:

......Was Waheed Ali ( our tame muslim ) on crack when he asked the Bro's how to get out of jury service because he though Friday prayers was more important than justice, no wonder the dropkick does not practice law any more. A man would have to be a moron to engage him as a solicitor.

This demonstrates yet again, that a person who declares;

"I am a moslem."

.....is a moslem.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MODERATE ISLAM, .....OR, A MODERATE MOSLEM.

ISLAM divides mankind into only two groups; moslems, and infidels.

A moslem, is a person who has chosen to embrace ISLAM, all of its tenets, and all of its laws.

'because.....Friday prayers was more important than justice,'

A moslem, is a person who gives his allegiance, exclusively, to the ummah [the worldwide moslem community], AND TO ISLAM'S CAUSE, OF SEEKING TO DESTROY LOCAL LAWS AND LOCAL SOCIETAL INSTITUTIONS, AND IN THEIR PLACE, FORCING THE ADOPTION OF ISLAM's LAW, UPON THE WHOLE WORLD.

+++

Australian Islamic leader defends jihad.
".....Abu Bakr says he does not accept other religions.
"I am telling you that my religion doesn't tolerate other religion. It doesn't tolerate," he said.
"The only one law which needs to spread, it can be here or anywhere else, is Islam." "
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200508/s1430551.htm

n.b.

"The only one law which needs to spread, it can be here or anywhere else, is Islam."

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 12:07am

Yadda wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 12:03am:

n.b.
"The only one law which needs to spread, it can be here or anywhere else, is Islam."

And the West doesn't believe their laws and values are the only universal truth?

Stop being such a blatant hypocrite for a moment Yadda to examine yourself more carefully.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 12:13am

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 12:07am:

Yadda wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 12:03am:

n.b.
"The only one law which needs to spread, it can be here or anywhere else, is Islam."

And the West doesn't believe their laws and values are the only universal truth?

Stop being such a blatant hypocrite for a moment Yadda to examine yourself more carefully.

Abu,

You are correct, we [the 'West'] are corrupt, we are hypocrites.

But many of us don't want to exchange one error, for a much worse error, .....ISLAM.

Because ISLAM too, is corrupt, and moslems too, are liars and hypocrites.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 8:17am

Quote:

And the West doesn't believe their laws and values are the only universal truth?

Obviously not, otherwise we wouldn't put so much effort into changing our laws.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 10:53pm

freediver wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 8:17am:

Quote:

And the West doesn't believe their laws and values are the only universal truth?

Obviously not, otherwise we wouldn't put so much effort into changing our laws.

Western laws are dynamic, they shift and change with the wind, and the possibility of a profit.

But whatever they happen to be at the time, they are indeed shoved into other peoples faces, often with some very heavy artillery to back them up.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 10:54pm

Anyway, regarding the execution of that woman, the Taliban have denied any connection to it:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120710/NATION/207100336/1020/nation/Afghan-woman-shot-dead-video

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 11^th, 2012 at 9:04am

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 10:53pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 8:17am:

Quote:

And the West doesn't believe their laws and values are the only universal truth?

Obviously not, otherwise we wouldn't put so much effort into changing our laws.

Western laws are dynamic, they shift and change with the wind, and the possibility of a profit.

That was a remarkable turnaround, from universal truth to shifting and changing with the wind, in a single post. Anyone would think you care more about the spin than the facts.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 11^th, 2012 at 9:35pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 10:54pm:

Anyway, regarding the execution of that woman, the Taliban have denied any connection to it:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120710/NATION/207100336/1020/nation/Afghan-woman-shot-dead-video

Which is 'proof' of, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

As i have stated previously on OzPol, if a moslem assured me that that bright thing in the sky, was the sun,
.....I WOULD SEEK A 2ND OPINION.i
Hey Abu, was Abraham a moslem, too ??? [ <--- another claim, made by moslems]

What about king David, and king Solomon ???

What about Jesus, was Jesus a moslem too ???

......The moslem 'Jesus', WHO, ACCORDING TO THE KORAN, WAS NOT CRUCIFIED, AND WHO's 'FUNCTION' ACCORDING TO ISLAM, IS TO ONE DAY RETURN TO EARTH SO AS TO KILL ALL CHRISTIANS, FOR THEIR REJECTION OF ISLAM ???

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 11^th, 2012 at 10:08pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 10:53pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 10^th, 2012 at 8:17am:

Quote:

And the West doesn't believe their laws and values are the only universal truth?

Obviously not, otherwise we wouldn't put so much effort into changing our laws.

Not at all. If Afghanistan had been content with remaining an irrelevant backwater, it could still be an irrelevant backwater, like most of the rest of the 'Muslim lands'.

But it took upon itself to to train and shelter people who attacked and damaged the West, especially the US. And then they were adamant to shelter the very people who attacked the US.

In other words, in the good old Barbary Pirates tradition, the goddam Musulmans can't keep their dusty d!cks in their culottes but have to come out and waive them around like a bunch of loonies. So their goddam turbans gets kicked in.

ANd then you, the spokesman for every Muslim bully, come along and start kvetching about how your bloody turban is ruined and how that's everyone else's fault but never yours. How pathetic. Typical stupid bully bully behaviour:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaV9PJultl4

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 2:27am

Soren wrote on Jul 11^th, 2012 at 10:08pm:

Not at all. If Afghanistan had been content with remaining an irrelevant backwater, it could still be an irrelevant backwater, like most of the rest of the 'Muslim lands'.

Come on enough with the self delusional jibberish soren. The West have been invading Afghanistan since the time of Alexander, and probably beyond. In the past century or two, the Brits have been there several times, long before they supposedly "sheltered the enemies of America". That's just garbage and I suspect you know it.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 8:21am

It was an irrelevant backwater back then too.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 9:59am

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 2:27am:

Soren wrote on Jul 11^th, 2012 at 10:08pm:

Not at all. If Afghanistan had been content with remaining an irrelevant backwater, it could still be an irrelevant backwater, like most of the rest of the 'Muslim lands'.

Conveniently and deliberately (as usual) you omit the most significant foreign invasion of Afghanistan.

'ello, 'ello, 'ello, what's this then?

"During the 7th century AD, Arab armies made their way into the region of Afghanistan with the new religion of Islam. At this point in time Afghanistan had a multi religious population consisting of Buddhists, Zoroastrians, Hindus, as well as others. The Arabs were unable to succeed in converting the population because of constant revolts from the mountain tribes in the Afghan area."

Those Muslim Arab armies, eh? must have been Western puppets. Muslims do bad things only when they are Western puppets.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 8:27pm

Soren wrote on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 9:59am:

Conveniently and deliberately (as usual) you omit the most significant foreign invasion of Afghanistan.

The people adopted Islam and have been Muslims ever since. The only ideology ever to conquer Afghanistan, because Islam conquers hearts and minds, unlike the Western ideologies which only succeed in temporarily subduing their victims.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 8:42pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 8:27pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 9:59am:

Conveniently and deliberately (as usual) you omit the most significant foreign invasion of Afghanistan.

Yeah.

It took them 200 of years to win those hearts and minds, coz the ingrates kept revolting:

During the 7th century AD, Arab armies made their way into the region of Afghanistan with the new religion of Islam. At this point in time Afghanistan had a multi religious population consisting of Buddhists, Zoroastrians, Hindus, as well as others. The Arabs were unable to succeed in converting the population because of constant revolts from the mountain tribes in the Afghan area. In 870 AD, Yaqub bin Laith as-Saffar, a local ruler from the Saffarid dynasty of Zaranj, conquered most of present-day Afghanistan in the name of Islam.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 9:34pm

Quote:

conquered most of present-day Afghanistan in the name of Islam

With his heart? Or with his mind?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 9:36pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INll6Y5iqbM

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 9:40pm

Soren wrote on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 9:36pm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INll6Y5iqbM

The more Muslims there are in a society, the less safe it is for gays, women, Jews, people who want freedom of religion, speech, conscience, press etc.

People who support such a completely insensitive and intolerant and violent religion as Islam should be given LESS consideration, not more. Is that trampling on their democratic rights?

They are against everyone else's democratic rights.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 13^th, 2012 at 7:30am

Soren wrote on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 8:42pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 8:27pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 9:59am:

Conveniently and deliberately (as usual) you omit the most significant foreign invasion of Afghanistan.

And you're envious aren't you? In fact this is what all your anti-Islamic drivel stems from I think. You are envious of the fact Islam barely has to try and people are flocking to it, whilst your own ideology/belief system forces itself upon people everywhere, and they bitterly reject it.

Even in its most declined state, Islam still trumps your pathetic democratic secularism at its apex of power. And that rains on your little party doesn't it?

You remind me of the Mongols, you remember those people who conquered almost the entire Islamic world, only to be defeated within a generation or two by their own people from within, adopting Islam. That is your fate Genghis.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 13^th, 2012 at 3:11pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 13^th, 2012 at 7:30am:

Soren wrote on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 8:42pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 8:27pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 12^th, 2012 at 9:59am:

Conveniently and deliberately (as usual) you omit the most significant foreign invasion of Afghanistan.

It took them 200 years to subjugate the Afghans. Not exactly fast.

As for the glorious defeat of the Tartars and the spread of the Ottoman Empire - where are they now? Nowhere.
Where is Islam's glorious revival? Nowhere. You are tripping about what happened 700 years ago and think that the glory from way back then will reflect on you. It doesn't.

Islam today is backward and a recipe for backwardness everywhere in the world. As you keep telling us, there isn't a single Islamic country in the world.

Breeding fast is all you've got. Rabbits breed faster but they are not taking over. And you won't either. You need something more than numbers.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 13^th, 2012 at 3:26pm

We should suppress the religions. Stop all extremists from practising in our society. That is xtian as well as muslim. Can you imagine if westboro baptist church and the like gets too big? The way to stop the extremists imo is education. As long as everyone is forced to get a decent education (without religion) grounded in how to think instead of what to think then the extremists should die out.

Muslim kids in australia have to go to school. Do we teach them science and math? Wow. I wonder if thats why they arent such a problem here? They know better. Unlike in countries where they have no education just religion.

the countries with majority muslims that have decent education dont seem to have the violence actually. Go figger.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 13^th, 2012 at 10:31pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 13^th, 2012 at 3:26pm:

We should suppress the religions. Stop all extremists from practising in our society. That is xtian as well as muslim. Can you imagine if westboro baptist church and the like gets too big? The way to stop the extremists imo is education. As long as everyone is forced to get a decent education (without religion) grounded in how to think instead of what to think then the extremists should die out.

#1,
Muslim kids in australia have to go to school. Do we teach them science and math? Wow.

I wonder if thats why they arent such a problem here?

They know better. Unlike in countries where they have no education just religion.

#2,
the countries with majority muslims that have decent education dont seem to have the violence actually.

Go figger.

SOB

spot,

As per usual you are talking unsubstantiated shite.

What a lot of absolute untruth and lies you always speak.

#1,
Google;
aussie muslim convicted terrorism

Most moslem kids in Australia go to ISLAMIC schools, where they are taught ISLAMIC/KORANIC principles.
e.g. HATRED OF NON-MOSLEMS ['unbelievers'].

#2,
Name one moslem majority country that has,
1/ 'decent education',
AND,
2/ doesn't have incidents of ISLAMIC violence [directed towards minorities].

+++

A $29 MILLION GIFT FROM AUSTRALIA, TOWARDS THE ISLAMIC JIHAD.
....why are we so, so, dumb????

Australia unveils Islamic schools for Indon
Aug 2, 2007
Australia's ambassador to Indonesia and the secretary-general of the Indonesian Ministry for Religious Affairs have opened 46 new Islamic schools as part of a $29 million gift from Australia.
Work on **another 255** of the schools, known as madrasahs, will start in a few weeks.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/08/02/1994501.htm?

duh! duh! duh!

And where do those Islamic schools in Indonesia get their texts books to teach their children?
....Saudi Arabia.

Google,
Islamic schools in Indonesia Saudi texts books

MORE....

'MULTICULTURALISM', SAUDI ARABIA STYLE...

July 16, 2008
While Saudi king promotes interfaith dialogue, Saudi textbooks still teach hatred and intolerance of everything -- and everyone -- non-Islamic
....They assert that unbelievers, such as Christians, Jews, and Muslims who do not share Wahhabi beliefs and practices, are hated "enemies."
....They teach that it is permissible for a Muslim to kill an "apostate," an "adulterer," and those practicing "major polytheism."
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/021790.php

MORE.....

"Saudis continue "reaching out" to Jews and Christians, while simultaneously teaching their children to hate those same Jews and Christians"
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/07/saudis-continue-reaching-out-to-jews-and-christians-while-simultaneously-teaching-their-children-to.html

Quote:

...Here, for example, is a multiple-choice question from a recent edition of a Saudi fourth-grade textbook, "Monotheism and Jurisprudence," in a section that attempts to teach children to distinguish between "true" and "false" belief in God:

Q. "Is belief true in the following instances:

(a) A man prays but hates those who are virtuous.

(b) A man professes that there is no deity other than God but loves the unbelievers.

(c) A man worships God alone, loves the believers, and hates the unbelievers."

The correct answer, of course, is (c): According to the Wahhabi imams who wrote this textbook, it isn't enough to simply worship God or just to love other believers; it is important to hate unbelievers, too. By the same token, (b) is wrong as well: Even a man who worships God cannot be said to have "true belief" if he also loves unbelievers.

"Unbelievers," in this context, are Christians and Jews. In fact, any child who attends Saudi schools until ninth grade will eventually be taught outright that "Jews and Christians are enemies of believers."

i

Hey spot,

Muslim kids in australia have to go to school......we teach them science and math.
......thats why they arent such a problem here.

Unsubstantiated twaddle.

"...quack, quack!"

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 13^th, 2012 at 10:36pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 13^th, 2012 at 3:26pm:

The way to stop the extremists imo is education. As long as everyone is forced to get a decent education (without religion) grounded in how to think instead of what to think then the extremists should die out.

the countries with majority muslims that have decent education dont seem to have the violence actually. Go figger.

SOB

The pilot of the first plane to hit the World Trade Center, Atta, came from "an ambitious, not overtly religious middle-class household in Egypt" and had led "a sheltered life" until he arrived in Hamburg, Germany, in 1992 to do graduate study in architecture.

The pilot of the second plane, Marwan al-Shehhi, was an amiable, "laid-back" fellow from the United Arab Emirates who had joined the UAE army, "not the world's most effective fighting force but one of its most generous, paying [its scholarship] students monthly stipends of about $2,000," which may have been his primary reason for enlisting; this enabled him to go to Hamburg, though there is little evidence that he "had any serious scholarly ambitions."

Hani Hanjour, the Saudi pilot who flew American Airlines flight 77 into the Pentagon, "had lived in the United States off and on throughout the 1990s, mostly in Arizona, intermittently taking flying lessons at several different flying schools." He was, in the view of one of his flight instructors, "intelligent, friendly, and 'very courteous, very formal,' a nice enough fellow but a terrible pilot." He finally got a commercial license from the FAA but was unable to find work here or in the Middle East.

As for Ziad Jarrah, the pilot of the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania, he was "the handsome middle child and only son of an industrious, middle-class family in Beirut," a "secular Muslim" family that "was easygoing -- the men drank whiskey and the women wore short skirts about town and bikinis at the beach." At university in Germany he met Aysel Sengün, "the daughter of conservative, working-class Turkish immigrants"; eventually they got married, but he disappeared for long periods, usually without explanation, leaving her frantic.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/28/AR2005042801315.html

Education, eh? Why don't you go and get one, mother?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 13^th, 2012 at 10:55pm

Yadda wrote on Jul 13^th, 2012 at 10:31pm:

Hey spot,

Muslim kids in australia have to go to school......we teach them science and math.
......thats why they arent such a problem here.

Unsubstantiated twaddle.

"...quack, quack!"

Hey spot,
If many moslem kids in Australia go to ISLAMIC schools, which always teach, as part of their curricular, ISLAMIC/KORANIC principles [e.g. TO DESPISE AND HATE NON-MOSLEMS ['unbelievers'] AND OUR un-ISLAMIC CULTURE],
how is that in any way 'positive' for the Australian community, which is hosting the moslem community ???

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 14^th, 2012 at 8:55am

Quote:

Muslim kids in australia have to go to school. Do we teach them science and math? Wow. I wonder if thats why they arent such a problem here? They know better. Unlike in countries where they have no education just religion.

Not quite. We have had a few home grown terrorists, and a decent education did not stop Abu and Falah wanting to stone people to death. In the UK where Islamic violence is a bigger problem, there are people who fled violence in the middle east. These are people who personally reject violence, but they raised their kids as Muslims and those kids, despite the decent education, now want to import the violence from the homeland.

Quote:

the countries with majority muslims that have decent education dont seem to have the violence actually. Go figger.

Are you trying to say that it is hard to get a decent education when there is a war going on? Perhaps you need to do some more figgering. You should start with the difference between correlation and causation.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 14^th, 2012 at 9:49am

Quote:

Abu and Falah dont stone ppl though because they would be dealt with if they did.

Family first wanted to burn lesbians too but they cant because they will go to jail if they do.

Quote:

I dont see what your question means in relation to what I said. Nothing unusual there though - misrepresenting again?
Prolly - i couldn't be bothered figgering it out. I didnt mention war in that quote.

Quote:

Really? How do you know this? Have you got some evidence?

BTW any private school in australia has to teach core subjects approved by the state.

Quote:

Unsubstantiated twaddle.

What a brilliant argument.

Quote:

What a lot of absolute untruth and lies you always speak.

Why cant you have a decent conversation instead of all this stupid name calling?

Quote:

Name one moslem majority country that has,
1/ 'decent education',

Malaysia

Indonesia is improving with better education too.

Quote:

2/ doesn't have incidents of ISLAMIC violence [directed towards minorities].

Everywhere has occasional violence towards minorities.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 14^th, 2012 at 10:44am

Quote:

Family first wanted to burn lesbians too but they cant because they will go to jail if they do.

;D

Quote:

Prolly - i couldn't be bothered figgering it out. I didnt mention war in that quote.

You did mention violence. Are you suggesting there are no muggings or extremist Muslims in Muslim countries that have a decent education?

Quote:

Malaysia

Indonesia is improving with better education too.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 16^th, 2012 at 12:08am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 14^th, 2012 at 9:49am:

Quote:

Name one moslem majority country that has,
1/ 'decent education',

Malaysia

Indonesia is improving with better education too.

[quote]2/ doesn't have incidents of ISLAMIC violence [directed towards minorities].

Everywhere has occasional violence towards minorities.

SOB[/quote]

Hey spot,

AGAIN.....

Quote:

As per usual you are talking unsubstantiated shite.

What a lot of absolute untruth and lies you always speak......

Unsubstantiated twaddle.[/size]

"...quack, quack!"

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 16^th, 2012 at 11:21am

Yadda wrote on Jul 13^th, 2012 at 10:31pm:

Most moslem kids in Australia go to ISLAMIC schools, where they are taught ISLAMIC/KORANIC principles.
e.g. HATRED OF NON-MOSLEMS ['unbelievers'].

What a load of nonsense. There's nowhere near enough Islamic schools in Australia for this to be even remotely factual. You're a delusional twit.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 16^th, 2012 at 12:41pm

Perhaps he meant the 'after school' variety.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 16^th, 2012 at 10:03pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 16^th, 2012 at 11:21am:

Yadda wrote on Jul 13^th, 2012 at 10:31pm:

Most moslem kids in Australia go to ISLAMIC schools, where they are taught ISLAMIC/KORANIC principles.
e.g. HATRED OF NON-MOSLEMS ['unbelievers'].

What a load of nonsense. There's nowhere near enough Islamic schools in Australia for this to be even remotely factual. You're a delusional twit.

What do you teach your children about Australia's future?

"Respect the democratic process, kiddies. It has given me freedoms and opportunities I could not have under different political and social systems, such as, I dunno, anywhere in the Muslim lands. That's why we are still here and not somewhere Muslimish. Don't forget that, children, even if daddy a;ways does."

Or
"all this democracy and freedom stuff you hear in school is the work of Shaytan. DO as I say, not as I do - ie staying here and enjoying the benefits of all that democracy and freedom stuff and making sure that you, kiddies, also benefit from it. Be hypochrites like your dad, children, and talk sh!te but make sure you don't actually do what you preach."

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 16^th, 2012 at 10:50pm

Soren wrote on Jul 16^th, 2012 at 10:03pm:

What do you teach your children about Australia's future?

Asks the tool who admires the Zionist incursion into Palestine, yet lives in constant fear of being "overrun" by Muslims.

I teach my children to be critical thinkers, that will equip them with the ability to see each system for what it is. You on the other hand seem to be the type who'd teach children nothing but hatred and scaremongering, and an ethno-centric view of history of civilisation.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 1:10am

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 16^th, 2012 at 11:21am:

Yadda wrote on Jul 13^th, 2012 at 10:31pm:

Most moslem kids in Australia go to ISLAMIC schools, where they are taught ISLAMIC/KORANIC principles.
e.g. HATRED OF NON-MOSLEMS ['unbelievers'].

What a load of nonsense. There's nowhere near enough Islamic schools in Australia for this to be even remotely factual. You're a delusional twit.

Then clearly, those 'moslem' children who are attending infidel schools are not REAL moslems.

It is haram, for REAL moslems to allow their children to attend infidel schools, and thereby, submit themselves [their children!] to the influence of infidels.

Am i not correct Abu ?

"Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them."
Koran 3.28

" "And believe no one unless he follows your religion." Say: "True guidance is the Guidance of Allah: (Fear ye) Lest a revelation be sent to someone (else) Like unto that which was sent unto you? or that those (Receiving such revelation) should engage you in argument before your Lord?" Say: "All bounties are in the hand of Allah: He granteth them to whom He pleaseth: And Allah careth for all, and He knoweth all things." "
Koran 3.73

"O ye who believe! Take not into your intimacy those outside your ranks: They will not fail to corrupt you. They only desire your ruin: Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths: What their hearts conceal is far worse....."
Koran 3.118

Hey Abu,

Is Australia full of moslem impersonators too ???

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 1:28am

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 16^th, 2012 at 10:50pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 16^th, 2012 at 10:03pm:

What do you teach your children about Australia's future?

Asks the tool who admires the Zionist incursion into Palestine, yet lives in constant fear of being "overrun" by Muslims.

I teach my children to be critical thinkers,

that will equip them with the ability to see each system for what it is. You on the other hand seem to be the type who'd teach children nothing but hatred and scaremongering, and an ethno-centric view of history of civilisation.

I would wish so Abu.

But i cannot believe you.

Abu,

I am sure that you are already aware that the Koran [in fact Allah] commands believers to NOT enquire for themselves, about truth, and about the source of ISLAM's moral authority,
.....because for a moslem, faith is entirely dependent upon, obedience [submission] to Allah, AND, obedience [submission] to the clerics.

"O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble.....
Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith."
Koran 5.101, 102

AND;

The Koran [in fact Allah] instructs believers to follow the instruction and guidance of their clerics, implicitly,

"We sent not a messenger, but to be obeyed..........they ['believers'] can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction."
Koran 4.64, 65

And today, obviously, moslem clerics stand in Mohammed's 'place'.

AND;

Moslems are COMMANDED BY ALLAH, NOT TO SEEK, OR TO ACKNOWLEDGE ANY TRUTH, outside of ISLAM....

" "And believe no one unless he follows your religion." Say: "True guidance is the Guidance of Allah:....." "
Koran 3.73

Abu,

As a good, a REAL moslem, you are encouraging your children to embrace critical thinking ?

ROFLOL

Pull the other one Abu, it plays "Jihad Bells."

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 3:53am

freediver wrote on Jul 14^th, 2012 at 10:44am:

Quote:

Family first wanted to burn lesbians too but they cant because they will go to jail if they do.

;D

[quote]Prolly - i couldn't be bothered figgering it out. I didnt mention war in that quote.

You did mention violence. Are you suggesting there are no muggings or extremist Muslims in Muslim countries that have a decent education?

Quote:

Malaysia

Indonesia is improving with better education too.

Can you explain how these countries "don't seem to have violence"? Does Bali count as violence? Or is it more a matter of you pretending the problem disappears, hence your claim that they merely "seem" to have less violence.[/quote]

As you know full well i was talking about religious violence.

Now you answer some questions for a change. What do you think? Tell me your opnion.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 3:56am

Yadda wrote on Jul 16^th, 2012 at 12:08am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 14^th, 2012 at 9:49am:

Quote:

Name one moslem majority country that has,
1/ 'decent education',

Malaysia

Indonesia is improving with better education too.

[quote]2/ doesn't have incidents of ISLAMIC violence [directed towards minorities].

Everywhere has occasional violence towards minorities.

SOB

Hey spot,

AGAIN.....

Quote:

As per usual you are talking unsubstantiated shite.

What a lot of absolute untruth and lies you always speak......

Unsubstantiated twaddle.[/size]

"...quack, quack!"

Malaysia eh ?

Spot,

Why do you keep spouting YOUR falsehoods and untruths, in your posts ?

Google;
malaysia, muslim authority, persecution of minorities

Google;
malaysia, muslim authority, persecution of hindus

+++

Spot,

How can your arguments 'impress', if they are always based upon falsehoods and lies ???

Hey Spot,

Your moslem nature [of lying, falsehood] is breaking through your façade.

Everyone can see, 'where' you are coming from.

"...quack, quack!"

[/quote]

What falsehood did i speak yadda?

Malaysia may have persecution of minorities but so does every country. I have never been persecuted in malaysia but i have here in australia. Go figger. Thats a global thing. you just dont like the fact that muslims are not ALL terrorists as you claim. You need them to focus your hate on.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 8:25am

Quote:

As you know full well i was talking about religious violence.

Spot why do you keep assuming people know what you are talking about, even if you say something different?

Does Bali count as religious violence?

Quote:

Now you answer some questions for a change. What do you think? Tell me your opnion.

Lesbians are cool. You shouldn't burn them.

Quote:

you just dont like the fact that muslims are not ALL terrorists as you claim.

Abu and Falah are not terrorists either, apparently. But they still want to destroy freedom and democracy and stone people to death, even fellow Muslims.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 2:01pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 16^th, 2012 at 10:50pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 16^th, 2012 at 10:03pm:

What do you teach your children about Australia's future?

Asks the tool who admires the Zionist incursion into Palestine, yet lives in constant fear of being "overrun" by Muslims.

I teach my children to be critical thinkers

But not as regards Islam. There you teach them to be completely uncritical.

But where the you draw the line? Uncritical of Koran only? But they are not scholars, so that would be dangerous.
Uncritical of scholars only? But which scholars? All scholars? Including Shia and Sufi scholars? Dangerous.
Only Sunni scholars? All sunni scholars? How do they deal with conflicting scholarship?
Take your guidance? Can they be critical about your guidance? On what grounds?

Critical thinking and Islam are incompatible. You are ridiculous.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 2:03pm

Yadda wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 1:10am:

"Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them."
Koran 3.28

So I take it you don't believe in this passage of the Bible either then Yadda?

"Don't team up with those who are unbelievers. How can righteousness be a partner with wickedness? How can light live with darkness?" (2 Corinthians 6:14)

Or do you only espouse this crap when it's someone else's beliefs you're misinterpreting?

In fact if I had posted that same passage but put a Qur'anic reference on it, I'm sure you wouldn't even have known the difference would you? Since you have no idea what either of our religions believe, as your religion is nothing but the doctrine of hatred and bigotry.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 2:21pm

Yadda wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 1:28am:

Abu,

As a good, a REAL moslem, you are encouraging your children to embrace critical thinking ?

ROFLOL

Pull the other one Abu, it plays "Jihad Bells."

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

That is SOOOOO culturally insensitive. It is actually multiculturally hurtful.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Karnal on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 5:11pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 2:03pm:

Yadda wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 1:10am:

Be careful, Abu. You'll get a dictionary quote for that one.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 6:12pm

Quote:

In fact if I had posted that same passage but put a Qur'anic reference on it, I'm sure you wouldn't even have known the difference would you? Since you have no idea what either of our religions believe, as your religion is nothing but the doctrine of hatred and bigotry.

Abu are you saying that yours is too?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by brumbie on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 8:54pm

"as your religion is nothing but the doctrine of hatred and bigotry."

oh dear...now theres a thing abu

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by brumbie on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 9:06pm

you see,to throw rocks is fine,but to put a name on the rock is.......well you know...a bit

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 9:07pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 5:11pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 2:03pm:

Yadda wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 1:10am:

Be careful, Abu. You'll get a dictionary quote for that one.

The unbridgable gap between Islam and Christianity (and Judaism) is that for Islam, the word in the Koran and Mohammed's interpretations of it (hadiths) are the entire subject matter of Islamic faith. With Christianity and especially Judaism, an interpretive (exegetic) tradition is equally important.

Islam is like Pallas Athene who sprung fully armed and armoured and perfect from Zeus's head. Seventh century Araby under Mohammed is that worldly perfection to which all Islam has been hankering ever since.

Judaism and Christianity on the other hand unfold through what some call the history of grace. As a matter of fact, and as illustration, take the idea of evolution. It could not have come from an Islamic mind.

Islam is absolutely ahistoric in it own self-reckoning. Christianity and Judaism aren't like that. This is indeed Islam's crucial criticism of them, that they are not as anachronistic as Islam, that they change with time, unlike Islam.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 10:28pm

freediver wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 6:12pm:

Quote:

Abu are you saying that yours is too?

Keep re-reading it, it might make sense to you eventually (we can only hope).

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 10:43pm

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 9:07pm:

What a load of absolute bollocks. Judaism and Christianity suddenly "evolved" into this state of subjugation to the forces of secularism, about 200 years ago when the atheists tore them a new one and put them in their place. That's the only reason Christianity ever accepted such things, not out of some airy fairy enlightenment mumbo jumbo supposedly "woven into the tapestry of their beliefs", that you conjure up in your mind, to provide you with what you seriously lack, a decent argument against Islam.

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 9:07pm:

As a matter of fact, and as illustration, take the idea of evolution. It could not have come from an Islamic mind.

Really? So I guess in your little delusional alternate reality, Ibn Khaldun was never born right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugu3cZN-3jU

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 9:07pm:

Islam is absolutely ahistoric in it own self-reckoning. Christianity and Judaism aren't like that. This is indeed Islam's crucial criticism of them, that they are not as anachronistic as Islam, that they change with time, unlike Islam.

Yes, being unprincipled, ie. having no actual values or morals that you will stick to and defend is indeed worthy of criticism.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 10:52pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 10:43pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 9:07pm:

As a matter of fact, and as illustration, take the idea of evolution. It could not have come from an Islamic mind.

Really? So I guess in your little delusional alternate reality, Ibn Khaldun was never born right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugu3cZN-3jU

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 9:07pm:

Yes, being unprincipled, ie. having no actual values or morals that you will stick to and defend is indeed worthy of criticism.

SO you accept Darwin's theory of evolution?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 7:38am

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 10:52pm:

SO you accept Darwin's theory of evolution?

Is that honestly what you perceived my post to say? Or are you just trying to avoid admitting your post is Absolute bollocks?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 8:21am

That's what it looked like to me Abu. Your earlier post also appeared to imply that both religions are nothing but the doctrine of hatred and bigotry.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 8:57am

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 7:38am:

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 10:52pm:

SO you accept Darwin's theory of evolution?

Is that honestly what you perceived my post to say? Or are you just trying to avoid admitting your post is Absolute bollocks?

you claim evolution for Islam. Do you believe in evolution, then?

Or are you claiming evolution for Islam even as you don't believe it because it is a false doctrine?

Or do you accept the Islamic version of evolution but not the Darwinian version?

You can't be all three. Which one then?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 10:03am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 13^th, 2012 at 3:26pm:

the countries with majority muslims that have decent education dont seem to have the violence actually.

Go figger.

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 14^th, 2012 at 9:49am:

Quote:

Name one moslem majority country that has,
1/ 'decent education',
2/ doesn't have incidents of ISLAMIC violence [directed towards minorities].

Malaysia

Indonesia is improving with better education too.

SOB

The latest out of Malaysia, ......'educated', 'tolerant', moslem majority Malaysia.....

Quote:

Last Malaysian Hindu temple in central Kuala Lumpur condemned, given five days to vacate
Another Hindu temple in Malaysia will soon join the growing list of non Muslim houses of worship to be destroyed by (Muslim) authorities in the name of 'progress'. In this case, the last Hindu temple reportedly in the central business district of Kuala Lumpur will soon be demolished as a part of a 'redevelopment' project, which does indeed constitute progress if you're an Islamic supremacist.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/07/last-malaysian-hindu-temple-in-central-kuala-lumpur-condemned-given-five-days-to-vacate.html

AND ANOTHER, OLDER ITEM, BUT THE SAME ISSUE.....

Quote:

16 May 2006
Pressure on multi-faith Malaysia
Malaysia is considering its multi-cultural credentials after a crowd of Muslims on Sunday broke up a meeting called to defend the rights of religious minorities.
The country's leaders condemned the disturbances, but the BBC's Jonathan Kent in Kuala Lumpur says non-Muslims feel increasingly beleaguered.
"I'm becoming an alien in Malaysia, in my own country," says Dr Jacob George.
The president of the Consumers Association of Subang and Shah Alam in Selangor State has been helping to organise efforts to stop the local authorities in the ethnic Malay-Muslim dominated city of Shah Alam from demolishing a 107-year-old Hindu temple.
......"There's a creeping Islamicisation in our society and this isn't appropriate because we're a multi-religious, multi-racial country."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4965580.stm

I can't find a news item about the Malaysian authorities demolishing an old established Mosque.

Can you SPOT ?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 10:53am

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 2:03pm:

Yadda wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 1:10am:

You are correct Abu, the Bible DOES counsel God's people to separate themselves from the ways of the world, and the ways of the unbelievers [aka, infidels, heathens, gentiles].

Romans 12:9
Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

And of course.....

2 Corinthians 6:14
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

But the NT Bible also states.....

Romans 12:18
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

Hebrews 12:14
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Hey Abu,

Where are the unambiguous and complementary Koran verses, to the unambiguous command contained within, Romans 12:18, and Hebrews 12:14 ???

There are none.

And you know it.

The principle command and doctrine of the Koran is to try to [first] persuade, but otherwise fight every un-ISLAMIC authority and people, so as to then, FORCEFULLY impose ISLAM and moslem authority upon them.

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

And in the Hadith.....

"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #001.002.026

"A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.065
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.080i

Abu,

Instead of hiding behind a cloak of deceit, pretending that ISLAM is virtuous, AND HONEST, .....why won't you moslems just admit that your 'cause' is one which uses falsehood, deceit, threats, intimidation, and brutal violence ?

And to attain what, Abu ?

ISLAM is seeking to gain a worldly, secular, political ascendancy over mankind.

There is nothing spiritual about ISLAM.

ISLAM's purpose, its raison d’être, is to kill [and enslave] as many human beings, as it possibly can.

And enslave mankind, to whom ???

Matthew 4:9
And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Psalms 146:8
The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous:

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 10:55am

Soren wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 2:21pm:

Yadda wrote on Jul 17^th, 2012 at 1:28am:

That is SOOOOO culturally insensitive. It is actually multiculturally hurtful.

Coz, moslems DO hate the sound of bells [especially church bells].

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 11:59am

What we can look forward to - the Scandinavian Model

Mona Sahlin, a later leader of the Social Democrats, said in an interview [in] 2002 with the magazine Euroturk, when asked what Swedish culture is:

I’ve often had that question, but I can’t think of what Swedish culture is. I think that is what makes us Swedes so envious of immigrants. You have a culture, an identity, something that ties you together. What do we have? We have Midsummer’s Eve and such corny things.

She also said: The Swedes must integrate into the new Sweden. The old Sweden is not coming back.

In this New Sweden we have more reported rapes than any other country in the European Union, according to a study by professor Liz Kelly from England. More than 5 000 rapes or attempted rapes were reported in 2008 (last year it was more than 6 000). In 2010 another study reported that just one country in the world has more rapes than Sweden, and that is Lesotho in South Africa. For every 100,000 inhabitants Lesotho has 92 reported rapes, Sweden has 53, The United States 29, Norway 20 and Denmark 7.

In 1990 the authorities counted 3 exclusion areas in Sweden, suburbs where mostly immigrants live, where very few have a job to go to, almost all of them live by welfare and the children don’t pass their exams. In 2002 they counted 128 exclusion areas. In 2006 we had 156 and then they stopped counting. In some cities, like Malmö where I live, a third of all inhabitants live in an exclusion area.

What did Tage Erlander mean when he said that the Swedish population was homogeneous, not just according to race but also in many other aspects? I think he meant things like norms, values, culture and traditions. A feeling of fellowship. That we all, in the Old Sweden, had a similar view of what a good society is and how we solve conflicts. He KNEW what the Swedish culture was all about, in contrast to Mona Sahlin.

In the New Sweden we need armed police officers at our hospitals because rivalling families fight each other in the hospital rooms. They gun each other down in open streets and they rob and beat old people up. The crime rate grows by the minute, but the Swedish politicians and journalists tell us that it has absolutely nothing to do with immigration. The fact that our prisons are full of foreign people is just a coincidence or is explained by socio-economic factors.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by adamant on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 8:23pm

Soren wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 11:59am:

Do you have a link please Soren?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 9:28pm

Yadda wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 10:53am:

There is nothing spiritual about ISLAM.

CORRECTION;

There is nothing ~~spiritual~~ virtuous about ISLAM.

ISLAM is the spiritual 'dark place'.

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 9:50pm

Adamant wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 8:23pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 11:59am:

Do you have a link please Soren?

http://www.tryckfrihet.com/i_want_my_country_back/

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 12:59am

freediver wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 8:21am:

That's what it looked like to me Abu. Your earlier post also appeared to imply that both religions are nothing but the doctrine of hatred and bigotry.

*shrug* your poor literacy skills are hardly my problem.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 1:01am

Soren wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 8:57am:

you claim evolution for Islam.

I claim no such thing. You claimed a Muslim could never have come up with such an idea. I contradicted this. Just admit you're wrong, and stop trying to railroad this with your usual nonsense.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 1:05am

Yadda wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 10:53am:

"Don't team up with those who are unbelievers. How can righteousness be a partner with wickedness? How can light live with darkness?" (2 Corinthians 6:14)

...

You are correct Abu, the Bible DOES counsel God's people to separate themselves from the ways of the world, and the ways of the unbelievers [aka, infidels, heathens, gentiles].

But it specifically speaks about the unbelievers, the infidels themselves. It doesn't just say their ways. Why are you trying to be deceptive and twist what it says to suit yourself and your own hate filled bigoted approach to religion?

Why do you not just admit the simple fact that most religions speaks of the same kind of separation, Islam is certainly not alone in this.

Why can you not abandon your falsehood and speak truth for once?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 1:35am

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 1:05am:

Yadda wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 10:53am:

Romans 12:18
If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

Hebrews 12:14
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

And the term "all men" in, Romans 12:18, and Hebrews 12:14, can mean only believers, Abu ?

Deuteronomy 10:17-19
For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger, ...Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Psalms 146:8
The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous:

Hey Abu,

Righteousness, as defined by God, has absolutely NOTHING to do with being a 'believer', or an 'unbeliever', a 'Christian', or a 'Jew', or in being a moslem.

I know that you believe, that moslems are justified before your god, Allah, >> because << they are moslems.

I know that i can't change your mind Abu.

+++

Why can't you obey these Abu ???

A.
Because you are a moslem.
And you obey another law, NOT OF MY GOD.

Why do you disrespect these Abu, ......especially 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 ???........

Too Jewish, for moslems ???

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 8:29am

Yadda wrote on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 1:35am:

But I didn't mention those passages Yadda, I'm asking you about Corinthians.

Or do you now all of a sudden magically make the realisation that one religious text might clarify another?

Pity you're so narrow minded and blinkered that you can't realise the same goes for the Islamic texts.

Too bad you can only bring yourself to quote the first half of passages like this:

Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors..

Whilst you completely ignore that the second part might clarify, just as you claim Hebrews & Romans clarifies the passage in Corinthians.

I think you know full well in your own heart your estimation of Islam here is not just. You know full well it is dishonest and one sided. Is this one sided, deceptive, hate filled manner of yours something Christianity teaches? Or is it something you have built up inside yourself due to your own wickedness?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 8:33am

Yadda wrote on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 1:35am:

Why can't you obey these Abu ???

A.
Because you are a moslem.
And you obey another law, NOT OF MY GOD.

Why do you disrespect these Abu, ......especially 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 ???........

Too Jewish, for moslems ???

I do keep those last ones. You can't even keep the first one, polytheist, and it's your book.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 10:36pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 8:29am:

I think you know full well in your own heart your estimation of Islam here is not just.

You know full well it is dishonest and one sided. Is this one sided, deceptive, hate filled manner of yours something Christianity teaches? Or is it something you have built up inside yourself due to your own wickedness?

Abu,

I say that your own 'holy' texts record that ISLAM's prophet, Mohammed, procured the murder of his critics.

Am i a liar ?

"Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #005.059.369

Is that what a prophet of God does ?

Abu,
In that Hadith verse Mohammed claims that a man had injured ~~God~~ Allah.

Q.
I ask, how can a man, hurt ~~God~~ Allah ????iNumbers 12:3
(Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)

John 11:35
Jesus wept.

What is the principle difference between the life of Mohammed, and the life of Jesus ?

Mohammed involved himself in the killing of many, many, persons, and also procured the murder of his critics.

Jesus healed the sick and raised the dead to life. John 11

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:03am

Yadda wrote on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 10:36pm:

Abu,

I say that your own 'holy' texts record that ISLAM's prophet, Mohammed, procured the murder of his critics.

Am i a liar ?

Execution of an enemy propaganda minister would be more accurate.

Yadda wrote on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 10:36pm:

Is that what a prophet of God does ?

Read your own Bible and see. Your Bible claims God's prophets even murder little kids.... Does it not?

Yadda wrote on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 10:36pm:

Abu,
In that Hadith verse Mohammed claims that a man had injured ~~God~~ Allah.

Q.
I ask, how can a man, hurt ~~God~~ Allah ????

He was a propagandist who attacked Islam and the Muslims. Therefore his actions were hurtful. But they do not detract one iota from God.

Yadda wrote on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 10:36pm:

Numbers 12:3
(Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)

Yet he led armies that supposedly murdered little kids, right?

Yadda wrote on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 10:36pm:

John 11:35
Jesus wept.

All men weep.

Yadda wrote on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 10:36pm:

What is the principle difference between the life of Mohammed, and the life of Jesus ?

Mohammed involved himself in the killing of many, many, persons, and also procured the murder of his critics.

Jesus healed the sick and raised the dead to life. John 11

Muhammad (pbuh) ordered the execution of those who fought against Islam, as he was a head of state and it was his duty to do so, just as prophets from the Bible who were heads of state did too. Jesus (pbuh) was not a head of state, as some other prophets were not either. The clear difference is not whether they're Biblical or Qur'anic, it's whether they were heads of state.

If you had half a neuron in that thick head of yours, you would've figured this one out already, instead of practising your usual self-deception.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:09am

Abu don't you think it is a reasonable interpretation that Jesus preached an end to the killing and Muhammed preached (and demonstrated) its return?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:12am

freediver wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:09am:

Abu don't you think it is a reasonable interpretation that Jesus preached an end to the killing and Muhammed preached (and demonstrated) its return?

No more than Moses, Joshua, David, Solomon (pbut) or any of the other head of state prophets in the Biblical tradition. In fact in comparison to them, Muhammad (pbuh) was THE most peaceful head of state ever to walk the earth.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:31am

Are you agreeing with me?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 3:12pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 19^th, 2012 at 1:01am:

Soren wrote on Jul 18^th, 2012 at 8:57am:

you claim evolution for Islam.

I claim no such thing. You claimed a Muslim could never have come up with such an idea. I contradicted this. Just admit you're wrong, and stop trying to railroad this with your usual nonsense.

The idea that Muslims have come up with an evolutionary idea is bollocks. They came up with the idea of of unity and harmony in the world, like everyone else. There is no spontaneous or 'built-in' evolution in Islam, where everything is absolutely under Allah's command. It's all insh'allah.

This is just one more 'Islam was there first' nonsense, this time about something Islam could not possibly do or think simultanously with its core tenets. Evolution is thinkable only if 'god' and the world are reasonable - not random as in Islam, under Allah the eastern potentate.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 6:36pm

It's like how the first person to fly was actually a Muslim who jumped off a building with feathers glued to his arms. He invented modern art at the same time as advancing our knowledge of flight (that gluing feathers to your arms does not work).

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:10pm

freediver wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:31am:

Are you agreeing with me?

If you're merely pointing out that some prophets were heads of state, and part of their duties in that role involved leading armies and executing criminals and the like (Moses, Joshua, David, Solomon, Muhammad et al), whilst other prophets were not heads of state and therefore such things were not part of their duties (Noah, Abraham, Jesus et al)...

Then yes, I agree with you.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:21pm

You left out all the women Muhammed had to service. It's a tough job, but someone's gotta do it!

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:35pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:10pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:31am:

Are you agreeing with me?

Lucky he had God on his side to tell him who to kill, hey Abu?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:30pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:12am:

freediver wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:09am:

Abu don't you think it is a reasonable interpretation that Jesus preached an end to the killing and Muhammed preached (and demonstrated) its return?

A shame that the Muslim people are proven to be the most violent people on earth

A bus full of tourists in Bulgaria and 300 rockets into my country in one weekend?

Peaceful?

You will get what is coming again.
You do not mess with the Jews.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:35pm

freediver wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:21pm:

You left out all the women Muhammed had to service. It's a tough job, but someone's gotta do it!

Again, if we look at the other prophets who preceded him like Solomon (pbuh), then surely you'll realise your comments are just completely stupid. Solomon (pbuh), according to the Bible, had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:42pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:21pm:

You left out all the women Muhammed had to service. It's a tough job, but someone's gotta do it!

and so there are no 'Solomonites' as a religion.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:20pm

Soren wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 3:12pm:

Well Darwin's contemporaries seemed to think so. Hence their use of the "Muhammadan" misnomer, not unlike another tool we know here.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:21pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:30pm:

A bus full of tourists in Bulgaria and 300 rockets into my country in one weekend?

Peaceful?

When you are squatting in someone elses land, I guess you gotta look over your shoulder a lot, don't you?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:25pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:21pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:30pm:

A bus full of tourists in Bulgaria and 300 rockets into my country in one weekend?

Peaceful?

When you are squatting in someone elses land, I guess you gotta look over your shoulder a lot, don't you?

It is MY country where I was born and belong.

Bombing civilians, firing unguided rockets at markets?

You wonder why we see them as animals?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:34pm

Even your desperate use of capitals for the possessive does not change the simple fact... you're in someone elses land, and you know it. you are the animal, the unwanted animal that's in someone elses territory, like the stray mutt you are.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:38pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:12am:

freediver wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:09am:

Abu don't you think it is a reasonable interpretation that Jesus preached an end to the killing and Muhammed preached (and demonstrated) its return?

Does this mean he was the most peaceful head of state to walk the earth? That is a very strange way of phrasing a comparison Abu. Is it something to do with Islam? Or did your hyperbole get away from you?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:40pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:21pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:30pm:

A bus full of tourists in Bulgaria and 300 rockets into my country in one weekend?

Peaceful?

When you are squatting in someone elses land, I guess you gotta look over your shoulder a lot, don't you?

In Bulgaria?

It's global jihad, innit??

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:45pm

Soren wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:40pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:21pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:30pm:

A bus full of tourists in Bulgaria and 300 rockets into my country in one weekend?

Peaceful?

When you are squatting in someone elses land, I guess you gotta look over your shoulder a lot, don't you?

In Bulgaria?

It's global jihad, innit??

Our retaliation answer coming to the perpetrators will be to bring hell to their door step.
Hezbollah are waiting nervous for our F-16s and they will be coming.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:45pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:20pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 3:12pm:

Well Darwin's contemporaries seemed to think so. Hence their use of the "Muhammadan" misnomer, not unlike another tool we know here.

Ah, so!!
Victorian Englishmen are authorities when they can be construed as affirming Islam but infidel running dog lackeys when they don't.

The Muslim idea was recognised as nonsense for 500 years. It needed something else to make it a viable proposition. No Muslim could supply that something else because it is contrary to everything Mohammed decreed.

The nonsense part of it that floundered for 500 years is all yours. The bit that took off - Islam has nuffin' do wiv that.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:51pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:45pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:40pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:21pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:30pm:

A bus full of tourists in Bulgaria and 300 rockets into my country in one weekend?

Peaceful?

When you are squatting in someone elses land, I guess you gotta look over your shoulder a lot, don't you?

In Bulgaria?

It's global jihad, innit??

Our retaliation answer coming to the perpetrators will be to bring hell to their door step.
Hezbollah are waiting nervous for our F-16s and they will be coming.

1 Samuel 18:7
Make sure all ten thousand are circumcised.

:D :D :D :D

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 4:57am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:45pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:40pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:21pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:30pm:

A bus full of tourists in Bulgaria and 300 rockets into my country in one weekend?

Peaceful?

When you are squatting in someone elses land, I guess you gotta look over your shoulder a lot, don't you?

In Bulgaria?

It's global jihad, innit??

Our retaliation answer coming to the perpetrators will be to bring hell to their door step.
Hezbollah are waiting nervous for our F-16s and they will be coming.

Why dont you just round them up into gas chambers?

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 7:17am

Have you ever tried rounding up Palestinians? They are worse than cats.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 9:45am

freediver wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 7:17am:

Have you ever tried rounding up Palestinians? They are worse than cats.

Hamas in Gaza.
Fatah in West Bank.

They both shoot at each other and ban each other from their territories.

(Spot did not know they both existed and were ruled differently - his knowledge of the region is poor)

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 12:37pm

freediver wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 7:17am:

Have you ever tried rounding up Palestinians? They are worse than cats.

fd, would you find it acceptable to casually speak about rounding up Jews into gas chambers I wonder?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 1:06pm

I'm sure spot was joking about the gas chambers.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 1:27pm

freediver wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 1:06pm:

I'm sure spot was joking about the gas chambers.

And if Jews were the target of his joke, then you'd comment similarly and find it as acceptable?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 1:35pm

If it was from someone defending the Jews, it wouldn't particularly bother me. But I wouldn't make the same comment. Palestinians are notoriously difficult to round up, whereas Jews will form a line. Just think, if Falah was here, I could work in a reference to cattle farming in the tropics.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 1:43pm

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 9:45am:

freediver wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 7:17am:

Have you ever tried rounding up Palestinians? They are worse than cats.

It doesnt mean that every single person in gaza supports hamas. They are a political party. I dont support gillard yet she is in charge.
Same goes for other countries.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 1:45pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 12:37pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 7:17am:

Have you ever tried rounding up Palestinians? They are worse than cats.

fd, would you find it acceptable to casually speak about rounding up Jews into gas chambers I wonder?

I was being facetious because israel is so hypocritical with the cries of "holocaust!" when they treat the arabs so badly.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 1:46pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 1:27pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 1:06pm:

I'm sure spot was joking about the gas chambers.

And if Jews were the target of his joke, then you'd comment similarly and find it as acceptable?

Abu - freediver says you want to kill me and all other non-believers. He says you do not like "freedom and democracy" (although its debatable we have either in this country). Are these statements true? Do you want to change australian way of life to your way?

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 2:07pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 1:45pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 12:37pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 7:17am:

Have you ever tried rounding up Palestinians? They are worse than cats.

fd, would you find it acceptable to casually speak about rounding up Jews into gas chambers I wonder?

I was being facetious because israel is so hypocritical with the cries of "holocaust!" when they treat the arabs so badly.

SOB

Yeh I know, I just want fd to be consistent.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 2:11pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 1:46pm:

No I do not want to kill you or other non-believers.

I like freedom to live a peaceful life, and I like the idea that the people have some say in their leadership, I just don't think that maps over to what the West calls "freedom and democracy". I think freedom is out of control in Western societies, and I think democracy is actually a tool used to railroad people into believing they have choice in government, when in fact they have very little.

Of course I want Australia, and the entire world to realise that Islam is the truth, and to embrace it, as I believe it is the best way of life, and it'd be selfish of me not to want the same for others. That's different to fd's delusional nightmare of Muslims wanting to enforce Islam onto him though.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 2:40pm

Can you explain how it is different please Abu?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 2:43pm

Well xtians want the whole world to adhere to their religion too. THEY try to force it on me unlike any muslims i have known.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 2:52pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 2:11pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 1:46pm:

But wherever Islam is dominant, it IS enforced.

Christianity isn't.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 3:38pm

Soren wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 2:52pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 2:11pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 1:46pm:

But wherever Islam is dominant, it IS enforced.

Christianity isn't.

Oh realllly. . . .. prayers in parliament . . . .

It has been enforced plenty in the past but their stranglehold on ppl has been broken. Some (very loud) groups are trying to make it that way again though. Religion in schools and crap about gay ppl . . . . be nice if they stayed out of politics dont you think?

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 4:06pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 3:38pm:

It has been enforced plenty in the past but their stranglehold on ppl has been broken.

It is still enforced in many parts of the world, but you obviously can't acknowledge that because that would be a fear campaign and lies wouldn't it? Even right here in this thread you turned and ran when you saw it.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 4:11pm

freediver wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 4:06pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 3:38pm:

It has been enforced plenty in the past but their stranglehold on ppl has been broken.

You know i was referring to xtianity not your pet hate dont you?

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 4:18pm

Quote:

You know i was referring to xtianity not your pet hate dont you?

Of course I do. You couldn't change the topic quickly enough once Abu started talking.

Do you start ranting about Muslims every time you encounter a Christian extremist?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 7:28pm

freediver wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:21pm:

You left out all the women Muhammed had to service. It's a tough job, but someone's gotta do it!

;)

Its a function of being head of state.

[....being a good moslem, Abu can't quite decide if i'm being serious.]

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 7:47pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 8:21pm:

You left out all the women Muhammed had to service. It's a tough job, but someone's gotta do it!

And Solomon's behaviour in this regard, was [before hand] forbidden by God, and Solomon rebuked by God.

+++

God's law specifically prohibited prophets and kings from taking many wives.

Because God knew, that in having many wives, their wives would turn their hearts away from God, and away from his law, and away from God's statutes and judgements.

God knew that the lusts of the flesh would turn even king David and king Solomon away from God's ways.

Deuteronomy 17:14
When thou art come unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me;
15 Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.
16 But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses: forasmuch as the LORD hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way.
17 Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.
18 And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites:
19 And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them:
20 That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.

God's law specifically prohibited prophets and kings from taking many wives, AND YET, prophets like David and Solomon ignored God's law, and took to themselves many wives.

1 Kings 10:26
And Solomon gathered together chariots and horsemen: and he had a thousand and four hundred chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen, whom he bestowed in the cities for chariots, and with the king at Jerusalem.
27 And the king made silver to be in Jerusalem as stones, and cedars made he to be as the sycomore trees that are in the vale, for abundance.
28 And Solomon had horses brought out of Egypt, and linen yarn: the king's merchants received the linen yarn at a price.
29 And a chariot came up and went out of Egypt for six hundred shekels of silver, and an horse for an hundred and fifty: and so for all the kings of the Hittites, and for the kings of Syria, did they bring them out by their means.

1 Kings 11:1
But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites;
2 Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.
3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.
4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.
5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.
7 Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
8 And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods.

n.b.
And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD,

+++

So Mohammed, in taking many wives, was disregarding God's law, too.

And yet, the inerrant Koran claims that Mohammed pleased Allah, in all of his ways.

KORAN...
"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah. "
Koran 33.21

Abu will now point out that the OT Bible was corrupted by the Jews, so that nothing which OT Bible contains can have any veracity.

But i say, be by guided by the Bible, and dismiss and reject any philosophy which contradicts or does not align with the contents and narrative of the Bible.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 7:56pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 4:57am:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:45pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:40pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 10:21pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 20^th, 2012 at 9:30pm:

A bus full of tourists in Bulgaria and 300 rockets into my country in one weekend?

Peaceful?

When you are squatting in someone elses land, I guess you gotta look over your shoulder a lot, don't you?

In Bulgaria?

It's global jihad, innit??

Our retaliation answer coming to the perpetrators will be to bring hell to their door step.
Hezbollah are waiting nervous for our F-16s and they will be coming.

Why dont you just round them up into gas chambers?

SOB

No need.

God has a lake of fire.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 8:00pm

freediver wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 7:17am:

Have you ever tried rounding up Palestinians?

They are worse than cats.

My God is the God of the spirits of all flesh.

Herding spirits would seem impossible [worse than cats!!!], but my God has a way.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Karnal on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 8:32pm

This sounds like a marvellous God, Yadda.

What do I need to do to get this God?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 8:43pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 1:43pm:

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 9:45am:

freediver wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 7:17am:

Have you ever tried rounding up Palestinians? They are worse than cats.

It doesnt mean that every single person in gaza supports hamas.

They are a political party. I dont support gillard yet she is in charge.
Same goes for other countries.

SOB

But that circumstance [that Hamas has control] in Gaza does mean that those who refuse to bow down to Hamas are persecuted.

Examples.....

Gaza Christians stage public protest against forcible conversions to Islam
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/07/gaza-christians-stage-public-protest-against-forcible-conversions-to-islam.html

Gaza's Shi'ites claim persecution from Hamas
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/01/gazas-shiites-claim-persecution-from-hamas.html

Hamas brass in Gaza reject reconciliation with Fatah
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/02/hamas-brass-in-gaza-reject-reconciliation-with-fatah.html

And the future is today.....

Gaza kindergarten teaches jihad and hate: "I want to blow myself up on Zionists and kill them on a bus in a suicide bombing"
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/06/gaza-kindergarten-teaches-jihad-and-hate-i-want-to-blow-myself-up-on-zionists-and-kill-them-on-a-bus.html

Avram,

Israel NEEDS to destroy Gaza, and to push all of the ISLAMISTS there, into the sea.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 8:48pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 8:32pm:

This sounds like a marvellous God, Yadda.

Oh, he is K.

I am, is so glad that you are coming with us.

Psalms 146:8
The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous:

Quote:

What do I need to do to get this God?

For you ?

Just tell the truth.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 9:02pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 1:46pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 1:27pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 1:06pm:

I'm sure spot was joking about the gas chambers.

And if Jews were the target of his joke, then you'd comment similarly and find it as acceptable?

Abu - freediver says you want to kill me and all other non-believers.

He says you do not like "freedom and democracy" (although its debatable we have either in this country). Are these statements true? Do you want to change australian way of life to your way?

SOB

No, you are mistaken SPOT.

It is only permissible for moslems to kill non-believers,
1/ if they refuse to convert to ISLAM,
OR,
2/ if they refuse [to convert] to submit to ISLAMIC authority.

"Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City....whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy)."
Koran 33.60,61

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Karnal on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 9:11pm

Yadda wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 8:48pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 8:32pm:

This sounds like a marvellous God, Yadda.

What do I need to do to get this God?

For you ?

Just tell the truth.

Do I need to make a prayer or anything?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 9:56pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 9:11pm:

Yadda wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 8:48pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 8:32pm:

This sounds like a marvellous God, Yadda.

What do I need to do to get this God?

For you ?

Just tell the truth.

Do I need to make a prayer or anything?

Why are you asking me ?

Why don't you go to the source ?

You know where to look.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Karnal on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 10:09pm

Aren't you supposed to help me?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 10:23pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 10:09pm:

Aren't you supposed to help me?

Don't you think that i have pointed the way to the path ?

It is your journey.

You must choose your path.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Karnal on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 10:38pm

Yadda wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 10:23pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 10:09pm:

Aren't you supposed to help me?

Don't you think that i have pointed the way to the path ?

It is your journey.

You must choose your path.

Well, you've pointed which way NOT to go. I'm not sure if you've pointed to the one, true way.

Do you have your own God?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Yadda on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 10:53pm

Mattyfisk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 10:38pm:

Yadda wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 10:23pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 10:09pm:

Aren't you supposed to help me?

Don't you think that i have pointed the way to the path ?

It is your journey.

You must choose your path.

Well, you've pointed which way NOT to go. I'm not sure if you've pointed to the one, true way.

John 14:6

Quote:

Do you have your own God?

John 14:7-9

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Karnal on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 11:45pm

That's just a word and a few numbers. Is that all there is?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 7:15am

freediver wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 4:18pm:

Quote:

You know i was referring to xtianity not your pet hate dont you?

Of course I do. You couldn't change the topic quickly enough once Abu started talking.

Do you start ranting about Muslims every time you encounter a Christian extremist?

You are full of it as usual. Abu said he didnt say the things you said he said. I was just comparing since the muslims I know dont hassle me to be muslim whereas the xtians do.

Abu seems to be a lil different from the others i have met though but there are all sorts and i did ask him straight out. I didnt ask yadda - he just wanks on about his religion regardless.

Quote:

Well xtians want the whole world to adhere to their religion too. THEY try to force it on me unlike any muslims i have known.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 7:19am

Quote:

Avram,

Israel NEEDS to destroy Gaza, and to push all of the ISLAMISTS there, into the sea.

Calling for genocide now i see. You wish all those 5million ppl were dead . . . . . what a compassionate god you have.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 7:22am

Mattyfisk wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 11:45pm:

That's just a word and a few numbers. Is that all there is?

Hahaha and the word means toilet!

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 8:36am

Quote:

You are full of it as usual. Abu said he didnt say the things you said he said.

No he didn't. In fact he agreed with it. Please point out what you think is a contradiction. You have enough trouble remembering what you said.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Avram Horowitz on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 8:45am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 7:19am:

Quote:

Avram,

Israel NEEDS to destroy Gaza, and to push all of the ISLAMISTS there, into the sea.

Calling for genocide now i see. You wish all those 5million ppl were dead . . . . . what a compassionate god you have.

SOB

It is they who attack us.

It is up to them - they can have peace or war.
If they choose war, they choose wrong because we will smash them into the sea.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 9:48am

Avram Horowitz wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 8:45am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 7:19am:

Quote:

Avram,

Israel NEEDS to destroy Gaza, and to push all of the ISLAMISTS there, into the sea.

Calling for genocide now i see. You wish all those 5million ppl were dead . . . . . what a compassionate god you have.

SOB

It is they who attack us.

It is up to them - they can have peace or war.
If they choose war, they choose wrong because we will smash them into the sea.

I think if all 5million of them were attacking you we would know about it. In fact you would be overrun.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 9:51am

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 2:11pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 1:46pm:

There ya go freeliar. Wher did he say he wanted to enforce islam?

He is saying the normal religious crap about wanting everyone to believe what he does. They all do that xtian hindu muslim etc. Although really most muslims leave you alone unless you ask them straight out.

WTF is your point freeliar? What is it you are trying to get me to say? That all muslims are the same? That they are all terrorists? If i say that i will have to say that all xtians are terrorists too. Just look @ yadda calling for genocide.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 10:35am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 7:15am:

SOB, in Islam, we believe the best preaching is setting a good example, that is how we call people to our religion. That's why you will rarely, if ever, find a Muslim trying to ram religion down your throat as Christians routinely do.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 10:38am

Quote:

Wher did he say he wanted to enforce islam?

He didn't. But he also did not say that he doesn't want to. You should try asking him what he actually thinks rather than making up your own version of Islam. Islam is all about imposing Shariah law on people. The religion part is optional of course (unless you count being stoned to death for apostasy as coercion), but not the law. This is what he means when he talks about people 'embracing' Islam, but not in a 'democratic' way. He wants people to embrace it the Islamic way. You have the law imposed on you first, and pretty soon you find yourself bowing down and worshiping it. Each step is your choice of course, just not a very pleasant one.

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 2:11pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 21^st, 2012 at 1:46pm:

Try asking Abu under what circumstances he would feel obliged to kill you or other non-believers.

If you want to see where your censorship might lead, ask him what having "some say in their leadership" means.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 11:10am

freediver wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 10:38am:

You are so full of it fd. As spot isn't a docile tool like your lackeys here, I think you're going to have to work a lot harder than that to convince him of your tripe.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 11:35am

All it takes is asking you a few inconvenient questions Abu.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 11:39am

Quote:

He didn't. But he also did not say that he doesn't want to.

ABU said this:

Quote:

Quote:

You should try asking him what he actually thinks rather than making up your own version of Islam.

I dont make up my own version of islam. Its a religion and usually i steer clear (in real life) of any religious ppl. Thing is though I have told you before that i lived in muslim countries and nobody wanted to kill me.

Quote:

Try asking Abu under what circumstances he would feel obliged to kill you or other non-believers.

Okay abu under what circumstances would you feel obliged to kill me or other non-believers?

Quote:

If you want to see where your censorship might lead, ask him what having "some say in their leadership" means.

Still going on about the censorship. You can keep repeating it over and over but it doesnt make it true.

Quote:

You are so full of it fd.

Yes he quotes ppl out of context and expects them to defend things they never said.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 10:59pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 11:39am:

I have told you before that i lived in muslim countries and nobody wanted to kill me.

According to fd's delusional fantasy world, they merely spared your life so you could come here and argue in their favour against fd. ;D

Seriously, he actually believes in this kind of stuff.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 11:39am:

Okay abu under what circumstances would you feel obliged to kill me or other non-believers?

Can't say the idea has ever crossed my mind. But I'd have to say, anyone threatening my life or that of my loved ones would certainly put themselves in the running.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 7:53pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 10:59pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 11:39am:

Okay abu under what circumstances would you feel obliged to kill me or other non-believers?

Can't say the idea has ever crossed my mind. But I'd have to say, anyone threatening my life or that of my loved ones would certainly put themselves in the running.

What about the following scenarios?

1) Apostasy. Spot becomes a Muslim, then realises what a bad idea it is.

2) Homosexuality. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

3) Having sex with a cat.

4) Adultery.

5) Being a shite and not keeping your mouth shut.

6) Promoting genuine democracy where non-Muslims may vote and the winner has a mandate to institute something other than shariah law.

7) Trying to stop Muslims from overthrowing the government once they feel they are in a position to do so.

8) Drawing a funny picture of Muhammed.

9) Incest

10) FGM

11) Treason

12) Karnal knowledge

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 9:13pm

freediver wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2012 at 7:53pm:

What about them?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 24^th, 2012 at 6:55am

Would they attract the death penalty under the version of shariah law you want? I realise it is a long list, so just a yes/no/maybe will do. It is really just to help spot get to know you a bit better. Think of it as an ice breaker.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 24^th, 2012 at 9:21pm

freediver wrote on Jul 24^th, 2012 at 6:55am:

We've been over this so many times fd, and still you don't get it. Unless I took up a career as an executioner for the state, then it's absolute moot to quiz me about what crimes are considered capital offences under Islamic law. Anymore than it is to ask you if you wanna kill people for shoplifting, because democratic nations like the U.S do execute people for some kinds of thefts.

Honestly, do you not realise how desperate your arguments are? And how much of a tool you appear for continually peddling them?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by bludger on Jul 24^th, 2012 at 9:34pm

Still at it?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 24^th, 2012 at 9:34pm

Quote:

We've been over this so many times fd

I realise that, but Spot has not had the pleasure of attempting to get a straight answer out of you before. Would you deny him the opportunity to see it in action?

Quote:

Unless I took up a career as an executioner for the state, then it's absolute moot to quiz me about what crimes are considered capital offences under Islamic law.

Can you explain this please? I am pretty sure we have not been over this particular deflection before. It is still relevant to whether you want these people put to death, even if in practice you would get someone else to do the dirty work for you. And besides, isn't stoning people to death a community event in Islam where everyone gets to throw a stone? Would you shirk this responsibility?

Quote:

Anymore than it is to ask you if you wanna kill people for shoplifting, because democratic nations like the U.S do execute people for some kinds of thefts.

Abu, I oppose the death penalty for theft. See how easy that was?

Quote:

Honestly, do you not realise how desperate your arguments are? And how much of a tool you appear for continually peddling them?

You mean my questions?

Here is an interesting one from Spot, directed at me, referring to you:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2012 at 9:51am:

Wher did he say he wanted to enforce islam?

Would you mind clarifying whether you would be in favour of enforcing Shariah law? Should we interpret your failure to say that you want this to mean you don't actually want it, or merely that you are not completely 'upfront' with your views?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 24^th, 2012 at 10:48pm

freediver wrote on Jul 24^th, 2012 at 9:34pm:

but Spot has not had the pleasure of attempting to get a straight answer out of you before

You get the straight answer the first time, you just never accept it, and think if you ask a question 15 thousand different ways, you will eventually get what you think the answer should be. Discussing with you is like pouring fresh water into the sea, a very wasteful and pointless exercise at best.

freediver wrote on Jul 24^th, 2012 at 9:34pm:

Can you explain this please? I am pretty sure we have not been over this

Yes we have been over it, go back and do a search.

freediver wrote on Jul 24^th, 2012 at 9:34pm:

Abu, I oppose the death penalty for theft. See how easy that was?

Good for you. Democracy does not, and you are a proponent of Democracy, therefore you want to fry people's brains out for shoplifting.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 24^th, 2012 at 10:58pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 24^th, 2012 at 10:48pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 24^th, 2012 at 9:34pm:

but Spot has not had the pleasure of attempting to get a straight answer out of you before

Can you explain this please? I am pretty sure we have not been over this

Yes we have been over it, go back and do a search.

freediver wrote on Jul 24^th, 2012 at 9:34pm:

Abu, I oppose the death penalty for theft. See how easy that was?

Good for you. Democracy does not, and you are a proponent of Democracy, therefore you want to fry people's brains out for shoplifting.

You want to drag Australia and the world back to sharia utopia. You are personally behind every hand chopping and every stoning and killing in the name of sharia-compliant Islam because you are all out for sharia compliant Islam.

You are personally responsible for what you support, sonny Jim. And you support the head and hand hackers and suicide bombing mujahadeen.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 24^th, 2012 at 11:06pm

Soren wrote on Jul 24^th, 2012 at 10:58pm:

I believe the laws of God are perfect for managing the affairs of humanity. I believe that without strong deterrents, society becomes a cesspit of lawless thugs who roam the streets intimidating good law abiding citizens.

Is that what you prefer soren? A society where lawlessness reigns supreme? And criminals know full well a slap on the wrist is all they will get, even for some of the most heinous crimes?

And yet you claim to be holding up the "civilised" side of this discussion?

If I am personally responsible for wanting society to be governed by the rule of law, then you must be personally responsible for wanting the opposite.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Soren on Jul 24^th, 2012 at 11:27pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 24^th, 2012 at 11:06pm:

Soren wrote on Jul 24^th, 2012 at 10:58pm:

I believe the laws of God are perfect for managing the affairs of humanity.

You only know about 'god's law' what men have told you about it. It's men's law that you want to uphold.
Crazy men's laws, without any checks, without any accountability.
You have no access or privileged knowledge of to 'god's law' any more than anyone else. You just believe some men others don't believe.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 25^th, 2012 at 5:48am

Quote:

Yeah - thats what he does alright

Mate ill give him another one for free and ask you this:

Do you want sharia law for yourself and your family or for everyone in australia or are you not a sharia law person?

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 25^th, 2012 at 9:14am

Quote:

You get the straight answer the first time, you just never accept it

No Abu, I normally get an answer to a different question the first time.

Quote:

Yes we have been over it, go back and do a search

Can you point out where? I don't recall you ever claiming that your political preferences for killing people is irrelevant unless you get a job as an executioner.

Quote:

Democracy does not, and you are a proponent of Democracy, therefore you want to fry people's brains out for shoplifting.

Democracy is a system of government, not a statue Abu. You keep confusing separate issues.

Quote:

I believe the laws of God are perfect for managing the affairs of humanity.

If they are so perfect, why are you afraid to tell spot about them?

Quote:

Do you want sharia law for yourself and your family or for everyone in australia or are you not a sharia law person?

Haven't you already asked this spot? And gotten Abu's patented non-answer? How do you interpret his refusal to give a straight answer? Do you think this means he does not want to impose shariah law?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 25^th, 2012 at 9:33pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 25^th, 2012 at 5:48am:

Mate ill give him another one for free and ask you this:

Do you want sharia law for yourself and your family or for everyone in australia

Islam is a state system, not an individual or family system, so freediver even asking if I plan to implement it on all Australians is just ludicrous. I have no power to implement any state system, and debating it is just a fruitless waste of time (just like all of fd's questions). Muslims have not even managed to implement Shari'ah in the Muslim-majority world for over 90 years now, therefore, even floating the question of implementing it in Australia simply makes no sense.

The question is framed as if I am somehow on the very edge of taking control of the country, it's just nonsensical.

It is fd's usual strategy of asking completely irrational irrelevant questions, which have no logical answer, as they don't even make sense to people grounded in the real world.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 25^th, 2012 at 5:48am:

or are you not a sharia law person?

As a Muslim of course I believe in Shari'ah law, but it's something for the Muslim world to implement, nothing to do with Australia at all.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 25^th, 2012 at 9:56pm

Quote:

It is about what you want Abu, not what you are capable of achieving. Your impotence is not a mask for your will.

Quote:

The question is framed as if I am somehow on the very edge of taking control of the country, it's just nonsensical.

Spot framed the question as simply as possible - what is it that you want? There is not even a vague reference to what you are actually capable of.

Quote:

It is fd's usual strategy of asking completely irrational irrelevant questions, which have no logical answer, as they don't even make sense to people grounded in the real world.

Spot asked the question Abu, not me. I think it is a relevant question and I don't think it is unreasonable for you to offer him a straight answer.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 5:30am

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 25^th, 2012 at 9:33pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 25^th, 2012 at 5:48am:

Mate ill give him another one for free and ask you this:

Do you want sharia law for yourself and your family or for everyone in australia

or are you not a sharia law person?

As a Muslim of course I believe in Shari'ah law, but it's something for the Muslim world to implement, nothing to do with Australia at all.

Thanks abu. Same thing i have been saying. They dont want to hear it.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 7:11am

freediver wrote on Jul 25^th, 2012 at 9:56pm:

It is about what you want Abu, not what you are capable of achieving. Your impotence is not a mask for your will.

fd, I have no capacity to enforce any state system, and have no intention of endeavouring to do so in Australia (nor any country realistically for that matter). Therefore asking about it, or suggesting it's some kind of threat to the Australian society is just pure idiocy.

I'm not surprised you're doing it though, as it seems to be a favourite headline grabber for idiots all over the world. When you know 99% of your audience are absolutely gullible dolts, topics like this strike a chord don't they?

freediver wrote on Jul 25^th, 2012 at 9:56pm:

Spot framed the question as simply as possible - what is it that you want? There is not even a vague reference to what you are actually capable of.

Actually you framed the question, spot was merely amusing you it seems.

freediver wrote on Jul 25^th, 2012 at 9:56pm:

Spot asked the question Abu, not me. I think it is a relevant question and I don't think it is unreasonable for you to offer him a straight answer.

Spot seems to think I've answered the question. It's only you who doesn't, as usual, you always think there's some hidden answer that if you just ask the question in a different way, you'll get.

You're not actually interested in my answer or my opinions or beliefs or views. Anti-Islamic hate-sites have told you there's an alternate answer I'm supposedly hiding from you, and you intend to keep asking until you get it.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 8:14am

Abu, do you support attempts by fellow Muslims to destroy the fledgling democracies in Iraq and Afghanistan and impose Islamic law on those people against their wills?

Quote:

As a Muslim of course I believe in Shari'ah law, but it's something for the Muslim world to implement, nothing to do with Australia at all.

How extensive is this Muslim world? The entire historical Caliphate? Suppose they were successful, what then?

Quote:

Muslims have not even managed to implement Shari'ah in the Muslim-majority world for over 90 years now, therefore, even floating the question of implementing it in Australia simply makes no sense.

Therefore asking about it, or suggesting it's some kind of threat to the Australian society is just pure idiocy.

Can you explain how calling you impotent is the same as saying you are a threat to Australian society?

Quote:

You're not actually interested in my answer or my opinions or beliefs or views. Anti-Islamic hate-sites have told you there's an alternate answer I'm supposedly hiding from you, and you intend to keep asking until you get it.

No Abu, your own refusal to answer the question is what tells me that there is an answer that you are afraid to give.

Quote:

Thanks abu. Same thing i have been saying. They dont want to hear it.

Spot have you been saying that Muslims don't want to impose Shariah law on people, or that they are impotent to do so?

Did you intend to phrase the question as if Abu was about to overthrow the government, or did you merely ask what Abu wants to do, then accept his refusal to answer as agreement with you? Do you agree with Abu that your question was framed as if he was about to overthrow the government?

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 25^th, 2012 at 5:48am:

Do you want sharia law for yourself and your family or for everyone in australia or are you not a sharia law person?

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 9:40am

freediver wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 8:14am:

Abu, do you support attempts by fellow Muslims to destroy the fledgling democracies in Iraq and Afghanistan and impose Islamic law on those people against their wills?

This has gotta be the most loaded question you've ever asked, and you've asked some doozies before.

I support the rights of Muslims in their lands to expel foreign occupiers that try to enforce their way of life onto Muslims, and to re-establish their own way of life, ie. Islamic Caliphate.

And I'm sure you support the same, because all your crap here is about Muslims supposedly forcing our way of life onto Australia, so surely if you oppose that then you must oppose the Western armies trying to force their way of life onto Muslims, no?

freediver wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 8:14am:

The reason of course is that those people have had Islam imposed them from above, just like you now want to do again but are afraid to admit it. They know what it is like, and they reject it.

Can you explain how calling you impotent is the same as saying you are a threat to Australian society?

No Abu, your own refusal to answer the question is what tells me that there is an answer that you are afraid to give.

Put it to rest already, it's been answered (yet again), and nobody here is really all that interested in watching you ask the same question 15 thousand different ways (yet again).

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 9:44am

i have never beat my wife

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 12:27pm

Quote:

And I'm sure you support the same, because all your crap here is about Muslims supposedly forcing our way of life onto Australia, so surely if you oppose that then you must oppose the Western armies trying to force their way of life onto Muslims, no?

Democracy is not a way of life Abu. Nor is freedom. Rather, they permit people to choose their own way of life, both collectively and individually. You want democracy and freedom in Iraq and Afghanistan destroyed because you know that even there, people do not willingly choose Islamic law. Remember, I am talking about what you want, not what you are capable of achieving. That is what you want, right?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 9:19pm

freediver wrote on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 12:27pm:

You want democracy and freedom in Iraq and Afghanistan destroyed because you know that even there, people do not willingly choose Islamic law. Remember, I am talking about what you want, not what you are capable of achieving. That is what you want, right?

Sorry I forgot that you subscribe to the ridiculous propaganda line of the Western governments that Iraq & Afghanistan actually want their armies invading their countries. And that the Talibaan and others are just a few hundred individuals, who miraculously somehow have managed to fend off the world's combined superpowers for a good 11 years.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 9:25pm

I agree Abu. The Islamic extremists number more than a few hundred and are a genuine threat to democracy and freedom.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 26^th, 2012 at 9:26pm

Meanwhile in other breaking news....

Afghan policemen defect to Taliban in Farah province

An Afghan police commander and 13 junior officers have joined the Taliban in the western Afghan province of Farah, in what correspondents say could be the biggest defection by police.

They say the commander, named as Mirwais, was in charge of a 20-man checkpoint when he defected on Sunday.

The men are said to have taken heavy weaponry, radios and police vehicles including US-made armoured Humvees.

Farah is one of the most insecure areas in the relatively peaceful west.

The commander was based in Shewan village in the district of Bala Bulak, which was until recently considered a Taliban stronghold.

The insurgents were driven out of the area following a series of operations carried out by Afghan security forces. But local officials say insurgents have regrouped in the area recently.

Rarely reported
Police and intelligence officials deployed in the province said the commander poisoned seven policemen in his charge who had refused to defect along with him.

Quote:

Bilal Sarwary
BBC News, Kabul
Government officials, both in Kabul and the provinces, are shocked and confused. How could a senior police commander for a strategic district have defected? It is a huge embarrassment for the Afghan government - which also explains its silence.

There has been no press release, no statement. The incident took place late on Sunday night but full details emerged only on Tuesday.

But this is a clear case of a major intelligence failure and a further propaganda boost for the insurgents.

The reality is that commanders like Mirwais are key to the security and stability of remote villages and areas, where local deal-making and contacts are crucial to compensate for a weak Afghan government.

"Mirwais and his policemen had joined the force nearly two-and-a-half years ago. Mirwais had fought the insurgents in this area for quite some time," an Afghan intelligence official in the region told the BBC's Bilal Sarwary in Kabul.

"Long before he defected, he must have been passing intelligence and crucial information to the insurgents," the official said.

Officials said that the equipment taken by the defectors - rocket-propelled grenades, heavy machine-guns, radios and police vehicles, including two Humvees - will be a major boost to the Taliban in the area.

Humvees are prized trophies among Taliban commanders, both for their symbolic value and practical ability to travel over rough ground with armoured protection, correspondents say.

Our correspondent says this is believed to be the biggest police defection to the insurgents. Over the past few years similar incidents have taken place on a much smaller scale in the southern provinces of Kandahar, Helmand, Zabul, Uruzgan and in Ghor, Farah, Badghis and Herat in the west.

Such incidents have rarely been reported in the Afghan media, our correspondent says.

International forces have recently had increasing success in persuading Taliban fighters to come over to the government side.

Once relatively peaceful, Farah has seen increasing levels of violence. The Taliban and other insurgent groups are active in many districts, particularly those close to the provincial capital, which has witnessed recent attacks.

The province has a strategic position, bordering Iran, and the key Kandahar-Herat highway passes through Farah.

Source: BBC

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 5:29am

Ppl defending th4emselves arent necessarily "Extremists" they are trying to defend themselves. Labelling the enemy (in their own country) as "terrorists" is a good way to demonise them making it easier to slaughter them. I am thinking of Faluja now - the whole city had to be destroyed declared bush because the whole city is terrorists. War crime right there.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 8:19am

Spot they are killing their fellow countrymen by the thousands. This is not in self defence, but to prevent the establishment of a functioning democracy - to prevent their fellow countrymen having a real say in how the country is run. Even Abu is opposed to having a real democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan. You would have picked up on this by now if you didn't cover your ears every time Abu opens his mouth.

You asked me what my point was earlier. My point is that contrary to what you are saying, Islam is not 'just like any other religion'. It is a political system, a legal system (judge, jury and executioner), an economic system, a social system etc. It has more in common with political ideologies like Nazism than with other religions. And it is hostile to freedom and democracy.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 10:02am

freediver wrote on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 8:19am:

No I saw him say that but he also said he didnt care if australia has its democracy. He just wants muslim countries to be muslim. Fair enough i reckon for a religious person Do you ant to stop israel being jewish?

Actually im not to keen on any theocracies myself but well i cant do anything about it and going around hating every single person in a religion just because of the extremists is counter-productive.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 12:30pm

Quote:

but he also said he didnt care if australia has its democracy

No he didn't. He acknowledged his impotence to achieve the change he wants. This is not the same as saying he does not care or does not want the change.

Quote:

He just wants muslim countries to be muslim. Fair enough i reckon for a religious person Do you ant to stop israel being jewish?

Sure I care, especially if they start stoning people to death for apostasy. The idea that any country is religiously homogenous is a bit silly. You keep pointing out that not all Muslims are the same, yet here you are arguing that it is fair for Islamic extremists to impose their way in countries you consider to be Muslim. To what extent do you think we can attribute the fact that these countries are 'Muslim' to the fact that for much of the last millenium, the locals have faced the death penalty for saying the wrong thing?

Quote:

Actually im not to keen on any theocracies myself but well i cant do anything about it

Collectively, we are doing something about it right now. We are currently engaged in two wars to support fledgling democracies in Iraq and Afghanistan. The propaganda that you and Abu sprout could influence public opinion in a way that influences the outcome of these wars. It happened with Vietnam and can happen again. That is why Abu is trying so desperately to misrepresent his version of Islam as being tolerant of democracy and freedom, while at the same time trying to attack democracy and freedom. He wants people like you to think it is fair for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan to go through another hundred years of religious persecution at the hands of an oppressive regime and he wants you to think it isn't really so bad after all to live in that situation. We are now facing the tough decision of how much ongoing support to offer to the fledgling democracies, which is why Abu is trying to paint them as evil and corrupt at every opportunity and to pretend that the Taliban and Al Quaida are actually the popular choice among locals.

Quote:

and going around hating every single person in a religion just because of the extremists is counter-productive

You are creating a false dichotomy here Spot. It is not a choice between giving up and hating. There is a lot that can be done to promote and protect freedom and democracy. It starts with acknowledging the reality of the threat posed by Islam to freedom and democracy.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 1:25pm

Quote:

No i was just speaking my mind. Dont twist things around. If all religion was gone from the earth tomorrow it would be a better place. It wont be though. And nobody is going to ban religion any time soon and banning it wouldn't stop the idiots from believing stuff anyway. The closest we can get is to ban the religious organisations from having any influence over politics @ all. We can take religion out of the schools and that should help in the fight against extremism.

Most religious ppl are harmless and their religion is just between them and their skyfairy.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 1:40pm

Freediver:

Quote:

No he didn't. He acknowledged his impotence to achieve the change he wants. This is not the same as saying he does not care or does not want the change.

Abu:

Quote:

As a Muslim of course I believe in Shari'ah law, but it's something for the Muslim world to implement, nothing to do with Australia at all.

Look its not up to me to defend what abu says. In my experience muslims have never tried to make me follow their ways or hassled me to believe in their god or anything else. Some muslims may want sharia law for themselves and their families and maybe even their country (that would be extreme though) but abu pretty much said to me that he isnt working towards this goal.

There are xtian groups that prefer a theocracy too and they arent going to get it. The jews have a theocracy pretty much. There are several theocracies in the world. This doesnt mean every member of that country likes it.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 27^th, 2012 at 5:54pm

Quote:

You are creating another false dichotomy here Spot. There are all sorts of options other than banning religion or attempting to ban religious influence in politics. Standing up for freedom and democracy is a good start, and does not require you to have any particular views on religion. The problem is not people believing in things you disagree with. The problem is when they start killing people because of it.

Quote:

Most religious ppl are harmless and their religion is just between them and their skyfairy.

Most are, but this is hardly the case with Abu and many Muslims. It is not the case across the middle east, where saying the wrong thing about religion is likely to get you lynched. This is not because of western interference. It is the way Muhammed intended it.

Quote:

Look its not up to me to defend what abu says.

Then why are you trying so hard to do so? There is nothing in that quote to indicate that Abu does not want Islam for Australia as well, and he did indicate in this thread that he does. Abu is simply refusing to give a straight answer, and you are interpretting his non-answers as agreement with you.

Quote:

In my experience muslims have never tried to make me follow their ways or hassled me to believe in their god or anything else.

That's because Islam is fundamentally different to other religions. Most religious people want you to know about their religion. This is not always the case with Islam. It frequently serves Islam's purpose for non-Muslims to know as little as possible. What other explanation could there be for Abu to go to such lengths to justify not answering simple questions, when the answer itself would be easier to compose and make him look less deceptive than the absurd justifications.

Quote:

Some muslims may want sharia law for themselves and their families and maybe even their country (that would be extreme though)

According to Abu it is mainstream. You only have to look at the middle east to see how many of them want to impose it on everyone and are willing to kill to get their way.

Quote:

but abu pretty much said to me that he isnt working towards this goal

No he did not say that. He has said the opposite many times. Again you are reading things into his posts that are simply not there. He is taking advantage of your tendency to assume that Islam is just like other religions and that religious people are upfront about their beliefs, and your tendency to fill in the gaps in what he actually posts with the benefit of the doubt.

Quote:

There are xtian groups that prefer a theocracy too

They are not the mainstream in Christianity. They are in Islam, because that is what Islam is. Abu even portrays this as a reason why Islam is better - because it is complete in the sense that it is a total government and political system too, not just a religion in the sense that you are familiar with.

Quote:

There are several theocracies in the world. This doesnt mean every member of that country likes it.

So why did you say it would be fair if that is what they got?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 7:14am

Quote:

You are creating another false dichotomy here Spot.

No im not because im not asking a question. Im stating what i think. Religion is the problem. Its primitive and its nasty. It has no place in public where it can effect other ppl not of the "faith".

Quote:

Most are, but this is hardly the case with Abu and many Muslims

Abu is not running around killing ppl or even stoning them. It would be on the news - he would be in jail.

Quote:

It frequently serves Islam's purpose for non-Muslims to know as little as possible. What other explanation could there be for Abu to go to such lengths . . . . . blah blah

Your explanation is flawed. Nobody gives you the answers you want to hear and so you say they arent answering questions. You are selectively blind and dont see it when its right in front of you because you want your belief that islam is evil and all muslims are evil to be true.

Islam is evil but so is xtinaity. They are on par with each other for evilness. Its just in western society women have risen up and gotten rights now so we look down on countries that havent achieved that yet and call them evil. (thats just an example)

Quote:

According to Abu it is mainstream. You only have to look at the middle east to see how many of them want to impose it on everyone and are willing to kill to get their way.

He didnt say that. He said they havent even been able to implement it in any countries in 90 years which means not enough ppl want it. Not mainstream.

Quote:

They are not the mainstream in Christianity.

If i am going to follow your logic then they are.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 8:10am

Quote:

Abu is not running around killing ppl or even stoning them. It would be on the news - he would be in jail.

This is another example of a false dichotomy. (You don't have to ask a question to create a false dichotomy.) There is a very broad spectrum between harmless and running round killing people and it is naive to suggest that he is harmless because he is not actively killing people. Would you suggest someone promoting Nazism is harmless because they weren't actually killing people?

Quote:

Actually Abu has given me (and other people) more than enough answers. It is you who is blind to what is right in front of you. For example, even when I quoted Abu saying he completely rejects freedom and democracy you did not believe it.

Quote:

Islam is evil but so is xtinaity. They are on par with each other for evilness. Its just in western society women have risen up and gotten rights now so we look down on countries that havent achieved that yet and call them evil. (thats just an example)

Why do you think this happened in the west? Why do you think it is happening in other cultures relatively easily, but not in the middle east? Even when they have all the other predictors of social progress (wealth, education etc) they still deny each other all the basic human rights we take for granted. Why do you think that is?

Quote:

He didnt say that.

Yes he did. It wasn't in this thread though. Ask him yourself if you don't believe me.

Quote:

He said they havent even been able to implement it in any countries in 90 years which means not enough ppl want it. Not mainstream.

This is where it gets interesting. He blames all sorts of things, mostly western interference, for Muslims not getting what they want. I agree it is a silly argument, but Abu does think he is mainstream and there are certainly enough like minded people over there to keep the slaughter going. There is still a good chance they will succeed in preventing the establishment of democracy and basic human rights in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 8:58am

Quote:

This is another example of a false dichotomy.

bugger off

Quote:

Would you suggest someone promoting Nazism is harmless because they weren't actually killing people?

The KKK exists yet doesnt go around killing ppl anymore. Well occasionally they do and they get put in jail or killed themselves because america has death penalty.

Quote:

It is you who is blind to what is right in front of you.

What is right in front of me is peaceful muslims. I grew up surrounded by them. Like i have said many times the trouble started when i encountered xtians.

Quote:

Yes he did. It wasn't in this thread though. Ask him yourself if you don't believe me.

I dont believe a word you say. Its obvious you do the same thing to him you do to me. I asked him straight out and i asked him in your wording and he answered me.

Mainstream: basically i am saying that mainstream are peaceful like the mainstream xtians and not "terrorists". I have no idea what you are trying to make me say and i prolly wouldn't say it anyway.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 10:34am

Quote:

The KKK exists yet doesnt go around killing ppl anymore. Well occasionally they do and they get put in jail or killed themselves because america has death penalty.

OK. So if a KKK person started coming on here and pretending that his ideology was benign, would you be telling everyone that all ideologies are the same and it is unfair to pick on him because he happens to be in the KKK? Or do you only say these things about religion?

Quote:

What is right in front of me is peaceful muslims. I grew up surrounded by them.

Abu is also peaceful. Does that make him harmless?

Quote:

I dont believe a word you say.

Yet you are too afraid to ask Abu. And you don't believe it when he says it either.

Quote:

Its obvious you do the same thing to him you do to me. I asked him straight out and i asked him in your wording and he answered me.

He responded. It was hardly a straight answer.

Quote:

Mainstream: basically i am saying that mainstream are peaceful like the mainstream xtians and not "terrorists".

Abu is hardly a terrorist either. Does that make him harmless? Is this another false dichotomy - people are either terrorists or completely harmless?

Here it is Spot, right in front of you, yet again. Do you believe it now?

abu_rashid wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 8:21pm:

What nonsense. I would never degrade the good name of Islam by associating it with these disastrous ideals of freedom and democracy.

Do you believe that Abu supports the death penalty for apostasy etc, or would he have to 'ram it down your throat' before you believed it?

Do you believe that Abu wants Islamic law for Australia? Can you point to anywhere that he has actually said he does not want it, rather than where he has merely refused to give a straight answer? Can you tell the difference between Abu acknowledging his own impotence to achieve what he wants and not wanting it? Can you explain why he would answer by talking about his inability to achieve Islamic law in Australia if it was not what he wanted?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 10:55am

freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 8:10am:

Actually Abu has given me (and other people) more than enough answers.

I thought I never give you straight answers? Bit confused aren't you fd?

freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 8:10am:

The interesting thing though is that most of the leaders in the Middle East, and Muslim world at large, who've committed the most atrocious human rights abuses, have been the staunchest allies of the West. In fact most of them have been direct agents of the West, whom they lifted into power, and spent billions in military aid to keep there.

You seem completely oblivious to this fact though, and continue to deny it, instead traipsing out the usual propaganda lines about the West not having anything to do with the Middle East, except to keep them contained.

It's been shown to you time and again that Saddam, Mubarak, Ben Ali, Qadhafi, Assad etc. were all agents of the West, and were all immensely cruel to their own people, and that Islamic movements have risen up to oust most of them and replace their Western-funded military rule with civilian rule.

The facts on the ground completely contradict your position fd, and you're not alone in your denial of it, the Western governments themselves have been scrambling frantically for the past year or two to try and re-cast themselves as the supporters of change and civilian rule in the Middle East, when in fact it's quite clear they have been quite the opposite, and that the change and transition we see greatly disadvantages them and their ally, the Zionist entity.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 11:04am

Quote:

I thought I never give you straight answers? Bit confused aren't you fd?

You tend to give them inadvertently, like the democracy and freedom quote above. I never got anything like that the many times I asked you directly whether you support freedom and democracy. All I got then was "what is freedom" or "I am in no position to overthrow the Australian government".

Quote:

See what I mean about the excuses spot? They blow up each other's mosques because the west tells them to.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 11:29am

Quote:

Stop being such a dickhead

Quote:

Is this another false dichotomy - people are either terrorists or completely harmless?

You said that not me.

Im sick of this. If you want to have a discussion with me you need to stop being such a dishonest arsehole.

Abu:

Quote:

I thought I never give you straight answers? Bit confused aren't you fd?

Lololololololol

Quote:

democracy and freedom

Because its bullshit. Its american sloganism. Nobody in their right mind supports that.

I dont care that other countries have other regimes. Some have dictators and some have monarchies and we have pointless voting between 2 equally bad parties.

Quote:

See what I mean about the excuses spot? They blow up each other's mosques because the west tells them to.

You are just doing the same thing to him that you do to me and reinterpreting his words to mean what you want them to mean in your mind then wanting him to answer for it.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 12:29pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 11:29am:

Quote:

democracy and freedom

Because its bullshit. Its american sloganism. Nobody in their right mind supports that.

Can you elaborate please Spot? What makes you think no sane people support freedom and democracy?

Quote:

I dont care that other countries have other regimes. Some have dictators and some have monarchies and we have pointless voting between 2 equally bad parties.

Do you think you would be no worse off under a dictatorship or theocracy? Or do you just not care because it does not affect you?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by abu_rashid on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 12:52pm

freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 12:29pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 11:29am:

Quote:

democracy and freedom

Because its bullshit. Its american sloganism. Nobody in their right mind supports that.

Can you elaborate please Spot? What makes you think no sane people support freedom and democracy?

Spot has hit the nail right on the head. The sloganism of the West about freedom and democracy is what we oppose, not the concepts of self-determination for nations and the right to have a say in government.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 1:42pm

Quote:

Can you elaborate please Spot? What makes you think no sane people support freedom and democracy?

No sane ppl support the sloganism.

Quote:

Do you think you would be no worse off under a dictatorship or theocracy? Or do you just not care because it does not affect you?

Not that that is what i meant by it but of course you have to reinterpret everything to sound like you want it to sound.

Well theocracies imo are bad. I dont like to live in those. Nothing wrong with dictatorships and monarchies if the dictator or monarch is okay. The problem is that almost all governments are corrupt now. None of them are working very well and we need more options.

What about you? Tell me your opinions.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 1:46pm

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 12:52pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 12:29pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 11:29am:

Quote:

democracy and freedom

Because its bullshit. Its american sloganism. Nobody in their right mind supports that.

Can you elaborate please Spot? What makes you think no sane people support freedom and democracy?

Under the Islamic law you prefer, are non-Muslims allowed to vote? Are people allowed to promote anything other than Islamic law?

Do you support actual democracy?

Quote:

Well theocracies imo are bad. I dont like to live in those. Nothing wrong with dictatorships and monarchies if the dictator or monarch is okay. The problem is that almost all governments are corrupt now. None of them are working very well and we need more options.

What about you? Tell me your opinions.

I think monarchies, dictatorships and theocracies are all bad. I value the freedom we have to criticise religion and government and the chance we have to participate in real elections.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 2:35pm

Quote:

I think monarchies, dictatorships and theocracies are all bad. I value the freedom we have to criticise religion and government and the chance we have to participate in real elections.

Be nice if we actually had that freedom but we dont. We get to vote between tweedledee and tweedledum and we didnt pick either of them.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 10:13pm

What do you think of this spot?

abu_rashid wrote on Apr 13^th, 2010 at 4:09pm:

Quote:

Do you think that AQ/Taliban will stop fighting the west if they stop meddling?

If they negotiate a treaty now, yes. If not, then probably not. They'll fight till they become dominant, and then meddle in the U.S.

That's why now is a golden opportunity.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 6:18am

freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 10:13pm:

What do you think of this spot?

abu_rashid wrote on Apr 13^th, 2010 at 4:09pm:

Quote:

Do you think that AQ/Taliban will stop fighting the west if they stop meddling?

If they negotiate a treaty now, yes. If not, then probably not. They'll fight till they become dominant, and then meddle in the U.S.

That's why now is a golden opportunity.

I think it looks about right. While the west meddles in other ppls affairs unwanted they are creating the "terrorists". Has nothing to do with religion. Its human nature - you bugger with somebody and they get angry and bugger you right back.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 7:25am

Care to hazard a guess what such a treaty might look like, and what Abu would support if we didn't accept it?

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 10:31pm:

There really is no difference between religion and politics, both are concerned with organising the affairs of humanity.

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 7:27am

freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 7:25am:

Care to hazard a guess what such a treaty might look like, and what Abu would support if we didn't accept it?

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 10:31pm:

There really is no difference between religion and politics, both are concerned with organising the affairs of humanity.

how should i know? ask abu.

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 7:32am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 7:27am:

freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 7:25am:

Care to hazard a guess what such a treaty might look like, and what Abu would support if we didn't accept it?

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 10:31pm:

There really is no difference between religion and politics, both are concerned with organising the affairs of humanity.

how should i know? ask abu.

SOB

You want me to ask Abu a question? Won't that make him angry?

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by Spot of Borg on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 9:11am

freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 7:32am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 7:27am:

freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 7:25am:

Care to hazard a guess what such a treaty might look like, and what Abu would support if we didn't accept it?

abu_rashid wrote on Jul 28^th, 2012 at 10:31pm:

There really is no difference between religion and politics, both are concerned with organising the affairs of humanity.

how should i know? ask abu.

SOB

You want me to ask Abu a question? Won't that make him angry?

How should i know? Try it and see . .. . . are you a country?

SOB

Title: Re: Is This What We Can Look Forward To?
Post by freediver on Jul 29^th, 2012 at 7:32pm

Abu, what sort of conditions would you expect the Muslims to propose for such a treaty?

What action would you condone if the west didn't agree to such a treaty?