On most of these forums people are concerned with multiculturalism and how other cultures affect Australian society and people's views.

I am wondering how many people stop and think about the injustices that have been goievn to Aboriginal Australians. Im curious to discover, how many of you knew about the Northern Territoty Intervention and did not sign the petiton ot stop it??
How many of you realise that the racial discrimination act was suspended, leaving indigenous people without human rights, yet still did nothing???
why are australians so worried about trashing other cutlures when we cant even get it right for our own indigenous people.

Cassy wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 1:33pm:

why are australians so worried about trashing other cutlures when we cant even get it right for our own indigenous people.

That's a very paternalistic attitude you've got there.  Can't they look after themselves?

Also, I'm pretty sure human rights apply to all humans.  Aborigines are not exempt.

... wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 1:38pm:

Cassy wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 1:33pm: why are australians so worried about trashing other cutlures when we cant even get it right for our own indigenous people. That's a very paternalistic attitude you've got there.  Can't they look after themselves? Also, I'm pretty sure human rights apply to all humans.  Aborigines are not exempt.

i agree that human rights apply to all humans, which is why i am outraged that the Australian Government did not give this consideration to Aboriginal Australians, this is evident by them suspending the racial discrimination act, a decison they came up with in a matter of days.

and reffering to your narrow minded view of cant they look after themselves, thats just the thing, we havent let them look after themselves, we have interferred with the lives of Aboriginal Australians yet again, and people dont seem to do anything to try and stop it.what about self determination???

Cassy wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 1:48pm:

... wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 1:38pm: Cassy wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 1:33pm: why are australians so worried about trashing other cutlures when we cant even get it right for our own indigenous people. That's a very paternalistic attitude you've got there.  Can't they look after themselves? Also, I'm pretty sure human rights apply to all humans.  Aborigines are not exempt. i agree that human rights apply to all humans, which is why i am outraged that the Australian Government did not give this consideration to Aboriginal Australians, this is evident by them suspending the racial discrimination act, a decison they came up with in a matter of days. and reffering to your narrow minded view of cant they look after themselves, thats just the thing, we havent let them look after themselves, we have interferred with the lives of Aboriginal Australians yet again, and people dont seem to do anything to try and stop it.what about self determination???

Exactly - What about self determination?  Your entire argument reolves around "we" as in white australia benevolently caring for abos, as if they were nothing more than small children.  Well, even small children need to grow up and learn to stand on their own 2 feet some time.

So who is really discriminating here?  Those who want to treat abos as they would any other human being, or those who see them as lesser beings, in need of protection and handouts from the white man?

im saying quite the opposite to what you are accusing me of. ABORIGINAL people, not abos, need the opportunity for the governement to stay oput of there lives and let them live in there own culture. This has not happened since white settlement of Australia. Im not really sure where you get this idea that i want to protect them, when i am arguing for the Intervention to stop and for Aborignal people to have the same rights and freedoms as everyone else. Because the Intervention is suppose to be protecting them right??

Cassy wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 2:02pm:

im saying quite the opposite to what you are accusing me of. ABORIGINAL people, not abos, need the opportunity for the governement to stay oput of there lives and let them live in there own culture. This has not happened since white settlement of Australia. Im not really sure where you get this idea that i want to protect them, when i am arguing for the Intervention to stop and for Aborignal people to have the same rights and freedoms as everyone else. Because the Intervention is suppose to be protecting them right??

When their culture conflicts with the law of the land, the law wins.  Not always necesarily a good thing, but thats just the way it is.  I can't see anyway around it besides abos starting an independent nation where they'd be free to enact their own laws.  But what have they got to bargain with?  What have they got to support and sustain a nation? 

other cultures in the world can live in union with the law and other countries can leave their native people alone, alls i am saying is why cant we do the same thing. why do we let Aboriginal people live like we let other cultures live in Australian society. we are a multicultural country, yet Aboriginal people are still seen different from this, why?? why does the Governement make decisons for Aboriginals to take their rights and freedoms away without their input?

Cassy wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 2:31pm:

other cultures in the world can live in union with the law and other countries can leave their native people alone, alls i am saying is why cant we do the same thing. why do we let Aboriginal people live like we let other cultures live in Australian society. we are a multicultural country, yet Aboriginal people are still seen different from this, why?? why does the Governement make decisons for Aboriginals to take their rights and freedoms away without their input?

Becasue abos are not native people from other countries - they are unique culture(s), so what works for one group halway across the world, probably won't work as well here.  There is no one size fits all solution. 

Cassy wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 2:31pm:

other cultures in the world can live in union with the law and other countries can leave their native people alone, alls i am saying is why cant we do the same thing. why do we let Aboriginal people live like we let other cultures live in Australian society. we are a multicultural country, yet Aboriginal people are still seen different from this, why?? why does the Governement make decisons for Aboriginals to take their rights and freedoms away without their input?

It's a case of damned if we do and damned if we don't. If we leave them to drink themselves to death and engage in violence and sexual assault, we'll be blamed for allowing it to occur, if we go in, like we did with the intervention, we get people like you accusing us of meddling in their affairs.

We can't win.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 2:35pm:

Cassy wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 2:31pm: other cultures in the world can live in union with the law and other countries can leave their native people alone, alls i am saying is why cant we do the same thing. why do we let Aboriginal people live like we let other cultures live in Australian society. we are a multicultural country, yet Aboriginal people are still seen different from this, why?? why does the Governement make decisons for Aboriginals to take their rights and freedoms away without their input? It's a case of damned if we do and damned if we don't. If we leave them to drink themselves to death and engage in violence and sexual assault, we'll be blamed for allowing it to occur, if we go in, like we did with the intervention, we get people like you accusing us of meddling in their affairs. We can't win.

I take your point, however did anyone stop and think to ask for Aboriginal Australians input??? so the intervention could be better tailored to their culture? So Aboriginal people could take ownership over the problem and deal with it according to their culture with the support from the government?   

Cassy wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 2:49pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 2:35pm: Cassy wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 2:31pm: other cultures in the world can live in union with the law and other countries can leave their native people alone, alls i am saying is why cant we do the same thing. why do we let Aboriginal people live like we let other cultures live in Australian society. we are a multicultural country, yet Aboriginal people are still seen different from this, why?? why does the Governement make decisons for Aboriginals to take their rights and freedoms away without their input? It's a case of damned if we do and damned if we don't. If we leave them to drink themselves to death and engage in violence and sexual assault, we'll be blamed for allowing it to occur, if we go in, like we did with the intervention, we get people like you accusing us of meddling in their affairs. We can't win. I take your point, however did anyone stop and think to ask for Aboriginal Australians input??? so the intervention could be better tailored to their culture? So Aboriginal people could take ownership over the problem and deal with it according to their culture with the support from the government?

Okay. What would their input consist of?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 2:58pm:

Cassy wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 2:49pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 2:35pm: [quote author=5C7E6C6C661F0 link=1339126402/6#6 date=1339129881] I take your point, however did anyone stop and think to ask for Aboriginal Australians input??? so the intervention could be better tailored to their culture? So Aboriginal people could take ownership over the problem and deal with it according to their culture with the support from the government?    Okay. What would their input consist of?

I can imagine, i do nnot know exactly because i am not directly impacted by the Northern Territoy intervention or the suspension of the Racial Discrimination act. But i can imagin they would want input on how the intervention would be implemented, that it would be cutlurally sensitive, they would want to have a say that under the Northern Territory Intervention Aboriginal people should still have rights and freedoms, they cant even decide where they want to get their groceries from or what they want to buy. Im sure if the goivernment asked for their opinions they would agree that something should be done about the high rates of violence and sexual abuse, however it should be done in an appropriate manner and Aboriginal people should get a say on this. Dont you agree?? out yourself in their shoes

The intervention would never have come to pass had they taken responsibility for the problems within their communities.  Their inaction showed they didn't want to address the issue, so it was addressed for them.

... wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 3:50pm:

The intervention would never have come to pass had they taken responsibility for the problems within their communities.  Their inaction showed they didn't want to address the issue, so it was addressed for them.

the state acting like a "nanny" heh

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 3:52pm:

... wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 3:50pm: The intervention would never have come to pass had they taken responsibility for the problems within their communities.  Their inaction showed they didn't want to address the issue, so it was addressed for them. the state acting like a "nanny" heh SOB

Yep.  If white australia has to suffer under the coddling edicts of our benevolent dictators, so too can the abos.  That's equality.

Still, actual crimes were being committed in unacceptable numbers.  This wasn't just a simple case of meddling.

... wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 3:50pm:

The intervention would never have come to pass had they taken responsibility for the problems within their communities.  Their inaction showed they didn't want to address the issue, so it was addressed for them.

with what resources could they take action themselves???? it has been well publicised that Aboriginal people are living in the same standards, with the same access to resources as those in thrid world countries, how ever did you expect them to do this themselves. Aboriginal people were not inactive against addressing the issue, they cooperated with researchers and the human rights commission by giving them their stories, but telling them what their community was like.

Cassy wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 4:04pm:

... wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 3:50pm: The intervention would never have come to pass had they taken responsibility for the problems within their communities.  Their inaction showed they didn't want to address the issue, so it was addressed for them. with what resources could they take action themselves???? it has been well publicised that Aboriginal people are living in the same standards, with the same access to resources as those in thrid world countries, how ever did you expect them to do this themselves. Aboriginal people were not inactive against addressing the issue, they cooperated with researchers and the human rights commission by giving them their stories, but telling them what their community was like.

Are you serious?  How many "resources" does a community need to say "oi you! stop raping kids OK!"
They'd actually be better equipped to deal with it than we are, seeing as how their justice consists of spearing offenders, or giving them a hiding, whereas we are bound rules and regualtions about "humane treatment" and burdens of proof etc. 

Cassy wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 3:27pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 2:58pm: Cassy wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 2:49pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 2:35pm: [quote author=5C7E6C6C661F0 link=1339126402/6#6 date=1339129881] I take your point, however did anyone stop and think to ask for Aboriginal Australians input??? so the intervention could be better tailored to their culture? So Aboriginal people could take ownership over the problem and deal with it according to their culture with the support from the government?    Okay. What would their input consist of? I can imagine, i do nnot know exactly because i am not directly impacted by the Northern Territoy intervention or the suspension of the Racial Discrimination act. But i can imagin they would want input on how the intervention would be implemented, that it would be cutlurally sensitive, they would want to have a say that under the Northern Territory Intervention Aboriginal people should still have rights and freedoms, they cant even decide where they want to get their groceries from or what they want to buy. Im sure if the goivernment asked for their opinions they would agree that something should be done about the high rates of violence and sexual abuse, however it should be done in an appropriate manner and Aboriginal people should get a say on this. Dont you agree?? out yourself in their shoes

It doesn't sound like you have much of an idea what the Aboriginals want. I thought you were knowledgeable in this area considering your dislike of the intervention.

If you have a list of demands or guidelines the Aboriginals have outlined to correct these problems, let me know.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 4:15pm:

Cassy wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 3:27pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 2:58pm: Cassy wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 2:49pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 2:35pm: [quote author=5C7E6C6C661F0 link=1339126402/6#6 date=1339129881] I take your point, however did anyone stop and think to ask for Aboriginal Australians input??? so the intervention could be better tailored to their culture? So Aboriginal people could take ownership over the problem and deal with it according to their culture with the support from the government?    Okay. What would their input consist of? I can imagine, i do nnot know exactly because i am not directly impacted by the Northern Territoy intervention or the suspension of the Racial Discrimination act. But i can imagin they would want input on how the intervention would be implemented, that it would be cutlurally sensitive, they would want to have a say that under the Northern Territory Intervention Aboriginal people should still have rights and freedoms, they cant even decide where they want to get their groceries from or what they want to buy. Im sure if the goivernment asked for their opinions they would agree that something should be done about the high rates of violence and sexual abuse, however it should be done in an appropriate manner and Aboriginal people should get a say on this. Dont you agree?? out yourself in their shoes It doesn't sound like you have much of an idea what the Aboriginals want. I thought you were knowledgeable in this area considering your dislike of the intervention. If you have a list of demands or guidelines the Aboriginals have outlined to correct these problems, let me know.

Actually i have been doing research on this topic for a few months now, and am knowledgable in the area, however i do not feel comfortable sharing what I think Aboriginal people's input would be because i am not them, i am not in there situation so what gives me the right to say wht i think their input would be, its the same as what gives the government the right to take over their lives and huam rights

... wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 4:08pm:

Cassy wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 4:04pm: ... wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 3:50pm: The intervention would never have come to pass had they taken responsibility for the problems within their communities.  Their inaction showed they didn't want to address the issue, so it was addressed for them. with what resources could they take action themselves???? it has been well publicised that Aboriginal people are living in the same standards, with the same access to resources as those in thrid world countries, how ever did you expect them to do this themselves. Aboriginal people were not inactive against addressing the issue, they cooperated with researchers and the human rights commission by giving them their stories, but telling them what their community was like. Are you serious?  How many "resources" does a community need to say "oi you! stop raping kids OK!" They'd actually be better equipped to deal with it than we are, seeing as how their justice consists of spearing offenders, or giving them a hiding, whereas we are bound rules and regualtions about "humane treatment" and burdens of proof etc.

Aboriginal people too are bound by burdens and proof, why else would there be so many Aboriginal People in the justice system if as you say they are not bound by these rules? and yes i am serious that they need resources to be able to stop the violence and sexual abuse, services need to be put in place to guide Aborgininal people, to give them access to help if they want it, to give them early intervention to prevent violnce and sexual abuse occuring. These behavious are steming from there mothers and grandparents who have been traumatised by the stolen generation and assimilation policies. Aboriginal people are not to blame here. we are for not giving them the supporta nd guidence they need. And you say why do they need resources when you can just tell them 'oi you, stop raping that kid' do we do that in our society??? if its this easy how come there is still rape, abuse, violnce occuring in our society.

Cassy wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 4:37pm:

... wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 4:08pm: Cassy wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 4:04pm: ... wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 3:50pm: The intervention would never have come to pass had they taken responsibility for the problems within their communities.  Their inaction showed they didn't want to address the issue, so it was addressed for them. with what resources could they take action themselves???? it has been well publicised that Aboriginal people are living in the same standards, with the same access to resources as those in thrid world countries, how ever did you expect them to do this themselves. Aboriginal people were not inactive against addressing the issue, they cooperated with researchers and the human rights commission by giving them their stories, but telling them what their community was like. Are you serious?  How many "resources" does a community need to say "oi you! stop raping kids OK!" They'd actually be better equipped to deal with it than we are, seeing as how their justice consists of spearing offenders, or giving them a hiding, whereas we are bound rules and regualtions about "humane treatment" and burdens of proof etc.  Quote: Aboriginal people too are bound by burdens and proof, why else would there be so many Aboriginal People in the justice system if as you say they are not bound by these rules? Tribal law doesn't put people behind bars - that's the white mans justice system.  Abos in prison are there because they transgressed the laws of this country.  Tribal law would punish them differently, ie a spear in the leg, or a whack on the head. [quote] and yes i am serious that they need resources to be able to stop the violence and sexual abuse, services need to be put in place to guide Aborgininal people, to give them access to help if they want it, to give them early intervention to prevent violnce and sexual abuse occuring.

Hmm...sounds a lot like whitey imposing his beliefs and sytems on the poor O-pressed blackfellas.  Are you sure tahts' the best way for them to go about "practising their culture"?


Quote:

These behavious are steming from there mothers and grandparents who have been traumatised by the stolen generation and assimilation policies.

Yaaaaawn.


Quote:

Aboriginal people are not to blame here.

No, of course not.  Whitey forces them to rape their kids.


Quote:

we are for not giving them the supporta nd guidence they need.

So much for wanting autonomy. 



Quote:

And you say why do they need resources when you can just tell them 'oi you, stop raping that kid' do we do that in our society??? if its this easy how come there is still rape, abuse, violnce occuring in our society.

In the small communities we're talking about, with a maximum of a few hundred people, that is all it takes.  When populations grow to city size, it's harder to root out.  Think about it.  If a community has 100 people, and 10 of those are raping kids - why can't the 90 others stand against them?  They can of course - if only they wanted to. 

Cassy wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 4:37pm:

... wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 4:08pm: Cassy wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 4:04pm: ... wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 3:50pm: The intervention would never have come to pass had they taken responsibility for the problems within their communities.  Their inaction showed they didn't want to address the issue, so it was addressed for them. with what resources could they take action themselves???? it has been well publicised that Aboriginal people are living in the same standards, with the same access to resources as those in thrid world countries, how ever did you expect them to do this themselves. Aboriginal people were not inactive against addressing the issue, they cooperated with researchers and the human rights commission by giving them their stories, but telling them what their community was like. Are you serious?  How many "resources" does a community need to say "oi you! stop raping kids OK!" They'd actually be better equipped to deal with it than we are, seeing as how their justice consists of spearing offenders, or giving them a hiding, whereas we are bound rules and regualtions about "humane treatment" and burdens of proof etc.  Aboriginal people too are bound by burdens and proof, why else would there be so many Aboriginal People in the justice system if as you say they are not bound by these rules? and yes i am serious that they need resources to be able to stop the violence and sexual abuse, services need to be put in place to guide Aborgininal people, to give them access to help if they want it, to give them early intervention to prevent violnce and sexual abuse occuring. These behavious are steming from there mothers and grandparents who have been traumatised by the stolen generation and assimilation policies. Aboriginal people are not to blame here. we are for not giving them the supporta nd guidence they need. And you say why do they need resources when you can just tell them 'oi you, stop raping that kid' do we do that in our society??? if its this easy how come there is still rape, abuse, violnce occuring in our society.

Those committing the acts are to blame. You can't shift things like rape and battery onto the acts of some white people a few decades ago. This type of vague cause and effect opens the gates to all sorts of crimes being palmed off onto acts by some other race in the past.

Can the British blame the French everytime they do something wrong?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 5:13pm:

Cassy wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 4:37pm: ... wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 4:08pm: Cassy wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 4:04pm: ... wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 3:50pm: The intervention would never have come to pass had they taken responsibility for the problems within their communities.  Their inaction showed they didn't want to address the issue, so it was addressed for them. with what resources could they take action themselves???? it has been well publicised that Aboriginal people are living in the same standards, with the same access to resources as those in thrid world countries, how ever did you expect them to do this themselves. Aboriginal people were not inactive against addressing the issue, they cooperated with researchers and the human rights commission by giving them their stories, but telling them what their community was like. Are you serious?  How many "resources" does a community need to say "oi you! stop raping kids OK!" They'd actually be better equipped to deal with it than we are, seeing as how their justice consists of spearing offenders, or giving them a hiding, whereas we are bound rules and regualtions about "humane treatment" and burdens of proof etc.  Aboriginal people too are bound by burdens and proof, why else would there be so many Aboriginal People in the justice system if as you say they are not bound by these rules? and yes i am serious that they need resources to be able to stop the violence and sexual abuse, services need to be put in place to guide Aborgininal people, to give them access to help if they want it, to give them early intervention to prevent violnce and sexual abuse occuring. These behavious are steming from there mothers and grandparents who have been traumatised by the stolen generation and assimilation policies. Aboriginal people are not to blame here. we are for not giving them the supporta nd guidence they need. And you say why do they need resources when you can just tell them 'oi you, stop raping that kid' do we do that in our society??? if its this easy how come there is still rape, abuse, violnce occuring in our society. Those committing the acts are to blame. You can't shift things like rape and battery onto the acts of some white people a few decades ago. This type of vague cause and effect opens the gates to all sorts of crimes being palmed off onto acts by some other race in the past. Can the British blame the French everytime they do something wrong?

True, however we need to take some responsibility for what is happening in the Northern Territory,and i would expect the french to take some responsibility also. why dont peopple take respionsibility, or at least understand that people are living in dyer circumstances becasue of the impacts we have had on their culture?   

Dear Cassy,

When the tall-ships sailed into Botany Bay more than just 200 years ago - yesterday.
A group of Aboriginals ('Ophirians' <Ophir> as the Africans called them via very old 'rumors' that go with Lemuria and Mu Mu) upon a hill...

One yelled "Invasion!" (not that this continent of peoples ever knew what an invasion was)
Another yelled "Freedom!" and bought tickets on the next Virgin Airline to go 'walkabout' around the world.
Another "Renters!" and counted the $$$ that no other peoples in the world get for 'nuthin'.
Another woke up and said "There goes the Dreamtime of being asleep for so long."


All in all, when you look at it. The Aboriginals had 40,000 years up their sleeve and only now do they realise that this part of the world never really belonged to them afterall = the Africans sold them out!
So if I was a Abo, I would just get on with the fact that I am no different to anyone else in the world - for something lost is something gained.
Lose Australia and Gain the World.

...whattaya think eh? :-?

Cassy wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 4:13pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 5:13pm: Cassy wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 4:37pm: ... wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 4:08pm: Cassy wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 4:04pm: ... wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 3:50pm: The intervention would never have come to pass had they taken responsibility for the problems within their communities.  Their inaction showed they didn't want to address the issue, so it was addressed for them. with what resources could they take action themselves???? it has been well publicised that Aboriginal people are living in the same standards, with the same access to resources as those in thrid world countries, how ever did you expect them to do this themselves. Aboriginal people were not inactive against addressing the issue, they cooperated with researchers and the human rights commission by giving them their stories, but telling them what their community was like. Are you serious?  How many "resources" does a community need to say "oi you! stop raping kids OK!" They'd actually be better equipped to deal with it than we are, seeing as how their justice consists of spearing offenders, or giving them a hiding, whereas we are bound rules and regualtions about "humane treatment" and burdens of proof etc.  Aboriginal people too are bound by burdens and proof, why else would there be so many Aboriginal People in the justice system if as you say they are not bound by these rules? and yes i am serious that they need resources to be able to stop the violence and sexual abuse, services need to be put in place to guide Aborgininal people, to give them access to help if they want it, to give them early intervention to prevent violnce and sexual abuse occuring. These behavious are steming from there mothers and grandparents who have been traumatised by the stolen generation and assimilation policies. Aboriginal people are not to blame here. we are for not giving them the supporta nd guidence they need. And you say why do they need resources when you can just tell them 'oi you, stop raping that kid' do we do that in our society??? if its this easy how come there is still rape, abuse, violnce occuring in our society. Those committing the acts are to blame. You can't shift things like rape and battery onto the acts of some white people a few decades ago. This type of vague cause and effect opens the gates to all sorts of crimes being palmed off onto acts by some other race in the past. Can the British blame the French everytime they do something wrong? True, however we need to take some responsibility for what is happening in the Northern Territory,and i would expect the french to take some responsibility also. why dont peopple take respionsibility, or at least understand that people are living in dyer circumstances becasue of the impacts we have had on their culture?

The French are irrelevant in this case. I used that as an example of the 1066 Norman conquest of Britain.

If 'we' collectively are to take responsibility for Aboriginal crime, by that I believe you mean those of British descent, do Aboriginals have to also take collective responsibility whenever someone of their race commits a crime?
For example, an uncle of mine got beat up on a bridge in Lismore a few years ago by some Abo's. Should all Abo's take responsibility here? Also, when a mate of mine got a beer bottle smashed against his face in Grafton one afternoon by an Abo, should all Abo's take responsibility here? If not, why not? Why is it one rule for the whites of British descent and a different one for Abo's?

i take your point that by colonisation the world was opened up to Aborginal people. However as i made this point earlier in the discussion, with what money or resources are Aboriginal people going to be able to explore the world with?

and i disagree with your thought of Aboriginal people should just get on with it as they are no dofferent to anyone else. I see them as different from everyone else, the same way i see refugees and people from other cutlural backgrounds as different. We cant expect them to get over the adversities they have gone through. we cant expect them just to suck it up and deal with it becasue thats the way it is.

for something lost is forever lost and will never be regained and due to this a culture, an experince an individual will never be the same. how can we ask Aboriginal people to be thankful for having the world opened up to them when they never asked for it? when all it has brought is discrimination, suffering and a lack of human rights and equality?

i am curious have any of you actually thought about what it would be like to be an Aborginal in any of these circumstances??

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 6:37pm:

Cassy wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 4:13pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 5:13pm: Cassy wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 4:37pm: ... wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 4:08pm: Cassy wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 4:04pm: ... wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 3:50pm: The intervention would never have come to pass had they taken responsibility for the problems within their communities.  Their inaction showed they didn't want to address the issue, so it was addressed for them. with what resources could they take action themselves???? it has been well publicised that Aboriginal people are living in the same standards, with the same access to resources as those in thrid world countries, how ever did you expect them to do this themselves. Aboriginal people were not inactive against addressing the issue, they cooperated with researchers and the human rights commission by giving them their stories, but telling them what their community was like. Are you serious?  How many "resources" does a community need to say "oi you! stop raping kids OK!" They'd actually be better equipped to deal with it than we are, seeing as how their justice consists of spearing offenders, or giving them a hiding, whereas we are bound rules and regualtions about "humane treatment" and burdens of proof etc.  Aboriginal people too are bound by burdens and proof, why else would there be so many Aboriginal People in the justice system if as you say they are not bound by these rules? and yes i am serious that they need resources to be able to stop the violence and sexual abuse, services need to be put in place to guide Aborgininal people, to give them access to help if they want it, to give them early intervention to prevent violnce and sexual abuse occuring. These behavious are steming from there mothers and grandparents who have been traumatised by the stolen generation and assimilation policies. Aboriginal people are not to blame here. we are for not giving them the supporta nd guidence they need. And you say why do they need resources when you can just tell them 'oi you, stop raping that kid' do we do that in our society??? if its this easy how come there is still rape, abuse, violnce occuring in our society. Those committing the acts are to blame. You can't shift things like rape and battery onto the acts of some white people a few decades ago. This type of vague cause and effect opens the gates to all sorts of crimes being palmed off onto acts by some other race in the past. Can the British blame the French everytime they do something wrong? True, however we need to take some responsibility for what is happening in the Northern Territory,and i would expect the french to take some responsibility also. why dont peopple take respionsibility, or at least understand that people are living in dyer circumstances becasue of the impacts we have had on their culture?    The French are irrelevant in this case. I used that as an example of the 1066 Norman conquest of Britain. If 'we' collectively are to take responsibility for Aboriginal crime, by that I believe you mean those of British descent, do Aboriginals have to also take collective responsibility whenever someone of their race commits a crime? For example, an uncle of mine got beat up on a bridge in Lismore a few years ago by some Abo's. Should all Abo's take responsibility here? Also, when a mate of mine got a beer bottle smashed against his face in Grafton one afternoon by an Abo, should all Abo's take responsibility here? If not, why not? Why is it one rule for the whites of British descent and a different one for Abo's?

By we i am meaning anyone who is a decendent of those who impinged injustices on Aboriginal people.

and no i dont think Aboriginal people should take responsibility when anyone who is Aboriginal commits a crime. why should they, no other culture takes responsibility for crimes commited by one person, or even a few people.

however this argument is different, i am talking about taking responsibility for ruining a culture, for forcing them to assimilate to our culture, for trying to 'bread' their culture away and for the way they are living today. this is totally different to commiting one crime, this is many injustices committed by one culture to another that have had serious consequences, not only on one person but on generations of Aboriginal people. how can we not take responsibility for the issues Aboriginal people are facing today??

Cassy wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 6:55pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 6:37pm: Cassy wrote on Jun 9th, 2012 at 4:13pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 5:13pm: Cassy wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 4:37pm: ... wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 4:08pm: Cassy wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 4:04pm: ... wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 3:50pm: The intervention would never have come to pass had they taken responsibility for the problems within their communities.  Their inaction showed they didn't want to address the issue, so it was addressed for them. with what resources could they take action themselves???? it has been well publicised that Aboriginal people are living in the same standards, with the same access to resources as those in thrid world countries, how ever did you expect them to do this themselves. Aboriginal people were not inactive against addressing the issue, they cooperated with researchers and the human rights commission by giving them their stories, but telling them what their community was like. Are you serious?  How many "resources" does a community need to say "oi you! stop raping kids OK!" They'd actually be better equipped to deal with it than we are, seeing as how their justice consists of spearing offenders, or giving them a hiding, whereas we are bound rules and regualtions about "humane treatment" and burdens of proof etc.  Aboriginal people too are bound by burdens and proof, why else would there be so many Aboriginal People in the justice system if as you say they are not bound by these rules? and yes i am serious that they need resources to be able to stop the violence and sexual abuse, services need to be put in place to guide Aborgininal people, to give them access to help if they want it, to give them early intervention to prevent violnce and sexual abuse occuring. These behavious are steming from there mothers and grandparents who have been traumatised by the stolen generation and assimilation policies. Aboriginal people are not to blame here. we are for not giving them the supporta nd guidence they need. And you say why do they need resources when you can just tell them 'oi you, stop raping that kid' do we do that in our society??? if its this easy how come there is still rape, abuse, violnce occuring in our society. Those committing the acts are to blame. You can't shift things like rape and battery onto the acts of some white people a few decades ago. This type of vague cause and effect opens the gates to all sorts of crimes being palmed off onto acts by some other race in the past. Can the British blame the French everytime they do something wrong? True, however we need to take some responsibility for what is happening in the Northern Territory,and i would expect the french to take some responsibility also. why dont peopple take respionsibility, or at least understand that people are living in dyer circumstances becasue of the impacts we have had on their culture?    The French are irrelevant in this case. I used that as an example of the 1066 Norman conquest of Britain. If 'we' collectively are to take responsibility for Aboriginal crime, by that I believe you mean those of British descent, do Aboriginals have to also take collective responsibility whenever someone of their race commits a crime? For example, an uncle of mine got beat up on a bridge in Lismore a few years ago by some Abo's. Should all Abo's take responsibility here? Also, when a mate of mine got a beer bottle smashed against his face in Grafton one afternoon by an Abo, should all Abo's take responsibility here? If not, why not? Why is it one rule for the whites of British descent and a different one for Abo's? By we i am meaning anyone who is a decendent of those who impinged injustices on Aboriginal people. and no i dont think Aboriginal people should take responsibility when anyone who is Aboriginal commits a crime. why should they, no other culture takes responsibility for crimes commited by one person, or even a few people. however this argument is different, i am talking about taking responsibility for ruining a culture, for forcing them to assimilate to our culture, for trying to 'bread' their culture away and for the way they are living today. this is totally different to commiting one crime, this is many injustices committed by one culture to another that have had serious consequences, not only on one person but on generations of Aboriginal people. how can we not take responsibility for the issues Aboriginal people are facing today??

Just as I thought. One rule for them and another for us.

Can we step back for a minute. Are we talking about apologizing for Aboriginal crimes such as violence and sexual assault, or are talking about apologizing for the British conquest of Australia? You've conflated two issues here. Which is the central issue?

these two issues are one in the same. we are not appologising for the Britsh conquest of Australia, but for the way the British treated Aboriginal people, and still treat Aboriginal people. Hence we should be partly (becasue Aborignal people need to take responsibility as well)appologising for Aboriginal crimes such as sexual assualt and violence becasue the policies and racist treatment that was implemented by the British has caused this type of behaviour, due to it being familiar and what they have been brought up with, becasue Aboriginals have been raped, abused and so on by British people too. I am just asking for people to pay attention to what is happening to Aboriginals and to stop blaming them for what there culture by societies belief has become. and to also realise that as a society we really have not done a great deal to make up for the injustices that have been impossed upon Aborginal people, and to my disgust keep on happening.

Cassy wrote on Jun 9^th, 2012 at 8:12pm:

these two issues are one in the same. we are not appologising for the Britsh conquest of Australia, but for the way the British treated Aboriginal people, and still treat Aboriginal people. Hence we should be partly (becasue Aborignal people need to take responsibility as well)appologising for Aboriginal crimes such as sexual assualt and violence becasue the policies and racist treatment that was implemented by the British has caused this type of behaviour, due to it being familiar and what they have been brought up with, becasue Aboriginals have been raped, abused and so on by British people too. I am just asking for people to pay attention to what is happening to Aboriginals and to stop blaming them for what there culture by societies belief has become. and to also realise that as a society we really have not done a great deal to make up for the injustices that have been impossed upon Aborginal people, and to my disgust keep on happening.

Just blaming others for your actions leads nowhere. This is partly why they are in the state they're in; because it's always someone else's fault on how they act, never their own. This puts them in the mindset that it's not their behaviour that has to be modified, it's the others. Such thinking leads to just repeating the same behaviour rather than overcoming it.
Is a bunch of white people taking responsibility really going to stop rapes and violence? I doubt it, they're just words from people who are alien to the crimes committed. It's an abstract, symbolic act that does nothing practical to stopping the crimes.
The Abo's involved need to be disciplined accordingly, just like whites are in the general community. If you rape or beat someone, then be prepared to be punished and get it through your head that it's just not smacking on. 

Descendents remember 1838 massacre at Myall Creek

One of the descendents of a boy who survived the Myall Creek Massacre in 1838 says today's anniversary of the slaughter of 28 Aboriginal people is what reconciliation is about.

Hundreds will attend the memorial, west of Inverell in northern New South Wales, to remember the day 174 years ago when white stockmen murdered the unarmed Wirrayaraay people.

Seven of the 12 killers were eventually hanged, making it the first time white men were tried for the murder of Indigenous Australians.

Sue Blacklock, the mother of footballer Nathan Blacklock, helped found the modern-day remembrance service in 1998 and says it was an amazing day...

...Ivan Roberts, from the Myall Creek Memorial Committee, says the slaughter was a shameful moment in Australian history but a moment that must be remembered.

"It's quite a simple, but in a way, sacred event where people from Aboriginal but also non-Indigenous backgrounds come together to acknowledge something that's happened in the past," he said.

"It's under-stated but it's very gentle and very encouraging for those committed to reconciliation."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-10/descendents-remember-1838-massacre-at-myall-creek/4062504

Cassy,

The problem with the last 200 years is that the Aboriginal people 'allowed' themselves to be treated like so and the aboriginal people would have known no better if not for comparisons with other cultures that were now open to them.

For 40,000+ years the Aboriginal peoples have been imprisoned by a lack of stimulation from outside influences. They stopped growing a long long time ago. Genetically they became weak as well because of a finite gene pool.
In other words - Aboriginal culture stopped 40,000 years ago. They have never 'lived' they only survived.
Now what the British or anyone else for that matter did to the Aboriginals was in no way different to what has been done to themselves or anyone else anywhere else for that matter. Read about what the Romans did to the animal-skinned Britons long ago.

Now, whats really a massacre? I would say how nearly two-thirds of the entire aboriginal population being wiped out by a simple cold and flu. Whose fault is that? The British?
Hell no. Why should one race be condemned for having a stronger immunity and weapon? How long do we have to baby the aboriginal race? A race that cries 'bitterly' and holds onto a past that isolated them and stagnated them.

My advice to a race who has a 40,000 year history - though in truth, it is only probably a few thousand years old in regards to the rest being nothing more than repetative stagnated 'survival'.
"Let go of the Past" Forget being aboriginal, forget being British, forget being anyone else but an Australian in the here and now.

If Australia becomes a Republic - it means the slate will be wiped clean and no more 'aboriginal $$$ payments, etc" Everyone is treated EQUAL and its survival of the fittest for those who wish to 'live'.

Take me for example: I don't moan about Gallipoli: I know the Turks dug deeper than our so-called mercenary 'diggers', to protect their own lands from our invasive troops. Good on them as too the Vietnamese. Just because they are from here - doesn't necessarily make their actions 'right'.
The term 'digger' is a defensive word and as of yet, only when Nippon attacked our shores have I seen our troops worthy enough to use that title - other than that, they are just invaders by default for other nations. Nothing to be proud of.

So with that said.
I think aboriginals should start celebrating and focusing on their 'future' rather than their past ...or they will be left in the past and it will be no-one's fault but their own.

Still not convinced?
Well lets just say, that the WORLD is an amazing place and even this part of the world has its part to play in the BIGGER PICTURE of it all, regardless of what the Aboriginal people might think. The world will keep turning...


An American Indian held feathers and cried "I am one with the sky spirit"
A true American built a Space Shuttle and took the world with him up into heaven.

So please, stop holding us and everyone else 'back' from ...change.
"If it ain't broke - don't fix it" many say against a Republic. But that's the problem right there - It doesn't need to be broke, to be changed and made even 'better'.

Forget the Dreamtime and wake up.

JASIGNATURE POSTED "I think aboriginals should start celebrating and focusing on their 'future' rather than their past ...or they will be left in the past and it will be no-one's fault but their own."

i am curious as to how you think they should just forget or move on from their past when they are constantly reminded of it everyday becasue of the disadvantage they are living in?
people cant just get over things, what about all those people who have witnessed a loved one dieing, or someone being raped, or seen a tsunami wipe out a town, do you think these people can get on with the future and not have the past affect them, their lives, the decisons they make?? Aboriginal people are in the same boat as these people, they are left with post-trauatic stress disorder, mental illnesses and so on.

you say "how long do we have to baby them" and i say we dont baby them, we are trying to make up for all the injustices we have caused to a whole race of people! if you think its Aboriginal peoples fault for the way they are, for everything that is occuring in their communities why dont other people agree with you, why do you think you are in the minority? Australians have moved on from this racist view of Aboriginal poeple to accepting responsibility that we have screwed up an entire race. why are you living back in the days when people were racist and naive, when are you going to step inot the future and take responsibility?

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Jun 10^th, 2012 at 1:04pm:

An American Indian held feathers and cried "I am one with the sky spirit" A true American built a Space Shuttle and took the world with him up into heaven.

The Russians beat the American to space. Russian shuttles still fly up to the Russian space station. Do they Americans still fly up to their space station? No, because they never even had one in the first place.

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/146084main_yurig_516.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Gagarin

Call for memorial for first men hanged in Melbourne

http://images.theage.com.au/2012/06/07/3358388/art-toscano-420x0.jpg
Joseph Toscano (left) and Robbie Thorpe call for a memorial for the first people to be hanged in Melbourne.

BURIED beneath the tarmac and tourist trinkets of the Queen Victoria Market lie the bones of two men, condemned as bloodthirsty outlaws and hanged in the shadow of the old Melbourne Gaol.

But unlike bushranger Ned Kelly, most Victorians have never heard of Tunnerminnerwait and Maulboyheenner, Aboriginal fighters who defied the colonial authorities and who were the first people executed in Victoria.

Now they will be remembered in a memorial at the site of their execution, on Franklin Street behind the City Baths, as part of an indigenous heritage plan being developed by the City of Melbourne.


http://images.theage.com.au/2012/06/07/3358377/art-353-aborigines-200x0.jpg
Illustrations from the State Library archives depict Maulboyheenner (left) and Tunnerminnerwait.


For five years activist Dr Joe Toscano and a committee of supporters - including patron and Boonwurrung elder Carolyn Briggs - have been lobbying the council to commemorate the two men, saying it was important to acknowledge there was resistance to colonisation in Victoria.

''What this will do is give a focus to this city's indigenous past and present,'' Dr Toscano said. ''What could be more appropriate than recognising the ultimate sacrifice that was made by two of the men in this revolt?''

Tunnerminnerwait and Maulboyheenner were among 16 Tasmanian Aborigines who were brought to the new town of Melbourne in 1839 by the so-called Protector of Aborigines, George Robinson, as intermediaries with the Victorian Aborigines. In 1841 five of the group - two men and three women - stole two guns and waged a six-week, guerilla-style campaign in the Dandenongs and the Mornington Peninsula, burning houses and killing two sealers.

They evaded their pursuers by walking 50 kilometres a day, but were later caught and the two men found guilty of murder, despite defence lawyer Redmond Barry (who sentenced Ned Kelly to hang 40 years later) questioning the legal basis of British authority over Aborigines. A crowd of 5000 gathered to watch the execution on January 20, 1842, and the bodies were stripped of their clothes and buried in wooden coffins in the city's cemetery, now the Queen Victoria Market.

Historian and writer Tony Birch said the deaths of the two men highlighted the incapacity of the British colonial society to give regard to indigenous sovereignty. ''The deaths of these two men convey the reality that the Port Phillip district was 'settled' with violence on the part of colonial society … in commemorating their lives and death, we remember other indigenous people who have acted accordingly,'' Dr Birch said.

Dr Toscano wants the City of Melbourne to turn the site into public space and Dr Birch said any commemoration should go further than simply putting names and dates on a plaque.

Lord mayor Robert Doyle, Greens councillor Cathy Oke and ALP member councillor Jennifer Kanis - both contenders for the state seat of Melbourne - and councillor Jackie Watts all support the memorial push.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/call-for-memorial-for-first-men-hanged-in-melbourne-20120607-1zyy2.html

Cassy wrote on Jun 11^th, 2012 at 8:31pm:

JASIGNATURE POSTED "I think aboriginals should start celebrating and focusing on their 'future' rather than their past ...or they will be left in the past and it will be no-one's fault but their own." i am curious as to how you think they should just forget or move on from their past when they are constantly reminded of it everyday becasue of the disadvantage they are living in? people cant just get over things, what about all those people who have witnessed a loved one dieing, or someone being raped, or seen a tsunami wipe out a town, do you think these people can get on with the future and not have the past affect them, their lives, the decisons they make?? Aboriginal people are in the same boat as these people, they are left with post-trauatic stress disorder, mental illnesses and so on. you say "how long do we have to baby them" and i say we dont baby them, we are trying to make up for all the injustices we have caused to a whole race of people! if you think its Aboriginal peoples fault for the way they are, for everything that is occuring in their communities why dont other people agree with you, why do you think you are in the minority? Australians have moved on from this racist view of Aboriginal poeple to accepting responsibility that we have screwed up an entire race. why are you living back in the days when people were racist and naive, when are you going to step inot the future and take responsibility?

As I stated previously, any responsibility taken by 'us' will be symbolic at best. It will have absolutely no practical effect on the ground. They need to be taught some things are wrong, and that there are consequences to actions.

But correct me if i am wrong: Show me the practical causal link between whites taking responsibility and the cessation of rapes and violence.

Quote:

you say "how long do we have to baby them" and i say we dont baby them, we are trying to make up for all the injustices we have caused to a whole race of people! if you think its Aboriginal peoples fault for the way they are, for everything that is occuring in their communities why dont other people agree with you, why do you think you are in the minority? Australians have moved on from this racist view of Aboriginal poeple to accepting responsibility that we have screwed up an entire race. why are you living back in the days when people were racist and naive, when are you going to step inot the future and take responsibility?

ooh OOH pick me PICK ME!

Is it because the media and academia are fully committed to the oppressor/oppressed model and so view everything through that lens, regardless of it's relation to reality?

... wrote on Jun 14^th, 2012 at 10:22am:

Quote: you say "how long do we have to baby them" and i say we dont baby them, we are trying to make up for all the injustices we have caused to a whole race of people! if you think its Aboriginal peoples fault for the way they are, for everything that is occuring in their communities why dont other people agree with you, why do you think you are in the minority? Australians have moved on from this racist view of Aboriginal poeple to accepting responsibility that we have screwed up an entire race. why are you living back in the days when people were racist and naive, when are you going to step inot the future and take responsibility? ooh OOH pick me PICK ME! Is it because the media and academia are fully committed to the oppressor/oppressed model and so view everything through that lens, regardless of it's relation to reality?

Sure - the media and academia just make it up. They're not responding to reports and white papers published over the last few years about the contrasting living conditions of Aboriginals and whites, or the effect of child removals, or third world health conditions, or incarceration rates, or sexual abuse, or all the rest.

They just like writing about the oppressed/oppressor model, even though we haven't culled any blacks for years.

I've a good mind to write to Piers Ackerman and give him a piece of my mind. 

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 10:19am:

... wrote on Jun 14th, 2012 at 10:22am: Quote: you say "how long do we have to baby them" and i say we dont baby them, we are trying to make up for all the injustices we have caused to a whole race of people! if you think its Aboriginal peoples fault for the way they are, for everything that is occuring in their communities why dont other people agree with you, why do you think you are in the minority? Australians have moved on from this racist view of Aboriginal poeple to accepting responsibility that we have screwed up an entire race. why are you living back in the days when people were racist and naive, when are you going to step inot the future and take responsibility? ooh OOH pick me PICK ME! Is it because the media and academia are fully committed to the oppressor/oppressed model and so view everything through that lens, regardless of it's relation to reality? Sure - the media and academia just make it up. They're not responding to reports and white papers published over the last few years about the contrasting living conditions of Aboriginals and whites, or the effect of child removals, or third world health conditions, or incarceration rates, or sexual abuse, or all the rest. They just like writing about the oppressed/oppressor model, even though we haven't culled any blacks for years. I've a good mind to write to Piers Ackerman and give him a piece of my mind.

Oh no, the abominable standard of living for many abos is true enough. 
Of course, theres never any mention of them even so much as contributing to their own misery, let alone causing it.

You mustn't have viewed much media over the last few years then, Honky. You haven't heard of Noel Pearson?

He's an Abo, by the way.

But.....but how could I have been brainwashed by rightwing propaganda if I haven't viewed much media?  Cos make no mistake, brainwashing is the only possible reason why one wouldn't conform with the mainstream narrative.  (?)

It just don't add up....help me karnal. 

Cassy wrote on Jun 8^th, 2012 at 2:49pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 2:35pm: Cassy wrote on Jun 8th, 2012 at 2:31pm: other cultures in the world can live in union with the law and other countries can leave their native people alone, alls i am saying is why cant we do the same thing. why do we let Aboriginal people live like we let other cultures live in Australian society. we are a multicultural country, yet Aboriginal people are still seen different from this, why?? why does the Governement make decisons for Aboriginals to take their rights and freedoms away without their input? It's a case of damned if we do and damned if we don't. If we leave them to drink themselves to death and engage in violence and sexual assault, we'll be blamed for allowing it to occur, if we go in, like we did with the intervention, we get people like you accusing us of meddling in their affairs. We can't win. I take your point, however did anyone stop and think to ask for Aboriginal Australians input??? so the intervention could be better tailored to their culture? So Aboriginal people could take ownership over the problem and deal with it according to their culture with the support from the government?

Not all Indigenous academics were against the intervention.

I agree with Morning Mist here - our politicians must walk this line very carefully.

PC discourse doesn't change the fact that children are abused in Indig communities at alarming rates out of step with the rest of the country. Suicide rates are higher. Spousal abuse rates are higher. Violence against women in general.

There are no easy answers and I'm not completely sure that intervention was a helpful step on the pathway to a solution, but something needed and still needs to be done to address issues of disproportionate rates of abuse and addiction and poverty in Indigenous communities. Living conditions in some areas rival those of third world countries and we should be ashamed of that as a nation.

(I haven't read page 2 and 3 yet)

I'm not against the intervention either. Many female elders have come out to support it.

The lack of consultation, however, needs to be addressed, along with the anti-descrimination exemption. Keeping people alive is more important than overriding a bit of anti-descrimination legislation, but I can't see why you can't do both.

Why not apply the same measures to people NOT living on Aboriginal communities? The problem for Aboriginals is that they see one rule applying to them, and another to non-Aboriginals. And they'd be right.

Problem is, the Commonwealth is only acting in the NT. There's no intervention in the states. From memory, it was meant to act as a sort of pilot program. It's now 5 years on, and I haven't heard about anything being rolled out in the states, despite the odd premier making encouraging noises. The cost, of course, would be huge.

What O'Farrell's anounced in NSW sounds very promising: schools as hubs for health care, welfare, early childhood education and other local issues. That's engagement.

Sending troops in might look good on the 6 o'clock news, but working WITH people on the ground is much more effective. Schools just sit there after 4pm - why not make use of them?

... wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 10:47am:

But.....but how could I have been brainwashed by rightwing propaganda if I haven't viewed much media?

Easy. Get your information from Amerika - Fox News and that Free Republic website you like - the one with all the scientific proof.

In Amerika, the blacks are called Injuns. Ours are called Abos - as you so rightly point out.

There's a few differences. For a start, ours are darker than theirs. Also, they've been here for 50,000 years. Another interesting fact: they invented a stick.

That's about all you need to know, really. Otherwise, blacks are the same wherever you go. They have lower genes and less brain cells than us, and we're more superior than them in general (N=500) - check the scientific website for an abstract.

they ban racist posts on freerepublic btw

if wesley actually posted on there he'd be banned quick smart

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:05pm:

... wrote on Jun 15th, 2012 at 10:47am: But.....but how could I have been brainwashed by rightwing propaganda if I haven't viewed much media?  Easy. Get your information from Amerika - Fox News and that Free Republic website you like - the one with all the scientific proof. In Amerika, the blacks are called Injuns. Ours are called Abos - as you so rightly point out. There's a few differences. For a start, ours are darker than theirs. Also, they've been here for 50,000 years. Another interesting fact: they invented a stick. That's about all you need to know, really. Otherwise, blacks are the same wherever you go. They have lower genes and less brain cells than us, and we're more superior than them in general (N=500) - check the scientific website for an abstract.

Never viewed Fox news in my life and I've heard "free republic" mentioned, but could count on one finger the times Ive visited it, if at all.

Please help karnal.  I just know that underneath your thick coating of baloney, you're a wise man indeed. 

Well I just visited freerepublic and can safely say I've never seen it before.  Doesn't do anything for me, but induce yawning. 

yeah it sucks

... wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 1:09pm:

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 15th, 2012 at 1:05pm: ... wrote on Jun 15th, 2012 at 10:47am: But.....but how could I have been brainwashed by rightwing propaganda if I haven't viewed much media?  Easy. Get your information from Amerika - Fox News and that Free Republic website you like - the one with all the scientific proof. In Amerika, the blacks are called Injuns. Ours are called Abos - as you so rightly point out. There's a few differences. For a start, ours are darker than theirs. Also, they've been here for 50,000 years. Another interesting fact: they invented a stick. That's about all you need to know, really. Otherwise, blacks are the same wherever you go. They have lower genes and less brain cells than us, and we're more superior than them in general (N=500) - check the scientific website for an abstract. Never viewed Fox news in my life and I've heard "free republic" mentioned, but could count on one finger the times Ive visited it, if at all. Please help karnal.  I just know that underneath your thick coating of baloney, you're a wise man indeed.

Thanks, Honky, I'd love to help. It's good that you only posted that one freerepublic link - just that once. You haven't seen Fox News? Ever? Gee, you'd love it.

Do you read Quadrant? That's a nice white publication that usually runs lots of articles on Abos. It's what you'd call a Conservative publication.

There's a think tank called the Bennelong Society - lots of information on Abo drug and alcohol issues and personal responsibility. The Institute of Public Affairs also addresses Abo policy. Gerard Henderson used to be its director.

The Cape York Institute does a fair bit on policy - it works in partnership with Griffith University. It encourages personal responsibility and Abo leadership - one of its crusades is welfare reform. It advised the government on the NT intervention, and Mr Howard was a big fan. Mr Abbott visits annually.

So as you can see, there are a few Australian media publications and academia organisations that follow a politically conservative route. Aboriginal groups are often very Conservative. Many of them are monarchists, there are a number of veteran's organisations, there are a number of church groups, and yes, honky-tonk music is very popular among Abos. Slim Dusty is still a big favourite. 

I hope I've been able to help in some small way.

Did I post a freerepublic link? 

*shrugs*

Can't say i remember, but it obviously stuck in your craw.  So to put your mind at ease, IF i've posted a link, it would have been becasue I'd seen an article someplace or other and needed to google to find it again.  Freerepublic would have been on the first page of search results.  You know articles are often published on more than one website don't you?

Quadrant is boring too.  I have better poo to browse than mainstream conservative snoozefests.

Soooo...are you going anywhere with this?

... wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 4:35pm:

Soooo...are you going anywhere with this?

Not really, Honky. I was just trying to help.


... wrote on Jun 14^th, 2012 at 10:22am:

Is it because the media and academia are fully committed to the oppressor/oppressed model and so view everything through that lens, regardless of it's relation to reality?

It's good that you have better poo to peruse. Perhaps you watch SBS. They aknowledge the traditional owners of the land, the Gammeraigal people.

Excellent. 

Thanks to your help I can now confirm that a website I had never visited is boring. 

Keep up the good work.

this thread may contain images of and or mention the deceased

where's the disclaimer, people?

oh wait we don't have to worry about an abo being offended by it - they don't read!

waka waka waka

... wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 5:26pm:

Excellent.  Thanks to your help I can now confirm that a website I had never visited is boring.  Keep up the good work.

No problem. Maybe you can put the website behind you and work to address the problems with the Abos. It sounds like you have some really good ideas.

Would you like to jot them down and we can send them up to the Cape York Institute?

I think a comprehensive program of interbreeding with whites could work. You know, dillute all those Abo genes. Let's face it, we won't get anywhere with the blacks until we can erradicate their DNA. It's a bit like the cane toad problem.

Sure, you can put them to work and try to get them to stop drinking and sniffing petrol, but it's just pissing against the wind, really.

I guess we should keep a few around for the tourists, but the rest should be bred out. And properly this time.

Maybe Imperium has some ideas. I believe he's read extensively on this subject - all the latest, up to date material, anyway.

JC Denton wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 5:32pm:

oh wait we don't have to worry about an abo being offended by it - they don't read!

They won't even go to school!

Mattyfisk wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 5:44pm:

... wrote on Jun 15th, 2012 at 5:26pm: Excellent.  Thanks to your help I can now confirm that a website I had never visited is boring.  Keep up the good work. No problem. Maybe you can put the website behind you and work to address the problems with the Abos. It sounds like you have some really good ideas. Would you like to jot them down and we can send them up to the Cape York Institute? I think a comprehensive program of interbreeding with whites could work. You know, dillute all those Abo genes. Let's face it, we won't get anywhere with the blacks until we can erradicate their DNA. It's a bit like the cane toad problem. Sure, you can put them to work and try to get them to stop drinking and sniffing petrol, but it's just pissing against the wind, really. I guess we should keep a few around for the tourists, but the rest should be bred out. And properly this time. Maybe Imperium has some ideas. I believe he's read extensively on this subject - all the latest, up to date material, anyway.

I've got a plan.  It's a long shot....but it just might work.

Do nothing. 

They'll either sink or swim.  I don't care either way. 

Whaddya reckon?

yeah why do we have to help them karnal? got a bit of that paternalistic white man's burden spirit in ya?

i say we give em the top half of australia and make it their country for real and let em go - they're always going on about their land! i know it for real - one of them told me that i stole their land and raped their kids at the embassy a month or so back. lets give them a lot of their land back and ship 'em on out and forget about them!

works for me.

What? You must be out of your mind. What about the mining and pastoral leases? If we do nothing, they might get it into their heads to make things difficult for the true custodians of the land.

Give em their own country....then conquer it. 

nah then we're just back to where we started

Yes, Imperium, you are correct. It would seem that these half measures will only ever solve the problem in the short term. We've been extremely generous in sharing our DNA. We've tried rounding them up onto missions - or ghettos if you will. At great cost I might add. We even tried to raise them ourselves - in the hope that we might train the wildness out of them and bring them into civilization.

As you are aware, it was all a dismal failure despite our very best endevours. All these experiments, with all the goodwill in the world, failed. I'm afraid, gentlemen, that we may have reached the end. Let's be realistic here. What we need is a telos, an endpoint if you will. If you will forgive me, I can see no other way.

Allow me to be frank. What we need here is a final solution.

wont work

all that'll happen is they'll get high off the gas!

all the stolen generation kids and the petrol sniffers should be adopted by lesbians, like i was. never did me any harm. it's better to have two mummies looking after you than none.

JC Denton wrote on Jun 15^th, 2012 at 7:11pm:

wont work all that'll happen is they'll get high off the gas!

I see. What would you suggest then?

I suggest to ignore pin dick abos who try to gain control through sympathy.

It's a losing game.

Where they started was probably at a point which would procure longevity in some semblance.

We are well past that now. We have been since the 1700's

We can't hope for longevity in that realm, so we may as well dictate to all who have.

Sorry Longy, and all those other footballers who thought they had something to give. You hadn't.
You regressed our game and our political system is all.
You had nothing to give in the "long" run, but you attempted to conquer and failed.

The "Long walk"..the fat prick walks 50m's and outta puff...what an absolute joke.

"Longy" administered the most pathetic shirtfront in history in the GF vs Melbourne. He is a pathetic animal and should be treated as such.

He will always be a dog loser animal for that act nomatter what transpires.

Police apologise to family for death in custody

The Northern Territory Police officer who was in charge of the Alice Springs watch-house on the night a man died in the cells has apologised to the family of the dead man.

Sergeant William McDonnell was in charge on the night Kwementyaye Briscoe died at the facility in January.

He told Coroner Greg Cavanagh he failed to get Mr Briscoe medical help for a head injury.

He said officers had become complacent about drunks coming into custody with head wounds.

Sergeant McDonnell said he did not understand 27-year-old Mr Briscoe was drunk enough to die.

He broke down as he told members of Mr Briscoe's family in the court that he had breached their trust and failed to protect Mr Briscoe.

He said he understood the anger they must feel towards him, but no one wanted Mr Briscoe to die.

Sergeant McDonnell told the inquiry he saw Mr Briscoe had an open head wound and was drunk but had instructed junior officers to let him "sleep it off" instead of getting him immediate medical treatment.

He says he will carry the death with him for the rest of his career.

Other police officers also told the court they thought Mr Briscoe was faking injury.

The court heard prisoners in police custody often fake injuries to be taken to hospital, where they are no longer under police watch.

One officer wept as she apologised to Mr Briscoe's family, saying she failed to get him medical attention.

She said she has been severely affected by the death.

Earlier, the inquest had been told Mr Briscoe had a dangerous level of alcohol in his blood when he died.

Forensic physician Doctor Morris Odell said Mr Briscoe had a blood alcohol content of 0.375, enough to be potentially fatal.

The Coroner has also been told by other prisoners in the watch-house that they had seen police officers dragging Mr Briscoe to a cell.

Some said they had asked police to call for medical help but they were ignored.

The inquest continues.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-06-19/death-in-custody-inquiry-police-witnesses/4079850

If a white guy says this, he is taken to court. If an 'Aborigine' says it, everyone looks down and nods and shuffles his feet:


Mr Mansell said the number of people claiming to be indigenous in Tasmania had swollen from 10,000 20 years ago to nearly 20,000.

"There are many white Tasmanians who claim to be Aboriginal because of rumour or because they 'feel different,'" Mr Mansell said in a statement.

Schools and state governments got extra Commonwealth funding for "every child that ticks the box on indigenous" and "the financial incentive for attracting public funding in education largely explains why the numbers have doubled in such a short time", he said.

"The processes for authenticating the real from the fanciful are so loose that in reality, anyone can legally claim to be indigenous and be accepted by the federal departments without question."

Mr Mansell said he was concerned about people discovering a distant Aboriginal ancestor then using that information to claim to be Aboriginal, despite culturally and socially living the life of a white person.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/15170339/mundine-racism-row-takes-new-turn/

There are none so 'racists' as the 'oppressed' races - for them it's a meal ticket, innit?

I think the main problem is how to help Aboriginals join the modern Australia. We need to help Aboriginals to acquire more knowledge and skills of the modern world.

However, there is a big mistake made the Stolen Generations. The mistake is using Anglo Australian to replace modern Aboriginals Australian. Anglo Australian believe English is the only language and Aboriginals have to learn English first before to teach them other knowledge. Then stole Aboriginals children.

Just like I said in the topic about citizen test. If you want to teach someone knowledge, their native language is the best way.

Aboriginals may never become Anglo Australian, but they can become modern Aboriginals  Australian.


BTW, is there anyone can tell me how many Aboriginals speak English and how many speak Aboriginal language today? We may find a way to solve the problem instead of just blaming.

Bowen wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2012 at 6:26am:

I think the main problem is how to help Aboriginals join the modern Australia. We need to help Aboriginals to acquire more knowledge and skills of the modern world. However, there is a big mistake made the Stolen Generations. The mistake is using Anglo Australian to replace modern Aboriginals Australian. Anglo Australian believe English is the only language and Aboriginals have to learn English first before to teach them other knowledge. Then stole Aboriginals children. Just like I said in the topic about citizen test. If you want to teach someone knowledge, their native language is the best way. Aboriginals may never become Anglo Australian, but they can become modern Aboriginals  Australian. BTW, is there anyone can tell me how many Aboriginals speak English and how many speak Aboriginal language today? We may find a way to solve the problem instead of just blaming.

Why should they? How many immigrants can speak aboriginal?

SOB

What the meaning of "Why should they?"

Who are "they"? and they do what?


Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2012 at 6:55am:

Bowen wrote on Nov 2nd, 2012 at 6:26am: I think the main problem is how to help Aboriginals join the modern Australia. We need to help Aboriginals to acquire more knowledge and skills of the modern world. However, there is a big mistake made the Stolen Generations. The mistake is using Anglo Australian to replace modern Aboriginals Australian. Anglo Australian believe English is the only language and Aboriginals have to learn English first before to teach them other knowledge. Then stole Aboriginals children. Just like I said in the topic about citizen test. If you want to teach someone knowledge, their native language is the best way. Aboriginals may never become Anglo Australian, but they can become modern Aboriginals  Australian. BTW, is there anyone can tell me how many Aboriginals speak English and how many speak Aboriginal language today? We may find a way to solve the problem instead of just blaming. Why should they? How many immigrants can speak aboriginal? SOB

Bowen wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2012 at 6:26am:

I think the main problem is how to help Aboriginals join the modern Australia. We need to help Aboriginals to acquire more knowledge and skills of the modern world. However, there is a big mistake made the Stolen Generations. The mistake is using Anglo Australian to replace modern Aboriginals Australian. Anglo Australian believe English is the only language and Aboriginals have to learn English first before to teach them other knowledge. Then stole Aboriginals children. Just like I said in the topic about citizen test. If you want to teach someone knowledge, their native language is the best way. Aboriginals may never become Anglo Australian, but they can become modern Aboriginals  Australian. BTW, is there anyone can tell me how many Aboriginals speak English and how many speak Aboriginal language today? We may find a way to solve the problem instead of just blaming.

I agree with the bold, but the highlighted is a complete contradiction.

Teaching abo's ancient tribal languages has and always will be a waste if time.

They, like anyone, need good English language skills to find employment and self empowerment away from welfare dependence.

Can you tell me how many aboriginals speak English and how many speak their own language? I don't know about it.

I think the solution depends on the conditions. If most of them speak English, I think it's ok to teach them in English.


FriYAY wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2012 at 3:18pm:

I agree with the bold, but the highlighted is a complete contradiction. Teaching abo's ancient tribal languages has and always will be a waste if time. They, like anyone, need good English language skills to find employment and self empowerment away from welfare dependence.

Bowen wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2012 at 3:30pm:

Can you tell me how many aboriginals speak English and how many speak their own language? I don't know about it. I think the solution depends on the conditions. If most of them speak English, I think it's ok to teach them in English. FriYAY wrote on Nov 3rd, 2012 at 3:18pm: I agree with the bold, but the highlighted is a complete contradiction. Teaching abo's ancient tribal languages has and always will be a waste if time. They, like anyone, need good English language skills to find employment and self empowerment away from welfare dependence.

No i don't know the numbers, most i would say would speak english, definately all of the more urbanised. There would still be some traditional areas that speak their own language. But i don't know any facts.

You know there has always been a strong Aborigional presence in my area and i could not take you to one shop/store/business that has Abo working there. Except for indigenous specific businesses.

They don't like school, didn't even like the special Abo only schools that have just been closed.

My other half spent many years in Darwin, she recons to get them to school you need to promise them a good feed.

I think the main problem is how to convince Aboriginals to learn modern knowledge no matter in English or their own language.

Maybe we need more volunteers who can speak English and Aboriginal language to communicate with them.

Before we help them, we have to understand them. Otherwise we have no chance.


FriYAY wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2012 at 3:57pm:

Bowen wrote on Nov 3rd, 2012 at 3:30pm: Can you tell me how many aboriginals speak English and how many speak their own language? I don't know about it. I think the solution depends on the conditions. If most of them speak English, I think it's ok to teach them in English. FriYAY wrote on Nov 3rd, 2012 at 3:18pm: I agree with the bold, but the highlighted is a complete contradiction. Teaching abo's ancient tribal languages has and always will be a waste if time. They, like anyone, need good English language skills to find employment and self empowerment away from welfare dependence. No i don't know the numbers, most i would say would speak english, definately all of the more urbanised. There would still be some traditional areas that speak their own language. But i don't know any facts. You know there has always been a strong Aborigional presence in my area and i could not take you to one shop/store/business that has Abo working there. Except for indigenous specific businesses. They don't like school, didn't even like the special Abo only schools that have just been closed. My other half spent many years in Darwin, she recons to get them to school you need to promise them a good feed.

Yes, convincing to go to scholl and learn is the main problem.

There are 100's (possibly more) traditional languages. If they want knowledge and jobs they need to learn English.

Understand them? I imagine many of them hate us and wish we never came here.


Bowen wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2012 at 4:12pm:

I think the main problem is how to convince Aboriginals to learn modern knowledge no matter in English or their own language. Maybe we need more volunteers who can speak English and Aboriginal language to communicate with them. Before we help them, we have to understand them. Otherwise we have no chance. FriYAY wrote on Nov 3rd, 2012 at 3:57pm: Bowen wrote on Nov 3rd, 2012 at 3:30pm: Can you tell me how many aboriginals speak English and how many speak their own language? I don't know about it. I think the solution depends on the conditions. If most of them speak English, I think it's ok to teach them in English. FriYAY wrote on Nov 3rd, 2012 at 3:18pm: I agree with the bold, but the highlighted is a complete contradiction. Teaching abo's ancient tribal languages has and always will be a waste if time. They, like anyone, need good English language skills to find employment and self empowerment away from welfare dependence. No i don't know the numbers, most i would say would speak english, definately all of the more urbanised. There would still be some traditional areas that speak their own language. But i don't know any facts. You know there has always been a strong Aborigional presence in my area and i could not take you to one shop/store/business that has Abo working there. Except for indigenous specific businesses. They don't like school, didn't even like the special Abo only schools that have just been closed. My other half spent many years in Darwin, she recons to get them to school you need to promise them a good feed.

Education means nothing when aborigines live out in the middle of the bush where there's no jobs. They tried giving them cattle properties years ago and that didn't work.

I believe it's hard. But there should be a method to encourage them to save themselves.

Yes, they maybe hate. But if we can explain that for their own safety, welfare and interest, they need to learn some modern knowledge, maybe some of them can understand.

I'm not quite sure.


Big Dave wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2012 at 4:34pm:

Education means nothing when aborigines live out in the middle of the bush where there's no jobs. They tried giving them cattle properties years ago and that didn't work.

No responsibility doesn’t help.

Just throw your crap everywhere and the YT will pay to clean it up.

This place – Namatjira Avenue has been a cesspit since it opened up.

>>>>>>>>

ABOUT $50,000 has been allocated by the NSW Environment Protection Authority to clean up acres of bushland used as a dumping ground in the Namatjira mission.

The Namatjira Clean Up Program, a partnership between the Dareton Local Aboriginal Land Council (LALC) and the Far West Local Health District, officially began yesterday, with several workers lending a helping hand.

Bushland at the rear of Namatjira Avenue has been used as a dumping ground for some months until it reached the point that the Dareton LALC had to take action.

Pam Handy, of the Dareton LALC, said the project had been in the pipeline for a number of months and the group was delighted to finally start works.

“The project is funded by the NSW Environment Protection Authority and administered by the Wentworth Shire Council,” Ms Handy said. “We have the BMEET clean-up team providing the labour and 12 locals from right across the shire.”

An “appalled” member of the public recently contacted Sunraysia Daily about the “dump” urging those responsible for the land to do something about it.

Ms Handy said she was disappointed at the anonymous resident, who failed to find out any information about the project.

“We held a community meeting last Tuesday and have held them in the past, so if people had any concerns, why didn’t they come to them or Dareton LALC?” she asked.

“Firstly, many people in the mission don’t have a car registration or licence and secondly, the costs to dump your rubbish are sky high and are far too expensive in general for any resident.

>>>>>

Still plenty of $$ to get blind drunk. >:( >:(