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Message started by Greens_Win on Apr 30th, 2012 at 11:04pm

Title: Latest Newspoll
Post by Greens_Win on Apr 30th, 2012 at 11:04pm
ALP 27% -2
Coalition 51% +3
Greens
Independents

TPP 41/59

PPM Gillard 36 / Abbott 41

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by PZ547 on Apr 30th, 2012 at 11:11pm
Don't you feel it's of more concern that wind-farms are responsible for climate change ?

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by Greens_Win on Apr 30th, 2012 at 11:13pm

PZ547 wrote on Apr 30th, 2012 at 11:11pm:
Don't you feel it's of more concern that wind-farms are responsible for climate change ?




So humans are responsible for AGW
WOO HOO, the right are realising their error in thinking.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by GoddyofOz on Apr 30th, 2012 at 11:14pm
Surely Labor will crack soon and demand Gillard resign. If she resigns, there is enough benefit of the doubt that Labor can say she wasn't pushed and went voluntarily.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by Greens_Win on Apr 30th, 2012 at 11:18pm

GoddyofOz wrote on Apr 30th, 2012 at 11:14pm:
Surely Labor will crack soon and demand Gillard resign. If she resigns, there is enough benefit of the doubt that Labor can say she wasn't pushed and went voluntarily.




Getting to the point where the situation is untenable.

Gillard, her leadership has allowed Abbott to build towards a landslide.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by john_g on Apr 30th, 2012 at 11:33pm
Any source, Greens? Not that I don't believe you, I just couldn't find any results in google.

That is bad, worse than I expected. Labor really is at the point of no return, they need to dump Gillard, and they need to do it now. Neither party should have the majority that the Coalition is going to have.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by john_g on Apr 30th, 2012 at 11:37pm

GoddyofOz wrote on Apr 30th, 2012 at 11:14pm:
Surely Labor will crack soon and demand Gillard resign. If she resigns, there is enough benefit of the doubt that Labor can say she wasn't pushed and went voluntarily.


No one would buy that, though. She NEEDS to go. It is not good for either party to have the majority that NSW and QLD have at present, and the Coalition is about to attain federally. We need good government and good opposition.


Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by Prevailing on Apr 30th, 2012 at 11:57pm
Its sad to see all the sycophants and suckholes now turning on the turd Julia Gillard - the only people who want to see her in the job are those who see the political advantage of keeping her in as long as possible to awaken the public to the state of corruption in Politics and business.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by Sprintcyclist on May 1st, 2012 at 12:08am

____ wrote on Apr 30th, 2012 at 11:04pm:
ALP 27% -2
Liberal 51% +3
Greens
National
Independents

TPP 41/59

PPM Gillard 36 / Abbott 41


1st term pm. Whipped

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by progressiveslol on May 1st, 2012 at 12:11am
Labor are doing well. Atleast Juliar can hold onto the low levels not seen for some time. It isnt like she is at 10%.

Maybe labor should give her a good go and see if she can get to 15% atleast. Thats the Australian way. A fair go.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by brumbie on May 1st, 2012 at 12:22am
wind-farms are innocent

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by buzzanddidj on May 1st, 2012 at 8:13am

PZ547 wrote on Apr 30th, 2012 at 11:11pm:
Don't you feel it's of more concern that wind-farms are responsible for climate change ?








There is a belief among a few people in Korea that fans chop up oxygen molecules and can cause asphyxia if used in a closed room. There is just as much, and just as little, reason to believe this as there is to believe that wind turbines make people ill.

People can become stressed by almost anything. I could become stressed by a magpie that regularly swoops on me, for example. The stress then could cause me to become ill. Would reasonable people then say that the magpie made me ill, or rather would they say that it was a disproportional emotional response to the swooping magpie that brought about my illness?











Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by Guildford on May 1st, 2012 at 8:17am
Greens 11%......down .8% from 2010

The poor darlings still can't grow from Labors woes

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by Guildford on May 1st, 2012 at 8:18am
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/coalition-hits-an-11-year-high-in-latest-newspoll/story-fn59niix-1226343170617

Poll result bottom of page

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by progressiveslol on May 1st, 2012 at 8:30am

Guildford wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 8:17am:
Greens 11%......down .8% from 2010

The poor darlings still can't grow from Labors woes

No wonder greens loser did not show the greens result. Greens are just a rusted on 10%er party. No real growth and no real decline, except for the fact that there is/was plenty of votes up for grabs so they should have grown if they were worth voting for that is.

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2012/05/01/1226343/230116-aus-newspoll-010512.pdf

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by skippy. on May 1st, 2012 at 8:31am

john_g wrote on Apr 30th, 2012 at 11:33pm:
Any source, Greens? Not that I don't believe you, I just couldn't find any results in google.

That is bad, worse than I expected. Labor really is at the point of no return, they need to dump Gillard, and they need to do it now. Neither party should have the majority that the Coalition is going to have.

Well said John, it would be bad for democracy, but even worse if phony Tony is PM. I don't believe Labors numbers could be any worse, Gillard needs to go,TODAY, she should resign.  If Rudd wants to stand he can, lets face it, all the polls say the voters like Rudd, he'd have to give Labor a mighty push from those numbers. I don't know why they like him though, I cant stand the man.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by Gist on May 1st, 2012 at 8:43am

skippy. wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 8:31am:
I don't know why they like him though, I cant stand the man.


Feeling sorry for him I reckon. They didn't feel that way when he was PM.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by Andrei.Hicks on May 1st, 2012 at 9:17am

skippy. wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 8:31am:

john_g wrote on Apr 30th, 2012 at 11:33pm:
Any source, Greens? Not that I don't believe you, I just couldn't find any results in google.

That is bad, worse than I expected. Labor really is at the point of no return, they need to dump Gillard, and they need to do it now. Neither party should have the majority that the Coalition is going to have.

Well said John, it would be bad for democracy, but even worse if phony Tony is PM. I don't believe Labors numbers could be any worse, Gillard needs to go,TODAY, she should resign.  If Rudd wants to stand he can, lets face it, all the polls say the voters like Rudd, he'd have to give Labor a mighty push from those numbers. I don't know why they like him though, I cant stand the man.


I can only speak for myself.
I've been asked on the street of Sydney a year ago a straw poll for Nine and I gave him as my preferred Labor PM.

Reason:
He is PM material. Gillard isn't.

If you want my view on the other side of politics-
Abbott isn't PM material either and Turnbull is.

Gillard isn't - she seems unable to sell a bottle of water to an Ethiopian. She lacks empathy, she lacks conviction and she has sold her reputation down the river 'doing deals' with anyone to shore up a vote.

Abbott isn't - He attacks well but offers no alternative. I don't know what his policies are, I don't know where he stands. I know what Turnbull thinks on issues and I can see he has a vision of what he'd do as PM. I have no idea what Abbott offers.

There's my view on my preferred choices on either side.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by Andrei.Hicks on May 1st, 2012 at 9:22am

Gist wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 8:43am:

skippy. wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 8:31am:
I don't know why they like him though, I cant stand the man.


Feeling sorry for him I reckon. They didn't feel that way when he was PM.



Rudd was Preferred PM for every single day of his leadership with the General Public.

The Australian people I don't think take too well to the knifing of their elected PM.

I didn't like the guy, but I thought the way he was treated in 2010 was a disgrace.


Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by skippy. on May 1st, 2012 at 9:31am

Quote:
Gillard isn't - she seems unable to sell a bottle of water to an Ethiopian.

I agree,well put, she is the worst salesperson I've ever seen.

Quote:
Abbott isn't - He attacks well but offers no alternative

I agree again,Abbott is a great attack dog, but that's where his brilliance stops.

We really have to stop agreeing like this Andrei. You're starting to scare me lately,we seem to be agreeing on a lot of things. ;D

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by muso on May 1st, 2012 at 9:36am
Tony Abbott is the best thing that's happening so far - for the ALP that is.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by buzzanddidj on May 1st, 2012 at 9:51am

Guildford wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 8:17am:
Greens 11%......down .8% from 2010



I was expecting a bit more of a hit, in losing the charismatic Bob from the head of the table ?

I wasn't sure Christine Milne had that 'it' factor
Seems I was wrong






Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by Andrei.Hicks on May 1st, 2012 at 9:51am

skippy. wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 9:31am:

Quote:
Gillard isn't - she seems unable to sell a bottle of water to an Ethiopian.

I agree,well put, she is the worst salesperson I've ever seen.
[quote]Abbott isn't - He attacks well but offers no alternative

I agree again,Abbott is a great attack dog, but that's where his brilliance stops.

We really have to stop agreeing like this Andrei. You're starting to scare me lately,we seem to be agreeing on a lot of things. ;D[/quote]

For the life of me though I don't understand why there is this chasm between her popularity in the Labor Party - which is obviously pretty good - and the popularity with the General public which is dire.

I can explain the General Public one, I just cannot understand why its so high in the party.

It has though now I think reached the point of no return with the public.
I know polls turn around and it will narrow no doubt between now and an election but she cant get numbers like this back.

It's handing a landslide to Abbott right now and thats not good.
Not because its Abbott but any massive majority for a Government is bad for a country.

QLD is a shocker but at least its one state.


Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by Andrei.Hicks on May 1st, 2012 at 9:53am
Not to drift too much away from Australia but given my background, the worst thing that happened for Britain in the 1980s was the landslide won for Mrs Thatcher.

Mrs T was an awesome PM (many wouldn't agree with me) but the 4 years she ruled with literally no opposition (she had something like a majority of 180) was bad for the country.
There was no opposition.

Australia is looking like delivering that next election if Labor don't do something.
A budget where they make unpopular cuts to deliver a surplus makes matters worse.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by Verge on May 1st, 2012 at 10:17am
Gillard will hand Abbott the keys to the lodge, and he will have done nothing to deserve them. Congratulations labor, not only have you screwed us now, you will screw us into the future

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by juliar on May 1st, 2012 at 10:43am
Poor old defeated defunct decaying Miss Gillard can blame its pathetic failed attempt at pretending to be a "PM" on the menopause.

Sad really - it should have stayed out of sight as a devoted brown nosing ex-unionist delusional FABIAN failure.


Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by Gist on May 1st, 2012 at 11:56am

juliar wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 10:43am:
Poor old defeated defunct decaying Miss Gillard can blame its pathetic failed attempt at pretending to be a "PM" on the menopause.


And your excuse is...???

Glad to see your back on your meds though.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by Guildford on May 1st, 2012 at 12:21pm

buzzanddidj wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 9:51am:

Guildford wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 8:17am:
Greens 11%......down .8% from 2010



I was expecting a bit more of a hit, in losing the charismatic Bob from the head of the table ?

I wasn't sure Christine Milne had that 'it' factor
Seems I was wrong



I don't think the Greens have any swinging voters left in their number, however on the numbers that represents a drop of 6% which is not insignificant.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by borntorule on May 1st, 2012 at 12:50pm

Guildford wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 8:17am:
Greens 11%......down .8% from 2010

The poor darlings still can't grow from Labors woes


I did notice that Greens chose not to reveal the % his beloved party polled. So, in summary, the Greens lost more votes as did Labor.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by borntorule on May 1st, 2012 at 12:53pm

muso wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 9:36am:
Tony Abbott is the best thing that's happening so far - for the ALP that is.


?que?  with the ALP being slaughtered on all counts, Abbott is the ALP's biggest enemy.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by buzzanddidj on May 1st, 2012 at 1:09pm

buzzanddidj wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 9:51am:

Guildford wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 8:17am:
Greens 11%......down .8% from 2010



I was expecting a bit more of a hit, in losing the charismatic Bob from the head of the table ?

I wasn't sure Christine Milne had that 'it' factor
Seems I was wrong




I'd be interested to see how the Federal LibNats are doing in Victoria, in light of THIS result ...



buzzanddidj wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 11:13am:

Newspoll shows a marked increase in the Greens' primary vote since the 2010 election - up from 11.2 per cent to 17 per cent.

The Greens' vote climbed from 14 per cent to 17 per cent in the latest survey.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/state-politics/double-blow-as-baillieu-poll-plunge-puts-partys-support-on-a-knife-edge/story-e6frgczx-1226342180946


Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by borntorule on May 1st, 2012 at 1:16pm

buzzanddidj wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 1:09pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 9:51am:

Guildford wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 8:17am:
Greens 11%......down .8% from 2010



I was expecting a bit more of a hit, in losing the charismatic Bob from the head of the table ?

I wasn't sure Christine Milne had that 'it' factor
Seems I was wrong




I'd be interested to see how the Federal LibNats are doing in Victoria, in light of THIS result ...



buzzanddidj wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 11:13am:

Newspoll shows a marked increase in the Greens' primary vote since the 2010 election - up from 11.2 per cent to 17 per cent.

The Greens' vote climbed from 14 per cent to 17 per cent in the latest survey.


I dont know why you think it matters. with the 2PP now 41/59 it is beyond meaningless. The only possible glimmer of hope is that Adam Bandt will retain his seat - possibly. But even if he does he will have zero say in a parliament where the Coalition will have as many as a 100 seat majority. The Green vote rise has been nothing more than labor voters leaving Bailieu but refusing to vote Labor.

But in a federal context the vote might cause Labor to gain 1 or 2 seats more than expected, up to as many as 30 seats compared to Abbots 120. Care factor: zero.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by Frances on May 1st, 2012 at 2:18pm

borntorule wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 12:53pm:

muso wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 9:36am:
Tony Abbott is the best thing that's happening so far - for the ALP that is.


?que?  with the ALP being slaughtered on all counts, Abbott is the ALP's biggest enemy.


Because the only thing that is stopping a lot more people from transferring their allegiance to the Coalition is Tony Abbott.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by borntorule on May 1st, 2012 at 3:01pm

Frances wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 2:18pm:

borntorule wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 12:53pm:

muso wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 9:36am:
Tony Abbott is the best thing that's happening so far - for the ALP that is.


?que?  with the ALP being slaughtered on all counts, Abbott is the ALP's biggest enemy.


Because the only thing that is stopping a lot more people from transferring their allegiance to the Coalition is Tony Abbott.


An interesting notion if absolutely unsupported by any actual facts. With the Abbott-led coalition now at a primary vote of 51% - the highest primary vote in decades - and leading the 2PP by 18% and in front in the preferred PM as well, who exactly do you think are still out there to go to Abbott?  The coalition already has all its own supporters and has dragged 1/3 of the former ALP voters to its side. They are running out of people who they can conceivably convert!

So who would you replace Abbott with? Turnball? The man that lead the Libs to a 16% DEFICIT and whose personal approval went to 17%?

I can see why you didnt try and support your claim. It is unsupportable.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by Greens_Win on May 1st, 2012 at 3:08pm

progressiveslol wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 8:30am:

Guildford wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 8:17am:
Greens 11%......down .8% from 2010

The poor darlings still can't grow from Labors woes

No wonder greens loser did not show the greens result. Greens are just a rusted on 10%er party. No real growth and no real decline, except for the fact that there is/was plenty of votes up for grabs so they should have grown if they were worth voting for that is.

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2012/05/01/1226343/230116-aus-newspoll-010512.pdf




If you had your finger on the pulse of things, you would of realised, 11pm, the night prior, only a portion of the poll is released.


And considering Greens are not in election mode, and we have just change leaders for the first time, it's all good. We don't premature eject like the regressives tend to do.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by Andrei.Hicks on May 1st, 2012 at 3:10pm
The Greens have lost their one figurehead.

He's been replaced some sort of nothing woman.

Then with Communists like Rhiannon in the background, I expect this bunch of lunatics to head backwards at a rate of knots over the coming years.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by borntorule on May 1st, 2012 at 3:44pm

____ wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 3:08pm:

progressiveslol wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 8:30am:

Guildford wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 8:17am:
Greens 11%......down .8% from 2010

The poor darlings still can't grow from Labors woes

No wonder greens loser did not show the greens result. Greens are just a rusted on 10%er party. No real growth and no real decline, except for the fact that there is/was plenty of votes up for grabs so they should have grown if they were worth voting for that is.

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2012/05/01/1226343/230116-aus-newspoll-010512.pdf




If you had your finger on the pulse of things, you would of realised, 11pm, the night prior, only a portion of the poll is released.


And considering Greens are not in election mode, and we have just change leaders for the first time, it's all good. We don't premature eject like the regressives tend to do.


Which might be a reasonable excuse if not for the fact that you have STILL not talked about the Green poll drop.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by skippy. on May 1st, 2012 at 3:52pm

borntorule wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 3:44pm:

____ wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 3:08pm:

progressiveslol wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 8:30am:

Guildford wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 8:17am:
Greens 11%......down .8% from 2010

The poor darlings still can't grow from Labors woes

No wonder greens loser did not show the greens result. Greens are just a rusted on 10%er party. No real growth and no real decline, except for the fact that there is/was plenty of votes up for grabs so they should have grown if they were worth voting for that is.

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2012/05/01/1226343/230116-aus-newspoll-010512.pdf




If you had your finger on the pulse of things, you would of realised, 11pm, the night prior, only a portion of the poll is released.


And considering Greens are not in election mode, and we have just change leaders for the first time, it's all good. We don't premature eject like the regressives tend to do.


Which might be a reasonable excuse if not for the fact that you have STILL not talked about the Green poll drop.

Why were you banned troll?????

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by borntorule on May 1st, 2012 at 4:04pm

skippy. wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 3:52pm:

borntorule wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 3:44pm:

____ wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 3:08pm:

progressiveslol wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 8:30am:

Guildford wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 8:17am:
Greens 11%......down .8% from 2010

The poor darlings still can't grow from Labors woes

No wonder greens loser did not show the greens result. Greens are just a rusted on 10%er party. No real growth and no real decline, except for the fact that there is/was plenty of votes up for grabs so they should have grown if they were worth voting for that is.

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2012/05/01/1226343/230116-aus-newspoll-010512.pdf




If you had your finger on the pulse of things, you would of realised, 11pm, the night prior, only a portion of the poll is released.


And considering Greens are not in election mode, and we have just change leaders for the first time, it's all good. We don't premature eject like the regressives tend to do.


Which might be a reasonable excuse if not for the fact that you have STILL not talked about the Green poll drop.

Why were you banned troll?????


Who said I was 'banned'. Has it not occured to you that people actually come in here to discuss politics and not listen to off-topic banter from dumb animals?

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by skippy. on May 1st, 2012 at 4:08pm
I'll PM the mods to bring you to their attention, no one just turns up out of the blue on a new forum and makes 63 posts in under 24 hours. We cant have banned members coming back with new socks can we sweet thing. That would defeat the purpose of them banning you to begin with. ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by borntorule on May 1st, 2012 at 4:38pm

skippy. wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 4:08pm:
I'll PM the mods to bring you to their attention, no one just turns up out of the blue on a new forum and makes 63 posts in under 24 hours. We cant have banned members coming back with new socks can we sweet thing. That would defeat the purpose of them banning you to begin with. ;D ;D ;D


63 posts a bit too much for you to understand? Certainly based on what Ive read of your posts, you dont seem to have much to contribute.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by Armchair_Politician on May 1st, 2012 at 5:44pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 12:08am:

____ wrote on Apr 30th, 2012 at 11:04pm:
ALP 27% -2
Liberal 51% +3
Greens
National
Independents

TPP 41/59

PPM Gillard 36 / Abbott 41


1st term pm. Whipped


Gillard is a dismal failure. Rudd lead Labor to victory with a majority government. Gillard knifed him and at the next election had to form a minority government, so bad was her performance. Now she is staring into the abyss with Labor one point off its lowest recorded polling. There is no turning things around now. EPIC FAIL!!!

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by Greens_Win on May 1st, 2012 at 6:03pm

borntorule wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 3:44pm:

____ wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 3:08pm:

progressiveslol wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 8:30am:

Guildford wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 8:17am:
Greens 11%......down .8% from 2010

The poor darlings still can't grow from Labors woes

No wonder greens loser did not show the greens result. Greens are just a rusted on 10%er party. No real growth and no real decline, except for the fact that there is/was plenty of votes up for grabs so they should have grown if they were worth voting for that is.

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2012/05/01/1226343/230116-aus-newspoll-010512.pdf




If you had your finger on the pulse of things, you would of realised, 11pm, the night prior, only a portion of the poll is released.


And considering Greens are not in election mode, and we have just change leaders for the first time, it's all good. We don't premature eject like the regressives tend to do.


Which might be a reasonable excuse if not for the fact that you have STILL not talked about the Green poll drop.




Why. Polls move around and leading now holds no prizes.

i.e Libs are leading yet are still in the wilderness.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by nairbe on May 1st, 2012 at 6:22pm

PZ547 wrote on Apr 30th, 2012 at 11:11pm:
Don't you feel it's of more concern that wind-farms are responsible for climate change ?


Please tell me that you did read the article properly and you have realised that it was a witch hunt load of crap. The UK Telegraph? not reliable on such matters.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by Armchair_Politician on May 1st, 2012 at 6:48pm

____ wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 6:03pm:

borntorule wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 3:44pm:

____ wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 3:08pm:

progressiveslol wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 8:30am:

Guildford wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 8:17am:
Greens 11%......down .8% from 2010

The poor darlings still can't grow from Labors woes

No wonder greens loser did not show the greens result. Greens are just a rusted on 10%er party. No real growth and no real decline, except for the fact that there is/was plenty of votes up for grabs so they should have grown if they were worth voting for that is.

http://resources.news.com.au/files/2012/05/01/1226343/230116-aus-newspoll-010512.pdf




If you had your finger on the pulse of things, you would of realised, 11pm, the night prior, only a portion of the poll is released.


And considering Greens are not in election mode, and we have just change leaders for the first time, it's all good. We don't premature eject like the regressives tend to do.


Which might be a reasonable excuse if not for the fact that you have STILL not talked about the Green poll drop.




Why. Polls move around and leading now holds no prizes.

i.e Libs are leading yet are still in the wilderness.


I love the smell of Greens_Liquidated's desperation in the evening...  :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by juliar on May 1st, 2012 at 9:15pm
Now that the well cooked country doctor Uncle Bob Brown has seen the iceberg up ahead on the horizon and has scurried out the door he has left behind a mad rabble of rabid disturbed Communist weirdohs who will eventually self destruct without him.

Uncle Bob WAS THE COMMUNIST GREENS and without his regal presence the Communist Greens are just another ratbag group of insignificant inferior nobodies going nowhere.

Unlce Bob exploited the Climate Catastrophe bulldust and the poisonous carbon dioxide gas scare for all it was worth and took his wongdong group to a once only high. Once Uncle Bob realized the Climate game was up he cleverly flew the coop.

This should get the trollies going. Come on gISTY tell us about the meds you take - what are they - why do you have to take them - what happens if you stop taking them - now don't be shy ?

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by skippy. on May 2nd, 2012 at 8:38am

borntorule wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 4:38pm:

skippy. wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 4:08pm:
I'll PM the mods to bring you to their attention, no one just turns up out of the blue on a new forum and makes 63 posts in under 24 hours. We cant have banned members coming back with new socks can we sweet thing. That would defeat the purpose of them banning you to begin with. ;D ;D ;D


63 posts a bit too much for you to understand? Certainly based on what Ive read of your posts, you dont seem to have much to contribute.

LOl you fool no one but yourself with your sock. How desperate are you,longwhine? speaking of adding nothing, you're now posting here with three different nicks and none of them make sense. :D OH, I'm glad you're pissed off I outed you, I cant let you get away with sneaking in here. ;D ;D

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by longweekend58 on May 4th, 2012 at 6:22pm

skippy. wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 8:38am:

borntorule wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 4:38pm:

skippy. wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 4:08pm:
I'll PM the mods to bring you to their attention, no one just turns up out of the blue on a new forum and makes 63 posts in under 24 hours. We cant have banned members coming back with new socks can we sweet thing. That would defeat the purpose of them banning you to begin with. ;D ;D ;D


63 posts a bit too much for you to understand? Certainly based on what Ive read of your posts, you dont seem to have much to contribute.

LOl you fool no one but yourself with your sock. How desperate are you,longwhine? speaking of adding nothing, you're now posting here with three different nicks and none of them make sense. :D OH, I'm glad you're pissed off I outed you, I cant let you get away with sneaking in here. ;D ;D


I have THREE IDs? please feel free to tell me which ones they are so I can PM them so we can have a laugh at your expense.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by skippy. on May 5th, 2012 at 4:54pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 4th, 2012 at 6:22pm:

skippy. wrote on May 2nd, 2012 at 8:38am:

borntorule wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 4:38pm:

skippy. wrote on May 1st, 2012 at 4:08pm:
I'll PM the mods to bring you to their attention, no one just turns up out of the blue on a new forum and makes 63 posts in under 24 hours. We cant have banned members coming back with new socks can we sweet thing. That would defeat the purpose of them banning you to begin with. ;D ;D ;D


63 posts a bit too much for you to understand? Certainly based on what Ive read of your posts, you dont seem to have much to contribute.

LOl you fool no one but yourself with your sock. How desperate are you,longwhine? speaking of adding nothing, you're now posting here with three different nicks and none of them make sense. :D OH, I'm glad you're pissed off I outed you, I cant let you get away with sneaking in here. ;D ;D


I have THREE IDs? please feel free to tell me which ones they are so I can PM them so we can have a laugh at your expense.

W nkers that use sox fool no one but themselves, EVERYONE picked you as borntorule, and had  had a laugh, AT YOU. ;D

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by corporate_whitey on May 5th, 2012 at 5:05pm
Pay no attention to that troll skippy, who has more sox than a box has matches. ;D

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by corporate_whitey on May 5th, 2012 at 5:07pm
The Newspoll reflects Australias rejection of the global economy and the push for more protection for local industries and jobs.  globalization and growth is unsustainable. 8-)

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by TheGreenLight on May 5th, 2012 at 5:07pm
What a shame, it's disappointing to see that the majority of Australians have fallen for the scare and fear campaign by the Coalition. They would rather vote for these self-serving Conservatives, than for a woman and party who have the best interest of Australia, and Australians at heart. Julia has never really been given a chance, it's so unfair. She's been attacked from day 1.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by corporate_whitey on May 5th, 2012 at 5:09pm
Labor opened our borders and deregulated our market and all Australians hold the ALP responsible for the damage they have done. ::)

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by skippy. on May 5th, 2012 at 5:17pm

corporate_whitey wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 5:05pm:
Pay no attention to that troll skippy, who has more sox than a box has matches. ;D

LOL you got outed last week for your sox, even a mod outed you ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by longweekend58 on May 5th, 2012 at 5:29pm
m still waiting for skippy to tell me what my sox are. Panis thinks I have 14 of them but she is probably the only poster stupider than skippy.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by skippy. on May 5th, 2012 at 5:36pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 5:29pm:
m still waiting for skippy to tell me what my sox are. Panis thinks I have 14 of them but she is probably the only poster stupider than skippy.

Cant you read either? I'll type it slowly for the imbecile, you posted here over the last week as borntorule,are you denying that? because I noticed that even a mod joined in the fun at laughing at you for that sock. Maybe we can have him confirm you and borntorule use the same IP address,liar.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by longweekend58 on May 5th, 2012 at 6:38pm

skippy. wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 5:36pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 5:29pm:
m still waiting for skippy to tell me what my sox are. Panis thinks I have 14 of them but she is probably the only poster stupider than skippy.

Cant you read either? I'll type it slowly for the imbecile, you posted here over the last week as borntorule,are you denying that? because I noticed that even a mod joined in the fun at laughing at you for that sock. Maybe we can have him confirm you and borntorule use the same IP address,liar.


a mod like mozza??? it disagrees with virtually everyone right of ghengis ghan.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by adelcrow on May 5th, 2012 at 6:43pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:38pm:

skippy. wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 5:36pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 5:29pm:
m still waiting for skippy to tell me what my sox are. Panis thinks I have 14 of them but she is probably the only poster stupider than skippy.

Cant you read either? I'll type it slowly for the imbecile, you posted here over the last week as borntorule,are you denying that? because I noticed that even a mod joined in the fun at laughing at you for that sock. Maybe we can have him confirm you and borntorule use the same IP address,liar.


a mod like mozza??? it disagrees with virtually everyone right of ghengis ghan.


Bless mozza for that  :P

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by john_g on May 5th, 2012 at 6:44pm
I don't post that often on here, so am not fully aware of all details, but the moderating on this site leaves a lot to be desire.

As a neutral centrist, it does appear that the mods are left-biased, and disgusting posts like Karnal's "Is Abbott straight", are allowed to stay on this part of the site, whereas some of our more right-wing poster's threads are relegated to other parts.

That's part of the reason why I have only made about 400 posts on here in about a year from joining. The disgusting comments, and the bias therein, from the mods.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by adelcrow on May 5th, 2012 at 6:45pm

john_g wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:44pm:
I don't post that often on here, so am not fully aware of all details, but the moderating on this site leaves a lot to be desire.

As a neutral centrist, it does appear that the mods are left-biased, and disgusting posts like Karnal's "Is Abbott straight", are allowed to stay on this part of the site, whereas some of our more right-wing poster's threads are relegated to other parts.

That's part of the reason why I have only made about 400 posts on here in about a year from joining. The disgusting comments, and the bias therein, from the mods.


You're taking it way to seriously

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by john_g on May 5th, 2012 at 6:48pm

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

john_g wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:44pm:
I don't post that often on here, so am not fully aware of all details, but the moderating on this site leaves a lot to be desire.

As a neutral centrist, it does appear that the mods are left-biased, and disgusting posts like Karnal's "Is Abbott straight", are allowed to stay on this part of the site, whereas some of our more right-wing poster's threads are relegated to other parts.

That's part of the reason why I have only made about 400 posts on here in about a year from joining. The disgusting comments, and the bias therein, from the mods.


You're taking it way to seriously


What precisely?

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by longweekend58 on May 5th, 2012 at 6:55pm

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

john_g wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:44pm:
I don't post that often on here, so am not fully aware of all details, but the moderating on this site leaves a lot to be desire.

As a neutral centrist, it does appear that the mods are left-biased, and disgusting posts like Karnal's "Is Abbott straight", are allowed to stay on this part of the site, whereas some of our more right-wing poster's threads are relegated to other parts.

That's part of the reason why I have only made about 400 posts on here in about a year from joining. The disgusting comments, and the bias therein, from the mods.


You're taking it way to seriously


i wasnt aware that 'balance' and 'fairness' were such optional concepts. But I guess from a Green like you, it does sound about right (or is that hard left?)

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by adelcrow on May 5th, 2012 at 6:56pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:55pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

john_g wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:44pm:
I don't post that often on here, so am not fully aware of all details, but the moderating on this site leaves a lot to be desire.

As a neutral centrist, it does appear that the mods are left-biased, and disgusting posts like Karnal's "Is Abbott straight", are allowed to stay on this part of the site, whereas some of our more right-wing poster's threads are relegated to other parts.

That's part of the reason why I have only made about 400 posts on here in about a year from joining. The disgusting comments, and the bias therein, from the mods.


You're taking it way to seriously


i wasnt aware that 'balance' and 'fairness' were such optional concepts. But I guess from a Green like you, it does sound about right (or is that hard left?)


Hey be nice..I always defended you when you were moderating  :P

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by john_g on May 5th, 2012 at 7:07pm

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:55pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

john_g wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:44pm:
I don't post that often on here, so am not fully aware of all details, but the moderating on this site leaves a lot to be desire.

As a neutral centrist, it does appear that the mods are left-biased, and disgusting posts like Karnal's "Is Abbott straight", are allowed to stay on this part of the site, whereas some of our more right-wing poster's threads are relegated to other parts.

That's part of the reason why I have only made about 400 posts on here in about a year from joining. The disgusting comments, and the bias therein, from the mods.


You're taking it way to seriously


i wasnt aware that 'balance' and 'fairness' were such optional concepts. But I guess from a Green like you, it does sound about right (or is that hard left?)


Hey be nice..I always defended you when you were moderating  :P


What about Karnal? I haven't seen you criticse his disgusting threads harassing Matty, nor others who have posted digusting things about cods. Those two have copped so much that has been totally uncalled for, despicable and disgusting, and I haven't seen any mod or reprimand those who made them. In fact, a lot of left-wingers jump in and attack them as well.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by adelcrow on May 5th, 2012 at 7:11pm

john_g wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 7:07pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:55pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

john_g wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:44pm:
I don't post that often on here, so am not fully aware of all details, but the moderating on this site leaves a lot to be desire.

As a neutral centrist, it does appear that the mods are left-biased, and disgusting posts like Karnal's "Is Abbott straight", are allowed to stay on this part of the site, whereas some of our more right-wing poster's threads are relegated to other parts.

That's part of the reason why I have only made about 400 posts on here in about a year from joining. The disgusting comments, and the bias therein, from the mods.


You're taking it way to seriously


i wasnt aware that 'balance' and 'fairness' were such optional concepts. But I guess from a Green like you, it does sound about right (or is that hard left?)


Hey be nice..I always defended you when you were moderating  :P


What about Karnal? I haven't seen you criticse his disgusting threads harassing Matty, nor others who have posted digusting things about cods. Those two have copped so much that has been totally uncalled for, despicable and disgusting, and I haven't seen any mod or reprimand those who made them. In fact, a lot of left-wingers jump in and attack them as well.


Karnal is just taking the p!ss ..but as for those that abuse and attack each other I do agree, thats why I steer clear of personal attacks. But its still pretty tame when compared to similar sites and from what used to go on at the old Yahoo forums.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by john_g on May 5th, 2012 at 7:26pm

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 7:11pm:

john_g wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 7:07pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:55pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

john_g wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:44pm:
I don't post that often on here, so am not fully aware of all details, but the moderating on this site leaves a lot to be desire.

As a neutral centrist, it does appear that the mods are left-biased, and disgusting posts like Karnal's "Is Abbott straight", are allowed to stay on this part of the site, whereas some of our more right-wing poster's threads are relegated to other parts.

That's part of the reason why I have only made about 400 posts on here in about a year from joining. The disgusting comments, and the bias therein, from the mods.


You're taking it way to seriously


i wasnt aware that 'balance' and 'fairness' were such optional concepts. But I guess from a Green like you, it does sound about right (or is that hard left?)


Hey be nice..I always defended you when you were moderating  :P


What about Karnal? I haven't seen you criticse his disgusting threads harassing Matty, nor others who have posted digusting things about cods. Those two have copped so much that has been totally uncalled for, despicable and disgusting, and I haven't seen any mod or reprimand those who made them. In fact, a lot of left-wingers jump in and attack them as well.


Karnal is just taking the p!ss ..but as for those that abuse and attack each other I do agree, thats why I steer clear of personal attacks. But its still pretty tame when compared to similar sites and from what used to go on at the old Yahoo forums.


Maybe so, but he takes things too far, and he does it constantly as well. I am not a member of any other political forums, but I think that personal insults of any kind, towards any member, be they left, right or centre is uncalled for and disgusting.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by adelcrow on May 5th, 2012 at 9:16pm

john_g wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 7:26pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 7:11pm:

john_g wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 7:07pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:55pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

john_g wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:44pm:
I don't post that often on here, so am not fully aware of all details, but the moderating on this site leaves a lot to be desire.

As a neutral centrist, it does appear that the mods are left-biased, and disgusting posts like Karnal's "Is Abbott straight", are allowed to stay on this part of the site, whereas some of our more right-wing poster's threads are relegated to other parts.

That's part of the reason why I have only made about 400 posts on here in about a year from joining. The disgusting comments, and the bias therein, from the mods.


You're taking it way to seriously


i wasnt aware that 'balance' and 'fairness' were such optional concepts. But I guess from a Green like you, it does sound about right (or is that hard left?)


Hey be nice..I always defended you when you were moderating  :P


What about Karnal? I haven't seen you criticse his disgusting threads harassing Matty, nor others who have posted digusting things about cods. Those two have copped so much that has been totally uncalled for, despicable and disgusting, and I haven't seen any mod or reprimand those who made them. In fact, a lot of left-wingers jump in and attack them as well.


Karnal is just taking the p!ss ..but as for those that abuse and attack each other I do agree, thats why I steer clear of personal attacks. But its still pretty tame when compared to similar sites and from what used to go on at the old Yahoo forums.


Maybe so, but he takes things too far, and he does it constantly as well. I am not a member of any other political forums, but I think that personal insults of any kind, towards any member, be they left, right or centre is uncalled for and disgusting.


I know what you are saying and I agree but it is still pretty tame here compared to the old Yahoo boards.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by longweekend58 on May 7th, 2012 at 8:11pm

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:55pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

john_g wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:44pm:
I don't post that often on here, so am not fully aware of all details, but the moderating on this site leaves a lot to be desire.

As a neutral centrist, it does appear that the mods are left-biased, and disgusting posts like Karnal's "Is Abbott straight", are allowed to stay on this part of the site, whereas some of our more right-wing poster's threads are relegated to other parts.

That's part of the reason why I have only made about 400 posts on here in about a year from joining. The disgusting comments, and the bias therein, from the mods.


You're taking it way to seriously


i wasnt aware that 'balance' and 'fairness' were such optional concepts. But I guess from a Green like you, it does sound about right (or is that hard left?)


Hey be nice..I always defended you when you were moderating  :P


well you gotta remember that no good deed goes unpunished and so after supporting skippy on 3 occasions against attackers my reward was him getting a petition of 23 posters to have me removed. So now, screw it. enjoy the carnage. no debate, nothiong but abuse, 50 new reincarnated posters a week, suspensions-a-plenty and not a single clue how to ACTUALLY run a moderated forum. I only drop in here occasionally now and then only when I literally have nothing else to do. this has become a cess-pool of worthless drivel.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by Orgasm on May 7th, 2012 at 8:12pm

longweekend58 wrote on May 7th, 2012 at 8:11pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:55pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

john_g wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:44pm:
I don't post that often on here, so am not fully aware of all details, but the moderating on this site leaves a lot to be desire.

As a neutral centrist, it does appear that the mods are left-biased, and disgusting posts like Karnal's "Is Abbott straight", are allowed to stay on this part of the site, whereas some of our more right-wing poster's threads are relegated to other parts.

That's part of the reason why I have only made about 400 posts on here in about a year from joining. The disgusting comments, and the bias therein, from the mods.


You're taking it way to seriously


i wasnt aware that 'balance' and 'fairness' were such optional concepts. But I guess from a Green like you, it does sound about right (or is that hard left?)


Hey be nice..I always defended you when you were moderating  :P


well you gotta remember that no good deed goes unpunished and so after supporting skippy on 3 occasions against attackers my reward was him getting a petition of 23 posters to have me removed. So now, screw it. enjoy the carnage. no debate, nothiong but abuse, 50 new reincarnated posters a week, suspensions-a-plenty and not a single clue how to ACTUALLY run a moderated forum. I only drop in here occasionally now and then only when I literally have nothing else to do. this has become a cess-pool of worthless drivel.
You started it douche bag

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by longweekend58 on May 7th, 2012 at 8:13pm

john_g wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 7:07pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:55pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

john_g wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:44pm:
I don't post that often on here, so am not fully aware of all details, but the moderating on this site leaves a lot to be desire.

As a neutral centrist, it does appear that the mods are left-biased, and disgusting posts like Karnal's "Is Abbott straight", are allowed to stay on this part of the site, whereas some of our more right-wing poster's threads are relegated to other parts.

That's part of the reason why I have only made about 400 posts on here in about a year from joining. The disgusting comments, and the bias therein, from the mods.


You're taking it way to seriously


i wasnt aware that 'balance' and 'fairness' were such optional concepts. But I guess from a Green like you, it does sound about right (or is that hard left?)


Hey be nice..I always defended you when you were moderating  :P


What about Karnal? I haven't seen you criticse his disgusting threads harassing Matty, nor others who have posted digusting things about cods. Those two have copped so much that has been totally uncalled for, despicable and disgusting, and I haven't seen any mod or reprimand those who made them. In fact, a lot of left-wingers jump in and attack them as well.


well I speak from the experience of a former mod and know that you arent actually allowed to be an effective mod. that is against the rules. And im serious! perceptions only lasted as long s he did because he was utterly ineffective and therefore didnt attract attention.

Title: Re: Latest Newspoll
Post by longweekend58 on May 7th, 2012 at 8:16pm

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 9:16pm:

john_g wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 7:26pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 7:11pm:

john_g wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 7:07pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:56pm:

longweekend58 wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:55pm:

adelcrow wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

john_g wrote on May 5th, 2012 at 6:44pm:
I don't post that often on here, so am not fully aware of all details, but the moderating on this site leaves a lot to be desire.

As a neutral centrist, it does appear that the mods are left-biased, and disgusting posts like Karnal's "Is Abbott straight", are allowed to stay on this part of the site, whereas some of our more right-wing poster's threads are relegated to other parts.

That's part of the reason why I have only made about 400 posts on here in about a year from joining. The disgusting comments, and the bias therein, from the mods.


You're taking it way to seriously


i wasnt aware that 'balance' and 'fairness' were such optional concepts. But I guess from a Green like you, it does sound about right (or is that hard left?)


Hey be nice..I always defended you when you were moderating  :P


What about Karnal? I haven't seen you criticse his disgusting threads harassing Matty, nor others who have posted digusting things about cods. Those two have copped so much that has been totally uncalled for, despicable and disgusting, and I haven't seen any mod or reprimand those who made them. In fact, a lot of left-wingers jump in and attack them as well.


Karnal is just taking the p!ss ..but as for those that abuse and attack each other I do agree, thats why I steer clear of personal attacks. But its still pretty tame when compared to similar sites and from what used to go on at the old Yahoo forums.


Maybe so, but he takes things too far, and he does it constantly as well. I am not a member of any other political forums, but I think that personal insults of any kind, towards any member, be they left, right or centre is uncalled for and disgusting.


I know what you are saying and I agree but it is still pretty tame here compared to the old Yahoo boards.


which were the way they were because of no moderation. same problem! if you want a GOOD forum with genuine debate there just has to be firm rules strongly implemented and enforced. We almost had this back to a place that was working fairly well and then mozza stepped in and ruined it and that was it... i quit in disgust.

I keep looking for a decent political debate site but it is hard to find and the trouble is, if you removed the clowns and fools from here, what are you left with? about 10 peopll. of course perhaps if you were clown-free you could get some actual serious debate going.

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