Australian Politics Forum
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl
Member Run Boards >> Islam >> Do muslims even know what rape is?
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1335585972

Message started by freediver on Apr 28th, 2012 at 2:06pm

Title: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by freediver on Apr 28th, 2012 at 2:06pm
Falah, does Islam permit you to rape your wife?

When you claim I am lying about this, do you really mean that you do not recognise non-consensual sex as rape wherever Islam considers it to be legal?

Do you understand that just because you think it should be legal, does not mean it isn't rape?

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by falah on Apr 28th, 2012 at 2:21pm

Quote:
"O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness...on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good.
[The Noble Quran, an-Nissa, v.19]




Prophet Muhammed ordered men to treat their wives kindly:


Quote:
...act kindly towards women
[Saheeh al-Muslim]



Quote:
“And treat women with kindness, and treat women with kindness.”
[al-Bukhaari]




Quote:
The Prophet , said: “The best among you are those who are best to  their wives  and I am the best among you in treating my wives.”
[At-Tirmithi (Graded by Al-Albaani as authentic)]



Freediver, Islam stresses the importance of being kind to the wife. Do you consider rape to be kind treatment?

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by freediver on Apr 28th, 2012 at 2:23pm
I am well aware of Muhammed's hypocrisy thanks Falah.

What is the Islamic punishment for raping your wife?

Is this even considered a crime under Islamic law?

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by freediver on Apr 28th, 2012 at 2:46pm
Falah, should a Muslim husband have to obtain consent from his wife each time they have sex, or does the implied consent in marriage suffice?

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by falah on Apr 28th, 2012 at 2:48pm

freediver wrote on Apr 28th, 2012 at 2:23pm:
What is the Islamic punishment for raping your wife?

Is this even considered a crime under Islamic law?



Freediver, is there a punishment in the Bible for raping your wife?

Is there any religion which orders a punishment for raping your wife?

There was not even a punishment in Australia for raping your wife until fairly recently.

If there is no punishment, does than mean that it is considered to be acceptable?

Islam does not order a punishment for every single sin, transgression, or wrongdoing. There are some things which are left to God to decide guilt and punishment on the Day of Judgement.



However, Islamic law does allow punishment for those who physically injure others, and also allows women to obtain a divorce.

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by falah on Apr 28th, 2012 at 2:55pm

freediver wrote on Apr 28th, 2012 at 2:46pm:
Falah, should a Muslim husband have to obtain consent from his wife each time they have sex, or does the implied consent in marriage suffice?


Can you define what you mean by consent?

If a wife does not object, do you consider that consent?

Or do you mean the Swedish definition where you almost need written permission from the woman (and a condom)?


Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by Annie Anthrax on Apr 28th, 2012 at 3:47pm
A woman in Islam has the right to refuse to have sex with her husband, but it's frowned upon. If she has the right to refuse, obviously raping her is not permissable.


Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by freediver on Apr 28th, 2012 at 4:07pm

Quote:
A woman in Islam has the right to refuse to have sex with her husband, but it's frowned upon. If she has the right to refuse, obviously raping her is not permissable.


If raping her is not punished, does that mean it is legal and permissible?

It seems Falah was a bit more generous with the truth on this issue in the past:


falah wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 12:16pm:
Forced sex in marriage is not a punishable offence in Islam.


Falah, is forced sex in marriage rape?

Here is an interesting opinion from Falah about the role of consent in marital sex:


falah wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 7:57pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 6:52pm:
Okay.

Falah can you explain what you meant?


When you marry someone, you have a duty to care for them. This includes satisfying their sexual needs. Therefore, if you don't want to have sex with somebody, then you shouldn't marry them.



falah wrote on Mar 5th, 2012 at 9:39pm:

Quote:
When you marry someone, you have a duty to care for them. This includes satisfying their sexual needs. Therefore, if you don't want to have sex with somebody, then you shouldn't marry them.


What if you want to have sex with them occasionally, when both of you consent, rather than becoming their sex slave.


Isn't it selfish to deny your partner sex? Afterall sex doesn't cost you anything. [/quote]


freediver wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 9:52pm:
is that just western nonsense, like falling in love before you get married?


You mean try before you buy? Yes that is nonsense, and it is not what God wants from human beings.[/quote]

Marrying someone you are not in love with, denying the need for consent and not punishing marital rape is obviously a bad mix.


falah wrote on Mar 19th, 2012 at 10:54am:
If a man says "He does not feel like going out to work and providing for his family" do we accept this?

If a woman refuses sex to her husband then she has wronged him. Afterall, it would cost her nothing to do so.

However, there is no evidence in Islam o suggest that forcing people to have sex is permitted.


Falah, can you explain the apparent contradiction between saying that rape is not a punishable offense and saying there is no evidence it is permissible?


Quote:
Islam does not order a punishment for every single sin, transgression, or wrongdoing. There are some things which are left to God to decide guilt and punishment on the Day of Judgement.


Does that include raping your wife?

Given that you get stoned to death for adultery, that's an unusual set of standards don't you think?


Quote:
Is there any religion which orders a punishment for raping your wife?


Most religions do not double as legal systems and are not a barrier to secular laws that set a higher standard than in the past. Islam does. Are you now supporting the rejection of Islamic law in governance? Or is this another red herring to avoid giving a straight answer?


Quote:
Can you define what you mean by consent?


I am happy to go with the common definition, or as applied under Australian law.


Quote:
If a wife does not object, do you consider that consent?


Sure. Unless she is unconscious or something like that, and provided she is not denied the right and opportunity to object. I don't know why this is an issue. It should be obvious whether a woman consents to sex. Are you trying to avoid the question, or do you not know what consent or rape is?

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by Annie Anthrax on Apr 28th, 2012 at 4:20pm
Not objecting is certainly not the same as giving consent.


Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by freediver on Apr 28th, 2012 at 5:43pm
Not by itself, no, but there have to be exceptional circumstances for the courts to convict without it.

Falah, can you explain why you kept accusing me of lying in the other thread:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1335528293/24#24

and why you tried so hard to mislead people about this when you had previously admitted it?

Is it something to do with Taqiyya? When you accuse people of lying, does it mean they are to close to the truth for your comfort and you have no rational counterargument? And if you lie so much when you are likely to be caught out, do you lie more when you think you can get away with it?

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by Soren on Apr 28th, 2012 at 6:07pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 28th, 2012 at 3:47pm:
A woman in Islam has the right to refuse to have sex with her husband, but it's frowned upon. If she has the right to refuse, obviously raping her is not permissable.



How does a bearded numpty 'frown upon' the withholding of ..er.. booty? With a stick no thicker than his thumb.




Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by falah on Apr 28th, 2012 at 9:04pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 28th, 2012 at 4:20pm:
Not objecting is certainly not the same as giving consent.


I see. So in your world, does a woman have to give a written permission or does she just have to say "I want sex" before sex can take place?

What about the husband, should he give written permission too, or should he have to say "I want sex" as well?

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by freediver on Apr 28th, 2012 at 9:20pm
You really don't understand the whole consent vs rape thing do you Falah?

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by falah on Apr 28th, 2012 at 9:50pm

freediver wrote on Apr 28th, 2012 at 4:07pm:

Quote:
A woman in Islam has the right to refuse to have sex with her husband, but it's frowned upon. If she has the right to refuse, obviously raping her is not permissable.


If raping her is not punished, does that mean it is legal and permissible?


Not everything that is not punished in this word is legal and permissable

Some actions will be punished in the Hereafter.

God Almighty and His prophet have commanded kind treatment of women. Disobedience to God is something that a person can be punished for in the Hereafter.







freediver wrote on Apr 28th, 2012 at 4:07pm:
It seems Falah was a bit more generous with the truth on this issue in the past:


falah wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 12:16pm:
Forced sex in marriage is not a punishable offence in Islam.


Meaning not punishable in this life. As I have said before God Almighty has commanded Muslims to treat women kindly. And God may punish those who disobey Him.



falah wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 12:16pm:
Falah, is forced sex in marriage rape?


According to current fashion in Australia it is, but a few decades ago it wasn't







freediver wrote on Apr 28th, 2012 at 4:07pm:
Okay.

Falah can you explain what you meant?

Quote:
When you marry someone, you have a duty to care for them. This includes satisfying their sexual needs. Therefore, if you don't want to have sex with somebody, then you shouldn't marry them.



If you marry someone you don't want to have sex with, you would be doing a disservice to both yourself and your future spouse.







Quote:
Falah, can you explain the apparent contradiction between saying that rape is not a punishable offense and saying there is no evidence it is permissible?


Rape not punishable? I did not say that. Are you lying again Freediver?

Having sex when one does not have the right to do so is punishable in Islam. I have told you this before, and mentioned that a person can even be stoned to death for this or face other punishments.






Quote:
[quote]Islam does not order a punishment for every single sin, transgression, or wrongdoing. There are some things which are left to God to decide guilt and punishment on the Day of Judgement.


Does that include raping your wife? [/quote]

As I have said previously, God Almighty ordered Muslims to be kind to their women. If they disobey God, he has the right to punish whom He wills.




Quote:
Given that you get stoned to death for adultery, that's an unusual set of standards don't you think?


What are you saying Freediver, that you think that a man should be stoned to death for having sex with his wife?





Quote:
[quote]Is there any religion which orders a punishment for raping your wife?


Most religions do not double as legal systems and are not a barrier to secular laws that set a higher standard than in the past. Islam does. Are you now supporting the rejection of Islamic law in governance? Or is this another red herring to avoid giving a straight answer?[/quote]

Except Judaism, and Christianity for the first 1 and 1/2 millienia.




Quote:
[quote]Can you define what you mean by consent?


I am happy to go with the common definition, or as applied under Australian law.[/quote]


Why Australian law? Do you have such great faith in Australian politicians to get it right?  Australian politicians are fairly good at proving that they are incompetent. Do you approve of the carbon tax Freediver? It is Australian law so it must be right?


Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by freediver on Apr 28th, 2012 at 10:58pm

Quote:
Not everything that is not punished in this word is legal and permissable


And here I was thinking you were changing the definition of rape to suit Islamic propaganda. Silly me, you were changing the definition of legal.


Quote:
According to current fashion in Australia it is, but a few decades ago it wasn't


Falah, you appear to be confusing what is punished with what is actually rape. Do you know what rape is? If rape is legalised, does it cease to be rape? Do you have your own opinion on whether forced sex on marriage is rape?


Quote:
If you marry someone you don't want to have sex with, you would be doing a disservice to both yourself and your future spouse.


Again, you seem confused about what rape is Falah. We have explained this to you before. Sex is not something you can give meaningful consent forever to. Agreeing to marry someone does not mean you want to have sex at their whim every time.


Quote:
Rape not punishable? I did not say that. Are you lying again Freediver?


You did say that Falah. Which word are you changing the definition of now? Are you back to saying forced sex is not rape?


falah wrote on Mar 4th, 2012 at 12:16pm:
Forced sex in marriage is not a punishable offence in Islam.


You see Falah, this is what happens when you concoct such an absurdly convoluted set of 'alternative meanings' and facades. You lose track of what you can and cannot say and your spin starts to unravel. Better to be honest and straight about these things. You just can't pull something like this off.


Quote:
Having sex when one does not have the right to do so is punishable in Islam.


So a husband must have a legal right to rape his wife in Islam?


Quote:
As I have said previously, God Almighty ordered Muslims to be kind to their women.


Are you changing the definition of kind now? This would be a whole lot easier if you spoke English Falah, rather than pretend English where words have the opposite of their real meaning if it suits Islamic PR.


Quote:
What are you saying Freediver, that you think that a man should be stoned to death for having sex with his wife?


No. I think stoning someone to death is a sick and twisted thing to do. I am saying it is a very big contrast between being stoned to death for consensual sex (yes I know you have a different definition of this too) and no punishment at all for rape.


Quote:
Why Australian law? Do you have such great faith in Australian politicians to get it right?  Australian politicians are fairly good at proving that they are incompetent. Do you approve of the carbon tax Freediver? It is Australian law so it must be right?


No Falah. Because most people have a grasp of the meaning of rape and consent, and don't say stupid things like why would you marry someone if you didn't want to have sex with them. The legal definition of consent and rape was arrived at through common law, not statutory law. It is basically common sense.

Were you always so confused about what rape and consent mean, or did Islam cloud your judgement?

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by falah on Apr 29th, 2012 at 12:34pm

freediver wrote on Apr 28th, 2012 at 10:58pm:

Quote:
Not everything that is not punished in this word is legal and permissable


And here I was thinking you were changing the definition of rape to suit Islamic propaganda. Silly me, you were changing the definition of legal.

[quote]According to current fashion in Australia it is, but a few decades ago it wasn't


Falah, you appear to be confusing what is punished with what is actually rape. Do you know what rape is? If rape is legalised, does it cease to be rape? Do you have your own opinion on whether forced sex on marriage is rape?[/quote]

Freediver are you referring to rape in its historical lingusitic sense or are you referring to how feminists and subsequently, politicians in Australia according to latest fashion have defined it?

Do you define a word by how Australian politicians have legislated?


Historically, in English language the term "rape" meant to seize something by force which someone had no right to.

The English word "rape" comes to us from the Latin "raptus" which meant kidnapping or abduction.

Does a husband have the right to have sex with his wife?

If a husband does have the right to have sex with his wife, then what you are referring to is something other than rape (ignoring Australia's politicians' definition).

If he does not have the right, then you would be correct to call it rape.

So at the crux of the question is our understanding of marriage.

What is marriage?

Is a marriage a union of two people?

Do we accept that a husband feeds himself and starves his wife?

Somehow in this society, it has beccome fashionable to think that a wife has the right to deny her husband sex, yet hypocritically, society would be outraged if a husband fed denied his wife food or clothing.

Does marriage mean a union of two people who share what they have?

Wikipedia describes marriage as:


Quote:
marriage...is usually an institution in which interpersonal relationships, usually intimate and sexual, are acknowledged. Such a union is often formalized via a wedding ceremony.


Some of the older English dictionaries describe marriage as union between a man and a woman.

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines marriage as:


Quote:
the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/marriage


Do we look at marriage as a spiritual and physical union or through the prism of individualism promoted in the West?

The term "rape" implies no legal right to access. Does a husband have no right to his wife?

So what is marriage? Has it become a meaningless term in the West.






Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by freediver on Apr 29th, 2012 at 12:47pm
So if you have a right to have sex with someone, that means it is not rape if you rape them?

Does consent ever come into it?


falah wrote on Apr 29th, 2012 at 12:34pm:
Somehow in this society, it has beccome fashionable to think that a wife has the right to deny her husband sex, yet hypocritically, society would be outraged if a husband fed denied his wife food or clothing.


:o

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by falah on Apr 29th, 2012 at 12:51pm

freediver wrote on Apr 29th, 2012 at 12:47pm:
So if you have a right to have sex with someone, that means it is not rape if you rape them?

Does consent ever come into it?


falah wrote on Apr 29th, 2012 at 12:34pm:
Somehow in this society, it has beccome fashionable to think that a wife has the right to deny her husband sex, yet hypocritically, society would be outraged if a husband fed denied his wife food or clothing.


:o



Is it logical to think that a husband does not have a right to have sex with his wife?

What is your definition of marriage Freediver? Two random people with no rights over each other whatsoever?

Can you explain what your definition of rape is Freediver? Do you automatically refer to Australian law as though it is infallible?

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by Annie Anthrax on Apr 29th, 2012 at 12:59pm

Quote:
Do we accept that a husband feeds himself and starves his wife?

Somehow in this society, it has beccome fashionable to think that a wife has the right to deny her husband sex, yet hypocritically, society would be outraged if a husband fed denied his wife food or clothing.



Falah, you need help. I pity your wife.

Sex without consent is rape. You are condoning and excusing the sexual violation of women's bodies by the men who are supposed to love them and in your religion, protect them.


If my husband raped me, he'd want to consider himself very lucky if he survived the divorce as anything but a eunuch.


Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by freediver on Apr 29th, 2012 at 1:01pm

Quote:
Is it logical to think that a husband does not have a right to have sex with his wife?


Sex between consenting adults is a right. Rape is not a right. It is not logical to confuse the two. They key to rape is consent, not the 'right to rape'.


Quote:
What is your definition of marriage Freediver? Two random people with no rights over each other whatsoever?


Marriage does entail a few legal and moral rights over the other person, but none that are relevant here. Everything else in marriage is voluntary, including sex.


Quote:
Can you explain what your definition of rape is Freediver?


Sex without consent.


Quote:
Do you automatically refer to Australian law as though it is infallible?


It has a pretty good grasp of rape and consent. Do you reject Australia's rape laws?

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by Annie Anthrax on Apr 29th, 2012 at 1:02pm

Soren wrote on Apr 28th, 2012 at 6:07pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 28th, 2012 at 3:47pm:
A woman in Islam has the right to refuse to have sex with her husband, but it's frowned upon. If she has the right to refuse, obviously raping her is not permissable.



How does a bearded numpty 'frown upon' the withholding of ..er.. booty? With a stick no thicker than his thumb.



I would have thought you'd be well versed in the old adage that size doesn't matter.

A propely weilded stick no thicker than your thumb can still serve it's purpose.

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by freediver on Apr 29th, 2012 at 1:05pm
According to Abu the purpose is to humiliate your wife into submission. I still think a soggy miswak would do that better than a stick. A stick would just make her angry. Maybe that's just a sign of the times.

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by falah on Apr 29th, 2012 at 1:54pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 29th, 2012 at 12:59pm:

Quote:
Do we accept that a husband feeds himself and starves his wife?

Somehow in this society, it has beccome fashionable to think that a wife has the right to deny her husband sex, yet hypocritically, society would be outraged if a husband fed denied his wife food or clothing.



Falah, you need help. I pity your wife.

Sex without consent is rape. You are condoning and excusing the sexual violation of women's bodies by the men who are supposed to love them and in your religion, protect them.


If my husband raped me, he'd want to consider himself very lucky if he survived the divorce as anything but a eunuch.



Annie you are confused.

I have not endorsed forced sex in marrigae. I have questioned whether it is the same as rape though. Why was it not considered rape in Australian law until recently?

I have never forced anyone to have sex, nor do I plan to.

It has never been my problem that women refuse me sex. Actually, the problem I am used to is shooing away amorous  women - although problem has subsided a bit as I have gotten older and passed my peak - but even so I still find women taking interest.

If I had a wife like you Annie, I would get a divorce, and the problem would be solved.







I pity your husband, sounds like he is having a hell of a time with you. How was it that you  descibed him? "W***er" wasn't it?


Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by freediver on Apr 29th, 2012 at 4:10pm
Falah were you always this confused about the meaning of consent, or is it only since you became a Muslim?

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by freediver on Apr 29th, 2012 at 4:15pm
More confusion from Falah about the meaning of consent. Apparently your wife does not need to consent, only God (ie Muslim men) does:


falah wrote on Apr 29th, 2012 at 2:56pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 29th, 2012 at 9:13am:
Just to put the punishment for rape into perspective, consensual sex can be punished with being stoned to death.


Consensual sex is never punished in Islam. Because God Almighty, the owner of our bodies, does not consent to us performing adultery.

How is adultery consensual? Does God consent to it? Does the cheated on spouse consent to it?

Adultery is not consensual sex.


Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by Annie Anthrax on Apr 29th, 2012 at 6:16pm

falah wrote on Apr 29th, 2012 at 1:54pm:
It has never been my problem that women refuse me sex. Actually, the problem I am used to is shooing away amorous  women - although problem has subsided a bit as I have gotten older and passed my peak - but even so I still find women taking interest.



Are you making another funny, Falah?

I laughed - not because I doubt you - you could be Johnny Depp with a beard for all I know, but just because it is so unlike anything I've read from you.



Quote:
If I had a wife like you Annie, I would get a divorce


No you wouldn't.


Quote:
How was it that you  descibed him? "W***er" wasn't it?


I have never said a negative word about my husband on this forum. I was talking about the reward in heaven for pious Muslim women - the way most Muslim men relay it, she's getting a bit ripped off.



Quote:
I pity your husband, sounds like he is having a hell of a time with you.


Yes. I think he likes it.

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by Avram Horowitz on Apr 29th, 2012 at 6:24pm
I could not marry a Muslim.

I have a nice girlfriend! A girl from New York City though.

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by Soren on Apr 30th, 2012 at 12:31pm
In "Distant View of a Minaret," the late and much-neglected Egyptian writer Alifa Rifaat begins her short story with a woman so unmoved by sex with her husband that as he focuses solely on his pleasure, she notices a spider web she must sweep off the ceiling and has time to ruminate on her husband's repeated refusal to prolong intercourse until she too climaxes, "as though purposely to deprive her." Just as her husband denies her an orgasm, the call to prayer interrupts his, and the man leaves. After washing up, she loses herself in prayer -- so much more satisfying that she can't wait until the next prayer -- and looks out onto the street from her balcony. She interrupts her reverie to make coffee dutifully for her husband to drink after his nap. Taking it to their bedroom to pour it in front of him as he prefers, she notices he is dead. She instructs their son to go and get a doctor. "She returned to the living room and poured out the coffee for herself. She was surprised at how calm she was," Rifaat writes.

In a crisp three-and-a-half pages, Rifaat lays out a trifecta of sex, death, and religion, a bulldozer that crushes denial and defensiveness to get at the pulsating heart of misogyny in the Middle East. There is no sugarcoating it. They don't hate us because of our freedoms, as the tired, post-9/11 American cliché had it. We have no freedoms because they hate us, as this Arab woman so powerfully says.

Yes: They hate us. It must be said.


http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/04/23/why_do_they_hate_us

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by brumbie on Apr 30th, 2012 at 8:30pm
Lest we forget...and of course we will forget...because we are merely humans....and those battles that our ancesters fought we are deemed to fight again. Beware the false Prophet.

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by bludger on May 3rd, 2012 at 11:47pm
What's the age of consent for marriage in muslim society?
Is it true your leader married a 12 year old kid?
Is it true men stone women to death?
If any of the above are true and you are a true believer do you consider yourself fit to live amongst us?
Because I don't.

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by falah on May 4th, 2012 at 11:34am

bludger wrote on May 3rd, 2012 at 11:47pm:
What's the age of consent for marriage in muslim society?
Is it true your leader married a 12 year old kid?
Is it true men stone women to death?
If any of the above are true and you are a true believer do you consider yourself fit to live amongst us?
Because I don't.


What age does a person become an adult?
Does the US execute women? Do you hate the US if it does?

Do you feel happy that violent offenders are treated with kid gloves because they have not reached the arbitrary age of 18?




Quote:
Victim's life in tatters as violent teen fights jail


A violent teenager with a six-year history of criminal offending is trying to avoid a sentence in an adult prison for a brutal knife attack that has left an intellectually disabled supermarket worker's life in ruins.

The 20-year-old was stabbed in the back and received large and deep lacerations to his left arm and both legs and needed five blood transfusions in what his mother described as a callous, heartless and inhumane attack.

A Victorian County Court judge yesterday heard the man had been left seriously physically disabled, was unable to sleep, eat or socialise, had lost his job and now may never achieve his ambition of being a dog trainer.

He said in a victim impact statement he had lost the use of his arm and hand, cannot jog, run, swim, lift weights or bend down, walks with a limp and needs care for day-to-day living.

The offender, who cannot be named as he was aged 17 years and 10 months at the time of the attack in October last year, has 13 pages of prior convictions, all recorded in children's courts from April, 2005.

Now 18, he pleaded guilty to charges of intentionally causing serious injury, recklessly causing injury and theft in a case uplifted from a Childrens Court to the County Court.

Prosecutor Elizabeth McKinnon said he and two others entered the supermarket in Caulfield South about 8.30pm before he was stopped for shoplifting several small items.

Ms McKinnon said he struggled violently with and assaulted two staff members, but when left alone at the back of the store by the "intimidated" staff he removed a 30 centimetre knife from a shelf.

The youth then grabbed the victim by the scruff of the neck and forced him to the rear of the store where he attacked him and left him in a pool of blood...

...The victim's mother, who has been forced to retire from work to care for her son, said in a victim impact statement she and her husband were overseas at the time but flew home immediately "not knowing whether he would live or die".

The defendant's barrister said he would argue that his client, who was "clearly a very vulnerable young man", should ultimately be detained in a youth justice centre rather than adult jail.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/victims-life-in-tatters-as-violent-teen-fights-jail-20120503-1y03c.html



According to your definition, this 17 year-old was merely a child who should be treated like a naughty boy and given a slap on the wrist.

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by bludger on May 4th, 2012 at 11:44am
See how religion stuffs everything up?

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by freediver on May 4th, 2012 at 11:52am
At least Falah is consistent. Ask him about rape and he finds you an article about a stabbing.

Falah have you figured out yet whether Islam legalises rape?

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by falah on May 4th, 2012 at 12:03pm
You want a story about rape Freeliar?

Here is one hot off the press.

Obviously these 17 year-olds are just children and should be dealt with like the children that they are, yes?

Name suppression, short stint in a juvenile detention centre, yes?


Quote:
A 17-year-old male is expected to appear in an Alice Springs court today and two others are being held, charged in connection with the alleged rapes at gunpoint of two European tourists.

One of the Aboriginal teenagers has been charged with sexual assault.

The other two, both 17, are being interviewed by Northern Territory Police and are expected to be charged.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-04/three-teens-arrested-in-alice-springs-rape-cases/3991034



Because everybody is obviously a child until they are 18 right?

Title: Re: Do muslims even know what rape is?
Post by freediver on May 4th, 2012 at 2:34pm

Quote:
You want a story about rape Freeliar?


No Falah. I am perfectly capable of googling random rape stories myself. How about straight answers?

Australian Politics Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.5.2!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2024. All Rights Reserved.