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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl General Discussion >> General Board >> I Can Change Your Mind About Climate Change http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1335403803 Message started by thelastnail on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 11:30am

Title: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate Change
Post by thelastnail on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 11:30am

8.31pm - 9. 33 pm ABC1 Tonight

Quote:

Join sceptic, Nick Minchin, and believer Anna Rose, as they set out on a worldwide journey to try and change each other's minds about an issue on which Australians have never been more divided - climate change.

Followed by a special Edition of Q&A

Quote:

Rebecca Huntley - social researcher and writer
Nick Minchin - Former Liberal Minister
Anna Rose - founder of the Australian Youth Climate Coalition
Clive Palmer - mining magnate
Dr Megan Clark - Chief Executive of the CSIRO

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by it_is_the_light on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 11:40am

By Marc Morano -- Climate Depot
MSNBC, perhaps the most unlikely of news sources, reports on what may be seen as the official end of the man-made global warming fear movement.

MSNBC April 23, 2012: 'Gaia' scientist James Lovelock reverses himself: I was 'alarmist' about climate change & so was Gore! 'The problem is we don't know what the climate is doing. We thought we knew 20 years ago'

Contrast Lovelock's 2012 skeptical climate views with his 2007 beliefs during the height of the man-made climate fear movement. [ Flashback 2007: Lovelock Predicts Global Warming Doom: 'Billions of us will die; few breeding pairs of people that survive will be in Arctic' ]

How fitting that a major organ of the man-made climate fear promotion, MSNBC, would deliver one of the final and most dramatic death knells to the climate movement. One of the founders of climate alarm bails out with help from the media that helped hype and propel the movement.

More MSNBC article excerpts: Lovelock pointed to Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" and Tim Flannery's "The Weather Makers" as other examples of "alarmist" forecasts of the future..."The problem is we don't know what the climate is doing. We thought we knew 20 years ago. That led to some alarmist books -- mine included -- because it looked clear-cut, but it hasn't happened," Lovelock said. "The climate is doing its usual tricks. There's nothing much really happening yet. We were supposed to be halfway toward a frying world now," he said. "The world has not warmed up very much since the millennium. Twelve years is a reasonable time... it (the temperature) has stayed almost constant, whereas it should have been rising -- carbon dioxide is rising, no question about that," he added...Asked if he was now a climate skeptic, Lovelock told msnbc.com: "It depends what you mean by a skeptic. I'm not a denier." He said human-caused carbon dioxide emissions were driving an increase in the global temperature, but added that the effect of the oceans was not well enough understood and could have a key role. "It (the sea) could make all the difference between a hot age and an ice age," he said. 'I made a mistake' As "an independent and a loner," he said he did not mind saying "All right, I made a mistake." He claimed a university or government scientist might fear an admission of a mistake would lead to the loss of funding."

Climate Depot began reporting on Lovelock's conversion away from climate fears in 2010 as he began reconsidering the alleged 'settled science." See below for Climate Depot's reporting on the evolution of James Lovelock's climate views.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kht8LAdpyMI&feature=player_embedded

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by red baron on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 12:02pm

Finally - someone is getting it right. The Climate Scientists have been trying to stampede the World into believing the end's nigh. IT ISN'T!

In today's Blue Mountains Gazette, the Blue mountains City Council have foreshadowed substantial increases in rates, because of the Carbon Tax and the increased running costs for Council with Garbage collection etc.

This is the start of the 'DROWNING POOL' ...The one in which we will all drown financially as a result of this folly called the Carbon Tax which won't change anything except the balance of our bank accounts.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Uncle Meat on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 12:27pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 11:30am:

8.31pm - 9. 33 pm ABC1 Tonight

Quote:

Followed by a special Edition of Q&A

[quote]Rebecca Huntley - social researcher and writer
Nick Minchin - Former Liberal Minister
Anna Rose - founder of the Australian Youth Climate Coalition
Clive Palmer - mining magnate
Dr Megan Clark - Chief Executive of the CSIRO

[/quote]

Excellent! Should be good.

I'm an AGW sceptic, but always willing to analyse new information. My mind could certainly be changed by credible, reliable data.

The AGW disciples, however, have made up their minds and nothing will ever convince them that they may be wrong. Sad really.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Uncle Meat on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 2:34pm

red baron wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 12:02pm:

In today's Blue Mountains Gazette, the Blue mountains City Council have foreshadowed substantial increases in rates, because of the Carbon Tax and the increased running costs for Council with Garbage collection etc.

"Household garbage collection and tip fees will rise in July, with Blaxland tip emissions forecast to cost more than $11.3 million over 20 years due to the carbon tax."

http://www.bluemountainsgazette.com.au/news/local/news/general/fees-to-rise-as-carbon-tax-bites/2532464.aspx

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by buzzanddidj on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 3:12pm

A "must see" !

buzzanddidj wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 10:19am:

My FAVOURITE "Minchinisms" ...

Quote:

NICK MINCHIN, SENATOR, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION IN THE SENATE:

"For 10 years the left internationally have been very successful in exploiting peoples' innate fears about global warming and climate change to achieve their political ends"

"For the extreme left it provides the opportunity to do what they've always wanted to do, to sort of de-industrialise the western world. You know the collapse of communism was a disaster for the left, and the, and really they embraced environmentalism as their new religion"

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2009/s2737676.htm

I'm assuming Malcolm Turnbull and World Vision CEO,the Reverend Tim Costello,
are card holder's in Nick's "extreme left" ?

Also of relevance ...

Minchin's climate conspiracy
November 12, 2009

AND they say that conspiracy theories are the domain of the left ?.

Not so, if you listened to this week's Four Corners program in which the Opposition leader in the Senate, Nick Minchin, outlined his explanation of why efforts to tackle climate change had gained such momentum.

''For the extreme left, it provides the opportunity to do what they have always wanted to do, which is to sort of de-industrialise the Western world.

The collapse of communism was a disaster for the left and, really, they embraced environment as their new religion.''

Which would be funny if he didn't mean it and didn't hold such a senior leadership position in our parliament.

To a large extent, this week's Four Corners program simply laid out in detail what we already knew: that the Liberal and National parties are home to a significant number of climate-change deniers - those who would deny that human activity is a significant contributor to climatic changes.

Whether they are in the majority remains an open question, despite Minchin's bold claim that they are

The climate scepticism of the senior former Howard government minister is well known, but Minchin's comments aired this week are so inflammatory as to require a response.

There can be no more denying his denial.
Clearly his belief is deeply held.
Clearly he is at odds with his party's leadership on the matter.

It is time for him to examine seriously whether it is appropriate for him to hold the office of party leader in the Senate when he has no intention of falling into line with his party's leadership on this issue.

Having the nation's Opposition party in the Senate led by two trenchant climate-change deniers - Senator Barnaby Joyce for the Nationals and Minchin for the Liberals - is untenable.

Minchin should demonstrate the same level of honesty as Malcolm Turnbull, who has staked his leadership over the issue: back me or sack me.

Australia has more to lose than most from a changing climate. Reliant on agriculture, we already are suffering from limited water resources. And yet our cities cling to shorelines that will disappear as seawaters rise.

We should be at the forefront of efforts to tackle climate change, which the vast majority of the credible scientific world tells us is happening - and is the result of human activity.

Business leaders have also accepted the challenge and are demanding solutions and certainty to thrive.

The time for conspiracy theories, and their exponents, is over. The time for action is upon us.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/editorial/minchins-climate-conspiracy-20091111-i9wf.html#ixzz1t62muFLU

The junk science behind Minchin's climate change denial
14 March 2011

ABC News reported on Friday that Senator Nick Minchin rejects a recent Australian government report about climate change, because Minchin claims the globe is more likely to be cooling than warming.

Ross Garnaut, according to Minchin, "knows nothing about the climate", because Garnaut is an economist, rather than a climate scientist. Minchin went on to cite the work of a climate scientist at the University of Alabama who says that models have generally overstated the sensitivity of climate to greenhouse gas emissions, and recent warming has likely been due to a "natural cycle".

This unnamed scientist is almost certainly Dr. Roy Spencer, a meteorologist at the University of Alabama-Huntsville, in the United States.

In climate science, there is a clear consensus. Two recent peer-reviewed studies have shown that 97-98% of working climate scientists think humans are significantly affecting the Earth’s climate.

So why does Senator Minchin glom onto the work of a single scientist, whose views are representative of such a tiny minority?

It turns out that Roy Spencer’s views are on the fringes for good reasons.

Spencer published a 2008 paper in which he used a simple model of the Earth’s climate to show that standard methods for estimating climate sensitivity were greatly overstating warming effects.

It turns out that other climate scientists (including one that initially gave Spencer’s paper a favourable review) have now published a paper showing Spencer was only able to obtain this result by assuming unrealistic values for various model parameters.
If realistic values are used, the effect Spencer described is negligible.

Spencer has done further work in which he claims to show with his simple climate model that, not only is climate sensitivity low, but most of the global warming in the 20th century can be explained by a natural cycle he called the "Pacific Decadal Oscillation"

Dr. Spencer tried to get this work published, but it didn’t pass peer review.

Politicians like Senator Minchin usually want to be seen as tough-minded iconoclasts who boldly go where the evidence leads them. In this case, however, we can clearly see that there is no compelling reason to think Roy Spencer’s work trumps that of the rest of the climate science community. In fact, much of his work is of demonstrably poor quality.

The sordid truth of the matter seems, instead, to be that Senator Minchin simply believed whichever expert would tell him what he wanted to hear.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/45086.html

"What Makes Nick Tick ?"

I'm damned if I know what makes ANY climate change denier "tick"
ESPECIALLY those with all the DATA and FACTS at their fingertips

But MORE importantly ...

WHAT IS THEIR AGENDA ?

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Uncle Meat on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 3:17pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 3:12pm:

The junk science behind Minchin's climate change denial

ABC News reported on Friday that Senator Nick Minchin rejects a recent Australian government report about climate change, because Minchin claims the globe is more likely to be cooling than warming.

He doesn't deny climate change.

He says the world is more likely to be cooling.

Cooling is a change.

::)

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by longweekend58 on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 5:51pm

Why do 'deniers' have to have an agenda? Why cant they just believe that AGW is crap for not other reason than that they believe it is crap? I dont have an agenda. I just think AGW is crap because i think the 'science' is grossly over-stated and ultimately is little more than opinion based on climate models that are about as wrong as it is possible to be. temperatures have rised a few tentths of a degree and then stopped and about to go into reversal. big deal. You'd almost think it had never happened before execpt of course it has and much larger changes. This is nothing more than an example of that phenomenon whereby we finally get the abilityto measure something accurately and then we go into a orgy of self deprecation thinking we are about to all kill ourselves. The hole in the ozone layer is a the classic example. it has been there for millenia without us even being aware of it. it grows and shrinks of its own accord and yet we think we caused it to grow. and even worse, when it shrunk we told ourselves how good we were because we banned aerosols despite the fact that those changes havent even yet reached the level tha the ozone level resides at....

AGW is junk. it is crap science and even worse manipulation. Teh loudest voices are those that knoe nothiong about it - like Flannery and Garnaut and even Gore.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by nairbe on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:15pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 5:51pm:

It's alright longwhine, it is a free country believe what you like. Global warming is a lefty conspiracy, Galileo is a heretic for saying the earth is round and Aids can be cured by having sex with a virgin. It's fine, there there, there there. ::) ::) ;)

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Uncle Meat on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:23pm

nairbe wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:15pm:

Do you mean AGW?

You do know the difference, don't you?

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by nairbe on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:26pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:23pm:

nairbe wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:15pm:

Do you mean AGW?

You do know the difference, don't you?

OH dear we are splitting hairs, you know there is a good treatment for that i'll ask my barber for some after all he is a global warming genius, just ask him.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Uncle Meat on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:37pm

nairbe wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:26pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:23pm:

nairbe wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 6:15pm:

Do you mean AGW?

You do know the difference, don't you?

OH dear we are splitting hairs, you know there is a good treatment for that i'll ask my barber for some after all he is a global warming genius, just ask him.

Ah, no: it's not splitting hairs at all. ::)

However, your ignorance of that fact is quite typical among the AGW disciples.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by thelastnail on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 7:54pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 5:51pm:

and you and Nick Minchin know everything of course :D LOL

skeptics argument goes like this:-

"AGW is false because vested interests stand to lose a lot of money from not being able to sell their polluting crap !!"

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by it_is_the_light on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 8:23pm

http://www.abc.net.au/environment/articles/2012/04/26/3489733.htm

The Q&A special later this evening is an opportunity for more of their comments to be aired on the national broadcaster.

Let me be clear: these people have a right to their views. If they choose to believe, as some do, that the majority of scientists working on climate change are part of some vast, international plot to bring about a single world government with totalitarian powers, it's their own business.

___________

people do not need permission to research and build

a belief upon the facts and lies perpetrated by

governments and 'the science' total collusion

corporations and big business pollute and suppress

free energies

namaste

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Uncle Meat on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 9:10pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 7:54pm:

skeptics argument goes like this:-

"AGW is false because vested interests stand to lose a lot of money from not being able to sell their polluting crap !!"

No, it goes like this:

"There's currently not enough credible, reliable evidence to support the AGW hypothesis. However, this may change in the future. We'll continue to keep an open mind on the subject."

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by bobbythebat1 on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 10:58pm

There was no point to make tonight in the debate because it's already agreed that something has to be done by most of the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

Quote:

Most countries are parties to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC),[14] whose ultimate objective is to prevent "dangerous" anthropogenic (i.e., human-induced) climate change.[15] Parties to the UNFCCC have adopted a range of policies designed to reduce greenhouse gas emissions[16]:10[17][18][19]:9 and to assist in adaptation to global warming.[16]:13[19]:10[20][21] Parties to the UNFCCC have agreed that deep cuts in emissions are required,[22] and that future global warming should be limited to below 2.0 °C (3.6 °F) relative to the pre-industrial level.[22][B] A 2011 report of analyses by the United Nations Environment Programme[23] and International Energy Agency[24] suggest that efforts as of the early 21st century to reduce emissions may be inadequately stringent to meet the UNFCCC's 2 °C target.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by thelastnail on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 11:35pm

Notice how the libbos still want to wring the last drop out of their polluting fossil fools before they consider doing anything else.

The libbos are a dangerous species !! The libbos have no concept of risk !! Everything has to be in black and white for a libbo to understand it !!

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by thelastnail on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:01am

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 9:10pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 7:54pm:

skeptics argument goes like this:-

"AGW is false because vested interests stand to lose a lot of money from not being able to sell their polluting crap !!"

so would you like to challenge any other peer reviewed scientific hypothesis and theory about any other subject or do you only become a scientific expert when it comes to science which directly effects your RIO Tinto and BHP share price ??

perhaps you'd like to challenge the understanding of the mating rituals of fire flies in a jam jar or maybe you are not interested in that ??

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate Change
Post by nairbe on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 6:02am

I managed to watch most of it then fell asleep,(bad habit with the TV) but i noticed one thing, Minchin had his reference people and not one of them was expert in the field they we speaking of, all he did was denigrate his argument by proving it was histeria. Anna rose on the other hand was not a great choice for the pro AGW side. She was weak, emotional and i can only think second choice.

In the end nothing was gained either way, the smoking gun for AGW is still not quite there but climate change and the deterioration of the environment is sure. What we are going to do about the destruction and pollution of the only life support unit we have and will have for a very long time is the question. The deniers seem to think that by narrowly defining the question to a small area of question about AGW rather than addressing GW as a whole will allow them to ignore their responsibilities to the community, planet and survival of the species we share this planet with.

Denial is not an educated position it is a political position.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate Change
Post by MOTR on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 6:30am

The smoking gun exists, it is why 97% of climate scientists accept AGW.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate Change
Post by nairbe on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 7:01am

MOTR wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 6:30am:

The smoking gun exists, it is why 97% of climate scientists accept AGW.

Then explain it to the deniers, i accept AGW but i do understand that in science it is weight of evidence that establishes the probability that human activity is creating an artificial acceleration in the climatic change toward a dryer hotter environment.

Probably more interesting was Catalysts that was on before and the problems WA is having with die back in it's very limited forests. With such a clear and present danger how do denialists sleep at night?

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate Change
Post by MOTR on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 7:21am

People smarter than me have tried to explain the smoking gun, but that doesn't mean the deniers are going to listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHhLcoPT9KM&sns=em

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2m9SNzxJJA&sns=em

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate Change
Post by locutius on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 11:19am

The deniers are not completely stupid. They just happen to be smart enough to make "stupid" look good.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Uncle Meat on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 11:28am

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:01am:

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 9:10pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 7:54pm:

skeptics argument goes like this:-

"AGW is false because vested interests stand to lose a lot of money from not being able to sell their polluting crap !!"

LOL You couldn't be further from the truth young fella.

I have no shares, and I'm on the far left of politics. A socialist.

Additionally, I've always voted either Green or ALP. I wouldn't cast a vote for the Liberal Party if I had a gun put to my head.

Having said that, AGW is a dubious hypothesis. Not enough credible, reliable evidence exists to demonstrate that humans are causing the globe to warm.

Climate change, however, certainly is real.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 11:46am

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 11:28am:

I have no shares, and I'm on the far left of politics. A socialist.

.

Working for a Union (useless bunch of wasters if ever there were a group) and supports allowing in dropkick boat people.

Tell you what you've stunned me at your political persuasion.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 11:48am

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 11:28am:

I wouldn't cast a vote for the Liberal Party if I had a gun put to my head.
.

There's that lovely Union open mind we are so used to seeing and hearing.

Reminds me of going into a meeting with the AMWU the other year.
Our head of HR to me "This is gonna be fun. If you ever thought you met the most obstinate, most arrogant bunch of c**ts in your life. Prepare to meet far worse. These pr*cks add no value to anything and just want to cost us money. You see, they'll demand 10% wage increase up front when we start..."

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Uncle Meat on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 11:50am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 11:46am:

Working for a Union (useless bunch of wasters if ever there were a group) ...

You obviously have no idea what unions do. Not surprising.
I'm guessing you get all of your union "information" from the Channel 7 News. Nice one ::)

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 11:46am:

...and supports allowing in dropkick boat people.

"dropkick"??? Boat people are legal asylum seekers?

You have a problem with legal asylum seekers?

What a strange person you are. :-/

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 11:46am:

Tell you what you've stunned me at your political persuasion.

You do realise what side of politics unions are on, don't you? :o

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Uncle Meat on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 11:52am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 11:48am:

There's that lovely Union open mind we are so used to seeing and hearing.

I'm concerned with workers' rights.

The Liberal Party's agenda is to minimise workers' rights.

You don't know a lot about politics, do you? ::)

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate Change
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 11:54am

I have had to be in meetings we have had with unions relating to our manufacturing sites.

Utter w*nkers and I know this from first hand dealings thanks.

All they did was make issues harder to resolve.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by thelastnail on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:11pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 11:28am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:01am:

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 9:10pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 26^th, 2012 at 7:54pm:

skeptics argument goes like this:-

"AGW is false because vested interests stand to lose a lot of money from not being able to sell their polluting crap !!"

I'm quite satisfied with the evidence that we are responsible for it.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate Change
Post by thelastnail on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:14pm

nairbe wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 7:01am:

MOTR wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 6:30am:

The smoking gun exists, it is why 97% of climate scientists accept AGW.

They sleep with their paper money under their bed and in their pillow and mattress. Sort of warm fuzzy feeling ;)

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate Change
Post by Uncle Meat on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:20pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 11:54am:

Not all unions are the same.

I don't do work for the militant ones.

I take your point though.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Uncle Meat on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:23pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:11pm:

I'm quite satisfied with the evidence that we are responsible for it.

Could your mind ever be changed if new evidence was presented?

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by thelastnail on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:26pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:23pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:11pm:

I'm quite satisfied with the evidence that we are responsible for it.

Could your mind ever be changed if new evidence was presented?

Yes of course but the weight of the evidence suggests otherwise.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:27pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:11pm:

I'm quite satisfied with the evidence that we are responsible for it.

Another open mind.
You'd never tell Australians were stuck on an island the other side of the world to the rest of us would you?
;D

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by thelastnail on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:30pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:27pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:11pm:

I'm quite satisfied with the evidence that we are responsible for it.

Another open mind.
You'd never tell Australians were stuck on an island the other side of the world to the rest of us would you?
;D

Unlike the typical skeptic which believes the following !

"AGW is false because vested interests stand to lose a lot of money from not being able to sell their polluting crap !!"

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Uncle Meat on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:50pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:30pm:

Unlike the typical skeptic which believes the following !

"AGW is false because vested interests stand to lose a lot of money from not being able to sell their polluting crap !!"

Incorrect.

AGW sceptics claim that scientific data, to date, does not support the hypothesis that humans cause global warming and that the planet will be "wrecked".

AGW sceptics remain open minded though, and if new evidence is presented we'll always take the time to analyse it.

Thus, the debate continues (which I know, infuriates the AGW disciples).

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by thelastnail on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 1:00pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:50pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:30pm:

Unlike the typical skeptic which believes the following !

"AGW is false because vested interests stand to lose a lot of money from not being able to sell their polluting crap !!"

So you think clive palmer is open minded do you :D LOL

Skeptics denial and interest in this one aspect of science and no other is usually based on monetary considerations.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Uncle Meat on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 1:06pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 1:00pm:

So you think clive palmer is open minded do you :D LOL

Skeptics denial and interest in this one aspect of science and no other is usually based on monetary considerations.

OK, we're both making generalisations.

No, Clive isn't open minded.

I am though, and my current opinions about AGW are based purely on science. Monetary considerations are not an issue for me.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Soren on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 1:17pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:26pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:23pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:11pm:

I'm quite satisfied with the evidence that we are responsible for it.

Could your mind ever be changed if new evidence was presented?

Yes of course but the weight of the evidence suggests otherwise.

Oh yeah? Well, what would falsify your AGW theory?

If you are really thinking scientifically, as you claim, you would be able to identify the falsifiability of your theory.
In other words, what observation or experiment would conclusively contradict your theory (Considering that there is no causal correlation between atmospheric CO2 changes and global climate changes, the former being the cause and the latter the effect, in the ranges of additional atmospheric CO2 we can pin on humanity.)

But you can't because you do not understand the science and are just seduced by the politics and the propaganda.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by thelastnail on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 1:27pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 1:06pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 1:00pm:

So you think clive palmer is open minded do you :D LOL

Skeptics denial and interest in this one aspect of science and no other is usually based on monetary considerations.

OK, we're both making generalisations.

No, Clive isn't open minded.

I am though, and my current opinions about AGW are based purely on science. Monetary considerations are not an issue for me.

Then why aren't you submitting your research and evidence for peer review ? What's stopping you ?

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by thelastnail on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 1:32pm

Soren wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 1:17pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:26pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:23pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 12:11pm:

I'm quite satisfied with the evidence that we are responsible for it.

Could your mind ever be changed if new evidence was presented?

Yes of course but the weight of the evidence suggests otherwise.

It's all about risk management. If we assume the science is 90% correct and reinvest in cleaner renewable energy sources such as solar thermal instead of setting fire to a finite source of polluting coal then what have we lost ?

I couldn't give a flying bugger about clive palmer or some greedy shareholder with BHP or RIO Tinto shares could you ?

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Uncle Meat on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 2:13pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 1:32pm:

I couldn't give a flying bugger about clive palmer or some greedy shareholder with BHP or RIO Tinto shares could you ?

Nope. At least we agree on something.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 2:27pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 2:13pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 1:32pm:

I couldn't give a flying bugger about clive palmer or some greedy shareholder with BHP or RIO Tinto shares could you ?

Nope. At least we agree on something.

Agree on the BHP ones.
However given I have RIO ones, I do kinda care.....

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Uncle Meat on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 3:16pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 2:27pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 2:13pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 1:32pm:

I couldn't give a flying bugger about clive palmer or some greedy shareholder with BHP or RIO Tinto shares could you ?

Nope. At least we agree on something.

Agree on the BHP ones.
However given I have RIO ones, I do kinda care.....

Fair enough.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 3:21pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 3:16pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 2:27pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 2:13pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 1:32pm:

I couldn't give a flying bugger about clive palmer or some greedy shareholder with BHP or RIO Tinto shares could you ?

Nope. At least we agree on something.

Agree on the BHP ones.
However given I have RIO ones, I do kinda care.....

Fair enough.

I used to have Pacific Brands shares.
I got a bit sick of seeing Pat Rafter turning up in the mail in his jocks.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Uncle Meat on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 3:40pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 3:21pm:

I used to have Pacific Brands shares.
I got a bit sick of seeing Pat Rafter turning up in the mail in his jocks.

I'm not touching that one.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by bobbythebat1 on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 3:54pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 3:40pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 3:21pm:

I used to have Pacific Brands shares.
I got a bit sick of seeing Pat Rafter turning up in the mail in his jocks.

I'm not touching that one.

Once again - homos turning a thread into a homo discussion.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Andrei.Hicks on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 3:58pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 3:54pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 3:40pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 3:21pm:

I used to have Pacific Brands shares.
I got a bit sick of seeing Pat Rafter turning up in the mail in his jocks.

I'm not touching that one.

Once again - homos turning a thread into a homo discussion.

Bobby mate, you're fking touched I swear man.

I swear you're one of the kids who used to shower with their speedos on at school "in case someone looked at my arse".

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate Change
Post by blackadder on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 4:00pm

Once again - homos turning a thread into a homo discussion.

They did it just for you batpoo.

I guess you know these haunts.

http://www.pinkboard.com.au/guide/map/Melbourne

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Uncle Meat on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 4:11pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 3:54pm:

Once again - homos turning a thread into a homo discussion.

Why do you insist on doing that?

Are you still thinking about getting (thelast)nailed? ;)

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by nairbe on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 6:45pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 4:11pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 3:54pm:

Once again - homos turning a thread into a homo discussion.

Why do you insist on doing that?

Are you still thinking about getting (thelast)nailed? ;)

It is amazing how the denialists can manage to get so far off subject to ensure they don't have to answer any real questions or actually justify their position with real evidence. ;D ;D ;D ;)

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Uncle Meat on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 6:46pm

nairbe wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 4:11pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 3:54pm:

Once again - homos turning a thread into a homo discussion.

Why do you insist on doing that?

Are you still thinking about getting (thelast)nailed? ;)

It is amazing how the denialists can manage to get so far off subject to ensure they don't have to answer any real questions or actually justify their position with real evidence. ;D ;D ;D ;)

Who are the "denialists"?

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by nairbe on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 6:48pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 6:46pm:

nairbe wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 4:11pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 3:54pm:

Once again - homos turning a thread into a homo discussion.

Why do you insist on doing that?

Are you still thinking about getting (thelast)nailed? ;)

It is amazing how the denialists can manage to get so far off subject to ensure they don't have to answer any real questions or actually justify their position with real evidence. ;D ;D ;D ;)

Who are the "denialists"?

Yep that's the direction i'm talking of. ;D

Who cares about the personal cat fight you two are having

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by Uncle Meat on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 6:52pm

nairbe wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 6:48pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 6:46pm:

nairbe wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 4:11pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 3:54pm:

Once again - homos turning a thread into a homo discussion.

Why do you insist on doing that?

Are you still thinking about getting (thelast)nailed? ;)

It is amazing how the denialists can manage to get so far off subject to ensure they don't have to answer any real questions or actually justify their position with real evidence. ;D ;D ;D ;)

Who are the "denialists"?

Yep that's the direction i'm talking of. ;D

I have said repeatedly that I am an AGW sceptic.

I have also said repeatedly that climate change is real. No doubt about it. No denying it at all.

So, how about answering the question instead of avoiding it.

Who are the "denialists" and what are they denying?

It's not a difficult question. Give it a go.

Title: Re: I Can Change Your Mind About Climate
Post by nairbe on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 6:57pm

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 6:52pm:

nairbe wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 6:48pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 6:46pm:

nairbe wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 6:45pm:

Uncle Meat wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 4:11pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 27^th, 2012 at 3:54pm:

Once again - homos turning a thread into a homo discussion.

Why do you insist on doing that?

Are you still thinking about getting (thelast)nailed? ;)

It is amazing how the denialists can manage to get so far off subject to ensure they don't have to answer any real questions or actually justify their position with real evidence. ;D ;D ;D ;)

Who are the "denialists"?

Yep that's the direction i'm talking of. ;D

you call yourself a sceptic. Fair enough but don't be slow. As i said earlier i fell asleep about half way through but to that point i was left in the same position. The denialist team had not managed to put one person up with a shred of credibility with any actual evidence. The AGW side had all the same clear statistics and models that demonstrate the problem. So the denialists have nothing but their desire for greed and lot's of bad mouthing and the science is just that thread short of a smoking gun. I in such a case will go with the weight of evidence rather than the fairy tale. Yes it will cost me and there is a 1 in 10 million chance their wrong so hell, imagine if we do all that work to make a better world for nothing.