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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl Member Run Boards >> Islam >> Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1327799946 Message started by Baronvonrort on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 11:19am

Title: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Baronvonrort on Jan 29^th, 2012 at 11:19am

Islam is not compatible with the United Nations Universal declaration of human rights.

Islam has the death penalty for apostasy which is a thought crime.

Quote:

Why is the apostate to be executed in Islam?

The evidence that the apostate is to be executed is the words of the Prophet (pbuh) "Whoever changes his religion,execute him (narrated Al Bukhari ,2794),What is meant by religion here is Islam (ie whoever changes from Islam to another religion)
Source-http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/20327/apostate

Death for apostasy violates article 18 from the United Nations Universal declaration of human rights-
http://www.un.org/events/humanrights/2007/hrphotos/declaration%20_eng.pdf

The Saudi's said they could sign this document because it violates Islamic law,Iran signed it then could not implement it because it violates Islamic law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights

Islam is not compatible with The Universal Declaration of human rights see how many articles are violated in this video showing the brutality of the Islamic regime in Iran-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwR51TtfIIk

Sharia law is not compatible with human rights.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Baronvonrort on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 11:17am

Abu-Falah-Lestat

Care to discuss the differences between Sharia law vs The Universal Declaration of human rights?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Yadda on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 11:49am

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 11:17am:

Abu-Falah-Lestat

Care to discuss the differences between Sharia law vs The Universal Declaration of human rights?

The Universal Declaration of human rights = = un-ISLAMIC.

And the Universal Declaration of human rights is kfir [demonstrates 'unbelief', in those who support its un-ISLAMIC values].

What more is there to say ?

+++

Moslems demand the human right to kill unbelievers who resist ISLAM's authority.

What is wrong with those human rights of moslems ???

Surely you kufar can see, that these are only 'good works' ?
/sarc off

"....fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them,...."
Koran 9.5

......but only "when the forbidden months are past,"

What does that mean Abu, only when the forbidden months are past ?

Am i taking Koran 9.5 out of context ???

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by falah on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 1:09pm

Who made up the Universal Declaration of human rights? God or imperfect humans? Who has the right to make laws the Creator or the Created?

Does the Bible conform to the Universal Declaration of human rights?

What is the punishment for apostasy in the Bible?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Yadda on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 1:32pm

falah wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 1:09pm:

"You talking to me ?"

Numbers 30:2
If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

God said that Hebrews must keep their covenant, that they made with God.

And that covenant breakers should be put to death.

i said that here.....
more muslim daily madness
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1238715411/458#458

But God made it clear, that 'unbelievers' were NOT to be oppressed or murdered by Hebrews,
....because they were 'unbelievers'.

e.g.
The RELIGIOUS LAWS of Judaism state.....

Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him...

Exodus 23:9
Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger...

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself...

n.b.
.....and thou shalt love him as thyself

Deuteronomy 1:16
And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

Deuteronomy 10:17-19
For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger, ...Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 24:17
Thou shalt not pervert the judgment of the stranger, nor of the fatherless; nor take a widow's raiment to pledge:
18 But thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore I command thee to do this thing.

Deuteronomy 27:19
Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger...

+++

God intended that the Hebrews should be AN EXAMPLE to other peoples.

GOD'S LAW - 'judgments so righteous' - 'what nation...hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law'

Deuteronomy 4:1
Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
3 Your eyes have seen what the LORD did because of Baalpeor: for all the men that followed Baalpeor, the LORD thy God hath destroyed them from among you.
4 But ye that did cleave unto the LORD your God are alive every one of you this day.
5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it.
6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.
7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for?
8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

Again,......
God intended that the Hebrews should be AN EXAMPLE to other peoples.

Not that the Hebrews should oppress and murder other peoples - in God's name.

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85

"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."
hadithsunnah/bukhari #004.052.196

Got it yet, falah ????

Set a good example.

Don't be an oppressor.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Baronvonrort on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 1:34pm

falah wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 1:09pm:

The Universal declaration of human rights is man made.

The Quran was passed down over many years like a series of chinese whispers it was trusted to the memory of the hafiz before a caliph made a book out of it how many years after Mo died because the hafiz were getting killed in battles.
And muslims claim the Quran is not man made?

Muslims claim the Quran has never been corrupted yet the verse on stoning is missing.
Bukhari said the verse was revealed and read so where is it if the Quran has never been corrupted?

Was the Quran made by imperfect humans or is it divine in origin?

Why do the Saudi's and Iran say the Universal Declaration of human rights violates Islamic laws?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by gizmo_2655 on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 2:15pm

falah wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 1:09pm:

Seriously???..
Mankind (governments) make up declarations on 'rights'...'God' makes up punishments for ill treatment...

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 8:09pm

Yadda wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 1:32pm:

falah wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 1:09pm:

Why did you not answer him about the Bible conforming to the Universal Declaration stuff?

I wonder if it conforms to the declaration if one executes a child for cursing their parents:

ie. "He who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death." (Exodus 21:17)

Yadda wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 1:32pm:

And that covenant breakers should be put to death.

Yeh I doubt that conforms either. "Broke an oath?? Off with your head!!"

Yadda wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 1:32pm:

But God made it clear, that 'unbelievers' were NOT to be oppressed or murdered by Hebrews,
....because they were 'unbelievers'.

Except if they be designated enemies of Yahweh, then it's a must to slay them, old and young, men and women, even beasts of burden, but not the little virgins.

See Numbers 31.

Yadda wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 1:32pm:

God intended that the Hebrews should be AN EXAMPLE to other peoples.

So how they dealt with the Midianites is an example? ie. genocide the hell outta 'em? And take the little virgins for booty?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Yadda on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 8:44pm

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 8:09pm:

So how they dealt with the Midianites is an example? ie. genocide the hell outta 'em? And take the little virgins for booty?

"See! See! It is in the Old Testament Bible. The Hebrews destroyed whole nations, and took their possessions and women as booty!!! So we moslems can too! Coz, we MOSLEMS are God's people today!" [an expression of glee, appears on Abu's face, and upon the face of every good moslem] :D

Abu,

And if the God of Israel told the Hebrews to destroy the Midianites >> because << the Midianites sacrificed their children to demons, then that was a bad call on God's part ???

Is that what you are suggesting ???

Abu,

Do you condone this policy of moslems, sacrificing their children to the cause of their god, Allah........ ???

see the images of children suicide bombers, here.....
Arab world in revolt, how will the West fare?
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1296163674/58#58

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 5:47am

Yadda wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 8:44pm:

That was not why. Clearly you haven't even read your own book, yet you consider yourself an authority on the books of other religions.

"And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites" (Numbers 31:1-2)

"And [so] it was, when Israel had sown, that the Midianites came up, and the Amalekites, and the children of the east, even they came up against them... And Israel was greatly impoverished because of the Midianites; and the children of Israel cried unto the LORD." (Judges 6:3-6)

Basically they were getting revenge because the Midianites had destroyed their crops. And so for that, they committed genocide against men, women and children. This is the "Yahweh" that you follow, the one who said:

"Yahweh is a man of war, Yahweh is his name" (Exodus 15:3)

Even if we were to accept your claim about child sacrifice, does that justify in your book murdering men, women and children? I guess when you worship a "man of war" anything is possible isn't it.

Yadda wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 8:44pm:

Abu,

Do you condone this policy of moslems, sacrificing their children to the cause of their god, Allah........ ???

see the images of children suicide bombers, here.....
Arab world in revolt, how will the West fare?
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1296163674/58#58

When a people are "vexed" enough then they will goto extremes to protect themselves. Peoples under occupation and constant siege will end up becoming a warrior people, each and every one of them will have to fight to defend themselves.

This speaks volumes about the one doing the vexing doesn't it?

But then again in your eyes the vexers are the chosen ones, and the vexed are the designated enemies of your "man-o-war", so that's all righteous isn't it?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by falah on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 9:01am

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 5:47am:

Yadda wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 8:44pm:

That was not why. Clearly you haven't even read your own book, yet you consider yourself an authority on the books of other religions.

"And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites" (Numbers 31:1-2)

"And [so] it was, when Israel had sown, that the Midianites came up, and the Amalekites, and the children of the east, even they came up against them... And Israel was greatly impoverished because of the Midianites; and the children of Israel cried unto the LORD." (Judges 6:3-6)

Basically they were getting revenge because the Midianites had destroyed their crops. And so for that, they committed genocide against men, women and children. This is the "Yahweh" that you follow, the one who said:

"Yahweh is a man of war, Yahweh is his name" (Exodus 15:3)

Lol...what kind of evil religion justifies killing babies?

Yadda your religion encourages you to do genocide. You, yourself have said you would do genocide.

What kind of religion do you follow?

If you truly believe you are on the religion of God, I challenge you to join with me and ask God to curse whichever one of us is on the false religion.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Baronvonrort on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 11:51am

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 8:09pm:

Why did you not answer him about the Bible conforming to the Universal Declaration stuff?

This thread is about Islam why do you deviate from the topic?

I am an atheist i dont belive in the bible,what relevance does the bible have to an atheist?

We have separation of church and state in the west our constitution does not allow religious laws.

Abu-
Why did the Saudi's and Iran say the Universal declaration of human rights violates Islamic law?

Are muslims living in the dark ages compared to the west when it comes to human rights?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by falah on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 12:27pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 11:51am:

I am an atheist

ahh yes, and your atheist brothers, Stalin, Chairman Mao, and Pol Pot, also pretended to be concerned with human rights - even when they killed millions.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Baronvonrort on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 1:50pm

falah wrote on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 12:27pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 11:51am:

I am an atheist

ahh yes, and your atheist brothers, Stalin, Chairman Mao, and Pol Pot, also pretended to be concerned with human rights - even when they killed millions.

Atheism is the lack of belief in god(s).
It contains no dogmas,rituals,actions,belief system,tenets,etc.
There is nothing about atheism which would provide a casual link between atheism and any action.

Pol Pot was a buddhist he did not believe in god yet he believed in the afterlife so he cannot be an atheist.
Do Atheists believe in the afterlife Falah?

Stalin had a father who was a priest how much time did he spend in the seminary falah?

Communism and fascism were the ideologies here it had nothing to do with atheism.
Naziism,Communism,Maoism were all dogmas we opposed.

Bob Hawke was an atheist Prime Minister did he give us medicare?

Falah-
Is having sex with and marrying children a good thing?
If you say NO then Mohammad is not your moral guide!

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by falah on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 4:39pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 1:50pm:

Pol Pot was a buddhist he did not believe in god yet he believed in the afterlife so he cannot be an atheist.
Do Atheists believe in the afterlife Falah?

Stalin had a father who was a priest how much time did he spend in the seminary falah?

Dress it up any way you want, but they were atheist leaders.

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 1:50pm:

Naziism,Communism,Maoism were all dogmas we opposed.

A little curious as to who you mean by "we", because I am fairly certain that you and I have never met.

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 1:50pm:

Bob Hawke was an atheist Prime Minister did he give us medicare?

An atheist perhaps, but limited in his atheism endeavours by the Australian parliamentary system which required him to have the support of a parliament of mostly non-atheists.

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 1:50pm:

Falah-
Is having sex with and marrying children a good thing?
If you say NO then Mohammad is not your moral guide!

Prophet Muhammed's wives themselves said that he never consumated a marriage with a wife who had not reached puberty.

Throughout most of human history, the definition of child (for marriage purposes) has been someone who has not reached puberty.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Yadda on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 1:16am

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 5:47am:

[on the subject of destroying the Midianites.....]

Even if we were to accept your claim about child sacrifice, does that justify in your book murdering men, women and children?

I guess when you worship a "man of war" anything is possible isn't it.

Abu,
Q #1,
So Allah DOES NOT allow the killing of women and children ?

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 5:47am:

Yadda wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 8:44pm:

Abu,
Q #2,
So Allah DOES allow the killing of women and children, IN ALLAH'S CAUSE ?

+++

Abu,

You are a walking example of how 'reason' and 'rationality' can be used by men, to justify any atrocity or wickedness.
.....changing your 'form' [changing your 'moral' stance], depending upon which side of the fence of morality you are standing on, at any particular time.

#1,
God destroying a people who sacrificed their children to demons, is 'questionable' and 'shocking'.

#2,
While at the same time, a people sacrificing their children, for 'the cause of their God', is 'justified' and 'reasonable'.

+++

Abu, you said.....

"When a people are "vexed" enough then they will goto extremes to protect themselves."

That sounds rational.

People will go to extremes 'to protect themselves'.

......by making suicide bombers, OF THEIR CHILDREN.

????????????

Rationally, if a people [e.g. the 'Palestinians'] were fighting a war, wouldn't RATIONAL PEOPLE WANT to remove their children from the war zone ?

To ensure the safety of their children ?

But unfortunately for the poor, unfortunate 'Palestinians' there is nowhere nearby, for the 'Palestinian' children to find sanctuary.....
/sarc off

IMAGE

LOOK AT THE MAP.

LOOK AT THE SPACE AVAILABLE IN THE REGION.

COMPARE THE SMALL SIZE OF THE LAND OF ISRAEL, WITH THE LARGE AREA OF SAUDI ARABIA.

According to ISLAM/moslems, there is no place [i.e. there can be no tolerance] for a Jewish state anywhere in the Middle East.

Why so?

The Jewish people have so little.

The moslems have so much.

And REMEMBER, the land which the Jewish people have [i.e. the land of Israel], is the ancient homeland of the Jewish people.

But moslems will not allow an non-moslem state/entity to live among moslems in the region.

And that, is what the moslem conflict with Israel is about.

Moslems refuse to TOLERATE an sovereign un-ISLAMIC state among them.

Because ALL moslems are, intolerant moslems.

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Baronvonrort on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 11:49am

falah wrote on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 4:39pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 1:50pm:

Dress it up any way you want, but they were atheist leaders.

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 1:50pm:

Naziism,Communism,Maoism were all dogmas we opposed.

A little curious as to who you mean by "we", because I am fairly certain that you and I have never met.

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 1:50pm:

Bob Hawke was an atheist Prime Minister did he give us medicare?

Falah-
Is having sex with and marrying children a good thing?
If you say NO then Mohammad is not your moral guide!

Falah-
Ifyou are a muslim who says Islam s the only true religion then that indicates you do not believe in other religions.
A musim is an atheist when it comes to other religions.
A muslim only has to say the first part of the shahada to become an atheist.
"There is no god....." is the only part of the shahada an atheist will speak.

Abu claimed Ibn Sina was a muslim when the reality is he was an atheist in the golden age of atheism.
Why do muslims try to pass of Ibn Sina as a muslim when al Ghazali declared he as an atheist?
Thread here exposing Abu's lies in claiming an atheist was a muslim.
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1312088017

There is no atheist ideology you cannot cite a atheist bible because there is none.

We have hada few atheist leaders in Australia-
John Gorton.John Curtin,Gough Whitlam,Bob Hawke and Julia.
Atheism is growing faster than any religion in Australia according to the 2006 census-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_Australia

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Yadda on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 12:24pm

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 7^th, 2012 at 5:47am:

"Yahweh is a man of war, Yahweh is his name" (Exodus 15:3)

Even if we were to accept your claim about child sacrifice, does that justify in your book murdering men, women and children? I guess when you worship a "man of war" anything is possible isn't it.

.......
.......

......in your eyes the vexers are the chosen ones, and the vexed are the designated enemies of your "man-o-war", so that's all righteous isn't it?

You hate God Abu, because his enemies are your friends.

+++

It is our choices in this life, and our integrity [or our lack of integrity !!! ] which is a witness against us, BEFORE GOD, and which reveals who we are.

We can not hide it.

+++

Abu,

Are YOU faithful and true ?

And, is YOUR master faithful and true ?

OR, is YOUR master a deceiver ?

According to the Koran [i.e. according to Allah himself], 'Allah is the best of schemers.' [.....the best deceiver]

And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers.
Koran 3.54

Google;
99 names of allah, deceiver

In the Bible, the God of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, is attributed thus,

Job 12:16
With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his.

;) ;D

+++

Abu,

And you 'complain', that God is a man of war ????

Revelation 19:11
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Too bad Abu.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by falah on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 10:02pm

Yadda wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 12:24pm:

You hate God Abu, because his enemies are your friends.

Iam certain Abu Rashid is not friends with you Yadda, so your claim is false.

Yadda wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 12:24pm:

Abu,

Are YOU faithful and true ?

And, is YOUR master faithful and true ?

OR, is YOUR master a deceiver ?

According to the Koran [i.e. according to Allah himself], 'Allah is the best of schemers.' [.....the best deceiver]

Yadda the verse does not say "the best deceiver" it says "the best of planners".

...And they (Jews) plotted [to kill Jesus], but God planned too. And God is the Best of the planners.
(The Qur'an, Aalee Imran (Family of Jesus) v.54)

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Soren on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 10:34pm

Planner, schemer - what's the difference? The context makes it clear that the disbelievers were schemeing. Allah out-schemed them.
That's the point.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by falah on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 11:08pm

Soren wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 10:34pm:

Planner, schemer - what's the difference? The context makes it clear that the disbelievers were schemeing. Allah out-schemed them.
That's the point.

But somehow in Yadda's translation it becomes "deceiver", which is not accurate at all.

It would be like someone saying "Jews are a thrifty people" and then if we apply Yadda's translation style that he uses for the Quran it would come out as: "Jews are money-lovers (they steal)"

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 11:12pm

The word means to plan to strategise, devise, it does not mean to deceive.

In fact the same word exists in Hebrew (and in the Bible) and it means to engage in business (ie. to plan and manage a business). There is nothing negative about this name at all.

One who is "makar" is intelligent and wise, not deceptive. Also the word is qualified by the adjective khyr, meaning "of pure goodness". So he is the one who plans and strategises in a purely good way, khyr ul-makireen.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 11:14pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

Abu claimed Ibn Sina was a muslim when the reality is he was an atheist in the golden age of atheism.
Why do muslims try to pass of Ibn Sina as a muslim when al Ghazali declared he as an atheist?
Thread here exposing Abu's lies in claiming an atheist was a muslim.
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1312088017

So why did he begin his books with the words "Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Raheem"?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Baronvonrort on Feb 9^th, 2012 at 8:29am

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 11:14pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 11:49am:

So why did he begin his books with the words "Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Raheem"?

How can Ibn Sina be a muslim as well as an atheist is that some kind of Islamic logic?

Quote:

Other scholars stated Ibn Sina was an atheist before Al-Huwaini did amongst them is - Al Ghazali- Ibn Tamiyah-Ibn Al Qayim and Al Dhahabi
Source-http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=87783

The vast majority of these scientists were Persians- Falah says the shia are not muslims...lol.

Muhammad al Razi wa another atheist from the golden age of atheism.
http://e-paa.org/articles/freethinkers-history-muhammad-ibn-zakariya-al-razi

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Yadda on Feb 9^th, 2012 at 11:32am

falah wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 10:02pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 12:24pm:

According to the Koran [i.e. according to Allah himself], 'Allah is the best of schemers.' [.....the best deceiver]

And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers.
Koran 3.54

Quote:

Allah – The Greatest Deceiver of them All

Sam Shamoun

The Quran describes Allah as the best deceiver there is, a liar who is not above using the same evil and wicked schemes of his opponents.

For example, the Quran calls Allah a makr, in fact the best makr there is:

But they (the Jews) were deceptive, and Allah was deceptive, for Allah is the best of deceivers (Wamakaroo wamakara Allahu waAllahu khayru al-makireena)! S. 3:54; cf. 8:30

Other texts that identify Allah as a makr include:

Are they then secure from Allah's deception (makra Allahi)? None deemeth himself secure from Allah's deception (makra Allahi) save folk that perish. S. 7:99

So they schemed a scheme: and We schemed a scheme (Wamakaroo makran wamakarna makran), while they perceived not. S. 27:50

The word for deception/deceiver/scheme is makr. The lexical sources define the term as:

Miim-Kaf-Ra = To practice deceit or guile or circumvention, practice evasion or elusion, to plot, to exercise art or craft or cunning, act with policy, practice stratagem.

makara vb. (1)
perf. act. 3:54, 3:54, 7:123, 13:42, 14:46, 16:26, 16:45, 27:50, 40:45, 71:22
impf. act. 6:123, 6:123, 6:124, 8:30, 8:30, 8:30, 10:21, 12:102, 16:127, 27:70, 35:10
n.vb. 7:99, 7:99, 7:123, 10:21, 10:21, 12:31, 13:33, 13:42, 14:46, 14:46, 14:46, 27:50, 27:50, 27:51, 34:33, 35:10, 35:43, 35:43, 71:22
pcple. act. 3:54, 8:30

LL, V7, p: 256 (Source)

And:

He practised DECEIT, GUILE, or CIRCUMVENTION, desiring to do another a foul, an abominable, or an evil action, clandestinely or without his knowing whence it proceeded. (Lane’s Arabic-English Lexicon; source)

Lest Muslims accuse these lexicons of bias or distortion notice what Muslim scholar Dr. Mahmoud M. Ayoub says when he asks,

"how the word makr (scheming or plotting), which implies deceitfulness or dishonesty, could be attributed to God." (The Quran and Its Interpreters – The House of Imran [State University of New York Press [SUNY], Albany 1992], Volume II, p. 165; italic emphasis ours)

After listing several Muslim sources he quotes a renowned Muslim expositor named ar-Razi who wrote that,.....
[and on, and on......]

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/allah_best_deceiver.htm
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Versions/003.054.html

Google;
Allah is the best of schemers, lie

+++

The testimony of MY God, is truth.

Job 12:16
With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his.

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Isaiah 65:15
And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:
16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Genesis 22:15
And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Hebrews 6:13
For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
14 Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.
17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by falah on Feb 9^th, 2012 at 1:32pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 9^th, 2012 at 8:29am:

The vast majority of these scientists were Persians- Falah says the shia are not muslims...lol.

Did it occur to you that there are millions of Persians who are not shi-ites?

...and that there might be different types of shi-ites?

For the Twelver Shi-ite sect, found mostly in Iran, it is only the government and leaders who are considered to be outside of Islam. The ordinary person on the street is technically considered muslim unless he utters the heresies of his leaders.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 9^th, 2012 at 7:32pm

Actually the majority of Persians were not Shi'a in the early days of Islam. It was only later under the Buwayhi and Safawi empires that they became Shi'a and enforced Shi'ism on others.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Yadda on Feb 9^th, 2012 at 7:55pm

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 9^th, 2012 at 7:32pm:

Actually the majority of Persians were not Shi'a in the early days of Islam. It was only later under the Buwayhi and Safawi empires that they became Shi'a

......and enforced Shi'ism on others.

Surely not!

How un-ISLAMIC of them, how un-moslem of them.
/ sarc off

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."
Koran 2.256

Koran 2.256 is now an 'abrogated' [put aside by Allah] Koran verse, which moslems no longer 'take hold' of.

Because, ......Allah changed his mind and said...

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85

"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 9^th, 2012 at 10:40pm

Yadda,

These verses do not contradict, you just have a devious mind that seeks out contradictions where there are none, since deviancy is your delight.

There is most certainly no compulsion IN religion, you cannot force anyone to enter IN to Islam.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Yadda on Feb 10^th, 2012 at 12:42am

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 9^th, 2012 at 10:40pm:

Yadda,

These verses do not contradict,

you just have a devious mind that seeks out contradictions where there are none, since deviancy is your delight.

There is most certainly no compulsion IN religion, you cannot force anyone to enter IN to Islam.

>> I << know that there is no contradiction in those verses, .....in your moslem mind Abu.

Look at the moslem 'logic'....

"You can choose conversion, submission, or death.
.....**NO COMPULSION**! YOU CHOOSE."

Moslems are duplicitous.

Everyday, moslems present Koran verse 2.256, to the naive and uninformed non-moslems, as 'proof' that ISLAM is a tolerant religion.

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."
Koran 2.256

Yet, where moslems have authority in government, they commonly oppress and murder non-moslems, because they are, non-moslems.

Duplicitous.

Dictionary;
duplicity = =
1 deceitfulness.
2 archaic the quality of being double.

Quote:

"LET THERE BE NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION......."

The famous Koran verse, often offered to naive non-moslems,
....'proving' ISLAM's tolerance of other religions,
....and, REALLY proving that, ALL GOOD MOSLEMS ARE BARE FACED LIARS....

"Let there be no compulsion in religion......."
Koran 2:256

The darker interpretation on this 'soft' verse,
.....AND AN 'INTERPRETATION' WHICH MILITANT MOSLEMS ACCEPT, IS,

"You can choose conversion, submission, or death.
.....**NO COMPULSION**! YOU CHOOSE."

EXAMPLES HERE,

Iraq -
4 March 2007
Iraq's Mandaeans 'face extinction'
By Angus Crawford
The Sabian Mandaeans - one of the oldest religious groups in the world - are facing extinction, according to its leaders.
They claim that Islamic extremists in Iraq are trying to wipe them out through forced conversions, rape and murder.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6412453.stm

Israeli wins Fatah top body seat
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1250492811/17#17

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Baronvonrort on Feb 10^th, 2012 at 3:47pm

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 9^th, 2012 at 7:32pm:

Actually the majority of Persians were not Shi'a in the early days of Islam. It was only later under the Buwayhi and Safawi empires that they became Shi'a and enforced Shi'ism on others.

Falah said the shia are not muslims.

Can you answer the question on whether you think Ibn Sina is a muslim?
If you say he is a muslim then you are contradicting many Islamic scholars who say he was an atheist and kafir.

Is this the empire you are talking about Abu you should check out the dates...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buwayhid_dynasty

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 7:22am

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 10^th, 2012 at 3:47pm:

Falah said the shia are not muslims.

Can you answer the question on whether you think Ibn Sina is a muslim?

I didn't personally get to meet him to be able to say with any certainty. But as far as I know, it is not certain that he was shi'a, and most certainly never proclaimed to be an atheist. This is something post-Renaissance Europeans invented because they couldn't handle that one of their most inspirational figures was a Muslim.

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 10^th, 2012 at 3:47pm:

Is this the empire you are talking about Abu you should check out the dates...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buwayhid_dynasty

Why do I need to check my dates? Where did I state anything about any particular timeframe?

I again assert, that prior to these two empires, most Persians were from mainstream/orthodox Islam, not Shi'a sects.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Baronvonrort on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 11:24am

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 7:22am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 10^th, 2012 at 3:47pm:

Falah said the shia are not muslims.

Can you answer the question on whether you think Ibn Sina is a muslim?

How can Ibn Sina be a muslim when many Islamic scholars declared he was a kafir and atheist?

Can muslims ever get their story straight on anything?

Quote:

Ibn Sina (Avicenna) was accused of beinga kafir and atheist because of his statements about the antiquity of the world,his rejection of the hereafter and other atheist theories.
Scholars that stated Ibn Sina was an atheist include-
Al Ghazali, Ibn Taymiyah,Ibn Al Qayim and Al Dhahbi along with Al Huwaini
Source-http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=87783

Why should we believe you over the 5 Islamic scholars who declared Ibn Sina is an atheist?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 6:48pm

baron,

As far as I'm aware he was never tried for apostasy or for atheism, and was never said to be a Shi'a either. He lived in the Samaanid emirate which was a mainstream orthodox Muslim entity that was nominally part of the Abbasid state.

What people said after his time is irrelevant.

Either way, he never once claimed to be an atheist, and he begun all his books with the basmalah, so you are proved to be nothing but a liar.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Baronvonrort on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 7:52pm

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 13^th, 2012 at 6:48pm:

baron,

As far as I'm aware he was never tried for apostasy or for atheism, and was never said to be a Shi'a either.

What people said after his time is irrelevant.

Either way, he never once claimed to be an atheist,

You would have to be stupid to admit to being an apostate in a place where people are executed for apostasy so why would he open his mouth when it could have him killed.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 5:45am

By your same reasoning he might have been a Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist, Jain, Jedi or Communist, but just never admitted it.

You cannot assert someone adheres to a certain belief merely based on the fact he was accused of it by later generations, and you claim he couldn't admit it if he was.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Baronvonrort on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 7:00pm

We have 5 Islamic scholars saying Ibn Sina was an atheist and kafir so lets check them out.

Al Ghazali was named as one of the scholars who said Ibn Sina was an atheist he wrote a book that was very critical of Ibn Sina it was titled The incoherance of the philosophers

Quote:

The tahafut is organised into twenty chapters in which Al Ghazali attempts to refute Avicenna's (Ibn Sina) doctrines.
Source-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Incoherence_of_the_Philosophers

Al Ghazali is a well known scholar what is your opinion of him Abu/Falah/ Lestat?

I have heard some muslims claiming Sufi are not muslims.

Are the Sufi considered muslim or are they like those deviant twelver shia?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by freediver on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 8:15am

falah wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 1:09pm:

Falah, do you reject the notion of 'no compulsion in religion'? Why do you always point the finger at some other religious book when people criticise your own beliefs? If Islam is wrong about this, finding something similar in the Bible is not going to make it any less wrong, is it?

Quote:

ahh yes, and your atheist brothers, Stalin, Chairman Mao, and Pol Pot, also pretended to be concerned with human rights - even when they killed millions

Falah to, why is it so hard for you to discuss Islam? We are talking about something you seem to personally believe. Are you suggesting that every atheist has to answer for these dictators before you will give a straight answer on what you actually believe?

Quote:

Dress it up any way you want, but they were atheist leaders.

So what is your point Falah? If they were also red-headed leaders, would this render you incapable of giving a straight answer to redheads? Please tell us what people you can give a striaght answer to so that they can pose the questions.

Quote:

For the Twelver Shi-ite sect, found mostly in Iran, it is only the government and leaders who are considered to be outside of Islam. The ordinary person on the street is technically considered muslim unless he utters the heresies of his leaders.

That is kind of Naive of you.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by falah on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 5:37pm

freediver wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 8:15am:

falah wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 1:09pm:

Falah, do you reject the notion of 'no compulsion in religion'?

Nobody should be forced to join any religion. Of course, atheist leaders have shown that they believe nobody should be allowed to have any religion.

freediver wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 8:15am:

Why do you always point the finger at some other religious book when people criticise your own beliefs?

Because it is odd for people living in a Christian country to single out something in Islam which is also found in the Christian Bible.

freediver wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 8:15am:

If Islam is wrong about this, finding something similar in the Bible is not going to make it any less wrong, is it?

Islam is not wrong. There are just some parts of the Bible which are right.

freediver wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 8:15am:

Quote:

ahh yes, and your atheist brothers, Stalin, Chairman Mao, and Pol Pot, also pretended to be concerned with human rights - even when they killed millions

Falah to, why is it so hard for you to discuss Islam?

I believe I have been expending a great deal of time discussing Islam on this board due to the Zionist Islamophobes here writing lies and distortions on Ozpolitic to promote their anti-Islam agenda.

Why is it so difficult for you to discuss the millions murdered, raped, tortured and denied freedom of religion by atheists?

freediver wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 8:15am:

We are talking about something you seem to personally believe.

Yes, I believe in Islam.

freediver wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 8:15am:

Are you suggesting that every atheist has to answer for these dictators before you will give a straight answer on what you actually believe?

You claim to be an atheist, so I would draw your attention to the final conclusion of atheism.

History has shown us that if atheists gain power they will slaughter millions. They will starve millions. They will prevent millions from freedom of religion.

freediver wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 8:15am:

Quote:

That is kind of Naive of you.

It is not my opinion, that is what the scholars of Islam say.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by freediver on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 11:01pm

Quote:

Because it is odd for people living in a Christian country to single out something in Islam which is also found in the Christian Bible.

Perhaps you have not noticed Falah, but our society is equally critical of all religious people who want to stone people to death for apostasy. It's just that Muslims are the only people I know carrying on with this nonsense.

Quote:

Islam is not wrong. There are just some parts of the Bible which are right.

I see. So you are not actually criticising Christianity, you are pointing out those areas where it is as righteous as Islam? You will have to forgive me for assuming you were opposed to killing babies.

Quote:

I believe I have been expending a great deal of time discussing Islam on this board due to the Zionist Islamophobes here writing lies and distortions on Ozpolitic to promote their anti-Islam agenda.

It appears to me that you prefer to discuss other religions and deflect on the criticisims people make of Islam. You turn every discussion of Islam into a childish game of list the attoricities committed by the non-Muslim of choice.

Quote:

Why is it so difficult for you to discuss the millions murdered, raped, tortured and denied freedom of religion by atheists?

It is not hard. I just don't use them to change the topic whenever someone asks me difficult questions about my political ideology. I am not afraid to explain and promote it.

Quote:

You claim to be an atheist

I did not claim that.

Quote:

so I would draw your attention to the final conclusion of atheism

We are kind enough to let Muslims tell us about Islam. Why are you unable to return the courtesy to atheists?

Quote:

History has shown us that if atheists gain power they will slaughter millions.

History has shown us that if people gain power they have the potential to slaughter millions, regardless of political or religious affiliation. This line of reasoning is about as immature as it is possible to get in politics.

Quote:

They will prevent millions from freedom of religion

Can you explain to us what the consequences of Islam's rules for apostasy are for freedom of religion?

Quote:

It is not my opinion, that is what the scholars of Islam say.

Oops. You are right, it is kind of naive of them. It was wrong for me to criticise you for mindlessly accepting what Islamic leaders say, just as it is wrong for you to do the same to Shites. All is forgiven, so long as you repent....

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Baronvonrort on Feb 18^th, 2012 at 8:33am

falah wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 5:37pm:

Of course, atheist leaders have shown that they believe nobody should be allowed to have any religion.

Islam is not wrong.

ahh yes, and your communist brothers, Stalin, Chairman Mao, and Pol Pot, also pretended to be concerned with human rights -
I believe I have been expending a great deal of time discussing Islam on this board due to the Islamophobes

Why is it so difficult for you to discuss the millions murdered, raped, tortured and denied freedom of religion by communists?

You claim to be an atheist, so I would draw your attention to the final conclusion of atheism.

History has shown us that if atheists gain power they will slaughter millions. They will starve millions. They will prevent millions from freedom of religion.

John Cutin-John Gorton-Gough Whitlam-Bob Hawke-Julia Gillard are all atheist Prime Ministers of Australia what religions did they outlaw falah?

If atheists dont allow religion then why did these Prime ministers allow it?

You are delusional falah please look up delusional in a dictionary.

If you bothered to read the Universal declaration of human rights you might find it would violate human rights to outlaw religion.

Why do you lie about this to smear atheists Falah do you realise how delusional you are to even believe this could be possible?

Please read the UDHR and tell me how it would be possible for atheists to violate your right to be delusional.
http://www.un.org/events/humanrights/2007/hrphotos/declaration%20_eng.pdf

Islamophobia is a word that is technically and logically incorrect which epitomises the stupidity of Islam.
Islam is an ideology a set of beliefs,it is a fallacy that one can be phobic of an ideology.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Baronvonrort on Feb 18^th, 2012 at 8:46am

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 14^th, 2012 at 7:00pm:

The tahafut is organised into twenty chapters in which Al Ghazali attempts to refute Avicenna's (Ibn Sina) doctrines.
Source-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Incoherence_of_the_Philosophers

Quote:

Al Ghazali has sometimes been referred to by historians as the single most influential muslim after Prophet Mohammad.Others have citied his movement from science to faith as a detriment to the Islamic scientific progress
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ghazali

Al Ghazali called Ibn Sina a atheist and kafir,kafir leaves no doubt as to his status as a muslim.

Falah-Abu-Lestat, What is your opinion of Al Ghazali?

Are the sufi considered muslims by you?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by falah on Feb 18^th, 2012 at 12:32pm

freediver wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 11:01pm:

Quote:

[quote]Islam is not wrong. There are just some parts of the Bible which are right.

I said some parts of the Bible, not all. Islam is the criterion I use to judge. Islam does not permit the killing of babies - unlike Christianity/Judaism.

freediver wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 11:01pm:

Quote:

[quote]I believe I have been expending a great deal of time discussing Islam on this board due to the Zionist Islamophobes here writing lies and distortions on Ozpolitic to promote their anti-Islam agenda.

We have to look at thing in context. You like to look at thing in isolation, I don't.

freediver wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 11:01pm:

Quote:

[quote]Why is it so difficult for you to discuss the millions murdered, raped, tortured and denied freedom of religion by atheists?

It is not hard. I just don't use them to change the topic whenever someone asks me difficult questions about my political ideology. I am not afraid to explain and promote it.

It is called context. people with your narrow world-view don't understand context.

freediver wrote on Feb 17^th, 2012 at 11:01pm:

Quote:

History has shown us that if atheists gain power they will slaughter millions.

The only people in history who have gotten around to slaughtering millions of people outside of war time are Atheists.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by freediver on Feb 18^th, 2012 at 12:45pm

So you were actually deflecting, and any time someone asks you about Islam you prefer to put the question in context rather than answering it?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by falah on Feb 18^th, 2012 at 10:03pm

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by freediver on Feb 18^th, 2012 at 10:18pm

There is a difference between providing context and simply not answering the question. Turning every discussion of Islamic ideology into a game of who can find the most examples of non-Muslims doing bad things just shows that you recognise that you need to hide something. It is not context, just deflection.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Soren on Feb 22^nd, 2012 at 1:43pm

falah wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 11:08pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 10:34pm:

Planner, schemer - what's the difference? The context makes it clear that the disbelievers were schemeing. Allah out-schemed them.
That's the point.

Is Kevin Rudd a planner or a schemer?
Was Gillard a deceiver or a planner or a schemer?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by falah on Feb 22^nd, 2012 at 4:19pm

Soren wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2012 at 1:43pm:

falah wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 11:08pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 10:34pm:

Planner, schemer - what's the difference? The context makes it clear that the disbelievers were schemeing. Allah out-schemed them.
That's the point.

Is Kevin Rudd a planner or a schemer?
Was Gillard a deceiver or a planner or a schemer?

Did your lot, the Zionist jews, plan or scheme their way into Palestine?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Yadda on Feb 22^nd, 2012 at 8:44pm

falah wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2012 at 4:19pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2012 at 1:43pm:

falah wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 11:08pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 8^th, 2012 at 10:34pm:

Planner, schemer - what's the difference? The context makes it clear that the disbelievers were schemeing. Allah out-schemed them.
That's the point.

Is Kevin Rudd a planner or a schemer?
Was Gillard a deceiver or a planner or a schemer?

Did your lot, the Zionist jews, plan or scheme their way into Palestine?

I thought that the state of Israel was teh consequence of Turkey entering WWI on the side of Germany, and then, the world powers in the wake of WWI, deciding to take its Ottoman Empire territories from Turkey.

One consequence was that a tiny area of land was set aside for the Jewish people to set up a state in their ancient homeland.

IMAGE

Why can't the Jewish people live in their ancient homeland, in peace falah ?

Isn't their enough land in the middle east, for those 'Palestinians' who were displaced.

The fact is that almost all 'Palestinians' ARE ethnic Jordanians.

If is is OK for moslems to take the lands of others, by force.

Why is it wrong, when the original inhabitants of those lands take their land back, by force ?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by falah on Feb 23^rd, 2012 at 9:29am

Yadda wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2012 at 8:44pm:

Why can't the Jewish people live in their ancient homeland, in peace falah ?

For the same reason I cannot live in the British homeland of my ancestors. Or not even in the German homeland of my Anglo-Saxon ancestors.

The Jews left palestine 2000 years ago. If my Anglo Saxon ancestors left Germany 1500 years ago, shouldn't I have a claim to Germany? Or does this logic only apply to Jews?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Yadda on Feb 23^rd, 2012 at 12:38pm

falah wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2012 at 9:29am:

Yadda wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2012 at 8:44pm:

Why can't the Jewish people live in their ancient homeland, in peace falah ?

falah,

That is a false, flawed, argument.

Prior to 1918 [i.e. the end of WWI], the Ottoman territories lawfully belonged to Turkey.

Post 1918, the Ottoman territories did NOT lawfully belong to Turkey.

War has always been a 'reset button', as far as property rights are concerned.

In setting up, and setting aside land for the Jewish state, land was ALSO set aside, and allocated to those Arabs/moslems who would be displaced by the new Jewish state.

The land that was allocated to those Arabs/moslems who would be displaced by the new Jewish state was >> JORDAN <<.

Moslems can go to HELL.

And, they will.

Unless they 'turn', and repent the wickedness in their hearts

+++

Moslems will NOT win this conflict with the Jewish people.

Psalms 2:1
Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

Psalms 83:3
They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.
4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.
5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:
6 The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes;
7 Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre;
8 Assur also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by freediver on Feb 23^rd, 2012 at 2:03pm

falah wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2012 at 9:29am:

Yadda wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2012 at 8:44pm:

Why can't the Jewish people live in their ancient homeland, in peace falah ?

Part of the process of Indigenous land claims under Australian law is establishing an unbroken connection to the land, which can include a spiritual connection. This is not a new concept. So yes you are right, the logic does apply to Jews and their holy land, but not to you and central Europe.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Imperium on Feb 23^rd, 2012 at 2:23pm

im not compatible with it either

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by falah on Feb 23^rd, 2012 at 5:27pm

freediver wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2012 at 2:03pm:

Well in that case we muslims have a spiritual claim to Palestine. The Muslim Prophet Abraham and his Muslim descendants lived there, our Muslim mosques are built there so it must surely belong to Muslims.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by falah on Feb 23^rd, 2012 at 5:30pm

Yadda wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2012 at 12:38pm:

falah,

Moslems can go to HELL.

Yadda, it is Christians and Jews who are the polytheists. The polytheists are the ones who go to Hell.

I challenge you Yadda, let us both ask God Almighty to send to Hell whichever one of us is on the wrong religion. I am certain I am on the one true monotheistic religion. I am so certain that I am prepared to pray to God and ask him for this. Are you certain enough to do the same?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by freediver on Feb 23^rd, 2012 at 6:51pm

Awesome, a Muslim vs Christian pray-off. Does this mean we are getting somewhere?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Yadda on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 12:58pm

freediver wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2012 at 6:51pm:

Awesome, a Muslim vs Christian pray-off. Does this mean we are getting somewhere?

LOL

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Yadda on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 1:09pm

falah wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2012 at 5:30pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2012 at 12:38pm:

falah,

Moslems can go to HELL.

Go for it falah.

I am NOT a moslem.

So let your 'god' curse me.

......because i am NOT a moslem.

Pray to your 'god' falah, do your worst, ........and let your 'god' do his very worst.

MY LIFE, is in the hands of the God of Israel.

I pray to him, and i ask him for his mercy [forgiveness], and for his protection.

+++

Joel 2:32
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Acts 10:34
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by falah on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 8:49pm

Yadda wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 1:09pm:

falah wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2012 at 5:30pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2012 at 12:38pm:

falah,

Moslems can go to HELL.

Obviously you do not comprehend how this works Yadda (and it is not surprising considering the limited intellect you have thus far demonstrated).

I am suggesting we both pray to God Almighty to send to Hell which ever one of us in on the wrong religion.

If you really believe you are on the true religion, you should have no problem making such a prayer.

But in your heart you obviously do not believe that you are on the true religion, so your fear holds you back.

All your claims about Muslims going to Hell are shown to be fake when you do not even believe in your own religion.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Soren on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 9:01pm

falah wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 8:49pm:

I am suggesting we both pray to God Almighty to send to Hell which ever one of us in on the wrong religion.

If you really believe you are on the true religion, you should have no problem making such a prayer.

You are suggesting that you know Allah's mind, cocky.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 10:34pm

No... he's saying put your akhirah where your mouth is.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by freediver on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 11:14pm

falah wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 8:49pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 1:09pm:

falah wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2012 at 5:30pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2012 at 12:38pm:

falah,

Moslems can go to HELL.

Why not pray for forgiveness of the deluded?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by falah on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 8:43am

freediver wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 11:14pm:

Why not pray for forgiveness of the deluded?

How can someone who lies about God be forgiven? Repentance before forgiveness.

But the point is to demonstrate that Yadda does not have conviction in his beliefs.

He makes baseless claims about Muslims going to Hell, while lacking certainty over his own religion.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Soren on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 9:28am

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 10:34pm:

No... he's saying put your akhirah where your mouth is.

Ah, so this is Arabic hour now.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by freediver on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 9:44am

Quote:

How can someone who lies about God be forgiven?

Step 1) Don't stone them to death

Step 2) Get over it

Quote:

But the point is to demonstrate that Yadda does not have conviction in his beliefs.

So only people who wish horrible suffering upon others have conviction?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 11:37am

Soren wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 9:28am:

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 10:34pm:

No... he's saying put your akhirah where your mouth is.

Ah, so this is Arabic hour now.

I'm sure you can google it and work it out. You're not entirely stupid.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Yadda on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 1:14pm

falah wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 8:49pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 1:09pm:

falah wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2012 at 5:30pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2012 at 12:38pm:

falah,

Moslems can go to HELL.

falah,

AGAIN....
I am NOT a moslem.

So your 'god' is ALREADY cursing me, supposedly.

falah,

Your 'god' curses me, because i am NOT a moslem.

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

And yet, God, the God of Israel has always protected, and blessed me.

Although i have done some very foolish things in my life, and been exposed to some very dangerous circumstances in my life [in my past], my God, the God of Israel, has blessed me with a life of true peace.

Why so ?

I like to believe that it is because my God, the God of Israel, knows my heart.

My God, the God of Israel has protected me, and blessed me with happiness and peace.

falah,

Q.
Who are the cursed people ?

A.
MOSLEMS.

Proof ????

Just look at the circumstances of almost all moslem majority nations.

No joy.

No peace.

RATHER, we see;

Injustice.

Corruption.

Violence.

Human poverty.

Oppression.

Tyranny.

= = Moslems murdering moslems.

= = The fruit of 'the peace of ISLAM'.

The truth is that ISLAM produces oppression, corruption, and dead bodies.

Proof ???

Look at any Sharia jurisdiction in this world.

Those societies are ALL, nests of injustice, violence, oppression, corruption and human poverty.

ISLAM = = a curse upon mankind, from God, the God of Israel.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Yadda on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 1:44pm

Yadda wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 1:14pm:

falah,

Q.
Who are the cursed people ?

A.
MOSLEMS.

Proof ????

Just look at the circumstances of almost all moslem majority nations.

No joy.

No peace.

RATHER, we see;

Injustice.

Corruption.

Violence.

Human poverty.

Oppression.

Tyranny.

e.g.
falah,

Tunisia.

Tunisia has had the 'broom' through their nation, to remove the previous corrupt moslem tyrant.

True?

So now, where is the resultant blessing of 'PEACE' from Allah, upon Tunisia ???

Quote:

Tunisia: Security forces clash with "radical Islamists"

Sharia is a package deal, as even Imam Rauf knows. As a total (and totalitarian) system of governance for every aspect of life, there can always be more of it to enforce. Someone will always demand more Sharia, and be willing to kill and topple governments to enforce it, all the more where the declaration of an Islamic state has tied the right to rule to Islamic piety. It is an Achilles' heel built into Sharia itself, and a perpetual source of instability.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/02/tunisia-security-forces-clash-with-radical-islamists.html

There is no peace from ISLAM.

Only perpetual struggle and conflict, against Allah's enemies.

And in all Sharia jurisdictions, those [Allah's enemies], ARE OF A MAN'S OWN HOUSE.

That, is the curse of ISLAM, the curse that is upon those who themselves, choose to embrace ISLAM.

The truth is that ISLAM produces oppression, corruption, and dead bodies.

ISLAM = = a curse upon mankind, from God, the God of Israel.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by falah on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 2:29pm

freediver wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 9:44am:

Quote:

How can someone who lies about God be forgiven?

Step 1) Don't stone them to death

Who mentioned stoning? Your paranoid delusional mind seems to invent a lot of things.

freediver wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 9:44am:

Quote:

But the point is to demonstrate that Yadda does not have conviction in his beliefs.

So only people who wish horrible suffering upon others have conviction?

I don't wish horrible suffering on anybody. I want Yadda to either put his money where mouth is, or else admit that he is unsure about his/her religion.

I knew Yadda would not commit, because Yadda lacks faith in his own religion. This has been proven.

Yadda should now stop lying about Islam because he/she obviously does not even have conviction in his/her own religion.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by falah on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 2:32pm

Yadda wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 1:44pm:

ISLAM = = a curse upon mankind, from God, the God of Israel.[/size]

Yadda must think that Muslims were behind the Holocaust, Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, invasion of iraq, invasion Afghanistan, napalming of Vietnamese villages, and nuking of Hiroshima & Nagasaki.

Yadda be honest with yourself and admit who has been the real curse on humanity.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by freediver on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 2:41pm

Quote:

Who mentioned stoning?

I was talking about not stoning them to death. Stoning people to death is a barrier to forgiving them. It's just not in the spirit of forgiveness.

Quote:

I don't wish horrible suffering on anybody.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Yadda on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 4:02pm

falah wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 2:32pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 1:44pm:

ISLAM = = a curse upon mankind, from God, the God of Israel.

falah,

The Jewish people [the Hebrews, Israel] are not, and were never, perfect individuals.

None of us are.

And they, the Jewish people, are merely on a [spiritual] journey, as are we all.

[Yadda snip's, edits out Bible verses, that mean nothing to moslems ]

falah,

The Jewish people, are 'strangers in a strange land', and they are coming to knowledge.

We are all 'strangers in a strange land', ....and it is within us all to come to knowledge.

THAT IS GOD'S 'OFFER' TO US ALL.

To every individual, who 'turns'.

To every individual, who turns away from unrighteousness.

But what are the moslem people 'coming to' falah ???

Where is ISLAM leading you, and all of your brothers ?

LOL

Allah's paradise ???

LOL

Do you really, really, think so ???

You [Mohammedan's] are being used.

And the wickedness in your heart is so deep and so all encompassing, that you can't even see that you are being used, as a 'device'.

You are blinded, by your hatred, .....of the Jewish people.

If moslems refuse to turn away from ISLAM, they will be 'discarded' [or worse!].

Isaiah 59:20
And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

That offer of redemption, is open to all of mankind, .....it is not an offer made only to the Jewish people.

Because we are, all of us, those 'strangers in a strange land'.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by falah on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 6:36pm

freediver wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 2:41pm:

Quote:

Who mentioned stoning?

I was talking about not stoning them to death. Stoning people to death is a barrier to forgiving them. It's just not in the spirit of forgiveness.

[quote]I don't wish horrible suffering on anybody.

Oops, I meant pray for, not wish. You got me there. Not only do you think this is a good idea yourself, you want Yadda to do it also because you think that is the only way to show he is as good as you.[/quote]

No, I know Yadda won't do it because, deep in his heart, he doesn't really believe in his religion.

The whole point is to expose Yadda as a hypocrite.

I know that Yadda does not believe in his religion, so I know that Yadda will not agree to what I proposed.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Yadda on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 6:53pm

falah wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 6:36pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 2:41pm:

Quote:

Who mentioned stoning?

I was talking about not stoning them to death. Stoning people to death is a barrier to forgiving them. It's just not in the spirit of forgiveness.

[quote]I don't wish horrible suffering on anybody.

No, I know Yadda won't do it because, deep in his heart, he doesn't really believe in his religion.

The whole point is to expose Yadda as a hypocrite.

I know that Yadda does not believe in his religion, so I know that Yadda will not agree to what I proposed.

[/quote]

LOL

falah,

Whereas, i know that YOU do believe in your 'religion'.

Because i know that you hate 'Zionists' and Christians, .....because [ISLAM claims, Koran 9.30] we are 'polytheists'.

And you believe that we deserve to die, because we, 'Zionists' and Christians are resisting Allah's will.

Google;
slaughter the jews

Google;
jews, sons of apes and pigs

You are dumb falah, dumb.

Like all moslems falah, you are 'sick' in the head.

A simple definition of INSANITY;

Quote:

Typically, an unrestrained sane person will act in ways which are harmless to others, and in ways which are creative, and productive [for himself, others, and society].

And typically, and conversely, an unrestrained INSANE person will act in ways which are harmful and destructive to himself, and, or, others around him.

IMO, this act, is an expression of insanity [or 'wickedness'].
And a good example of why we need to separate ourselves, from all those who would justify such acts...

wtc-9-11.jpg

"...typically, an unrestrained INSANE person will act in ways which are harmful and destructive to himself and, or, others around him."

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 7:09pm

Yadda what about the tens of thousands of buildings Jews and Christians have blown up? And the millions of people in them they've murdered? That's an act of desperate retaliation, nothing more, nothing less.

The ironic thing is you seem to be exhibiting the exact things you accuse Muslims of, that everytime a Jew or Christian blows up a building full of people, it's nothing, because they're "doing God's work" but when a Muslim does it, he must be the epitome of wickedness.

You seriously are devoid of the intellect required to compute that aren't you?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Yadda on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 7:28pm

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 7:09pm:

Yadda what about the tens of thousands of buildings Jews and Christians have blown up? And the millions of people in them they've murdered? That's an act of desperate retaliation, nothing more, nothing less.

The ironic thing is you seem to be exhibiting the exact things you accuse Muslims of, ....that everytime a Jew or Christian blows up a building full of people, it's nothing, because they're "doing God's work" but when a Muslim does it, he must be the epitome of wickedness.

You seriously are devoid of the intellect required to compute that aren't you?

Abu,

I have NEVER presented that excuse [the one that you have suggested. well, i can't ever remember doing so.], for the violence that has been visited upon moslems.

I am sorry for the violent deaths of all innocent people.

Even the violent deaths of those innocent people, who 'present' themselves to the world, as moslems.

But are moslem people, innocent people ???

God knows. [ <----- he really does.]

IMAGE...

'It our muslim destiny to rid the world of Jews'

IMAGE...

'Even Allah's creatures testify that Jews are Allah's enemies'

IMAGE...

'Martyrdom is a very beautiful thing'

IMAGE...

God bless Hitler?

IMAGE...

The real holocaust is coming?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Soren on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 7:44pm

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 7:09pm:

They were not shouting 'For Jesus, the Greatest!" Muslims murder for Allah. That, to them, justifies what they do. Sharia sanctifies martyrdom and jihad. Under Muslim sharia law, they are doing good.

Christians and jews do bad things because they are bad people. They do bad things THEIR OWN LAW doesn't permit. They get prosecuted, not glorified.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 9:50pm

Come on Yadda, you know full well you used it as an excuse when I've presented Biblical passages that called on believers to slaughter infidels.

Soren, I'm sure that's of great consolation to the souls and to the families of those people who perished as a result of the warmongering of Jews and Christians. Makes it all right then doesn't it?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Karnal on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 10:14pm

Soren wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 9:28am:

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 24^th, 2012 at 10:34pm:

No... he's saying put your akhirah where your mouth is.

Ah, so this is Arabic hour now.

Sound's like Abu's had a peek at Punch, what.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by freediver on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 10:19pm

Quote:

No, I know Yadda won't do it because, deep in his heart, he doesn't really believe in his religion.

The whole point is to expose Yadda as a hypocrite.

I know that Yadda does not believe in his religion, so I know that Yadda will not agree to what I proposed.

Would you pray for an eternity of horrible suffering upon Yadda?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Yadda on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 11:17pm

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 9:50pm:

Come on Yadda, you know full well you used it as an excuse when I've presented Biblical passages that called on believers to slaughter infidels.

That is not true, Abu.

What you are saying is a blatant misrepresentation.

I have said [i have explained] again, and again, when you have posted, "Biblical passages that called on believers to slaughter infidels", that God only ordered the Hebrews to destroy;
1/ criminal nations, nations rife with injustice and violence, and
2/ covenant breakers among the Hebrews.

And i have explained to you and falah, again, and again, that in OT law, the God of Israel, NEVER, EVER, ordered the Hebrews to destroy people because they were NOT Hebrews, OR, because they were, 'infidels'.

Again;
THE GOD OF ISRAEL COMMANDED THE HEBREWS TO TREAT 'INFIDELS' ['unbelievers'] WITH RESPECT AND WITH JUSTICE.

Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Exodus 22:21
Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him...

Exodus 23:9
Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger...

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.
34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself...

n.b.
.....and thou shalt love him as thyself

Deuteronomy 1:16
And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.

Deuteronomy 10:17-19
For the LORD your God... loveth the stranger, ...Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 24:17
Thou shalt not pervert the judgment of the stranger, nor of the fatherless; nor take a widow's raiment to pledge:
18 But thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt, and the LORD thy God redeemed thee thence: therefore I command thee to do this thing.

Deuteronomy 27:19
Cursed be he that perverteth the judgment of the stranger...

Again;
THE NATIONS THAT HEBREWS DESTROYED, WERE DESTROYED BECAUSE THEIR CULTURE WAS ONE OF CRIMINALITY, VIOLENCE, AND PERVERSION [e.g. killing, 'barbecuing', and eating their own children] - THOSE NATIONS WERE NOT DESTROYED BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT HEBREWS

Leviticus 18:24
Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;)
28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.
29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.

Leviticus 20:22
Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out.
23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

Deuteronomy 18:9
When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.

1 Kings 14:24
And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.

2 Kings 16:3
But he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, yea, and made his son to pass through the fire, according to the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out from before the children of Israel.

2 Kings 21:2
And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, after the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.

2 Chronicles 28:3
Moreover he burnt incense in the valley of the son of Hinnom, and burnt his children in the fire, after the abominations of the heathen whom the LORD had cast out before the children of Israel.

2 Chronicles 33:2
But did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, like unto the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD had cast out before the children of Israel.

+++

And Abu, i will ask you too [like i accused falah], when are you going to stop continually, repeatedly, and intentionally, slandering the God of Israel, and misrepresenting HIS LAW ?

You and falah, are accusing the God of Israel of authorising the Hebrews to kill people, BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT 'BELIEVERS'.

And you and falah KNOW, that that accusation and assertion is a lie, and a misrepresentation of the facts.

e.g.
falah......

Quote:

The Bible Tells Christians and Jews to Murder non-Believers!

Falah: Jews are 'parasites'
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1327483631/135#135

And i warn you, that if you continue with that premeditated blasphemy, AGAINST GOD HIMSELF, against his truth, then God will not forgive you.

Matthew 12:30
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

The Holy Ghost, and 'the spirit of truth', are the same.

Those who intentionally misrepresent God's spirit, can expect only God's wrath.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Soren on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 9:44am

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 9:50pm:

Soren, I'm sure that's of great consolation to the souls and to the families of those people who perished as a result of the warmongering of Jews and Christians. Makes it all right then doesn't it?

It doesn't reverse the bad things but it is a damn sight better to know that the wrongdoers are prosecuted than to see them glorified, as are Muslim terrorists.

Every single military action by the West against Muslims has been in response to Muslim aggression, ever since the Arab hordes burst out of Araby in the 7th century. No exception.

So what you call 'warmongering of Jews and Christians' is simple self-defence. When it's effective, you cry foul. But when Islam is spread successfully by the sword, you call that natural and Allah's will.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 12:37pm

Let's take stock of the situation, shall we.

Jewish & Christian governments and militiaries have carried out the vast bulk of these killings, and the majority of them remain in their positions and many are considered war heroes for those actions by their countries.

On the other side of the coin, we have a few small scattered groups of Islamic resistance fighters, who've responded to those actions, and who have absolutely no recognition of validity from any government or militiary the world over.

Doesn't sound at all like the picture you've painted.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by freediver on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 12:39pm

Abu all you have pointed out is that the Muslim militants keep losing so badly that there are very few of them left.

Should we also conclude that during the period when the Caliphate was winning it was because Muslims were doing the wrong thing? Or do your criticisms only apply to non-Muslims?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 12:51pm

Yadda wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 11:17pm:

What you are saying is a blatant misrepresentation.

I have said [i have explained] again, and again, when you have posted, "Biblical passages that called on believers to slaughter infidels", that God only ordered the Hebrews to destroy;
1/ criminal nations, nations rife with injustice and violence, and
2/ covenant breakers among the Hebrews.

Sorry, my mistake, let me try to represent you more accurately.

Your book tells you that god commanded the believers to murder innocent little children, because the adults of their nation were criminals who committed violence and injustice. Better?

This is one of the things about Christianity I simply can never fathom. According to your doctrines, all pre-Christ people were just like lifeless dummies, who had no souls, and God just played with them like toys. If he commanded his people to slaughter their little babies, it's ok, because it was Old Covenant times, if he told them to execute a child who disrespected their parents, it's ok because it was OC times as well, if he told the rapist to marry his victim and never divorce her, it's ok because it was OC times.

It's as if those people had absolutely no worth or value as human beings at all, they were merely actors in a story to make Christians feel all warm and fuzzy thousands of years later.

And all throughout Christian & Jewish history, these stories have been used to justify horrific acts of war and plunder. From the various Crusades and Inquisitions to Rumsfeld's biblically inscribed war reports. Yet still you thrust your fingers into your ears and refuse to open your heart to the truth.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 12:55pm

freediver wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 12:39pm:

Abu all you have pointed out is that the Muslim militants keep losing so badly that there are very few of them left.

Yeh that's why the worlds only superpower is getting themselves whipped by a small resistance movement in Afghanistan. Which according to the US's own reports only consisted of a few thousand members... remember that one do we?

freediver wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 12:39pm:

Should we also conclude that during the period when the Caliphate was winning it was because Muslims were doing the wrong thing? Or do your criticisms only apply to non-Muslims?

Read the history and find out.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Soren on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 7:52pm

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 12:55pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 12:39pm:

Abu all you have pointed out is that the Muslim militants keep losing so badly that there are very few of them left.

Yes, indeed, we remember that one.

What is happening in Afghanistan is that the superpower is fighting fairly - it is not targeting civilians but is trying to kill only enemy who dress like civilians...

If the West fought like Muslims, Afghanistan would now have wet T-shirt competitions in the sports bars of every village. That is to say, all resistance and then some would have been wiped out within two weeks and imperial order restored for generation to come.

The only reason the mujahadeen are alive is because the people of the west - ie people like me - wouldn't accept decisive military action - rather than because decisive military action is not possible.
An ultimatum, followed by annihilation would be a lot easier. But that would be fighting like Muslims in the Hindu Kush, so we'd rather appeal to their reason. A heavy price to pay, but still...

The point I made remains central in all of this: every militarty action by the West against Muslim has been a response to Muslim agression. Every single one. Islam is aggressive, belligerent, it invades and conquers whenever it can. It is not a religion of peace - except of peace imposed by Muslims.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 27^th, 2012 at 6:01am

Soren wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 7:52pm:

Yeh right... I see you aren't too fond of the news.

Soren wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 7:52pm:

If the West fought like Muslims, Afghanistan would now have wet T-shirt competitions in the sports bars of every village. That is to say, all resistance and then some would have been wiped out within two weeks and imperial order restored for generation to come.

The only reason the mujahadeen are alive is because the people of the west - ie people like me - wouldn't accept decisive military action - rather than because decisive military action is not possible.
An ultimatum, followed by annihilation would be a lot easier. But that would be fighting like Muslims in the Hindu Kush, so we'd rather appeal to their reason. A heavy price to pay, but still...

Is that why the previous superpower copped a spanking there too?

Soren wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 7:52pm:

The point I made remains central in all of this: every militarty action by the West against Muslim has been a response to Muslim agression. Every single one. Islam is aggressive, belligerent, it invades and conquers whenever it can. It is not a religion of peace - except of peace imposed by Muslims.

Soren, The West has been engaged in constant military aggressions against the Muslim world since at least the early 19th. century. Muslims had long given up military expansionism by this time and were already in a state of decline and contraction. Every single aggression by Muslims you can point to, can be linked to a whole series of Western aggressions, which it was a response to. Muslims today usually suffer these aggressions in silence for extended periods of time, until someone says "enough is enough" and finally lashes out and responds. You refuse to connect the dots, because you find it outrageous that Muslims might for instance be retaliating for the inhumanities suffered in Palestine and elsewhere. How dare they respond the Zionist occupation right?

Btw, here's a very interesting interview between an American current affairs host and a Taliban spokesman, just after the U.S lobbed several cruise missiles into their country:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBAEk2dBm4E&feature=plcp&context=C319945fUDOEgsToPDskKikW643LFDF13RSy5rMhLa
Part1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBhhI7m47ZE&feature=plcp&context=C3972623UDOEgsToPDskI4TJduxxH3jDn6ZJ8V8ahe
Part2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AndspJslg6A&feature=plcp&context=C3a5bc50UDOEgsToPDskJ77i8tSlYONWbPWt3paxHz
Part3

As we can see the aggressor refuses to take any responsibility for their despicable action of bombing innocent Afghans, and the story continues today, whilst the Taliban were quite willing to negotiate and bring about a resolution to the issue. The same thing happened after 9/11, a clear refusal to solve the issues peacefully, just a war-hungry desire to bomb, kill and maim civilians.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Soren on Feb 27^th, 2012 at 10:00am

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 27^th, 2012 at 6:01am:

the inhumanities suffered in Palestine and elsewhere

The luckiest Palestinians are the ones living in Israel.

The ones in Muslim countries are indeed treated like dirt by their... er... brothers. It is far easier for a palestinian to become a subject of her Britannic majesty in Britain, Canada or Australia than to become a subject of the kings of Jordan or Araby or any of the Muslim republics.

SO the inhumanities are at the hands of their fellow Muslims.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Lestat on Feb 27^th, 2012 at 10:30am

Soren wrote on Feb 27^th, 2012 at 10:00am:

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 27^th, 2012 at 6:01am:

the inhumanities suffered in Palestine and elsewhere

The luckiest Palestinians are the ones living in Israel.

haha...yeah right, tell that to the hundreds that have had their homes bulldozed in East Jerusalem.

Then again, compared to those murdered in Gaza...I guess they are 'lucky' in comparison.

Right Soreass?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 27^th, 2012 at 5:58pm

Soren wrote on Feb 27^th, 2012 at 10:00am:

The ones in Muslim countries are indeed treated like dirt by their... er... brothers. It is far easier for a palestinian to become a subject of her Britannic majesty in Britain, Canada or Australia than to become a subject of the kings of Jordan or Araby or any of the Muslim republics.

SO the inhumanities are at the hands of their fellow Muslims.

You're either a) not too bright or b) attempting to deny the glaringly obvious fact that those regimes are all puppets of the West. Jordan and Saudi especially are two of the most subservient Western slavedogs. So we'll see how things pan out when the Muslims finally turf them out and they go the way of Mubarak, Ben Ali and all the other Western installed vermin.

here's a hint of how things are panning out.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Soren on Feb 27^th, 2012 at 7:50pm

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 27^th, 2012 at 5:58pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 27^th, 2012 at 10:00am:

Well, if they are western puppets, they would yield to the western pressure to regularise their palestinian populations and treat them decently.

Their mistreatment of palestinians in IN DEFIANCE of any western pressure. They mistreat them because it is in their interest to mistreat them, not in the west's interest.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Yadda on Feb 28^th, 2012 at 1:23am

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 26^th, 2012 at 12:51pm:

Yadda wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 11:17pm:

Matthew 12:30
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Still blaspheming against God, against his authority.

Still in rebellion, against God's authority.

You would love any vicious 'crocodile', wouldn't you Abu ?

So long as it was a vicious moslem crocodile.

Abu,

God is the God of the spirits of all flesh....our God, is the LORD of hosts, the Holy One of Israel.

We are, that is, our bodies are the 'hosts'.

And he is >> God <<, the creator of man, and the owner of the spirit within us.

God created us, and God 'owns' us.

Do you have a problem with that Abu ?

Because you seem to love authority, so long as it is Mohammed's revealed authority.

And you seem to be prepared to tolerate teh harshness of 'justice', so long as it is Mohammed's revealed Sharia 'justice'.

But submit your spirit to a 'cruel' God, a God of judgement ?

No way!

Abu,

God said, that is, God communicated to us, that;

Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine;

Psalms 33:1
Rejoice in the LORD, O ye righteous: for praise is comely for the upright.
2 Praise the LORD with harp: sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings.
3 Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.
4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.
5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

Psalms 146:8
The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous:

Who are the righteous Abu ?

OH YES, OF COURSE.....
/sarc off
"Ye [moslems] are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors."
Koran 3.110

Again, who are the righteous, and 'the best of peoples' Abu ?

e.g.
Moslems ?

Moslems, those who 'sanctify' murdering a woman, because she was raped ?

Because that is what is Sharia law mandates.

Google;
rape victim, immoral behaviour sharia

THE LAW OF THE GOD OF ISRAEL.....

Deuteronomy 25:1
If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.

Q.
Deuteronomy 4:7
For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for?
8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

A.
NOT THE NATION OF ISLAM !

Abu,

You claim that you are a moslem, and therefore, you claim that you are a 'submitter'.

But your own words reveal that you are in rebellion against God's authority, and therefore, that you are in reality, a kuffar, and an infidel.

Quote:

You who embrace ISLAM, your own lies and deception, have become a witness against you, before God......

"kuffar" = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."

+++

The other day, falah rebuked me.....

falah said...

Quote:

How can someone who lies about God be forgiven? Repentance before forgiveness.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1327799946/62#62

Exactly so, i say.

Matthew 12:37
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Abu,

'How can someone who lies about God be forgiven?'

By our own words and judgements [choices] everyone will be judged.

Matthew 12:30
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 28^th, 2012 at 5:32am

Soren wrote on Feb 27^th, 2012 at 7:50pm:

Yeh because what the West really wants is decent treatment of Palestinians, and them to feel solidarity with their fellow Muslims & Arabs.

Honestly soren don't you feel like an idiot writing this stuff?

Let me guess you also believe the West supports the Arab spring too right? And you actually believe they were never friendly with Qadhafi and Assad... right?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by freediver on Feb 28^th, 2012 at 8:09am

Muslims should be considered as individuals. The kuffar on the other hand are a homogenous block like the borg. If one of them supports something, they all do.

Right Abu?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Soren on Feb 28^th, 2012 at 12:33pm

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 28^th, 2012 at 5:32am:

Soren wrote on Feb 27^th, 2012 at 7:50pm:

Complete nonsense.
The Palsestinians have had many opportunities to form a state.
The Palestinians are receiving massive aid from the West. They would have even more aid if they formed a functioning state (for the first time in history), including aid from Israel.
Individual Palestinians are treated better in the West and in Israel than in any of the Arab countries.
So the evidence is tere for all to see.

The only stumbling block - The Arabs, Palestinians or otherwise, do not recognise Israel's right to exist within secure borders. That is the single issue that causes all the trouble.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 8:26am

falah wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 1:09pm:

Case closed. :)

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by freediver on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 8:32am

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 8:26am:

falah wrote on Feb 6^th, 2012 at 1:09pm:

Case closed. :)

Q: Who has the right to pass judgement on apostates, gays etc and stone them to death?

A: Muslims.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 8:36am

Yadda wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 7:28pm:

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 25^th, 2012 at 7:09pm:

Yadda what about the tens of thousands of buildings Jews and Christians have blown up? And the millions of people in them they've murdered? That's an act of desperate retaliation, nothing more, nothing less.

The ironic thing is you seem to be exhibiting the exact things you accuse Muslims of, ....that everytime a Jew or Christian blows up a building full of people, it's nothing, because they're "doing God's work" but when a Muslim does it, he must be the epitome of wickedness.

You seriously are devoid of the intellect required to compute that aren't you?

A picture truely does say a thousand words yadda.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 8:40am

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 27^th, 2012 at 5:58pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 27^th, 2012 at 10:00am:

They obviously didn't get enough pain the last four attempts at wiping Israel off the map.
Not too bright this lot.
How are they going to feel the next time when Israel has the Egyptians tanks brigades glowing in the dark?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by abu_rashid on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 11:58pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 8:40am:

Last four attempts? Are you referring to the staged "wars" in which Western-led Arab puppet regimes put on a facade in order to convince their people Israel was invincable and therefore excuse them from opposing her?

You're only deluding yourself if you honestly believe any of those conflicts were about what we're told they were about. The regimes who "fought" in those wars had armies commanded by British officers/spies, and each and every one of those puppet leaders was exposed as agents of the West. So in reality the only war was a war of information against the populaces of the Muslim countries.

As I said we'll see how things pan out. When the Zionists face an actual Islamic army, they'll flee back to their countries of origin in Europe/U.S.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by freediver on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 9:09am

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 11:58pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 8:40am:

This shows remarkable parallels to the German situation between the two world wars. They were bitter about losing the first one and blamed everyone who was involved in the surrenders etc. Abu has just taken it to another level of absurdity. Perhaps that is what it takes for a Muslim to wrap his head around the geopolitical impotence of Muslims in the middle east. If we wanted to be mean about it, we could set up a maccas on that rock thing in Mecca they all pray too with a rollercoaster around the outside.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by falah on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 10:48am

Jewish Hate In Occupied Palestine

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Soren on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 2:20pm

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 11:58pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 8:40am:

And from where might that actual Islamic army come from?
Iran? no, they are shia.
Egypt? No, they are living on $2 a day
Syria? Lybia? Er... not soon.
Jordan? Saudi Arabia? Turkey? Pakistan?

France?? :D

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Yadda on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 3:58pm

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 11:58pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2012 at 8:40am:

Last four attempts? Are you referring to the staged "wars" in which Western-led Arab puppet regimes put on a facade in order to convince their people Israel was invincable and therefore excuse them from opposing her?

You're only deluding yourself if you honestly believe any of those conflicts were about what we're told they were about. The regimes who "fought" in those wars had armies commanded by British officers/spies, and each and every one of those puppet leaders was exposed as agents of the West. So in reality the only war was a war of information against the populaces of the Muslim countries.

As I said we'll see how things pan out. When the Zionists face an actual Islamic army, they'll flee back to their countries of origin in Europe/U.S.

"The regimes who "fought" in those wars had armies commanded ~~by British officers/spies~~, and each and every one of those puppet leaders was exposed as agents of the West."

You are wrong Abu.

As a good moslem, i thought that you would have known better !

They were all clearly Mossad agents, Jooos, ....and NOT British spies.
/sarc off

LOL

So, all past 'Arab' wars to destroy Israel, all failed, because the Arab armies weren't really trying ???

LOL

OR, all past 'Arab' wars to destroy Israel, all failed, because the Arab armies were ALL white-anted, and weakened by an anti-ISLAMIC/anti-Arab conspiracy ???

LOL

Every failing of ISLAM/moslems, can always be laid at the feet of others.

OR, to some conspiracy, against the 'righteous' moslems.

LOL

Abu,

In every instance where ISLAM has a primary cultural influence upon a society of people, and in those instances where moslems are in authority in a society, and are behaving badly, violently, corruptly, those persons [i.e. moslems], always refuse to accept responsibility for the consequences of their own governance/choices.

Within moslem societies [i.e. where ISLAM has a primary cultural influence], when everything turns to sh!t for them, moslems always [as a society] refuse to accept responsibility for their own poor [violent, corrupt] governance, of their own political affairs.

Q.
Why so?

A.
Because those societies and people are spiritually corrupted, are being guided by something other than God.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by abu_rashid on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 5:01pm

freediver wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 9:09am:

fd, I think it's become blatantly clear over the decades that the Arab rulers were all installed puppets. And nobody can deny that Jordan, Egypt etc. had "armies" that were closely trained by and then actually led by the British during the so called wars. These are the facts. The facts also show us that these puppet rulers were engaged in secret relations with Israel, whilst outwardly they were proclaiming war against her. All well documented.

You can keep denying it all you like, but that's clearly what the history points to.

freediver wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 9:09am:

If we wanted to be mean about it, we could set up a maccas on that rock thing in Mecca they all pray too with a rollercoaster around the outside.

You'd be surprised just how much of a reality this already is. The Ka'abah is directly surrounded by fast food restaurants and other shops and massive hotels with plazas and food courts. You can actually pray at the Ka'abah whilst standing in the line to buy your KFC, if the call for prayer happens to arrive.

This example was pretty stupid though, as it doesn't really mean much.

Perhaps you meant destroy the Ka'abah? Surely you've got enough brains to realise doing so would be suicide for the West?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by freediver on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 5:17pm

Quote:

The facts also show us that these puppet rulers were engaged in secret relations with Israel, whilst outwardly they were proclaiming war against her. All well documented.

You mean you read it on an internet forum and it explained the Arab loss without resorting to Arab stupidity, so it must be true?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by abu_rashid on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 5:29pm

freediver wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 5:17pm:

You mean you read it on an internet forum and it explained the Arab loss without resorting to Arab stupidity, so it must be true?

fd this stuff is pretty widely known, I'm surprised you haven't at least done your basic homework before commenting.

Quote:

Hussein's rule was marred with secret collaboration with Israel and the United States, which often adversely affected the surrounding Arab States and peoples, including the Palestinians. Secret meetings between King Hussein and Israeli foreign ministers Abba Eban and Golda Meir began on or before 1963. At first the meetings took place in London at the home of Dr. Emanuel Herbert, King Hussein's physician.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussein_of_Jordan

For over 10 years (probably from the beginning actually) he was in collaboration with those he claimed publicly (at home anyway) to be fighting a war against.

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by freediver on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 5:57pm

Quote:

King Hussein sought to understand Israel's position and preferred dialogue to the futility of war with its many dangers.

Sounds like a reasonable man to me. I can see why he wanted to keep that secret from the world's Muslims though.

So bascially, despite being f*cked sideways every time they try to throw their weight around, the worlds Muslims should rush into battle again, this time with the promise of glorious victory rather than more abject suffering?

Title: Re: Islam vs Universal Declaration of human rights
Post by Soren on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 7:30pm

freediver wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2012 at 5:57pm:

Quote:

King Hussein sought to understand Israel's position and preferred dialogue to the futility of war with its many dangers.

Yes. They are not in it for victory...

A hunter spots a grizzly bear 1,000 yards away, but he can't get any closer so he aims his rifle and pulls the trigger. He can see he's hit the bear, so he sets off after it. When he finally catches up to the bear, the bear is clutching his shoulder and says, "Was it you who shot me?"

The hunter says, "Yes."

The bear says, "You need to be taught a lesson." The bear strips off the hunter's clothes, bends him over, and has his way with him.

Several minutes later the hunter struggles to his feet, pulls himself together, and vows to find that bear. He searches through the woods, up hill and dale, and then he spots it 500 yards away, aims his rifle, pulls the trigger, and sets off after it. When he catches up to the bear, the bear says, "Did you shoot me again?"

The hunter, trembling, says, "Yes."

The bear says, "Well, maybe this'll teach you," whereupon it grabs up the hunter, rips off his already tattered clothing, throws him violently to the ground, and really rips him a new one.

The hunter eventually gets to his feet, naked and dazed, and he decides he's going after the bear one more time. He trips through dense underbrush, he trudges through soupy swamps, and he treks across vast valleys, and finally he finds the bear only a hundred yards away, across a small opening. He takes careful aim, holds his breath, and pulls the trigger.

The hunter, already exhausted, sprints up to the bear.

The bear says, "Did you shoot me AGAIN?"

The hunter says, "Yep."

So the bear says, "You didn't really come here to hunt, did you?"