A thread to discuss how peace can ever be brought to the 'Holy land'.

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Grey -moved from Beyond ABC.

Earle Qaeda

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 Obama's Palestine Plan
May 20th, 2011, 6:36pm   Okay, how do we all feel about the lad's two state idea? A good start says I.  
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Grey

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 Re: Obama's Palestine Plan
Reply #1 - May 20th, 2011, 6:53pm   He's probably gone as far as he politically can. I've never been a fan of a two state solution. It has after all been a failed policy for over 60 years. A Palestinian state would be an instant failed state with no water and  no money. Hard liners like Liebermann would drive Israels Arabs into it to get rid of the 'womb bomb'. Rockets would fly over the wall, situation normal.

The only solution that MIGHT produce peace in the long term is a multi-state federal system with Jerusalem as a capital territory.  
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The strategic adversary is fascism... the fascism in us all, in our heads and in our everyday behavior, the fascism that causes us to love power, & desire the very thing that dominates and exploits us    IP Logged

Earle Qaeda

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 Re: Obama's Palestine Plan
Reply #2 - May 21st, 2011, 5:24am   A multi-state federal system? Are you talking something akin to our glorious commonwealth?  I can't see that working. It would just be a continuation of the subjugation by Israel that we've seen for the last several decades. On the face of it the two state concept at least allows for Palestinian self determination & (hopefully) would grant them international status. Boy, just imagine if they were admitted to NATO!

Perhaps those rockets would continue but I'd like to think that with a proper grounding in the internatinal community the more moderate Palestinian influences would rise to the top. Given self determination  & the opportunity for economic development their focus could be broader than just hating Israel. Both parties might end up being just being neighbours - bad neighbours perhaps. But better that than captor & prisoner.

You're right about li'l Lieberman. And he's supposed to be a democrat! Anyway, it's a nice try by Obama but there is such a sizeable Israel lobby in the US  I doubt he will achieve much with it.  
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 Re: Obama's Palestine Plan
Reply #3 - Today at 12:22am   Well -  Mr Netanyahu (?)  whom, it seems to me, was always going to be in this position at this time,  certainly told Obama the facts.!!

The reported 'Obama' stare - which was pretty evident in the televised interview between them, that I saw,  just didn't exist for Mr Netanyahu.

His manner was that , perhaps, of someone having to explain the obvious.

Obama's 'Plan' shows a worrying naivete on the part of the US Pres. IMO.    
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 Re: Obama's Palestine Plan
Reply #4 - Today at 6:57am   jalane33 wrote on Today at 12:22am:
Obama's 'Plan' shows a worrying naivete on the part of the US Pres. IMO.  
Where else but at the last internationally agreed position can you restart just negotiations?

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Earle Qaeda

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 Re: Obama's Palestine Plan
Reply #5 - Today at 7:40am   jalane33 wrote on Today at 12:22am:
Well -  Mr Netanyahu...

His manner was that , perhaps, of someone having to explain the obvious.
 

In other words, his manner was that perhaps of someone who is unprepared  & totally unwilling to accept any "solution" that deviates from the tried  & trusted jackboot approach of the last 60 years.

Grey wrote on May 23^rd, 2011 at 7:49am:

A thread to discuss how peace can ever be brought to the 'Holy land'.

Destroy ISLAM.



How ?

ISLAM is a lie, and truth is killing it.

We must never shrink from scrutinising and criticising the evil which ISLAM clearly is, and which ISLAM promotes.


+++


ISLAM IS A DEATH CULT....

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260


"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:..."
Koran 9.111




IMAGES, of what ISLAM promotes in its adherents, the world over....
Arab world in revolt, how will the West fare
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1296163674/58#58

Great, just what the middle east needs, a welfare state dependant upon others.

Yadda wrote on May 23^rd, 2011 at 8:26am:

Grey wrote on May 23rd, 2011 at 7:49am: A thread to discuss how peace can ever be brought to the 'Holy land'. Destroy ISLAM. How ? ISLAM is a lie, and truth is killing it. We must never shrink from scrutinising and criticising the evil which ISLAM clearly is, and which ISLAM promotes. +++ ISLAM IS A DEATH CULT.... "...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him." hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260 "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:..." Koran 9.111 IMAGES, of what ISLAM promotes in its adherents, the world over.... Arab world in revolt, how will the West fare http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1296163674/58#58

No, Sorry Yadda, I disagree with the idea of banning or destroying ANY religion...

Perhaps education is an answer, or reducing the influence religion has on it's adherents..
But bans or destruction leads to a very dark place...and should be avoided at all costs.....the 'Thought Police' concept is doubleplus ungood...

gizmo_2655 wrote on May 23^rd, 2011 at 1:18pm:

Yadda wrote on May 23rd, 2011 at 8:26am: Grey wrote on May 23rd, 2011 at 7:49am: A thread to discuss how peace can ever be brought to the 'Holy land'. Destroy ISLAM. How ? ISLAM is a lie, and truth is killing it. We must never shrink from scrutinising and criticising the evil which ISLAM clearly is, and which ISLAM promotes. +++ ISLAM IS A DEATH CULT.... "...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him." hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260 "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:..." Koran 9.111 IMAGES, of what ISLAM promotes in its adherents, the world over.... Arab world in revolt, how will the West fare http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1296163674/58#58 No, Sorry Yadda, I disagree with the idea of banning or destroying ANY religion... Perhaps education is an answer, or reducing the influence religion has on it's adherents.. But bans or destruction leads to a very dark place...and should be avoided at all costs.....the 'Thought Police' concept is doubleplus ungood...

gizmo,

I agree with you, 90 %.

Please note my suggested: "How ?" above, of how ISLAM should be destroyed.

e.g.
Some people on this forum have suggested that the Koran should be banned.

I know that Sprint has previously made that suggestion in this forum.

I myself, totally DIS-agree, with such a path.

IMO, only by examining the Koran and Hadith [ISLAM's foundation religious texts], by being informed, can we understand what ISLAM truly is.



BUT [i suspect that you will strongly disagree with me here....], i would like to see those who self declare, as being moslems, removed [expelled] from Australia.

I do believe, that if we [Australians], have informed ourselves, and understand what ISLAM truly is, that [from my own point of view, regarding ISLAM] each of us has a moral responsibility to seek to separate ourselves, from moslems/ISLAM.

Why so ?

Firstly, because i could not in good conscience, be a moslem.

Knowing what i know about ISLAM [today], if i had been born into a moslem family, and if as i grew up, i subsequently informed myself about what my faith promoted, i would be ashamed to remain a moslem.

I would abandon ISLAM.

And it puzzles me, as to why moslems [who must know what ISLAM promotes], will not abandon it ???

I firmly believe that the fate of those,
1/ who choose to refuse to be informed [to inform themselves] about what ISLAM promotes, AND,
2/ those who choose to refuse to separate themselves from those, who self-declare "I am a moslem.", will in the 'hereafter', bear the consequences of that choice.

But i know that you, and many others, do not believe in a 'hereafter'.

Have a nice life.



+++


Romans 2:5
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6  Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7  To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8  But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9  Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10  But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Yadda wrote on May 23^rd, 2011 at 8:26am:

Grey wrote on May 23rd, 2011 at 7:49am: A thread to discuss how peace can ever be brought to the 'Holy land'. Destroy ISLAM. How ? ISLAM is a lie, and truth is killing it. We must never shrink from scrutinising and criticising the evil which ISLAM clearly is, and which ISLAM promotes. +++ ISLAM IS A DEATH CULT.... "...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him." hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260 Sad yadda very sad. "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:..." Koran 9.111 IMAGES, of what ISLAM promotes in its adherents, the world over.... Arab world in revolt, how will the West fare http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1296163674/58#58

Both sides in this conflict are completely wrong. Do you think for one minute that if the Israel's thought they could get away with it they would put all the palestinian's in camps and take complete control. Sad but true.
The middle east is beginning to change all on its own, Israel should be careful or they will be on the outside of the next big wave of change.

Palestinians didn't start out as Islamists, many were Christians. I/P is not about religion it's about politics.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/rabbinicalcourts/crc/documents/callfromcrc.pdf

JewsNotZionists - Neuburger

    For over 60 years I have fought Zionism, as did my father before me, and I am therefore quite familiar with it. For those who have been in this fight for only the last ten or twenty years, what I have to say may be surprising or even shocking. Nevertheless these matters must be stated clearly and openly, because unless the disease of Zionism is diagnosed accurately, it cannot be cured. Too long have those opposed to Zionism engaged in daydreaming and wishful thinking. In order to recognize Zionism for what it is, one has to know about Judaism, about Zionism -- the opposite and negation of Judaism, and about Jewish history. In the time allotted to me, I am not going to talk about the actions of the Zionists; they will be adequately dealt with by others. As a Jew, I plan to discuss Zionism, which is rebellion against G-d and treason to the Jewish people.


http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/differencejudzion.html

"and after the Moslems do to the French,
what the Germans did to the Jews"

"the Jewish 'leader' of power will say unto his Moslem 'people' of breeding 'Now lets unite as One and get those bloody Italians!'"

...after all this, such MILITARY actions will betray their attempts at Religion in the Middle-Eastern Region. Thus North America and Australia (with some help from South America ...but definately not from the Occidental region) will usher in the Golden Age and the True Religion of the Middle-East will be uncovered beyond the tainted touch of the African influenced Mohommedism, the Asian influenced Judaism and the European influenced Christianity.


"My precious" ;)

yes israel stole palestine by proxy through the authority

of the UN

this is fact

namaste

forgive these zionists

In order to recognize Zionism for what it is, one has to know about Judaism, about Zionism -- the opposite and negation of Judaism, and about Jewish history.

_________________

http://www.israelect.com/Come-and-Hear/editor/br_3.html


Blood Ritual
3: Human Sacrifice, the Talmud, and the Moloch Problem

No one today seriously suggests present-day Jews sacrifice children to Moloch. Moloch (sometimes spelled "Molech") was an Old Testament god whom the Hebrews worshipped from time to time, and to whom they sacrificed their children. The Babylonian Talmud, however, still permits Jews to sacrifice children to Moloch — under certain conditions.
LORD God Accepts Human Sacrifice
First, let's get perspective. Some mistakenly believe human sacrifice is forbidden in the Old Testament. Certainly, some of the prophets railed against it. But in at least one book, LORD God accepts human sacrifice. And in another book, LORD God is appeased by human sacrifice.
In the following account from the Book of Judges, the Israelite warrior Jephthah is about to set off to make war on the Ammonites. In payment for victory, Jephthah promises LORD God he will sacrifice the first "whatsoever" that comes from his house to greet him upon his return. Unless Jephthah keeps oxen, sheep, goats, or chickens in his living room, he must expect the promised victim will be a human being. Notice that Jephthah does not promise to sacrifice "an ox" or "a goat," etc. (7)



http://www.omegatimes.com/article.php?intid=1215



http://www.gaychristian101.com/Molech.html

_____________

i do not judge

i observe the his/her story of ancient worshipping this fire god moloch/

molech

forgive these blood drinking child sacrificing freemasons

these will go unto that which they do invoke

namaste

Grey wrote on May 23^rd, 2011 at 7:49am:

A thread to discuss how peace can ever be brought to the 'Holy land'.

Eliminate Hamas and their terrorist associates who are sworn to Israel's destruction at all costs.
This will need to happen, because Israel will have no interest in any negotiations whatsoever with terrorists whilst rockets land in Sderot residential areas.
The terrorists still hold SGT Gilat hostage after 4+ years.
Snipers still shoot at Israeli civilians, and mortar rounds are routinely fired into Israel.
If these terrorists lay down their arms, there will be peace.
If Israel lays down it's arms, there will be no more Israel.
Appeasement has a zero success score any where or any time in history in the world, and Israel is not stupid enough to believe they will cheat history of it's perfect record.
Israel will need to bury it's enemies, and then there will be peace.

nairbe wrote on May 23^rd, 2011 at 8:33pm:

Quote: A thread to discuss how peace can ever be brought to the 'Holy land'. Both sides in this conflict are completely wrong. Do you think for one minute that if the Israel's thought they could get away with it they would put all the palestinian's in camps and take complete control. Sad but true.

I assume you mean to say, the Israelis would would put all the 'Palestinians' in camps ?

IMO, the Israelis should annex Judea, Samaria and Gaza.

And expel their wicked, wicked, enemies.

Not one ISLAMIST should be allowed to set foot within Israel proper.

The ancient homeland of the Jewish people is Israel.

The ancient homeland of the Edomites, the 'Palestinians', is Jordan.

The 'Palestinians' have a homeland, a state, it is called Jordan.

IMO,
1/ There will never, ever, be peace in the M.E., as a consequence of mankind's efforts [we, mankind, are too wicked, for peace to 'breakout' in the M.E.].

2/ Moslems will never, ever, again, own that strip of land known as 'Israel'.

Soon, the ISLAMIST's will gather themselves, to come against Israel, one last time.

The world community will be 'appalled' at the consequences of this conflict.

Israel will be condemned [...for defending itself].

Then, the world community itself, will decide to 'step in', and the world community will bring their forces [on behalf of the ISLAMIST's] against Israel.


Google;
all nations will come against israel







nairbe wrote on May 23^rd, 2011 at 8:33pm:

The middle east is beginning to change all on its own, Israel should be careful or they will be on the outside of the next big wave of change.

Israel should be careful.

Israel should choose to separate herself, to be separate, from the great evil which surrounds her, which is presently emerging.

These are going to be very difficult days, for tiny Israel.


'The next big wave of change' ???

LOL

Look into their hearts.

The M.E. is not 'changing'.

The people of the M.E. are not, 'changing'.

The [majority of the] people of the M.E. will never, ever, choose to 'cast off', or abandon, the 'religion' which they love.

That 'religion', which they choose to embrace.

In all of this 'change', nothing will be 'resolved', ...for the good.

A great evil is rising - that is all.

What will occur in the M.E., as the dust settles, is that the people of the M.E. will more decisively assert who they are.

The emerging, and 'new' M.E. politics [because politics is a reflection of what is in the hearts of men], will more clearly reveal, what man is capable of.

The tribulation.






+++




nairbe wrote on May 23^rd, 2011 at 8:33pm:

The middle east is beginning to change....the next big wave of change.

No moslem has any true love, of liberty.

Some moslems do indeed, 'desire' liberty.

But for liberty to be sustained, men must exercise a spirit of individual responsibility, and a willingness to defend truth, to our cost.

But moslems have no respect [in their heart], for truth, or a willingness to be responsible.

ISLAM has taught moslems to more 'perfectly' desire only 'licence', to do 'what is permitted'.





Among a people generally corrupt, liberty cannot long exist.
Edmund Burke


None can love freedom so heartily, but good men; the rest have not freedom, but licence.
John Hamilton


Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it.
George Bernard Shaw

chicken_lipsforme wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 8:42am:

Eliminate Hamas and their terrorist associates who are sworn to Israel's destruction at all costs.

You have it wrong, as usual. It is in fact the terrorist zionist entity Israel which is sworn and committed to the destruction of an arab presence in Palestine. Hamas is an organisation resisting persecution and suffering which is inflicted upon the Palestinians by Israel. It is Israeli's, who came from Europe and stole Palestinian land, not the other way around.


chicken_lipsforme wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 8:42am:

This will need to happen, because Israel will have no interest in any negotiations whatsoever with terrorists whilst rockets land in Sderot residential areas.

Sderot? Is this the town that was built on the ruins of the arab village of Najd. Yes, thats right, another arab village destroyed, its people evicted, and replaced with another Israeli 'settlement'. Its ironic that you talk about rockets landing on Sderot, when this town was built with the use of terrorist tactics.


chicken_lipsforme wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 8:42am:

The terrorists still hold SGT Gilat hostage after 4+ years. Snipers still shoot at Israeli civilians, and mortar rounds are routinely fired into Israel.

Snipers? I know you zionist cannot help but lie, it is in your nature, but the only snipers are the Israeli pigs who shoot Palestinians school kids in the head whilst sitting in class.

http://articles.cnn.com/2004-10-12/world/mideast.violence_1_israeli-soldiers-palestinian-girl-palestinian-security-and-hospital?_s=PM:WORLD

Exactly who are the terrorists? Shooting a 10 year old girl whilst sitting in class.

There are numerous cases where the Zionists pigs deliberately target Palestinian children.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/children-articles.html


chicken_lipsforme wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 8:42am:

If these terrorists lay down their arms, there will be peace.

If the terrorists stop stealing innocent peoples land, bulldozing innocent peoples homes, stop murdering innocent children, and go back to Europe where they came from, there will be peace.


chicken_lipsforme wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 8:42am:

If Israel lays down it's arms, there will be no more Israel.

There should never have been an Israel to begin with. You Europeans have no right to displace native arabs from their homes, the land they have lived in for over 1500 years, far longer then any claim that Jews have that they ruled over the land.

Every dog has its day, and you will have yours.


chicken_lipsforme wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 8:42am:

Appeasement has a zero success score any where or any time in history in the world, and Israel is not stupid enough to believe they will cheat history of it's perfect record.

Correct, and this is why the Palestinians will never surrender. Palestinians will never be appeased. You will always live in fear, always. The pain felt by Palestinians will be felt by you zionist pigs.

When the arabs finally wake up (and they are waking up), and the despotic US backed puppets are finally removed, you will be next.

Already with the removal of Mubarak the pig, Egypt is opening its borders. Its the beginning of the end. When the borders are opened, and thousands of arabs join our Palestinian brothers..then you will reap the seeds that you have sown.

Perfect record? Yeah, if your into killing children. I guess to you it is perfect hey.


chicken_lipsforme wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 8:42am:

Israel will need to bury it's enemies, and then there will be peace.

There are over 1 billion muslims in the world, over 300 million arabs surrounding you. We breed faster then you. It is you who will be buried.

You have ruled Israel for 50 years, this is nothing but a pin drop in time. THe crusaders ruled Jerusalem for over 100 years...what happened to them?

You will be destroyed...it is inevetible.

@ Chicken _lips and Lestat-

Got any good ideas what to do with eggplant?

Lestat wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 9:42am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on May 24th, 2011 at 8:42am: Eliminate Hamas and their terrorist associates who are sworn to Israel's destruction at all costs. You have it wrong, as usual. It is in fact the terrorist zionist entity Israel which is sworn and committed to the destruction of an arab presence in Palestine. Hamas is an organisation resisting persecution and suffering which is inflicted upon the Palestinians by Israel. It is Israeli's, who came from Europe and stole Palestinian land, not the other way around. chicken_lipsforme wrote on May 24th, 2011 at 8:42am: This will need to happen, because Israel will have no interest in any negotiations whatsoever with terrorists whilst rockets land in Sderot residential areas. Sderot? Is this the town that was built on the ruins of the arab village of Najd. Yes, thats right, another arab village destroyed, its people evicted, and replaced with another Israeli 'settlement'. Its ironic that you talk about rockets landing on Sderot, when this town was built with the use of terrorist tactics. chicken_lipsforme wrote on May 24th, 2011 at 8:42am: The terrorists still hold SGT Gilat hostage after 4+ years. Snipers still shoot at Israeli civilians, and mortar rounds are routinely fired into Israel. Snipers? I know you zionist cannot help but lie, it is in your nature, but the only snipers are the Israeli pigs who shoot Palestinians school kids in the head whilst sitting in class. http://articles.cnn.com/2004-10-12/world/mideast.violence_1_israeli-soldiers-palestinian-girl-palestinian-security-and-hospital?_s=PM:WORLD Exactly who are the terrorists? Shooting a 10 year old girl whilst sitting in class. There are numerous cases where the Zionists pigs deliberately target Palestinian children. http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/children-articles.html chicken_lipsforme wrote on May 24th, 2011 at 8:42am: If these terrorists lay down their arms, there will be peace. If the terrorists stop stealing innocent peoples land, bulldozing innocent peoples homes, stop murdering innocent children, and go back to Europe where they came from, there will be peace. chicken_lipsforme wrote on May 24th, 2011 at 8:42am: If Israel lays down it's arms, there will be no more Israel. There should never have been an Israel to begin with. You Europeans have no right to displace native arabs from their homes, the land they have lived in for over 1500 years, far longer then any claim that Jews have that they ruled over the land. Every dog has its day, and you will have yours. chicken_lipsforme wrote on May 24th, 2011 at 8:42am: Appeasement has a zero success score any where or any time in history in the world, and Israel is not stupid enough to believe they will cheat history of it's perfect record. Correct, and this is why the Palestinians will never surrender. Palestinians will never be appeased. You will always live in fear, always. The pain felt by Palestinians will be felt by you zionist pigs. When the arabs finally wake up (and they are waking up), and the despotic US backed puppets are finally removed, you will be next. Already with the removal of Mubarak the pig, Egypt is opening its borders. Its the beginning of the end. When the borders are opened, and thousands of arabs join our Palestinian brothers..then you will reap the seeds that you have sown. Perfect record? Yeah, if your into killing children. I guess to you it is perfect hey. chicken_lipsforme wrote on May 24th, 2011 at 8:42am: Israel will need to bury it's enemies, and then there will be peace. There are over 1 billion muslims in the world, over 300 million arabs surrounding you. We breed faster then you. It is you who will be buried. You have ruled Israel for 50 years, this is nothing but a pin drop in time. THe crusaders ruled Jerusalem for over 100 years...what happened to them? You will be destroyed...it is inevetible.

What a weird toad of a man you are with your strange and odd historical revisionism.
Who ever heard of the term 'Palestinian' before 1900, so what Palestinian land?
Certainly not the Ottomans nor the Egyptians.
You think for a moment if the Israeli's wished to annihalate the Palestinians, it wouldn't have already happened by now.
How odd you are to even think so.
And those Arabs have tried their hand before at wiping Israel off the map, four times in fact.
And left their mens corpes on the desert floor by the thousands in their twisted burnt out tanks and shot down aircraft.
And today those same countries would rather trade with Israel than fight.
Their people will stay alive much longer that way.
And if the Palestinians have an expectation of getting out of their box, they will need to learn to play nice.
You think that many of the other Muslim nations treat Palestinians the way they do today because they feel like it.
You think Jordan slaughtered so many of them during Black September because they were bored, or Lebanon keeps them locked behind razor wire even today.
Even Jordan, whose population is 60% Palestinian demonstrated in tearing up all those dual passports that they want no more of them.
Time to wake up and smell the coffee slapnut.

Grey wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 10:40am:

@ Chicken _lips and Lestat- Got any good ideas what to do with eggplant?

I'm glad you asked Grey.
But you shouldn't have asked Lestat though, he would say you cook eggplant using Jewish babies skulls as the fry pan.

Now onto more serious matters, you first crumb Eggplant in egg yolk and fresh breadcrumbs, sprinkle with black peppercorns and salt, and then fry gently on the pan using butter until golden brown.
And serve with a hot tomato coulis with a nice fried chicken breast.
Absolutely beautiful. :)

Lestat wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 9:42am:

There are over 1 billion muslims in the world, over 300 million arabs surrounding you. We breed faster then you. It is you who will be buried. You have ruled Israel for 50 years, this is nothing but a pin drop in time. THe crusaders ruled Jerusalem for over 100 years...what happened to them? You will be destroyed...it is inevetible.

Lestat,


I can promise you, moslems will never, ever, again, own that strip of land known as 'Israel'.




IMAGE...
http://www.protestwarrior.com/nimages/signs/large/pw_sign_22.gif
WHINE, WHINE, WHINE, WHINE, WHINE.



What moslems have longed for, is coming,   ....to themselves.


Ezekiel 35:5
Because thou hast had a perpetual hatred, and hast shed the blood of the children of Israel by the force of the sword in the time of their calamity, in the time that their iniquity had an end:
6  Therefore, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, I will prepare thee unto blood, and blood shall pursue thee: sith thou hast not hated blood, even blood shall pursue thee.

Lestat wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 9:42am:

......you will reap the seeds that you have sown.

Prophetic words indeed Lestat.




+++


Psalms 28:3
Draw me not away with the wicked, and with the workers of iniquity, which speak peace to their neighbours, but mischief is in their hearts.
4  Give them according to their deeds, and according to the wickedness of their endeavours: give them after the work of their hands; render to them their desert.



Our, just 'deserts' are coming Lestat.

Yadda wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 12:13pm:

Lestat wrote on May 24th, 2011 at 9:42am: There are over 1 billion muslims in the world, over 300 million arabs surrounding you. We breed faster then you. It is you who will be buried. You have ruled Israel for 50 years, this is nothing but a pin drop in time. THe crusaders ruled Jerusalem for over 100 years...what happened to them? You will be destroyed...it is inevetible. Lestat, I can promise you, moslems will never, ever, again, own that strip of land known as 'Israel'. IMAGE... http://www.protestwarrior.com/nimages/signs/large/pw_sign_22.gif WHINE, WHINE, WHINE, WHINE, WHINE. What moslems have longed for, is coming,   ....to themselves. Ezekiel 35:5 Because thou hast had a perpetual hatred, and hast shed the blood of the children of Israel by the force of the sword in the time of their calamity, in the time that their iniquity had an end: 6  Therefore, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, I will prepare thee unto blood, and blood shall pursue thee: sith thou hast not hated blood, even blood shall pursue thee.

Now there is one picture that says more than just one thousand words yadda.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 1:21pm:

Now there is one picture that says more than just one thousand words yadda.

Israel is not a large mass of land, it is tiny.

And it is the ancient homeland of the Jewish people.

I like this pic...

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/images/israelmap.jpg

"A land which the LORD thy God careth for: the eyes of the LORD thy God are always upon it,..."

Quote:

BUT [i suspect that you will strongly disagree with me here....], i would like to see those who self declare, as being moslems, removed [expelled] from Australia. I do believe, that if we [Australians], have informed ourselves, and understand what ISLAM truly is, that [from my own point of view, regarding ISLAM] each of us has a moral responsibility to seek to separate ourselves, from moslems/ISLAM.

Well you are absolutely correct about me disagreeing....

Look at it this way, as of 2006 there were over 340,000 muslims in Australia....
How many have actually 'threatened' our way of life or government system??.........All told, about 1 or 2 thousand...

Think about the all the armed robberies, murders, rapes, vandalism etc committed by christians.......Neddy Smith, Abe Safron, Jason Moran, Robert Trimboli, The Honoured Society, the Williams family....the list is endless

Should we expell ALL christians from Australia, because a small percentage commit crimes??????

And the 'extremist' segment of Islam is based, almost exclusively, on the teachings and opinions of a small number of ( twisted and deranged) clerics....
Most muslims want what you and I want....to live undisturbed, raise their families, go to work and worship (or not) as they choose.

The ones that don't should be treated as what they are...if they break the law, they're JUST criminals........Not because they're muslims, but because they broke the law..

gizmo_2655 wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 3:08pm:

Quote: BUT [i suspect that you will strongly disagree with me here....], i would like to see those who self declare, as being moslems, removed [expelled] from Australia. I do believe, that if we [Australians], have informed ourselves, and understand what ISLAM truly is, that [from my own point of view, regarding ISLAM] each of us has a moral responsibility to seek to separate ourselves, from moslems/ISLAM. Well you are absolutely correct about me disagreeing.... Look at it this way, as of 2006 there were over 340,000 muslims in Australia.... How many have actually 'threatened' our way of life or government system??.........All told, about 1 or 2 thousand...

gizmo,

So, we have only 340,000 moslems living in Australia ???

Q.
TELL ME gizmo, how many moslems did it take, to commit this outrage ???
IMAGE...
http://911review.org/_webimages/sept11planephotos/wtc-plane.jpg

A.
19 moslems.i

gizmo_2655 wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 3:08pm:

Think about the all the armed robberies, murders, rapes, vandalism etc committed by christians.......Neddy Smith, Abe Safron, Jason Moran, Robert Trimboli, The Honoured Society, the Williams family....the list is endless Should we expell ALL christians from Australia, because a small percentage commit crimes??????

gizmo,

Yes of course, those people are all 'card carrying' Christians.
/sarc off

Get real.

Please tell me gizmo, in what sense, do any of those persons qualify, as Christians ???

e.g.
Do any of them, self declare...."I am a Christian ???"

....in the same way, that many moslems self declare...."I am a moslem. Allah is my God, and Mohammed is his prophet."

p.s.
FYI, Abe Safron was 'nominally', a Jew.







gizmo_2655 wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 3:08pm:

And the 'extremist' segment of Islam is based, almost exclusively, on the teachings and opinions of a small number of ( twisted and deranged) clerics.... Most muslims want what you and I want....to live undisturbed, raise their families, go to work and worship (or not) as they choose. The ones that don't should be treated as what they are...if they break the law, they're JUST criminals........Not because they're muslims, but because they broke the law..

I agree.

And gizmo, if you are 'genuine', then tell me, what should we do with moslems like these ???
IMAGE...
http://www.zionism-israel.com/ezine/Isllam2.jpg


THOSE PLACARDS, AT A MOSLEM STREET PROTEST IN LONDON READ.....

"Slay those who insult Islam"
"Behead those who insult Islam"
"Massacre those who insult Islam"
"Butcher those who mock Islam"
"Europe you will pay, demolition is on its way"
"Europe you will pay, extermination is on its way"
"Exterminate those who slander Islam"
"Europe is the cancer, Islam is the answer"
"Islam will dominate the world"
"Freedom go to hell"
"Europe take some lessons from 9/11"
"Be prepared for the real Holocaust"
"BBC = British Blasphemic Crusaders"


n.b. gizmo;
Those moslems, are inciting MURDER, on those signs.

So, what should be their punishment, in a fair world ???

Netanyahu in his speech to congress:
In 1920, the San Remo International Conference confirmed the Balfour Declaration and gave Britain the mandate over both sides of the Jordan River.  King Feisal of Iraq, in the name of the Arab delegation to the 1919 peace conference after WWI, wrote: “Our delegation here in Paris are fully aware of the suggestions the Zionist Federation made to the peace conference. In our eyes they are modest and fitting, and we will do our best to have them accepted. We will welcome the Jews warmly when they come home”.

Two years later, the eastern bank of the Jordan, an area of about 90,000 square kilometers, was separated and closed to Jewish immigration.  What remained for the Jews was the west bank of the Jordan, an area of only 26,000 square kilometers. The decision to hand over the land east of the Jordan to the head of the Saudi royal family was decided on by Great Britain for political ends.





25 May is the independence day of that country of palestinian arabs.

Yadda wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 3:59pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on May 24th, 2011 at 3:08pm: Quote: BUT [i suspect that you will strongly disagree with me here....], i would like to see those who self declare, as being moslems, removed [expelled] from Australia. I do believe, that if we [Australians], have informed ourselves, and understand what ISLAM truly is, that [from my own point of view, regarding ISLAM] each of us has a moral responsibility to seek to separate ourselves, from moslems/ISLAM. Well you are absolutely correct about me disagreeing.... Look at it this way, as of 2006 there were over 340,000 muslims in Australia.... How many have actually 'threatened' our way of life or government system??.........All told, about 1 or 2 thousand... gizmo, So, we have only 340,000 moslems living in Australia ??? Q. TELL ME gizmo, how many moslems did it take, to commit this outrage ??? IMAGE... http://911review.org/_webimages/sept11planephotos/wtc-plane.jpg A. 19 moslems. gizmo_2655 wrote on May 24th, 2011 at 3:08pm: Think about the all the armed robberies, murders, rapes, vandalism etc committed by christians.......Neddy Smith, Abe Safron, Jason Moran, Robert Trimboli, The Honoured Society, the Williams family....the list is endless Should we expell ALL christians from Australia, because a small percentage commit crimes?????? gizmo, Yes of course, those people are all 'card carrying' Christians. /sarc off Get real. Please tell me gizmo, in what sense, do any of those persons qualify, as Christians ??? e.g. Do any of them, self declare...."I am a Christian ???" ....in the same way, that many moslems self declare...."I am a moslem. Allah is my God, and Mohammed is his prophet." p.s. FYI, Abe Safron was 'nominally', a Jew. gizmo_2655 wrote on May 24th, 2011 at 3:08pm: And the 'extremist' segment of Islam is based, almost exclusively, on the teachings and opinions of a small number of ( twisted and deranged) clerics.... Most muslims want what you and I want....to live undisturbed, raise their families, go to work and worship (or not) as they choose. The ones that don't should be treated as what they are...if they break the law, they're JUST criminals........Not because they're muslims, but because they broke the law.. I agree. And gizmo, if you are 'genuine', then tell me, what should we do with moslems like these ??? IMAGE... http://www.zionism-israel.com/ezine/Isllam2.jpg THOSE PLACARDS, AT A MOSLEM STREET PROTEST IN LONDON READ..... "Slay those who insult Islam" "Behead those who insult Islam" "Massacre those who insult Islam" "Butcher those who mock Islam" "Europe you will pay, demolition is on its way" "Europe you will pay, extermination is on its way" "Exterminate those who slander Islam" "Europe is the cancer, Islam is the answer" "Islam will dominate the world" "Freedom go to hell" "Europe take some lessons from 9/11" "Be prepared for the real Holocaust" "BBC = British Blasphemic Crusaders" n.b. gizmo; Those moslems, are inciting MURDER, on those signs. So, what should be their punishment, in a fair world ???

Precisely....19 deluded fanatics.....their religion isn't really all that relevant....they were just basically 'brainwashed'..

Half of the hijackers at Entebbe were Germans (and NOT muslims or Arabs)...There are always nutters who get off on killing people or blowing stuff up. Their 'stated' reason is usually crap....they just want to kill or explode big bombs.

As for the people holding the signs.....fine, kick them to the kerb....but there's no reason to also expell the guy who works 18 hours a day running the take-a-way shop, or in a factory...

In order to recognize Zionism for what it is, one has to know about Judaism, about Zionism -- the opposite and negation of Judaism, and about Jewish history.

_________________

http://www.israelect.com/Come-and-Hear/editor/br_3.html


Blood Ritual
3: Human Sacrifice, the Talmud, and the Moloch Problem

No one today seriously suggests present-day Jews sacrifice children to Moloch. Moloch (sometimes spelled "Molech") was an Old Testament god whom the Hebrews worshipped from time to time, and to whom they sacrificed their children. The Babylonian Talmud, however, still permits Jews to sacrifice children to Moloch — under certain conditions.
LORD God Accepts Human Sacrifice
First, let's get perspective. Some mistakenly believe human sacrifice is forbidden in the Old Testament. Certainly, some of the prophets railed against it. But in at least one book, LORD God accepts human sacrifice. And in another book, LORD God is appeased by human sacrifice.
In the following account from the Book of Judges, the Israelite warrior Jephthah is about to set off to make war on the Ammonites. In payment for victory, Jephthah promises LORD God he will sacrifice the first "whatsoever" that comes from his house to greet him upon his return. Unless Jephthah keeps oxen, sheep, goats, or chickens in his living room, he must expect the promised victim will be a human being. Notice that Jephthah does not promise to sacrifice "an ox" or "a goat," etc. (7)



http://www.omegatimes.com/article.php?intid=1215



http://www.gaychristian101.com/Molech.html

_____________

i do not judge

i observe the his/her story of ancient worshipping this fire god moloch/

molech

forgive these blood drinking child sacrificing freemasons

these will go unto that which they do invoke

namaste

Soren wrote on May 24^th, 2011 at 9:46pm:

Netanyahu in his speech to congress: In 1920, the San Remo International Conference confirmed the Balfour Declaration and gave Britain the mandate over both sides of the Jordan River.  King Feisal of Iraq, in the name of the Arab delegation to the 1919 peace conference after WWI, wrote: “Our delegation here in Paris are fully aware of the suggestions the Zionist Federation made to the peace conference. In our eyes they are modest and fitting, and we will do our best to have them accepted. We will welcome the Jews warmly when they come home”. Two years later, the eastern bank of the Jordan, an area of about 90,000 square kilometers, was separated and closed to Jewish immigration.  What remained for the Jews was the west bank of the Jordan, an area of only 26,000 square kilometers. The decision to hand over the land east of the Jordan to the head of the Saudi royal family was decided on by Great Britain for political ends.

COMPLIMENTING soren's post.

A few maps which show what the Jews were promised, what the Jews accepted,
....and what moslems today, are willing to accept.





THE BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE - AFTER TURKEY LOST ITS 'TERRITORIES', POST WWI,
...WHICH WAS ALSO, THE AREA WHICH WAS ORIGINALLY PROMISED TO THE JEWISH PEOPLE, FOR THEIR HOMELAND...
http://www.solarnavigator.net/geography/geography_images/Palestine_British_Mandate_1920.jpg




THE AGREED PARTITION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE
...70 % FOR ARABS,
...WITH 30 % OF THE ORIGINAL [ALLOCATED] AREA REMAINING FOR A JEWISH HOMELAND - ALL OF THE LAND ON THE WEST BANK OF THE JORDAN
http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/oren/Transjordan%20separation%201922.jpg




THE AGREED PARTITION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE
...70 % FOR ARABS,
...WITH 30 % OF THE ORIGINAL [ALLOCATED] AREA REMAINING FOR A JEWISH HOMELAND - ALL OF THE LAND ON THE WEST BANK OF THE JORDAN
http://zioneocon.blogspot.com/map%20partition%20transjordan.gif




THE AREA OF PALESTINE TODAY, WHICH MOSLEMS [i.e. 'Palestinians'] DEMAND FOR THEMSELVES,
....HAVING PREVIOUSLY BEEN GRANTED ALL OF THE LAND IN THE 'BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE' AREA, ON THE EAST BANK OF THE JORDAN
http://monitorcal.org/palestine_map.jpg




+++






There will never be peace in the M.E. between Israel, and local moslems.

And, there is no peace in the M.E. because of the intransigence of moslems.




There were tens of millions of Europeans who were 'displaced people' [i.e. 'stateless'], at the conclusion of WWII.

Where are those 'stateless' people today ???

The worldwide moslem community, the ummah, could have easily absorbed moslems from 'Palestine', after 1948.

The worldwide moslem community refuse to do that.

WHY SO ???

LOOK AT THE MAP BELOW, DEMONSTRATING THE LAND MASS HELD BY MOSLEMS, SURROUNDING Israel.

Yet the worldwide moslem community refuse to absorb, 'Palestine' refugees.

Why so ???

Duh!!

Because quite obviously, while ever 'Palestine' refugees 'exist',  the issue of 'Palestine' 'stateless' 'refugees', is a wonderful 'stick', with which moslems can beat Israel, on the stage of world public opinion.


http://www.protestwarrior.com/nimages/signs/large/pw_sign_22.gif
'THE JEWISH PEOPLE MUST NEVER BE PERMITTED TO AGAIN POSSESS THEIR ANCIENT HOMELAND'
....The Religion of Peace.

http://0.tqn.com/d/middleeast/1/G/K/6/-/-/0412-irgun-logo.jpg

The emblem of IRGUN, containing the entire British Mandate of Palestine.

This is the tragedy of Palestine. What began as a win win situation for Arab and Jew alike, a return of at least part of the Jewish diaspora, bringing knowledges and money, turned into a virulent hate organisation driven by racists and terrorists. Nobody can deny the diatribes of the Jewish Hitler,  Ze'ev Jabotinsky. His Revisionist Zionists begat the Irgun terrorists who became the Likud, the rulers of Israel for most of its modern history. The Irgun was formed in the 1930's but it's doubtful if these bastards would have had any success but for the 'Holocaust'.

Israel is a nation ill led, like the rest of the ME, like the rest of the world to some extent. I have no faith in leaders. Those who most want to wield power over their compatriots are those most ill equipped to do a good job of it. But most of the peoples of the diaspora are not racists. Most are ordinary people who, like most Arabs and most ordinary people everywhere, want to live lives in peace and security and lay better foundations for their children than they had. Most people are good, decent and reasonable. Quietly heroic.

http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2008/s2167985.htm

So it is Moshe and Munir I support, not Israel or Palestine, Likud or Hamas, Muslim or Jew. If I favour the Palestinian over the Israeli it is because Israel has the power. Only the powerful can be generous. There will never be peace while Palestinians are dispossed of water and arable land. Ordinary Israelis will never be secure living next to a made to fail state. Peace can only come through a one state solution.

http://www.ceia-sc.org/page55/page112/page118/page118.Israel.water.war.html

Something i came across on another 'Israel/Palestine' 'thread'...



Israel is the Wild Card of Wild Cards
".....Meanwhile, UPI is reporting more protests are being planned by Palestinian groups.  The story yesterday reported, "A Palestinian group Sunday said more protests were being planned along Israel’s borders and warned it is "just the beginning." . . . The committee called for peaceful marches next month "to the borders of historic Palestine," the news agency said."....."
http://usawatchdog.com/israel-and-palestine/



I found this interesting...
On the same page [above] a comment by, mayeeden.
This person sums up all of Israel's past, present and future [as is revealed in the OT bible], in one sentence...

"...They [the children of Israel] would enter the land, prosper, forget God and be unthankful, provoke God to anger and judgement, be driven out into the 4 corners of the earth and mistreated with nowhere to call their home and then in the latter days, return to their land and receive their King...."

This person, mayeeden, could be referring to the "Song of Moses", where God, through Moses revealed to 'the children of Israel', in advance, what would be their whole history.

Google;
"Song of Moses"


+++

Leviticus 26:32
And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it.
33  And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.

Deuteronomy 4:26
I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed.
27  And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you.
....
29  But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
30  When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;

Deuteronomy 28:37
And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations whither the LORD shall lead thee.

Deuteronomy 28:64
And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.
65  And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind:
66  And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:

The Song of Moses;
Deuteronomy 31:14 to Deuteronomy 32:47

1 Kings 9:6
But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them:
7  Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people:
8  And at this house, which is high, every one that passeth by it shall be astonished, and shall hiss; and they shall say, Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and to this house?
9  And they shall answer, Because they forsook the LORD their God, who brought forth their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and have taken hold upon other gods, and have worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath the LORD brought upon them all this evil.

Ezekiel 20:23

Ezekiel 36:17-19, 23-24

We talk Politics here Yadda, not mumbo jumbo. If everything came to pass as god planned it we needn't bother. We needn't bother trying to be better than we are, trying to bring peace where there is conflict, or even trying to raise our kids to be decent people. It is better these pages be left blank than to be filled with your wallpapers of shite.  >:(

And the Moslem will do unto the French (because of Australia).
What the Germans did unto the Jews (because of Namerica).

Then both Jew and Moslem will UNITE and attack ITALY and reclaim what is rightfully theirs ...their "Precious", from the Vatican.

Thus, like a 'Dagger' the State of Israel plunges deep into the Payer Rug of the Islamic Middle-East.
But such are the Religions of Asian, African and European influence that such disharmony and violence prevails.
So it is that the Religions of Australia, Namerica and Samerica will eventually bring forth the true Religion of the Middle-East (for Asia, Africa and Europe work for the Scientific/Musical Occidental)

...SIN (back to the Temple of Ur).

For 2000 years the Jews oppressed Germany through Christianity saying "We are the only way!" but once Namerica showed the Truth, Germany broke its cross and kicked the Jews out of the European Garden as surely as the French will prevent the Moslems from entering.

Down with Asia's Judaism.
Down with Europe's Christianity.
Down with Africa's Mohommedism.
...using Cruelty, Malice and the will to Dominate through the Middle-East on behalf of the Occidental. SABOTAGE!

Raise the Religions of Namerica, Samerica and Australia to bring forth the Original Sin from the Temple (not City, not Land, not Power) of Ur.

;)

Grey wrote on May 27^th, 2011 at 11:43am:

We talk Politics here Yadda, not mumbo jumbo. If everything came to pass as god planned it we needn't bother. We needn't bother trying to be better than we are, trying to bring peace where there is conflict, or even trying to raise our kids to be decent people. It is better these pages be left blank than to be filled with your wallpapers of shite.  >:(

To Grey,    ....the great OzPol 'liberal',

In your universe, people should not speak unless their worldview coincides with your own then ???

I that your position ??




Dictionary;
liberal = = respectful and accepting of behaviour or opinions different from one’s own; open to new ideas. Ø (of a society, law, etc.) favourable to individual rights and freedoms.




And Grey, 'free and open debate', means ???

What is your opinion Grey ???

a/      That free and open debate, should be a contest of ideas ??
....where every folly can be revealed ??
OR,
b/      That free and open debate means that those who have a 'varying' worldview to the majority, should not be heard ??



Grey,

Isn't the exposure of folly, and error, THE VERY FUNCTION, of free and open debate?

IMO, free and open debate is meant to be, is intended to be, a contest of ideas.
....where every folly is revealed.

Whereas, you would seem to want to play the part of a 'dictator' in this forum ??

Determining and 'authorising' which views will be accepted for debate ??


Grey,

Lies and falsehood are [easily] concealed in closed societies,
...because those closed societies are places where lies, and falsehood,
....ARE NEVER EXPOSED TO SCRUTINY, OR THE CRITICISM OF SPOKEN TRUTH.


Grey,

I am happy to be corrected by anyone [especially moslems], about every 'misconception' i have about ISLAM,
....and, I SEEK TO BE ALLOWED TO RESPOND IN DEBATE.

Whereas, if my 'position' is absurd, if my 'argument' is absurd, if my criticism of ISLAM is absurd,
...then you should be happy, to let me condemn myself, with my own words.

Open societies do not fear the opinions of fools [like myself!].
....open societies rather, EXPOSE and laugh at folly!

Q.
And how do open societies EXPOSE folly ??

A.
By encouraging free and open debate.



+++


Isaiah 32:3
And the eyes of them that see shall not be dim, and the ears of them that hear shall hearken.
4  The heart also of the rash shall understand knowledge, and the tongue of the stammerers shall be ready to speak plainly.
5  The vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful.
6  For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the LORD, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail.
7  The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right.
8  But the liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand.

Quote:

your universe, people should not speak unless their worldview coincides with your own then ???

In my Universe we deal with facts. If you're good at joining up the dots you make a picture. Of course if you pull your dots out of 2000 year old bull shite and don't necessarily connect them with a straight line, you can draw any animal you like.  ;D

Grey wrote on May 27^th, 2011 at 12:56pm:

In my Universe we deal with facts. If you're good at joining up the dots you make a picture. Of course if you pull your dots out of 2000 year old bull shite and don't necessarily connect them with a straight line, you can draw any animal you like.  ;D

But of course.
/sarc off



But doesn't our individual perspective [i.e. what we can 'see'], depend upon where each of us standing, at any give moment ???

Are you standing in my shoes Grey ???


The fact is, that i have not travelled to the places where you have been, and i have not seen the things which you have seen,
...and visa-versa.iI refer you to my post, here;

"All Aboard the Athiest bus .."
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1225016818/10#10

I'm not interestd in discussing atheism or religious matters Yadda. Is there anything you know about THE Israeli - Palestinian conflict that can shed some enlightenment on the subject?

Grey wrote on May 27^th, 2011 at 1:19pm:

I'm not interestd in discussing atheism or religious matters Yadda. Is there anything you know about THE Israeli - Palestinian conflict that can shed some enlightenment on the subject?

Yes.

The 'Palestinians' want to kill the Jews and to destroy the Jewish state,
....because their ISLAMIC religion justifies them, in seeking such a conclusion.

And THAT, is the undeniable reason for the interminable conflict between the 'Palestinians' and Israelis.

...and not because, "The Jews have stolen our land!!!",
....whine, whine, whine, whine, whine.


The 'Palestinians' have a state.

It is called Jordan.




Grey,

Will you accept that truth ???



+++



"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."  
Koran 9.123

"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76

"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

What are the Palestinians attacking the Israeli Nation with?

Sticks and stones and bare-footed women as human shields.Are you waiting for some 'cliche' Palestine David with a stone against the Goliath Israeli tank photo that is set up every conflict?
Besides Palestinians trying to be 'country' folk taking on 'city' folk (kinda defaults the problem doesn't it ::)) Israelis, the Palestinians are the 'new' expression of Islam: a poor, unpowered version of its greater past.
Mohommedism rose against Christianity, but it falls for Judaism.
Judaism falls for Christianity but rises against Mohommedism.
...its like barbed wire - the more the Moslems struggle, the more Judaism grows and entwines. Its like watching flies in a web.

Will the Jews gas the Palestinian masses? Not likely, they will eventually just take the Palestinian expression of Mohommedism under its wing and attack Italy instead as a medium to difuse any aggression between the two. Wonder if the Pope will die upon the Cross or take a dive like an Azzurri soccer player?? ;D

Jews and Moslems will Unite - its inevitable.

Watch this to the end ;D

The Israeli leader says unto the Palestinian Boy (behind the evil Sith Christian Pope).
"I am your Father"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skqa3QWipWw
classic!

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on May 27^th, 2011 at 1:46pm:

What are the Palestinians attacking the Israeli Nation with? Sticks and stones and bare-footed women as human shields.Are you waiting for some 'cliche' Palestine David with a stone against the Goliath Israeli tank photo that is set up every conflict? Besides Palestinians trying to be 'country' folk taking on 'city' folk (kinda defaults the problem doesn't it ::)) Israelis, the Palestinians are the 'new' expression of Islam: a poor, unpowered version of its greater past. Mohommedism rose against Christianity, but it falls for Judaism. Judaism falls for Christianity but rises against Mohommedism. ...its like barbed wire - the more the Moslems struggle, the more Judaism grows and entwines. Its like watching flies in a web. Will the Jews gas the Palestinian masses? Not likely, they will eventually just take the Palestinian expression of Mohommedism under its wing and attack Italy instead as a medium to difuse any aggression between the two. Wonder if the Pope will die upon the Cross or take a dive like an Azzurri soccer player?? ;D Jews and Moslems will Unite - its inevitable.

God forbid.

Not in this universe.


ISLAM is a death cult.

Judaism, the Jewish people, are the last remnant of God's people.

Sh!t and pure water cannot mix, and still be called pure.

And heres another one, abiet a bit cheesy with a nice soundtrack from Kitaro.
Notice the evil Skeksis Jews in their Holy City
verses the wise and passivistic Moslems of the Land,
where the male Gelfling Christian restores that which is "Precious".
;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXPsXoLTIT4&feature=related

The obviousness of the Islam/Israel (Ishtar) Unification is like sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo known to everyone. ::)

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on May 27^th, 2011 at 1:46pm:

What are the Palestinians attacking the Israeli Nation with? Sticks and stones and bare-footed women as human shields.Are you waiting for some 'cliche' Palestine David with a stone against the Goliath Israeli tank photo that is set up every conflict? Besides Palestinians trying to be 'country' folk taking on 'city' folk (kinda defaults the problem doesn't it ::)) Israelis, the Palestinians are the 'new' expression of Islam: a poor, unpowered version of its greater past. Mohommedism rose against Christianity, but it falls for Judaism. Judaism falls for Christianity but rises against Mohommedism. ...its like barbed wire - the more the Moslems struggle, the more Judaism grows and entwines. Its like watching flies in a web. Will the Jews gas the Palestinian masses? Not likely, they will eventually just take the Palestinian expression of Mohommedism under its wing and attack Italy instead as a medium to difuse any aggression between the two. Wonder if the Pope will die upon the Cross or take a dive like an Azzurri soccer player?? ;D Jews and Moslems will Unite - its inevitable.

You forgot to mention assault rifles(russian made or copies of russia kalashnikovs), Katyusha short and medium range rockets also Grad and Qassam rockets of various ranges, together with tripod mounted machine guns, mortars and numerous handguns (revolver and semi-auto)....mostly supplied by Iran, Syria and Lebanon..

Hmas did have some APCs too, not sure if they still do..

Hamas and Likud are leading people, they do not represent them. They lead then to a future of misery, especially if one of them emerges victorious. The offspring of Nazis are not grateful to their fathers for the Holocaust.

I urge you to watch this Yadda.

http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2008/s2167985.htm

Don't worry Gizmo, in a very short time soon (you will live to see it) - all those 'suppliers' will expend themselves and those weapons against France and a fair bit of Europe (except the Balkans ...once bitten, twice shy ;D). All that will remain of Mohommedism is a poor raggedy man behind the power of pro-creation from his women.

Grey wrote on May 27^th, 2011 at 3:18pm:

Hamas and Likud are leading people, they do not represent them. They lead then to a future of misery, especially if one of them emerges victorious. The offspring of Nazis are not grateful to their fathers for the Holocaust. I urge you to watch this Yadda. http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2008/s2167985.htm

Grey,

I read the page at the link.

But could not watch the vid.



I accept the fact that there are many nominal 'Palestinians' who are happy to live within Israel proper, peaceably, and under the authority, and the government of the Israeli state.

The fact is, also, that there are many other 'Palestinians', who would happily kill [murder] those many nominal 'Palestinians' who are happy to live within Israel proper, peaceably, and under the authority, and the government of the Israeli state.

The 'problem' is not, the existence of the Israeli/Jewish state.

The problem, is ISLAM, and its influence upon people.



And i will repeat, THE TRUTH OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES, again....


Quote:

The 'Palestinians' want to kill the Jews and to destroy the Jewish state, ....because their ISLAMIC religion justifies them, in seeking such a conclusion. And THAT, is the undeniable reason for the interminable conflict between the 'Palestinians' and Israelis. ...and not because, "The Jews have stolen our land!!!", ....whine, whine, whine, whine, whine. The 'Palestinians' have a state. It is called Jordan.

The problem is ISLAM.

Islam + Israel = Ishtar
;)

Of course there are many Islamists and Israelis that produce HATRED against such unification ...but they will die by their own 'de-vice'.

Yadda wrote on May 27^th, 2011 at 3:56pm:

The 'problem' is not, the existence of the Israeli/Jewish state. The problem, is ISLAM, and its influence upon people.

Israel ???

e.g.
Darfur, southern Thailand, Philippines, Bangladesh, Kashmir, Sudan, Ethiopia, Nigeria, and many other places, where the 'interfada' must continue, against those who do not believe as moslems believe.



Who is a moslem ???

A moslem is a person who declares;

"I am a moslem. Allah is my God, and Mohammed is his prophet."



Who is a moslem ???

A moslem, is a person who chooses to embrace a philosophy [ISLAM] which tells moslems that it is 'lawful' for moslems, to kill those who do not believe, as they believe.



"ban all 'religious' clothing"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1303119265/103#103

Quote:

From what i know, from my study, of ISLAM's own texts, and doctrines, i would confidently make this statement; Every good moslem in Australia [and indeed, every good moslem on the planet], by **self declaring** as a moslem, is self declaring a criminal intent [by our laws] against local non-moslems. Every moslem! Every non-moslem should be aware and recognise, that ISLAM is in fact, a criminal compact among moslems, to wage a violent 'religious' war against ALL non-moslems ['unbelievers']. And in my estimation, every good moslem **does understand** what his/her **religious** OBLIGATION is, to ISLAM, and to fellow moslems.

Show me my error.

What have i said, above, which is untrue ???

Quote:

I accept the fact that there are many nominal 'Palestinians' who are happy to live within Israel proper, peaceably, and under the authority, and the government of the Israeli state.

That has nothing to do with the story of Moshe and Munir. The story opens with Munir, a Palestinian man whose friend and coworker has just been shot by a sniper in the nearby settlement. He is angry and in emotional pain and says he hates them. But collects himself and demands to make clear that he means only those Jews who have shot his friend. But he still remembers his friend Moshe the Jew who he has not seen for decades. He KNOWS that this friendship is still there, despite everything, his photos of Moshe and his family are still among his most treasured possessions.

And Yada this is not an isolated incident. A few years ago The Guardian brought together families of victims from both sides. People who did hate the 'other' and when they heard each others stories they wept for each other and for all their peoples.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UO6YlkYNJQ

So true Grey. Many Moslems, Christians and Jews do get on - but it seems those who exist for the (Eye of ) Television seem only to exist for Hatred and against each other is the easiest of excuses to be so-called 'examples' of such Religion: HATRED. ::)

There is something far far worse for Moslems, Jews and Christians in this part of the world and they don't overly care for Religion, any Religion,  much at all (especially those that base their Religions upon the influence of Asia, Europe and Africa ;)).

I can solve the problem of Israel easily.

Australia has 12,000 miles of coastline.
We have plenty which we could give away for a new country called-
New Israel.
I would suggest somewhere between Adelaide & Perth - on the coast -
- maybe half way -
an area of land identical in size to Israel & about 130 miles long.
The Jews would all have to move there except for those willing to live with the Arabs
in a democratic state called Palestine.

They could have a new country surrounded by only friends.
They would not be allowed to bring nuclear weapons with them.
They could have their own International Airport & Seaport.
They would be allowed only a small army & Australia & the United Nations
would guarantee them military protection.

This is the only way we'll ever get peace & Australia has the solution
because we have so much spare land compared to other countries.

If we don't make this offer eventually the Middle East will
erupt in nuclear war & take the rest of the world with it.
We must act now to save ourselves & the price is so small.
The Jewish people could finally live in peace & prosperity.

Bobby. wrote on May 28^th, 2011 at 12:24am:

I can solve the problem of Israel easily. Australia has 12,000 miles of coastline. We have plenty which we could give away for a new country called- New Israel. I would suggest somewhere between Adelaide & Perth - on the coast - - maybe half way - an area of land identical in size to Israel & about 130 miles long. The Jews would all have to move there except for those willing to live with the Arabs in a democratic state called Palestine. They could have a new country surrounded by only friends. They would not be allowed to bring nuclear weapons with them. They could have their own International Airport & Seaport. They would be allowed only a small army & Australia & the United Nations would guarantee them military protection. This is the only way we'll ever get peace & Australia has the solution because we have so much spare land compared to other countries. If we don't make this offer eventually the Middle East will erupt in nuclear war & take the rest of the world with it. We must act now to save ourselves & the price is so small. The Jewish people could finally live in peace & prosperity.

;D

What's there to laugh about Belgarion?

A nuclear war in the Middle East that would involve the whole world?

I don't find that funny & it will happen unless we solve the problem of Israel -
a nuclear armed country that is too small to defend,
surrounded by 100s of millions of Arabs who hate it.

Hundreds of Jews and Arabs from the north and center of Israel gathered near Kfar Kara'a on Highway 65 Saturday in a rally for peace. The only sign present at the demonstration read "Hand in hand – neighbors for peace".

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3653776,00.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlKX-m17C7U

Bobby. wrote on May 28^th, 2011 at 10:41am:

What's there to laugh about Belgarion? A nuclear war in the Middle East that would involve the whole world? I don't find that funny & it will happen unless we solve the problem of Israel - a nuclear armed country that is too small to defend, surrounded by 100s of millions of Arabs who hate it.

The problem is much smaller than that of the popular imagination. Most of the millions of Arabs and Muslims surrounding Israel are concerned with the ordinary details of life. If stirred to political anger it is directed against their own head of state not Israel, not even the Jewish embassy. The same thing is true for Jews. What most Arabs and Jews want is for their I/P problem to go away.

The problem is the gangs, Likud and Hamas. In particular the leadership of those gangs. Khaled Mashal and Benjamin Netanyahu are men of some intelligence and ambition. If they become convinced that being doves will consolidate their positions of power and place in history better than being hawks then they would change their attitudes overnight. Gangs do complete somersaults on their 'principles' all the time, often without many people noticing.

Note, Conservatives actually wanted to conserve things at one time, Unions represented workers rather than leading them and the Labor party was concerned with 'human rights'. In 1946 you couldn't find a German Nazi and by 1950 Britain's policy of 'forgive and forget' was followed virtually 100% even though London was visibly deeply scarred from the blitz well into the 60's.

The HAYTE of Arab and Israeli is all about propaganda. It can be swept away by effective counter propaganda as quickly as the belief that smoking is coool and sexy.

There's no REAL problem with Arabs getting along with Jews, it's just a mythology.

That's why Israel built the wall, it gives a physical reality to myth making. That's why, like the Berlin wall, it must come down and the 'impossibility' of a one party solution must be challenged because as long as Palestine is divided into the rich areas and the bantustans the mythology remains undefeated and there will be no peace.  

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/136250

A 'one state solution' even in a country as small as Israel could comprise of several minor states, a Federal system similar to Australia's. The hugely contested and emotive 'jerusalem' becomes the capital territory. An 'Israel' can still exist as a state amd so can 'Palestine'.

Some towns and cities within Israel have very harmonious 50/50 societies right now, while some, like Tel Aviv are predominantly Jewish. It might therefore be diplomatic for the 'states' to have a lot more autonomy than Australia's have, for the present. Even laws restricting residency to Jews could be tolerated, Because as confidence builds and federalism strengthens, (inevitable) a homogenous state will emerge.

Ultimately I would expect such a federal state to become so successful that Jordan, Lebanon and Syria would join it.

The Jewish Father
The Moslem Son
and the Christian Holy Ghost.

;D

Grey wrote on May 28^th, 2011 at 12:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 28th, 2011 at 10:41am: What's there to laugh about Belgarion? A nuclear war in the Middle East that would involve the whole world? I don't find that funny & it will happen unless we solve the problem of Israel - a nuclear armed country that is too small to defend, surrounded by 100s of millions of Arabs who hate it. The problem is much smaller than that of the popular imagination. Most of the millions of Arabs and Muslims surrounding Israel are concerned with the ordinary details of life. If stirred to political anger it is directed against their own head of state not Israel, not even the Jewish embassy. The same thing is true for Jews. What most Arabs and Jews want is for their I/P problem to go away. The problem is the gangs, Likud and Hamas. In particular the leadership of those gangs. Khaled Mashal and Benjamin Netanyahu are men of some intelligence and ambition. If they become convinced that being doves will consolidate their positions of power and place in history better than being hawks then they would change their attitudes overnight. Gangs do complete somersaults on their 'principles' all the time, often without many people noticing. Note, Conservatives actually wanted to conserve things at one time, Unions represented workers rather than leading them and the Labor party was concerned with 'human rights'. In 1946 you couldn't find a German Nazi and by 1950 Britain's policy of 'forgive and forget' was followed virtually 100% even though London was visibly deeply scarred from the blitz well into the 60's. The HAYTE of Arab and Israeli is all about propaganda. It can be swept away by effective counter propaganda as quickly as the belief that smoking is coool and sexy. There's no REAL problem with Arabs getting along with Jews, it's just a mythology. That's why Israel built the wall, it gives a physical reality to myth making. That's why, like the Berlin wall, it must come down and the 'impossibility' of a one party solution must be challenged because as long as Palestine is divided into the rich areas and the bantustans the mythology remains undefeated and there will be no peace.   http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/136250 A 'one state solution' even in a country as small as Israel could comprise of several minor states, a Federal system similar to Australia's. The hugely contested and emotive 'jerusalem' becomes the capital territory. An 'Israel' can still exist as a state amd so can 'Palestine'. Some towns and cities within Israel have very harmonious 50/50 societies right now, while some, like Tel Aviv are predominantly Jewish. It might therefore be diplomatic for the 'states' to have a lot more autonomy than Australia's have, for the present. Even laws restricting residency to Jews could be tolerated, Because as confidence builds and federalism strengthens, (inevitable) a homogenous state will emerge. Ultimately I would expect such a federal state to become so successful that Jordan, Lebanon and Syria would join it.

Grey - you're a dreamer.
My solution of New Israel would work.

Bobby. wrote on May 28^th, 2011 at 1:51pm:

Grey - you're a dreamer. Quote: But I'm not the only one, Why won't you come and join us, And the wuurrrrrld could live as one ;D My solution of New Israel would work.

Forgive me Bob the bat, but if my solution is a dream yours is bat poo crazy. Do you really imagine (a) That Australians would give away the bite. (B) Jews would exchange Tel Aviv for it?

What I am suggesting is to go back to the historical default. Jews and Arabs both living side by side in the ME. Nothing fanciful there.

Grey wrote on May 28^th, 2011 at 2:16pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 28th, 2011 at 1:51pm: Grey - you're a dreamer. Quote: But I'm not the only one, Why won't you come and join us, And the wuurrrrrld could live as one ;D My solution of New Israel would work. Forgive me Bob the bat, but if my solution is a dream yours is bat poo crazy. Do you really imagine (a) That Australians would give away the bite. (B) Jews would exchange Tel Aviv for it? What I am suggesting is to go back to the historical default. Jews and Arabs both living side by side in the ME. Nothing fanciful there.

Yes Australians would give away a small section of their coastline
in the interest of world peace & the avoidance of nuclear war.
We could vote on it in a referendum.
The problem would be to get the Jews to accept it because they
honestly believe that God gave them the promised land in Israel.

Bobby. wrote on May 28^th, 2011 at 10:41am:

What's there to laugh about Belgarion? A nuclear war in the Middle East that would involve the whole world? I don't find that funny & it will happen unless we solve the problem of Israel - a nuclear armed country that is too small to defend, surrounded by 100s of millions of Arabs who hate it.

Sorry Bobby, I didn't realise you were serious. The problems here are that A. Australians are unlikely to be happy with giving away a large chunk of their country, and B, the Jews believe that the land they hold now is what was given to them by God and nothing else will do. I believe the idea of Jewish homeland in Australia has already been mooted back on the early 1900s and was soundly rejected then. Also Uganda and Mauritius have been suggested at various times with the same result.

Grey wrote on May 28^th, 2011 at 2:16pm:

Forgive me Bob the bat, but if my solution is a dream yours is bat poo crazy. Do you really imagine (a) That Australians would give away the bite. (B) Jews would exchange Tel Aviv for it? What I am suggesting is to go back to the historical default. Jews and Arabs both living side by side in the ME. Nothing fanciful there.

Grey,

Jews and Arabs both living side by side in the ME ?

That is not impossible....

....EXCEPT.

As per usual, you [and people like yourself] have yet again, completely ignored the reality,
....of the influence of ISLAM upon the relationship, between Jews and Arabs.



ISLAM will only allow such a circumstance [of Jews and Arabs living side by side],
....in circumstances where moslems are 1 class citizens,
....and where non-moslems [in this instance, the Jewish people] must be 3rd class people.

THAT, IS THE REALITY, Grey.

Your CONSTANT denial of that reality**, will not change the truth of that circumstance.

**
i.e.
The influence of ISLAM upon the relationship, between moslems, and non-moslem communities.

Google;
islam, muslims to have a superior position

Google;
islam, establishes legal apartheid, muslim superior


+++


+++

Worldwide, we non-moslems believe that, if not perfect, our [Western] laws are equitable [just].

Why?

Because everyone, moslems and non-moslems, are equal before our laws.

But that is not the opinion of many, many, 'moslems' [living within Australia].

Moslems [e.g. within Australia] living within their moslem communities, inculcate, and teach each other, exactly what ISLAM teaches them,
...that the non-moslem community is 'oppressing' local moslems, by subjecting moslems to 'unjust' non-moslem laws.



And that is precisely what this woman [next], the sister of the convicted Jihadist, is expressing!

e.g.
"Five Australian jihadists convicted - Sister, 'its not fair' "
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/15/2819965.htm
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/02/australia-5-jihadists-motivated-by-intolerant-inflexible-religious-conviction-sentenced-to-prison-te.html


"..The sister for one of the convicted men said...that the sentence is not fair to her community or religion."

It was reported, that her brother liked to watch videos of moslems beheading non-moslems, and now he can't,
...for a very long time.

And it's just not fair!!

Australians laws are so unfair.


COMMENT;

This woman clearly identifies herself as a *moslem*.
And has clearly declared that *she believes*;

"...that the sentence is not fair to her community or religion."

As a moslem, this woman [along with all moslems] is effectively declaring;

'ISLAM gives us moslems the right to use violence to impose our value system upon you non-moslems.
Your non-moslem laws are illegal, and unjust.
And it is evil, and unjust, for you to use your laws to resist our Jihad, against you.'

And i assure you, imo, that that, is the mindset of all good moslems share.

+++



And all non-moslems, and all Australians should understand, that moslems do not believe in, they do not endorse, or promote, 'one law for all'.

Moslems want Sharia, because Sharia is an inequitable system of laws which unashamedly favours moslems.

Sharia establishes, and is, a legal apartheid, which favours moslems.

And the Jihad [violence against non-moslems], is the path towards a Sharia system, which is justified and endorsed by all good moslems.



+++


That is the problem, of ISLAM.

That, is the exact same problem which the Israelis [Jews, being non-moslems] face.

And again Grey,

Your UNRELENTING, AND CONSTANT denial of that reality,  of the influence of ISLAM upon the relationship, between moslems, and non-moslems, will not change the truth of that 'circumstance'.

i.e.
The truth that moslems and non-moslems can never live in peace together, as equals,
...because ISLAM will never, and cannot, ever allow that circumstance.



+++

CONFIRMING EVIDENCE, FROM THE MOUTHS OF GOOD MOSLEMS....

Attack on London 'inevitable'
April 19, 2004
"We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity."
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/19/1082326119414.html?from=storyrhs&oneclick=true


The ummah [the worldwide moslem community] are a closed community [in law, i.e. in moslem law].

To ISLAM [to good moslems!], those outside the ummah have the status of cattle.

i.e.
Those outside the ummah can live, while they are 'useful' to moslems, but they are not 'protected'.

You invite us to judge all muslims as religious fanatics. This is what you see as it's the way you are yourself Yadda. But most people are not fanatics, even if they are religious.

Grey wrote on May 30^th, 2011 at 12:38pm:

You invite us to judge all muslims as religious fanatics. This is what you see as it's the way you are yourself Yadda. But most people are not fanatics, even if they are religious.

Come on then Grey, tell us all, how do moslems define themselves ???

And in that definition, are moslems being candid, and sincere with you, with us all ???



So, how do you define who is a 'moslem' Grey ???






I think that this issue [of who is a real moslem] is simple.

Because ISLAM itself defines who a moslem is.

And ISLAM itself, ALSO, defines what the 'religious' obligations are, for anyone who self declares;

"I am a moslem."



+++


Who is a moslem ???

A moslem is a person who declares;

"I am a moslem. Allah is my God, and Mohammed is his prophet."



Who is a moslem ???

A moslem, is a person who chooses to embrace a philosophy [ISLAM] which tells moslems that it is 'lawful' for moslems, to kill those who do not believe, as they believe.




+++



ISLAMIC law is very specific about who is a moslem....

"Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Prophet said: "The bare essence of Islam and the basics of the religion are three [acts], upon which Islam has been established. Whoever leaves one of them becomes an unbeliever and his blood may legally be spilled. [The acts are:] Testifying that there is no God except Allah, the obligatory prayers, and the fast of Ramadan."...."
fiqhussunnah/fus3_50.html#3.110

n.b. "Whoever......becomes an unbeliever.....his blood may legally be spilled."




+++





Grey,

IMO,
You are a raving denier of truth.

Because a truth does not 'nicely' fit in with your worldview, you refuse to acknowledge that truth.

What other explanation is there for your 'brick wall' approach to who is a real 'moslem'  ????


Dictionary;
raving = = wild or incoherent talk.iGrey,


Two images....

And a question for you Grey.

Which image [below] more nearly represents, the 'real' ISLAM ???

Is it IMAGE #1 or is it IMAGE #2 ???

"the right to choose what to wear"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1302598375/168#168




IMAGE #1
http://images.sp@m.com/polls/000799261/polls_behead_those_who_insult_islam_london_5534_84585_answer_2_xlarge.jpeg




IMAGE #2
http://www.jihadwatch.org/London_Bus_2.jpgi

I always treat people as I find them Yadda. Regardless of colour or creed. All religions being basically daft you can find all kinds in disparaging thoughts in their scriptures, I wouldn't take too much notice if I was you.

Grey wrote on May 30^th, 2011 at 1:21pm:

I always treat people as I find them Yadda. Regardless of colour or creed. All religions being basically daft you can find all kinds in disparaging thoughts in their scriptures, I wouldn't take too much notice if I was you.

And there you go, yet again Grey.

Refusing to face the issue of ISLAM.

Refusing to face the truth of what ISLAM encourages in the world.

e.g.
"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260



Grey,

IMO, you are a person who has no moral compass.

When a 'hard decision' comes your way [something which challenges the way you perceive the world], you are prepared to bend the rules, OR, you just 'avert your eyes', and look the other way.

IMO, the reason that so many people in the world, do die at the hands of moslems, is because of people like yourself.

Because people just like you, refuse to take a moral stand, if it will 'offend' someone.




Always 'tolerance', and never judgement [of intent],
....is that what liberty and 'rights', 'encapsulates' for you Grey???


"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."
Karl Popper


"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil."
Thomas Mann

Grey wrote on May 28^th, 2011 at 12:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 28th, 2011 at 10:41am: What's there to laugh about Belgarion? A nuclear war in the Middle East that would involve the whole world? I don't find that funny & it will happen unless we solve the problem of Israel - a nuclear armed country that is too small to defend, surrounded by 100s of millions of Arabs who hate it. There's no REAL problem with Arabs getting along with Jews, it's just a mythology. That's why Israel built the wall, it gives a physical reality to myth making. That's why, like the Berlin wall, it must come down and the 'impossibility' of a one party solution must be challenged because as long as Palestine is divided into the rich areas and the bantustans the mythology remains undefeated and there will be no peace.

10,000 missiles and mortar shells exploding in Israeli towns is a bit more than just a myth.
Hamas written charter of hate for Israel is more than a myth.
The four wars to the knife for Israel fighting for it's existence in 1948, 1956, 1967 & 1973 are not myths.
Exploding school buses and seaside cafeterias before the walls went up also were not myths.

Yadda wrote on May 30^th, 2011 at 1:36pm:

IMO, the reason that so many people in the world, do die at the hands of moslems, is because of people like yourself. Because people just like you, refuse to take a moral stand, if it will 'offend' someone.

THE TRUTH IS THAT...

All persons who self declare as being moslems, are ISLAMISTS [even if they will deny it].

The truth is, that there can never be, a 'moderate' moslem.

The supposed existence of even one 'moderate' moslem is a myth.


Why so ???

BECAUSE, ISLAM itself defines what it is, to be a moslem.

And, there cannot be a 'moderate' moslem,

....because there is not, and there can never be, a moderate ISLAM.



+++


And, why is there a problem with ISLAM today ???



Because so many people today refuse to associate what ISLAM is, with people who call themselves, moslems.

You [like so many others] refuse to associate the evil which ISLAM clearly promotes as a philosophy, with those who self declare....

"I am a moslem."



It is the silence, and the lack of criticism of those who self-declare as moslems [the general lack of criticism of what all moslems choose to embrace], which perpetuates the actions, the violence of moslems in the world.




+++



Who is a moslem ???

A moslem is a person who declares;

"I am a moslem. Allah is my God, and Mohammed is his prophet."

Who is a moslem ???

A moslem, is a person who chooses to embrace a philosophy [ISLAM] which tells moslems that it is 'lawful' for moslems, to kill those who do not believe, as they believe.i

Yadda wrote on May 30^th, 2011 at 2:59pm:

Yadda wrote on May 30th, 2011 at 1:36pm: IMO, the reason that so many people in the world, do die at the hands of moslems, is because of people like yourself. Because people just like you, refuse to take a moral stand, if it will 'offend' someone. THE TRUTH IS THAT... All persons who self declare as being moslems, are ISLAMISTS [even if they will deny it]. The truth is, that there can never be, a 'moderate' moslem. The supposed existence of even one 'moderate' moslem is a myth. Why so ??? BECAUSE, ISLAM itself defines what it is, to be a moslem. And, there cannot be a 'moderate' moslem, ....because there is not, and there can never be, a moderate ISLAM. +++ And, why is there a problem with ISLAM today ??? Because so many people today refuse to associate what ISLAM is, with people who call themselves, moslems. You [like so many others] refuse to associate the evil which ISLAM clearly promotes as a philosophy, with those who self declare.... "I am a moslem." It is the silence, and the lack of criticism of those who self-declare as moslems [the general lack of criticism of what all moslems choose to embrace], which perpetuates the actions, the violence of moslems in the world. +++ Who is a moslem ??? A moslem is a person who declares; "I am a moslem. Allah is my God, and Mohammed is his prophet." Who is a moslem ??? A moslem, is a person who chooses to embrace a philosophy [ISLAM] which tells moslems that it is 'lawful' for moslems, to kill those who do not believe, as they believe.

Yadda, that's like saying ALL Christians feel the same way about gays that Fred Phelps does..

What's that quote again???.....Oh yeah

"All Labradors are dogs, but not all dogs are Labradors"

You should NOT judge all members of any group (religious, racial or social) by the actions and attitudes of a small section of that group..

Not ALL men are drunken thugs or rapists.
Not ALL women are gold digging trollops
Not ALL police are corrupt
Not ALL muslims are fanatic terrorists
Etc etc etc

gizmo_2655 wrote on May 30^th, 2011 at 3:14pm:

Yadda, that's like saying ALL Christians feel the same way about gays that Fred Phelps does.. What's that quote again???.....Oh yeah "All Labradors are dogs, but not all dogs are Labradors" You should NOT judge all members of any group (religious, racial or social) by the actions and attitudes of a small section of that group.. Not ALL men are drunken thugs or rapists. Not ALL women are gold digging trollops Not ALL police are corrupt Not ALL muslims are fanatic terrorists Etc etc etc

gizmo,


EVIDENCE THAT YOU ARE MISTAKEN...

Attack on London 'inevitable'
April 19, 2004
"We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, innocents and non-innocents. Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And the life of an unbeliever has no value. It has no sanctity." [Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad]
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/19/1082326119414.html?from=storyrhs&oneclick=true



NOT all, moslems believe, or accept the sentiments above, expressed by Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad.

Only those moslems who are guided by ISLAM's foundation texts, the Koran and the Hadith.

And a person can only be a moslem [according to ISLAM], IF, a moslem is guided by ISLAM's foundation texts, the Koran and the Hadith.

Ergo.....

Duh!

Not all terrorists are moslems,
....but all good moslems are Jihadists,
....and all good moslems understand that all good moslems, TO BE MOSLEMS, must have a burning hatred for 'unbelievers'.


+++




gizmo,

You speak as though you were a person who does not understand what ISLAM promotes.




THE WORDS OF A MAN WHO UNDERSTANDS WHAT ISLAM IS....

"....Battle, animosity, and hatred -- directed from the Muslim to the infidel -- is the foundation of our religion.."
OBL


"....And we consider this [...warfare against infidels] a justice and kindness to them...."
OBL


ISLAM's way of achieving 'peace' explained - according to Osama Bin Laden...
OR,
Advice to real moslems, on how to be 'rightly guided' in your worldly relationships with infidels.

err,
"Fight and kill the infidels, until they submit."



November 10, 2008
Raymond Ibrahim: "Islam's Doctrines of Deception"

Quote:

"As to the relationship between Muslims and infidels, this is summarized by the Most High's Word: ‘We renounce you. Enmity and hate shall forever reign between us -- till you believe in Allah alone’ [Koran 60:4]. So there is an enmity, evidenced by fierce hostility from the heart. And this fierce hostility -- that is, battle -- ceases only if the infidel submits to the authority of Islam, or if his blood is forbidden from being shed [i.e., a dhimmi], or if Muslims are at that point in time weak and incapable [i.e., taqiyya]. But if the hate at any time extinguishes from the heart, this is great apostasy!  Such, then, is the basis and foundation of the relationship between the infidel and the Muslim. Battle, animosity, and hatred -- directed from the Muslim to the infidel -- is the foundation of our religion. And we consider this a justice and kindness to them" (from The Al Qaeda Reader). .....It bears repeating that this hostile world view is well supported by all of Islam’s schools of jurisprudence."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/11/raymond-ibrahim-islams-doctrines-of-deception.html



n.b. the words....

".....But if the hate at any time extinguishes from the heart, this is great apostasy!"

Translation....

If the hatred for non-moslems, at any time extinguishes from the heart of a moslem, "this is great apostasy!"

i.e.
You can only be a REAL moslem, if you have a burning HATRED for non-moslems.

COMMENT....
This sounds very Koran & Hadith based ['legitimate' moslem doctrine] to me.

No Yadda, that makes the London bombers 'Extremists'....There are millions of muslims, but only a few thousand muslim EXTREMISTS..

It's the same as the christian EXTREMISTS who blow up abortion clinics and shoot doctors..

They are normal, devout, members of a religion, who have fallen under the influence of a charismatic and fanatical leader...they are the exception, rather than the rule..

Islam is a religion that has NO central authority...each iman is, basicically, a law unto himself...there is no  equivalent  to the catholic Pope or the Anglican Communion council, etc..So there is no person or group to control or reign in the clergy...

If an Iman happens to believe that possums are messengers of Satan, he can open a Jihad and command his followers to kill possums...and there is NO ONE to tell his followers not to..

gizmo_2655 wrote on May 30^th, 2011 at 4:26pm:

No Yadda, that makes the London bombers 'Extremists'....There are millions of muslims, but only a few thousand muslim EXTREMISTS.. It's the same as the christian EXTREMISTS who blow up abortion clinics and shoot doctors.. They are normal, devout, members of a religion, who have fallen under the influence of a charismatic and fanatical leader...they are the exception, rather than the rule.. Islam is a religion that has NO central authority...each iman is, basicically, a law unto himself...there is no  equivalent  to the catholic Pope or the Anglican Communion council, etc..So there is no person or group to control or reign in the clergy... If an Iman happens to believe that possums are messengers of Satan, he can open a Jihad and command his followers to kill possums...and there is NO ONE to tell his followers not to..

gizmo,

ISLAM is pure evil.

After so much evidence has been presented to that fact, in this forum, why do you even doubt that fact ???

If you have ANY doubt about that, then please study the Koran, study the Hadith.

I provide these links, to online Koran, and Hadith texts;

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/





gizmo,

If some moslems are good people, and if they have grown up within ISLAM, and know ISLAM's texts and ISLAM's doctrines, of hatred, then,

....WHY DO THOSE SUPPOSEDLY 'GOOD' PEOPLE, WHO 'SELF DECLARE' AS MOSLEMS, WHY DO THEY CHOOSE TO ASSOCIATE THEMSELVES WITH ISLAM ????

Moslems, by associating themselves with ISLAM [which is a very evil philosophy, imo], thereby, are choosing to associate themselves with the evil, which ISLAM is.

What is their excuse gizmo ???




+++

EVIDENCE WHICH SUPPORTS THE CLAIMS I MAKE, ABOVE.



A REALITY REVEALED, WHICH MANY PEOPLE IN THE WEST DO NOT WANT TO CONFRONT....


Quote:

Here, for example, are two very illuminating passages from the canonical Life of Mohammed by Ibn Ishaq, as translated by A. Guillaume, and a third passage, from the earliest known Muslim historian. Ishaq: 204 - "'Men, do you know what you are pledging yourselves to in swearing allegiance to this man [Muhammad]?' 'Yes. In swearing allegiance to him we are pledging to wage war against all mankind.'" Ishaq:231 - "Muslims are one ummah (community) to the exclusion of all men. Believers are friends of one another to the exclusion of all outsiders." And here is Al-Tabari, a very early Muslim historian, in book 9, chapter or section 69, reporting words that Muslims believe to have been said by Mohammed himself - "Killing infidels is a small matter to us". These texts are not fossils from a distant past. They are not dead letters. They are still 'live' and carry tremendous weight in the imagination and practice of many Muslims around the world. ...DDA

Google it.

n.b.
"Killing infidels is a small matter to us"



+++



"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."  
Koran 9.123

"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76

"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods;....they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:..."
Koran 9.111

As personified in the above posts of Chick and Yadda, right wing thinking comes in the box marked absolute certainty. And Chicken, it must be obvious even to you that Jews have been mean to Arabs as well. What are you about here? You want Arabs and Jews to murder each other til the end of time?  Germans and Brits get along okay, hell even Germans and Israelis, get rid of the negative waves man :-)

Yadda I DO recognise Islamofascism and I don't like it or them. Any Talibs getting to check out the virgins is alright with me.

Quote:

If you have ANY doubt about that, then please study the Koran, study the Hadith. ....WHY DO THOSE SUPPOSEDLY 'GOOD' PEOPLE, WHO 'SELF DECLARE' AS MOSLEMS, WHY DO THEY CHOOSE TO ASSOCIATE THEMSELVES WITH ISLAM ???? Moslems, by associating themselves with ISLAM [which is a very evil philosophy, imo], thereby, are choosing to associate themselves with the evil, which ISLAM is. What is their excuse gizmo ???

I HAVE studied the Koran and the Hadith...They are basically no different to the Old and New Testaments....All three contain instructions rulings and lessons that are time and place specific...

Not everyone following the three monotheist religions uses the 'literal word of God' definition.


And the reason good people, who 'self-declare as muslims' associate themselves with Islam is because THAT is what 'muslim' MEANS.....A 'follower of Islam'

You might as well ask 'why do good hindus associate with the Hindu religion'......because you can't NOT associate with it, and still BE one..

It's impossible to a Christian Muslim, or a Muslim Hindu ..

The term 'Muslim' MEANS literally 'Follower of Islam'..

Muslim isn't a racial designation, or gender designation....it's a religious designation..

Grey wrote on May 30^th, 2011 at 4:55pm:

As personified in the above posts of Chick and Yadda, right wing thinking comes in the box marked absolute certainty. And Chicken, it must be obvious even to you that Jews have been mean to Arabs as well. What are you about here? You want Arabs and Jews to murder each other til the end of time?  Germans and Brits get along okay, hell even Germans and Israelis, get rid of the negative waves man :-)

One doesn't need to have right wing thinking to read a history book to obtain certainty about some matters.
Those occurrances I stated were not myths.
I would suggest that Israel has been mean to some Arabs.
And given what has gone before, I don't blame them one bit.
And one does not need to have right wing thinking to understand what 4 wars occurring in a country can do for a peoples thinking.
Not 4 wars overseas on the other side of the world, but 4 wars in your street, your town, where you work etc.
Israel has been on a war footing since 1948, unlike any other country on the planet.
The Arabs that do live in Israel enjoy the highest standard of living in the Middle East.
There are 14 Arabs in the Israeli Parliament (Knisset), 1 Arab of the rank of General currently serving.
But yes, they are usually very 'mean' to people trying to kill them funnily enough.

gizmo_2655 wrote on May 30^th, 2011 at 5:15pm:

Quote: If you have ANY doubt about that, then please study the Koran, study the Hadith. ....WHY DO THOSE SUPPOSEDLY 'GOOD' PEOPLE, WHO 'SELF DECLARE' AS MOSLEMS, WHY DO THEY CHOOSE TO ASSOCIATE THEMSELVES WITH ISLAM ???? Moslems, by associating themselves with ISLAM [which is a very evil philosophy, imo], thereby, are choosing to associate themselves with the evil, which ISLAM is. What is their excuse gizmo ??? I HAVE studied the Koran and the Hadith...They are basically no different to the Old and New Testaments....All three contain instructions rulings and lessons that are time and place specific... Not everyone following the three monotheist religions uses the 'literal word of God' definition. And the reason good people, who 'self-declare as muslims' associate themselves with Islam is because THAT is what 'muslim' MEANS.....A 'follower of Islam' You might as well ask 'why do good hindus associate with the Hindu religion'......because you can't NOT associate with it, and still BE one.. It's impossible to a Christian Muslim, or a Muslim Hindu .. The term 'Muslim' MEANS literally 'Follower of Islam'.. Muslim isn't a racial designation, or gender designation....it's a religious designation..

Exactly so gizmo.

And those who refer to themselves, as 'moslems', choose, to associate themselves, with what ISLAM promotes and encourages in the world.

To wit, ISLAMIC supremacism, which is being pursued by moslems through acts terror and violence, against those who want to have nothing to do with ISLAM.

And the choice of their own heart, is a witness against every moslem.

That they freely choose, to associate themselves with what ISLAM promotes and encourages.



THE RELIGION OF PEACE
http://thereligionofpeace.com/



+++



"It is our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Professor Dumbledore to Harry.
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets - J K Rowling

chicken_lipsforme wrote on May 31^st, 2011 at 7:12am:

Grey wrote on May 30th, 2011 at 4:55pm: As personified in the above posts of Chick and Yadda, right wing thinking comes in the box marked absolute certainty. And Chicken, it must be obvious even to you that Jews have been mean to Arabs as well. What are you about here? You want Arabs and Jews to murder each other til the end of time?  Germans and Brits get along okay, hell even Germans and Israelis, get rid of the negative waves man :-) One doesn't need to have right wing thinking to read a history book to obtain certainty about some matters. Those occurrances I stated were not myths. I would suggest that Israel has been mean to some Arabs. And given what has gone before, I don't blame them one bit. And one does not need to have right wing thinking to understand what 4 wars occurring in a country can do for a peoples thinking. Not 4 wars overseas on the other side of the world, but 4 wars in your street, your town, where you work etc. Israel has been on a war footing since 1948, unlike any other country on the planet. The Arabs that do live in Israel enjoy the highest standard of living in the Middle East. There are 14 Arabs in the Israeli Parliament (Knisset), 1 Arab of the rank of General currently serving. But yes, they are usually very 'mean' to people trying to kill them funnily enough.

LOL


Exactly so chicken.

And yet so, so, many people [worldwide] seem genuinely shocked!!, that Israelis refuse to lay down their rifles, and that Israelis refuse to 'embrace' the 'peace loving' local moslems [....who are clearly, seeking to either enslave or kill the Jewish people].

Those warmongering Jews!!!  grrrrr!!!
/sarc off



As soren posted recently somewhere on OzPol.....

"B@stard Jews, they shoot back!"        ;D    ;D    ;D

To depict such 'orcish' behaviour as belonging to Moslems only is surely wrong.
For any race who endeavours to incorporate itself via 'Breeding' rather than material gain/power - be it for Religion, Politics, Sport, etc.
Will always exhibit such behaviour.

Political Australians have a conservative, individual, empowered past - but their future is grubby, poor, pro-creative and en-mass ...just look at the Cronulla Riots (and you know Political Australia will degenerate further from just Chair Sniffing.).

In America - its the Artists who seem grubby, orcish, sexually orientated, lacking individualism, against material gain/power, etc, etc.

Every region has its representative of 'that' behaviour. In the Middle-East, its being exhibited by the Moslem fraction of Mono-Theism, while the Jews take on the role of Individual, conservative, material gain, Empowerment, etc.

So the Moslem behaviour is totally justified in the 'Religious' Middle-East. They are doing everything right as the 'Breeders'.
In Australia though, they behave quite different as it is a Politcal Breeding Pen. In South America - it is a Military/Conservation breeding pen, in Africa...

It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Jun 1^st, 2011 at 10:19am:

To depict such 'orcish' behaviour as belonging to Moslems only is surely wrong.

To associate moslems with orcs....

Yes, it is very, very wrong.
/sarc off


And 'get thee behind me' Jasignature,
.....for even putting such an idea in my head!



'Unbelievers' are filth, they are the sh!t under your shoes, and they are the allies of SATAN.
So kill them for little, powerless, Allah, and as a reward, i will send you to a bordello in the 'herafter', Allah's paradise, where you can deflower virgins for the rest of eternity. HONEST!




Listen to the words of President Ahmadinejad, here, and watch carefully for the army of orcs, err, i mean, moslems in the background...
YOUTUBE
"Farewell Israel"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-IwwfeLp4M

....images very reminiscent of the images of the orcs at Helms Deep - LOTR ???

Or am i just imagining that ???







Quote:

"....A new order will rise. We will drive the machine of war with the sword and the spear and the iron fists of the Orc. We have only to remove those who oppose us." Saruman

Naw, not in the least like ISLAM's rantings.
/sarc off



"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76

etc, etc, etc....

"Kill the humans. And the world will belong to us orcs!"i
It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Jun 1^st, 2011 at 10:19am:

...just look at the Cronulla Riots (and you know Political Australia will degenerate further from just Chair Sniffing.). In America - its the Artists who seem grubby, orcish, sexually orientated, lacking individualism, against material gain/power, etc, etc. Every region has its representative of 'that' behaviour. In the Middle-East, its being exhibited by the Moslem fraction of Mono-Theism, while the Jews take on the role of Individual, conservative, material gain, Empowerment, etc.

Yes it was very wrong of those Cronulla boys to be upset that moslems were assaulting non-moslems [including even a Life Saver bod] on the beaches, and calling non-moslem women on the beaches whores and sluts.

The Cronulla boys reacting to that ???

Outrageous!!

They were supposed to be cheek-turning Christians !!!








It_is_the_Darkness wrote on Jun 1^st, 2011 at 10:19am:

So the Moslem behaviour is totally justified in the 'Religious' Middle-East. They are doing everything right as the 'Breeders'. In Australia though, they behave quite different as it is a Politcal Breeding Pen. In South America - it is a Military/Conservation breeding pen, in Africa...

Yes, as Orwell determined....

"Two legs good, four legs bad."

And of course, it is the Jews who are the beasts on four legs.
/sarc off

Where to start?  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aumejrcEHs

Quote:

Yes it was very wrong of those Cronulla boys to be upset that moslems were assaulting non-moslems [including even a Life Saver bod] on the beaches, and calling non-moslem women on the beaches whores and sluts. The Cronulla boys reacting to that ??? Outrageous!! They were supposed to be cheek-turning Christians !!!

Well thats where you and those Moslem boys were wrong.
They were not Christians, let alone 'Religious' in any way.
They were people of the Beach and Cronulla - nothing more, nothing less. During the very latter stages of the Riots. Moslems attacked various Christian establishments. It only showed that the Moslems, in their panic, fell back onto a comfort zone of what they have known in regards to religious conflict - they tried to justify their own reality of the situation. The idea of having a confrontation with 5,000 guys who were not Religious in the slightest, was something totally 'Alien' to them (hence the panic) ...Austr-Alien ;)

...as for the 'Orc'. Its more a 'behaviour' ...state of being, than a 'race' - as the author meant.
You could say the Cronulla boys exhibited more (and quite a restrained) an orcish behaviour than the Moslems during the riots.

Yadda wrote on Jun 1^st, 2011 at 10:07am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on May 31st, 2011 at 7:12am: Grey wrote on May 30th, 2011 at 4:55pm: As personified in the above posts of Chick and Yadda, right wing thinking comes in the box marked absolute certainty. And Chicken, it must be obvious even to you that Jews have been mean to Arabs as well. What are you about here? You want Arabs and Jews to murder each other til the end of time?  Germans and Brits get along okay, hell even Germans and Israelis, get rid of the negative waves man :-) One doesn't need to have right wing thinking to read a history book to obtain certainty about some matters. Those occurrances I stated were not myths. I would suggest that Israel has been mean to some Arabs. And given what has gone before, I don't blame them one bit. And one does not need to have right wing thinking to understand what 4 wars occurring in a country can do for a peoples thinking. Not 4 wars overseas on the other side of the world, but 4 wars in your street, your town, where you work etc. Israel has been on a war footing since 1948, unlike any other country on the planet. The Arabs that do live in Israel enjoy the highest standard of living in the Middle East. There are 14 Arabs in the Israeli Parliament (Knisset), 1 Arab of the rank of General currently serving. But yes, they are usually very 'mean' to people trying to kill them funnily enough. LOL Exactly so chicken. And yet so, so, many people [worldwide] seem genuinely shocked!!, that Israelis refuse to lay down their rifles, and that Israelis refuse to 'embrace' the 'peace loving' local moslems [....who are clearly, seeking to either enslave or kill the Jewish people]. Those warmongering Jews!!!  grrrrr!!! /sarc off As soren posted recently somewhere on OzPol..... "B@stard Jews, they shoot back!"        ;D    ;D    ;D

Yes, how true.
Some forget that the good old days are gone when the Jews used to line up naked in the snow and shuffle silently towards the camp shower blocks for their anteseptic sweet smelling bath of Zyklon B whilst the Grand Mufti of Jeruselem was clapping his hands together with glee at the thought.
There just not interested in taking one for the team anymore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lixYEZ9M_dU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sK_15dHxHk&feature=related

Little fellers doing a lot of slapping considering the big feller owns his arse.  ;)

Grey wrote on Jun 4^th, 2011 at 2:52am:

Little fellers doing a lot of slapping considering the big feller owns his arse.  ;)

Oh! I thought the 'current truth' was that the little feller's churchy pals owned the big feller's arse together with all his worldy goods.  No longer?

Can't find Palestine on the globe.
Couldn't find them listed as a sovereign state either. Do they have a government? They have a Prime Minister & a President, but of what?


Is it like that fictional country Vulgaria that's in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states
http://www.studentsoftheworld.info/menu_infopays.html


I was able to find a proposal for some land to be "acquired" by terrorists, but the land is still uncertain.

Or is it that Israel have invaded a country that is yet to exist?

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0776421.html
http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0776421.html


Maybe they are still listed under their other name West bank and Gaza Strip.
Will they get a birth at the UNited Nations? http://www.un.org/en/members/
And will they complete at the Olympics?

Well, one thing Netanyahu said is absolutely certain... "History will not give the Jewish people another chance".

Soren wrote on Jun 4^th, 2011 at 8:43am:

Grey wrote on Jun 4th, 2011 at 2:52am: Little fellers doing a lot of slapping considering the big feller owns his arse.  ;) Oh! I thought the 'current truth' was that the little feller's churchy pals owned the big feller's arse together with all his worldy goods.  No longer?

Noice. :D :D :D

Just heard on the news this morning -

the Jews killed another 18 innocent peaceful protesters at a border in Israel.

Shame

Bobby. wrote on Jun 6^th, 2011 at 9:09am:

Just heard on the news this morning - the Jews killed another 18 innocent peaceful protesters at a border in Israel. Shame

Yairs... Guess Bashir needs all the diversion he can get after his thugs bashed a 13 year old boy to death.

Soren wrote on Jun 4^th, 2011 at 8:43am:

Grey wrote on Jun 4th, 2011 at 2:52am: Little fellers doing a lot of slapping considering the big feller owns his arse.  ;) Oh! I thought the 'current truth' was that the little feller's churchy pals owned the big feller's arse together with all his worldy goods.  No longer?

Yes and Netanyahu cynically excised the land swap point from Obama's speech for the benefit of the Congressional religious nutjobs.

It could be that the Arab spring is taking an unexpected turn as Palestinians swarm the borders with Israel. What will Israel do if all the Palestinian refugees wanting to return home simply do just that? Shoot them all? Who will be the despot then?

http://gimmetruth.wordpress.com/2011/05/15/palestinians-rush-israel-border-on-nakba-day/
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/06/20116168535227628.html

All nations are entitled to protect their borders, even the Jewish state.
Worry about the science fiction if it ever becomes science fact.
And most of those so called 'Palestinians' who lived in the British Mandate left their homes in 1948 are either dead or in a nursing home.
And they are not carrrying molotov cocktails cutting through razor wire fences to get their old houses back.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 9:05am:

All nations are entitled to protect their borders, even the Jewish state.

It's been a convention that states can protect themselves from attack. But what constitutes an attack? There have been mass invasions by civilians fleeing from war principally  in Asia and Africa but probably all continents. How would the massacre of unarmed civilians crossing a border simply to get home go down? The last time this happened was in Palestine I believe. And the Jewish claim to Palestine as an ancestral home was rather more tenuous than that of Palestinians in Lebanase camps.  

Grey wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 9:16am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jun 17th, 2011 at 9:05am: All nations are entitled to protect their borders, even the Jewish state. It's been a convention that states can protect themselves from attack. But what constitutes an attack? There have been mass invasions by civilians fleeing from war principally  in Asia and Africa but probably all continents. How would the massacre of unarmed civilians crossing a border simply to get home go down? The last time this happened was in Palestine I believe. And the Jewish claim to Palestine as an ancestral home was rather more tenuous than that of Palestinians in Lebanase camps.

But there is no contention from States who are protecting their borders though is there?
Maybe from extremist left wing organisations who think borders are a waste of time, but not from governments.
And looking at the photos of those people jumping the razor wire, they were neither unarmed, nor were they 'trying to get home'.
They weren't even alive in 1948, and if you asked them which house belonged to their grandfather, would they even know?
Blind Freddy can clearly see those punks were only there to cause trouble, and they got what they came for.

Grey wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:57am:

It could be that the Arab spring is taking an unexpected turn as Palestinians swarm the borders with Israel. What will Israel do if all the Palestinian refugees wanting to return home simply do just that? Shoot them all? Who will be the despot then? http://gimmetruth.wordpress.com/2011/05/15/palestinians-rush-israel-border-on-nakba-day/ http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/06/20116168535227628.html

The 'Palestinians' intent, is not to, 'return home'.

Their often stated intent is to destroy Israel, and to slaughter the Jewish people.


Google;
palestinians teach children slaughter jews




"What motivates people to commit violence"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1300822606/17#17

Quote:

Abu, Moslem armies have attacked Israel in 1948, 1956, 1967 & 1973, trying to destroy the state of Israel. On every occasion that they tried, they failed, miserably. And the ISLAMISTS of the region, continue their war of attrition against the state of Israel, even to this day. Abu, Using the the very same moral justification which moslems themselves use [i.e. that using violence to seize the land, and property, of other is OK], isn't Israel, aren't the Jewish people, using the exact same moral justification as what moslems use, to secure, and hold, their small plot of land on the Mediterranean,  ??? Except, in the case of the Jewish people and Israel, the Jewish people and Israel have an extra 'component', in their justification to defend their nation, in that the Jewish people are merely defending what was, THEIR ANCIENT HOMELAND? And that the Jewish people have merely seized back, land which was taken from them in the past [by the use of force] by others [including moslem hoards] ???

Google;
conquered lands belong to muslims in perpetuity


Moslems are moral hypocrites.

And imo, apologists for moslems are apologists for wanna-be murderers.

And imo, people who want to pander to moslem 'sensibilities', have a broken moral compass.

IMO, if such people want to pander to moslem 'sensibilities', they should 1st travel to, and then try to express their own rights in an ISLAMIC paradise, some place like Iran or Saudi Arabia.



Google;
iran rape in prison


Google;
saudi maid abuse


"Female activist calls for legalizing sex slavery"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1307539638/0#0
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/06/raymond-ibrahim-kuwaiti-female-activist-advocates-islamic-sex-slavery.html

Grey wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 9:16am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jun 17th, 2011 at 9:05am: All nations are entitled to protect their borders, even the Jewish state. And the Jewish claim to Palestine as an ancestral home was rather more tenuous than that of Palestinians in Lebanase camps.

Given the history going back 2000 years that the Jewish people have with the region clearly shows otherwise.
And the 'Palestinian' people was not even a term even remotely thought of before 1900AD, as they were in the Ottoman Empire going back to Roman times.
The Jews fought three wars for independance from Rome in Judean and the Sumarian region during the second century AD.
This is a matter of historical record, so to suggest that the Jews links to the holy land are tenuous is quite incorrect.

Grey wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 8:57am:

It could be that the Arab spring is taking an unexpected turn as Palestinians swarm the borders with Israel. What will Israel do if all the Palestinian refugees wanting to return home....

Prior to WWI, 'Palestine' was merely a small administered territory, a small part of the Ottoman empire.

It had no formal existence as a national homeland.






A 'Palestinian' people???
Were there ever a 'Palestinian' people, in recent history???

If so;
Who was the king or president of pre-1948 Palestine?
What was the Palestinian currency?
What did the Palestinians trade?
What was the capital of Palestine?
Did they have a parliament and government?
What were its boundaries?
Who were its historic allies?
Who were its historic enemies?
What wars did it fight?
Where are the artefacts and which museums house these artefacts?
Who were its great statesmen?

Was one of them Yasser Arafat???
The Nobel peace prize winner???

Google
Arafat died a billionaire

...while his adoring people, live in tents, and ghettos.

Q.
Why do the 'Palestinian' people still exist today, as refugees?

Q.
Why can't the poor 'Palestinian' refugees be absorbed into surrounding moslems states [especially Jordan!] ???

A.
Because the poor 'Palestinian' refugees [SO LONG AS THEY EXIST] are a convenient propaganda weapon, with which to 'stir up' world opinion against Israel, on the world media stage.



The 'Palestinian' people???

The term 'Palestinian' people, is a falsehood, and a stinking crock, which the people of the world, to their shame, have embraced.



But the ethnic 'Palestinians' do have a state, and a homeland, it is called JORDAN.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 11:27am:

Grey wrote on Jun 17th, 2011 at 9:16am: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jun 17th, 2011 at 9:05am: All nations are entitled to protect their borders, even the Jewish state. And the Jewish claim to Palestine as an ancestral home was rather more tenuous than that of Palestinians in Lebanase camps.   Given the history going back 2000 years that the Jewish people have with the region clearly shows otherwise. And the 'Palestinian' people was not even a term even remotely thought of before 1900AD, as they were in the Ottoman Empire going back to Roman times. The Jews fought three wars for independance from Rome in Judean and the Sumarian region during the second century AD. This is a matter of historical record, so to suggest that the Jews links to the holy land are tenuous is quite incorrect.

For the record I'm not in favour of driving Israelies into the sea, though neither am I uncritical. But what i'm about here is being the Devils advocate.

Palestina is the name the Romans gave the region, but what's in a name?  Now can a religion have claims on land or is it a peoples claim? The DNA evidence, though contested ground, at the least indicates a middle eastern connection that has been considerably watered down, especially through the female lineage of the Ashkenazi; who in the early part of the 20thC comprised 97% of world Jewry.

It's quite telling I think that Zionists, surely in an effort to bolster up claims, actually took the step of banning the Yiddish language and forced Israels Jewish population to relearn ancient Hebrew. As an aside I think that was a tragic mistake that has done much to add to the state of conflict. Language is the depository of a peoples knowledges and experiences. Erasing 2000 years of history and putting a people back in a barbarous past is not a good idea.

Land claims that go back 2000 years MUST be considered tenuous. Do Italians have greater claim to England than the English? Or is it the Scots or Welsh who have the greater claim? Such questions are nothing but theoretical silliness.

No Jewish claims to Palestine are firmly rooted in the events of the 20thC. The millions of Jews who live there have been ill led by the most violent and racist of idealogues, people like Jabotinsky and Ben Gurion, but that is not their fault. Mostly they were driven by circumstance and the ordinary desire of reasonable people to be able to live in peace and security and they deserve to have and hang on to that... but so do the Palestinians.  

Grey wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 1:14pm:

For the record I'm not in favour of driving Israelies into the sea, though neither am I uncritical. But what i'm about here is being the Devils advocate. Palestina is the name the Romans gave the region, but what's in a name?  Now can a religion have claims on land or is it a peoples claim? The DNA evidence, though contested ground, at the least indicates a middle eastern connection that has been considerably watered down, especially through the female lineage of the Ashkenazi; who in the early part of the 20thC comprised 97% of world Jewry. It's quite telling I think that Zionists, surely in an effort to bolster up claims, actually took the step of banning the Yiddish language and forced Israels Jewish population to relearn ancient Hebrew. As an aside I think that was a tragic mistake that has done much to add to the state of conflict. Language is the depository of a peoples knowledges and experiences. Erasing 2000 years of history and putting a people back in a barbarous past is not a good idea. Land claims that go back 2000 years MUST be considered tenuous. Do Italians have greater claim to England than the English? Or is it the Scots or Welsh who have the greater claim? Such questions are nothing but theoretical silliness. No Jewish claims to Palestine are firmly rooted in the events of the 20thC. The millions of Jews who live there have been ill led by the most violent and racist of idealogues, people like Jabotinsky and Ben Gurion, but that is not their fault. Mostly they were driven by circumstance and the ordinary desire of reasonable people to be able to live in peace and security and they deserve to have and hang on to that... but so do the Palestinians.

Exactly so.

Grey wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 1:14pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jun 17th, 2011 at 11:27am: Grey wrote on Jun 17th, 2011 at 9:16am: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jun 17th, 2011 at 9:05am: All nations are entitled to protect their borders, even the Jewish state. And the Jewish claim to Palestine as an ancestral home was rather more tenuous than that of Palestinians in Lebanase camps.   Given the history going back 2000 years that the Jewish people have with the region clearly shows otherwise. And the 'Palestinian' people was not even a term even remotely thought of before 1900AD, as they were in the Ottoman Empire going back to Roman times. The Jews fought three wars for independance from Rome in Judean and the Sumarian region during the second century AD. This is a matter of historical record, so to suggest that the Jews links to the holy land are tenuous is quite incorrect. For the record I'm not in favour of driving Israelies into the sea, though neither am I uncritical. But what i'm about here is being the Devils advocate. Palestina is the name the Romans gave the region, but what's in a name?  Now can a religion have claims on land or is it a peoples claim? Land claims that go back 2000 years MUST be considered tenuous. Do Italians have greater claim to England than the English? Or is it the Scots or Welsh who have the greater claim? Such questions are nothing but theoretical silliness. No Jewish claims to Palestine are firmly rooted in the events of the 20thC. The millions of Jews who live there have been ill led by the most violent and racist of idealogues, people like Jabotinsky and Ben Gurion, but that is not their fault. Mostly they were driven by circumstance and the ordinary desire of reasonable people to be able to live in peace and security and they deserve to have and hang on to that... but so do the Palestinians.

Palestina was but one of the regions, however there already was a Judea and Sumaria in the area as well.
The big difference between any potential claims made in England by Italians or Scotsman is markedly different to those made by Israel.
Why, because the Jews have always lived in the region.
Sure, most were driven away but many still remained.
The reality is Israel is going no-where.
The genie is out of the bottle and won't go back in for anyone.
And until the 'Palestinians' can learn to substitute diplomacy for peace, any dreams they have of Israel parting with any land will always remain a dream.
Because Israel knows full well about the record appeasement has had in history.
Only a few weeks ago a bright canary yellow schoolbus was hit with a Cornet anti tank missile fired from Gaza killing one 16 year old schoolkid and wounding others.
Would any country on the planet in the 21st century be inclined to negotiate large parcels of their land away in the hope that such acts of terrorism will stop?
I don't think so.

Grey wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 1:14pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jun 17th, 2011 at 11:27am: Grey wrote on Jun 17th, 2011 at 9:16am: chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jun 17th, 2011 at 9:05am: All nations are entitled to protect their borders, even the Jewish state. And the Jewish claim to Palestine as an ancestral home was rather more tenuous than that of Palestinians in Lebanase camps.   Given the history going back 2000 years that the Jewish people have with the region clearly shows otherwise. And the 'Palestinian' people was not even a term even remotely thought of before 1900AD, as they were in the Ottoman Empire going back to Roman times. The Jews fought three wars for independance from Rome in Judean and the Sumarian region during the second century AD. This is a matter of historical record, so to suggest that the Jews links to the holy land are tenuous is quite incorrect. For the record I'm not in favour of driving Israelies into the sea, though neither am I uncritical. But what i'm about here is being the Devils advocate. Palestina is the name the Romans gave the region, but what's in a name?  Now can a religion have claims on land or is it a peoples claim? The DNA evidence, though contested ground, at the least indicates a middle eastern connection that has been considerably watered down, especially through the female lineage of the Ashkenazi; who in the early part of the 20thC comprised 97% of world Jewry. It's quite telling I think that Zionists, surely in an effort to bolster up claims, actually took the step of banning the Yiddish language and forced Israels Jewish population to relearn ancient Hebrew. As an aside I think that was a tragic mistake that has done much to add to the state of conflict. Language is the depository of a peoples knowledges and experiences. Erasing 2000 years of history and putting a people back in a barbarous past is not a good idea. Land claims that go back 2000 years MUST be considered tenuous. Do Italians have greater claim to England than the English? Or is it the Scots or Welsh who have the greater claim? Such questions are nothing but theoretical silliness. No Jewish claims to Palestine are firmly rooted in the events of the 20thC. The millions of Jews who live there have been ill led by the most violent and racist of idealogues, people like Jabotinsky and Ben Gurion, but that is not their fault. Mostly they were driven by circumstance and the ordinary desire of reasonable people to be able to live in peace and security and they deserve to have and hang on to that... but so do the Palestinians.

And do you know what I find so silly about this whole situation???
Various 'Palestinian' groups are calling for a 2-state solution....
The Arab people of that area could have HAD a state all their own, 60+ years ago.....All they had to do was nod or say 'yes'..

Think about it, no refugee camps, no displaced persons, no security wall, no airstrikes...nothing...

But no, they choose to listen to the ideas of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem....

So the fault for the current situation lays solely at the feet of 'Palestinians' themselves...

Quote:

Palestina was but one of the regions, however there already was a Judea and Sumaria in the area as well. The big difference between any potential claims made in England by Italians or Scotsman is markedly different to those made by Israel. Why, because the Jews have always lived in the region. Sure, most were driven away but many still remained.

The people of the region are the people of the region. Disregarding any gentic dilution the difference between Palestinians and Israelis/Jews is simply one of religion. Perhaps a better analogy would be the claiming of Nottinghamshire by Baptist descendants of the Mayflower  ;D


Quote:

Only a few weeks ago a bright canary yellow schoolbus was hit with a Cornet anti tank missile fired from Gaza killing one 16 year old schoolkid and wounding others. Would any country on the planet in the 21st century be inclined to negotiate large parcels of their land away in the hope that such acts of terrorism will stop?

The propaganda of tit for tat violence is pointless. I don't think the solution IS a 2 party state. That would simply extend the conflict forever. Something along the lines of a federal system with Jerusalem as the Capital territory would be far more promising.

Quote:

But no, they choose to listen to the ideas of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem....

Grand Mufti nonsense. The guy only got publicity post 9/11 and even then mostly internet nonsense. The guy was a minor bit player in regards to the Third Reich and he was a minor bit player in regards to the first Arab/Israeli War.

There were a couple of attempts (during the 60s) to talk up the guy's role in history and they were dismissed by serious historians.

The post 9/11 attempts to make him out more influential than he actually was is pure historical revisionism.

Israel may have to destroy Europe if its existence is threatened. 8-)

I think the Pallys & the Jews should kiss each other's bums & make up.
I am sick of hearing about all their problems.

Grey wrote on Jun 17^th, 2011 at 9:52pm:

Quote: Palestina was but one of the regions, however there already was a Judea and Sumaria in the area as well. The big difference between any potential claims made in England by Italians or Scotsman is markedly different to those made by Israel. Why, because the Jews have always lived in the region. Sure, most were driven away but many still remained. The people of the region are the people of the region. Disregarding any gentic dilution the difference between Palestinians and Israelis/Jews is simply one of religion. Perhaps a better analogy would be the claiming of Nottinghamshire by Baptist descendants of the Mayflower  ;D [quote]Only a few weeks ago a bright canary yellow schoolbus was hit with a Cornet anti tank missile fired from Gaza killing one 16 year old schoolkid and wounding others. Would any country on the planet in the 21st century be inclined to negotiate large parcels of their land away in the hope that such acts of terrorism will stop?

The propaganda of tit for tat violence is pointless. I don't think the solution IS a 2 party state. That would simply extend the conflict forever. Something along the lines of a federal system with Jerusalem as the Capital territory would be far more promising. [/quote]

Well Israel can certainly stop the tit for tat violence, but if you think the terrorists will also do the right thing you are very much mistaken.
They are sworn to Israel's destruction whether Israel lays down it's arms or not.
And would you be so inclined to say the same if it was a schoolbus in Sydney that was attacked in such a way.
Israel has no choice but to respond with force when terrorists attack it's citizens as any other democracy on the planet would.

Chicken.
Don't over simplify it.
Israel is responsible for the murder of 1000's of innocent children.
Have you forgotten military action in Lebanon & Gaza in recent times?
What about unarmed protesters crossing the Golan Heights just weeks ago?

You are very biased.

Europe remains a hostile target for Israel. 8-)

Bobby. wrote on Jun 18^th, 2011 at 2:45pm:

Chicken. Don't over simplify it. Israel is responsible for the murder of 1000's of innocent children. Have you forgotten military action in Lebanon & Gaza in recent times? What about unarmed protesters crossing the Golan Heights just weeks ago? You are very biased.

To say the least.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/children.html

Good link Grey.


Quote:

The Impact of the Conflict on Children: 124 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 1,463 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 18^th, 2011 at 2:45pm:

Chicken. Don't over simplify it. Israel is responsible for the murder of 1000's of innocent children. Have you forgotten military action in Lebanon & Gaza in recent times? What about unarmed protesters crossing the Golan Heights just weeks ago? You are very biased.

Why the bugger does your narration always start with "Don't forget, when the jews hit back, that caused the death of........"

there may never be peace between israelis and palestinians but will there ever be peace between birds and pigs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMltvlqEM54

That's funny coming from a Je.... er... Armenian.

nah jews are pretty funny theres nothing remarkable about it

Soren wrote on Jun 18^th, 2011 at 7:42pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 18th, 2011 at 2:45pm: Chicken. Don't over simplify it. Israel is responsible for the murder of 1000's of innocent children. Have you forgotten military action in Lebanon & Gaza in recent times? What about unarmed protesters crossing the Golan Heights just weeks ago? You are very biased. Why the bugger does your narration always start with "Don't forget, when the jews hit back, that caused the death of........"

Soren - the Pallys have nothing -  NOTHING.
The Jews have billions of dollars of the latest high tech weapons.
It's such an unfair war that the Pallys tie a bomb belt around
their waists & blow themselves up.
I think if other countries stop supplying Israel with weapons
the Jews will be forced to sit down & negotiate peace.
The Yanks give them billions of dollars of free high tech weapons every year.

The Muslims will not accept Israel's right to exists. It's contrary to their religion and it is also their way of covering up their own, er, inadequacies as societies.
You tell us what your counter-offer woul be from there, negotiating strategy-wise.

Quote:

The Muslims will not accept Israel's right to exists. It's contrary to their religion

Palestinians were a secular people, not religious extremists. Only in modern times has Jewish extremism forced the adoption of a strident Islamist voice on them through the relatively well funded organisations HAMAS and HEZBULLAH.


Quote:

Ali Qleibo, a Palestinian anthropologist, explains: "Throughout history a great diversity of peoples has moved into the region and made Palestine their homeland: Canaanites, Jebusites, Philistines from Crete, Anatolian and Lydian Greeks, Hebrews, Amorites, Edomites, Nabateans, Arameans, Romans, Arabs, and European crusaders, to name a few. Each of them appropriated different regions that overlapped in time and competed for sovereignty and land. Others, such as Ancient Egyptians, Hittites, Persians, Babylonians, and Mongols, were historical 'events' whose successive occupations were as ravaging as the effects of major earthquakes ... Like shooting stars, the various cultures shine for a brief moment before they fade out of official historical and cultural records of Palestine. The people, however, survive. In their customs and manners, fossils of these ancient civilizations survived until modernity—albeit modernity camouflaged under the veneer of Islam and Arabic culture."

Bobby. wrote on Jun 18^th, 2011 at 7:24pm:

Good link Grey. Quote: The Impact of the Conflict on Children: 124 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 1,463 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000.

Of course.

Yes, i always believe what 'Palestinians' tell me, regards their justified struggle against those murderous Zionists.

Because 'Palestinians' are always scrupulously honest, candid, and truthful in all of their accounts      ....NOT!, NOT!, NOT!


Google;
al dura hoax

Google;
pallywood



Grey,
bobby,

These are people [moslems] who are willing to murder their own children, so as to create a media event, which will falsely cast blame upon Israelis.

These people....
"Arab world in revolt, how will the West fare?"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1296163674/58#58






THE TRUTH IS THAT....

ISLAM, is a lie.

Moslems promote that lie.

Moslems are a part of that lie.

E V E R Y  D A Y  -  MOSLEMS LIE

ISLAM......is a false religion, for a false people.




Google;
taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit

Google;
we smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"



Grey,
bobby,

People like yourselves are giving comfort to wanna-be murderers.

And that is the 'moral' place, where persons such as yourself have chosen to stand.



The people who you choose to stand with, are the very same people who assert that ISLAM is a virtuous philosophy.

They are the very same people who throw acid in the faces of young women who dare to challenge their unjust authority.

Those are the people who you choose to stand with.


Google;
gaza women acid attack for not wearing hijab

Google;
acid attack gaza women Just Swords of Islam

Come on Yadda - get off the cooking sherry.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 12:10am:

Come on Yadda - get off the cooking sherry.

Well bobby, you are the one standing with people, who have on innumerable occasions, clearly fabricated many accusations against Israel and the Jewish people.

But you choose to ignore the veracity of the exposures, of those fabricated accusations against Israel.

Q.
Why is that bobby ?

A.
Because you chose to stand with, LAIRS, CHEAT'S, MURDERERS.



Google;
palestinian lies media watch

Google;
al dura hoax

Google;
pallywood





It wasn't your fault was it bobby ?

You have no responsibility, in choosing to stand with deceivers, and murderers.

How could you know that people who had declared their wish to slaughter the Jewish people were wanna-be murderers ???

They told you, that they were the victims.

Right bobby ???

Yadda, both Israelies and Palestinians have much in common with each other and Macbeth...


Quote:

Lady Macbeth " My hands are of your colour, but I be shamed to wear a heart so white "

Yadda wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 1:11am:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 19th, 2011 at 12:10am: Come on Yadda - get off the cooking sherry. Well bobby, you are the one standing with people, who have on innumerable occasions, clearly fabricated many accusations against Israel and the Jewish people. But you choose to ignore the veracity of the exposures, of those fabricated accusations against Israel. Q. Why is that bobby ? A. Because you chose to stand with, LAIRS, CHEAT'S, MURDERERS. Google; palestinian lies media watch Google; al dura hoax Google; pallywood It wasn't your fault was it bobby ? You have no responsibility, in choosing to stand with deceivers, and murderers. How could you know that people who had declared their wish to slaughter the Jewish people were wanna-be murderers ??? They told you, that they were the victims. Right bobby ???

No Yadda.
You see everything in black & white.
You see Jews as angels & Pallys as devils.
The truth is that they are all crazy.

I think people who equivocate in the Israel/Arab conflict - saying that both sides are as bad as the other - are really people who, in their heart of hearts, wish every success to the Arabs in their openly stated endeavour to sweep the jews into the sea. They are are just too cowardly to say it out loud because they know that saying it like the Arab do is really barbarous. But they heart is with the barbarian side.

Soren wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 9:30pm:

I think people who equivocate in the Israel/Arab conflict - saying that both sides are as bad as the other - are really people who, in their heart of hearts, wish every success to the Arabs in their openly stated endeavour to sweep the jews into the sea. They are are just too cowardly to say it out loud because they know that saying it like the Arab do is really barbarous. But they heart is with the barbarian side.

I know you do Soren. That lump in your throat is a Zionist propaganda machine, you may have to get it surgically removed before you'll be able to think straight again.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 19^th, 2011 at 1:48pm:

No Yadda. You see everything in black & white. You see Jews as angels & Pallys as devils. The truth is that they are all crazy.

I'm just concerned bobby, that you unequivocally have chosen to demonise those nasty murderous, Zionists [who clearly shoot 'peaceful', 'unarmed' protesters].

But bobby how can you justify your partisan, unequivocally held views ???

When those views are based on accusations and evidence [against Jewish people, Israelis] which has been exposed, proven to be, lies and fabrications.

The same lies and fabrications, which are being 'manufactured' by persons who have openly declared a desire to slaughter the Jewish people, and a people who have based their own hatred [of Jewish people], upon, those very lies and fabrications.


bobby,

This just seems a totally 1/ unjust, 2/ illogical and 3/ an indefensible moral position / stance to take ????

To support a side, which is basing their argument, upon [what are clearly] lies, falsehoods, and fabrications.






And i repeat bobby, you have chosen to stand with those people, who have clearly fabricated their accusations against Israel and the Jewish people.

But you continue to choose to ignore the veracity of the exposures, of those fabricated accusations against Israel.

And yet, you chose to stand with, LAIRS, CHEAT'S, MURDERERS.



bobby,

Do you see the 'proof' and the fabricated 'facts' of liars as a legitimate basis for supporting the position and cause of those liars [i.e. the 'Palestinians']  ???






Yadda, who sees everything in black and white.

Yadda, who thinks that basing moral beliefs on a fabricated reality, is wrong, and stupid.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 18^th, 2011 at 2:45pm:

Chicken. Don't over simplify it. Israel is responsible for the murder of 1000's of innocent children. Have you forgotten military action in Lebanon & Gaza in recent times? What about unarmed protesters crossing the Golan Heights just weeks ago? You are very biased.

And yet I was the one over simplifying it?
Israel is responsible?
Why, for responding to attacks made against her citizens.

You have conveniently forgotten how Hamas and their filthy allies use:
a. Children as human sheilds to soak up the ball bearings when the rocket crew scarper after firing at Israel.
b. Children to dig in the smuggling tunnels.
c. Children as spotters in Gaza during Cast Lead on the front lines.
d. Mentally handicapped children to approach Israeli border guards strapped with explosives.
e.  Deliberately target Israeli civilians, which is what terrorists do.

It must have annoyed those terrorists enormously when only a few months ago they picked up a young mentally handicapped boy from his small village, who was of course well known in the village.
The scum strapped a bomb belt on him, and told him to approach the Israeli soldiers at the roadblock and press the button when he got there.
But the poor kid was so completely terrified when walking towards the grim looking Israeli soldiers with all their guns pointing at him and the soldiers yelling at him, that he started to cry uncontrollably and inadvertently let his jacket fall open to expose the explosives.
He was told in no uncertain terms to stand still and not move.
You would have thought at this point the boy was dead.
But one very heroic lone Israeli soldier, without orders, stood up and then approached the child, and then disarmed him.
Incidently, the boy was returned unharmed to his village, and Hamas solved that problem by ensuring future mentally handicapped children will have remote detonators placed on them.

Recently a bright yellow schoolbus outside of Gaza was hit with a Cornet Anti Tank missile tearing the bus apart killing one 16 year old boy and injuring many others.

So you think after all those hundreds of attacks on Israel from Gaza before Cast Lead, those maggots didn't earn the IDF's response.
You must be joking or you are insane.

As for Lebanon in 2006, that nation was warned and warned, and yet warned again about the repercussions of allowing terrorists to attack Israeli civilians.
The Lebanese government of course did nothing, the UN of course once again did nothing, the Europeans did nothing, the US did nothing, so the IDF had no choice whatsoever but to respond and respond hard.

And the Lebanese should be thankful every single day they breathe that the IDF didn't roll them up to the next northern border and raze everything in between.

And with terrorists now as 'elected' members of the Lebanese Parliament, and UNIFIL keeping their eyes tightly closed not seeing Hezbollah re-arming for the next attacks, any future response from Israel could well result in a full scale war as opposed to a limited incursion with or without the blue caps sitting in their barracks sucking their thumbs.

Yes Israel is responsible for responding to attacks made against it's citizens, but considering that it is the duty of every single democratic government on the entire planet to protect it's citizens, I fail to see how Israel is at fault.
As for those 'unarmed' protestors recently, are they still considered to be 'unarmed' even when they only have wire cutters and molotov cocktails or do they need to have AK47's or anti tank missiles to be considered 'armed'.

Grey wrote on Jun 18^th, 2011 at 6:00pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 18th, 2011 at 2:45pm: Chicken. Don't over simplify it. Israel is responsible for the murder of 1000's of innocent children. Have you forgotten military action in Lebanon & Gaza in recent times? What about unarmed protesters crossing the Golan Heights just weeks ago? You are very biased. To say the least. http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/children.html

Pass me a hankie will you.  :'( :'( :'(

A new optimism is being reported amongst Palestinians as the 'facebook generation' turns its hand to unarmed resistance. It's good to see the eminent and reasonable Hannan Ashrawi taking part in the debate after being quiet for a decade.

http://anniesnewletters.blogspot.com/2011/04/dr-hanan-ashrawi-previously-israeli.html

Bobby. wrote on Jun 18^th, 2011 at 8:37pm:

Soren wrote on Jun 18th, 2011 at 7:42pm: Bobby. wrote on Jun 18th, 2011 at 2:45pm: Chicken. Don't over simplify it. Israel is responsible for the murder of 1000's of innocent children. Have you forgotten military action in Lebanon & Gaza in recent times? What about unarmed protesters crossing the Golan Heights just weeks ago? You are very biased. Why the bugger does your narration always start with "Don't forget, when the jews hit back, that caused the death of........" Soren - the Pallys have nothing -  NOTHING. The Jews have billions of dollars of the latest high tech weapons. It's such an unfair war that the Pallys tie a bomb belt around their waists & blow themselves up. I think if other countries stop supplying Israel with weapons the Jews will be forced to sit down & negotiate peace. The Yanks give them billions of dollars of free high tech weapons every year.

The reason the Pally's have nothing is because they have corrupt terrorists who would rather kill Jews than build.
You also have the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank who control the purse strings for Hamas in Gaza, and they have not been forthcoming with funds.
They have nothing because they don't build anything but tunnels to smuggle weapons, they just wish to destroy.
And Israel by the way pays for it's weapons, they are not given.

Indeed.

The Palestinian Arabs are even more corrupt than the garden variety Arabs.

Foreign aid and budget deficitDue to conditions in the territory it administers, the Palestinian Authority (PA) has received unprecedented financial support from the international community. According to the World Bank, USD 929 million were given by the international community to the PNA in 2001, $891 million in 2003 and $1.1 billion in 2005 (representing 53% of the budget in 2005). The main objectives are support to the budget, development aid and public health. In 2003, the US funded $224 million, the EU $187 million, the Arab League $124 million, Norway $53 million, the World Bank $50 million, the United Kingdom $43 million, Italy $40 million, and the last $170 million by others.[citation needed] According to the World Bank, the budget deficit was about of $800 million in 2005, with nearly half of it financed by donors. "The PA's fiscal situation has become increasingly unsustainable mainly as a result of uncontrolled government consumption, in particular a rapidly increasing public sector wage bill, expanding social transfer schemes and rising net lending," said the World Bank report. Government corruption is widely seen as the cause of much of the PA financial difficulties.


That highlighted clause means 'government corruption'. The last sentence spells it out.
Their main expenditure is on tribal militias and feeding their insatiable Swiss bank accounts.

Bobby. wrote on Jun 18^th, 2011 at 8:37pm:

Soren - the Pallys have nothing -  NOTHING. The Jews have billions of dollars of the latest high tech weapons. It's such an unfair war that the Pallys tie a bomb belt around their waists & blow themselves up. I think if other countries stop supplying Israel with weapons the Jews will be forced to sit down & negotiate peace. The Yanks give them billions of dollars of free high tech weapons every year.

The pallys have nothing because Islam produces lots of jobless bums.
Palestine is an economic basket case that relies on foreign aid to survive what do they produce and what do they export?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_aid_to_Palestinians

The optical technology in these precision weapons is Israeli technology they export this to the USA along with other countries  even our FA18 have Israeli technology.
The USA has asked Israel to not sell this technology to others so maybe their financial aid is like compensation for lost revenue on advanced weapon sales.

We look at the Merkava tank -Israeli technology
Uzi Galil- Galil 223 used by IDF is Israeli technology so is the Uzi submachine gun
Optical technology for precision weapons- Used by coalition forces more Israeli technology.
Israel does export weapons to many countries.

Islam does not do peace they do ceasefires until they can rebuild to attack again.
Listen to this bearded babboon saying the jews are the eternal enemy of muslims regardless of the occupation of Palestine.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X8dhrzQCHY

Soren wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 11:02am:

Indeed. The Palestinian Arabs are even more corrupt than the garden variety Arabs. Foreign aid and budget deficitDue to conditions in the territory it administers, the Palestinian Authority (PA) has received unprecedented financial support from the international community. According to the World Bank, USD 929 million were given by the international community to the PNA in 2001, $891 million in 2003 and $1.1 billion in 2005 (representing 53% of the budget in 2005). The main objectives are support to the budget, development aid and public health. In 2003, the US funded $224 million, the EU $187 million, the Arab League $124 million, Norway $53 million, the World Bank $50 million, the United Kingdom $43 million, Italy $40 million, and the last $170 million by others.[citation needed] According to the World Bank, the budget deficit was about of $800 million in 2005, with nearly half of it financed by donors. "The PA's fiscal situation has become increasingly unsustainable mainly as a result of uncontrolled government consumption, in particular a rapidly increasing public sector wage bill, expanding social transfer schemes and rising net lending," said the World Bank report. Government corruption is widely seen as the cause of much of the PA financial difficulties. That highlighted clause means 'government corruption'. The last sentence spells it out. Their main expenditure is on tribal militias and feeding their insatiable Swiss bank accounts.

Your not suggesting Mrs Arafat's $200 million bank account originally came from Crackafat's syphoning off donations meant to run Gaza and West Bank are you? ;)
It wasn't all that long ago the NGO's in Gaza were whining about how the nasty Israeli's were cutting off water for Gaza.
The whole complaints business ended rather quickly when it was discovered the Israeli's had nothing to do with it, as the PA was withholding money required for maintenance work to be carried out on the pumping stations.
Although some money and cement must be getting into Gaza with the new water theme park there, and the new multi story shopping complex opened recently.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 11:27am:

Your not suggesting Mrs Arafat's $200 million bank account originally came from Crackafat's syphoning off donations meant to run Gaza and West Bank are you? ;)

That is a TERRIBLE suggestion!! She earned every penny of it - and now needs help:

Return-Path: <suhaarafat070@sify.com>
from MRS.SUHA ARAFAT <suhaarafat070@sify.com>
reply-to suhaarafat070@dbzmail.com
to
date Sat, Sep 27, 2008
subject GOOD DAY

This mail may not be surprising to you if you have been following current
events in the international media with reference to the Middle East and
Palestine in particular. I am Mrs. SUHA ARAFAT, the wife of YASSER ARAFAT,
the Palestinian leader who died recently in Paris. Since his death and even prior to the announcement, I have been thrown into a state of antogonism,
,confusion, humiliation, frustration and hopelessness by the present leadership of the Palestinian Liberation Organization and the new Prime Minister.

I have even been subjected to physical and psychological torture. As a widow that is so traumatized, I have lost confidence with everybody in the country at the moment. You must have heard over the media reports and the Internet on the discovery of some fund in my husband secret bank account and companies and the allegations of some huge sums of money deposited by my husband in my name of which I have refused to disclose or give up to the corrupt Palestine Government.In fact the total sum allegedly discovered by the Government so far is in the tune of about $6.5 Billion Dollars. And they are not relenting on their effort to make me poor for life. As you know, the Muslem community has no regards for woman, hence my desire for a foreign assistance.You can visit the cbs news broadcast below for better uderstanding of what I am talking about;

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/07/60minutes/main582487.s">http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...s/main582487.s
html,

I have deposited the sum of 20 million dollars with a security firm abroad whose name is withheld for now until we open communication. I shall be grateful if you could receive this fund into your bank account for safe keeping and any Investment opportunity. This arrangement is known to you and my personal Attorney.He might be dealing with you directly for security reasons as the case may be. In view of the above, if you are willing to assist for our mutual benefits,we will have to negotiate on your Percentage share of the 20,000,000 million dollars that will be kept in your position for a while and invested in your name for my trust pending when my Daughter, Zahwa, will come off age and take full responsibility of her Family estate/inheritance. Note that if you are honest,I am going to entrust more funds in your care as this is one of the legacy we keep for our children.

In case you don't accept please do not let me out to the security and international media as I am giving you this information in total trust and confidence I will greatly appreciate if you accept my proposal in good faith. Please expedite action.

Yours sincerely,
(Mrs.) Suha Arafat.
MY EMAIL:suhaarafat070@yahoo.fr


;D ;D ;D ;D

Annie Anthrax, ABu and Cap'n Spolding (aka Lestat) should be alerted.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 11:27am:

Your not suggesting Mrs Arafat's $200 million bank account originally came from Crackafat's syphoning off donations meant to run Gaza and West Bank are you?

Arafat, Mr Yasser, skimmed off, much more than that.



Google;
arafat died a billionaire



Probably much of that $$$$$$ was originally paid as tax, by idiot European tax payers.

And was intended to aid the 'poor' 'Palestinians' in 'nation building'.

Soren wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 1:55pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jun 21st, 2011 at 11:27am: Your not suggesting Mrs Arafat's $200 million bank account originally came from Crackafat's syphoning off donations meant to run Gaza and West Bank are you? ;) That is a TERRIBLE suggestion!! She earned every penny of it - and now needs help: Return-Path: <suhaarafat070@sify.com> from MRS.SUHA ARAFAT <suhaarafat070@sify.com> reply-to suhaarafat070@dbzmail.com to date Sat, Sep 27, 2008 subject GOOD DAY This mail may not be surprising to you if you have been following current events in the international media with reference to the Middle East and Palestine in particular. I am Mrs. SUHA ARAFAT, the wife of YASSER ARAFAT, the Palestinian leader who died recently in Paris. Since his death and even prior to the announcement, I have been thrown into a state of antogonism, ,confusion, humiliation, frustration and hopelessness by the present leadership of the Palestinian Liberation Organization and the new Prime Minister. I have even been subjected to physical and psychological torture. As a widow that is so traumatized, I have lost confidence with everybody in the country at the moment. You must have heard over the media reports and the Internet on the discovery of some fund in my husband secret bank account and companies and the allegations of some huge sums of money deposited by my husband in my name of which I have refused to disclose or give up to the corrupt Palestine Government.In fact the total sum allegedly discovered by the Government so far is in the tune of about $6.5 Billion Dollars. And they are not relenting on their effort to make me poor for life. As you know, the Muslem community has no regards for woman, hence my desire for a foreign assistance.You can visit the cbs news broadcast below for better uderstanding of what I am talking about; http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/07/60minutes/main582487.s">http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...s/main582487.s html, I have deposited the sum of 20 million dollars with a security firm abroad whose name is withheld for now until we open communication. I shall be grateful if you could receive this fund into your bank account for safe keeping and any Investment opportunity. This arrangement is known to you and my personal Attorney.He might be dealing with you directly for security reasons as the case may be. In view of the above, if you are willing to assist for our mutual benefits,we will have to negotiate on your Percentage share of the 20,000,000 million dollars that will be kept in your position for a while and invested in your name for my trust pending when my Daughter, Zahwa, will come off age and take full responsibility of her Family estate/inheritance. Note that if you are honest,I am going to entrust more funds in your care as this is one of the legacy we keep for our children. In case you don't accept please do not let me out to the security and international media as I am giving you this information in total trust and confidence I will greatly appreciate if you accept my proposal in good faith. Please expedite action. Yours sincerely, (Mrs.) Suha Arafat. MY EMAIL:suhaarafat070@yahoo.fr ;D ;D ;D ;D Annie Anthrax, ABu and Cap'n Spolding (aka Lestat) should be alerted.

You see what the poor possum has had to put up with.
How could they do that to a poor widow. ;D ;D ;D

Grey wrote on Jun 20^th, 2011 at 5:13am:

Soren wrote on Jun 19th, 2011 at 9:30pm: I think people who equivocate in the Israel/Arab conflict - saying that both sides are as bad as the other - are really people who, in their heart of hearts, wish every success to the Arabs in their openly stated endeavour to sweep the jews into the sea. They are are just too cowardly to say it out loud because they know that saying it like the Arab do is really barbarous. But they heart is with the barbarian side. I know you do Soren. That lump in your throat is a Zionist propaganda machine, you may have to get it surgically removed before you'll be able to think straight again.

After the holocaust you tell a jew, like the Muslims have been telling the jews, that you want to kill him - and the jew will believe you! Incredible!

How do I know? It must be Zionist propaganda because without it, this would be unbelievable - jews taking death threats seriously. It is evidently unbelievable to one such as you who is unswayed by Zionist propaganda.

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jun 21^st, 2011 at 10:52am:

The reason the Pally's have nothing is because they have corrupt terrorists who would rather kill Jews than build. You also have the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank who control the purse strings for Hamas in Gaza, and they have not been forthcoming with funds. They have nothing because they don't build anything but tunnels to smuggle weapons, they just wish to destroy. And Israel by the way pays for it's weapons, they are not given.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_%E2%80%93_United_States_relations#United_States_aid

Grey wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 7:54am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Jun 21st, 2011 at 10:52am: The reason the Pally's have nothing is because they have corrupt terrorists who would rather kill Jews than build. You also have the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank who control the purse strings for Hamas in Gaza, and they have not been forthcoming with funds. They have nothing because they don't build anything but tunnels to smuggle weapons, they just wish to destroy. And Israel by the way pays for it's weapons, they are not given. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_%E2%80%93_United_States_relations#United_States_aid

A bit more investigation would also reveal that the US gives aid to many other countries as well.
And that the aid that Israel receives is merely a drop in the bucket compared to Israel's GDP of $217 Billion per year, which has the most vibrant economy in the entire middle east.
And why would the US not support what is at present the sole democracy in the region.

Soon the aid ill be flowing the other way:

One of the largest deposits – 250 billion barrels of oil in Israel’s Shfela basin, comparable to Saudi Arabia’s entire reserves of 260 billion barrels of oil - has until now been unexploited

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2011/06/10/israels-new-energy/


Once this field goes into production, there will be no need to tiptoe around the Muslims with PC platitudes. (Unless you are in the market for sand, that is.)

Grey wrote on Jun 18^th, 2011 at 11:18pm:

Palestinians were a secular people, not religious extremists. Only in modern times has Jewish extremism forced the adoption of a strident Islamist voice on them through the relatively well funded organisations HAMAS and HEZBULLAH.

Everyone seems to be against everyone in the Palestinian territories. Fatah against Fatah, Fatah against Hamas, Hamas in Gaza against Hamas in Syria, Mahmoud Abbas versus Mohammed Dahlan and many other senior Fatah figures, Hamas and some in Fatah against Salam Fayyad, Islamic Jihad versus everyone and everyone versus the Syrian-based Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command.

Ironically, it is their shared hostility toward Israel that keeps the rivalries and internecine fighting from erupting into a full-fledged civil war.
http://www.hudson-ny.org/2214/palestinians-fighting-eachother-statehood

If anything, the presence of the jews is a break on the Muslim-on-Muslim violence.

Soren wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2011 at 12:26pm:

Grey wrote on Jun 18th, 2011 at 11:18pm: Palestinians were a secular people, not religious extremists. Only in modern times has Jewish extremism forced the adoption of a strident Islamist voice on them through the relatively well funded organisations HAMAS and HEZBULLAH. Everyone seems to be against everyone in the Palestinian territories. Fatah against Fatah, Fatah against Hamas, Hamas in Gaza against Hamas in Syria, Mahmoud Abbas versus Mohammed Dahlan and many other senior Fatah figures, Hamas and some in Fatah against Salam Fayyad, Islamic Jihad versus everyone and everyone versus the Syrian-based Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine – General Command. Ironically, it is their shared hostility toward Israel that keeps the rivalries and internecine fighting from erupting into a full-fledged civil war. http://www.hudson-ny.org/2214/palestinians-fighting-eachother-statehood If anything, the presence of the jews is a break on the Muslim-on-Muslim violence.

Reminiscent of a scene from the Life of Brian ???

Brian      Are you the Judean People's Front?
Reg      bugger off.
Brian      What?
Reg      Judean People's Front. We're the People's Front of Judea. Judean
     People's front, caw.
Francis Wankers.
Brian      Can I join your group?
Reg      No. Piss off.
Brian      I didn't want to sell this stuff. It's only a job. I hate the Romans
     as much as anybody.
PFJ      Sssh. Ssssh, sssh, sssh, ssssh
Judith      Are you sure?
Brian      Oh. Dead sure... I hate the Romans already.
Reg      Listen. If you really wanted to join the PFJ, you'd have to really
     hate the Romans.
Brian      I do.
Reg      Oh yeah? How much?
Brian      A lot!
Reg      Right. You're in. Listen. The only people we hate more than the
     Romans are the smacking Judean People's Front.
PFJ      Yeah
Judith      Splitters.
Francis And the Judean Popular Peoples Front.
PFJ      Oh yeah. Splitters.
Loretta And the peoples Front of Judea.
PFJ      Splitters.
Reg      What?
Loretta The Peoples front of Judea. Splitters.
Reg      We're the Peoples front of Judea.
Loretta Oh. I thought we were the Popular Front.
Reg      Peoples Front.
Francis Whatever happened to the Popular Front, Reg?
Reg      He's over there.
--------[A single old man sits on a lower seat.]





+++

The curse upon Hagars spawn [AKA, as the PFLP, PLO, PPF, PPPF, and XYZPPF.  ;D   ]....

Genesis 16:12
And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.



Are the Arab people blessed, by Allah ?

OR,

Are the Arab people cursed by the God of Israel ?

???

Genesis 12:3
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.




Moslem people [as individuals] can change their fate.

Many moslem people have already done this.

"The future's not set. There's no fate but what we make for ourselves."
Sarah Connor - T2

Jews themselves are hardly a united front. Of course both Jews and Palestinians are Semites and Islam, Judaism and Christianity are splitters from a common Abrahamic root.
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/differencejudzion.html

Grey wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 3:51am:

Jews themselves are hardly a united front. Of course both Jews and Palestinians are Semites and Islam, Judaism and Christianity are splitters from a common Abrahamic root. http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/differencejudzion.html

What does it matter?
Israel still remains.

Grey wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 3:51am:

Jews themselves are hardly a united front. Of course both Jews and Palestinians are Semites and Islam, Judaism and Christianity are splitters from a common Abrahamic root. http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/differencejudzion.html

Interesting Grey, i examined the article, but i couldn't find a clear definition of a 'Zionist'.

Why is that ???

"To begin with, a few definitions: Who is a Jew? A Jew is anyone who has a Jewish mother or who converted to Judaism in conformity with Halacha, Jewish religious law. This definition alone excludes racism...."

Why won't they define what, or who, a true Zionist is ???



+++




Psalms 87:2
The LORD loveth the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob.
3  Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah.


Psalms 137:1
By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
2  We hanged our harps upon the willows in the midst thereof.
3  For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion.
4  How shall we sing the LORD'S song in a strange land?
5  If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.
6  If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy.
7  Remember, O LORD, the children of Edom in the day of Jerusalem; who said, Rase it, rase it, even to the foundation thereof.


Isaiah 62:1
For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.
2  And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.
3  Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.
4  Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.
5  For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.
6  I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence,
7  And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth.


Zechariah 12:1
The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
2  Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
3  And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

Grey wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 3:51am:

Jews themselves are hardly a united front. Of course both Jews and Palestinians are Semites and Islam, Judaism and Christianity are splitters from a common Abrahamic root. http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/differencejudzion.html

It is true that the Arab peoples, and Judaism and Christianity are from a common Abrahamic root.

But ISLAM ?

ISLAM is clearly* antithetical to everything that was 'found' in the person of Abraham.  [Isaiah 41:8,  Romans 4:3,  Galatians 3:6,   John 8:39-40]

[clearly*antithetical   ...read the Koran and the Hadith !! ]


+++

Google;
"for in Isaac shall thy seed be called" jacob

The God of Jacob, was the 'splitter'.

God [the God of Jacob] was the one who used his discernment, to separate Jacob, to himself.


Exodus 3:6
Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.


Deuteronomy 32:7
Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee.
8  When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
9  For the LORD'S portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.
10  He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye.


Matthew 22:31
But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32  I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
33  And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.

Don't be ridiculous. They are the one race. Same as Pakistani and Indians, one race. Family always fight.

boogieman wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2011 at 8:23pm:

Don't be ridiculous. They are the one race. Same as Pakistani and Indians, one race. Family always fight.

Don't be ridiculous, you ignorant, uninformed person.
Read the Koran, read the Hadith, study ISLAMIC religious doctrine.

Moslems are one family, one ummah - TO THE EXCLUSION OF ALL OTHER PEOPLE, HUMAN BEINGS, 'BEASTS' ['unbelievers'].

Their religion forbids moslems from being 'one family' with unbelievers, ANY unbeliever.
Their religion forbids moslems from living at peace with unbelievers.

To be good moslems, moslems must always fight [be engaged in the 'struggle'] against unbelievers, and good moslems always feel an enmity towards 'dis-believers' [i.e. Israelis].

[ISLAM's way of achieving 'peace' with unbelievers is explained by Osama Bin Laden...
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/11/raymond-ibrahim-islams-doctrines-of-deception.html  ]

And confirming the above, moslems [the poor 'Palestinians'] indiscriminately send rocket and mortar fire into Israeli towns and villages.
And confirming the above, whenever they can, moslems [the poor 'Palestinians'] indiscriminately bomb cafes markets and buses within Israel.






Jews and moslems are all members of one 'family'?
IMAGE...
http://www.israelnewsagency.com/beersheva8.04.jpg
IS THIS THE ACT OF A FAMILY MEMBER ???


But Israelis are condemned by the world community, for erecting these walls...
IMAGE...
http://www.deiryassin.org/images/fpwall.jpg
SO AS TO SEPARATE ISRAELI CITIZENS, FROM THOSE WHO ARE SEEKING TO SLAUGHTER THEM
....in accordance with their ISLAMIC religion.






Further evidence that their 'religion', teaches moslems to not regard other human beings,
...AS, HUMAN BEINGS...

Allah, the god of the Koran and ISLAM, inspired these words...


"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76

"O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him."
Koran 9.123

"O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed."
Koran 9.073
Koran 66.009

"Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
Koran 4.101

"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 002.216


"Don't be ridiculous. They [Jews and moslems] are the one race."

"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah:"
Koran 3.028

"O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?"
Koran 4.144

"Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment."
Koran 18.102

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other......"
Koran 48.029

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51


Moslems are one family, one ummah - TO THE EXCLUSION OF ALL OTHER PEOPLE,
TO THE EXCLUSION OF ALL OTHER HUMAN BEINGS,
TO THE EXCLUSION OF ALL OTHER 'BEASTS' ['unbelievers'].

Dictionary;
ummah = = the whole community of Muslims bound together by ties of religion.





The ummah [the worldwide moslem community] are a closed community [in law, i.e. in moslem law].

To ISLAM [to good moslems!], those outside the ummah have the status of cattle.

i.e.
Those outside the ummah can live, while they are 'useful' to moslems, but they are not 'protected'.