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Political Parties >> Australian Labor Party >> Labor demonising those who question the science
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Message started by Maqqa on Mar 18th, 2011 at 6:25am

Title: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Maqqa on Mar 18th, 2011 at 6:25am
http://au.news.yahoo.com/queensland/a/-/latest/9031650/welcome-to-smart-side-garnaut-to-abbott/

The government's economic adviser on climate change has welcomed Opposition Leader Tony Abbott's departure from what he says is the "ignorant side" of the emissions debate.

Ross Garnaut delivered his sixth update to his landmark 2008 report on Thursday with an observation that Australia was battling "an awful contest between knowledge and ignorance".

Asked to name names, the professor declined to criticise Mr Abbott, who once said climate change was "crap".

"I wouldn't put him on the ignorant side," Prof Garnaut told ABC television.

"Well, he obviously was on the ignorant side one day and the knowledge side the next.

"It wasn't a consistent message, but I'm very glad that the most recent statement is consistent with the science.

"It wouldn't be good for Australia for a senior political leader to not be accepting what the mainstream science is saying."

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Maqqa on Mar 18th, 2011 at 6:27am
Remember 4 years ago anyone who questions their science were called "Climate Change Deniers"

Now people have caught onto this they've changed their names but not their tactics

If you accept their loose science they will happily name you "smart"

But god forbid if you question their loose science!!

So the best that Garnaut and his Labor croonies can offer to the climate change debate is "smart and ignorant"

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by bogarde73 on Mar 18th, 2011 at 6:34am
The amusing thing is they also demonise people - and rightly so - like the Catholic Church for suppressing counter opinions over the centuries, without even recognising they are doing the same thing themselves.
Funny though, I can't remember them demonising the communists too much.
We must be constantly on guard against the "pretend" democrats, who want only their opinions to be heard. They will take your freedom away faster than anyone . . . and the biggest danger comes from the Greens.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Maqqa on Mar 18th, 2011 at 6:59am
They cigarette companies using the same tactics in the 60's, 70's and 80's

Remember the Marlboro Man or other advertising that labeled you as "cool and manly and attracted beautiful girls" if you smoked and those who didn't smoke were demonised as "weak and gutless"


Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by mozzaok on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:14am
Boy you extreme right wackos have trouble with language, and definitions.
You constantly refer to refugees as illegals, which is an example of attempting to demonise a whole group of people, many of whom have suffered greatly, due to no fault of their own, and arose from the fact that a war was carried to their country, while you make a pathetic attempt to turn Climate Change Denialists into "victims", by claiming they are being demonised by the left.

The truth is far less sinister, they are not being demonised, they are being "RIDICULED", which is actually quite approproiate, because their posturing, and arguments, are, RIDICULOUS.

Comprende?
(I thought I would try out a different language, seeing that English is a bit of a struggle for some.) ;) ;) ;)

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by cods on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:22am

Maqqa wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 6:59am:
They cigarette companies using the same tactics in the 60's, 70's and 80's

Remember the Marlboro Man or other advertising that labeled you as "cool and manly and attracted beautiful girls" if you smoked and those who didn't smoke were demonised as "weak and gutless"




the best one I thought was the big hero type kicking the sand in the weaker guys face...

cant remember what they advertised though...help!

probably bodybuilding! thats a laugh looking at booby and judas.

they also forget to mention Abbotts comments were to do more with Human cause..another thing that hardly gets a mention now..its all just BIG companies..

which makes me think this really is all about getting BIGger taxes from these money machines....but making it look like its what the people want and not just greedy govts.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:28am
It doesn't matter that Labor demonises anyone.
They are a bunch of inept incompetent Mr Magoo's bumbling and stumbling around from one policy disaster to another.
They have no credibility themselves, so them demonising anyone at all is just laughable.
And as far as the dodgy icy pole science and 'computer modelling' that they have put so much stock in is concerned, I get better info out of my tea leaves.
So someone had better be questioning these clowns whether they like it or not.
Because quite frankly Labors record in the last 3+ years has been absolutely woeful.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by gizmo_2655 on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:31am

cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:22am:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 6:59am:
They cigarette companies using the same tactics in the 60's, 70's and 80's

Remember the Marlboro Man or other advertising that labeled you as "cool and manly and attracted beautiful girls" if you smoked and those who didn't smoke were demonised as "weak and gutless"




the best one I thought was the big hero type kicking the sand in the weaker guys face...

cant remember what they advertised though...help!
probably bodybuilding! thats a laugh looking at booby and judas.

they also forget to mention Abbotts comments were to do more with Human cause..another thing that hardly gets a mention now..its all just BIG companies..

which makes me think this really is all about getting BIGger taxes from these money machines....but making it look like its what the people want and not just greedy govts.



It was the Charles Atlas Dynamic Tension Bodybuilding program cods..

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by mozzaok on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:33am

cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:22am:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 6:59am:
They cigarette companies using the same tactics in the 60's, 70's and 80's

Remember the Marlboro Man or other advertising that labeled you as "cool and manly and attracted beautiful girls" if you smoked and those who didn't smoke were demonised as "weak and gutless"




the best one I thought was the big hero type kicking the sand in the weaker guys face...

cant remember what they advertised though...help!

probably bodybuilding! thats a laugh looking at booby and judas.

they also forget to mention Abbotts comments were to do more with Human cause..another thing that hardly gets a mention now..its all just BIG companies..

which makes me think this really is all about getting BIGger taxes from these money machines....but making it look like its what the people want and not just greedy govts.



Don't forget the Evil Coalition of Lying Scientists will want their cut too, I mean it must cost a bomb to keep them all agreeing with the evil left wing conspiracy to destroy modern civilisation.
I think that is the current wisdom from the "skeptics" [sic], or maybe it was a Zionist conspiracy???
Anyway, it is reassuring to hear there are still those who are just too clever to listen to all those experts, who think that just because they are professional scientists, educated and active in the area of climate science, that they should expect their work be taken more seriously than anonymous bloggers promoting conspiracy theories.
AS IF.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by cods on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:35am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:31am:

cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:22am:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 6:59am:
They cigarette companies using the same tactics in the 60's, 70's and 80's

Remember the Marlboro Man or other advertising that labeled you as "cool and manly and attracted beautiful girls" if you smoked and those who didn't smoke were demonised as "weak and gutless"




the best one I thought was the big hero type kicking the sand in the weaker guys face...

cant remember what they advertised though...help!
probably bodybuilding! thats a laugh looking at booby and judas.

they also forget to mention Abbotts comments were to do more with Human cause..another thing that hardly gets a mention now..its all just BIG companies..

which makes me think this really is all about getting BIGger taxes from these money machines....but making it look like its what the people want and not just greedy govts.



It was the Charles Atlas Dynamic Tension Bodybuilding program cods..




thanks gizmo that would have worried me all day.. thought it had to be bobybuilding.. I can see the guy that did the kicking now... big bully..

boy that was around for a long time..

did you.. hummmmmmm ever buy one??...lol

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Ernie on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:37am
Cor! What a bunch of sooks!

They can give it, but simply can't take it.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Katanyavich on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:46am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:31am:

cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:22am:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 6:59am:
They cigarette companies using the same tactics in the 60's, 70's and 80's

Remember the Marlboro Man or other advertising that labeled you as "cool and manly and attracted beautiful girls" if you smoked and those who didn't smoke were demonised as "weak and gutless"




the best one I thought was the big hero type kicking the sand in the weaker guys face...

cant remember what they advertised though...help!
probably bodybuilding! thats a laugh looking at booby and judas.

they also forget to mention Abbotts comments were to do more with Human cause..another thing that hardly gets a mention now..its all just BIG companies..

which makes me think this really is all about getting BIGger taxes from these money machines....but making it look like its what the people want and not just greedy govts.



It was the Charles Atlas Dynamic Tension Bodybuilding program cods..




Difference is, though, that if you stuck at it, the Charles
Atlas course actually did some good.


Completely UNLIKE this carbon tax/climate-change SCAM.

The proponents of this massive CONFIDENCE-TRICK should
be dragged from power and JAILED.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:53am

mozzaok wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:33am:

cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:22am:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 6:59am:
They cigarette companies using the same tactics in the 60's, 70's and 80's

Remember the Marlboro Man or other advertising that labeled you as "cool and manly and attracted beautiful girls" if you smoked and those who didn't smoke were demonised as "weak and gutless"




the best one I thought was the big hero type kicking the sand in the weaker guys face...

cant remember what they advertised though...help!

probably bodybuilding! thats a laugh looking at booby and judas.

they also forget to mention Abbotts comments were to do more with Human cause..another thing that hardly gets a mention now..its all just BIG companies..

which makes me think this really is all about getting BIGger taxes from these money machines....but making it look like its what the people want and not just greedy govts.



Don't forget the Evil Coalition of Lying Scientists will want their cut too, I mean it must cost a bomb to keep them all agreeing with the evil left wing conspiracy to destroy modern civilisation.
I think that is the current wisdom from the "skeptics" [sic], or maybe it was a Zionist conspiracy???
Anyway, it is reassuring to hear there are still those who are just too clever to listen to all those experts, who think that just because they are professional scientists, educated and active in the area of climate science, that they should expect their work be taken more seriously than anonymous bloggers promoting conspiracy theories.
AS IF.


Don't know about the scientists wanting their 'cut', but they sure as hell will want their funding, and make no mistake it always comes down to money.
And do you really trust Labor to do anything worthwhile with the proceeds of their questionable air tax?
As if the dunderclumpers all took 'competent' pills last night.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by skippy. on Mar 18th, 2011 at 8:09am
LOL booo hooo  ignorant numb nuts.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by philperth2010 on Mar 18th, 2011 at 8:28am
I have no problem with anyone questioning the science of climate change....feel free to provide all the evidence available so people can make an informed decision.....People should never blindly accept anything that is said to them.....However as every government on Earth has agreed the science is correct and action is required I fail to see how they could all be so wrong......I do not think all these countries would be advocating such a drastic change in the world economy unless there was truth in it....why would they do this to there own economies if climate change was crap....I think it is more a case of seeking an advantage than accepting there is a problem.....The debate is being driven by self interest not the science???

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 18th, 2011 at 8:28am

skippy. wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 8:09am:
LOL booo hooo  ignorant numb nuts.


Yes I know skippy, anyone that doesn't swallow the tripe handed out by the left wing green bed wetter brigade is ignorant.
As if the questionable dodgy science theory has gotten any more reliable and verifiable lately.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by GrandPaPa on Mar 18th, 2011 at 10:07am
philperth said:
I have no problem with anyone questioning the science of climate change....feel free to provide all the evidence available so people can make an informed decision.....People should never blindly accept anything that is said to them.....However as every government on Earth has agreed the science is correct and action is required I fail to see how they could all be so wrong......I do not think all these countries would be advocating such a drastic change in the world economy unless there was truth in it....why would they do this to there own economies if climate change was crap....I think it is more a case of seeking an advantage than accepting there is a problem.....The debate is being driven by self interest not the science???      


Spot on philperth, and I'd suggest for self-interest read MONEY.....
In this world political types readily cast aside morality and common sense if these impinge in any way upon their lust for the tax dollar!
One has only to consider the Australian state governments' full-blown, completely immoral attachment to the gambling industry teat!
And of course we all know that doyen of the human climate change cult, Al Gore, isn't into it for the megabucks.....yeah right!!

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by buzzanddidj on Mar 18th, 2011 at 10:16am

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 8:28am:

skippy. wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 8:09am:
LOL booo hooo  ignorant numb nuts.


Yes I know skippy, anyone that doesn't swallow the tripe handed out by the left wing green bed wetter brigade is ignorant.
As if the questionable dodgy science theory has gotten any more reliable and verifiable lately.







Quote:
JULIA GILLARD: The scientific consensus is stronger than ever. Given these realities, I ask: who would I rather have on my side? Alan Jones, Piers Akerman and Andrew Bolt, or the CSIRO, the Australian Academy of Science, the Bureau of Meteorology, NASA, the US National Atmospheric Administration and every reputable climate scientist in the world





Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Foolosophy on Mar 18th, 2011 at 10:27am
Surely NOBODY takes Andrew Bolt seriously?

Tell me it isnt true...........please

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Foolosophy on Mar 18th, 2011 at 10:31am

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 8:28am:

skippy. wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 8:09am:
LOL booo hooo  ignorant numb nuts.


Yes I know skippy, anyone that doesn't swallow the tripe handed out by the left wing green bed wetter brigade is ignorant.
As if the questionable dodgy science theory has gotten any more reliable and verifiable lately.


Human driven Global warming was proven in the 1970's and the first rpedictive calculations carried out by the Nobel Prize winning chemist Arrhenius in 1895.

Anything you say on the matter is not only irrelevant but associated with various mental disorders and psychological afflictions.

AGW DENIALISTS are out of the decision making process now.

You cannot even enter the debate about how this serious problem will be tackled.

Your only choice is to form a union with the Flat Earth Society - I hear that they still run meetings.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 18th, 2011 at 11:23am

buzzanddidj wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 10:16am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 8:28am:

skippy. wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 8:09am:
LOL booo hooo  ignorant numb nuts.


Yes I know skippy, anyone that doesn't swallow the tripe handed out by the left wing green bed wetter brigade is ignorant.
As if the questionable dodgy science theory has gotten any more reliable and verifiable lately.







Quote:
JULIA GILLARD: The scientific consensus is stronger than ever. Given these realities, I ask: who would I rather have on my side? Alan Jones, Piers Akerman and Andrew Bolt, or the CSIRO, the Australian Academy of Science, the Bureau of Meteorology, NASA, the US National Atmospheric Administration and every reputable climate scientist in the world


That's an impressive list of scientific bodies their Buzz.
Unfortunately, they all get their info from the one discredited IPCC.
And NASA just looks plain silly releasing world average temperatures from 50 years before NASA even existed.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 18th, 2011 at 11:28am

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 10:31am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 8:28am:

skippy. wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 8:09am:
LOL booo hooo  ignorant numb nuts.


Yes I know skippy, anyone that doesn't swallow the tripe handed out by the left wing green bed wetter brigade is ignorant.
As if the questionable dodgy science theory has gotten any more reliable and verifiable lately.


Human driven Global warming was proven in the 1970's and the first rpedictive calculations carried out by the Nobel Prize winning chemist Arrhenius in 1895.

Anything you say on the matter is not only irrelevant but associated with various mental disorders and psychological afflictions.

AGW DENIALISTS are out of the decision making process now.

You cannot even enter the debate about how this serious problem will be tackled.

Your only choice is to form a union with the Flat Earth Society - I hear that they still run meetings.


Computer models based on best guesses is not 'proof'.
It's still a guess.
And the reading of Arctic icy poles is not 'proof'.
The associated fudge factors make it still a theoretical proposition.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by alevine on Mar 18th, 2011 at 11:29am

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 10:27am:
Surely NOBODY takes Andrew Bolt seriously?

Tell me it isnt true...........please


he is the far right wing nutjob's arch angel.  Piers is their god.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by mavisdavis on Mar 18th, 2011 at 11:49am

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 11:28am:

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 10:31am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 8:28am:

skippy. wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 8:09am:
LOL booo hooo  ignorant numb nuts.


Yes I know skippy, anyone that doesn't swallow the tripe handed out by the left wing green bed wetter brigade is ignorant.
As if the questionable dodgy science theory has gotten any more reliable and verifiable lately.


Human driven Global warming was proven in the 1970's and the first rpedictive calculations carried out by the Nobel Prize winning chemist Arrhenius in 1895.

Anything you say on the matter is not only irrelevant but associated with various mental disorders and psychological afflictions.

AGW DENIALISTS are out of the decision making process now.

You cannot even enter the debate about how this serious problem will be tackled.

Your only choice is to form a union with the Flat Earth Society - I hear that they still run meetings.


Computer models based on best guesses is not 'proof'.
It's still a guess.
And the reading of Arctic icy poles is not 'proof'.
The associated fudge factors make it still a theoretical proposition.



PMSL, they rewrite the computer progrems every fortnight to correct some of their errors, but still the glassy eyed dumb ones follow like shorn sheep.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Foolosophy on Mar 18th, 2011 at 11:52am
mavisdavis

List your qualifications in science and mathematics

Enlighten everyone in here as to where they are going wrong

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by mavisdavis on Mar 18th, 2011 at 11:55am

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 11:52am:
mavisdavis

List your qualifications in science and mathematics

Enlighten everyone in here as to where they are going wrong


Sorry mummy, gotta go.  Do you really mean to admit ignorance of this fact???

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Dnarever on Mar 18th, 2011 at 11:58am
Apparently its OK to question the science but it is a very different matter if you question - questioning the science.

Demonising - a bit precious really.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by philperth2010 on Mar 18th, 2011 at 12:07pm
Tony Abbott's scepticism of climate science has emerged again after the Opposition Leader told a Perth audience there was doubt over "whether carbon dioxide is quite the environmental villain that some people make it out to be".

The Sustainable Energy Association of Australia immediately labelled the comment "ludicrous", while the Government said it proved that climate change denial remained at the core of Liberal Party policy.

'Climate change is real'

Mr Abbott made the remark at an invitation-only community forum at the City of Belmont council chambers in response to a question from a schoolboy on what could be done to combat Perth's dwindling water supply.

Mr Abbott said desalination plants were one solution but created the problem of what to do about the resulting carbon emissions "if emissions are quite the problem that some people say they are".

"I don't think we can say that the science is settled here," he said. "There is no doubt that we should do our best to rest lightly on the planet . . . but having said that, whether carbon dioxide is quite the environmental villain that some people make it out to be is not yet proven.

"I don't think we should assume that the highest environmental challenge - let alone the great, moral, social and political challenge of our time - is to reduce our emissions."

Mr Abbott once described climate science as "absolute crap" but after becoming Opposition Leader in December 2009 conceded human activity was warming the globe.

As recently as last Tuesday, Mr Abbott told Melbourne radio host Steve Vizard: "I've long thought that, all things being equal, adding to carbon dioxide concentrations is going to change the climate."

Mr Abbott told the forum the Government's plan to tax carbon would hit Australians struggling under higher fuel, grocery and household bills and spruiked the coalition's direct action policy to plant more trees and invest in efficient energy.

Climate Change Minister Greg Combet said Mr Abbott's comments explained why his climate policy was "nonsense".

"Despite his best efforts to convince people that he really does accept the climate science, these comments make clear he has not changed his view," he said.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/9009559/abbott-still-in-denial-on-climate/17/

It is this lack of conviction and leadership by Abbott that is giving the likes of Bolt and Ackerman legitimacy.....Abbott needs to make his position clear and stop giving oxygen to the fringe element who are trying to high jack the issue of climate change.....If it is agreed that climate change is real (and all governments do agree) then we need to decide on the best action to address the problem......The argument about the science has been accepted by all governments accept the far right wing in developed countries and there supporters......These far right extremists pretend to accept the science (for political expediency) however they advocate doing very little about it unless there is money for the polluters......Ask yourself whose best interest these right wing extremists are trying to benefit......and why when there is a boom it is the rich who prosper and the poor who become more numerous???

>:(

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by vegitamite on Mar 18th, 2011 at 12:09pm
Talk about questions - and NOT liking the answer;

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/259117463.png?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1300414852&Signature=hNT%2FS5ULn%2BA6HQSFca2uV6dKUNI%3D

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by vegitamite on Mar 18th, 2011 at 12:13pm
btw Julie Bishop took her climate survey down, didn't like the support for #carbon tax? - #climate

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 18th, 2011 at 12:34pm

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 11:52am:
mavisdavis

List your qualifications in science and mathematics

Enlighten everyone in here as to where they are going wrong


Perhaps we should all require a Bachelor or Masters of Climate Change to be qualified to speak on this matter.
Because who actually does have one of those?
Personally I find my personal BS detector works very well, and has helped me in countless situations in life.
Because when I hear a HCCC 'expert' telling the ABC radio listeners that North Australia is going to get far more, and more severe Cyclones soon than what was experienced a 1000 years ago (long before the Portugese or English arrived), my BS detector goes off.
And when NASA releases world average temperatures from 50 years before NASA's existence, my BS detector goes off.
And when the IPCC releases past world average temperatures from a time long before white man arrived,  let alone when weather stations were invented my BS detector goes off.
And when the IPCC say they are getting temperature information from eons ago from Arctic icy poles, my BS detector goes off.
And when I find out that half a dozen organisations are releasing information, all obtained from the discreditted IPCC, my BS detector goes off.
And when I hear that Al Gore, the Champion of Climate Change has himself a company that stands to make mega bucks out of carbon credits, my BS detector goes off.
And when the greedy incompetent Labor government want to introduce an air tax to change the weather, my BS detector goes off.
Do I really need to go on here???
You know, if they just would have said that they think it's a good idea if we cleaned up the earth and made our cities more liveable by reducing smog and using renewable energy sources etc I would have been right behind that.
But trying to BS their way through with it with their stupid doom and gloom scenarios, I can barely stand to look at them.
Gillard and her half story on Chinas power stations the other day was just one more example after so much crap of the dribble and drivel our politicians will inflict on us to have us see things their way.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Katanyavich on Mar 18th, 2011 at 2:05pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 12:34pm:

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 11:52am:
mavisdavis

List your qualifications in science and mathematics

Enlighten everyone in here as to where they are going wrong


Perhaps we should all require a Bachelor or Masters of Climate Change to be qualified to speak on this matter.
Because who actually does have one of those?
Personally I find my personal BS detector works very well, and has helped me in countless situations in life.
Because when I hear a HCCC 'expert' telling the ABC radio listeners that North Australia is going to get far more, and more severe Cyclones soon than what was experienced a 1000 years ago (long before the Portugese or English arrived), my BS detector goes off.
And when NASA releases world average temperatures from 50 years before NASA's existence, my BS detector goes off.
And when the IPCC releases past world average temperatures from a time long before white man arrived,  let alone when weather stations were invented my BS detector goes off.
And when the IPCC say they are getting temperature information from eons ago from Arctic icy poles, my BS detector goes off.
And when I find out that half a dozen organisations are releasing information, all obtained from the discreditted IPCC, my BS detector goes off.
And when I hear that Al Gore, the Champion of Climate Change has himself a company that stands to make mega bucks out of carbon credits, my BS detector goes off.
And when the greedy incompetent Labor government want to introduce an air tax to change the weather, my BS detector goes off.
Do I really need to go on here???
You know, if they just would have said that they think it's a good idea if we cleaned up the earth and made our cities more liveable by reducing smog and using renewable energy sources etc I would have been right behind that.
But trying to BS their way through with it with their stupid doom and gloom scenarios, I can barely stand to look at them.
Gillard and her half story on Chinas power stations the other day was just one more example after so much crap of the dribble and drivel our politicians will inflict on us to have us see things their way.




I'll second that 100%.

My BS detector is fairly spinning off its gimbals at present.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by gizmo_2655 on Mar 18th, 2011 at 2:19pm

cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:35am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:31am:

cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:22am:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 6:59am:
They cigarette companies using the same tactics in the 60's, 70's and 80's

Remember the Marlboro Man or other advertising that labeled you as "cool and manly and attracted beautiful girls" if you smoked and those who didn't smoke were demonised as "weak and gutless"




the best one I thought was the big hero type kicking the sand in the weaker guys face...

cant remember what they advertised though...help!
probably bodybuilding! thats a laugh looking at booby and judas.

they also forget to mention Abbotts comments were to do more with Human cause..another thing that hardly gets a mention now..its all just BIG companies..

which makes me think this really is all about getting BIGger taxes from these money machines....but making it look like its what the people want and not just greedy govts.



It was the Charles Atlas Dynamic Tension Bodybuilding program cods..




thanks gizmo that would have worried me all day.. thought it had to be bobybuilding.. I can see the guy that did the kicking now... big bully..

boy that was around for a long time..

did you.. hummmmmmm ever buy one??...lol


Hummmmmmmmm NO, but I used to buy magazines that had the ads in them....

I stopped being '98 pounds' when I was about 12....LOL

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by gizmo_2655 on Mar 18th, 2011 at 2:22pm

Kat wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 2:05pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 12:34pm:

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 11:52am:
mavisdavis

List your qualifications in science and mathematics

Enlighten everyone in here as to where they are going wrong


Perhaps we should all require a Bachelor or Masters of Climate Change to be qualified to speak on this matter.
Because who actually does have one of those?
Personally I find my personal BS detector works very well, and has helped me in countless situations in life.
Because when I hear a HCCC 'expert' telling the ABC radio listeners that North Australia is going to get far more, and more severe Cyclones soon than what was experienced a 1000 years ago (long before the Portugese or English arrived), my BS detector goes off.
And when NASA releases world average temperatures from 50 years before NASA's existence, my BS detector goes off.
And when the IPCC releases past world average temperatures from a time long before white man arrived,  let alone when weather stations were invented my BS detector goes off.
And when the IPCC say they are getting temperature information from eons ago from Arctic icy poles, my BS detector goes off.
And when I find out that half a dozen organisations are releasing information, all obtained from the discreditted IPCC, my BS detector goes off.
And when I hear that Al Gore, the Champion of Climate Change has himself a company that stands to make mega bucks out of carbon credits, my BS detector goes off.
And when the greedy incompetent Labor government want to introduce an air tax to change the weather, my BS detector goes off.
Do I really need to go on here???
You know, if they just would have said that they think it's a good idea if we cleaned up the earth and made our cities more liveable by reducing smog and using renewable energy sources etc I would have been right behind that.
But trying to BS their way through with it with their stupid doom and gloom scenarios, I can barely stand to look at them.
Gillard and her half story on Chinas power stations the other day was just one more example after so much crap of the dribble and drivel our politicians will inflict on us to have us see things their way.




I'll second that 100%.

My BS detector is fairly spinning off its gimbals at present.



Yeah I have a similar problem with MY BS detector when I hear people say that the same temperature that will leave Greenland 'ice-free' is at or above the 'death point' for life on Earth....

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by longweekend58 on Mar 18th, 2011 at 2:59pm

mozzaok wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:14am:
Boy you extreme right wackos have trouble with language, and definitions.
You constantly refer to refugees as illegals, which is an example of attempting to demonise a whole group of people, many of whom have suffered greatly, due to no fault of their own, and arose from the fact that a war was carried to their country, while you make a pathetic attempt to turn Climate Change Denialists into "victims", by claiming they are being demonised by the left.

The truth is far less sinister, they are not being demonised, they are being "RIDICULED", which is actually quite approproiate, because their posturing, and arguments, are, RIDICULOUS.

Comprende?
(I thought I would try out a different language, seeing that English is a bit of a struggle for some.) ;) ;) ;)


seem you have a problem with bare-faced truth. The refugees were are referring to are in fact ILLEGALS having come here without the country's permission which is the basic definition of 'illegal'. And if you open up that rather closed mind of yours you will see that climate-change deniers are often 'victims' of vicious campaigns.

But there are none so TRULY DUMB as those who will not see.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by alevine on Mar 18th, 2011 at 3:01pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 2:59pm:

mozzaok wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:14am:
Boy you extreme right wackos have trouble with language, and definitions.
You constantly refer to refugees as illegals, which is an example of attempting to demonise a whole group of people, many of whom have suffered greatly, due to no fault of their own, and arose from the fact that a war was carried to their country, while you make a pathetic attempt to turn Climate Change Denialists into "victims", by claiming they are being demonised by the left.

The truth is far less sinister, they are not being demonised, they are being "RIDICULED", which is actually quite approproiate, because their posturing, and arguments, are, RIDICULOUS.

Comprende?
(I thought I would try out a different language, seeing that English is a bit of a struggle for some.) ;) ;) ;)


seem you have a problem with bare-faced truth. The refugees were are referring to are in fact ILLEGALS having come here without the country's permission which is the basic definition of 'illegal'. And if you open up that rather closed mind of yours you will see that climate-change deniers are often 'victims' of vicious campaigns.

But there are not sto TRULY DUMB as those who will not see.


Wow. Talk about trying to victimize yourself..

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by longweekend58 on Mar 18th, 2011 at 3:03pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 12:34pm:

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 11:52am:
mavisdavis

List your qualifications in science and mathematics

Enlighten everyone in here as to where they are going wrong


Perhaps we should all require a Bachelor or Masters of Climate Change to be qualified to speak on this matter.
Because who actually does have one of those?
Personally I find my personal BS detector works very well, and has helped me in countless situations in life.
Because when I hear a HCCC 'expert' telling the ABC radio listeners that North Australia is going to get far more, and more severe Cyclones soon than what was experienced a 1000 years ago (long before the Portugese or English arrived), my BS detector goes off.
And when NASA releases world average temperatures from 50 years before NASA's existence, my BS detector goes off.
And when the IPCC releases past world average temperatures from a time long before white man arrived,  let alone when weather stations were invented my BS detector goes off.
And when the IPCC say they are getting temperature information from eons ago from Arctic icy poles, my BS detector goes off.
And when I find out that half a dozen organisations are releasing information, all obtained from the discreditted IPCC, my BS detector goes off.
And when I hear that Al Gore, the Champion of Climate Change has himself a company that stands to make mega bucks out of carbon credits, my BS detector goes off.
And when the greedy incompetent Labor government want to introduce an air tax to change the weather, my BS detector goes off.
Do I really need to go on here???
You know, if they just would have said that they think it's a good idea if we cleaned up the earth and made our cities more liveable by reducing smog and using renewable energy sources etc I would have been right behind that.
But trying to BS their way through with it with their stupid doom and gloom scenarios, I can barely stand to look at them.
Gillard and her half story on Chinas power stations the other day was just one more example after so much crap of the dribble and drivel our politicians will inflict on us to have us see things their way.


PERFECTLY SAID!!! the silly part is that the vast majority of people support cleaning up the environment and protecting our water and renewable energy. But when they make up these BS hyserical scenarios to push it along they run the risk of otherwise decent people giving them the finger.

The last 30 years has just been one hysteria after another. No oil. Gobal cooling. Global warming. Y2K. Birdflu. Swine Flu.

and what happened from all of those? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. as always.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by GrandPaPa on Mar 18th, 2011 at 3:39pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 3:03pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 12:34pm:

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 11:52am:
mavisdavis

List your qualifications in science and mathematics

Enlighten everyone in here as to where they are going wrong


Perhaps we should all require a Bachelor or Masters of Climate Change to be qualified to speak on this matter.
Because who actually does have one of those?
Personally I find my personal BS detector works very well, and has helped me in countless situations in life.
Because when I hear a HCCC 'expert' telling the ABC radio listeners that North Australia is going to get far more, and more severe Cyclones soon than what was experienced a 1000 years ago (long before the Portugese or English arrived), my BS detector goes off.
And when NASA releases world average temperatures from 50 years before NASA's existence, my BS detector goes off.
And when the IPCC releases past world average temperatures from a time long before white man arrived,  let alone when weather stations were invented my BS detector goes off.
And when the IPCC say they are getting temperature information from eons ago from Arctic icy poles, my BS detector goes off.
And when I find out that half a dozen organisations are releasing information, all obtained from the discreditted IPCC, my BS detector goes off.
And when I hear that Al Gore, the Champion of Climate Change has himself a company that stands to make mega bucks out of carbon credits, my BS detector goes off.
And when the greedy incompetent Labor government want to introduce an air tax to change the weather, my BS detector goes off.
Do I really need to go on here???
You know, if they just would have said that they think it's a good idea if we cleaned up the earth and made our cities more liveable by reducing smog and using renewable energy sources etc I would have been right behind that.
But trying to BS their way through with it with their stupid doom and gloom scenarios, I can barely stand to look at them.
Gillard and her half story on Chinas power stations the other day was just one more example after so much crap of the dribble and drivel our politicians will inflict on us to have us see things their way.


PERFECTLY SAID!!! the silly part is that the vast majority of people support cleaning up the environment and protecting our water and renewable energy. But when they make up these BS hyserical scenarios to push it along they run the risk of otherwise decent people giving them the finger.

The last 30 years has just been one hysteria after another. No oil. Gobal cooling. Global warming. Y2K. Birdflu. Swine Flu.

and what happened from all of those? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. as always.


I agree with all of the above, but with just one further observation....

The outcomes were not "absolutely nothing..."

Rather, especially with regard to Y2K, Birdflu and Swineflu, many individuals and corporations got quite a bit richer!

Why does Al Gore spring immediately to mind?!?!

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by gizmo_2655 on Mar 18th, 2011 at 3:43pm

GrandPaPa wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 3:39pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 3:03pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 12:34pm:

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 11:52am:
mavisdavis

List your qualifications in science and mathematics

Enlighten everyone in here as to where they are going wrong


Perhaps we should all require a Bachelor or Masters of Climate Change to be qualified to speak on this matter.
Because who actually does have one of those?
Personally I find my personal BS detector works very well, and has helped me in countless situations in life.
Because when I hear a HCCC 'expert' telling the ABC radio listeners that North Australia is going to get far more, and more severe Cyclones soon than what was experienced a 1000 years ago (long before the Portugese or English arrived), my BS detector goes off.
And when NASA releases world average temperatures from 50 years before NASA's existence, my BS detector goes off.
And when the IPCC releases past world average temperatures from a time long before white man arrived,  let alone when weather stations were invented my BS detector goes off.
And when the IPCC say they are getting temperature information from eons ago from Arctic icy poles, my BS detector goes off.
And when I find out that half a dozen organisations are releasing information, all obtained from the discreditted IPCC, my BS detector goes off.
And when I hear that Al Gore, the Champion of Climate Change has himself a company that stands to make mega bucks out of carbon credits, my BS detector goes off.
And when the greedy incompetent Labor government want to introduce an air tax to change the weather, my BS detector goes off.
Do I really need to go on here???
You know, if they just would have said that they think it's a good idea if we cleaned up the earth and made our cities more liveable by reducing smog and using renewable energy sources etc I would have been right behind that.
But trying to BS their way through with it with their stupid doom and gloom scenarios, I can barely stand to look at them.
Gillard and her half story on Chinas power stations the other day was just one more example after so much crap of the dribble and drivel our politicians will inflict on us to have us see things their way.


PERFECTLY SAID!!! the silly part is that the vast majority of people support cleaning up the environment and protecting our water and renewable energy. But when they make up these BS hyserical scenarios to push it along they run the risk of otherwise decent people giving them the finger.

The last 30 years has just been one hysteria after another. No oil. Gobal cooling. Global warming. Y2K. Birdflu. Swine Flu.

and what happened from all of those? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. as always.


I agree with all of the above, but with just one further observation....

The outcomes were not "absolutely nothing..."

Rather, especially with regard to Y2K, Birdflu and Swineflu, many individuals and corporations got quite a bit richer!

Why does Al Gore spring immediately to mind?!?!



LOL well it could be because Al Gore 'told' us that the sea levels would rise 6m by 2015, and then bought an apartment 1.4m aboive the water line in Miami, with the money he made from his movie and Carbon Credit company???

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by gizmo_2655 on Mar 18th, 2011 at 3:49pm
Me personally...I'd like to see the WHOLE world go Co2 free by the end of next year....

Just so I could, in 10 years time (when the climate hasn't slowed at all), say "I TOLD YOU SO"....

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by longweekend58 on Mar 18th, 2011 at 3:57pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 3:49pm:
Me personally...I'd like to see the WHOLE world go Co2 free by the end of next year....

Just so I could, in 10 years time (when the climate hasn't slowed at all), say "I TOLD YOU SO"....


Yes thats a fun thought!

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Deathridesahorse on Mar 18th, 2011 at 4:26pm

Please delete wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:37am:
Cor! What a bunch of sooks!

They can give it, but simply can't take it.

They must've smoked too much crack and changed sex!

 ;D ;D :-[ :-[ :-[ :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Deathridesahorse on Mar 18th, 2011 at 4:31pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:53am:

mozzaok wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:33am:

cods wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:22am:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 6:59am:
They cigarette companies using the same tactics in the 60's, 70's and 80's

Remember the Marlboro Man or other advertising that labeled you as "cool and manly and attracted beautiful girls" if you smoked and those who didn't smoke were demonised as "weak and gutless"




the best one I thought was the big hero type kicking the sand in the weaker guys face...

cant remember what they advertised though...help!

probably bodybuilding! thats a laugh looking at booby and judas.

they also forget to mention Abbotts comments were to do more with Human cause..another thing that hardly gets a mention now..its all just BIG companies..

which makes me think this really is all about getting BIGger taxes from these money machines....but making it look like its what the people want and not just greedy govts.



Don't forget the Evil Coalition of Lying Scientists will want their cut too, I mean it must cost a bomb to keep them all agreeing with the evil left wing conspiracy to destroy modern civilisation.
I think that is the current wisdom from the "skeptics" [sic], or maybe it was a Zionist conspiracy???
Anyway, it is reassuring to hear there are still those who are just too clever to listen to all those experts, who think that just because they are professional scientists, educated and active in the area of climate science, that they should expect their work be taken more seriously than anonymous bloggers promoting conspiracy theories.
AS IF.


Don't know about the scientists wanting their 'cut', but they sure as hell will want their funding, and make no mistake it always comes down to money.
And do you really trust Labor to do anything worthwhile with the proceeds of their questionable air tax?
As if the dunderclumpers all took 'competent' pills last night.

".. and make no mistake it always comes down to money."

No poo sherlock!  :D :D :D :D :D :D

FM you must be on a million dollars a year!  :o :o

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Deathridesahorse on Mar 18th, 2011 at 4:35pm

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 8:28am:
I have no problem with anyone questioning the science of climate change....feel free to provide all the evidence available so people can make an informed decision.....People should never blindly accept anything that is said to them.....However as every government on Earth has agreed the science is correct and action is required I fail to see how they could all be so wrong......I do not think all these countries would be advocating such a drastic change in the world economy unless there was truth in it....why would they do this to there own economies if climate change was crap....I think it is more a case of seeking an advantage than accepting there is a problem.....The debate is being driven by self interest not the science???

There will never be 100% acceptance!

There never was with any science!!

That is why an error value is given!!!

It's largely an insurance issue... so the insurance markets will factor it in when they feel they have to!  :'( :'( :'( :'(

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Deathridesahorse on Mar 18th, 2011 at 4:37pm

GrandPaPa wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 10:07am:
philperth said:
I have no problem with anyone questioning the science of climate change....feel free to provide all the evidence available so people can make an informed decision.....People should never blindly accept anything that is said to them.....However as every government on Earth has agreed the science is correct and action is required I fail to see how they could all be so wrong......I do not think all these countries would be advocating such a drastic change in the world economy unless there was truth in it....why would they do this to there own economies if climate change TWO DIESwas crap....I think it is more a case of seeking an advantage than accepting there is a problem.....The debate is being driven by self interest not the science???      


Spot on philperth, and I'd suggest for self-interest read MONEY.....
In this world political types readily cast aside morality and common sense if these impinge in any way upon their lust for the tax dollar!
One has only to consider the Australian state governments' full-blown, completely immoral attachment to the gambling industry teat!
And of course we all know that doyen of the human climate change cult, Al Gore, isn't into it for the megabucks.....yeah right!!

TWO SIDES TO EVERY STICK YA KNOW!!!

TWO SIDES TO EVERY STICK YA KNOW!!!

TWO SIDES TO EVERY STICK YA KNOW!!!

TWO SIDES TO EVERY STICK YA KNOW!!!

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Deathridesahorse on Mar 18th, 2011 at 4:40pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 2:22pm:

Kat wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 2:05pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 12:34pm:

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 11:52am:
mavisdavis

List your qualifications in science and mathematics

Enlighten everyone in here as to where they are going wrong


Perhaps we should all require a Bachelor or Masters of Climate Change to be qualified to speak on this matter.
Because who actually does have one of those?
Personally I find my personal BS detector works very well, and has helped me in countless situations in life.
Because when I hear a HCCC 'expert' telling the ABC radio listeners that North Australia is going to get far more, and more severe Cyclones soon than what was experienced a 1000 years ago (long before the Portugese or English arrived), my BS detector goes off.
And when NASA releases world average temperatures from 50 years before NASA's existence, my BS detector goes off.
And when the IPCC releases past world average temperatures from a time long before white man arrived,  let alone when weather stations were invented my BS detector goes off.
And when the IPCC say they are getting temperature information from eons ago from Arctic icy poles, my BS detector goes off.
And when I find out that half a dozen organisations are releasing information, all obtained from the discreditted IPCC, my BS detector goes off.
And when I hear that Al Gore, the Champion of Climate Change has himself a company that stands to make mega bucks out of carbon credits, my BS detector goes off.
And when the greedy incompetent Labor government want to introduce an air tax to change the weather, my BS detector goes off.
Do I really need to go on here???
You know, if they just would have said that they think it's a good idea if we cleaned up the earth and made our cities more liveable by reducing smog and using renewable energy sources etc I would have been right behind that.
But trying to BS their way through with it with their stupid doom and gloom scenarios, I can barely stand to look at them.
Gillard and her half story on Chinas power stations the other day was just one more example after so much crap of the dribble and drivel our politicians will inflict on us to have us see things their way.




I'll second that 100%.

My BS detector is fairly spinning off its gimbals at present.



Yeah I have a similar problem with MY BS detector when I hear people say that the same temperature that will leave Greenland 'ice-free' is at or above the 'death point' for life on Earth....

Why?!!? What would make you question that?  :o :o

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Deathridesahorse on Mar 18th, 2011 at 4:42pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 10:16am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 8:28am:

skippy. wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 8:09am:
LOL booo hooo  ignorant numb nuts.


Yes I know skippy, anyone that doesn't swallow the tripe handed out by the left wing green bed wetter brigade is ignorant.
As if the questionable dodgy science theory has gotten any more reliable and verifiable lately.







Quote:
JULIA GILLARD: The scientific consensus is stronger than ever. Given these realities, I ask: who would I rather have on my side? Alan Jones, Piers Akerman and Andrew Bolt, or the CSIRO, the Australian Academy of Science, the Bureau of Meteorology, NASA, the US National Atmospheric Administration and every reputable climate scientist in the world

Hey, BUZZ, have I told you yet that ANDREW BOLT ACCUSED TONY ABBOTT OF ACTING ON CLIMATE CHANGE WITHOUT BELIEVING IN IT ON THE INSIDERS LAST SUNDAY?

 :D :D ;D ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) 8-)

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Deathridesahorse on Mar 18th, 2011 at 4:46pm

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 10:27am:
Surely NOBODY takes Andrew Bolt seriously?

Tell me it isnt true...........please
Hey, fool, did you know that ANDREW BOLT ACCUSED TONY ABBOTT OF ACTING ON CLIMATE CHANGE WITHOUT BELIEVING IN IT ON THE INSIDERS LAST SUNDAY.

WHY WOULDN'T TONY STAND UP AND SAY SOMETHING??????????  :-[ :-[

(OH, MAYBE THE LIBS ARE TRYING TO AVOID THAT DIFFICULT/CURLY-AS-A-M*^%$F*^%$'N SITUATION IN FRONT OF THE NATION.... DON'T MIND ME: CONTINUE!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D )

 :-/ :-/ :-/

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Deathridesahorse on Mar 18th, 2011 at 4:57pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 11:29am:

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 10:27am:
Surely NOBODY takes Andrew Bolt seriously?

Tell me it isnt true...........please


he is the far right wing nutjob's arch angel.  Piers is their god.

Yeh, but Nick Minchin has far more influence unfortunately!

He will destroy the Liberal Partys reputation in the history books if Tony Abbott plays the present days politics badly!

THAT IS A FACT!

WHEN DOES NICK LEAVE??? JULIA GILLARD IS TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THIS CONFLUENCE OF EVENTS IN A BALLS OUT MANNER!

SHE HAS GAME AND TONY LOOKS STONED OUT IN THE CORNER!

TONY ABBOTT LOOKS FAIR DINKUM CATATONIC AND UNFORTUNATELY HAS TO MOVE: JULIA HAS FORCED HIS HAND AND HE DOESN'T LOOK COMFORTABLE!  :D

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Deathridesahorse on Mar 18th, 2011 at 4:59pm

mavisdavis wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 11:55am:

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 11:52am:
mavisdavis

List your qualifications in science and mathematics

Enlighten everyone in here as to where they are going wrong


Sorry mummy, gotta go.  Do you really mean to admit ignorance of this fact???

oI, i THOUGHT YOU WERE A FIGHTER?!!?  :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-X :-X :'(

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Deathridesahorse on Mar 18th, 2011 at 5:03pm

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 12:07pm:
Tony Abbott's scepticism of climate science has emerged again after the Opposition Leader told a Perth audience there was doubt over "whether carbon dioxide is quite the environmental villain that some people make it out to be".

The Sustainable Energy Association of Australia immediately labelled the comment "ludicrous", while the Government said it proved that climate change denial remained at the core of Liberal Party policy.

'Climate change is real'

Mr Abbott made the remark at an invitation-only community forum at the City of Belmont council chambers in response to a question from a schoolboy on what could be done to combat Perth's dwindling water supply.

Mr Abbott said desalination plants were one solution but created the problem of what to do about the resulting carbon emissions "if emissions are quite the problem that some people say they are".

"I don't think we can say that the science is settled here," he said. "There is no doubt that we should do our best to rest lightly on the planet . . . but having said that, whether carbon dioxide is quite the environmental villain that some people make it out to be is not yet proven.

"I don't think we should assume that the highest environmental challenge - let alone the great, moral, social and political challenge of our time - is to reduce our emissions."

Mr Abbott once described climate science as "absolute crap" but after becoming Opposition Leader in December 2009 conceded human activity was warming the globe.

As recently as last Tuesday, Mr Abbott told Melbourne radio host Steve Vizard: "I've long thought that, all things being equal, adding to carbon dioxide concentrations is going to change the climate."

Mr Abbott told the forum the Government's plan to tax carbon would hit Australians struggling under higher fuel, grocery and household bills and spruiked the coalition's direct action policy to plant more trees and invest in efficient energy.

Climate Change Minister Greg Combet said Mr Abbott's comments explained why his climate policy was "nonsense".

"Despite his best efforts to convince people that he really does accept the climate science, these comments make clear he has not changed his view," he said.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/9009559/abbott-still-in-denial-on-climate/17/

It is this lack of conviction and leadership by Abbott that is giving the likes of Bolt and Ackerman legitimacy.....Abbott needs to make his position clear and stop giving oxygen to the fringe element who are trying to high jack the issue of climate change.....If it is agreed that climate change is real (and all governments do agree) then we need to decide on the best action to address the problem......The argument about the science has been accepted by all governments accept the far right wing in developed countries and there supporters......These far right extremists pretend to accept the science (for political expediency) however they advocate doing very little about it unless there is money for the polluters......Ask yourself whose best interest these right wing extremists are trying to benefit......and why when there is a boom it is the rich who prosper and the poor who become more numerous???

>:(

This reminds me of the time when : ANDREW BOLT ACCUSED TONY ABBOTT OF ACTING ON CLIMATE CHANGE WITHOUT BELEIVING IN CLIMATE CHANGE ON THE INSIDERS PROGRAM LAST SUNDAY!

This reminds me of the time when : ANDREW BOLT ACCUSED TONY ABBOTT OF ACTING ON CLIMATE CHANGE WITHOUT BELEIVING IN CLIMATE CHANGE ON THE INSIDERS PROGRAM LAST SUNDAY!

This reminds me of the time when : ANDREW BOLT ACCUSED TONY ABBOTT OF ACTING ON CLIMATE CHANGE WITHOUT BELEIVING IN CLIMATE CHANGE ON THE INSIDERS PROGRAM LAST SUNDAY!

This reminds me of the time when : ANDREW BOLT ACCUSED TONY ABBOTT OF ACTING ON CLIMATE CHANGE WITHOUT BELEIVING IN CLIMATE CHANGE ON THE INSIDERS PROGRAM LAST SUNDAY!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :o :o :o :o :o :o :o ;D :'(

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Deathridesahorse on Mar 18th, 2011 at 5:05pm

wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 12:13pm:
btw Julie Bishop took her climate survey down, didn't like the support for #carbon tax? - #climate

BTW, When is Allan Jones going to question Julie Bishop of the appropriateness of her push to make Australia embrace Nuclear Power?

BTW, When is Allan Jones going to question Julie Bishop of the appropriateness of her push to make Australia embrace Nuclear Power?

BTW, When is Allan Jones going to question Julie Bishop of the appropriateness of her push to make Australia embrace Nuclear Power?

BTW, When is Allan Jones going to question Julie Bishop of the appropriateness of her push to make Australia embrace Nuclear Power?

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Deathridesahorse on Mar 18th, 2011 at 5:11pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 2:22pm:
Yeah I have a similar problem with MY BS detector when I hear people say that the same temperature that will leave Greenland 'ice-free' is at or above the 'death point' for life on Earth....

You wouldn't have a source for this would you?

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Deathridesahorse on Mar 18th, 2011 at 5:15pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 3:43pm:

GrandPaPa wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 3:39pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 3:03pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 12:34pm:

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 11:52am:
mavisdavis

List your qualifications in science and mathematics

Enlighten everyone in here as to where they are going wrong


Perhaps we should all require a Bachelor or Masters of Climate Change to be qualified to speak on this matter.
Because who actually does have one of those?
Personally I find my personal BS detector works very well, and has helped me in countless situations in life.
Because when I hear a HCCC 'expert' telling the ABC radio listeners that North Australia is going to get far more, and more severe Cyclones soon than what was experienced a 1000 years ago (long before the Portugese or English arrived), my BS detector goes off.
And when NASA releases world average temperatures from 50 years before NASA's existence, my BS detector goes off.
And when the IPCC releases past world average temperatures from a time long before white man arrived,  let alone when weather stations were invented my BS detector goes off.
And when the IPCC say they are getting temperature information from eons ago from Arctic icy poles, my BS detector goes off.
And when I find out that half a dozen organisations are releasing information, all obtained from the discreditted IPCC, my BS detector goes off.
And when I hear that Al Gore, the Champion of Climate Change has himself a company that stands to make mega bucks out of carbon credits, my BS detector goes off.
And when the greedy incompetent Labor government want to introduce an air tax to change the weather, my BS detector goes off.
Do I really need to go on here???
You know, if they just would have said that they think it's a good idea if we cleaned up the earth and made our cities more liveable by reducing smog and using renewable energy sources etc I would have been right behind that.
But trying to BS their way through with it with their stupid doom and gloom scenarios, I can barely stand to look at them.
Gillard and her half story on Chinas power stations the other day was just one more example after so much crap of the dribble and drivel our politicians will inflict on us to have us see things their way.


PERFECTLY SAID!!! the silly part is that the vast majority of people support cleaning up the environment and protecting our water and renewable energy. But when they make up these BS hyserical scenarios to push it along they run the risk of otherwise decent people giving them the finger.

The last 30 years has just been one hysteria after another. No oil. Gobal cooling. Global warming. Y2K. Birdflu. Swine Flu.

and what happened from all of those? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. as always.


I agree with all of the above, but with just one further observation....

The outcomes were not "absolutely nothing..."

Rather, especially with regard to Y2K, Birdflu and Swineflu, many individuals and corporations got quite a bit richer!

Why does Al Gore spring immediately to mind?!?!



LOL well it could be because Al Gore 'told' us that the sea levels would rise 6m by 2015, and then bought an apartment 1.4m aboive the water line in Miami, with the money he made from his movie and Carbon Credit company???

6m by 2015: Did he really say that?  :o :o

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by dsmithy70 on Mar 18th, 2011 at 5:16pm
Scientist(Professor of Thermal sciences) calmly picking Mockton apart with his own slides & words.
http://www.stthomas.edu/engineering/jpabraham/

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Ernie on Mar 18th, 2011 at 6:39pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 5:16pm:
Scientist(Professor of Thermal sciences) calmly picking Mockton apart with his own slides & words.
http://www.stthomas.edu/engineering/jpabraham/


I just watched half of it - god it was awful, like revisiting every argument with longweekend and slr I've ever had.


Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by dsmithy70 on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:01pm

Please delete wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 6:39pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 5:16pm:
Scientist(Professor of Thermal sciences) calmly picking Mockton apart with his own slides & words.
http://www.stthomas.edu/engineering/jpabraham/


I just watched half of it - god it was awful, like revisiting every argument with longweekend and slr I've ever had.

;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by buzzanddidj on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:10pm

Quote:
JULIA GILLARD: The scientific consensus is stronger than ever. Given these realities, I ask: who would I rather have on my side? Alan Jones, Piers Akerman and Andrew Bolt, or the CSIRO, the Australian Academy of Science, the Bureau of Meteorology, NASA, the US National Atmospheric Administration and every reputable climate scientist in the world




[/quote]

That's an impressive list of scientific bodies their Buzz.
Unfortunately, they all get their info from the one discredited IPCC.
And NASA just looks plain silly releasing world average temperatures from 50 years before NASA even existed.

[/quote]



FIRSTLY, the IPCC has never been "discredited" - though many an energy producer has attempted to do so - without success

Secondly, the IPCC gets it's data from the "CSIRO, the Australian Academy of Science, the Bureau of Meteorology, NASA, the US National Atmospheric Administration and every reputable climate scientist in the world "

NOT ... the other way round




Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by gizmo_2655 on Mar 18th, 2011 at 10:04pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 5:15pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 3:43pm:

GrandPaPa wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 3:39pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 3:03pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 12:34pm:

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 11:52am:
mavisdavis

List your qualifications in science and mathematics

Enlighten everyone in here as to where they are going wrong


Perhaps we should all require a Bachelor or Masters of Climate Change to be qualified to speak on this matter.
Because who actually does have one of those?
Personally I find my personal BS detector works very well, and has helped me in countless situations in life.
Because when I hear a HCCC 'expert' telling the ABC radio listeners that North Australia is going to get far more, and more severe Cyclones soon than what was experienced a 1000 years ago (long before the Portugese or English arrived), my BS detector goes off.
And when NASA releases world average temperatures from 50 years before NASA's existence, my BS detector goes off.
And when the IPCC releases past world average temperatures from a time long before white man arrived,  let alone when weather stations were invented my BS detector goes off.
And when the IPCC say they are getting temperature information from eons ago from Arctic icy poles, my BS detector goes off.
And when I find out that half a dozen organisations are releasing information, all obtained from the discreditted IPCC, my BS detector goes off.
And when I hear that Al Gore, the Champion of Climate Change has himself a company that stands to make mega bucks out of carbon credits, my BS detector goes off.
And when the greedy incompetent Labor government want to introduce an air tax to change the weather, my BS detector goes off.
Do I really need to go on here???
You know, if they just would have said that they think it's a good idea if we cleaned up the earth and made our cities more liveable by reducing smog and using renewable energy sources etc I would have been right behind that.
But trying to BS their way through with it with their stupid doom and gloom scenarios, I can barely stand to look at them.
Gillard and her half story on Chinas power stations the other day was just one more example after so much crap of the dribble and drivel our politicians will inflict on us to have us see things their way.


PERFECTLY SAID!!! the silly part is that the vast majority of people support cleaning up the environment and protecting our water and renewable energy. But when they make up these BS hyserical scenarios to push it along they run the risk of otherwise decent people giving them the finger.

The last 30 years has just been one hysteria after another. No oil. Gobal cooling. Global warming. Y2K. Birdflu. Swine Flu.

and what happened from all of those? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. as always.


I agree with all of the above, but with just one further observation....

The outcomes were not "absolutely nothing..."

Rather, especially with regard to Y2K, Birdflu and Swineflu, many individuals and corporations got quite a bit richer!

Why does Al Gore spring immediately to mind?!?!



LOL well it could be because Al Gore 'told' us that the sea levels would rise 6m by 2015, and then bought an apartment 1.4m aboive the water line in Miami, with the money he made from his movie and Carbon Credit company???

6m by 2015: Did he really say that?  :o :o

Hmm I may have been mistaken...
He told a "Leaders in Dubai Business Forum" ,in 2009, that "“The North Pole ice cap is 40 percent gone already and could be completely and totally gone in the winter months in the next 5 to 10 years.” and that "could increase sea levels by 67 metres” ....So, 2009 + 5 years would make it between 2014 and 2019 (if 10 years is correct)...

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by gizmo_2655 on Mar 18th, 2011 at 10:07pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 4:40pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 2:22pm:

Kat wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 2:05pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 12:34pm:

Foolosophy wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 11:52am:
mavisdavis

List your qualifications in science and mathematics

Enlighten everyone in here as to where they are going wrong


Perhaps we should all require a Bachelor or Masters of Climate Change to be qualified to speak on this matter.
Because who actually does have one of those?
Personally I find my personal BS detector works very well, and has helped me in countless situations in life.
Because when I hear a HCCC 'expert' telling the ABC radio listeners that North Australia is going to get far more, and more severe Cyclones soon than what was experienced a 1000 years ago (long before the Portugese or English arrived), my BS detector goes off.
And when NASA releases world average temperatures from 50 years before NASA's existence, my BS detector goes off.
And when the IPCC releases past world average temperatures from a time long before white man arrived,  let alone when weather stations were invented my BS detector goes off.
And when the IPCC say they are getting temperature information from eons ago from Arctic icy poles, my BS detector goes off.
And when I find out that half a dozen organisations are releasing information, all obtained from the discreditted IPCC, my BS detector goes off.
And when I hear that Al Gore, the Champion of Climate Change has himself a company that stands to make mega bucks out of carbon credits, my BS detector goes off.
And when the greedy incompetent Labor government want to introduce an air tax to change the weather, my BS detector goes off.
Do I really need to go on here???
You know, if they just would have said that they think it's a good idea if we cleaned up the earth and made our cities more liveable by reducing smog and using renewable energy sources etc I would have been right behind that.
But trying to BS their way through with it with their stupid doom and gloom scenarios, I can barely stand to look at them.
Gillard and her half story on Chinas power stations the other day was just one more example after so much crap of the dribble and drivel our politicians will inflict on us to have us see things their way.




I'll second that 100%.

My BS detector is fairly spinning off its gimbals at present.



Yeah I have a similar problem with MY BS detector when I hear people say that the same temperature that will leave Greenland 'ice-free' is at or above the 'death point' for life on Earth....

Why?!!? What would make you question that?  :o :o



You mean the Greenland thing??..

What makes me question it is the fact of how Greenland got named...

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 19th, 2011 at 7:29pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 7:10pm:

Quote:
JULIA GILLARD: The scientific consensus is stronger than ever. Given these realities, I ask: who would I rather have on my side? Alan Jones, Piers Akerman and Andrew Bolt, or the CSIRO, the Australian Academy of Science, the Bureau of Meteorology, NASA, the US National Atmospheric Administration and every reputable climate scientist in the world


That's an impressive list of scientific bodies their Buzz.
Unfortunately, they all get their info from the one discredited IPCC.
And NASA just looks plain silly releasing world average temperatures from 50 years before NASA even existed.

[/quote]



FIRSTLY, the IPCC has never been "discredited" - though many an energy producer has attempted to do so - without success

Secondly, the IPCC gets it's data from the "CSIRO, the Australian Academy of Science, the Bureau of Meteorology, NASA, the US National Atmospheric Administration and every reputable climate scientist in the world "

NOT ... the other way round



[/quote]

That's outstanding Buzz.
So how does NASA for example get their world average temperatures that they post on their website from 1900 onward long before NASA existed or weather stations were built?
Time travel?
The old sling shot around the sun trick.
Or did they obtain those figures from another organisation. ;)
And when did CSIRO come into existence again?

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by mozzaok on Mar 20th, 2011 at 12:02pm
That is kind of you chicken lips, to provide an example of the simplistic type of thinking that denialists adhere to.
Inferring that the scientific technique to acquire data about temperatures is limited to standing on your back porch holding a thermometer, and that organisations like the CSIRO, and NASA are similarly limited.

http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/virtualmuseum/climatechange2/05_1.shtml

If it were not a case of attempting to talk to someone with their fingers shoved into their ears, up to their knuckles, then people like muso, and similar others, far better educated about, and acquainted with, the actual science used to determine proxy readings, could talk you through it in detail, but I can tell you that there is an abundance of resources on the net which you can avail yourself of, that can go into as much detail as you can want.
The link above was a very basic precis to provide general info, and is a starting point only.

I couldn't help thinking about when fossil records first started appearing, and the massive amount of resistance there was to the work of the scientists of that time, with accusations of fraud, and we know now how silly and hysterical those accusations were, but it seems the same basic instinct to resist vehemently, that which you do not want to hear, still remains.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Maqqa on Mar 20th, 2011 at 12:19pm
For the educated - they understand the so-called "science" methodologies used by other educated people.

Science is really a body of knowledge derived from a process. The general process are as follows

(1) Observations
(2) You make statements about these observations
(3) Credible methodology used in the collection of data
(4) Credible methodology used in the interpretation of the data
(5) The above process is repeatable
(6) Scientific fact is then determined

Facts are there are still too many uncertainty in Steps 1-4.

The zealots will ignore these uncertainties. And if you EVER question them they will call you names like "Climate Change deniers" or what Garnaut said the other day "Not a smart decision"

So the global warming zealots are asserting the following:
(a) Humans contribute to global warming
(b) they then extend this to say humans are the MAJOR CAUSE of global warming

These zealots then try to say that (a) and (b) are the same.

Here is where the uneducated gets confused

Point (a) is undeniable. But there are no facts to prove point (b). Humans contribute global warming but the zealots do not have proof that humans are the MAJOR cause of global warming.

Notice how the likes of lefowlerau will not tell you this process even though he claims to have a Masters Degree. Why? It's because it will make him look less credible.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by dsmithy70 on Mar 20th, 2011 at 12:31pm
So you admit humans contribute to CC.
Therefore, why are you against humans limiting their influence in this process by changing their ways?

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by philperth2010 on Mar 20th, 2011 at 12:39pm
The human contribution to climate change can be contained....Nature cannot!!!

The planet is able to absorb what it produces.....human consumption is disturbing the balance of nature!!!

To do nothing risks ruin….To act risks preservation!!!

Renewable energy makes good sense to a world were electricity is now a necessity of life!!!

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by mavisdavis on Mar 20th, 2011 at 1:16pm
The AGW religion has been forced upon us with a single minded, zealous intensity that would do an old time "fire & brimstone" preacher, or a muslim fundamentalist proud.  The science "supporting" human activity as a significant cause of climate change is far from proven.  Most of the loudest proponents of AGW have no, or very little understanding of what is an undeveloped science, so undeveloped in fact that it has next to zero credability.

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by skippy. on Mar 20th, 2011 at 1:35pm

mavisdavis wrote on Mar 20th, 2011 at 1:16pm:
The AGW religion has been forced upon us with a single minded, zealous intensity that would do an old time "fire & brimstone" preacher, or a muslim fundamentalist proud.  The science "supporting" human activity as a significant cause of climate change is far from proven.  Most of the loudest proponents of AGW have no, or very little understanding of what is an undeveloped science, so undeveloped in fact that it has next to zero credability.

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.

OH mellie goo, you've done it again.  :D :D :D

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by mavisdavis on Mar 20th, 2011 at 1:39pm

skippy. wrote on Mar 20th, 2011 at 1:35pm:

mavisdavis wrote on Mar 20th, 2011 at 1:16pm:
The AGW religion has been forced upon us with a single minded, zealous intensity that would do an old time "fire & brimstone" preacher, or a muslim fundamentalist proud.  The science "supporting" human activity as a significant cause of climate change is far from proven.  Most of the loudest proponents of AGW have no, or very little understanding of what is an undeveloped science, so undeveloped in fact that it has next to zero credability.

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.

OH mellie goo, you've done it again.  :D :D :D



BRILIANT!  By "certain" standards.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 21st, 2011 at 12:15pm

mozzaok wrote on Mar 20th, 2011 at 12:02pm:
That is kind of you chicken lips, to provide an example of the simplistic type of thinking that denialists adhere to.
Inferring that the scientific technique to acquire data about temperatures is limited to standing on your back porch holding a thermometer, and that organisations like the CSIRO, and NASA are similarly limited.

http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/virtualmuseum/climatechange2/05_1.shtml

If it were not a case of attempting to talk to someone with their fingers shoved into their ears, up to their knuckles, then people like muso, and similar others, far better educated about, and acquainted with, the actual science used to determine proxy readings, could talk you through it in detail, but I can tell you that there is an abundance of resources on the net which you can avail yourself of, that can go into as much detail as you can want.
The link above was a very basic precis to provide general info, and is a starting point only.

I couldn't help thinking about when fossil records first started appearing, and the massive amount of resistance there was to the work of the scientists of that time, with accusations of fraud, and we know now how silly and hysterical those accusations were, but it seems the same basic instinct to resist vehemently, that which you do not want to hear, still remains.


'The science used to determine proxy readings' says it all mozzaok, and that's the problem.
And I inferred nothing but only to question how organisations obtained detailed temperatures from the past long before those same organisations even existed.
Quite reasonable under the circumstances, don't you think.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Ernie on Mar 21st, 2011 at 12:20pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 21st, 2011 at 12:15pm:

mozzaok wrote on Mar 20th, 2011 at 12:02pm:
That is kind of you chicken lips, to provide an example of the simplistic type of thinking that denialists adhere to.
Inferring that the scientific technique to acquire data about temperatures is limited to standing on your back porch holding a thermometer, and that organisations like the CSIRO, and NASA are similarly limited.

http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/virtualmuseum/climatechange2/05_1.shtml

If it were not a case of attempting to talk to someone with their fingers shoved into their ears, up to their knuckles, then people like muso, and similar others, far better educated about, and acquainted with, the actual science used to determine proxy readings, could talk you through it in detail, but I can tell you that there is an abundance of resources on the net which you can avail yourself of, that can go into as much detail as you can want.
The link above was a very basic precis to provide general info, and is a starting point only.

I couldn't help thinking about when fossil records first started appearing, and the massive amount of resistance there was to the work of the scientists of that time, with accusations of fraud, and we know now how silly and hysterical those accusations were, but it seems the same basic instinct to resist vehemently, that which you do not want to hear, still remains.


'The science used to determine proxy readings' says it all mozzaok, and that's the problem.
And I inferred nothing but only to question how organisations obtained detailed temperatures from the past long before those same organisations even existed.
Quite reasonable under the circumstances, don't you think.


I thought it was a bizarre comment. Forgive me, but NASA is no different from any scientific organisation in this argument - they procure and infer data from wherever is necessary.

What on earth does it matter that they didn't exist 60 years ago?

They have determined, through analysis, the temps going back millenia. OR they are using the data from another organisation who has done that.

OR BOTH.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Maeve on Mar 21st, 2011 at 2:05pm
The Holy Grail for most scientists is not truth but research grants. And the global warming scare has produced a huge downpour of money for research. Any mystery why so many scientists claim some belief in global warming?

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by skippy. on Mar 21st, 2011 at 2:08pm

Maeve wrote on Mar 21st, 2011 at 2:05pm:
The Holy Grail for most scientists is not truth but research grants. And the global warming scare has produced a huge downpour of money for research. Any mystery why so many scientists claim some belief in global warming?

I suppose you could liken that to the fact that most confusionalists are lowly educated morons. You can try to educate them, but people with little education to begin with cant even grasp the basics.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by jackflash on Mar 21st, 2011 at 2:19pm
I suppose you could liken that to the fact that most confusionalists are lowly educated morons. You can try to educate them, but people with little education to begin with cant even grasp the basics.QUOTE.

Wrong.

Most confusionalists use words that aren't in the dictionary or anywhere else for that matter.





Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 21st, 2011 at 2:26pm

Please delete wrote on Mar 21st, 2011 at 12:20pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 21st, 2011 at 12:15pm:

mozzaok wrote on Mar 20th, 2011 at 12:02pm:
That is kind of you chicken lips, to provide an example of the simplistic type of thinking that denialists adhere to.
Inferring that the scientific technique to acquire data about temperatures is limited to standing on your back porch holding a thermometer, and that organisations like the CSIRO, and NASA are similarly limited.

http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/virtualmuseum/climatechange2/05_1.shtml

If it were not a case of attempting to talk to someone with their fingers shoved into their ears, up to their knuckles, then people like muso, and similar others, far better educated about, and acquainted with, the actual science used to determine proxy readings, could talk you through it in detail, but I can tell you that there is an abundance of resources on the net which you can avail yourself of, that can go into as much detail as you can want.
The link above was a very basic precis to provide general info, and is a starting point only.

I couldn't help thinking about when fossil records first started appearing, and the massive amount of resistance there was to the work of the scientists of that time, with accusations of fraud, and we know now how silly and hysterical those accusations were, but it seems the same basic instinct to resist vehemently, that which you do not want to hear, still remains.


'The science used to determine proxy readings' says it all mozzaok, and that's the problem.
And I inferred nothing but only to question how organisations obtained detailed temperatures from the past long before those same organisations even existed.
Quite reasonable under the circumstances, don't you think.


I thought it was a bizarre comment. Forgive me, but NASA is no different from any scientific organisation in this argument - they procure and infer data from wherever is necessary.

What on earth does it matter that they didn't exist 60 years ago?

They have determined, through analysis, the temps going back millenia. OR they are using the data from another organisation who has done that.

OR BOTH.


Analysis of what exactly.
Tea leaves, cats intestines?
How did one calculate precise world average temperatures using old nineteen century thermometers?
How did one obtain world average temperatures long before weather stations were even built?
When calculating word average temperatures, wouldn't it be sensible to include the whole world, or does only one thermometer in one place matter and the computer can extrapolate the rest?
Perhaps those figures used to demonstrate 19th century temperatures were extrapolations and guesstimations.
So all of a sudden, the science is not so precise and exact.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Ernie on Mar 21st, 2011 at 2:29pm
So now you're questioning EVERYTHING?


Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by skippy. on Mar 21st, 2011 at 2:29pm

jackflash wrote on Mar 21st, 2011 at 2:19pm:
I suppose you could liken that to the fact that most confusionalists are lowly educated morons. You can try to educate them, but people with little education to begin with cant even grasp the basics.QUOTE.

Wrong.

Most confusionalists use words that aren't in the dictionary or anywhere else for that matter.

LOL hit a raw nerve,LOL, I'm surprised that someone that shows the lack of education that you do would even know what a dictionary was. ;D ;D

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by dsmithy70 on Mar 21st, 2011 at 10:13pm
http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s3169309.htm


Climate Scienists side of the story
Full transcript and video at link

I think ACMA just might have enough official complaints after tonight
Imagine parrot having to sit there and have his lies picked apart. ;D


Quote:
From: David Karoly Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 5:20 AM To: Jonathan Holmes Subject: Review of Carter's Book in 2010
Hi Jonathan, I have received emails from several people asking me about my review of Bob Carter’s book, Climate: The Counter-Consensus, which is being prepared for Robin Williams Science Show. I have read the book twice but not yet completed my review in writing. A general comment on the book: While it has fewer gross errors than Ian Plimer’s book Heaven+Earth, it is a mixture of scientific facts with misinformation and misinterpretation, as well as outright errors, spun around a framework of personal opinion. Its conclusions are inconsistent with any scientific assessment of climate change prepared by any major national or international scientific body, such as the US National Research Council, the British Royal Society, the Australian Academy of Science, or the IPCC. His claims of a counter-consensus on climate change based on sound science are wrong. Best wishes, David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Prof David Karoly School of Earth Sciences University of Melbourne, VIC 3010, AUSTRALIA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Quote:
No science in Plimer's primer Michael Ashley From: The Australian May 09, 2009 12:00AM
Heaven and Earth By Ian Plimer Connor Court, 503pp, $39.95 ONE of the peculiar things about being an astronomer is that you receive, from time to time, monographs on topics such as "a new theory of the electric universe", or "Einstein was wrong", or "the moon landings were a hoax".

The writings are always earnest, often involve conspiracy theories and are scientifically worthless. One such document that arrived last week was Ian Plimer's Heaven and Earth. What makes this case unusual is that Plimer is a professor -- of mining geology -- at the University of Adelaide. If the subject were anything less serious than the future habitability of the planet Earth, I wouldn't go to the trouble of writing this review.

Plimer sets out to refute the scientific consensus that human emissions of CO2 have changed the climate. He states in his acknowledgments that the book evolved from a dinner in London with three young lawyers who believed the consensus. As Plimer writes: "Although these three had more than adequate intellectual material to destroy the popular paradigm, they had neither the scientific knowledge nor the scientific training to pull it apart stitch by stitch. This was done at dinner."

This is a remarkable claim. If Plimer is right and he is able to show that the work of literally thousands of oceanographers, solar physicists, biologists, atmospheric scientists, geologists, and snow and ice researchers during the past 100 years is fundamentally flawed, then it would rank as one of the greatest discoveries of the century and would almost certainly earn him a Nobel prize. This is the scale of Plimer's claim.



Quote:
4. Have you been invited onto a commercial radio talk program in the last year but declined? If so, when was that, what program was it and why did you decline?
Yes - the invitation was general and I declined - John Law's program. I declined because based on my limited experience of commercial radio I do not think they are actually interested in being informed on the science. It is very hard to calmly respond to questions that are ill-informed and misrepresent anything vaguely scientific. It would be like asking a cardiologist to respond to the well known theory that humans do not have a heart and cardiologists only claim we have a heart so they can make lots of money claiming to operate on them. This is so utterly without foundation that it is actually hard to say anything but "that is stupid". If we respond like this to equivalent questions on climate science we are accused of being defensive or not knowing etc.

5. Why do you believe there aren’t climate scientists who believe in anthropogenic global warming with similar high profiles as Professor Plimer and Professor Carter in the commercial media sector in Australia? Do you think this is something that needs to be addressed and if so, how?
Climate science is complex. It takes us 10-20 years to get to a point that we think we understand it. Explaining science that complex is challenging at the best of times, doing it when a radio host is cutting in, huffing and puffing, clearly laughing at what is decades of sound science or simply asserting that lies like ClimateGate represent a serious problem to the science, or that climate models are demonstrably wrong is probably impossible. In contrast, stating to a welcoming radio announcer that there is no proof that global warming is a problem and NOT BEING contested on this point is child's play. Yes, this should be addressed. I happen to believe that the commercial media sector should have a standard equivalent to the ABC - a requirement for accuracy, balance, rigor. I might comment that this is likely to happen the week after hell freezes over

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Soren on Mar 21st, 2011 at 11:05pm

Quote:
JULIA GILLARD: The scientific consensus is stronger than ever. Given these realities, I ask: who would I rather have on my side? Alan Jones, Piers Akerman and Andrew Bolt, or the CSIRO, the Australian Academy of Science, the Bureau of Meteorology, NASA, the US National Atmospheric Administration and every reputable climate scientist in the world


Is Julia asking the question in preparation for an academic conference or an election?



Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Prevailing on Mar 21st, 2011 at 11:23pm
The labour party is dangerously unhinged preaching scientific dictatorship - its time the coalition called them out on it in the parliament.  :D :D :D

JuLIAR has the science on her side.... ;D ;D ;D :o :o :o ;D ;D ;D



Thars a conversation stopper - we cant disagree with JuLIAR 'cause she got the science on her side which entitles her to lie and do anything she wants mandate or not. :)

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 7:01am

Please delete wrote on Mar 21st, 2011 at 2:29pm:
So now you're questioning EVERYTHING?


No, just how precise the science used to obtain past temperatures prior to records.
And guessing isn't science.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Ernie on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 7:31am

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 7:01am:

Please delete wrote on Mar 21st, 2011 at 2:29pm:
So now you're questioning EVERYTHING?


No, just how precise the science used to obtain past temperatures prior to records.
And guessing isn't science.


But that isn't restricted to NASA, that's everyone, every science, every scientist.

Were there dinosaurs? The evidence is compelling, but it is "just" evidence.

How did the universe form? Was there a Mediaeval Warm Period or a Little Ice Age? (Can't use those against GW if you are also going to question their occurrence, which has been deduced as much or more than measured).

You may as well go back to creationism to explain everything.


Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 9:14am

Please delete wrote on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 7:31am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 7:01am:

Please delete wrote on Mar 21st, 2011 at 2:29pm:
So now you're questioning EVERYTHING?


No, just how precise the science used to obtain past temperatures prior to records.
And guessing isn't science.


But that isn't restricted to NASA, that's everyone, every science, every scientist.

Were there dinosaurs? The evidence is compelling, but it is "just" evidence.

How did the universe form? Was there a Mediaeval Warm Period or a Little Ice Age? (Can't use those against GW if you are also going to question their occurrence, which has been deduced as much or more than measured).

You may as well go back to creationism to explain everything.


Not really, you would find that NASA, CSIRO and others are getting their information from other small groups of organisations or people who are peddling this tripe.
The reality is there is no solid way of determining past world average temperatures before weather stations.
It's all 'computer modelling', Arctic icypoles and guesswork.
And it's these figures that they are using to 'prove' global warming when they compare those guesstimated figures to todays average temps.
They were waffling on about '2010 being the hottest year on record', but neglected to mention that official records only go back to 1900.
They also left out the temperatures from Russia they had in their freezing winter which would have impacted on their '2010 hottest year on record' claim.
Seems to me they are selective in their use of statistics.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Deathridesahorse on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 8:09pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 7:01am:

Please delete wrote on Mar 21st, 2011 at 2:29pm:
So now you're questioning EVERYTHING?


No, just how precise the science used to obtain past temperatures prior to records.
And guessing isn't science.

This is legitimate enquiry!

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Deathridesahorse on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 8:13pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 9:14am:

Please delete wrote on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 7:31am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 7:01am:

Please delete wrote on Mar 21st, 2011 at 2:29pm:
So now you're questioning EVERYTHING?


No, just how precise the science used to obtain past temperatures prior to records.
And guessing isn't science.


But that isn't restricted to NASA, that's everyone, every science, every scientist.

Were there dinosaurs? The evidence is compelling, but it is "just" evidence.

How did the universe form? Was there a Mediaeval Warm Period or a Little Ice Age? (Can't use those against GW if you are also going to question their occurrence, which has been deduced as much or more than measured).

You may as well go back to creationism to explain everything.


Not really, you would find that NASA, CSIRO and others are getting their information from other small groups of organisations or people who are peddling this tripe.
The reality is there is no solid way of determining past world average temperatures before weather stations.
It's all 'computer modelling', Arctic icypoles and guesswork.
And it's these figures that they are using to 'prove' global warming when they compare those guesstimated figures to todays average temps.
They were waffling on about '2010 being the hottest year on record', but neglected to mention that official records only go back to 1900.
They also left out the temperatures from Russia they had in their freezing winter which would have impacted on their '2010 hottest year on record' claim.
Seems to me they are selective in their use of statistics.

Ya gotta be sceptical: that is what good science is all about!


Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Deathridesahorse on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 8:13pm
http://ecolocalizer.com/tag/madfasttrains-com/

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by qikvtec on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 8:37pm

GrandPaPa wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 10:07am:
philperth said:
I have no problem with anyone questioning the science of climate change....feel free to provide all the evidence available so people can make an informed decision.....People should never blindly accept anything that is said to them.....However as every government on Earth has agreed the science is correct and action is required I fail to see how they could all be so wrong......I do not think all these countries would be advocating such a drastic change in the world economy unless there was truth in it....why would they do this to there own economies if climate change was crap....I think it is more a case of seeking an advantage than accepting there is a problem.....The debate is being driven by self interest not the science???      


Spot on philperth, and I'd suggest for self-interest read MONEY.....
In this world political types readily cast aside morality and common sense if these impinge in any way upon their lust for the tax dollar!
One has only to consider the Australian state governments' full-blown, completely immoral attachment to the gambling industry teat!
And of course we all know that doyen of the human climate change cult, Al Gore, isn't into it for the megabucks.....yeah right!!


Are you suggesting for a second that an ETS won't be the biggest speculative bubble of all time?  I'll do my best to exploit it if it comes in.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by qikvtec on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 8:42pm

Please delete wrote on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 7:31am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 7:01am:

Please delete wrote on Mar 21st, 2011 at 2:29pm:
So now you're questioning EVERYTHING?


No, just how precise the science used to obtain past temperatures prior to records.
And guessing isn't science.


But that isn't restricted to NASA, that's everyone, every science, every scientist.

Were there dinosaurs? The evidence is compelling, but it is "just" evidence.

How did the universe form? Was there a Mediaeval Warm Period or a Little Ice Age? (Can't use those against GW if you are also going to question their occurrence, which has been deduced as much or more than measured).

You may as well go back to creationism to explain everything.


Prove without assumption that 1+1=2

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Deathridesahorse on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 8:56pm

qikvtec wrote on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 8:37pm:

GrandPaPa wrote on Mar 18th, 2011 at 10:07am:
philperth said:
I have no problem with anyone questioning the science of climate change....feel free to provide all the evidence available so people can make an informed decision.....People should never blindly accept anything that is said to them.....However as every government on Earth has agreed the science is correct and action is required I fail to see how they could all be so wrong......I do not think all these countries would be advocating such a drastic change in the world economy unless there was truth in it....why would they do this to there own economies if climate change was crap....I think it is more a case of seeking an advantage than accepting there is a problem.....The debate is being driven by self interest not the science???      


Spot on philperth, and I'd suggest for self-interest read MONEY.....
In this world political types readily cast aside morality and common sense if these impinge in any way upon their lust for the tax dollar!
One has only to consider the Australian state governments' full-blown, completely immoral attachment to the gambling industry teat!
And of course we all know that doyen of the human climate change cult, Al Gore, isn't into it for the megabucks.....yeah right!!


Are you suggesting for a second that an ETS won't be the biggest speculative bubble of all time?  I'll do my best to exploit it if it comes in.

Don't hide that light will ya......  :o :o ::)

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 23rd, 2011 at 7:23am

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 8:13pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 9:14am:

Please delete wrote on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 7:31am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 22nd, 2011 at 7:01am:

Please delete wrote on Mar 21st, 2011 at 2:29pm:
So now you're questioning EVERYTHING?


No, just how precise the science used to obtain past temperatures prior to records.
And guessing isn't science.


But that isn't restricted to NASA, that's everyone, every science, every scientist.

Were there dinosaurs? The evidence is compelling, but it is "just" evidence.

How did the universe form? Was there a Mediaeval Warm Period or a Little Ice Age? (Can't use those against GW if you are also going to question their occurrence, which has been deduced as much or more than measured).

You may as well go back to creationism to explain everything.


Not really, you would find that NASA, CSIRO and others are getting their information from other small groups of organisations or people who are peddling this tripe.
The reality is there is no solid way of determining past world average temperatures before weather stations.
It's all 'computer modelling', Arctic icypoles and guesswork.
And it's these figures that they are using to 'prove' global warming when they compare those guesstimated figures to todays average temps.
They were waffling on about '2010 being the hottest year on record', but neglected to mention that official records only go back to 1900.
They also left out the temperatures from Russia they had in their freezing winter which would have impacted on their '2010 hottest year on record' claim.
Seems to me they are selective in their use of statistics.

Ya gotta be sceptical: that is what good science is all about!



Well considering the experts have a 50/50 chance of getting tomorrows weather picked correctly, what chance to they have from guesstimating 200 years ago.
Although to give credit where credit is due, they are very good at picking yesterdays weather.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by mozzaok on Mar 23rd, 2011 at 10:12am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 21st, 2011 at 10:13pm:
http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s3169309.htm


Climate Scienists side of the story
Full transcript and video at link

I think ACMA just might have enough official complaints after tonight
Imagine parrot having to sit there and have his lies picked apart. ;D


Quote:
From: David Karoly Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 5:20 AM To: Jonathan Holmes Subject: Review of Carter's Book in 2010
Hi Jonathan, I have received emails from several people asking me about my review of Bob Carter’s book, Climate: The Counter-Consensus, which is being prepared for Robin Williams Science Show. I have read the book twice but not yet completed my review in writing. A general comment on the book: While it has fewer gross errors than Ian Plimer’s book Heaven+Earth, it is a mixture of scientific facts with misinformation and misinterpretation, as well as outright errors, spun around a framework of personal opinion. Its conclusions are inconsistent with any scientific assessment of climate change prepared by any major national or international scientific body, such as the US National Research Council, the British Royal Society, the Australian Academy of Science, or the IPCC. His claims of a counter-consensus on climate change based on sound science are wrong. Best wishes, David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Prof David Karoly School of Earth Sciences University of Melbourne, VIC 3010, AUSTRALIA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


[quote]No science in Plimer's primer Michael Ashley From: The Australian May 09, 2009 12:00AM
Heaven and Earth By Ian Plimer Connor Court, 503pp, $39.95 ONE of the peculiar things about being an astronomer is that you receive, from time to time, monographs on topics such as "a new theory of the electric universe", or "Einstein was wrong", or "the moon landings were a hoax".

The writings are always earnest, often involve conspiracy theories and are scientifically worthless. One such document that arrived last week was Ian Plimer's Heaven and Earth. What makes this case unusual is that Plimer is a professor -- of mining geology -- at the University of Adelaide. If the subject were anything less serious than the future habitability of the planet Earth, I wouldn't go to the trouble of writing this review.

Plimer sets out to refute the scientific consensus that human emissions of CO2 have changed the climate. He states in his acknowledgments that the book evolved from a dinner in London with three young lawyers who believed the consensus. As Plimer writes: "Although these three had more than adequate intellectual material to destroy the popular paradigm, they had neither the scientific knowledge nor the scientific training to pull it apart stitch by stitch. This was done at dinner."

This is a remarkable claim. If Plimer is right and he is able to show that the work of literally thousands of oceanographers, solar physicists, biologists, atmospheric scientists, geologists, and snow and ice researchers during the past 100 years is fundamentally flawed, then it would rank as one of the greatest discoveries of the century and would almost certainly earn him a Nobel prize. This is the scale of Plimer's claim.



Quote:
4. Have you been invited onto a commercial radio talk program in the last year but declined? If so, when was that, what program was it and why did you decline?
Yes - the invitation was general and I declined - John Law's program. I declined because based on my limited experience of commercial radio I do not think they are actually interested in being informed on the science. It is very hard to calmly respond to questions that are ill-informed and misrepresent anything vaguely scientific. It would be like asking a cardiologist to respond to the well known theory that humans do not have a heart and cardiologists only claim we have a heart so they can make lots of money claiming to operate on them. This is so utterly without foundation that it is actually hard to say anything but "that is stupid". If we respond like this to equivalent questions on climate science we are accused of being defensive or not knowing etc.

5. Why do you believe there aren’t climate scientists who believe in anthropogenic global warming with similar high profiles as Professor Plimer and Professor Carter in the commercial media sector in Australia? Do you think this is something that needs to be addressed and if so, how?
Climate science is complex. It takes us 10-20 years to get to a point that we think we understand it. Explaining science that complex is challenging at the best of times, doing it when a radio host is cutting in, huffing and puffing, clearly laughing at what is decades of sound science or simply asserting that lies like ClimateGate represent a serious problem to the science, or that climate models are demonstrably wrong is probably impossible. In contrast, stating to a welcoming radio announcer that there is no proof that global warming is a problem and NOT BEING contested on this point is child's play. Yes, this should be addressed. I happen to believe that the commercial media sector should have a standard equivalent to the ABC - a requirement for accuracy, balance, rigor. I might comment that this is likely to happen the week after hell freezes over
[/quote]
Great Post Smithy.
How hard must it be  for scientists to see this?

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Deathridesahorse on Mar 23rd, 2011 at 6:25pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 23rd, 2011 at 7:23am:
Well considering the experts have a 50/50 chance of getting tomorrows weather picked correctly, what chance to they have from guesstimating 200 years ago.
Although to give credit where credit is due, they are very good at picking yesterdays weather.

With logic like that I don't think you're going to remain too much of a roadblock!

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Maqqa on Mar 23rd, 2011 at 10:27pm
Anyone catch Question Time today?

Labor's answer to every question started with "Climate Change deniers...."

Anyone who questioned the tax was labeled a Climate Change denier

Anyone who questions the GST in the future shall be known as Goods and Services denier

Gillard then labels the protesters as "extremists" for calling her a liar. So anyone who calls Gillard a liar is now labeled an EXTREMIST??

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by perceptions_now on Mar 23rd, 2011 at 10:31pm

Maqqa wrote on Mar 23rd, 2011 at 10:27pm:
Anyone catch Question Time today?

Labor's answer to every question started with "Climate Change deniers...."

Anyone who questioned the tax was labeled a Climate Change denier

Anyone who questions the GST in the future shall be known as Goods and Services denier


maqqa, slr, mellie,
Well I question the ETS or ET's!

But, I think I can still introduce you, as a Climate Change denier!

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Maqqa on Mar 23rd, 2011 at 10:36pm

perceptions_now wrote on Mar 23rd, 2011 at 10:31pm:
maqqa, slr, mellie,
Well I question the ETS or ET's!

But, I think I can still introduce you, as a Climate Change denier!


I've never hidden my ID so not sure what the issue is!

on the other point - I am not denying anything about the climate change

FACT - Climate change every minute of the day

FACT - you guys have yet to provide conclusive proof that global warming is mainly attributed to man

you can't even get your accusations right!!

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by mavisdavis on Mar 24th, 2011 at 8:17am

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 23rd, 2011 at 6:25pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 23rd, 2011 at 7:23am:
Well considering the experts have a 50/50 chance of getting tomorrows weather picked correctly, what chance to they have from guesstimating 200 years ago.
Although to give credit where credit is due, they are very good at picking yesterdays weather.

With logic like that I don't think you're going to remain too much of a roadblock!



On the highway to Scamsville.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 24th, 2011 at 10:15am

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Mar 23rd, 2011 at 6:25pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 23rd, 2011 at 7:23am:
Well considering the experts have a 50/50 chance of getting tomorrows weather picked correctly, what chance to they have from guesstimating 200 years ago.
Although to give credit where credit is due, they are very good at picking yesterdays weather.

With logic like that I don't think you're going to remain too much of a roadblock!


A road to where I wonder.
Either way, it was never my intention to be a roadblock.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 24th, 2011 at 10:36am

Maqqa wrote on Mar 23rd, 2011 at 10:27pm:
Anyone catch Question Time today?

Labor's answer to every question started with "Climate Change deniers...."

Anyone who questioned the tax was labeled a Climate Change denier

Anyone who questions the GST in the future shall be known as Goods and Services denier

Gillard then labels the protesters as "extremists" for calling her a liar. So anyone who calls Gillard a liar is now labeled an EXTREMIST??


This is how they work maqqa.
But in the end it's only names, and it doesn't matter.
What does matter is when the scientists come up with something more credible than guesswork, estimates, extrapolation and computer modelling as the basis for their claims that the earth is in fact warming let alone that humans impact on the climate is as they we are then they can be taken a bit more serious.
It seems that the law of probabilities, predictions and extrapolation now takes precedence over cold hard facts in science today.
It also seems that their scientific standards have dropped somewhat.
If the Druids were still around today, they would be smiling at this.
Al Gore isn't too concerned anymore either, dispite the hysterical storm created by his book that he made millions from.
His nice new $8.8 million luxury Villa stands right on the beachfront in California, and I suspect he doesn't beleive it's going underwater anytime soon either.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by mozzaok on Mar 24th, 2011 at 11:33am
I liked how the talkback radio interviewers asked members of the crowd at the Carbon Tax Rally, if they were extremists?

Amazingly, none of them considered themselves extremists, lmao,  they were all the epitome of fair minded, and balanced Australians, in their own eyes.

Seriously, how many nutters think of themselves in that way, and how many think that they are amonga small handful of sane ones, and the other 99.99% of people are the wacky, delusional ones?

The crowd should have been polled to ask how many of them believed that AGW was really a giant conspiracy, organised by either, scientists wanting grant money, or by left wing extremists seeking to destroy western society, or a Zionist plot, for secret zionisty reasons, lol(my favourite of the lot).

I would also liked to have had the crowd polled to ask how many of them believed that Abbott had really accepted that AGW was real, or that he just has to say that now, because that is what the public expects a political leader to say, but deep down they know he still believes it is "ABSOLUTE CRAP", just like they do.

My guess would be that the majority of those who were there yesterday, would have been of the more extreme AGW denial mindset, and a very significant number would ascribe to one of the conspiracy theories, and would also believe that Abbott actually still agreed with them on those key points.

Extremists??

You decide.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Soren on Mar 29th, 2011 at 8:45am
Bad news - world's not coming to an end, after all. Bummer.

Without sea-level acceleration, the 20th-century sea-level trend of 1.7 mm/y would produce a rise of only approximately 0.15 m from 2010 to 2100; therefore, sea-level acceleration is a critical component of projected sea-level rise. To determine this acceleration, we analyze monthly-averaged records for 57 U.S. tide gauges in the Permanent Service for Mean Sea Level (PSMSL) data base that have lengths of 60–156 years. Least-squares quadratic analysis of each of the 57 records are performed to quantify accelerations, and 25 gauge records having data spanning from 1930 to 2010 are analyzed. In both cases we obtain small average sea-level decelerations. To compare these results with worldwide data, we extend the analysis of Douglas (1992) by an additional 25 years and analyze revised data of Church and White (2006) from 1930 to 2007 and also obtain small sea-level decelerations similar to those we obtain from U.S. gauge records.
http://www.jcronline.org/doi/abs/10.2112/JCOASTRES-D-10-00157.1

By a couple of right-wing nutters, surely?  Er... no.

J. R. Houston, Director Emeritus, Engineer Research and Development Center, Corps of Engineers, 3909 Halls Ferry Road, Vicksburg, MS 39180, U.S.A. james.r.houston@usace.army.mil

R. G. Dean, Professor Emeritus, Department of Civil and Coastal Civil Engineering, University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32611, U.S.A. dean@coastal.ufl.edu




Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Ernie on Mar 29th, 2011 at 8:55am
Did you access the whole article? All you are quoting is the abstract.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Ernie on Mar 29th, 2011 at 8:56am
And I don't understand what the relevance is (but then I have a head cold, so my thinking is definitely sluggish)

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Deathridesahorse on Mar 30th, 2011 at 9:13pm

mozzaok wrote on Mar 24th, 2011 at 11:33am:
I liked how the talkback radio interviewers asked members of the crowd at the Carbon Tax Rally, if they were extremists?

Amazingly, none of them considered themselves extremists, lmao,  they were all the epitome of fair minded, and balanced Australians, in their own eyes.

Seriously, how many nutters think of themselves in that way, and how many think that they are amonga small handful of sane ones, and the other 99.99% of people are the wacky, delusional ones?

The crowd should have been polled to ask how many of them believed that AGW was really a giant conspiracy, organised by either, scientists wanting grant money, or by left wing extremists seeking to destroy western society, or a Zionist plot, for secret zionisty reasons, lol(my favourite of the lot).

I would also liked to have had the crowd polled to ask how many of them believed that Abbott had really accepted that AGW was real, or that he just has to say that now, because that is what the public expects a political leader to say, but deep down they know he still believes it is "ABSOLUTE CRAP", just like they do.

My guess would be that the majority of those who were there yesterday, would have been of the more extreme AGW denial mindset, and a very significant number would ascribe to one of the conspiracy theories, and would also believe that Abbott actually still agreed with them on those key points.

Extremists??

You decide.

Andrew Bolt accused Tony Abbott two Sundays before last ON THE INSIDERS of acting on Climate Change without believing in Climate Change.

It's not a secret or anything!

It is Australias worst kept secret that Tony is acting on Climate Change without believing in Climate Change.  :-[ :-[ :-[ 8-) ;D ;D

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 31st, 2011 at 7:22am

mozzaok wrote on Mar 24th, 2011 at 11:33am:
I liked how the talkback radio interviewers asked members of the crowd at the Carbon Tax Rally, if they were extremists?

Amazingly, none of them considered themselves extremists, lmao,  they were all the epitome of fair minded, and balanced Australians, in their own eyes.

Seriously, how many nutters think of themselves in that way, and how many think that they are amonga small handful of sane ones, and the other 99.99% of people are the wacky, delusional ones?

The crowd should have been polled to ask how many of them believed that AGW was really a giant conspiracy, organised by either, scientists wanting grant money, or by left wing extremists seeking to destroy western society, or a Zionist plot, for secret zionisty reasons, lol(my favourite of the lot).

I would also liked to have had the crowd polled to ask how many of them believed that Abbott had really accepted that AGW was real, or that he just has to say that now, because that is what the public expects a political leader to say, but deep down they know he still believes it is "ABSOLUTE CRAP", just like they do.

My guess would be that the majority of those who were there yesterday, would have been of the more extreme AGW denial mindset, and a very significant number would ascribe to one of the conspiracy theories, and would also believe that Abbott actually still agreed with them on those key points.

Extremists??

You decide.


Well they must be extremists and nutters.
Who wouldn't want another tax burden placed upon struggling working families.
Let them eat cake.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by dsmithy70 on Mar 31st, 2011 at 9:13am

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 7:22am:

mozzaok wrote on Mar 24th, 2011 at 11:33am:
I liked how the talkback radio interviewers asked members of the crowd at the Carbon Tax Rally, if they were extremists?

Amazingly, none of them considered themselves extremists, lmao,  they were all the epitome of fair minded, and balanced Australians, in their own eyes.

Seriously, how many nutters think of themselves in that way, and how many think that they are amonga small handful of sane ones, and the other 99.99% of people are the wacky, delusional ones?

The crowd should have been polled to ask how many of them believed that AGW was really a giant conspiracy, organised by either, scientists wanting grant money, or by left wing extremists seeking to destroy western society, or a Zionist plot, for secret zionisty reasons, lol(my favourite of the lot).

I would also liked to have had the crowd polled to ask how many of them believed that Abbott had really accepted that AGW was real, or that he just has to say that now, because that is what the public expects a political leader to say, but deep down they know he still believes it is "ABSOLUTE CRAP", just like they do.

My guess would be that the majority of those who were there yesterday, would have been of the more extreme AGW denial mindset, and a very significant number would ascribe to one of the conspiracy theories, and would also believe that Abbott actually still agreed with them on those key points.

Extremists??

You decide.


Well they must be extremists and nutters.
Who wouldn't want another tax burden placed upon struggling working families.
Let them eat cake.



Well if Abbott had supported the mining tax we could have used that revenue to combat CC.
No burden on any struggling working families, but no the billionaires & the multi national companies bottom line came before Australians for Tony & his supporters, how about you chook were you in favour or one of the ones predicting complete economic collaspe as the miners & shareholders took their bat & ball home because instead of a 10 billion 1/2 year profit it may have been 8, no sense working for that piddly profit eh.(that's PROFIT not turnover)

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 31st, 2011 at 9:54am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 9:13am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 7:22am:

mozzaok wrote on Mar 24th, 2011 at 11:33am:
I liked how the talkback radio interviewers asked members of the crowd at the Carbon Tax Rally, if they were extremists?

Amazingly, none of them considered themselves extremists, lmao,  they were all the epitome of fair minded, and balanced Australians, in their own eyes.

Seriously, how many nutters think of themselves in that way, and how many think that they are amonga small handful of sane ones, and the other 99.99% of people are the wacky, delusional ones?

The crowd should have been polled to ask how many of them believed that AGW was really a giant conspiracy, organised by either, scientists wanting grant money, or by left wing extremists seeking to destroy western society, or a Zionist plot, for secret zionisty reasons, lol(my favourite of the lot).

I would also liked to have had the crowd polled to ask how many of them believed that Abbott had really accepted that AGW was real, or that he just has to say that now, because that is what the public expects a political leader to say, but deep down they know he still believes it is "ABSOLUTE CRAP", just like they do.

My guess would be that the majority of those who were there yesterday, would have been of the more extreme AGW denial mindset, and a very significant number would ascribe to one of the conspiracy theories, and would also believe that Abbott actually still agreed with them on those key points.

Extremists??

You decide.


Well they must be extremists and nutters.
Who wouldn't want another tax burden placed upon struggling working families.
Let them eat cake.



Well if Abbott had supported the mining tax we could have used that revenue to combat CC.
No burden on any struggling working families, but no the billionaires & the multi national companies bottom line came before Australians for Tony & his supporters, how about you chook were you in favour or one of the ones predicting complete economic collaspe as the miners & shareholders took their bat & ball home because instead of a 10 billion 1/2 year profit it may have been 8, no sense working for that piddly profit eh.(that's PROFIT not turnover)


There was no air tax when Abbott wasn't supporting the mining tax.
And that was right up until the election.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by dsmithy70 on Mar 31st, 2011 at 10:01am

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 9:54am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 9:13am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 7:22am:

mozzaok wrote on Mar 24th, 2011 at 11:33am:
I liked how the talkback radio interviewers asked members of the crowd at the Carbon Tax Rally, if they were extremists?

Amazingly, none of them considered themselves extremists, lmao,  they were all the epitome of fair minded, and balanced Australians, in their own eyes.

Seriously, how many nutters think of themselves in that way, and how many think that they are amonga small handful of sane ones, and the other 99.99% of people are the wacky, delusional ones?

The crowd should have been polled to ask how many of them believed that AGW was really a giant conspiracy, organised by either, scientists wanting grant money, or by left wing extremists seeking to destroy western society, or a Zionist plot, for secret zionisty reasons, lol(my favourite of the lot).

I would also liked to have had the crowd polled to ask how many of them believed that Abbott had really accepted that AGW was real, or that he just has to say that now, because that is what the public expects a political leader to say, but deep down they know he still believes it is "ABSOLUTE CRAP", just like they do.

My guess would be that the majority of those who were there yesterday, would have been of the more extreme AGW denial mindset, and a very significant number would ascribe to one of the conspiracy theories, and would also believe that Abbott actually still agreed with them on those key points.

Extremists??

You decide.


Well they must be extremists and nutters.
Who wouldn't want another tax burden placed upon struggling working families.
Let them eat cake.



Well if Abbott had supported the mining tax we could have used that revenue to combat CC.
No burden on any struggling working families, but no the billionaires & the multi national companies bottom line came before Australians for Tony & his supporters, how about you chook were you in favour or one of the ones predicting complete economic collaspe as the miners & shareholders took their bat & ball home because instead of a 10 billion 1/2 year profit it may have been 8, no sense working for that piddly profit eh.(that's PROFIT not turnover)


There was no air tax when Abbott wasn't supporting the mining tax.
And that was right up until the election.


That does not answer my question, did you support Australia's struggling families who you are now using to support your argument or did you blindly follow Tony and support multi billionaires continuing to profit handsomely?

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 31st, 2011 at 2:05pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 10:01am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 9:54am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 9:13am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 7:22am:

mozzaok wrote on Mar 24th, 2011 at 11:33am:
I liked how the talkback radio interviewers asked members of the crowd at the Carbon Tax Rally, if they were extremists?

Amazingly, none of them considered themselves extremists, lmao,  they were all the epitome of fair minded, and balanced Australians, in their own eyes.

Seriously, how many nutters think of themselves in that way, and how many think that they are amonga small handful of sane ones, and the other 99.99% of people are the wacky, delusional ones?

The crowd should have been polled to ask how many of them believed that AGW was really a giant conspiracy, organised by either, scientists wanting grant money, or by left wing extremists seeking to destroy western society, or a Zionist plot, for secret zionisty reasons, lol(my favourite of the lot).

I would also liked to have had the crowd polled to ask how many of them believed that Abbott had really accepted that AGW was real, or that he just has to say that now, because that is what the public expects a political leader to say, but deep down they know he still believes it is "ABSOLUTE CRAP", just like they do.

My guess would be that the majority of those who were there yesterday, would have been of the more extreme AGW denial mindset, and a very significant number would ascribe to one of the conspiracy theories, and would also believe that Abbott actually still agreed with them on those key points.

Extremists??

You decide.


Well they must be extremists and nutters.
Who wouldn't want another tax burden placed upon struggling working families.
Let them eat cake.



Well if Abbott had supported the mining tax we could have used that revenue to combat CC.
No burden on any struggling working families, but no the billionaires & the multi national companies bottom line came before Australians for Tony & his supporters, how about you chook were you in favour or one of the ones predicting complete economic collaspe as the miners & shareholders took their bat & ball home because instead of a 10 billion 1/2 year profit it may have been 8, no sense working for that piddly profit eh.(that's PROFIT not turnover)


There was no air tax when Abbott wasn't supporting the mining tax.
And that was right up until the election.


That does not answer my question, did you support Australia's struggling families who you are now using to support your argument or did you blindly follow Tony and support multi billionaires continuing to profit handsomely?


It was because of the mining multi billionaires, that Howard was able to leave so much of a surplus behind ($20B) when he left which did support struggling families.
And further support them in the three income tax cuts working families received.
You know about the surplus, the one Rudd & Swan & Gillard wasted like a couple of fat kids in a lolly shop with a pocket full of change.
So we would like our multi billionaires to keep profiting handsomely whilst paying their taxes.
And we want their companies to grow and expand accordingly to support Australias struggling working families.
Because this country will need them once again to pay off Labors financial mismanagement.
Whats that saying from a past election some years ago.
Q. How does Labor start a small business.
A. Give them a large business first and just watch them. ;D ;D
That's as funny now as it was then.
And unfortunately so bloody true.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by dsmithy70 on Mar 31st, 2011 at 2:18pm

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 2:05pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 10:01am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 9:54am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 9:13am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 7:22am:

mozzaok wrote on Mar 24th, 2011 at 11:33am:
I liked how the talkback radio interviewers asked members of the crowd at the Carbon Tax Rally, if they were extremists?

Amazingly, none of them considered themselves extremists, lmao,  they were all the epitome of fair minded, and balanced Australians, in their own eyes.

Seriously, how many nutters think of themselves in that way, and how many think that they are amonga small handful of sane ones, and the other 99.99% of people are the wacky, delusional ones?

The crowd should have been polled to ask how many of them believed that AGW was really a giant conspiracy, organised by either, scientists wanting grant money, or by left wing extremists seeking to destroy western society, or a Zionist plot, for secret zionisty reasons, lol(my favourite of the lot).

I would also liked to have had the crowd polled to ask how many of them believed that Abbott had really accepted that AGW was real, or that he just has to say that now, because that is what the public expects a political leader to say, but deep down they know he still believes it is "ABSOLUTE CRAP", just like they do.

My guess would be that the majority of those who were there yesterday, would have been of the more extreme AGW denial mindset, and a very significant number would ascribe to one of the conspiracy theories, and would also believe that Abbott actually still agreed with them on those key points.

Extremists??

You decide.


Well they must be extremists and nutters.
Who wouldn't want another tax burden placed upon struggling working families.
Let them eat cake.



Well if Abbott had supported the mining tax we could have used that revenue to combat CC.
No burden on any struggling working families, but no the billionaires & the multi national companies bottom line came before Australians for Tony & his supporters, how about you chook were you in favour or one of the ones predicting complete economic collaspe as the miners & shareholders took their bat & ball home because instead of a 10 billion 1/2 year profit it may have been 8, no sense working for that piddly profit eh.(that's PROFIT not turnover)


There was no air tax when Abbott wasn't supporting the mining tax.
And that was right up until the election.


That does not answer my question, did you support Australia's struggling families who you are now using to support your argument or did you blindly follow Tony and support multi billionaires continuing to profit handsomely?


It was because of the mining multi billionaires, that Howard was able to leave so much of a surplus behind ($20B) when he left which did support struggling families.
And further support them in the three income tax cuts working families received.
You know about the surplus, the one Rudd & Swan & Gillard wasted like a couple of fat kids in a lolly shop with a pocket full of change.
So we would like our multi billionaires to keep profiting handsomely whilst paying their taxes.
And we want their companies to grow and expand accordingly to support Australias struggling working families.
Because this country will need them once again to pay off Labors financial mismanagement.
Whats that saying from a past election some years ago.
Q. How does Labor start a small business.
A. Give them a large business first and just watch them. ;D ;D
That's as funny now as it was then.
And unfortunately so bloody true.


And there we go again.
Conviently forgetting the worlds biggest economic meltdown since the depression.
We also will ignore that those tax cuts given by Howard also fueled inflation which in turn caused interest rates to rise causing more money to go out of those struggling budgets than was returned by the cuts in the 1st place.
The rest is just bullsh!t
Business prospers under whatever government of the day.
Oh & your also forgetting that Swan is fixated on returning the budget to surplus by 2013 which also happens to be an election year, so you liberal mangers of debt will not be required.
P.S I'm not supporting Swan in his quest I'm one of the silly people who think our country could quite easily service a modest debt & even be better for it, but if he doesn't get that surplus I'm sure you'll be here to whine ;)

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Mar 31st, 2011 at 2:40pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 2:18pm:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 2:05pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 10:01am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 9:54am:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 9:13am:

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 7:22am:

mozzaok wrote on Mar 24th, 2011 at 11:33am:
I liked how the talkback radio interviewers asked members of the crowd at the Carbon Tax Rally, if they were extremists?

Amazingly, none of them considered themselves extremists, lmao,  they were all the epitome of fair minded, and balanced Australians, in their own eyes.

Seriously, how many nutters think of themselves in that way, and how many think that they are amonga small handful of sane ones, and the other 99.99% of people are the wacky, delusional ones?

The crowd should have been polled to ask how many of them believed that AGW was really a giant conspiracy, organised by either, scientists wanting grant money, or by left wing extremists seeking to destroy western society, or a Zionist plot, for secret zionisty reasons, lol(my favourite of the lot).

I would also liked to have had the crowd polled to ask how many of them believed that Abbott had really accepted that AGW was real, or that he just has to say that now, because that is what the public expects a political leader to say, but deep down they know he still believes it is "ABSOLUTE CRAP", just like they do.

My guess would be that the majority of those who were there yesterday, would have been of the more extreme AGW denial mindset, and a very significant number would ascribe to one of the conspiracy theories, and would also believe that Abbott actually still agreed with them on those key points.

Extremists??

You decide.


Well they must be extremists and nutters.
Who wouldn't want another tax burden placed upon struggling working families.
Let them eat cake.



Well if Abbott had supported the mining tax we could have used that revenue to combat CC.
No burden on any struggling working families, but no the billionaires & the multi national companies bottom line came before Australians for Tony & his supporters, how about you chook were you in favour or one of the ones predicting complete economic collaspe as the miners & shareholders took their bat & ball home because instead of a 10 billion 1/2 year profit it may have been 8, no sense working for that piddly profit eh.(that's PROFIT not turnover)


There was no air tax when Abbott wasn't supporting the mining tax.
And that was right up until the election.


That does not answer my question, did you support Australia's struggling families who you are now using to support your argument or did you blindly follow Tony and support multi billionaires continuing to profit handsomely?


It was because of the mining multi billionaires, that Howard was able to leave so much of a surplus behind ($20B) when he left which did support struggling families.
And further support them in the three income tax cuts working families received.
You know about the surplus, the one Rudd & Swan & Gillard wasted like a couple of fat kids in a lolly shop with a pocket full of change.
So we would like our multi billionaires to keep profiting handsomely whilst paying their taxes.
And we want their companies to grow and expand accordingly to support Australias struggling working families.
Because this country will need them once again to pay off Labors financial mismanagement.
Whats that saying from a past election some years ago.
Q. How does Labor start a small business.
A. Give them a large business first and just watch them. ;D ;D
That's as funny now as it was then.
And unfortunately so bloody true.


And there we go again.
Conviently forgetting the worlds biggest economic meltdown since the depression.
We also will ignore that those tax cuts given by Howard also fueled inflation which in turn caused interest rates to rise causing more money to go out of those struggling budgets than was returned by the cuts in the 1st place.
The rest is just bullsh!t
Business prospers under whatever government of the day.
Oh & your also forgetting that Swan is fixated on returning the budget to surplus by 2013 which also happens to be an election year, so you liberal mangers of debt will not be required.
P.S I'm not supporting Swan in his quest I'm one of the silly people who think our country could quite easily service a modest debt & even be better for it, but if he doesn't get that surplus I'm sure you'll be here to whine ;)


Like a rat up a drainpipe smithy.
And whining louder than ever.
And Swan may well be committed to a surplus by 2013, but like everything else with this mob, it will turn to custard.
Personally, I wouldn't trust Swan to balance the office petty cash tin let alone this countries budget.
The man has the ring of a dunderclumper around him.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by dsmithy70 on Mar 31st, 2011 at 3:04pm

Quote:
Like a rat up a drainpipe smithy.
And whining louder than ever.

;D noice


Quote:
And Swan may well be committed to a surplus by 2013, but like everything else with this mob, it will turn to custard.

It would not surprise me


Quote:
Personally, I wouldn't trust Swan to balance the office petty cash tin let alone this countries budget.
The man has the ring of a dunderclumper around him.

Agreed

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by stryder110011 on Mar 31st, 2011 at 7:05pm

Quote:
However as every government on Earth has agreed the science is correct and action is required I fail to see how they could all be so wrong....I do not think all these countries would be advocating such a drastic change in the world economy unless there was truth in it....why would they do this to there own economies if climate change was crap....I think it is more a case of seeking an advantage than accepting there is a problem.....The debate is being driven by self interest not the science???      


Lots of people dont completely trust politicians and governments a 100% on a wide range of issues, AND PHILPERTH ON THIS ISSUE ALONE WANTS TO SURRENDER LOGIC AND OBJECTIVITY AND BELIEVE IN THE GOVERNMENT A 100%

First and foremost, there is NO DEFINATIVE COMPLETE COLD HARD IRREFUTABLE PROOF THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS CAUSED BY HUMANS.

Oh we have legions of scientist who believe without a doubt and are politically motivated enough to service the green leftist side of politics with endless questionable data and conclusions.

I mean HOW CAN A TAX ON CARBON IS GOING TO ASTRONOMICALLY REVERSE THIS CLIMATE CHANGE THAT THEY BRAG ON ABOUT AROUND THE GLOBE. ???

HELL, THERE IS NO WAY TO EVEN MEASURE IF THIS CARBON TAX COULD HAVE ANY EFFECT REVERSING CLIMATE CHANGE AT ALL AND TOP OF THAT, COMPROMISING OUR HIGH SUCCESSFUL RESOURCES INDUSTRY WITH A CARBON TAX AND A MINING TAX IS SHEER LABOR STUPIDITY.

No wonder Labor got kicked as hard as they did last saturday.

And these laborites never listen and learn,  ;D

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Equitist on Mar 31st, 2011 at 7:16pm




There is definitive proof that ancient humans created the concept of an omniscient and omnipotent doG - and yet today some of you seem convinced that the reverse is true...

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Apr 1st, 2011 at 8:36am

stryder wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 7:05pm:

Quote:
However as every government on Earth has agreed the science is correct and action is required I fail to see how they could all be so wrong....I do not think all these countries would be advocating such a drastic change in the world economy unless there was truth in it....why would they do this to there own economies if climate change was crap....I think it is more a case of seeking an advantage than accepting there is a problem.....The debate is being driven by self interest not the science???      


Lots of people dont completely trust politicians and governments a 100% on a wide range of issues, AND PHILPERTH ON THIS ISSUE ALONE WANTS TO SURRENDER LOGIC AND OBJECTIVITY AND BELIEVE IN THE GOVERNMENT A 100%

First and foremost, there is NO DEFINATIVE COMPLETE COLD HARD IRREFUTABLE PROOF THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS CAUSED BY HUMANS.

Oh we have legions of scientist who believe without a doubt and are politically motivated enough to service the green leftist side of politics with endless questionable data and conclusions.

I mean HOW CAN A TAX ON CARBON IS GOING TO ASTRONOMICALLY REVERSE THIS CLIMATE CHANGE THAT THEY BRAG ON ABOUT AROUND THE GLOBE. ???

HELL, THERE IS NO WAY TO EVEN MEASURE IF THIS CARBON TAX COULD HAVE ANY EFFECT REVERSING CLIMATE CHANGE AT ALL AND TOP OF THAT, COMPROMISING OUR HIGH SUCCESSFUL RESOURCES INDUSTRY WITH A CARBON TAX AND A MINING TAX IS SHEER LABOR STUPIDITY.

No wonder Labor got kicked as hard as they did last saturday.

And these laborites never listen and learn,  ;D


Trust politicians?
There only in on the act because they can smell money.

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Deathridesahorse on Apr 1st, 2011 at 3:06pm
STEVE CANNANE: But when I went back to Greg Hunt today, he said he defines 100 square kilometres as a hundred by a hundred, not 10 by 10.

source: http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3179336.htm

WHAT THE?  ::) ::) :-[

STEVE CANNANE: But when I went back to Greg Hunt today, he said he defines 100 square kilometres as a hundred by a hundred, not 10 by 10.

source: http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3179336.htm

WHAT THE?  ::) ::) :-[

STEVE CANNANE: But when I went back to Greg Hunt today, he said he defines 100 square kilometres as a hundred by a hundred, not 10 by 10.

source: http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3179336.htm

WHAT THE?  ::) ::) :-[

STEVE CANNANE: But when I went back to Greg Hunt today, he said he defines 100 square kilometres as a hundred by a hundred, not 10 by 10.

source: http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3179336.htm

WHAT THE?  ::) ::) :-[

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Deathridesahorse on Apr 1st, 2011 at 3:09pm

stryder wrote on Mar 31st, 2011 at 7:05pm:

Quote:
However as every government on Earth has agreed the science is correct and action is required I fail to see how they could all be so wrong....I do not think all these countries would be advocating such a drastic change in the world economy unless there was truth in it....why would they do this to there own economies if climate change was crap....I think it is more a case of seeking an advantage than accepting there is a problem.....The debate is being driven by self interest not the science???      


Lots of people dont completely trust politicians and governments a 100% on a wide range of issues, AND PHILPERTH ON THIS ISSUE ALONE WANTS TO SURRENDER LOGIC AND OBJECTIVITY AND BELIEVE IN THE GOVERNMENT A 100%

First and foremost, there is NO DEFINATIVE COMPLETE COLD HARD IRREFUTABLE PROOF THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS CAUSED BY HUMANS.

Oh we have legions of scientist who believe without a doubt and are politically motivated enough to service the green leftist side of politics with endless questionable data and conclusions.

I mean HOW CAN A TAX ON CARBON IS GOING TO ASTRONOMICALLY REVERSE THIS CLIMATE CHANGE THAT THEY BRAG ON ABOUT AROUND THE GLOBE. ???

HELL, THERE IS NO WAY TO EVEN MEASURE IF THIS CARBON TAX COULD HAVE ANY EFFECT REVERSING CLIMATE CHANGE AT ALL AND TOP OF THAT, COMPROMISING OUR HIGH SUCCESSFUL RESOURCES INDUSTRY WITH A CARBON TAX AND A MINING TAX IS SHEER LABOR STUPIDITY.

No wonder Labor got kicked as hard as they did last saturday.

And these laborites never listen and learn,  ;D

dON'T MARKETS MOTIVATE PEOPLE ASWELL ?!!?  ;) ;) :D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Labor demonising those who question the science
Post by Maqqa on Apr 3rd, 2011 at 9:00am
and who is the latest to be demonised?

GARNAUT!

The same Garnaut who they depended on during the 2007 election.

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