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Message started by abu_rashid on Feb 18th, 2011 at 7:05am

Title: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 18th, 2011 at 7:05am
All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 94% that Aren’t
Posted on 20 January 2010 by Danios

CNN recently published an article entitled Study: Threat of Muslim-American terrorism in U.S. exaggerated; according to a study released by Duke University and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, “the terrorist threat posed by radicalized Muslim-Americans has been exaggerated.”

Yet, Americans continue to live in mortal fear of radical Islam, a fear propagated and inflamed by right wing Islamophobes.  If one follows the cable news networks, it seems as if all terrorists are Muslims.  It has even become axiomatic in some circles to chant: “Not all Muslims are terrorists, but nearly all terrorists are Muslims.” Muslims and their “leftist dhimmi allies” respond feebly, mentioning Waco as the one counter example, unwittingly affirming the belief that “nearly all terrorists are Muslims.”

But perception is not reality.  The data simply does not support such a hasty conclusion.  On the FBI’s official website, there exists a chronological list of all terrorist attacks committed on U.S. soil from the year 1980 all the way to 2005.  That list can be accessed here (scroll down all the way to the bottom).

http://bit.ly/9tKmIp
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil by Group, From 1980 to 2005, According to FBI Database

According to this data, there were more Jewish acts of terrorism within the United States than Islamic (7% vs 6%).  These radical Jews committed acts of terrorism in the name of their religion.  These were not terrorists who happened to be Jews; rather, they were extremist Jews who committed acts of terrorism based on their religious passions, just like Al-Qaeda and company.

Yet notice the disparity in media coverage between the two.  It would indeed be very interesting to construct a corresponding pie chart that depicted the level of media coverage of each group.  The reason that Muslim apologists and their “leftist dhimmi allies” cannot recall another non-Islamic act of terrorism other than Waco is due to the fact that the media gives menial (if any) coverage to such events.  If a terrorist attack does not fit the “Islam is the perennial and existential threat of our times” narrative, it is simply not paid much attention to, which in a circuitous manner reinforces and “proves” the preconceived narrative.  It is to such an extent that the average American cannot remember any Jewish or Latino terrorist; why should he when he has never even heard of the Jewish Defense League or the Ejercito Popular Boricua Macheteros?  Surely what he does not know does not exist!

The Islamophobes claim that Islam is intrinsically a terrorist religion.  The proof?  Well, just about every terrorist attack is Islamic, they retort.  Unfortunately for them, that’s not quite true.  More like six percent.  Using their defunct logic, these right wingers ought now to conclude that nearly all acts of terrorism are committed by Latinos (or Jews).  Let them dare say it…they couldn’t; it would be political and social suicide to say such a thing. Most Americans would shut down such talk as bigoted; yet, similar statements continue to be said of Islam, without any repercussions.

The Islamophobes live in a fantasy world where everyone is supposedly too “politically correct” to criticize Islam and Muslims.  Yet, the reality is the exact opposite: you can get away with saying anything against the crescent.  Can you imagine the reaction if I said that Latinos should be profiled because after all they are the ones who commit the most terrorism in the country?  (For the record: I don’t believe in such profiling, because I am–unlike the right wing nutters–a believer in American ideals.)

The moral of the story is that Americans ought to calm down when it comes to Islamic terrorism.  Right wingers always live in mortal fear–or rather, they try to make you feel that way.  In fact, Pamela Geller (the queen of internet Islamophobia) literally said her mission was to “scare the bejeezus outta ya.” Don’t be fooled, and don’t be a wuss.  You don’t live in constant fear of radicalized Latinos (unless you’re Lou Dobbs), even though they commit seven times more acts of terrorism than Muslims in America.  Why then are you wetting yourself over Islamic radicals?  In the words of Cenk Uygur: you’re at a ten when you need to be at a four.  Nobody is saying that Islamic terrorism is not a matter of concern, but it’s grossly exaggerated.

Related Posts:

Europol report: All terrorists are Muslims…Except the 99.6% that aren’t

RAND report: Threat of homegrown jihadism exaggerated, Zero U.S. civilians killed since 9/11

Update:

A reader by the name of Dima added:

   
Quote:
The FBI Terrorism Report shows…[that] the highest number of terrorist incidents in the U.S. by region (90) took place in Puerto Rico.


Second Update:

An Islamophobe commented on this article, saying that the statistics are flawed because the FBI included small acts such as “stealing rats from a lab” as an act of terrorism.  Of course, this is patently false.  Here is a breakdown of the terrorist attacks by type (the pie chart is from the FBI’s official website and can be accessed here):

http://bit.ly/eT8w0R
Terrorism by Event, From 1980 to 2005, According to FBI Database

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by chicken_lipsforme on Feb 18th, 2011 at 7:45am
This just demonstrates that the precautions and travel restrictions that the US has in place is working.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by abo_rashid on Feb 18th, 2011 at 7:56am
abo terrorism boomerang in the world trade centre

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by gizmo_2655 on Feb 18th, 2011 at 8:19am


Quote:
[An Islamophobe commented on this article, saying that the statistics are flawed because the FBI included small acts such as “stealing rats from a lab” as an act of terrorism.  Of course, this is patently false.


I'd have to go along with the "Islamophobe".....Arson and robbery are almost always crimes committed for PROFIT, and while they may induce fear in the victims, that's hardly terrorism...

The same goes for assaults and shootings....

The FBI has relaxed the definition of Terrorism to the point where it's meaningless on these charts....

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Yadda on Feb 18th, 2011 at 8:41am
An important question;

HOW DO MOSLEMS DEFINE 'TERRORISM' ???



+++


The truth about ISLAM, from the lips of good moslems;

Cleric preaches that violence is part of Islam
01/05/2007
In documents seen by The Daily Telegraph, al-Muhajiroun claimed: "Terrorism is a part of Islam" and "Allah made it obligatory to prepare and to terrify the enemy of Allah".
The article advised: "The kuffar of USA and UK are without doubt our enemy. There is no such thing as an innocent kafir, innocence is only applicable for the Muslims. Not only is it obligatory to fight them, it is haram [forbidden] to feel sorry for them."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1550211/Cleric-preaches-that-violence-is-part-of-Islam.html

Such a doctrine is supported by many, many Koran and Hadith verses.



THE SOPHISTRY

Good moslems have declared to non-moslems, that they condemn 'terrorism'.

But moslems do not reveal that ISLAMISTS define non-moslems as the terrorists! - Truly!

Because ISLAMISTS have defined 'terrorism' as; Resisting Allah's will!! - Truly!

When non-moslems try to resist the ISLAMISATION of their society, or try to prevent ISLAMIST violence, good moslems present such actions to the moslems community, and other moslems, as 'oppression' and 'violence' against moslems by non-moslems!

Hence such action is non-moslem terrorism - in the eyes of good moslems.


more on this moslem SOPHISTRY here...

"Sharia Australia"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295543010/13#13


Bashir calls bombers 'counter-terrorists'
June 26, 2007
HARDLINE Islamic cleric Abu Bakar Bashir said today that extremists blamed for Indonesian bombings were role models for other Muslims and feted them as "counter-terrorists."
"There are no terrorists in Indonesia. What there are, are counter-terrorists," Bashir said.
......But he called on Indonesian Muslims to refrain from accusing people of terrorism, saying it would be tantamount to assisting the US.
Bashir spoke at a press conference to announce plans, together with 13 lawyers from the "Team for the Defence of Muslims," to file a suit demanding that Indonesia's counter-terrorism police unit be disbanded.
Lawyer Munarman alleged that the counter-terrorism squad was financed opaquely by the US, sought to make war against Islam and used torture to secure admissions from suspects.
He also said that the squad was discriminatory as it only acted against Muslims, adding the team planned to file the suit on tomorrow at the South Jakarta district court.
Bashir has redoubled his efforts to get Sharia law enforced in Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation, since his release from prison.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21973518-23109,00.html



All non-moslems should be told, and should come to understand and know, that moslems and non-moslems define certain common words very, very differently.

To a moslem words like these, mean...

Peace = = Submission to Allah is the only peace recognized in Islam.

Righteousness = = Is following the Way of Allah. A moslem can be a killer and murder of non-moslems and yet be regarded by all good moslems as a righteous person.

Good works = = To be good for a moslem is to submit to Allah's will and then follow the 'right' path established by the examples set by the Prophet. [Murdering critics and murdering other assorted 'enemies', pirating against peaceful non-moslem communities, paedophilia, raping women captives which were secured in raiding parties, etc. ALL THESE ACTIONS BY MOHAMMED ARE CATALOGUED AND RECORDED IN THE HADITH.]


Source for how moslems define the meaning of words differently,

Google,
Islam 101: A Lexicon for Dummies


July 28, 2006
Islamic Dictionary for Infidels
"...the quest of converting the entire world to Islam is an immutable fixture of the Muslim worldview. Only if this task is accomplished, if the world has become a "Dar al-Islam," will it also be a "Dar a-Salam," or a house of peace." "

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2006/07/islamic-dictionary-for-infidels.html




Moslem communities [within host countries] will always insist that they want to see peace cover the whole earth.

But those moslems, do not reveal that all moslems define 'peace', as submission to Allah's will.
i.e.
'Peace' = = mankind's SLAVERY, under ISLAMIST political rule.


And, all good moslems will openly condemn terrorism.

But good moslems deceitfully NEVER, EVER, reveal to non-moslems how good moslems define terrorism.
i.e.
Those who resist Allah's will, and resist the violent spread of ISLAM, are the terrorists!!  - in the eyes of good moslems.

ISLAM = deceit.


No ISLAM...Know Peace.
Know ISLAM...Throw up.




Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Karnal on Feb 18th, 2011 at 8:54am

JC Denton wrote on Feb 18th, 2011 at 7:56am:
abo terrorism boomerang in the world trade centre


What are you talking about? You blokes were worse than the Irish.

That Pemulway with the bulletproof shirt, Charles Perkins making whites share their swimming pools with your lot, Eddie Mabo taking over everyone's backyards.

You should be ashamed.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by freediver on Feb 18th, 2011 at 7:29pm

Quote:
saying that the statistics are flawed because the FBI included small acts such as “stealing rats from a lab” as an act of terrorism


So how do they compare on body count?

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Beertruk on Feb 21st, 2011 at 6:25pm
But the majority of terrorist attacks are carried out by muzlims.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by freediver on Feb 21st, 2011 at 8:35pm
Abu, this is a logical fallacy. Just because all Muslims are terrorists does not mean all terrorists are Muslims.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 21st, 2011 at 11:40pm

Quote:
But the majority of terrorist attacks are carried out by muzlims.


Your illiteracy is no excuse for your stupidity.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Yadda on Feb 22nd, 2011 at 8:34am

freediver wrote on Feb 21st, 2011 at 8:35pm:
.
Abu, this is a logical fallacy. Just because all Muslims are terrorists does not mean all terrorists are Muslims.



Hey FD!

I think that we should give Abu this one.
/sarc off

i.e.
In the title of this thread, Abu is almost correct.



All good moslems, every single one of them, must embrace terrorism, as 'the way of Allah'.

And if moslems do not embrace terrorism [terrorising 'disbelievers' for Allah], then they are not real moslems.

THAT logic [that all GOOD moslems are terrorists], is confirmed by ISLAM itself, and by ISLAM's own foundation texts.


e.g.
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Koran 9.29

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"O Prophet! strive [fight] hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell...."
Koran 9.73

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves....."
Koran 48.29

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods;...they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111


The Hadith...
"Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' ...."
hadith/bukhari #004.052.196




From the Hadith, Mohammed himself confirms that terrorising the enemies of Allah, is the way of ISLAM.....

".....I have been given superiority......; I have been helped by terror (in the hearts of enemies): spoils have been made lawful to me:"
hadithsunnah/muslim/ #004.1062

"I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand."
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.220




++++

AND, contemporary moslems seem to agree, ISLAM is about terrorism [against Allah's 'enemies']...

Cleric preaches that violence is part of Islam
01/05/2007
In documents seen by The Daily Telegraph, al-Muhajiroun claimed: "Terrorism is a part of Islam" and "Allah made it obligatory to prepare and to terrify the enemy of Allah".
The article advised: "The kuffar of USA and UK are without doubt our enemy. There is no such thing as an innocent kafir, innocence is only applicable for the Muslims. Not only is it obligatory to fight them, it is haram [forbidden] to feel sorry for them."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1550211/Cleric-preaches-that-violence-is-part-of-Islam.html

Such a doctrine is supported by many, many Koran and Hadith verses.



Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Beertruk on Feb 22nd, 2011 at 7:32pm

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 21st, 2011 at 11:40pm:

Quote:
But the majority of terrorist attacks are carried out by muzlims.


Your illiteracy is no excuse for your stupidity.


So that is your best answer to " But the majority of terrorist attacks are carried out by muzlims."...you dont have anything better that?

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 22nd, 2011 at 7:39pm

Quote:
I am 'stupid' because???


You were incapable of reading the article, and its proof that the vast vast majority of terrorist attacks clearly are not carried out by Muslims.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Beertruk on Feb 22nd, 2011 at 7:48pm
Ohh..I read the article...we KNOW that the majority of muslims are not terrorists...BUT the majority of terrorist attacks are carried out by muslims...there you are...muslim spelt with an 's'.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 22nd, 2011 at 10:10pm
Obviously you're a bit thicker than the usual goons we get around here.

The article says 94% of terrorist attacks (not of Muslims) in the U.S are carried out by other than Muslims.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by BigOl64 on Feb 23rd, 2011 at 8:39am

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 22nd, 2011 at 10:10pm:
Obviously you're a bit thicker than the usual goons we get around here.

The article says 94% of terrorist attacks (not of Muslims) in the U.S are carried out by other than Muslims.



It would be interesting to know who commits or attempts to commit the most acts of terrorism and religious inspired murder against Australians.

That would include both Bali bombings and recent prosecutions against scumbags wanting to murder Aussie soldiers on our own bases.  >:(


Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 23rd, 2011 at 8:58pm
Since we don't have Latino radicals, Communists, eco-Terrorists, Jewish militants etc. in large numbers here as they do in the U.S I'm guessing it'd be higher. Still doesn't change the fact that Muslims committing terrorist acts in the U.S are a tiny minority of all people committing such acts.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Beertruk on Feb 23rd, 2011 at 10:40pm

abu_rashid wrote on Feb 22nd, 2011 at 10:10pm:
Obviously you're a bit thicker than the usual goons we get around here.



Calling me a 'bit thicker than most of the goons around here' just diminishes your cred. Means the best you can do is attack the person...not their statement or argument...because you have no idea.

PS: And why did you delete my post of 'Things guaranteed to cause a muslim (note...muslim spelt with an 's'...not a 'z') taantee? Trying to rebutt 95 statements/arguments too much for you? There was no swearing or racist' comments when it was posted on this forum.  For anyone thats interested, its still up on the Extremism Exposed Forum (with a wee swear word).

Linky : http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1298280554



Unlike the God of the Qur'an, Jesus never ordered any Christians to kill for Him or to take (the captives) that your right hand possesses. Everyone was given the choice to choose Him or reject Him.
Brother Banda

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Lestat on Feb 24th, 2011 at 7:12am

Beertruk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2011 at 10:40pm:
Unlike the God of the Qur'an, Jesus never ordered any Christians to kill for Him or to take (the captives) that your right hand possesses. Everyone was given the choice to choose Him or reject Him.
Brother Banda


"I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" (Gospel of Matthew 10:34)

And you should try reading the old testament (you can read..can't you??). There are some beauties in there. Like Yaweh ordering the Israelites to commit genocide.

And yes, abu is right, you are a bit thick. :)

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Beertruk on Feb 24th, 2011 at 5:11pm

Lestat wrote on Feb 24th, 2011 at 7:12am:

Beertruk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2011 at 10:40pm:
Unlike the God of the Qur'an, Jesus never ordered any Christians to kill for Him or to take (the captives) that your right hand possesses. Everyone was given the choice to choose Him or reject Him.
Brother Banda


"I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" (Gospel of Matthew 10:34)

And you should try reading the old testament (you can read..can't you??). There are some beauties in there. Like Yaweh ordering the Israelites to commit genocide.

And yes, abu is right, you are a bit thick. :)


But not as thick as some, dhimmwitt.

Hmmmmm so Christianity is based on the Old Testament? I always thought it was based on the New Testament...silly me...


"I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" (Gospel of Matthew 10:34)


Why have you you cherry picked this verse, Lesat you dhimmwitt ( I know,,,your are trying to shaw tha Bible as being violent...well, the Ol? Lets have a look at the whole verse and in context...not cherry picked like Lestat has.

32 "Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven. 34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household [Micah 7:6]
37 Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."

The meaning of sword in this verse is 'spiritual', not physical. What it means is if any one loves his or her father, mother, son or daughter more that Jesus, they are not worthy of Jesus.
Whoever is worthy of following Christ, and who comes from a  family hostile about that whole thing Christian thing, has to use a sword of will (not a physical sword) to sever away opposition.
Christ say that a spiritual sword may sever family ties, not a physical sword.
Anyone that looses his life for the sake of Jesus will find his life in heaven.

The New Testament hands the physical sword over to the State.
Romans 13- 11 to 14.



Best you two dhimmwitts do some reading yourselves.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by GH on Feb 24th, 2011 at 7:50pm

Lestat wrote on Feb 24th, 2011 at 7:12am:

Beertruk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2011 at 10:40pm:
Unlike the God of the Qur'an, Jesus never ordered any Christians to kill for Him or to take (the captives) that your right hand possesses. Everyone was given the choice to choose Him or reject Him.
Brother Banda


"I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" (Gospel of Matthew 10:34)

And you should try reading the old testament (you can read..can't you??). There are some beauties in there. Like Yaweh ordering the Israelites to commit genocide.

And yes, abu is right, you are a bit thick. :)



Lesat, I'd say it's you that's a bit thick old chap.

The Old Testament is a book of stories, written by many different people,  and is not intended to be part of any religion, just vague guidelines.

The Jewish code of Law, on which Christianity, and 'supposedly' Islam, is based is called the Torah

Look at it this way, the OT is a book of fictitious stories. The koran is the words of a man, which everyone is expected to follow.

Things like

Qur'an (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

Ibn Ishaq: 327 - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Qur'an (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

Qur'an (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Book 041, Number 6985:

"Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews."

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 24th, 2011 at 9:50pm
Beertruk,


Quote:
Means the best you can do is attack the person...not their statement or argument...because you have no idea.


No, it means either you can't read, or you're too thick to comprehend it.

The article quite clearly shows that 94% of terrorist attacks in the U.S were carried out by non-Muslims, yet you still insist Muslims committed most of the acts. You're a goose, plain and simple.


Quote:
Unlike the God of the Qur'an, Jesus never ordered any Christians to kill for Him or to take (the captives) that your right hand possesses. Everyone was given the choice to choose Him or reject Him.


According to Christians, Jesus is the God of the OT, and the God of the OT most certainly did order ALL those things, in fact he described himself as a "Man of war" in your Bible. Again, either you can't read, or you're too thick to comprehend it.


Quote:
Why have you you cherry picked this verse


Cherry picked? The verse is there is it not? Here's another one for you.

"Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take [it], and likewise [his] scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." (Luke 22:36)


Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 24th, 2011 at 9:52pm

Quote:
Torah Should be TALMUD


If you want to change what's in a post, click modify and edit the post, don't repost the whole post again, just to change one word. Please exercise some rudimentary intelligence here if you can.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by GH on Feb 24th, 2011 at 10:45pm
I don't think anyone here is as damned thick as you are mate, nor so rude and egotistical. You are a pig !!!

Jesus is not the God of the OT. Thick or what?

Unlike muslims, we don't take things literally. Some of the garbage coming out of your mob, is being reported to ASIO, it is gettng beyond a joke.

Check out the Hisbut-tahrir rally in Sydney

“Let it be clear that you are not Australian, you are not British,  you are not American, you are muslim

Those who would like to divide you and separate you from the ummah. ..let it be known that our leader is islam and islam alone..let it be known that our loyalties are to islam and islam alone..our support is to muslims and muslims alone.

Speaking of Australia ……..unable to read my own writing here and abu bo, whatever you call yourself, don’t make some smart Alec remark  !

We are not the ummah that will be content at the crumbs that are thrown at us, that will be content with the sharing of power. We are not an ummah that will accept to remain in a position of subjugation. We are not an ummah that will accept to remain in an artificial border.

We are the ummah of mohammed and all that crap that comes with it

With this ummah we will stand and we want nothing but islam”

Now if you delete this I will post it elsewhere, because it needs to be read, so that people can see what islam is all about.

There is also a whole section about passports, which is another sign.

I am in the process of getting a translation done of the Arabic. My Arabic speaking Christian friends, you know the ones being slaughtered in the ME in the name of the good old prophet, don’t understand the Lebanese dialect




abu_rashid wrote on Feb 24th, 2011 at 9:52pm:

Quote:
Torah Should be TALMUD


If you want to change what's in a post, click modify and edit the post, don't repost the whole post again, just to change one word. Please exercise some rudimentary intelligence here if you can.


Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Yadda on Feb 24th, 2011 at 10:53pm

GH wrote on Feb 24th, 2011 at 10:45pm:
I don't think anyone here is as damned thick as you are mate, nor so rude and egotistical. You are a pig !!!

Jesus is not the God of the OT.



GH, he is.

Jesus, is the God of the OT.

Jesus was a 'manifestation', of that entity, which we call God.

Jesus spirit, the spirit which was indwelling Jesus, was a part of God.


John 8:56
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57  Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by abu_rashid on Feb 25th, 2011 at 6:05am

Quote:
Jesus is not the God of the OT. Thick or what?


Pretty sad you don't even know what mainstream Christian beliefs are. And you're calling me thick?  ;D


Quote:
Now if you delete this I will post it elsewhere


Why would I delete something that shows how much of a half wit you are? If anyone would be deleting it, it'd be you, if you actually had the intelligence to comprehend how stupid it makes you look, that is.


Quote:
There is also a whole section about passports, which is another sign.


What?


Quote:
I am in the process of getting a translation done of the Arabic. My Arabic speaking Christian friends, you know the ones being slaughtered in the ME in the name of the good old prophet, don’t understand the Lebanese dialect


A translation of what?

If your friends can't understand the Lebanese dialect, then either they're from the Maghreb or they don't actually speak Arabic, and have been stringing you along  ;D

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Lestat on Feb 25th, 2011 at 7:09am

Beertruk wrote on Feb 24th, 2011 at 5:11pm:
But not as thick as some, dhimmwitt.

Hmmmmm so Christianity is based on the Old Testament? I always thought it was based on the New Testament...silly me...


"I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" (Gospel of Matthew 10:34)


Actually, thicker then most. That quote is from the new testament. But nice try dimwit. :D


Beertruk wrote on Feb 24th, 2011 at 5:11pm:
Why have you you cherry picked this verse, Lesat you dhimmwitt ( I know,,,your are trying to shaw tha Bible as being violent...well, the Ol? Lets have a look at the whole verse and in context...not cherry picked like Lestat has.


You stated that Jesus never order any Christians to kill for him. I have shown you that in this verse, Jesus clearly states that he is not here to bring peace, but to bring violence.

Once again, your assertion is wrong. A quite a common occurence for you I've noticed. Guess it comes with the terroritory when your so slow.


Beertruk wrote on Feb 24th, 2011 at 5:11pm:
32 "Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven. 34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household [Micah 7:6]
37 Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."

The meaning of sword in this verse is 'spiritual', not physical. What it means is if any one loves his or her father, mother, son or daughter more that Jesus, they are not worthy of Jesus.
Whoever is worthy of following Christ, and who comes from a  family hostile about that whole thing Christian thing, has to use a sword of will (not a physical sword) to sever away opposition.
Christ say that a spiritual sword may sever family ties, not a physical sword.
Anyone that looses his life for the sake of Jesus will find his life in heaven.

The New Testament hands the physical sword over to the State.
Romans 13- 11 to 14.



Best you two dhimmwitts do some reading yourselves.


lol, the meaning is quite clear, despite the spin you've attempted to put on it. Anyone with half a brain can see that...ofcourse that rules you out.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Lestat on Feb 25th, 2011 at 7:11am

GH wrote on Feb 24th, 2011 at 7:50pm:

Lestat wrote on Feb 24th, 2011 at 7:12am:

Beertruk wrote on Feb 23rd, 2011 at 10:40pm:
Unlike the God of the Qur'an, Jesus never ordered any Christians to kill for Him or to take (the captives) that your right hand possesses. Everyone was given the choice to choose Him or reject Him.
Brother Banda


"I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" (Gospel of Matthew 10:34)

And you should try reading the old testament (you can read..can't you??). There are some beauties in there. Like Yaweh ordering the Israelites to commit genocide.

And yes, abu is right, you are a bit thick. :)



Lesat, I'd say it's you that's a bit thick old chap.

The Old Testament is a book of stories, written by many different people,  and is not intended to be part of any religion, just vague guidelines.

The Jewish code of Law, on which Christianity, and 'supposedly' Islam, is based is called the Torah

Look at it this way, the OT is a book of fictitious stories. The koran is the words of a man, which everyone is expected to follow.

Things like

Qur'an (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

Ibn Ishaq: 327 - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Qur'an (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

Qur'an (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Book 041, Number 6985:

"Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews."


hehe. I do agree with you on one thing. Yes, the Bible is a book of fictions...greatest selling fiction of all time.

The Quran however, is the true word of God.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Lestat on Feb 25th, 2011 at 7:13am

GH wrote on Feb 24th, 2011 at 10:45pm:
I don't think anyone here is as damned thick as you are mate, nor so rude and egotistical. You are a pig !!!

Jesus is not the God of the OT. Thick or what?

Unlike muslims, we don't take things literally. Some of the garbage coming out of your mob, is being reported to ASIO, it is gettng beyond a joke.

Check out the Hisbut-tahrir rally in Sydney

“Let it be clear that you are not Australian, you are not British,  you are not American, you are muslim

Those who would like to divide you and separate you from the ummah. ..let it be known that our leader is islam and islam alone..let it be known that our loyalties are to islam and islam alone..our support is to muslims and muslims alone.

Speaking of Australia ……..unable to read my own writing here and abu bo, whatever you call yourself, don’t make some smart Alec remark  !

We are not the ummah that will be content at the crumbs that are thrown at us, that will be content with the sharing of power. We are not an ummah that will accept to remain in a position of subjugation. We are not an ummah that will accept to remain in an artificial border.

We are the ummah of mohammed and all that crap that comes with it

With this ummah we will stand and we want nothing but islam”

Now if you delete this I will post it elsewhere, because it needs to be read, so that people can see what islam is all about.

There is also a whole section about passports, which is another sign.

I am in the process of getting a translation done of the Arabic. My Arabic speaking Christian friends, you know the ones being slaughtered in the ME in the name of the good old prophet, don’t understand the Lebanese dialect




abu_rashid wrote on Feb 24th, 2011 at 9:52pm:

Quote:
Torah Should be TALMUD


If you want to change what's in a post, click modify and edit the post, don't repost the whole post again, just to change one word. Please exercise some rudimentary intelligence here if you can.


hahaha. what a loser you are. What a pathetic existence you must lead. :D

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Yadda on Feb 25th, 2011 at 8:23am

Lestat wrote on Feb 25th, 2011 at 7:11am:

I do agree with you on one thing. Yes, the Bible is a book of fictions...greatest selling fiction of all time.

The Quran however, is the true word of God.




Oh, really.

I think not so.

"The inerrant Koran???"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295396564/0#0

Quote:

"O Miriam, sister of Aaron, mother of Jesus!"

The 'inerrant' Koran is so 'confused' that it presents,
Miriam [Mary], the sister of Aaron [and Moses, Exodus 15:20], as the mother of,    ...Jesus
.

Read it yourself...

"O sister of Aaron!...."
Koran 19:27-34


Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Lestat on Feb 25th, 2011 at 9:13am

Yadda wrote on Feb 25th, 2011 at 8:23am:

Lestat wrote on Feb 25th, 2011 at 7:11am:

I do agree with you on one thing. Yes, the Bible is a book of fictions...greatest selling fiction of all time.

The Quran however, is the true word of God.




Oh, really.

I think not so.

"The inerrant Koran???"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295396564/0#0

Quote:

"O Miriam, sister of Aaron, mother of Jesus!"

The 'inerrant' Koran is so 'confused' that it presents,
Miriam [Mary], the sister of Aaron [and Moses, Exodus 15:20], as the mother of,    ...Jesus
.

Read it yourself...

"O sister of Aaron!...."
Koran 19:27-34


Yadda...I'm sure even you can figure it out. You do realise that Miriam (Mary) was quite a common hebrew name...don't you. As is Harun (Aaron).

Or hasn't your 'cut and paste' informed you of this yet.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Yadda on Feb 25th, 2011 at 9:58am

Lestat wrote on Feb 25th, 2011 at 9:13am:

Yadda wrote on Feb 25th, 2011 at 8:23am:

Lestat wrote on Feb 25th, 2011 at 7:11am:

I do agree with you on one thing. Yes, the Bible is a book of fictions...greatest selling fiction of all time.

The Quran however, is the true word of God.




Oh, really.

I think not so.

"The inerrant Koran???"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295396564/0#0

Quote:

"O Miriam, sister of Aaron, mother of Jesus!"

The 'inerrant' Koran is so 'confused' that it presents,
Miriam [Mary], the sister of Aaron [and Moses, Exodus 15:20], as the mother of,    ...Jesus
.

Read it yourself...

"O sister of Aaron!...."
Koran 19:27-34


Yadda...I'm sure even you can figure it out. You do realise that Miriam (Mary) was quite a common hebrew name...don't you. As is Harun (Aaron).

Or hasn't your 'cut and paste' informed you of this yet.



Sure.

You can believe that explanation, if it comforts you.



Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Lestat on Feb 25th, 2011 at 10:14am

Yadda wrote on Feb 25th, 2011 at 9:58am:

Lestat wrote on Feb 25th, 2011 at 9:13am:

Yadda wrote on Feb 25th, 2011 at 8:23am:

Lestat wrote on Feb 25th, 2011 at 7:11am:

I do agree with you on one thing. Yes, the Bible is a book of fictions...greatest selling fiction of all time.

The Quran however, is the true word of God.




Oh, really.

I think not so.

"The inerrant Koran???"
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1295396564/0#0

Quote:

"O Miriam, sister of Aaron, mother of Jesus!"

The 'inerrant' Koran is so 'confused' that it presents,
Miriam [Mary], the sister of Aaron [and Moses, Exodus 15:20], as the mother of,    ...Jesus
.

Read it yourself...

"O sister of Aaron!...."
Koran 19:27-34


Yadda...I'm sure even you can figure it out. You do realise that Miriam (Mary) was quite a common hebrew name...don't you. As is Harun (Aaron).

Or hasn't your 'cut and paste' informed you of this yet.



Sure.

You can believe that explanation, if it comforts you.



What..the logical explanation. No wonder you find it so hard to grasp. hehe

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Kenny on Mar 1st, 2011 at 4:53pm
we should have another crusade to crush those heathens out of aus ;D

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by abu_rashid on Mar 1st, 2011 at 7:00pm

Quote:
we should have another crusade to crush those heathens out of aus


From wikipedia:

Quote:
"Pagan" and "Heathen" redirect here. For other usages, see Pagan (disambiguation) and Heathen (disambiguation)
Paganism (from Latin paganus, meaning "country dweller", "rustic") is a blanket term, typically used to refer to polytheistic religious traditions.


Last time I checked, those who engage in Crusades (ie. Christ worshippers) are the polytheists, Muslims worship the one and only true creator of the universe.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Lisa on Mar 1st, 2011 at 9:43pm
Christ worshippers are the polytheists, Muslims worship the one and only true creator of the universe.

- Abu


Do you actually believe this serious rubbish?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytheism

A free tip? Look up basic definitions next time.

Why? Because it may save you from looking like a fool!

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by abu_rashid on Mar 2nd, 2011 at 6:44am
Precisely... quoted from that link:


Quote:
Polytheism is the belief of multiple deities also usually assembled into a pantheon of gods and goddesses


ie. the Father, Son & Holy Ghost, being the pantheon of the Christian polytheists.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Belgarion on Mar 2nd, 2011 at 7:32am

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 2nd, 2011 at 6:44am:
Precisely... quoted from that link:


Quote:
Polytheism is the belief of multiple deities also usually assembled into a pantheon of gods and goddesses


ie. the Father, Son & Holy Ghost, being the pantheon of the Christian polytheists.


No Abu, you are misinterpreting the Bible. Anyway, how do you know this allah of yours actually exists?

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by abu_rashid on Mar 2nd, 2011 at 7:41am
I am not misinterpreting the Bible, because the Bible doesn't state this. Christian doctrine does, which was formulated at Nicea.


Quote:
how do you know this allah of yours actually exists?


Allah is just the word meaning "the one and only creator of all existence", in both the Qur'an and the Bible (in its original languages). If anything we should be asking how do we know this gott of yours actually exists? Since the English word god comes from the Germanic idol gott.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Lestat on Mar 2nd, 2011 at 7:55am

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 2nd, 2011 at 7:41am:
I am not misinterpreting the Bible, because the Bible doesn't state this. Christian doctrine does, which was formulated at Nicea.


Quote:
how do you know this allah of yours actually exists?


Allah is just the word meaning "the one and only creator of all existence", in both the Qur'an and the Bible (in its original languages). If anything we should be asking how do we know this gott of yours actually exists? Since the English word god comes from the Germanic idol gott.


Rather appropriate, given that Christianity is inherently pagan in its nature. Christmas (Mithra), Easter (Germanic - the goddess of rebirth, Estro) and many of the traditions around these festivals have there origins in paganism.

Not to mention the trinity (Osiris/Isis/Horus anyone???)

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Belgarion on Mar 2nd, 2011 at 7:56am

abu_rashid wrote on Mar 2nd, 2011 at 7:41am:
I am not misinterpreting the Bible, because the Bible doesn't state this. Christian doctrine does, which was formulated at Nicea.


Quote:
how do you know this allah of yours actually exists?


Allah is just the word meaning "the one and only creator of all existence", in both the Qur'an and the Bible (in its original languages). If anything we should be asking how do we know this gott of yours actually exists? Since the English word god comes from the Germanic idol gott.


Not surprising, seeing English is a Germanic language. Which leads me to the fact that the argument for the existence of the Germanic gods is just as valid as the argument for the existence of any other.  And I have to say that their idea of heaven sounds much more fun.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Lestat on Mar 2nd, 2011 at 7:58am

Belgarion wrote on Mar 2nd, 2011 at 7:56am:
 And I have to say that their idea of heaven sounds much more fun.


Really, you think a place full of fallen warriors would be fun?

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Belgarion on Mar 2nd, 2011 at 9:20am

Lestat wrote on Mar 2nd, 2011 at 7:58am:

Belgarion wrote on Mar 2nd, 2011 at 7:56am:
 And I have to say that their idea of heaven sounds much more fun.


Really, you think a place full of fallen warriors would be fun?


Certainly. Do battle all day, then drink feast and wench all night. I can thing of worse ways to spend eternity. (or at least until Ragnarok)


'What kind of a dream is it,' said Óðinn,
in which just before daybreak,
I thought I cleared Valhǫll,
for coming of slain men?
I waked the Einherjar,
bade valkyries rise up,
to strew the bench,
and scour the beakers,
wine to carry,
as for a king's coming,
here to me I expect
heroes' coming from the world,
certain great ones,
so glad is my heart"

From the Norse Sagas.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Jibreel on Apr 14th, 2011 at 9:06pm
The original article by Loonwatch is misleading. Here is a link to a thorough response:

Catching Up to a Resurrected Internet Lie:
http://www.countercontempt.com/archives/156

And here is a more accurate figure from that article:


Quote:
18,010 Muslim terror attacks

1,553 Hindu terror attacks

542 tribal/clan/ethnic terror attacks

288 Christian terror attacks

52 Jewish terror attacks

5 neo-Nazi/white supremacist terror attacks

7 “other”


If “Danios” and Sabrina Park had bothered to actually read the FBI report they misrepresented, and if they had cared enough to consult the statistics that the report itself cites as comprehensive and complete, they would have discovered that if you add up every Hindu, Christian, Jewish, white supremacist, tribal, and unclassified terror attack over the past ten years, they amount to a mere 13.5% of the number of terror attacks perpetrated by Muslims.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by abu_rashid on Apr 14th, 2011 at 9:40pm
No it's not more accurate, since the study was about America, not the world. You, and the bogus refutation article you linked to, are trying to change the parameters of the initial report.

And we all know deep down that the hyper-inflated figures for Muslims worldwide are referring to resistance movements in occupied countries, fighting invaders and their collaborationist puppets. They are more to do with defending national sovereignity than they are to do with Islam.


Quote:
1,065 Palestinian acts of terror are listed, and 2,326 incidents from India (most revolving around the disputed Kashmir territories). We can safely add the Palestinian acts to the Muslim list.


Again more cases of people being invaded and occupied, just resisting their occupiers, calling that terrorism is just criminal on your part.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by freediver on Apr 14th, 2011 at 9:48pm
Abu can redefine his way out of any argument. Who'd have thought that Muslims terrorists were upset about something and didn't just wake up one day and decide to slaughter people?

Abu, explain to us how Spain is an occupied Muslim territory....

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Jibreel on Apr 14th, 2011 at 10:00pm

abu_rashid wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 9:40pm:
No it's not more accurate, since the study was about America, not the world. You, and the bogus refutation article you linked to, are trying to change the parameters of the initial report.


The article shows that they misrepresent sources when dealing with terrorism in the US.


abu_rashid wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 9:40pm:
And we all know deep down that the hyper-inflated figures for Muslims worldwide are referring to resistance movements in occupied countries, fighting invaders and their collaborationist puppets. They are more to do with defending national sovereignity than they are to do with Islam.


That's another seperate issue. The fact is the report that Danios uses sees no problem with citing them as a reliable source. And they class them as "ethnic and religiously-motivated global terror acts"


abu_rashid wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 9:40pm:

Quote:
1,065 Palestinian acts of terror are listed, and 2,326 incidents from India (most revolving around the disputed Kashmir territories). We can safely add the Palestinian acts to the Muslim list.


Again more cases of people being invaded and occupied, just resisting their occupiers, calling that terrorism is just criminal on your part.


Even discounting the political terrorism, the figures are massive.


Quote:
From January 1st 2000 through August 31st 2010, the breakdown of ethnic and religiously-motivated global terror acts is:

Islamic: 16,177

Hindu: 18

Jewish: 52

Christian extremist: 288

Neo-Nazi/white supremacist: 5

Tribal/clan/ethnic: 542

Other: 7

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by abu_rashid on Apr 14th, 2011 at 11:36pm

Quote:
The article shows that they misrepresent sources when dealing with terrorism in the US.


The article shows that some people don't know the difference between attacks in the U.S and attacks in the entire world, that's about all it shows.


Quote:
That's another seperate issue.


Right... as are the supposed statistics on worldwide terrorist acts (ie. the entire basis of the beef with the original article).


Quote:
Even discounting the political terrorism, the figures are massive.


The figures are massive[ly distorted], agreed. For instance it's claimed there's well over 1000 "terrorist attacks" by Palestinians, yet only 52 by Jews. Clearly Jews bombing civilians into tiny little particles is not terrorism, whilst Palestinians resisting occupation of their homes is. Ditto for Kashmir, Iraq, Afghanistan, and all the other places these figures are fabricated from.

So American Christians bombing the living daylights out of innocent Muslim civilians is not on the list, but the families of those Muslims then responding to those brutal unhuman attacks is... And you wonder why such tripe would be disputed?

Come on Jibreel, be a little more honest with yourself.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by abu_rashid on Apr 14th, 2011 at 11:44pm

Quote:
Abu can redefine his way out of any argument.


The original article says nothing at all about worldwide terrorist attacks, only about U.S attacks. How am I the one redefining anything?

You obviously don't even have the slightest idea what the thread is about fd.


Quote:
Abu, explain to us how Spain is an occupied Muslim territory....


fd, explain to us how secular democrats believe that incest is an enjoyable past time.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Yadda on Apr 15th, 2011 at 9:04am

freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 9:48pm:
Abu can redefine his way out of any argument. Who'd have thought that Muslims terrorists were upset about something and didn't just wake up one day and decide to slaughter people?

Abu, explain to us how Spain is an occupied Muslim territory....




Australia, is an occupied moslem territory.

According to some moslems.

Some moslems claim that moslems were in Australia before European settlement.



Not related to that claim [above], but an 'interesting' headline....
n.b. the moslem 'victimhood' expressed, implied, in Dr Ameer Ali statements....


Quote:

Australia a Muslim nation
October 08, 2006
AUSTRALIA is a Muslim nation, the head of Prime Minister John Howard's Muslim advisory board says.
Dr Ameer Ali says most Australians practise Muslim values but the Muslim community is being alienated and disadvantaged by Islamophobia.
Dr Ali said multiculturalism was Australia's destiny but Muslims, as latecomers, were being disadvantaged.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20545617-1702,00.html <--- original link is now dead

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2006/10/ameer-ali-australia-is-a-muslim-nation.html



Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Karnal on Apr 15th, 2011 at 10:39am

Yadda wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 9:04am:

freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 9:48pm:
Abu can redefine his way out of any argument. Who'd have thought that Muslims terrorists were upset about something and didn't just wake up one day and decide to slaughter people?

Abu, explain to us how Spain is an occupied Muslim territory....




Australia, is an occupied moslem territory.

According to some moslems.

Some moslems claim that moslems were in Australia before European settlement.


This is true, effende. Macassan traders from Indonesia were here before the Dutch. Records go back to the 17th century, but they were here earlier.

I'm not sure if islam was propagated in Australia. The Macassans were here to buy dried sea slugs - delicious!

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Foolosophy on Apr 15th, 2011 at 10:58am

Karnal wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 10:39am:

Yadda wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 9:04am:

freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 9:48pm:
Abu can redefine his way out of any argument. Who'd have thought that Muslims terrorists were upset about something and didn't just wake up one day and decide to slaughter people?

Abu, explain to us how Spain is an occupied Muslim territory....




Australia, is an occupied moslem territory.

According to some moslems.

Some moslems claim that moslems were in Australia before European settlement.


This is true, effende. Macassan traders from Indonesia were here before the Dutch. Records go back to the 17th century, but they were here earlier.

I'm not sure if islam was propagated in Australia. The Macassans were here to buy dried sea slugs - delicious!


With a nice chilled Chardonay


Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Belgarion on Apr 15th, 2011 at 11:53am

Yadda wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 9:04am:

freediver wrote on Apr 14th, 2011 at 9:48pm:
Abu can redefine his way out of any argument. Who'd have thought that Muslims terrorists were upset about something and didn't just wake up one day and decide to slaughter people?

Abu, explain to us how Spain is an occupied Muslim territory....




Australia, is an occupied moslem territory.

According to some moslems.

Some moslems claim that moslems were in Australia before European settlement.



Not related to that claim [above], but an 'interesting' headline....
n.b. the moslem 'victimhood' expressed, implied, in Dr Ameer Ali statements....


Quote:

Australia a Muslim nation
October 08, 2006
AUSTRALIA is a Muslim nation, the head of Prime Minister John Howard's Muslim advisory board says.
Dr Ameer Ali says most Australians practise Muslim values but the Muslim community is being alienated and disadvantaged by Islamophobia.
Dr Ali said multiculturalism was Australia's destiny but Muslims, as latecomers, were being disadvantaged.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20545617-1702,00.html <--- original link is now dead

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2006/10/ameer-ali-australia-is-a-muslim-nation.html


Most Australian practise muslim values?  Well I can't recall the last time I cut someones head off on live TV or raped a nine year old girl I claimed was my wife.  ::)

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Karnal on Apr 15th, 2011 at 12:24pm

Yadda wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 9:04am:
n.b. the moslem 'victimhood' expressed, implied, in Dr Ameer Ali statements....

Dr Ameer Ali says most Australians practise Muslim values but the Muslim community is being alienated and disadvantaged by Islamophobia.
[/quote]

Ridiculous. How can Dr Ali possibly say we're Islamophobic?

Give me one example where anyone here has said anything bad about Islam. One.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Yadda on Apr 15th, 2011 at 12:46pm

Belgarion wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 11:53am:

Most Australian practise muslim values?
 Well I can't recall the last time I cut someones head off on live TV or raped a nine year old girl I claimed was my wife.  ::)






This is just another example of the duplicitous nature of all moslem communication.



#1,
A 'don't frighten the horses' message, is always conveyed to the broader non-moslem community;

"Don't worry. We are just like you. Most Australians practise muslim values."


#2,
But an entirely different message is conveyed when speaking to the moslem community;


Quote:

"[a respected moslem community spokesman has] called on Australian Muslims to spurn secular democracy and Western notions of moderate Islam...
...[moslems in Australia were told] that democracy is "haram" (forbidden) for Muslims, whose political engagement should be be based purely on Islamic law.
"We must adhere to Islam and Islam alone," Mr Hanif [said]"

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/07/australia-members-of-hizb-ut-tahrir-say-country-is-god-forsaken-and-that-muslims-must-shun-secular-a.html


+++




To all good moslems the contents of the Koran are regarded as the direct words of Allah, and its contents should direct the daily lives and actions of all good moslems.

The Koran instructs believers to follow the instruction and guidance of their clerics, implicitly,
AND,
the Koran instructs believers to NOT enquire for themselves, about truth, and about the source of ISLAM's moral authority.
For a moslem, faith is entirely dependent upon, obedience to Allah, and to the clerics.


Quote:

"We sent not a messenger, but to be obeyed..........they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction."

Koran 4.064, 65


Allah's commandment to all moslems
'NEVER THINK FOR YOURSELF, NEVER QUESTION ISLAM's AUTHORITY'

"O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble.....
Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith."
Koran 5.101, 102





Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Yadda on Apr 15th, 2011 at 1:31pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 12:24pm:

Yadda wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 9:04am:
n.b. the moslem 'victimhood' expressed, implied, in Dr Ameer Ali statements....

Dr Ameer Ali says most Australians practise Muslim values but the Muslim community is being alienated and disadvantaged by Islamophobia.


Ridiculous. How can Dr Ali possibly say we're Islamophobic?

Give me one example where anyone here has said anything bad about Islam. One.



Islamophobia condemned....


Quote:

Islamophobia

Exposing the Islamophobes

“Nothing in our faith says it’s OK to kill anyone.”
(Ahmed Bedier of the Council on American-Islamic Relations)

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Islamophobia.htm

....and explained.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by gizmo_2655 on Apr 15th, 2011 at 4:05pm

Quote:
The figures are massive[ly distorted], agreed. For instance it's claimed there's well over 1000 "terrorist attacks" by Palestinians, yet only 52 by Jews. Clearly Jews bombing civilians into tiny little particles is not terrorism, whilst Palestinians resisting occupation of their homes is.


By it's very definition, the actions of a government military force, committed on civilians of another country can not be 'terrorism'....
The actions of NON Government militia groups or individuals can be terrorism....

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Karnal on Apr 15th, 2011 at 4:22pm
Yadda, you fit every DSMIV criteria for Islamophobia, including:

1. Distorted affect - feelings of being persecuted or unnecessarily targeted by Muslims
2. Obsessive thinking - an inability to focus on other areas or subjects not relating to Muslims
3. Absolutist thinking - a belief that Muslims can only act a certain way and a perception that this is inherent to their nature  
4. Catestrophic thinking - sees the worst in all situations involving Muslims and/or a belief a that Muslims are behind all disasters or setbacks
5. Delusions of grandiosity and/or persecution - a belief that Muslims are inherently inferior and/or a belief that the subject is continually being persecuted by Muslims
6. Unrealistic perception of others - a belief that all opponents are Muslim or agents of Islam
7. Self justification of pathology - a belief that Islamophobia is normal/natural and that all people should hate Muslims

Note the last point - that Islamophobia is perceived to be a normal state of mind. This self justification protects the ego from coming to terms with the subject's unbalanced state.

The DSMIV recommends Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and states that SSRI anti-depressive medication has proved clinically beneficial in 13% of cases, but only when used in conjuction with psychotherapy.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by abu_rashid on Apr 16th, 2011 at 12:39pm

Quote:
By it's very definition


Which definition?

Let me guess, the one concocted by a state that routinely strikes fear & terror into the hearts of civilians by bombing them into oblivion? How convenient... Now they wouldn't have any agenda in fabricating a definition that puts them beyond the pale of being defined as terrorists would they?

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Yadda on Apr 17th, 2011 at 8:16am

Karnal wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 4:22pm:

Yadda, you fit every DSMIV criteria for Islamophobia, including:


1. Distorted affect - feelings of being persecuted or unnecessarily targeted by Muslims.....[yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda]



Dictionary;
phobia = = an extreme or irrational fear of something.

Dictionary;
irrational = = not logical, not reasonable.







IMAGE
Moselms - The victims of 'Islamophobia' EXAMPLE #1,




IMAGE
Moselms - The victims of 'Islamophobia' EXAMPLE #2,








IMAGE
Moselms - Victims of 'Islamophobia', exacting revenge upon a wicked 'Islam-o-phobe'

Nick Berg, a bound and helpless captive, moments before he was murdered, by those claiming to be moslem 'holy warriors'.

Dictionary;
warrior = = a brave or experienced soldier or fighter.




+++

The world Karnal lives in....

THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR SUSPECTING THAT MOSLEMS WANT TO, INTEND TO, HARM NON-MOSLEMS


To all good moslems the contents of the Koran are regarded as the direct words of Allah, and its contents should direct the daily lives and actions of all good moslems.

The Koran is the source and the justification, for moslem hatred of the the wicked 'Islamophobes'...


"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76



+++



Karnal,

You claim that i am an 'Islamophobe'.

And that good moslems, are the victims of 'Islamophobia' [an irrational fear of moslems / ISLAM] ???



Karnal,

Who's worldview is not based in reality ???

My worldview, according to you ???


Who's worldview is based on the hatred of objective truth ???

My worldview, according to you ???


I'm happy to let those who view our respective posts, judge who's worldview better reflects what is true,
...regarding 'Islamophobia'.



Yadda said...

Quote:

My opinion, is that, the [false] opinions we hold, and the [false] opinions we broadcast, reveal much about ourselves, and about the 'worth' of our own 'worldview'.




Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by freediver on Apr 17th, 2011 at 8:20am

Karnal wrote on Apr 15th, 2011 at 4:22pm:
Yadda, you fit every DSMIV criteria for Islamophobia, including:

1. Distorted affect - feelings of being persecuted or unnecessarily targeted by Muslims
2. Obsessive thinking - an inability to focus on other areas or subjects not relating to Muslims
3. Absolutist thinking - a belief that Muslims can only act a certain way and a perception that this is inherent to their nature  
4. Catestrophic thinking - sees the worst in all situations involving Muslims and/or a belief a that Muslims are behind all disasters or setbacks
5. Delusions of grandiosity and/or persecution - a belief that Muslims are inherently inferior and/or a belief that the subject is continually being persecuted by Muslims
6. Unrealistic perception of others - a belief that all opponents are Muslim or agents of Islam
7. Self justification of pathology - a belief that Islamophobia is normal/natural and that all people should hate Muslims

Note the last point - that Islamophobia is perceived to be a normal state of mind. This self justification protects the ego from coming to terms with the subject's unbalanced state.

The DSMIV recommends Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and states that SSRI anti-depressive medication has proved clinically beneficial in 13% of cases, but only when used in conjuction with psychotherapy.


Someone posted a similar sounding set of criteria for Islamic extremism a while back. It reminded me of someone here.


abu_rashid wrote on Apr 16th, 2011 at 12:39pm:

Quote:
By it's very definition


Which definition?

Let me guess, the one concocted by a state that routinely strikes fear & terror into the hearts of civilians by bombing them into oblivion? How convenient... Now they wouldn't have any agenda in fabricating a definition that puts them beyond the pale of being defined as terrorists would they?


Western governments don't write dictionaries Abu.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by abu_rashid on Apr 17th, 2011 at 12:21pm
So fd, what's the motive do you think behind those who define terrorism as acts committed by non-state actors?

Are the victims of states' horrific violence not terrorised? Clearly there's an agenda to concoct a word that can apply to the enemies of countries like the U.S, whilst not applying to the U.S herself, when if we examine their actions objectively, we find the actions of the U.S etc. to be far more terrorising.

It's a sham. And those who jump on its bandwagon will eventually lose all credibility.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Yadda on Apr 17th, 2011 at 12:33pm



Credibility, is a truly beautiful word, imo.



Dictionary;
credible = = able to be believed; convincing.



Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by hawil on Apr 17th, 2011 at 1:55pm
If one reads the book "MASTERS OF WAR"
Militarism and Blowback in the Erea of American Empire, edited by Carl Boggs, maybe this would open the eyes of who the real terrorists are.
I was surprised that this book was allowed to be brought to the attention of the people, although I,am sure, not many would read it.


Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by freediver on Apr 17th, 2011 at 2:48pm

Quote:
So fd, what's the motive do you think behind those who define terrorism as acts committed by non-state actors?


Communication. It helps in the conveyance of ideas if words have actual and stable meanings. Hence, people resist the temptation to redefine terrorism to include conventional warfare.


Quote:
Clearly there's an agenda to concoct a word that can apply to the enemies of countries like the U.S, whilst not applying to the U.S herself


No their isn't. The use of the word terrorism is not intended to deny the reality of conventional warfare, nor does it achieve this in practice. Your stance on this issue seems to me as silly as complaining that the word rape does not include murder in it's meaning and must therefor have been concocted by murderers to hide their acts. No-one is denying the reality of the two wars we are currently engaged in and there is robust public debate on both of them. Your focus on the semantics kind of trivialises both terrorism and conventional war.


Quote:
when if we examine their actions objectively, we find the actions of the U.S etc. to be far more terrorising.


It sounds like a novice's attempt at propaganda. We get the same tripe from western hippies who are obviously upset at the skill with which the American government has used the word terrorism. They seem to think that all that is required to outmanouvre the US government on this front is to redefine terrorism. You might as well try to win people over by calling Osama a freedom fighter.


Quote:
It's a sham. And those who jump on its bandwagon will eventually lose all credibility.


There is no bandwagon Abu. Words have meaning. It's as simple as that.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Lestat on Apr 18th, 2011 at 9:30am
ter·ror·ism   /ˈtɛrəˌrɪzəm/  Show Spelled
[ter-uh-riz-uhm]  Show IPA

–noun
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/terrorism

So as you can see, by its 'definition' as gizmo put it, terrorism can (and is) committed by governments and armies, more often then not.

Abu...its just that these dimwits get all there information from Today Tonight and A Current Affair, they are incapable of actually having a thought of their own.

It is for this reason they are no threat...just mindless drones.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by freediver on Apr 18th, 2011 at 6:54pm
Some interesting notes on the difficulty of agreeing on a definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism#Definition

While pinning it down exactly is not easy, there is general agreement on what the term does not cover:


Quote:
Walter Laqueur, of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, noted that "the only general characteristic of terrorism generally agreed upon is that terrorism involves violence and the threat of violence".[citation needed] This criterion alone does not produce, however, a useful definition, since it includes many violent acts not usually considered terrorism: war, riot, organized crime, or even a simple assault.


Another common theme is the focus on maximising psychological impact. In contrast. in conventional war the strategy is usually to confine the psychological impact to the active theatre of war.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Grey on Apr 18th, 2011 at 7:32pm
"It was a skyblue day in December sixty-nine... A skyblue plymouth with the sun in its tailfins, sped past young rice fields and old rubber trees, on its way to Cochin. Further east, in a small country with similar landscape, (jungles, rivers, rice-fields, communists), enough bombs were being dropped to cover all of it in six inches of steel. Here, however, it was peacetime and the family in the plymouth travelled without fear or forboding." - Arundhati Roy (The god of small things)

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by abu_rashid on Apr 18th, 2011 at 7:43pm
fd,


Quote:
Western governments don't write dictionaries Abu.



Quote:
Some interesting notes on the difficulty of agreeing on a definition:



Quote:
Walter Laqueur, of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, noted that...



Quote:
The Center for Strategic and International Studies is a bipartisan Washington, D.C., foreign policy think tank


So in summary...

Western governments supposedly don't write dictionaries (this may be true), but it's irrelevant, since dictionary definitions aren't always agreed upon, instead let us look to how a Western government think tank defines it instead and run with that.

Do you even know what you're writing here fd?

Cos it really doesn't seem like it.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by freediver on Apr 18th, 2011 at 7:47pm
Abu, perhaps you would like to respond to the content rather than the author?

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Lestat on Apr 19th, 2011 at 9:52am

freediver wrote on Apr 18th, 2011 at 6:54pm:
Some interesting notes on the difficulty of agreeing on a definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism#Definition

While pinning it down exactly is not easy, there is general agreement on what the term does not cover:


Quote:
Walter Laqueur, of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, noted that "the only general characteristic of terrorism generally agreed upon is that terrorism involves violence and the threat of violence".[citation needed] This criterion alone does not produce, however, a useful definition, since it includes many violent acts not usually considered terrorism: war, riot, organized crime, or even a simple assault.


Another common theme is the focus on maximising psychological impact. In contrast. in conventional war the strategy is usually to confine the psychological impact to the active theatre of war.


So the Shock And Awe campaign was terrorism...as  its focus was to maximise the psychological impact on Saddam and the Iraqi people. The US military at the time admitted this was so, when asked by the media about the goals of Shock and Awe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_and_awe

"attempting "to affect the will, perception, and understanding of the adversary to fit or respond to our strategic policy ends through imposing a regime of Shock and Awe"

Therefore. the US govenment are terrorists.

And S11 was not a terrorist attatck, as we have been told time and time again that Osama Bin Laden had declared war on the US, shortly before the attacks. Given that you've already stated that war cannot be terrorism, then S11 was not a terrorist attack.

Gee...thanks for clearing that up FD.  ::)

Walter Laqueur should be honest...according to the US and mindless drones such as yourself, terrorism has nothing to do with the act, and more to do with the perpertrator.

Hence, when Israeli snipers shoot Palestinian children in the head whilst sitting in class, this is war, and not terrorism.

Yet when Hamas defend their people and homes against the very same Israeli's that terrorise and kill thier people, and families....thats terrorism.

Israel dropping hundreds of bombs killing thousands in Lebenon And Gaza - the majority of these in civilian areas - this is war.

Hamas/Hezbollah firing hundreds of rockets at Israel, also at civilian areas, during the same conflict, killing only a handful....thats terrorism.

Only a blind person wouldn't notice they double standards and hypocricy (blinded by ignorance and bigotry more often then not...sound familiar FD?)

And you wonder why we muslims don't take you and your opinions seriously.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Yadda on Apr 19th, 2011 at 12:54pm

Lestat wrote on Apr 19th, 2011 at 9:52am:

"attempting "to affect the will, perception, and understanding of the adversary to fit or respond to our strategic policy ends through imposing a regime of Shock and Awe"

Therefore. the US govenment are terrorists.




IMO, your assessment is essentially correct.

IMO, people like G'Dubya, Blair, and Howard, all chose to justify what were essentially criminal acts.

IMO, the invasion of Iraq [mkII], was an unjustified criminal act.







Lestat wrote on Apr 19th, 2011 at 9:52am:

And you wonder why we muslims don't take you and your opinions seriously.



Moslems don't take the opinions of non-moslems seriously, because moslems are not reasonable people.

e.g. #1,
Moslems believe that ISLAM gives moslems the right to murder their children. [i can provide ISLAMIC reff's]

e.g. #2,
Moslems believe that ISLAM gives moslems the right to regard non-moslems, as having the status of cattle [beasts].





Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by freediver on Apr 19th, 2011 at 6:30pm

Quote:
So the Shock And Awe campaign was terrorism...as  its focus was to maximise the psychological impact on Saddam and the Iraqi people.


No you got it backwards. The US went to some length to contain the psychological impact and reassure people around the world that the war is against terrorists, not Islam. They did not bomb Bagdad and say to the rest of the middle east 'watch out buggerers we are coming after you next'. While terrorism is defined by the use of terrorism, it does not mean that anything that scares people is terrorism.


Quote:
And S11 was not a terrorist attatck, as we have been told time and time again that Osama Bin Laden had declared war on the US


Anyone can declare a war. That does not make them a recognised nation state. Abu for example (the chief proponent of the 'America is a terrorist state BS) has gone to great lengths to argue that we were not justified in invading Afghanistan to get him and should have gotten permission from every tribal warlord between the coast and the caves before passing through on our way.


Quote:
Given that you've already stated that war cannot be terrorism, then S11 was not a terrorist attack.


Again, you oversimplify the definition then claim it's breadth to be the essence of the definition. I said that 'conventional war' is not terrorism.


Quote:
Walter Laqueur should be honest...according to the US and mindless drones such as yourself, terrorism has nothing to do with the act, and more to do with the perpertrator.


That is partly true. That is what the word means. I still can't figure out why you people get upset that you can't redefine it so as to equate GWB with Osama. It's like you have swallowed all the US propaganda about terrorism hook line and sinker and now you can't figure out how to complain about US foreign policy other than to insist they are terrorists. If GWB had declared war on hippies you lot would try to redefine hippy so GWB was one, rather than pointing out the absurdity of declaring war on hippies. Your infantile attempts to beat them at the PR game merely play into their campaign.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by abu_rashid on Apr 19th, 2011 at 7:36pm

Quote:
I still can't figure out why you people get upset that you can't redefine it so as to equate GWB with Osama


Who said anything about equating war-mongering dogs with freedom fighters?

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by freediver on Apr 19th, 2011 at 9:07pm
So Bush is not a terrorist?

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Grey on Apr 19th, 2011 at 11:59pm

Quote:
No you got it backwards. The US went to some length to contain the psychological impact and reassure people around the world that the war is against terrorists, not Islam. They did not bomb Bagdad and say to the rest of the middle east 'watch out buggerers we are coming after you next'. While terrorism is defined by the use of terrorism, it does not mean that anything that scares people is terrorism.


That's SO Orwellian  ;D

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Lestat on Apr 20th, 2011 at 9:47am

freediver wrote on Apr 19th, 2011 at 6:30pm:
No you got it backwards. The US went to some length to contain the psychological impact and reassure people around the world that the war is against terrorists, not Islam. They did not bomb Bagdad and say to the rest of the middle east 'watch out buggerers we are coming after you next'.


Actually that is exactly what they did, and have admitted as such. Bush himself stated that other regimes have been warned, and they need to reform. Of course, it was just an idle threat, but a threat nonetheless. The US quickly realised that supporting murdering dictators in arab countries is far more preferable to the uncertainty of allowing arabs to actually choose their leaders.

And the US military clearly stated the psychological aims of shock and awe...it was a message to the Iraqi people. 'This is what supporting Saddam will bring you...mass bombings and suffering.


Quote:
While terrorism is defined by the use of terrorism, it does not mean that anything that scares people is terrorism.


I think dropping thousands bombs on innocent civilians goes a bit past just 'scaring people'.

And let me guess, this ridiculous logic of yours only applies to non-muslims. How convenient.


freediver wrote on Apr 19th, 2011 at 6:30pm:
Anyone can declare a war. That does not make them a recognised nation state.


So how do you justify the slaughter of civilians by Israel as a war? When neither Palestine, Hamas, or Hezbollah are a nation state? Oh right..Israel is a nation state, so anything they do is fine...its just war. Anything Hamas/Hezbollah do in response, is terrorism.

Let me guess....in your warped mind, a nation state can declare war on any group, organisation or individual, yet a group, organisation or individual cannot declare war on a state.

Tell me FD...how can a war be one sided, that is, its only a war for one side of the conflict, but terrorism for the other side of the very same conflict.

Your double standards are staggering.


Quote:
Abu for example (the chief proponent of the 'America is a terrorist state BS) has gone to great lengths to argue that we were not justified in invading Afghanistan to get him and should have gotten permission from every tribal warlord between the coast and the caves before passing through on our way.


Could you show me the post where abu said this, or are you doing what you do best...that is lie.

Besides, using your logic, Afghanistan is a nation state...is it not? So how are the actions of the Taliban considered terrorism and not war. Why?



Quote:
Again, you oversimplify the definition then claim it's breadth to be the essence of the definition. I said that 'conventional war' is not terrorism.


oh...so now its you that is defining its meaning. Not the dictionary, not Walter Laqueur, of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, who for some unbeknown reason you decided to quote, like his opionion is some how relevant or final...no, its actually your good self who feels they have the right to define the meaning....to justify your bigotry and double standards.

Its clear you have an over inflated opionion of yourself...just one of your many signs of delusion.

Tell me fd..wha is a conventional war. US invading Afghanistan to remove the Taliban from power...and the Taliban resisting. Is this not 'conventional' war. If not, then what is?


Quote:
That is partly true. That is what the word means. I still can't figure out why you people get upset that you can't redefine it so as to equate GWB with Osama.


lol...we don't need or want to equate GWB with Osama...there is no comparison. What is a war mongering thug responsible the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people...the other a freedom fighter resisting tyranny and imperial invasion.


Quote:
It's like you have swallowed all the US propaganda about terrorism hook line and sinker and now you can't figure out how to complain about US foreign policy other than to insist they are terrorists.


lol, bit rich given that it is you that have not only swallowed the US propaganda, but are now arguing in favour for it. Strange that your 'definition' of terrorism pretty much mirrors that of the US propaganda machine. In addition, you quote a US propaganda think tanks to support your position.

And you reckon I've 'swallowed the US propaganda'. lol. Are you really this thick or just pretending?


Quote:
If GWB had declared war on hippies you lot would try to redefine hippy so GWB was one, rather than pointing out the absurdity of declaring war on hippies. Your infantile attempts to beat them at the PR game merely play into their campaign.


What you cannot get through your thick head is that we judge GWB by his actions, not his title or position. He has used terror as a tactic to achieve political goals, this cannot be denied.

He did so in Iraq when he used shock and awe, a terror tactic, to achieve the removal of Saddam...which anyone can see is  a political goal.

He did so in Afghanistan. These terrror tactics resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands.

His acts are that of a terrorist, the dictionary definition is quite clear on the matter. Anything else is propaganda from yourself and your western drones...nothing but mindless justifications for murderous acts committed in your name.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Equitist on Apr 20th, 2011 at 9:58am




'State terrorism' is somewhat different to ad-hoc grassroots terrorism because it is usually done on a much larger and far more systematic, destructive and terrifying scale - and with impunity!

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Grey on Apr 20th, 2011 at 10:15am

Quote:
Abu for example (the chief proponent of the 'America is a terrorist state BS)


It may come as a surprise to Abu that he has so much influence. Googling 'America is a terrorist state' got four and a half million hits. It may also come as a surprise to Noam Chomsky who claims the concept was his. To be honest and to Abu's disappointment I have to admit to using the term 'State Terrorism' as far back as 1969  ;D

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Yadda on Apr 20th, 2011 at 11:37am

Grey wrote on Apr 19th, 2011 at 11:59pm:

Quote:
No you got it backwards. The US went to some length to contain the psychological impact and reassure people around the world that the war is against terrorists, not Islam. They did not bomb Bagdad and say to the rest of the middle east 'watch out buggerers we are coming after you next'. While terrorism is defined by the use of terrorism, it does not mean that anything that [is intended to] scare people is terrorism.




That's SO Orwellian  ;D



1984 'Newspeak'




We won't 'win', we can never win, unless we take hold of, and speak the truth.

....unless we can criticise the wickedness within ourselves, as well as the wickedness within our 'enemies'.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by freediver on Apr 20th, 2011 at 8:04pm

Quote:
Actually that is exactly what they did, and have admitted as such. Bush himself stated that other regimes have been warned, and they need to reform. Of course, it was just an idle threat, but a threat nonetheless.


Hardly sounds like maximising the psychological impact.


Quote:
The US quickly realised that supporting murdering dictators in arab countries is far more preferable to the uncertainty of allowing arabs to actually choose their leaders.


Hence the two democracies they are trying to establish?


Quote:
And the US military clearly stated the psychological aims of shock and awe...it was a message to the Iraqi people.


So you admit it was contained to the Iraqi people? Are you aware of any war in history where one side did not attempt to scare the other side into submission?


Quote:
I think dropping thousands bombs on innocent civilians goes a bit past just 'scaring people'.


Maybe, but you are missing the point.


Quote:
And let me guess, this ridiculous logic of yours only applies to non-muslims. How convenient.


It is about the definition of a word. You and Abu are the ones trying to apply the definitions different to different groups.


Quote:
So how do you justify the slaughter of civilians by Israel as a war?


Again Lestat, you completely miss the point. It was about the definition of a word, nothing more.


Quote:
Could you show me the post where abu said this, or are you doing what you do best...that is lie
.

How about we let Abu deny it first?


Quote:
Besides, using your logic, Afghanistan is a nation state...is it not? So how are the actions of the Taliban considered terrorism and not war. Why?


It is now. Prior to the war it was a bit complicated because it had no internationally recognised legitimate government.


Quote:
oh...so now its you that is defining its meaning


No, I am using the common meaning. I am just pointing out the absurdity of your interpretation of the brief dictionary definition you rpesented.


Quote:
Tell me fd..wha is a conventional war.


For starters, both sides have a recognised leadership structure and a home territory that they hold. That is, an occupation is not a conventional war.


Quote:
What is a war mongering thug responsible the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people...the other a freedom fighter resisting tyranny and imperial invasion.


So you agree GWB is not a terrorist?


Quote:
lol, bit rich given that it is you that have not only swallowed the US propaganda, but are now arguing in favour for it


You miss the point again Lestat. I am merely stating what it is.


Quote:
Strange that your 'definition' of terrorism pretty much mirrors that of the US propaganda machine.


They have no need to define it because it is commonly understood. There are only a few people who share your inability to grasp the meaning, mostly hippies and Muslims. Sure, they may argue about the finer details of what group is or is not a terrorist group, but there is a broad understanding of what it means.

Quote:
His acts are that of a terrorist, the dictionary definition is quite clear on the matter.


No it isn't. You seem to be avoiding a debate over the dictionary definition.


Quote:
It may come as a surprise to Abu that he has so much influence. Googling 'America is a terrorist state' got four and a half million hits
.

I meant on this forum.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Grey on Apr 21st, 2011 at 1:15am

Quote:
I mean't on this forum


Countries Bombed by the US Since WWII

• China 1945-46

• Korea 1950-53

• China 1950-53

• Guatemala 1954

• Indonesia 1958

• Cuba 1959-60

• Guatemala 1960

• Congo 1964

• Peru 1965

• Laos 1964-73

• Vietnam 1961-73

• Cambodia 1969-70

• Guatemala 1967-69

• Grenada 1983

• Libya 1986

• El Salvador 1980s

• Nicaragua 1980s

• Panama 1989

• Iraq 1991-99

• Sudan 1998

• Afghanistan 1998

• Yugoslavia 1999

• Afghanistan 2001

• Iraq 2003

+ Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya

America is THE terrorist state.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by freediver on Apr 21st, 2011 at 7:03pm
If the US is trying to maximise the psychological impact of those attacks, why do you need to list them? Wouldn't we know about them and be quivering in our boots?

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Grey on Apr 21st, 2011 at 7:28pm

freediver wrote on Apr 21st, 2011 at 7:03pm:
If the US is trying to maximise the psychological impact of those attacks, why do you need to list them? Wouldn't we know about them and be quivering in our boots?


You quiver in your boots if you're tied to a bomb before it's dropped. If you're travelling on the next bus or train you count your blessings. Terrorism is doomed to failure as a strategy, which is precisely why terrorists are held in contempt.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by freediver on Apr 21st, 2011 at 8:57pm
So we hold Osama in contempt (Abu and Les excluded of course) because he failed?

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Grey on Apr 21st, 2011 at 11:35pm
Yes, because terror is a lousy strategy and because killing innocent people randomly is the work of a shite. But Osama bin liner is not a worse shite than George Bush or Henry Kissinger or Adolf Hitler. They all stink.  

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by abu_rashid on Apr 22nd, 2011 at 10:35am
freediver, you hold him in contempt because you're ignorant.

If you truly thought about it, it's your own leaders you'd hold in contempt, who bring the wrath of others on us, so they can galavant around the world, making war in other people's backyards, to keep oil companies happy.

Osama did not do that, he merely responded to a threat. We are the ones being duped and led by warmongers that put profits before our safety.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Grey on Apr 22nd, 2011 at 12:34pm
If OBL responded to feeling threatened by murdering the people in the Twin Towers how should people respond who feel threatened by OBL? Drop a big one on Mecca perhaps?

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by abu_rashid on Apr 22nd, 2011 at 3:00pm
Grey, he responded to decades after decades (close to a century or two almost) of constant attacks, invasions, bombing, and millions of murders of fellow Muslims, not to a mere threat.

Honestly, it's amazing how patient and restrained the Muslims were for all that time, to all those continual assaults against them. The fact they finally burst out and said enough is enough is really not surprising to anyone who followed the history longer than the 5 minutes of context we see on the news.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Foolosophy on Apr 22nd, 2011 at 4:26pm

Grey wrote on Apr 21st, 2011 at 1:15am:

Quote:
I mean't on this forum


Countries Bombed by the US Since WWII

• China 1945-46

• Korea 1950-53

• China 1950-53

• Guatemala 1954

• Indonesia 1958

• Cuba 1959-60

• Guatemala 1960

• Congo 1964

• Peru 1965

• Laos 1964-73

• Vietnam 1961-73

• Cambodia 1969-70

• Guatemala 1967-69

• Grenada 1983

• Libya 1986

• El Salvador 1980s

• Nicaragua 1980s

• Panama 1989

• Iraq 1991-99

• Sudan 1998

• Afghanistan 1998

• Yugoslavia 1999

• Afghanistan 2001

• Iraq 2003

+ Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya

America is THE terrorist state.


Estimated civilians deaths (murders) = 14.3 million

There are a myriad of COVERT operations carried out by the USA in other countries that have destabilised democratically elected governments and also supported dictators, killed democracy movements and activists

Oh the immoral web the USA has woven on behalf of multinational corporations and their fascist slave based criminal Plutocracies

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Grey on Apr 22nd, 2011 at 7:00pm

abu_rashid wrote on Apr 22nd, 2011 at 3:00pm:
Grey, he responded to decades after decades (close to a century or two almost) of constant attacks, invasions, bombing, and millions of murders of fellow Muslims, not to a mere threat.

Honestly, it's amazing how patient and restrained the Muslims were for all that time, to all those continual assaults against them. The fact they finally burst out and said enough is enough is really not surprising to anyone who followed the history longer than the 5 minutes of context we see on the news.


'He' must be a lot older than I realised.  You're people get 5 mins of context? lucky you. My people, (the Anarchists) who are defined as Not-the-communist-takeover by their opposition to killing as a means of getting their own way, have had a pretty rough over a century too.

Pietre Kropotkin's 1921 funeral in Moscow was attended by tens of thousands; it was the last great show of opposition to Bolshevism. 'Where there is Authority there is no Freedom' said the banners as the procession streamed through Moscow for mile after mile. "By the end of 1921 every Anarchist in Russia was either dead, imprisoned or abroad" (Historian, George Woodcock).

In the Ukraine the Anarchist Black Army was a legend finally agreeing to a deal with the russians to defeat Wrangles White army (czarists). After defeating Wrangle they went to a peace conference convened by Moscow and got machine gunned by hidden guns.

Then there was the Spanish civil war. The only time in history that a democratically elected popular government was refused the supply of arms to defend itself from invaders.

But wait...what kind of a hundred years have Jews had? Or Gypsies? or the Irish? Or Black, or Armenians, or Cambodians, Laosasians, or women in Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan?

Let's face it, the human race are paranoid bastards who keep attacking each other. But of all the acts of mindless wanton bastardry 9/11 stands out as a massacre of people by random selection. Tell me do Muslims feel safer now? OBL doing a good job for you?

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by abu_rashid on Apr 22nd, 2011 at 9:30pm
You're comparing the violence against an obscure political ideology with the constant aggressions against civilian Muslim populations all over the world?


Quote:
But of all the acts of mindless wanton bastardry 9/11 stands out as a massacre of people by random selection.


Get a grip on yourself. Yeh it's right up there with the hundreds of thousands the U.S instantly nuked into oblivion in Hiroshima & Nagasaki, or the hundreds of thousands more they carpet bombed in Tokyo, Dresden and other places....

You gotta be kidding me right?

About the only thing unique about 9/11 is the layer upon layer of propaganda value that's been heaped onto it, so that in the minds of people today it's imagined to be the most horrific act ever committed.


Quote:
Tell me do Muslims feel safer now? OBL doing a good job for you?


I feel now the West are starting to realise they cannot carry out their shenanigans with impunity against the Muslims.

Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

Title: Re: All Terrorists are Muslims…
Post by Grey on Apr 22nd, 2011 at 11:39pm

abu_rashid wrote on Apr 22nd, 2011 at 9:30pm:
You're comparing the violence against an obscure political ideology with the constant aggressions against civilian Muslim populations all over the world?


Anarchism, as any knowledgeable person is aware is not obscure. But the thrust of what I said was that Muslims haven't suffered more or been less keen to dish it out than anybody else.


Quote:
Get a grip on yourself. Yeh it's right up there with the hundreds of thousands the U.S instantly nuked into oblivion in Hiroshima & Nagasaki, or the hundreds of thousands more they carpet bombed in Tokyo, Dresden and other places....

You gotta be kidding me right?

About the only thing unique about 9/11 is the layer upon layer of propaganda value that's been heaped onto it, so that in the minds of people today it's imagined to be the most horrific act ever committed.


You're comparing a senseless, and never was the word used more appropriately, act of violence with warfare. Osama Bin Ladin was under threat from the US how? Hell he'd been receiving their money and help for a decade or two. He did it to ignite a war against the infidels by provoking an act of retaliation against Muslims and in George Bush he had the best of useful idiots.


Quote:
I feel now the West are starting to realise they cannot carry out their shenanigans with impunity against the Muslims.


Yeah? What's the score?


Quote:
Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.


No it isn't, no virgins sorry, when your dead your dead. The mothers know this.

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