Abu, please move this to the extremism board if you don't want it here.

From the masturbation thread:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1223516711

Abu:
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I think you're still confusing the act with the lifestyle. The act might occur, but the proclamation of a lifestyle definitely would not. And in fact I don't thik it ever existed anywhere in any society previously, not even in Sodom or Greece, the two places most known historically for this. They still didn't consider it a lifestyle, they just indulged in the act at times.

FD:
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What's the difference? Are you suggesting they were basically straight but occasionally had gay sex, and that there were no 'gay' people who practiced gay sex exclusively?

Abu:
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Nope, what I'm saying is Western society has made it into this lifestyle that it is. Previously it was just an abnormality that occured sometimes amongst people, but not a lifestyle. The acceptance of it, the encouragement of it and the promotion of it into a lifestyle is what's made it what it is today. There are some people who indulge in acts, but do not subscribe to the lifestyle, even today.

FD:
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When you use the term lifestyle, are you differentiating it from the sex itself? That is, you don't mind so much that men have sex with each other, but you especially object to them talking in a gay way, having their own culture, and riding round on floats with their arse cheeks hanging out?

hahahha - you got TOLD !!!!!!!!

Threads are being closed left and right. How very Islam like.

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Abu, please move this to the extremism board if you don't want it here.

If it goes on unnecessarily, or spawns any other deviant-sexual topics, then it will be closed, no point in moving it, as I won't be engaging in the discussion, meaning it'll be just you with yourself.


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When you use the term lifestyle, are you differentiating it from the sex itself?

Yes. The act is just that, an act. It could possibly be performed by someone not subscribing to the lifestyle, and it has it's particular punishment, also the act itself does not take somoene out of the fold of Islam.


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you don't mind so much that men have sex with each other

Since it's a capital offense, I wouldn't say it's treated lightly at all.


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but you especially object to them talking in a gay way, having their own culture, and riding round on floats with their arse cheeks hanging out?

Islamically, someone who'd taken it this far would've apostasised and the Islamic ruling for apostasy would now apply to him. Talking is not part of this though, as some people have lisps and other speech impediments which cause them to talk like that. Whether it's hormone related or not, the speech in itself is not forbidden. However, if it's done intentionally to emulate women, then yes it's forbidden.

Hope that clears it all up. Please don't keep going on with this nonsense, it's really a distasteful topic to keep discussing. You might find it pleasant, I personally don't.

having read both threads i must say i almost completly agree with Abu's islamic view of homosexuality.

although i prefer to let god judge not people when it comes to these things. I dont want homo crusades or anything.

catholic teaching is almost identical to abu aswell except the punish ment area.

Abu, is this a valid interpretation of the Koran?

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1223542345

and the Islamic ruling for apostasy would now apply to him

What is that again? I think there was some abiguity last time we touched on that.

However, if it's done intentionally to emulate women, then yes it's forbidden.

Can you elaborate on this? That is, is it forbidden to deliberately act gay, or to act like a woman? Where in the Koran does this come from, and what is the punishment?

Please don't keep going on with this nonsense, it's really a distasteful topic to keep discussing. You might find it pleasant, I personally don't.

Sorry, but I find it interesting. Don't feel obligued to respond. Also, if it's in the Koran, why should it be distasteful? Shouldn't God's word  bring you joy?

I dont want homo crusades or anything.

You mean like the mardis gras, or a violent movement?

catholic teaching is almost identical to abu aswell except the punish ment area.

What is the catholic punishment?

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Abu, is this a valid interpretation of the Koran?

I've already given you the Islamic position and sentence regarding homosexual acts and the homosexual lifestyle, if you still can't comprehend, not much I can do for you.


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What is that again? I think there was some abiguity last time we touched on that.

Not from me, perhaps with Malik. Apostasy is a capital offense.


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Where in the Koran does this come from, and what is the punishment?

As has been mentioned to you many times before freediver, there's more than just one textual source in Islam, not just the Qur'an.

It was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed men who imitate women and women who imitate men, and he said: “Throw them out of your houses.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (5885).

The punishment is obviously to boot them out of your house if they ever found some way in :)

Again, not everything forbidden necessarily has a punishment, even though I know that's your favourite bit.


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Sorry, but I find it interesting. Don't feel obligued to respond. Also, if it's in the Koran, why should it be distasteful? Shouldn't God's word  bring you joy?

Descriptions of their activities and so forth are not in the Qur'an.

Aren't descriptions necessary to avoid ambiguity?

Also, I thought Islam was tolerant of 'girly men'.

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Aren't descriptions necessary to avoid ambiguity?

No, we know what sodomy is, finished. If you wanna debate and describe it, and illustrate how people's posteriors are poking out of their pants, then I don't wanna hear it, keep it to yourself. Please just leave this issue at that, I don't wanna hear a response, just want you to comprehend, finished.


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Also, I thought Islam was tolerant of 'girly men'.

Hermaphrodites, not 'girly men'. I quoted for you above the statement of Muhammad (pbuh) about men who imitate girls.

Pender,


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catholic teaching is almost identical to abu aswell except the punish ment area.

Actually for most of Catholicism's history, there was no difference on this. The Catholic establishment and most, if not all, governments in Europe considered it a capital offense. It's only in the last century few centuries, since the Papacy was reduced to the token state of the Vatican, that they changed their stance.

Maybe it was Malik, but I'm sure someone was talking about effiminate men. I forget the exact term they used. They were saying how good Islam is for tolerating them and letting them have wives.

Iran used the Koran for justification and allows them sex changes and hormone therapy so they aren't gay and become women.

easel - good on iran for doing that.

easel, there's no justification from the Qur'an for any such practise. That's just nonsense.

oh well, i take it back then.

oh, wait, did iran still do that ?
just the koran is against it ?

easel wrote on Oct 9^th, 2008 at 10:09pm:

Iran used the Koran for justification and allows them sex changes and hormone therapy so they aren't gay and become women.

How empathetic and tolerant if true. Such compassion and understanding shown to one of God's children. But alas....................... :(