We hired a BYD last year, Sealion
It was a bit big, heavy, hybrid, lots of tech, not a good driving feel.


Hiring a Chery now, Tiggo4. Smaller, better size. 1.5L turbo, CVT. Really good on fuel, better driving feel.
'Easier' to live with. Cameras not as good.

I've been in a BYD shark. It is obviously cheap on fuel. Very powerful. But there were a few irritating things about it. Like if you stick a USB with music into it, it does not have a sensible browser. You cannot play all the music on one folder. It puts things in random order. It's like they got to the stage where they were able to play a song and decided, great, job's done. For such a high upfront price, a slick looking car, and a huge display screen that controls everything, you would expect them to have the little things like that figured out.

freediver wrote on Apr 21^st, 2026 at 8:08am:

It's like they got to the stage where they were able to play a song and decided, great, job's done.

It's the Chinese plague of 'cha bu duo'...

It refers to the concept: 'If it looks good (for the market), it is good'... i.e., time spent on attention to detail is time in market delayed.

Don't have a problem with the concept itself. It is called common sense in engineering. The Chinese didn't invent it. They just draw the line in some strange places.

freediver wrote on Apr 21^st, 2026 at 12:47pm:

Don't have a problem with the concept itself. It is called common sense in engineering. The Chinese didn't invent it. They just draw the line in some strange places.

Cha bu duo is worse than that… it pervades all manufacturing in China not overseen by western manufacturers compromising safety to the point of risking death…

It’s why the Chinese crave many western made products even if they’re exponentially more expensive than the local competitors.

Quote:

Cha bu duo is worse than that… it pervades all manufacturing in China

It pervades every business that manages to remain in business. The concept is no different in China. The Chinese just have different standards. They were starving to death by the tens of millions in 1960. They are not going to "get" the high expectations that we have. Not overnight, anyway.

The only thing that might differ in any fundamental way is that the Chinese are upfront about it. Microsoft is not going to announce to the market that the software they just released is fully of little bugs that are not going to be resolved until after this version is obsolete, but they are releasing it anyway to stay ahead of Apple and because people will buy it as-is. They will spin it the best way they can. But there is no shortage of programmers tearing their hair out in frustration at all the new problems microsoft has created. Many of them within microsoft itself. And despite being full of bugs, it is still high quality software.

And every other 'asian tiger' has been through the same thing.

freediver wrote on Apr 21^st, 2026 at 1:30pm:

Quote: Cha bu duo is worse than that… it pervades all manufacturing in China It pervades every business that manages to remain in business. The concept is no different in China. The Chinese just have different standards. They were starving to death by the tens of millions in 1960. They are not going to "get" the high expectations that we have. Not overnight, anyway. The only thing that might differ in any fundamental way is that the Chinese are upfront about it. Microsoft is not going to announce to the market that the software they just released is fully of little bugs that are not going to be resolved until after this version is obsolete, but they are releasing it anyway to stay ahead of Apple and because people will buy it as-is. They will spin it the best way they can. But there is no shortage of programmers tearing their hair out in frustration at all the new problems microsoft has created. Many of them within microsoft itself. And despite being full of bugs, it is still high quality software. And every other 'asian tiger' has been through the same thing.

Yes the ‘order a rocket ship, get a skateboard’ as v1.0 is a thing…

Cha bu duo is more pervasive than that and has plagued Chinese societies for many centuries… even Confucius is recorded as lamenting the practise.

I am pretty sure you can find a philosopher from every society that has had writing who lamented the practice. And probably a few who didn't have writing. It's hard to get good help these days.

If it is such a big problem in China, how have they managed to catch up to the word's leading car manufacturers in such a short time?

freediver wrote on Apr 21^st, 2026 at 7:04pm:

If it is such a big problem in China, how have they managed to catch up to the word's leading car manufacturers in such a short time?

Copyright theft, mostly.

Then there's less attention to quality control. The local Chinese are so used to the concept of cha bu duo that they rarely complain about substandard manufacture.

Then there's governmental treating foreign competitors in China with extreme prejudice. except initially to make theft of technology easier.

You can find many 'horror' stories. many times greater in number than their western equivalents, of shoddy Chinese technology and manufacture.

We do not have a copyright on work ethic.

There is no need at all to go looking for a China-specific explanation. There is a far more obvious one staring you in the face: communism. Communism will create a half-arsed work ethic in any society where is takes hold. It happened every single time. And it doesn't need a convenient catch phrase to describe it. But communism can also be abandoned, far more easily than culture. Which is what is happening in China.

Can you give an example of any previously-communist country that now has higher manufacturing standards than China?

freediver wrote on Apr 21^st, 2026 at 7:28pm:

We do not have a copyright on work ethic. There is no need at all to go looking for a China-specific explanation. There is a far more obvious one staring you in the face: communism. Communism will create a half-arsed work ethic in any society where is takes hold. It happened every single time. And it doesn't need a convenient catch phrase to describe it. But communism can also be abandoned, far more easily than culture. Which is what is happening in China. Can you give an example of any previously-communist country that now has higher manufacturing standards than China?

You're not up with modern Chinese 'communism'... It's now a wild and woolly authoritarian, corrupt capitalist society... Even the thought of rent control bewilders modern Chinese people.

Cha bu duo, on the other hand, is a societal plague that the Chinese have had a long time to learn to live with.

Quote:

You're not up with modern Chinese 'communism'... It's now a wild and woolly authoritarian, corrupt capitalist society...

Perhaps you should have read what I posted.

Can you give an example of any previously-communist country that now has higher manufacturing standards than China?

freediver wrote on Apr 21^st, 2026 at 7:41pm:

Quote: You're not up with modern Chinese 'communism'... It's now a wild and woolly authoritarian, corrupt capitalist society... Perhaps you should have read what I posted. Can you give an example of any previously-communist country that now has higher manufacturing standards than China?

Poland.

Is that the only example you can think of? Nearly every discussion of Poland I can see focusses on EU-imposed, legislated quality control rules, and the ease with which European countries can oversea production in Poland. I haven't seen anything credit any difference in Polish culture.

So again, the explanations are in the "bleeding obvious" category, without the need to try to hang an elaborate theory on an old catch phrase, or any nation-specific culture.

freediver wrote on Apr 21^st, 2026 at 7:51pm:

Is that the only example you can think of? Nearly every discussion of Poland I can see focusses on EU-imposed, legislated quality control rules, and the ease with which European countries can oversea production in Poland. I haven't seen anything credit any difference in Polish culture. So again, the explanations are in the "bleeding obvious" category, without the need to try to hang an elaborate theory on an old catch phrase, or any nation-specific culture.

You asked for one example.

The Polish are European as well, so they're happy to impose the same standards as their European comrades impose on themselves, individually and collectively.

But you're defending something about the CCP... wait till thegreatdivide reads this!

Quote:

You asked for one example.

And then I pointed out that your example supported my argument and undermined yours. Then I asked if you have any other examples. And I expect I will be able to point out the same thing with them also, if you cannot figure it out for yourself.


Quote:

But you're defending something about the CCP... wait till thegreatdivide reads this!

Except you cannot figure out what it is.

Poland also escaped the yoke of communism before China. Taking that into account, the trend in their metrics is pretty much the same as China's - GDP per capita, quality of their products etc. If anything, China is catching up to Poland. Between 1990 and 2005, Poland's per capita GDP was a steady 5X that of Chinas. Now it is less than 2X.

And in case you have forgotten what my point is: there is absolutely no need to dream up a culture-specific explanation what you see. Communism more than explains it. Once you take that into account, you can see that China appears to have less of a "half arsed work ethic" culture.

freediver wrote on Apr 21^st, 2026 at 8:10pm:

Quote: You asked for one example. And then I pointed out that your example supported my argument and undermined yours. Then I asked if you have any other examples. And I expect I will be able to point out the same thing with them also, if you cannot figure it out for yourself. [quote]But you're defending something about the CCP... wait till thegreatdivide reads this!

Except you cannot figure out what it is.

Poland also escaped the yoke of communism before China. Taking that into account, the trend in their metrics is pretty much the same as China's - GDP per capita, quality of their products etc. If anything, China is catching up to Poland. Between 1990 and 2005, Poland's per capita GDP was a steady 5X that of Chinas. Now it is less than 2X.

And in case you have forgotten what my point is: there is absolutely no need to dream up a culture-specific explanation what you see. Communism more than explains it. Once you take that into account, you can see that China appears to have less of a "half arsed work ethic" culture.[/quote]
You attributed post-communist Poland's manufacturing standards to the EU, ignoring that the Poles are also Europeans, and they share a common cultural thread regarding product quality control.

Cha bu duo is a centuries-old cultural plague predating communism. Before communism, the Chinese had been backsliding for hundreds of years.

They came out of it within the last 50 years by generous loans, offering slave labour to the West, and the opportunity to steal every technology they needed... all of it protected by the CCP.

That they are obsessively prolific is another fact of Chinese cultures. Combine that with cha bu duo, and they can pump out millions of cars where their wheels fall off.

Quote:

You attributed post-communist Poland's manufacturing standards to the EU

No I didn't. I reported that that is what everything I read online said. If you are reading something else, feel free to share.

Again, is there anything at all about Chinese standards that you think cannot be adequately explained by the history of communism? Or do you just like parroting Cha bu duo because it makes you feel smart?

For anyone who's witnessed Chinese people sweeping shops of goods which are sent to collecting warehouses to be shipped to China, particularly pharmaceuticals, can see that cha bu duo plagues Chinese people. They trust Australian standards to deliver to them what's on the tin... not, say, aspirin made with plaster of Paris.

freediver wrote on Apr 21^st, 2026 at 8:24pm:

Quote: You attributed post-communist Poland's manufacturing standards to the EU No I didn't. I reported that that is what everything I read online said. If you are reading something else, feel free to share. Again, is there anything at all about Chinese standards that you think cannot be adequately explained by the history of communism? Or do you just like parroting Cha bu duo because it makes you feel smart?

I refer to cha bu duo because it is universally known to be a huge problem in China. The baby formula scandal was exposed when they started sending it overseas... the New Zealand government made a big stink over it, forcing the Chinese government to crack down on the practice, which had plagued the local market for years. Local complaints were ignored by Chinese authorities... international government complaints could not be.

Most commentators put down the acceleration of cha bu duo incidents recently is attriubuted to capitalism in China, not communism.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 21^st, 2026 at 9:00am:

freediver wrote on Apr 21st, 2026 at 8:08am: It's like they got to the stage where they were able to play a song and decided, great, job's done. It's the Chinese plague of 'cha bu duo'... It refers to the concept: 'If it looks good (for the market), it is good'... i.e., time spent on attention to detail is time in market delayed.

Google AI:

Cha bu duo (差不多 - chà bù duō) literally means "difference not much," commonly translating to "almost," "nearly," "about the same," or "close enough." It represents a "good enough" mindset in daily life but often implies substandard, mediocre quality in professional contexts (i.e., just-get-it-done).

Key Usage Examples

Approximation/Almost: "我差不多好了" (Wǒ chàbùduō hǎo le) - "I am almost ready".

Similarities: "他们差不多高" (Tāmen chàbùduō gāo) - "They are about the same height".

Quality/Adequate: "差不多" (Chàbùduō) can mean "not bad" or "just about right" (informal).


Key Contexts

Positive/Neutral: Used to express acceptance, forgiveness, or lack of necessity for perfection in everyday situations.

Negative: Refers to a "half-assed job" or a, "don't worry, it's close enough" attitude that overlooks quality procedures.

Common Usage: The term is frequently used, particularly in [Mainland China and Taiwan]

Bobby. wrote on Apr 21^st, 2026 at 8:41pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 21st, 2026 at 9:00am: freediver wrote on Apr 21st, 2026 at 8:08am: It's like they got to the stage where they were able to play a song and decided, great, job's done. It's the Chinese plague of 'cha bu duo'... It refers to the concept: 'If it looks good (for the market), it is good'... i.e., time spent on attention to detail is time in market delayed. Google AI: Cha bu duo (差不多 - chà bù duō) literally means "difference not much," commonly translating to "almost," "nearly," "about the same," or "close enough." It represents a "good enough" mindset in daily life but often implies substandard, mediocre quality in professional contexts (i.e., just-get-it-done). Key Usage Examples Approximation/Almost: "我差不多好了" (Wǒ chàbùduō hǎo le) - "I am almost ready". Similarities: "他们差不多高" (Tāmen chàbùduō gāo) - "They are about the same height". Quality/Adequate: "差不多" (Chàbùduō) can mean "not bad" or "just about right" (informal). Key Contexts Positive/Neutral: Used to express acceptance, forgiveness, or lack of necessity for perfection in everyday situations. Negative: Refers to a "half-assed job" or a, "don't worry, it's close enough" attitude that overlooks quality procedures. Common Usage: The term is frequently used, particularly in [Mainland China and Taiwan]

One line of a Chinese rap song's lyrics titled, yeppp, Cha Bu Duo, goes, 'Everything's the same - a deer is now a horse'.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 21^st, 2026 at 8:32pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 21st, 2026 at 8:24pm: Quote: You attributed post-communist Poland's manufacturing standards to the EU No I didn't. I reported that that is what everything I read online said. If you are reading something else, feel free to share. Again, is there anything at all about Chinese standards that you think cannot be adequately explained by the history of communism? Or do you just like parroting Cha bu duo because it makes you feel smart? I refer to cha bu duo because it is universally known to be a huge problem in China. The baby formula scandal was exposed when they started sending it overseas... the New Zealand government made a big stink over it, forcing the Chinese government to crack down on the practice, which had plagued the local market for years. Local complaints were ignored by Chinese authorities... international government complaints could not be. Most commentators put down the acceleration of cha bu duo incidents recently is attriubuted to capitalism in China, not communism.

You "prefer" it? It is not universal. You are the only one I have seen use the term. You have been parroting it on here for months now. Maybe years. No-one takes you seriosuly.

Is there any more rational thought behind this than your preference and you delusion that it is universally known?

Are you suggesting that communism is not universally known to cause a poor work ethic?

And who are these "commentators" you adhere to? Teenage influencers on social media?

Are you motivated to do this out of fear of the CCP, or hatred of the Chinese people? You seem to think TGD would appreciate my efforts here, but he is eager for any excuse to divert blame for the CCP's various failings away from the CCP. He is not above blaming the Chinese people, in particular that there are too many of them.

freediver wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2026 at 7:10am:

You "prefer" it? It is not universal. You are the only one I have seen use the term. You have been parroting it on here for months now. Maybe years. No-one takes you seriosuly. Is there any more rational thought behind this than your preference and you delusion that it is universally known? Are you suggesting that communism is not universally known to cause a poor work ethic? And who are these "commentators" you adhere to? Teenage influencers on social media? Are you motivated to do this out of fear of the CCP, or hatred of the Chinese people? You seem to think TGD would appreciate my efforts here, but he is eager for any excuse to divert blame for the CCP's various failings away from the CCP. He is not above blaming the Chinese people, in particular that there are too many of them.

As I've said here before, for a politics forum owner, your ignorance of world politics is amazing.

You seem to believe that if you don't already know something, it can't be true... It's a common theme in your posts.

The CCP is communist in name only and has been for decades. It is closer to a right-wing absolute dictatorship.

The old communist-era adage, 'they pretend to pay us, and we pretend to work', is no longer applicable to the Chinese worker.

Communist backwardness no longer exists in China.

The cultural plague of cha bu duo has existed for centuries, and it is what plagues Chinese manufacture of all kinds. Where Chinese manufacturers are not overseen by Western entities, they will do what the Chinese are inclined to do: make and sell products to the general buyer that usually look well-made but are substandard and poorly made.

With local products, they will often use Western-style branding, including using English on the labels and hire Westerners to promote these fraudulent or poorly-made (even dangerous) products.

Their property development industry is notorious for this, resulting in what has become well known worldwide as 'tofu buildings' - using low-quality steel and cement.

The practise is so widespread and familiar to Chinese people that their manufacturers will even promote speed of production as an absolute gross positive, as the world saw when they built a hospital in record time, by not bothering to wait for the foundational cement to harden and dry before building on top of it. Of course, the building was unused and 'kept on standby' - being unfit for use - once the focus shifted away from it.

The Russians have a name for this kind of presentation: the 'Potemkin Village'... The Chinese have mastered it writ large.

The Chinese regulators generally ignore these tactics so long as provincial/central government officials and local mafia-style orgs get their cut, which can accumulate to as high as 30% of the developmental costs.

Again, the cultural theme of cha bu duo accelerated exponentially soon after China abandoned Marxist-Leninist communism and took up absolute authoritarian capitalism, with almost none of the regulatory guardrails imposed in the West.

Chabuduo! Close enough …
Your balcony fell off? Chabuduo. Vaccines are overheated? Chabuduo. How China became the land of disastrous corner-cutting


https://aeon.co/essays/what-chinese-corner-cutting-reveals-about-modernity

The Chinese satirical writer, Hu Shi, wrote a fable in 1919 (long before even European communism became entrenched) that satirised the cultural plague of cha bu duo.

It is still repeated in modern China to characterise the cultural phenomenon of cha bu duo.

It tells the story of a man whose whole philosophy is 'close enough' (cha bu duo).

Hu presents him as an everyman figure, 'living in every village', to mock the broader social habit rather than a single individual.

Mr Chabuduo treats important differences as trivial.

As a child, he buys the wrong kind of sugar and says it is basically the same.

At school, he confuses similar place names.

At work, he treats errors in figures as unimportant.

He misses a train by two minutes and blames the train rather than his own carelessness.

Finally, when he falls seriously ill, his family brings the wrong doctor, and he accepts that too as 'close enough', which leads to his death.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 21^st, 2026 at 9:00am:

freediver wrote on Apr 21st, 2026 at 8:08am: It's like they got to the stage where they were able to play a song and decided, great, job's done. It's the Chinese plague of 'cha bu duo'... It refers to the concept: 'If it looks good (for the market), it is good'... i.e., time spent on attention to detail is time in market delayed.

I think that is a fair position to take.

If it's ok, get it to market. You'll find out very quickly if it fails the customer test.
The next model will be better based on feedback for the first model.
How long will it take to get a product 100% correct?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 21^st, 2026 at 7:34pm:

You're not up with modern Chinese 'communism'... It's now a wild and woolly authoritarian, corrupt capitalist society... Even the thought of rent control bewilders modern Chinese people. Cha bu duo, on the other hand, is a societal plague that the Chinese have had a long time to learn to live with.

QUESTIONS;
Where are all of successful managed Communist [named] states ?

Have there ever been, any successfully managed Communist [named] states ?

e.g.
Not NK, i'm guessing.    /sarc off
Vietnam ?



Or do these 'peoples movements' all begin with a violent peoples revolution,
and then quickly morph into......

[either.....]
1/ An economically successful klepto/capitalist clique governed state
[i.e. Q. where did the communist values go ] ?
[i.e.  'one for all, and all for one',   or,   'from each according to his ability, to each according to his need']

or....

2/ Post the peoples revolution, the state progresses, into an economically failed state [through a badly run command economy structure], which morphs into a cruel and ruthless, tyrannical dictatorship ?


Are there any other societal models which [communist] 'peoples revolutions' morph into ???

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2026 at 10:02am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 21st, 2026 at 9:00am: freediver wrote on Apr 21st, 2026 at 8:08am: It's like they got to the stage where they were able to play a song and decided, great, job's done. It's the Chinese plague of 'cha bu duo'... It refers to the concept: 'If it looks good (for the market), it is good'... i.e., time spent on attention to detail is time in market delayed. I think that is a fair position to take. If it's ok, get it to market. You'll find out very quickly if it fails the customer test. The next model will be better based on feedback for the first model. How long will it take to get a product 100% correct?

Chinese manufacturers will only upgrade production quality when an economic gun is held to their head or, occasionally, when Chinese authorities are forced by external pressure, to hold a literal one to their head.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2026 at 10:02am:

If it's ok, get it to market. You'll find out very quickly if it fails the customer test. The next model will be better based on feedback for the first model.

Sometimes it fails the customer test when a wheel falls off while driving... Chrome-plated plastic lug nuts!

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2026 at 4:14pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 22nd, 2026 at 10:02am: If it's ok, get it to market. You'll find out very quickly if it fails the customer test. The next model will be better based on feedback for the first model. Sometimes it fails the customer test when a wheel falls off while driving... Chrome-plated plastic lug nuts!

hence Aust standards

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2026 at 6:42pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 22nd, 2026 at 4:14pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 22nd, 2026 at 10:02am: If it's ok, get it to market. You'll find out very quickly if it fails the customer test. The next model will be better based on feedback for the first model. Sometimes it fails the customer test when a wheel falls off while driving... Chrome-plated plastic lug nuts! hence Aust standards

Yep... Lucky us!

For the local Chinese buyer, it's... 'ohh, dat sad... NEXT!'

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2026 at 7:31pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 22nd, 2026 at 6:42pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 22nd, 2026 at 4:14pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 22nd, 2026 at 10:02am: If it's ok, get it to market. You'll find out very quickly if it fails the customer test. The next model will be better based on feedback for the first model. Sometimes it fails the customer test when a wheel falls off while driving... Chrome-plated plastic lug nuts! hence Aust standards Yep... Lucky us! For the local Chinese buyer, it's... 'ohh, dat sad... NEXT!'

and then the chinese will not buy that brand again ever

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2026 at 11:49pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 22nd, 2026 at 7:31pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 22nd, 2026 at 6:42pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 22nd, 2026 at 4:14pm: Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 22nd, 2026 at 10:02am: If it's ok, get it to market. You'll find out very quickly if it fails the customer test. The next model will be better based on feedback for the first model. Sometimes it fails the customer test when a wheel falls off while driving... Chrome-plated plastic lug nuts! hence Aust standards Yep... Lucky us! For the local Chinese buyer, it's... 'ohh, dat sad... NEXT!' and then the chinese will not buy that brand again ever

If only it were that easy...

Cha bu duo is not about iterative improvement; it's about (a) a disregard of quality standards or improvement and/or (b) a way to recoup costs paid to corrupt government officials and mafia-style orgs.

And it pervades all manufacturing.

Australians have been warned that electric and hybrid vehicle manufacturers, including Chinese EV giant BYD, are dramatically overstating driving ranges and fuel consumption of popular zero- and low-emissions cars.

To be fair to Chinese workers, the tendency towards a cha bu duo Chinese mindset is exponentially exacerbated by the ridiculous quotas imposed on them and the provinces by the central government, in terms of units produced and cost-to-consumer limits, making cha bu duo inevitable.

And you'll see evidence of it everywhere... from the cheap shirt you buy, where the buttons start to fall off after the first wash, to the latest model Chinese-made vehicle that, over the first year after purchase, has spent more time in a fault-repair garage than in yours.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2026 at 8:02am:

freediver wrote on Apr 22nd, 2026 at 7:10am: You "prefer" it? It is not universal. You are the only one I have seen use the term. You have been parroting it on here for months now. Maybe years. No-one takes you seriosuly. Is there any more rational thought behind this than your preference and you delusion that it is universally known? Are you suggesting that communism is not universally known to cause a poor work ethic? And who are these "commentators" you adhere to? Teenage influencers on social media? Are you motivated to do this out of fear of the CCP, or hatred of the Chinese people? You seem to think TGD would appreciate my efforts here, but he is eager for any excuse to divert blame for the CCP's various failings away from the CCP. He is not above blaming the Chinese people, in particular that there are too many of them. As I've said here before, for a politics forum owner, your ignorance of world politics is amazing. You seem to believe that if you don't already know something, it can't be true... It's a common theme in your posts. The CCP is communist in name only and has been for decades. It is closer to a right-wing absolute dictatorship. The old communist-era adage, 'they pretend to pay us, and we pretend to work', is no longer applicable to the Chinese worker. Communist backwardness no longer exists in China.

You are responding to me, but it's like you are talking to someone else. Have you actually read what I posted? Where did you get the idea that I am claiming that China is communist?

Duplicate post

freediver wrote on Apr 24^th, 2026 at 12:08pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 22nd, 2026 at 8:02am: freediver wrote on Apr 22nd, 2026 at 7:10am: You "prefer" it? It is not universal. You are the only one I have seen use the term. You have been parroting it on here for months now. Maybe years. No-one takes you seriosuly. Is there any more rational thought behind this than your preference and you delusion that it is universally known? Are you suggesting that communism is not universally known to cause a poor work ethic? And who are these "commentators" you adhere to? Teenage influencers on social media? Are you motivated to do this out of fear of the CCP, or hatred of the Chinese people? You seem to think TGD would appreciate my efforts here, but he is eager for any excuse to divert blame for the CCP's various failings away from the CCP. He is not above blaming the Chinese people, in particular that there are too many of them. As I've said here before, for a politics forum owner, your ignorance of world politics is amazing. You seem to believe that if you don't already know something, it can't be true... It's a common theme in your posts. The CCP is communist in name only and has been for decades. It is closer to a right-wing absolute dictatorship. The old communist-era adage, 'they pretend to pay us, and we pretend to work', is no longer applicable to the Chinese worker. Communist backwardness no longer exists in China. You are responding to me, but it's like you are talking to someone else. Have you actually read what I posted? Where did you get the idea that I am claiming that China is communist?

Aww please…

What else would you be referring to in this thread about modern poor work practises in China?


freediver wrote on Apr 21^st, 2026 at 8:10pm:

there is absolutely no need to dream up a culture-specific explanation what you see. Communism more than explains it.

China has been a capitalist state for over 20 years, since the rule of Hu Jintao... And before him, the pro-capitalist rule of Jiang Zemin.

Why raise the issue of the negative effects of communism in this thread in the first place?

Cha bu duo's darker side was reported by Western exchange doctors resident in Chinese hospitals, who reported that the cleaning procedure of surfaces that held highly infectious matter was washed down with kitchen soap when it required high-grade hospital detergent.

However, when they reported it to senior doctors, they didn't respond with gratitude for highlighting the poor standard; they were met with contempt and fury at showing up the hospital and the (in)competence of its senior doctors, who, as it turned out, were aware of the practice, but... cha bu duo.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 24^th, 2026 at 1:28pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 24th, 2026 at 12:08pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 22nd, 2026 at 8:02am: freediver wrote on Apr 22nd, 2026 at 7:10am: You "prefer" it? It is not universal. You are the only one I have seen use the term. You have been parroting it on here for months now. Maybe years. No-one takes you seriosuly. Is there any more rational thought behind this than your preference and you delusion that it is universally known? Are you suggesting that communism is not universally known to cause a poor work ethic? And who are these "commentators" you adhere to? Teenage influencers on social media? Are you motivated to do this out of fear of the CCP, or hatred of the Chinese people? You seem to think TGD would appreciate my efforts here, but he is eager for any excuse to divert blame for the CCP's various failings away from the CCP. He is not above blaming the Chinese people, in particular that there are too many of them. As I've said here before, for a politics forum owner, your ignorance of world politics is amazing. You seem to believe that if you don't already know something, it can't be true... It's a common theme in your posts. The CCP is communist in name only and has been for decades. It is closer to a right-wing absolute dictatorship. The old communist-era adage, 'they pretend to pay us, and we pretend to work', is no longer applicable to the Chinese worker. Communist backwardness no longer exists in China. You are responding to me, but it's like you are talking to someone else. Have you actually read what I posted? Where did you get the idea that I am claiming that China is communist? Aww please… What else would you be referring to in this thread about modern poor work practises in China? freediver wrote on Apr 21st, 2026 at 8:10pm: there is absolutely no need to dream up a culture-specific explanation what you see. Communism more than explains it. China has been a capitalist state for over 20 years, since the rule of Hu Jintao... And before him, the pro-capitalist rule of Jiang Zemin. Why raise the issue of the negative effects of communism in this thread in the first place?

Do you think that the influence of communism on a society can disappear overnight because Deng Xiaoping clicks his fingers? For someone who insists that a centuries-old cultural saying is responsible, you are remarkably optimistic about the pace at which a society can change.

Why do you think I keep saying things like China "was" communist, rather than China "is" communist? Some kind of trick?

freediver wrote on Apr 26^th, 2026 at 8:26am:

Do you think that the influence of communism on a society can disappear overnight because Deng Xiaoping clicks his fingers? For someone who insists that a centuries-old cultural saying is responsible, you are remarkably optimistic about the pace at which a society can change. Why do you think I keep saying things like China "was" communist, rather than China "is" communist? Some kind of trick?

The economic situations of nearly all former communist Eastern European countries, including East Germany, improved rapidly within a few years once their citizens were re-motivated by profit through personal enterprise.

There is no reason to believe that the Chinese dragged their feet under the rule of Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao... and there's clear evidence that they took to capitalism almost as quickly as Native Americans did to horseback riding after their reintroduction via the Spanish, triggering their ancient instincts.

In fact, one component of cha bu duo is not the laziness theme, but also the personal profit motive of cutting corners and defrauding people with poorly- and cheaply-made goods for more profit.

freediver wrote on Apr 26^th, 2026 at 8:26am:

Why do you think I keep saying things like China "was" communist, rather than China "is" communist? Some kind of trick?

Hard to say... your current point often contradicts the ones you made only a few posts before... you're usually all over the map, particularly when you're trying to reverse or deflect from a ludicrous or ignorant position you previously took.

freediver wrote on Apr 26^th, 2026 at 8:26am:

Do you think that the influence of communism on a society can disappear overnight because Deng Xiaoping clicks his fingers?

So, you're admitting that communism began to decline in China as far back as 1979, then! That's nearly half a century of decline!

Do you operate in daily life in terms of geological time?

What would be a good budget car to buy new in 2026?


Google AI:


Top 10 Most Affordable New Cars (2026)

The following list represents the most affordable new cars available, ranked by base price (excluding on-road costs unless specified as drive-away):

Kia Picanto: Starting from $19,190 (manual) / $20,790 (automatic) before on-roads.

MG 3: Starting from $20,990 before on-roads, or $21,990 drive-away for the Vibe variant.

Chery Tiggo 4: Starting from $23,990 drive-away (Urban).

Mahindra XUV 3XO: Starting from $23,990 drive-away (AX5L).

GWM Haval Jolion: Starting from $23,990 drive-away (Premium).

Suzuki Swift: Starting from $24,990 before on-roads (manual).

GAC Emzoom: Starting from $25,590 before on-roads.

MG ZS: Starting from $25,990 before on-roads.

BYD Atto 1: Starting from $23,990 before on-roads (Essential, 30kWh battery).

Hyundai Venue: Starting from $23,000 before on-roads (manual).

Key Market Insights

Electric Options: The BYD Atto 1 is the most affordable fully electric car, starting at $23,990 before on-roads, offering a 220km range on the base model.

Hybrid Availability: Budget buyers can also access hybrid variants, such as the MG 3 Hybrid+ (from $29,430 before on-roads) and the Suzuki Swift Hybrid (from $24,490 drive-away).

Warranty Standards: Most budget models, including those from Kia, MG, GWM, Chery, and Mahindra, offer seven-year unlimited-kilometre warranties, while Hyundai and Suzuki offer five-year unlimited-kilometre warranties.

Price Trends: The only new car under $20,000 is the Kia Picanto; all other competitive options start between $19,190 and $26,531 drive-away.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 26^th, 2026 at 8:32pm:

What would be a good budget car to buy new in 2026? Google AI: Top 10 Most Affordable New Cars (2026) The following list represents the most affordable new cars available, ranked by base price (excluding on-road costs unless specified as drive-away):

With the Chinese models, they throw in a free frypan and a bag of bolts and parts they didn't fit on the vehicle during manufacture.

I wouldn't buy a Chinese car there is no long term data on them.

What would be a good budget car to buy new in 2026?


Google AI:


Top 10 Most Affordable New Cars (2026)

The following list represents the most affordable new cars available, ranked by base price (excluding on-road costs unless specified as drive-away):

Kia Picanto: Starting from $19,190 (manual) / $20,790 (automatic) before on-roads.

MG 3: Starting from $20,990 before on-roads, or $21,990 drive-away for the Vibe variant.

Chery Tiggo 4: Starting from $23,990 drive-away (Urban).

Mahindra XUV 3XO: Starting from $23,990 drive-away (AX5L).

GWM Haval Jolion: Starting from $23,990 drive-away (Premium).

Suzuki Swift: Starting from $24,990 before on-roads (manual).

GAC Emzoom: Starting from $25,590 before on-roads.

MG ZS: Starting from $25,990 before on-roads.

BYD Atto 1: Starting from $23,990 before on-roads (Essential, 30kWh battery).

Hyundai Venue: Starting from $23,000 before on-roads (manual).

Key Market Insights

Electric Options: The BYD Atto 1 is the most affordable fully electric car, starting at $23,990 before on-roads, offering a 220km range on the base model.

Hybrid Availability: Budget buyers can also access hybrid variants, such as the MG 3 Hybrid+ (from $29,430 before on-roads) and the Suzuki Swift Hybrid (from $24,490 drive-away).

Warranty Standards: Most budget models, including those from Kia, MG, GWM, Chery, and Mahindra, offer seven-year unlimited-kilometre warranties, while Hyundai and Suzuki offer five-year unlimited-kilometre warranties.

Price Trends: The only new car under $20,000 is the Kia Picanto; all other competitive options start between $19,190 and $26,531 drive-away.

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 26^th, 2026 at 9:56pm:

I wouldn't buy a Chinese car there is no long term data on them.

You get a 7 year warranty on some of them like the Chery Tiggo 4 -

but it has a petrol, 1.5 litre turbo -
how long will a Chinese turbo last?

Bobby. wrote on Apr 26^th, 2026 at 9:58pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 26th, 2026 at 9:56pm: I wouldn't buy a Chinese car there is no long term data on them. You get a 7 year warranty on some of them like the Chery Tiggo 4 - but it has a petrol, 1.5 litre turbo - how long will a Chinese turbo last?

How far do you live from the dealer?

From Google AI  :

Manufacture problems with the Chery Tiggo 4 (particularly the Pro and 2025 models) often involve urgent recalls for safety software, unreliable infotainment/Apple CarPlay connectivity, jerky reversing cameras, and issues with build quality like rattling and water ingress. The vehicle is also criticised for having a stiff, uncomfortable ride and unresponsive, light steering.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 26^th, 2026 at 10:08pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 26th, 2026 at 9:58pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 26th, 2026 at 9:56pm: I wouldn't buy a Chinese car there is no long term data on them. You get a 7 year warranty on some of them like the Chery Tiggo 4 - but it has a petrol, 1.5 litre turbo - how long will a Chinese turbo last? How far do you live from the dealer? From Google AI  : Manufacture problems with the Chery Tiggo 4 (particularly the Pro and 2025 models) often involve urgent recalls for safety software, unreliable infotainment/Apple CarPlay connectivity, jerky reversing cameras, and issues with build quality like rattling and water ingress. The vehicle is also criticised for having a stiff, uncomfortable ride and unresponsive, light steering.

yes - I have read all those horror stories.   :-[

Bobby. wrote on Apr 26^th, 2026 at 9:58pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 26th, 2026 at 9:56pm: I wouldn't buy a Chinese car there is no long term data on them. You get a 7 year warranty on some of them like the Chery Tiggo 4 - but it has a petrol, 1.5 litre turbo - how long will a Chinese turbo last?

If they claim normal wear and tear warranty doesn't cover it.

Long term data take Mitsubishi Lancer 2008-2015 really good car only problem is ABS pump is faulty they will all suffer this problem from a design fault.
It's a $3K replacement usually with same faulty ABS pump.
The 2016 onwards Lancers have different ABS pump they don't get this expensive problem.
Long term data shows pre 2016 Lancers should be avoided.

Chinese cars haven't been around long enough to see what long term durability is like.

I wouldn't buy a Turbo.
1. They need 98 octane fuel
2. The Turbo service is expensive even more if you fail to do it
3. Don't need a Turbo with our speed limits and speed cameras

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 26^th, 2026 at 10:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 26th, 2026 at 9:58pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 26th, 2026 at 9:56pm: I wouldn't buy a Chinese car there is no long term data on them. You get a 7 year warranty on some of them like the Chery Tiggo 4 - but it has a petrol, 1.5 litre turbo - how long will a Chinese turbo last? If they claim normal wear and tear warranty doesn't cover it. Long term data take Mitsubishi Lancer 2008-2015 really good car only problem is ABS pump is faulty they will all suffer this problem from a design fault. It's a $3K replacement usually with same faulty ABS pump. The 2016 onwards Lancers have different ABS pump they don't get this expensive problem. Long term data shows pre 2016 Lancers should be avoided. Chinese cars haven't been around long enough to see what long term durability is like. I wouldn't buy a Turbo. 1. They need 98 octane fuel 2. The Turbo service is expensive even more if you fail to do it 3. Don't need a Turbo with our speed limits and speed cameras

I don't trust turbos on any car -
they spin at 100,000 rpm -
they can't last forever.

In some ways you're better off buying an older car with low kms
than forking out megabucks for new cars.

Turbos are great for chasing power.
The Honda Turbo in Senna/Prost McLaren Formula 1 ran over 4 bar boost (60 psi) put out 1200 hp in qualifying trim from a 1.5 L engine.

You don't need a turbo for a car that will be a daily driver.

I worked on a few twin turbo Maseratis nice cars expensive to own.

Take a new car off the showroom floor and you instantly lose $$$ Thousands.

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 26^th, 2026 at 10:50pm:

Turbos are great for chasing power. The Honda Turbo in Senna/Prost McLaren Formula 1 ran over 4 bar boost (60 psi) put out 1200 hp in qualifying trim from a 1.5 L engine. You don't need a turbo for a car that will be a daily driver. I worked on a few twin turbo Maseratis nice cars expensive to own. Take a new car off the showroom floor and you instantly lose $$$ Thousands.

It's only a 1.5 litre - the Chery Tiggo 4 -
it's far simpler to increase it to say 2 litres to get more power
and would be far more reliable.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 26^th, 2026 at 11:05pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 26th, 2026 at 10:50pm: Turbos are great for chasing power. The Honda Turbo in Senna/Prost McLaren Formula 1 ran over 4 bar boost (60 psi) put out 1200 hp in qualifying trim from a 1.5 L engine. You don't need a turbo for a car that will be a daily driver. I worked on a few twin turbo Maseratis nice cars expensive to own. Take a new car off the showroom floor and you instantly lose $$$ Thousands. It's only a 1.5 litre - the Chery Tiggo 4 - it's far simpler to increase it to say 2 litres to get more power and would be far more reliable.

1.5 would be alright in hybrid electric motor add some zip.

Had a go of a Yaris hybrid has 1.5L engine with electric motor and battery.

Fuel economy around 3.8L/100Km city and highway.

Didn't hear engine when in reverse maybe it uses electric motor for that.

Toyota have perfected Hybrids lots of experience going back to Prius

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-reviews/2025-toyota-yaris-review

The End of Car Ownership: Why Mechanics Beg You to Avoid 2026 Cars.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMnHLbbaJ6I


Mar 6, 2026 

In this video, we explore the challenges and complexities of car ownership in 2026, focusing on why mechanics are urging consumers to avoid the newest models. We discuss the increasing difficulty of repairs, advanced technology integration, and the rising costs associated with maintaining modern vehicles. Viewers will gain insights into the future of automotive ownership, the impact of electric and autonomous cars, and why traditional car repairs are becoming more complicated and expensive. Stay informed about the evolving automotive landscape and what it means for drivers and mechanics alike.

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 26^th, 2026 at 11:26pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 26th, 2026 at 11:05pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 26th, 2026 at 10:50pm: Turbos are great for chasing power. The Honda Turbo in Senna/Prost McLaren Formula 1 ran over 4 bar boost (60 psi) put out 1200 hp in qualifying trim from a 1.5 L engine. You don't need a turbo for a car that will be a daily driver. I worked on a few twin turbo Maseratis nice cars expensive to own. Take a new car off the showroom floor and you instantly lose $$$ Thousands. It's only a 1.5 litre - the Chery Tiggo 4 - it's far simpler to increase it to say 2 litres to get more power and would be far more reliable. 1.5 would be alright in hybrid electric motor add some zip. Had a go of a Yaris hybrid has 1.5L engine with electric motor and battery. Fuel economy around 3.8L/100Km city and highway. Didn't hear engine when in reverse maybe it uses electric motor for that. Toyota have perfected Hybrids lots of experience going back to Prius https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-reviews/2025-toyota-yaris-review

I am not sold on Hybrids -
when the expensive battery needs replacing all the fuel you've saved doesn't mean much -
plus the extra initial price of buying that feature.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 26^th, 2026 at 11:42pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Apr 26th, 2026 at 11:26pm: ............  1.5 would be alright in hybrid electric motor add some zip. Had a go of a Yaris hybrid has 1.5L engine with electric motor and battery. Fuel economy around 3.8L/100Km city and highway. Didn't hear engine when in reverse maybe it uses electric motor for that. Toyota have perfected Hybrids lots of experience going back to Prius https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-reviews/2025-toyota-yaris-review I am not sold on Hybrids - when the expensive battery needs replacing all the fuel you've saved doesn't mean much - plus the extra initial price of buying that feature.

the chery tiggo 4 was a well targetted product.
very easy to live with, enough power for the commuter it is, cheap to run, buy and live with

yes, cabbies have used hybrid camrys for decades

Our current hire car is a corolla hybrid, hatchback
only had it one day, quiet smooth, used very little fuel, easy to drive
am assuming it has a small 4 cylinder atkinson petrol.
With a battery to add to the torque, don't need a lot of starting torque

I think toyota hybrids use battery power for under 20 or so km/h, petrol after that

wow, yes 1.8 or 2 liter inthe corollas, pretty underpowered so will be an atkinson
60 MPG. The auto will never break.


https://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/pdf/240429-Corolla-Tech-Specs.pdf

Bobby. wrote on Apr 26^th, 2026 at 10:22pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 26th, 2026 at 10:08pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 26th, 2026 at 9:58pm: [quote author=Baronvonrort link=1776664551/46#46 date=1777204593]I wouldn't buy a Chinese car there is no long term data on them. You get a 7 year warranty on some of them like the Chery Tiggo 4 - but it has a petrol, 1.5 litre turbo - how long will a Chinese turbo last? How far do you live from the dealer? From Google AI  : Manufacture problems with the Chery Tiggo 4 (particularly the Pro and 2025 models) often involve urgent recalls for safety software, unreliable infotainment/Apple CarPlay connectivity, jerky reversing cameras, and issues with build quality like rattling and water ingress. The vehicle is also criticised for having a stiff, uncomfortable ride and unresponsive, light steering.

yes - I have read all those horror stories.   :-[/quote]
Your post question: 'What would be a good budget car to buy new in 2026?' highlights a semantic sales trick: that Cheap = good.

Cheap is cheap.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 26^th, 2026 at 9:43am:

freediver wrote on Apr 26th, 2026 at 8:26am: Do you think that the influence of communism on a society can disappear overnight because Deng Xiaoping clicks his fingers? For someone who insists that a centuries-old cultural saying is responsible, you are remarkably optimistic about the pace at which a society can change. Why do you think I keep saying things like China "was" communist, rather than China "is" communist? Some kind of trick? The economic situations of nearly all former communist Eastern European countries, including East Germany, improved rapidly within a few years once their citizens were re-motivated by profit through personal enterprise. There is no reason to believe that the Chinese dragged their feet under the rule of Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao... and there's clear evidence that they took to capitalism almost as quickly as Native Americans did to horseback riding after their reintroduction via the Spanish, triggering their ancient instincts. In fact, one component of cha bu duo is not the laziness theme, but also the personal profit motive of cutting corners and defrauding people with poorly- and cheaply-made goods for more profit.

So you no longer believe I was claiming that China is still communist?

How long did the influence of communism last in those ex-communist countries?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 27^th, 2026 at 6:51am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 26th, 2026 at 10:22pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 26th, 2026 at 10:08pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 26th, 2026 at 9:58pm: [quote author=Baronvonrort link=1776664551/46#46 date=1777204593]I wouldn't buy a Chinese car there is no long term data on them. You get a 7 year warranty on some of them like the Chery Tiggo 4 - but it has a petrol, 1.5 litre turbo - how long will a Chinese turbo last? How far do you live from the dealer? From Google AI  : Manufacture problems with the Chery Tiggo 4 (particularly the Pro and 2025 models) often involve urgent recalls for safety software, unreliable infotainment/Apple CarPlay connectivity, jerky reversing cameras, and issues with build quality like rattling and water ingress. The vehicle is also criticised for having a stiff, uncomfortable ride and unresponsive, light steering. yes - I have read all those horror stories.   :-[/quote] Your post question: 'What would be a good budget car to buy new in 2026?' highlights a semantic sales trick: that Cheap = good. Cheap is cheap.

Cars around $25K are not cheap - they are at a budget.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 27^th, 2026 at 10:25am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 27th, 2026 at 6:51am: Bobby. wrote on Apr 26th, 2026 at 10:22pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 26th, 2026 at 10:08pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 26th, 2026 at 9:58pm: [quote author=Baronvonrort link=1776664551/46#46 date=1777204593]I wouldn't buy a Chinese car there is no long term data on them. You get a 7 year warranty on some of them like the Chery Tiggo 4 - but it has a petrol, 1.5 litre turbo - how long will a Chinese turbo last? How far do you live from the dealer? From Google AI  : Manufacture problems with the Chery Tiggo 4 (particularly the Pro and 2025 models) often involve urgent recalls for safety software, unreliable infotainment/Apple CarPlay connectivity, jerky reversing cameras, and issues with build quality like rattling and water ingress. The vehicle is also criticised for having a stiff, uncomfortable ride and unresponsive, light steering. yes - I have read all those horror stories.   :-[/quote] Your post question: 'What would be a good budget car to buy new in 2026?' highlights a semantic sales trick: that Cheap = good. Cheap is cheap. Cars around $25K are not cheap - they are at a budget.

What does 'good' in your question refer to? (What would be a good budget car to buy new in 2026?)

With the average price for a new, mid-range budget car in Australia generally falling between $30,000 and $45,000 drive-away, $25K is cheap.

Even a new small car range is $25K - $40K..

AI presumed you meant 'cheap' when you said 'good'.

No Meister - it said affordable:

What would be a good budget car to buy new in 2026?


Google AI:


Top 10 Most Affordable New Cars (2026)

The following list represents the most affordable new cars available, ranked by base price (excluding on-road costs unless specified as drive-away):

Kia Picanto: Starting from $19,190 (manual) / $20,790 (automatic) before on-roads.

MG 3: Starting from $20,990 before on-roads, or $21,990 drive-away for the Vibe variant.

Chery Tiggo 4: Starting from $23,990 drive-away (Urban).

Mahindra XUV 3XO: Starting from $23,990 drive-away (AX5L).

GWM Haval Jolion: Starting from $23,990 drive-away (Premium).

Suzuki Swift: Starting from $24,990 before on-roads (manual).

GAC Emzoom: Starting from $25,590 before on-roads.

MG ZS: Starting from $25,990 before on-roads.

BYD Atto 1: Starting from $23,990 before on-roads (Essential, 30kWh battery).

Hyundai Venue: Starting from $23,000 before on-roads (manual).

Key Market Insights

Electric Options: The BYD Atto 1 is the most affordable fully electric car, starting at $23,990 before on-roads, offering a 220km range on the base model.

Hybrid Availability: Budget buyers can also access hybrid variants, such as the MG 3 Hybrid+ (from $29,430 before on-roads) and the Suzuki Swift Hybrid (from $24,490 drive-away).

Warranty Standards: Most budget models, including those from Kia, MG, GWM, Chery, and Mahindra, offer seven-year unlimited-kilometre warranties, while Hyundai and Suzuki offer five-year unlimited-kilometre warranties.

Price Trends: The only new car under $20,000 is the Kia Picanto; all other competitive options start between $19,190 and $26,531 drive-away.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 27^th, 2026 at 11:31am:

No Meister - it said affordable: What would be a good budget car to buy new in 2026?

OK... Affordable as a euphemism for cheap...

How affordable, ultimately, is a car that needs to go back, and back, and back for repairs and recalls?

How good is it as a purchase when it delivers a poor driving experience?

Cheap is cheap.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 27^th, 2026 at 11:42am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 27th, 2026 at 11:31am: No Meister - it said affordable: What would be a good budget car to buy new in 2026? OK... Affordable as a euphemism for cheap... How affordable, ultimately, is a car that needs to go back, and back, and back for repairs and recalls? How good is it as a purchase when it delivers a poor driving experience? Cheap is cheap.

I dunno anymore -
I don't feel like dropping $45K on a new car to get a decent one -
I think I'll buy a second hand car.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 27^th, 2026 at 11:47am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 27th, 2026 at 11:42am: Bobby. wrote on Apr 27th, 2026 at 11:31am: No Meister - it said affordable: What would be a good budget car to buy new in 2026? OK... Affordable as a euphemism for cheap... How affordable, ultimately, is a car that needs to go back, and back, and back for repairs and recalls? How good is it as a purchase when it delivers a poor driving experience? Cheap is cheap. I dunno anymore - I don't feel like dropping $45K on a new car to get a decent one - I think I'll buy a second hand car.

Yep... That's what a car dealer relative of mine told me.

The whole new car industry is a scam... calibrated for the rich - not the average buyer.

He told me that one of the big draws that attracts average buyers to a new car is... that 'new car' smell!!

In other words, the smell of new plastic, resins and glue!

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 27^th, 2026 at 11:56am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 27th, 2026 at 11:47am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 27th, 2026 at 11:42am: Bobby. wrote on Apr 27th, 2026 at 11:31am: No Meister - it said affordable: What would be a good budget car to buy new in 2026? OK... Affordable as a euphemism for cheap... How affordable, ultimately, is a car that needs to go back, and back, and back for repairs and recalls? How good is it as a purchase when it delivers a poor driving experience? Cheap is cheap. I dunno anymore - I don't feel like dropping $45K on a new car to get a decent one - I think I'll buy a second hand car. Yep... That's what a car dealer relative of mine told me. The whole new car industry is a scam... calibrated for the rich - not the average buyer. He told me that one of the big draws that attracts average buyers to a new car is... that 'new car' smell!! In other words, the smell of new plastic, resins and glue!

And a lot of the stuff - you don't want and you don't need -
all the electronic gizmos -
I'd rather they spend more money on making the engine and suspension bullet proof.

What about Japanese cars?


The latest Toyotas will cost over $45K to drive out the door.    :o

Everything is so expensive these days.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/toyota/camry/2026-ascent-sport-josmkfgg20260115

Overview

The 2026 Toyota Camry Ascent Sport is a front-wheel drive, 4-door Sedan that was released to the Australian market on 4th January 2026. The Toyota Camry is regarded as a medium Car built in Japan with prices starting at $42,990 before on-road costs.

This Toyota Camry is powered by a 2.5L 4-cylinder engine that has 170 kW of power and 221 Nm of torque via a Variable SP AUTOMATIC transmission. Toyota claims the Camry Ascent Sport uses 4.0L/100km of Premium Unleaded in the combined city and highway cycle while putting out 91g of CO2. It has a 50L fuel tank, meaning it should be able to travel 1250km per full tank.

The Tiggo 4?

It looks like they are ripping people off.
I found this:

Google AI:

Based on the provided search context, the Chery Tiggo 4 (1st generation, 2019–2025) features partial galvanizing using a cold galvanizing method, which is described as having bad corrosion protection results.

Processing Type: The body is partially galvanized, meaning only nodal points, thresholds, the bottom, and the bottom of the doors are treated, rather than the full body including hidden cavities.

Method: The process used is cold galvanizing, which involves the application of a layer of oxides containing zinc particles.

Corrosion Resistance: Independent assessments rate this method as bad because the zinc-containing coating is not sufficient to resist corrosion effectively compared to hot-dip galvanizing.

Timeline: This partial cold galvanizing method has been consistent across model years from 2019 to 2025.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 28^th, 2026 at 1:24pm:

The Tiggo 4? It looks like they are ripping people off. I found this: Google AI: Based on the provided search context, the Chery Tiggo 4 (1st generation, 2019–2025) features partial galvanizing using a cold galvanizing method, which is described as having bad corrosion protection results. Processing Type: The body is partially galvanized, meaning only nodal points, thresholds, the bottom, and the bottom of the doors are treated, rather than the full body including hidden cavities. Method: The process used is cold galvanizing, which involves the application of a layer of oxides containing zinc particles. Corrosion Resistance: Independent assessments rate this method as bad because the zinc-containing coating is not sufficient to resist corrosion effectively compared to hot-dip galvanizing. Timeline: This partial cold galvanizing method has been consistent across model years from 2019 to 2025.

Cha bu duo

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 28^th, 2026 at 2:02pm:

Cha bu duo

The Chinese could be ripping people off.    :-/

Bobby. wrote on Apr 28^th, 2026 at 12:50pm:

What about Japanese cars? The latest Toyotas will cost over $45K to drive out the door.    :o Everything is so expensive these days. https://www.carexpert.com.au/toyota/camry/2026-ascent-sport-josmkfgg20260115 Overview The 2026 Toyota Camry Ascent Sport is a front-wheel drive, 4-door Sedan that was released to the Australian market on 4th January 2026. The Toyota Camry is regarded as a medium Car built in Japan with prices starting at $42,990 before on-road costs. This Toyota Camry is powered by a 2.5L 4-cylinder engine that has 170 kW of power and 221 Nm of torque via a Variable SP AUTOMATIC transmission. Toyota claims the Camry Ascent Sport uses 4.0L/100km of Premium Unleaded in the combined city and highway cycle while putting out 91g of CO2. It has a 50L fuel tank, meaning it should be able to travel 1250km per full tank.

The camry is a very upmarket car.
The auto is smooth, efficient, quiet and very very reliable, even by Toyota standards.

the entire drive train has been Taxi tested for decades

Bobby. wrote on Apr 29^th, 2026 at 12:24am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 28th, 2026 at 2:02pm: Cha bu duo The Chinese could be ripping people off.    :-/

Of course...

Cha bu duo corner cutting = more profit.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 29^th, 2026 at 3:17am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 28th, 2026 at 12:50pm: What about Japanese cars? The latest Toyotas will cost over $45K to drive out the door.    :o Everything is so expensive these days. https://www.carexpert.com.au/toyota/camry/2026-ascent-sport-josmkfgg20260115 Overview The 2026 Toyota Camry Ascent Sport is a front-wheel drive, 4-door Sedan that was released to the Australian market on 4th January 2026. The Toyota Camry is regarded as a medium Car built in Japan with prices starting at $42,990 before on-road costs. This Toyota Camry is powered by a 2.5L 4-cylinder engine that has 170 kW of power and 221 Nm of torque via a Variable SP AUTOMATIC transmission. Toyota claims the Camry Ascent Sport uses 4.0L/100km of Premium Unleaded in the combined city and highway cycle while putting out 91g of CO2. It has a 50L fuel tank, meaning it should be able to travel 1250km per full tank. The camry is a very upmarket car. The auto is smooth, efficient, quiet and very very reliable, even by Toyota standards. the entire drive train has been Taxi tested for decades

jump to 10:55

Camry gets over 400,000  kms  when used as a taxi:




Top 10 Australian Cars That NEVER Break Down | Most Reliable Aussie Cars Ever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4aiPaa0WIo

Bobby. wrote on Apr 30^th, 2026 at 12:25am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 29th, 2026 at 3:17am: Bobby. wrote on Apr 28th, 2026 at 12:50pm: What about Japanese cars? The latest Toyotas will cost over $45K to drive out the door.    :o Everything is so expensive these days. https://www.carexpert.com.au/toyota/camry/2026-ascent-sport-josmkfgg20260115 Overview The 2026 Toyota Camry Ascent Sport is a front-wheel drive, 4-door Sedan that was released to the Australian market on 4th January 2026. The Toyota Camry is regarded as a medium Car built in Japan with prices starting at $42,990 before on-road costs. This Toyota Camry is powered by a 2.5L 4-cylinder engine that has 170 kW of power and 221 Nm of torque via a Variable SP AUTOMATIC transmission. Toyota claims the Camry Ascent Sport uses 4.0L/100km of Premium Unleaded in the combined city and highway cycle while putting out 91g of CO2. It has a 50L fuel tank, meaning it should be able to travel 1250km per full tank. The camry is a very upmarket car. The auto is smooth, efficient, quiet and very very reliable, even by Toyota standards. the entire drive train has been Taxi tested for decades jump to 10:55 Camry gets over 400,000  kms  when used as a taxi: Top 10 Australian Cars That NEVER Break Down | Most Reliable Aussie Cars Ever https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4aiPaa0WIo

400Kms it'lll just be run in.

Mine has 345,000 kms as a car.
I see little wrong with it. Easily good for 500,000 kms.
That is the reason they are so expensive 2nd hand.

Mine is 20 years old, a newer one is much better designed and built

freediver wrote on Apr 27^th, 2026 at 10:00am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 26th, 2026 at 9:43am: freediver wrote on Apr 26th, 2026 at 8:26am: Do you think that the influence of communism on a society can disappear overnight because Deng Xiaoping clicks his fingers? For someone who insists that a centuries-old cultural saying is responsible, you are remarkably optimistic about the pace at which a society can change. Why do you think I keep saying things like China "was" communist, rather than China "is" communist? Some kind of trick? The economic situations of nearly all former communist Eastern European countries, including East Germany, improved rapidly within a few years once their citizens were re-motivated by profit through personal enterprise. There is no reason to believe that the Chinese dragged their feet under the rule of Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao... and there's clear evidence that they took to capitalism almost as quickly as Native Americans did to horseback riding after their reintroduction via the Spanish, triggering their ancient instincts. In fact, one component of cha bu duo is not the laziness theme, but also the personal profit motive of cutting corners and defrauding people with poorly- and cheaply-made goods for more profit. So you no longer believe I was claiming that China is still communist? How long did the influence of communism last in those ex-communist countries?

Meister have you been assuming it must all be attributable to the old saying because the influence of communism on China ceased the minute they let go of communism, but the saying remained?

chinese cars will outsell the useless american made cars within 18 months


Quote:

........  The boss of the Detroit automaker described the cost and quality of the electric vehicles coming out of China as "far superior" to those in the West, adding that they posed an existential threat to Ford and the US auto industry.         .......

https://www.businessinsider.com/3-ways-chinese-evs-are-different-from-their-us-rivals-2025-7

freediver wrote on May 1^st, 2026 at 10:48am:

Meister have you been assuming it must all be attributable to the old saying because the influence of communism on China ceased the minute they let go of communism, but the saying remained?

After the pills kick in, do some quick research on the cultural phenomenon of chabuduo... All Chinese are aware of it.

As for Marxist-Leninist communism in China, it was imposed in 1949 and began to decline after the death of Mao and the rise of Deng Xiaoping. It had vanished completely by the time China was admitted to the WTO in 2001. Given that Chinese culture is about 5000 years old, Chinese communism accounts for just 1% of that time.

The effects of communism in Europe after it collapsed (which had been imposed for roughly the same amount of time) had disappeared within 10 years.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/coal-production-by-country-2024.jpg

Sprintcyclist wrote on Apr 30^th, 2026 at 12:37am:

400Kms it'lll just be run in. Mine has 345,000 kms as a car. I see little wrong with it. Easily good for 500,000 kms. That is the reason they are so expensive 2nd hand. Mine is 20 years old, a newer one is much better designed and built

That is debatable -
newer cars have much more lousy cheap plastic items
and too much high technology electronics that can fail.
I reckon 20 years ago they made tougher, better cars. 

Bobby. wrote on Apr 27^th, 2026 at 12:01pm:

And a lot of the stuff - you don't want and you don't need - all the electronic gizmos - I'd rather they spend more money on making the engine and suspension bullet proof.

All that electronic stuff like lane assist auto emergency braking etc are forced on us by government with Australian Design Rules

Cars that are fuel injected (Since 1980s) have durable engines compared to older cars they never run rich which causes fuel to wash oil from the bores and they don't ping which stuffs bearings and pistons.
This is also reflected in oil change duration increasing as fuel isn't contaminating oil with blow by from piston rings.
The older carby/points engines were lucky to last 100,000 km before needing a full rebuild.

Electronic rev limiters also stop idiots damaging engines and GM in the US noticed a huge decrease in warranty claims for diffs and gearboxes when they had traction control which stopped people doing burnouts.

The first Commodore was based on German Opal they broke the prototype in half testing in outback.
German engineers were stunned at how we would drive at 100-110 kph down dirt roads for hours on end.
Might be one reason why those who live in rural areas liked Aussie made cars. ;)

Baronvonrort wrote on May 7^th, 2026 at 10:28pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 27th, 2026 at 12:01pm: And a lot of the stuff - you don't want and you don't need - all the electronic gizmos - I'd rather they spend more money on making the engine and suspension bullet proof. All that electronic stuff like lane assist auto emergency braking etc are forced on us by government with Australian Design Rules Cars that are fuel injected (Since 1980s) have durable engines compared to older cars they never run rich which causes fuel to wash oil from the bores and they don't ping which stuffs bearings and pistons. This is also reflected in oil change duration increasing as fuel isn't contaminating oil with blow by from piston rings. The older carby/points engines were lucky to last 100,000 km before needing a full rebuild. Electronic rev limiters also stop idiots damaging engines and GM in the US noticed a huge decrease in warranty claims for diffs and gearboxes when they had traction control which stopped people doing burnouts. The first Commodore was based on German Opal they broke the prototype in half testing in outback. German engineers were stunned at how we would drive at 100-110 kph down dirt roads for hours on end. Might be one reason why those who live in rural areas liked Aussie made cars. ;)

yes - and air bags used to be optional extras but now they are compulsory.

Google AI:

effectively all new cars sold in Australia must have airbags. While airbags are officially classified as "supplementary safety equipment" rather than a standalone mandatory component, the Australian Design Rules (ADRs) require new passenger vehicles to meet strict occupant protection standards that necessitate their inclusion.

Regulatory Mandate: Under the ADRs and Motor Vehicle Standards, new passenger cars and light vehicles supplied since July 1, 2021, must meet comprehensive occupant protection standards.  These standards effectively mandate that frontal airbags (for driver and front passenger) are standard equipment to pass compliance.


Historical Context: Frontal airbags have been required for new models since the late 1990s (specifically following ADR 69/02 introduced in 1995/1999).  By the early 1990s, they had already become standard on most new cars due to regulatory pressure and consumer demand.


Older Vehicles: It is legal to drive older vehicles that were manufactured without airbags, provided they are roadworthy and registered.  There is no requirement to retrofit airbags into cars that did not originally come with them.


Current Standards: Today, most new vehicles in Australia come equipped with multiple airbags (often six or more), including side and curtain airbags, which are increasingly becoming standard or legally required for head protection in many jurisdictions.

ADR 98/00 requires all cars made after March 2025 to have AEB (Automatic Emergency Braking)

ADR 107/00 requires all cars to have lane departure warning and active correction to steer car back into lane.

Government forces car makers to do as they say or cars can't be sold here.

If we wanted a simple reliable car without all this BS it can't happen our politicians don't allow it.

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 7^th, 2026 at 7:07pm:

As for Marxist-Leninist communism in China, it was imposed in 1949 and began to decline after the death of Mao and the rise of Deng Xiaoping. It had vanished completely by the time China was admitted to the WTO in 2001. Given that Chinese culture is about 5000 years old, Chinese communism accounts for just 1% of that time.

The roots of China’s recurring quality-control problems lie partly in its extremely rapid transition from a rural, craft-and-smallholder economy into mass industrial production.

Maoist industrialisation created heavy industry but not a mature culture of market-tested industrial quality.

Deng’s reforms succeeded in building vast manufacturing capacity, but often under conditions where reliance on slave labour, speed, low cost, subcontracting, and export volume mattered more than durability or long-term brand reputation.

The cultural idea of chabuduo (if it looks good, it is good) survived modernisation, and has severely damaged Chinese manufacturing, particularly where institutions, customers, regulators, and legal liability fail to punish it, and has infected every industry in China, with quality control being the least of Chinese manufacturers' concerns.

Chabuduo: 'If we run out of horses, cut off the antlers, stitch on a mane and a tail, and a deer is now a horse'.

Baronvonrort wrote on May 7^th, 2026 at 11:04pm:

ADR 98/00 requires all cars made after March 2025 to have AEB (Automatic Emergency Braking) ADR 107/00 requires all cars to have lane departure warning and active correction to steer car back into lane. Government forces car makers to do as they say or cars can't be sold here. If we wanted a simple reliable car without all this BS it can't happen our politicians don't allow it.

I suppose the Govt. is well meaning but I don't believe so many
so called safety features should be forced on to drivers -
some could have negative outcomes too.
Remember the Takata air bags fiasco?   ::)


Google AI:

The Takata airbag scandal is the largest automotive safety recall in history, involving approximately 100 million vehicles globally due to defective airbag inflators that can explode and propel sharp metal shrapnel into the vehicle cabin, causing severe injury or death.  Takata Corporation filed for bankruptcy in April 2018 after admitting to data falsification and improper storage of the ammonium nitrate propellant, which becomes unstable and explosive when exposed to heat and humidity over time.

Bobby. wrote on May 8^th, 2026 at 10:17am:

Baronvonrort wrote on May 7th, 2026 at 11:04pm: ADR 98/00 requires all cars made after March 2025 to have AEB (Automatic Emergency Braking) ADR 107/00 requires all cars to have lane departure warning and active correction to steer car back into lane. Government forces car makers to do as they say or cars can't be sold here. If we wanted a simple reliable car without all this BS it can't happen our politicians don't allow it. I suppose the Govt. is well meaning but I don't believe so many so called safety features should be forced on to drivers - some could have negative outcomes too. Remember the Takata air bags fiasco?   ::) Google AI: The Takata airbag scandal is the largest automotive safety recall in history, involving approximately 100 million vehicles globally due to defective airbag inflators that can explode and propel sharp metal shrapnel into the vehicle cabin, causing severe injury or death.  Takata Corporation filed for bankruptcy in April 2018 after admitting to data falsification and improper storage of the ammonium nitrate propellant, which becomes unstable and explosive when exposed to heat and humidity over time.

Major explosions at Chinese manufacturing plants are common across the country, with poor and sub-standard storage of explosive materials almost exclusively to blame.

Inquiries into manufacturing explosions or the production of lethally faulty goods are rarely completed, with Chinese media censors initially allowing reporting of incidents, but routinely ban further reporting after a week or so, giving central, local, and provincial authorities ample time to shut down official inquiries and move on.

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8^th, 2026 at 10:40am:

Major explosions at Chinese manufacturing plants are common across the country, with poor and sub-standard storage of explosive materials almost exclusively to blame.

Takata Corporation (タカタ株式会社, Takata Kabushiki Gaisha) was a Japanese automotive parts company.
The company had production facilities on four continents, with its European headquarters located in Germany.

Bobby. wrote on May 8^th, 2026 at 10:49am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8th, 2026 at 10:40am: Major explosions at Chinese manufacturing plants are common across the country, with poor and sub-standard storage of explosive materials almost exclusively to blame. Takata Corporation (タカタ株式会社, Takata Kabushiki Gaisha) was a Japanese automotive parts company. The company had production facilities on four continents, with its European headquarters located in Germany.

These issues can and do occur in other countries...

The so-called 'Dieselgate' with VW in Germany, or the Beirut fertiliser explosion, for example.

The difference being that authorities in those countries conduct thorough enquiries, allow unhindered national media exposure and impose criminal and financial consequences to those found responsible.

Chinese authorities rarely do so relative to the number that are initially reported.

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8^th, 2026 at 10:57am:

Bobby. wrote on May 8th, 2026 at 10:49am: MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8th, 2026 at 10:40am: Major explosions at Chinese manufacturing plants are common across the country, with poor and sub-standard storage of explosive materials almost exclusively to blame. Takata Corporation (タカタ株式会社, Takata Kabushiki Gaisha) was a Japanese automotive parts company. The company had production facilities on four continents, with its European headquarters located in Germany. These issues can and do occur in other countries... The so-called 'Dieselgate' with VW in Germany, or the Beirut fertiliser explosion, for example. The difference being that authorities in those countries conduct thorough enquiries, allow unhindered national media exposure and impose criminal and financial consequences to those found responsible. Chinese authorities rarely do so relative to the number that are initially reported.

The fact is that well meaning Govts forced us to have explosives in our cars by law!
They still do it now.   ::)

Bobby. wrote on May 8^th, 2026 at 11:06am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8th, 2026 at 10:57am: Bobby. wrote on May 8th, 2026 at 10:49am: MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8th, 2026 at 10:40am: Major explosions at Chinese manufacturing plants are common across the country, with poor and sub-standard storage of explosive materials almost exclusively to blame. Takata Corporation (タカタ株式会社, Takata Kabushiki Gaisha) was a Japanese automotive parts company. The company had production facilities on four continents, with its European headquarters located in Germany. These issues can and do occur in other countries... The so-called 'Dieselgate' with VW in Germany, or the Beirut fertiliser explosion, for example. The difference being that authorities in those countries conduct thorough enquiries, allow unhindered national media exposure and impose criminal and financial consequences to those found responsible. Chinese authorities rarely do so relative to the number that are initially reported. The fact is that well meaning Govts forced us to have explosives in our cars by law! They still do it now.   ::)

We've been driving and travelling in vehicles that contain explosive materials and/or explosive infrastructure since before 1900, so...

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8^th, 2026 at 11:19am:

Bobby. wrote on May 8th, 2026 at 11:06am: The fact is that well meaning Govts forced us to have explosives in our cars by law! They still do it now.   ::) We've been driving and travelling in vehicles that contain explosive materials and/or explosive infrastructure since before 1900, so...

You mean petrol in the petrol tank?

Don't be so silly.    ::)


Google AI:


Defective Takata airbags have been linked to over 350 serious injuries and at least 38 deaths worldwide, with 28 fatalities confirmed in the United States since 2009.  The defect causes the airbag inflator to rupture explosively upon deployment, sending metal shrapnel into the vehicle cabin, which can cause severe lacerations, traumatic brain injuries, or fatal arterial damage even in low-speed collisions.

The injuries and deaths resulted from ammonium nitrate propellant degrading due to exposure to heat and humidity, a flaw Takata failed to adequately address before the company filed for bankruptcy in 2017.  This crisis led to the largest automotive recall in U.S. history, involving over 100 million airbag inflators globally, with millions of vehicles still requiring replacement to mitigate the ongoing risk of fatal rupture.

Bobby. wrote on May 8^th, 2026 at 5:05pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8th, 2026 at 11:19am: Bobby. wrote on May 8th, 2026 at 11:06am: The fact is that well meaning Govts forced us to have explosives in our cars by law! They still do it now.   ::) We've been driving and travelling in vehicles that contain explosive materials and/or explosive infrastructure since before 1900, so... You mean petrol in the petrol tank? Don't be so silly.    ::) Google AI: Defective Takata airbags have been linked to over 350 serious injuries and at least 38 deaths worldwide, with 28 fatalities confirmed in the United States since 2009.  The defect causes the airbag inflator to rupture explosively upon deployment, sending metal shrapnel into the vehicle cabin, which can cause severe lacerations, traumatic brain injuries, or fatal arterial damage even in low-speed collisions. The injuries and deaths resulted from ammonium nitrate propellant degrading due to exposure to heat and humidity, a flaw Takata failed to adequately address before the company filed for bankruptcy in 2017.  This crisis led to the largest automotive recall in U.S. history, involving over 100 million airbag inflators globally, with millions of vehicles still requiring replacement to mitigate the ongoing risk of fatal rupture.

What are the stats from petrol and gas burns?

The problem is not the use of explosive and inflammable substances in vehicles... if it were, we also shouldn't be able to buy Lithium-battery-powered electric vehicles.

The issue is illegal cost-cutting or fraudulent means to bypass safety standards.

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 8^th, 2026 at 5:14pm:

What are the stats from petrol and gas burns? The problem is not the use of explosive and inflammable substances in vehicles... if it were, we also shouldn't be able to buy Lithium-battery-powered electric vehicles. The issue is illegal cost-cutting or fraudulent means to bypass safety standards.

Dunno but -
ammonium nitrate propellant degrades due to exposure to heat and humidity.
( I believe it gets more powerful with age - crystalization)

Was it ever a suitable explosive inside an air bag for a car?

What do they use now?