The Haganah was a Zionist paramilitary organisation in British Mandate Palestine, established in 1920. It served as the main Jewish defense force during a period of conflict with Arab communities. The Haganah later became the core of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).

And, along with Haganah, there was also its complement - Lehi - the Stern Gang.

These Jewish paramilitary groups, formed by Jewish-Polish soldiers, were the enforcers of Zionism who committed terrorist acts against the British in Mandatory Palestine and Arabs, equal to the Hamas atrocity in 2023, and were instrumental in cleansing the land, that would soon be Israel, of Arabs.

The Stern Gang were the most ruthless - and revelled in their condemnation as terrorists - they praised and emulated the tactics of the Bolsheviks and swore allegiance only to the Law - the Torah (sound familiar?)

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 18^th, 2025 at 10:22pm:

The Haganah was a Zionist paramilitary organisation in British Mandate Palestine, established in 1920. It served as the main Jewish defense force during a period of conflict with Arab communities. The Haganah later became the core of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). And, along with Haganah, there was also its complement - Lehi - the Stern Gang. These Jewish paramilitary groups, formed by Jewish-Polish soldiers, were the enforcers of Zionism who committed terrorist acts against the British in Mandatory Palestine and Arabs, equal to the Hamas atrocity in 2023, and were instrumental in cleansing the land, that would soon be Israel, of Arabs.

So how is it that 2 million out of 7 million or so in Israel - all citizens - are Arabs with full and equal rights? You can handle that question, Herr Goebbels.

Are you ... like.. a Judeophobe or something, Adolph?  I'm only 10% Ashkenazi... but I'll come to your party.... I'm your huckleberry....

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Aug 18^th, 2025 at 11:59pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 18th, 2025 at 10:22pm: The Haganah was a Zionist paramilitary organisation in British Mandate Palestine, established in 1920. It served as the main Jewish defense force during a period of conflict with Arab communities. The Haganah later became the core of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF). And, along with Haganah, there was also its complement - Lehi - the Stern Gang. These Jewish paramilitary groups, formed by Jewish-Polish soldiers, were the enforcers of Zionism who committed terrorist acts against the British in Mandatory Palestine and Arabs, equal to the Hamas atrocity in 2023, and were instrumental in cleansing the land, that would soon be Israel, of Arabs. So how is it that 2 million out of 7 million or so in Israel - all citizens - are Arabs with full and equal rights? You can handle that question, Herr Goebbels.

Conditions for UN recognition of Israel included: Haganah, the Stern Gang and Menachem Begin's Revisionists ceasing all terrorist activities, their being absorbed completely into the IDF, and granting full citizenship to all people, regardless of status (Jew, non-Jew, Arab), living within the Israeli borders as of the independence date - May 14, 1948... and David Ben Gurion agreed.

Was listening to a rest is history podcast on Jerusalem. Control of the city has changed hands over 40 times.
Though there is no doubt the Jews were there first. Their religion pre dates both Christianity and Islam.

Anyway it was a fascinating listen.

The extremist Haganah and the Stern Gang, already in Palestine, offered to ally with the Nazis against the British in the early 40s before the US entered the war, in return for allowing the mass migration of European Jews into Palestine.

The Nazis considered it a final solution to the Jewish question in Europe.

They ultimately declined as they intended to invade and occupy the region, which would have landed them with the problem of contending with a large concentration of empowered and militant Jews, many of whom were highly trained Polish Jewish soldiers.

aquascoot wrote on Aug 19^th, 2025 at 6:32am:

Was listening to a rest is history podcast on Jerusalem. Control of the city has changed hands over 40 times. Though there is no doubt the Jews were there first. Their religion pre dates both Christianity and Islam. Anyway it was a fascinating listen.

Romans, then Roman Christians, then Byzantine Christians, then Catholics, then Byzantine Orthodox Christians, then Muslims...

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 19^th, 2025 at 6:39am:

The extremist Haganah and the Stern Gang, already in Palestine, offered to ally with the Nazis against the British in the early 40s before the US entered the war, in return for allowing the mass migration of European Jews into Palestine. The Nazis considered it a final solution to the Jewish question in Europe. They ultimately declined as they intended to invade and occupy the region, which would have landed them with the problem of contending with a large concentration of empowered and militant Jews, many of whom were highly trained Polish Jewish soldiers.

Never knew that.

Anti semitism does run deep.
2 Jewish prisoners, one of whom wrote a excellent book, escaped from Auschwitz and made it to the allies.
One of them had an autistic type old brain and dictated numbers on people's arms and train schedules to Auschwitz which checked out.

The allies realised the trains were running from Hungary in 1944 when this came out. 15 000 people a day.
Churchill was all for bombing the train line which may have saved about 400,000 Jews over the next 6 weeks.
But the British command and even Eisenhower said they were too busy in Normandy to spare even a single raid.

Another amazing podcast

aquascoot wrote on Aug 19^th, 2025 at 6:50am:

The allies realised the trains were running from Hungary in 1944 when this came out. 15 000 people a day. Churchill was all for bombing the train line which may have saved about 400,000 Jews over the next 6 weeks. But the British command and even Eisenhower said they were too busy in Normandy to spare even a single raid. Another amazing podcast

Roosevelt had been informed of the mass murder of Jews almost from the start of the Final Solution, directly from the evidence presented by Polish Jewish underground militants - all military-trained in Poland - who, amazingly, posed as prisoners in Auschwitz, recorded what they witnessed, managed to escape Auschwitz and reported it to the Polish underground.

Roosevelt ultimately declined to respond to the intel, as American Jew-hate was almost as virulent as its European cousin, and the likelihood that thousands of European Jewish refugees entering the US could have turned the American public against his administration.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 19^th, 2025 at 7:04am:

aquascoot wrote on Aug 19th, 2025 at 6:50am: The allies realised the trains were running from Hungary in 1944 when this came out. 15 000 people a day. Churchill was all for bombing the train line which may have saved about 400,000 Jews over the next 6 weeks. But the British command and even Eisenhower said they were too busy in Normandy to spare even a single raid. Another amazing podcast Roosevelt had been informed of the mass murder of Jews almost from the start of the Final Solution, directly from the evidence presented by Polish Jewish underground militants - all military-trained in Poland - who, amazingly, posed as prisoners in Auschwitz, recorded what they witnessed, managed to escape Auschwitz and reported it to the Polish underground. Roosevelt ultimately declined to respond to the intel, as American Jew-hate was almost as virulent as its European cousin, and the likelihood that thousands of European Jewish refugees entering the US could have turned the American public against his administration.

Yes. Quite extraordinary.
As was the anti catholic bombing of Monte casino and of catholic Dresden.

All wars are religious wars

Jewish terrorist activities cannot be understood without understanding their central protagonist and instigator, Menachem Begin.

Begin's clear and intransigent message to the British and the Arabs in Palestine before the establishment of the Israeli state, evolving from his Zionist extremist beliefs, could be distilled down to two words: Get Out.

Begin instigated and organised the plots that resulted in the murders of British soldiers, policemen and diplomats in Palestine and hundreds of Arab villagers within the region, whose flight into the surrounding Arab lands, and their reports of mass killings, caused universal outrage throughout the region.

The IDF cannot be understood without understanding its core founders - the Zionist paramilitary personnel of the Hanagah, the Lehi (Stern Gang) and the Revisionists.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 19^th, 2025 at 8:37am:

The IDF cannot be understood without understanding its core founders - the Zionist paramilitary personnel of the Hanagah, the Lehi (Stern Gang) and the Revisionists.

With that in mind, place the IDF, trained in the ethos of the paramilitary Zionists, in Gaza.

The Stern Gang was more like a private criminal mob, not?

(From Exodus by Leon Uris, only real source I have read, believed for a while but came to see it as pure propaganda.)

Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 19^th, 2025 at 9:55am:

The Stern Gang was more like a private criminal mob, not?

It's not a case of what they were more like, it's about who they were and what they did... and their legacy within the IDF today.

During the ten years before Israeli statehood, there were deep ideological divisions within the Zionist movement.

The was Ben Gurion and the Jewish Agency, who worked with the British to peacefully establish Jewish enclaves in Palestine through negotiation with the Arabs... then there were the paramilitary groups who favoured the creation of an Israeli state by armed force.

These divisions were so serious that they could have triggered civil war among Jews living in Palestine, which would probably have spread to the Jewish diaspora.

To avoid open, publicly-aired Zionist divisions during the Zionist paramilitary's terror campaign in Palestine, Menachem Begin, ever the consummate leader, took full personal responsibility for all acts of terrorism by all Zionist paramilitary groups, which prompted the British to put a 10,000-pound bounty on his head - dead or alive - and tried to hunt him down.

Regurgitation of selected snippets of history to excuse the Islamic terrorists of today.  ::)

Belgarion wrote on Aug 19^th, 2025 at 10:44am:

Regurgitation of selected snippets of history to excuse the Islamic terrorists of today.  ::)

Ignorance of Jewish actions before 1948 to make sweeping generalisations on the Arab reaction to it.

Elizabeth II vowed never to step foot in Israel as she never forgave Zionist paramilitary terrorism against Arabs and personnel of the British Mandate in Palestine.

British senior ministers were sent letter bombs from Zionist paramilitaries, which were only discovered in time when one was making a hissing sound, prompting a secretary to put it in a bucket of water and contact the police.

Anthony Eden avoided having his head blown off when he had received his package early, but, assuming it was cabinet papers, decided to read them over the weekend... enough time for MI5 to warn him and all ministers not to open any packages they'd received

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 19^th, 2025 at 10:55am:

Elizabeth II vowed never to step foot in Israel as she never forgave Zionist paramilitary terrorism against Arabs and personnel of the British Mandate in Palestine.

For every Zionist terrorist the British captured, tried and executed, the Zionist paramilitaries would kidnap an innocent British soldier in Palestine, of the highest rank possible and execute, or torture then execute, them and leave their bodies in public places.

For every Zionist terrorist the British captured, tried and sentenced to 18 lashes, the Zionists would kidnap innocent British officers, strip them naked, lash them 18 times and return them naked, in public, from where they'd kidnapped them.

I already know this as I have read quite a lot about the history of the Middle East and other places over the years. However the the only reason you are bringing it up now is as some sort of moral relativism to excuse the actions of Islamic terrorists today and demonise todays IDF. 

Had this kind of paramilitary action against the British happened in, say, India, British forces would probably have massacred whole towns in retaliation.

However, this was Palestine and the paramilitaries were Jews, and with the world watching - and with world opinion in Europe and the US deeply sympathetic to the Jewish plight, after what it was by then clear had been done to them during the Holocaust - British hands were tied as to how brutal they could be towards Jews.

Belgarion wrote on Aug 19^th, 2025 at 11:16am:

I already know this as I have read quite a lot about the history of the Middle East and other places over the years. However the the only reason you are bringing it up now is as some sort of moral relativism to excuse the actions of Islamic terrorists today and demonise todays IDF.

I am bringing it up to provide context and balance to an argument that is deeply one-sided here and on other sites.

The road to the creation of Israel as a state was a long and bloody one... how could it not have been?

Should Israel remain as a state? Of course it should... Europeans can not be trusted to leave Jews in peace...

As Begin said, Never again should Jews be forced to suffer persecution at the hands of any people. Never again should they be forced to bow their heads in shame when mocked, ridiculed and beaten by their so-called European countrymen.  Never again.

The British didn't help the cause with their usual imperial double-dealing to divide and rule - Assuring the Arabs that strict quotas of Jewish immigrants would remain in force... that the land would one day be ruled by Arabs... that the land would never be partitioned.

Assuring the Jews that they would have autonomy within their partitioned enclaves.

All the while lying to the British public and the world about how incompetently and duplicitously they were running their mandate in Palestine.

Tens of thousands of illegal immigrants were pouring into Palestine, assisted by Jewish paramilitary groups, as were caches of arms, to the degree that local Arabs could see clearly that these many people could only be accommodated and sustained by the taking of Arab land and evicting Arabs from it.

Of course, the British assured the Arabs that that would not be happening.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 19^th, 2025 at 11:05am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 19th, 2025 at 10:55am: Elizabeth II vowed never to step foot in Israel as she never forgave Zionist paramilitary terrorism against Arabs and personnel of the British Mandate in Palestine. For every Zionist terrorist the British captured, tried and executed, the Zionist paramilitaries would kidnap an innocent British soldier in Palestine, of the highest rank possible and execute, or torture then execute, them and leave their bodies in public places. For every Zionist terrorist the British captured, tried and sentenced to 18 lashes, the Zionists would kidnap innocent British officers, strip them naked, lash them 18 times and return them naked, in public, from where they'd kidnapped them.

Did the Zionists ever go to an English music festival. Kidnap 1500 young people. Cut the Achilles tendon of the young female attendees. Pack rape them and then shelter underground in Jerusalem refusing to let civilians take shelter in their tunnels ?

aquascoot wrote on Aug 19^th, 2025 at 12:22pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 19th, 2025 at 11:05am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 19th, 2025 at 10:55am: Elizabeth II vowed never to step foot in Israel as she never forgave Zionist paramilitary terrorism against Arabs and personnel of the British Mandate in Palestine. For every Zionist terrorist the British captured, tried and executed, the Zionist paramilitaries would kidnap an innocent British soldier in Palestine, of the highest rank possible and execute, or torture then execute, them and leave their bodies in public places. For every Zionist terrorist the British captured, tried and sentenced to 18 lashes, the Zionists would kidnap innocent British officers, strip them naked, lash them 18 times and return them naked, in public, from where they'd kidnapped them. Did the Zionists ever go to an English music festival. Kidnap 1500 young people. Cut the Achilles tendon of the young female attendees. Pack rape them and then shelter underground in Jerusalem refusing to let civilians take shelter in their tunnels ?

The Zionist paramilitaries and the early IDF committed atrocities to cleanse the land of what David Ben Gurion called 'the strangers', indiscriminately murdering Arabs in their homes, then, under Ben Gurion's orders, forced survivors to leave their homes, taking only what they could carry, on death marches towards the general direction of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon, where many of their descendants still live in refugee camps today.

IDF soldiers followed behind looking for anyone with gold or jewellery, at first dropped by Arabs during their forced march, then on corpses as they began to succumb to the heat and thirst of the desert and, finally, shaking down the living for valuables at the point of a gun.

And Menachem Begin - leader of the Zionist Revisionist paramilitary group, and Yitzhak Shamir - leader of the Lehi (the Stern Gang), both condemned outside of Israel as murderers, terrorists and war criminals?

They were both elected as Israeli prime ministers.

It's easy to see why Elizabeth II considered Israel a terrorist state.

aquascoot wrote on Aug 19^th, 2025 at 6:32am:

Was listening to a rest is history podcast on Jerusalem. Control of the city has changed hands over 40 times. Though there is no doubt the Jews were there first. Their religion pre dates both Christianity and Islam. Anyway it was a fascinating listen.

Your error: David conquered Jerusalem from a Canaanite tribe called the Jebusites.....

Back to the present: the "Chosen People" with their "Promised Land" ideology are revealing the ugliness of their ideology now, through the voices of the RW fundamentalists in Net's government who are determined to confiscate the WB.

The Oz government is correct to ban entry into Oz for such pernicious ideologues, who are blindly bleating about 'antisemitism'.....

Meanwhile the US with its "in God* we trust" motto, is standing by while these Jewish goons are engaged in ethic cleansing of land which belings to Palestinians, as per UN res 181.

*Trump's base in the US of course conflates Christ with Jehovah*, so Trump is giving the IDF free rein in Palestine....surely the Nobel committee won't be pleased, even if Trump manages to stop the war in Ukraine.

*Marcion faced that problem at the beginning of Christianity in the 1st century CE, and excised the OT from early Christian scripture which was however later reincorporated alongside the evolving NT, to form the Christian Bible.

Hence Moses' genocidal instincts are destroying peace in our world again. 

An Israeli pastime was to meet in the hills overlooking Palestinian areas like Gaza to have a picnic and cheer as Israeli jets strafed the area, bringing down buildings.

Why, exactly, was a music festival held directly in front of the wire separating the Gaza Strip from Israel?

What is inexplicable was that, after Israeli statehood in 1948, the Zionist paramilitaries and later the Israeli IDF were unconcerned that their attacks on Palestinians or their infighting, was being witnessed not only by the world's media, but by foreign diplomats, as with the Altalena Affair, for example, when Begin attempted to smuggle arms and paramilitary personnel into Israel to carry on the attacks against Arabs without Ben Gurion's authority.

The entire affair played out on Tel Aviv beach, in front of the world's media and foreign diplomats.

Begin wanted the Zionist paramilitaries to be a separate wing of the IDF, which Ben Gurion suspected Begin would use as his own private army to stage a military coup and overthrow the government.

aquascoot wrote on Aug 19^th, 2025 at 12:22pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 19th, 2025 at 11:05am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 19th, 2025 at 10:55am: Elizabeth II vowed never to step foot in Israel as she never forgave Zionist paramilitary terrorism against Arabs and personnel of the British Mandate in Palestine. For every Zionist terrorist the British captured, tried and executed, the Zionist paramilitaries would kidnap an innocent British soldier in Palestine, of the highest rank possible and execute, or torture then execute, them and leave their bodies in public places. For every Zionist terrorist the British captured, tried and sentenced to 18 lashes, the Zionists would kidnap innocent British officers, strip them naked, lash them 18 times and return them naked, in public, from where they'd kidnapped them. Did the Zionists ever go to an English music festival. Kidnap 1500 young people. Cut the Achilles tendon of the young female attendees. Pack rape them and then shelter underground in Jerusalem refusing to let civilians take shelter in their tunnels ?

Your error: David conquered Jerusalem from a Canaanite tribe called the Jebusites.....

Back to the present: the "Chosen People" with their "Promised Land" ideology are revealing the ugliness of their ideology now, through the voices of the RW fundamentalists in Net's government who are determined to confiscate the WB.

The Oz government is correct to ban entry into Oz for such pernicious ideologues, who are blindly bleating about 'antisemitism'.....

Meanwhile the US with its "in God* we trust" motto, is standing by while these Jewish goons are engaged in ethic cleansing of land which belings to Palestinians, as per UN res 181.

*Trump's base in the US of course conflates Christ with Jehovah*, so Trump is giving the IDF free rein in Palestine....surely the Nobel committee won't be pleased, even if Trump manages to stop the war in Ukraine.

*Marcion faced that problem at the beginning of Christianity in the 1st century CE, and excised the OT from early Christian scripture which was however later reincorporated alongside the evolving NT, to form the Christian Bible.

Hence Moses' genocidal instincts are destroying peace in our world again.

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 19^th, 2025 at 1:49pm:

Hence Moses' genocidal instincts are destroying peace in our world again.

Interesting how even Israeli archeologists accept that Moses likely did not exist. That likely 400 years of bondage in Egypt didn't happen.

No one can even agree where Mount Zion was.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 19^th, 2025 at 5:21pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 19th, 2025 at 1:49pm: Hence Moses' genocidal instincts are destroying peace in our world again. Interesting how even Israeli archeologists accept that Moses likely did not exist. That likely 400 years of bondage in Egypt didn't happen. No one can even agree where Mount Zion was.

The important thing is the judeo christian world believes that Moses - as per  OT scripture - DID exist.

And so today a large percenatge of Trump's base is demanding the return of the "Promised Land" for Jews....heralding the return of Christ mentioned in both the old and new testaments.


Hence the US today, like Isreal, is a rogue state defying international law institutions like the ICC and ICJ; today we see the  US sanctioning an  ICC  French judge for issuing an arrest warrant against Netanyahu.

Meanwhile both Net and Trump are defying independence of the judiciary in their own countries.

Deplorable.