You may be wondering where Trump developed his love of tariffs and what he's based his tariff plans on. Well, watch this clip and you'll know. But make sure you're sitting down first, because it's shocking....

https://youtu.be/MJbZCbBLqkk?si=b0qRDV0Gj7rOTkvE

Madcow disease has struck.

Leroy wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 10:56am:

Madcow disease has struck.

The truth hurts, doesn't it? It's okay for you to cry. Let it out. It's a healing process. Trump is a dumbass. :)

Ah.

Navarro.

A convicted criminal who made up a fake expert.

Makes perfect sense.

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 11:10am:

Ah. Navarro. A convicted criminal who made up a fake expert. Makes perfect sense.

Shh, don't tell Fwank. His head will explode!

He doesn't have much of a head left after all the scalpings, I suspect he'll hide from this thread too.

New tariff rates snapped in:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/07/business/economy/trump-tariffs-trade-war.html

Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 10:51am:

You may be wondering where Trump developed his love of tariffs and what he's based his tariff plans on. Well, watch this clip and you'll know. But make sure you're sitting down first, because it's shocking.... https://youtu.be/MJbZCbBLqkk?si=b0qRDV0Gj7rOTkvE

This is 4 months old
And who takes this bloke seriously??  Apart from woke TDS toddlers.

Frank wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 2:33pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 10:51am: You may be wondering where Trump developed his love of tariffs and what he's based his tariff plans on. Well, watch this clip and you'll know. But make sure you're sitting down first, because it's shocking.... https://youtu.be/MJbZCbBLqkk?si=b0qRDV0Gj7rOTkvE This is 4 months old And who takes this bloke seriously??  Apart from woke TDS toddler.

Which bit do you think is incorrect?

We can go through it sentence by sentence if you like.

Navarro is a convicted criminal who made up a fake expert - this is an indisputable and verifiable fact, so it can't be that particular point that triggers you.

So, where is the supposed inaccuracy?

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 2:36pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:33pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 10:51am: You may be wondering where Trump developed his love of tariffs and what he's based his tariff plans on. Well, watch this clip and you'll know. But make sure you're sitting down first, because it's shocking.... https://youtu.be/MJbZCbBLqkk?si=b0qRDV0Gj7rOTkvE This is 4 months old And who takes this bloke seriously??  Apart from woke TDS toddler. Which bit do you think is incorrect? We can go through it sentence by sentence if you like. Navarro is a convicted criminal who made up a fake expert - this is an indisputable and verifiable fact, so it can't be that particular point that triggers you. So, where is the supposed inaccuracy?

https://y.yarn.co/d1b117b1-8990-4060-a969-03c9becbb817_text.gif

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 2:36pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:33pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 10:51am: You may be wondering where Trump developed his love of tariffs and what he's based his tariff plans on. Well, watch this clip and you'll know. But make sure you're sitting down first, because it's shocking.... https://youtu.be/MJbZCbBLqkk?si=b0qRDV0Gj7rOTkvE This is 4 months old And who takes this bloke seriously??  Apart from woke TDS toddler. Which bit do you think is incorrect? We can go through it sentence by sentence if you like. Navarro is a convicted criminal who made up a fake expert - this is an indisputable and verifiable fact, so it can't be that particular point that triggers you. So, where is the supposed inaccuracy?

Yeah, go on. Go through it sentence by sentence.

Does it really surprise you that Trump is just as vulnerable to the very confirmation biases that underpin his entire support base?

The fish rots from the head.

Frank wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 3:38pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:36pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:33pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 10:51am: You may be wondering where Trump developed his love of tariffs and what he's based his tariff plans on. Well, watch this clip and you'll know. But make sure you're sitting down first, because it's shocking.... https://youtu.be/MJbZCbBLqkk?si=b0qRDV0Gj7rOTkvE This is 4 months old And who takes this bloke seriously??  Apart from woke TDS toddler. Which bit do you think is incorrect? We can go through it sentence by sentence if you like. Navarro is a convicted criminal who made up a fake expert - this is an indisputable and verifiable fact, so it can't be that particular point that triggers you. So, where is the supposed inaccuracy? Yeah, go on. Go through it sentence by sentence.

White flag accepted   ;)

Go buy another "gold" watch, Frannie.

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 3:39pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:38pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:36pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:33pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 10:51am: You may be wondering where Trump developed his love of tariffs and what he's based his tariff plans on. Well, watch this clip and you'll know. But make sure you're sitting down first, because it's shocking.... https://youtu.be/MJbZCbBLqkk?si=b0qRDV0Gj7rOTkvE This is 4 months old And who takes this bloke seriously??  Apart from woke TDS toddler. Which bit do you think is incorrect? We can go through it sentence by sentence if you like. Navarro is a convicted criminal who made up a fake expert - this is an indisputable and verifiable fact, so it can't be that particular point that triggers you. So, where is the supposed inaccuracy? Yeah, go on. Go through it sentence by sentence. White flag accepted   ;) Go buy another "gold" watch, Frannie.

YOU offered, creep, don't chicken out now.

Frank wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 3:40pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:39pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:38pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:36pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:33pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 10:51am: You may be wondering where Trump developed his love of tariffs and what he's based his tariff plans on. Well, watch this clip and you'll know. But make sure you're sitting down first, because it's shocking.... https://youtu.be/MJbZCbBLqkk?si=b0qRDV0Gj7rOTkvE This is 4 months old And who takes this bloke seriously??  Apart from woke TDS toddler. Which bit do you think is incorrect? We can go through it sentence by sentence if you like. Navarro is a convicted criminal who made up a fake expert - this is an indisputable and verifiable fact, so it can't be that particular point that triggers you. So, where is the supposed inaccuracy? Yeah, go on. Go through it sentence by sentence. White flag accepted   ;) Go buy another "gold" watch, Frannie. YOU offered, creep, don't chicken out now.

Before one embarks on such a time-consuming endeavour with Frank, a poster renowned for wriggling out of anything they cannot counter with logic, reason or evidence, I'd advise you to set the terms, Greggy.

If you're going to address each claim, insist he state in advance what source he would accept as proof that what you've said is true and not "fake news".

If he once again fails to do that up front, then he's not engaging in good faith, and you can call it for what it is, the white flag of surrender.

Frank wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 3:40pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:39pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:38pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:36pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:33pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 10:51am: You may be wondering where Trump developed his love of tariffs and what he's based his tariff plans on. Well, watch this clip and you'll know. But make sure you're sitting down first, because it's shocking.... https://youtu.be/MJbZCbBLqkk?si=b0qRDV0Gj7rOTkvE This is 4 months old And who takes this bloke seriously??  Apart from woke TDS toddler. Which bit do you think is incorrect? We can go through it sentence by sentence if you like. Navarro is a convicted criminal who made up a fake expert - this is an indisputable and verifiable fact, so it can't be that particular point that triggers you. So, where is the supposed inaccuracy? Yeah, go on. Go through it sentence by sentence. White flag accepted   ;) Go buy another "gold" watch, Frannie. YOU offered, creep, don't chicken out now.

Navarro is a convicted criminal - yes, or no?

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 3:49pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:40pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:39pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:38pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:36pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:33pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 10:51am: You may be wondering where Trump developed his love of tariffs and what he's based his tariff plans on. Well, watch this clip and you'll know. But make sure you're sitting down first, because it's shocking.... https://youtu.be/MJbZCbBLqkk?si=b0qRDV0Gj7rOTkvE This is 4 months old And who takes this bloke seriously??  Apart from woke TDS toddler. Which bit do you think is incorrect? We can go through it sentence by sentence if you like. Navarro is a convicted criminal who made up a fake expert - this is an indisputable and verifiable fact, so it can't be that particular point that triggers you. So, where is the supposed inaccuracy? Yeah, go on. Go through it sentence by sentence. White flag accepted   ;) Go buy another "gold" watch, Frannie. YOU offered, creep, don't chicken out now. Navarro is a convicted criminal - yes, or no?

NO. He is not a criminal.

Wrongfully convicted for political reasons by people like you.

Frank wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 3:55pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:49pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:40pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:39pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:38pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:36pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:33pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 10:51am: You may be wondering where Trump developed his love of tariffs and what he's based his tariff plans on. Well, watch this clip and you'll know. But make sure you're sitting down first, because it's shocking.... https://youtu.be/MJbZCbBLqkk?si=b0qRDV0Gj7rOTkvE This is 4 months old And who takes this bloke seriously??  Apart from woke TDS toddler. Which bit do you think is incorrect? We can go through it sentence by sentence if you like. Navarro is a convicted criminal who made up a fake expert - this is an indisputable and verifiable fact, so it can't be that particular point that triggers you. So, where is the supposed inaccuracy? Yeah, go on. Go through it sentence by sentence. White flag accepted   ;) Go buy another "gold" watch, Frannie. YOU offered, creep, don't chicken out now. Navarro is a convicted criminal - yes, or no? NO. He is not a criminal.

Wrong.

Navarro is a convicted criminal.

You're done here, Frank.

Go back to defending paedophiles and rapists - you do that better than anyone else.

A massive stumble at the first hurdle...

Wow.  Typical Frank.

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 3:44pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:40pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:39pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:38pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:36pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:33pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 10:51am: You may be wondering where Trump developed his love of tariffs and what he's based his tariff plans on. Well, watch this clip and you'll know. But make sure you're sitting down first, because it's shocking.... https://youtu.be/MJbZCbBLqkk?si=b0qRDV0Gj7rOTkvE This is 4 months old And who takes this bloke seriously??  Apart from woke TDS toddler. Which bit do you think is incorrect? We can go through it sentence by sentence if you like. Navarro is a convicted criminal who made up a fake expert - this is an indisputable and verifiable fact, so it can't be that particular point that triggers you. So, where is the supposed inaccuracy? Yeah, go on. Go through it sentence by sentence. White flag accepted   ;) Go buy another "gold" watch, Frannie. YOU offered, creep, don't chicken out now. Before one embarks on such a time-consuming endeavour with Frank, a poster renowned for wriggling out of anything they cannot counter with logic, reason or evidence, I'd advise you to set the terms, Greggy. If you're going to address each claim, insist he state in advance what source he would accept as proof that what you've said is true and not "fake news". If he once again fails to do that up front, then he's not engaging in good faith, and you can call it for what it is, the white flag of surrender.

Frank never, ever engages in good faith arguments.

How predictable was this?

Me: "Navarro is a convicted criminal - yes, or no?"

Frannie: "NO. He is not a criminal."

You can't reason with people like this.  Their TDS is just too overpowering.

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 3:44pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:40pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:39pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:38pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:36pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:33pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 10:51am: You may be wondering where Trump developed his love of tariffs and what he's based his tariff plans on. Well, watch this clip and you'll know. But make sure you're sitting down first, because it's shocking.... https://youtu.be/MJbZCbBLqkk?si=b0qRDV0Gj7rOTkvE This is 4 months old And who takes this bloke seriously??  Apart from woke TDS toddler. Which bit do you think is incorrect? We can go through it sentence by sentence if you like. Navarro is a convicted criminal who made up a fake expert - this is an indisputable and verifiable fact, so it can't be that particular point that triggers you. So, where is the supposed inaccuracy? Yeah, go on. Go through it sentence by sentence. White flag accepted   ;) Go buy another "gold" watch, Frannie. YOU offered, creep, don't chicken out now. Before one embarks on such a time-consuming endeavour with Frank, a poster renowned for wriggling out of anything they cannot counter with logic, reason or evidence, I'd advise you to set the terms, Greggy. If you're going to address each claim, insist he state in advance what source he would accept as proof that what you've said is true and not "fake news". If he once again fails to do that up front, then he's not engaging in good faith, and you can call it for what it is, the white flag of surrender.

Don't offer it if you are not actually prepared to do it.

I didn't ask for it, creep offered then chickened out and ran in the opposite direction.

Frank wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 4:03pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:44pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:40pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:39pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:38pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:36pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:33pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 10:51am: You may be wondering where Trump developed his love of tariffs and what he's based his tariff plans on. Well, watch this clip and you'll know. But make sure you're sitting down first, because it's shocking.... https://youtu.be/MJbZCbBLqkk?si=b0qRDV0Gj7rOTkvE This is 4 months old And who takes this bloke seriously??  Apart from woke TDS toddler. Which bit do you think is incorrect? We can go through it sentence by sentence if you like. Navarro is a convicted criminal who made up a fake expert - this is an indisputable and verifiable fact, so it can't be that particular point that triggers you. So, where is the supposed inaccuracy? Yeah, go on. Go through it sentence by sentence. White flag accepted   ;) Go buy another "gold" watch, Frannie. YOU offered, creep, don't chicken out now. Before one embarks on such a time-consuming endeavour with Frank, a poster renowned for wriggling out of anything they cannot counter with logic, reason or evidence, I'd advise you to set the terms, Greggy. If you're going to address each claim, insist he state in advance what source he would accept as proof that what you've said is true and not "fake news". If he once again fails to do that up front, then he's not engaging in good faith, and you can call it for what it is, the white flag of surrender. Don't offer it if you are not actually prepared to do it. I didn't ask for it, creep offered then chickened out and ran in the opposite direction.

Navarro is a convicted criminal.

Your inability to accept that indisputable fact shows that you can't engage in good faith arguments.

Go back to defending pedos and rapists, Frank - they're the people you love.  That's where your passion lies.

Frank wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 3:40pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:39pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:38pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:36pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:33pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 10:51am: You may be wondering where Trump developed his love of tariffs and what he's based his tariff plans on. Well, watch this clip and you'll know. But make sure you're sitting down first, because it's shocking.... https://youtu.be/MJbZCbBLqkk?si=b0qRDV0Gj7rOTkvE This is 4 months old And who takes this bloke seriously??  Apart from woke TDS toddler. Which bit do you think is incorrect? We can go through it sentence by sentence if you like. Navarro is a convicted criminal who made up a fake expert - this is an indisputable and verifiable fact, so it can't be that particular point that triggers you. So, where is the supposed inaccuracy? Yeah, go on. Go through it sentence by sentence. White flag accepted   ;) Go buy another "gold" watch, Frannie. YOU offered, creep, don't chicken out now.

I guess you’d know about chickening out, wouldn’t you, TACO-lover?

Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 4:07pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:40pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:39pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:38pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:36pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:33pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 10:51am: You may be wondering where Trump developed his love of tariffs and what he's based his tariff plans on. Well, watch this clip and you'll know. But make sure you're sitting down first, because it's shocking.... https://youtu.be/MJbZCbBLqkk?si=b0qRDV0Gj7rOTkvE This is 4 months old And who takes this bloke seriously??  Apart from woke TDS toddler. Which bit do you think is incorrect? We can go through it sentence by sentence if you like. Navarro is a convicted criminal who made up a fake expert - this is an indisputable and verifiable fact, so it can't be that particular point that triggers you. So, where is the supposed inaccuracy? Yeah, go on. Go through it sentence by sentence. White flag accepted   ;) Go buy another "gold" watch, Frannie. YOU offered, creep, don't chicken out now. I guess you’d know about chickening out, wouldn’t you, TACO-lover?

He chickened out of this challenge at the first hurdle.

TACO-loving, pedo-defending, rapist-apologist.  That's Frank.

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 4:10pm:

He chickened out of this challenge at the first hurdle. TACO-loving, pedo-defending, rapist-apologist.  That's Frank.

Well, he did admit Navarro was a convicted criminal, because he then went on to try to reframe it as "wrongful" or "political", instead of addressing whether it happened.

Typical goalpost change.

The question wasn't about his opinion of fairness, it was whether he is a convicted criminal. In legal terms, the answer is yes. He was found guilty in a court of law and sentenced.

Frank can cry "unjust" until he's blue in the face, but that doesn't erase the fact that Navarro is, by definition, a criminal. Pretending otherwise is pure denial.

Also on brand for Frank.

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 4:17pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 4:10pm: He chickened out of this challenge at the first hurdle. TACO-loving, pedo-defending, rapist-apologist.  That's Frank. Well, he did admit Navarro was a convicted criminal, because he then went on to try to reframe it as "wrongful" or "political", instead of addressing whether it happened. Typical goalpost change. The question wasn't about his opinion of fairness, it was whether he is a convicted criminal. In legal terms, the answer is yes. He was found guilty in a court of law and sentenced. Frank can cry "unjust" until he's blue in the face, but that doesn't erase the fact that Navarro is, by definition, a criminal. Pretending otherwise is pure denial. Also on brand for Frank.

Exactly.

He can argue all day that the conviction was unfair or politically motivated, or whatever - I have no problem with that.

However, that's not what I asked him.

Me: "Navarro is a convicted criminal - yes, or no?"

Frannie: "NO. He is not a criminal."

He's living in denial.

I hope he can one day get the help he needs.

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 4:17pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 4:10pm: He chickened out of this challenge at the first hurdle. TACO-loving, pedo-defending, rapist-apologist.  That's Frank. Well, he did admit Navarro was a convicted criminal, because he then went on to try to reframe it as "wrongful" or "political", instead of addressing whether it happened. Typical goalpost change. The question wasn't about his opinion of fairness, it was whether he is a convicted criminal. In legal terms, the answer is yes. He was found guilty in a court of law and sentenced. Frank can cry "unjust" until he's blue in the face, but that doesn't erase the fact that Navarro is, by definition, a criminal. Pretending otherwise is pure denial. Also on brand for Frank.

The Stalinist show trials took place in courts of law, too, woke TDS toddler.

Frank wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 4:48pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 4:17pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 4:10pm: He chickened out of this challenge at the first hurdle. TACO-loving, pedo-defending, rapist-apologist.  That's Frank. Well, he did admit Navarro was a convicted criminal, because he then went on to try to reframe it as "wrongful" or "political", instead of addressing whether it happened. Typical goalpost change. The question wasn't about his opinion of fairness, it was whether he is a convicted criminal. In legal terms, the answer is yes. He was found guilty in a court of law and sentenced. Frank can cry "unjust" until he's blue in the face, but that doesn't erase the fact that Navarro is, by definition, a criminal. Pretending otherwise is pure denial. Also on brand for Frank. The Stalinist show trials took place in courts of law, too, woke TDS toddler.

No need to fall back into your usual tirade of insults, Frank.

Navarro was explicitly ordered to testify and hand over documents concerning efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election, and he flat-out refused.

He made a conscious choice to defy the law.

The courts found him guilty on two counts of contempt.

You might dislike the fact that the orders came from the House Select Committee investigating the January 6 attack on the US Capitol, but that doesn't change his deliberate decision or the clear court ruling.

To claim this is all a political witch hunt demands an extraordinary level of denial, denial about the attempted insurrection, who orchestrated it, and what actually transpired that day.

Despite your incessant accusations of "TDS" or whatever, it's you who's living in that delusion, plainly and embarrassingly so.

Is there any point continuing with all the other elements of the story about the tariffs if you're already that detached?

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 5:07pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 4:48pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 4:17pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 4:10pm: He chickened out of this challenge at the first hurdle. TACO-loving, pedo-defending, rapist-apologist.  That's Frank. Well, he did admit Navarro was a convicted criminal, because he then went on to try to reframe it as "wrongful" or "political", instead of addressing whether it happened. Typical goalpost change. The question wasn't about his opinion of fairness, it was whether he is a convicted criminal. In legal terms, the answer is yes. He was found guilty in a court of law and sentenced. Frank can cry "unjust" until he's blue in the face, but that doesn't erase the fact that Navarro is, by definition, a criminal. Pretending otherwise is pure denial. Also on brand for Frank. The Stalinist show trials took place in courts of law, too, woke TDS toddler. No need to fall back into your usual tirade of insults, Frank. Navarro was explicitly ordered to testify and hand over documents concerning efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election, and he flat-out refused. He made a conscious choice to defy the law. The courts found him guilty on two counts of contempt. You might dislike the fact that the orders came from the House Select Committee investigating the January 6 attack on the US Capitol, but that doesn't change his deliberate decision or the clear court ruling. To claim this is all a political witch hunt demands an extraordinary level of denial, denial about the attempted insurrection, who orchestrated it, and what actually transpired that day. Despite your incessant accusations of "TDS" or whatever, it's you who's living in that delusion, plainly and embarrassingly so. Is there any point continuing with all the other elements of the story about the tariffs if you're already that detached?

That so?!?    :-?

Trump is still claiming other countries pay the tariffs not American's....Once inflation starts to rise Trump will blame everyone except himself....Why do MAGA believe such outright bullshit from Trump....Or do they just not care about the truth and ethics???

::) ::) ::)

philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 6:42pm:

Trump is still claiming other countries pay the tariffs not American's....Once inflation starts to rise Trump will blame everyone except himself....Why do MAGA believe such outright bullshit from Trump....Or do they just not care about the truth and ethics??? ::) ::) ::)

Tell us - why do countries worry if the US imposes tariffs on them if it's just a way to make Americans to pay more and nothing else...

Go on, tell.

Frank wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 6:47pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:42pm: Trump is still claiming other countries pay the tariffs not American's....Once inflation starts to rise Trump will blame everyone except himself....Why do MAGA believe such outright bullshit from Trump....Or do they just not care about the truth and ethics??? ::) ::) ::) Tell us - why do countries worry if the US imposes tariffs on them if it's just a way to make Americans to pay more and nothing else... Go on, tell.

Tariffs are paid by American companies Fwank....Companies can either opt not to buy overseas products, absorbe the added cost or pass the cost on to consumers....Either option raises uncertainty for importers and exporters....Do you believe other countries pay the tariffs Fwank???

:-? :-? :-?

philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 6:54pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:47pm: philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:42pm: Trump is still claiming other countries pay the tariffs not American's....Once inflation starts to rise Trump will blame everyone except himself....Why do MAGA believe such outright bullshit from Trump....Or do they just not care about the truth and ethics??? ::) ::) ::) Tell us - why do countries worry if the US imposes tariffs on them if it's just a way to make Americans to pay more and nothing else... Go on, tell. Tariffs are paid by American companies Fwank....Companies can either opt not to buy overseas products, absorbe the added cost or pass the cost on to consumers....Either option raises uncertainty for importers and exporters....Do you believe other countries pay the tariffs Fwank??? :-? :-? :-?

You need tariffs if you want to maintain working conditions.

I have a friend who has just started a clothing business and buys all his clothes in China because the working conditions for workers are not as robust as Australian working conditions. He has no interest in sourcing Australian manufactured goods due to the high cost of labor. Chinese factories don't have the same constraints so can offer far cheaper goods.

If tariffs were used to increase the cost of Chinese clothing to a level it would cost the wholesaler to buy in Australia then he would be willing to buy Australian manufactured goods. Basically putting the Australian workers on a even playing field and making the competition quality instead of price.

Leroy wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 7:33pm:

You need tariffs if you want to maintain working conditions. I have a friend who has just started a clothing business and buys all his clothes in China because the working conditions for workers are not as robust as Australian working conditions. He has no interest in sourcing Australian manufactured goods due to the high cost of labor. Chinese factories don't have the same constraints so can offer far cheaper goods. If tariffs were used to increase the cost of Chinese clothing to a level it would cost the wholesaler to buy in Australia then he would be willing to buy Australian manufactured goods. Basically putting the Australian workers on a even playing field and making the competition quality instead of price.

you socialist ::)

Leroy wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 7:33pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:54pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:47pm: philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:42pm: Trump is still claiming other countries pay the tariffs not American's....Once inflation starts to rise Trump will blame everyone except himself....Why do MAGA believe such outright bullshit from Trump....Or do they just not care about the truth and ethics??? ::) ::) ::) Tell us - why do countries worry if the US imposes tariffs on them if it's just a way to make Americans to pay more and nothing else... Go on, tell. Tariffs are paid by American companies Fwank....Companies can either opt not to buy overseas products, absorbe the added cost or pass the cost on to consumers....Either option raises uncertainty for importers and exporters....Do you believe other countries pay the tariffs Fwank??? :-? :-? :-? You need tariffs if you want to maintain working conditions. I have a friend ...

Yeah, nah.

You lost me there.

philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 6:54pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:47pm: philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:42pm: Trump is still claiming other countries pay the tariffs not American's....Once inflation starts to rise Trump will blame everyone except himself....Why do MAGA believe such outright bullshit from Trump....Or do they just not care about the truth and ethics??? ::) ::) ::) Tell us - why do countries worry if the US imposes tariffs on them if it's just a way to make Americans to pay more and nothing else... Go on, tell. Tariffs are paid by American companies Fwank....Companies can either opt not to buy overseas products, absorbe the added cost or pass the cost on to consumers....Either option raises uncertainty for importers and exporters....Do you believe other countries pay the tariffs Fwank??? :-? :-? :-?

There you go, you do know.

There is no tariffs on local products.

Buy your kids a job - buy Australian.

Frank wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 8:40pm:

There is no tariffs on local products.

Nice deflection but no one ever said there were  :D :D :D

Now, who pays for tariffs Frankie?

John Smith wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 8:44pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 8:40pm: There is no tariffs on local products. Nice deflection but no one ever said there were  :D :D :D Now, who pays for tariffs Frankie?

Those who buy highly tariffed imports, obviously.

Which worries cheating countries like China because their artificially lowered prices are evened up by tariffs so they lose their unfair, cheating advantage.

Buy local. Good for you, good for your kids, your country. No wonder you snarl about it, thicko.

Frank wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 8:50pm:

Those who buy highly tariffed imports, obviously.

Which, in the USA, is the American consumer

so why have you spent months pretending they don't?

John Smith wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 9:00pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 8:50pm: Those who buy highly tariffed imports, obviously. Which, in the USA, is the American consumer so why have you spent months pretending they don't?

Have I?  Why are you lying?

Oh, wait, I know. You can't do otherwise.


Anyway, it DOES cost countries lost sales, reduced production, reduced employment if their goods are not bought by one of their biggest markets or bought at a much reduced rate because of the increased cost due to tariffs.  That is why countries exporting to the US do not want tariffs imposed on them. It hurts them.

Anyway, tariffs were the main government revenue in most countries until the introduction of income tax.  You paid tariffs, tolls, customs dutie  at city gates, borders, bridges, etc.

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 4:00pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:44pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:40pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:39pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 3:38pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:36pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 2:33pm: Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 10:51am: You may be wondering where Trump developed his love of tariffs and what he's based his tariff plans on. Well, watch this clip and you'll know. But make sure you're sitting down first, because it's shocking.... https://youtu.be/MJbZCbBLqkk?si=b0qRDV0Gj7rOTkvE This is 4 months old And who takes this bloke seriously??  Apart from woke TDS toddler. Which bit do you think is incorrect? We can go through it sentence by sentence if you like. Navarro is a convicted criminal who made up a fake expert - this is an indisputable and verifiable fact, so it can't be that particular point that triggers you. So, where is the supposed inaccuracy? Yeah, go on. Go through it sentence by sentence. White flag accepted   ;) Go buy another "gold" watch, Frannie. YOU offered, creep, don't chicken out now. Before one embarks on such a time-consuming endeavour with Frank, a poster renowned for wriggling out of anything they cannot counter with logic, reason or evidence, I'd advise you to set the terms, Greggy. If you're going to address each claim, insist he state in advance what source he would accept as proof that what you've said is true and not "fake news". If he once again fails to do that up front, then he's not engaging in good faith, and you can call it for what it is, the white flag of surrender. Frank never, ever engages in good faith arguments. How predictable was this? Me: "Navarro is a convicted criminal - yes, or no?" Frannie: "NO. He is not a criminal." You can't reason with people like this.  Their TDS is just too overpowering.

I say, Greggery, that's a bit strange. Perhaps the old boy got it wrong.

You know, maybe he meant to say yes - you know, in support of his much-loved virtue of truth, Superior Culture, the rule of law, white Western values and lib...

Sorry, liber...

Oh, you know what I mean.

Shurely shome mishtake.

Frank wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 8:40pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:54pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:47pm: philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:42pm: Trump is still claiming other countries pay the tariffs not American's....Once inflation starts to rise Trump will blame everyone except himself....Why do MAGA believe such outright bullshit from Trump....Or do they just not care about the truth and ethics??? ::) ::) ::) Tell us - why do countries worry if the US imposes tariffs on them if it's just a way to make Americans to pay more and nothing else... Go on, tell. Tariffs are paid by American companies Fwank....Companies can either opt not to buy overseas products, absorbe the added cost or pass the cost on to consumers....Either option raises uncertainty for importers and exporters....Do you believe other countries pay the tariffs Fwank??? :-? :-? :-? There you go, you do know. There is no tariffs on local products. Buy your kids a job - buy Austalian.

Or Danish.

Either/or, no?

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 8:31pm:

Leroy wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 7:33pm: philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:54pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:47pm: philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:42pm: Trump is still claiming other countries pay the tariffs not American's....Once inflation starts to rise Trump will blame everyone except himself....Why do MAGA believe such outright bullshit from Trump....Or do they just not care about the truth and ethics??? ::) ::) ::) Tell us - why do countries worry if the US imposes tariffs on them if it's just a way to make Americans to pay more and nothing else... Go on, tell. Tariffs are paid by American companies Fwank....Companies can either opt not to buy overseas products, absorbe the added cost or pass the cost on to consumers....Either option raises uncertainty for importers and exporters....Do you believe other countries pay the tariffs Fwank??? :-? :-? :-? You need tariffs if you want to maintain working conditions. I have a friend ... Yeah, nah. You lost me there.

Yes I could see that being too much for you. 

Frank wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 8:40pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:54pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:47pm: philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:42pm: Trump is still claiming other countries pay the tariffs not American's....Once inflation starts to rise Trump will blame everyone except himself....Why do MAGA believe such outright bullshit from Trump....Or do they just not care about the truth and ethics??? ::) ::) ::) Tell us - why do countries worry if the US imposes tariffs on them if it's just a way to make Americans to pay more and nothing else... Go on, tell. Tariffs are paid by American companies Fwank....Companies can either opt not to buy overseas products, absorbe the added cost or pass the cost on to consumers....Either option raises uncertainty for importers and exporters....Do you believe other countries pay the tariffs Fwank??? :-? :-? :-? There you go, you do know. There is no tariffs on local products. Buy your kids a job - buy Australian.

There are no tariffs on local products that are made without any imported parts, technology or manufacturing processes, this is true, but there is very little in the US that is made without any tariffs in their supply chain.

Tariffs alone aren't bad, we've been through this all before, during the entire Trump campaign and you were warned then, as you're warned now, but you just don't listen.

You can't handle the fact that you've been lied to by Trump.

But that's yet another deflection attempt to move away from the topic of why Trump thinks these are a good idea, the criminal who suggested it, the lack of research that found him, and the lies he told in the book with made up statistics and people to justify it.

And this is guiding Trump's decisions on tariffs.

No wonder you want to deflect away from that.

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 12^th, 2025 at 7:23am:

Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 8:40pm: philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:54pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:47pm: philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:42pm: Trump is still claiming other countries pay the tariffs not American's....Once inflation starts to rise Trump will blame everyone except himself....Why do MAGA believe such outright bullshit from Trump....Or do they just not care about the truth and ethics??? ::) ::) ::) Tell us - why do countries worry if the US imposes tariffs on them if it's just a way to make Americans to pay more and nothing else... Go on, tell. Tariffs are paid by American companies Fwank....Companies can either opt not to buy overseas products, absorbe the added cost or pass the cost on to consumers....Either option raises uncertainty for importers and exporters....Do you believe other countries pay the tariffs Fwank??? :-? :-? :-? There you go, you do know. There is no tariffs on local products. Buy your kids a job - buy Australian. There are no tariffs on local products that are made without any imported parts, technology or manufacturing processes, this is true, but there is very little in the US that is made without any tariffs in their supply chain. Tariffs alone aren't bad, we've been through this all before, during the entire Trump campaign and you were warned then, as you're warned now, but you just don't listen. You can't handle the fact that you've been lied to by Trump. But that's yet another deflection attempt to move away from the topic of why Trump thinks these are a good idea, the criminal who suggested it, the lack of research that found him, and the lies he told in the book with made up statistics and people to justify it. And this is guiding Trump's decisions on tariffs. No wonder you want to deflect away from that.

Tell us, then, why do countries exporting to the US want lower or no tariffs if tariffs are all paid by american consumers and hurt american consumers but have no relevance for the exporting countries?

Why does it matter to Vietnam, China, Australia, EU that American consumerrs pay more for their goods?

Frank wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 8:40pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:54pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:47pm: philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:42pm: Trump is still claiming other countries pay the tariffs not American's....Once inflation starts to rise Trump will blame everyone except himself....Why do MAGA believe such outright bullshit from Trump....Or do they just not care about the truth and ethics??? ::) ::) ::) Tell us - why do countries worry if the US imposes tariffs on them if it's just a way to make Americans to pay more and nothing else... Go on, tell. Tariffs are paid by American companies Fwank....Companies can either opt not to buy overseas products, absorbe the added cost or pass the cost on to consumers....Either option raises uncertainty for importers and exporters....Do you believe other countries pay the tariffs Fwank??? :-? :-? :-? There you go, you do know. There is no tariffs on local products. Buy your kids a job - buy Australian.

It is very much possible for there to be tariffs on local products, or at least components of local products. Look at the auto industry. Even though that Chevrolet truck might be built in a factory in the United States, there is an extremely high likelihood that some of its components (e.g. LED lights or even metal used in the body of the vehicle itself) are imported into the U.S. and those components will attract a tariff. Now that car that used to cost $80k might cost $85k because of numerous components that had to be imported because no one makes them in America or not cheap enough to make it profitable to buy American-made components.

So yeah, it’s highly likely - basically a certainty - that local products will have some level of tariff involved in them.

Frank wrote on Aug 12^th, 2025 at 12:36pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 7:23am: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 8:40pm: philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:54pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:47pm: philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:42pm: Trump is still claiming other countries pay the tariffs not American's....Once inflation starts to rise Trump will blame everyone except himself....Why do MAGA believe such outright bullshit from Trump....Or do they just not care about the truth and ethics??? ::) ::) ::) Tell us - why do countries worry if the US imposes tariffs on them if it's just a way to make Americans to pay more and nothing else... Go on, tell. Tariffs are paid by American companies Fwank....Companies can either opt not to buy overseas products, absorbe the added cost or pass the cost on to consumers....Either option raises uncertainty for importers and exporters....Do you believe other countries pay the tariffs Fwank??? :-? :-? :-? There you go, you do know. There is no tariffs on local products. Buy your kids a job - buy Australian. There are no tariffs on local products that are made without any imported parts, technology or manufacturing processes, this is true, but there is very little in the US that is made without any tariffs in their supply chain. Tariffs alone aren't bad, we've been through this all before, during the entire Trump campaign and you were warned then, as you're warned now, but you just don't listen. You can't handle the fact that you've been lied to by Trump. But that's yet another deflection attempt to move away from the topic of why Trump thinks these are a good idea, the criminal who suggested it, the lack of research that found him, and the lies he told in the book with made up statistics and people to justify it. And this is guiding Trump's decisions on tariffs. No wonder you want to deflect away from that. Tell us, then, why do countries exporting to the US want lower or no tariffs if tariffs are all paid by american consumers and hurt american consumers but have no relevance for the exporting countries? Why does it matter to Vietnam, China, Australia, EU that American consumerrs pay more for their goods?

Are you suggesting they're not paid for by the American consumers?

Oh sorry, that's right, we're doing your mental health retreat.

Oh Frank, you're just brilliant. How could I ever have been so misguided as to think tariffs were anything but a masterstroke?

After all, making American consumers pay more is clearly a stroke of economic genius, it'll "encourage" them to buy American instead of imports. And by "encourage" I mean "leave them with no choice", even if there's no local equivalent, or only a dusty handful of goods left from before the tariffed prices bled their way through every supply chain.

It's actually cheaper this way, in the same way that eating one meal a day is "cheaper" than three. Who needs variety, right? Children only need one doll anyway, preferably one without legs or accessories.

And imagine if Trump had done the obviously wrong thing and waited, investing in local manufacturing first so that Americans had abundant, affordable, non-tariffed options before the price hikes kicked in. That would have been an absolute tragedy. Think of all those billions in extra taxes consumers wouldn't be paying, the billions Trump couldn't brag about.

No, Frank, he did the right thing, at the right time, in the right way. Sure, we're not getting those mythical $5k cheques anymore, but it's still better to pay more, because that's patriotic.

And you, you clever little prophet, you've been telling us this since the campaign. Always pushing for the best ideas, especially the ones that hit the MAGA base hardest. If Trump says it, it's good. End of story.

Truly, well done! Bravo! Standing ovation! 👏

_{/Frank's Mental Health Retreat.}

Come back to earth, unmored little gasbag.  It was a simple question even a woke toddler like you can readily understand.


Quote:

Why does it matter to Vietnam, China, Australia, EU that American consumers pay more for their goods?

When Australia had a car industry imported cars had hefty duties)tariffs on them. Most car sales were of Australian made units, with all the jobs and infrastructure and expertise that goes with it.
Tariffs were gradually lowered and the Australian automotive industry died. Now we don't even refine our own fuel.


Sweden (population 10 million) makes cars and trucks like Volvo, Saab, Scania IN Sweden that you can see on the roads across the world, including Australia.

Frank wrote on Aug 12^th, 2025 at 1:57pm:

Come back to earth, unmored little gasbag.  It was a simple question even a woke toddler like you can readily understand. Quote: Why does it matter to Vietnam, China, Australia, EU that American consumers pay more for their goods? When Australia had a car industry imported cars had hefty duties)tariffs on them. Most car sales were of Australian made units, with all the jobs and infrastructure and expertise that goes with it. Tariffs were gradually lowered and the Australian automotive industry died. Now we don't even refine our own fuel. Sweden (population 10 million) makes cars and trucks like Volvo, Saab, Scania IN Sweden that you can see on the roads across the world, including Australia.

What stupid questions.
Gissa 'nother.

Frank wrote on Aug 12^th, 2025 at 1:57pm:

Why does it matter to Vietnam, China, Australia, EU that American consumers pay more for their goods?

It doesn't.  They're just trying to exploit the USA, they deserve it.

We deserve it.

It's a really good thing Trump is doing, making his people pay more for everything, while increasing their taxes in the BBB.

He's pushing sustainability and ending the disposable economy.  People should only buy what they need, not what they want.  And Trump will tell them what they need.

Trump is leading the US to victory over its allies trade enemies and the victory will be glorious.

_{/Frank's Mental Health Retreat.}

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 12^th, 2025 at 4:33pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 1:57pm: Why does it matter to Vietnam, China, Australia, EU that American consumers pay more for their goods? It doesn't.  They're just trying to exploit the USA, they deserve it. We deserve it. It's a really good thing Trump is doing, making his people pay more for everything, while increasing their taxes in the BBB. He's pushing sustainability and ending the disposable economy.  People should only buy what they need, not what they want.  And Trump will tell them what they need. Trump is leading the US to victory over its allies trade enemies and the victory will be glorious. /Frank's Mental Health Retreat.

Yeah all his billionaire friends now don't have to pay tax on their tips and overtime.

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 3:59pm:

A massive stumble at the first hurdle... Wow.  Typical Frank.

frank stumbles getting out of bed ::)

Leroy wrote on Aug 12^th, 2025 at 5:37pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 4:33pm: Frank wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 1:57pm: Why does it matter to Vietnam, China, Australia, EU that American consumers pay more for their goods? It doesn't.  They're just trying to exploit the USA, they deserve it. We deserve it. It's a really good thing Trump is doing, making his people pay more for everything, while increasing their taxes in the BBB. He's pushing sustainability and ending the disposable economy.  People should only buy what they need, not what they want.  And Trump will tell them what they need. Trump is leading the US to victory over its allies trade enemies and the victory will be glorious. /Frank's Mental Health Retreat. Yeah all his billionaire friends now don't have to pay tax on their tips and overtime.

Is that so? Which people don't have to pay tax on tips and overtime, Leroy?

That's a question. If you refuse to answer, we'll be filing a report with Brian.

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 12^th, 2025 at 4:33pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 1:57pm: Why does it matter to Vietnam, China, Australia, EU that American consumers pay more for their goods? It doesn't.  They're just trying to exploit the USA, they deserve it. We deserve it. It's a really good thing Trump is doing, making his people pay more for everything, while increasing their taxes in the BBB. He's pushing sustainability and ending the disposable economy.  People should only buy what they need, not what they want.  And Trump will tell them what they need. Trump is leading the US to victory over its allies trade enemies and the victory will be glorious. /Frank's Mental Health Retreat.

Strange. Now where have we heard that before?

FD? You've been rather quiet of late.

Please explain?

Frank wrote on Aug 12^th, 2025 at 1:57pm:

Come back to earth, unmored little gasbag.  It was a simple question even a woke toddler like you can readily understand. Quote: Why does it matter to Vietnam, China, Australia, EU that American consumers pay more for their goods? When Australia had a car industry imported cars had hefty duties)tariffs on them. Most car sales were of Australian made units, with all the jobs and infrastructure and expertise that goes with it. Tariffs were gradually lowered and the Australian automotive industry died. Now we don't even refine our own fuel. Sweden (population 10 million) makes cars and trucks like Volvo, Saab, Scania IN Sweden that you can see on the roads across the world, including Australia.

Australian cars failed because japanese and Korean cars were much better.
Aust Govt gave lots of support money to aust car manufacturers so they could improve the product over time
Australian management failed to improve the product.
In essence Aust consumers were paying too much in extra taxes and tariffs  for an inferior product.

Aust cars failed because it should of failed.

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 12^th, 2025 at 1:31pm:

After all, making American consumers pay more is clearly a stroke of economic genius, it'll "encourage" them to buy American instead of imports. And by "encourage" I mean "leave them with no choice", even if there's no local equivalent, or only a dusty handful of goods left from before the tariffed prices bled their way through every supply chain. It's actually cheaper this way, in the same way that eating one meal a day is "cheaper" than three. Who needs variety, right? Children only need one doll anyway, preferably one without legs or accessories. And imagine if Trump had done the obviously wrong thing and waited, investing in local manufacturing first so that Americans had abundant, affordable, non-tariffed options before the price hikes kicked in. That would have been an absolute tragedy. Think of all those billions in extra taxes consumers wouldn't be paying, the billions Trump couldn't brag about.

You are talking absolute rot, again. Probably lying on purpose for rhetorical purposes, playing to the gallery of equally retarded woke toddlers. Nobody is as stupid as to not know that [b]tariffs are NOT boycotts,[/b]. A tariff does not mean that the product is no longer available as before. Tariff do not make supply any slower. No 'bleeding through'.

Trump is NOT doing what China did to Australia (great, trustworthy free trade partner that it is...) when it BLOCKED Australian products from the Chinese market.

Frank wrote on Aug 13^th, 2025 at 9:46am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 1:31pm: After all, making American consumers pay more is clearly a stroke of economic genius, it'll "encourage" them to buy American instead of imports. And by "encourage" I mean "leave them with no choice", even if there's no local equivalent, or only a dusty handful of goods left from before the tariffed prices bled their way through every supply chain. It's actually cheaper this way, in the same way that eating one meal a day is "cheaper" than three. Who needs variety, right? Children only need one doll anyway, preferably one without legs or accessories. And imagine if Trump had done the obviously wrong thing and waited, investing in local manufacturing first so that Americans had abundant, affordable, non-tariffed options before the price hikes kicked in. That would have been an absolute tragedy. Think of all those billions in extra taxes consumers wouldn't be paying, the billions Trump couldn't brag about. You are talking absolute rot, again. Probably lying on purpose for rhetorical purposes, playing to the gallery of equally retarded woke toddlers. Nobody is as stupid as to not know that [b]tariffs are NOT boycotts,[/b]. A tariff does not mean that the product is no longer available as before. Tariff do not make supply any slower. No 'bleeding through'. Trump is NOT doing what China did to Australia (great, trustworthy free trade partner that it is...) when it BLOCKED Australian products from the Chinese market.

Your TDS has made you as nutty as squirrel shite, pal.

Frank wrote on Aug 13^th, 2025 at 9:46am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 1:31pm: After all, making American consumers pay more is clearly a stroke of economic genius, it'll "encourage" them to buy American instead of imports. And by "encourage" I mean "leave them with no choice", even if there's no local equivalent, or only a dusty handful of goods left from before the tariffed prices bled their way through every supply chain. It's actually cheaper this way, in the same way that eating one meal a day is "cheaper" than three. Who needs variety, right? Children only need one doll anyway, preferably one without legs or accessories. And imagine if Trump had done the obviously wrong thing and waited, investing in local manufacturing first so that Americans had abundant, affordable, non-tariffed options before the price hikes kicked in. That would have been an absolute tragedy. Think of all those billions in extra taxes consumers wouldn't be paying, the billions Trump couldn't brag about. You are talking absolute rot, again. Probably lying on purpose for rhetorical purposes, playing to the gallery of equally retarded woke toddlers. Nobody is as stupid as to not know that [b]tariffs are NOT boycotts,[/b]. A tariff does not mean that the product is no longer available as before. Tariff do not make supply any slower. No 'bleeding through'. Trump is NOT doing what China did to Australia (great, trustworthy free trade partner that it is...) when it BLOCKED Australian products from the Chinese market.

You dumb ass, that's the version of my post singing from your song sheet, you know, for your mental health retreat.

And you're still triggered by it.  WTF mate...

Seems like you just want to argue with me, even if I agree...  Rent free innit...

Oh right, my bad again:

^{<Frank's Mental Health Retreat>}

Of course tarrifs aint boycotts, they Trumps big win plan. He make imports cost more, yeah price go up for american people but its other countrys payin not us.

Them prices just prove how much more them other countrys payin.

Americans can just buy local stuff no tarrifs on that. Everythin made in USA so we good.

Local factorys dont gotta worry bout tarrifs on they supply chain either cause other countrys pay it.

Its the art of the deal, Trump makin billons for america from tarrifs other countrys paid. That money helpin people thru ICE an cuttin all the junk we dont need.

Its perfect system gonna make more wallmarts open so more stuff, more jobs, econmy go up unless biden messed with it with more plants spewing fake numbers!

I aint tired of winnin yet this is awsome!

_{</Frank's Mental Health Retreat>}

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 13^th, 2025 at 10:48am:

Frank wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 9:46am: SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 1:31pm: After all, making American consumers pay more is clearly a stroke of economic genius, it'll "encourage" them to buy American instead of imports. And by "encourage" I mean "leave them with no choice", even if there's no local equivalent, or only a dusty handful of goods left from before the tariffed prices bled their way through every supply chain. It's actually cheaper this way, in the same way that eating one meal a day is "cheaper" than three. Who needs variety, right? Children only need one doll anyway, preferably one without legs or accessories. And imagine if Trump had done the obviously wrong thing and waited, investing in local manufacturing first so that Americans had abundant, affordable, non-tariffed options before the price hikes kicked in. That would have been an absolute tragedy. Think of all those billions in extra taxes consumers wouldn't be paying, the billions Trump couldn't brag about. You are talking absolute rot, again. Probably lying on purpose for rhetorical purposes, playing to the gallery of equally retarded woke toddlers. Nobody is as stupid as to not know that [b]tariffs are NOT boycotts,[/b]. A tariff does not mean that the product is no longer available as before. Tariff do not make supply any slower. No 'bleeding through'. Trump is NOT doing what China did to Australia (great, trustworthy free trade partner that it is...) when it BLOCKED Australian products from the Chinese market. You dumb ass, that's the version of my post singing from your song sheet, you know, for your mental health retreat.

:D :D :D
Yeah, right....


You are crap at that too. You do not understand what others say, only what you want them to have said and then you imitate and or argue with your own cack handed misunderstandings.

At length. AT GREAT LENGTH.

Frank wrote on Aug 13^th, 2025 at 11:16am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 10:48am: Frank wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 9:46am: SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 1:31pm: After all, making American consumers pay more is clearly a stroke of economic genius, it'll "encourage" them to buy American instead of imports. And by "encourage" I mean "leave them with no choice", even if there's no local equivalent, or only a dusty handful of goods left from before the tariffed prices bled their way through every supply chain. It's actually cheaper this way, in the same way that eating one meal a day is "cheaper" than three. Who needs variety, right? Children only need one doll anyway, preferably one without legs or accessories. And imagine if Trump had done the obviously wrong thing and waited, investing in local manufacturing first so that Americans had abundant, affordable, non-tariffed options before the price hikes kicked in. That would have been an absolute tragedy. Think of all those billions in extra taxes consumers wouldn't be paying, the billions Trump couldn't brag about. You are talking absolute rot, again. Probably lying on purpose for rhetorical purposes, playing to the gallery of equally retarded woke toddlers. Nobody is as stupid as to not know that [b]tariffs are NOT boycotts,[/b]. A tariff does not mean that the product is no longer available as before. Tariff do not make supply any slower. No 'bleeding through'. Trump is NOT doing what China did to Australia (great, trustworthy free trade partner that it is...) when it BLOCKED Australian products from the Chinese market. You dumb ass, that's the version of my post singing from your song sheet, you know, for your mental health retreat. :D :D :D Yeah, right.... You are crap at that too. You do not understand what others say, only what you want them to have said and then you imitate and or argue with your own cack handed misunderstandings. At length. AT GREAT LENGTH.

By the way, what I said, even though it's been twisted to give you a break because you're acting like a perpetually triggered toddler, was dead on.

Trump's tariffs are blanket, indiscriminate sledgehammers. They're not designed to help struggling local industries. In most cases, there aren't even locally manufactured alternatives, and where there are, those supply chains are still hit with tariffs.

It's the only "king-like" power he wields without needing congressional approval, which, even with his party controlling both chambers, he seems too gutless to pursue.

So now he's trying to wield tariffs like some sort of magic fix for every problem, shamelessly taking credit for anything remotely positive, and sacking anyone who dares expose, even with cold, hard facts, the catastrophic fallout of his policies.

Look, tariffs do have a place. They can prop up faltering industries or help nurture new ones, provided there's actual government backing.

But Trump? He's doing none of that. No targeted tariffs, no meaningful support, just a reckless tax on everything, making prices skyrocket and lying about who pays it.

We're even seeing Walmart shutter stores in low-income areas because people simply can't afford to buy enough to keep them afloat.

That's more jobs lost, more smoke-and-mirrors number fiddling that will be needed to hide it over at BLS now Trump got rid of those telling the truth.

And that's just scratching the surface. Take Vegas tourism plummeting or Ford's 64% dive in net income in Q1 2025.

Everywhere you look, it's going pear-shaped.

And it's overwhelmingly because of these tariffs.

I know it's a bit off-topic since we're discussing where Trump got this moronic idea, but it sure as hell underlines how utterly stupid it is, to anyone not blindly wearing a red hat, at least.

Oh and blah blah blah _{Frank's Mental Health Retreat}, I feel like it's not necessary with this post, nor can I be buggered, you're just going to make your own reality and ignore what I've said anyway. 

Just create your own safe space like you normally do.

What am I this time, a gasious waffling teapot again?

Anything to run and hide from the truth huh...

The purpose of these tarrifs is manifold.

The primary reason, in my view, is that the US is the brokest country in history. Like mosf of the West, if has outsourced its industrial production to China and the third world. It sucks in so much imported stuff that it now has a catastrophic trade balance and unpreceented debt. Just servicing the debt intrest - NOT PAYING OFF ANY PRINCIPAL - costs more annually than the defence or the health budget. This is simply unsustainable.
If the US dollar lost its status as the world currency the US would go the way of Britain after WWII, only much faster. Britain had no powerful enemies, the US does. It would be catastrophic for the world if the US lost its position in a rapid collapse of its finances.

So how do you stop China and the third world taking advantage of US and Western economic openness that China and the third world do not reciprocate? How do you correct the trade balance with conntrues that do hinder reciprocity?


LaKeisha paying more for socks and toasters at the local CrappyMart is the least of it ( many over them just pinch stuff anyway).

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 13^th, 2025 at 12:01pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 11:16am: SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 10:48am: Frank wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 9:46am: SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 1:31pm: After all, making American consumers pay more is clearly a stroke of economic genius, it'll "encourage" them to buy American instead of imports. And by "encourage" I mean "leave them with no choice", even if there's no local equivalent, or only a dusty handful of goods left from before the tariffed prices bled their way through every supply chain. It's actually cheaper this way, in the same way that eating one meal a day is "cheaper" than three. Who needs variety, right? Children only need one doll anyway, preferably one without legs or accessories. And imagine if Trump had done the obviously wrong thing and waited, investing in local manufacturing first so that Americans had abundant, affordable, non-tariffed options before the price hikes kicked in. That would have been an absolute tragedy. Think of all those billions in extra taxes consumers wouldn't be paying, the billions Trump couldn't brag about. You are talking absolute rot, again. Probably lying on purpose for rhetorical purposes, playing to the gallery of equally retarded woke toddlers. Nobody is as stupid as to not know that [b]tariffs are NOT boycotts,[/b]. A tariff does not mean that the product is no longer available as before. Tariff do not make supply any slower. No 'bleeding through'. Trump is NOT doing what China did to Australia (great, trustworthy free trade partner that it is...) when it BLOCKED Australian products from the Chinese market. You dumb ass, that's the version of my post singing from your song sheet, you know, for your mental health retreat. :D :D :D Yeah, right.... You are crap at that too. You do not understand what others say, only what you want them to have said and then you imitate and or argue with your own cack handed misunderstandings. At length. AT GREAT LENGTH. By the way, what I said, even though it's been twisted to give you a break because you're acting like a perpetually triggered toddler, was dead on. Trump's tariffs are blanket, indiscriminate sledgehammers. They're not designed to help struggling local industries. In most cases, there aren't even locally manufactured alternatives, and where there are, those supply chains are still hit with tariffs. It's the only "king-like" power he wields without needing congressional approval, which, even with his party controlling both chambers, he seems too gutless to pursue. So now he's trying to wield tariffs like some sort of magic fix for every problem, shamelessly taking credit for anything remotely positive, and sacking anyone who dares expose, even with cold, hard facts, the catastrophic fallout of his policies. Look, tariffs do have a place. They can prop up faltering industries or help nurture new ones, provided there's actual government backing. But Trump? He's doing none of that. No targeted tariffs, no meaningful support, just a reckless tax on everything, making prices skyrocket and lying about who pays it. We're even seeing Walmart shutter stores in low-income areas because people simply can't afford to buy enough to keep them afloat. That's more jobs lost, more smoke-and-mirrors number fiddling that will be needed to hide it over at BLS now Trump got rid of those telling the truth. And that's just scratching the surface. Take Vegas tourism plummeting or Ford's 64% dive in net income in Q1 2025. Everywhere you look, it's going pear-shaped. And it's overwhelmingly because of these tariffs. I know it's a bit off-topic since we're discussing where Trump got this moronic idea, but it sure as hell underlines how utterly stupid it is, to anyone not blindly wearing a red hat, at least. Oh and blah blah blah Frank's Mental Health Retreat, I feel like it's not necessary with this post, nor can I be buggered, you're just going to make your own reality and ignore what I've said anyway.  Just create your own safe space like you normally do. What am I this time, a gasious waffling teapot again? Anything to run and hide from the truth huh...

Excellent post.

Frank wrote on Aug 13^th, 2025 at 12:44pm:

The purpose of these tarrifs is manifold. The primary reason, in my view, is that the US is the brokest country in history. Like mosf of the West, if has outsourced its industrial production to China and the third world. It sucks in so much imported stuff that it now has a catastrophic trade balance and unpreceented debt. Just servicing the debt intrest - NOT PAYING OFF ANY PRINCIPAL - costs more annually than the defence or the health budget. This is simply unsustainable. If the US dollar lost its status as the world currency the US would go the way of Britain after WWII, only much faster. Britain had no powerful enemies, the US does. It would be catastrophic for the world if the US lost its position in a rapid collapse of its finances. So how do you stop China and the third world taking advantage of US and Western economic openness that China and the third world do not reciprocate? How do you correct the trade balance with conntrues that do hinder reciprocity? LaKeisha paying more for socks and toasters at the local CrappyMart is the least of it ( many over them just pinch stuff anyway).

What if Trump's tariffs, deportations, tax increases, cutting of peoples access to healthcare and the hude DOGE layoffs, with their combined constant upward pressure on inflation, the tightening of supply in products, food, and housing creating scarcity-driven price hikes, and the chilling effect on business confidence strangling productivity and investment, combine with the collapse of trust in any economic figures coming out of the White House, what if all that crashes the US economy before these so-called "victories" against China even materialise?

What if the rest of the world simply moves on without the US, recalibrating trade and alliances while America wallows in its self-inflicted wounds?

What then, a kinetic war to retake resources?

What if the repeated, casual disrespect shown to Japan pushes them to dump US bonds, triggering financial shockwaves Washington isn't remotely prepared for?

There is only so much the US, from the people to the economy, can absorb.  You're taking an awfully big gamble that they can outlast China, especially when making enemies out of every other trading partner.

You're fixated on the endgame you've been spoon-fed, the promise that tariffs will somehow deliver a masterstroke, so blinkered that you either can't see, or won't admit, the gaping risks in Trump's approach.

And worse, you're not just excusing but actively cheering on the deliberate lies, like the ones around the BLS, that are being peddled to keep Trump's support base ignorant, celebrating the very pain they're feeling, or dutifully blaming Biden or Obama instead.

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 13^th, 2025 at 1:44pm:

What if the rest of the world simply moves on without the US, recalibrating trade and alliances while America wallows in its self-inflicted wounds?

THAT is the most likely scenario... and if that happens, that is what will most likely cause the US to lose it's status as the worlds top currency. The rest of the world isn't going to sit by and let trump derail global trading.

In a post on Truth Social, Trump posted a video in which Navarro explained how people such as Alexander Hamilton and Henry Clay have advocated for tariffs throughout the history of the United States. Navarro noted how Hamilton believed that the U.S. “needed tariffs to defend its young industries from British domination.”

“April 2, 2025, will forever be remembered as the day American industry was reborn, the day America’s destiny was reclaimed, and the day that we began to make America wealthy again,” Trump says at the beginning of the video.

Navarro then begins to explain that Trump “imposed tariffs on countries around the world.  Trumpnomics’ goal is not only to reduce America’s trade deficit, it is to defend American workers and factories against unfair trade practices, while encouraging trillions of dollars in investment in new American plant and equipment,” Navarro says. “The policy is working for America, and no one should be surprised by this.”

“This is because before the tariff became synonymous with President Donald Trump, generations of American statesmen built the foundation for today’s America First agenda,” Navarro continued. “Their ideas were rooted in three core principles: sovereignty, security, and the protection of American workers. Economic nationalism, also known as economic populism, isn’t new. It’s a return to the proven economic model that built the greatest industrial power in world history.”

Navarro continued to explain how Alexander Hamilton was the “original architect of American economic nationalism.  In his report on manufacturers, Hamilton laid it out clearly,” Navarro continued. “United States needed tariffs to defend its young industries from British domination, and to secure true independence — not just politically, but economically. Hamilton knew that if America relied on foreign powers for manufactured goods, it would always be vulnerable.”

“Decades later, Henry Clay carried Hamilton’s vision forward,” Navarro continued. “His American system prioritized three things: a strong national bank, major infrastructure investment, and above all, protective tariffs. Clay said it best in 1824, ‘The tariff is to tax the produce of foreign industry with the view of promoting American industry.'”

“It’s the same logic President Trump used nearly 200 years later when he invoked Section 232 to impose tariffs on steel and aluminum to stop foreign overproduction and dumping from crushing American jobs,” Navarro continued.

Navarro continued on to explain how former President Abraham Lincoln “understood the value of tariffs. During the Civil War, tariff revenues helped finance the Union army, and after the war, they fueled a rapid industrial expansion,” Navarro continued. “Lincoln knew that protecting American industry meant protecting American workers and protecting the American nation itself.”

Navarro continued to point out that “the fake news wants us to believe these are fringe ideas,” adding that history teaches us that they are “the American tradition.  President Trump’s trade agenda, especially his bold use of tariffs, draws along this long line of economic nationalism,” Navarro said. “From Hamilton to Clay, from Lincoln to McKinley, and now President Donald John Trump, the core idea has remained the same. Put American workers first, build American industry, protect American sovereignty. This is the heart of the America First agenda. It’s not new, it’s certainly not radical. It’s the most American economic policy in history. Five leaders, one philosophy, make tariffs great again, make America great again.”

Frank wrote on Aug 12^th, 2025 at 1:57pm:

Come back to earth, unmored little gasbag.  It was a simple question even a woke toddler like you can readily understand. Quote: Why does it matter to Vietnam, China, Australia, EU that American consumers pay more for their goods? When Australia had a car industry imported cars had hefty duties)tariffs on them. Most car sales were of Australian made units, with all the jobs and infrastructure and expertise that goes with it. Tariffs were gradually lowered and the Australian automotive industry died. Now we don't even refine our own fuel. Sweden (population 10 million) makes cars and trucks like Volvo, Saab, Scania IN Sweden that you can see on the roads across the world, including Australia.

We actually do refine our own fuel. Not a huge amount, but we do and have two oil refineries. By the way, I see you completely ducked what I said about you being wrong on local products being tariffed.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 13^th, 2025 at 4:17pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 1:57pm: Come back to earth, unmored little gasbag.  It was a simple question even a woke toddler like you can readily understand. Quote: Why does it matter to Vietnam, China, Australia, EU that American consumers pay more for their goods? When Australia had a car industry imported cars had hefty duties)tariffs on them. Most car sales were of Australian made units, with all the jobs and infrastructure and expertise that goes with it. Tariffs were gradually lowered and the Australian automotive industry died. Now we don't even refine our own fuel. Sweden (population 10 million) makes cars and trucks like Volvo, Saab, Scania IN Sweden that you can see on the roads across the world, including Australia. We actually do refine our own fuel. Not a huge amount, but we do and have two oil refineries. By the way, I see you completely ducked what I said about you being wrong on local products being tariffed.

Sorry.

It is hard to keep up with ALL the woke toddlers here.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 12^th, 2025 at 1:09pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 8:40pm: philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:54pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:47pm: philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:42pm: Trump is still claiming other countries pay the tariffs not American's....Once inflation starts to rise Trump will blame everyone except himself....Why do MAGA believe such outright bullshit from Trump....Or do they just not care about the truth and ethics??? ::) ::) ::) Tell us - why do countries worry if the US imposes tariffs on them if it's just a way to make Americans to pay more and nothing else... Go on, tell. Tariffs are paid by American companies Fwank....Companies can either opt not to buy overseas products, absorbe the added cost or pass the cost on to consumers....Either option raises uncertainty for importers and exporters....Do you believe other countries pay the tariffs Fwank??? :-? :-? :-? There you go, you do know. There is no tariffs on local products. Buy your kids a job - buy Australian. It is very much possible for there to be tariffs on local products, or at least components of local products. Look at the auto industry. Even though that Chevrolet truck might be built in a factory in the United States, there is an extremely high likelihood that some of its components (e.g. LED lights or even metal used in the body of the vehicle itself) are imported into the U.S. and those components will attract a tariff. Now that car that used to cost $80k might cost $85k because of numerous components that had to be imported because no one makes them in America or not cheap enough to make it profitable to buy American-made components. So yeah, it’s highly likely - basically a certainty - that local products will have some level of tariff involved in them.

And when it becomes competitive again for a local producer to make the gizmo, it will. No tariff.
Local jobs.

So even if the locally made gizmo costs exactly the same as the tariffed import, you have shortened the supply chain and created, crucially, a few local jobs. Which means employment instead of welfare, local expertise and skill retained, local R&D into better gizmo techniques, no dependence on potentially hostile foreign gizmo makers, beted trade balance.


Buy local, buy your kids a job.

Smart. Beneficial. What's not to like?

Frank wrote on Aug 13^th, 2025 at 4:08pm:

Put American workers first, build American industry, protect American sovereignty. This is the heart of the America First agenda. It’s not new, it’s certainly not radical. It’s the most American economic policy in history. Five leaders, one philosophy, make tariffs great again, make America great again.”

Breitbart, what a flapping joke.

It's what Navarro leaves out (or distorts) that's what is important.

In the 18th and 19th centuries, tariffs were one of the few ways to raise federal revenue. The US was a developing, industrialising nation competing with established powers. Today, the US is a mature, service-heavy economy with complex global supply chains.

Historically, high tariffs often provoked trade retaliation, raised consumer prices, and sometimes harmed the very industries they were meant to protect (eg, the Smoot–Hawley Tariff of 1930 worsened the Great Depression). Navarro ignores these downsides.

Hamilton and Clay's tariffs were targeted in a far smaller, less interconnected economy. Trump's tariffs are broad, global, and hit US allies as well as rivals, which has disrupted supply chains and raised costs for US manufacturers.  Basically, what I said here.

There's little hard evidence that Trump's tariffs in 2018–2020 significantly boosted US manufacturing in the long run. Some industries saw short-term gains, but many more faced higher input costs and lost export markets.

But as seems on trend for you Frank, as long as someone tells you what you want to hear, reinforcing what you already believe, the research stops there.

Copy and paste here, then insult or ignore those who looked at both sides of the coin.

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 13^th, 2025 at 4:36pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 4:08pm: Put American workers first, build American industry, protect American sovereignty. This is the heart of the America First agenda. It’s not new, it’s certainly not radical. It’s the most American economic policy in history. Five leaders, one philosophy, make tariffs great again, make America great again.” Breitbart, what a flapping joke.

No, eejit, Navarro.

Frank wrote on Aug 13^th, 2025 at 4:40pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 4:36pm: Frank wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 4:08pm: Put American workers first, build American industry, protect American sovereignty. This is the heart of the America First agenda. It’s not new, it’s certainly not radical. It’s the most American economic policy in history. Five leaders, one philosophy, make tariffs great again, make America great again.” Breitbart, what a flapping joke. No, eejit, Navarro.

Which was addressed in the next line of the post your ran away from...


SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 13^th, 2025 at 4:36pm:

Copy and paste here, then insult or ignore those who looked at both sides of the coin.

You're too predictable.

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 13^th, 2025 at 5:07pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 4:40pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 4:36pm: Frank wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 4:08pm: Put American workers first, build American industry, protect American sovereignty. This is the heart of the America First agenda. It’s not new, it’s certainly not radical. It’s the most American economic policy in history. Five leaders, one philosophy, make tariffs great again, make America great again.” Breitbart, what a flapping joke. No, eejit, Navarro. Which was addressed in the next line of the post your ran away from... SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 4:36pm: Copy and paste here, then insult or ignore those who looked at both sides of the coin. You're too predictable.

So what exactly was the point of the Breitbaŕ sneer? To up your word count, gawdelpus?

Frank wrote on Aug 13^th, 2025 at 5:24pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 5:07pm: Frank wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 4:40pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 4:36pm: Frank wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 4:08pm: Put American workers first, build American industry, protect American sovereignty. This is the heart of the America First agenda. It’s not new, it’s certainly not radical. It’s the most American economic policy in history. Five leaders, one philosophy, make tariffs great again, make America great again.” Breitbart, what a flapping joke. No, eejit, Navarro. Which was addressed in the next line of the post your ran away from... SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 4:36pm: Copy and paste here, then insult or ignore those who looked at both sides of the coin. You're too predictable. So what exactly was the point of the Breitbaŕ sneer? To up your word count, gawdelpus?

Keep dodging and insulting...  That's all you've got left.

As for Breitbart, it's hardly what any reasonable person would call a reliable news source. It's steeped in ideological bias, has a documented record of misinformation, and an equally long tradition of omission and deceptive framing, as I demonstrated with what you posted, which you're conveniently ignoring.

It exists to feed a highly partisan audience, pandering to those who already share its political stance, not by delivering balanced, factual journalism, but through the very manipulative tactics I've just outlined.

Which, of course, is precisely why you treat it as gospel and then bristle at the "sneer" you claim to detect.

So, are you going to continue pretending the inconvenient facts they left out don't exist, or will you step into reality with the rest of us?

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 13^th, 2025 at 4:36pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 4:08pm: Put American workers first, build American industry, protect American sovereignty. This is the heart of the America First agenda. It’s not new, it’s certainly not radical. It’s the most American economic policy in history. Five leaders, one philosophy, make tariffs great again, make America great again.” Breitbart, what a flapping joke. It's what Navarro leaves out (or distorts) that's what is important. In the 18th and 19th centuries, tariffs were one of the few ways to raise federal revenue. The US was a developing, industrialising nation competing with established powers. Today, the US is a mature, service-heavy economy with complex global supply chains. Historically, high tariffs often provoked trade retaliation, raised consumer prices, and sometimes harmed the very industries they were meant to protect (eg, the Smoot–Hawley Tariff of 1930 worsened the Great Depression). Navarro ignores these downsides. Hamilton and Clay's tariffs were targeted in a far smaller, less interconnected economy. Trump's tariffs are broad, global, and hit US allies as well as rivals, which has disrupted supply chains and raised costs for US manufacturers.  Basically, what I said here. There's little hard evidence that Trump's tariffs in 2018–2020 significantly boosted US manufacturing in the long run. Some industries saw short-term gains, but many more faced higher input costs and lost export markets. But as seems on trend for you Frank, as long as someone tells you what you want to hear, reinforcing what you already believe, the research stops there. Copy and paste here, then insult or ignore those who looked at both sides of the coin.

Long on assertions, short on evidence - even though you think you are a champion of evidence based intellectual arguments.
You are not. you are just repeating your own biased views amplified by eotional hyperbole.

We are not in the Great depression. We aren't even in 2018. Certainly not the 18-19th centuries.

Now tariffs are a mechanism to renegotiate trade deals. Which is happening. Which you ignore.

Frank wrote on Aug 13^th, 2025 at 4:28pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 1:09pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 8:40pm: philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:54pm: Frank wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:47pm: philperth2010 wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 6:42pm: Trump is still claiming other countries pay the tariffs not American's....Once inflation starts to rise Trump will blame everyone except himself....Why do MAGA believe such outright bullshit from Trump....Or do they just not care about the truth and ethics??? ::) ::) ::) Tell us - why do countries worry if the US imposes tariffs on them if it's just a way to make Americans to pay more and nothing else... Go on, tell. Tariffs are paid by American companies Fwank....Companies can either opt not to buy overseas products, absorbe the added cost or pass the cost on to consumers....Either option raises uncertainty for importers and exporters....Do you believe other countries pay the tariffs Fwank??? :-? :-? :-? There you go, you do know. There is no tariffs on local products. Buy your kids a job - buy Australian. It is very much possible for there to be tariffs on local products, or at least components of local products. Look at the auto industry. Even though that Chevrolet truck might be built in a factory in the United States, there is an extremely high likelihood that some of its components (e.g. LED lights or even metal used in the body of the vehicle itself) are imported into the U.S. and those components will attract a tariff. Now that car that used to cost $80k might cost $85k because of numerous components that had to be imported because no one makes them in America or not cheap enough to make it profitable to buy American-made components. So yeah, it’s highly likely - basically a certainty - that local products will have some level of tariff involved in them. And when it becomes competitive again for a local producer to make the gizmo, it will. No tariff. Local jobs. So even if the locally made gizmo costs exactly the same as the tariffed import, you have shortened the supply chain and created, crucially, a few local jobs. Which means employment instead of welfare, local expertise and skill retained, local R&D into better gizmo techniques, no dependence on potentially hostile foreign gizmo makers, beted trade balance. Buy local, buy your kids a job. Smart. Beneficial. What's not to like?

Is that so? So whatabout all those imported goods you can't get in America?

Champagne, delish coffee, Danish cheese?

DL hasn't stuck tariffs on manufactured goods, you redeculous old thing, he's whacked them on countries.

Why would any manufacturer pack up shop and move to America, when in three years time, your DL will be gone?

If Aussie manufacturers did what your DL says, we'd be out of jobs. Countries like Chi-na are pressuring them to stay right where they are. No Chow CEO wants the inevitable knock on the door in the middle of the night, not after all the fun Xi's been having with them. India's following suit, and the rest of the world plan to wait your DL out, just like jolly old Oz.

Far easier to do deals elsewhere and ride him out than to spend five years chasing up capital, building approvals and environmental impact statements, building a new ballbearing plant in Cleveland Ohio, only to arrive and find out - hang on, where's all the workers?

Oh, they're all gone now. DL deported them for eating our cats and dogs.

Smart, beneficial, what's not to like?

Frank wrote on Aug 13^th, 2025 at 6:33pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 4:36pm: Frank wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 4:08pm: Put American workers first, build American industry, protect American sovereignty. This is the heart of the America First agenda. It’s not new, it’s certainly not radical. It’s the most American economic policy in history. Five leaders, one philosophy, make tariffs great again, make America great again.” Breitbart, what a flapping joke. It's what Navarro leaves out (or distorts) that's what is important. In the 18th and 19th centuries, tariffs were one of the few ways to raise federal revenue. The US was a developing, industrialising nation competing with established powers. Today, the US is a mature, service-heavy economy with complex global supply chains. Historically, high tariffs often provoked trade retaliation, raised consumer prices, and sometimes harmed the very industries they were meant to protect (eg, the Smoot–Hawley Tariff of 1930 worsened the Great Depression). Navarro ignores these downsides. Hamilton and Clay's tariffs were targeted in a far smaller, less interconnected economy. Trump's tariffs are broad, global, and hit US allies as well as rivals, which has disrupted supply chains and raised costs for US manufacturers.  Basically, what I said here. There's little hard evidence that Trump's tariffs in 2018–2020 significantly boosted US manufacturing in the long run. Some industries saw short-term gains, but many more faced higher input costs and lost export markets. But as seems on trend for you Frank, as long as someone tells you what you want to hear, reinforcing what you already believe, the research stops there. Copy and paste here, then insult or ignore those who looked at both sides of the coin. Long on assertions, shot on evidence - even though you gthink you are a champion of evidence based intellectual arguments.

He is. Sad's smarter than you are, less deluded than you are and not totally farmed out, like a Kool-Aid swallowing zombie.

You haven't even realized that everything you've posted in your DL's defence goes totally against your adopted country's interests.

Your mother country's next. When DL invades Greenland, will you support that too?

Don't answer that.

Frank wrote on Aug 13^th, 2025 at 6:33pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 4:36pm: Frank wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 4:08pm: Put American workers first, build American industry, protect American sovereignty. This is the heart of the America First agenda. It’s not new, it’s certainly not radical. It’s the most American economic policy in history. Five leaders, one philosophy, make tariffs great again, make America great again.” Breitbart, what a flapping joke. It's what Navarro leaves out (or distorts) that's what is important. In the 18th and 19th centuries, tariffs were one of the few ways to raise federal revenue. The US was a developing, industrialising nation competing with established powers. Today, the US is a mature, service-heavy economy with complex global supply chains. Historically, high tariffs often provoked trade retaliation, raised consumer prices, and sometimes harmed the very industries they were meant to protect (eg, the Smoot–Hawley Tariff of 1930 worsened the Great Depression). Navarro ignores these downsides. Hamilton and Clay's tariffs were targeted in a far smaller, less interconnected economy. Trump's tariffs are broad, global, and hit US allies as well as rivals, which has disrupted supply chains and raised costs for US manufacturers.  Basically, what I said here. There's little hard evidence that Trump's tariffs in 2018–2020 significantly boosted US manufacturing in the long run. Some industries saw short-term gains, but many more faced higher input costs and lost export markets. But as seems on trend for you Frank, as long as someone tells you what you want to hear, reinforcing what you already believe, the research stops there. Copy and paste here, then insult or ignore those who looked at both sides of the coin. Long on assertions, short on evidence - even though you think you are a champion of evidence based intellectual arguments.

Please...

This is where I have to list the claims I made, then ask you what source you'll actually accept when I cite the evidence. 
Then you'll play silly buggers again, go around the twist, not answer the question and try to move onto something else in a ninja-vanish smoke bomb attempt comprised of insults.

What's the point?

Should I bother?  Will you come to the party or continue to be a whiny loser?

Tariffs have a much, much longer history than free trade. For centuries tariffs were one of the main sources of government revenue, until the fairly recent introduction of income tax (itself not universal, unlike tariffs).

Free trade only works when everyone is equal. It sorta worked in the EEC then France Germany and the BeNeLux countries decided to try it for a limited range of goods.
Once extended to places like Greece, Portugal, Eastern Europe, it started to become a political mechanism, because the participants weren't equal.
With China lying and cheating itself into the WTO, free trade was totally deformed.

Time to review and correct. Tariffs bring everyone to the REnegotiating table. Things can't go on in the deformed, cheating, lying ways of China et al.

Sox and toasters cost a bit more for a while? Worth it. Better than total industrial dependence on countries that are working against you.

Frank wrote on Aug 14^th, 2025 at 10:45am:

Tariffs have a much, much longer history than free trade.

Nobody is saying tariffs are bad per se.

It's the way Trump - the adjudicated rapist and convicted felon - applies them that's the problem.

He has no idea what he's doing, as usual.

Tariffs need to be wielded like a surgeon's scalpel, not a blacksmith's sledge hammer.

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 14^th, 2025 at 11:36am:

Frank wrote on Aug 14th, 2025 at 10:45am: Tariffs have a much, much longer history than free trade. Nobody is saying tariffs are bad per se. It's the way Trump - the adjudicated rapist and convicted felon - applies them that's the problem. He has no idea what he's doing, as usual. Tariffs need to be wielded like a surgeon's scalpel, not a blacksmith's sledge hammer.

Free trade only works when everyone is equal. It sorta worked in the EEC then France Germany and the BeNeLux countries decided to try it for a limited range of goods.
Once extended to places like Greece, Portugal, Eastern Europe, it started to become a political mechanism, because the participants weren't equal.
With China lying and cheating itself into the WTO, free trade was totally deformed.

Time to review and correct. Tariffs bring everyone to the REnegotiating table. Things can't go on in the deformed, cheating, lying ways of China et al.

Sox and toasters cost a bit more for a while? Worth it. Better than total industrial dependence on countries that are working against you.

Frank wrote on Aug 14^th, 2025 at 11:50am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 14th, 2025 at 11:36am: Frank wrote on Aug 14th, 2025 at 10:45am: Tariffs have a much, much longer history than free trade. Nobody is saying tariffs are bad per se. It's the way Trump - the adjudicated rapist and convicted felon - applies them that's the problem. He has no idea what he's doing, as usual. Tariffs need to be wielded like a surgeon's scalpel, not a blacksmith's sledge hammer. Free trade only works when everyone is equal. It sorta worked in the EEC then France Germany and the BeNeLux countries decided to try it for a limited range of goods. Once extended to places like Greece, Portugal, Eastern Europe, it started to become a political mechanism, because the participants weren't equal. With China lying and cheating itself into the WTO, free trade was totally deformed. Time to review and correct. Tariffs bring everyone to the REnegotiating table. Things can't go on in the deformed, cheating, lying ways of China et al. Sox and toasters cost a bit more for a while? Worth it. Better than total industrial dependence on countries that are working against you.

Tendentious, windy and blinkered bollocks, as usual.

Frank wrote on Aug 14^th, 2025 at 11:50am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 14th, 2025 at 11:36am: Frank wrote on Aug 14th, 2025 at 10:45am: Tariffs have a much, much longer history than free trade. Nobody is saying tariffs are bad per se. It's the way Trump - the adjudicated rapist and convicted felon - applies them that's the problem. He has no idea what he's doing, as usual. Tariffs need to be wielded like a surgeon's scalpel, not a blacksmith's sledge hammer. Free trade only works when everyone is equal. It sorta worked in the EEC then France Germany and the BeNeLux countries decided to try it for a limited range of goods. Once extended to places like Greece, Portugal, Eastern Europe, it started to become a political mechanism, because the participants weren't equal. With China lying and cheating itself into the WTO, free trade was totally deformed. Time to review and correct. Tariffs bring everyone to the REnegotiating table. Things can't go on in the deformed, cheating, lying ways of China et al. Sox and toasters cost a bit more for a while? Worth it. Better than total industrial dependence on countries that are working against you.

I think you've broken him, haha. He's reduced to copy-pasting the same thing over and over, stuck in a loop. The cognitive dissonance has won, and he's parroting his own words so he doesn't have to confront what you've said. It's a level of weakness that's almost impressive in its fragility.

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 14^th, 2025 at 2:09pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 14th, 2025 at 11:50am: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 14th, 2025 at 11:36am: Frank wrote on Aug 14th, 2025 at 10:45am: Tariffs have a much, much longer history than free trade. Nobody is saying tariffs are bad per se. It's the way Trump - the adjudicated rapist and convicted felon - applies them that's the problem. He has no idea what he's doing, as usual. Tariffs need to be wielded like a surgeon's scalpel, not a blacksmith's sledge hammer. Free trade only works when everyone is equal. It sorta worked in the EEC then France Germany and the BeNeLux countries decided to try it for a limited range of goods. Once extended to places like Greece, Portugal, Eastern Europe, it started to become a political mechanism, because the participants weren't equal. With China lying and cheating itself into the WTO, free trade was totally deformed. Time to review and correct. Tariffs bring everyone to the REnegotiating table. Things can't go on in the deformed, cheating, lying ways of China et al. Sox and toasters cost a bit more for a while? Worth it. Better than total industrial dependence on countries that are working against you. I think you've broken him, haha. He's reduced to copy-pasting the same thing over and over, stuck in a loop. The cognitive dissonance has won, and he's parroting his own words so he doesn't have to confront what you've said. It's a level of weakness that's almost impressive in its fragility.

Creep, like you, ignored the pertinent bit so I reminded him.

Frank wrote on Aug 14^th, 2025 at 2:15pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 14th, 2025 at 2:09pm: Frank wrote on Aug 14th, 2025 at 11:50am: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 14th, 2025 at 11:36am: Frank wrote on Aug 14th, 2025 at 10:45am: Tariffs have a much, much longer history than free trade. Nobody is saying tariffs are bad per se. It's the way Trump - the adjudicated rapist and convicted felon - applies them that's the problem. He has no idea what he's doing, as usual. Tariffs need to be wielded like a surgeon's scalpel, not a blacksmith's sledge hammer. Free trade only works when everyone is equal. It sorta worked in the EEC then France Germany and the BeNeLux countries decided to try it for a limited range of goods. Once extended to places like Greece, Portugal, Eastern Europe, it started to become a political mechanism, because the participants weren't equal. With China lying and cheating itself into the WTO, free trade was totally deformed. Time to review and correct. Tariffs bring everyone to the REnegotiating table. Things can't go on in the deformed, cheating, lying ways of China et al. Sox and toasters cost a bit more for a while? Worth it. Better than total industrial dependence on countries that are working against you. I think you've broken him, haha. He's reduced to copy-pasting the same thing over and over, stuck in a loop. The cognitive dissonance has won, and he's parroting his own words so he doesn't have to confront what you've said. It's a level of weakness that's almost impressive in its fragility. Creep, like you, ignored the pertinent bit so I reminded him.

You've only posted your opinion, which is worth less than dogshit.

At least that might fertilise the ground where it lies.

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 14^th, 2025 at 3:07pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 14th, 2025 at 2:15pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 14th, 2025 at 2:09pm: Frank wrote on Aug 14th, 2025 at 11:50am: greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 14th, 2025 at 11:36am: Frank wrote on Aug 14th, 2025 at 10:45am: Tariffs have a much, much longer history than free trade. Nobody is saying tariffs are bad per se. It's the way Trump - the adjudicated rapist and convicted felon - applies them that's the problem. He has no idea what he's doing, as usual. Tariffs need to be wielded like a surgeon's scalpel, not a blacksmith's sledge hammer. Free trade only works when everyone is equal. It sorta worked in the EEC then France Germany and the BeNeLux countries decided to try it for a limited range of goods. Once extended to places like Greece, Portugal, Eastern Europe, it started to become a political mechanism, because the participants weren't equal. With China lying and cheating itself into the WTO, free trade was totally deformed. Time to review and correct. Tariffs bring everyone to the REnegotiating table. Things can't go on in the deformed, cheating, lying ways of China et al. Sox and toasters cost a bit more for a while? Worth it. Better than total industrial dependence on countries that are working against you. I think you've broken him, haha. He's reduced to copy-pasting the same thing over and over, stuck in a loop. The cognitive dissonance has won, and he's parroting his own words so he doesn't have to confront what you've said. It's a level of weakness that's almost impressive in its fragility. Creep, like you, ignored the pertinent bit so I reminded him. You've only posted your opinion, which is worth less than dogshit. At least that might fertilise the ground where it lies.

You haven't posted anything but your own opinion.  Where does that lie?

Frank wrote on Aug 14^th, 2025 at 3:21pm:

You haven't posted anything but your own opinion.  Where does that lie?

You only say that because you keep stripping out everything you can't handle when quoting people and then refusing to answer the straightforward question of what source you'll actually accept when someone provides citations and evidence.

Anything to ensure you're never held to account.

No wonder you're so devoted to Trump, he's terrified of accountability as well.

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 14^th, 2025 at 3:40pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 14th, 2025 at 3:21pm: You haven't posted anything but your own opinion.  Where does that lie? You only say that because you keep stripping out everything you can't handle when quoting people and then refusing to answer the straightforward question of what source you'll actually accept when someone provides citations and evidence. Anything to ensure you're never held to account. No wonder you're so devoted to Trump, he's terrified of accountability as well.

I posted from the HLR, with link.
You posted your own long winded opinion.

So enough of your steamed up spouting. Tip yourself over already, teapot.

Frank wrote on Aug 14^th, 2025 at 3:57pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 14th, 2025 at 3:40pm: Frank wrote on Aug 14th, 2025 at 3:21pm: You haven't posted anything but your own opinion.  Where does that lie? You only say that because you keep stripping out everything you can't handle when quoting people and then refusing to answer the straightforward question of what source you'll actually accept when someone provides citations and evidence. Anything to ensure you're never held to account. No wonder you're so devoted to Trump, he's terrified of accountability as well. I posted from the HLR, with link. You posted your own long winded opinion. So enough of your steamed up spouting. Tip yourself over already, teapot.

Silly, grimacing bollocks again.

Frank wrote on Aug 14^th, 2025 at 11:50am:

Free trade only works when everyone is equal. It sorta worked in the EEC then France Germany and the BeNeLux countries decided to try it for a limited range of goods. Once extended to places like Greece, Portugal, Eastern Europe, it started to become a political mechanism, because the participants weren't equal. With China lying and cheating itself into the WTO, free trade was totally deformed. Time to review and correct. Tariffs bring everyone to the REnegotiating table. Things can't go on in the deformed, cheating, lying ways of China et al. Sox and toasters cost a bit more for a while? Worth it. Better than total industrial dependence on countries that are working against you.

I wonder if the US trade deficit that Trump has been saying since his first term he would fix would be an accurate measure of the effectiveness of Trump's tariffs?

Paki gob on a stick wrote on Aug 13^th, 2025 at 10:17pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 6:33pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 4:36pm: Frank wrote on Aug 13th, 2025 at 4:08pm: Put American workers first, build American industry, protect American sovereignty. This is the heart of the America First agenda. It’s not new, it’s certainly not radical. It’s the most American economic policy in history. Five leaders, one philosophy, make tariffs great again, make America great again.” Breitbart, what a flapping joke. It's what Navarro leaves out (or distorts) that's what is important. In the 18th and 19th centuries, tariffs were one of the few ways to raise federal revenue. The US was a developing, industrialising nation competing with established powers. Today, the US is a mature, service-heavy economy with complex global supply chains. Historically, high tariffs often provoked trade retaliation, raised consumer prices, and sometimes harmed the very industries they were meant to protect (eg, the Smoot–Hawley Tariff of 1930 worsened the Great Depression). Navarro ignores these downsides. Hamilton and Clay's tariffs were targeted in a far smaller, less interconnected economy. Trump's tariffs are broad, global, and hit US allies as well as rivals, which has disrupted supply chains and raised costs for US manufacturers.  Basically, what I said here. There's little hard evidence that Trump's tariffs in 2018–2020 significantly boosted US manufacturing in the long run. Some industries saw short-term gains, but many more faced higher input costs and lost export markets. But as seems on trend for you Frank, as long as someone tells you what you want to hear, reinforcing what you already believe, the research stops there. Copy and paste here, then insult or ignore those who looked at both sides of the coin. Long on assertions, shot on evidence - even though you gthink you are a champion of evidence based intellectual arguments. He is. Sad's smarter than you are, less deluded than you are and not totally farmed out, like a Kool-Aid swallowing zombie. You haven't even realized that everything you've posted in your DL's defence goes totally against your adopted country's interests. Your mother country's next. When DL invades Greenland, will you support that too? Don't answer that.

Hi there, dear boy, you may have missed this one, highlighted.

If you need any clarification to inform your answer, please ask.

Cheers.