Quote:

Arab states call on Hamas to disarm and relinquish power in unprecedented move Jul 31, 2025 Arab and Muslim states including Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Egypt have for the first time issued a joint call for Hamas to disarm and relinquish power in the Gaza Strip as part of efforts to end the war in the territory. The 22-member Arab League, the entire European Union and another 17 countries backed a declaration signed at a United Nations conference co-hosted by Saudi Arabia and France on Tuesday. The meeting in New York aimed to address “the peaceful settlement of the question of Palestine and the implementation of the Two-State Solution,” and the declaration lays out what steps the signatories think should be taken next. “Governance, law enforcement and security across all Palestinian territory must lie solely with the Palestinian Authority, with appropriate international support,” the joint document read, adding that “in the context of ending the war in Gaza, Hamas must end its rule in Gaza and hand over its weapons to the Palestinian Authority, with international engagement and support, in line with the objective of a sovereign and independent Palestinian State.” The text also condemned the deadly October 7, 2023 attack by Hamas on Israel,and proposed the deployment of “a temporary international stabilization mission” upon invitation by the PA and “under the aegis of the United Nations.” “We welcomed the readiness expressed by some Member States to contribute in troops,” it said. France, who co-chaired the conference, called the declaration “unprecedented.” Speaking at the UN Tuesday, Jean-Noël Barrot, the French foreign minister, said that “on the part of Saudi Arabia and the Arab and Muslim countries who for the first time will condemn terrorism, the acts of terror on the 7th of October, a call for the disarmament of Hamas and expressed their hope to have a normalized relationship with Israel in due time.” Both mediators in ceasefire negotiations, Qatar and Egypt have maintained ties with Hamas and Israel throughout the war. In March, a plan for Gaza formulated by Egypt excluded Hamas from governance of the enclave once the war ends, a draft of the plan obtained by CNN showed. The plan was discussed by Arab leaders meeting in Cairo in an emergency summit, with Egypt’s president proposing a Palestinian committee to temporarily govern Gaza – taking over from Hamas and eventually handing power to the Palestinian Authority (PA). Saudi Arabia has repeatedly pushed for a revival of the two-state solution. France has said it will vote to recognize a Palestinian state in September, to Israel’s dismay. The United Kingdom also said it will recognize a Palestinian state in September unless Israel agrees to a ceasefire in Gaza. Both Israel and the United States condemned France and Britain’s statements. Hamas has, however, shown no signs of relinquishing power in the enclave, yet officials within the militant group have in the past given contradictory statements about the movement’s role in a post-war Gaza. https://edition.cnn.com/2025/07/30/middleeast/arab-league-hamas-gaza-israel-intl

Arab muslim countries call Hamas terrorists.

Lefties who support Hamas and Palestine Islamic Jihad support Islamic terrorists.

---

Even the Muslims now realise that the only people standing in the way of a Palestinian state are the Palestinians.

I wonder when Greg and John and Nail will catch on.

Quote:

Hamas has, however, shown no signs of relinquishing power in the enclave

They won't give up - and why should they?

Every night they sleep well, in tunnels deep underground.
They get the lion's share of all the food and water while
the women and children take all the bullets and earthquake bombs dropped on them.
They only come to the surface when they are bored -
just to take a few pot shots at any IDF forces and then scurry underground again -
like rats - before they can be located and killed.

They only care about themselves not the Palestinian people.

freediver wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2025 at 3:19pm:

Even the Muslims now realise that the only people standing in the way of a Palestinian state are the Palestinians. I wonder when Greg and John and Nail will catch on.

Who are 'the Muslims'?

It's all explained in the opening post Meister.

freediver wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2025 at 3:34pm:

It's all explained in the opening post Meister.

What do you mean by 'the Muslims'?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2025 at 3:38pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 2nd, 2025 at 3:34pm: It's all explained in the opening post Meister. What do you mean by 'the Muslims'?

I mean the people referred to in the opening post Meister. Honestly, it would be easier for you to just read the rest of the thread rather than getting me to fill you in. Do try to keep up.

freediver wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2025 at 3:44pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 2nd, 2025 at 3:38pm: freediver wrote on Aug 2nd, 2025 at 3:34pm: It's all explained in the opening post Meister. What do you mean by 'the Muslims'? I mean the people referred to in the opening post Meister. Honestly, it would be easier for you to just read the rest of the thread rather than getting me to fill you in. Do try to keep up.

Do you mean the Arab League?

I was the second person to post in the thread Meister. I thought it was bleeding obvious that I was referring to the opening post.

Was it not obvious to you?

freediver wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2025 at 3:55pm:

I was the second person to post in the thread Meister. I thought it was bleeding obvious that I was referring to the opening post. Was it not obvious to you?

So by 'the Muslims' you meant the Arab League, then.

Given your general ignorance of politics, economics, social and cultural issues, I wanted to confirm what you meant by 'the Muslims'.

Israel is a state. It is a state set up under the explicit auspices of the United Nations, in 1947-48, in what was intended to be a rational and peaceful two-state solution to long-running disputes between the Jews and the Arabs in the British mandate territory of Palestine. The Jews accepted the UN proposal. The Arab leadership rejected it. They immediately set about trying to destroy the nascent state of Israel. They failed totally. But they have never come to the table to negotiate a two-state solution in good faith.

This is not a matter of settlements on the West Bank or of Israeli treatment of the Palestinian Authority/Fatah/Palestine Liberation Organisation. There simply has never been a Palestinian Arab leadership that was prepared to accept the radical defeat of efforts to destroy Israel and to lead Palestinian Arabs to lay down their arms and make a viable settlement with it. Neither Fatah nor Hamas seeks a two-state solution. They seek the destruction of Israel.

Hamas made that clearer than ever on October 7, 2023.

In the 1920s, the Zionists themselves debated whether an agreement with the Arabs could be reached and a Jewish state accepted in the Middle East. Ze’ev Jabotinsky and others argued pessimistically that the Arabs would not accept a Jewish state until all their efforts to destroy it had been defeated and they came to the realisation that the Jews were there to stay.

The frustration of repeated efforts at negotiation led to a shift to the right in Israeli politics – from Labor to Likud. Israelis slowly and reluctantly reached the collective conclusion that Jabotinsky had been right.

The present war has brought all this to a climax. Hamas demonstrated, once and for all, that its whole purpose was the destruction of Israel and the massacre of Jews. Iran’s brutal and fanatical regime and its Shia proxy Hezbollah in Lebanon had long made plain that their plans were annihilation of the “Zionist entity” and the Jews worldwide.

Israel has hit back with stunning effectiveness, after the initial shock of the October 7 assault by Hamas. But thousands of self-styled radicals, Muslim immigrants in the West and common citizens have rallied to the cause of Hamas and chanted explicitly anti-Zionist and anti-Semitic slogans over the past 21 months. Those slogans are not simply criticisms of the way in which Israel has responded to its avowed enemies and an atrocious assault on its citizens.

They pivot on the supposedly Marxist insistence that ­Israel is itself a Western, “white”, neo-colonial and imperialist project. Much of the angry support for Israel’s Arab enemies springs from that premise.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/claims-of-alleged-zionist-imperialism-are-flatout-false/news-story/d8b8a0df8a06715f9fa39dff95e1425f
Paul Monk

freediver wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2025 at 3:19pm:

Even the Muslims now realise that the only people standing in the way of a Palestinian state are the Palestinians. I wonder when Greg and John and Nail will catch on.

This week, the Australian government edged closer calling for Palestinian statehood. Its weakness is malignant. Meanwhile, all 72 members of the Arab League issued their own statement, demanding Hamas surrender, release the hostages and disband. They know. Oh they know, all right …

What motivation would Hamas have to do that? It has the West where it wants it regarding statehood, and if our government and others are dumb enough to believe that’s where it will stop, then these are perilous times indeed.

I don’t care who you are. A normal, run-of-the-mill person like me, a newspaper editor, a publisher, a journalist, a housewife, a teacher a gardener. The Prime Minister, the Foreign Minister. I don’t care. If you are OK to weaponise and exploit the sickness of a child suffering since birth with serious health issues, simply to push your anti-Israel agenda, you aren’t just part of the problem, you are the problem.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/useful-idiots-of-the-west-target-israel-with-lies-blood-libel/news-story/5a24476accf65de0db8befcf2398e55a

London: Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s office says Israel’s security cabinet has approved a plan to take over Gaza City, shunning global calls for a ceasefire amid mounting casualties from the war.

The decision on Friday marks another escalation of Israel’s 22-month military operation to wipe out Hamas, a listed terrorist group.


...


Asked earlier on Fox News whether Israel would take control of all of Gaza, Netanyahu had said: “We intend to, in order to assure our security, remove Hamas there, enable the population to be free of [Hamas] and to pass it to civilian governance that is not Hamas and not anyone advocating the destruction of Israel,” Netanyahu had earlier told Fox News.

https://www.theage.com.au/world/middle-east/israel-intends-to-take-over-gaza-netanyahu-says-as-security-cabinet-meets-20250807-p5mlab.html

Israel is readying to assault thelast Hamas stronghold and finish that phase of this war started by Hamas.

What IS your problem?  You want them left alone so they can rebuild and do it again?  Or Hamas abolished completely and a new chance given to the honest people of Gaza to prosper?  Lebanon has ordered the disarmament of Hezbollah at the same time..

Freed from a violent and merciless death cult, the ordinary people of Gaza will welcome the chance to get ahead and have a decent life for selves and families.  That's the way of it all over the world, and despite the 'dancing in the streets' - that echoes exactly like the deep mourning of the death of a North Korean dictator - mourn and weep and wail or you die - you are all totally bereft (or dance, pardner) and you'd better believe it!!

The poor bastards would do that or be shot as traitors.... wake up...

In the year before 7/10 - Israel INCREASED visa passes into Israel to Gazans so they could work and earn good money - and the reward was?  And how many hundreds of normal fathers and grand-fathers who went to their 'government' Hamas to request that they be permitted to move their families away from the fighting and death were shot like dogs as 'traitors'?  How many ordinary people there were shot as traitors of the Zionists for not being 500% behind the death cult?

WAKE UP!

Netanyahu intends to be the man who completes Ben-Gurion's, the Jewish Agency's, and the Zionists' mission of establishing the state of Israel within the ancient regions of Judea, Samaria, and Galilee.

He wants that to be his legacy.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 10^th, 2025 at 10:37pm:

Netanyahu intends to be the man who completes Ben-Gurion's, the Jewish Agency's, and the Zionists' mission of establishing the state of Israel within the ancient regions of Judea, Samaria, and Galilee. He wants that to be his legacy.

Well, Israel DID give Gazans a chance to peacefully self-govern and start establishing their own state in Gaza in 2005.
Gazans opted for permanent intifada against Israel.


If they cannot be left to their own devices without constantly attacking Israel then they have to be taken over. What is the third option?

Ben-Gurion's legacy has always been marred within the Israeli political and ruling classes for not having finished the job when he had the chance.

For the vast majority of Jewish Israelis, there is no place for a Palestine established within the borders of the ancient Jewish regions, and there never was... and there never will be.

The international community forced Jewish soon-to-be Israelis to accept non-Jews within its 1948 borders as the price of recognition... non-Jews have never been welcomed or welcome.

Well - it's all about to change now......

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 10^th, 2025 at 11:39pm:

Ben-Gurion's legacy has always been marred within the Israeli political and ruling classes for not having finished the job when he had the chance. For the vast majority of Jewish Israelis, there is no place for a Palestine established within the borders of the ancient Jewish regions, and there never was... and there never will be. The international community forced Jewish soon-to-be Israelis to accept non-Jews within its 1948 borders as the price of recognition... non-Jews have never been welcomed or welcome.

Israel evacuated Gaza in 2005. They removed even their dead. Gaza was totally Judenfrei.

And you saying that they knew all along that it's no use, the Gazans will never make a go of living in peace next to Israel but will, eventually, give cause for re-occupation?
.

The ultimate goal of Zionism, after the establishment of Israel within all the land comprising the ancient regions, would be the reestablishment of the Temple on the Temple Mount as the Third Temple.

This final goal is currently unattainable as it would require the demolition of the Al-Aqsa mosque and its landmark shrine - the Dome of the Rock.

A fact that must always be applied to the Palestine-Israel conflict is that Arab peoples did not initiate war or persecution against Jewish people.

The conflict is the direct result of European non-Jewish (historically Christian) peoples' persecution of the Jewish diaspora, reaching as far back as, if not Tiberius, then Claudius Caesar, to the end of WW2 in 1945.

Elie Wiesel constructed a calendar with each of its 365 days commemorating a pogrom/ forced exile/ persecution of Jewish communities from somewhere across Europe over those 2000 years.

When foreign heads of state/government make their first official visit to Israel, they are shown Yad Vashem as a mandatory part of their trip.

As it is historical European persecution that gave drive and power to Zionism, which, in its turn, caused the conflict, the responsibility for resettling Palestinians should fall on Europe to bear.

If the EU paid all resettlement costs, and Turkey, Bosnia and Herzegovina volunteered themselves as host nations, maybe if the 'stans' of the central Asian republics chipped in as well, maybe all Palestinians could be accommodated.

The EU could pick up the tab for the next, say, 50 years.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 9:18am:

The EU could pick up the tab for the next, say, 50 years.

To assist with resettlement costs, countries that were once former colonies of European states, e.g. US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Ecuador, Peru, etc (former British/Portuguese/Spanish colonies) in South America, could also provide funds or offer resettlement.

Argentina might have a heightened obligation given all the Nazis it offered sanctuary to.

And the Vatican, given how many Nazis it assisted in reaching South America.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 9:49am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 9:18am: The EU could pick up the tab for the next, say, 50 years. To assist with resettlement costs, countries that were once former colonies of European states, e.g. US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Ecuador, Peru, etc (former British/Portuguese/Spanish colonies) in South America, could also provide funds or offer resettlement.

Most Palestinians are from Egypt, Lebanon and other Arab states so wouldn't it be easier for them to just return to their homelands?.

Leroy wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 9:52am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 9:49am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 9:18am: The EU could pick up the tab for the next, say, 50 years. To assist with resettlement costs, countries that were once former colonies of European states, e.g. US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Ecuador, Peru, etc (former British/Portuguese/Spanish colonies) in South America, could also provide funds or offer resettlement. Most Palestinians are from Egypt, Lebanon and other Arab states so wouldn't it be easier for them to just return to their homelands?.

Given that Europe caused the conflict, it should be Europe's responsibility to clean up the mess.

But if Egypt and Lebanon etc offer resettlement, then Europe could pay for it.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 9:54am:

Leroy wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 9:52am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 9:49am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 9:18am: The EU could pick up the tab for the next, say, 50 years. To assist with resettlement costs, countries that were once former colonies of European states, e.g. US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Ecuador, Peru, etc (former British/Portuguese/Spanish colonies) in South America, could also provide funds or offer resettlement. Most Palestinians are from Egypt, Lebanon and other Arab states so wouldn't it be easier for them to just return to their homelands?. Given that Europe caused the conflict, it should be Europe's responsibility to clean up the mess. But if Egypt and Lebanon etc offer resettlement, then Europe could pay for it.

Caused what conflict?

Leroy wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 10:23am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 9:54am: Leroy wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 9:52am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 9:49am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 9:18am: The EU could pick up the tab for the next, say, 50 years. To assist with resettlement costs, countries that were once former colonies of European states, e.g. US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Ecuador, Peru, etc (former British/Portuguese/Spanish colonies) in South America, could also provide funds or offer resettlement. Most Palestinians are from Egypt, Lebanon and other Arab states so wouldn't it be easier for them to just return to their homelands?. Given that Europe caused the conflict, it should be Europe's responsibility to clean up the mess. But if Egypt and Lebanon etc offer resettlement, then Europe could pay for it. Caused what conflict?

The original Zionist invasion of the region.

Had collective European guilt not kept European nations from actively preventing the mass migration of European Jews into the region, or, for that matter, had Europeans not persecuted European Jews in the first place, thus prompting surviving Jews to determine that European murderous inclinations towards Jews can never be remedied, most European Jews would likely not have opted for leaving Europe.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 10:32am:

Leroy wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 10:23am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 9:54am: Leroy wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 9:52am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 9:49am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 9:18am: The EU could pick up the tab for the next, say, 50 years. To assist with resettlement costs, countries that were once former colonies of European states, e.g. US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Ecuador, Peru, etc (former British/Portuguese/Spanish colonies) in South America, could also provide funds or offer resettlement. Most Palestinians are from Egypt, Lebanon and other Arab states so wouldn't it be easier for them to just return to their homelands?. Given that Europe caused the conflict, it should be Europe's responsibility to clean up the mess. But if Egypt and Lebanon etc offer resettlement, then Europe could pay for it. Caused what conflict? The original Zionist invasion of the region. Had collective European guilt not kept European nations from actively preventing the mass migration of European Jews into the region, or, for that matter, had Europeans not persecuted European Jews in the first place, thus prompting surviving Jews to determine that European murderous inclinations towards Jews can never be remedied, most European Jews would likely not have opted for leaving Europe.

By the same token if Egypt, Syria, Jordan and others prevented the invasion of arabs into palestine this would never have happened.

Leroy wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 10:39am:

By the same token if Egypt, Syria, Jordan and others prevented the invasion of arabs into palestine this would never have happened.

Being Europeans, the Zionists, and other surviving Jews were a foreign people to the region, making their invasion, with their foreign religious, cultural and social sensitivities, incompatible with the region, which was Semitic and Arab in religion, culture and social structure.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 10:51am:

Leroy wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 10:39am: By the same token if Egypt, Syria, Jordan and others prevented the invasion of arabs into palestine this would never have happened. Being Europeans, the Zionists, and other surviving Jews were a foreign people to the region, making their invasion, with their foreign religious, cultural and social sensitivities, incompatible with the region, which was Semitic and Arab in religion, culture and social structure.

They originally come from Israel but were driven out by islam.

Leroy wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 10:54am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 10:51am: Leroy wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 10:39am: By the same token if Egypt, Syria, Jordan and others prevented the invasion of arabs into palestine this would never have happened. Being Europeans, the Zionists, and other surviving Jews were a foreign people to the region, making their invasion, with their foreign religious, cultural and social sensitivities, incompatible with the region, which was Semitic and Arab in religion, culture and social structure. They originally come from Israel but were driven out by islam.

Their ancient religious ancestors were driven out by the Romans 2000 years ago, hundreds of years before the birth of Mohammed and Islam, as a Roman 'final solution' to Jewish resistance to Roman rule.

Arab states called for that?  So that means a 'properly constituted' "Palestine" or whatever, is one without Ham-assed; one with a proper government; a civil government'; one that actually works for the betterment of its people instead of killing them and everyone else?

I can understand that after all the trouble they've had with Hamas and similar.

The New Riviera of the Eastern Mediterranean ...

**I have a dream.. a Middle East with no Hezbollah... no Hamas ... no vicious fighting that destroys nations and leaves them impoverished... where a man can see the results of his efforts instead of getting his eyes shot out... I have that dream....**

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 8:31am:

A fact that must always be applied to the Palestine-Israel conflict is that Arab peoples did not initiate war or persecution against Jewish people. The conflict is the direct result of European non-Jewish (historically Christian) peoples' persecution of the Jewish diaspora, reaching as far back as, if not Tiberius, then Claudius Caesar, to the end of WW2 in 1945. Elie Wiesel constructed a calendar with each of its 365 days commemorating a pogrom/ forced exile/ persecution of Jewish communities from somewhere across Europe over those 2000 years. When foreign heads of state/government make their first official visit to Israel, they are shown Yad Vashem as a mandatory part of their trip. As it is historical European persecution that gave drive and power to Zionism, which, in its turn, caused the conflict, the responsibility for resettling Palestinians should fall on Europe to bear.

That 'fact' is a myth.


The situation of Jews in Arab lands reached a low point in the 19th century. Jews in most of North Africa (including Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Morocco) were forced to live in ghettos. In Morocco, which contained the largest Jewish community in the Islamic Diaspora, Jews were made to walk barefoot or wear shoes of straw when outside the ghetto. Even Muslim children participated in the degradation of Jews, by throwing stones at them or harassing them in other ways. The frequency of anti-Jewish violence increased, and many Jews were executed on charges of apostasy. Ritual murder accusations against the Jews became commonplace in the Ottoman Empire.(10)

By the twentieth century, the status of the dhimmi in Muslim lands had not significantly improved. H.E.W. Young, British Vice Consul in Mosul, wrote in 1909:

The attitude of the Muslims toward the Christians and the Jews is that of a master towards slaves, whom he treats with a certain lordly tolerance so long as they keep their place. Any sign of pretension to equality is promptly repressed.(11)

The danger for Jews became even greater as a showdown approached in the UN over partition in 1947. The Syrian delegate, Faris el-Khouri, warned: Unless the Palestine problem is settled, we shall have difficulty in protecting and safeguarding the Jews in the Arab world.(12)

More than a thousand Jews were killed in anti-Jewish rioting during the 1940s in Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Syria, and Yemen.(13) This helped trigger the mass exodus of Jews from Arab countries.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-treatment-of-jews-in-arab-islamic-countries

The European Holocaust was a catalyst for the final step of but by no means was the cause of Jews wanting to re-establish what they lost in 65 AD.

Given Zionism's original mission, which is still alive in the minds of Israeli political and ruling classes, requires the establishment of Israel that completely incorporates ancient regions, there is no place in their strategy for accommodating a Palestinian state.

Hence, there will never be peace in the region... Palestinians will always be aggrieved by the original invasion, and Israelis will always find ways to leverage that grievance to foment conflict, which justifies further annexation or, at least, occupation, until the Zionists' original strategy has been achieved.

While some think they have a point that the Arab conflicts with Middle Eastern Jews somehow played a part in the mass migration of European Jews into the region, of course, have it backwards.

If the Middle East were as dangerous a place for Jews as they would like us to believe, why would European Jews feel compelled to migrate there in the first place, if not for the fear of European murderous intentions towards Jews flaring up again even after the Holocaust?

The many Jewish communities in the Middle East did not attempt to migrate en masse out of the region.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 11:22am:

Given Zionism's original mission, which is still alive in the minds of Israeli political and ruling classes, requires the establishment of Israel that completely incorporates ancient regions, there is no place in their strategy for accommodating a Palestinian state. Hence, there will never be peace in the region... Palestinians will always be aggrieved by the original invasion, and Israelis will always find ways to leverage that grievance to foment conflict, which justifies further annexation or, at least, occupation, until the Zionists' original strategy has been achieved.

Do the Palestinians incorporate Israel as a state?.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 11:22am:

Given Zionism's original mission, which is still alive in the minds of Israeli political and ruling classes, requires the establishment of Israel that completely incorporates ancient regions, there is no place in their strategy for accommodating a Palestinian state. Hence, there will never be peace in the region... Palestinians will always be aggrieved by the original invasion, and Israelis will always find ways to leverage that grievance to foment conflict, which justifies further annexation or, at least, occupation, until the Zionists' original strategy has been achieved.

Jordan IS Palestine.

Leroy wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 12:05pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 11:22am: Given Zionism's original mission, which is still alive in the minds of Israeli political and ruling classes, requires the establishment of Israel that completely incorporates ancient regions, there is no place in their strategy for accommodating a Palestinian state. Hence, there will never be peace in the region... Palestinians will always be aggrieved by the original invasion, and Israelis will always find ways to leverage that grievance to foment conflict, which justifies further annexation or, at least, occupation, until the Zionists' original strategy has been achieved. Do the Palestinians incorporate Israel as a state?.

No... It's too late for that.

As a functioning democracy, Israel has established its credentials... no democracy will stand against it, and all will fight to defend it.

The only solution is to resettle Palestinians, preferably within Sunni Muslim countries.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 12:39pm:

Leroy wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 12:05pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 11:22am: Given Zionism's original mission, which is still alive in the minds of Israeli political and ruling classes, requires the establishment of Israel that completely incorporates ancient regions, there is no place in their strategy for accommodating a Palestinian state. Hence, there will never be peace in the region... Palestinians will always be aggrieved by the original invasion, and Israelis will always find ways to leverage that grievance to foment conflict, which justifies further annexation or, at least, occupation, until the Zionists' original strategy has been achieved. Do the Palestinians incorporate Israel as a state?. No... It's too late for that.

When was it NOT too late?

Between 1948 and 1967, Europe and the democracies did not hold out much hope for Israel's survival, with the US taking the lead with a wait-and-see policy.

The Six-Day War in 1967 stunned and electrified the world, and galvanised the democracies' opinion overnight... Israel had proved itself to be a viable state more than capable of defending itself against enemies that should, on paper, have wiped it off the map.

The Arab and Muslim hopes of the region returning to the old status quo died after that war and were subsequently buried in 1973 after the Yom Kippur War.

The notion of a Palestinian state was stillborn.

It's been dead for 60 years.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 1:29pm:

Between 1948 and 1967, Europe and the democracies did not hold out much hope for Israel's survival, with the US taking the lead with a wait-and-see policy. The Six-Day War in 1967 stunned and electrified the world, and galvanised the democracies' opinion overnight... Israel had proved itself to be a viable state more than capable of defending itself against enemies that should, on paper, have wiped it off the map. The Arab and Muslim hopes of the region returning to the old status quo died after that war and were subsequently buried in 1973 after the Yom Kippur War. The notion of a Palestinian state was stillborn. It's been dead for 60 years.

So "too late" means attempts to destroy Israel like in 1967 are recognised to be futile

But the jihad goes on..

As with the ancient Judeans with the Romans, and like all Semitic peoples, death is usually preferable to abandonment of god, religion and culture...

And the ancient Judeans got the full Roman hamburger for their implacable resistance... the complete destruction of their Temple, their mass slaughter and expulsion of survivors from their homeland... For 2000 years, they passed on the memory of the catastrophe of their Temple's destruction and their expulsion ('Next year in Jerusalem').

Is it so surprising that another, fully Semitic people - Arab Semites - also feel the same way?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 2:57pm:

As with the ancient Judeans with the Romans, and like all Semitic peoples, death is usually preferable to abandonment of god, religion and culture... And the ancient Judeans got the full Roman hamburger for their implacable resistance... the complete destruction of their Temple, their mass slaughter and expulsion of survivors from their homeland... For 2000 years, they passed on the memory of the catastrophe of their Temple's destruction and their expulsion ('Next year in Jerusalem'). Is it so surprising that another, fully Semitic people - Arab Semites - also feel the same way?

First tragedy then farce.

Anyway, you leave out 2000 years of history to compare the Pallos to the Jews. Doesn't work.

Jordan IS Palestine. Never existed before, now it does.  Israel existed before, now it does again.
Difference innit.

For those who imagine that a state of Israel once existed in the ancient world... it didn't.

Israel refers to a people "we who struggle with El (Yahweh/god)", not a place or a region.

In the ancient world, Jews were Judeans from Judea, not Samaritans who had their own subreligion - Samaritanism.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 12^th, 2025 at 11:08am:

freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 11:05am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 11:05am: freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 10:56am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 10:54am: freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 10:47am: Quote: They Jews are losing the PR war LOL. Even the Muslim countries are blaming Hamas for the situation in Gaza. Another 'the Muslim countries' reference... What are the opinions of the peoples of Pakistan, Indonesia, the 'stans'? The establishment of Israel, matching the ancient regions of Judea, Samaria and Galilee, is the founding doctrine of the modern state of Israel. If you want to know, ask them yourself. I am not going to do it for you. So you don't know the opinions of 'the Muslim countries' then. Are you saying you are unaware of what I am talking about Meister? Nobody knows what you are talking about... You don't belong in serious debate...

Are you sure you don't know what I am talking about Meister? You seem to have a very short memory.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 10^th, 2025 at 11:39pm:

Ben-Gurion's legacy has always been marred within the Israeli political and ruling classes for not having finished the job when he had the chance. For the vast majority of Jewish Israelis, there is no place for a Palestine established within the borders of the ancient Jewish regions, and there never was... and there never will be. The international community forced Jewish soon-to-be Israelis to accept non-Jews within its 1948 borders as the price of recognition... non-Jews have never been welcomed or welcome.

Garbage - there are 2 million Arab Israeli citizens - Israeli Arab Muslims are in the Knesset & the IDF.

If it's so unwelcoming why are they there?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 8:31am:

A fact that must always be applied to the Palestine-Israel conflict is that Arab peoples did not initiate war or persecution against Jewish people. The conflict is the direct result of European non-Jewish (historically Christian) peoples' persecution of the Jewish diaspora, reaching as far back as, if not Tiberius, then Claudius Caesar, to the end of WW2 in 1945. Elie Wiesel constructed a calendar with each of its 365 days commemorating a pogrom/ forced exile/ persecution of Jewish communities from somewhere across Europe over those 2000 years. When foreign heads of state/government make their first official visit to Israel, they are shown Yad Vashem as a mandatory part of their trip. As it is historical European persecution that gave drive and power to Zionism, which, in its turn, caused the conflict, the responsibility for resettling Palestinians should fall on Europe to bear.

Nonsense.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 11:22am:

Given Zionism's original mission, which is still alive in the minds of Israeli political and ruling classes, requires the establishment of Israel that completely incorporates ancient regions, there is no place in their strategy for accommodating a Palestinian state. Hence, there will never be peace in the region... Palestinians will always be aggrieved by the original invasion, and Israelis will always find ways to leverage that grievance to foment conflict, which justifies further annexation or, at least, occupation, until the Zionists' original strategy has been achieved.

The ancient regions were their original homelands/Kingdom.

There was no such thing as a Palestinian prior to 1948.

Gnads wrote on Aug 12^th, 2025 at 11:34am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11th, 2025 at 11:22am: Given Zionism's original mission, which is still alive in the minds of Israeli political and ruling classes, requires the establishment of Israel that completely incorporates ancient regions, there is no place in their strategy for accommodating a Palestinian state. Hence, there will never be peace in the region... Palestinians will always be aggrieved by the original invasion, and Israelis will always find ways to leverage that grievance to foment conflict, which justifies further annexation or, at least, occupation, until the Zionists' original strategy has been achieved. The ancient regions were their original homelands/Kingdom. There was no such thing as a Palestinian prior to 1948.

There was no such thing as an Australia before 1788... should we pack up and leave?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 11^th, 2025 at 2:57pm:

As with the ancient Judeans with the Romans, and like all Semitic peoples, death is usually preferable to abandonment of god, religion and culture... And the ancient Judeans got the full Roman hamburger for their implacable resistance... the complete destruction of their Temple, their mass slaughter and expulsion of survivors from their homeland... For 2000 years, they passed on the memory of the catastrophe of their Temple's destruction and their expulsion ('Next year in Jerusalem'). Is it so surprising that another, fully Semitic people - Arab Semites - also feel the same way?

That's a good one, 'fully Semitic'.

But if Bruce Pascoe is an Aborigine, as are all the blonde, blue eyed 'Aborigines' in universities, the media, and quangos, then 'fully' hardly matters anymore.

freediver wrote on Aug 12^th, 2025 at 11:10am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 11:08am: freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 11:05am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 11:05am: freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 10:56am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 10:54am: freediver wrote on Aug 12th, 2025 at 10:47am: Quote: They Jews are losing the PR war LOL. Even the Muslim countries are blaming Hamas for the situation in Gaza. Another 'the Muslim countries' reference... What are the opinions of the peoples of Pakistan, Indonesia, the 'stans'? The establishment of Israel, matching the ancient regions of Judea, Samaria and Galilee, is the founding doctrine of the modern state of Israel. If you want to know, ask them yourself. I am not going to do it for you. So you don't know the opinions of 'the Muslim countries' then. Are you saying you are unaware of what I am talking about Meister? Nobody knows what you are talking about... You don't belong in serious debate... Are you sure you don't know what I am talking about Meister? You seem to have a very short memory.

Meister, do you need me to explain what this is about?

Since Palestine exists only as an entity to have replaced and destroy Israel (&Judah) in the Roman past and continues to stand for the destruction of the new Israel re-established recently in modern times.
I can't see how anyone could responsibly and morally recognise it as any form of nation at all.

Latest on Novosti:-

Some, including the Frog President, are concerned that Israel's move to terminate Gaza City as the last stronghold of Hamas risks 'plunging the entire region into permanent war'.

Bit late...  Israel has to terminate Hamas forever... for those Gazans crying about it now - what did you do when those scumbags dragged those women behind bikes or raped them to death and all the other things?  Cheered and danced in the streets ...