What does it even mean?

More of a weasel word than anything deep and meaningful.

People learn to tolerate traffic in the morning.

They learn to tolerate missing the green light.

They learn to tolerate McDonald's coffee in the absence of anything better at 6:00 AM.

Start using it to refer to tolerating foreign ethnicity in the community, or physical/ psychological disability in the workplace.. or ugliness, and it cheapens the effort to tolerating crows faaarking at the crack of dawn.

Is forebearance a better word?

Does it have enough high-falutin' je-ne-sais-quoi for the act of accepting foreign ethnicity, disability and ugliness in our midst?

Someone texted me the other day that they walked into an organisation, to be greeted at the door by a transgender who directed him to the service desk managed by a dwarf.

'Times sure have changed, ' he added, 'there was a time when one of them would be standing outside a porn shop and the other would be chasing clowns at a circus.'

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 16^th, 2025 at 10:48am:

Someone texted me the other day that they walked into an organisation, to be greeted at the door by a transgender who directed him to the service desk managed by a dwarf. 'Times sure have changed, ' he added, 'there was a time when one of them would be standing outside a porn shop and the other would be chasing clowns at a circus.'

;D How droll

"Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance.
If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."
- Karl Popper


"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil."
- Thomas Mann


"Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good."
- Charles J. Chaput


.


Being tolerant of what the ungodly tolerate,
is not a Christian virtue.


James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
...
8  Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.


1 John 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world.
If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.


Amos 5:4
For thus saith the LORD unto the house of Israel,
Seek ye me, and ye shall live:

KJV
Isaiah 26:10
Let favour be shewed to the wicked,
yet will he not learn righteousness:
in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly,
and will not behold the majesty of the LORD.

Gnads wrote on Jul 16^th, 2025 at 11:00am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 16th, 2025 at 10:48am: Someone texted me the other day that they walked into an organisation, to be greeted at the door by a transgender who directed him to the service desk managed by a dwarf. 'Times sure have changed, ' he added, 'there was a time when one of them would be standing outside a porn shop and the other would be chasing clowns at a circus.' ;D How droll

Yep... never seen a dwarf at a porn shop... might have been a Queensland thing.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 16^th, 2025 at 11:11am:

Gnads wrote on Jul 16th, 2025 at 11:00am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 16th, 2025 at 10:48am: Someone texted me the other day that they walked into an organisation, to be greeted at the door by a transgender who directed him to the service desk managed by a dwarf. 'Times sure have changed, ' he added, 'there was a time when one of them would be standing outside a porn shop and the other would be chasing clowns at a circus.' ;D How droll Yep... never seen a dwarf at a porn shop... might have been a Queensland thing.

Nah ... NSW or Vic maybe.

Tolerance is good to increase ones life experiences.

Intolerant people will accept nothing new.

Gnads wrote on Jul 16^th, 2025 at 11:30am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 16th, 2025 at 11:11am: Gnads wrote on Jul 16th, 2025 at 11:00am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 16th, 2025 at 10:48am: Someone texted me the other day that they walked into an organisation, to be greeted at the door by a transgender who directed him to the service desk managed by a dwarf. 'Times sure have changed, ' he added, 'there was a time when one of them would be standing outside a porn shop and the other would be chasing clowns at a circus.' ;D How droll Yep... never seen a dwarf at a porn shop... might have been a Queensland thing. Nah ... NSW or Vic maybe.

Definitely NSW. His nickname was Yoda.
...oops

Interesting topic.
I think more in terms of " boundaries"
And I think of myself as an entity
Entities like a house or an awesome party or a business.

Then what should you " tolerate"?


If you were an awesome party would you allow in " complainers and scalds and sooks "
No
So they have to be ruthlessly eliminated from your reality.

If you were a house would you allow termites and rodents in.
Would you neglect maintenance ?
No.
So you don't let in drugs or alcohol to ruin your brain
You don't allow in big mac's and coca cola to weaken the structure.
You do good maintenance by hitting the gym, staying fit, working on your skills.

If you see yourself as a business would you allow bludging, watching Netflix when there is work to be done.
No
So you don't tolerate this in your colleagues and especially in yourself  :)

aquascoot wrote on Jul 16^th, 2025 at 5:56pm:

So you don't tolerate this in your colleagues and especially in yourself

What does tolerance, or maybe a better word, forbearance, mean for you?

A schoolgirl was forcibly removed, told to remover her attire, sent home and suspended from the School's DIVERSITY (fashion) day in Great Britain.
Students wore burkhas and other national and cultural attires.

But can you guess what the suspended girl wore to school?

It was a Union Jack dress (& a bit more conservative than Ginger Spice's).

That's right. She was removed and punished for wearing her nations Union Jack.

Now if Woke Leftism isn't pure evil in its bigotry, self loathing, hypocrisy and selective Racism. I don't know what is.
They are evil, because they feel guilty and evil. They hang their heads in shame and expect everyone else should do the same.

It has come to this. The enemy is at the gates and the enemy within us, is opening the gates for them.

The term itself is wrong when applied to humanity's diversity.

It's too tied to things and events, like traffic, or crows in the morning... and to its opposite - intolerance, such that it allows a paradox - intolerant of intolerance.

I think maybe have tolerance for things and events... have forbearance for human diversity.

Tolerance has limits, like everything. I see no need to tolerate the intolerant who would tell me I cannot express an opinion, read a certain book or criticise anything I disagree with.   

Jasin wrote on Jul 16^th, 2025 at 6:14pm:

That's right. She was removed and punished for wearing her nations Union Jack.

Poms and their endless overt grovelling apology for their empire... behind closed doors, they mourn its loss.

Behind the closed door of No. 10, they do whatever they can to reimpose it in the way the Greeks did within the Roman Empire.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 16^th, 2025 at 6:19pm:

Jasin wrote on Jul 16th, 2025 at 6:14pm: That's right. She was removed and punished for wearing her nations Union Jack. Poms and their endless overt grovelling apology for their empire... behind closed doors, they mourn its loss. Behind the closed door of No. 10, they do whatever they can to reimpose it in the way the Greeks did within the Roman Empire.

No they don't.
The Germs did, the French are doing and the Italians & Greeks will do - all on behalf of their glorious Rome/Athenian past.
Great Britain jilts that and follows what it's Commonwealth, colonies, etc show it as the true path to follow.

Jasin wrote on Jul 16^th, 2025 at 6:25pm:

No they don't. The Germs did, the French are doing and the Italians & Greeks will do - all on behalf of their glorious Rome/Athenian past. Great Britain jilts that and follows what it's Commonwealth, colonies, etc show it as the true path to follow.

Don't kid yourself... Or be fooled by the politeness, or the grovelling.

The British establishment does not see itself as an equal to Indian, Australian, Canadian and all other Commonwealth establishments... not even to the US.

It sees itself as superior to all combined.

It created the modern Western world... don't think it's forgotten it.

It's why the British monarchy survives so well.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 16^th, 2025 at 6:31pm:

It's why the British monarchy survives so well.

Pipped only by the Papacy in continuous world influence, not seen since Rome.

Are you saying you can't tell the difference between real Westernism (politics) and Archaic Westernism founded by Rome & Athens?

Unlike Germany, France, Italy & Greece who eat from the tree of knowledge and sacrifice their colonies (take Noumea currently for example) in favour of their self preservation in Europe, which results in the failure of (politics) Westernism for them anyway.
Compared to Great Britain, who is sacrificing it's empowerment and superiority with each stage, on behalf of its Colonies (children)/Commonwealth and in the end, will die completely in Europe for it. True Westernism.

As for the monarchy, that's the United KINGDOM side of the country, which (like George with the Germans and now Charles with the French) is best related to Eurovision and will betray Great (Political) Britain in the end.

Any superiority that Great Britain still holds, is like a proud parent.

But hey, the Left succeed in Europe, Asia (China adores Albo ;)),Africa & Oceania.
The Right succeed in N.America, S.America, Middle-East and here in Sahul... just because the Left have power here, doesn't mean they are succeeding. Just like Politics has power in France, but it's not succeeding is it?

Great Britain will die. But it will be reborn in N.America as it fades into 'the West's leaving Rome & Athens as nothing more than political ruins for archeologists and tourists in Musical Europe.

Jasin wrote on Jul 16^th, 2025 at 6:50pm:

Are you saying you can't tell the difference between real Westernism (politics) and Archaic Westernism founded by Rome & Athens?

I'm saying the influence of the British Empire's memory will endure for hundreds of years, as Rome did.

The world speaks the language of the empire - it's the world's only true lingua franca, many times over greater than Latin and Greek were at their height.

Its parliamentary democracy is the standard model upon which all modern democracies are based.

Its monarchy has morphed from its medieval incarnation to its modern incarnation as s quasi-religious institution equal to that of the Vatican and the Pope.

Its cumulative knowledge of how the modern world was founded and how it's run is stored in its institutions and handed down from establishment father/ mother to son, and now daughter.

Close. The United Kingdom monarchy, as will all European Royalties, will reclaim Europe, but via the Music &Entertainment industry with Italian-Greco royalty being the dominant and the UK becoming one of the weakest.
Religion, like the Vatican, is losing its oppression over Europe. Christian Germany has failed. Christian France will soon burn like a Notre Dame cathedral and the Vatican (with the Mafia in political power), will covet it's Gold over God like a dragon sickness. Christianity will fail there too and Religion in Europe will fall back to the Middle-East from where it came.
Great Britain, the last Christian power, will die carrying its cross to the Middle-East to Unite both Islam & Israel.
But unlike Germany, France and Italy/Greece. Great Britain doesn't break into an evil failure of violence. It chooses peace, to die by and unite Islam & Israel.

...thus, it will be reborn in N.America like a resurrection.

Even now, you can feel the Union Jack and politics leaving us here and slowly re-emerging in N.America as it was meant to be.
Archaic Westernism, which has long kept America like a usurper, will fail there like a mistake made, but redemption in the end. But it won't take hold here. America is the precedence, we learn from.  Political Leftism won't succeed here. Music wise, yes. Politically no.

Jasin wrote on Jul 16^th, 2025 at 7:25pm:

Close.

No, I'm bang on.

Knowing how to rule and run the modern world is a multi-generational thing, requiring as few political models as possible...

It's not something, say, the Chinese could achieve any time in the next 100 years or so, even with their currently powerful, dominant economy.

Next, India. In all its thousands of years of history, it has never politically dominated anywhere, nor have Indic peoples shown any interest in doing so beyond the subcontinent, even if its cultural influence reached Southeast Asia. It'democratic political institutions are, of course, a carbon copy of the British Westminister system.

Russia? Forgeddaboudit...

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 16^th, 2025 at 7:40pm:

Jasin wrote on Jul 16th, 2025 at 7:25pm: Close. No, I'm bang on. Knowing how to rule and run the modern world is a multi-generational thing, requiring as few political models as possible... It's not something, say, the Chinese could achieve any time in the next 100 years or so, even with their currently powerful, dominant economy. Next, India. In all its thousands of years of history, it has never politically dominated anywhere, nor have Indic peoples shown any interest in doing so beyond the subcontinent, even if its cultural influence reached Southeast Asia. It'democratic political institutions are, of course, a carbon copy of the British Westminister system. Russia? Forgeddaboudit...

Two words for you:

Demographic transformation.


There has NEVER been such large scale people movement in such short a time as in the last 40-50 years.  So nodding to history here is irrelevant.

Listen Meister. Take it from me. When it comes to cultural power (racial minority). The regions are destined to be as follows (as by the golden rule of equality).
N.America: Politics (British western, not Rome/Athens -Media western)
Asia: Mathematics
Mid-East: Military
Europe: Music
Africa: Sport
Sahul: Art ( ;))
Oceania: Medicine
S.America: Religion

...Antarctica: "Shhh. That's a secret ;))

We're still a fair way to go. But we'll get there, well beyond more world wars of adjustment to it and pandemics to evolve us to it.

Trust me. I am the Master and here in Day Ahead (of the West), time is an illusion, as was the space to cross to discover the Americas.

While Huxley's vision of the future is more likely to beat out Orwell's, where Huxley gets it wrong is that his imaginary society is not necessarily a dystopia.

What do poverty-stricken people think of our luxurious Australian life? Do they think it's a hellscape of escapism and emptiness, I wonder. I'd bet not... Millions of them would get into leaky boats to join us in our 'dystopia', given a guarantee of welcome.

Do we feel we're living in a dystopia given the alternatives in other parts of the world?

For most of our history, we Australians have been living in a Huxleyesque world, minus the dystopia, and the water's fine.

Huxley & Orwell. They're good. But only good for one to two regions. Their failure to incorporate the others as a whole, leaves them flawed, even for just the two to one regionalism they comment on.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 16^th, 2025 at 8:12pm:

While Huxley's vision of the future is more likely to beat out Orwell's, where Huxley gets it wrong is that his imaginary society is not necessarily a dystopia. What do poverty-stricken people think of our luxurious Australian life? Do they think it's a hellscape of escapism and emptiness, I wonder. I'd bet not... Millions of them would get into leaky boats to join us in our 'dystopia', given a guarantee of welcome. Do we feel we're living in a dystopia given the alternatives in other parts of the world? For most of our history, we Australians have been living in a Huxleyesque world, minus the dystopia, and the water's fine.

You are stuck in 1930s thinking.

Frank wrote on Jul 16^th, 2025 at 7:53pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 16th, 2025 at 7:40pm: Jasin wrote on Jul 16th, 2025 at 7:25pm: Close. No, I'm bang on. Knowing how to rule and run the modern world is a multi-generational thing, requiring as few political models as possible... It's not something, say, the Chinese could achieve any time in the next 100 years or so, even with their currently powerful, dominant economy. Next, India. In all its thousands of years of history, it has never politically dominated anywhere, nor have Indic peoples shown any interest in doing so beyond the subcontinent, even if its cultural influence reached Southeast Asia. It'democratic political institutions are, of course, a carbon copy of the British Westminister system. Russia? Forgeddaboudit... Two words for you: Demographic transformation. There has NEVER been such large scale people movement in such short a time as in the last 40-50 years.  So nodding to history here is irrelevant.

What are your data points, from a percentage of population or gross numbers? Perhaps you mean wide scale rather than large scale?

Setanta wrote on Jul 16^th, 2025 at 9:10pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 16th, 2025 at 7:53pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 16th, 2025 at 7:40pm: Jasin wrote on Jul 16th, 2025 at 7:25pm: Close. No, I'm bang on. Knowing how to rule and run the modern world is a multi-generational thing, requiring as few political models as possible... It's not something, say, the Chinese could achieve any time in the next 100 years or so, even with their currently powerful, dominant economy. Next, India. In all its thousands of years of history, it has never politically dominated anywhere, nor have Indic peoples shown any interest in doing so beyond the subcontinent, even if its cultural influence reached Southeast Asia. It'democratic political institutions are, of course, a carbon copy of the British Westminister system. Russia? Forgeddaboudit... Two words for you: Demographic transformation. There has NEVER been such large scale people movement in such short a time as in the last 40-50 years.  So nodding to history here is irrelevant. What are your data points, from a percentage of population or gross numbers? Perhaps you mean wide scale rather than large scale?

Air travel was a luxury 50-60 years ago. Now anyone can fly across the world for $1500.

Tolerance? Something I had been for too long.
So many of my gen were too polite. Too tolerant, too easily taken for a ride.
We were brought up by the silent frugal generation. Kids were meant to be seen and not heard.
It takes years to undo that stuff.
I’ve found a better voice for opinions  in my latter years. My daughter recently said she used to be embarrassed when I was vocal about stuff with others but now she says good on me  :)
She needed to be vocal with a vet recently and wasn’t and crap happened that she was so angry with herself not saying something…. I said to her… you say it once to strike while the iron is hot… saves you having to talk thrice later to rectify it all.

She says she kept quiet assuming they would know better…. I said… ah huh… assumptions are the cause of 99% f… ups!
Best to clear the air and ask a million questions ….  ::)

https://thepersimmongroup.com/three-reasons-we-make-assumptions-and-what-to-do-about-them/

None of which obscures the flaws that run deep in this society/culture - starting at the very top with the delusion of some form of control over the people rather than serving the nation, and running all the way down to people long over-ridden continuing to demand a return to their primitive ideas and being given rule over the country.

And none of this justifies or validates the strange idea that Australia should be wide open to mass immigration that is altering our society/culture beyond all recognition while the country is in a position where it cannot 'feed' its own adequately in terms of homing, standards of living, costs of living, and legal and social and economic rights ... and while its economic position is quite literally falling through the floor .... this is fascism at its very lowest from government, and nowhere more clearly proven than by that 'government' over-ruling and ignoring the will of the people in a vote.

Fascism from the befuddled Extreme Left is no less dangerous than Fascism from the befuddled Extreme Right... any attempt to dominate and control the People from a small, specially selected, centralised government is the same no matter which 'side' it comes from ... and again - women, due to their different approach to life themes, something which to date has NOT shown any real and substantive change in our governance but only more of the same as the Beta Men (The Hollow Men) in government - and due to their near lack of experience in reality, attached to the Princess Diarrhoea of assuming they are somehow special all the time ... which, of course, is proven by their 'success' under a regime of absolute preference and privilege for them (LMAO) starting in pre-school ...................... are NOT suitable to run a country like ours.

The Pussy Pass has gone on for far too long and it's time for renewal of sense and reason and fairness.

I think Mark Geyer was very tolerant of Wally Lewis's spray when they were both sent to the sin bin.
Wally was lucky not to get a flurry of uppercuts, while too short to reach Geyer's head in return, during State of Origin. ;D

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 16^th, 2025 at 8:12pm:

While Huxley's vision of the future is more likely to beat out Orwell's, where Huxley gets it wrong is that his imaginary society is not necessarily a dystopia. What do poverty-stricken people think of our luxurious Australian life? Do they think it's a hellscape of escapism and emptiness, I wonder. I'd bet not... Millions of them would get into leaky boats to join us in our 'dystopia', given a guarantee of welcome. Do we feel we're living in a dystopia given the alternatives in other parts of the world? For most of our history, we Australians have been living in a Huxleyesque world, minus the dystopia, and the water's fine.

Hurley's vision seems the correct one.
People love the path of least resistance
They value comfort and safety over freedom.
And thinking for yourself burns mental capital.
So it's anti evolution.
People historically understood that when they were lost or needed to hunt or to cook or to make a fire, the guy who was most confident in how to navigate or hunt or cook or make a fire was the guy to defer to.

This is of course the winner effect.
When you are competant, your voice becomes clear. Your pupils dilate you have charisma, people fall into your frame.

A 6 yo showing adults how to solve a Rubik's cube will speak clearly and charismaticslly and hold attention and display the winner effect and because we are lazy we just follow and believe.

Trump is the example par excellence of this evolutionary bias.

Act confident. Believe in yourself, strong voice and people who don't want to burn resources thinking fall into your frame.

It's a smart move.


The daily lectures in covid by people like Dan saying
We've got this. You're safe, trust me this all ends when we get the jab.

Mentally lazy people just say. " well He seems to be the guy to follow".


Leaders in government and business all do it
And the sheep will all follow.


And what's really interesting is if you call out any of the sheep for not taking personal responsibility for their thinking  they get super mad.


People just love that laziness and safety.
It will be their undoing but they can't be reached

Tolerance isn't the word you're looking for. I know you're all excited and stuff but you've arrives at a spectacularly stupid proposition.

Sure we tolerate things. We tolerate our neighbours mowing on a Sunday morning. We tolerate substitutions in our shopping orders. We tolerate our partners being ridiculous for whatever reason or our children waking u up too early and breaking all out stuff.

We tolerate huge amounts of things on a daily basis, as humans living in a society and in intimate familial groups. We all do. Expecting one to be tolerant is really not a big ask.

I have at no point in my life however tolerated another human being for being solely what they are are. I have tolerated behaviour and language. I have tolerated impropriety and body odour. I have tolerated many strange birds in my time but have ne inclination to apply that word to what another person simply is.

I think the word that's got all your panties in a bunch is intolerance.

To be fair, i think that was always pretty clear and this thread is hilarious. But onwards and upwards.

What doe intolerance mean? What does it conjure up?

Different conversation, eh what.

mothra wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 6:09am:

Tolerance isn't the word you're looking for. I know you're all excited and stuff but you've arrives at a spectacularly stupid proposition. What doe intolerance mean? What does it conjure up? Different conversation, eh what.

Taking out your reiteration of the OP's point...

Intolerance is the flipside of the same conversation.

Yes, the term is hackneyed, trite and often misused as a stand-in for other states like timidity/ passivity, or more complex mind states like having resilience or depth.

And, yes, it lends itself too easily to its opposite - intolerance, which, in its turn, is cynically abused, as in 'intolerance of intolerance' to sanctify the thrill felt when imagining, metaphorically, smashing someone in the face with a spade as a reprisal for their 'moral turpitude'.

A term like forbearance does not lend itself to its opposite, and, when associated with patience, in the way the term is respected in eastern cultures, you pop out the other end with 'patient forbearance' - something, I suspect, good mothers have in spades.

aquascoot wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 5:22am:

Trump is the example par excellence of this evolutionary bias. Act confident. Believe in yourself, strong voice and people who don't want to burn resources thinking fall into your frame.

I get your point on confidence, but it's 2-dimensional.

There's a difference between confidence and over-confidence, or arrogance, or cynical exploitation.

;D

Tolerance is good for peace of mind Meister. It makes you less angry.

Of course, some things should make you angry.

freediver wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 8:52am:

Tolerance is good for peace of mind Meister. It makes you less angry.

Is it?

Tolerance can imply a loading, as some of the posters here have articulated... The film 'Falling Down' explores what happens when the cumulative load of tolerance reaches a critical mass.

'How much can a koala bear?'

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 7:07am:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 5:22am: Trump is the example par excellence of this evolutionary bias. Act confident. Believe in yourself, strong voice and people who don't want to burn resources thinking fall into your frame. I get your point on confidence, but it's 2-dimensional. There's a difference between confidence and over-confidence, or arrogance, or cynical exploitation.

There is indeed.
Same goes for a celebrity endorsing coca cola or Dan Andrews giving the lock down speech
To someone with critical thinking, you won't tolerate it because you see it's BS.

Most of what Trump says is BS.

But the masses are unthinking.

That's the point.
When you are beaten down. Eat junk smoke pot don't exercise
Bounce out of bed and are  just trying to cope with life.
You are NOT going to be thinking.
You are derping

And when someone from Trump to Andrews to coca cola to Temu tell you a lie but tell it with swagger , you just believe it.


It's why big business , governments and losers HATE  the personal development and self help industries.

It's one less derper for them to sell to

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 8:57am:

freediver wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 8:52am: Tolerance is good for peace of mind Meister. It makes you less angry. Is it? Tolerance can imply a loading, as some of the posters here have articulated... The film 'Falling Down' explores what happens when the cumulative load of tolerance reaches a critical mass. 'How much can a koala bear?'

People can bear quite a lot. It takes a fragile man to Fall Down like that, which is why they so rarely do. The world was not always as peaceful and just as your world is right now.

aquascoot wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 8:58am:

Most of what Trump says is BS. But the masses are unthinking. That's the point. When you are beaten down. Eat junk smoke pot don't exercise Bounce out of bed and are  just trying to cope with life. You are NOT going to be thinking. You are derping And when someone from Trump to Andrews to coca cola to Temu tell you a lie but tell it with swagger , you just believe it.

So Trump's a P.T. Barnum with power, then.

freediver wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 9:02am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 8:57am: freediver wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 8:52am: Tolerance is good for peace of mind Meister. It makes you less angry. Is it? Tolerance can imply a loading, as some of the posters here have articulated... The film 'Falling Down' explores what happens when the cumulative load of tolerance reaches a critical mass. 'How much can a koala bear?' People can bear quite a lot. It takes a fragile man to Fall Down like that, which is why they so rarely do. The world was not always as peaceful and just as your world is right now.

Sure, very few are as overloaded as 'Falling Down's' William 'D-Fens' Foster.

The term's hackneyed overuse means it does not do justice to the concept of accepting ethnic/social/cultural/religious difference.

Tolerance is a stand-in for so many mind states, implies a load on the psyche, and can flip on a dime into intolerance, even if cynically, as in 'intolerance of intolerance'.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 16^th, 2025 at 6:19pm:

Jasin wrote on Jul 16th, 2025 at 6:14pm: That's right. She was removed and punished for wearing her nations Union Jack. Poms and their endless overt grovelling apology for their empire... behind closed doors, they mourn its loss. Behind the closed door of No. 10, they do whatever they can to reimpose it in the way the Greeks did within the Roman Empire.

Garbage.
Everyone elses culture except anglo ey?

Jasin wrote on Jul 16^th, 2025 at 10:37pm:

I think Mark Geyer was very tolerant of Wally Lewis's spray when they were both sent to the sin bin. Wally was lucky not to get a flurry of uppercuts, while too short to reach Geyer's head in return, during State of Origin. ;D

;D Geyer wasn't sure if he could take him - nothing to do with luck.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 9:02am:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 8:58am: Most of what Trump says is BS. But the masses are unthinking. That's the point. When you are beaten down. Eat junk smoke pot don't exercise Bounce out of bed and are  just trying to cope with life. You are NOT going to be thinking. You are derping And when someone from Trump to Andrews to coca cola to Temu tell you a lie but tell it with swagger , you just believe it. So Trump's a P.T. Barnum with power, then.

Trump is exploiting the cultural hypnosis .

I don't think Michael Jordan won 5 NBA rings by eating big macs or wearing Nike pumps but the sheep in the cultural hypnosis are happy to walk like zombies into Mecca's.

In the same way Trump understands marketing, the winner effect and is exploiting the cultural hypnosis.

He didn't create it.

He is winning the game because he understands the current psychological state of the sheep.

Gavin newsome has a different flock and he understands their cultural hypnosis.

Rather then get mad at Trump or newsome or Michael Jordan or the kardashians, people need to study Dan Kennedy and read marketing books.

But I guess it's just easier  to watch Netflix and stay in the durr state

Quote:

I don't think Michael Jordan won 5 NBA rings by eating big macs

https://www.si.com/fannation/backinthedaynba/michael-jordan-had-addiction-to-fast-food-restaurant-during-early-playing-days-01j7gg12gvxe


Quote:

Apparently, Jordan wasn't only selling Egg McMuffins. He was eating them. Lot of them. During an appearance on the All The Smoke podcast, Bulls teammate Charles Oakley gave an inside look at Jordan's eating habits. "We ate a lot of McDonald's back then," Oakley said. "MJ ate McDonald's every morning for breakfast. Every morning. "

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 16^th, 2025 at 9:00am:

What does it even mean? More of a weasel word than anything deep and meaningful. People learn to tolerate traffic in the morning. They learn to tolerate missing the green light. They learn to tolerate McDonald's coffee in the absence of anything better at 6:00 AM. Start using it to refer to tolerating foreign ethnicity in the community, or physical/ psychological disability in the workplace.. or ugliness, and it cheapens the effort to tolerating crows faaarking at the crack of dawn. Is forebearance a better word? Does it have enough high-falutin' je-ne-sais-quoi for the act of accepting foreign ethnicity, disability and ugliness in our midst?

In an essay called “The Self-Poisoning of the Open Society,” Kolakowski dilates on this basic antinomy of liberalism. Liberalism implies openness to other points of view, even (it would seem) those points of view whose success would destroy liberalism. But tolerance to those points of view is a prescription for suicide. Intolerance betrays the fundamental premise of liberalism, i.e., openness. As Robert Frost once put it, a liberal is someone who refuses to take his own part in an argument.

Kolakowski is surely right that our liberal, pluralist democracy depends for its survival not only on the continued existence of its institutions, but also “on a belief in their value and a widespread will to defend them.” The question is: Do we, as a society, still enjoy that belief? Do we possess the requisite will? Or was François Revel right when he said that “Democratic civilization is the first in history to blame itself because another power is trying to destroy it”?

..
The “openness” or tlerance that liberal society rightly cherishes is not a vacuous openness to all points of view: it is not “value neutral.” It need not, indeed it cannot, say Yes to all comers, to the Islamofascist who after all has his point of view, just as much as the soccer mom, who has hers. American democracy, for example, affords its citizens great latitude, but great latitude is not synonymous with the proposition that “anything goes.”
https://newcriterion.com/article/after-the-suicide-of-the-west/


Tolerance is not value-neutral.  It is not 'phobic' to oppose and resist certain views, values and practices.
Not tolerating certain views and practices that are antithetical to a humane, enlightened society is not itself intolerance. It is an intellectiual, political immune system An immune system that does not detect and protect against destructive incursioins is defective.
A pseudo-liberal outlook that does not detect and protect against destructive incursiions of ideology is likewise a defective, suicidal outlook.

Gnads wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 10:20am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 16th, 2025 at 6:19pm: Jasin wrote on Jul 16th, 2025 at 6:14pm: That's right. She was removed and punished for wearing her nations Union Jack. Poms and their endless overt grovelling apology for their empire... behind closed doors, they mourn its loss. Behind the closed door of No. 10, they do whatever they can to reimpose it in the way the Greeks did within the Roman Empire. Garbage. Everyone elses culture except anglo ey?

Not too many other cultures have a former empire to grovel over or to try to perpetuate the legacy of.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 11:56am:

Gnads wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 10:20am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 16th, 2025 at 6:19pm: Jasin wrote on Jul 16th, 2025 at 6:14pm: That's right. She was removed and punished for wearing her nations Union Jack. Poms and their endless overt grovelling apology for their empire... behind closed doors, they mourn its loss. Behind the closed door of No. 10, they do whatever they can to reimpose it in the way the Greeks did within the Roman Empire. Garbage. Everyone elses culture except anglo ey? Not too many other cultures have a former empire to grovel over or to try to perpetuate the legacy of.

Nonsense.

Every culture is expansionist.
Some are just more competent than others.

The British Empire was in competition with other European empires, especially the French, Spanish and Dutch and later the Germans and Russians.

China is an empire. Latin America is a Spanish and Portugese legacy, North America British, Spanish, French. Indo-China is a French legacy, Indonesia Dutch. Africa is a mix of precolonial African empires and various European colonial influences.
The entire world is shaped by European, not just British, expansion.

Quote:

Every culture is expansionist.

You are conflating culture with empire. Not the same thing at all.

freediver wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 12:34pm:

Quote: Every culture is expansionist. You are conflating culture with empire. Not the same thing at all.

You can't separate them.

https://youtu.be/flFxqidBeSU?si=p8SRiI9fMjFkTpEP

Frank wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 12:33pm:

The entire world is shaped by European, not just British, expansion.

Yes, but no other European power publicly grovels in abject apology for its empire, while at the same time, within its centre of governance, plots to resurrect its supremacy.

I get knocked down, but I get up again...

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 12:39pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 12:33pm: The entire world is shaped by European, not just British, expansion. Yes, but no other European power publicly grovels in abject apology for its empire, while at the same time, within its centre of governance, plots to resurrect its supremacy. I get knocked down, but I get up again...

Well, the tinted chappies across the world are constantly demanding an apology for the civilising effects of the British Empire, from Aborigines through Indians, Arabs and Africans.

British culture, more self-reflecting and self-critical than most, has taught them the method of thinking which they have deployed for decades to flagellate Britain for giving them railways, sanitation, education, rule of law and proper forms of self-government.

You step on someone toes in England and he will say sorry. Not so in Paris, Rome or Madrid.

Frank wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 1:05pm:

You step on someone toes in England and he will say sorry. Not so in Paris, Rome or Madrid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bIOPVgnKUs

freediver wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 10:46am:

Quote: I don't think Michael Jordan won 5 NBA rings by eating big macs https://www.si.com/fannation/backinthedaynba/michael-jordan-had-addiction-to-fast-food-restaurant-during-early-playing-days-01j7gg12gvxe [quote]Apparently, Jordan wasn't only selling Egg McMuffins. He was eating them. Lot of them. During an appearance on the All The Smoke podcast, Bulls teammate Charles Oakley gave an inside look at Jordan's eating habits. "We ate a lot of McDonald's back then," Oakley said. "MJ ate McDonald's every morning for breakfast. Every morning. "

[/quote]



Do you think , therefore that elite athletes should do that as well?

Shashi Tharoor's suggestion of British reparations to India was rhetorically effective.

"Given that any amount reasonable would not be payable, and any amount payable would not be reasonable, I suggest one pound a year from the British government for the next 200 years, and an annual apology from the British monarch to the Indian people".

freediver wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 12:34pm:

Quote: Every culture is expansionist. You are conflating culture with empire. Not the same thing at all.

True.  Empire is a military thing and Emperors are their prime individual.
Kings, Masters of Ceremony (entertainers) make poor military leaders.

aquascoot wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 2:19pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 10:46am: Quote: I don't think Michael Jordan won 5 NBA rings by eating big macs https://www.si.com/fannation/backinthedaynba/michael-jordan-had-addiction-to-fast-food-restaurant-during-early-playing-days-01j7gg12gvxe [quote]Apparently, Jordan wasn't only selling Egg McMuffins. He was eating them. Lot of them. During an appearance on the All The Smoke podcast, Bulls teammate Charles Oakley gave an inside look at Jordan's eating habits. "We ate a lot of McDonald's back then," Oakley said. "MJ ate McDonald's every morning for breakfast. Every morning. "

Do you think , therefore that elite athletes should do that as well?
[/quote]

They can eat what they want. Maccas does you no harm if you burn off the energy. All that sugar is a good source of the energy you need to get you through a day of training.

Macca's is great for sea sickness.
Sits heavy in the stomach like an anchor ⚓ and stops the swell.

freediver wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 3:19pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 2:19pm: freediver wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 10:46am: Quote: I don't think Michael Jordan won 5 NBA rings by eating big macs https://www.si.com/fannation/backinthedaynba/michael-jordan-had-addiction-to-fast-food-restaurant-during-early-playing-days-01j7gg12gvxe [quote]Apparently, Jordan wasn't only selling Egg McMuffins. He was eating them. Lot of them. During an appearance on the All The Smoke podcast, Bulls teammate Charles Oakley gave an inside look at Jordan's eating habits. "We ate a lot of McDonald's back then," Oakley said. "MJ ate McDonald's every morning for breakfast. Every morning. " Do you think , therefore that elite athletes should do that as well?

They can eat what they want. Maccas does you no harm if you burn off the energy. All that sugar is a good source of the energy you need to get you through a day of training.[/quote]

You are stuck in the cultural hypnosis if you truly believe " maccas does you no harm "

Should we tolerate Mussos bringing their violence here, to be used against us?

I say, cull them.

Jasin wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 6:51pm:

Should we tolerate Mussos bringing their violence here, to be used against us? I say, cull them.

Millions more are on their way here -

thank Albo.

Bobby. wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 7:43pm:

Jasin wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 6:51pm: Should we tolerate Mussos bringing their violence here, to be used against us? I say, cull them. Millions more are on their way here - thank Albo.

Albo hu akbar?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 7:45pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 7:43pm: Jasin wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 6:51pm: Should we tolerate Mussos bringing their violence here, to be used against us? I say, cull them. Millions more are on their way here - thank Albo. Albo hu akbar?

It's Labor's big Australia policy that people voted for.

aquascoot wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 4:50pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 3:19pm: aquascoot wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 2:19pm: freediver wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 10:46am: Quote: I don't think Michael Jordan won 5 NBA rings by eating big macs https://www.si.com/fannation/backinthedaynba/michael-jordan-had-addiction-to-fast-food-restaurant-during-early-playing-days-01j7gg12gvxe [quote]Apparently, Jordan wasn't only selling Egg McMuffins. He was eating them. Lot of them. During an appearance on the All The Smoke podcast, Bulls teammate Charles Oakley gave an inside look at Jordan's eating habits. "We ate a lot of McDonald's back then," Oakley said. "MJ ate McDonald's every morning for breakfast. Every morning. " Do you think , therefore that elite athletes should do that as well? They can eat what they want. Maccas does you no harm if you burn off the energy. All that sugar is a good source of the energy you need to get you through a day of training.

You are stuck in the cultural hypnosis if you truly believe " maccas does you no harm "
[/quote]

Plenty of elite athletes eat maccas and other junk food. It's not poisonous.

freediver wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 8:17pm:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 4:50pm: freediver wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 3:19pm: aquascoot wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 2:19pm: freediver wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 10:46am: Quote: I don't think Michael Jordan won 5 NBA rings by eating big macs https://www.si.com/fannation/backinthedaynba/michael-jordan-had-addiction-to-fast-food-restaurant-during-early-playing-days-01j7gg12gvxe [quote]Apparently, Jordan wasn't only selling Egg McMuffins. He was eating them. Lot of them. During an appearance on the All The Smoke podcast, Bulls teammate Charles Oakley gave an inside look at Jordan's eating habits. "We ate a lot of McDonald's back then," Oakley said. "MJ ate McDonald's every morning for breakfast. Every morning. " Do you think , therefore that elite athletes should do that as well? They can eat what they want. Maccas does you no harm if you burn off the energy. All that sugar is a good source of the energy you need to get you through a day of training. You are stuck in the cultural hypnosis if you truly believe " maccas does you no harm "

Plenty of elite athletes eat maccas and other junk food.

It's not poisonous.


[/quote]

freediver,

Whoa, whoa, whoa !!

Because "Plenty of elite athletes eat maccas...."

Perhaps we need a [legislated] mandate,
for everyone to eat their [legislated] quota of Maccas,
because the current opinion of health 'experts' is that....
'Maccas are good for us!'  ?

.....because everyone knows.......'they are not poisonous.'

aquascoot wrote on Jul 17^th, 2025 at 10:31am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 9:02am: aquascoot wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 8:58am: Most of what Trump says is BS. But the masses are unthinking. That's the point. When you are beaten down. Eat junk smoke pot don't exercise Bounce out of bed and are  just trying to cope with life. You are NOT going to be thinking. You are derping And when someone from Trump to Andrews to coca cola to Temu tell you a lie but tell it with swagger , you just believe it. So Trump's a P.T. Barnum with power, then. Trump is exploiting the cultural hypnosis.

So, that's a Yes, then.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 18^th, 2025 at 7:44am:

aquascoot wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 10:31am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 9:02am: aquascoot wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 8:58am: Most of what Trump says is BS. But the masses are unthinking. That's the point. When you are beaten down. Eat junk smoke pot don't exercise Bounce out of bed and are  just trying to cope with life. You are NOT going to be thinking. You are derping And when someone from Trump to Andrews to coca cola to Temu tell you a lie but tell it with swagger , you just believe it. So Trump's a P.T. Barnum with power, then. Trump is exploiting the cultural hypnosis. So, that's a Yes, then.

Absolutely.

It's why he waited til 2016 to run
When the derp state had reached critical mass.


I noted it to.
When I talk to my farm neighbours or my kids friends, there was always an " aliveness" in the eyes.
Big Bambi eyes, joyful.

Around 2016 , probably 8 years into social media and scrolling, I would go to town , and the majority of people were gone.
Glazed over sad eyes, dead in the eyes.
A few drug dealers and hustlers had the shark eyes, predatory eyes.
But the majority were asleep
They were so beaten down by poor food, poor sleep, poor jobs, there were hypnotized.


Trump exploited it in 2016.
After the covid lockdowns drained the last ounce of personal agency from people, they were even more easily sucked into his " strong frame" by 2024.

It was a smart move, he knew what he was doing in terms of votes.
Doesn't seem to know what he's doing in terms of trade but he is keeping the Trump dynasty well rewarded and that was always the plan

It's good when a plan comes together.
It smells like

Victory  :)

aquascoot wrote on Jul 18^th, 2025 at 8:00am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 18th, 2025 at 7:44am: aquascoot wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 10:31am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 9:02am: aquascoot wrote on Jul 17th, 2025 at 8:58am: Most of what Trump says is BS. But the masses are unthinking. That's the point. When you are beaten down. Eat junk smoke pot don't exercise Bounce out of bed and are  just trying to cope with life. You are NOT going to be thinking. You are derping And when someone from Trump to Andrews to coca cola to Temu tell you a lie but tell it with swagger , you just believe it. So Trump's a P.T. Barnum with power, then. Trump is exploiting the cultural hypnosis. So, that's a Yes, then. Absolutely. It's why he waited til 2016 to run When the derp state had reached critical mass. I noted it to. When I talk to my farm neighbours or my kids friends, there was always an " aliveness" in the eyes. Big Bambi eyes, joyful. Around 2016 , probably 8 years into social media and scrolling, I would go to town , and the majority of people were gone. Glazed over sad eyes, dead in the eyes. A few drug dealers and hustlers had the shark eyes, predatory eyes. But the majority were asleep They were so beaten down by poor food, poor sleep, poor jobs, there were hypnotized. Trump exploited it in 2016. After the covid lockdowns drained the last ounce of personal agency from people, they were even more easily sucked into his " strong frame" by 2024. It was a smart move, he knew what he was doing in terms of votes. Doesn't seem to know what he's doing in terms of trade but he is keeping the Trump dynasty well rewarded and that was always the plan It's good when a plan comes together. It smells like Victory  :)

Well, they were living in rural Queensland, so...

Trump didn't exploit the down mood as much as he exploited idiocy - that for every complex problem, there's a blood-simple solution. He started with the 'problem' of a black fella in the White House... Reason? He was a foreigner... an interloper... an African infiltrator... Not a real American... if he were, he'd know he had no business being in the White House... He got those sister-smacking Appalachians' attention.

From there, he's peddled one conspiracy after another.

Appalachia is the best argument for legal abortion and an Appalachian one-child policy.