This is a risk raised by Yuval Noah Harari in his book that I am reading - 21 lessons for the 21st century. He does not provide a clear answer, but does highlight a fundamental difference with what has happened in the past. Until recently, machines replaced human labour, but not cognitive ability. Thus new jobs tended to be created as fast as old jobs were destroyed, and now fewer people (but still plenty) work in manual labour.

AI threatens to take a lot of jobs that are cognitive in nature, including the ones that require you to interact with people and perceive and respond to emotions. This happened decades ago to some extent with computers, which put roomfulls of accountants out of business, as well as plenty of draftsmen. AI threatens to add the ability to search for and interpret information and present it to people in plain language to those skills that get handed over to computers.

A deeper question is, does it matter? People who work in the most cognitively intense jobs, for example lawyers, doctors and engineers, these days often work absurd hours. If they could cut back from 50 hours a week to 25 hours a week, would that be such a bad thing - for them and for us?

These days, modern technology provides people in 3rd word countries with access to enormous quantities of medical information, as well as AI servants to interpret it for them. This could bring a revolution in medical care to them - at least for those aspects that do not require expensive machinery.

Also, will it stop people working as hard? In the west, people who do the more boring or manually intensive work tend to work shorter hours. They are more likely to stick to 40 hours a week. Professionals often work far longer, not because their kids are going hungry, if they even have any, and probably not because they are struggling to pay the mortgage (though plenty buy a house that is far in excess of what they need). Rather, it is because they are interested in their work, highly competitive, have no social life, and/or they are just plain greedy. Will the future be ruled by highly paid psychopaths?

To borrow Adam Curtis's term 'Oh Dearism', there is an element of catastrophisation of AI's effect on the workforce.

Did the same not happen at the advent of the Internet? Or the advent of the PC? Or computers? Or the automation of vehicle assembly? Or the automobile? etc... etc...?

Having said that, some technological revolutions did disrupt society so severely that they led to a redefinition of society itself, like the advent of the printing press, which led, not only to societal redefinition, but to 300+ years of war.

Is AI the printing press that will cause societal breakdown? Or is it the next step in seamless societal enhancement?

While oh dearists, of course, tend towards the former, and technonerds tend towards the latter, maybe holding at an Aristotelian mean is the best the rest of us can hope for when dealing with the certainty of future-anxiety.

Quote:

like the advent of the printing press, which led, not only to societal redefinition, but to 300+ years of war

How many centuries of peace did we have leading up to the invention of the printing press?

freediver wrote on Jul 12^th, 2025 at 12:06pm:

Quote: like the advent of the printing press, which led, not only to societal redefinition, but to 300+ years of war How many centuries of peace did we have leading up to the invention of the printing press?

I think 1422 was a good year... the kings were getting along and the harvests were good, as I remember...

Major technological advances can affect societies as much as religiocultural- and ethnocultural-chauvinism.

The inventions of the wheel, bronze, steel, paper and gunpowder would be up there with the printing press.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 12^th, 2025 at 12:13pm:

The inventions of the wheel, bronze, steel, paper and gunpowder would be up there with the printing press.

And writing, of course.

Interestingly, the Greeks, themselves, were once leery of writing... particularly the writing of their poems and plays as they believed not using memory alone, i.e. the oral tradition, would lead to the destruction of the mind.... Ancient Greek Oh Dearism.

I think Ai can certainly take fd's job ... repeating the same loaded questions over and over, whilst ignoring any answers it doesn't like, is basic stuff for modern AI

I haven't read that one of Noah's yet.

In the Old Worlds. Humankind endeavoured to evolve from the Caveman mascot of strong body, small primitive brain.

In the New Worlds (Age). It's going to be the reverse of trying not to evolve into the Alien 👽 mascot of big brain, weak fragile body.

The slaves if the future will be Mental slaves. No longer a physically hard evolution to rise out of, now a mentally complicated world not to fall into. Hence why all this 'mental health issues' from societies dependent on technology.

Life was physically hard, but mentally simpler in the old days.
Life will be mentally complicated, but physically easier in the new days to come.

The great prophet of the cricket stumps Glenn McGrath said. "Always bowl middle stump". Douglas Adams would have been proud of McGrath.

John Smith wrote on Jul 12^th, 2025 at 1:18pm:

I think Ai can certainly take fd's job ... repeating the same loaded questions over and over, whilst ignoring any answers it doesn't like, is basic stuff for modern AI

Says the troll who just posts the same crap time and time again ::)

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 12^th, 2025 at 1:15pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 12th, 2025 at 12:13pm: The inventions of the wheel, bronze, steel, paper and gunpowder would be up there with the printing press. And writing, of course. Interestingly, the Greeks, themselves, were once leery of writing... particularly the writing of their poems and plays as they believed not using memory alone, i.e. the oral tradition, would lead to the destruction of the mind.... Ancient Greek Oh Dearism.

Good input. I've heard the same, especially with machine gun digital cameras, that taking photos is for people who don't want to remember the moment, but just capture it and store it away, to be forgotten. I can confirm this myself, I still remember those visual moments that would have made great photos.
Take calculators too. Those who didn't have them at school had to do the work inside of their heads, while those that did, let the machine do the thinking for them. Obviously the old school students had that 'natural' affinity to work things out for themselves.

Jasin wrote on Jul 12^th, 2025 at 1:28pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 12th, 2025 at 1:15pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 12th, 2025 at 12:13pm: The inventions of the wheel, bronze, steel, paper and gunpowder would be up there with the printing press. And writing, of course. Interestingly, the Greeks, themselves, were once leery of writing... particularly the writing of their poems and plays as they believed not using memory alone, i.e. the oral tradition, would lead to the destruction of the mind.... Ancient Greek Oh Dearism. Good input. I've heard the same, especially with machine gun digital cameras, that taking photos is for people who don't want to remember the moment, but just capture it and store it away, to be forgotten. I can confirm this myself, I still remember those visual moments that would have made great photos. Take calculators too. Those who didn't have them at school had to do the work inside of their heads, while those that did, let the machine do the thinking for them. Obviously the old school students had that 'natural' affinity to work things out for themselves.

Dunno about taking photos because people can't be arsed remembering...

Old photos can trigger multiple and complex memories, as can having kids, which usually reminds parents of what it must have felt like to have once been kids themselves.

There used to be a lot of professional photographers and specialist photojournalists. Not many these days.

freediver wrote on Jul 12^th, 2025 at 2:34pm:

There used to be a lot of professional photographers and specialist photojournalists. Not many these days.

Yes, good point... Same with professional investigative journalism.

Curtis's oh dearism has now been democratised in the way he presaged... even if more fraudulent oh dearism than even he imagined.

Anyone's potentially a self-styled investigative journalist now... until they're held to account, that is... when they suddenly insist that they're 'only ordinary people asking questions'.

FD,

Quote:

Also, will it stop people working as hard?

It will mean more work for less people.

At work they got the accounting package called Microsoft 365 -
they then sacked heaps of accountants and other financial data input people
and those left were saddled with entering all the accounting work
related to their jobs.

I was already behind the 8 ball - overloaded with work and then
I had to find another 2 to 3 hours a week to use Microsoft 365.
I'm glad I got out of that company.
Guess what ? - every other company did the same
- they all do it now -
you sign up for one job and you end up doing 10 jobs.

My IT friends are always quick to remind me that massive job attrition has occurred in the IT industry as well.

What once required, often hundreds, of staff to run an average Information Services business in the '80s has now been whittled down to something like a couple of dozen, if that.

I’m obviously in a hands on role (literally -security) I don’t really need to concern myself about AI taking my job in my lifetime.

I do have a friend who was working in it and got a big trip to India all company paid for to train staff to replace his team in Australia.

It’s definitely difficult but look how many bank staff are now unemployed yet we pay more bank fees than ever!

The very simple solution to AI is don’t spend money with it!

Quote:

It’s definitely difficult but look how many bank staff are now unemployed yet we pay more bank fees than ever!

I don't pay any.

Daves2017 wrote on Jul 12^th, 2025 at 3:29pm:

It’s definitely difficult but look how many bank staff are now unemployed yet we pay more bank fees than ever!

Particularly with international bank transfers, where major banks will charge a usurious 3.5% fee on the exchange rate!! For what??!!

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 12^th, 2025 at 3:39pm:

Daves2017 wrote on Jul 12th, 2025 at 3:29pm: It’s definitely difficult but look how many bank staff are now unemployed yet we pay more bank fees than ever! Particularly with international bank transfers, where major banks will charge a usurious 3.5% fee on the exchange rate!! For what??!!

I got hung up on that one recently. I found 2 banks in Australia that do not do this for credit cards. Bendigo and Bankwest I think. No other fees either.

ME used to do it also, until they got bought out.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 12^th, 2025 at 2:32pm:

Jasin wrote on Jul 12th, 2025 at 1:28pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 12th, 2025 at 1:15pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 12th, 2025 at 12:13pm: The inventions of the wheel, bronze, steel, paper and gunpowder would be up there with the printing press. And writing, of course. Interestingly, the Greeks, themselves, were once leery of writing... particularly the writing of their poems and plays as they believed not using memory alone, i.e. the oral tradition, would lead to the destruction of the mind.... Ancient Greek Oh Dearism. Good input. I've heard the same, especially with machine gun digital cameras, that taking photos is for people who don't want to remember the moment, but just capture it and store it away, to be forgotten. I can confirm this myself, I still remember those visual moments that would have made great photos. Take calculators too. Those who didn't have them at school had to do the work inside of their heads, while those that did, let the machine do the thinking for them. Obviously the old school students had that 'natural' affinity to work things out for themselves. Dunno about taking photos because people can't be arsed remembering... Old photos can trigger multiple and complex memories, as can having kids, which usually reminds parents of what it must have felt like to have once been kids themselves.

Needing a photo to remember, let alone not fully absorbing the moment when it happened, is a step back in my view.
Diver photographer Bob Halstead (Bismarck islands, PNG) even said about the new digital tech. That it will dull a photographer's mind in looking for that perfect shot with that one shot only. The awareness is dulled.
The only real benefit of a photo is to share the moment to others, evidence and future generations.
Like drones, there is always a positive and negative impact.
So too with A.I. A lot of good, but also a lot of bad.

Hi Bobby. I walked away from Employers who, like sponges, wanted me to do more for 'their' income (once employed) than what I was hired and paid for. Some Companies advertise for jobs on a day shift (easier), to covertly try to convince those in hope of any employment, to work the harder nightshift that seems to lose employees. A bad Employer is one who has a lot of Staff turnover or Staff that have only been there less than 6 months. A lot of restaurants were like this.

Jasin wrote on Jul 12^th, 2025 at 6:08pm:

The only real benefit of a photo is to share the moment to others, evidence and future generations.

There's a paradox with memory... You can only remember anything that you 'remember to remember', otherwise there is no reason or stimulus to recall a past event/experience.

Things like sentimental items or recurring experiences, or events like becoming a parent, or looking at old photos/watching home movies, etc, stimulate the processing of remembering to remember without which the potential recalled memory would remain unrecalled.

Even psychiatry's 'talking cure' utilises the faculty of recall stimulation.

The 6th Sense is memory based.
It only works if you have experienced the moment and absorbed it fully so that it is recalled, if needed, when it matters.
In times of danger, people don't reach for their photo collection.

Jasin wrote on Jul 12^th, 2025 at 7:24pm:

The 6th Sense is memory based. It only works if you have experienced the moment and absorbed it fully so that it is recalled, if needed, when it matters. In times of danger, people don't reach for their photo collection.

Yes, well, you can only recall a memory of danger if you've already had the experience or something similar enough to trigger recall.

You might have seen videos of tsunamis where some people are standing on the beach watching as the tide recedes, not realising it is the buildup to a tsunami.

Also, with say, phobias, recall can be inappropriately triggered by benign events such as the sight of a large dog, where the person was once mauled by a large dog, and the memory is retrievable and relivable every time the person sees any large dog, regardless of the lack of immediate danger.

That's just Recall. Sixth sense comes into play, when you are confronting an element of an unknown situation unfamiliar in its potential, but memories associated or slightly connected come to aid in ones judgement.
Example. Snorkeling 🤿 off a Jervis Bay point. I noticed things got suddenly quiet. No crustaceans clicking and the little fishes that were around me, bolted. I didn't see the big female great white. But I knew she was there, so I got out.
Told my mate, who ignored my advice. Next weekend, he speared off that same point and Ms Whitey grabbed his fish line and took him for a 20m burn underwater before he unclipped.
It was a memory associated with knowledge, more wisdom, that alerted me to the change in my environment.

Sixth Sense is the ability to be aware to ones subconscious and what it has stored from experiences.

Anyway, I digress from the topic at hand.

Jasin wrote on Jul 12^th, 2025 at 10:16pm:

That's just Recall. Sixth sense comes into play, when you are confronting an element of an unknown situation unfamiliar in its potential, but memories associated or slightly connected come to aid in ones judgement. Example. Snorkeling 🤿 off a Jervis Bay point. I noticed things got suddenly quiet. No crustaceans clicking and the little fishes that were around me, bolted. I didn't see the big female great white. But I knew she was there, so I got out. Told my mate, who ignored my advice. Next weekend, he speared off that same point and Ms Whitey grabbed his fish line and took him for a 20m burn underwater before he unclipped. It was a memory associated with knowledge, more wisdom, that alerted me to the change in my environment. Sixth Sense is the ability to be aware to ones subconscious and what it has stored from experiences. Anyway, I digress from the topic at hand.

Yes, good point and valid in the context you're using the term, sixth sense - as the cumulative effect of multiple senses and memories of relevant/adjacent experiences..

It might take some jobs but not the ones that rely on accuracy.

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Jul 13^th, 2025 at 7:15pm:

It might take some jobs but not the ones that rely on accuracy.

Accuracy? Like stating pi to ten significant digits?

freediver wrote on Jul 14^th, 2025 at 9:47am:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Jul 13th, 2025 at 7:15pm: It might take some jobs but not the ones that rely on accuracy. Accuracy? Like stating pi to ten significant digits?

No, just getting simple questions right.
One can have lots of fun asking AI simple quesrions; but it can be a significant help in writing Uni essays.

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Jul 13^th, 2025 at 7:15pm:

It might take some jobs but not the ones that rely on accuracy.

Robotics took over vehicle assembly...

AI is set to take over long-haul land delivery of goods.

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Jul 14^th, 2025 at 5:52pm:

One can have lots of fun asking AI simple quesrions;

Yep, well, asking simple questions for AI is a rookie mistake.

Ask an IT professional about the complexity of questions they can ask AI, like:


Quote:

“I want you to help me with ???. Before you answer, ask me detailed questions to fully understand exactly what I am looking for. Ask one question at a time, wait for my response, and keep digging until you have enough context to give me the perfect solution.”

OR


Quote:

“Rewrite this (email, letter, CV, blog post, etc), but make it sound more natural - like a real person wrote it. Allow for 1-2 minor imperfections (for example, a common typo, and extra space in a sentence or no comma where it should be). Use the Australian English language. Avoid using dashes (-) where possible. Avoid sounding overly polished or robotic while keeping it conversational, warm, and professional.”

For long chats…


Quote:

“Please track the conversation length (as an ascii status bar and/or in %) and alert me when we reach 60% of the chat length limit and automatically create a detailed hand-off/hand-over message or prompt that I can use to start a new chat (include details of decisions made, steps taken so far, and possible next steps, so the new chat artifacts will be consistent).”

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 14^th, 2025 at 6:15pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Jul 14th, 2025 at 5:52pm: One can have lots of fun asking AI simple quesrions; Yep, well, asking simple questions for AI is a rookie mistake. Ask an IT professional about the complexity of questions they can ask AI, like: Quote: “I want you to help me with ???. Before you answer, ask me detailed questions to fully understand exactly what I am looking for. Ask one question at a time, wait for my response, and keep digging until you have enough context to give me the perfect solution.” OR [quote]“Rewrite this (email, letter, CV, blog post, etc), but make it sound more natural - like a real person wrote it. Allow for 1-2 minor imperfections (for example, a common typo, and extra space in a sentence or no comma where it should be). Use the Australian English language. Avoid using dashes (-) where possible. Avoid sounding overly polished or robotic while keeping it conversational, warm, and professional.”

For long chats…


Quote:

“Please track the conversation length (as an ascii status bar and/or in %) and alert me when we reach 60% of the chat length limit and automatically create a detailed hand-off/hand-over message or prompt that I can use to start a new chat (include details of decisions made, steps taken so far, and possible next steps, so the new chat artifacts will be consistent).”

[/quote]
Asking simple questions is never a mistake, it’s fun and each time one corrects the AI it regulates and comes up with a better answer, that’s part of the fun.

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Jul 15^th, 2025 at 5:08pm:

Asking simple questions is never a mistake, it’s fun and each time one corrects the AI it regulates and comes up with a better answer, that’s part of the fun.

Sure, if you're using AI as a toy and enjoy spending days training the AI.

IT professionals and others are using it as a substitute for professional and operational teams.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 15^th, 2025 at 5:32pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Jul 15th, 2025 at 5:08pm: Asking simple questions is never a mistake, it’s fun and each time one corrects the AI it regulates and comes up with a better answer, that’s part of the fun. Sure, if you're using AI as a toy and enjoy spending days training the AI. IT professionals and others are using it as a substitute for professional and operational teams.

And University students are using it in place of research, so AI will provide the means of those with more money than ability gaining degrees under false pretences.
I already know of one MBA, who has the ability to get the degree fair and square [so his top job is not in jeopardy] he just couldn’t be bothered doing the hard yards himself.