If you were on an average commercial street at night in your region and you saw a group of young people acting in an emotionally animated way - angry, disgusted, would you likely feel an instinctive ethnocultural recoil if:

The group differed from your own and was of general:

African ethnicity
Aboriginal ethnicity
Arab ethnicity
Asian ethnicity
European ethnicity
Indian (subcontinental) ethnicity
Polynesian ethnicity

And/or the group was identifiably:
Muslim
Sikh

I'm pretty sure the fact that they were angry about something would make you wary, regardless of race or age or religion. Maybe not gender.

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 9:38am:

I'm pretty sure the fact that they were angry about something would make you wary, regardless of race or age or religion. Maybe not gender.

That's likely. There'd also be the question of emotional degree and the degree of animation, etc...

But the question is, beyond that, would their ethnoculture and/or religion heighten that wariness?

Not sure. If they were Italian it might lessen it, as they always gesticulate in an animated manner. They are probably just discussing whether to get pasta or pizza for dinner. And Chinese people can sound like they are angry, when it is just a peculiar thing with the language.

As freediver noted, an angry mob of any race would make one wary, however this would probably be heightened if it was a non Australian mob (assuming the same level of agitation across each mob).    

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 10:58am:

Not sure. If they were Italian it might lessen it, as they always gesticulate in an animated manner. They are probably just discussing whether to get pasta or pizza for dinner. And Chinese people can sound like they are angry, when it is just a peculiar thing with the language.

Yes, if you're ethnicity is, broadly speaking, European, you're probably less likely to recoil based on the group's European ethnoculture...

And you're also probably more likely to rationalise and determine the cause of the emotional animation to be benign... which you did.

You also rationalised, broadly speaking, an Asian ethnicity in the same manner.

I think it is just Chinese, not asian more broadly. On second thought, they might actually be angry because they lost face. I kind of figured out that if you ask how much a trinket costs, they lose face if you walk away without buying it, but also if you end up buying it because they offer it at an absurdly low price. I even had on guy take my cash at the agreed price, then hold onto the item and demand a bit more. So I gave up because I didn't really want it and went to take my cash back, at which point he agreed and went through with the deal. But he was very animated about it. They lose face even if no-one is watching.

Anyway, things are simpler if you don't even look at the products on offer. They are worse than Mexicans, who at least have a sense of humour.

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 11:23am:

I think it is just Chinese, not asian more broadly. On second thought, they might actually be angry because they lost face. I kind of figured out that if you ask how much a trinket costs, they lose face if you walk away without buying it, but also if you end up buying it because they offer it at an absurdly low price. I even had on guy take my cash at the agreed price, then hold onto the item and demand a bit more. So I gave up because I didn't really want it and went to take my cash back, at which point he agreed and went through with the deal. But he was very animated about it. They lose face even if no-one is watching. Anyway, things are simpler if you don't even look at the products on offer. They are worse than Mexicans, who at least have a sense of humour.

So your rationalising continues regarding Chinese.

Face-saving features in all Southeast Asian cultures, as does bartering, in the way you describe.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 11:29am:

freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 11:23am: I think it is just Chinese, not asian more broadly. On second thought, they might actually be angry because they lost face. I kind of figured out that if you ask how much a trinket costs, they lose face if you walk away without buying it, but also if you end up buying it because they offer it at an absurdly low price. I even had on guy take my cash at the agreed price, then hold onto the item and demand a bit more. So I gave up because I didn't really want it and went to take my cash back, at which point he agreed and went through with the deal. But he was very animated about it. They lose face even if no-one is watching. Anyway, things are simpler if you don't even look at the products on offer. They are worse than Mexicans, who at least have a sense of humour. So your rationalising continues regarding Chinese. Face-saving features in all Southeast Asian cultures, as does bartering, in the way you describe.

It's called cross cultural communication.

Bartering is universal, but I don't think anyone does it any more. I think you meant haggling.

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 11:23am:

I think it is just Chinese, not asian more broadly. On second thought, they might actually be angry because they lost face. I kind of figured out that if you ask how much a trinket costs, they lose face if you walk away without buying it, but also if you end up buying it because they offer it at an absurdly low price. I even had on guy take my cash at the agreed price, then hold onto the item and demand a bit more. So I gave up because I didn't really want it and went to take my cash back, at which point he agreed and went through with the deal. But he was very animated about it. They lose face even if no-one is watching. Anyway, things are simpler if you don't even look at the products on offer. They are worse than Mexicans, who at least have a sense of humour.

Be a man!

https://youtu.be/ITwPzduUmCw?si=wNbRWsdAV1P3PrZY


https://youtu.be/z4KhEj0ai5E?si=agTsxuzBEucenl9L

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 11:33am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 11:29am: freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 11:23am: I think it is just Chinese, not asian more broadly. On second thought, they might actually be angry because they lost face. I kind of figured out that if you ask how much a trinket costs, they lose face if you walk away without buying it, but also if you end up buying it because they offer it at an absurdly low price. I even had on guy take my cash at the agreed price, then hold onto the item and demand a bit more. So I gave up because I didn't really want it and went to take my cash back, at which point he agreed and went through with the deal. But he was very animated about it. They lose face even if no-one is watching. Anyway, things are simpler if you don't even look at the products on offer. They are worse than Mexicans, who at least have a sense of humour. So your rationalising continues regarding Chinese. Face-saving features in all Southeast Asian cultures, as does bartering, in the way you describe. It's called cross cultural communication. Bartering is universal, but I don't think anyone does it any more. I think you meant haggling.

Ok... haggling.

Interesting that you quibble.

Quote:

Interesting that you quibble.

It's called communication. I am establishing what you meant to say.

Haggling is also part of our culture, but it is far more formalised, because salaries are too high to have people standing around waiting to be asked the price. We call it price discrimination.

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 11:41am:

Quote: Interesting that you quibble. It's called communication. I am establishing what you meant to say. Haggling is also part of our culture, but it is far more formalised, because salaries are too high to have people standing around waiting to be asked the price. We call it price discrimination.

OK... and the topic is?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 11:42am:

freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 11:41am: Quote: Interesting that you quibble. It's called communication. I am establishing what you meant to say. Haggling is also part of our culture, but it is far more formalised, because salaries are too high to have people standing around waiting to be asked the price. We call it price discrimination. OK... and the topic is?

Are you asking me what the thread title is, or what we are discussing?

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 11:43am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 11:42am: freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 11:41am: Quote: Interesting that you quibble. It's called communication. I am establishing what you meant to say. Haggling is also part of our culture, but it is far more formalised, because salaries are too high to have people standing around waiting to be asked the price. We call it price discrimination. OK... and the topic is? Are you asking me what the thread title is, or what we are discussing?

So, anyway...

You have responded by quibbling...

When this test was done in the US, measuring pre-conscious eye-to-amydala responses, those claiming to have no ethnic biases pre-test, who were later identified as having pre-conscious ethno-biases, also quibbled.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 11:51am:

freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 11:43am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 11:42am: freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 11:41am: Quote: Interesting that you quibble. It's called communication. I am establishing what you meant to say. Haggling is also part of our culture, but it is far more formalised, because salaries are too high to have people standing around waiting to be asked the price. We call it price discrimination. OK... and the topic is? Are you asking me what the thread title is, or what we are discussing? So, anyway... You have responded by quibbling... When this test was done in the US, measuring pre-conscious eye-to-amydala responses, those claiming to have no ethnic biases pre-test, who were later identified as having pre-conscious ethno-biases, also quibbled.

Some of them did, which is exactly what you would expect if you set them up for failure by asking them to consciously identify the unconscious. But not all.

Also, I said Italian, not European. If they were German you might make the opposite conclusion. The last time I saw an animated German, Poland was getting invaded.

Quote:

Some of them did, which is exactly what you would expect if you set them up for failure by asking them to consciously identify the unconscious. But not all.

They were not set up for failure.... There was no pass-failure standard.

The test was about measuring subconscious bias and included more than just ethnoculture. It included which sports and teams the subject supported, favourite/least favourite food dish, favourite/least favourite colour(s)... etc... and the images shown were adjusted depending on the individual.

The quibbling was centred around the 'validity' of the test, as well as quibbling over how the test was constructed... which, as you have indicated, you might have reacted.

Quote:

They were not set up for failure.... There was no pass-failure standard.

There doesn't have to be. That is not what the term means.


Quote:

which, as you have indicated, you might have reacted

Indicated how? I think you have your logic backwards. I can guarantee you that every test subject who got contradictory results was breathing at the time. I am breathing now. Does that mean I would get contradictory results, or that I am alive? What does your "logic" tell you about people who ask you to clarify the question before being given the test?

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 12:03pm:

Also, I said Italian, not European. If they were German you might make the opposite conclusion. The last time I saw an animated German, Poland was getting invaded.

OK... so now you're deflecting to WW2... Are you a Pole who lived through the war?

Are you suggesting that your personal ethnocultural bias is deeper than the major ethnic groups suggested?

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 12:09pm:

Quote: They were not set up for failure.... There was no pass-failure standard. There doesn't have to be. That is not what the term means.

So, having quibbled over my terminology, you now do so about your own.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 12:13pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 12:09pm: Quote: They were not set up for failure.... There was no pass-failure standard. There doesn't have to be. That is not what the term means. So, having quibbled over my terminology, you now do so about your own.

I was just pointing out your confusion.

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 12:14pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 12:13pm: freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 12:09pm: Quote: They were not set up for failure.... There was no pass-failure standard. There doesn't have to be. That is not what the term means. So, having quibbled over my terminology, you now do so about your own. I was just pointing out your confusion.

You seem to be trying a lot of that, regardless of the thread topic.

Your defensive attitude is also interesting.

I understand your excitement at coming across the word quibble in a research publication, but all you are doing is highlighting how dangerous a little bit of knowledge can be.

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 12:18pm:

I understand your excitement at coming across the word quibble in a research publication, but all you are doing is highlighting how dangers a little bit of knowledge can be.

And yet you are confirming exactly what the test revealed, among other things - defensive overreaction.

Dangers, eh! (Guess you meant dangerous!! Overexcited, much?) Do you feel threatened?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 12:20pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 12:18pm: I understand your excitement at coming across the word quibble in a research publication, but all you are doing is highlighting how dangers a little bit of knowledge can be. And yet you are confirming exactly what the test revealed, among other things - defensive overreaction. Dangers, eh! (Guess you meant dangerous!! Overexcited, much?) Do you feel threatened?

I feel amused.

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 12:32pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 12:20pm: freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 12:18pm: I understand your excitement at coming across the word quibble in a research publication, but all you are doing is highlighting how dangers a little bit of knowledge can be. And yet you are confirming exactly what the test revealed, among other things - defensive overreaction. Dangers, eh! (Guess you meant dangerous!! Overexcited, much?) Do you feel threatened? I feel amused.

Ah! Yes, of course!! Explains your WW2 Polish anti-German deflection!

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 9:22am:

If you were on an average commercial street at night in your region and you saw a group of young people acting in an emotionally animated way - angry, disgusted, would you likely feel an instinctive ethnocultural recoil if: The group differed from your own and was of general: African ethnicity Aboriginal ethnicity Arab ethnicity Asian ethnicity European ethnicity Indian (subcontinental) ethnicity Polynesian ethnicity And/or the group was identifiably: Muslim Sikh

How about just plain old equal opportunity recoil?
Ethnic antipathy as bonus.

Frank wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 12:42pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 9:22am: If you were on an average commercial street at night in your region and you saw a group of young people acting in an emotionally animated way - angry, disgusted, would you likely feel an instinctive ethnocultural recoil if: The group differed from your own and was of general: African ethnicity Aboriginal ethnicity Arab ethnicity Asian ethnicity European ethnicity Indian (subcontinental) ethnicity Polynesian ethnicity And/or the group was identifiably: Muslim Sikh How about just plain old equal opportunity recoil? Ethnic antipathy as bonus.

What is equal opportunity recoil when on an average commercial street at night in your region and you see a group of young people acting in an emotionally animated way?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 9:22am:

If you were on an average commercial street at night in your region and you saw a group of young people acting in an emotionally animated way - angry, disgusted, would you likely feel an instinctive ethnocultural recoil if: The group differed from your own and was of general: African ethnicity Aboriginal ethnicity Arab ethnicity Asian ethnicity European ethnicity Indian (subcontinental) ethnicity Polynesian ethnicity And/or the group was identifiably: Muslim Sikh

Would some AFL players in a Melbourne street find the behaviour of that group offsetting and repulsive, if that group were Rugby League players, regardless of race? Most likely, as the behaviour would be 'alien' to the norm of Melbournian culture. Visa versa if in Sydney in reverse.
So if a ethno race exhibits 'old country' behaviour in their new country, of course it will come across as offensive to the norm.

A Melbournian saying: "I like Black, Yellow, Blue, Grey, Red, White, Brown and Green Australians. I just hate all the Foreign ones."
The Sydney one is reverse"...I just hate all the Domestic ones."

You know. People in Nihon hate it when foreigners call them Japanese.

Let's also add that stereotype is a justified reason to discriminate.
If a gang of Bikers rode up to you. Would you immediately see them as peace loving pacifism? No.

Jasin wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 1:25pm:

Would some AFL players in a Melbourne street find the behaviour of that group offsetting and repulsive, if that group were Rugby League players, regardless of race? Most likely, as the behaviour would be 'alien' to the norm of Melbournian culture. Visa versa if in Sydney in reverse. So if a ethno race exhibits 'old country' behaviour in their new country, of course it will come across as offensive to the norm. A Melbournian saying: "I like Black, Yellow, Blue, Grey, Red, White, Brown and Green Australians. I just hate all the Foreign ones." The Sydney one is reverse"...I just hate all the Domestic ones." You know. People in Nihon hate it when foreigners call them Japanese.

Pre-conscious bias does occur with sport as well. People following a sport tend to instinctively recoil at the sight of their team's rivals' supporters.

Do people recoil from you when you tell them about your quibble theory?

FD. You are banned from this Topic for trolling.

Jasin wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 1:33pm:

Let's also add that stereotype is a justified reason to discriminate. If a gang of Bikers rode up to you. Would you immediately see them as peace loving pacifism? No.

Stereotyping is the most common way a pre-conscious recoil is constructed in the first place. However, when it comes to visual otherness, pre-conscious bias does not necessarily require it... Infants recoil from images of people who are visually distinct from their parents.

As someone put it, 'infants are not born little Buddhas'.

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 1:37pm:

Do people recoil from you when you tell them about your quibble theory?

Bitchery, now, eh!

From quibbling to Chinese/ Italian, to WW2, to 'amused', to bitchery...

Are you a gay male?

As for the Sudanese. Their negative behaviours are over shadowing any good behaviours they could promote on their behalf. Thus their assimilation is a violent introduction. It's not a good start.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 1:42pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 1:37pm: Do people recoil from you when you tell them about your quibble theory? Bitchery, now, eh! From quibbling to Chinese/ Italian, to WW2, to 'amused', to bitchery... Are you a gay male?

Do you realise that what you are carrying on with here has nothing to do with the research results you claim to be basing it on? Sometimes, when people tell you that you are wrong, it is simply because you are wrong.

Oi! You're banned.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 1:12pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 12:42pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 9:22am: If you were on an average commercial street at night in your region and you saw a group of young people acting in an emotionally animated way - angry, disgusted, would you likely feel an instinctive ethnocultural recoil if: The group differed from your own and was of general: African ethnicity Aboriginal ethnicity Arab ethnicity Asian ethnicity European ethnicity Indian (subcontinental) ethnicity Polynesian ethnicity And/or the group was identifiably: Muslim Sikh How about just plain old equal opportunity recoil? Ethnic antipathy as bonus. What is equal opportunity recoil when on an average commercial street at night in your region and you see a group of young people acting in an emotionally animated way?

Are you asking if one notices the ethnicity of a band of agitated youths at night and make judgements accordingly about how to deal with them?

Am I the same ethnicity as them? Or am I an ethnicity to which that group of youths culture is hostile?
I.e. am I a Jew in Lakemba at night? A whitey in Alice?

Given that it's not possible to detect pre-conscious bias recoil, it was proposed that those who quibbled were likely defending their self-image by quibbling over their results, which indicated their pre-conscious recoil from ethnocultural images.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 1:40pm:

Jasin wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 1:33pm: Let's also add that stereotype is a justified reason to discriminate. If a gang of Bikers rode up to you. Would you immediately see them as peace loving pacifism? No. Stereotyping is the most common way a pre-conscious recoil is constructed in the first place. However, when it comes to visual otherness, pre-conscious bias does not necessarily require it... Infants recoil from images of people who are visually distinct from their parents. As someone put it, 'infants are not born little Buddhas'.

Bias is another word for discernment, judgement.

You cannot NOT make value judgements all the time, about everything.

Quote:

it was proposed

Who proposed it?


Quote:

that those who quibbled were likely defending their self-image by quibbling over their results

What results? Are you talking about the study, or your infantile attempt arm armchair psychology over the internet?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 1:51pm:

Given that it's not possible to detect pre-conscious bias recoil, it was proposed that those who quibbled were likely defending their self-image by quibbling over their results, which indicated their pre-conscious recoil from ethnocultural images.

Ok. Your ban is lifted FD. I want to see the answer to that one.

Frank wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 1:49pm:

Are you asking if one notices the ethnicity of a band of agitated youths at night and make judgements accordingly about how to deal with them? Am I the same ethnicity as them? Or am I an ethnicity to which that group of youths culture is hostile? I.e. am I a Jew in Lakemba at night? A whitey in Alice?

Are you a Jew? Do you live in Alice? The question was regarding those who are ethnically distinct from you -

If you were on an average commercial street at night in your region and you saw a group of young people acting in an emotionally animated way - angry, disgusted, would you likely feel an instinctive ethnocultural recoil if:

The group differed from your own and was of general:

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 1:53pm:

Quote: it was proposed Who proposed it? [quote]that those who quibbled were likely defending their self-image by quibbling over their results

What results? Are you talking about the study, or your infantile attempt arm armchair psychology over the internet?[/quote]
Dobling down on bitchery, then, eh!

Your selective responses are also interesting... particularly the ones you avoid.

Frank wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 1:53pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 1:40pm: Jasin wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 1:33pm: Let's also add that stereotype is a justified reason to discriminate. If a gang of Bikers rode up to you. Would you immediately see them as peace loving pacifism? No. Stereotyping is the most common way a pre-conscious recoil is constructed in the first place. However, when it comes to visual otherness, pre-conscious bias does not necessarily require it... Infants recoil from images of people who are visually distinct from their parents. As someone put it, 'infants are not born little Buddhas'. Bias is another word for discernment, judgement. You cannot NOT make value judgements all the time, about everything.

And pre-conscious recoil is a deeper, reflexive form of discernment, judgement.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 1:51pm:

Given that it's not possible to detect pre-conscious bias recoil, it was proposed that those who quibbled were likely defending their self-image by quibbling over their results, which indicated their pre-conscious recoil from ethnocultural images.

Might there be a point to this?

It seems to me like a "bears indeed poo in the woods even when nobody is there to hear it" kind of research finding.

If this experiment were possible in the 50s in Australia, it would have been interesting to see the results from the mid '50s and today from Anglo-Australians responding to images of Italian or Greek people.

Also to images of Southern European Catholic/Othodox.

Would present-day Australians recoil from images of Italians/Greeks? Judging by Freediver's earlier comment, probably not. As we have become familiar with Italians/Greeks, our preconscious recoil has likely been dulled.

The shared negative memories of Nick Gianoppolis and Mary Coustos of growing up in Australia are in stark contrast to young Italian/Greek 2nd+ generation Australians.

Frank wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 2:16pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 1:51pm: Given that it's not possible to detect pre-conscious bias recoil, it was proposed that those who quibbled were likely defending their self-image by quibbling over their results, which indicated their pre-conscious recoil from ethnocultural images. Might there be a point to this? It seems to me like a "bears indeed poo in the woods even when nobody is there to hear it" kind of research finding.

It makes an argument for multiculturalism.

The more we are familiarised with distinct ethnicities, the less we preconsciously recoil at their sight.

Quote:

The more we are familiarised with distinct ethnicities, the less we preconsciously recoil at their sight.

Did you just make that up as well?

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 2:22pm:

Quote: The more we are familiarised with distinct ethnicities, the less we preconsciously recoil at their sight. Did you just make that up as well?

No. That was detected among those who were well familiarised with others from differing ethnicities... the more familiarised, the less the recoil.

Keep bitching there, gayboy!

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 2:21pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:16pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 1:51pm: Given that it's not possible to detect pre-conscious bias recoil, it was proposed that those who quibbled were likely defending their self-image by quibbling over their results, which indicated their pre-conscious recoil from ethnocultural images. Might there be a point to this? It seems to me like a "bears indeed poo in the woods even when nobody is there to hear it" kind of research finding. It makes an argument for multiculturalism. The more we are familiarised with distinct ethnicities, the less we preconsciously recoil at their sight.

I think it's bollocks.



What do Muslims say about multiculturalism with Jews and Hindus?

Anyway, multi in multiculti means many different cultures. And difference is discerned.
And there is always a hierarchy to different things and people and cultures. If you don't like the way a hierarchy is made you call it bias or prejudice. If you like it and agree with it you call it discernment and wisdom. But there is no "oh, it's just all the same, I can't tell them apart".

Frank wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 2:51pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:21pm: Frank wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:16pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 1:51pm: Given that it's not possible to detect pre-conscious bias recoil, it was proposed that those who quibbled were likely defending their self-image by quibbling over their results, which indicated their pre-conscious recoil from ethnocultural images. Might there be a point to this? It seems to me like a "bears indeed poo in the woods even when nobody is there to hear it" kind of research finding. It makes an argument for multiculturalism. The more we are familiarised with distinct ethnicities, the less we preconsciously recoil at their sight. Anyway, multi in multiculti means many different cultures. And difference is discerned. And there is always a hierarchy to different things and people and cultures. If you don't like the way a hierarchy is made you call it bias or prejudice. If you like it and agree with it you call it discernment and wisdom. But there is no "oh, it's just all the same, I can't tell them apart".

Of course. Yes, as long as you're not blind, visual difference is always noted, as it is with hearing and voices.

The question was, do you recoil from them, not: Do you not recognise difference.

When the amygdala receives stimuli from the visual field, it will pre-consciously respond (or not). It may not trigger if you see, say, Italians, and may trigger if you see, say, Middle-Easterners...

In all cases, you will become aware of/ recognise/ discern ethnic difference... or the lack thereof.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 2:21pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:16pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 1:51pm: Given that it's not possible to detect pre-conscious bias recoil, it was proposed that those who quibbled were likely defending their self-image by quibbling over their results, which indicated their pre-conscious recoil from ethnocultural images. Might there be a point to this? It seems to me like a "bears indeed poo in the woods even when nobody is there to hear it" kind of research finding. It makes an argument for multiculturalism. The more we are familiarised with distinct ethnicities, the less we preconsciously recoil at their sight.

I think it's bollocks.



What do Muslims say about multiculturalism with Jews and Hindus?

Anyway, multi in multiculti means many different cultures. And difference is discerned.
And there is always a hierarchy to different things and people and cultures. If you don't like the way a hierarchy is made you call it bias or prejudice. If you like it and agree with it you call it discernment and wisdom. But there is no "oh, it's just all the same, I can't tell them apart".

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 2:31pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:22pm: Quote: The more we are familiarised with distinct ethnicities, the less we preconsciously recoil at their sight. Did you just make that up as well? No. That was detected among those who were well familiarised with others from differing ethnicities... the more familiarised, the less the recoil. Keep bitching there, gayboy!

What do you think Freud would say about you accusing people of being gay just because you don't like what they say?

After the amygdala is triggered, it is added to the sensory information that travels via the optic nerves to the visual cortex, and then higher- including, ultimately, conscious, brain faculties.

These higher faculties may suppress the initial amydalic response such that you do not become aware of any sense of threat... or they may be consciously suppressed by so-called superego responses -how you ought to act - or they may augment the pre-conscious recoil.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 3:02pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:51pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:21pm: Frank wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:16pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 1:51pm: Given that it's not possible to detect pre-conscious bias recoil, it was proposed that those who quibbled were likely defending their self-image by quibbling over their results, which indicated their pre-conscious recoil from ethnocultural images. Might there be a point to this? It seems to me like a "bears indeed poo in the woods even when nobody is there to hear it" kind of research finding. It makes an argument for multiculturalism. The more we are familiarised with distinct ethnicities, the less we preconsciously recoil at their sight. Anyway, multi in multiculti means many different cultures. And difference is discerned. And there is always a hierarchy to different things and people and cultures. If you don't like the way a hierarchy is made you call it bias or prejudice. If you like it and agree with it you call it discernment and wisdom. But there is no "oh, it's just all the same, I can't tell them apart". Of course. Yes, as long as you're not blind, visual difference is always noted, as it is with hearing and voices. The question was, do you recoil from them, not: Do you not recognise difference. When the amygdala receives stimuli from the visual field, it will pre-consciously respond (or not). It may not trigger if you see, say, Italians, and may trigger if you see, say, Middle-Easterners... In all cases, you will become aware of/ recognise/ discern ethnic difference... or the lack thereof.

Way too simplistic.
If it was a bunch of tattooed, effin' and blindin' blondes I would recoil and avoid them.
If it was bunch of crying, distressed black choir boys after evening mass at a $50k private school, I would probably ask what the distress was about.

There is a huge amount of pertinent information on top of mere physical markers of race or ethnicity.
The collective noun for such markers is context.

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 3:06pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:31pm: freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:22pm: Quote: The more we are familiarised with distinct ethnicities, the less we preconsciously recoil at their sight. Did you just make that up as well? No. That was detected among those who were well familiarised with others from differing ethnicities... the more familiarised, the less the recoil. Keep bitching there, gayboy! What do you think Freud would say about you accusing people of being gay just because you don't like what they say?

Awww, Freeduver...

I guess he'd say... 'not that there's anything wrong with that'... being gay, that is... Freud didn't consider homosexuality to be a mental disorder.

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 3:06pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:31pm: freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:22pm: Quote: The more we are familiarised with distinct ethnicities, the less we preconsciously recoil at their sight. Did you just make that up as well? No. That was detected among those who were well familiarised with others from differing ethnicities... the more familiarised, the less the recoil. Keep bitching there, gayboy! What do you think Freud would say about you accusing people of being gay just because you don't like what they say?

Thank you, Sigmund.

Like everyone else, Freud would immediately suspect latent, self-loathing homosexuality.

Would he recoil or quibble, that's the real question.

Frank wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 3:12pm:

Way too simplistic. If it was a bunch of tattooed, effin' and blindin' blondes I would recoil and avoid them. If it was bunch of crying, distressed black choir boys after evening mass at a $50k private school, I would probably ask what the distress was about. There is a huge amount of pertinent information on top of mere physical markers of race or ethnicity. The collective noun for such markers is context.

So psychotic Danes or effeminate African boys... Have you had those encounters?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 3:06pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:31pm: freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:22pm: Quote: The more we are familiarised with distinct ethnicities, the less we preconsciously recoil at their sight. Did you just make that up as well? No. That was detected among those who were well familiarised with others from differing ethnicities... the more familiarised, the less the recoil. Keep bitching there, gayboy! What do you think Freud would say about you accusing people of being gay just because you don't like what they say? Awww, Freeduver... I guess he'd say... 'not that there's anything wrong with that'... being gay, that is... Freud didn't consider homosexuality to be a mental disorder.

More like a developmental retardation.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 3:15pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 3:06pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:31pm: freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:22pm: Quote: The more we are familiarised with distinct ethnicities, the less we preconsciously recoil at their sight. Did you just make that up as well? No. That was detected among those who were well familiarised with others from differing ethnicities... the more familiarised, the less the recoil. Keep bitching there, gayboy! What do you think Freud would say about you accusing people of being gay just because you don't like what they say? Awww, Freeduver... I guess he'd say... 'not that there's anything wrong with that'... being gay, that is... Freud didn't consider homosexuality to be a mental disorder.

It's the repeated accusations of homosexuality from you that I was asking about quibbler, not whether Freud himself approved of homsexuality.

Frank wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 3:16pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 3:06pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:31pm: freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:22pm: Quote: The more we are familiarised with distinct ethnicities, the less we preconsciously recoil at their sight. Did you just make that up as well? No. That was detected among those who were well familiarised with others from differing ethnicities... the more familiarised, the less the recoil. Keep bitching there, gayboy! What do you think Freud would say about you accusing people of being gay just because you don't like what they say? Thank you, Sigmund. Like everyone else, Freud would immediately suspect latent, self-loathing homosexuality. Would he recoil or quibble, that's the real question.

Welche Hälfte von dir spricht jetzt? Agatha oder Frank?

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 3:20pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 3:15pm: freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 3:06pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:31pm: freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:22pm: Quote: The more we are familiarised with distinct ethnicities, the less we preconsciously recoil at their sight. Did you just make that up as well? No. That was detected among those who were well familiarised with others from differing ethnicities... the more familiarised, the less the recoil. Keep bitching there, gayboy! What do you think Freud would say about you accusing people of being gay just because you don't like what they say? Awww, Freeduver... I guess he'd say... 'not that there's anything wrong with that'... being gay, that is... Freud didn't consider homosexuality to be a mental disorder. It's the repeated accusations of homosexuality from you that I was asking about quibbler, not whether Freud himself approved of homsexuality.

Well, if it flaps like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

Talking of recoil...


In highlighting the rich legacy of inter-cultural exchange behind the coiling movement, ReCoil: Change and Exchange in Coiled Fibre Art profiles the work of twelve Indigenous artists and three non-Indigenous textile artists who have worked together.

Organised by Artback NT: Arts Development and Touring, the exhibition features a wide range of conventional baskets to quirky, two and three dimensional, innovative sculptures, including a smaller version of the Grass Toyota that won the Telstra National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Art award in 2005.

ReCoil explores coiled basketry technique and the way it has spread and diversified, establishing new fibre movements in a range of remote Aboriginal communities. This basketry technique was traditionally practiced by Aboriginal people of south-east Australia, and was transplanted by missionaries many years ago to Arnhem Land.


So then there's that.

Frank wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 3:57pm:

Talking of recoil... In highlighting the rich legacy of inter-cultural exchange behind the coiling movement, ReCoil: Change and Exchange in Coiled Fibre Art profiles the work of twelve Indigenous artists and three non-Indigenous textile artists who have worked together. Organised by Artback NT: Arts Development and Touring, the exhibition features a wide range of conventional baskets to quirky, two and three dimensional, innovative sculptures, including a smaller version of the Grass Toyota that won the Telstra National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Art award in 2005. ReCoil explores coiled basketry technique and the way it has spread and diversified, establishing new fibre movements in a range of remote Aboriginal communities. This basketry technique was traditionally practiced by Aboriginal people of south-east Australia, and was transplanted by missionaries many years ago to Arnhem Land. So then there's that.

So, more deflection, then... I guess you've answered the question about one ethnic group...

Only 5 more to go...

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 3:20pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 3:16pm: freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 3:06pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:31pm: freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:22pm: Quote: The more we are familiarised with distinct ethnicities, the less we preconsciously recoil at their sight. Did you just make that up as well? No. That was detected among those who were well familiarised with others from differing ethnicities... the more familiarised, the less the recoil. Keep bitching there, gayboy! What do you think Freud would say about you accusing people of being gay just because you don't like what they say? Thank you, Sigmund. Like everyone else, Freud would immediately suspect latent, self-loathing homosexuality. Would he recoil or quibble, that's the real question. Welche Hälfte von dir spricht jetzt? Agatha oder Frank?

“Aunt Agatha is my tough aunt, the one who eats broken bottles and conducts human sacrifices by the light of the full moon.”

Frank wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 4:05pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 3:20pm: Frank wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 3:16pm: freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 3:06pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:31pm: freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:22pm: Quote: The more we are familiarised with distinct ethnicities, the less we preconsciously recoil at their sight. Did you just make that up as well? No. That was detected among those who were well familiarised with others from differing ethnicities... the more familiarised, the less the recoil. Keep bitching there, gayboy! What do you think Freud would say about you accusing people of being gay just because you don't like what they say? Thank you, Sigmund. Like everyone else, Freud would immediately suspect latent, self-loathing homosexuality. Would he recoil or quibble, that's the real question. Welche Hälfte von dir spricht jetzt? Agatha oder Frank? “Aunt Agatha is my tough aunt, the one who eats broken bottles and conducts human sacrifices by the light of the full moon.”

Yep... I'd bet she did... And now she's in your head.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 3:23pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 3:20pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 3:15pm: freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 3:06pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:31pm: freediver wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:22pm: Quote: The more we are familiarised with distinct ethnicities, the less we preconsciously recoil at their sight. Did you just make that up as well? No. That was detected among those who were well familiarised with others from differing ethnicities... the more familiarised, the less the recoil. Keep bitching there, gayboy! What do you think Freud would say about you accusing people of being gay just because you don't like what they say? Awww, Freeduver... I guess he'd say... 'not that there's anything wrong with that'... being gay, that is... Freud didn't consider homosexuality to be a mental disorder. It's the repeated accusations of homosexuality from you that I was asking about quibbler, not whether Freud himself approved of homsexuality. Well, if it flaps like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

It must be black?

Good job fighting the online war against unconscious bias, quibbler.

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 2:22pm:

Quote: The more we are familiarised with distinct ethnicities, the less we preconsciously recoil at their sight. Did you just make that up as well?

If he has, I think he's right though.

Rubbish people.

https://x.com/potterthebookie/status/1940045012307517802

https://x.com/DefundTheABC/status/1940300052737753400



In other recoiling news:

https://x.com/RadioGenoa/status/1940361473500602442

https://x.com/RadioGenoa/status/1940492600928321726

Well - Freud did have his limitations..........

In Sydney, it's instinctive to recoil at any Abos behaving in such a manner. In Melbourne, the Abos would recoil at seeing whites behave such.

Although antelope, wilderbeasts and zebra herd together. It is more natural for them to recoil more from their differences than their own kind. All three would recoil and flee from predators.

Recoiling from a difference is natural.

When I lived in Kirribilli. I would often walk across the bridge at night to my job on King St (Westpac) for my graveyard shifts or back from my evening shifts. Often I would recoil in caution during the night passages across the bridge as there was occasionally the idiots who just wanted to harass. Nothing of the sort would haven on the day crossings. Sometimes the recoil and slight curve of direction spoke "leave me alone" to a successful effect. Sometimes, it wasn't enough.

Perceived threat does not come from nowhere; it is triggered by the amygdalic response to raw, unprocessed/unconscious sensory perception.

The genetic disorder known as Williams Syndrome highlights the role the amygdala plays in determining attitude and demeanour towards received sensory information. The syndrome causes the amygdala not to be triggered by unconsciously perceived threats, such as sensitivity to human otherness, making sufferers unusually friendly towards strangers of any ethnicity.

Without the amygdala triggering fight/flight urges that we feel when threats are initially perceived, and not subsequently suppressed by higher-brain functions and conscious awareness, we feel unfazed by the immediate presence of the other.

Jasin wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 4:40pm:

When I lived in Kirribilli. I would often walk across the bridge at night to my job on King St (Westpac) for my graveyard shifts or back from my evening shifts. Often I would recoil in caution during the night passages across the bridge as there was occasionally the idiots who just wanted to harass. Nothing of the sort would haven on the day crossings. Sometimes the recoil and slight curve of direction spoke "leave me alone" to a successful effect. Sometimes, it wasn't enough.

Other than Aboriginals, are there other specific ethnicities that make you feel more wary than others do?

..

In Sydney, the criminal element comes from the poor and the West.
In Melbourne, I learned fast that it's the rich boys from the East that go nightclubbing with a length of wood.

Take Australian police for instance.
Sydney police come down hard on the rich.
Melbourne police come down hard on the poor.
Brisbane police take bribes.
Adelaide police will screw your partner or sister, etc.
Perth police are just corrupt.
Darwin police will shoot you.
...the worst police though are the Hobart police. They'll make you marry into their eleven fingered, twelve toed family.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 2:21pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:16pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 1:51pm: Given that it's not possible to detect pre-conscious bias recoil, it was proposed that those who quibbled were likely defending their self-image by quibbling over their results, which indicated their pre-conscious recoil from ethnocultural images. Might there be a point to this? It seems to me like a "bears indeed poo in the woods even when nobody is there to hear it" kind of research finding. It makes an argument for multiculturalism. The more we are familiarised with distinct ethnicities, the less we preconsciously recoil at their sight.

There are no good arguments for multiculturalism.  It is a fundamentally bad idea.

If I want to see Somalis- big IF - I'd go to Somalia. I don't go to Malmo or Minneapolis to see Somalis. I don't go to London to see Pakistanis and Nigerians or Paris to see Arabs.

Just as you don't go to Nigeria to see Englishmen and Mogadishu for the Swedes and Shanghai's for the Americans and Australians.

Multi Culturalism eventually runs dry.
Take Mt Druitt, even in the 70s. A mix of many different races of cultural differences, but from that (then) isolated bubble of numerous housing commissions, a distinct collective culture of violence emerged. Back then, gangs of mixed race or cultural background prevailed as the toughest due to versatility and adaption.
But now, Mt Druitt is no longer isolated. It's now part of everything else that is Sydney and now gangs are more racially and culturally divided.
Ironic.

Frank wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 5:52pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:21pm: Frank wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:16pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 1:51pm: Given that it's not possible to detect pre-conscious bias recoil, it was proposed that those who quibbled were likely defending their self-image by quibbling over their results, which indicated their pre-conscious recoil from ethnocultural images. Might there be a point to this? It seems to me like a "bears indeed poo in the woods even when nobody is there to hear it" kind of research finding. It makes an argument for multiculturalism. The more we are familiarised with distinct ethnicities, the less we preconsciously recoil at their sight. There are no good arguments for multiculturalism.  It is a fundamentally bad idea. If I want to see Somalis- big IF - I'd go to Somalia. I don't go to Malmo or Minneapolis to see Somalis. I don't go to London to see Pakistanis and Nigerians or Paris to see Arabs. Just as you don't go to Nigeria to see Englishmen and Mogadishu for the Swedes and Shanghai's for the Americans and Australians.

So that's Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs) on your recoil list, then.

Who do Abos, Africans, Pakis, Muslims recoil from?

Each other.

Not from Danes.

Can a Nigerian or a Somali ever become a Swede or Irish?


No.


Kvetch on.

Frank wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 7:33pm:

Who do Abos, Africans, Pakis, Muslims recoil from? Each other. Not from Danes.

Where are you at with Asians and Polynesians?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 7:37pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 7:33pm: Who do Abos, Africans, Pakis, Muslims recoil from? Each other. Not from Danes. Where are you at with Asians and Polynesians?

Which one are you?

Frank wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 7:44pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 7:37pm: Frank wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 7:33pm: Who do Abos, Africans, Pakis, Muslims recoil from? Each other. Not from Danes. Where are you at with Asians and Polynesians? Which one are you?

Neither

What ARE you, then?

You are very cagey about it.

Frank wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 8:01pm:

What ARE you, then? You are very cagey about it.

European.

Phew! For a minute there I thought you were Swazi ME.

Jasin wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 9:30pm:

Phew! For a minute there I thought you were Swazi ME.

Ah, Swaziland!... The smell of roasting warthog.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 6:56pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 5:52pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:21pm: Frank wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 2:16pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 1:51pm: Given that it's not possible to detect pre-conscious bias recoil, it was proposed that those who quibbled were likely defending their self-image by quibbling over their results, which indicated their pre-conscious recoil from ethnocultural images. Might there be a point to this? It seems to me like a "bears indeed poo in the woods even when nobody is there to hear it" kind of research finding. It makes an argument for multiculturalism. The more we are familiarised with distinct ethnicities, the less we preconsciously recoil at their sight. There are no good arguments for multiculturalism.  It is a fundamentally bad idea. If I want to see Somalis- big IF - I'd go to Somalia. I don't go to Malmo or Minneapolis to see Somalis. I don't go to London to see Pakistanis and Nigerians or Paris to see Arabs. Just as you don't go to Nigeria to see Englishmen and Mogadishu for the Swedes and Shanghai's for the Americans and Australians. So that's Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs) on your recoil list, then.

Have you, personally, had an altercation/violent interaction with Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs) such that you associated the altercation with ethnicity?

.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2025 at 8:10pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 8:01pm: What ARE you, then? You are very cagey about it. European.

Albanian? Gypsy? Irish? Serb? Russian?

You are very specific about others (subcontinental, specificalli Pakistani; Danish psychos etc) but you prefer to stay in the foggy shadows. Telling.

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 11:12am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 8:10pm: Frank wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 8:01pm: What ARE you, then? You are very cagey about it. European. Albanian? Gypsy? Irish? Serb? Russian? You are very specific about others (subcontinental, specificalli Pakistani; Danish psychos etc) but you prefer to stay in the foggy shadows. Telling.

I'm using the nationalities you've chosen to post.

My categorisations in this thread are general ethnicities.

Have you, personally, had an altercation/violent interaction with Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs) such that you associated the altercation with ethnicity?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 11:40am:

Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 11:12am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 8:10pm: Frank wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 8:01pm: What ARE you, then? You are very cagey about it. European. Albanian? Gypsy? Irish? Serb? Russian? You are very specific about others (subcontinental, specificalli Pakistani; Danish psychos etc) but you prefer to stay in the foggy shadows. Telling. I'm using the nationalities you've chosen to post. My categorisations in this thread are general ethnicities. Have you, personally, had an altercation/violent interaction with Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs) such that you associated the altercation with ethnicity?

A fool only learns from his own mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others.'
Otto von Bismarck

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 12:07pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 11:40am: Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 11:12am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 8:10pm: Frank wrote on Jul 3rd, 2025 at 8:01pm: What ARE you, then? You are very cagey about it. European. Albanian? Gypsy? Irish? Serb? Russian? You are very specific about others (subcontinental, specificalli Pakistani; Danish psychos etc) but you prefer to stay in the foggy shadows. Telling. I'm using the nationalities you've chosen to post. My categorisations in this thread are general ethnicities. Have you, personally, had an altercation/violent interaction with Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs) such that you associated the altercation with ethnicity? A fool only learns from his own mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others.' Otto von Bismarck

So, that'd be a no to having, personally, had an altercation/violent interaction with Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs) such that you associated the altercation with ethnicity, then.

Well, I had no close encounters with cannibals either but do take a dim view of the practice.
Does that make me biased and full of impersonal prejudice?



Your question about violent encounters with the Other is a red herring. It is a silly, pointless question but somehow you think it's significant.

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 12:47pm:

Well, I had no close encounters with cannibals either but do take a dim view of the practice. Does that make me biased and full of impersonal prejudice?

It could be that you witnessed others having an altercation/violent interaction with Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs) such that you associated the altercation with ethnicity.

Or that you acquired it second-hand.

Or that you are genetically predisposed to being particularly wary of all ethnicities other than your own.

It's not hard to intuit that instinctive ethnocultural recoil is acquired from third parties - usually from family and close family friends, for example, who instil it in us from a young age.

In Australia, the "they carry knives" ethnic warning is so common, it's a cliche, with 'they' usually referring to southern and eastern Europeans... Less so with subcontinentals, notwithstanding that devout Sikhs do carry a knife (a Kirpan) as part of their 5-Ks observance.

Many of these ethnic warnings transcend multiple generations, by which time they have likely long passed their truth value, if they ever had any.

Very simplistic, as I said before.

Class,  social status, sex, time, place are probably better indicators, certainly when combined with ethnicity. There were plenty of cut-throats in 19th century Sydney, almost all of them of British ethnicity

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 1:45pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 12:47pm: Well, I had no close encounters with cannibals either but do take a dim view of the practice. Does that make me biased and full of impersonal prejudice? It could be that you witnessed others having an altercation/violent interaction with Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs) such that you associated the altercation with ethnicity. Or that you acquired it second-hand. Or that you are genetically predisposed to being particularly wary of all ethnicities other than your own.

It doesn't need to 'recoil'.
Disdain, dislike, distance, disgust, antipathy, scorn also figure.

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 4:06pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 1:45pm: Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 12:47pm: Well, I had no close encounters with cannibals either but do take a dim view of the practice. Does that make me biased and full of impersonal prejudice? It could be that you witnessed others having an altercation/violent interaction with Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs) such that you associated the altercation with ethnicity. Or that you acquired it second-hand. Or that you are genetically predisposed to being particularly wary of all ethnicities other than your own. It doesn't need to 'recoil'. Disdain, dislike, distance, disgust, antipathy, scorn also figure.

They're what recoil means in terms of amygdalic response, with disgust being a recoil reaction from the anterior insula.

From a conscious perspective, disdain, dislike, distance, disgust, antipathy, and scorn are the higher brain function responses to recoil signals from the amygdala or, in the case of disgust, the anterior insula.

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 4:02pm:

Very simplistic, as I said before. Class,  social status, sex, time, place are probably better indicators, certainly when combined with ethnicity. There were plenty of cut-throats in 19th century Sydney, almost all of them of British ethnicity

With all else being equal, colonists would generally not have experienced instinctive ethnocultural recoil from images of any other British Isles colonist.

If there was a subcultural context, such as feelings of subcultural animosity among English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish peoples, or even convicts, then they would need to be visibly subcultural. In the case of the Irish, for example, they were often depicted as apelike for that purpose.

Aboriginals, for example, even if dressed as a wealthy colonist, would likely still have triggered instinctive ethnocultural recoil in many British colonists

Simplistic and severely reductionist.
And the physiological reaction is not about ethno-cultural differences but general disgust/disdain - one would recoil from a bunch of unruly, aggressive scandinavian tough eggs in a dark lane and not from a group of fuzzy wuzzy angels at the battalion reunion.

Dangerousness is not exhausted by racial or ethnic characteristics. The physiology of recoiling from white or black or brindle danger would be identical. There is no physiological marker for ethnic recoil in the amygdala nor the anterior insula.

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 12:47pm:

Well, I had no close encounters with cannibals either but do take a dim view of the practice. Does that make me biased and full of impersonal prejudice? Your question about violent encounters with the Other.....is a red herring.

Correct.




Quote:

Red herring A red herring is something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important question. It may be either a logical fallacy or a literary device that leads readers or audiences toward a false conclusion. A red herring may be used intentionally, as in mystery fiction or as part of rhetorical strategies, or may be used in argumentation inadvertently.

- Wiki



To me, this thread, presented by MeisterEckhart,
seems to be an attempt, at 'a provocation',
intended to evoke a public [and indiscreet] confession of fault, from others.

Am i correct ?

You, yourself, could front up here, MeisterEckhart,
and make a clean breast of it.

And plainly state, YOUR OWN MOTIVE,
in starting this somewhat 'provocative' thread.


.


Yadda   >> confesses <<   to 'suffering' from a NON-instinctive...
'ethno-cultural recoil'     here......
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1732843354/0#0

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 4:35pm:

Simplistic and severely reductionist. And the physiological reaction is not about ethno-cultural differences but general disgust/disdain - one would recoil from a bunch of unruly, aggressive scandinavian tough eggs in a dark lane and not from a group of fuzzy wuzzy angels at the battalion reunion. Dangerousness is not exhausted by racial or ethnic characteristics. The physiology of recoiling from white or black or brindle danger would be identical. There is no physiological marker for ethnic recoil in the amygdala nor the anterior insula.

Agatha Frank (they/them) read the thread topic and OP.

No dark lane - average commercial street in your region. In your case, you can trim it back to an average commercial street in your region where the ethnic(s) are walking towards you.

And, yes, visible ethnic differences can trigger recoil in the amygdala and the anterior insula.

Without an amygdalic/anterior insula response, higher brain functions cannot register disdain, disgust... etc, just an unchanged demeanour or even friendliness, as Williams Syndrome sufferers, whose amygdals do not respond effectively to any perceived threat, exhibit.

.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 5:02pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 4:35pm: Simplistic and severely reductionist. And the physiological reaction is not about ethno-cultural differences but general disgust/disdain - one would recoil from a bunch of unruly, aggressive scandinavian tough eggs in a dark lane and not from a group of fuzzy wuzzy angels at the battalion reunion. Dangerousness is not exhausted by racial or ethnic characteristics. The physiology of recoiling from white or black or brindle danger would be identical. There is no physiological marker for ethnic recoil in the amygdala nor the anterior insula. Agatha Frank (they/them) read the thread topic and OP. No dark lane - average commercial street in your region. In your case, you can trim it back to an average commercial street in your region where the ethnic(s) are walking towards you. And, yes, visible ethnic differences can trigger recoil in the amygdala and the anterior insula. Without an amygdalic/anterior insula response, higher brain functions cannot register disdain, disgust... etc, just an unchanged demeanour or even friendliness, as Williams Syndrome sufferers, whose amygdals do not respond effectively to any perceived threat, exhibit.

I think it is a severely reductionist, back to front construct, like the biochemical explanations of love, religion, and other abstract values in human live - oh, it's just a hormonal, chemical process. It's like Bbwiyawn's hobby-horse of no races in DNA, ev as racial characteristics are transmitted genetically.

You - or the boffins whose research you are convinced by - reduce complex human encounters and exchanges to brain chemistry. But of course brain chemistry doesn't interpret anything. You are flogging the amygdala horse as if it actually made judgements, as if it wasn't responding to interpretations of danger and attraction, suspicion and trust and the rest.

Do you  interpret a bunch of ethnics as dangerous, indifferent, attractive and then communicate that judgement to your amygdala? Are you separate from the amygdala that then controls, through neural feed back, your behavioural response?  This is like a mechanical or computer model of person hood. But we are not clocks nor computers.

It is not the amygdala that responds to the bunch of ethnics but you.

Behaving badly or well, appropriately or inappropriately  - by ethnics or by you - is the result of complex and conscious moral judgements. No amount of MRI scans, biopsies or biochemical analysis of the amygdala will locate those moral judgement.

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 5:32pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 5:02pm: Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 4:35pm: Simplistic and severely reductionist. And the physiological reaction is not about ethno-cultural differences but general disgust/disdain - one would recoil from a bunch of unruly, aggressive scandinavian tough eggs in a dark lane and not from a group of fuzzy wuzzy angels at the battalion reunion. Dangerousness is not exhausted by racial or ethnic characteristics. The physiology of recoiling from white or black or brindle danger would be identical. There is no physiological marker for ethnic recoil in the amygdala nor the anterior insula. Agatha Frank (they/them) read the thread topic and OP. No dark lane - average commercial street in your region. In your case, you can trim it back to an average commercial street in your region where the ethnic(s) are walking towards you. And, yes, visible ethnic differences can trigger recoil in the amygdala and the anterior insula. Without an amygdalic/anterior insula response, higher brain functions cannot register disdain, disgust... etc, just an unchanged demeanour or even friendliness, as Williams Syndrome sufferers, whose amygdals do not respond effectively to any perceived threat, exhibit. I think it is a severely reductionist, back to front construct, like the biochemical explanations of love, religion, and other abstract values in human live - oh, it's just a hormonal, chemical process. It's like Bbwiyawn's hobby-horse of no races in DNA, ev as racial characteristics are transmitted genetically. You - or the boffins whose research you are convinced by - reduce complex human encounters and exchanges to brain chemistry. But of course brain chemistry doesn't interpret anything. You are flogging the amygdala horse as if it actually made judgements, as if it wasn't responding to interpretations of danger and attraction, suspicion and trust and the rest. Do you  interpret a bunch of ethnics as dangerous, indifferent, attractive and then communicate that judgement to your amygdala? Are you separate from the amygdala that then controls, through neural feeds back, your behavioural response? This is like a mechanical or computer model of person hood. But we are not clocks nor computers. It is not the amygdala that responds to the bunch of ethnic but you.

Agatha Frank (they/them) reread the thread... It's been covered.

Neither the amygdala nor the anterior insula makes value judgments... that is done by higher brain functions responding to amygdalic/ anterior insula recoil signals of threat or pathogenic/ immoral (in humans) stimuli perceived usually through sensory organs, or persistent, intrusive memories as with PTSD.

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 5:39pm:

Behaving badly or well, appropriately or inappropriately  - by ethnics or by you - is the result of complex and conscious moral judgements. No amount of MRI scans, biopsies or biochemical analysis of the amygdala will locate those moral judgement.

The recoil from perceiving immorality in humans is controlled by the insula... It's why we describe withessing immoral acts as 'made me sick' and the nose often cripples at the sight or thought of an immoral act.

Again, the insula doesn't make the judgment; it merely signals pathogenicity (e.g. in humans, the sight/smell of sh!t) or immorality. If you ever suffer dementia that destroys your insula, you will not be fazed by eating your own sh!t or coming on to the orderlies in the home.... so watch out!

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 5:39pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 5:32pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 5:02pm: Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 4:35pm: Simplistic and severely reductionist. And the physiological reaction is not about ethno-cultural differences but general disgust/disdain - one would recoil from a bunch of unruly, aggressive scandinavian tough eggs in a dark lane and not from a group of fuzzy wuzzy angels at the battalion reunion. Dangerousness is not exhausted by racial or ethnic characteristics. The physiology of recoiling from white or black or brindle danger would be identical. There is no physiological marker for ethnic recoil in the amygdala nor the anterior insula. Agatha Frank (they/them) read the thread topic and OP. No dark lane - average commercial street in your region. In your case, you can trim it back to an average commercial street in your region where the ethnic(s) are walking towards you. And, yes, visible ethnic differences can trigger recoil in the amygdala and the anterior insula. Without an amygdalic/anterior insula response, higher brain functions cannot register disdain, disgust... etc, just an unchanged demeanour or even friendliness, as Williams Syndrome sufferers, whose amygdals do not respond effectively to any perceived threat, exhibit. I think it is a severely reductionist, back to front construct, like the biochemical explanations of love, religion, and other abstract values in human live - oh, it's just a hormonal, chemical process. It's like Bbwiyawn's hobby-horse of no races in DNA, ev as racial characteristics are transmitted genetically. You - or the boffins whose research you are convinced by - reduce complex human encounters and exchanges to brain chemistry. But of course brain chemistry doesn't interpret anything. You are flogging the amygdala horse as if it actually made judgements, as if it wasn't responding to interpretations of danger and attraction, suspicion and trust and the rest. Do you  interpret a bunch of ethnics as dangerous, indifferent, attractive and then communicate that judgement to your amygdala? Are you separate from the amygdala that then controls, through neural feeds back, your behavioural response? This is like a mechanical or computer model of person hood. But we are not clocks nor computers. It is not the amygdala that responds to the bunch of ethnic but you. Agatha Frank (they/them) reread the thread... It's been covered. Neither the amygdala nor the anterior insula makes value judgments... that is done by higher brain functions responding to amygdalic/ anterior insula recoil signals of threat or pathogenic/ immoral (in humans) stimuli perceived usually through sensory organs, or persistent, intrusive memories as with PTSD.

Without moral judgement this entire thread is meaningless. Moral judgements is at the very core of it.

Whether you recoil reflexively from imminent danger - and large stone flying through the air towards you - or you recoil from something that requires a moral, value interpretation - it's a bunch of rowdy black with machetes over there, not a group of silver haired nuns singing carols - is the result of interpreting and evaluating what you are encountering. You are not a puppet of your amygdala nor of your anterior insula. Not even of your homunculus, lodged in your pineal gland, the little rascal.

Incommensurate. Also a category mistake.
Moral judgement is not made by biochemical processes. Values are not chemical and are not reducible to boochemistry.
You can change your values. You cannot change your response to an electric current in your amygdala or your testes.

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 5:58pm:

Without moral judgement this entire thread is meaningless. Moral judgements is at the very core of it. Whether you recoil reflexively from imminent danger - and large stone flying through the air towards you - or you recoil from something that requires a moral, value interpretation - it's a bunch of rowdy black with machetes over there, not a group of silver haired nuns singing carols - is the result of interpreting and evaluating what you are encountering. You are not a puppet of your amygdala nor of your anterior insula. Not even of your homunculus, lodged in your pineal gland, the little rascal.

Agatha Frank (they/them) reread the thread. It's been covered.

The topic is not about blacks with machetes, nor nuns, or dark lanes or psychotic Scandinavians or effeminate African choir boys, it's about the sight of ethnics.

The higher brain functions cannot process fear, anger or disgust without the amygdala/anterior insula first triggering them.

That's true even when with memory recall... the amygdala/ insula will be retriggered by the memory, which is what happens pathologically with PTSD.

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 6:04pm:

Incommensurate. Also a category mistake. Moral judgement is not made by biochemical processes. Values are not chemical and are not reducible to boochemistry. You can change your values. You cannot change your response to an electric current in your amygdala or your testes.

Wait till you have dementia that has destroyed your insula when you're chowing down on a turd while exposing yoursef to an orderly in the home... something for you to look forward to, eh, Agatha Frank (they/them)...

Yes, you can train yourself not to respond to amygdalic/insula recoil... so, go out and make as many friends as you can with Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs)...

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 6:09pm:

That's true even when with memory recall... the amygdala/ insula will be retriggered by the memory, which is what happens pathologically with PTSD.

That's another point about the role of the amygdala...

With normal brain functioning, over time, a memory is uncoupled from the amygdala, which is why painful or threatening memories lessen in their emotional intensity over time, so long as similar experiences don't reinforce them.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 6:09pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 5:58pm: Without moral judgement this entire thread is meaningless. Moral judgements is at the very core of it. Whether you recoil reflexively from imminent danger - and large stone flying through the air towards you - or you recoil from something that requires a moral, value interpretation - it's a bunch of rowdy black with machetes over there, not a group of silver haired nuns singing carols - is the result of interpreting and evaluating what you are encountering. You are not a puppet of your amygdala nor of your anterior insula. Not even of your homunculus, lodged in your pineal gland, the little rascal. Agatha Frank (they/them) reread the thread. It's been covered. The topic is not about blacks with machetes, nor nuns, or dark lanes or psychotic Scandinavians or effeminate African choir boys, it's about the sight of ethnics. The higher brain functions cannot process fear, anger or disgust without the amygdala/anterior insula first triggering them. That's true even when with memory recall... the amygdala/ insula will be retriggered by the memory, which is what happens pathologically with PTSD.

You do not see ethnics.

It is not a value free perception like an open palm/stone/bird coming rapidly towards your face.

Ethnics is a moral judgement. Socio-cultural Other is a moral judgement. You cannot MRI scans for it or electrically stimulate the amygdala for it.

Your theory is a compartmentalising, reductionist model. But there is no model for being human. Not mechanical, not cybernetic, not biochemical. They are ALL incomplete. You cant model moral, value judgements, they are irreducible to mechanics.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 6:15pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 6:04pm: Incommensurate. Also a category mistake. Moral judgement is not made by biochemical processes. Values are not chemical and are not reducible to boochemistry. You can change your values. You cannot change your response to an electric current in your amygdala or your testes. Wait till you have dementia that has destroyed your insula when you're chowing down on a turd while exposing yoursef to an orderly in the home... something for you to look forward to, eh, Agatha Frank (they/them)... Yes, you can train yourself not to respond to amygdalic/insula recoil... so, go out and make as many friends as you can with Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs)...

You like to start out all learned but then very quickly descend into snarling buggerwittery when you encounter disagreement. Is that your amygdala or anterior insula - or you?
Are you snarling because you want to or is it not really you as you but your amygdala?

Please explain.

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 7:25pm:

You do not see ethnics. It is not a value free perception like an open palm/stone/bird coming rapidly towards your face. Ethnics is a moral judgement. Socio-cultural Other is a moral judgement. You cannot MRI scans for it or electrically stimulate the amygdala for it. Your theory is a compartmentalising, reductionist model. But there is no model for being human. Not mechanical, not cybernetic, not biochemical. They are ALL incomplete. You cant model moral, value judgements, they are irreducible to mechanics.

And this thread is not about ethics or the establishment of values or morals... how many more pages will it take before you comprehend that?

The amygdala sends a pre-conscious recoil signal to warn of a threat. The anterior insula sends a pre-conscious recoil signal to warn of pathogenicity and, in humans, immorality.

And the response from higher brain functions is not instant... the limbic response from the amygdala/insula is.

It's why if you hear a loud bang near you while walking in the street, you will instantly cower without needing to think it out.

It's why when you see a person of an ethnicity perceived as a threat coming towards you while walking in the street, you will likely feel tension in your body.

What your higher brain functions do with that recoil signal after the fact is another subject.

Analyse this for ethnic cultural recoil.  Call an amygdala if you must.


https://www.spectator.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Rod-Getty.jpg

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 7:30pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 6:15pm: Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 6:04pm: Incommensurate. Also a category mistake. Moral judgement is not made by biochemical processes. Values are not chemical and are not reducible to boochemistry. You can change your values. You cannot change your response to an electric current in your amygdala or your testes. Wait till you have dementia that has destroyed your insula when you're chowing down on a turd while exposing yoursef to an orderly in the home... something for you to look forward to, eh, Agatha Frank (they/them)... Yes, you can train yourself not to respond to amygdalic/insula recoil... so, go out and make as many friends as you can with Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs)... You like to start out all learned but then very quickly descend into snarling buggerwittery when you encounter disagreement. Is that your amygdala or anterior insula - or you? Are you snarling because you want to or is it not really you as you but your amygdala? Please explain.

It's my recoil from your smug idiocy, Agatha Frank (they/them).

Your teenage deflections, and your fag-like contempt are obvious to all... like a sh!t-smeared dementia patient walking naked in the street.

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 7:41pm:

Analyse this for ethnic cultural recoil.  Call an amygdala if you must. https://www.spectator.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Rod-Getty.jpg

The question is: What is happening in that crowd to you?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 7:40pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 7:25pm: You do not see ethnics. It is not a value free perception like an open palm/stone/bird coming rapidly towards your face. Ethnics is a moral judgement. Socio-cultural Other is a moral judgement. You cannot MRI scans for it or electrically stimulate the amygdala for it. Your theory is a compartmentalising, reductionist model. But there is no model for being human. Not mechanical, not cybernetic, not biochemical. They are ALL incomplete. You cant model moral, value judgements, they are irreducible to mechanics. And this thread is not about ethics or the establishment of values or morals... how many more pages will it take before you comprehend that? The amygdala sends a pre-conscious recoil signal to warn of a threat. The anterior insula sends a pre-conscious recoil signal to warn of pathogenicity and, in humans, immorality. And the response from higher brain functions is not instant... the limbic response from the amygdala/insula is. It's why if you hear a loud bang near you while walking in the street, you will instantly cower without needing to think it out. It's why when you see a person of an ethnicity perceived as a threat coming towards you while walking in the street, you will likely feel tension in your body. What your higher brain functions do with that recoil signal after the fact is another subject.

It IS about morals and values. Ethnic AS  threat is a moral judgement, not a preconscious brain function.

As I pointed out before, unruly toughies would be avoided by anyone, of any ethnicity, including their own. When you see a threatening person approaching you, you perceive the threat, whatever the ethnicity.

Multiculturalism as promotable, teachable, valorised with with brain 'science' - total bolocks. I am beginning to see that you are a total nutter. Monomaniac nutter.  You are totally petrified in your views and no outside light is allowed to be shone on your manias. You are set like a tub of yogurt. 

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 7:48pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 7:41pm: Analyse this for ethnic cultural recoil.  Call an amygdala if you must. https://www.spectator.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Rod-Getty.jpg The question is: What is happening in that crowd to you?

No. The question is about amygdala. What is the amygdala doing here.

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 7:55pm:

It IS about morals and values. Ethnic AS  threat is a moral judgement, not a preconscious brain function. As I pointed out before, unruly toughies would be avoided by anyone, of any ethnicity, including their own. When you see a threatening person approaching you, you perceive the threat, whatever the ethnicity. Multiculturalism as promotable, teachable, valorised with with brain 'science' - total bolocks. I am beginning to see that you are a total nutter. Monomaniac nutter.  You are totally petrified in your views and no outside light is allowed to be shone on your manias. You are set like a tub of yogurt.

Unruly toughies, now, eh! So that's blacks with machetes, nuns, dark lanes, psychotic Scandinavians, effeminate African choir boys... Anything but an ethnic person or persons walking towards you.

Visual threat is recognised by the amygdala first... it cannot be any other way... What you make of it, as layers of higher brain functioning are applied to the response, including suppressing the amygdalic response, is another matter.

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 7:56pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 7:48pm: Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 7:41pm: Analyse this for ethnic cultural recoil.  Call an amygdala if you must. https://www.spectator.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Rod-Getty.jpg The question is: What is happening in that crowd to you? No. The question is about amygdala. What is the amygdala doing here.

There's no 'the amygdala', there's yours and mine.

What does the picture trigger in you?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 7:48pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 7:41pm: Analyse this for ethnic cultural recoil.  Call an amygdala if you must. https://www.spectator.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Rod-Getty.jpg The question is: What is happening in that crowd to you?

A lot of white fuckwits like you celebrating a tinted fuckwit.

What do YOU see?

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 8:06pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 7:48pm: Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 7:41pm: Analyse this for ethnic cultural recoil.  Call an amygdala if you must. https://www.spectator.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Rod-Getty.jpg The question is: What is happening in that crowd to you? A lot of white fuckwits like you celebrating a tinted fuckwit. What do YOU see?

I see a bloke in a mosh pit.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 8:09pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 8:06pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 7:48pm: Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 7:41pm: Analyse this for ethnic cultural recoil.  Call an amygdala if you must. https://www.spectator.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Rod-Getty.jpg The question is: What is happening in that crowd to you? A lot of white fuckwits like you celebrating a tinted fuckwit. What do YOU see? I see a bloke in a mosh pit.

Is that a moral difference or a brain chemistry difference?

It's easy to see why progressives got it so wrong with wokeness.

Amydalic and insula responses to visual stimuli cannot be legislated or coerced away.

It's hard to suppress those instinctive or second-nature responses, even when the subject is willing.

Anyone who has willingly faced a threat to 'conquer' their fear will tell you it ain't easy...

And to expect coercion to succeed against the will... that won't be happening.

Frank wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 8:27pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 8:09pm: Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 8:06pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 7:48pm: Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 7:41pm: Analyse this for ethnic cultural recoil.  Call an amygdala if you must. https://www.spectator.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Rod-Getty.jpg The question is: What is happening in that crowd to you? A lot of white fuckwits like you celebrating a tinted fuckwit. What do YOU see? I see a bloke in a mosh pit. Is that a moral difference or a brain chemistry difference?

I've seen mosh pits before.

During those years when you were locked up in a Swiss nuthouse undergoing aversion therapy, the music world was evolving... mosh pit antics have been around for decades.

You should try it sometime... but keep your hands to yourself...

https://www.spectator.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Rod-Getty.jpg

There was a band decades ago that triggered the amygdalas of UK citizens, such that extreme actions by the state were considered to crush them...

The lyrics to one of their songs were feared it would 'bring down the state'... and it goes something like this:

God save the Queen, the fascist regime
They made you a moron, A potential H bomb

God save the Queen, She ain't no human being
There is no future In England's dreaming

Don't be told what you want, you want And don't be told what you want to need
There's no future, no future, No future for you

God save the Queen, We mean it, man
We love our Queen, God saves

God save the Queen, 'Cause tourists are money
And our figurehead, is not what she seems

God save history, God save your mad parade
Oh lord God, have mercy, All crimes are paid

When there's no future, how can there be sin?
We're the flowers in the dustbin
We're the poison in your human machine
We're the future, your future

God save the Queen, We mean it, man
There is no future, In England's dreaming
No future, No future, No future for you...

Spoiler alert... It didn't bring down the state.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 5:39pm:

Neither the amygdala nor the anterior insula          makes value judgments... that is done by higher brain functions responding to amygdalic/ anterior insula recoil signals of threat or pathogenic/ immoral (in humans) stimuli perceived usually through sensory organs, or persistent, intrusive memories as with PTSD.

Our 'VALUE JUDGEMENTS'

.......are directed by OUR [ingrained, habitual] motives.



Much of human behaviour is directed by our own desire....to achieve a particular objective.

CULTURE....we are the product of it.

Our motives, are the product of.....CULTURE.


ingrained = =
1 firmly established.
2 deeply embedded.



We are what we repeatedly do.
Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.
- Aristotle

And evil, embedded in our soul, too......is a product of our own 'focus'.
.....i.e. our 'familiar', repeated choices.

Not so ?


.


The Judaeo-Christian scripture.....is full of AFFIRMATIONS...which can influence our repeated choices.


"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly,
nor standeth in the way of sinners,
nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
But his delight is in the law of the LORD;
and in his law doth he meditate day and night."
Psalms KJV


AFFIRMATIONS...for life.

Psalms 119:103
How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
104  Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
105  Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.


And yet, many men today, will choose >> to spit << upon such 'affirmations'.

Why ?

Its.....the CULTURE.      .....it is the evil.....that is in our souls.

It, is the zeitgeist, of this age.

zeitgeist = = the defining spirit or mood of a particular period of history.


Blindness.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4^th, 2025 at 6:15pm:

Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 6:04pm: Incommensurate. Also a category mistake. Moral judgement is not made by biochemical processes. Values are not chemical and are not reducible to boochemistry. You can change your values. You cannot change your response to an electric current in your amygdala or your testes. Wait till you have dementia that has destroyed your insula when you're chowing down on a turd while exposing yoursef to an orderly in the home... something for you to look forward to, eh, Agatha Frank (they/them)... Yes, you can train yourself not to respond to amygdalic/insula recoil... so, go out and make as many friends as you can with Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs)...

MeisterEckhart,

Why do so ???



That, could be a very stupid decision.

Shouldn't my association [with others]....be based upon SHARED VALUES ?

association = = a group of people organized for a joint purpose.


WHEREAS......
If i know these persons [who may include Europeans also] are, or would be, 'bad actors' [because of their ingrained, habitual] bad motives],
then WHY would i choose 'sidle' up to them ?


WHY would i choose, to join myself to their CULTURE......
if the CULTURE of another person or group of persons,
clashes with my own 'VALUE JUDGEMENTS' ?
MeisterEckhart said......
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1751498548/109#109



WHY would i choose, to be NORMALISED [within myself]....to a CULTURE which clashes with my own  'VALUE JUDGEMENTS' ?

They may be, a group wanna-be murderers !   [....and we already know some cultural groups, who embrace such a 'normalised' ....'value' ]

Are you suggesting, that i should i join myself to murderers,
......simply, in order to 'be accepted' by 'that crowd' ?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 5^th, 2025 at 8:56am:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Rod-Getty.jpg There was a band decades ago that triggered the amygdalas of UK citizens, such that extreme actions by the state were considered to crush them... The lyrics to one of their songs were feared it would 'bring down the state'... and it goes something like this: God save the Queen, the fascist regime They made you a moron, A potential H bomb God save the Queen, She ain't no human being There is no future In England's dreaming Don't be told what you want, you want And don't be told what you want to need There's no future, no future, No future for you God save the Queen, We mean it, man We love our Queen, God saves God save the Queen, 'Cause tourists are money And our figurehead, is not what she seems God save history, God save your mad parade Oh lord God, have mercy, All crimes are paid When there's no future, how can there be sin? We're the flowers in the dustbin We're the poison in your human machine We're the future, your future God save the Queen, We mean it, man There is no future, In England's dreaming No future, No future, No future for you... Spoiler alert... It didn't bring down the state.

:D :D :D

The amygdala is now processing totally abstract moral concepts entirely enclosed in language, dealing with history, politics, manners.

I don't think you even half understand what you are talking about.

Frank wrote on Jul 5^th, 2025 at 10:54am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 5th, 2025 at 8:56am: https://www.spectator.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Rod-Getty.jpg There was a band decades ago that triggered the amygdalas of UK citizens, such that extreme actions by the state were considered to crush them... The lyrics to one of their songs were feared it would 'bring down the state'... and it goes something like this: God save the Queen, the fascist regime They made you a moron, A potential H bomb God save the Queen, She ain't no human being There is no future In England's dreaming Don't be told what you want, you want And don't be told what you want to need There's no future, no future, No future for you God save the Queen, We mean it, man We love our Queen, God saves God save the Queen, 'Cause tourists are money And our figurehead, is not what she seems God save history, God save your mad parade Oh lord God, have mercy, All crimes are paid When there's no future, how can there be sin? We're the flowers in the dustbin We're the poison in your human machine We're the future, your future God save the Queen, We mean it, man There is no future, In England's dreaming No future, No future, No future for you... Spoiler alert... It didn't bring down the state. :D :D :D The amygdala is now processing totally abstract moral concepts entirely enclosed in language, dealing with history, politics, manners. I do t think you even half understand what you are talking about.

You're back, you mincing idiot... desperate as always... How was the chicken?

The amygdala reference in context is a stand-in for 'raised the hackles', given the thread name.

.

Yadda wrote on Jul 5^th, 2025 at 10:14am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 6:15pm: Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 6:04pm: Incommensurate. Also a category mistake. Moral judgement is not made by biochemical processes. Values are not chemical and are not reducible to boochemistry. You can change your values. You cannot change your response to an electric current in your amygdala or your testes. Wait till you have dementia that has destroyed your insula when you're chowing down on a turd while exposing yoursef to an orderly in the home... something for you to look forward to, eh, Agatha Frank (they/them)... Yes, you can train yourself not to respond to amygdalic/insula recoil... so, go out and make as many friends as you can with Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs)... MeisterEckhart, Why do so ??? That, could be a very stupid decision.

The paragraph was written tongue-in-cheek, given the poster...

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 5^th, 2025 at 11:17am:

Frank wrote on Jul 5th, 2025 at 10:54am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 5th, 2025 at 8:56am: https://www.spectator.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Rod-Getty.jpg There was a band decades ago that triggered the amygdalas of UK citizens, such that extreme actions by the state were considered to crush them... The lyrics to one of their songs were feared it would 'bring down the state'... and it goes something like this: God save the Queen, the fascist regime They made you a moron, A potential H bomb God save the Queen, She ain't no human being There is no future In England's dreaming Don't be told what you want, you want And don't be told what you want to need There's no future, no future, No future for you God save the Queen, We mean it, man We love our Queen, God saves God save the Queen, 'Cause tourists are money And our figurehead, is not what she seems God save history, God save your mad parade Oh lord God, have mercy, All crimes are paid When there's no future, how can there be sin? We're the flowers in the dustbin We're the poison in your human machine We're the future, your future God save the Queen, We mean it, man There is no future, In England's dreaming No future, No future, No future for you... Spoiler alert... It didn't bring down the state. :D :D :D The amygdala is now processing totally abstract moral concepts entirely enclosed in language, dealing with history, politics, manners. I do t think you even half understand what you are talking about. You're back, you mincing idiot... desperate as always... How was the chicken? The amygdala reference in context is a stand-in for 'raised the hackles', given the thread name.

;D ;D ;D

Give us another one!

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 5^th, 2025 at 11:19am:

Yadda wrote on Jul 5th, 2025 at 10:14am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 6:15pm: Frank wrote on Jul 4th, 2025 at 6:04pm: Incommensurate. Also a category mistake. Moral judgement is not made by biochemical processes. Values are not chemical and are not reducible to boochemistry. You can change your values. You cannot change your response to an electric current in your amygdala or your testes. Wait till you have dementia that has destroyed your insula when you're chowing down on a turd while exposing yoursef to an orderly in the home... something for you to look forward to, eh, Agatha Frank (they/them)... Yes, you can train yourself not to respond to amygdalic/insula recoil... so, go out and make as many friends as you can with Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs)... MeisterEckhart, Why do so ??? That, could be a very stupid decision. The paragraph was written tongue-in-cheek, given the poster...

Do you have anything with mind in gear?

Frank wrote on Jul 5^th, 2025 at 11:29am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 5th, 2025 at 11:17am: Frank wrote on Jul 5th, 2025 at 10:54am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 5th, 2025 at 8:56am: https://www.spectator.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/Rod-Getty.jpg There was a band decades ago that triggered the amygdalas of UK citizens, such that extreme actions by the state were considered to crush them... The lyrics to one of their songs were feared it would 'bring down the state'... and it goes something like this: God save the Queen, the fascist regime They made you a moron, A potential H bomb God save the Queen, She ain't no human being There is no future In England's dreaming Don't be told what you want, you want And don't be told what you want to need There's no future, no future, No future for you God save the Queen, We mean it, man We love our Queen, God saves God save the Queen, 'Cause tourists are money And our figurehead, is not what she seems God save history, God save your mad parade Oh lord God, have mercy, All crimes are paid When there's no future, how can there be sin? We're the flowers in the dustbin We're the poison in your human machine We're the future, your future God save the Queen, We mean it, man There is no future, In England's dreaming No future, No future, No future for you... Spoiler alert... It didn't bring down the state. :D :D :D The amygdala is now processing totally abstract moral concepts entirely enclosed in language, dealing with history, politics, manners. I do t think you even half understand what you are talking about. You're back, you mincing idiot... desperate as always... How was the chicken? The amygdala reference in context is a stand-in for 'raised the hackles', given the thread name. ;D ;D ;D Give us another one!

Who's 'us'?

Is that Agatha or Frank, Agatha Frank (they/them)?

What did you teach? Something to do with cheese?

Frank wrote on Jul 5^th, 2025 at 11:31am:

Do you have anything with mind in gear?

Yep... Meet those ethnics you recoil from... Not in a sexual way, of course... most of their cultures would throw you off a building for that...

It works for other phobias... why not with fear of Aboriginals, Africans, subcontinentals (specifically Pakistanis) and Middle Easterners (specifically Arabs)?

Sapolsky on the amygdala and the insula...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga0r4tTTWw0