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On the hunt Seeking a direct connection with what they eat, these hunters are turning away from packaged meat to stalk wild animals in Victoria’s forests. High on Cass Fleming’s bucket list is a desire to find hidden treasure while scuba diving. She also loves the thrill of a bargain hunt in a country op shop. So it’s no surprise, she says, to find her one wintry Friday morning on another kind of hunt. With a rifle slung over her shoulder, she abandons the safety of a gravel track and walks into thick scrub in Victoria’s High Country. Cass is on the hunt for sambar deer. It’s a long way from her desk in Melbourne where she works in IT. There are several species of deer in Victoria and sambar is one of the most common. It’s also the largest. “Sambar deer are regarded as being difficult to hunt, so there’s a sense of having to actually work for it,” Cass says. As well as her rifle, Cass carries her phone, a paper map and a GPS. She traces her movements as she heads for a vantage point in the forest. There is no path and Cass must be able to find her way back to her car. After walking for an hour or so, Cass has covered a mere 400 metres. It’s slow going trying to tread silently over twigs and logs and not alert an animal with far superior senses. If Cass manages to shoot a deer, she will butcher it on the spot and carry it out of the forest. This can mean multiple physically demanding trips to her car and back, carrying kilos of meat over streams and up and down gullies. For Cass, there’s pride in killing her own meat and in the skills she must master to take an animal’s life with an ethical shot. Cass is part of what some in the hunting community say is a rising trend in people from the cities learning to hunt wild game, driven by an interest in self-sufficiency. Cass has been hunting for less than two years, but as a long-range rifle shooter she was already familiar with firearms. “I enjoyed the precision that [long-range shooting] takes and the patience that you need to have to get an accurate shot from quite a distance,” she says. “Around the same time, I was thinking about the supply chain of food and where our meat comes from.” When she discovered through friends in her rifle shooting club that Victoria’s forests were riddled with deer, she wanted to learn how to hunt them. “I’ve always loved the bush, so it makes sense to me to spend more time in my favourite place. “And if I can, at the same time, source some really delicious fresh meat, then that’s a real bonus.” “Besides saving money by acquiring your own meat, you also get better-quality meat,” Wally says, adding that in Chinese culture there is a saying that venison is the best meat. Wally also wants his children to grow up knowing where food comes from beyond supermarket shelves. And he finds meaning in the pursuit. “I guess for me as a male, I would say to be able to provide for your family … when you give things out to your friends and family and say, ‘I shot this deer’, it’s like a story to tell and I think that’s the thing that’s missing in today’s world.” One of the main challenges for new hunters is finding places to hunt, so Wally created a social media page that connects hunters with landowners who have feral animal populations. Statistics show recreational deer hunting in Victoria is growing in popularity. According to the Game Management Authority, game licences with an entitlement to hunt deer have risen from around 7,000 in the mid-1990s to nearly 50,000 in 2023. The state government and the Invasive Species Council say deer pose a significant threat to the environment and the agricultural industry. They are simultaneously viewed as a pest — and government money is put aside each year to control them — but they are also a designated game species protected under the Wildlife Act. In his garage on the outskirts of Geelong, Chris butchers a leg of deer he killed and stored in his large, packed freezer chest. Chris says he grew up spearfishing but became interested in hunting when he moved further from the ocean. He says hunting and eating what he kills aligns with his core values and faith – Chris studied to be a pastor – to live healthily and consciously. “I can go and buy meat from the supermarket and feed it to my kids, but I have zero knowledge of what’s in there, even if I read the back of it.” “For me [hunting has] always been about food. I won’t ever go out and just shoot something for fun. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-02/deer-hunters-game-meat/103974062

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GROUND SHOOTING OF FERAL DEER (DEE001) STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE EQUIPMENT REQUIRED Firearms and ammunition • Large calibre, high powered centre-fire rifles fitted with a telescopic sight should be used. Conventional hollow-point or soft-nosed ammunition is adequate with good shot placement although controlled expansion projectiles are preferred to achieve greater penetration and weight retention and thus a rapid and humane death. • The calibre of rifle used will depend on the size and species of deer: o Small deer (hog and fallow deer): The minimum calibre is .243 with 100 grain projectile. Case length must be at least 51 mm. Smaller calibres (.222 or .223) with 70 grain ammunition may be adequate in skilled hand for smaller animals. o Large deer (chital and red deer including hybrids eg wapiti and rusa): The minimum calibre is .270 with minimum130 grain projectile. Case length must be at least 51 mm. o Sambar deer: The minimum calibre is .308 with minimum 150 grain projectile. Case length must be at least 51 mm. • An appropriate silencer fitted to the rifle (where allowed by a special permit). • Shotguns are NOT recommended for use on feral deer. If they must be used in an emergency situation to reduce the suffering of injured or wounded deer, then a 12 bore gauge with rifled slugs or SSG ammunition should be used, but the animal must be no more than 30 m away. • The accuracy and precision of firearms should be tested against inanimate targets prior to the commencement of any shooting operation. https://pestsmart.org.au/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/12/DEE001-SOP.pdf

I note that for Sambar the minimum calibre is.308, does that mean that the venerable .303 is not allowed?

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Jun 13^th, 2025 at 5:05pm:

I note that for Sambar the minimum calibre is.308, does that mean that the venerable .303 is not allowed?

I wouldn't use a .303 for Sambar not a fan of .303 ballistics aren't good.

Does that mean 7mm Remington Magnum isn't allowed when it packs a far greater wallop than a .308?

Australian Outback ammo .308 150 gr  2800 fps muzzle velocity

7mm-08 is basically a necked down .308 150 gr 2750 fps, smalled diameter = greater penetration

.280 Ackley Improved sends 150 gr down at 3000 fps

I would suggest it's more a guide for what sort of wallop your ammo will provide if it compares it should be ok.

Probably a good example of why rules should be written by those who understand guns instead of some pen pusher in an office.

Why I wondered is because .303 is greater in diameter than .308

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Jun 14^th, 2025 at 8:24pm:

Why I wondered is because .303 is greater in diameter than .308

The .303 is measured at the lands of the rifling, .303 vs the bore between the lands .311. Strangely the .308 is vis versa, The lands are 7.62(.300 ), it's NATO designation but the .308 comes from the bore between the lands. The case lengths are in there to stop people trying to use 7.62x39 russian or .44 magnum type fidgets.

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Jun 14^th, 2025 at 8:24pm:

Why I wondered is because .303 is greater in diameter than .308

Yes that is true.

Not as much .303 ammo around companies that make projectiles don't have much product for .303 which is why i don't like it.

The 28 Nosler sends 185 gr down at 3000fps since it's .284 do you have to ask if it's OK for Sambar?

BC of 0.719 shows 7mm has a sweet spot between 140-185Gr

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I think that the Nosler would do the job well, definitely time for ballisticians to be consulted and not just public servants when laws are framed.

I am surprsied nobody has commented on use of silencers from pestsmart link with Deer shooting.

Might stop cases like this where hoplophobic bedwetters from the cities go on a country drive and freak out when they hear gunshots.


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Police say target shooting practice behind Sunshine Coast emergency declaration Police say target shooting practice was behind an emergency declaration which briefly shut parts of the Bruce Highway north of Brisbane on Friday afternoon. Emergency services responded to reports of shots fired on the Bruce Highway near Coles Creek on the Sunshine Coast, shortly after midday. Police are currently speaking to people on a nearby property. Afternoon punctuated by sirens Simone Thompson was out fencing a few kilometres from the highway when she heard what sounded like gunshots. She and her colleagues at the pet boarding house initially "joked" about gunfire. But she said the afternoon had been punctuated by sirens. "It's just been a barrage of police and sirens and helicopters are still circling over us,"  she said. "They just have not stopped circling. They keep coming back and getting lower and lower." Police set up road blocks after reports of shots fired near the Bruce Highway. The earlier emergency declaration has been revoked, and the Bruce Highway has now reopened. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-05-09/police-responding-to-reports-of-shots-fired-on-bruce-highway/105274512

A couple of licensed gun owners with registered guns were testing ammo on private property which is legal gun use.

For Sambar they say 150gr minimum from a .308

The Americans who have been hunting Deer longer than we have say say you need at least 1000 ftlbs of energy for ethical one shot kill with Deer.

Perhaps a better guide would be minimum projectile weight with minimum required energy.

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UK removes restrictions on licensed firearm owners having sound moderators.

We should do the same thing here.

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Long may silencers be banned in Australia for general use.
First, for safety, because gunshots are a warning to others in the area that shooting is taking place.

Second, for conservation, because gunshots are a warning to animals that humans are around and it’s time to hide, thus giving the animals more of a chance.

People who want the advantage of silence can always use a bow.

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2025 at 11:30am:

Long may silencers be banned in Australia for general use. First, for safety, because gunshots are a warning to others in the area that shooting is taking place.

Those who are shooting should know what is behind their target in case they miss.

A study on Silencers by Edith Cowan University.
https://ro.ecu.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1857&context=ecuworks2011

Don't silencers build up in carbon quickly?
I don't think snipers use them in Ukraine with constant use.

Jasin wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2025 at 5:10pm:

Don't silencers build up in carbon quickly? I don't think snipers use them in Ukraine with constant use.

They kinda hide the BANG, not the sonic boom/crack but the explosive sound and it's direction, hide the smoke and muzzle flash, I'm sure they use them. They won't carbon foul with the amount of shooting a sniper would do and can be disassembled and cleaned.

Interesting link, a bit out in in some observations but generally not bad, although some of their contentions are rather funny.
I note that they are open about silencers doing nothing to reduce ballistic crack, which is heard as the projectile passes and is heard distinctly until the bullet drops below the sound barrier..

Back in the day when silencers were freely available there was not much demand for them and I can only remember one brand being on.offer, possibly most people who wanted one made their own as continued as the laws tightened.

One great potential disadvantage of their widespread use is the firing of sub-sonic ammunition [which they do silence] in backyards and the consequent danger of unintended woundings or fatalities.

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2025 at 6:07pm:

Interesting link, a bit out in in some observations but generally not bad, although some of their contentions are rather funny. I note that they are open about silencers doing nothing to reduce ballistic crack, which is heard as the projectile passes and is heard distinctly until the bullet drops below the sound barrier.. Back in the day when silencers were freely available there was not much demand for them and I can only remember one brand being on.offer, possibly most people who wanted one made their own as continued as the laws tightened. One great potential disadvantage of their widespread use is the firing of sub-sonic ammunition [which they do silence] in backyards and the consequent danger of unintended woundings or fatalities.

Subsonics like .22 z out of a long barrel, are no louder than an air rifle anyway. Don't need silencers for them. Larger calibres, yep.

Setanta wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2025 at 5:32pm:

Jasin wrote on Jun 23rd, 2025 at 5:10pm: Don't silencers build up in carbon quickly? I don't think snipers use them in Ukraine with constant use. They kinda hide the BANG, not the sonic boom/crack but the explosive sound and it's direction, hide the smoke and muzzle flash, I'm sure they use them. They won't carbon foul with the amount of shooting a sniper would do and can be disassembled and cleaned.

I see. Thanks.

Oi!

What's a peace lovin' hippy like you knowing so much about guns? :-?

Setanta wrote on Jun 23^rd, 2025 at 6:33pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Jun 23rd, 2025 at 6:07pm: Interesting link, a bit out in in some observations but generally not bad, although some of their contentions are rather funny. I note that they are open about silencers doing nothing to reduce ballistic crack, which is heard as the projectile passes and is heard distinctly until the bullet drops below the sound barrier.. Back in the day when silencers were freely available there was not much demand for them and I can only remember one brand being on.offer, possibly most people who wanted one made their own as continued as the laws tightened. One great potential disadvantage of their widespread use is the firing of sub-sonic ammunition [which they do silence] in backyards and the consequent danger of unintended woundings or fatalities. Subsonics like .22 z out of a long barrel, are no louder than an air rifle anyway. Don't need silencers for them. Larger calibres, yep.

Subsonics lose a lot of power compared to supersonic

Kinetic energy is mass x velocity squared/2
Since velocity is squared the speed reduction has huge impact on energy.

Target shooters with .22lr prefer subsonics the transition from supersonic to subsonic does weird things with accuracy.

A silencer on a .308 rifle can reduce the sound of a gunshot by approximately 25-35 decibels. This reduction can bring the sound level down to a range of 130-140 dB

‘’Target shooters with .22lr prefer subsonics the transition from supersonic to subsonic does weird things with accuracy.’’
Never noticed that and I have fired many thousands of high velocity rounds in accuracy tesrs.

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Jun 24^th, 2025 at 12:04pm:

‘’Target shooters with .22lr prefer subsonics the transition from supersonic to subsonic does weird things with accuracy.’’ Never noticed that and I have fired many thousands of high velocity rounds in accuracy tesrs.

Hunting accuracy doesn't matter as much if 1-2 mm off doesn't make any difference in competitions that can be huge

Competition shooters chase that last bit for accuracy those who win gold and silver at Olympics all use subsonics with .22lr

With long range centrefire you might look at range where round stays supersonic when choosing caliber for extreme accuracy

Take note of Max SS range column

The other factor is higher BC means less drop and blown less sideways in cross wing making that round more accurate.

You might see why i prefer 7mm-08 over .308

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Which has nowt to do with suppressing noise.

I don’t think that legally possessing the means to silence shots in urban areas has much going for it