In the last year.

So much for global warming  ;D

Anyone mentioning this stat will be labeled as "clime change denier", you cannot question, science is fact and cannot be challenged.

AI Overview

While Antarctica may experience regional sea ice gains in certain areas, it is not accurate to say that the continent as a whole is gaining 180 billion tons of ice annually. In fact, studies indicate that Antarctica is losing ice mass, with some studies showing that 180 billion tons of ice are melting and entering the ocean each year. This melting ice contributes to sea level rise.

Here's a more detailed explanation:

Antarctica's Ice Sheet:
Antarctica is primarily covered by a massive ice sheet, which stores about 90% of the world's ice and 70% of its freshwater.

Melting Ice:
Studies have shown that the Antarctic ice sheet is losing ice mass, with some research indicating a significant increase in melting rates.

Sea Level Rise:
This melting ice, including the 180 billion tons mentioned, contributes to global sea level rise.

Sea Ice:
While Antarctic sea ice exhibits regional variability, with some areas showing increased ice extent and others showing declines, overall, Antarctic sea ice does not exhibit a significant overall trend compared to the Arctic, where sea ice is clearly declining.

Regional Variations:
Some regions, like the Ross Sea, have shown increases in sea ice extent, while others, particularly around the Antarctic Peninsula, have experienced declines.



It's amazing when science is used !

One thing global superpowers will not deny is the urgent need to realign the power dynamics of the Arctic as its ice melts, making viable a massive increase of shipping through its waters.

It's the core reason Trump went off his c~nt about Canada and Greenland... and the reason Canada is purchasing Australia's over-the-horizon surveillance system.

Imagine time travelling all the people alive in 1925 to right now. The massive shock they would experience.

It's predicted that by 2029, the radical change from 2025 will be similar.

All these people hiding behind cherry picked stats to back an opinions. It no longer matters. ASI will be in charge.

Warming air gains more evaporation which falls as snow. Antarctic and Arctic ice area are both at 2nd lowest in recent records due to warming seas. Arctic volume is also near record low in recent times.
https://nsidc.org/sea-ice-today/sea-ice-tools/charctic-interactive-sea-ice-graph

Ai_Took_Our_Jobs wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 2:30pm:

In fact, studies indicate that Antarctica is losing ice mass, with some studies showing that 180 billion tons of ice are melting and entering the ocean each year.

No. Overall Antarctica is gaining mass. East Antarctica alone was losing mass.

"However, a recent study led by Dr. Wang and Prof. Shen at Tongji University has found a surprising shift: between 2021 and 2023, the AIS experienced a record-breaking increase in overall mass."

...

"Notably, four major glaciers in the Wilkes Land–Queen Mary Land region of East Antarctica reversed their previous pattern of accelerated mass loss from 2011 to 2020 and instead showed significant mass gain during the 2021 to 2023 period."

https://scitechdaily.com/antarcticas-astonishing-rebound-ice-sheet-grows-for-the-first-time-in-decades/

AIS - Antarctic Ice Sheet. The whole lot combined

https://scitechdaily.com/images/Antarctic-Ice-Sheets-Mass-DramaFrom-Accelerated-Loss-to-Surprising-Gain-777x351.jpg

"Notably, four major glaciers in the Wilkes Land–Queen Mary Land region of East Antarctica reversed their previous pattern of accelerated mass loss from 2011 to 2020 and instead showed significant mass gain during the 2021 to 2023 period."

aquascoot wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 2:26pm:

In the last year. So much for global warming  ;D

Wow.

It's almost as if you're proud of your ignorance.

"However, this isn't a sign that global warming and climate change have miraculously reversed. Picture a long ski slope with a small jump at the end. That's what a line through the Antarctic ice sheet data looks like when plotted on a graph. While there have been some recent ice gains, they don't even begin to make up for almost 20 years of losses."


"Climate change doesn't mean that everywhere on Earth will get hotter at the same rate, so a single region will never tell the whole story of our warming world. Historically, temperatures over much of Antarctica have remained relatively stable, particularly compared to the Arctic, which has cooked four times faster than the rest of the globe. Antarctica's sea ice has also been much more stable relative to the Arctic, but that's been changing in recent years."

greggerypeccary wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 3:58pm:

"However, this isn't a sign that global warming and climate change have miraculously reversed.

And how does the writer know that? It may be, it may not be. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

It must be scientists and their ouija boards again. ;)

Antarctic sea ice area changed to below average (two standard deviations) from 2017, as in 2019, -22, -23, -24 and so far -25. A polar loop of warmer water is active while snow increases indicating more sea-evaporation.

From your link Lee....What the experts say!!!


Quote:

Enhanced mass loss of the Totten, Moscow, Denman, and Vincennes Bay glacier basins, East Antarctica The four key glacier basins in WL-QML region, i.e., Totten, Moscow University, Denman, and Vincennes Bay, exhibited mass loss intensification with a rate of 47.64±8.14 Gt/yr during 2011-2020, compared to 2002-2010, with the loss area expanding inland. The researchers explained “this accelerated mass loss was primarily driven by two factors: surface mass reduction (contributing 72.53%) and increased ice discharge (27.47%).” Notably, the complete disintegration of these four glaciers could potentially trigger a global mean sea level rise exceeding 7 meters. Their pronounced ablation patterns already constitute a critical climate warning signal, warranting greater scientific attention to their stability. Reference: “Spatiotemporal mass change rate analysis from 2002 to 2023 over the Antarctic Ice Sheet and four glacier basins in Wilkes-Queen Mary Land” by Wei Wang, Yunzhong Shen, Qiujie Chen, Fengwei Wang and Yangkang Yu, 19 March 2025, Science China Earth Sciences.

https://scitechdaily.com/antarcticas-astonishing-rebound-ice-sheet-grows-for-the-first-time-in-decades/

8-) 8-) 8-)

lee wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 3:48pm:

Ai_Took_Our_Jobs wrote on May 15th, 2025 at 2:30pm: In fact, studies indicate that Antarctica is losing ice mass, with some studies showing that 180 billion tons of ice are melting and entering the ocean each year. No. Overall Antarctica is gaining mass. East Antarctica alone was losing mass. "However, a recent study led by Dr. Wang and Prof. Shen at Tongji University has found a surprising shift: between 2021 and 2023, the AIS experienced a record-breaking increase in overall mass."

The Full Paragraph :

Previous studies have consistently shown a long-term trend of mass loss, particularly in West Antarctica and the Antarctic Peninsula, while glaciers in East Antarctica appeared relatively stable. However, a recent study led by Dr. Wang and Prof. Shen at Tongji University has found a surprising shift: between 2021 and 2023, the AIS experienced a record-breaking increase in overall mass.

philperth2010 wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 4:06pm:

Notably, the complete disintegration of these four glaciers could potentially trigger a global mean sea level rise exceeding 7 meters. Their pronounced ablation patterns already constitute a critical climate warning signal, warranting greater scientific attention to their stability.

And the SLR is still about 3mm per year. Potential? What is the time line on this "potential". At 3mm per year that would be 2100 years or thereabouts., Oh noes PANIC. ;D ;D ;D ;D

lee wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 4:03pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on May 15th, 2025 at 3:58pm: "However, this isn't a sign that global warming and climate change have miraculously reversed. And how does the writer know that? It may be, it may not be. It must be scientists ...

Of course it's scientists.

You not a fan of data, science and scientists?

You'd rather get your "facts" from Sky "News"?

"An abrupt change in Antarctica has caused the continent to gain ice. But this increase, documented in NASA satellite data, is a temporary anomaly rather than an indication that global warming has reversed, scientists say."

lee wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 4:10pm:

philperth2010 wrote on May 15th, 2025 at 4:06pm: Enhanced mass loss of the Totten, Moscow, Denman, and Vincennes Bay glacier basins, East Antarctica The four key glacier basins in WL-QML region, i.e., Totten, Moscow University, Denman, and Vincennes Bay, exhibited mass loss intensification with a rate of 47.64±8.14 Gt/yr during 2011-2020, compared to 2002-2010, with the loss area expanding inland. The researchers explained “this accelerated mass loss was primarily driven by two factors: surface mass reduction (contributing 72.53%) and increased ice discharge (27.47%).” Notably, the complete disintegration of these four glaciers could potentially trigger a global mean sea level rise exceeding 7 meters. Their pronounced ablation patterns already constitute a critical climate warning signal, warranting greater scientific attention to their stability. Reference: “Spatiotemporal mass change rate analysis from 2002 to 2023 over the Antarctic Ice Sheet and four glacier basins in Wilkes-Queen Mary Land” by Wei Wang, Yunzhong Shen, Qiujie Chen, Fengwei Wang and Yangkang Yu, 19 March 2025, Science China Earth Sciences. And the SLR is still about 3mm per year. Potential? What is the time line on this "potential". At 3mm per year that would be 2100 years or thereabouts., Oh noes PANIC.

From the experts you chose to quote....A critical climate warning signal....The message is clear!!!

https://scitechdaily.com/antarcticas-astonishing-rebound-ice-sheet-grows-for-the-first-time-in-decades/

::) ::) ::)

greggerypeccary wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 4:12pm:

You not a fan of data, science and scientists?

I am a big fan of data, which is why I said it might or might not be a reversal of Climate Change. The scientists not using data? Not so much. Climate models are not data, even if they did run it through one in so short a time frame. Merely a "trust us, we KNOW things" scenario. ;)

philperth2010 wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 4:15pm:

From the experts you chose to quote....A critical climate warning signal....The message is clear!!!

Which message phil? That the ice will vanish in the near term, the mid term, the long term? That Global Warming cannot be reversed? ;)

lee wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 4:19pm:

philperth2010 wrote on May 15th, 2025 at 4:15pm: From the experts you chose to quote....A critical climate warning signal....The message is clear!!! Which message phil? That the ice will vanish in the near term, the mid term, the long term? That Global Warming cannot be reversed? ;)

Hence reducing CO2 from burning fossil fuel....Are you on board now Lee???

:-? :-? :-?

philperth2010 wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 4:15pm:

lee wrote on May 15th, 2025 at 4:10pm: philperth2010 wrote on May 15th, 2025 at 4:06pm: Enhanced mass loss of the Totten, Moscow, Denman, and Vincennes Bay glacier basins, East Antarctica The four key glacier basins in WL-QML region, i.e., Totten, Moscow University, Denman, and Vincennes Bay, exhibited mass loss intensification with a rate of 47.64±8.14 Gt/yr during 2011-2020, compared to 2002-2010, with the loss area expanding inland. The researchers explained “this accelerated mass loss was primarily driven by two factors: surface mass reduction (contributing 72.53%) and increased ice discharge (27.47%).” Notably, the complete disintegration of these four glaciers could potentially trigger a global mean sea level rise exceeding 7 meters. Their pronounced ablation patterns already constitute a critical climate warning signal, warranting greater scientific attention to their stability. Reference: “Spatiotemporal mass change rate analysis from 2002 to 2023 over the Antarctic Ice Sheet and four glacier basins in Wilkes-Queen Mary Land” by Wei Wang, Yunzhong Shen, Qiujie Chen, Fengwei Wang and Yangkang Yu, 19 March 2025, Science China Earth Sciences. And the SLR is still about 3mm per year. Potential? What is the time line on this "potential". At 3mm per year that would be 2100 years or thereabouts., Oh noes PANIC. From the experts you chose to quote....A critical climate warning signal....The message is clear!!! https://scitechdaily.com/antarcticas-astonishing-rebound-ice-sheet-grows-for-the-first-time-in-decades/ ::) ::) ::)

Who should we believe - scientists, or lee?   :-/

'Antarctic waters are warming, particularly in areas like the West Antarctic Peninsula, where sea surface temperatures have increased by over 1°C (1.8°F) since 1955. This warming, influenced by greenhouse gas emissions, is impacting the Antarctic Circumpolar Current (ACC), the world's strongest ocean current, leading to a potential 20% reduction in its strength by 2050 under a high carbon emissions scenario. Warming waters are also causing ice shelf melting, especially under the West and East Antarctic ice sheets. '
https://www.asoc.org/learn/heating-oceans/

The weather changes every day.

Look at the Night side of Earth where all those millions of heat generating cities and towns fight against what cooling effect the Night side would offer.
Humanity is a part of nature and thus it is a natural path to heat up the world to free up more land and maybe even Green Antarctica for easier habitation and Real Estate agents.

Throw in the increase in radiation from nukes and an acceleration of genetic mutations might please Marvel Superhero fans.

All in all, remember. Humanity isn't the only intelligent species on this planet.  ;D

Jasin wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 4:42pm:

The weather changes every day.

The weather changes every day.


The weather changes every day.

Green Antarctica for easier habitation and Real Estate agents.
the only intelligent species
jAsin rote tHis

greggerypeccary wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 4:24pm:

philperth2010 wrote on May 15th, 2025 at 4:15pm: lee wrote on May 15th, 2025 at 4:10pm: philperth2010 wrote on May 15th, 2025 at 4:06pm: Enhanced mass loss of the Totten, Moscow, Denman, and Vincennes Bay glacier basins, East Antarctica The four key glacier basins in WL-QML region, i.e., Totten, Moscow University, Denman, and Vincennes Bay, exhibited mass loss intensification with a rate of 47.64±8.14 Gt/yr during 2011-2020, compared to 2002-2010, with the loss area expanding inland. The researchers explained “this accelerated mass loss was primarily driven by two factors: surface mass reduction (contributing 72.53%) and increased ice discharge (27.47%).” Notably, the complete disintegration of these four glaciers could potentially trigger a global mean sea level rise exceeding 7 meters. Their pronounced ablation patterns already constitute a critical climate warning signal, warranting greater scientific attention to their stability. Reference: “Spatiotemporal mass change rate analysis from 2002 to 2023 over the Antarctic Ice Sheet and four glacier basins in Wilkes-Queen Mary Land” by Wei Wang, Yunzhong Shen, Qiujie Chen, Fengwei Wang and Yangkang Yu, 19 March 2025, Science China Earth Sciences. And the SLR is still about 3mm per year. Potential? What is the time line on this "potential". At 3mm per year that would be 2100 years or thereabouts., Oh noes PANIC. From the experts you chose to quote....A critical climate warning signal....The message is clear!!! https://scitechdaily.com/antarcticas-astonishing-rebound-ice-sheet-grows-for-the-first-time-in-decades/ ::) ::) ::) Who should we believe - scientists, or lee?   :-/

Is there such a thing as alternative science or selective science....I think Lee has mastered the art!!!

8-) 8-) 8-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAqhKKvlZmM


For the ardent researcher after truth - here are the lyrics:-

https://genius.com/Tiny-tim-the-other-side-lyrics

greggerypeccary wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 4:24pm:

Who should we believe - scientists, or lee?

Are the scientists relying on data or speculation? ;)

philperth2010 wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 4:56pm:

Is there such a thing as alternative science or selective science.

No there is just science. It relies on data. Not speculation. ;)

lee wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 5:54pm:

philperth2010 wrote on May 15th, 2025 at 4:56pm: Is there such a thing as alternative science or selective science. No there is just science. It relies on data. Not speculation. ;)

It relies on both.

"Scientific inquiry often involves speculation, particularly in the early stages of investigation when scientists are formulating hypotheses and developing research questions. Speculation can help generate ideas, explore new avenues of research, and lead to the development of testable theories."

chimera wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 4:31pm:

This warming, influenced by greenhouse gas emissions, is impacting the Antarctic Circumpolar Current (ACC), the world's strongest ocean current, leading to a potential 20% reduction in its strength by 2050 under a high carbon emissions scenario.

Oh the High emissions scenario. The flawed RCP8.5. That's not data. It  is so flawed it is not even speculation. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

BTW- you do know there was NO measurement of the Antarctic Circumpolar Current until recently? Most of the papers in the reference section talk of the models. Once again MODELS are not DATA.

greggerypeccary wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 6:03pm:

"Scientific inquiry often involves speculation, particularly in the early stages of investigation when scientists are formulating hypotheses and developing research questions.

So in the early stages. So are we in the "early", "mid" or "late" stages? ;)

Speculation is not data. Does the speculation match the data? Or is it too early to go full blown alarmist? It is data on which scientists should rely. ;)

lee wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 6:06pm:

Most of the papers in the reference section talk of the models.

Show where that is done. The ones I read are data.
Ths NSIDC graphs I quoted are data.

chimera wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 4:51pm:

Jasin wrote on May 15th, 2025 at 4:42pm: The weather changes every day. The weather changes every day. The weather changes every day. Green Antarctica for easier habitation and Real Estate agents. the only intelligent species jAsin rote tHis

I sure did.  :D

lee wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 6:10pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on May 15th, 2025 at 6:03pm: "Scientific inquiry often involves speculation, particularly in the early stages of investigation when scientists are formulating hypotheses and developing research questions. So in the early stages. So are we in the "early", "mid" or "late" stages? ;) Speculation is not data. Does the speculation match the data? Or is it too early to go full blown alarmist? It is data on which scientists should rely. ;)

Once again - here is a thing I posted elsewhere:-

"Of course - a mistake often made is assuming that a 'study' is finished and complete and reflects full 'truth' or 'reality' - when it is a contributing part of developing knowledge.... all knowledge is constantly evolving. There is no 'The Science' as in some finished product."

© The Grappler 2025

chimera wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 6:28pm:

Ths NSIDC graphs I quoted are data.

The Sea Ice "Data" from NSIDC is obtained from satellite. The satellites have difficulty with distinguishing water from ice. They also smooth the output. Once you smooth the output it is no longer data,

"This page shows northern and southern hemisphere daily sea-ice extent timeseries and concentration maps estimated from satellite data onward from late 1978. The timeseries source is the Sea Ice Index developed by the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC). Each daily value represents a 5-day mean to smooth noise in the satellite data. The sea-ice concentration maps are generated from 0.5°x0.5° analysis fields from the NCEP Climate Forecast System. Click the cursor on a timeseries data value to update the corresponding map. NSIDC maintains a web interface for the Sea Ice Index here. Data and maps update daily with a one-day lag from observations. "

https://climatereanalyzer.org/clim/seaice_daily/

A 0.5x0.5 grid at the poles (actually about 66 degrees x 80 degrees rather than 90) is about 55 sq km. ;)

Yes, data and not model.
Where are the models you claim are the basis of the article?

chimera wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 7:19pm:

Yes, data and not model.

What do you think the smoothing is? ::)

And then the fudge factor of 55 sq km. ;)

Smoothing is a trend line for standard data. It's irrational to demand sq metres in a sea.
No models yet?

chimera wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 7:54pm:

It's irrational to demand sq metres in a sea.

Really? Square km's have nothing to do with sea ice extent (AREA)? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


chimera wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 7:54pm:

No models yet?

What do you think they use for smoothing? An algorithm. An algorithm is used to produce a modelled output.

"A model in data science is the output produced when an algorithm applies to a specific dataset."

https://medium.com/@wilsonkai/what-is-a-model-vs-algorithm-0a70788e63b1

The icecaps are melting at such a rate that the ice is piling up higher and higher.... we're all doomed!

https://i.imgflip.com/9u2xwd.jpg

The Arctic is 14mill sq kms. A 55sq km area is appropriate for a total area trend. 

'Data smoothing is done by using an algorithm to remove noise from a data set. This allows important patterns to more clearly stand out. Data smoothing can be used to help predict trends, such as those found in securities prices, as well as in economic analysis. Data smoothing is intended to ignore one-time outliers and take into account the effects of seasonality.'

Compared to speculation, the smoothed data is correct for the basic q.: is the total area or volume changing significantly?

'The method classifies surface coverage into three main categories: snow and bare ice, melt ponds and submerged ice, and open water. The method is demonstrated on imagery from four sensor platforms and on imagery spanning from spring thaw to fall freeze-up. Tests show the classification accuracy of this method typically exceeds 96 %'.   
https://tc.copernicus.org/articles/12/1307/2018/tc-12-1307-2018.pdf

'The overall classification accuracy for the four general classes is 95.5% based on 178 ground reference objects. Furthermore, the producer's accuracy of 90.8% and user's accuracy of 91.8% are achieved for melt pond detection through 98 independent reference objects'.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0165232X15001433

As not all Australia's houses have reported today's temperature, it is likely that we are under 3 metres of snow.

philperth2010 wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 4:56pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on May 15th, 2025 at 4:24pm: philperth2010 wrote on May 15th, 2025 at 4:15pm: lee wrote on May 15th, 2025 at 4:10pm: philperth2010 wrote on May 15th, 2025 at 4:06pm: Enhanced mass loss of the Totten, Moscow, Denman, and Vincennes Bay glacier basins, East Antarctica The four key glacier basins in WL-QML region, i.e., Totten, Moscow University, Denman, and Vincennes Bay, exhibited mass loss intensification with a rate of 47.64±8.14 Gt/yr during 2011-2020, compared to 2002-2010, with the loss area expanding inland. The researchers explained “this accelerated mass loss was primarily driven by two factors: surface mass reduction (contributing 72.53%) and increased ice discharge (27.47%).” Notably, the complete disintegration of these four glaciers could potentially trigger a global mean sea level rise exceeding 7 meters. Their pronounced ablation patterns already constitute a critical climate warning signal, warranting greater scientific attention to their stability. Reference: “Spatiotemporal mass change rate analysis from 2002 to 2023 over the Antarctic Ice Sheet and four glacier basins in Wilkes-Queen Mary Land” by Wei Wang, Yunzhong Shen, Qiujie Chen, Fengwei Wang and Yangkang Yu, 19 March 2025, Science China Earth Sciences. And the SLR is still about 3mm per year. Potential? What is the time line on this "potential". At 3mm per year that would be 2100 years or thereabouts., Oh noes PANIC. From the experts you chose to quote....A critical climate warning signal....The message is clear!!! https://scitechdaily.com/antarcticas-astonishing-rebound-ice-sheet-grows-for-the-first-time-in-decades/ ::) ::) ::) Who should we believe - scientists, or lee?   :-/ Is there such a thing as alternative science or selective science....I think Lee has mastered the art!!! 8-) 8-) 8-)

There has been in the past & more so now "Bought Science" aka science for hire.

It's all about money.

'Ship voyages in the Arctic have increased significantly due to declining sea ice, opening up new routes and making the region more accessible to ships. From 2013 to 2023, the number of unique ships operating in the Arctic Polar Code area increased by 37%, and the distance they sailed increased by 111%'.

Science uses thermometers and ship-owners use dollars.

chimera wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 7:51am:

The Arctic is 14mill sq kms. A 55sq km area is appropriate for a total area trend.

A 55 sq km is the size of ONE 0.5x0.5 grid. Grid size area increases as you get further away from the poles. If they were all one area it would take over 254,000 grid cells, each with its own error bars. ;)


chimera wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 7:51am:

Compared to speculation, the smoothed data is correct for the basic q.: is the total area or volume changing significantly?

So you say there are no error bars in their calculations. R-i-i-ght. ;D ;D ;D ;D

"As 1 example year, we find that in 2015 the average observational uncertainties of the SIA are 306 000 km2 for daily estimates, 275 000 km2 for weekly estimates, and 164 000 km2 for monthly estimates. "

https://tc.copernicus.org/articles/18/2473/2024/

BTW - Multiple measurements do NOT decrease uncertainty. So they are wrong about that.


chimera wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 8:15am:

ests show the classification accuracy of this method typically exceeds 96 %'.

So let's see only 4% wrong. How much is 4% you ask? Only 560,000 sq km. Good enough for government work.


chimera wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 12:41pm:

'Ship voyages in the Arctic have increased significantly due to declining sea ice, opening up new routes and making the region more accessible to ships. From 2013 to 2023, the number of unique ships operating in the Arctic Polar Code area increased by 37%, and the distance they sailed increased by 111%'. Science uses thermometers and ship-owners use dollars.

And they STILL use ice breakers. Russia is building bigger and stronger, why is that? Ship owners build ice breakers. Could it be Sea Ice also hasoscillations, you know like AMO and most things, or is it all Climate Change? ;)

lee wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 1:06pm:

"As 1 example year, we find that in 2015 the average observational uncertainties of the SIA are 306 000 km2 for daily estimates, 275 000 km2 for weekly estimates, and 164 000 km2 for monthly estimates. "

That's about 1.2- 2.1%.
'In 2025, Arctic sea ice volume .. a 35% drop compared to the long-term average (1993-2010). The sea ice extent, at 13.98 million km², is also 6% below the long-term average.'


chimera wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 12:41pm:

'Ship voyages in the Arctic have increased significantly due to declining sea ice, opening up new routes and making the region more accessible to ships. From 2013 to 2023, the number of unique ships operating in the Arctic Polar Code area increased by 37%, and the distance they sailed increased by 111%'.

And they still use woollen socks and watch for icebergs. About 111% more often. And avoid 96.8395% of them, sailing down the trend line to lee-ward (who is 85% desperate and 15% hair-splitting).

chimera wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 2:17pm:

That's about 1.2- 2.1%. 'In 2025, Arctic sea ice volume .. a 35% drop compared to the long-term average (1993-2010). The sea ice extent, at 13.98 million km², is also 6% below the long-term average.'

Your reference said 4%. That's what I was using.  ;)

chimera wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 8:15am:

Tests show the classification accuracy of this method typically exceeds 96 %

You do know sea ice was increasing before satellites, don't you? What does that tell you? Probably nothing. To you, it is all doom and gloom.

But tell us just exactly is the long-term average? What is the timeframe of this long-term average? ::)


chimera wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 2:17pm:

And they still use woollen socks and watch for icebergs

Yes they do. And still not ice free Arctic. They even had to change the meaning of "ice free". Now it is only 1 million sq kms. So only about 1400% above ice free. ;)

Dear lee,
Accuracy of a photo % is not volume of ice %.
100 ships is less than 211 ships. 
211
-100
-------
111.
There are 111% more ships with woollen socks and icebergs.

chimera wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 2:48pm:

Accuracy of a photo % is not volume of ice %.

So now you are using volume rather than extent? What is the accuracy of the volume level?

"Sea Ice Volume is calculated using the Pan-Arctic Ice Ocean Modeling and Assimilation System (PIOMAS, Zhang and Rothrock, 2003) developed at APL/PSC. "

https://psc.apl.uw.edu/research/projects/arctic-sea-ice-volume-anomaly/


chimera wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 2:48pm:

There are 111% more ships with woollen socks and icebergs.

How did you calculate the 111% more icebergs? ;)

The Wicked Witch of the West suffered global warming.

chimera wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 8:15am:

The method is demonstrated on imagery from four sensor platforms and on imagery spanning from spring thaw to fall freeze-up. Tests show the classification accuracy of this method typically exceeds 96 %'.    https://tc.copernicus.org/articles/12/1307/2018/tc-12-1307-2018.pdf 'The overall classification accuracy for the four general classes is 95.5% based on 178 ground reference objects. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0165232X15001433

Photo accuracy, not volume amount %.

chimera wrote Today at 2:17pm:
'In 2025, Arctic sea ice volume .. a 35% drop.  The sea ice extent, , is also 6% below the long-term average.'

Man on ship sees an iceberg. On 2 ships, men see two times= 2 icebergs. Of ice. They wear woollen socks. Two each. 4 socks. At two icebergs. 111 ships is S3^ 6 (a2 -3x+y)4 / dy/dx (g+Mc2) = 111 icebergs (approximately trend <km2./ GPS>GST)

chimera wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 5:16pm:

Photo accuracy, not volume amount %.

And? What about those MODELS they use to ESTIMATE sea ice volume?


chimera wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 5:16pm:

Man on ship sees an iceberg. On 2 ships, men see two times= 2 icebergs.

Only if there are 2 icebergs. Otherwise, they see the same iceberg.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

So you are just bullschiting again. Thanks. ;D ;D ;D ;D

No the photos are used when smoothed due to accuracy.
There is more than 1 course for a ship in a sea. Two ships have two routes. One goes south of the other, which goes north of the first one. Two ships, two paths. An iceberg to the south is not the same one to the north. Different icebergs. Same colour. In the sea you see. 

chimera wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 5:57pm:

No the photos are used when smoothed due to accuracy.

Photos are not that sharp from space. ;)


chimera wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 5:57pm:

There is more than 1 course for a ship in a sea.

Now you are adding more lines of complexity because your original hypothesis didn't stand up. There MAY be two routes or they may follow the same route. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Even IF they take different routes one going north of the other, there is nothing to say it is not the same iceberg, just the same one from a different perspective.

aquascoot wrote on May 15^th, 2025 at 2:26pm:

In the last year. So much for global warming  ;D

What makes every climate change denying dodo think he knows more on the subject than every expert on the subject, the science on the subject
- and the evidence on the subject ?

Of course, sometimes ''dimwit logic'' comes into play when reading the slight expansion of surface area
- but ignoring the rapidly diminishing sea ice thickness - bringing in an overall diminishment in Antarctic sea ice

All of the evidence on the effects of climate change is out there
- but I'll be BUGGERED if 'll be looking it up for anyone, AGAIN




.

lee wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 6:14pm:

chimera wrote on May 16th, 2025 at 5:57pm: There is more than 1 course for a ship in a sea. Now you are adding more lines of complexity

Sorry about that.
Ships will now move from A to B in one straight line. Photos will prove it. Icebergs will be numbered  1- 57,935,842 and recorded for mass/ colour/ nationality/ use by/ temperature.
Lee will collect and keep for security and control.

buzzanddidj wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 6:19pm:

All of the evidence on the effects of climate change is out there - but I'll be BUGGERED if 'll be looking it up for anyone, AGAIN

What evidence? The IPCC sees no evidence. The climate models do however, but they are not science. And the Weather Attribution models. computer games.

Strangely I can find no evidence for your supposed posts. ;)

'As Arctic shipping increases, more data is needed to monitor trends. Collecting data about Arctic shipping, including the number, type, origin, destination, distances traveled, voyage time of year, and related information contribute to enabling safer shipping in the Arctic.'

The preferred propulsion is caterpillar tracks on the increasing ice extent and volume. Salt is poured on the track drives to avoid icing up and it's a race against time to get to port before the steel rusts out. The IPCC says it will issue scientific reports until hell freezes over.

chimera wrote on May 16^th, 2025 at 7:04pm:

'As Arctic shipping increases, more data is needed to monitor trends.

Very good. DATA not speculation. I wonder how the will measure ocean temperature?

'As the ice diminishes, these shorter maritime routes, their respective ports and natural resources are causing a renewal of interest in what was once considered an impassable region.'
https://www.thearcticinstitute.org/geopolitical-implications-arctic-shipping-lanes/

Temperature is measured by comparing ice (a solid) with water (a liquid).  If the boat is making a crunch noise then it's in ice. If there are waves, bubbles, a wake behind the boat and splashing noises, then the temperature is not too bad. The long grey shapes with smoke on top are ships.

Argh, aye - soon North West Passage....

chimera wrote on May 17^th, 2025 at 12:27pm:

'As the ice diminishes, these shorter maritime routes, their respective ports and natural resources are causing a renewal of interest in what was once considered an impassable region.' https://www.thearcticinstitute.org/geopolitical-implications-arctic-shipping-lan...

Very good. Just not yet? ;)


chimera wrote on May 17^th, 2025 at 12:27pm:

Temperature is measured by comparing ice (a solid) with water (a liquid).

And how is it measured, in ship, outside ship, Surface temperature, deeper than surface temperature? Is the ship laden or unladen?;)

Yes the model theory predicts that 'diminishes' is in present tense.  The dollars are shrinking (see DJ Trump 2016) but 111% extra ships is raw hard science, with their hulls raising the Arctic Sea Level by a fair bit, maybe.

The sea-steel temperature matrix is all over the place, obviously. It's being Sea-lee.