Australian Politics Forum
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl
Member Run Boards >> Finance and Economics >> Labor's new tax - UCGT
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1745533471

Message started by Bobby. on Apr 25th, 2025 at 8:24am

Title: Labor's new tax - UCGT
Post by Bobby. on Apr 25th, 2025 at 8:24am
UCGT -  unrealized capital gains tax.

https://wentworthreport.com/2025/04/25/labors-tax-on-unrealized-capital-gains-will-strangle-australian-small-business-and-innovation-and-may-spread-to-homes/



Labor’s tax on unrealized capital gains
will strangle Australian small business and innovation —
and may spread to homes.


By Matthew Cranston in The Australian.

Labor wants to slap a 30 per cent tax on unrealised capital gains made in superannuation ­accounts worth $3m or more without any indexation. The Greens are willing to back Labor but want the threshold to be lowered to $2m …

“The problem with UCGT is that every time you raise capital for a company, it can take place at a higher valuation and every time that happens you would get taxed, but the trouble is the company could still fail, it could go to zero and yet you have paid all this tax on what wasn’t even there and there is no refund,” [CSL chairman Brian McNamee] said. …

Dr McNamee was made chairman of Australia’s third largest company, having been chief executive for 23 years, and is ­regarded as a leader in raising up small technology and drug ­companies. ..

In the most stunning intervention by a business leader in the election campaign so far, Dr McNamee said the Albanese government did “not understand the consequences” of the “frightening, shocking” unrealised capital gains tax policy that Jim Chalmers was championing.

“I am deeply troubled about what it will do and how it could make Australia a less attractive place to invest,” Dr McNamee told The Australian. …

Experts in raising money for companies say an unrealised capital gains tax would be a disaster. …

Mr Paton, the former UBS and Citi dealmaker who with his team assisted in raising more than $200bn in capital for companies, said Labor’s new tax was a “wrecking ball” for small and ­medium-sized business capital.

“My prediction, after 25 years in raising capital, is that this is a game stopper for entrepreneurial spirit in Australia unless Treasury finds a way for big industry funds to fill the space of providing long term risk capital for small early-stage companies.” …

Investment managers across Australia — including regional areas where people with illiquid assets such as farms and warehouses would also have to pay unrealised gains — are raising the idea that Labor’s new tax would eventually be used on the family home.

Note also that Labor’s tax trheshold is not indexed. Due to the western world’s need to print its way out of huge debts — which is now widely recognizable, and the root cause of the rising gold price — there is a lot of inflation headed our way. $3m will seem small in a decade. Your home is only worth $3m — you poor things.

Title: Re: Labor's new tax - UCGT
Post by Yadda on Apr 25th, 2025 at 8:58am

I propose that all 'special' and additional >> TAXPAYER contributions << to politicians superannuation payments,
should be subject to a plebiscite [a plebiscite which would be conducted in conjunction with every federal poll].


plebiscite = = the direct vote of all the members of an electorate on an important public question.


The plebiscite question could be;
AS A CITIZEN OF AUSTRALIA.......
ARE YOU HAPPY WITH THE MANAGEMENT
OF >> OUR COMMONWEALTH <<,
BY OUR STEWARDS, THE POLITICAL CLASS,
DURING THE PAST 5 YEARS ?



If the answer is in the NEGATIVE, for more than 60% of the citizens polled........
then all 'special' and additional >> TAXPAYER contributions << to politicians superannuation payments would be withheld......
for the next five years.

i.e.
The politicians will receive the full returns for every cent, which they themselves contributed to their own superannuation.
BUT, politicians will NOT receive any 'special' and additional TAXPAYER contributions additions, to their parliamentary superannuation entitlements.


What do you think ?

We could call this action,
POLITICAL REFORM and 'incentivisation'.





Title: Re: Labor's new tax - UCGT
Post by Bobby. on Apr 25th, 2025 at 9:06am
Hi Yadda,
that won't stop politicians dreaming up new ways to tax us.

Even CGT on money in the bank is unfair -
they don't allow you to claim for losses due to inflation -
you lose money by having it in the bank.

Maybe everyone could be fitted with an air meter -
so they could tax us on how much air we breathe?


Title: Re: Labor's new tax - UCGT
Post by Bobby. on May 1st, 2025 at 8:23am

Apr 30, 2025

Wilson Asset Management founder Geoff Wilson says the introduction of
unrealised gains tax will be a “disaster” for Australia.

Opposition Leader Peter Dutton has been vocal against a tax on unrealised gains for Australia.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TNibYE-1wY

Title: Re: Labor's new tax - UCGT
Post by Bobby. on May 2nd, 2025 at 8:15pm

No date on this article?


https://www.primefinancial.com.au/blog/division-296-criticism-smsf-stressors-regarding-the-3-million-super-tax


DIVISION 296: Criticism & SMSF Stressors Regarding the $3 million Super Tax.


With the Bill set to be introduced to the Lower House this week, it looks as though Division 296 legislation is set to been acted by July 1 next year, despite concerns from Industry. The proposed “$3million supertax” will impact less than 1% of Australians with a superannuation account in the 2025/26 financial year, but it remains controversial.

Indeed, since draft Division 295 legislation was introduced in October last year, critics describe it as rushed, flawed, and particularly punitive for SMSF members.


How is Division 296 Calculated?
Once the Division 296 tax is in effect, any earnings on superannuation balances exceeding $ 3 million in a financial year will be subject to an additional 15% tax, making the total tax on this portion of earnings 30%.

Each year, a member’s adjusted total superannuation balance (TSB) will be used to determine how much, if any, Division 296 tax should be applied. This ensures that only the change in value from the start to the end of the financial year is used in the Division 296 tax calculation.

Certain withdrawals are added, and the year's superannuation contributions are subtracted to produce a TSB. Withdrawals are added to prevent taxpayers from taking money from their superannuation account to avoid a Division 296 tax liability. Meanwhile, contributions are considered an injection of capital rather than fund earnings, so they’re excluded from the Division 296 calculation. This area is complex due to the nature and number of withdrawals and contributions that may result in an adjusted TSB. Exclusions to withdraw and contributions are set to apply, so once legislation is enacted, it’s a good idea to become familiar with these conditions.

If the TSB at year-end is less than $3million, the taxpayer will not be subject to Division 296 tax for that income year.


Title: Re: Labor's new tax - UCGT
Post by Sophia on Jul 21st, 2025 at 10:10am
So there’s going to be changes made with CGT.
Usually you get 50% off but soon….
It will be a raise to 70% off for new purchased units and a drop to 35% for purchases of undetached existing houses. Existing investment property owners will remain at 50%.
This will definitely encourage sardine can living!

https://apple.news/AXAu7-wUJQhmWr7Ovh_Wk6A

Title: Re: Labor's new tax - UCGT
Post by Dnarever on Jul 21st, 2025 at 10:20am

Quote:
Labor’s tax on unrealized capital gains
will strangle Australian small business and innovation and may spread to homes.


This only applies to superannuation over $3 Million.

What is business doing holding money and assets in superannuation besides to avoid their tax bill ?

If it can spread to Home values than why do people have their home held in superannuation ? How does that work or is it just a lie ?

Title: Re: Labor's new tax - UCGT
Post by Dnarever on Jul 21st, 2025 at 10:25am

Quote:
strangle Australian small business


How many people do small business pay over $3 million in superannuation ?

The adjustment would be no more than an update to the payroll software - virtually zero cost.

Title: Re: Labor's new tax - UCGT
Post by Jovial Monk on Jul 21st, 2025 at 11:03am
Lols said “. . . undetached existing houses. . ”

I assume you meant unattached houses? Single dwellings?

Title: Re: Labor's new tax - UCGT
Post by Dnarever on Jul 21st, 2025 at 11:43am

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 21st, 2025 at 11:03am:
Lols said “. . . undetached existing houses. . ”

I assume you meant unattached houses? Single dwellings?


I think I worked it out - this topic is referring to 2 completely different things. One is superannuation changes and the other a tax concession change to housing.

Both completely unrelated ?

Business are not really doing  a housing tax scam under the superannuation umbrella ?



Title: Re: Labor's new tax - UCGT
Post by John Smith on Jul 21st, 2025 at 12:24pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 25th, 2025 at 8:24am:
“The problem with UCGT is that every time you raise capital for a company, it can take place at a higher valuation and every time that happens you would get taxed, but the trouble is the company could still fail, it could go to zero and yet you have paid all this tax on what wasn’t even there and there is no refund,” [CSL chairman Brian McNamee] said.



not different to what is done with land tax ::)

Title: Re: Labor's new tax - UCGT
Post by Bobby. on Jul 21st, 2025 at 12:48pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2025 at 12:24pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 25th, 2025 at 8:24am:
“The problem with UCGT is that every time you raise capital for a company, it can take place at a higher valuation and every time that happens you would get taxed, but the trouble is the company could still fail, it could go to zero and yet you have paid all this tax on what wasn’t even there and there is no refund,” [CSL chairman Brian McNamee] said.



not different to what is done with land tax ::)



Labor brought in new land taxes to Victoria.

Same happens with GST.
A company can sell an item at below cost
yet the Govt still gets 10% GST.
Taxes are a rip off.

Title: Re: Labor's new tax - UCGT
Post by freediver on Jul 21st, 2025 at 1:39pm

John Smith wrote on Jul 21st, 2025 at 12:24pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 25th, 2025 at 8:24am:
“The problem with UCGT is that every time you raise capital for a company, it can take place at a higher valuation and every time that happens you would get taxed, but the trouble is the company could still fail, it could go to zero and yet you have paid all this tax on what wasn’t even there and there is no refund,” [CSL chairman Brian McNamee] said.



not different to what is done with land tax ::)


No it isn't. Land is taxed based on its value, not the increase in it's value. Depending on the circumstances, you could pay a fortune in land tax while making no capital gain, or you could make huge capital gains while paying little land tax.

Title: Re: Labor's new tax - UCGT
Post by John Smith on Jul 21st, 2025 at 2:15pm

freediver wrote on Jul 21st, 2025 at 1:39pm:
No it isn't. Land is taxed based on its value, not the increase in it's value. Depending on the circumstances, you could pay a fortune in land tax while making no capital gain, or you could make huge capital gains while paying little land tax.


the value is determined by whatever someone is willing to pay for it, not some random number someone in Canberra nominates

Title: Re: Labor's new tax - UCGT
Post by Sophia on Jul 21st, 2025 at 6:42pm

Dnarever wrote on Jul 21st, 2025 at 11:43am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 21st, 2025 at 11:03am:
Lols said “. . . undetached existing houses. . ”

I assume you meant unattached houses? Single dwellings?


I think I worked it out - this topic is referring to 2 completely different things. One is superannuation changes and the other a tax concession change to housing.

Both completely unrelated ?

Business are not really doing  a housing tax scam under the superannuation umbrella ?


Oh oops.
I was thinking of starting a new heading… but the way most topics veer off course… I’m not too way off maybe  :(
Yeah unattached … undetached …. My new word for the day…. Good to see I am being paid attention to  :P

Title: Re: Labor's new tax - UCGT
Post by Bobby. on Aug 13th, 2025 at 3:56pm
And now the grubberment is thinking about charging people rent to live in their own homes:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-08-13/australia-is-a-homeowners-welfare-state-making-inequality-worse/105620522?


A new paper from the economists considers the untaxed income owner-occupiers get from their homes, via "imputed rent" — the value of living in your own house without paying rent — and capital gains made when the home's value rises.

They show that when imputed rent and accrued capital gains are included in the income measure, inequality is higher, and rising more significantly, than official statistics suggest.


The research, using Household, Income and Labour Dynamics in Australia (HILDA) data, highlights that while the average annual disposable income of outright home owners in Australia is 34 per cent higher than renters, when housing income is also counted it is 86 per cent higher.

The professors say that, since income from investing in owner-occupied housing is tax-free in Australia, while all other investments attract tax, Australians are encouraged to pour money into housing instead of more productive investments.

Treasury estimates it forgoes $50 billion a year in revenue by exempting owner-occupied housing from the Capital Gains Tax (CGT).

"There is also no tax on the rental value of owner-occupied housing, although we did tax such 'imputed rental income' between 1915 and 1923," Siminski and Wilkins write in their Conversation article.

In their paper, they argue that the favourable tax treatment of owner-occupied housing is "a major driver of inequality, undermining the redistributive role of government".

Title: Re: Labor's new tax - UCGT
Post by Bobby. on Aug 13th, 2025 at 8:50pm

This is good,
Jim Chalmers has poured cold water on the idea.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACF3S1UglwE&t=1568s



Thanks goodness for that.
I thought I might have to pay rent for my own place.

The only thing similar is the new land tax in Victoria on landlords who rent out property.
( that started Jan 2024, thanks to Labor's Daniel Andrews )

That has been passed on to tenants to pay -
the most vulnerable people in our community.

Title: Re: Labor's new tax - UCGT
Post by Bobby. on Aug 13th, 2025 at 9:25pm

It's a communist idea – it's number 1 on the list:


https://www.conservativeusa.net/10planksofcommunism.htm


Karl Marx's "10 Planks" to seize power and destroy freedom:


(1) Abolition of Property in Land and Application

      of all Rents of Land to Public Purpose.



Title: Re: Labor's new tax - UCGT
Post by Bobby. on Aug 14th, 2025 at 10:36am

So the answer is communism?

Make people pay rent to live in their own house?
We are not ready for that yet in Australia but
we all know that Govts are thinking about any way possible ways
to obtain more tax money.

You see – when you worked your whole life and paid taxes which
were used to pay for the pensions of aged people -
it didn't mean that you'd get a pension.
Some of your tax money wasn't put in a pension account just for you.
All your tax money was spent by the Govt and then they borrowed a whole lot more.
Now it seems the only way we'll ever get pensions is
by the Govt printing money via the RBA -
which causes high inflation and robs the savings of those who did save
for their retirements – including Super funds.

Title: Re: Labor's new tax - UCGT
Post by Bobby. on Aug 14th, 2025 at 4:08pm

It's all about property now so the Govt wants a cut -
less and less small business to tax:


It's just so much easier and wiser to invest in property than a small business.
Property always seems to go up in value so that even if you make a mistake
and buy a termite infested, asbestos ridden old dump you can still sell
it for a profit to the bulldozer developers who build a new home or block of flats.
In a small business you could go bankrupt instead.

Australian Politics Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.5.2!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2026. All Rights Reserved.