‘Out of date’: Push for wage boost for junior workers

Oct 02, 2024
New Daily



Junior pay rates for workers over 18 should be scrapped, the head of Australia’s peak union body says, labelling the wage as discriminatory.

Australian Council of Trade Unions president Michele O’Neil has urged the federal government to make workplace law changes that would allow for workers aged 18-21 in industries such as retail and fast food to be paid adult wages, rather than junior rates.   :)


But business groups have argued the move, which would affect more than 500,000 workers, would lead to young people not being able to get into the workforce.

O’Neil said adult wages for junior workers would allow for them to keep up with rising living costs.

“Paying junior wage rates for workers aged 18 and over is discriminatory and out of date,” she said.

“Young workers aged 18-21 in retail, fast food and pharmacy are being paid less, solely based on their age. They aren’t paying less for their rent, groceries or energy bills.”   :(


O’Neil said younger employees should not be forced to accept a percentage of the adult rate for doing the same jobs as other workers.

“They are doing the same work, with the same skills and facing the same cost of living pressures as older workers,” she said.

Business Council of Australia chief executive Bran Black argued the move would create complexity for companies.

“This approach could have the consequence of stopping many young people getting a start in life with their first job,” he said.


“The burden of increased workplace red tape is harder and harder to bear, so these types of changes would come at precisely the wrong time.”

Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry chief executive Andrew McKellar said the union’s calls were an attempt to influence the Fair Work Commission.

“Youth unemployment is already much higher than the general population at 9.8 per cent; the ACTU should not be seeking to circumvent the commission,” he said.

If they want Junior wage rates there should be Junior rents and Junior food prices too.

The modern award rate is enough of a joke as it is.

Greens join push to scrap junior worker pay rates   :)

Financial Review
Oct 3, 2024

The Greens have joined a push to abolish junior wage rates for young workers, ramping up pressure on the Albanese government for another round of industrial relations changes after next year’s election.

ACTU secretary Sally McManus this week urged Labor to scrap lower pay rates for workers under 21 employed in retail, fast food and pharmacy. The change, which union leaders want if Labor wins next year, would help as many as 500,000 workers over the age of 18 but who are paid less than their older colleagues.   :)




In what would be a third tranche of major industrial relations reform since 2022, laws allowing workers to be paid a percentage of adult rates would be abolished. Some workers in the sectors are paid as little as 70 per cent of the full adult wage, despite being over 18.

But employers warn the rises would be unaffordable for parts of the economy. Employment and Workplace Relations Minister Murray Watt declined to comment on Thursday, but Greens employment spokeswoman Barbara Pocock confirmed her support for the plan.

Polling suggests Labor could lose its slim majority at the election, a scenario that could hand the Greens significant negotiating power in both houses of parliament. 



’Less pay for the same work’
Senator Pocock said an 18-year-old hospitality worker should not be paid $12 an hour less than a 21-year-old worker.

“Young people don’t get junior prices at the supermarket or a junior discount on their rent. They have to live through this cost-of-living crisis just like everyone else so why should they get less pay for the same work?

“Junior pay rates guarantee an endless supply of cheap labour for employers willing to exploit the skills and talents of young people often desperate to get a start in the workforce. This idea that employers provide entry-level jobs for young workers only because they can pay them a lower wage is a furphy.”

The change is already opposed by employer bodies including the Australian Industry Group, the Business Council and the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry,

Opposition industrial relations spokeswoman Michaelia Cash said the calls were badly misguided.

“The ACTU needs to explain how much their latest campaign will cost Australian small and family businesses, who are already struggling under the Albanese government,” she said.

“With the youth unemployment rate at 9.8 per cent, the government should not be introducing measures to discourage employers from hiring young Australians which helps many get a foot in the door.”

Low rates help young compete
Senator Watt told ABC radio this week he would closely consult unions ahead of the election, due by May. But he said his priority remained “bedding down” substantial reforms Labor has passed through parliament.

Australian Retail Association Paul Zahra said junior rates played an important role in helping younger workers gain work and experience.

“Without these rates, young people might otherwise struggle to compete against older, more experienced applicants for the same role,” he said.

“Junior workers typically require extra supervision, mentorship or training that more experienced workers may not need. Paying junior workers the same as more experienced workers would fail to recognise the differences in skill level and expertise among these different cohorts.”

Mr Zahra said he was concerned some employers could not afford the change in the current economic climate.

“Many retail employers are small businesses on small margins, who are already severely challenged and simply can’t afford another wage hike,” he said.

Quote:

ramping up pressure on the Albanese government for another round of industrial relations changes after next year’s election.

The Gillard industrial relations changes were a Joke, a very bad joke made against workers.

An analogy of what happens repeatedly is that the Liberals move the pendulum 80% towards the employer side and then Labor fix it by moving the pendulum back about 30% resulting in an overall move 50% to the Employer.

Many of the good sounding clauses in the bill turned out in implementation to be useless. Thing like the boot test (better off overall test) sounds great but turned out to hurt most workers not help them, the vast majority were worse off overall. This was because the only employees that the Boot test applies to are those on the lowest award rate. The base modern award employee. these are people paid something like 30% under the industry base wage. As soon as an employee is paid $1 above the lowest possible wage the boot test does not apply and every worker (90%) are almost always worse off overall in many industries.

In many if not most industries the amount people are paid above the base award rate is very effectively held to ransom against their working conditions. Every negotiation is the blackmail question of what conditions will you give away to maintain your wage.

Funny thing is that the Junior is often expected to do most of the work.

I guess the rationale for junior pay scales was juniors don’t know everything about the work to be done or lack experience/skills?

A typist just out of highschool might have a 35wpm rate while someone in the workforce some years does 80wpm?


(Typist = key board operator)

Depending on the industry, juniors often aren't worth the money as you have to constantly supervise them, and often go back over their work fixing errors. Same can be said for 1st year apprentices, irrespective of age.

My oldest is now 15yrs old. I wouldn't expect ANYONE to hire him now for $30hr even though he is very clever and picks things up pretty quickly (he works for me a couple of mornings a week anyway).

And as an employer, If I had to pay $30 and hour, it wouldn't be to a 15 or 16 yr old. I'd rather hire an adult who tend to be more reliable.

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 8^th, 2024 at 7:53am:

I guess the rationale for junior pay scales was juniors don’t know everything about the work to be done or lack experience/skills? A typist just out of highschool might have a 35wpm rate while someone in the workforce some years does 80wpm? (Typist = key board operator)

No. The high school drop out might do 35wpm and get paid $20/hour. But within a year of experience, that person might be typing 70wpm and get paid $25/hr.

Similar thing happened to me. I was on $7/hr as a pizza delivery driver (because the boss had slashed the pizza prices). After a year of toughing it out with the company, the boss recognised that I was one of the better employees and gave me a pay rise to $9/hr and 10% extra added to my travel reimbursement.

$7/hr back then is the equivalent to $18/hr these days. $9/hr back then is the equivalent to $22.50/hr these days. Guess what Uber delivery drivers get paid per hour?

John Smith wrote on Oct 8^th, 2024 at 9:16am:

Depending on the industry, juniors often aren't worth the money as you have to constantly supervise them, and often go back over their work fixing errors. Same can be said for 1st year apprentices, irrespective of age. My oldest is now 15yrs old. I wouldn't expect ANYONE to hire him now for $30hr even though he is very clever and picks things up pretty quickly (he works for me a couple of mornings a week anyway). And as an employer, If I had to pay $30 and hour, it wouldn't be to a 15 or 16 yr old. I'd rather hire an adult who tend to be more reliable.

Quote:

I wouldn't expect ANYONE to hire him now for $30hr

The min Award rate is not $30. ($24) The Junior rate is about $11 to $16 (18 years) age dependant.

The 18 year old may have 3 years experience.

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 8^th, 2024 at 10:36am:

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 8th, 2024 at 7:53am: I guess the rationale for junior pay scales was juniors don’t know everything about the work to be done or lack experience/skills? A typist just out of highschool might have a 35wpm rate while someone in the workforce some years does 80wpm? (Typist = key board operator) No. The high school drop out might do 35wpm and get paid $20/hour. But within a year of experience, that person might be typing 70wpm and get paid $25/hr. Similar thing happened to me. I was on $7/hr as a pizza delivery driver (because the boss had slashed the pizza prices). After a year of toughing it out with the company, the boss recognised that I was one of the better employees and gave me a pay rise to $9/hr and 10% extra added to my travel reimbursement. $7/hr back then is the equivalent to $18/hr these days. $9/hr back then is the equivalent to $22.50/hr these days. Guess what Uber delivery drivers get paid per hour?

Typists of the past had to go through training before employment, they will be expected to type at high speed from day one and have passed tests on typing speed. Older typists tend to slow down a bit.

I knew a guy who typically typed over 150 WPM and on occasion he even got a few of the words correct. This is true he made more corrections than words.

I know some people who type accurately at well over 200 WPM

John Smith wrote on Oct 8^th, 2024 at 9:16am:

Depending on the industry, juniors often aren't worth the money as you have to constantly supervise them, and often go back over their work fixing errors. Same can be said for 1st year apprentices, irrespective of age. My oldest is now 15yrs old. I wouldn't expect ANYONE to hire him now for $30hr even though he is very clever and picks things up pretty quickly (he works for me a couple of mornings a week anyway). And as an employer, If I had to pay $30 and hour, it wouldn't be to a 15 or 16 yr old. I'd rather hire an adult who tend to be more reliable.

Go to Macca's and you likely find a 17 year old on junior rates with 3 years experience who is the shift manager.

Dnarever wrote on Oct 8^th, 2024 at 11:32am:

I know some people who type accurately at well over 200 WPM

Certainly. And I know one lady that (called me a "mother-father" one time) who managed to type at over 200wpm. She has been working part-time and then full-time as a receptionist and then into government work since she was 13 years of age.

She makes more money in one year than I do in 3, even if I worked full-time hours. But, then again, I happen to be an Uber Driver, since the year 2014. So, I could probably set my hours to match what she works. I already know this town like the back of my hand.

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 8^th, 2024 at 12:00pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 8th, 2024 at 11:32am: I know some people who type accurately at well over 200 WPM Certainly. And I know one lady that (called me a "mother-father" one time) who managed to type at over 200wpm. She has been working part-time and then full-time as a receptionist and then into government work since she was 13 years of age. She makes more money in one year than I do in 3, even if I worked full-time hours. But, then again, I happen to be an Uber Driver, since the year 2014. So, I could probably set my hours to match what she works. I already know this town like the back of my hand.

Only a guess but I suspect that my statement is true and yours not so much.

The people I am referring to are required under legislation to do that at an accuracy above 97%.

Dnarever wrote on Oct 8^th, 2024 at 11:25am:

John Smith wrote on Oct 8th, 2024 at 9:16am: Depending on the industry, juniors often aren't worth the money as you have to constantly supervise them, and often go back over their work fixing errors. Same can be said for 1st year apprentices, irrespective of age. My oldest is now 15yrs old. I wouldn't expect ANYONE to hire him now for $30hr even though he is very clever and picks things up pretty quickly (he works for me a couple of mornings a week anyway). And as an employer, If I had to pay $30 and hour, it wouldn't be to a 15 or 16 yr old. I'd rather hire an adult who tend to be more reliable. Quote: I wouldn't expect ANYONE to hire him now for $30hr The min Award rate is not $30. ($24) The Junior rate is about $11 to $16 (18 years) age dependant. The 18 year old may have 3 years experience.

$24 is for a full timer .... most juniors are casual, which the award rate is about $30 for an adult

John Smith wrote on Oct 8^th, 2024 at 5:28pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 8th, 2024 at 11:25am: John Smith wrote on Oct 8th, 2024 at 9:16am: Depending on the industry, juniors often aren't worth the money as you have to constantly supervise them, and often go back over their work fixing errors. Same can be said for 1st year apprentices, irrespective of age. My oldest is now 15yrs old. I wouldn't expect ANYONE to hire him now for $30hr even though he is very clever and picks things up pretty quickly (he works for me a couple of mornings a week anyway). And as an employer, If I had to pay $30 and hour, it wouldn't be to a 15 or 16 yr old. I'd rather hire an adult who tend to be more reliable. Quote: I wouldn't expect ANYONE to hire him now for $30hr The min Award rate is not $30. ($24) The Junior rate is about $11 to $16 (18 years) age dependant. The 18 year old may have 3 years experience. $24 is for a full timer .... most juniors are casual, which the award rate is about $30 for an adult

The rate is not $30 it is $24 + 25%

For a junior it is the age percentage of $24 which can be something like $11 then + 25% casual loading. Something like $14 to $19.

(deleted)

Dnarever wrote on Oct 8^th, 2024 at 6:27pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 8th, 2024 at 5:28pm: Dnarever wrote on Oct 8th, 2024 at 11:25am: John Smith wrote on Oct 8th, 2024 at 9:16am: Depending on the industry, juniors often aren't worth the money as you have to constantly supervise them, and often go back over their work fixing errors. Same can be said for 1st year apprentices, irrespective of age. My oldest is now 15yrs old. I wouldn't expect ANYONE to hire him now for $30hr even though he is very clever and picks things up pretty quickly (he works for me a couple of mornings a week anyway). And as an employer, If I had to pay $30 and hour, it wouldn't be to a 15 or 16 yr old. I'd rather hire an adult who tend to be more reliable. Quote: I wouldn't expect ANYONE to hire him now for $30hr The min Award rate is not $30. ($24) The Junior rate is about $11 to $16 (18 years) age dependant. The 18 year old may have 3 years experience. $24 is for a full timer .... most juniors are casual, which the award rate is about $30 for an adult The rate is not $30 it is $24 + 25% For a junior it is the age percentage of $24 which can be something like $11 then + 25% casual loading. Something like $14 to $19.

Quote:

The current national minimum wage in Australia is $24.10 per hour for permanent employees, which works out at $915.90 per week if you're working full time (38 hours per week). Casual workers get paid the same hourly base rate plus a 25% loading, which equates to $30.25 per hour