Declining revenues of energy companies will force an increase in energy and network maintenance fees.

Energy suppliers will face increased costs from additional equipment and personnel for the monitoring and controlling of power generation to accommodate variable input of solar energy.

Excessive amounts of solar energy during peak sun times will cause grid instability and a requirement for additional equipment to sustain the ability of the grid to withstand transient loads.

Will widespread rooftop solar lead to an expensive and unreliable power supply?

In the short to medium term, the answer is yes. What everyone is hoping of course, is that eventually, as systems are upgraded to suit (yes at a cost obviously), it should be very cheap energy.

We already have widespread grid-connected rooftop solar. It can cause problems, particularly if it is highly concentrated. Consider for example a storm band passing over a city and cutting out a lot of the solar radiation in a short period of time.

It's a technical problem, with technical solutions.

Goose wrote on Aug 16^th, 2024 at 11:23am:

In the short to medium term, the answer is yes. What everyone is hoping of course, is that eventually, as systems are upgraded to suit (yes at a cost obviously), it should be very cheap energy.

Solar power won't be a desirable asset until society develops a valuable application for excess energy which is otherwise wasted and which then reduces the price the solar system owner will get for energy.

California has reduced the price the grid pays for home solar input by 75%. The same is happening in Australia. Excess solar energy has zero value.

California: "The legislatively mandated review led to changes that cut the value of electricity generated by residential solar panels by 75% in the CPUC ruling, making it harder for residents to recover the cost of installing new systems. Solar arrays can carry price tags in the tens of thousands of dollars."

Industry doesn’t run in daylight?

Laugh till you cry wrote on Aug 16^th, 2024 at 1:48pm:

Goose wrote on Aug 16th, 2024 at 11:23am: In the short to medium term, the answer is yes. What everyone is hoping of course, is that eventually, as systems are upgraded to suit (yes at a cost obviously), it should be very cheap energy. Solar power won't be a desirable asset until society develops a valuable application for excess energy which is otherwise wasted and which then reduces the price the solar system owner will get for energy. California has reduced the price the grid pays for home solar input by 75%. The same is happening in Australia. Excess solar energy has zero value. California: "The legislatively mandated review led to changes that cut the value of electricity generated by residential solar panels by 75% in the CPUC ruling, making it harder for residents to recover the cost of installing new systems. Solar arrays can carry price tags in the tens of thousands of dollars."

LA...lol

---

To sync solar power with a grid:
Synchronization of the solar inverter with the grid
Some inverters use a technology called phase-locked loop (PLL) to synchronize with the grid. PLL works by comparing the phase of the grid voltage with the voltage generated by the solar panels. If there is a slight difference between the two, the inverter will adjust its output to match the grid's frequency and phase.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Aug 16^th, 2024 at 1:48pm:

Goose wrote on Aug 16th, 2024 at 11:23am: In the short to medium term, the answer is yes. What everyone is hoping of course, is that eventually, as systems are upgraded to suit (yes at a cost obviously), it should be very cheap energy. Solar power won't be a desirable asset until society develops a valuable application for excess energy which is otherwise wasted and which then reduces the price the solar system owner will get for energy. California has reduced the price the grid pays for home solar input by 75%. The same is happening in Australia. Excess solar energy has zero value. California: "The legislatively mandated review led to changes that cut the value of electricity generated by residential solar panels by 75% in the CPUC ruling, making it harder for residents to recover the cost of installing new systems. Solar arrays can carry price tags in the tens of thousands of dollars."

There's differing ideas on the priority area re future and excess energy but I think the answer lies in the most basic fundamental of that reality. In order to utilise the excess we first have to produce then capture and store it. We already know how to produce it, pretty efficiently, the capture and storage issues are yet to be adequately optimised.
We need to get battery storage efficiency and cost drastically improved through further advancement.
Once we get to a stage where all that energy can be stored and utilised as and when needed, then it has real value.

Goose wrote on Aug 17^th, 2024 at 11:32am:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Aug 16th, 2024 at 1:48pm: Goose wrote on Aug 16th, 2024 at 11:23am: In the short to medium term, the answer is yes. What everyone is hoping of course, is that eventually, as systems are upgraded to suit (yes at a cost obviously), it should be very cheap energy. Solar power won't be a desirable asset until society develops a valuable application for excess energy which is otherwise wasted and which then reduces the price the solar system owner will get for energy. California has reduced the price the grid pays for home solar input by 75%. The same is happening in Australia. Excess solar energy has zero value. California: "The legislatively mandated review led to changes that cut the value of electricity generated by residential solar panels by 75% in the CPUC ruling, making it harder for residents to recover the cost of installing new systems. Solar arrays can carry price tags in the tens of thousands of dollars." There's differing ideas on the priority area re future and excess energy but I think the answer lies in the most basic fundamental of that reality. In order to utilise the excess we first have to produce then capture and store it. We already know how to produce it, pretty efficiently, the capture and storage issues are yet to be adequately optimised. We need to get battery storage efficiency and cost drastically improved through further advancement. Once we get to a stage where all that energy can be stored and utilised as and when needed, then it has real value.

There are other ways to store energy beside electrochemical.
For example Electromechanical energy storage for storing electrical energy

Introducing the all new "sun tax"-

https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/madness-to-charge-people-for-sunlight-sneaky-sun-tax-slugged-on-solar-households-slammed-as-ripoff-amid-cost-of-living-crisis/news-story/c0c446f7a071dfa8e1f50eea26a4148a

Remember when the Labor state governments promise privatised electricity companies would make energy cheaper?

Where is Peter Beatie and Kristan Kennerley now??

tallowood wrote on Aug 17^th, 2024 at 12:53pm:

There are other ways to store energy beside electrochemical. For example Electromechanical energy storage for storing electrical energy

Tallowood's head?

Fear not.  Sun tariff is here! 

As always with private companies.  When you face a problem, you raise the price.

Got to love privatization. 

:D :D :D

Laugh till you cry wrote on Aug 18^th, 2024 at 12:42pm:

tallowood wrote on Aug 17th, 2024 at 12:53pm: There are other ways to store energy beside electrochemical. For example Electromechanical energy storage for storing electrical energy Tallowood's head?

LTYC head is needed for stinking jihad
https://iili.io/dlIWNwP.md.png

tallowood wrote on Aug 17^th, 2024 at 12:53pm:

Goose wrote on Aug 17th, 2024 at 11:32am: Laugh till you cry wrote on Aug 16th, 2024 at 1:48pm: Goose wrote on Aug 16th, 2024 at 11:23am: In the short to medium term, the answer is yes. What everyone is hoping of course, is that eventually, as systems are upgraded to suit (yes at a cost obviously), it should be very cheap energy. Solar power won't be a desirable asset until society develops a valuable application for excess energy which is otherwise wasted and which then reduces the price the solar system owner will get for energy. California has reduced the price the grid pays for home solar input by 75%. The same is happening in Australia. Excess solar energy has zero value. California: "The legislatively mandated review led to changes that cut the value of electricity generated by residential solar panels by 75% in the CPUC ruling, making it harder for residents to recover the cost of installing new systems. Solar arrays can carry price tags in the tens of thousands of dollars." There's differing ideas on the priority area re future and excess energy but I think the answer lies in the most basic fundamental of that reality. In order to utilise the excess we first have to produce then capture and store it. We already know how to produce it, pretty efficiently, the capture and storage issues are yet to be adequately optimised. We need to get battery storage efficiency and cost drastically improved through further advancement. Once we get to a stage where all that energy can be stored and utilised as and when needed, then it has real value. There are other ways to store energy beside electrochemical. For example Electromechanical energy storage for storing electrical energy

Well there are a number of possibles avenues to pursue.
I thought Thermal Battery storage was going to be further developed in a faster time-frame as another economical solution for industry (effectively converting the solar energy to heat energy stored in Bricks that retain heat etc).
We need to fasten the technical advancement in storage, whatever iteration you care to concentrate on. 

Daves2017 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2024 at 12:38pm:

Introducing the all new "sun tax"- https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/madness-to-charge-people-for-sunlight-sneaky-sun-tax-slugged-on-solar-households-slammed-as-ripoff-amid-cost-of-living-crisis/news-story/c0c446f7a071dfa8e1f50eea26a4148a Remember when the Labor state governments promise privatised electricity companies would make energy cheaper? Where is Peter Beatie and Kristan Kennerley now??

If you'll cast your mind back, they were only following the road paved by the Victorian Liberal state government under Kennett in the early 90s promising that by introducing competition into the electricity market, prices would decrease due to increased efficiency and market dynamics. The government and proponents of privatisation believed that private companies would operate more efficiently than the state-run system, leading to lower costs for consumers.

But let's ignore those who pioneered the practice and just blame Labor shall we?

They're not without fault, but let's not forget who started that whole thing...

Privatisation of essential services never ends well.

SadKangaroo wrote on Aug 20^th, 2024 at 7:07am:

Daves2017 wrote on Aug 18th, 2024 at 12:38pm: Introducing the all new "sun tax"- https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/madness-to-charge-people-for-sunlight-sneaky-sun-tax-slugged-on-solar-households-slammed-as-ripoff-amid-cost-of-living-crisis/news-story/c0c446f7a071dfa8e1f50eea26a4148a Remember when the Labor state governments promise privatised electricity companies would make energy cheaper? Where is Peter Beatie and Kristan Kennerley now?? If you'll cast your mind back, they were only following the road paved by the Victorian Liberal state government under Kennett in the early 90s promising that by introducing competition into the electricity market, prices would decrease due to increased efficiency and market dynamics. The government and proponents of privatisation believed that private companies would operate more efficiently than the state-run system, leading to lower costs for consumers. But let's ignore those who pioneered the practice and just blame Labor shall we? They're not without fault, but let's not forget who started that whole thing... Privatisation of essential services never ends well.

Best you stick to who you understand and leave the churlish childishness at home.  Hmmm - Treble MMM time...

Goose wrote on Aug 19^th, 2024 at 10:12pm:

tallowood wrote on Aug 17th, 2024 at 12:53pm: Goose wrote on Aug 17th, 2024 at 11:32am: Laugh till you cry wrote on Aug 16th, 2024 at 1:48pm: Goose wrote on Aug 16th, 2024 at 11:23am: In the short to medium term, the answer is yes. What everyone is hoping of course, is that eventually, as systems are upgraded to suit (yes at a cost obviously), it should be very cheap energy. Solar power won't be a desirable asset until society develops a valuable application for excess energy which is otherwise wasted and which then reduces the price the solar system owner will get for energy. California has reduced the price the grid pays for home solar input by 75%. The same is happening in Australia. Excess solar energy has zero value. California: "The legislatively mandated review led to changes that cut the value of electricity generated by residential solar panels by 75% in the CPUC ruling, making it harder for residents to recover the cost of installing new systems. Solar arrays can carry price tags in the tens of thousands of dollars." There's differing ideas on the priority area re future and excess energy but I think the answer lies in the most basic fundamental of that reality. In order to utilise the excess we first have to produce then capture and store it. We already know how to produce it, pretty efficiently, the capture and storage issues are yet to be adequately optimised. We need to get battery storage efficiency and cost drastically improved through further advancement. Once we get to a stage where all that energy can be stored and utilised as and when needed, then it has real value. There are other ways to store energy beside electrochemical. For example Electromechanical energy storage for storing electrical energy Well there are a number of possibles avenues to pursue. I thought Thermal Battery storage was going to be further developed in a faster time-frame as another economical solution for industry (effectively converting the solar energy to heat energy stored in Bricks that retain heat etc). We need to fasten the technical advancement in storage, whatever iteration you care to concentrate on.

Yes, I saw a farmer who used a dam uphill as potential energy storage and water wheel to drive 12v automotive generator. Water from bottom dam was pumped uphill by pump driven by solar panels.
Simple, not very high efficiency but workable and reasonably cheap.