https://www.ozpolitic.com/green-tax-shift/economics-hopeful-science.html


Quote:

Economist have issued a statement of consensus on climate change. It has been signed by 2000 economists, including six Nobel Laureates. As well as acknowledging the reality of climate change, they also point out the most effective way of addressing the problem: Economics studies have found that there are many potential policies to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions for which the total benefits outweigh the total costs. For the United States in particular, sound economic analysis shows that there are policy options that would slow climate change without harming American living standards, and these measures may in fact improve U.S. productivity in the longer run. The United States and other nations can most efficiently implement their climate policies through market mechanisms, such as carbon taxes or the auction of emissions permits. The revenues generated from such policies can effectively be used to reduce the deficit or to lower existing taxes.

These were discussions for 30 years ago.

Humans are ridiculous.

It's from 1997. I published it here in 2006.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economists%27_Statement_on_Climate_Change

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 9:02am:

It's from 1997. I published it here in 2006. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economists%27_Statement_on_Climate_Change

And look where we are now.

And you have Booby as the moderator for Environment, a climate change denialist.

Do you feel any impetus at all to support informed and earnest discussion on this topic? 

Are you thinking re-education camps?

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 9:10am:

Are you thinking re-education camps?

No Fleadriver. I'm thinking honesty.

I see why this confuses you.

mothra wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 9:05am:

freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:02am: It's from 1997. I published it here in 2006. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economists%27_Statement_on_Climate_Change And look where we are now. And you have Bobby as the moderator for Environment, a climate change denialist. Do you feel any impetus at all to support informed and earnest discussion on this topic?

No I'm not but you are a climate change alarmist.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Dqz7P-mORs

mothra wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 9:14am:

freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:10am: Are you thinking re-education camps? No Fleadriver. I'm thinking honesty. I see why this confuses you.

Have you tried insulting everyone?

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 9:22am:

mothra wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:14am: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:10am: Are you thinking re-education camps? No Fleadriver. I'm thinking honesty. I see why this confuses you. Have you tried insulting everyone?

I'm sorry Fleadriver, do you require flattery to be inspired to do the right thing?

Let me know. I've been trained to placate the male ego, as most women have. I just tend not to bother, it doesn't serve me.

But it seems to really matter to you. Have you thought about why you need random women on the internet to placate you?

how about getting rid of immigration? would cost zero, if we had done it 20 years ago there'd be a whole metric f_cktonne fewer people in rich, high per capita carbon polluter countries today.

JC Denton wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 9:37am:

how about getting rid of immigration?  ...

If that had been implemented since 1788 Australia would be an unspoiled land.

mothra wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 9:26am:

freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:22am: mothra wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:14am: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:10am: Are you thinking re-education camps? No Fleadriver. I'm thinking honesty. I see why this confuses you. Have you tried insulting everyone? I'm sorry Fleadriver, do you require flattery to be inspired to do the right thing? Let me know. I've been trained to placate the male ego, as most women have. I just tend not to bother, it doesn't serve me. But it seems to really matter to you. Have you thought about why you need random women on the internet to placate you?

You seem crankier than usual today Mothra. Are you OK?

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 9:50am:

mothra wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:26am: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:22am: mothra wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:14am: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:10am: Are you thinking re-education camps? No Fleadriver. I'm thinking honesty. I see why this confuses you. Have you tried insulting everyone? I'm sorry Fleadriver, do you require flattery to be inspired to do the right thing? Let me know. I've been trained to placate the male ego, as most women have. I just tend not to bother, it doesn't serve me. But it seems to really matter to you. Have you thought about why you need random women on the internet to placate you? You seem crankier than usual today Mothra. Are you OK?

not crankier then usual.
just vibes with negativity


i had an aunt like that
the family took her on a great trip to hawaii (we were going to hike the napali coast.

she had a great trip, she got to complain about the airline food, she got to complain about the cab driver, she got to complain about the room.

thats why you dont need to ask a whinger if they are ok

whinging is what feeds their soul
insulting people is their energy source

they look at the world and "find what they vibe with .....pain and unfocused discontent"

to get back to market mechanisms

who benefits?
follow the cash

who are the grifters in the climate industry?

i dare say they are the same grifters as in the food industry, the pharmaceutical industry, the homelessness industry, the aboriginal industry, the NDIS industry.

they are people who see a pile of cash and then back rationalise why they are doing it to save the planet and not to line their pockets.

humans are the biggest back rationalising species ever created.

they (the virtuous grifters) are so self deluded, they dont even know they are doing it  ;D ;D ;D

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 9:50am:

mothra wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:26am: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:22am: mothra wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:14am: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:10am: Are you thinking re-education camps? No Fleadriver. I'm thinking honesty. I see why this confuses you. Have you tried insulting everyone? I'm sorry Fleadriver, do you require flattery to be inspired to do the right thing? Let me know. I've been trained to placate the male ego, as most women have. I just tend not to bother, it doesn't serve me. But it seems to really matter to you. Have you thought about why you need random women on the internet to placate you? You seem crankier than usual today Mothra. Are you OK?

Any other gendered stereotype you want to try to deflect to me with? Quite frankly, at this point i'm just impressed you haven't brought up PMT or rape.

aquascoot wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 10:12am:

to get back to market mechanisms who benefits? follow the cash who are the grifters in the climate industry? i dare say they are the same grifters as in the food industry, the pharmaceutical industry, the homelessness industry, the aboriginal industry, the NDIS industry. they are people who see a pile of cash and then back rationalise why they are doing it to save the planet and not to line their pockets. humans are the biggest back rationalising species ever created. they (the virtuous grifters) are so self deluded, they dont even know they are doing it  ;D ;D ;D

Imagine! Complaining about climate change!

What low vibration.

mothra wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 10:18am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 10:12am: to get back to market mechanisms who benefits? follow the cash who are the grifters in the climate industry? i dare say they are the same grifters as in the food industry, the pharmaceutical industry, the homelessness industry, the aboriginal industry, the NDIS industry. they are people who see a pile of cash and then back rationalise why they are doing it to save the planet and not to line their pockets. humans are the biggest back rationalising species ever created. they (the virtuous grifters) are so self deluded, they dont even know they are doing it  ;D ;D ;D Imagine! Complaining about climate change! What low vibration.

a moment of self awareness

good to see  :)

mothra wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 10:14am:

freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:50am: mothra wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:26am: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:22am: mothra wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:14am: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:10am: Are you thinking re-education camps? No Fleadriver. I'm thinking honesty. I see why this confuses you. Have you tried insulting everyone? I'm sorry Fleadriver, do you require flattery to be inspired to do the right thing? Let me know. I've been trained to placate the male ego, as most women have. I just tend not to bother, it doesn't serve me. But it seems to really matter to you. Have you thought about why you need random women on the internet to placate you? You seem crankier than usual today Mothra. Are you OK? Any other gendered stereotype you want to try to deflect to me with? Quite frankly, at this point i'm just impressed you haven't brought up PMT or rape.

he's not channelling peccar

head on over to the american forum

gweggy is posting about that non stop.

can anything stop him ?

will his keyboard eventually become so crusty he cant post anymore ?

mothra wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 10:14am:

freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:50am: mothra wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:26am: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:22am: mothra wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:14am: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:10am: Are you thinking re-education camps? No Fleadriver. I'm thinking honesty. I see why this confuses you. Have you tried insulting everyone? I'm sorry Fleadriver, do you require flattery to be inspired to do the right thing? Let me know. I've been trained to placate the male ego, as most women have. I just tend not to bother, it doesn't serve me. But it seems to really matter to you. Have you thought about why you need random women on the internet to placate you? You seem crankier than usual today Mothra. Are you OK? Any other gendered stereotype you want to try to deflect to me with? Quite frankly, at this point i'm just impressed you haven't brought up PMT or rape.

And I am not surprised that you have.

Would you like to talk about how you are feeling?

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 10:36am:

mothra wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 10:14am: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:50am: mothra wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:26am: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:22am: mothra wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:14am: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:10am: Are you thinking re-education camps? No Fleadriver. I'm thinking honesty. I see why this confuses you. Have you tried insulting everyone? I'm sorry Fleadriver, do you require flattery to be inspired to do the right thing? Let me know. I've been trained to placate the male ego, as most women have. I just tend not to bother, it doesn't serve me. But it seems to really matter to you. Have you thought about why you need random women on the internet to placate you? You seem crankier than usual today Mothra. Are you OK? Any other gendered stereotype you want to try to deflect to me with? Quite frankly, at this point i'm just impressed you haven't brought up PMT or rape. And I am not surprised that you have. Would you like to talk about how you are feeling?

I think i've made it pretty clear about how i'm feeling about you pretending to champion measures to counter AGW whilst running the kind of forum you do.

Just as i make it clear how i feel about how you run your forum to you every time i elect to slum it with you.

Were you confused at some point? what led you astray?

Be specific.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 9:39am:

JC Denton wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:37am: how about getting rid of immigration?  ... If that had been implemented since 1788 Australia would be an unspoiled land.

is this an implicit admission you believe abos are incapable of industrialisation?

JC Denton wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 10:56am:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:39am: JC Denton wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:37am: how about getting rid of immigration?  ... If that had been implemented since 1788 Australia would be an unspoiled land. is this an implicit admission you believe abos are incapable of industrialisation?

See FD? This is the kind of forum you run.

mothra wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 10:59am:

JC Denton wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 10:56am: Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:39am: JC Denton wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:37am: how about getting rid of immigration?  ... If that had been implemented since 1788 Australia would be an unspoiled land. is this an implicit admission you believe abos are incapable of industrialisation? See FD? This is the kind of forum you run.

Australian Aboriginals did not need industrialization.

The bigoted racist JC Denton deserves a jolly good kick in the testicles.

Quote:

Australian Aboriginals did not need industrialization.

so why do they complain so much in the current day about not earning as much as whitey or having the same health outcomes etc as him? can't they all just move back to the bush if that's the case and enjoy their ~33 yr life expectancies, astronomical rape and blunt force trauma rates etc like they did before whites arrived? what's the point of the closing the gap campaign if the type of society they embrace or are inherently predilected to create has no regard for the variables that constitute 'the gap' in the first place?

do you think a land mass as large and resource rich as australia would have been completely left alone had anglos not rocked up in the 18th c?

mothra wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 10:59am:

JC Denton wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 10:56am: Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:39am: JC Denton wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:37am: how about getting rid of immigration?  ... If that had been implemented since 1788 Australia would be an unspoiled land. is this an implicit admission you believe abos are incapable of industrialisation? See FD? This is the kind of forum you run.

one where people are allowed to ask serious questions rather than just banning everyone who says things you don't like?

JC Denton wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 11:27am:

mothra wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 10:59am: JC Denton wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 10:56am: Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:39am: JC Denton wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:37am: how about getting rid of immigration?  ... If that had been implemented since 1788 Australia would be an unspoiled land. is this an implicit admission you believe abos are incapable of industrialisation? See FD? This is the kind of forum you run. one where people are allowed to ask serious questions rather than just banning everyone who says things you don't like?

One where self described nazis are discouraged rather than fully supported.

mothra wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 11:44am:

JC Denton wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 11:27am: mothra wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 10:59am: JC Denton wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 10:56am: Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:39am: JC Denton wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:37am: how about getting rid of immigration?  ... If that had been implemented since 1788 Australia would be an unspoiled land. is this an implicit admission you believe abos are incapable of industrialisation? See FD? This is the kind of forum you run. one where people are allowed to ask serious questions rather than just banning everyone who says things you don't like? One where self described nazis are discouraged rather than fully supported.

you're attempting to discourage me right now, it just isn't working because i'm beating you in the argument

JC Denton wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 11:48am:

mothra wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 11:44am: JC Denton wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 11:27am: mothra wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 10:59am: JC Denton wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 10:56am: Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:39am: JC Denton wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:37am: how about getting rid of immigration?  ... If that had been implemented since 1788 Australia would be an unspoiled land. is this an implicit admission you believe abos are incapable of industrialisation? See FD? This is the kind of forum you run. one where people are allowed to ask serious questions rather than just banning everyone who says things you don't like? One where self described nazis are discouraged rather than fully supported. you're attempting to discourage me right now, it just isn't working because i'm beating you in the argument

You haven't engaged in an argument with me, precious. you've simply asserted you're right to whinge and i'm rejecting that on the grounds that you're nothing but a low down disgusting little nazi.

well maybe the general impression you glean is because i'm just a lot more persuasive and have better arguments than people like you or LTYC which is why less people are trying to 'discourage' me than you would like

maybe the people here who disagree with me can try not being stupid instead of making arguments that amount to "you deserve to be kicked in the balls"

JC Denton wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 11:57am:

well maybe the general impression you glean is because i'm just a lot more persuasive and have better arguments than people like you or LTYC which is why less people are trying to 'discourage' me than you would like maybe the people here who disagree with me can try not being stupid instead of making arguments that amount to "you deserve to be kicked in the balls"

What, so you can drone endlessly on about immigration even in a thread about AGW?

Seriously ... how relevant do you think you are?

mothra wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 12:22pm:

JC Denton wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 11:57am: well maybe the general impression you glean is because i'm just a lot more persuasive and have better arguments than people like you or LTYC which is why less people are trying to 'discourage' me than you would like maybe the people here who disagree with me can try not being stupid instead of making arguments that amount to "you deserve to be kicked in the balls" What, so you can drone endlessly on about immigration even in a thread about AGW? Seriously ... how relevant do you think you are?

it's a completely relevant question to AGW? that's why i brought it up. population and where it is distributed is central to the discussion of AGW. old school environmentalists including bob brown used to talk about this all the time. i'm sorry if you're just too stupid to make the obvious connection between carbon emissions, the number of people on the planet, and most germanely where those people are located. it gets tedious having to hand-hold you through every single discussion like this.

it was LTYC who tried to make some irrelevant point about abos and turn the discussion into that

JC Denton wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 12:37pm:

mothra wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 12:22pm: JC Denton wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 11:57am: well maybe the general impression you glean is because i'm just a lot more persuasive and have better arguments than people like you or LTYC which is why less people are trying to 'discourage' me than you would like maybe the people here who disagree with me can try not being stupid instead of making arguments that amount to "you deserve to be kicked in the balls" What, so you can drone endlessly on about immigration even in a thread about AGW? Seriously ... how relevant do you think you are? it's a completely relevant question to AGW? that's why i brought it up. population and where it is distributed is central to the discussion of AGW. old school environmentalists including bob brown used to talk about this all the time. i'm sorry if you're just too stupid to make the obvious connection between carbon emissions, the number of people on the planet, and most germanely where those people are located. it gets tedious having to hand-hold you through every single discussion like this. it was LTYC who tried to make some irrelevant point about abos and turn the discussion into that

Perhaps mothra is upset that you aren't discussing her gender.

is she a he or an it?

JC Denton wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 12:37pm:

i'm sorry if you're just too stupid to make the obvious connection between carbon emissions, the number of people on the planet, and most germanely where those people are located.

"Highlights

    •

    Human CH4 emission dominantly depends on age, sex and ethnicity.
    •

    Prediction of global CH4 emission for the year 2100 is 1221 ± 672 Gg.
    •

    Future CH4 emission by humans might be in the range of present permafrost soils.
    •

    Future factor-weighted estimation of human CH4 emission exceeds unweighted estimation."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1352231019304522

But apparently it is only animals we should cull. ;)

Quote:

But apparently it is only animals we should cull.

Who told you we would be culling anything? The coalition?

You know they have to kill the cow to make a steak, right?

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 2:24pm:

Quote: But apparently it is only animals we should cull. Who told you we would be culling anything? The coalition? You know they have to kill the cow to make a steak, right?

are you saying asking every , almost broke farmer , to pay heaps of cash per cow , will result in them having loads more?? ::) ::) ::)

now you are channelling joe biden

aquascoot wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 10:12am:

to get back to market mechanisms...

A bad move, the world with 8 billion and growing, making growing demands on earth's resources,  has to relegate market mechanisms to a subordinate roll...or perish.

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 2:24pm:

Who told you we would be culling anything?

If you want to reduce methane, so the story goes, you need to reduce ruminants.

There is only so much steak you can eat. And a lot is not good enough for the urban elite. That is why it is also exported live. ::)

lee wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 1:26pm:

JC Denton wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 12:37pm: i'm sorry if you're just too stupid to make the obvious connection between carbon emissions, the number of people on the planet, and most germanely where those people are located. "Highlights     •     Human CH4 emission dominantly depends on age, sex and ethnicity.     •     Prediction of global CH4 emission for the year 2100 is 1221 ± 672 Gg.     •     Future CH4 emission by humans might be in the range of present permafrost soils.     •     Future factor-weighted estimation of human CH4 emission exceeds unweighted estimation." https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1352231019304522 But apparently it is only animals we should cull. ;)

what?

aquascoot wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 3:00pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 2:24pm: Quote: But apparently it is only animals we should cull. Who told you we would be culling anything? The coalition? You know they have to kill the cow to make a steak, right? are you saying asking every , almost broke farmer , to pay heaps of cash per cow , will result in them having loads more?? ::) ::) ::) now you are channelling joe biden

No. I am saying you lack common sense. And you lie habitually. In other words, you are a coalition supporter.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 9:39am:

JC Denton wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:37am: how about getting rid of immigration?  ... If that had been implemented since 1788 Australia would be an unspoiled land.

Dream on you terrorist supporting POS.

It would not have remained in isolation and you know it.

lee wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 3:55pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 2:24pm: Who told you we would be culling anything? If you want to reduce methane, so the story goes, you need to reduce ruminants. There is only so much steak you can eat. And a lot is not good enough for the urban elite. That is why it is also exported live. ::)

If you took out the domestic ruminant herds of sheep and cattle ....

and the great migratory herds that man hunted for food were returned ....

you would have the same problem ..

because they were & those that remain are all ruminants.

Gnads wrote on Jun 30^th, 2024 at 9:27am:

lee wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 3:55pm: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 2:24pm: Who told you we would be culling anything? If you want to reduce methane, so the story goes, you need to reduce ruminants. There is only so much steak you can eat. And a lot is not good enough for the urban elite. That is why it is also exported live. ::) If you took out the domestic ruminant herds of sheep and cattle .... and the great migratory herds that man hunted for food were returned .... you would have the same problem .. because they were & those that remain are all ruminants.

What great migratory herds were there in Australia?

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2024 at 11:32am:

Gnads wrote on Jun 30th, 2024 at 9:27am: lee wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 3:55pm: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 2:24pm: Who told you we would be culling anything? If you want to reduce methane, so the story goes, you need to reduce ruminants. There is only so much steak you can eat. And a lot is not good enough for the urban elite. That is why it is also exported live. ::) If you took out the domestic ruminant herds of sheep and cattle .... and the great migratory herds that man hunted for food were returned .... you would have the same problem .. because they were & those that remain are all ruminants. What great migratory herds were there in Australia?

Ahhh so green house gases and AGW isn't a global problem ... just Australia specific because there were no migratory ruminant herds here.

It has nothing to do with the global herd(cattle,sheep) that all you fear mongering AGW alarmists claim are farting the world into extinction?? ::)

Gnads wrote on Jun 30^th, 2024 at 12:03pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 30th, 2024 at 11:32am: Gnads wrote on Jun 30th, 2024 at 9:27am: lee wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 3:55pm: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 2:24pm: Who told you we would be culling anything? If you want to reduce methane, so the story goes, you need to reduce ruminants. There is only so much steak you can eat. And a lot is not good enough for the urban elite. That is why it is also exported live. ::) If you took out the domestic ruminant herds of sheep and cattle .... and the great migratory herds that man hunted for food were returned .... you would have the same problem .. because they were & those that remain are all ruminants. What great migratory herds were there in Australia? Ahhh so green house gases and AGW isn't a global problem ... just Australia specific because there were no migratory ruminant herds here. It has nothing to do with the global herd(cattle,sheep) that all you fear mongering AGW alarmists claim are farting the world into extinction?? ::)

What great herds were there in Europe?

FD has very little understanding of the carbon cycle

if animals dont eat the grass, it probably burns and releases all that carbon plus some


well grazed farmlands do not but we all saw what the "lock the gate" policies of the greenies achieved in 2019

Australia’s devastating bushfire season is likely to have released 830m tonnes of carbon dioxide, far more than the country’s annual greenhouse gas pollution, according to a government estimate.

If compared with international emissions, it suggests the Australian temperate forest bushfires between September and February would rank sixth on a list of polluting nations, behind only China, the US, India, Russia and Japan.

i doubt a few farting cows release as much as the 6 th biggest nation on the planet.
and if you pull those cattle off the land, i can assure you the bushfires will be catastrophic  :'( :'(

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2024 at 8:05am:

aquascoot wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 3:00pm: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 2:24pm: Quote: But apparently it is only animals we should cull. Who told you we would be culling anything? The coalition? You know they have to kill the cow to make a steak, right? are you saying asking every , almost broke farmer , to pay heaps of cash per cow , will result in them having loads more?? ::) ::) ::) now you are channelling joe biden No. I am saying you lack common sense. And you lie habitually. In other words, you are a coalition supporter.

Oh what confused bunnies we all are; I agee with your critique of aquascoot, but I would critique you exactly as you have critiqued aquascoot ....and no doubt you would return the favour.....

Ouch.

It's time for the failing liberal democracies to step aside for benevolent authority, if we going to end the current political chaos including dealing with climate change.

Starmer is out there saying "we have to believe that change is possible - mimicking Obama's failed "yes we can"; but the Brits know change is not possible with adversarial parties arguing over taxation levels. (Starmer has already  said he won't increase taxes - hence we already know he won't stop the decline in the UK's standard of living and public infrastructure, while the rich get richer).    

aquascoot wrote on Jun 30^th, 2024 at 1:26pm:

FD has very little understanding of the carbon cycle if animals dont eat the grass, it probably burns and releases all that carbon plus some well grazed farmlands do not but we all saw what the "lock the gate" policies of the greenies achieved in 2019 Australia’s devastating bushfire season is likely to have released 830m tonnes of carbon dioxide, far more than the country’s annual greenhouse gas pollution, according to a government estimate. If compared with international emissions, it suggests the Australian temperate forest bushfires between September and February would rank sixth on a list of polluting nations, behind only China, the US, India, Russia and Japan. i doubt a few farting cows release as much as the 6 th biggest nation on the planet. and if you pull those cattle off the land, i can assure you the bushfires will be catastrophic  :'( :'(

What makes you think animals wouldn't eat the grass? Or that the grass would even be there? Or that the GHG emissions would be just as bad?

freediver wrote on Jun 30^th, 2024 at 12:04pm:

Gnads wrote on Jun 30th, 2024 at 12:03pm: freediver wrote on Jun 30th, 2024 at 11:32am: Gnads wrote on Jun 30th, 2024 at 9:27am: lee wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 3:55pm: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 2:24pm: Who told you we would be culling anything? If you want to reduce methane, so the story goes, you need to reduce ruminants. There is only so much steak you can eat. And a lot is not good enough for the urban elite. That is why it is also exported live. ::) If you took out the domestic ruminant herds of sheep and cattle .... and the great migratory herds that man hunted for food were returned .... you would have the same problem .. because they were & those that remain are all ruminants. What great migratory herds were there in Australia? Ahhh so green house gases and AGW isn't a global problem ... just Australia specific because there were no migratory ruminant herds here. It has nothing to do with the global herd(cattle,sheep) that all you fear mongering AGW alarmists claim are farting the world into extinction?? ::) What great herds were there in Europe?

Aurochs, Bison, reindeer/caribou, Moose/elk, red deer. 

As well as non ruminant herds of wild horses.

Gnads wrote on Jul 1^st, 2024 at 10:07am:

freediver wrote on Jun 30th, 2024 at 12:04pm: Gnads wrote on Jun 30th, 2024 at 12:03pm: freediver wrote on Jun 30th, 2024 at 11:32am: Gnads wrote on Jun 30th, 2024 at 9:27am: lee wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 3:55pm: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 2:24pm: Who told you we would be culling anything? If you want to reduce methane, so the story goes, you need to reduce ruminants. There is only so much steak you can eat. And a lot is not good enough for the urban elite. That is why it is also exported live. ::) If you took out the domestic ruminant herds of sheep and cattle .... and the great migratory herds that man hunted for food were returned .... you would have the same problem .. because they were & those that remain are all ruminants. What great migratory herds were there in Australia? Ahhh so green house gases and AGW isn't a global problem ... just Australia specific because there were no migratory ruminant herds here. It has nothing to do with the global herd(cattle,sheep) that all you fear mongering AGW alarmists claim are farting the world into extinction?? ::) What great herds were there in Europe? Aurochs, Bison, reindeer/caribou, Moose/elk, red deer.  As well as non ruminant herds of wild horses.

How big did the "great migratory herds" of European bison get?

no reply mothra? where'd you go?

aquascoot wrote on Jun 30^th, 2024 at 1:26pm:

FD has very little understanding of the carbon cycle if animals dont eat the grass, it probably burns and releases all that carbon plus some well grazed farmlands do not but we all saw what the "lock the gate" policies of the greenies achieved in 2019 Australia’s devastating bushfire season is likely to have released 830m tonnes of carbon dioxide, far more than the country’s annual greenhouse gas pollution, according to a government estimate. If compared with international emissions, it suggests the Australian temperate forest bushfires between September and February would rank sixth on a list of polluting nations, behind only China, the US, India, Russia and Japan. i doubt a few farting cows release as much as the 6 th biggest nation on the planet. and if you pull those cattle off the land, i can assure you the bushfires will be catastrophic  :'( :'(

Your idea of Lock the Gate must be different to mine.

I was of the belief that it was for property owners who didn't want mining or hydraulic gas fracking operations on their properties?

I had no idea it meant Lock the Gate to having grazing animals eating the grass on said properties. ::)

freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2024 at 10:43am:

Gnads wrote on Jul 1st, 2024 at 10:07am: freediver wrote on Jun 30th, 2024 at 12:04pm: Gnads wrote on Jun 30th, 2024 at 12:03pm: freediver wrote on Jun 30th, 2024 at 11:32am: Gnads wrote on Jun 30th, 2024 at 9:27am: lee wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 3:55pm: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 2:24pm: Who told you we would be culling anything? If you want to reduce methane, so the story goes, you need to reduce ruminants. There is only so much steak you can eat. And a lot is not good enough for the urban elite. That is why it is also exported live. ::) If you took out the domestic ruminant herds of sheep and cattle .... and the great migratory herds that man hunted for food were returned .... you would have the same problem .. because they were & those that remain are all ruminants. What great migratory herds were there in Australia? Ahhh so green house gases and AGW isn't a global problem ... just Australia specific because there were no migratory ruminant herds here. It has nothing to do with the global herd(cattle,sheep) that all you fear mongering AGW alarmists claim are farting the world into extinction?? ::) What great herds were there in Europe? Aurochs, Bison, reindeer/caribou, Moose/elk, red deer.  As well as non ruminant herds of wild horses. How big did the "great migratory herds" of European bison get?

Look it up.

How long before this happens to one of the massive solar farm projects here in Australia.

2 years ago there was one on the Sunshine Coast that the idiot Council allowed to be built on a flood plain went underwater....

this clip is on a 4,000 acre solar farm in Damon Texas US that was destroyed by hail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51KlNVdhLFQ&ab_channel=CampConstitution

Gnads wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2024 at 9:26am:

freediver wrote on Jul 1st, 2024 at 10:43am: Gnads wrote on Jul 1st, 2024 at 10:07am: freediver wrote on Jun 30th, 2024 at 12:04pm: Gnads wrote on Jun 30th, 2024 at 12:03pm: freediver wrote on Jun 30th, 2024 at 11:32am: Gnads wrote on Jun 30th, 2024 at 9:27am: lee wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 3:55pm: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 2:24pm: Who told you we would be culling anything? If you want to reduce methane, so the story goes, you need to reduce ruminants. There is only so much steak you can eat. And a lot is not good enough for the urban elite. That is why it is also exported live. ::) If you took out the domestic ruminant herds of sheep and cattle .... and the great migratory herds that man hunted for food were returned .... you would have the same problem .. because they were & those that remain are all ruminants. What great migratory herds were there in Australia? Ahhh so green house gases and AGW isn't a global problem ... just Australia specific because there were no migratory ruminant herds here. It has nothing to do with the global herd(cattle,sheep) that all you fear mongering AGW alarmists claim are farting the world into extinction?? ::) What great herds were there in Europe? Aurochs, Bison, reindeer/caribou, Moose/elk, red deer.  As well as non ruminant herds of wild horses. How big did the "great migratory herds" of European bison get? Look it up.

I did. They formed herds of about 10.

I notice FD started this topic in General not Environment.

Environment is a wasteland where the environment is never discussed.

Time for FD to boot Booby as Mod there. I suggest he appoint Sad Kangaroo as new Mod of Environment. Even part time Sad will do a 1000% better job.

That and a crackdown on racism, abuse etc—actually applying the rules—will give OzPol a chance to recover.

freediver wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2024 at 10:40am:

Gnads wrote on Jul 2nd, 2024 at 9:26am: freediver wrote on Jul 1st, 2024 at 10:43am: Gnads wrote on Jul 1st, 2024 at 10:07am: freediver wrote on Jun 30th, 2024 at 12:04pm: Gnads wrote on Jun 30th, 2024 at 12:03pm: freediver wrote on Jun 30th, 2024 at 11:32am: Gnads wrote on Jun 30th, 2024 at 9:27am: lee wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 3:55pm: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 2:24pm: Who told you we would be culling anything? If you want to reduce methane, so the story goes, you need to reduce ruminants. There is only so much steak you can eat. And a lot is not good enough for the urban elite. That is why it is also exported live. ::) If you took out the domestic ruminant herds of sheep and cattle .... and the great migratory herds that man hunted for food were returned .... you would have the same problem .. because they were & those that remain are all ruminants. What great migratory herds were there in Australia? Ahhh so green house gases and AGW isn't a global problem ... just Australia specific because there were no migratory ruminant herds here. It has nothing to do with the global herd(cattle,sheep) that all you fear mongering AGW alarmists claim are farting the world into extinction?? ::) What great herds were there in Europe? Aurochs, Bison, reindeer/caribou, Moose/elk, red deer.  As well as non ruminant herds of wild horses. How big did the "great migratory herds" of European bison get? Look it up. I did. They formed herds of about 10.

Who is they?

Gnads wrote on Jul 8^th, 2024 at 12:14pm:

A carbon tax & carbon offsets is just smoke & mirrors nonsense.

What makes you think that?

The real question should be what is the most RELIABLE way to reduce GHG emissions. Because intermittent power sources add a lot of cost to the economy.

MattE wrote on Jul 8^th, 2024 at 2:25pm:

The real question should be what is the most RELIABLE way to reduce GHG emissions. Because intermittent power sources add a lot of cost to the economy.

So you don't care about the cost?

Whether a mechanism is reliable or not depends entirely on the political will behind it. Building a wind turbine or nuclear power station by itself guarantees nothing.

freediver wrote on Jul 8^th, 2024 at 3:49pm:

Building a wind turbine or nuclear power station by itself guarantees nothing.

With a nuclear plant you are not relying on an intermittent energy resource. ::)

Look at the latest wind metric -

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2024/05/27/night-time-wind-power-fails-across-the-entire-continent-of-australia/
http://www.bom.gov.au/difacs/IDX0894.gif
or from BoM

Not much pressure gradient equals not much wind - Australia wide.

lee wrote on Jul 8^th, 2024 at 5:30pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 8th, 2024 at 3:49pm: Building a wind turbine or nuclear power station by itself guarantees nothing. With a nuclear plant you are not relying on an intermittent energy resource. ::) Look at the latest wind metric - https://wattsupwiththat.com/2024/05/27/night-time-wind-power-fails-across-the-entire-continent-of-australia/ http://www.bom.gov.au/difacs/IDX0894.gif or from BoM Not much pressure gradient equals not much wind - Australia wide.

Do try to keep up Lee. We were talking about reducing GHG emissions.

freediver wrote on Jul 9^th, 2024 at 6:24am:

We were talking about reducing GHG emissions.

Yes. And nuclear does that. Lithium batteries over their lifetime doesn't. And I showed wind power isn't capable of anything with those blocking highs.

Do try to keep up. ::)

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 8^th, 2024 at 11:44am:

I notice FD started this topic in General not Environment. Environment is a wasteland where the environment is never discussed. Time for FD to boot Booby as Mod there. I suggest he appoint Sad Kangaroo as new Mod of Environment. Even part time Sad will do a 1000% better job. That and a crackdown on racism, abuse etc—actually applying the rules—will give OzPol a chance to recover.

One way to encourage the little twerp to surrender the modship of Environment would be to move his “Cats and Critters topics now here” to the “Cats and Critters” MRB.

lee wrote on Jul 9^th, 2024 at 1:55pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 9th, 2024 at 6:24am: We were talking about reducing GHG emissions. Yes. And nuclear does that.

Like I said, by itself it guarantees nothing. Same as wind and solar. It produces more electricity, that's all. This is what the narrow minded approach of the coalition completely misses when it comes to finding the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions.

freediver wrote on Jul 9^th, 2024 at 5:26pm:

Like I said, by itself it guarantees nothing.

So nuclear increases GHG's? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

lee wrote on Jul 9^th, 2024 at 5:44pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 9th, 2024 at 5:26pm: Like I said, by itself it guarantees nothing. So nuclear increases GHG's? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I cannot dumb it down any more for you Lee. You do know that there are huge GHG emissions associated with the construction of a nuclear power plant, right?

freediver wrote on Jul 10^th, 2024 at 6:39am:

. You do know that there are huge GHG emissions associated with the construction of a nuclear power plant, right?

There are emissions, just like there is in the construction of solar panels and wind turbines.  Now compare 7 nuclear plants to thousands of solar panels and hundreds of wind turbines. ::)

It has nothing to do with a comparison Lee. I was talking about whether building a new power source guarantees reduced overall emissions. It doesn't. There are plenty of countries, including Australia, that are building lots of renewables, or even lots of nuclear power, and their emissions are going up.

freediver wrote on Jul 8^th, 2024 at 12:44pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 8th, 2024 at 12:14pm: A carbon tax & carbon offsets is just smoke & mirrors nonsense. What makes you think that?

Charging a fee/tax that allows someone to continue to pollute?

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 9^th, 2024 at 3:07pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 8th, 2024 at 11:44am: I notice FD started this topic in General not Environment. Environment is a wasteland where the environment is never discussed. Time for FD to boot Booby as Mod there. I suggest he appoint Sad Kangaroo as new Mod of Environment. Even part time Sad will do a 1000% better job. That and a crackdown on racism, abuse etc—actually applying the rules—will give OzPol a chance to recover. One way to encourage the little twerp to surrender the modship of Environment would be to move his “Cats and Critters topics now here” to the “Cats and Critters” MRB.

;D because you run it and he's banned from your MRB .... yeah?  ::)

freediver wrote on Jul 10^th, 2024 at 6:39am:

lee wrote on Jul 9th, 2024 at 5:44pm: freediver wrote on Jul 9th, 2024 at 5:26pm: Like I said, by itself it guarantees nothing. So nuclear increases GHG's? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I cannot dumb it down any more for you Lee. You do know that there are huge GHG emissions associated with the construction of a nuclear power plant, right?

As there is for your renewables projects with wind & solar.

And they have a far bigger footprint.

Gnads wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 10:44am:

freediver wrote on Jul 8th, 2024 at 12:44pm: Gnads wrote on Jul 8th, 2024 at 12:14pm: A carbon tax & carbon offsets is just smoke & mirrors nonsense. What makes you think that? Charging a fee/tax that allows someone to continue to pollute?

Are you trying to say something Gnads, or are you asking me what a tax is?

freediver wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 11:00am:

Gnads wrote on Jul 11th, 2024 at 10:44am: freediver wrote on Jul 8th, 2024 at 12:44pm: Gnads wrote on Jul 8th, 2024 at 12:14pm: A carbon tax & carbon offsets is just smoke & mirrors nonsense. What makes you think that? Charging a fee/tax that allows someone to continue to pollute? Are you trying to say something Gnads, or are you asking me what a tax is?

Are you just being an obtuse tnuc again?

Gnads wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 11:10am:

freediver wrote on Jul 11th, 2024 at 11:00am: Gnads wrote on Jul 11th, 2024 at 10:44am: freediver wrote on Jul 8th, 2024 at 12:44pm: Gnads wrote on Jul 8th, 2024 at 12:14pm: A carbon tax & carbon offsets is just smoke & mirrors nonsense. What makes you think that? Charging a fee/tax that allows someone to continue to pollute? Are you trying to say something Gnads, or are you asking me what a tax is? Are you just being an obtuse tnuc again?

I am trying to get you to actually say what you are saying, rather than expecting everyone else to guess. My guess is that you are reluctant actually say it, because you know it is BS. So you tapdance instead.

freediver wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 8:10am:

There are plenty of countries, including Australia, that are building lots of renewables, or even lots of nuclear power, and their emissions are going up.

Wow. Increased fossil fuel use increases emissions. You heard it first here. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

freediver wrote on Jul 8^th, 2024 at 3:49pm:

MattE wrote on Jul 8th, 2024 at 2:25pm: The real question should be what is the most RELIABLE way to reduce GHG emissions. Because intermittent power sources add a lot of cost to the economy. So you don't care about the cost? Whether a mechanism is reliable or not depends entirely on the political will behind it. Building a wind turbine or nuclear power station by itself guarantees nothing.

Well today we we know Trump will "drill baby drill" (and the adoring crowd roared their approval).

Trump says the whole AGW-CO2 thing is a hoax, so he will reduce the cost of US electricity, by burning the world's largest resevoirs of fracked gas (in the US).

That leaves China, with minimal fossil reserves and the world's most advanced PV industry, to show the world how to eliminate GHG emissions.

[Twiggy should move to China: Xinjiang is already producing vast quantities of solar energy which is not yet connected to the grid - an ideal location for creating green hydrogen (assuming the technology for hydrogen- smelted green steel is at hand)].

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 3:01pm:

That leaves China, with minimal fossil reserves and the world's most advanced PV industry, to show the world how to eliminate GHG emissions.

And yet China's emissions are growing astronomically. That is some elimination. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

" In 2023 China’s carbon-dioxide emissions surged by 4.7%, to a record 12.6bn tonnes."

https://www.economist.com/china/2024/05/30/has-china-reached-peak-emissions

lee wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 3:44pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19th, 2024 at 3:01pm: That leaves China, with minimal fossil reserves and the world's most advanced PV industry, to show the world how to eliminate GHG emissions. And yet China's emissions are growing astronomically. That is some elimination. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D " In 2023 China’s carbon-dioxide emissions surged by 4.7%, to a record 12.6bn tonnes." https://www.economist.com/china/2024/05/30/has-china-reached-peak-emissions

And it's renewables sector is also gowing at the fastest rate of any country - just shows the growth in demand and size of China's energy market.

https://e360.yale.edu/features/china-renewable-energy

13 Mar 2024 — China has achieved stunning growth in its installed renewable capacity over the last two decades, far outpacing the rest of the world.

Anyway, green China versus dirty US, by 2030?

Watch this space.....

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 4:17pm:

And it's renewables sector is also gowing at the fastest rate of any country - just shows the growth in demand and size of China's energy market.

Yeah, But based on coal. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Coal for solar manufacturing, coal for wind turbine manufacturing.


thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 4:17pm:

Anyway, green China versus dirty US, by 2030?

And yet China's emissions have soared way past the US emissions. And yet the US is dirty? ::)

"U.S. net emissions declined 15 percent from 2005 to 2021 due to a range of market- and policy-related factors."

https://www.c2es.org/content/u-s-emissions/


thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 4:17pm:

Watch this space.....

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 4:17pm:

Watch this space.....

Between your wears?

lee wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 5:34pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19th, 2024 at 4:17pm: And it's renewables sector is also gowing at the fastest rate of any country - just shows the growth in demand and size of China's energy market. Yeah, But based on coal. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Low IQ?

Based on a rapidly  increasing proportion of renewbales, even as coal emission inincrease until renwables exceed coal. 

Coal for solar manufacturing, coal for wind turbine manufacturing.



Quote:

And yet China's emissions have soared way past the US emissions. And yet the US is dirty? ::)

Low IQ?

China has 4 times the poluation of the US; get back to us when the proportiio of renewables is grater than half and contiuing the increase in China, while the US under Trump goes backwards (increases fossil burning).


Quote:

"U.S. net emissions declined 15 percent from 2005 to 2021 due to a range of market- and policy-related factors."

Low IQ?
Policy related factors including increasing renewables. 


Quote:

Between your wears?

No; between now and 2030, as Trump dumps the Paris aggreement emissons targets.   

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 20^th, 2024 at 1:16pm:

Based on a rapidly  increasing proportion of renewbales, even as coal emission inincrease until renwables exceed coal.

The renewables manufacturing need reliable power for their semiconductor, for their fibreglass manufacturing, for their glass manufacturing. And that will not come from renewable power. It is naive to believe so.


thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 20^th, 2024 at 1:16pm:

China has 4 times the poluation of the US; get back to us when the proportiio of renewables is grater than half and contiuing the increase in China, while the US under Trump goes backwards (increases fossil burning).

Trump wasn't in power for much of that time. Another example of your false equivalence. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 20^th, 2024 at 1:16pm:

Policy related factors including increasing renewables.

So Trump was responsible for increasing renewables.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 20^th, 2024 at 1:16pm:

No; between now and 2030, as Trump dumps the Paris aggreement emissons targets.

And? Tell us how many countries are actually ACHIEVING their Paris targets. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You do know trhat the Paris Targets are not legislated in the USA? That there is no compulsion for them to do so? That the Democrats have never taken it to the House or Senate to be legislated? ::)

freediver wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 11:29am:

Gnads wrote on Jul 11th, 2024 at 11:10am: freediver wrote on Jul 11th, 2024 at 11:00am: Gnads wrote on Jul 11th, 2024 at 10:44am: freediver wrote on Jul 8th, 2024 at 12:44pm: Gnads wrote on Jul 8th, 2024 at 12:14pm: A carbon tax & carbon offsets is just smoke & mirrors nonsense. What makes you think that? Charging a fee/tax that allows someone to continue to pollute? Are you trying to say something Gnads, or are you asking me what a tax is? Are you just being an obtuse tnuc again? I am trying to get you to actually say what you are saying, rather than expecting everyone else to guess. My guess is that you are reluctant actually say it, because you know it is BS. So you tapdance instead.

;D something you never do .... ever.

Especially on your pet topic of GHG emissions, climate change alarmism & bs renewable capability.

Your phukhead mate Bowen was recently filmed saying he isn't anti nuclear it's just that renewables and nuclear are incompatible.

The biggest lie he has ever uttered ... considering most countries that have nuclear generation also use coal fired & renewables in the total mix to have reliable power supply.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 4:17pm:

lee wrote on Jul 19th, 2024 at 3:44pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19th, 2024 at 3:01pm: That leaves China, with minimal fossil reserves and the world's most advanced PV industry, to show the world how to eliminate GHG emissions. And yet China's emissions are growing astronomically. That is some elimination. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D " In 2023 China’s carbon-dioxide emissions surged by 4.7%, to a record 12.6bn tonnes." https://www.economist.com/china/2024/05/30/has-china-reached-peak-emissions And it's renewables sector is also gowing at the fastest rate of any country - just shows the growth in demand and size of China's energy market. https://e360.yale.edu/features/china-renewable-energy 13 Mar 2024 — China has achieved stunning growth in its installed renewable capacity over the last two decades, far outpacing the rest of the world. Anyway, green China versus dirty US, by 2030? Watch this space.....

Yes ... manufacturing it ... & exporting it overseas to gullible western countries like ours.

And they also get a slice of building/erecting it here.

::) ::)

lee wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 4:55pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 11th, 2024 at 8:10am: There are plenty of countries, including Australia, that are building lots of renewables, or even lots of nuclear power, and their emissions are going up. Wow. Increased fossil fuel use increases emissions. You heard it first here. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Are you always this confused? Or only when you are being a cheerleader for the coalition?


Gnads wrote on Jul 20^th, 2024 at 6:08pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 11th, 2024 at 11:29am: Gnads wrote on Jul 11th, 2024 at 11:10am: freediver wrote on Jul 11th, 2024 at 11:00am: Gnads wrote on Jul 11th, 2024 at 10:44am: freediver wrote on Jul 8th, 2024 at 12:44pm: Gnads wrote on Jul 8th, 2024 at 12:14pm: A carbon tax & carbon offsets is just smoke & mirrors nonsense. What makes you think that? Charging a fee/tax that allows someone to continue to pollute? Are you trying to say something Gnads, or are you asking me what a tax is? Are you just being an obtuse tnuc again? I am trying to get you to actually say what you are saying, rather than expecting everyone else to guess. My guess is that you are reluctant actually say it, because you know it is BS. So you tapdance instead. ;D something you never do .... ever.

Are you still confused about what the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions is?

Bobby. wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 9:19am:

mothra wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:05am: freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:02am: It's from 1997. I published it here in 2006. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economists%27_Statement_on_Climate_Change And look where we are now. And you have Bobby as the moderator for Environment, a climate change denialist. Do you feel any impetus at all to support informed and earnest discussion on this topic?  No I'm not but you are a climate change alarmist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Dqz7P-mORs

It's funny that you say it like it's a bad thing.

But the "alarm" went off years ago.

The ship has sailed, thanks to people like you.

Too bad you won't be around to face the consequences of your actions.

Wouldn't that be nice.

freediver wrote on Jul 21^st, 2024 at 7:39am:

lee wrote on Jul 11th, 2024 at 4:55pm: freediver wrote on Jul 11th, 2024 at 8:10am: There are plenty of countries, including Australia, that are building lots of renewables, or even lots of nuclear power, and their emissions are going up. Wow. Increased fossil fuel use increases emissions. You heard it first here. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Are you always this confused? Or only when you are being a cheerleader for the coalition? Gnads wrote on Jul 20th, 2024 at 6:08pm: freediver wrote on Jul 11th, 2024 at 11:29am: Gnads wrote on Jul 11th, 2024 at 11:10am: freediver wrote on Jul 11th, 2024 at 11:00am: Gnads wrote on Jul 11th, 2024 at 10:44am: freediver wrote on Jul 8th, 2024 at 12:44pm: Gnads wrote on Jul 8th, 2024 at 12:14pm: A carbon tax & carbon offsets is just smoke & mirrors nonsense. What makes you think that? Charging a fee/tax that allows someone to continue to pollute? Are you trying to say something Gnads, or are you asking me what a tax is? Are you just being an obtuse tnuc again? I am trying to get you to actually say what you are saying, rather than expecting everyone else to guess. My guess is that you are reluctant actually say it, because you know it is BS. So you tapdance instead. ;D something you never do .... ever. Are you still confused about what the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions is?

No ....your version is a total con job.

Quote:

No ....your version is a total con job.

How do you know what my version is, if I never say what I am saying?

freediver wrote on Jul 21^st, 2024 at 7:39am:

Are you always this confused? Or only when you are being a cheerleader for the coalition?

Emissions are going up because of increased fossil fuel use.

https://ourworldindata.org/fossil-fuels

https://www.iaea.org/sites/default/files/nuclear-energy-compared-11.jpg

Current nuclear is too small to reduce emissions. Talk about you having magical thinking. ::)

mothra wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 9:05am:

freediver wrote on Jun 29th, 2024 at 9:02am: It's from 1997. I published it here in 2006. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economists%27_Statement_on_Climate_Change And look where we are now. And you have Booby as the moderator for Environment, a climate change denialist. Do you feel any impetus at all to support informed and earnest discussion on this topic?

But but but Booby is all about intellectual discussion in the Environment toilet errrrr MRB!

Now what this intellectual discussion is to be about I am not sure, seems to be about cats and dogs which is odd considering the little puke’s board is called Environment. It is as if the Thwaites glacier isn’t about to let go and slide into the sea, as if plastics esp microplastics aren’t everywhere including the human scrotum, as if species aren’t going extinct at a rapid rate of knots!

Does anyone here have any idea about how much plastic flows to the oceans from rivers every year? How much longer can we use the oceans as toilet and rubbish dump before fish stocks take a huge hit?

You will look in vain to the Environment MRB for answers. The little puke ruining that MRB has no idea, no interest. YouTubes of cute cats and dogs is his only interest.

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2024 at 5:17pm:

Does anyone here have any idea about how much plastic flows to the oceans from rivers every year?

Still worried about a plastic micro penile insert? ;)

lee wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2024 at 5:37pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 22nd, 2024 at 5:17pm: Does anyone here have any idea about how much plastic flows to the oceans from rivers every year? Still worried about a plastic micro penile insert? ;)

The above is what passes for “intellectual discussion” in the Environment toilet of a board.

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2024 at 5:54pm:

The above is what passes for “intellectual discussion” in the Environment toilet of a board.

And yet it wasn't posted there. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

So tell us more about the CO2 emissions are lessening to space, as per your lovely graphic. And yet OLR is increasing. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

What frequencies?

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2024 at 7:37pm:

What frequencies?

Whichever frequencies float your boat. ;)

OK, you don’t know what frequencies (or wavelength) of IR are reaching space. Do you know HM IR/heat remains in the atmosphere/surface/oceans?

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2024 at 8:42pm:

OK, you don’t know what frequencies (or wavelength) of IR are reaching space.

I know. But you wanted to prove yourself. Don't forget most is covered  by both water and methane. ;)


Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2024 at 8:42pm:

Do you know HM IR/heat remains in the atmosphere/surface/oceans?

The same as you. That's why they have satellites to determine that that exits the atmosphere. Then they guess what remains, with wide eror bars. ;)

So you don’t know that either.

Is the globe warming, lee? Do you at least know that?

It has probably warmed. The bad siting of weather stations doesn't make it a certainty.

But tell us how much net CO2 is either sequestered of emitted from the ocean. You claim to know these things. ;)

“Probably warmed” wow talk of having the courage of your convictions!

So what has the increase in far IR emitted to space mean?

And FYI satellite as well as terrestrial measurements of global temperature both show an increase in temperature with indications of an increase in the rate of warming starting 9 years ago. That the three La Ninas in a row didn’t show any great cooling is probably confirmation of this increase.

The oceans do not emit net CO2 despite their warming a tiny amount because the 50% increase in the partial pressure of CO2 prevents that.

Tell me lee, a body that increases in temperature would it emit less IR, the same amount of IR or more IR?

lee wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2024 at 9:43pm:

But tell us how much net CO2 is either sequestered of emitted from the ocean. You claim to know these things.

So you can't tell us. Thanks for that. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2024 at 9:54pm:

And FYI satellite as well as terrestrial measurements of global temperature both show an increase in temperature with indications of an increase in the rate of warming starting 9 years ago.

Satellite measurements, like tree rings, are proxies. Do you have the error bars for that? What are the error bars for the terrestrial measurements? And I will give you a hint - it is not 0.2C as stated by HadCrut currently and not 0.34C way back in 1850. ;)


Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2024 at 9:54pm:

The oceans do not emit net CO2 despite their warming a tiny amount because the 50% increase in the partial pressure of CO2 prevents that.

So give us the figures instead of propagandising.

We even get outgassing in the polar regions.

"Storms drive outgassing of CO2 in the subpolar Southern Ocean"

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-27780-w

BTW - You do realise you haven't posted on how "cheap" renewables are. ;)

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2024 at 5:17pm:

Does anyone here have any idea about how much plastic flows to the oceans from rivers every year? How much longer can we use the oceans as toilet and rubbish dump before fish stocks take a huge hit?

Yes.... Asia, the Indian sub-continent & SE Asia throw/dump everything thing into their streams, creeks & rivers.

In some countries the rivers are like giant slow moving glaciers of plastic.

The evidence of this washes up on all our remote islands & coasts.

This(aka micro plastics) is a far more serious issue than GHGs & AGW.

Stopping this pollution would be far better than worrying about fossil fuel emissions(especially ours) & wasting billions/trillions on renewable projects that are not & never will be green, clean & the energy from them "free".

You can thank that idiot Fred Hilmer for convincing govts that they can't have a monopoly & to place electricity generation in the market environment.

That's one big reason why our power prices are so high.

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2024 at 5:19pm:

You will look in vain to the Environment MRB for answers. The little puke ruining that MRB has no idea, no interest. YouTubes of cute cats and dogs is his only interest.

;D You & he have a lot in common then?

Gnads wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2024 at 1:16pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 22nd, 2024 at 5:19pm: You will look in vain to the Environment MRB for answers. The little puke ruining that MRB has no idea, no interest. YouTubes of cute cats and dogs is his only interest. ;D You & he have a lot in common then?

My MRB is Critters and Gardens. You won’t find any such videos I have posted for a long time—the little puke steals them to post in what is supposed to be the Environment MRB.

Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2024 at 3:24pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 23rd, 2024 at 1:16pm: Jovial Monk wrote on Jul 22nd, 2024 at 5:19pm: You will look in vain to the Environment MRB for answers. The little puke ruining that MRB has no idea, no interest. YouTubes of cute cats and dogs is his only interest. ;D You & he have a lot in common then? My MRB is Critters and Gardens. You won’t find any such videos I have posted for a long time—the little puke steals them to post in what is supposed to be the Environment MRB.

No your member run board is CATS & CRITTERS.

not Critters & Gardens.

Why tell an obvious porky?

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