Post by Frank on Jan 6th, 2024 at 8:03pm
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General Discussion >> Aboriginal Affairs >> Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1704186556 Message started by freediver on Jan 2nd, 2024 at 7:09pm |
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Title: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Jan 2nd, 2024 at 7:09pm
The traditional custodians of Mt Warning, Sturt Davis (Boyd) and the Ngarakwal people are inviting you to come along and support their efforts to reopen the summit walking track. What better way could you spend this contraversial holiday than coming together for a peaceful gathering to assist in the return of this landmark to its rightful custodians.
https://www.facebook.com/events/901243184539632 Event by Right To Climb and Re-open Mt Warning Gerald Parker Park Group · Members of Re-open Mt Warning PUBLIC MEETING Australia Day 26 JAN 2024 at 1:30 PM REOPEN WOLLUMBIN/MT WARNING AT: GERALD PARKER PARK, Kyogle Road, Uki You are invited by the Ngarakwal people (direct descendants of knowledge keeper/custodian Mrs Millie Boyd) of Northern NSW to please join in & support the reopening of Wulambiny Momoli/Mt Warning. History & Ngarakwal have always said this mountain is sacred & that it is a woman’s AND men’s place. As custodian Mrs Marlene Boyd once said “how can the public experience the spiritual significance of this land if they do not climb to the summit and witness creation?” Bundjalung Land Councils & the Wollumbin Consultative Group (WCG) spent 23 years in a pursuit of this landmark. 2 years ago, contrary to tribal lore, they said it’s a men’s only site & closed it off to the public. Bundjalung have totally neglected the mountain & the climbing track & Ngarakwal want management rights & for the mountain to be repaired & reopened for climbing. GUEST SPEAKERS: Sturt Davis (Boyd)- Ngarakwal Spokesperson, Marc Hendrickx- Geologist & Author of “A Guide to Climbing Mt Warning: The Fight for Awe & Wonder” Craig Evans- Save our Summits & Andrew Flanagan- Mtn Biker & Adventurer AFTERWARDS THERE WILL BE A BOOK SIGNING BY MARC HENDRICKX |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 2nd, 2024 at 7:18pm
I'll see if I'm feeling well enough to make the trip.
Dare one ask what the 'new' state government is doing about this? We know Parrot's tits signed off on it - but what's Ho Chi doing other than hoping the issue will go away? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Gnads on Jan 3rd, 2024 at 8:33am freediver wrote on Jan 2nd, 2024 at 7:09pm:
Peaceful gathering? I bet there will be a blue on? ..... some of those wanting the place closed off have already demonstrated their propensity for violence & vandalism of private property if anyone turned up in the parking area there. There have been tyres slashed, vehicle windows smashed and one part non reflective chap has even made threats of physical violence on his Facebook page. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 3rd, 2024 at 10:26am Gnads wrote on Jan 3rd, 2024 at 8:33am:
Yup - the important thing is this - will the police and courts, under the hand of Ho Chi Minns - actually DO their job and prevent crime and arrest wrongdoers.... or will they do a KrystallNacht and stand back and watch while the New Juden have their cars smashed? I'll be surprised if a single cop shows up to 'keep the peace' - but if anyone defends self or property, you can bet they'll be hunted down like wild dogs - all of a sudden security cameras will work there...... but they are blind to anything but white. ;D :( ;) :D |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Jan 3rd, 2024 at 8:37pm
;D ;D
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 5th, 2024 at 11:20pm
Don't laugh, Smith - you're next!!
;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Jan 6th, 2024 at 8:33am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 5th, 2024 at 11:20pm:
Why? You want to climb me too? :o Have you met Bobby? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 6th, 2024 at 12:42pm John Smith wrote on Jan 6th, 2024 at 8:33am:
Why wouldn't you want to enjoy the spiritual creation of the earth mother as the sun comes up in the East, from the first point in Australia you can see it? It's hardly an Abo thing.... it's for everyone .... restore the track properly and improve it and freediver's yer uncle!! Stop the violence around the bottom from the Usual Suspects which is disturbing the spirits and causing them distress over such things going on around their sacred place... talk about hypocrisy.... 8-) |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Jan 6th, 2024 at 6:06pm
Unlike you crappler, I've been up there. :D :D
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Aussie on Jan 6th, 2024 at 7:50pm John Smith wrote on Jan 6th, 2024 at 6:06pm:
So have I. Big deal....not. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 6th, 2024 at 7:53pm John Smith wrote on Jan 6th, 2024 at 6:06pm:
So you didn't go for sunrise? What were you doing? Missed out on the start of the day... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Frank on Jan 6th, 2024 at 8:03pm |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JC Denton on Jan 7th, 2024 at 6:43am
isnt mt warning where fern gully was
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Jan 7th, 2024 at 9:19am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 6th, 2024 at 7:53pm:
I was probably getting laid that morning :-* |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 7th, 2024 at 12:14pm John Smith wrote on Jan 7th, 2024 at 9:19am:
Yeah - plying them with the spirits can do that for you.... get 'em onside, you know... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Jan 8th, 2024 at 7:50am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 7th, 2024 at 12:14pm:
careful old man, you reveal more about yourself than anyone else. No wonder you so vehemently defended Lehrmann :D |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 9th, 2024 at 8:55pm
The best thing abut Smith is that everyone knows by now you can just ignore his jibes and lies - nobody bothers with him much - but I'm still yer only mate, Smithy - and I never 'vehemently' defended anyone - just called for calm and law and order.....you lot were the ones baying for his scalp.... now he stands to get millions out of it.... it was contributions like yours that created the environment in which he could run his case... the baying of the mongrel dogs outside the courts was more than enough...
You really are a borderline emotional fool, aren't you? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Jan 10th, 2024 at 7:46am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 9th, 2024 at 8:55pm:
and yet you never do ;D ;D Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 9th, 2024 at 8:55pm:
crap. You shed more tears for him than you do victims of rape. That's a sad indictment on you. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by aquascoot on Jan 10th, 2024 at 9:37am
What you resist persists grappler
This is the frame from which to deal with Mr Smith I tend to view him much like a blowfly which is annoying you whilst you are trying to get on with your awesome day You can't really ignore it because it is annoying But if you go into resistance and start over-reacting to it Pretty soon you are not getting on with your awesome day So the best strategy is probably one of radical acceptance Mr Smith in this case a blowfly it's just doing all that a blowfly is capable of doing It's not really it's fault It's on it's journey and you need to remain on yours So whilst you can't just ignore it You can feel some sympathy for it And realise it is merely following the path of an inferior entity And you can get on with following your path of superiority In a way it can teach you patience resilience and the self-disciplined to remain on your path In this way even the blowfly is serving your purpose not hindering your ascendance |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 10th, 2024 at 10:37am aquascoot wrote on Jan 10th, 2024 at 9:37am:
Impressive 'philosophy' from aquascoot.... Unfortunately, the Randian view of 'rationality' which aquascoot's philosophy supports, is entirely erronoeous. Pity about that.... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 10th, 2024 at 11:13am thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 10th, 2024 at 10:37am:
How so, Blowfly? What makes a Personal Philosophy 'erroneous' by any standard? Does that mean we should then have grades of condemnation for various personal philosophies? Death for supporting gays? Things of that nature.... if it doesn't steal your apples from your tree - what is your problem? Anyway - just a Personal Philosophy statement there as opposed to a Hive Mind..... https://starwarsintrocreator.kassellabs.io/#!/ENnl-7Qd-paXxgTpPVbm |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 10th, 2024 at 11:20am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 10th, 2024 at 11:13am:
By the standard of reason: good is good for all, not just some. Quote:
Yes. Quote:
No. Quote:
Seeing apples stolen from the trees of others is depressing....like seeing the world's 10 wealthiest people owning more wealth than the bottom half of the population, with starvation rife. Quote:
Your PP exposed as "freedon values" nonsense, as always. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 10th, 2024 at 11:36am |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Jan 10th, 2024 at 11:45am
Is the little pink trying to tell us we have to take John seriously?
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 10th, 2024 at 1:08pm freediver wrote on Jan 10th, 2024 at 11:45am:
Sometimes I leave poor widdle Johnny to wither on the vine and fester for a while before throwing him some more bait.... it's good for the tourism trade to keep the crocs lean and hanging around... Pushback against this kind of insanity is rapidly becoming a rollback..... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 11th, 2024 at 11:30am freediver wrote on Jan 10th, 2024 at 11:45am:
No; I have outlined why your "individual freedom" values ideology is an illusion. Rand fell for it, and so do you. Hence neither you nor Graps has the nous to refute my post (#21), because analysis based on reason, NOT ideology, is required. Pity about that... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Jan 11th, 2024 at 12:21pm Quote:
What ideology is that? I don't think you ever said. You just started ranting about it. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 11th, 2024 at 12:45pm freediver wrote on Jan 11th, 2024 at 12:21pm:
The ideology based on the illusion of 'natural individual rights", based on survival/competitive instincts of individuals. Whereas sweet reason, and concepts like "fairness" are cortex-based. Your task in life is to be 'reason-able', rather than blindly driven by self-interested survival instincts. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Jan 11th, 2024 at 12:46pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 11th, 2024 at 12:45pm:
Yeah, that's what your rants sound like. What ideology is that? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 11th, 2024 at 1:54pm freediver wrote on Jan 11th, 2024 at 12:46pm:
The ideology of Reason, not accessible to your blind individual instinct-driven brain. Hence the endless wars and and entrenched poverty in our world - an entirely unreason-able outcome of human relations. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Jan 11th, 2024 at 3:41pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 11th, 2024 at 1:54pm:
So you think you have proven that reason itself is an illusion? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 11th, 2024 at 4:32pm freediver wrote on Jan 11th, 2024 at 3:41pm:
For dat boy everything is an illusion.. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 11th, 2024 at 5:46pm freediver wrote on Jan 11th, 2024 at 3:41pm:
No; and that's obviously not even what I wanted to prove, your thinking is already confused. I think I have proven reason, in consideration of universal wellbeing (as in the UNUDHR) is incompatible with "reason" based on the (individual) "freedom" illusion. (Unregulated individual freedom is an illusion if the world has more than one self-interested individual in it...). The illusion is the (individual) "freedom" ideology, arrived at by the unreason of instinct-driven thought. Note: everyone has shouted "that's not fair", sometime in their life; they are reasoning from their own perspective of "fairness". The solution (other than via resort to un-reasoning conflict) is acceptance of rule of law to adjudicate "fairness", from the point of view of justice determined by the collective, not the self-interested individual. The quality of the justice is evident in the outcomes in the community (eg, order, tranquility, versus hyper-partisanship). |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Frank on Jan 11th, 2024 at 6:04pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 11th, 2024 at 5:46pm:
Point to a single jurisdiction where individual freedom is unregulated. Parliaments are derived from the collective will and t they generate the rule of law. There is no 'hyper-partisanship' and communist dictatorship is certainly not the answer to anything. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 11th, 2024 at 6:21pm
"Parliaments are derived from the collective will "
Peasant 1:- “Oo are you then?” Albo:- “I am your Great Leader, and I bring you the Indigenous Voice!” Peasant 1:- “Oo created this Indigenous Voice then? What's it based on?” Albo (heavenly music):- “The Great Serpent, filled with the power of the seas and the skies and the thunder and lightning in the clouds, came down from Heaven, and using his great body, carved the hills and river courses, and then dying, his mighty ribs created the mountains and his bones the Indigenous People to be custodians over the land and gave them a Voice over all in the land which must be restored to them ….......” Peasant 2:- “Some failed herpetological experiment is no basis on which to form a valid argument to develop a multi-layered government by changing the Constitution! True government comes from a mandate of the masses, willingly given and fully informed! We're a semi-autonomous, quasi-anarchic egalitarian assemblage of rules-bound free individuals who vote every three years on our elected representatives, who then sit down and natter out the best way forward, and if we disagree with them we can write to them or vote them out next time around, or even refuse to abide by their dictates under the guiding principle that 'an unjust law – (or decision or policy for that matter) – is no law - (or decision or policy for that matter) - at all'! We don't need no Voices in our heads telling us what to do!!” Albo:- “But failure to do so is racist and divisive!” Peasant 2:- “Oh – now we see the truth about the injustice and fundamental tyranny in the system – we're racist and divisive for just wanting things left alone!” Albo:- “But I am your Great Leader! You must vote for this Voice or be branded traitor forever – an enemy of the people and racist to boot! Now stop being a bloody racist White invader and just vote for it!” Peasant 2:- “Ah - there it is right in front of you – look everyone – this is how the system treats those who dissent! Name-calling and insult! I'll vote NO thanks.” Albo:- (grabs peasant's shirt front) “Look, you bloody white supremacist invading convict derived moron! Just vote YES for what's right and get on with it!” (shakes peasant) Peasant 2:- “Come on! Look at this everybody!! I'm being oppressed! This is how the system treats you if you say NO.... I'm being oppressed!!” |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 11th, 2024 at 6:26pm Frank wrote on Jan 11th, 2024 at 6:04pm:
Indeed, no where, because it MUST be regulated; the question is how, and to what end; ie, for the benefit of the most competitive and most advantaged, or to include the least competitive, and least advantaged. Quote:
And the collective will leans toward non-interference, with extreme examples causing hyperpartisanship and inequality, or graded intervention, to eradicate disadvantage. Quote:
Er......the US of A???? Quote:
But maybe a meritocracy governed by benevolent authority is....provided it knows how run an economy by dividing the functions of the public and private sectors. The sad thing is you don't even have to give up any more of your personal freedom than you do already; your illusions re freedom are the problem. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 11th, 2024 at 6:34pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 11th, 2024 at 6:21pm:
The problem is the leader is blinded by mainstream economic orthodoxy, and so hasn't a clue how to eradicate black disadvantage, namely, by getting rid of excruciatingly named "welfare", and ensure everyone can participate in the economy, according to their ability. 1+1 =2 |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Frank on Jan 11th, 2024 at 10:06pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 11th, 2024 at 6:26pm:
And yet, stupid, moronic parrot that you are, you rail endlessly against unregulated invidual freedom- that doesn't actually exist anywhere. You are a moron in your own bubble. Is that harsh? Well, it's true. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Gnads on Jan 12th, 2024 at 6:19am Frank wrote on Jan 11th, 2024 at 10:06pm:
Yep ... sounds true to me. ;D |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 12th, 2024 at 10:54am Frank wrote on Jan 11th, 2024 at 10:06pm:
You missed out the important qualifier re the "individual freedom" illusion, which DOES exist; namely " the collective will leans toward non-interference, with extreme examples causing hyperpartisanship and inequality, or graded intervention, to eradicate disadvantage". That is, in countries infested with delusional "natural individual rights" ideology, the "collective will" will result in 'survival of the fittest' outcomes. Do try to comprehend the entire argument, not just the first bit you thought you could run with, to get you out of a hole. Quote:
Refuted above: your lack of ability to consider the several aspects of an argument at the same time, is egregious. Unregulated individual freedom is indeed impossible except in a state of anarchy (as even you agree); but the delusion re 'natural individual "rights"' is nevertheless widespread among followers of Western classical liberalism, resulting in disastrous outcomes for social harmony, as we see in our world. Suggestion: have a go at refuting my argument, rather than just frothing at the mouth with your ad hominems, as usual. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Frank on Jan 12th, 2024 at 11:12am thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 12th, 2024 at 10:54am:
Refuted above: your lack of ability to consider the several aspects of an argument at the same time, is egregious. Unregulated individual freedom is indeed impossible except in a state of anarchy (as even you agree); but the delusion re 'natural individual "rights"' is nevertheless widespread among followers of Western classical liberalism, resulting in disastrous outcomes for social harmony, as we see in our world. Suggestion: have a go at refuting my argument, rather than just frothing at the mouth with your ad hominems, as usual. [/quote] Quote just one person who wants totally unregulated individual freedom. Just one. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Jan 12th, 2024 at 11:14am
I think there are several of them in his head.
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 12th, 2024 at 11:43am Frank wrote on Jan 12th, 2024 at 11:12am:
Quote just one person who wants totally unregulated individual freedom. Just one. [/quote] [You are proving my point: you are incapable of considering the several aspects supporting my argument that the wide-spread delusion re "natural individual rights" results in rendering ineffective the boundaries to individual freedom that governments MUST establish (by Rule of Law) to engender well-ordered societies.] More than "one person who wants totally unregulated individual freedom", I can cite the widely-held Libertarian creed , namely, "voluntary agreement is the natural state of Man" ie Anarchism (the delusional philosophy) renders Rule of Law unnecessary and "totalitarian". |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 12th, 2024 at 11:48am freediver wrote on Jan 12th, 2024 at 11:14am:
?? ...an attempt at humor? ...several aspects of an argument.... Hope so..surely not low IQ conflating two points of debate with "just one person"..... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Jan 12th, 2024 at 11:55am
This one doesn't use whole sentences.
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 12th, 2024 at 12:11pm freediver wrote on Jan 12th, 2024 at 11:55am:
Truly missing is the force in this one... hold I for him no hope... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 12th, 2024 at 12:11pm
So...back on topic: banning access to Mt Warning is cultural nonsense, nature is to be enjoyed; but ensuring access to housing and jobs for all ought to be the business of government.
Sweet reason, unencumbered by individual instinct, greed or ego. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 12th, 2024 at 12:21pm freediver wrote on Jan 12th, 2024 at 11:55am:
Ah... I keep forgetting your low IQ...you can't connect the dots. Frank wanted me to cite just ONE person who believes in unregulated personal freedom, and you chimed in with "several are in my head" - a meaningless non sequitur. ...and lo and behold Graps (libertarian extraordinaire) shows up, with an equally meaningless non sequitur, failing to address any of the the arguments. "Deplorable". |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 12th, 2024 at 1:38pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 12th, 2024 at 12:21pm:
Like throwing '17,000 Gazan women and children' into a discussion of the Olde Aboriginale propensity for tribal massacre root and branch - yea - even unto the seventh generation?? Easy as pie arguing with you ..... first you dig a hole, then you fall into it... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Frank on Jan 12th, 2024 at 1:50pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 12th, 2024 at 12:21pm:
So who wants unregulated individual freedom? Who has even the illusion that unregulated, unfettered ndividual freedom is desirable or achievable? I think your mindless, hyperbolic parroting has run away with you, as usual. Are you posting here as a free individual or as a result of a collective decision that you are obeying? (Careful, trick question, Son of Xi Ping Pong.) |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Jan 12th, 2024 at 4:41pm Frank wrote on Jan 12th, 2024 at 1:50pm:
I suspect it is in his CCP pamphlet that everyone who disagrees with or mocks him does. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 12th, 2024 at 4:53pm
True government comes from a mandate of the masses, willingly given and fully informed! We're a semi-autonomous, quasi-anarchic egalitarian assemblage of rules-bound free individuals who vote every three years on our elected representatives, who then sit down and natter out the best way forward, and if we disagree with them we can write to them or vote them out next time around, or even refuse to abide by their dictates under the guiding principle that 'an unjust law – (or decision or policy for that matter) – is no law - (or decision or policy for that matter) - at all'! We don't need no Voices in our heads telling us what to do!!
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 13th, 2024 at 11:05am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 12th, 2024 at 1:38pm:
Blimey, more confusion: Boris was extolling the virtues of "civilization" compared with the savagery of natives: I merely pointed out we ("civilized" moderns) still have a propensity for savagery, when relating to one another: witness the revenge-based genocide in Gaza - which goes back to the mismanaged partition of Palestine. Whereas my argument explains why the "natural individual rights" delusion is so widespread, and its consequent egregious effects on good governance requird to promote "domestic tranquility and the general welfare". Quote:
Talk about self-delusion: you have never won an argument with me, not once. Feel free to cite an example..... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 13th, 2024 at 11:40am Frank wrote on Jan 12th, 2024 at 1:50pm:
The fools who equate democracy with good governance....not to mention graps who thinks governance itself is the problem. Quote:
"Democracy" /"freedom values" ideologues who raise the "individual freedom" delusion above collective wellbeing. Quote:
Ad hominem; you need to explain how the egregious effects of rule by 50%+1 of self-interested "free " individuals, can be ameliorated. Quote:
Yes, in as much as I can be "free" in a world with billions of other self-interested "free" individuals. Quote:
No trick; I'm arguing for the prosperity of the collective...spot the difference? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Jan 13th, 2024 at 1:17pm Quote:
Is the CCP internally democratic? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 14th, 2024 at 9:56am freediver wrote on Jan 13th, 2024 at 1:17pm:
Yes, with decisons made by consensus rather than election. The CCP has its stated goal of common prosperity, as opposed to the goal of individual "freedom". But the problem with Western democracy is its illusion of individual freedom which is why eg, lack of housing and above-poverty jobs persists despite elections. And the basis of that illusion is Western natural individual rights' ideology which itself is delusional; only individual desires exist, not "rights". As I said to Frank, I'm arguing for the prosperity of the collective, as opposed to his back to front proposition that I was being directed by the collective. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Frank on Jan 14th, 2024 at 10:13am thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 14th, 2024 at 9:56am:
Who came up with the common prosperity idea? On what authority did all those individuals in the CCP ( and there are millions of individuals in the CCP) gave up their own conscience and ability to reason in favour of consensus? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 14th, 2024 at 11:31am Frank wrote on Jan 14th, 2024 at 10:13am:
Interestingly it gets a mention in the 18th century Preamble to the US constitution: "....to promote the general welfare...." (ie not just the rich). Quote:
On the authority of the Law written into the Constitution after the victory of the "Marxist" revolution, in 1949. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 14th, 2024 at 11:34am
Well - we can all see how well that worked...
Now - about Mt Warning... it seems the majority want it re-opened..... let's assume, out of our good graces, that the NSW Opposition is planning to announce such a thing prior to the next election.... that's the entire Northern Rivers sewn up...... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 14th, 2024 at 11:51am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 14th, 2024 at 11:34am:
Indeed; after some mal-administration of 'collectivized farming' (which Marx hadn't considered), strong CCP management of the 'free market' along with private ownership introduced after reforms in 1980, resulted in the fastest reduction of poverty in history. Quote:
Not if cost of living issues still engage the majority. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 14th, 2024 at 11:59am thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 14th, 2024 at 11:51am:
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Frank on Jan 14th, 2024 at 12:07pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 14th, 2024 at 11:31am:
On the authority of the Law written into the Constitution after the victory of the "Marxist" revolution, in 1949. [/quote] So Marxists limit conscience and the ability to reason. Ta. Also, the Common-wealth is bad because free citizens willingly come together, reason together, argue and compromise and retaint their freedom of conscience and ability to reason. All bad. Marxist dictatorship is good because it limits conscience, alibility to reason, to argue and freely come together. The Supreme Leadership knows best because ... er.... it's Marxism. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Jan 14th, 2024 at 1:09pm
Mt Warning should be Mined.
It's in the way of a good view. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Jan 14th, 2024 at 2:34pm Quote:
Is that a reference to the 50 million people the CCP starved to death with their lies and incompetence? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Jan 14th, 2024 at 2:35pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 14th, 2024 at 9:56am:
What do you mean by consensus? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 14th, 2024 at 5:26pm freediver wrote on Jan 14th, 2024 at 2:35pm:
Based on grass-roots democracy', with officials chosen by general agreement at the local level and then on up to the national level, rather than by election - like candidates (standing for a particular party) are chosen for particular seats by party machines here, not by the public. But will you admit "natural individual rights" don't exist, only (self-interested) individuals' desires exist? To recap: Don't walk into a crocodile infested river, your "rights" will turn out to be delusional. And don't confront an armed Jew illegal settler, your "rights" will be trumped, at best, by a "Land Promise" from God. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 14th, 2024 at 5:54pm Frank wrote on Jan 14th, 2024 at 12:07pm:
So Marxists limit conscience and the ability to reason. Ta.[/quote] Wrong analysis, as to be expected from a deluded "freedom values" ideologue. We both agree (so you claim) on the need for government - which will of necessity limit individual freedom. Marxists merely agree that implementation of collective well-being is a higher manifestation of individual "conscience" than well-being based on self- interest of individuals alone. So no limit on individual conscience, because conscience demands the well being of the collective - see the UN"Universal"DHR. Quote:
Refuted above; your premise was wrong hence also your conclusion, conscience/"fairness" demands universal wellbeing. Quote:
See above: past dictatorships are not a constraint for present conscience seeking universal well-being. ....Which Marx desired: "workers of the world, unite", but Marx wasn't aware of the money delusion (ie all money - public and private - based on debt) crippling the world in our time. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 14th, 2024 at 6:02pm
Then why give 'em all a job under that depraved approach to economics? Surely the long term better good would be attained by NOT giving them jobs.... keeping the issue alive... you know...
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 14th, 2024 at 6:25pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 14th, 2024 at 11:59am:
Unfortunately, FD's economic theories are responsible for raising the current cost of living crisis to the status of a majority issue; Mt Warning won't rate in the next election, as Albo's policies are seeing voters desert him in droves. Quote:
Well...the piecemeal approach - ok... Quote:
"self interested" herding the self -interested - sad. Quote:
No; the desire for collective well-being is not equivalent to "for the benefit of the 'better' class as self-identified". Can you spot the difference? Hint : a socialist Constitution is concerned with/strives for achieving the former, not the latter. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 14th, 2024 at 6:37pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 14th, 2024 at 6:02pm:
?? Why? To end the present depraved "welfare" dependency system. Quote:
No, welfare dependency already keeps the depraved economic system alive. Quote:
Enforced poverty-level welfare dependency (caused by involuntary unemployment) is another form of slavery. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 14th, 2024 at 10:35pm
Cut to the chase - so swapping one form of slavery for another as part of the same depraved structure is OK with you? No change to the structure - just a change in the form of slavery - from dat cotton fiel' into dat big house!!
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 15th, 2024 at 8:42am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 14th, 2024 at 10:35pm:
Great, let's see if graps can sensibly "cut to the chase".... Quote:
?? Both institutionalized welfare, and joblessness, are part of the same depraved structure (in current neoclassical economic orthodoxy), neither of them are OK with me. Still waiting to "cut to the chase"... Quote:
On the contrary, a revolutionary change in structure, eradicating BOTH joblessness and welfare dependency. See how your "everyone who wants a job can get a job (and a house)" delusion, cripples your capacity for analysis? The fool Bullock wants to increase joblessness by lifting interest rates (as required by neoclassical economics, to reduce inflation); and as for houses, there simply aren't enough in Oz, the result of government abandoning public housing since the eighties, and letting the private sector rip with its greed -based houses as investment policy. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 15th, 2024 at 8:47am
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 15th, 2024 at 8:56am thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 15th, 2024 at 8:42am:
On the contrary, a revolutionary change in structure, eradicating BOTH joblessness and welfare dependency. See how your "everyone who wants a job can get a job (and a house)" delusion, cripples your capacity for analysis? The fool Bullock wants to increase joblessness by lifting interest rates (as required by neoclassical economics, to reduce inflation); and as for houses, there simply aren't enough in Oz, the result of government abandoning public housing since the eighties, and letting the private sector rip with its greed -based houses as investment policy. [/quote] I see you suffer from the same mental disease as the 'transgender' community in America - assuming that anyone with a different view must perforce be part of some group that is primarily based around a few basic concepts, such as religion, right wing-ness, conservatism... Republicanism... and that all are therefore the same. Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about, and clearly you've never read one thing I've posted here. Still waiting for you to cut to the chase and stop chasing ghosts around..... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 15th, 2024 at 9:19am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 15th, 2024 at 8:56am:
I see you suffer from the same mental disease as the 'transgender' community in America[/quote] O no, graps favourite topic , trannies... Quote:
Our discussion detoured to joblessness and homelessness (and is in the wrong thread); nevertheless, these two subjects ARE based in the field of economics. That you can no longer debate homelessless and joblessness, but need to divert to a weird accusation of my analysis being "based around a few basic concepts" (what's religion, trannies, etc got to do with it..) is indicative of your lack a knowledge on these topics. [See how you abandoned debate in the 'cultural Marxism' thread: no reply to my examining of your inadequate reasoning in your last post in that thread]. Quote:
More hiding the fact your capacity for analysis is crippled; rather than answering the post, you accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about. Classic fraud/low IQ. ANSWER BOTH POSTS. Quote:
Still waiting for you to stop being a fraud (as explained above) - which you CAN do; low IQ is something you can't change, unfortunately. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 15th, 2024 at 10:23am
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 15th, 2024 at 10:59am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 15th, 2024 at 10:23am:
I rest my case, while you have fallen asleep..... When you wake up, you can reply to the points made in #71, and #935 in the "Cultural Marxism" thread. Thank you. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Gnads on Jan 15th, 2024 at 11:18am thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 15th, 2024 at 10:59am:
Clue? ....You'd bore the handle off a cast iron pot. ::) |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 15th, 2024 at 11:26am Gnads wrote on Jan 15th, 2024 at 11:18am:
Comfortable conservatives don't like examining the hard topics like joblessness and homelessness, it's true, because their own ideology - based on delusions like 'natural/inherent individual rights' - collapses under such examination. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 15th, 2024 at 5:16pm
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Jan 15th, 2024 at 6:25pm
Will FD get his gun and retake the mountain, if they ban him from being there?
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Gnads on Jan 15th, 2024 at 6:30pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 15th, 2024 at 11:26am:
Rubbish ... the riff raff are effecting every community. They aren't productive members of the communities. They are drug phuuked individuals who are doing time in jails near towns & cities where their feral families move to to be near the grub in jail ... when they get out they stay in those cities & towns & add to the crime & housing crises. If they don't have family they just cause problems within the community because of their addictions & anti social behavior. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 15th, 2024 at 8:42pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 15th, 2024 at 11:26am:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 16th, 2024 at 9:10am
Haven't heard from FD, since I answered his question "what does consensus mean".
And Frank has disappeared after claiming the "commonwealth " refers to the "commonwealth of ideas, freely arrived at by the population" ....demonstrating a remarkable ability for self-deception, or crippled analysis in defence of the classical liberal natural individial rights delusion. (google) " A commonwealth is a traditional English term for a political community founded for the common good. The noun "commonwealth", meaning "public welfare, general good or advantage", dates from the 15th century. Note: "for the public welfare", as opposed to the welfare of the King, or welfare measured by private wealth (rather than common/public wealth). In Marx's time, there was no "public welfare", only the welfare of the wealthy, while the rest lived in poverty. And 'natural/inherent' individual "rights" don't exist, desires of individuals do; and Law needs to be based on justice for all , not individual desires. Obviously - to avoid the anarchy, endless wars and entrenched poverty ruining our world. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Jan 16th, 2024 at 9:17am
Grappler is right. It is because you are incredibly boring and repetitive, and so far wrong I don't know where to start. Your strange views on what equality before the law means would be a good start.
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 16th, 2024 at 10:22am freediver wrote on Jan 16th, 2024 at 9:17am:
1. Like I said, it means we are all equal - in/before/under - the law. Presumably you agree. 2. My objection is to the words " all men are created equal", which ignores the vast IN(UN)-equality regarding natural abilities/proclivities. google: The phrase ("all men are created equal") often serves as the first, or one of the first, rights listed in enumerations of rights, as a framing for all subsequent rights. Since Declarations of rights are often applied to all people, as natural human rights, the phrase emphasizes that all rights listed after it apply equally to every person. See the error? They have changed 'all are created equal' into 'equality before the law' - so far so good; but applying "natural human rights" (which don't exist, only "rights" invented by men, in line with their desires, exist), applying these as "rights" to all - ie to individuals who have differing desires and abilities - is an oxymoron (or impossible) eg, you insist the individual is responible for his poverty, despite the fact individuals with exceptional talent (or dumb luck eg Rinehart was born to her father who found some iron ore) are hoovering up increasing proportions of the nation's resources for themselves. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Frank on Jan 16th, 2024 at 10:30am thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 16th, 2024 at 10:22am:
Human are not horses or dogs or cattle. There is such a thing as being human and therefore such a thing as human dignity. That is the basis of 'all men created equal'. there is equal human dignity at birth. Or as the source of this idea put it, "here is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female; for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." The longer version: The Declaration of Independence made a bold assertion about human nature and natural rights. The central claim that “all men are created equal” had profound implications for the American regime of liberty. The “self-evident truth” of human equality meant that humans had equal natural rights, equally gave their consent to create a republican government, had equal dignity, and were equal under the law. Throughout history, most societies were either monarchies, aristocracies, or despotisms. In those societies, leaders and elite social classes (or those of a certain ethnicity or religion) had certain rights and privileges that common people did not have. These societies were characterized by inequality. The Enlightenment and ideas of John Locke significantly influenced the founders’ belief that all humans were created equal and had equal natural rights. The Declaration stated, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” The nature of the political regime was then shaped by this idea of natural human equality. Again, influenced by Locke, the Declaration stated that all were equally free and independent to give their consent to create a free, representative government. The Declaration stated, “That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.” This was the basis of social contract or social compact theory. It created an equal citizenry and self-governance in a republic. The citizens in the republican government enjoyed equality under the Constitution. The Constitution created an equal rule of law for all in which they could enjoy their liberties. It equally protected the individual rights of all citizens and guaranteed due process. The Fifth Amendment to the Constitution reads, “No person shall be…deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” The Constitution banned titles of nobility and aristocratic privileges showing that it was a republican constitution not one that supported oligarchy, or rule by the few. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 16th, 2024 at 11:26am Frank wrote on Jan 16th, 2024 at 10:30am:
Of course: humans have "conscience' and a sense of justice/fairness, enabling behaviours beyond that directed merely by survival/competitve instincts. Quote:
er...."the sins of the father are visited unto the following generations"; and FAS - resulting from dysfunctional social/econmic circumstances - incapacitates/cripples the infant even before it's born. Quote:
Yes, all equal before the law, but certainly not equal in abilities, genes, and social circumstances. Quote:
Which I refuted in my post; the "bold assertion" re natural "rights" is based on confusing desires with "rights", and the "self-evident truth" re human equality ignores the natural inequality of individuals' abilities and proclivities, with profound consequences for individual outcomes. Quote:
Bloody hell, no kidding... So men have been searching for a basis of Law, forever. And still, 10 men have more wealth than half the world's population....and Oz can't house all its citizens. Quote:
Now you are just repeating ideas whose errors I have already exposed; you need to show why my analysis of those errors is wrong. Note: the Enlightenment also produced Thomas Paine: "The world is my country, all men are my brethren, and to do good is my religion" A truely enlightened individual. Quote:
Like I said, mere repetition of erroneous ideas - erroneous as reasoned by me - won't save you, you have show where my reasoning is wrong. Note to Frank - see, that's how it's done, ie reply point by point, to defend your case. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Frank on Jan 16th, 2024 at 11:36am thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 16th, 2024 at 11:26am:
Of course: humans have "conscience' and a sense of justice/fairness, enabling behaviours beyond that directed merely by survival/competitve instincts. Quote:
er...."the sins of the father are visited unto the following generations"; and FAS - resulting from dysfunctional social/econmic circumstances - incapacitates/cripples the infant even before it's born. [/QUOTE] Stick with equality before the law, parrot. Constitutions are legal documents, not psycho-social treatises or communist manifestos. The cripple has the same human dignity before the law as the Olympic athlete. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 16th, 2024 at 5:24pm Frank wrote on Jan 16th, 2024 at 11:36am:
er...."the sins of the father are visited unto the following generations"; and FAS - resulting from dysfunctional social/econmic circumstances - incapacitates/cripples the infant even before it's born. [/QUOTE] Stick with equality before the law, parrot. Constitutions are legal documents, not psycho-social treatises or communist manifestos. The cripple has the same human dignity before the law as the Olympic athlete. [/quote] Well....you replied to ONE of my points. Well done. Ok, we both agree "created equal" means equality before the law As for "dignity", neither the physically ravaged alcoholic mother or her FAS-crippled baby is a manifestation of 'human dignity', despite both having equality before the law A fat lot of good the said 'equality before the law' achieves for mother and baby. And why did mother and child end up in this catastrophic circumstance, despite "equality before the law"? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 16th, 2024 at 8:46pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 16th, 2024 at 5:24pm:
Personal choice.... a fat lot of good extra treatment with fierce advertising campaigns and medical advice at clinics did... when you choose the Dark Side, Flake - you are on your own.... and you just can't help yourself. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 16th, 2024 at 8:48pm Geostationary Stealth Glitch Commobs Satellite . |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 17th, 2024 at 11:10am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 16th, 2024 at 8:46pm:
No-one "chooses" to become an alcoholic: Causes of alcoholism https://toolkit.lifeline.org.au/topics/substance-misuse/causes-of-substance-misuse Your current circumstances Escaping uncertain, painful, or difficult circumstances in your life can be another reason for misusing substances. These circumstances might include: 1.Financial strains or pressure 2.Homelessness or housing insecurity 3.Stress at work, school or at home 4.Losing your job, or struggling to find work 5.Big life changes like the end of a relationship, moving out of home, finishing school, or retiring. ...... Note: the heading 'Your current circumstances" is only one of several categories considerd in the article; together they expose your assertion of "personal responsibility" to be an expression of willful ignorance. In fact your ideology is a vicious 'survival of the fittest' ideology based on the Classical Liberal 'natural individual rights' delusion, and its bastard sibling 'equality before the (delusion-based) law. geez, tackling you, FD and Frank is like herding cats. No wonder our world is in such a bad state. What we need is good law which ameliorates/ eradicates the causes of the circumstances itemized above. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Frank on Jan 17th, 2024 at 11:17am thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 17th, 2024 at 11:10am:
Why is it, then, that not everyone, not even most people, in circumstances 1-5 'misuse' alcohol and become alcoholic? Please explain. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 17th, 2024 at 11:22am Frank wrote on Jan 17th, 2024 at 11:17am:
Good question, shows you are capable of learning, (and there is hope for the world....): Among "the other catgories" I mentioned is an examination of the role of genetics in substance abuse. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 17th, 2024 at 11:29am
Of course people choose to become alcoholics - nobody holds a gun at their heads.
Nobody is responsible for that woman's choice to drink when pregnant than herself...... none of us has any responsibility there and she is allowed - yea - even more - we have no RIGHT to interfere with her choices. What IS the matter with you? You're like herding cats.... once only - just because your 'current circumstances' might be rough, it is still your choice to drink your way through those... you are deliberately misreading the term 'causes' - these circumstances don't CAUSE anyone to drink like some overbearing compulsion - they CHOOSE to drink to attempt to vercome those. Now let's hear another of your bombardment with snowflakes 'refutations' .... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Frank on Jan 17th, 2024 at 11:47am thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 17th, 2024 at 11:22am:
;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D Only Marxist parrots are free, conscious and have a capacity for reasoning - everyone else is a victim of capitalism and their genes. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 17th, 2024 at 12:08pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 17th, 2024 at 11:29am:
?? in fact many people suffering PTSD - eg as a result of having a "gun held at their head" - have become alcoholics. Even many 'tough' guys have suffered that outcome. Your first point demolished. Quote:
Wrong; entrenched socio-economic disadvantage (responsible for some of the circumstances listed in the article) is the entire community's responsibility, and therefore a task of government to ameliorate. "No man is an island". Quote:
More GIGO from you; the community also has responsibility, as noted above. Quote:
You have the floor, please explain what "right" she has to destroy herself (and her unborn child); as to the community's desire (and responsibility) to prevent harm, surely that is a legitimate desire? Quote:
Poor diddums - that was my put down...... Quote:
An assured refutation of your Classical Liberal "natural individual rights" delusion is not 'snowflakes'; it's demolishing the basis of your extreme 'survival of the fittest' ("personal responsibility alone") ideology. The community also has a responsibility for its members' well-being; more than can be achieved by 50%+1 of self-interested individuals (reminds of newly-elected leaders promising to "serve ALL the people, not only those who voted for me"...a lie, of course). |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 17th, 2024 at 12:21pm Frank wrote on Jan 17th, 2024 at 11:47am:
SOME - eg the least competitve - will be "victims of capitalism", others of their genes. I know you are going to be a slow learner, but listen up: Those living in poverty are the victims of many causes, internal and external (causes examined in the article) , as well as the fault their own "choices" - confused with 'personal responsibility' by the 'survival of the fittest' enthusiast grappler. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Frank on Jan 17th, 2024 at 12:45pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 17th, 2024 at 12:21pm:
Are YOU a victim of capitalism or of your genes? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 17th, 2024 at 12:56pm Frank wrote on Jan 17th, 2024 at 12:45pm:
No. I was lucky enough to have a job all my working life, and gave up grog and cigs early on, so not a victim of my genes. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 17th, 2024 at 1:24pm
So YOU chose to give up cigs and booze - but those you deem to be victims of society have deficient genes that compel them to the booze and baccie... it's not their fault and not their choice... or is this 'choice' thing more of a ... you know... 'class' thing ....sounds reasonable...
As usual - your entire argument is falsely based... you live the very life that you say others cannot due to their circumstances... blither, blither ... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 17th, 2024 at 1:26pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 17th, 2024 at 12:08pm:
More GIGO from you; the community also has responsibility, as noted above. Quote:
You have the floor, please explain what "right" she has to destroy herself (and her unborn child); as to the community's desire (and responsibility) to prevent harm, surely that is a legitimate desire? Quote:
Poor diddums - that was my put down...... Quote:
An assured refutation of your Classical Liberal "natural individual rights" delusion is not 'snowflakes'; it's demolishing the basis of your extreme 'survival of the fittest' ("personal responsibility alone") ideology. The community also has a responsibility for its members' well-being; more than can be achieved by 50%+1 of self-interested individuals (reminds of newly-elected leaders promising to "serve ALL the people, not only those who voted for me"...a lie, of course). [/quote] Nonsense as usual.... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 17th, 2024 at 1:59pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 17th, 2024 at 1:24pm:
Poor comprehension on your part: 1. Yes, I chose to give up cigs and booze, for various reasons (cost, health, and ....I didn't have to struggle with gene-based addiction - identified as a cause of alcoholism in the article....). 2. Victims of society refers to victims of entrenched social and economic disadvantage which wasn't my family's experience. 3. Genes may or may not play a part in entrapment in entrenched poverty, it depends on the individual's genes Quote:
indeed: "class" is also a factor in entrenched disadvantage, obviously. Quote:
"falsely based": you mean..my rejection of your Classical Liberal 'natural individual rights' delusion? The problem is you have already decided entrenched disadvantage doesn't exist, because it's the fault of it's victims, and therefore not due to any external social/economic factors. So your ability to consider the causes of entrenched poverty is grossly inadequate, as explained in previous posts (due to your delusional Classical Liberal 'natural individual rights' ideology) Quote:
Did you miss it? Some are un-underemployed involuntarily, as will be graphicallly shown in the next recession (since you apparently can't read history). |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 17th, 2024 at 2:11pm
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zero comprehension on your part zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz just a heap of ideological nonsense zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Without getting into your endless pointless arguments - has to be a calculated move on your part to annoy people - so somebody 'had a gun pointed at them' years ago - that is still not the CAUSE of their resorting to alcohol etc - it may be a part reason they chose to go that way, but the choice was still theirs. I've had guns pointed at me - was at the Hilton bombing within minutes - none of that 'drove' me to drinking etc... personal issues later did... but when necessary I chose to give it up.... It's ALL about choices - not about 'victimhood' = victimhood industry.... Ooooh - I've had a hard life, man... You oughta see it from my side! |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Frank on Jan 17th, 2024 at 2:14pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 17th, 2024 at 12:56pm:
Who made you lucky? Who made you give up the cigs and the booze? Obviously nuffin' to do with your own self-directed autonomy which is a total neoliberal myth, as everybody who has read your posts knows by now. Or was it genes? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by UnSubRocky on Jan 17th, 2024 at 2:55pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 17th, 2024 at 11:10am:
Interesting opinion. My alcohol intake quadrupled in the covid period. Some joker in government decided that I was entitled to an extra $550/fortnight on top of what I was already getting. I basically went from a financially struggling position by my 41st birthday to one where I had an extra day off at work and 50% more income. You can imagine the lure of spending that day off in front of the computer would mean that I could spend that time drinking. It took another 18 months (and a usual once a week drinking session) before I was hit with a real triggered memory of a PTSD issue. The drinking went from once a week, to twice a week. I recall one week where I was drinking 4 litres of alcohol just to get through the week. Given that I have spent much of my money wasted on non-essentials, the drinking has subsided to once a fortnight. The focus on finishing my university course, and the desire to get fit, it is something that discredits your idea that educational or financial stress causes people to drink. The more pressure I am under, the less likely I am to drink. The less responsibilities I have, the more likely I am to drink. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 17th, 2024 at 7:55pm
Yeeee-uussssh - it's my genes that made me fat/alcoholic/lazy/crazy/gay/transgender/activist/predisposed to nerdism ... you name it.... I'm the victim here...
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Frank on Jan 17th, 2024 at 9:53pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 17th, 2024 at 7:55pm:
No, no, no - you are white. Well, off-white. That was your choice, supremacist oppressor. And you have a social disease. Oh, yes. ;) https://youtu.be/j7TT4jnnWys?si=9GaiyJum3kkBv1Ag |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Gnads on Jan 18th, 2024 at 5:45pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 17th, 2024 at 11:10am:
Oh perrrrlease ... just like drug addicts ey? They don't choose to pop pills or even worse stick needles in themselves???? phuckorffff ... the pussy soft world of lefties like you is just a justifier & excuse maker for every one with a hard luck story when it comes to people making shyte life choices around alcohol & drugs & crime. That's why the western world is in such a sorry state with rampant youth crime/crime & criminals in general. ::) |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Gnads on Jan 18th, 2024 at 5:57pm UnSubRocky wrote on Jan 17th, 2024 at 2:55pm:
;D ;D So you used the extra capital granted to you during Covid to get on the piss instead of using it wisely .... your choice and you want to blame the govt for giving it to you? ;D Typical of the excuse making, irresponsible, blame someone else generation you belong to. You phukking hopeless clown ... stop bludging off your family, stand up be a man, finish something that may give you a decent job, stick to it and make something of yourself to be proud of .... all you ever do is make excuses for your failures. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 19th, 2024 at 9:30am Frank wrote on Jan 17th, 2024 at 2:14pm:
I "chose" the right parents.....capiche? Total free will is an illusion: "give me the child and I will show you the man".... Quote:
I did, and I didn't have to struggle with a genetic disposition to substance addiction. Quote:
My own self-directed autonomy has come from a desire to prosper, and my awareness of the traps in the capitalist junk/unhealthy, greed-motivated consumer society. Quote:
The neoliberal 'myth' is based on the 'natural individual rights' myth, which is the basis of your ugly "individual freedom"/survival of the fittest ideology. And yes, genes are involved. "Deplorable". |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 19th, 2024 at 4:32pm
Talk about paddling neck deep n mythology - the independent individual sovereign thought idea doesn't exist but....
"My own self-directed autonomy has come from a desire to prosper, and my awareness of the traps in the capitalist junk/unhealthy, greed-motivated consumer society." |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Frank on Jan 19th, 2024 at 5:55pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 19th, 2024 at 9:30am:
My own self-directed autonomy has come from a desire to prosper, and my awareness of the traps in the capitalist junk/unhealthy, greed-motivated consumer society. Quote:
The neoliberal 'myth' is based on the 'natural individual rights' myth, which is the basis of your ugly "individual freedom"/survival of the fittest ideology. And yes, genes are involved. "Deplorable". [/quote] You spell out your own contradictions without being aware. That is what parroting stupidity means. You are the living example. Everyone sees it but you. You displayed individual, self-directed behaviour for 'ugly' self-preservation and 'mythological' survival. You are laughable. Google it. ;) ;D |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 19th, 2024 at 10:00pm
'Give me a child by age five and he is mine forever' - is more apt.
That other one is the same in disguise.... you mean the 'man' you will create of him.... bent out of shape by society's pliers... genetic predisposition to the booze - cop-out. He iss, avter all - ein Vrankenschtein! |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 19th, 2024 at 10:01pm
Now then - about this protest at OUR national park at Mt Warning come AUSTRALIA Day.
That woman - steeped in knowledge and teaching at the pre-natal clinic about the dangers of heavy drinking when pregnant - made her own choice. We're not responsible for her lack of dignity, her child's FAS, and we are not in the business of forcing horses to drink ..... or horse's arses for that matter..... A horse, intent on making a statement, walks into a bar, says to the barman.. "Do you serve horses here?" "Nay", replies the barman.... "But the sign outside says differently!", says the horse "Yes - but that's on a plate....." |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 19th, 2024 at 10:10pm
Labor government minister heads off for Mt Warning... sees two white guys pulling an Aborigine up the face with a rope through a pulley.... says,
"Look at that for integration! White guys helping that Aborigine cliff climb to the top!" One white guy turns to the other... "Jeez - these Canberra ministers don't know much about tracking down wild tigers escaped from the zoo, do they?" "Yeah - or about hunting drop bears, either!" |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 20th, 2024 at 10:29am Frank wrote on Jan 19th, 2024 at 5:55pm:
The neoliberal 'myth' is based on the 'natural individual rights' myth, which is the basis of your ugly "individual freedom"/survival of the fittest ideology. And yes, genes are involved. "Deplorable". [/quote] You spell out your own contradictions without being aware.[/quote] That's a good start, Frank; let's see you support you case with direct reference to points I'm making. Quote:
Er ....ok...for some reason you found it necessary to define " parroting stupidity", but I'm still waiting for your proofs, with reference to the points I made. Quote:
(At last....some actual debate...) Wrong; I displayed striving for my personal prosperity, in the context of striving for the minimum acceptable prosperity for all, as required by a sense of fairness, something which your crippled 'natural individual rights'-deluded brain apparently can't comprehend. Note: external (economic and social, nature) factors, as well as internal factors (personal responsibility, genes, nurture) apply in the attainment of prosperity. ie prosperity is not only a matter of personal responsibility. "No man is an island". Quote:
Don't need to google it: your premise was wrong, as shown above, hence your conclusion is garbage (GIGO). |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 20th, 2024 at 10:38am
What happened to the Mt Warning protest? Looks like dividie's home therapy session now...
Talk about de-railing discussions.... Anyone who shows up with a spear should be shot for resisting arrest ... lynching is appropriate for damaging cars and stuff ... time for a little of the old hard line .... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 20th, 2024 at 10:51am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 20th, 2024 at 10:38am:
What happened? The need to educate crippled minds liike yours is paramount, so an examination of ideological foundations is paramount, in any topic. Ofcourse, cultural mumbo jumbo which deprives people of the ability to enjoy various exhilirating natural sites is a pain in the arse. But education/understanding WHY people would want to deny access is also vital. And god knows you need educating..... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 20th, 2024 at 11:03am
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 20th, 2024 at 11:15am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 19th, 2024 at 10:00pm:
How so? Surely it's the same as "give me the child, and I will give you the man" - meaning individuals don't have free will independently of our social circumstances. Quote:
No "disguise", it's the same thing - though you are attempting to change the causation/agency of change from external to internal factors, when both are important (nature AND nurture). Quote:
Correct; that's why Muslim parents beget Muslim children, and it's extremely difficult for the child to resist that process. Quote:
Not a copout, but: https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/aboriginal-people-and-alcohol-not-a-genetic-predisposition-1.2660167#:~:text=The%20stereotype%20that%20aboriginal%20people,social%20conditions%20such%20as%20poverty. Aboriginal people and alcohol: Not a genetic predisposition Social conditions create a predisposition for alcoholism, medical expert says, not genetics Ok... either way you lose.... The article argues there's no difference (in genetic predisposition to alcohol addiction) between blacks and whites, a proposition the authors claim is "racist"...so we know where they are comimg from.... But the article doen't disprove differences in genetic predispostion among ALL humans... Quote:
The monster was created by ONE man, not social conventions. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 20th, 2024 at 11:38am
Give up while you're not ahead...
"Social conditions create a predisposition for alcoholism, medical expert says, not genetics" What an interesting opinion - so now we accept the opinion of one 'expert' as being the sole source of reality... there is NO 'predisposition' to alcoholism - there is a choice to adopt it .. Don't be a nong - you lost the moment you opened your mouth... now drop your childish attitude... that's once. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 20th, 2024 at 11:54am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 20th, 2024 at 11:38am:
more useless than Frank even, he attempts (now and again) to debate the issues; your crippled brain fades quickly.... Go back to sleep if you can't defend your argument, it'll be better for the world (and ozpol). Edit: I have just noticed the following: Quote:
revealing your lack of comprehension: the "expert" is asserting YOUR case re genetic predispostion, instead arguing my (other) case that entrenched poverty causes[i] 'learned hopelessness' (welfare dependency) |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 20th, 2024 at 11:58am
.
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 20th, 2024 at 12:11pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 20th, 2024 at 11:58am:
Finally I have just noticed "Don't be a nong - you lost the moment you opened your mouth... now drop your childish attitude... that's once." So my complete reply to your post (which I at first missed in its entirety) is: graps: Quote:
GD: revealing your lack of comprehension: the "expert" is asserting YOUR case re genetic predispostion, but he is also arguing my (other) case that entrenched poverty causes 'learned hopelessness' (welfare dependency). Graps: Quote:
Well, just saying I lost - without refuting my argument - doesn't cut the mustard. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Jan 20th, 2024 at 2:04pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 20th, 2024 at 10:38am:
It's not on till next week. It will be a peaceful, friendly occasion. Last year's was quite interesting. They let everyone who wanted to get on the soapbox, even the detractors. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 20th, 2024 at 3:15pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 20th, 2024 at 12:11pm:
Well, just saying I lost - without refuting my argument - doesn't cut the mustard. [/quote] Well - I'm not the one who keeps going round in circles over the same ground regardless of the subject matter. I refuse to be drawn into such madness and ........ damaged mind behaviour... as for your 'arguments' - you've never put one up to be refuted - just a series of statements, and what you do put up is shot to ribbons and you refuse to see it until you hit the ground in flames... Not one word you posted here in response warrants a reply ... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 20th, 2024 at 3:37pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 20th, 2024 at 3:15pm:
"the "expert" is asserting YOUR case against genetic predispostion, but he is also arguing MY (other) case that entrenched poverty causes 'learned hopelessness' (in welfare dependency)." Please address, or be exposed as a fraud, or mentally incompetent (most likely). |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by UnSubRocky on Jan 20th, 2024 at 5:12pm Gnads wrote on Jan 18th, 2024 at 5:57pm:
Nonsense. I blame myself for my situation. It has been about nearly 20 years since that last time I could blame other people for my then situation. I was quite alright with the government giving me an extra $550/fortnight. But, with the extra time for myself and the 'free' money, I spent much of that 2020 and 2021 having drinking nights. Had I just saved the money over that 2 year period, I probably could have had the house painted, or got a new hot water system installed, or maybe saved money for a new car. But, given my situation mentally, I decided to treat my newly triggered PTSD with alcohol. I would certainly swap my abusive upbringing and psychologically damaged life with that of yours -- one which seemingly is that of a fairly easy life. But, of course, you would probably prefer your mundane existence which was built upon an easy upbringing, regardless of how honourably your work ethic has been. I just happen to have had to deal with all the physical, financial, psychological/social attacks that I have had to endure. Post year 2016, I suppose I can say that I have been quite lazy with things (especially the last 3 years), not working more than 35 hours a week (and sometimes as little as 8). Alcoholism is a choice. But, it is not surprising when some people opt for regular drinking sessions, given their circumstances. I disagreed with thegreatdivide's assertion that alcoholism is the result of homelessness, financial strife, etc. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 20th, 2024 at 6:45pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 20th, 2024 at 3:37pm:
'exposed' as nothing.... you are turning around - you've always certified the victimhood industry - it's the fault of the way our society runs... no personal ownership of your own problems... You really have no idea - and I have zero obligation to engage in endless and mindless argument with you. NOTHING you've said so far supports the contention that a single 'expert' is the bee's knees of knowledge... like DUH... Speciar for today - Yu Ah Sum Ah So - fat-free soft sausage, sharp spi xi tong Sum Dum Cun - abalone with fish sauce, prawn head with butterfly brain. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Gnads on Jan 21st, 2024 at 7:48am UnSubRocky wrote on Jan 20th, 2024 at 5:12pm:
You don't know anything about what my life has been...I don't put everything to the keyboard of social media like you do in making your excuses. I know someone(your age) very close to home who has to tell their whole life story on FB etc in order to garner sympathy from friends & even people they don't really know. Everyone has a hard luck story. Yet after your abusive upbringing it still sees you grafting off your parents/relatives. Go figure. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 21st, 2024 at 10:49am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 20th, 2024 at 6:45pm:
"the victimhood industry" doesn't exist, people claiming they are hurt by certain policies does exist, though their arguments are sometimes flawed/misplaced. eg, the gap does exist, but blacks claiming it's "because Oz doesn't respect our culture" is a faulty argument. Quote:
Wrong, I just gave an example... Quote:
You have an obligation to counter the specifics of an argument, before claiming I'm ignorant/a parrot (or whatever). We were examining personal responsibility; I linked to articles showing factors beyond personal responsbility, eg. macroeconomic factors (like the fool Bullock's monetary policies) which may be implicated in the existance of individuals' unemployment and poverty. Quote:
I grabbed the first page which came up, examining alcohol and blacks; the expert claimed poverty causes alcoholism, not genes. Other experts have this to say: Alcohol use disorder (AUD) often seems to run in families, and we may hear about scientific studies of an “alcoholism gene.” Genetics certainly influence our likelihood of developing AUD, but the story isn't so simple. Research shows that genes are responsible for about half of the risk for AUD. About half - which reduces the efficacy of personal responsibility. Searching further: Around 50% to 60% of a person's risk for alcoholism is due to genetic factors. This means that genetics play a large role in alcoholism. But environmental factors and the interactions between genetics and the environment are also important. And those "environmental factors" were already listed in my earlier linked article. Can you link to an article which claims 'personal responsibility' alone is the determinant of outcomes for individuals, as you claim? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 21st, 2024 at 11:37am thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 21st, 2024 at 10:49am:
You have an obligation to counter the specifics of an argument, before claiming I'm ignorant/a parrot (or whatever). Not my words - I can safely leave those to others. your paranoia is showing. We were examining personal responsibility; I linked to articles showing factors beyond personal responsbility, eg. macroeconomic factors (like the fool Bullock's monetary policies) which may be implicated in the existance of individuals' unemployment and poverty. Why bother? We all know that already - we are seeking answers no endless Reg-style discussions..... why do you remain mired in the basics and keep repeating those like a parrot? Quote:
I grabbed the first page which came up, examining alcohol and blacks; the expert claimed poverty causes alcoholism, not genes. Other experts have this to say: Alcohol use disorder (AUD) often seems to run in families, and we may hear about scientific studies of an “alcoholism gene.” Genetics certainly influence our likelihood of developing AUD, but the story isn't so simple. Research shows that genes are responsible for about half of the risk for AUD. About half - which reduces the efficacy of personal responsibility. Searching further: Around 50% to 60% of a person's risk for alcoholism is due to genetic factors. This means that genetics play a large role in alcoholism. But environmental factors and the interactions between genetics and the environment are also important. And those "environmental factors" were already listed in my earlier linked article. Can you link to an article which claims 'personal responsibility' alone is the determinant of outcomes for individuals, as you claim? I never claimed it was 'responsible' - just that at the point of decision the individual had the choice of going there or not .... do you see the difference? You DENY personal choice, but then confirm it constantly ... very confused of you. An individual has the choice of changing environments ..... which is precisely what I tell people to do when they come to me about their awful dysfunctional family that perpetually drags them down, while stressing that it is not easy to do, but is the only way forward. There are those in life/families who embrace the family ethos - there are those who reject it.... often this is along birth order lines, especially in high dysfunction ... you will find that those who reject are often the much better find. [/quote] |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 21st, 2024 at 12:40pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 21st, 2024 at 11:37am:
Ah --yes; but here's the thing: you claim the 'victimhood industry' is a real thing, while ignoring the real basis of the disadvantage which gives rise to your misnamed 'victim industry', Which is really a 'disadvantage industry'; regardless of theories of causation, the disadvantage is real. And you say it's up to the individual to escape disadvantage, though you appear to admit (below) personal responsibility isn't the only factor involved in escaping disadvantage - no doubt because you see disadvantage as resulting from (subjective) 'victimhood'. Quote:
see above? Quote:
oh..so I'm NOT ignorant (parrot or otherwise). Thanks. Quote:
because macroeconomic settings (implemented by government), are as important as personal responsibility for individuals' outcomes. Quote:
Ah - so "choices" , rather than responsibility... Yes, I see the difference: but the external environment (and maybe genetics) influences those choices in different ways for different individuals, as numerous studies attest. Quote:
It's funny you should claim that - recall my comment above; you see disadvantage as resulting from (subjective) 'victimhood' rather than external circumstances beyond the choices of individuals (but no-one chooses economic recessions). Quote:
refuted above, you can't change environments in a global recession, or tight job market. Quote:
Good advice, if inadequate; government also has a responsibility to reduce the incidence of dysfunction in families and communities. Quote:
Again, only half the story; dysfunctioal families don't exist in isolation from the community around them. Social workers in the Alice are trying to create circumstances in which individuals in dysfunctional families will make better personal choices, but the government ought also be implemeting policies to reduce the incidence of dysfunction in the first place. Step 1. replace welfare dependency with paid work. Step 2. Don't argue over which comes first - the chicken (responsibility for welfare dependency) or the egg (a job provided by government acting as employer of last resort). Just do it. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 21st, 2024 at 2:46pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 21st, 2024 at 12:40pm:
because macroeconomic settings (implemented by government), are as important as personal responsibility for individuals' outcomes. Quote:
Ah - so "choices" , rather than responsibility... Not a DIRECT cause - as in 'responsible for' - the essence is what people choose to do with their situation .. not hard, you know. Yes, I see the difference: but the external environment (and maybe genetics) influences those choices in different ways for different individuals, as numerous studies attest. Of course many things influence those decisions - but that does not make those things 'responsible' for the individual being at that crossroads.... it isn't always because 'society did it to them' - the essence of the victimhood industry.... Quote:
It's funny you should claim that - recall my comment above; you see disadvantage as resulting from (subjective) 'victimhood' rather than external circumstances beyond the choices of individuals (but no-one chooses economic recessions). No - I do not - I see the two as separate issues.... one may not choose all of one' environment - but one chooses to be or to remain a victim by claiming everything wrong is always due to some source out of their control - including 'genetics'. It's called 'cop-out'. Quote:
refuted above, you can't change environments in a global recession, or tight job market. Doesn't mean the individual has to remain mired in the mud they are in... or become an alcoholic or whatever, or play the perpetual victim. Quote:
Good advice, if inadequate; government also has a responsibility to reduce the incidence of dysfunction in families and communities. Well - set them to it - not that they're doing much of a job of it with groups such as Alice Springs Abos.... a little bit of talk... it's a sheila thing... hold a chat-fest and do nothing.... Quote:
Again, only half the story; dysfunctioal families don't exist in isolation from the community around them. Social workers in the Alice are trying to create circumstances in which individuals in dysfunctional families will make better personal choices, but the government ought also be implemeting policies to reduce the incidence of dysfunction in the first place. Step 1. replace welfare dependency with paid work. ... and this 'work' - how does it meaningfully contribute to the economy and even the outlook of those invovled... a. by creating more divide .... internal and external ... now that's brilliant .... Step 2. Don't argue over which comes first - the chicken (responsibility for welfare dependency) or the egg (a job provided by government acting as employer of last resort). I don't argue over responsibility for 'welfare dependency' - I simply state facts which do not apply to all equally - if the cap fits... wear it. All been tried to no avail... next!! Just do it. [/quote] |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 21st, 2024 at 6:14pm
Graps, you need to re-format #135 (your reply to my #134 (if you want a debate).
Meantime I will see if I can extrictate some of your argument, despite the faulty format in #135. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 21st, 2024 at 7:15pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 21st, 2024 at 2:46pm:
Perception of disadvantage caused by external forces is not a "victimhood industry". Quote:
The issue is systemic disadvantage caused by external cirumstances, versus personal choices following perceptions of "victimhood". You have to consider the macro economic circumstances beyond the control of individuals. Quote:
The problem is - it IS hard; an entire generation was scarred by the 1990 recession, and involuntary unemployment is still scarring some peoples' lives aka involutary welfare dependency. Quote:
But when external circumstances are the CAUSE of individuals being brought to "making decisions at the crossroads" (eg in a recession)? Crime might be an attractive, even necessary option. Quote:
That word "always" is problematic for your argument: when individuals ARE disadvantaged by external circumstances (as you admit), bad choices are sometimes made....and science claims genetics can predispose some individuals to bad choices, quite apart from bad choices made by individuals living in poverty/welfare dependency. Quote:
Correct, but it may mean the individual has to learn how to "successfully" subsist on "welfare".... no mean feat. Quote:
As I've tried to educate you, government is suffering under Thatcher's delusion - accepted by the public - "there's no such thing as public money, only taxpayer money"...hence government can never 'pay for' the required policies, because taxpayers don't like ...paying tqxes. Quote:
Useful work of any type is appreciated by society, by definition - it's useful and beneficial to payer (the govt. ) and payee (the worker) and hence to the entire community. Quote:
And if the cap doesn't fit? I think your analogy sidesteps the issue of welfare dependency and its causes. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 21st, 2024 at 11:32pm
Well - the protests are going ahead regardless of whether the disadvantage of the state government that closed off some of our national parks for no valid reason is their own responsibility or the responsibility of economic conditions or adherence or non-adherence to some strange ideological concept.
We shouldn't even be discussing this as a black and white issue - it is a people vs the government issue - again... just another foray in the Never-Ending Civil War Between People and Elected Government Over Whether Or Not That Government Possesses Any Divine Right... or whether the People have the Divine Right to say YES or NO and have it accepted without question. It isn't State's Rights that is creating this Never-Ending Civil War - it is People's Rights... in this case The People V The State Of NSW ..... True government of the people, by the people and for the people comes from an informed vote - not some mythical mandate. You imagine I play Dixie here out of some idea of wharte supremacy, boy? Or some idea that the raghts of the state supercede all others? No, suh! Ah plays Dixie to represent the rightful wishes of The People to tell the State and Federals what is right and what is wrong for them. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 22nd, 2024 at 6:41am thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 21st, 2024 at 6:14pm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aae_RHRptRg |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 22nd, 2024 at 9:42am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 21st, 2024 at 11:32pm:
I presume this is your reply to #137. Showing graps characterization of the perception of disadvantage which is caused by external circumstances, as the "victimhood industry". Indeed the disadvantaged are victims, but not due to a "victimhood" industry. Spot the difference? The errors in your above paragraph are these: you have taken the specific case of the Mt Warning closure, and presented it as an example of "the victimhood industry", conflating examples of perceived disadvantage caused by personal responsibility (belief in a culture) with real disadvantage caused by external factors (macro economic dysfunction). Rejection by non-sympathetic whites of black cultural claims to Mt Warning are an example of self-inflicted disadvantage (by blacks themselves), indeed what you are referring to as the "victim industry", reinforced by some whites who are sympathetic to those black cultural claims. So the state government (in closing the park) didn't cause the original "disadvantage" as perceived by blacks (when the park ws open), it caused uproar among those who want the park to remain open - hence this thread. (Government is tough....). Quote:
You are correct (except the 'people' are not united...see below ) , but the issue of disadvantage, its causes, and who is responsible for it remains as a significant issue to be solved. Quote:
Er ..back to your Libertarian rants.... Yes, the Mt Warning 'holy site' crap is a pain in the arse (in MY opinion...) , but real black disadvantage measured by the gap must be fixed. Quote:
Well , blacks have their cutural beliefs like everyone; the state has to adjudicate between the peoples' differing beliefs, and peoples' self-interest). Quote:
An informed vote? That's a tall order, given the gross ignorance and blind ideologies of the general population.... Quote:
No - I know your world view is compromised by your delusions re "natural individual rights". |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 22nd, 2024 at 11:14am
An example of some people's utter ignorance, stupidity, and blind ideology:
Outrage from Sky News host Rowan Dean, commenting on Guterres' legitimate condemnation of Netanyahu's 'no Palestinian state' ideology - what a half wit. https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/antonio-guterres-is-outraged-at-citizens-valuing-independence/ar-BB1h2uv6?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=ENTPSP&cvid=3263d07bc8a04667915aa50d6e18c7a0&ei=9 Antonio Guterres is ‘outraged’ at citizens valuing independence Sky News host Rowan Dean says United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres is “outraged” at citizens valuing their independence. Mr Dean also calls the UN Secretary-General the “Head Kommissar of the United Socialist Nations” after he spoke at a press conference saying future generations can’t survive with the societal infrastructure which exists now. See how blind ideology cripples Dean's brain? How does he conflate "citizens valuing their independence" with rejection (or implemetaion) of the 2-state solution? He's just another anti-rule of law Libertarian fool, who insists the only choice is between capitalism or communist dictatorship. SKY NEWS, the home comfortable conservatives, and their 'natural individual rights" delusion. Deplorable. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Frank on Jan 22nd, 2024 at 11:18am
“Poor old unelected Guterres is upset that there are countries and citizens out there who value their own independence and political agency and there are companies out there who still believe that their job is to make a profit,” Mr Dean said.
“Translated from the original communist manifesto, what Guterres basically is saying ‘let's scrap capitalism and democracy’ that have been so effective, and impose socialist authoritarianism, which has been a disaster, which is built on surveillance and compliance and authoritarianism in the name of fighting climate change and mysterious pandemics." |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 22nd, 2024 at 12:50pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 22nd, 2024 at 9:42am: We are discussing the government's closure of our national parks - not 'disadvantage'. If you can't handle that, get back to your money strand... 'debate' to your heart's content.... Now then - our RIGHT to free use of national parks.... now where would such a RIGHT come from? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by UnSubRocky on Jan 22nd, 2024 at 1:27pm Gnads wrote on Jan 21st, 2024 at 7:48am:
Nup. Do not know a thing about your life. Nor do I need to know. I have given snippets of my own life's "hard luck" stories. But nothing to speak of being relevant to having a hard time since the year 2016. I have "reasons" why I don't succeed in some things in life. Not excuses. If being unknowingly poisoned, stabbed, shot at, subjected to murder threats, blackmailed, defamed, and had fraudulent claims made against me is something typical other people have had done to them, then I have no reason to see this as anything worse than they. But, I reckon I must have some near national record of "hard luck stories" that give me reason to think that I am owed a living. Given that I am passing the 8-year mark of the end of my troubles, it would have been wise to have taken advantage and gotten on with my life without the booze. But that is the thing. I don't drink under stress. And having relaxed in the last few years, I have taken the drink up. Therefore, thegreatdivide's claim that problems in people's lives cause people to drink is a bit backward in reality. People who go on about their lives on social media to get sympathy are usually given a "too much information" response by others. It was only the other night that some guy walked into my workplace and got my attention to tell me that he had been made homeless (kicked out of home) that afternoon and wanted to know if I could help him. A Phil Collins song started ruminating in my head as I tried to think of an answer to a question for which I was not prepared. It are those kinds of questions that sober someone like me up. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 22nd, 2024 at 2:43pm Frank wrote on Jan 22nd, 2024 at 11:18am:
Utter garbage as expected from a blind "individual freedom" ideologue like Dean. The UN was created by nations coming together after WW2, "to save mankind from the scourge of war"; nothing to do with Dean's communist fantasies. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 22nd, 2024 at 3:03pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 22nd, 2024 at 12:50pm:
You could have said that ages ago, before you started displaying your Libertarian fantasies and your resulting confusion re disadvantage, personal responsibility, and choice. Quote:
As I said, others were also biting, on the issue of delusional 'natural individual rights'.....which is also connected to Thatcher's widely held "no such thing as public money" delusion. My task is to disabuse ozpol members of both delusions, so we can indeed institute government which engenders prosperity for all. Quote:
From the DESIRE for free use of national parks; note: blacks - even educated ones - obviously don't think there is any such "right". I think a better approach is to guarantee blacks prosperity in the modern economy (via a job guarantee), in exchange for giving up cultural mumbo-jumbo re Mt Warning. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Jan 22nd, 2024 at 3:06pm
Anyone who says 'Black' is both a North American and northern hemisphere brained.
Only a true Australian would say Koori, tribal name or at least Aborigine (for want of Cheer Mob). |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 22nd, 2024 at 5:45pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 22nd, 2024 at 3:03pm:
I think a better approach is to guarantee blacks prosperity in the modern economy (via a job guarantee), in exchange for giving up cultural mumbo-jumbo re Mt Warning. [/quote] All nonsense - as dear old mothra would say - so much wrong with this there is no time to be bothered... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 22nd, 2024 at 6:52pm
It appears that some of the True Racists here adhere to the idea that ONLY the Aborigines have any right to determine what is and what isn't a 'Right' to suit themselves - the ONLY ones with some right to self-determination and the use of the corrupt and decadent money system to get what they want - but the majority, the Others, have Buckley's Chance of even having a fair hearing of any such same-same right in this once-great and once-proud democracy of ours...
Never in the field of human conflict has so much been owed by so many to so few True Racists...... Let's see what dividie* can come back with there.... Let us not forget - again for the VERY slow ones here - the state 'government' closed off access to Mt Warning and a few other places on the grounds of safety - according to them it had nothing to do with Aboriginal Special Rights ... so the argument, despite some rank idiot posturing about spearing people, is between People and Government..... Then let us so bear ourselves that if the Woke Empire lasts a thousand years - they shall say that THIS was their Fillthiest Hour! A time to restore Rights, A time for Race Division A time for sense and unity * we all know 'dividie' - he's the same-same turkey who likes to think that going round and round and trying to confuse people and never once accepting when he is bested, and insulting others, is a fun way of smart trolling - well - there is no 'smart' trolling .... as his forebear found out... jeez dividie would go a treat arguing with religious groups about transgenderism - that false god ... Release The Hounds!! |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 23rd, 2024 at 10:14am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 22nd, 2024 at 5:45pm:
All nonsense - as dear old mothra would say - so much wrong with this there is no time to be bothered... [/quote] Common graps, that's not how it works. You even crossed out this point which YOU raised, which is 'on topic', and which I answered: Graps question: "our RIGHT to free use of national parks.... now where would such a RIGHT come from?" GD's answer: "From the DESIRE for free use of national parks; note: blacks - even educated ones - obviously don't think there is any such "right"". Unfortunately for you, you have to show - via reasoned argument - where I'm wrong, rather than just simply crossing the answer out. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 23rd, 2024 at 11:03am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 22nd, 2024 at 6:52pm:
Ah...so now you deign to present a reasoned argument, let's see what you got... Quote:
No; my argument is: 1. Rights don't exist in nature (refuting the Classical Liberal dogma), on the contrary, only desires which are formulated/designated as "rights", exist in law. 2. As proof, in the case of entry "rights" re Mt Warning: blacks don't recognize any such "rights" because their law re Mt Warning is different to white man's law (before the govt. recognized native law and closed the park). Nothing to do with 'racism' and whether I am a "True Racist" or not; everything to do with your "natural rights" delusion, as explained above. Law is the basis of "rights", nature is not. And the culture of the community will determine those "rights" in law. So the rest of your post will be GIGO: Quote:
Yep, GIGO - rule of law, of necessity, overrules self-determination by self-interested individuals Quote:
Already done, see how easy it was? Quote:
Well if that was the case, the pollies involved were idiots, or lying, or both. The only reason with any substance is respect (misplaced in my view) for black law (culture). Quote:
..and it's time governments instituted prosperity for all, instead of being sucked into the vortex of self-interested individuals subject to delusional ideologies. Quote:
Indeed; but the process of lifting the veil of delusion is difficult. Quote:
That seems to be your chief interest; I'm not interested, we can all prosper (transgender or not) given good governance and an informed economic polity..... though I would argue about the 'divinity of scripture' with religious groups. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Jan 27th, 2024 at 4:24pm
Unfortunately a lot of these are paywalled.
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/tweed-heads/mt-warningwollumbin-defiance-hikers-rally-against-sacred-mountain-climbing-ban-in-tweed-shire-northern-nsw/news-story/df51d99fe9cfaf2368a138a12c1a79eb https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13008479/Mt-Warning-Wollumbin-protestors-defy-climbing-ban-Australia-Day-sunrise.html |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Frank on Jan 27th, 2024 at 6:22pm freediver wrote on Jan 27th, 2024 at 4:24pm:
https://www.essentiallysports.com/viral-sports-moments-hiking-news-protesters-scale-mount-warning-despite-ban-by-authorities-as-tensions-rise-on-australia-day/ |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 27th, 2024 at 8:24pm
Well - being a NATIONAL park confers on all the right to use it and enjoy the spirituality of the sunrise etc. Stuff the minority whingers.
What part of NATIONAL do you not understand? Stuff the whingers and stuff the governments!! |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 28th, 2024 at 4:46am
**enter extreme right, disguised as left - Ho Chi Minns**
It won't be easy, you'll think it strange When I try to explain how we feel That we still need your votes after all that we've done You won't believe us, all you will see is the Labour you once knew Although it's dressed up to the nines At sixes and sevens with you We had to let it happen, it's not our fault Couldn't stay all our lives down at heel Looking out for the workers, fingers stuck in the vault So we chose identity, mobs running around tearing everything down But nothing changed things for them at all Though somehow they expected it to Please vote for us, Australiana The truth is, Labor never left you All through our salad days, our mad existence We kept our promise Now you're all distanced. And as for fortune, and as for fame We never invited them in Though it seemed to the world that we lapped them all up They are illusions for you, they're our solutions they promised to be The answer was here all the time We love you, and still need your vote Please vote for us, Australiana The truth is, Labor never left you All through Black power days, our mad existence We kept our promise Now you're all distanced. Have I said too much? There's nothing more I can think of to say to you But all you have to do is look at me to know That every word is untrue |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Jan 28th, 2024 at 10:56am Quote:
Why would the ABC decline to report on the fact that there was a protest? There is nothing stopping them digging up alternative views, if they actually exist, but they seem to be shrouded in mystery. Not reporting anything at all is not balance, it is keeping their readers in the dark. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 28th, 2024 at 11:05am
"your event only tells one side of the story" ... so thus we'll ignore it..
I'd say it tells MOST sides of the story... the ABC view, of course, is there is only one side - the approved Aboriginal side, and that thus all other sides are irrelevant.... i.e. the Aboriginal 'event' only tells one side of the story .................... Yardle, yardle, yardle.... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 28th, 2024 at 12:00pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 27th, 2024 at 8:24pm:
Interestingly, blacks are not united on closing Mt Warning, they are dividing on gender lines......(!) Some black women are saying 'the men only mythology' is BS. https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/protestors-defy-mt-warning-wollumbin-climbing-ban-by-traditional-owners-to-gather-for-second-year-in-a-row-to-see-an-australia-day-sunrise/ar-BB1hhAz5?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=ENTPSP&cvid=745750471db1479bb5ef6a4d6ed02e6e&ei=12 Mr Boyd's mother Marlene has been referred to as the custodian of Mt Warning and his sister Elizabeth has campaigned against the Wollumbin Consultative Group claims. Quote:
The part which says 50% + 1 determines (non-existent) "rights". And the part which says a nation can make war on another nation, in the age of MAD. Quote:
Your fascism is showing..... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Jan 28th, 2024 at 12:05pm Quote:
Much better to have the CCP tell you eh? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 28th, 2024 at 12:26pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 28th, 2024 at 12:00pm:
Your fascism is showing.....No - yours is... [/quote] |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 28th, 2024 at 12:27pm freediver wrote on Jan 28th, 2024 at 12:05pm:
The CCP has a goal of common prosperity. So - assuming the CCP is not derailed by orthodox 'survival of the fittest' Western neoclassical economics - yes. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 28th, 2024 at 12:42pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 28th, 2024 at 12:26pm:
Well, the tiny minority gained the support of the governing parties. How did it happen? Hint: a failure of governments to honestly examine the need to eclipse the h-g culture, and assist its transition to the modern world eg with a Job Guarantee. Quote:
My "fascism" is based on support for rule of law on behalf of prosperity for all, yours is based on delusional 'natural individual rights' ideology in support of individuals' greed- based, "invisible hand" claims on the nation's resources. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 28th, 2024 at 12:52pm Well, the tiny minority gained the support of the governing parties. How did it happen? It's called sell-out/betrayal/refusing to abide by the will of the majority in a democracy Hint: a failure of governments to honestly examine the need to eclipse the h-g culture, and assist its transition to the modern world eg with a Job Guarantee. Quote: No - yours is... My "fascism" is based on support for rule of law on behalf of prosperity for all, yours is based on delusional 'natural individual rights' ideology in support of individuals' greed- based, "invisible hand" claims on the nation's resources. No - MINE is based on support for the rules of law on behalf of prosperity for ALL, YOURS is based on artificially promoting the interests of a few - in classical Fascist manner - and over-riding the wishes and will of the majority, using force if necessary.... the force of lawfare meaning law wrongfully used for a purpose it was never intended. It's a favourite of Fascists like you, Xi, Albo and countless others. EVERYTHING the Nazis did was according to their rule of law.... you and all those and more abuse law and its intended use, and cloak your Fascism behind smarmy comments about 'disadvantage' and such. “The end of law is not to abolish or restrain, but to preserve and enlarge freedom. For in all the states of created beings capable of law, where there is no law, there is no freedom.” - John Locke. 'The end of Law is not the perversion of Justice, nor is it the extinction of Liberty'. - Rastus X (Rastus Xavier) |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 28th, 2024 at 12:54pm
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 28th, 2024 at 1:55pm
Let's expand this a little - one day you'll all get it:-
"Well, the tiny minority gained the support of the governing parties. How did it happen? It's called sell-out/betrayal/refusing to abide by the will of the majority in a democracy" = Bolshevism - which is itself just another form of Fascist rule by a self-appointed minority elite... it's pretty much a worldwide phenomenon.... some call it pure Fascism... some call it 'socialism' ... some call it communism ... some call it neo-conservative over-control of the economy etc.... All of those miss the point - it is part of human nature ... ideology comes along second as a self-justification for the poorest and most primitive approach to life.. the takeover by a minority armed with guns or with laws of the proper province of the populace as a whole - for their own ends first and foremost.... the control of the group by the biggest hairy chested one in it....and now women get an equal share in the hair.... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 28th, 2024 at 2:12pm
Graps:
Quote:
But why did the governing party "refuse to abide by the will of the majority"? After all, they want to get re-elected, like all polies... (requiring at least 50%+1). Graps: Quote:
ROTFL, ...but let's see if you can present an argument to back up that delusional assertion... Note; "prosperity" first refers to access to the essentials of living, for all. Quote:
Wrong, by definition: I'm arguing for common prosperity (not the same as equality of outcome); you are arguing for outcomes based on individuals' abilities, driven by self-interest, iow based on survival of the fittest ideology. Quote:
1. the wishes of self-interested individuals in the aggregate (c. 50%+1) is THE problem. The greed-based "invisible hand" market alone can never create prosperity for all. because the most competitive will naturally claim the largest share of resources. 2. Certainly, law guaranteeing housing and jobs for all is a precondition of prosperity for all, "force" is moot. Quote:
You forgot Franco and all RW fascist dictators protecting the wealthy class. Albo at least is concerned with better outcomes for the low/middle class. Quote:
correct; law which served the interests of German nationalism and (hoped for) imperialism, not the common prosperity of the German people. Quote:
Refuted above, with argument; we are still waiting for your argument to support your statement " MINE is based on support for the rules of law on behalf of prosperity for ALL". You might start by defining what YOU mean by "prosperity for ALL". The significance of that last capitalization is intriguing, no doubt it doesn't mean "for all"..... or do I have the meaning of prosperity wrong; do I have to google a definition for you? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 28th, 2024 at 2:33pm
The end of law is not to abolish or restrain, but to preserve and enlarge freedom. For in all the states of created beings capable of law, where there is no law, there is no freedom.” - John Locke.
Cicero agrees with the 2nd sentence in that paragraph, but disagrees with the first: All must submit to rule of law, if all are to be free" ie not living in chaos. But law must of necessity "restrain" (adjudicate) between competitng desires of self-interested individuals. [It will be fascinating to see how the SCOTUS rules on Trump's eligibility to stand in the upcoming US elections]. [quote]'The end of Law is not the perversion of Justice, nor is it the extinction of Liberty'. - Rastus X (Rastus Xavier) Correct, but he doesn't say what IS "the end of law" ..... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 28th, 2024 at 2:43pm
"The end of law is not to abolish or restrain, but to preserve and enlarge freedom. For in all the states of created beings capable of law, where there is no law, there is no freedom.” - John Locke.
Cicero agrees with the 2nd sentence in that paragraph, but disagrees with the first: All must submit to rule of law, if all are to be free" So why do you see any conflict between the two> Are you one of them extremists who only see black and white? ie not living in chaos. But law must of necessity "restrain" (adjudicate) between competitng desires of self-interested individuals. unless, of course, in this day and age they are 'special' children marked for 'special' treatment and a series of entitlements™ not ever held by the majority.... and we all know where 'special treatment' ends.... [It will be fascinating to see how the SCOTUS rules on Trump's eligibility to stand in the upcoming US elections]. [quote]'The end of Law is not the perversion of Justice, nor is it the extinction of Liberty'. - Rastus X (Rastus Xavier) Correct, but he doesn't say what IS "the end of Law" ..... English, my lad - it simply means the aim/purpose of Law - not 'law' or 'legislation' or 'regulation' - all of which must, in turn, be bound by Law. Everything Stalin or the Nazis did was passed by their legislators.... but not passed by the rule of Law as perceived by the body of Mankind - same as - say - a Mt Warning closure for no valid reason ......" |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 28th, 2024 at 2:45pm
Graps writes :
Quote:
You certainly need to; I have rebunked you completely in my last three posts, so far. Quote:
I have been trying to open your eyes to human nature for a long time now; it ranges from angelic to hellish... That's why I'm arguing for law instituting prosperity for all (still waiting for your definition) and international law outlawing war as dispute settlement mechanism between nations. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 28th, 2024 at 3:21pm
Freediver - this thread is stuffed...
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 28th, 2024 at 3:24pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 28th, 2024 at 3:21pm:
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ... the fount of all knowledge has spoken - refutes everything - just ask him - that's him burning on the ground over there.... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Jan 29th, 2024 at 12:27pm
[quote author=The_Grappler link=1704186556/171#171 date=1706419448][quote author=The_Grappler link=1704186556/170#170 date=1706419310]Freediver - this thread is stuffed...
No it's not: the problem is you don't want to consider the causes of the tribal/cultural divide re Mt. Warning, you just want to enforce your own desires re Mt. Warning, on the basis of a majority vote. We see how well that works, in the US Capitol riots.... The minority will of course always fight back, until they are 'enlightened'.... Civilization is a race between education and catastrophe" HG Wells. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Jan 29th, 2024 at 1:40pm
https://nine.social/x32
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Jan 29th, 2024 at 8:44pm
Go Sturt!
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1596546277548381 https://www.facebook.com/reel/1596546277548381 |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Jan 29th, 2024 at 8:46pm
Oh hell. That sounds awful FD.
You do realise that you're the only white guy banned from Mt Warning. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Jan 29th, 2024 at 8:46pm
That's supposed to be a video of Sturt Boyd on the Tweed Daily News facebook page. If you are seeing a band, that is the wrong video, but if you copy and paste the URL it should work.
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Jan 30th, 2024 at 5:58am
On Sky News:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SYv6r4vldI |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Jan 30th, 2024 at 12:23pm
Another one:
https://soundcloud.com/user-256364995/ben-fordham-2gb-mt-warning-30-jan-2024?fbclid=IwAR3trTZgKQvzxYyGbiHS-9ME4Y6Oc-IB6WsAguS6sDOBIGOqpp933DBYzus |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Jan 30th, 2024 at 4:19pm
Sorry White guy. But until you pay the 'blood sacrifice' to the Aborigines - you can not pass GO here and you can not collect $200.
Sure a Church is not a Mountain, but the Boongs aren't basing their existence on Architecture/Religion, as they are as 'bound to the land' as Politics is to the English Language and Accountancy is to Maths. Maybe White People should have stuck to the 'Land' like they did 6,000 years ago in the Ages of Faeries and other woodland spirits. Boongs own the Land and its upon their word, not Whitey's what can and can't be done, experienced etc. Whitey says what can and can't be done in regards to Politics & Law. The Brown man 'owns' Religion but its his call if you want to participate in that. Just that you Whiteys hug the Coastlines in your colonisation, because you know this to be true. Whitey belongs 'under water'. This land is already taken - not just by occupation, but by a total state of being that rivals any form of patriotism. They and the Land are One. Whitey needs to go for a swim and learn to live underwater. ;D Remember. No such thing as an Australian. It's just the Boongs and an International Community here. ;) |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Jan 30th, 2024 at 8:47pm
More on sky news - Marc Hendrickx interview.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=236018516145566 |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 30th, 2024 at 9:54pm
But they don't own the land and they don't say yes or no..... their native title says they can use the land for traditional purposes - same as all others can for their traditional purposes such as camping and bushwalking and climbing... and the boongs didn't close it - your suck-hole government did with a flimsy excuse after allowing the trail to the top to run down and then crying safety concerns .... not the first time such filthy tricks have been used by a government you pay for in order to rort you of your rights.
Bring the hanging ropes..... a necktie party is a terrible thing - and I think it is time we had one!!! Nice to see some real native owners stand up for everyone equally.... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Jan 30th, 2024 at 10:03pm
You're banned from sacred land Mt Warning too Grapps.
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Title: Re: Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 30th, 2024 at 11:12pm wrote on : Ah'll be bach ...... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Jan 31st, 2024 at 9:01pm
I should make that 'Native Titlers' - not 'owners' ... mistake on my part ....
the great divide is a troll get stuck into him |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Jan 31st, 2024 at 10:08pm
FD should sneak in, trip over and injure himself and take the local Cheer Mob to court. :D
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 1st, 2024 at 5:17am
One of them was on facebook threatening to spear anyone who went into the national park.
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Feb 1st, 2024 at 6:43am
Why don't you take a spear too? Call it your walking stick.
Come now FD. Surely a big fella like yourself isn't worried about some stick to stick fighting with a little boong? "...an aborigine was found injured at Mr Warning with a spear sticking out of his leg today. Authorities are looking into the matter about inter-tribal warfare but are confused by the victim's accusation that he was attacked by a tresspassing White man." |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 1st, 2024 at 7:21am
I don't think that will be necessary Jasin.
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 1st, 2024 at 8:13am freediver wrote on Feb 1st, 2024 at 7:21am:
And so the police should be - there is no 'trespass' involved in using his own national park.... your idea of spearing back has merit though... white man's spears work better from a distance... better technology ... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 1st, 2024 at 8:14am Jasin wrote on Feb 1st, 2024 at 6:43am:
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 1st, 2024 at 8:15am
Freediver - this post is not working properly - a 'quote' takes the wrong one and then will not permit the poster to modify it ...
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 1st, 2024 at 8:37am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 1st, 2024 at 8:15am:
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 1st, 2024 at 2:49pm freediver wrote on Feb 1st, 2024 at 8:37am:
The bigger problem is you and FD don't want to consider the causes of the tribal/cultural divide re Mt. Warning, you just want to enforce your own desires re Mt. Warning, on the basis of a majority vote. We see how well that works, in the US Capitol riots.... The minority will of course always fight back, until they are 'enlightened'.... Civilization is a race between education and catastrophe" HG Wells. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 1st, 2024 at 3:24pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jan 30th, 2024 at 9:54pm:
It's better than 50 million people starving to death because a bunch of communist morons think they can do a better job at feeding them than they can at feeding themselves. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 1st, 2024 at 5:45pm
https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/security-guards-paid-7k-a-week-to-guard-mount-warning/news-story/36a62bbd71593f6dac0382b7b0e5211b
Security guards paid $7k a week to guard Mount Warning A war of words has broken out after security guards were hired to guard a popular mountain which has been closed to the public since March 2020. Mount Warning in Wollumbin National Park in northern NSW was closed in March 2020 due to Covid-19 restrictions. Then in December 2020, the track was closed again due to safety concerns. In July 2021, the Wollumbin Aboriginal Place Management plan recommended the track be closed permanently, a recommendation which resulted in the then NSW government closing the mountain “pending further discussions”. During its closure, the mountain has been guarded by security to the tune of $7000 a week. NSW upper house MP John Ruddick told news.com.au it was a “sad and terrible joke” that private security guards were hired to keep people away from a mountain. “Mount Warning is(part of) a national park like any other, it is a taxpayer funded asset of our state that should be enjoyed, appreciated, and respected by all Australians,” he said. “This is why I am seeking support for a parliamentary inquiry; this inquiry will empower all community stakeholders to have their say rather than just a few. “It is my hope that this will lead to the reopening of Mount Warning in a respectful and responsible way. “Ngaraakwal Elder Marlene Boyd who sadly passed away said ‘How can the public experience the spiritual significance of this land if they do not climb the summit and witness creation?”.’ The Wollumbin Aboriginal Place Management plan argued public access to the site has resulted in vandalism, the dumping of rubbish, increased erosion, and illegal installation of infrastructure. The document said the key cultural and spiritual values of the place cannot be respected or protected if the general public continues to have access. The plan also states the mountain is considered a “men’s site” and that the “sanctity” of Wollumbin Aboriginal Place “may also manifest physically”, making people sick or putting women in “physical danger”. “For example, if women access areas that are restricted to men, women are in physical danger and likewise for men,” the plan stated. NSW environment minister Penny Sharpe declined to comment to news.com.au. On January 26, almost 100 protesters gathered to rally against the closure of the mountain. Campaigner Marc Hendrickx, who wrote the book A Guide To Climbing Mount Warning told The Daily Telegraph the national park and the summit “deserves better than the misguided treatment it has received from the current authorities”. Mr Hendrickx said the NSW National Parks and Wildlife Service “let the country down”. “The closure was based on lies and falsehoods about the environmental impact of visitors and the safety of the walking route,” he said. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Feb 1st, 2024 at 6:01pm Quote:
Great job boosting the local economy, well done. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 1st, 2024 at 6:09pm
Brilliant idea by Labor. Just what the region needs. People being paid to do nothing.
The Daily Telegraph https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au › ... › Tweed-heads 21 Jan 2023 — Hospitality venues across the Tweed are feeling the ripple effects of a widespread worker shortage |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Setanta on Feb 1st, 2024 at 6:10pm
I'd say the security is not there to stop people climbing or entering per se, but to stop the violence that would inevitably happen with the breaking of car windows and slashing of tyres and threats of spearing by people that should be locked up to protect the public and their property.
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Feb 1st, 2024 at 6:27pm freediver wrote on Feb 1st, 2024 at 6:09pm:
Didn't the ban start when the libs were in govt? :D :D Perhaps if they stop cutting penalty rates hospitality venues might not struggle to find staff ::) |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Feb 1st, 2024 at 6:55pm
What's the big deal about Mt Warning?
I mean, I can understand why any part of Australia's natural environment has a special meaning to the Aborigines. They and this land have been part of each other's existence far longer than any other people's to their lands and we know how many nations spill their blood for the sake of them, let alone take others. How would the Gaelics and Britons of Britain like it if another invasive people from overseas took control, vandalised and destroyed Stonehenge (just a pile of rocks from Primitive peoples) for a new Carpark? But what's the big deal to all these people who still live under an International connection to their past lives - about Mt Warning? Especially when it gets vandalised, churned up by dirt bikes, rubbish left everywhere and just to have people go for walks without really knowing much about the environment of Mt Warning itself? Seems the only thing the Mountain has achieved for non-aborigines is to give them a 'warning' to stay out. Not a real good outcome. Maybe they should rename it Mt Welcome or the original name given it by the Aborigines... the 'Elves' of the Land? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 1st, 2024 at 7:33pm
Violation by stealth of basic human right to equal treatment.... discrimination ... prejudice ... creation of classes of citizen ... division ... hostility .... eventual civil war.....
Now then - what part of NO do you find hard to understand? You want it closed? Put it to a vote of the people...................... same as every other handover without proper reason.... stuff the whinging fringe dwellers who want everything for nothing and refuse to participate .... if you don't want to be part of modern society you have no ri8ght to expect that society to hand stuff over to you on demand. One day the people will take it all back... tear open their access to the seafront where that has been closed off... rip back their right to full and free use of national parks... a party with the balls to come that one will romp in .... only idiots support the true Nazis while trying to call anyone who opposes them vile names.... you'll end up staked to the ground under a drop bear habitat .... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 1st, 2024 at 8:26pm Quote:
Ask the 140,000 people who used to climb it every year. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 1st, 2024 at 8:41pm
I[quote]t's better than 50 million people starving to death because a bunch of communist morons think they can do a better job at feeding them than they can at feeding themselves.[quote]
Classic diversion from fraudiver. Your low IQ/fraudulence/blind ideology on full display; China was the poorest nation on the planet BEFORE the CCP took over. Now its the largest economy in the world (gdp in PPP terms). Graps comment was at least relevant, even if he wrongly blamed "incompetent government" for the closure of Mt Warning. Government's react to the loudest voices, the 50%+1 is hard to identify sometimes. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 1st, 2024 at 8:44pm thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 1st, 2024 at 8:41pm:
My apologies little pink. What were you trying to change the subject to? It's a bit hard to make sense of your gibberish. Is it something to do with abandoning democracy and human rights and a adopting a system that sounds like a polished turd version of the CCP, without the history and reality of 50 million dead Chinese peasants? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Feb 1st, 2024 at 8:47pm freediver wrote on Feb 1st, 2024 at 8:26pm:
So they just 'climb it' and that's all? What do they put back into the Mountain as if to honour its existence for being there for them in the first place? Knowing Australian Tourism, it would be SFA. All take and no give it seems. Just another exploitable commodity for bored White people who can only come up with 'climbing it'. ::) |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 1st, 2024 at 8:48pm
I always like to return some nitrogen.
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Setanta on Feb 1st, 2024 at 8:55pm Jasin wrote on Feb 1st, 2024 at 6:55pm:
You do know the farmers that took over and started the wipe out of the darkies in Europe built the megaliths. The Celts came later, much later, around 500 bc. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Feb 1st, 2024 at 8:57pm
Which is why you get nothing much in return now.
Security at Mt Warning? Maybe to protect those Aboriginal artworks on rock faces from vandalism? Let alone to keep the vandals out. It's obvious everything has broken down at Mt Warning because 140,000 people just climb it and do SFA about protecting it and proving they are worthy to 'share' in it. Using Politics, Laws, Legalities and 'paperwork' in general doesn't earn the right to experience Mt Warning. Nothing but offerings of toilet paper to be left scattered around with white scat. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Setanta on Feb 1st, 2024 at 9:00pm Jasin wrote on Feb 1st, 2024 at 8:57pm:
The security is to protect the people that smash windows, slash tyres, vandalise vehicles and threaten to spear people. Apparently the best way to do that is to pay $7,000@week to keep the perps from being sent to gaol, where they should be. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Feb 1st, 2024 at 9:10pm
bump
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Feb 1st, 2024 at 9:11pm Setanta wrote on Feb 1st, 2024 at 9:00pm:
I'm sure the Primitives who still adhere to the Druid past would do the same at Stonehenge if it was treated like a Dirt Bike, Mountain Bike track as well, let alone 'vandalised' by foreigners. ...maybe if they had a bit more money, they could bring in a Tank to blow those 'intruders' cars away, eh? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Setanta on Feb 1st, 2024 at 9:13pm Jasin wrote on Feb 1st, 2024 at 9:11pm:
But it's not and neither is Mt Warning. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Feb 1st, 2024 at 9:17pm
Bull !
There's a reason why, like many other 'sacred' places around this country - why the Boongs are upset. Many such sites get vandalised and 'sportingly' exploited. Lets not forget that ugly scar walking track up Uluru, the turd pits left by climbers, the rubbish and the cost of rescues of idiots. I'm sure Mt Warning has copped all of these by Whities who just want to take and not give. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 1st, 2024 at 9:26pm
Fraudiver writes:
Quote:
Accepted, provided you don't revert to your low IQ/ fraudulent/blind "freeom" idoelogy mode..... let's read on.... Quote:
Apology withdrawn (geez...that was quick) - due to fraud, and/or crippled brain. The subject was WHY black culture (even allowing for disputes within that black culture) insists on closing Mt Warning; you diverted to blind ideology about communism in China. Quote:
Your blind "freedom" ideology - like Grapps - cripples your comprehension. Sad but true. His statement: "Violation by stealth of basic human right to equal treatment...." says it all; "basic human rights to equal treatment" (sic) are in the eye of the beholder, not some illusional 'natural law' supposedly agreed on by self-interested "free" individuals. Quote:
It's certainly about understanding reality as a foundation for good law, and resolving disputes - both between individuals and nations - for the wellbeing of all. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Feb 1st, 2024 at 9:35pm
Case of two wrongs not making a right?
Especially when Whitey only offers politics and legalities to the table in an effort to win it over. Aborigine frustration - slashing tyres and vandalism of cars. A reflection of how Whiteys have treated the Mountain? Aborigines more in tune with the needs of the Mountain more than Political and Tourism Whiteys? We can see why things have turned out the way they have. Maybe Tolkien's Whitey 'Elves' can only understand and thus be allowed into Mt Warning? ;D |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 1st, 2024 at 10:00pm Jasin wrote on Feb 1st, 2024 at 8:57pm:
They pay their F taxes and such to the very governments that close these thing in their faces... get a life! 'keep the vandals out' - those pricks breaking cars and such down in the car park? I say shoot them on sight with a White Man's spear. What's this 'security' doing there? Rousting people and bashing them up if they refuse to not use a national park? There is no need to use "Politics, Laws, Legalities and 'paperwork' in general " to use a national park... ESPECIALLY when those who are craftily trying to close it to all others do not wish to abide by any of those unless it suits them. Take Back Our National Parks!! |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Feb 1st, 2024 at 10:02pm
Take back 'your' Australia too I suppose?
;D How's it feel to be 'invaded' by Aborigines? ;D |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 1st, 2024 at 10:03pm
Must have been drop bears, eh?
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 1st, 2024 at 10:07pm |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 1st, 2024 at 10:10pm
https://youtu.be/Yoy0ntdnl-s
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Baronvonrort on Feb 1st, 2024 at 10:20pm Setanta wrote on Feb 1st, 2024 at 9:00pm:
Why are taxpayers paying $1000 a day to guard a mountain? If people damage vehicles or threaten to spear people they should be charged. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 1st, 2024 at 10:22pm Jasin wrote on Feb 1st, 2024 at 10:02pm:
Good. Brings the baddies out into the open.... easier to gather them up that way and sweep them into Aborassic Park .... We WILL take back our Australia from the vested interest trying to grab control of it.... "... the disposal facilities were running day and night, Australia - we were that close to going out...... but there was one man... he taught us to stand together... to fight back against the party machines...... his name was Grappler d'Australia .... your son Australia..... and he gave me a message to pass on to you... he said:- "Tell her she must be stronger than she ever knew herself to be... the Future depends on it." |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 6:04am Setanta wrote on Feb 1st, 2024 at 9:13pm:
but it IS being used to dump rubbish and as a toilet |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 7:02am thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 1st, 2024 at 9:26pm:
Apology withdrawn (geez...that was quick) - due to fraud, and/or crippled brain. The subject was WHY black culture (even allowing for disputes within that black culture) insists on closing Mt Warning; you diverted to blind ideology about communism in China. Quote:
Your blind "freedom" ideology - like Grapps - cripples your comprehension. Sad but true. His statement: "Violation by stealth of basic human right to equal treatment...." says it all; "basic human rights to equal treatment" (sic) are in the eye of the beholder, not some illusional 'natural law' supposedly agreed on by self-interested "free" individuals. Quote:
It's certainly about understanding reality as a foundation for good law, and resolving disputes - both between individuals and nations - for the wellbeing of all. [/quote] Black culture does not insist on closing the mountain. A secretive committee appointed by the government does. John Smith wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 6:04am:
Got any photos? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 7:49am freediver wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 7:02am:
Your blind "freedom" ideology - like Grapps - cripples your comprehension. Sad but true. His statement: "Violation by stealth of basic human right to equal treatment...." says it all; "basic human rights to equal treatment" (sic) are in the eye of the beholder, not some illusional 'natural law' supposedly agreed on by self-interested "free" individuals. Quote:
It's certainly about understanding reality as a foundation for good law, and resolving disputes - both between individuals and nations - for the wellbeing of all. [/quote] Black culture does not insist on closing the mountain. A secretive committee appointed by the government does. John Smith wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 6:04am:
Got any photos?[/quote] grow a brain |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 7:50am John Smith wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 7:49am:
It's certainly about understanding reality as a foundation for good law, and resolving disputes - both between individuals and nations - for the wellbeing of all. [/quote] Black culture does not insist on closing the mountain. A secretive committee appointed by the government does. John Smith wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 6:04am:
Got any photos?[/quote] grow a brain [/quote] Any evidence at all, or was it just another made up excuse for banning people from a national park? The sort of thing that only people like you would fall for. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 7:52am freediver wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 7:50am:
Black culture does not insist on closing the mountain. A secretive committee appointed by the government does. John Smith wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 6:04am:
Got any photos?[/quote] grow a brain [/quote] Any evidence at all, or was it just another made up excuse for banning people from a national park? The sort of thing that only people like you would fall for.[/quote] Unlike you I've actually been up the mountain and seen it. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 7:53am John Smith wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 7:52am:
grow a brain [/quote] Any evidence at all, or was it just another made up excuse for banning people from a national park? The sort of thing that only people like you would fall for.[/quote] Unlike you I've actually been up the mountain and seen it.[/quote] I have climbed it also. Do you have any evidence John? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:01am freediver wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 7:53am:
Any evidence at all, or was it just another made up excuse for banning people from a national park? The sort of thing that only people like you would fall for.[/quote] Unlike you I've actually been up the mountain and seen it.[/quote] I have climbed it also. Do you have any evidence John?[/quote] So now Smith wants to ban others from doing what he has done.... they are clearly second class and he has special rights .... Did you have a leak on the way up or down, Smithy? Little resealable plastic bag? Didn't get caught short for a #2 at the top, did you? Many Abos do..... all that down the pub stuff the night before ... phew... so ...... errr .... who EXACTLY puts rubbish on Mt Warning? It's been closed off for a coupla years now.... and the track is too dangerous for government revenuers to get up and clean it all up..... are your pet Abos doing that, d'ya think? Where IS all this rubbish and toileting? Same as Ayers Rock - where do your pet Abos have a leak of a bog while spending a whole day climbing Our Rock? Just holding it in despite the exertion? I'm trying to drink my morning coffee here with guests sleeping in the lounge/kitchen area and my coffee is all wrong... Or maybe they wanted to close it so people couldn't see what they've done to it.... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 11:06am
freediver writes:
Quote:
I replied: "The subject was WHY black culture (even allowing for disputes within that black culture) insists on closing Mt Warning; you diverted to blind ideology about communism in China." FD wrote: Quote:
to which i replied: "Your blind "freedom" ideology - like Grapps - cripples your comprehension. Sad but true. Grapps' statement: "Violation by stealth of basic human right to equal treatment...." says it all; "basic human rights to equal treatment" (sic) are in the eye of the beholder, not some illusional 'natural law' supposedly agreed on by self-interested "free" individuals. But the the issue is certainly about understanding reality as a foundation for good law, and resolving disputes - both between individuals and nations - for the wellbeing of all". To which FD replied: Quote:
Is this FD's fraud mode (or the result of simple confusion about "rights" - a la Grapps)? I addressed FD's claims re "communism" - and "gibberish"; which he completely ignored, settling on the above lame comment. Note: the "secretive committee appointed by the government" is composed of blacks who want to close the mountain. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 11:49am Quote:
Are you making this up? |
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Title: Re: Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 12:03pm
FD ironically speaks about "making things up:
(google) "Last October, Mt Warning was closed permanently to everyone except Aboriginal people by the NSW Department of Planning and Environment's National Parks and Wildlife Services (NPWS) after it declared the mountain to be 'a place of sacred ceremonies linked to traditional law and custom,' particular to the Bundjalung ...3 July 2023 Guess WHY the dept. made that declaration....regardless of whether a "secretive committee" was involved or not). See where your illusions re "rights" lead you? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 12:11pm thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 11:06am:
How do you know who is on the committee? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 12:31pm freediver wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 7:53am:
Any evidence at all, or was it just another made up excuse for banning people from a national park? The sort of thing that only people like you would fall for.[/quote] Unlike you I've actually been up the mountain and seen it.[/quote] I have climbed it also. Do you have any evidence John?[/quote] Evidence that I climbed it? Do you? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 12:37pm
Nice dodge John. Very clever, by your standards.
John Smith wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 6:04am:
Do you have any evidence? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 12:41pm
FD asks
Quote:
Are you dementing? I already noted it doesn't matter who is on your posited "secretive committee". The issue is WHY the relevant govt. dept. closed the park, as examined in my reply. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 12:46pm freediver wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 12:11pm:
Were you lying TGD? Like a good little pink? Quote:
Are you trying to mock Chinese people, or is this just how you always talk? Quote:
Is this an admission of guilt, or an excuse for lying? Quote:
Because it does not matter who advised them to close it? Are you suggesting the WCG are just a front for the government's agenda? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 1:20pm freediver wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 12:37pm:
You're not getting my family pics if thats what you're after fd. To many doxers on your sites |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 1:26pm John Smith wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 1:20pm:
Did you take photos of your kids going to the toilet on Mt Warning? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Gnads on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 6:27pm thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 1st, 2024 at 2:49pm:
There are none it's just white blackfellas making a noise & making demnds based on culture that they know SFA about... they make it up to get what they want ... & the woke wankers swallow it hook, line & sinker. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Gnads on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 6:31pm Jasin wrote on Feb 1st, 2024 at 6:55pm:
FFS that's not what happens or has happened there. You clearly know everything about phukk all. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Gnads on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 6:33pm Jasin wrote on Feb 1st, 2024 at 8:57pm:
What art work? Want to extrapolate? or is that just another bs assumption from you? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Gnads on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 6:36pm John Smith wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 6:04am:
When did traditional people have toilets? And you know that how? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Gnads on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 6:37pm John Smith wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 7:49am:
It's certainly about understanding reality as a foundation for good law, and resolving disputes - both between individuals and nations - for the wellbeing of all. [/quote] Black culture does not insist on closing the mountain. A secretive committee appointed by the government does. John Smith wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 6:04am:
Got any photos?[/quote] grow a brain [/quote] Yeah you should. You know FA. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Gnads on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 6:39pm John Smith wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 7:52am:
grow a brain [/quote] Any evidence at all, or was it just another made up excuse for banning people from a national park? The sort of thing that only people like you would fall for.[/quote] Unlike you I've actually been up the mountain and seen it.[/quote] So did you have to take a piss or a dump? You were speaking about that from personal experience ey? ;D |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:05pm Gnads wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 6:36pm:
Traditional people aren't banned dumbarse ::) |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:06pm freediver wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 1:26pm:
No, my names not fd. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:09pm Gnads wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 6:39pm:
Any evidence at all, or was it just another made up excuse for banning people from a national park? The sort of thing that only people like you would fall for.[/quote] Unlike you I've actually been up the mountain and seen it.[/quote] So did you have to take a piss or a dump? You were speaking about that from personal experience ey? ;D[/quote] No, I was raised better than you were. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:09pm
How many paper turds have you left on Mt Warning FD?
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:13pm John Smith wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:06pm:
Were you lying again John? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:13pm John Smith wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:05pm:
I'm a traditional person... so is Gnads ... so is freediver ... so is everyone in Australia ... we all hold to our traditions... the AUSTRALIANS left among us hold to the tradition of a fair go for everyone, which is why we voted to give the women, the Abos and the WOPs the vote.... even those who traditionally offer a fair go can make mistakes...... But... the fact remains that people are traditional by nature.... so I say again, Pharoah... Let My People Climb!! |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:16pm freediver wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:13pm:
No, its true, my name is really not fd. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:17pm John Smith wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:05pm:
John what do you mean by "traditional people"? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:17pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:13pm:
The only traditions you and gonads have are those off bigots |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:18pm John Smith wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 6:04am:
Is this another one of your lies John? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:20pm freediver wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:18pm:
You need to do better than that if you ever hope to have any credibility fd. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:22pm John Smith wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:20pm:
Why do you tell so many lies John? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:24pm freediver wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:22pm:
Prove the lie or admit you're a fraud. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:47pm
The only way to settle this is with Guns.
Might is right. Simple as that. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 9:13pm John Smith wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:17pm:
Well - we're not the bigots trying to keep people from enjoying our natural scenery from our national parks.... that means we are not bigoted at all since we are all demanding fair and equal treatment..... on the other hand - a 'tradition' going back a few years is not sufficient reason for bigotry against all others. " bigot /ˈbɪɡət/ noun noun: bigot; plural noun: bigots a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group." Clearly your pet Abos are the bigots here, John-Boy .... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 9:00am John Smith wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 8:24pm:
You cannot produce a single piece of evidence to back up your claim John. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 10:20am freediver wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 9:00am:
you provide evidence of what you saw when you climbed it ya dumbarse. Does that mean you lied? You get dumber by the post |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 10:49am John Smith wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 10:20am:
It is your claim John. It is up to you to back it up. All I claimed was that I had climbed it. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 12:17pm freediver wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 10:49am:
I can tell you what I saw without having to back it up dumbarse. That's how conversations work. You can choose to believe it or you can shove your head up your arse and not believe it. Thats up to you. What you can't do is claim I'm lying, not without proof that I am lying. Were you always this dumb? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 12:18pm freediver wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 10:49am:
back it up or you're lying :D :D |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 12:23pm
That reminds me, here is another one of your habitual lies:
John Smith wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 7:52am:
Do you realise you are lying when you make these things up, or is it too complicated for you to figure out? Quote:
But you haven't told us what you saw John. You just keep making up lies then trying to change the subject. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 12:25pm
Fraudiver writes
Quote:
You claimed a "secrete committee" in the govt. closed Mt. Warning. You didn't say whether the committee was composed of whites or blacks (or both). But my link showed black cultural beliefs of a particular group of blacks - disputed by other blacks - were the original impetus for the closure. So the composition/existance of a government "committee" is irrelevant, in considering WHY the park was closed. Quote:
Addressed above; government (as opposed to a "secrete committee") was advised by the bureaucracy following black activism re cultural beliefs (true or false, the beliefs were acted on by the government). I accept your concession. [/quote]Are you suggesting the WCG are just a front for the government's agenda?[/quote] No - the government's agenda was determinded by black activism. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 12:27pm Quote:
No I didn't. I said the government closed Mt Warning and invented this secret committee to take the blame. Quote:
Duh. If we knew who was on it, it wouldn't be a secret committee, would it? You on the other hand did tell us. Were you making that up? Quote:
This isn't China little pink. Blaming "the bureaucracy" doesn't cut it. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 12:36pm
Aboriginal significance
Wollumbin is a place of cultural and traditional significance to the Bundjalung people and contains sacred sites, where particular ceremonies and initiation rites are performed.[3] The summit area of the Mountain is a declared Aboriginal Place under the National Parks and Wildlife Act.[9] While now spelt Wollumbin, the Aboriginal word had numerous alternative spellings which are recorded in the historic record including; Walumban,[10] Walumbin,[11] and Wooloombin,[12] all referring to the same place. In 1873 reference can be found to the Mountain being referred to by Aboriginal people as "Wollumbin", signifying "big fellow mountain".[13] The Aboriginal significance of the area is contextual and dependant on direction of observance, gender, and status of whoever is telling the story.[14] Several different stories exist about Wollumbin including reference to the Mountain as the Warrior Chief,[15] a special place of significance for brush turkey,[16] and the cloud catcher.[17] Many more stories exist that are not in the public record. Small cloud over the 'cloud catcher' on a clear day. Small cloud over the 'cloud catcher', photographed from an aeroplane. The name Wollumbin refers to the whole of the central vent and its surrounding ring dykes.[18] The Bundjalung people observe cultural and traditional restrictions forbidding the uninitiated from climbing the mountain, and, as such, ask that others also do not attempt to climb the mountain.[19] The government National Parks and Wildlife Service advertise this request and do not encourage climbers to hike the Mt. Warning/Wollumbin Trail up the mountain, but it is not forbidden by park regulations.[20] Name confusion In 2005 the name "Mount Wollumbin" was removed from a peak nearby to Mount Warning by the Geographical Names Board. This mountain is also referred to as Mount Ivy and Mount Dum Dum and was believed to be named Mount Wollumbin in error.[21] In 2006 the Geographical Names Board assigned dual naming to Mount Warning, to also be known by its indigenous name of Wollumbin. The name Wollumbin refers the whole of the central vent and its surrounding ring dykes.[22] |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 12:38pm
So FD makes up some secret committee, then argues that he can't prove it exists because it's secret ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 12:40pm John Smith wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 12:38pm:
Well he's doing a hell of a lot better than your little pink lies Mimo Meatballs. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 12:41pm freediver wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 12:23pm:
looking stupid is your forte isn't it? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 12:57pm
FD writes:
Quote:
Ok, clarification accepted. So let's see if we can resolve the issue of WHY the government closed Mt Warning.... Quote:
Er....you are the one claiming the government invented a secret committee...how do you know that? Was the secret exposed? (You just fell into a hole you yourself dug). Quote:
You lie - I didn't tell you the composition of your posited "secret committee" , I asked you to tell us whether its members were black, white or both" ...... Quote:
It's not a matter of "blaming" the bureaucracy - or a "secret committee" - it's a matter of understanding why the bureacracy acted as it did (to close the park). |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 1:10pm John Smith wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 12:38pm:
Quote:
The existence of the committee is public knowledge, but that's about it. Why did you lie about who was on the committee? Is it just an instinct for you? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 8:31pm
"
It's not a matter of "blaming" the bureaucracy - or a "secret committee" - it's a matter of understanding why the bureaucracy acted as it did (to close the park). " You need to ask? Because they are petty little backyard fascists who imagine that they have some inherited right to dictate to the people who pay them without any liability, culpability for wrongdoing, or reasonable oversight. That, my son, is precisely why we need to overthrow them and their type of rule... a rule they do not possess in reality but which they have arrogated unto themselves without our permission ............ A neck-tie party is an ugly thing! And it is time we had one!! |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 8:35pm
No. Because the Aborigines and International Community are trying to squeeze the puss out of a pimple. The squeeze is on to see which little white blighter in Australia will squeal the most and spill the blood first via 'violence' against Aborigines and lay claim to be the 'real' Australian here.
"Push the little daisies and make them come up." Ween. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 4th, 2024 at 12:03am
Pus, not puss - one does not squeeze pussy....
This whole thing, by government and their protected species, is like children ... they are seeing how far they can go before they are pulled into line. That is why I always advocate that they be pulled into line the moment they step out of line... You want to climb our Mountain or our Rock? Take a ticket, pay your fee and wait for the open spot with a guide, Mr Aborigine... we can't have people just wandering up there when they feel like it and placing themselves in danger and leaving rubbish and pissing everywhere .... if you feel you have any genuine reason for a special ceremony - prove it - and then apply for permission, which may or may not be forthcoming depending on all contingencies. Unlike the twerps trying to shut these things down for the majority - we are a very accommodating lot and will do our best to fit any special requirements in.... but we cannot permit closure on any grounds but safety - and that means closure to everyone for the very same reason. The spirits and the ambos and all such will be very upset if anyone is injured while undertaking a climb on that unrepaired track... and if the ambos and rescue people are not permitted to do their job without hindrance when some Kaffer is injured etc, they will most likely put a ban on rescues, and if drones spot people leaving rubbish - prosecutions will follow. Mt Warning Rules - Is No Track Closure/Disrepair - Is No Problem! |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 4th, 2024 at 12:05am
I hope that's not an Aboriginal climber...
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 4th, 2024 at 12:07am
"You are not allowed to change this message "
I hope that's not an Abo falling off the Mountain... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 4th, 2024 at 10:51am
Fraudiver - confirming his peerless fraudulence - asks:
Quote:
I didn't lie about who was on the committee, I asked who was on your posited "secret committee". (ie, blacks, whites or both). Fraudiver is particularly dangerous to community wellbeing, because he is a low IQ individual as well as ideologically blind. Deplorable. Or if he isn't a low IQ individual (possible) , he is an expert in fraudulently changing one question concerning who was on his - posited - "committee" (whose existence was questioned by me), into another question, ie "why did you lie about who was on the committee". Deplorable. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 4th, 2024 at 11:11am
Grappler writes:
Quote:
Oh dear; whereas FD is a peerless fraud (as I proved in my previous post), grapps is a hopeless anti-government ideologue. The question remains: WHY did the government "imagine that they have some inherited right" (to close the park)? The govt - ie politicians of the governing party - obviously think they are acting for the majority, or for the ruling party's ideology. Quote:
The problem is rule by 50%+1*** based on self-interest, leading to hyper partisanship, and social discontent among minority groups. ***Sometimes literally 50%+1: the Bush-Gore contest a few years ago was so close the SCOTUS had to decide the outcome. Quote:
Hanging the pollies won't solve the problem of conflicting self-interest among/within the electorate. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 4th, 2024 at 11:13am
Thank you,
Realityland... The Kaffer are not going to close our national parks off.... eat them apples... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 4th, 2024 at 11:36am
Grapps writes:
Quote:
So....is my assertion, namely "grapps is a hopeless anti-government ideologue", an accusation and an abuse? Well I admit my assertion is open to debate, but I did back it with reasoned argument (which you at least acknowledged). And beyond "abuse", remains the original question. Quote:
You mean "Realityland" where 'survival of the fittest' rules? Quote:
So we have to educate our pollies about cultural and economic obsolescence... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 4th, 2024 at 12:31pm
Indeed it is - one does not need to be an ideologue to despise one's form of government and governance and its often dire results.
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Title: Re: Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 4th, 2024 at 12:51pm
Grappler writes:
"one does not need to be an ideologue to despise one's form of government and governance and its often dire results." You have hung yourself there with the words "and governance". You can despise a form of government without being an ideolgue, but you cannot despise governance itself. Governance is the necesary coindition for instituting order among self-interested individuals |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 4th, 2024 at 1:08pm
Note: now we have fraudiver pulling out all the stops: changing thread titles, reducing titles to "Re", preventing direct quotes, and blocking changes to posts.
What a wonderful concept of "freedom" fraudiver has. :-( |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by John Smith on Feb 4th, 2024 at 1:28pm thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 4th, 2024 at 1:08pm:
Thats what he always does. FD doesn't debate anything. Just wait till he pulls one of your quotes out of context, and starts another thread with it pretending you said something else. :D :D :D :D |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 4th, 2024 at 2:43pm thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 4th, 2024 at 10:51am:
Why are you lying about whether you lied about who was on the committee? Is this just what little pinks do? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 4th, 2024 at 4:03pm
Fraudiver - a troll AND a fraud; John Smith certainly has you sorted.
A troll because you just repeat the same fraudulent question when it has already been answered. Your contuing fraudulence on ozpolitic at least exposes the delusional ideology responsible for the world's ills. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 4th, 2024 at 4:22pm "Lying about lying" .....ROTFL - I have to admit that's a clever assertion, to avoid replying to the answer. Like Frank, you would gain a 'zero' from a jury of debating experts. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 4th, 2024 at 4:29pm thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 4th, 2024 at 4:03pm:
First you tried to say it doesn't matter whether you were telling the truth. Then you answered with another lie: thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 4th, 2024 at 10:51am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 2nd, 2024 at 11:06am:
Are you now trying to claim this is not a lie? |
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Title: Re: Re: Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 4th, 2024 at 11:38pm thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 4th, 2024 at 12:51pm:
OH??? And what about 'instituting order' among non-self-interested individuals? Is this like... err.. one massive outdoor prison fits all... or is it.... like... selective according to your ideology? Only 'self-interested individuals' need apply for 'governance' = sheep taming? Word for today:- "coindition" (n) The position of stating a requirement for your position.... example:-What is my coindition - how much coin is in it for me? the great divide concise dictionary, 2024 edition. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 5th, 2024 at 8:36am
Meanwhile, ABC news refuses point blank to cover this in any way. I emailed them to ask why they didn't run an article on the recent protest. They did not respond.
‘We’re looking into it’- NSW Government to investigate mountain climbing ban https://www.2gb.com/were-looking-into-it-nsw-government-to-investigate-mountain-climbing-ban/?fbclid=IwAR36un7ZjF--CWWdS0YhKlxV_C-gBq8K83MD_EwY3N81YGIugQO200MXmCc Environment and Water Minister Tanya Plibersek was questioned about the controversial climbing ban affecting locals and tourists visiting Mount Warning, as the debate over the popular location and its Indigenous significance intensifies. Some quotes from Minister "Handled really poorly". "Conflicting views". "Deal with issues as quickly as possible". "Next couple months talking to a much broader range of people". "It's not been handled well." "My commitment is I will talk to everybody who has a view". |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Feb 5th, 2024 at 9:17am
Isn't there a warning at the mountain?
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Gnads on Feb 5th, 2024 at 10:22am Jasin wrote on Feb 3rd, 2024 at 8:35pm:
Only one "s" in pus DH. Puss is the cat. ;) ;D |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Feb 5th, 2024 at 10:56am
You're both right. I admit.
It's Pus not Puss (unless you're from NZ) My bad. :-[ |
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Title: Re: Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 5th, 2024 at 10:59am wrote on : Eat brid and hem .... pass the boiled iggs .... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 5th, 2024 at 11:00am Gnads wrote on Feb 5th, 2024 at 10:22am:
There's a whole in that track there, Dear Lisa, Dear Lisa. Then FIX it, dear Henry Then buggerin' fix it!! |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 5th, 2024 at 11:01am
Bloody strand... quotes the wrong thing every time...
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 5th, 2024 at 11:01am
.
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 5th, 2024 at 11:05am
Grapps continues to debate fearlessly - but hopelessly....eg :
GreatDivide: You have hung yourself there with the words "and governance". You can despise a form of government without being an ideologue, but you cannot despise governance itself. Governance is the necesary condition for instituting order among self-interested individuals Grapps: Quote:
Non-self-interested individuals are a rarity; if they were the norm, government would automatically shrink to a fraction of its size, as all the n-s-i individuals co-operate to institute sustainable production for the benefit of all, eradicating war, poverty, and crime. Graps: Quote:
No, and addressed above; it's called the rule of law. Graps Quote:
No; "all need to submit to rule of law, for all to be free": Cicero. Graps: Quote:
No, it's adjudicating the competitive instincts of self-interested individuals. Quote:
Thanks to FD - who has proved himself to be a self-interested censor-in-chief who is hindering the exchange of ideas via his self-interested blocking of formats and corrections - for making my case about self-interested individuals for me. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 5th, 2024 at 11:06am
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/heckles-and-boos-for-new-zealand-government-at-waitangi/ar-BB1hLIAY?cvid=b25aed02e20c4bac9699fe9993f211f6&ocid=winp2fptaskbarhover&ei=8&sc=shoreline
And another country slides to civil war...... "There's a HOLE in that track there, Dear Lisa, Dear Lisa... A hole in that track there, Dear Lisa a Hole! Then FIX it, Dear Minnsie, Dear Ho Chi, Dear Minnsie The FIX Dear Ho Chi Just fix it, you dork!! But there's a hole in that track there, Dear Lisa, dear Lisa........" |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 5th, 2024 at 11:21am
Trust a RW government to increase tensions with the natives' culture.
The new RW governement should shut up and make sure the natives have above-poverty jobs, regardless of current levels of educational attainment. (The previous LW government at least maintained the peace, with its pandering to native culture). |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 5th, 2024 at 11:27am thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 5th, 2024 at 11:21am:
Are you talking about the NSW state government? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 5th, 2024 at 11:45am
All 'governments' are essentially right wing in this day and age.... they firmly believe in their own self-righteousness and absolute Divine Right to dictate to those peasants out there - and who are we wee peasants to say no, eh? No personal sovereignty ...
The Divine Right Of Elected and Appointed Government - the next genuine Civil War demanded in order to set the human race on the correct path of genuine equality for all... (Can ye hear the pipes calling?) .... Mt Warning ETC!! Closed off by Appointed Government Decree... by the Gauleiters.... the ones who hang kids for cowardice then expect decent treatment ...somehow feel Entitled™ to a fat life and a fat retirement by dumping on the peasants ....... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 5th, 2024 at 12:41pm
Graps writes:
Quote:
That's an interesting tack.....though my point remains: the NZ left maintained better relations with the Maoris than the new NZ right government, as is made clear in your linked article. But your link to the NZ article was a diversion from (or simply ignored) my previous reply (...because your neurons shut down when confronted with the reality and consequences of self-interested individuals' behaviour.) Quote:
More accurately, they (sic) believe (unlike you) in the rule of law, and attempt to govern successfully under that regime. The problem is their erroneous world view which results in law which entrenches poverty and war. Quote:
Personal sovereignty is fine, provided everyone has a home and an above-poverty job, to avoid chaos and criminality. Quote:
You mean houses and jobs for all? Quote:
Like I said, ensure everyone has a house and a job, then watch the commitment to "culture" fade away. Half of the blacks apparently want the park opened anyway. Quote:
You are still blaming the pollies for a sick economic system. The real villains are the private financiers who deny governments the right to issue free public sector money. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 5th, 2024 at 1:00pm
Ah - that got that persona out....
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 5th, 2024 at 1:04pm
The 'Maori' for want of a better term these days - got on better with the 'left' because the left had them bribed with bullshit the same as Abos here...
Actually they have yet to articulate what it is they feel they are about to 'lose' from any mooted changes there... bit like the voice - standing to lose nothing but wanting to play up anyway... it's a sort of First Nations Sport thing, you know. All bullshit blown up in the media.... and only a fool would swallow it... you've caught yourself again, dividie.... I know - let's try a hand of transgender discussion .... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 5th, 2024 at 1:15pm
"The right-leaning coalition government plans to scrap Maori-only public services and, most controversially, redefine how the Treaty of Waitangi impacts law."
Well, well, well - bringing everyone under the umbrella of equal treatment.... terrible thing to do..... and 'redefine' the Treaty of Waitangi... hang on - that wouldn't be because it has steadily been eroded and altered cunningly bit by bit ... Lawfare you understand - to suit a minority, would it... with added 'rights' and 'privileges' extended and extended following the introduction into NZ Parliament of a forged document pretending to be a copy of the treaty, that apparently nobody looked at properly?? The more correct term would be 're-affirm' (the Treaty of Waitangi) ... you know - restore it to its original meaning and put all the other stuff back into the 'to be negotiated in good faith' basket............. just like the current phase in our Civil War of Aboriginal Lawfare all over day and night? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 5th, 2024 at 1:25pm
graps writes:
Quote:
So far so good (I'm feeling generous...) Quote:
The new NZ govt wants to back-pedal on recognition of Maori culture, obviously not the way to "win friends and influence people" - in this case, the Maori.... Quote:
Black culture is certainly esteemed by the media and the left; my view is they are barking up the wrong tree (as you should know by now....economics, not culture, is the real issue to be fixed..) Quote:
On the contrary; I've never argued for the preservation of h-g cultures. Quote:
Pass. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Gnads on Feb 6th, 2024 at 11:09am Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 5th, 2024 at 1:15pm:
Talking to a retired ex-policeman who I occasionally have a beer with today who has just returned form a cruise tour of NZ. Said NZ is what Australia would have become if the Yes vote had got up. Everything Maori Maori Maori -all signage including roads - english in very small text. They had a tour guide who was a YANK married to a Maori and he never shut up about Maoris being dispossessed and that was now being rectified blah blah blah ..... the whole group were pissed off with him .... one of the group, fed up, even said to him that he should black himself up & dress the part ... that went over with him like a lead balloon. ;D |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 6th, 2024 at 11:14am
NZ is far worse. Our referendum was for racist window dressing. Theirs has racism built into their democracy.
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Feb 6th, 2024 at 4:29pm
Maori's are allowed to do to White Kiwis.
What Boers weren't allowed to do to Black S.Africans. Only Whites are racist. The Media says so. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 7th, 2024 at 1:42pm
Love NZ - but now The Troubles .... and all over the government wanting to cancel the Maori anti-smoking program, couple of other race-specific health efforts that rely most on... (var-oom-ba ..... Personal Sovereignty Decision-Making By The Individual.....
'ard to get to the bottom of what is causing the complaints:- https://www.act.org.nz/defining-the-treaty-principles the principles sound all right... what IS the problem? The Maori claim this party is trying to get rid of Maori language - you mean remove silly road signs - Smith Street is now Rangi Street or something.... like WGAF .... we are now about to land at Okateimapakahana Airport... sorry - Wellington Airport.... (ooomba-chaka... oomba-chaka) |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 8th, 2024 at 12:19pm
Graps writes:
Quote:
And who are the individuals urging the government to reverse the alcohol restrictions recently imposed in the Alice, to good effect? |
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Title: Re: Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 8th, 2024 at 5:59pm wrote on : You linking that to the Maori stop smoking competition? Anyway - that NZ government has backed down, thus inviting more and more activism and even violence... if they were prepared to go to war over that - they are already there anyway. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 10th, 2024 at 12:32pm
graps writes:
Quote:
Yes. Some blacks - on health grounds - want to stop the grog in the Alice, while others - on 'human rights' grounds, supported by white grog-shop owners - on self-intereted finanicial grounds, dont. Quote:
well.....yes. But a better path would be for the government to concentrate on closing the economic gap, while side-stepping the more immovable cultural delusions. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 10th, 2024 at 12:35pm
Let the drink, drugs, smokes and crimes sort the Maori out... not to mention inter-breeding with Whites...
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 10th, 2024 at 12:38pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 10th, 2024 at 12:35pm:
So NO Blacks in Alice want to stop any grog stoppages? OK .... we believe you... I noticed you made this purely a 'black v white' issue - with Whartey cast as the Bad Guy In the Black Hat again... FFS, man - get a grip!! |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 10th, 2024 at 12:49pm
graps asks:
Quote:
?? some do, others don't...(whatever your double negative n means... There needs to be an intensive community wide education program (and restrictions on grog shops whose owners should get a useful job) re the egregious health effects of grog, to enable 'personal responsibility' to function properly.... |
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Title: Re: Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 10th, 2024 at 10:41pm wrote on : What double negative? So no Blacks want to stop/ any /grog stoppages..... Would you prefer that I use 'end' grog stoppages? Might sound awkward -but it's no 'double negative'.... you can stop grog stoppages by resuming them... simples............ So - do your Sacred Peoples up there all want to retain grog stoppages - or not? You made it a black and white thing - according to your comment the Blacks wanted to keep stoppages.. the white grog shop owners didn't... Are you kidding me? So no Blacks want to stop any grog stoppages? They want to keep them? That'll be the day a cold beer is hot .... if they wanted to stop grog - they could just stop drinking.... and stoning.... and smoking ... and criming... just like the Maori could to resolve their problems. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 11th, 2024 at 11:47am
graps writes:
Quote:
yes - 'end restrictions' is better. The point is: while SOME blacks want to end the restrictions (on alcohol) others do not, same for the white community who are equally divided on the issue. Quote:
You didn't read what I said: some (black or white) do, some don't; of course the (mostly) white grog shop owners are pushing their own self interest..... Quote:
To repeat: some do, some don't. Quote:
Neatly turning the argument into a 'personal responsibiliy' matter.... Well, no: the state-imposed restrictions - by-passing 'personal responsibility' - have reduced crime and drunkeness in the Alice. But guess what will happen if the restrictions are removed? |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 11th, 2024 at 11:50am
(quick googe)
"Official NT Police crime statistics show that since the introduction of the restrictions in Alice Springs: the number of alcohol-related Domestic Violence Assaults has fallen by 41% from an average of 115 per month to 68 per month (and all Domestic Assaults down 24%) 5 days ago" |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 11th, 2024 at 11:53am thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 11th, 2024 at 11:50am:
It is my understanding that the alcoholics jut go somewhere else. Their problems usually follow them. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 11th, 2024 at 8:01pm
But.... but... but... it's only the greedy white bottle shop owners who want the bans lifted...... all them Blackfullahs suffering The Thirst aren't wanting their access to grog back.... dividie says so and he KNOWS everyone will be much more free if they only give all their rights over to the government... that's working well for the Gazans and their being ruled by Hamas....
...but of course, in that case it's only an extension of the Law Of The Silverback - the asshole with the biggest gun... and where any woman who wants freeeeeedddoooom can be stoned for insulting the Qran and any bloke can be shot for wanting to insult Allah by not standing alongside the fearless Hamas Martyr Fighters... and those with the most guns control .... |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by I, Robot on Feb 11th, 2024 at 8:40pm
Bottle Shop opens in Alice Springs.
Sells alcohol to local aborigines. Aborigines become alcoholics and piss their money against the wall. Poor Abos with no money are addicted and rob Grog Shop of its alcohol. Grog Shop Owners in Alice whinge about alcohol-addicted Boongs stealing 'their' grog on the shelves. Two wrongs, not making a right. Should have banned those White and Yellow Grog Shop Owners from Socially Polluting the area. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by I, Robot on Feb 12th, 2024 at 2:09am
Monk typed
Should be in the American Politics board, not? Why are there so many off topic threads these days? No environmental threads in Environment but there is a Cats and Critters thread there! Should that thread not be in the Cats and Critters MRB? (and can that STUPID name, basically “Critters and Critters” because cats are critters be finally changed please? Critters and Gardens be nice!) When favoritism is shown to one member (and a useless jerk of a member at that) the rot soon spreads everywhere. Jaye is also useless as a Mod—hardly Mod of EE a month and he has THREE members permanently banned from EE! What a dictator. The idiot reckons I post lots of Off Topic stuff (which I deny) but Biden is certainly NOT an extreme politician! Can we get some sanity back please? Monk's Board contents: New Booby’s boring as batshit YouTubes now here New Wordle New The sun New LOL! New Jokes New Spirituality Freedom to be Off Topic! Freedomn to defame? New Looking for plum trees New Droppings by Shonk New Socks Quick Quizz - Dinosaur Bone (by Bias) New The problem? of nuclear waste New Is nuclear power green? New Droppings by Jaye New Sex Obsessed Page 1 Topics in Cats & Critters Board. Is Cats & Critters Board the MT WARNING of Ozpol Forum? Why not let Monk have his way and the Board's title changed to MONK'S PERSONAL BOARD? He's obviously sponging, scabbing, insinuating for it of late in recent posts. Hoping FD will grant him this wish like FD granted his other wishes (demands). What's the point of Boards having a 'Theme' title on this Forum, if the rules point out that Moderators can do as they please? >>as Peccary points out>> Do not use a member run board if you do not accept the standards applied by the moderator. While the rules outlined here apply to the entire forum, moderators of member run boards may go beyond them and be as strict, biased, vague, or whatever, as they want. Diversity of moderating style is encouraged rather than conformity to universal standards. If you have a problem with the moderation, please take it up with the moderator via PM or on their board. If you do not get a satisfactory resolution, cease using the board. Do not post complaints about moderation on the feedback board. This will result in your suspension from the feedback board and/or the member run board in question. So, here I am - probably going 'off Topic' with this post from the SACRED theme of this Topic? Ironic huh? Maybe one year, this problem will be solved, as will Mt Warning's. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Gnads on Feb 12th, 2024 at 6:45am thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 11th, 2024 at 11:50am:
And you believe those figures? When the restrictions were on over most of the communities in the Territory .... that was before the Labor Party won office & repealed the Intervention Legislation..... Aboriginals by the hundred from all over the Territory were coming into QLD & into places like Mt. Isa, Cloncurry and as far as Townsville and Cairns to get on the piss. They even used community vehicles/buses to get there.(taxpayer funded) Money for fuel and grog wasn't an issue for those poor disadvantaged, marginalised, poverty stricken Aboriginals. ::) Consequently the crime rates went up in those areas. So the problem associated with alcohol was just shifted elsewhere. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 12th, 2024 at 11:02am Gnads wrote on Feb 12th, 2024 at 6:45am:
No, those official stats relate the the situation now, in which some people are urging the restrictions which were introduced in the Alice last year be lifted, against the wishes of the police. Quote:
We are talking about less crime in the Alice, during the last 12 months of restrictions. You will have to place restrictions on grog everywhere if you want to fix its damage elsewhere. Education, assisting grog shop owners to move into useful employment, and reduction in welfare dependency will be necessary. Mt Warning's closure, consequent to black mythology (according to ONE group) are symptoms of lack of state intervention and education vis a vis the black community. |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by Grappler Truth Teller Feller on Feb 12th, 2024 at 11:55am It's a long way to go It's a long, long way to Alice Springs To the crime rates we all know.... Nah then - what's all this hijacking of strands and turning them into discussions of something else all the time? Are you on someone's payroll or something - or is it just your eyesight? Maybe running interference for the Treaty and Voice By Stealth being perpetrated behind the backs of the voting public? You ain't fooling nobody, and people are aware of what's going on .... People's Rights Forever:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faMZeh_vmVU |
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by freediver on Feb 12th, 2024 at 12:08pm
Grapps I am seeing a video of a band. Is that what you meant to post?
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Title: Re: Mt Warning Protest Jan 26, 2024 Post by thegreatdivide on Feb 12th, 2024 at 12:16pm Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Feb 12th, 2024 at 11:55am:
I'm chipping away at your delusional 'natural individual rights' ideology, of course. "People's Rights forever"..... should be "rights" (to be defined) of ALL people, forever. |
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