Just yesterday, a business I had to deal with was Code Online Down and all their systems were compromised by 'whatever'?

Thing is, this can happen to our Economy if it is fully DEPENDENT on Computer/Online Economics especially where MONEY is involved. There is not one 100% 'security' system out there, even for the CIA and the world's wealthiest - that is fullproof from compromise and failure.
The CIA have been compromised in the last year - twice.
Australia's National Security got taught a lesson by China a few years back and so on with Optus, now Telstra and many businesses around the country with such things as Ransomware and plain destructive viruses, etc.

Now they want to try and 'force' the Cashless Society upon Australia (the petrie dish) and charge people for using CASH.
If there is no 'physical' presence of Money, then it ceases to exist. Just being a digit on a printout, etc - just doesn't cut it for me. It's as if they've basically 'taken the money' from any or all possession from me.

It will fail eventually, the Cashless Society. Because after a time, people will have 'Cards' representing the levels of worth upon them as if Money in the physical form anyway.

Leaving your Wi-Fi on via Watch, Phone, etc - and someone nearby, sitting in a car or walking past, can tap into your details there and then. Account details and all. They will always find a way - technology always has its 'holes' to exploit.

As I've always said "It's cheaper to be mugged in an alleyway of $100 than it is to be mugged online of $10,000"

The Computer/Online system is good and needed. But we should never dismiss Cash as a contingency backup or we really will 'pay' as a nation and society.

Why Cashless?
Well over 2000 tests were done a decade ago involving volunteers (thousands) asked. Where half were given Cash and the other 'Tap & Go'. The difference of people spending was that 80% of the Tappers spent their amounts faster and maxed out. Those with Cash, were more fugal in their spendings.
...you could say, they want you to 'spend your money' and keep less for yourself. Basically that's why they want the Cashless Society 'totally'.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/nat-barr-exposes-a-major-problem-with-australia-s-transition-to-a-cashless-society/ar-AA1lprcG?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=ACTS&cvid=4deea358c8c9417bb28d1fbd77f11dce&ei=38

This really should be on a main board. It seems to be a typically short sighted economics driven idea with seemingly little ability to understand the horrendous possible outcomes of digital payment systems failure with no physical alternative. Unplanned accidental failures of a few days would be enough to start panic. Nefarious failures of longer periods would render the economy DEAD and trigger literal rioting. That's not an exaggeration IMHO.                                                                                                                                                                                                           People only need to think back to the toilet paper issue during the Pandemic. Now imagine no way to buy food, fuel or anything for even a few days, let alone a week or two!! Guaranteed rioting and looting, it's not even a question. Now imagine a bit further and scenario evaluate actually being at war and the cyber attacks that come in the future.There is not enough scenario driven analysis being done by the drivers of the "end all physical money" idea. To me it reeks of the same sort of low level, primary school depth analysis that went into predicting China would become a democratic "westernised" nation if we poured "western" money into it lol. Limit it, track it for sure; but never remove all forms of physical payment altogether. It's idiocy.                                        I'm aware of a temp war time money printing and distribution or food stamps scenario evaluation of digital payment systems loss. I just don't see Australia managing it and history suggests we still need physical money already embedded and valued. Even in a digitalised future there remains certain levels of physical requirements and a physical payment system backup has to be available. Aside from that; if you remove any and all physical payment options, you guarantee a rise in even harder to track and near impossible to tax; bartering and trading of services and goods.

One has only to look at the disastrous  power outages
caused by storms in Victoria from  Tuesday 13 February
and Thursday 22 February this year in order to see how
even a breakdown in one area of technology can cripple us
socially.

No perishable foods available; no ATMs functioning; libraries,
post offices, and banks closed; cafes and hotels closed; petrol
stations closed; no VoIP (home phone) access; no internet access;
no 4G phone access; no street or security lighting, unable to
call fire or ambulance etc.

We were in the dark—literally—for 3½ days.   Not good enough
in "the lucky country".      >:(

Data provided by banks indicate that the largest users of cash and those most focussed on it use are the over-70s with that rapidly shading down to zero among 20-somethings.

Cash Use and Attitudes in Australia

The 2022 Consumer Payments Survey reveals that the ongoing decline in cash use in Australia has accelerated since the COVID-19 pandemic. The share of in-person transactions made with cash halved, from 32 per cent to 16 per cent, over the three years to 2022.

The decline in cash use was particularly pronounced for smaller payments; cash is now used less than electronic methods for all transaction sizes. The demographic groups that traditionally used cash more frequently for payments – such as the elderly, those on lower incomes and those in regional areas – saw the largest declines in cash use.

Privacy and security concerns with electronic payment methods continued to be the main reason for needing cash, while barriers to using electronic payment methods have become less important since 2019.

https://www.rba.gov.au/publications/bulletin/2023/jun/cash-use-and-attitudes-in-australia.html

Why does there have to be just 'one' right answer?
Surely keeping the cash system ongoing, if there is an electronic system failure(s) as there has been and always will be, would be the best 'contingency' plan for back-up at least.
When there's a blackout, you reach for the candles at least. Torches are probably the first port of call, or a generator - but if its long lasting, you'll all reach for the candles.

The best way to ensure you'll always have cash when needed is to hoard it.

No Australian government would ever demonetise any note in the current banknote set.

Hope not, but Albanese might. He can do what he likes now. Joe Biden said he could.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2024 at 6:52pm:

The best way to ensure you'll always have cash when needed is to hoard it. No Australian government would ever demonetise any note in the current banknote set.

Although I wouldn't hoard $100 notes!

AusGeoff wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2024 at 3:14am:

One has only to look at the disastrous  power outages caused by storms in Victoria from  Tuesday 13 February and Thursday 22 February this year in order to see how even a breakdown in one area of technology can cripple us socially. No perishable foods available; no ATMs functioning; libraries, post offices, and banks closed; cafes and hotels closed; petrol stations closed; no VoIP (home phone) access; no internet access; no 4G phone access; no street or security lighting, unable to call fire or ambulance etc. We were in the dark—literally—for 3½ days.   Not good enough in "the lucky country".      >:(

Yes - it was frightening.
I thought I'd have no power or communications for 3 days
but luckily it was for only 7 hours.

Some people lost power for weeks.

Quote:

As I've always said "It's cheaper to be mugged in an alleyway of $100 than it is to be mugged online of $10,000"

Not many people get killed by junkies on the internet.

freediver wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2024 at 8:45pm:

Quote: As I've always said "It's cheaper to be mugged in an alleyway of $100 than it is to be mugged online of $10,000" Not many people get killed by junkies on the internet.

Then just hand over your $100 and give them a $10 tip for good luck. Still beats $10,000. A junkie just wants 'easy money' and not have to work hard for it.

...at least you get to see who robs you and there's always a rainy day later to follow them back to where they live.  ;)

Jasin wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2024 at 9:08pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 3rd, 2024 at 8:45pm: Quote: As I've always said "It's cheaper to be mugged in an alleyway of $100 than it is to be mugged online of $10,000" Not many people get killed by junkies on the internet. Then just hand over your $100 and give them a $10 tip for good luck. Still beats $10,000. A junkie just wants 'easy money' and not have to work hard for it. ...at least you get to see who robs you and there's always a rainy day later to follow them back to where they live.  ;)

For some vigilante justice?   :)

Vigilantes:


https://www.zougla.gr/Uploads/News/2018/10/26/jy09.jpg

Some local abos stole some of our dive gear from our cars, couldn't find our other valuables though. We knew where they lived and we turned up later with our tools of the trade (Spearguns and knives) and not only got our dive gear back, but a lot other other dive gear and well, in just 1 hour we cleaned them out good.  ;)
Even Bikers don't mess with Commercial Divers. In New Zealand, the Divers raided and burnt down a Biker Club House just for a graduation party.  :)

Being robbed online, well - you've been robbed by 'the machine' and that's that.

Jasin wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2024 at 9:27pm:

Some local abos stole some of our dive gear from our cars, couldn't find our other valuables though. We knew where they lived and we turned up later with our tools of the trade (Spearguns and knives) and not only got our dive gear back, but a lot other other dive gear and well, in just 1 hour we cleaned them out good.  ;) Even Bikers don't mess with Commercial Divers. In New Zealand, the Divers raided and burnt down a Biker Club House just for a graduation party.  :) Being robbed online, well - you've been robbed by 'the machine' and that's that.

https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/160/471/093/original/6e70adc64ac29372.png

Vigilante justice:      ;D


https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/160/469/728/playable/52ee0ae63900378a.mp4

A number of economists like and promote the idea of removing all physical (cash) payment options from economies. Yanis Varoufakis being just one of them for example; whom tried to bring it in in Greece but failed. I think it is yet another "economist" idea thought through with the depth of a child. Bartering and trading of goods and services would come back to an extent and be even more impossible to track and tax. There would be no "safety net" payment system to kick in on digital system failure. I understand wanting to solve the in reality very small "untaxed" cash economy some place far too great an emphasis on, but removing all physical payment options is idiocy IMHO.

Goose wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2024 at 11:16pm:

A number of economists like and promote the idea of removing all physical (cash) payment options from economies. Yanis Varoufakis being just one of them for example; whom tried to bring it in in Greece but failed. I think it is yet another "economist" idea thought through with the depth of a child. Bartering and trading of goods and services would ramp back up and be impossible to track and tax. There would be no "safety net" payment system to kick in on digital system failure. I understand wanting to solve the in reality very small "untaxed" cash economy some "think" exists but removing all physical payment options is idiocy IMHO.

People would use American dollars if our cash disappeared.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2024 at 11:24pm:

Goose wrote on Apr 3rd, 2024 at 11:16pm: A number of economists like and promote the idea of removing all physical (cash) payment options from economies. Yanis Varoufakis being just one of them for example; whom tried to bring it in in Greece but failed. I think it is yet another "economist" idea thought through with the depth of a child. Bartering and trading of goods and services would ramp back up and be impossible to track and tax. There would be no "safety net" payment system to kick in on digital system failure. I understand wanting to solve the in reality very small "untaxed" cash economy some "think" exists but removing all physical payment options is idiocy IMHO. People would use American dollars if our cash disappeared.

Yeah It would grow but take time and still be no real safety net if all the systems of business are unable to take any forms of physical payment when all physical payments get banned as part of the process.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2024 at 11:24pm:

Goose wrote on Apr 3rd, 2024 at 11:16pm: A number of economists like and promote the idea of removing all physical (cash) payment options from economies. Yanis Varoufakis being just one of them for example; whom tried to bring it in in Greece but failed. I think it is yet another "economist" idea thought through with the depth of a child. Bartering and trading of goods and services would ramp back up and be impossible to track and tax. There would be no "safety net" payment system to kick in on digital system failure. I understand wanting to solve the in reality very small "untaxed" cash economy some "think" exists but removing all physical payment options is idiocy IMHO. People would use American dollars if our cash disappeared.

If the Australian economy had not collapsed, how would large volumes of US cash enter the country such that ordinary Australians would have access to it?

Jasin wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2024 at 9:08pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 3rd, 2024 at 8:45pm: Quote: As I've always said "It's cheaper to be mugged in an alleyway of $100 than it is to be mugged online of $10,000" Not many people get killed by junkies on the internet. Then just hand over your $100 and give them a $10 tip for good luck. Still beats $10,000. A junkie just wants 'easy money' and not have to work hard for it. ...at least you get to see who robs you and there's always a rainy day later to follow them back to where they live.  ;)

Most online fraud charges are well under $100. They try to fly under the radar. As far as I know, people usually get their money back from the bank or someone else if it is fraud.

freediver wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 8:34am:

As far as I know, people usually get their money back from the bank or someone else if it is fraud.

In almost every case, banks in Australia will reimburse you for your loss, under one strict proviso - you have not given fraudsters your username and password/PIN.

Banks warn you that they will never ask you for your login details so, if you're asked, you're dealing with a scammer.

‘Massive queues’: Aussies flood banks in cash protest

"Aussies flocked to banks around the country on Tuesday to send a loud message about cash use.

Fed up Aussies flocked to banks and ATMs on Tuesday in a major protest against the country’s move towards a cashless society.

Hoards of people were seen lining up to withdraw cash on April 2 – a day dubbed online as “Draw Out Some Cash Day”.

The movement, led by the Cash is King Facebook group, aimed to show banks and retailers there is still a demand for cash amid warnings the country will be “functionally cashless” by 2025.

Social media posts show “massive queues” of people, both young and old, lining up at various banks around the country, with one woman sharing she waited for up to an hour to get her hands on bank notes.

“All banks I passed today had queues out the door,” one person wrote on Facebook alongside a picture of people lining up outside a Commonwealth Bank branch.


(I) withdrew $1000 dollars. The bank was packed!” another wrote.

“I went to Robina Centre (Gold Coast) and took $1000. I had to wait nearly one hour,” said another.

“(I) queued up for 30min. (There were) people doing the same thing, getting money out. I think today was very successful,” another added.

“My local bank … never seen it so busy. Lines out the door,” said another. .."

news.com.au/finance/money/costs/massive-queues-aussies-flood-banks-in-cash-protest/news-story/a3e8940489c9c22fcb99d447460ec7d2

Polyphemus wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 9:37am:

amid warnings the country will be “functionally cashless” by 2025.

I've read that 2026 is the earliest estimate, with 2030 being the most conservative.

The protest may look impressive to some, but it's ordinary Australians, themselves, who are driving the cashless economy, with almost 95% of all transactions now electronic/digital - and expected to be 98% (functionally cashless) within the next few years.

The age of hard-core cash users will play a huge role in the decline over the next 5 years.

I think there is a role for government and legislation in this; regarding perhaps ensuring physical Aussie dollars must be an option accepted as a form of payment. I know many wont like that idea for a number of reasons. Short-sighted economists aside re; "untaxed" tiny proportion of GDP thought to exist, There exists elements of society where removal of the physical payment option will have more far reaching results than anticipated IMHO. From sex workers to the poor and others whom would be thrown under the "bus" and forced into further criminal efforts to survive. The small "untaxed" portion that may exist should be thought of as the sacrificial anode that stops society corroding from the bottom. I'm positive if using physical payments becomes "impossible", crime will steadily become worse and worse. You can't beg for dollars, you have to steal goods. You can't retain sex work anonymity etc etc. You think the entire length of human existence drug trade wont continue; you're an imbecile. I also predict a massive rise in payment fees. The digital system then becomes effectively, an economic system monopoly. You can guarantee it will be monetised even further. The tiny gain the economists and short-sighted business groups think they are getting, will be more than cancelled out once truly calculated through the entire society. Once again, none of that even factors in digital payment system failures and nefarious attacks. Wising up and realising you need to keep the option is probably in reality not enough, if it is allowed to become effectively impossible to revert to cash as all businesses and financial systems have removed the option. Track it, limit it sure, but society needs a form of physical transaction as an option.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:34am:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 3rd, 2024 at 11:24pm: Goose wrote on Apr 3rd, 2024 at 11:16pm: A number of economists like and promote the idea of removing all physical (cash) payment options from economies. Yanis Varoufakis being just one of them for example; whom tried to bring it in in Greece but failed. I think it is yet another "economist" idea thought through with the depth of a child. Bartering and trading of goods and services would ramp back up and be impossible to track and tax. There would be no "safety net" payment system to kick in on digital system failure. I understand wanting to solve the in reality very small "untaxed" cash economy some "think" exists but removing all physical payment options is idiocy IMHO. People would use American dollars if our cash disappeared. If the Australian economy had not collapsed, how would large volumes of US cash enter the country such that ordinary Australians would have access to it?

Dunno - ask someone in Cuba.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 12:14pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 6:34am: Bobby. wrote on Apr 3rd, 2024 at 11:24pm: Goose wrote on Apr 3rd, 2024 at 11:16pm: A number of economists like and promote the idea of removing all physical (cash) payment options from economies. Yanis Varoufakis being just one of them for example; whom tried to bring it in in Greece but failed. I think it is yet another "economist" idea thought through with the depth of a child. Bartering and trading of goods and services would ramp back up and be impossible to track and tax. There would be no "safety net" payment system to kick in on digital system failure. I understand wanting to solve the in reality very small "untaxed" cash economy some "think" exists but removing all physical payment options is idiocy IMHO. People would use American dollars if our cash disappeared. If the Australian economy had not collapsed, how would large volumes of US cash enter the country such that ordinary Australians would have access to it? Dunno - ask someone in Cuba.

How's Cuba's economy? Are they still rioting about not being able to buy food?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 12:16pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 12:14pm: Dunno - ask someone in Cuba. How's Cuba's economy? Are they still rioting about not being able to buy food?

I dunno - many countries around the world use American dollars
instead of their own currencies or you can change them at a Bank.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/07/unofficial_dollarization.asp


https://www.quora.com/Do-any-countries-not-accept-US-dollars-as-legal-tender-If-so-which-ones-dont-and-why-not

Bobby. wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 12:39pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 12:16pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 12:14pm: Dunno - ask someone in Cuba. How's Cuba's economy? Are they still rioting about not being able to buy food? I dunno - many countries around the world use American dollars instead of their own currencies or you can change them at a Bank. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/07/unofficial_dollarization.asp https://www.quora.com/Do-any-countries-not-accept-US-dollars-as-legal-tender-If-so-which-ones-dont-and-why-not

Do countries that use the US dollar have anything in common?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 12:42pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 12:39pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 12:16pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 12:14pm: Dunno - ask someone in Cuba. How's Cuba's economy? Are they still rioting about not being able to buy food? I dunno - many countries around the world use American dollars instead of their own currencies or you can change them at a Bank. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/07/unofficial_dollarization.asp https://www.quora.com/Do-any-countries-not-accept-US-dollars-as-legal-tender-If-so-which-ones-dont-and-why-not Do countries that use the US dollar have anything in common?

Google is your friend.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 12:46pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 12:42pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 12:39pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 12:16pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 12:14pm: Dunno - ask someone in Cuba. How's Cuba's economy? Are they still rioting about not being able to buy food? I dunno - many countries around the world use American dollars instead of their own currencies or you can change them at a Bank. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/07/unofficial_dollarization.asp https://www.quora.com/Do-any-countries-not-accept-US-dollars-as-legal-tender-If-so-which-ones-dont-and-why-not Do countries that use the US dollar have anything in common? Google is your friend.

Aye, it is.

They are all economic basket cases.

I think the argument re; US dollar usage in some countries is kind of missing the point. They haven't banned physical payments. Really the question is; do you agree with the economists and short-sighted business groups (who can only see a short-sighted, primary school level analysis saving in handling costs) whom are actually pushing to see it removed as an option altogether? There are government advising experts supporting the gradual removal of option and eventual banning. There is also support at IMF levels and some economists in favour of negative interest rates and banks charging you to hold balances in accounts. Cash acts as a floor against negative interest rates. It's all driven by economists failing to fully grasp the societal ramifications. We need to keep a physical payment option in society IMHO.

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 1:56pm:

I think the argument re; US dollar usage in some countries is kind of missing the point. They haven't banned physical payments. Really the question is do you agree with the economists and short-sighted business groups (who can only see a short-sighted, primary school level analysis saving in handling costs) whom are actually pushing to see it removed as an option altogether. There are government advising experts supporting the gradual removal of option and eventual banning. This is also supported by the IMF and some economists in favour of negative interest rates and banks charging you to hold balances in accounts. Cash acts as a floor against negative interest rates. It's all driven by economists failing to fully grasp the societal ramifications. We need to keep a physical payment option in society IMHO.

You mean - will the Govt. make cash illegal in Australia -
even foreign cash such as US dollars?

The idea is to eventually stop ALL physical payment options.

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 2:11pm:

The idea is to eventually stop ALL physical payment options.

Even gold bars?

Bobby. wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 2:12pm:

Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:11pm: The idea is to eventually stop ALL physical payment options. Even gold bars?

ALL

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 2:13pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:12pm: Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:11pm: The idea is to eventually stop ALL physical payment options. Even gold bars? ALL

What about -

if you mow my lawns I'll give you 4kgs of apples?

Goose wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2024 at 11:16pm:

A number of economists like and promote the idea of removing all physical (cash) payment options from economies. Yanis Varoufakis being just one of them for example; whom tried to bring it in in Greece but failed. I think it is yet another "economist" idea thought through with the depth of a child. Bartering and trading of goods and services would come back to an extent and be even more impossible to track and tax. There would be no "safety net" payment system to kick in on digital system failure. I understand wanting to solve the in reality very small "untaxed" cash economy some place far too great an emphasis on, but removing all physical payment options is idiocy IMHO.

Yes. Greece is a great 'economic' example of progress and 'superior technology' gimmicktri fads, eh? ;)

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 12:16pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 12:14pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 6:34am: Bobby. wrote on Apr 3rd, 2024 at 11:24pm: Goose wrote on Apr 3rd, 2024 at 11:16pm: A number of economists like and promote the idea of removing all physical (cash) payment options from economies. Yanis Varoufakis being just one of them for example; whom tried to bring it in in Greece but failed. I think it is yet another "economist" idea thought through with the depth of a child. Bartering and trading of goods and services would ramp back up and be impossible to track and tax. There would be no "safety net" payment system to kick in on digital system failure. I understand wanting to solve the in reality very small "untaxed" cash economy some "think" exists but removing all physical payment options is idiocy IMHO. People would use American dollars if our cash disappeared. If the Australian economy had not collapsed, how would large volumes of US cash enter the country such that ordinary Australians would have access to it? Dunno - ask someone in Cuba. How's Cuba's economy? Are they still rioting about not being able to buy food?

USA propaganda had Cubans starving, the shelves empty, etc, etc.
...but Castro kept them well fed, one of the best health systems, they lived 20% longer than the mentally insular Americans and much more.

Lol

They want Online Monetary Economics to be like God.
Totally invisible beyond being 'reliant' on the Internet to exist in digital (record) form.

$1.93 million was scammed out of one NSW south coast suburb. Just 'one' suburb alone. This was in 2019. Most of the money was filtered out to the West African (N+igg=ers) Cafe Boys.

I've mostly heard of people being scammed of over $10,000 and way more. Even hearing this when waiting in line at a Bank.

Read between the lines: YOU WILL BE 'CASHLESS'.
Simple as that.

...makes you wonder where all your money will go eh? ;)


USA: is one of the worst Economies in the world, almost 4th world level and still in archaic Imperial and mega-trillions in debt. Do business with America and they will try to destroy you, because they can't compete at a fair level. They have to destroy the competition to keep their Economy floating.

...and here we are with a American dick-suck in Albanese the PM and now a WOKE American left idiot for the G-G.  ::)

If USA goes 'cashless', don't follow them down that 'economic' path of destruction and mass debt.
The USA is not far off as far as Greece went, remember?

Of course: All Australians are as weak as piss when standing up to their Politicians, let alone those on 'America's' behalf.
You will take it up the arse and be robbed of your money and given a few digits on a computer screen until it goes 'blink' and its gone! Erased. Oops 'sorry'.

[/quote] Yes. Greece is a great 'economic' example of progress and 'superior technology' gimmicktri fads, eh? ;)[/quote]
Lol

Really it's about control. In order to have complete control of the populace and it's spending behaviour. The argument is; that requires complete control. My argument is; you will never have COMPLETE control, EVER. As such retaining the physical payment option (tracked and limited) and the benefits of that for society as described earlier, is a necessity.

Some countries you can take Mathematical (Economic) advice and lead by example - from.
Other nations you can't. They're better at other things besides the above mentioned.

Now if the colour of Maths is Black, then I guess the American Black is only interested in the size of his dick, rather than his bank balance. So I don't think following the USA down this 'gimmicktri fad' because its the latest technology (so therefor it 'must' be better! :D) is wise.
There are better nations to follow economically.
Just like Australia would be wise to follow Israel and how it deals with the enemy, rather than some other nations.

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 2:44pm:

Really it's about control. In order to have complete control of the populace and it's spending behaviour. The argument is; that requires complete control. My argument is you will never have COMPLETE control, EVER. As such retaining the physical payment option (tracked and limited) and the benefits of that for society as described earlier, is a necessity.

Yemen has complete control of its citizens.
Every cent you spend and where. You income. Camera's following everyone in the streets. All online platforms are heavily monitored and restricted access to the outside world.
The Soviets couldn't even attain this level of 'control', beyond pointing a gun.

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 2:44pm:

Really it's about control. In order to have complete control of the populace and it's spending behaviour. The argument is; that requires complete control. My argument is you will never have COMPLETE control, EVER. As such retaining the physical payment option (tracked and limited) and the benefits of that for society as described earlier, is a necessity.

The drug dealers will have to move to physical US dollars.
Ordinary people will need US dollars to buy anything on the black market.
Many hobby farmers sell produce for cash only to
bypass the supermarkets and the Govt's. GST.
Top produce for less than half the price - much of it organic.

Jasin wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 2:48pm:

Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:44pm: Really it's about control. In order to have complete control of the populace and it's spending behaviour. The argument is; that requires complete control. My argument is you will never have COMPLETE control, EVER. As such retaining the physical payment option (tracked and limited) and the benefits of that for society as described earlier, is a necessity. Yemen has complete control of its citizens. Every cent you spend and where. You income. Camera's following everyone in the streets. All online platforms are heavily monitored and restricted access to the outside world. The Soviets couldn't even attain this level of 'control', beyond pointing a gun.

There is never COMPLETE control. The closest to that achievement is slavery and actual ownership of the body. Otherwise removal of cash just leads to selling sex for a meal, selling a child for a years worth of rice, selling your own labour for goods and services, buying drugs for ever more stolen goods; like your $5000 Spoodle etc etc.

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 11:57am:

I think there is a role for government and legislation in this; regarding perhaps ensuring physical Aussie dollars must be an option accepted as a form of payment. I know many wont like that idea for a number of reasons. Short-sighted economists aside re; "untaxed" tiny proportion of GDP thought to exist, There exists elements of society where removal of the physical payment option will have more far reaching results than anticipated IMHO. From sex workers to the poor and others whom would be thrown under the "bus" and forced into further criminal efforts to survive. The small "untaxed" portion that may exist should be thought of as the sacrificial anode that stops society corroding from the bottom. I'm positive if using physical payments becomes "impossible", crime will steadily become worse and worse. You can't beg for dollars, you have to steal goods. You can't retain sex work anonymity etc etc. You think the entire length of human existence drug trade wont continue; you're an imbecile. I also predict a massive rise in payment fees. The digital system then becomes effectively, an economic system monopoly. You can guarantee it will be monetised even further. The tiny gain the economists and short-sighted business groups think they are getting, will be more than cancelled out once truly calculated through the entire society. Once again, none of that even factors in digital payment system failures and nefarious attacks. Wising up and realising you need to keep the option is probably in reality not enough, if it is allowed to become effectively impossible to revert to cash as all businesses and financial systems have removed the option. Track it, limit it sure, but society needs a form of physical transaction as an option.

Your posts are insightful in that you're trying to look at all sides of this.

When this transition started I used to joke that prices would go up. You'd no longer get the "cash price".  ;D  Well, that's not so much a joke anymore, is it? It's definitely a factor in the increased cost of living.

Also, there's the privacy aspect. You mentioned sex workers. Well, for those who visit them, I'm sure they don't want that to be displayed on their statements for the prying eyes of  the wife, girlfriend and nosy public servants. But there may be a host of other things people might be shy about revealing.

There is also the problem of hackers. Geez, there are devices where such bent persons can walk into shopping centres with them and download your cards' details because of the RF signal they continually transmit.

And what if some super hackers sponsored by adversary states bring down the system or there's some kind of EMP attack. People will be left in a lurch because they won't be able to access funds. There needs to be a physical back-up- like being able to walk into your bank and directly withdraw cash.

Have anyone of you watched the movie  Brazil? In it governments have the power to disconnect you from services and your money at a flick of a button. They're almost there. Are you all comfortable with that prospect? Do you trust governments enough with the kind of omniscience and power that going cashless will give them?

Electronic transactions are a form of mass surveillance. This old article from The Guardian shows us how this will corrode our democracy, nay our very society:

NSA and GCHQ: the flawed psychology of government mass surveillance

"Research shows that indiscriminate monitoring fosters distrust, conformity and mediocrity

Recent disclosures about the scope of government surveillance are staggering. We now know that the UK's Tempora program records huge volumes of private communications, including – as standard – our emails, social networking activity, internet histories, and telephone calls. Much of this data is then shared with the US National Security Agency, which operates its own (formerly) clandestine surveillance operation. Similar programs are believed to operate in Russia, China, India, and throughout several European countries.

While pundits have argued vigorously about the merits and drawbacks of such programs, the voice of science has remained relatively quiet. This is despite the fact that science, alone, can lay claim to a wealth of empirical evidence on the psychological effects of surveillance. Studying that evidence leads to a clear conclusion and a warning: indiscriminate intelligence-gathering presents a grave risk to our mental health, productivity, social cohesion, and ultimately our future.

Surveillance impairs mental health and performance

For more than 15 years we've known that surveillance leads to heightened levels of stress, fatigue and anxiety. In the workplace it also reduces performance and our sense of personal control. A government that engages in mass surveillance cannot claim to value the wellbeing or productivity of its citizens.

Surveillance promotes distrust between the public and the state

People will trust an authority to the extent that it is seen to behave in their interest and trust them in return. Research suggests that people tolerate limited surveillance provided they believe their security is being bought with someone else's liberty. The moment it becomes clear that they are in fact trading their own liberty, the social contract is broken..."

theguardian.com/science/head-quarters/2013/aug/26/nsa-gchq-psychology-government-m

Guardian article continued...

"for a democratic authority – suddenly, most of the population stands in opposition to their own government.

Surveillance breeds conformity

For more than 50 years we've known that surveillance encourages conformity to social norms. In a series of classic experiments during the 1950s, psychologist Solomon Asch showed that conformity is so powerful that individuals will follow the crowd even when the crowd is obviously wrong. A government that engages in mass surveillance cannot claim to value innovation, critical thinking, or originality.

Surveillance can actually undermine the influence of authority

Security chiefs may believe that surveillance gives them greater control over the populace, but is this truly the case? The answer is complicated. A recent study found that if members of a team felt a common social identity with their leader then surveillance in fact reduced the leader's influence by fostering resentment and distrust. However, if they saw their leader as belonging to a social outgroup then surveillance increased the leader's power.

This pattern is interesting because it places politicians and the security services at loggerheads. For politicians to succeed in a democracy they must be seen as part of the same ingroup as their electorate. We see this in force most strongly during election time, when politicians go to great pains to emphasise their grass roots connections with the community. But by supporting mass surveillance, politicians then undermine this relationship.

The security services, on the other hand, have the opposite motivation. For them, mutual distrust is par for the course, so it is better to maintain a social distance from the public. That way they are guaranteed to be perceived as an outgroup, which – the evidence suggests – increases the influence they can wield through surveillance.

There are two ways to resolve this conflict between the motivations of elected representatives and security services. One is to embrace totalitarianism, breaking all bonds of social identity between politicians and the electorate. In this (unpalatable) scenario, democracy converts to a police state in which all parts of government are seen by the populace as an outgroup. An alternative is to put an end to mass surveillance, forcing the security services to fall in line with the parts of government that value liberty.

What seems clear is that the government can't moonlight as both an ingroup and an outgroup – it can't claim to serve the liberty of its citizens while in the same breath violating that liberty. If they achieve nothing else, the Snowden revelations throw this contradiction into sharp relief.

Surveillance paves the way to a pedestrian future

As the world's governments march toward universal surveillance, their ignorance of psychology is clear at every step. Even in the 2009 House of Lords report "Surveillance: Citizens and the State" – a document that is critical of surveillance – not a single psychologist is interviewed and, in 130 pages, not a single reference is made to decades of psychological research.

We ignore this evidence at our peril. Psychology forewarns us that a future of universal surveillance will be a world bereft of anything sufficiently interesting to spy on – a beige authoritarian landscape in which we lose the ability to relax, innovate, or take risks. A world in which the definition of "appropriate" thought and behaviour becomes so narrow that even the most pedantic norm violations are met with exclusion or punishment. A world in which we may even surrender our very last line of defence – the ability to look back and ask: Why did we do this to ourselves?

theguardian.com/science/head-quarters/2013/aug/26/nsa-gchq-psychology-government-mass-surveillance

Jasin wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 2:32pm:

USA propaganda had Cubans starving, the shelves empty, etc, etc. ...but Castro kept them well fed, one of the best health systems, they lived 20% longer than the mentally insular Americans and much more.

Not one for history, then...

Cuba's economy collapsed almost overnight after the collapse of the Soviet Union, which propped up Cuba's economy.

And just recently Cubans protested in the streets over power and food...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE3C4zDWO_c

Bobby. wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 2:22pm:

Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:13pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:12pm: Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:11pm: The idea is to eventually stop ALL physical payment options. Even gold bars? ALL What about - if you mow my lawns I'll give you 4kgs of apples?

Exactly. This is just one of the realities, economists fail to include in their algorithmic models. 

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 5:22pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:22pm: Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:13pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:12pm: Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:11pm: The idea is to eventually stop ALL physical payment options. Even gold bars? ALL What about - if you mow my lawns I'll give you 4kgs of apples? Exactly. This is just one of the realities, economists fail to include in their algorithmic models.

The black market economy will be turbo charged if cash is made illegal.

It flourished in WW2 in Europe even under war conditions -
it could not be stamped out.

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 5:22pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:22pm: Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:13pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:12pm: Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:11pm: The idea is to eventually stop ALL physical payment options. Even gold bars? ALL What about - if you mow my lawns I'll give you 4kgs of apples? Exactly. This is just one of the realities, economists fail to include in their algorithmic models.

How many apples can you eat?

The so-called preppers in the US are stacking 90% silver dimes and quarters for their use in trade,

Bobby. wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:09pm:

Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 5:22pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:22pm: Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:13pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:12pm: Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:11pm: The idea is to eventually stop ALL physical payment options. Even gold bars? ALL What about - if you mow my lawns I'll give you 4kgs of apples? Exactly. This is just one of the realities, economists fail to include in their algorithmic models.  The black market economy will be turbo charged if cash is made illegal. It flourished in WW2 in Europe even under war conditions - it could not be stamped out.

The black market will be hobbled without cash. Their only general medium of exchange will be precious metals.

In WW2, all functioning governments issued banknotes.

After the war, countries like the Netherlands demonetised their pre-war currency to collapse the black market.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 6:09pm: Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 5:22pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:22pm: Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:13pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:12pm: Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:11pm: The idea is to eventually stop ALL physical payment options. Even gold bars? ALL What about - if you mow my lawns I'll give you 4kgs of apples? Exactly. This is just one of the realities, economists fail to include in their algorithmic models.  The black market economy will be turbo charged if cash is made illegal. It flourished in WW2 in Europe even under war conditions - it could not be stamped out. The black market will be hobbled without cash. Their only general medium of exchange will be precious metals. In WW2, all functioning governments issued banknotes. After the war, countries like the Dutch demonetised their pre-war currency to collapse the black market.

Nope. Black markets will continue, as they have through all human history. They'll just be even harder to track.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:19pm:

Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 5:22pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:22pm: Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:13pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:12pm: Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:11pm: The idea is to eventually stop ALL physical payment options. Even gold bars? ALL What about - if you mow my lawns I'll give you 4kgs of apples? Exactly. This is just one of the realities, economists fail to include in their algorithmic models.  How many apples can you eat? The so-called preppers in the US are stacking 90% silver dimes and quarters for their use in trade,

You would use some of the apples to buy other things that you want.

examples -

I'll swap you 4 apples for 5 potatoes.

If you give me a haircut you can have 5 apples.
The local hairdresser will have fruit stalls as well.

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:30pm:

Quote: The black market will be hobbled without cash. Their only general medium of exchange will be precious metals. In WW2, all functioning governments issued banknotes. After the war, countries like the Dutch demonetised their pre-war currency to collapse the black market. Nope. Black markets will continue, as they have through all human history. They'll just be even harder to track.

Throughout history, the black market has used precious metals - gold and silver as the physical medium of exchange.

For the last 100+ years, banknotes have been the preferred black market physical medium of exchange. In a cashless society, precious metals will be the only physical medium of exchange.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:32pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 6:19pm: Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 5:22pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:22pm: Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:13pm: Bobby. wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:12pm: Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:11pm: The idea is to eventually stop ALL physical payment options. Even gold bars? ALL What about - if you mow my lawns I'll give you 4kgs of apples? Exactly. This is just one of the realities, economists fail to include in their algorithmic models.  How many apples can you eat? The so-called preppers in the US are stacking 90% silver dimes and quarters for their use in trade, You would use some of the apples to buy other things that you want. examples - I'll swap you 4 apples for 5 potatoes. If you give me a haircut you can have 5 apples. The local hairdresser will have fruit stalls as well.

What if I want out-of-season oranges, a litre of milk, 2 loaves of bread, toilet paper and a tin of fly spray?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:43pm:

Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 6:30pm: Quote: The black market will be hobbled without cash. Their only general medium of exchange will be precious metals. In WW2, all functioning governments issued banknotes. After the war, countries like the Dutch demonetised their pre-war currency to collapse the black market. Nope. Black markets will continue, as they have through all human history. They'll just be even harder to track. Throughout history, the black market has used precious metals - gold and silver as the physical medium of exchange. For the last 100+ years, banknotes have been the preferred black market physical medium of exchange. In a cashless society, precious metals will be the only physical medium of exchange.

The "Black market" existed before "precious metals" were even known by humans. There has always been transactions occurring secretly between individuals off to the side, outside the knowledge of the main "group". Everything from sex to drugs, food, carvings, shells, coconuts, cars, labour, influence and everything in between you can think of through history and all it's various payment system efforts. It's not going anywhere, ever.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:43pm:

Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 6:30pm: Quote: The black market will be hobbled without cash. Their only general medium of exchange will be precious metals. In WW2, all functioning governments issued banknotes. After the war, countries like the Dutch demonetised their pre-war currency to collapse the black market. Nope. Black markets will continue, as they have through all human history. They'll just be even harder to track. Throughout history, the black market has used precious metals - gold and silver as the physical medium of exchange. For the last 100+ years, banknotes have been the preferred black market physical medium of exchange. In a cashless society, precious metals will be the only physical medium of exchange.

Many black markets around the world use physical US dollars.

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:49pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 6:43pm: Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 6:30pm: Quote: The black market will be hobbled without cash. Their only general medium of exchange will be precious metals. In WW2, all functioning governments issued banknotes. After the war, countries like the Dutch demonetised their pre-war currency to collapse the black market. Nope. Black markets will continue, as they have through all human history. They'll just be even harder to track. Throughout history, the black market has used precious metals - gold and silver as the physical medium of exchange. For the last 100+ years, banknotes have been the preferred black market physical medium of exchange. In a cashless society, precious metals will be the only physical medium of exchange. The "Black market" has existed before "precious metals" were even known by humans. There has always been transactions occurring secretly between individuals off to the side, outside the knowledge of the main "group". Everything from sex to drugs, food, carvings, shells, coconuts, cars, labour, influence and everything in between you can think of through history and all it's various payment system efforts. It's not going anywhere, ever.

Markets require civilisation. What happened pre-civilisation stays in the caves.

However, the commodities you mentioned - carvings, shells, coconuts - were once money. Not much use for them now as money, I'd bet.

Others - influence, sex and food - even chimps can manage secretive transactions involving those, hardly a market.

How many cars do you own that you could use for under-the-table transactions?

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:49pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 6:43pm: Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 6:30pm: Quote: The black market will be hobbled without cash. Their only general medium of exchange will be precious metals. In WW2, all functioning governments issued banknotes. After the war, countries like the Dutch demonetised their pre-war currency to collapse the black market. Nope. Black markets will continue, as they have through all human history. They'll just be even harder to track. Throughout history, the black market has used precious metals - gold and silver as the physical medium of exchange. For the last 100+ years, banknotes have been the preferred black market physical medium of exchange. In a cashless society, precious metals will be the only physical medium of exchange. The "Black market" existed before "precious metals" were even known by humans. There has always been transactions occurring secretly between individuals off to the side, outside the knowledge of the main "group". Everything from sex to drugs, food, carvings, shells, coconuts, cars, labour, influence and everything in between you can think of through history and all it's various payment system efforts. It's not going anywhere, ever.

I read once in Melbourne that a female renter was providing
sexual services to her landlord when she couldn't pay the rent.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:58pm:

Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 6:49pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 6:43pm: Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 6:30pm: Quote: The black market will be hobbled without cash. Their only general medium of exchange will be precious metals. In WW2, all functioning governments issued banknotes. After the war, countries like the Dutch demonetised their pre-war currency to collapse the black market. Nope. Black markets will continue, as they have through all human history. They'll just be even harder to track. Throughout history, the black market has used precious metals - gold and silver as the physical medium of exchange. For the last 100+ years, banknotes have been the preferred black market physical medium of exchange. In a cashless society, precious metals will be the only physical medium of exchange. The "Black market" existed before "precious metals" were even known by humans. There has always been transactions occurring secretly between individuals off to the side, outside the knowledge of the main "group". Everything from sex to drugs, food, carvings, shells, coconuts, cars, labour, influence and everything in between you can think of through history and all it's various payment system efforts. It's not going anywhere, ever. I read once in Melbourne that a female renter was providing sexual services to her landlord when she couldn't pay the rent.

I find that hard to swallow.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:56pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 6:43pm: Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 6:30pm: Quote: The black market will be hobbled without cash. Their only general medium of exchange will be precious metals. In WW2, all functioning governments issued banknotes. After the war, countries like the Dutch demonetised their pre-war currency to collapse the black market. Nope. Black markets will continue, as they have through all human history. They'll just be even harder to track. Throughout history, the black market has used precious metals - gold and silver as the physical medium of exchange. For the last 100+ years, banknotes have been the preferred black market physical medium of exchange. In a cashless society, precious metals will be the only physical medium of exchange. Many black markets around the world use physical US dollars.

You need a steady and reliable supply of them.

BTW, banks have tightened up on the hoarding of US dollars in safety deposit boxes.

Of course, the US is also moving towards a cashless society, so they will soon be gone too.

Bobby. wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 6:58pm:

Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 6:49pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 6:43pm: Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 6:30pm: Quote: The black market will be hobbled without cash. Their only general medium of exchange will be precious metals. In WW2, all functioning governments issued banknotes. After the war, countries like the Dutch demonetised their pre-war currency to collapse the black market. Nope. Black markets will continue, as they have through all human history. They'll just be even harder to track. Throughout history, the black market has used precious metals - gold and silver as the physical medium of exchange. For the last 100+ years, banknotes have been the preferred black market physical medium of exchange. In a cashless society, precious metals will be the only physical medium of exchange. The "Black market" existed before "precious metals" were even known by humans. There has always been transactions occurring secretly between individuals off to the side, outside the knowledge of the main "group". Everything from sex to drugs, food, carvings, shells, coconuts, cars, labour, influence and everything in between you can think of through history and all it's various payment system efforts. It's not going anywhere, ever. I read once in Melbourne that a female renter was providing sexual services to her landlord when she couldn't pay the rent.

Weren't you once managing an apartment block in Melbourne??!!

Goose wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 3:06pm:

Jasin wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:48pm: Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 2:44pm: Really it's about control. In order to have complete control of the populace and it's spending behaviour. The argument is; that requires complete control. My argument is you will never have COMPLETE control, EVER. As such retaining the physical payment option (tracked and limited) and the benefits of that for society as described earlier, is a necessity. Yemen has complete control of its citizens. Every cent you spend and where. You income. Camera's following everyone in the streets. All online platforms are heavily monitored and restricted access to the outside world. The Soviets couldn't even attain this level of 'control', beyond pointing a gun. There is never COMPLETE control. The closest to that achievement is slavery and actual ownership of the body. Otherwise removal of cash just leads to selling sex for a meal, selling a child for a years worth of rice, selling your own labour for goods and services, buying drugs for ever more stolen goods; like your $5000 Spoodle etc etc.

I've done Volunteer work.
If I didn't get paid.
I got laid.
Volunteer work is so sociable.  ;)

Damn it! There's too many comments here both funny and yet.... well not :-/

Let's say this 'Cashless' Online system of Market is called the Red Market for argument's sake.

This Red Market, by going Cashless-Online ONLY will now compromise itself from the other Markets like the ever-lasting Black Market and even such things as 'Garage Sales' down the road. It will cut itself off from older markets.

It's basically a Market that now cuts itself off from other Markets like a nation that adopts isolationism away from others.
Seems Australia is the new 'Guinea Pig' Crash Test Dummy now... now that Argentina won't play ball anymore to these stupid Lefty gimmicks that have ruined them these past 20 odd years.
Australia will be highly compromised economically and 'technologically' as it is going to be a very expensive business indeed to keep this 'online only' market running effectively (for fear of utilities failing from an earthquake, storm, fire, etc).

What will probably happen in a cashless society?

In the first instance, an Australian CBDC dollar will be introduced.

People will be encouraged to adopt the new e-currency by the waiving of all fees on every transaction.

Australian CBDC dollars will not be convertible into cash.

Banks' issuing of cash will continue to decline until, sometime within the next few years, cash will only be issued in small amounts, if at all.

https://www.rba.gov.au/payments-and-infrastructure/central-bank-digital-currency/

Central Bank Digital Currency


The Reserve Bank is actively researching central bank digital currency (CBDC) as a complement to existing forms of money.

The Reserve Bank currently issues two forms of money:

    physical money in the form of banknotes, which can be used by households and businesses to make payments, and
    digital money in the form of balances held in accounts that commercial banks and some other types of financial institutions can hold at the Reserve Bank to settle payment obligations between each other.

A CBDC would be a new digital form of money issued by the Reserve Bank. It could be designed for retail (or general purpose) use, which would be like a digital version of banknotes that is essentially universally accessible, or for wholesale use, where it is accessible only to a more limited range of wholesale market participants for use in wholesale payment and settlement systems.

A CBDC could potentially support a number of the Bank's policy objectives, including safeguarding public trust in money and promoting efficiency, safety, resilience and innovation in payment systems and financial market infrastructures.

Our research has been looking at various possible use cases, exploring the potential benefits, opportunities and challenges associated with CBDC, and examining how a CBDC could be designed and developed if a decision was ever taken to implement one. Distributed ledger technology (DLT) is one possible technology platform we have been exploring that could be used to implement a CBDC. We have been collaborating with external parties on this research and will continue to do so.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 9:04pm:

What will probably happen in a cashless society? In the first instance, an Australian CBDC dollar will be introduced. People will be encouraged to adopt the new e-currency by the waiving of all fees on every transaction. Australian CBDC dollars will not be convertible into cash. Banks' issuing of cash will continue to decline until, sometime within the next few years, cash will only be issued in small amounts, if at all.

And after that - in flow all the 'processing' fees and surcharges because its so hard for a 'nano-second' to achieve all that hard yakka work.

Jasin wrote on Apr 4^th, 2024 at 9:20pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 4th, 2024 at 9:04pm: What will probably happen in a cashless society? In the first instance, an Australian CBDC dollar will be introduced. People will be encouraged to adopt the new e-currency by the waiving of all fees on every transaction. Australian CBDC dollars will not be convertible into cash. Banks' issuing of cash will continue to decline until, sometime within the next few years, cash will only be issued in small amounts, if at all. And after that - in flow all the 'processing' fees and surcharges because its so hard for a 'nano-second' to achieve all that hard yakka work.

It's hard to imagine banks not being tempted to reimpose fees once the CDBC adoption process succeeds...

It's almost against human nature not to want to capitalise on easy profit opportunities.

You know it will have a hook in it.  ;)
Even Television didn't last as 'free'.

Central bank digital currencies are a given. They're coming and China has already pretty much fully integrated theirs internally. They are a favourite ideal for populace monetary and arguably; behavioural control. The hold up has actually really been the old wall street bankers who couldn't get their heads around the possible loss of "printing" control of the world currency. They're finally realising they could still control effectively a USDC pegged to the old dollar by which all other DC's are still effectively valued and exchanged. The whole Crypto scene has been a good indicator of this whereby every one of the thousands of DC's, including the big two BTC and ETH are still valued and exchanged according to their USD value.

We'll soon see when China's A.I. points a gun and holds up Australia's A.I. and demands $42 trillion in a nano-second.  ;)

AusGeoff wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2024 at 3:14am:

One has only to look at the disastrous  power outages caused by storms in Victoria from  Tuesday 13 February and Thursday 22 February this year in order to see how even a breakdown in one area of technology can cripple us socially. No perishable foods available; no ATMs functioning; libraries, post offices, and banks closed; cafes and hotels closed; petrol stations closed; no VoIP (home phone) access; no internet access; no 4G phone access; no street or security lighting, unable to call fire or ambulance etc. We were in the dark—literally—for 3½ days.   Not good enough in "the lucky country".      >:(

Were the police working or was it impossible to call them?

People are ridiculed for being Preppers i guess it didn't impact them as much.

BUMP 19/07/2024
Australians have been hit by a worldwide tech outage. Here's what we know
[i]Payment systems are causing major disruption at supermarkets and fuel stations.

People are stuck at fuel pumps unable to pay for their petrol.

Supermarket customers have been sending the ABC photos of self-check-outs with error messages.

And shops have been forced to close their doors.[i]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-07-19/global-tech-outage-latest/104120106

I wonder what the  total cost might be to the entire Australian economy if just one entire day of trading was lost, nationwide, due to digital payment crash and zero physical payment options.

Hell, I still use a thing called Barter.
I'm a bit of a 'go-to' man in my area.
Wanna trade this for that??
It's amazing what you can get from trading a paper-clip.  ;)