Across the world, banks are becoming increasingly more strident with their iron-fisted war against cash.

The banks’ public reasons for this are uniform: they insist they're acting in their clients’ and buyers’ best interests and refer to precious metals online scams or scammers who ask online victims for cash deposits.

However, if that were true, or the only motive, banks should not have a problem with bullion dealers transacting in cash with their customers – they are legitimate businesses that have always been subject to thorough oversight from government security agencies, the ATO, insurance companies, courier services, audit services, customs authorities, and banks.

But the banks do have a problem with bullion dealers.

Here’s one story highlighting what banks are doing to discourage bullion dealers from accepting cash as payment – irrespective of whether the transaction is legal.

A bullion dealer regularly sells gold bullion over $10,000 in a cash transaction.

The bank sends a ‘letter of concern’ about these cash transactions.

The bullion dealer decides to structure these cash sales – e.g., instead of 1 transaction totalling $12,000, they make it 4 transactions for $3000 each.

The bullion dealer receives a letter from the bank advising that it has decided to terminate its business relationship with the dealer.

In the letter the bank offers contact details to discuss further but, as the dealer will find out, the bank will not review its decision nor state in writing its reasons for its decision. Appeal is pointless.

Banks and other large institutions are acting as social engineers and moral authorities instead of simply running their business.  If a client has broken the law there are mechanisms to deal with this, however with decisions like the one above and the recent decision by a UK bank to shut the accounts of UK politician Nigel Farage because they disagreed with his politics shows an unacceptable level of overreach. 

The Chinese social credit system is slowly working its way through western society. 

Any link for this story?

Belgarion wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2023 at 4:35pm:

Banks and other large institutions are acting as social engineers and moral authorities instead of simply running their business.  If a client has broken the law there are mechanisms to deal with this, however with decisions like the one above and the recent decision by a UK bank to shut the accounts of UK politician Nigel Farage because they disagreed with his politics shows an unacceptable level of overreach.  The Chinese social credit system is slowly working its way through western society.

To be fair to banks' executives, the drive for this is coming from governments.

Banks, themselves, I'm sure would just be happy to profit from legal cash transactions and only have a problem with very large cash transactions due to its management overheads.

National law has always required banks to exercise due diligence with the business they conduct.

Given that AI can now red-flag deposit patterns in a fraction of the time it once took auditors to manually trawl through bank records, banks are increasingly being forced to terminate their business relationships with those customers who deal in cash where their withdrawal/deposit patterns are similar to those used to launder cash or move it around in an effort to obscure the trail.

Failure to act and the bank runs the risk of being legally liable if the customer is actually laundering cash or attempting to evade tax.

Bobby. wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2023 at 4:40pm:

Any link for this story?

That was an actual account of a bullion dealer I know personally.

But, ask around. It's happening across Australia and worldwide.

Belgarion wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2023 at 4:35pm:

the recent decision by a UK bank to shut the accounts of UK politician Nigel Farage because they disagreed with his politics shows an unacceptable level of overreach.

And it didn't end well for the bank executives with the Farage affair, who were exposed as being 'managed' by politicians.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2023 at 4:55pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 4:40pm: Any link for this story? That was an actual account of a bullion dealer I know personally. But, ask around. It's happening across Australia and worldwide.

But how do we know that it's not you making up bullshit?

Bobby. wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2023 at 5:02pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 4:55pm: Bobby. wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 4:40pm: Any link for this story? That was an actual account of a bullion dealer I know personally. But, ask around. It's happening across Australia and worldwide. But how do we know that it's not you making up bullshit?

Is it that hard for you to believe?

There are hundreds of stories online. Start with this:

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/09/what-is-going-three-separate-coin-shop-owners/

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2023 at 5:10pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 5:02pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 4:55pm: Bobby. wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 4:40pm: Any link for this story? That was an actual account of a bullion dealer I know personally. But, ask around. It's happening across Australia and worldwide. But how do we know that it's not you making up bullshit? Is it that hard for you to believe? There are hundreds of stories online. Start with this: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/09/what-is-going-three-separate-coin-shop-owners/

Thanks.

With some of the reports of account closures, you will find that the customer is attempting to evade scrutiny from banks by depositing cash in multiple accounts and across multiple banks.

Deposit structuring.

It may have worked once, but now not...

And if the banks determine that's what you're doing, you'll get a 'Dear John' letter from them.

But, mostly it's ordinary customers who are either trying to withdraw large sums of cash or are regularly depositing large sums of cash as part of their business practice.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2023 at 5:22pm:

With some of the reports of account closures, you will find that the customer is attempting to evade scrutiny from banks by depositing cash in multiple accounts and across multiple banks. Deposit structuring. It may have worked once, but now not... And if the banks determine that's what you're doing, you'll get a 'Dear John' letter from them. But, mostly it's ordinary customers who are either trying to withdraw large sums of cash or are regularly depositing large sums of cash as part of their business practice.

The Banks are only trying to avoid massive fines from the Govt. for money laundering.

Bobby. wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2023 at 6:06pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 5:22pm: With some of the reports of account closures, you will find that the customer is attempting to evade scrutiny from banks by depositing cash in multiple accounts and across multiple banks. Deposit structuring. It may have worked once, but now not... And if the banks determine that's what you're doing, you'll get a 'Dear John' letter from them. But, mostly it's ordinary customers who are either trying to withdraw large sums of cash or are regularly depositing large sums of cash as part of their business practice. The Banks are only trying to avoid massive fines from the Govt. for money laundering.

That's the most obvious motivating factor.

But it's intrusive when banks flat-out refuse to allow a withdrawal or suspend accounts when a customer attempts to make a legitimate purchase that the bank doesn't like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCr8N9Kcypw

Or, even worse, when bank executives are manipulated by politicians into shutting down accounts of people they don't like, such as Nigel Farage or Konstantin Kisin in the UK.

Or the bank CEO/executives decide they don't like your public comments and order your account with their bank to be closed.

And it's not only banks: credit card companies and PayPal have also been closing or suspending peoples' accounts due to political pressure.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2023 at 6:17pm:

That's the most obvious motivating factor. But it's intrusive when banks flat-out refuse to allow a withdrawal or suspend accounts when a customer attempts to make a legitimate purchase that the bank doesn't like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCr8N9Kcypw Or, even worse, when bank executives are manipulated by politicians into shutting down accounts of people they don't like, such as Nigel Farage or Konstantin Kisin in the UK. Or the bank CEO decides he doesn't like our public comments and orders your account with their bank to be closed. And it's not only banks: credit card companies and PayPal have also been closing or suspending peoples' accounts due to political pressure.

Yes - that happened to Max Igan - the political commentator -
he had all his Bank Accounts and credit cards closed down
so he moved to Mexico for a while.

Rejoice and be glad? For the end of cash is at hand?

By 2025, cash will either be obsolete or will only be held as a 'Plan B' to cover disasters and/or other digital downtime events.

Will consumers have to pay to access cash or face a future without banknotes?

According to the RBA, in 2007, 69 per cent of Australians said they would use cash to transact. By 2019 this had fallen to 27 per cent, and by 2022 just 13 per cent.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-30/will-consumers-have-to-pay-to-access-cash-or-will-we-be-cashless/103249748

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 23^rd, 2023 at 5:10pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 5:02pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 4:55pm: Bobby. wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 4:40pm: Any link for this story? That was an actual account of a bullion dealer I know personally. But, ask around. It's happening across Australia and worldwide. But how do we know that it's not you making up bullshit? Is it that hard for you to believe? There are hundreds of stories online. Start with this: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/09/what-is-going-three-separate-coin-shop-owners/

Lol    ;D

Well now we KNOW it's bullshit.

The Gateway Pundit    ;D

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 30^th, 2023 at 8:49am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 5:10pm: Bobby. wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 5:02pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 4:55pm: Bobby. wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 4:40pm: Any link for this story? That was an actual account of a bullion dealer I know personally. But, ask around. It's happening across Australia and worldwide. But how do we know that it's not you making up bullshit? Is it that hard for you to believe? There are hundreds of stories online. Start with this: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/09/what-is-going-three-separate-coin-shop-owners/ Lol    ;D Well now we KNOW it's bullshit. The Gateway Pundit    ;D

No, you don't.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 30^th, 2023 at 8:01am:

Rejoice and be glad? For the end of cash is at hand? By 2025, cash will either be obsolete or will only be held as a 'Plan B' to cover disasters and/or other digital downtime events. Will consumers have to pay to access cash or face a future without banknotes? According to the RBA, in 2007, 69 per cent of Australians said they would use cash to transact. By 2019 this had fallen to 27 per cent, and by 2022 just 13 per cent. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-30/will-consumers-have-to-pay-to-access-cash-or-will-we-be-cashless/103249748

Coincidentally, this week I have been conducting an experiment in paying cash for everything rather than using using a card. It has worked well, with one shopkeeper telling me how he prefers dealing in cash. Even in a place where I thought confusion would ensue - the checkout kid in the supermarket - cash was handled with no issues.

This came about because a couple of weeks ago I stopped for a snack in a small country town and a local phone outage meant I could not use a card. Luckily I had a few dollars but it did get me thinking about how inconvenient it could get without cash.  I will try to keep it going until next payday then see how my spending compares.

Belgarion wrote on Dec 30^th, 2023 at 9:47am:

one shopkeeper telling me how he prefers dealing in cash.

Given the overheads with cash management and security issues, did he explain why he prefers dealing in cash?

If not, can you guess why?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 30^th, 2023 at 9:00am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 30th, 2023 at 8:49am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 5:10pm: Bobby. wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 5:02pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 4:55pm: Bobby. wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 4:40pm: Any link for this story? That was an actual account of a bullion dealer I know personally. But, ask around. It's happening across Australia and worldwide. But how do we know that it's not you making up bullshit? Is it that hard for you to believe? There are hundreds of stories online. Start with this: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/09/what-is-going-three-separate-coin-shop-owners/ Lol    ;D Well now we KNOW it's bullshit. The Gateway Pundit    ;D No, you don't.

The Gateway Pundit     ;D

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 30^th, 2023 at 9:56am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 30th, 2023 at 9:00am: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 30th, 2023 at 8:49am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 5:10pm: Bobby. wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 5:02pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 4:55pm: Bobby. wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 4:40pm: Any link for this story? That was an actual account of a bullion dealer I know personally. But, ask around. It's happening across Australia and worldwide. But how do we know that it's not you making up bullshit? Is it that hard for you to believe? There are hundreds of stories online. Start with this: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/09/what-is-going-three-separate-coin-shop-owners/ Lol    ;D Well now we KNOW it's bullshit. The Gateway Pundit    ;D No, you don't. The Gateway Pundit     ;D

You could try asking around, easy enough to do, but you'd need to talk directly to normal people.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 30^th, 2023 at 9:53am:

Belgarion wrote on Dec 30th, 2023 at 9:47am: one shopkeeper telling me how he prefers dealing in cash. Given the overheads with cash management and security issues, did he explain why he prefers dealing in cash? If not, can you guess why?

He didn't say why, just that he preferred it. I assume to do with the fees and charges involved, along with the inconveniences of power outages. 

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 30^th, 2023 at 9:53am:

If not, can you guess why?

not wanting to pay 'x' amount per transaction to the bank or card payment equipment supplier is a pretty good reason ::)

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 30^th, 2023 at 10:29am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 30th, 2023 at 9:56am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 30th, 2023 at 9:00am: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 30th, 2023 at 8:49am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 5:10pm: Bobby. wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 5:02pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 4:55pm: Bobby. wrote on Nov 23rd, 2023 at 4:40pm: Any link for this story? That was an actual account of a bullion dealer I know personally. But, ask around. It's happening across Australia and worldwide. But how do we know that it's not you making up bullshit? Is it that hard for you to believe? There are hundreds of stories online. Start with this: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/09/what-is-going-three-separate-coin-shop-owners/ Lol    ;D Well now we KNOW it's bullshit. The Gateway Pundit    ;D No, you don't. The Gateway Pundit     ;D You could try asking around, easy enough to do, but you'd need to talk directly to normal people.

The Gateway Pundit   ;D

I love when you hear idiots say that stores who refuse to accept cash are breaking the law because cash is legal tender   ;D

Morons   ::)

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 30^th, 2023 at 2:49pm:

I love when you hear idiots say that stores who refuse to accept cash are breaking the law because cash is legal tender   ;D Morons   ::)

At the risk of being branded by your logic ....

Why isn't it legal tender.... & why should cash be refused as such?

Gnads wrote on Dec 30^th, 2023 at 6:09pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 30th, 2023 at 2:49pm: I love when you hear idiots say that stores who refuse to accept cash are breaking the law because cash is legal tender   ;D Morons   ::) At the risk of being branded by your logic .... Why isn't it legal tender.... & why should cash be refused as such?

Oh, it IS legal tender.

But that doesn't mean that shops are obliged by law to accept it.

Their "logic" is ass-backwards.

If a shop only wants to accept credit card payments, or EFTPOS, that's perfectly legal.

Yeah greg is right but on the other hand there is a 2nd hand shop in canberra that wont take cash. a 2nd hand shop! they wont be there long. . . . .

Spot

From the ACCC site:

Businesses can choose which payment types they
accept. It is legal for a business to specify the terms
and conditions that they will supply goods and services.
This includes whether they will accept cash payment.
However, consumers must be made aware of these
terms and conditions before they make a purchase.

Businesses should be clear and upfront about the types
of payments they accept, and the total minimum price
payable for their goods and services.

AusGeoff wrote on Dec 31^st, 2023 at 9:55am:

From the ACCC site: Businesses can choose which payment types they accept. It is legal for a business to specify the terms and conditions that they will supply goods and services. This includes whether they will accept cash payment. However, consumers must be made aware of these terms and conditions before they make a purchase. Businesses should be clear and upfront about the types of payments they accept, and the total minimum price payable for their goods and services.

Yep.

But you still have the morons out there who say "It's legal tender, therefore they must accept it"   ::)

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 30^th, 2023 at 7:05pm:

Gnads wrote on Dec 30th, 2023 at 6:09pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 30th, 2023 at 2:49pm: I love when you hear idiots say that stores who refuse to accept cash are breaking the law because cash is legal tender   ;D Morons   ::) At the risk of being branded by your logic .... Why isn't it legal tender.... & why should cash be refused as such? Oh, it IS legal tender. But that doesn't mean that shops are obliged by law to accept it. Their "logic" is ass-backwards. If a shop only wants to accept credit card payments, or EFTPOS, that's perfectly legal.

Yeah well ... I'd only have to be refused once at a business who did that....

then take my business elsewhere.

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 31^st, 2023 at 10:03am:

AusGeoff wrote on Dec 31st, 2023 at 9:55am: From the ACCC site: Businesses can choose which payment types they accept. It is legal for a business to specify the terms and conditions that they will supply goods and services. This includes whether they will accept cash payment. However, consumers must be made aware of these terms and conditions before they make a purchase. Businesses should be clear and upfront about the types of payments they accept, and the total minimum price payable for their goods and services. Yep. But you still have the morons out there who say "It's legal tender, therefore they must accept it"   ::)

Yes if Banks won't handle ... what chance at any other business who chooses not to?

Gnads wrote on Dec 31^st, 2023 at 10:09am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 30th, 2023 at 7:05pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 30th, 2023 at 6:09pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 30th, 2023 at 2:49pm: I love when you hear idiots say that stores who refuse to accept cash are breaking the law because cash is legal tender   ;D Morons   ::) At the risk of being branded by your logic .... Why isn't it legal tender.... & why should cash be refused as such? Oh, it IS legal tender. But that doesn't mean that shops are obliged by law to accept it. Their "logic" is ass-backwards. If a shop only wants to accept credit card payments, or EFTPOS, that's perfectly legal. Yeah well ... I'd only have to be refused once at a business who did that.... then take my business elsewhere.

Yep.  You're both within your rights.

Personally, it doesn't bother me.

It's their business, they can accept whatever they want - wouldn't make me think any less of them.

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 31^st, 2023 at 10:28am:

Gnads wrote on Dec 31st, 2023 at 10:09am: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 30th, 2023 at 7:05pm: Gnads wrote on Dec 30th, 2023 at 6:09pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 30th, 2023 at 2:49pm: I love when you hear idiots say that stores who refuse to accept cash are breaking the law because cash is legal tender   ;D Morons   ::) At the risk of being branded by your logic .... Why isn't it legal tender.... & why should cash be refused as such? Oh, it IS legal tender. But that doesn't mean that shops are obliged by law to accept it. Their "logic" is ass-backwards. If a shop only wants to accept credit card payments, or EFTPOS, that's perfectly legal. Yeah well ... I'd only have to be refused once at a business who did that.... then take my business elsewhere. Yep.  You're both within your rights. Personally, it doesn't bother me. It's their business, they can accept whatever they want - wouldn't make me think any less of them.

Yes but if my plans are inconvenienced & it causes me a runaround to address it because of their decision then I'll reconsider doing business there.