Although now decades old as a modern popular cultural phenomenon, is an old idea given a fresh lick of cultural paint - the rebirth of an immanent interventionist god manifesting as an internal guiding force towards optimal outcomes - the universe.

It differs from other manifestations only in that there is no anthropological central figure - e.g. no Jesus or Buddha - just a force that is the entirety of all that is yet, simultaneously, there is nothing that does not contain all of it.

Little to no effort is expended on defining this force - although it is often referred to as 'the One', but with no definition of what 'the One' is.

This lack of definition of the One is an Eastern religious concept, almost totally unknown in the West, where manifestations of god are transcendental, interventionist, and anthropomorphic.

It's not so much that, when faith is lost, people turn to anything, it's more that other ancient concepts of god are rehashed to suit the mood of contemporary culture.

Not surprising. In another topic it was noted that the decline of organised religion in the western world had led to a spiritual vacuum that was being filled by extremist cults like radical Islam and climate hysteria.   

Well the Universe is by vast majority an 'invisible' and unknown quality called 'Dark Energy/Matter'. In other words - Humanity is yet to experience directly the vast majority of the Universe, although it can experience (via light, radiowaves, etc) the small minority and comprehend it to the best of their abilities.

So in essence, this Universal Supreme Entity - still ceases to exist to the senses and technologies of Human consciousness. Scientists with their 'theories' have become as ridiculous in their graspings of understanding, as Stone Age people in their stories and labels in their effort to make sense of stuff ...most of which came from the 'male arse' (fart jokes) which provided the majority of 'story' from around the world's cultures at the time.
Female creates Humans.
Males create bullshyte stories.

So thus, this Universe as a God is a false and failed attempt effort to 'own' something by people.

If anything, the cultures of Africans and even Aborigines would have a more 'nature' orientated embracing of the Universe. Both Western and Eastern, be it One God or Many - cope with 'nature' as a minimum like a small national park or botannical garden inside a big dirty cement city of godliness.

God is the one substance who possesses an infinite number of attributes (ie everything that is),  each expressing an aspect of God's nature.

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3800/3800-h/3800-h.htm

Belgarion wrote on Nov 17^th, 2023 at 8:06am:

Not surprising. In another topic it was noted that the decline of organised religion in the western world had led to a spiritual vacuum that was being filled by extremist cults like radical Islam and climate hysteria.

Where an old 'god' is 'resurrected'; with the earth's ecology imagined as a singular, animate and sentient being, such as Gaia.

Humankind will never be 'free' of a central god concept.

Jasin wrote on Nov 17^th, 2023 at 8:11am:

Well the Universe is by vast majority an 'invisible' and unknown quality called 'Dark Energy/Matter'. In other words - Humanity is yet to experience directly the vast majority of the Universe, although it can experience (via light, radiowaves, etc) the small minority and comprehend it to the best of their abilities.

In the modern religious rendition, 'the universe' is used as a metaphor for 'all that is' - the set of all things, including (mystically), itself.

It's why believers in 'the universe' take so well to quantum theories - to the layperson it appears to allow for a mystical dimension.

I can believe in Gaea (Gaia) easily enough.
Life on this world, is all connected (and traced back to its simplistic  form just beyond the Archean Age) to each other and is both a mechanism and as Humans are a part of that 'nature', our (and Dolphin, Orca, etc) minds and imaginings (consciousness) is also a part of that great Gaea state of being. We are a representation and expression of that consciousness.

Monotheism, tends to put it's 'God' up in the sky and no wonder it was an invisible God that was hard to believe - as human consciousness was both minimal in its experience of anything 'up there', let alone 'unaware' at the time of the innovation of that 'Sky God' up there.

Jasin wrote on Nov 17^th, 2023 at 8:37am:

Monotheism, tends to put it's 'God' up in the sky and no wonder it was an invisible God that was hard to believe - as human consciousness was both minimal in its experience of anything 'up there', let alone 'unaware' at the time of the innovation of that 'Sky God' up there.

You're referring to the concept of a traditional transcendental god, either interventionist or non.

https://youtu.be/X8TiG97za0g?si=6SLAM_U1F31xdN4M

Nihil novi sub sole - nothing new under the sun.

Goes for religion, too.

Modern 'religion' or spirituality, New Age &etc are not new religions, they're just forgotten old ones resurrected from the dead.

That's true.
The only Religion I would call as authentically new in a majority of its ways, although it has sprung from Christianity.
Is Mormonism.

As an American once said to me. "We know Mormonism is crap. But it's 'made in America' and that at least is something great about it."

I'm sure Australia will mix some ingredients and formulate its own version of Religion. Though I tend to think that Southern Hemisphere Religions would empower the Individual and not so much the breeding 'mass' for the poor, etc (and the victims of 'warfare').

I’m betting most posters here have heard of Alan Watts, the man many people credit with almost single-handedly introducing mainstream Americans to Buddhism (particularly Zen Buddhism) in the 1950s and helped spawn and grow in the US, during the 1960s and ‘70s, what became loosely termed western Buddhism.

This injection of Buddhism with its core Eastern beliefs and values led to a complete rethink of religious values in the West, leading to their easternisation, and to movements such as New Age spirituality and to the notion of an immanent universal god-like force that guides 'the enlightened' towards their maximal positive outcomes.

What many may not know is, that while Watts was gifted with prodigious talent and charisma as a communicator, according to his children and those who knew him, he never practised Buddhism.

But what will really shock those who don’t know his personal backstory, Watts was a raving alcoholic who was often drunk, up to staggering, when he gave lectures. However, it takes a keen ear to discern his drunkenness through his lectures.

The man could hold his piss – at least on stage.

His eldest children, Mark, Joan and Anne have revealed in interviews that Alan and his wife, Dorothy, their mother, were both chronic alcoholics who regularly drank themselves into blind states to the point that Watts’ parents intervened and took his daughters to live in England with them to protect them from their parents’ booze-fuelled psychodramas.

Watts later became obsessed with LSD and used it regularly.

When people asked him why he continued to drink to excess, given the toll it had taken on him and his family, he replied, ‘I like myself better when I’m drinking’.

He died in 1973 at 58, most probably, according to his son, Mark, from assisted suicide after he had been diagnosed with cancer,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmscwrJ17Eo

Amy Winehouse's last interview 2 weeks before her death was with a Triple JJJ journalist who described seeing her a broken state of health by drugs and alcohol who had to 'crawl' across the floor in a dingy Club back room. All alone, all of her exploiters and friends had left her.
But when she got on stage, her performance was still exceptional and showed none of that which was apparent in the backstage room.
She died just 2 weeks later.

Jasin wrote on Nov 19^th, 2023 at 9:03am:

Amy Winehouse's last interview 2 weeks before her death was with a Triple JJJ journalist who described seeing her a broken state of health by drugs and alcohol who had to 'crawl' across the floor in a dingy Club back room. All alone, all of her exploiters and friends had left her. But when she got on stage, her performance was still exceptional and showed none of that which was apparent in the backstage room. She died just 2 weeks later.

Well, they tried to make her go to rehab but she said, 'no, no, no'...

Watts would have said the same.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 19^th, 2023 at 9:11am:

Jasin wrote on Nov 19th, 2023 at 9:03am: Amy Winehouse's last interview 2 weeks before her death was with a Triple JJJ journalist who described seeing her a broken state of health by drugs and alcohol who had to 'crawl' across the floor in a dingy Club back room. All alone, all of her exploiters and friends had left her. But when she got on stage, her performance was still exceptional and showed none of that which was apparent in the backstage room. She died just 2 weeks later. Well, they tried to make her go to rehab but she said, 'no, no, no'... Watts would have said the same.

;D

He read, and read everything that came to hand. On coming home, while his valets were still taking off his things, he picked up a book and began to read. From reading he passed to sleeping, from sleeping to gossip in drawing rooms of the club, from gossip to carousals and women; from carousals back to gossip, reading, and wine. Drinking became more and more a physical and also a moral necessity. Though the doctors warned him that with his corpulence wine was dangerous for him, he drank a great deal. He was only quite at ease when having poured several glasses of wine mechanically into his large mouth he felt a pleasant warmth in his body, an amiability toward all his fellows, and a readiness to respond superficially to every idea without probing it deeply. Only after emptying a bottle or two did he feel dimly that the terribly tangled skein of life which previously had terrified him was not as dreadful as he had thought. He was always conscious of some aspect of that skein, as with a buzzing in his head after dinner or supper he chatted or listened to conversation or read. But under the influence of wine he said to himself: “It doesn’t matter. I’ll get it unraveled. I have a solution ready, but have no time now—I’ll think it all out later on!” But the later on never came.

In the morning, on an empty stomach, all the old questions appeared as insoluble and terrible as ever, and Pierre hastily picked up a book, and if anyone came to see him he was glad.

Sometimes he remembered how he had heard that soldiers in war when entrenched under the enemy’s fire, if they have nothing to do, try hard to find some occupation the more easily to bear the danger. To Pierre all men seemed like those soldiers, seeking refuge from life: some in ambition, some in cards, some in framing laws, some in women, some in toys, some in horses, some in politics, some in sport, some in wine, and some in governmental affairs. “Nothing is trivial, and nothing is important, it’s all the same—only to save oneself from it as best one can,” thought Pierre. “Only not to see it, that dreadful it!”
War and Peace, Book 8, chapter 1.

Frank wrote on Nov 20^th, 2023 at 10:53am:

He read, and read everything that came to hand. On coming home, while his valets were still taking off his things, he picked up a book and began to read. From reading he passed to sleeping, from sleeping to gossip in drawing rooms of the club, from gossip to carousals and women; from carousals back to gossip, reading, and wine. Drinking became more and more a physical and also a moral necessity. Though the doctors warned him that with his corpulence wine was dangerous for him, he drank a great deal.

Almost verbatim what Alan Watts' daughters said of him after his death.

Joan Watts grew up thinking the clacking noise from her father's home office was rain. He could drink to oblivion without it interrupting his train of thought as he typed.

Would either of you both take the advice of an intellect based on the suicide and self-destruction of  Alcoholism?

Jasin wrote on Nov 20^th, 2023 at 1:44pm:

Would either of you both take the advice of an intellect based on the suicide and self-destruction of  Alcoholism?

It's a matter of separating the artist from the art.

It's the reason why you should never meet your heroes.

Ha! I didn't expect that one.

Jasin wrote on Nov 20^th, 2023 at 2:51pm:

Ha! I didn't expect that one.

van Gogh is a great example.

van Gogh, the man, was a chronic alcoholic and absynthe abuser. He was a lecherous bastard around women and girls. Was violent when pissed and made a c~nt out of himself whenever he was in a social environment. Was mad and committed to asylums... etc, etc, etc.

It's more likely than not that he did not commit suicide but, as is the story from where he lived, that he was confronted by two teenage boys, whose female relative he was harassing, when one, threatening him with a pistol, accidentally shot him.

But, can you look at, say, 'Starry Night' and not be impressed?

True.
But when it comes to two individuals who create two great works of Art of equal standing.
I would say for history's sake and humanity's - that the 'better person' would be remembered.

But is the price of doing great things justified by 'evil' people of violence, self-abuse, etc?

Jasin wrote on Nov 20^th, 2023 at 3:50pm:

True. But when it comes to two individuals who create two great works of Art of equal standing. I would say for history's sake and humanity's - that the 'better person' would be remembered. But is the price of doing great things justified by 'evil' people of violence, self-abuse, etc?

As artistic preference, (as with preference for a set of religious traditions over others), is subjective, equal standing generally cannot be applied.

When it comes to the creative genius of individuals, in art or religion etc, there's a high chance there will be a price to pay through other personality attributes. It's a common cliche to refer to someone's artistic or creative temperament as a euphemism (or compensation) for their personality flaws, so the price is well-known to most.

Genius is just out of the framework of the merely clever.

Jovial Monk wrote on Nov 21^st, 2023 at 5:18am:

Genius is just out of the framework of the merely clever.

Is it just?
Well, that isn't even 'merely clever'.

Ummm badly phrased.

Genius is much more than being clever.

Imagine how great his artworks would have been if Vincent wasn't so STUFFED UP evil-like.

Jasin wrote on Nov 21^st, 2023 at 2:37pm:

Imagine how great his artworks would have been if Vincent wasn't so STUFFED UP evil-like.

It's likely without his dark side he wouldn't have been an artist at all. What he claimed he wanted from life was to be married and have kids like his brother, Theo.

If you look at van Gogh's most famous art, it's easy to see that his trees, fields, clouds, people, buildings and, metaphorically, the stars are tortured or moulded by the wind

van Gogh painted the wind - an invisible force that moulds and tortures anything it touches - just as dark, invisible, internal forces moulded and tortured van Gogh and likely drove him to paint.

So to be 'creative' - one has to suffer like Vincent who made many suffer him as well??

Hell, with that said. I've heard Charles Manson was a gifted and creative writer while in Gaol. Maybe he was a hidden talent greater than Tolstoy and Twain??

Jasin wrote on Nov 21^st, 2023 at 5:43pm:

So to be 'creative' - one has to suffer like Vincent who made many suffer him as well?? Hell, with that said. I've heard Charles Manson was a gifted and creative writer while in Gaol. Maybe he was a hidden talent greater than Tolstoy and Twain??

Oh, ffs!!

Jasin wrote on Nov 21^st, 2023 at 5:43pm:

Hell, with that said. I've heard Charles Manson was a gifted and creative writer while in Gaol. Maybe he was a hidden talent greater than Tolstoy and Twain??

Maybe he was.

van Goghs troubles did not drive him to kill anyone, just harass the f~ck out of them.

Well he cut his ear off to stop the voices.
Given a chance, he would have cut someone's tongue out to stop them talking as well.
He was 'damaged goods' who could happen to paint as well.

I think it is time to discuss... your philosophy of drug use, as it relates to... artistic endeavour.
Take that Bug Powder Dust Vincent - it's your Naked Lunch.  ;D
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=bug+powder+dust&docid=603500526414416422&mid=C768B3CE3B43368F8B0FC768B3CE3B43368F8B0F&view=detail&FORM=VRAASM&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dbug%2Bpowder%2Bdust%26FORM%3DHDRSC4

Jasin wrote on Nov 21^st, 2023 at 5:51pm:

Well he cut his ear off to stop the voices. Given a chance, he would have cut someone's tongue out to stop them talking as well. He was 'damaged goods' who could happen to paint as well.

Paul Gaugin claimed that, in a drunken stupor, van Gogh had threatened him with the same razor that, a day or two later, he used to cut off his ear.

For Gaugin, enough was enough, and he took off. van Gogh had no memory of what he'd done as he was suffering from alcoholic blackouts and would often have no memory of his carry-on the night before.

One thing's for sure, Don Mclean's rendition of van Gogh the man is far from the truth of the man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxHnRfhDmrk

I never, over the many years, saw Vincent's works as 'smart'.

Jasin wrote on Nov 21^st, 2023 at 6:04pm:

I never, over the many years, saw Vincent's works as 'smart'.

Well, art appreciation like religious affinity, is subjective.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 21^st, 2023 at 6:06pm:

Jasin wrote on Nov 21st, 2023 at 6:04pm: I never, over the many years, saw Vincent's works as 'smart'. Well, art appreciation like religious affinity, is subjective.

But a lot of 'smart' people make a 'lot' of money from Vincent's efforts.

Jasin wrote on Nov 21^st, 2023 at 6:12pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 21st, 2023 at 6:06pm: Jasin wrote on Nov 21st, 2023 at 6:04pm: I never, over the many years, saw Vincent's works as 'smart'. Well, art appreciation like religious affinity, is subjective. But a lot of 'smart' people make a 'lot' of money from Vincent's efforts.

They sure do!

In 1987, Alan Bond bought van Gogh's 'Irises' for US$53.9 million.

At the time it was the most expensive painting ever sold.

How does the line of that song go? 'While American Australian businessman snap up van Goghs for the price of a hospital wing'.

What are they buying? A pictorial description of internal dark forces that torture them?

They are buying prestige.

The zealots of Secularism


The NSW Teachers Federation is sponsoring the first Secularism Australia Conference early next month, featuring “inspirational pro-secular speakers” who will “share their vision for secularism in Australia”.
...
Why on earth is the NSW Teachers Federation – a union with the stated purpose to “protect and improve teachers’ working conditions and salaries, within the public education system” – throwing in its lot with a line-up of speakers whose politics are, let’s just say, hardly centrist?

If a teachers union hosted a conference that featured Pauline Hanson as a speaker, there would be an uproar about the politicisation of the union. It’s no different when you host speakers who include Fiona Patten, Jane Caro and Van Badham.
...
Modern secularism has become untethered from its historical moorings. The separation of church and state is proving harder to abide by when the new secular religion is infused in everything the state does.

Likewise, the fine idea that there should be no religious tests applied to people wanting to hold public office has been turned on its head.

These days you could be squeezed out of a job for holding religious views. It happened to former Essendon chief executive Andrew Thorburn. You could be booted out for not agreeing with trans orthodoxy, for challenging the idea that the “science is settled” about gender transitioning. That happened to former Age columnist Julie Szego.
...

And it’s hard to escape this new religion. While you can’t be forced to go to a church, a synagogue or a mosque, you will find a new class of proselytisers busy imposing their commandments in workplaces, schools, universities, sporting clubs and local councils, and most other institutions. There are new moral rules about diversity and inclusion (which normally mean excluding certain categories of people); about accepting climate “science” (where we are told the science is settled); about gender transitioning; on preferred pronouns; on the definition of a woman; on acceptable forms of humour; on welcomes to country; and so on.

There is nothing wrong with a secular-based moral code. The real question is how it is enforced, how doctrinaire it becomes and how dissenters are dealt with.

We are increasingly told a matter is settled, that certain things must be done and said. If you have a different view, you are not just wrong, you are immoral. In which case you risk being treated as a blasphemer. These secular clergymen and women will describe words and ideas they don’t like as a form of violence to justify new forms of censorship. If you offend a commandment, you will be hounded for an apology, only to discover that the sanctimonious secularists among us don’t believe in redemption.

In Victoria, you risk five or 10 years’ jail for saying a prayer for someone that falls foul of the Change or Suppression (Conversion) Practices Prohibition Act. JK Rowling is not alone in being lynched by online mobs for believing only biological women are women. Comedians are routinely censored for cracking a joke that offends some secular god of wokeness. This year, employees were forced to shut up if they opposed the Indigenous voice.

Public teachers unions are full of these secular activists. They rail against formal religious instruction in public schools while they fully support teachers proselytising their new secular religion in the classroom. It means the core purpose of the teachers union – to advocate for teachers’ pay and conditions – is often sidelined by political zealotry.
Albrechtsen

When secularism reaches the pinnacle of supremacy within a society, it will find itself in a church... And if it doesn't, it'll build one.

This Topic was moved here from Atheism by freediver.