https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DZ6EmlhekM

We're being told to move on, but Dutton and the conservative media wing won't let it go, even after winning?

They did win, right?

Why are they acting like they lost and still crying and shedding tears?

It doesn't make sense.

ProudKangaroo wrote on Oct 19^th, 2023 at 3:50pm:

We're being told to move on, but Dutton and the conservative media wing won't let it go, even after winning? They did win, right? Why are they acting like they lost and still crying and shedding tears? It doesn't make sense.

Of course it does.  The Libs made it all a political game and that game continues.

Aussie wrote on Oct 19^th, 2023 at 4:11pm:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 3:50pm: We're being told to move on, but Dutton and the conservative media wing won't let it go, even after winning? They did win, right? Why are they acting like they lost and still crying and shedding tears? It doesn't make sense. Of course it does.  The Libs made it all a political game and that game continues.

True, I keep forgetting since the expectations on Government now that Labor is in office are so high that there is no increased expectation of the Opposition to go with in.  In fact, the opposite is true.

Unlike all those times we're told "What is Labor's alternative" when they were in opposition, apparently it's fine to just say "No" to things for the Coalition and they can even walk back or abandon any alternatives, if they even offer any, and nobody cares.

As in, they can lie or break promises and it doesn't matter.

Love the media in this country.

Why would trying to squeeze every bit of political advantage, in turn creating the division they're so complaining about, be any different?

Who cares how much Dutton hurts the country so long as it may create a political advantage for him and the Libs...

Aussie wrote on Oct 19^th, 2023 at 4:11pm:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 3:50pm: We're being told to move on, but Dutton and the conservative media wing won't let it go, even after winning? They did win, right? Why are they acting like they lost and still crying and shedding tears? It doesn't make sense. Of course it does.  The Libs made it all a political game and that game continues.

It was always a political game from its outset - One that Albanese played so badly it's hard to imagine he's been playing the political game for decades.

If Albosqueaky & Co had researched properly and got around surveying voters in all states and federal electorates, there wouldn't have been a referendum, they would have decided they can't win. It looks like they didn't go outside their own seats to ask people "yes" or "no"

I think all National party electorates voted "NO". Western Sydney vote "NO". Northern Qld voted "NO", and many others

The "YES" vote was only in radical Lefty seats, and of course Greens

Research and surveys are always key to success, or eminent failure

Remember all the surveys saying we should stop the boats, 84% ... Labor wouldn't stop them, so it took a change of government to stop them

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 19^th, 2023 at 4:28pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 4:11pm: ProudKangaroo wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 3:50pm: We're being told to move on, but Dutton and the conservative media wing won't let it go, even after winning? They did win, right? Why are they acting like they lost and still crying and shedding tears? It doesn't make sense. Of course it does.  The Libs made it all a political game and that game continues. It was always a political game from its outset - One that Albanese played so badly it's hard to imagine he's been playing the political game for decades.

Come on Mr Eckhart!  The history of The Voice going back to Hayseed puts the lie to your silly assertion.  Albanese did what he took to the election and what he took there was ultimately an initiative not of his, but of the black fella.

No need to lie now.  You won!

Aussie wrote on Oct 19^th, 2023 at 4:47pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 4:28pm: Aussie wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 4:11pm: ProudKangaroo wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 3:50pm: We're being told to move on, but Dutton and the conservative media wing won't let it go, even after winning? They did win, right? Why are they acting like they lost and still crying and shedding tears? It doesn't make sense. Of course it does.  The Libs made it all a political game and that game continues. It was always a political game from its outset - One that Albanese played so badly it's hard to imagine he's been playing the political game for decades. Come on Mr Eckhart!  The history of The Voice going back to Hayseed puts the lie to your silly assertion.  Albanese did what he took to the election and what he took there was ultimately an initiative not of his, but of the black fella. No need to lie now.  You won!

Recognition - tick.
Voice- no.


That was obvious for years. But Albo drank the Abo kava potion and believed in the Dreamtime of constitutional establishment of co-sovereignty. What a stupid dilettante Trot.

Aussie wrote on Oct 19^th, 2023 at 4:47pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 4:28pm: Aussie wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 4:11pm: ProudKangaroo wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 3:50pm: We're being told to move on, but Dutton and the conservative media wing won't let it go, even after winning? They did win, right? Why are they acting like they lost and still crying and shedding tears? It doesn't make sense. Of course it does.  The Libs made it all a political game and that game continues. It was always a political game from its outset - One that Albanese played so badly it's hard to imagine he's been playing the political game for decades. Come on Mr Eckhart!  The history of The Voice going back to Hayseed puts the lie to your silly assertion.  Albanese did what he took to the election and what he took there was ultimately an initiative not of his, but of the black fella. No need to lie now.  You won!

Albanese played political poker on this.

He was likely advised it could be a political overreach, given the lack of detail and its clear connection to a greater agenda - being treaty and truth-telling (and possible negotiations on reparations) - as the activists stridently admitted to.

He chose to follow the advice of those activists rather than apply his political experience.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 19^th, 2023 at 5:00pm:

Aussie wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 4:47pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 4:28pm: Aussie wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 4:11pm: ProudKangaroo wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 3:50pm: We're being told to move on, but Dutton and the conservative media wing won't let it go, even after winning? They did win, right? Why are they acting like they lost and still crying and shedding tears? It doesn't make sense. Of course it does.  The Libs made it all a political game and that game continues. It was always a political game from its outset - One that Albanese played so badly it's hard to imagine he's been playing the political game for decades. Come on Mr Eckhart!  The history of The Voice going back to Hayseed puts the lie to your silly assertion.  Albanese did what he took to the election and what he took there was ultimately an initiative not of his, but of the black fella. No need to lie now.  You won! Albanese played political poker on this. He was likely advised it could be a political overreach, given the lack of detail and its clear connection to a greater agenda - being treaty and truth-telling (and possible negotiations on reparations) - as the activists stridently admitted to. He chose to follow the advice of those activists rather than apply his political experience.

You just don't listen do you. 


Quote:

Come on Mr Eckhart!  The history of The Voice going back to Hayseed puts the lie to your silly assertion.  Albanese did what he took to the election and what he took there was ultimately an initiative not of his, but of the black fella.

Is any of that NOT fact?

Aussie wrote on Oct 19^th, 2023 at 5:04pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 5:00pm: Aussie wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 4:47pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 4:28pm: Aussie wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 4:11pm: ProudKangaroo wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 3:50pm: We're being told to move on, but Dutton and the conservative media wing won't let it go, even after winning? They did win, right? Why are they acting like they lost and still crying and shedding tears? It doesn't make sense. Of course it does.  The Libs made it all a political game and that game continues. It was always a political game from its outset - One that Albanese played so badly it's hard to imagine he's been playing the political game for decades. Come on Mr Eckhart!  The history of The Voice going back to Hayseed puts the lie to your silly assertion.  Albanese did what he took to the election and what he took there was ultimately an initiative not of his, but of the black fella. No need to lie now.  You won! Albanese played political poker on this. He was likely advised it could be a political overreach, given the lack of detail and its clear connection to a greater agenda - being treaty and truth-telling (and possible negotiations on reparations) - as the activists stridently admitted to. He chose to follow the advice of those activists rather than apply his political experience. You just don't listen do you.  Quote: Come on Mr Eckhart!  The history of The Voice going back to Hayseed puts the lie to your silly assertion.  Albanese did what he took to the election and what he took there was ultimately an initiative not of his, but of the black fella. Is any of that NOT fact?

Albanese is the Prime Minister; a committee of aboriginal activists is not.

Albanese got this horribly wrong, likely due to his blithe arrogance trumping his political reason.

FMD!


Quote:

Come on Mr Eckhart!  The history of The Voice going back to Hayseed puts the lie to your silly assertion.  Albanese did what he took to the election and what he took there was ultimately an initiative not of his, but of the black fella.

Is any of that NOT fact?

Aussie wrote on Oct 19^th, 2023 at 5:18pm:

FMD! Quote: Come on Mr Eckhart!  The history of The Voice going back to Hayseed puts the lie to your silly assertion.  Albanese did what he took to the election and what he took there was ultimately an initiative not of his, but of the black fella. Is any of that NOT fact?

Playing lawyer poker, eh!

It is a fact that Albanese deferred to Aboriginal activists, ignoring the political risks. It has been political wisdom for decades that referendums in Australia will fail without bipartisan support.

Albanese did not receive bipartisan support but tried it on anyway.

When Hawke did the same thing in the NT with his proposal for a treaty, he changed his mind when it was clear he would not get bipartisan support - the actions of a skilled politician understanding the political environment and mood of parliament - something Albanese either forgot or is not capable of.

Aussie wrote on Oct 19^th, 2023 at 5:18pm:

FMD! Quote: Come on Mr Eckhart!  The history of The Voice going back to Hayseed puts the lie to your silly assertion.  Albanese did what he took to the election and what he took there was ultimately an initiative not of his, but of the black fella. Is any of that NOT fact?

All that shows is that you, like Albanese & co did no/do not know what context & content that Voice  was going to have & how it would be applied.

So stop trying to claim an equally ambiguous concept from back then is a "fact" of any value now.

Are you verballing Shyster?

ProudKangaroo wrote on Oct 19^th, 2023 at 3:50pm:

We're being told to move on, but Dutton and the conservative media wing won't let it go, even after winning? They did win, right? Why are they acting like they lost and still crying and shedding tears? It doesn't make sense.

Crying and shedding tears?  I already said that Dutton was hardly noticed in the campaigns - yet the Yestivites are screeching at how he altered people's minds (Voldemortism was it?) - and Future PM Jacinta Price is hardly 'crying' when demanding and looking for REAL answers to REAL problems for the Aborigines.

It is actually Labor and the Yestivites who are desperately seeking ways to keep their homefires burning... they lost but can't accept that, and yet are accusing the NOtaries of having won but not accepting something or other.... what should they be accepting?  That they won?

That's just stonewalling lead by Labor to refuse to actually address the real issues, but continue to seek THEIR elitist solution.  there was an article this morning that I let go past (doctor's visits) where these YES pundits were up making speeches about rallying the millions who voted YES and keeping up the pressure and seeking ways to get what they want.

Clearly it is the Yestivites who are refusing to accept the outcome...................

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/voice-to-parliament-was-a-radical-constitutional-change/ar-AA1iqpHO?cvid=f7e5be12b64e419286ebdbe344dfacd9&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=4

"IPA Senior Fellow John Roskam says the Voice to Parliament referendum was the most “dramatic, radical constitutional change” we’ve seen.

“What it means is that the overwhelming majority of Australians support the racial equality of all of us,” Mr Roskam told Sky News host Peta Credlin."

ProudKangaroo wrote on Oct 19^th, 2023 at 3:48pm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DZ6EmlhekM

You're crying because the loss has caused you to shyte cubed nuggets .....

you're not a kangaroo .... just a bloody wombat.

ProudKangaroo wrote on Oct 19^th, 2023 at 3:50pm:

We're being told to move on, but Dutton and the conservative media wing won't let it go, even after winning? They did win, right? Why are they acting like they lost and still crying and shedding tears? It doesn't make sense.

1. We are NOT crying NOR are we shedding tears. You tossers who voted YES are very busy doing all that.

2. We are ANGRY though. Why? $4.5 million worth of our taxes was flushed down the loo by a moron of a Prime Minister who was repeatedly warned that the entire idea was a WOFTAM from the get go.

3. THE money used to fund this ridiculous referendum was taken away from other critical and key areas which we all know are starved of funding like Health and Aged Care.

Bottom line? We’re ANGRY because we sat back and watched a reckless and negligent idiot who is masquerading as a Prime Minister make an absolute fool of himself AND all of us because who voted the numbskull into office in the 1st place? That’s right ... we did (not this black duck as I couldn’t move past the thought that  Albo reminded me of a cross btwn a super sook of a mummy’s boy and Captain Binghampton from McHales Navy).

Is this the sad attempt by the Yes-Lefties to crawl away from 'CONSEQUENCE'?
Is this a sad attempt by Sad Kangaroo to crawl away from the fact that he supports the LOSERS WHO WERE ALSO TOTALLY WRONG IN THE FIRST PLACE consequence?

I think so.
Kinda smells like when the Trolls gets hammered on here for being caught out as usual, in their attacks on Members here.
Take John Smith/Mothra's "Five Dogs" episode.

Lest we forget?

HELLLLLLLLLLL NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

The Sooks are now trying for ESCAPISM saying we should all move on and forget about them trying to ruin this country's social fabric and them stealing $450 million from Taxpayers to pay for it.

Albanese "Oh they'll forget about it in a few weeks, when its no longer shown on Television, etc. Butter-bing-butter-boom... easy money!" :P

The Sooks are praying hard for that one.

What we are seeing now, is bitterness and condescention returning to the Left/YES lot.

It started out months ago, when the ridiculous notion of NO voters looked to them like a low percentage, low IQ racist demographic. And they were not reluctant to say it publicly.

But then the YES campaign realised that insults were not winning votes, and they started being all nice-nice and inclusive to their fellow Australians.

Now, all the Leftist platforms are reverting to the same old "up themself" moral superiority they started out with. 

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 19^th, 2023 at 9:10pm:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 3:50pm: We're being told to move on, but Dutton and the conservative media wing won't let it go, even after winning? They did win, right? Why are they acting like they lost and still crying and shedding tears? It doesn't make sense. 1. We are NOT crying NOR are we shedding tears. You tossers who voted YES are very busy doing all that. 2. We are ANGRY though. Why? $4.5 million worth of our taxes was flushed down the loo by a moron of a Prime Minister who was repeatedly warned that the entire idea was a WOFTAM from the get go. 3. THE money used to fund this ridiculous referendum was taken away from other critical and key areas which we all know are starved of funding like Health and Aged Care. Bottom line? We’re ANGRY because we sat back and watched a reckless and negligent idiot who is masquerading as a Prime Minister make an absolute fool of himself AND all of us because who voted the numbskull into office in the 1st place? That’s right ... we did (not this black duck as I couldn’t move past the thought that  Albo reminded me of a cross btwn a super sook of a mummy’s boy and Captain Binghampton from McHales Navy).

You were aware, weren't you Lisa Jones, that 50% of what was spent on this Referendum was part of the forward budgetting arrangements of the Libs?  They had budgetted for a Referendum on this matter but never held one, so 50% of the money spent had already been allocated by your hypocritical mob.

Aussie wrote on Oct 19^th, 2023 at 10:22pm:

You were aware, weren't you Lisa Jones, that 50% of what was spent on this Referendum was part of the forward budgetting arrangements of the Libs?  They had budgetted for a Referendum on this matter but never held one, so 50% of the money spent had already been allocated by your hypocritical mob.

Yeah - well that makes a difference - the government incumbent could have simply canceled that, so it has no relevance.

issuevoter wrote on Oct 19^th, 2023 at 9:45pm:

What we are seeing now, is bitterness and condescention returning to the Left/YES lot. It started out months ago, when the ridiculous notion of NO voters looked to them like a low percentage, low IQ racist demographic. And they were not reluctant to say it publicly. But then the YES campaign realised that insults were not winning votes, and they started being all nice-nice and inclusive to their fellow Australians. Now, all the Leftist platforms are reverting to the same old "up themself" moral superiority they started out with.

Well said.  8-)

Aussie wrote on Oct 19^th, 2023 at 10:22pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 9:10pm: ProudKangaroo wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 3:50pm: We're being told to move on, but Dutton and the conservative media wing won't let it go, even after winning? They did win, right? Why are they acting like they lost and still crying and shedding tears? It doesn't make sense. 1. We are NOT crying NOR are we shedding tears. You tossers who voted YES are very busy doing all that. 2. We are ANGRY though. Why? $4.5 million worth of our taxes was flushed down the loo by a moron of a Prime Minister who was repeatedly warned that the entire idea was a WOFTAM from the get go. 3. THE money used to fund this ridiculous referendum was taken away from other critical and key areas which we all know are starved of funding like Health and Aged Care. Bottom line? We’re ANGRY because we sat back and watched a reckless and negligent idiot who is masquerading as a Prime Minister make an absolute fool of himself AND all of us because who voted the numbskull into office in the 1st place? That’s right ... we did (not this black duck as I couldn’t move past the thought that  Albo reminded me of a cross btwn a super sook of a mummy’s boy and Captain Binghampton from McHales Navy). You were aware, weren't you Lisa Jones, that 50% of what was spent on this Referendum was part of the forward budgetting arrangements of the Libs?  They had budgetted for a Referendum on this matter but never held one, so 50% of the money spent had already been allocated by your hypocritical mob.

Budgets smudgets .... it's never money in the bank.

It's a figure plucked out of the air.

So why did the LNP only budget 50% of what Albanese actually spent?

He's only been in the chair 17 months.

issuevoter wrote on Oct 19^th, 2023 at 9:45pm:

What we are seeing now, is bitterness and condescention returning to the Left/YES lot. It started out months ago, when the ridiculous notion of NO voters looked to them like a low percentage, low IQ racist demographic. And they were not reluctant to say it publicly. But then the YES campaign realised that insults were not winning votes, and they started being all nice-nice and inclusive to their fellow Australians. Now, all the Leftist platforms are reverting to the same old "up themself" moral superiority they started out with.

All except that University Professor who spat in a NO campaigners face.  ;D

Gnads wrote on Oct 20^th, 2023 at 5:45am:

issuevoter wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 9:45pm: What we are seeing now, is bitterness and condescention returning to the Left/YES lot. It started out months ago, when the ridiculous notion of NO voters looked to them like a low percentage, low IQ racist demographic. And they were not reluctant to say it publicly. But then the YES campaign realised that insults were not winning votes, and they started being all nice-nice and inclusive to their fellow Australians. Now, all the Leftist platforms are reverting to the same old "up themself" moral superiority they started out with.  All except that University Professor who spat in a NO campaigners face.  ;D

Has hshe or whatever it is been charged?

ProudKangaroo wrote on Oct 19^th, 2023 at 3:48pm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DZ6EmlhekM

You hypocrites ..... as if you wouldn't have been on here crowing & justifying had the Voice got up. ::)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12649475/The-Voice-days-work-referendum-result.html


Public servants offered five days of paid leave
if they are psychologically distressed by Australia voting against the Voice

By Daily Mail Australia Reporter

Published: 00:25 AEDT, 20 October 2023



Public servants in Queensland have been offered five days of paid leave if they are suffering from psychological distress following the failed Voice referendum.

Leaders in the public sector this week received an email telling them they could grant workers special leave as well as sick leave.

The message, from Public Sector Commissioner David Mackie, called on department bosses to consider the emotional impact the referendum's result would have on indigenous workers. 

He added that the initiative was to ensure staff members remained mentally well.

Albanese made two major errors of judgement:

Rather than a referendum, it should've first been
put to the people as a plebiscite.

From the get-go, Albanese forced the ill-fated
referendum into a partisan vote—Labor v. Liberal.

Additionally, he should never have toured the country
spruiking the YES vote wearing his vote yes tee-shirt.
By all rights, he should've devoted virtually the same
sort of time elaborating the NO vote.  By his actions he
presupposed a positive outcome for his self-defined
referendum, which was overconfident by far, and
totally avoided the NO case—to his political detriment.

Albanese now looks like a weakened, confused,
defocussed politician, who's lucky that a bigger
wanker in the shape of the petty, hateful overbearing
Dutton was his virtual opponent.

(plebiscite:  The direct vote of all the members of an
electorate on an important public question such as a
change in the constitution, but which in itself does not
affect the Constitution.

EG:  "the administration will hold a plebiscite for the
approval of constitutional reforms".)

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 20^th, 2023 at 12:33pm:

Albanese made two major errors of judgement: Rather than a referendum, it should've first been put to the people as a plebiscite. From the get-go, Albanese forced the ill-fated referendum into a partisan vote—Labor v. Liberal. Additionally, he should never have toured the country spruiking the YES vote wearing his vote yes tee-shirt. By all rights, he should've devoted virtually the same sort of time elaborating the NO vote.  By his actions he presupposed a positive outcome for his self-defined referendum, which was overconfident by far, and totally avoided the NO case—to his political detriment. Albanese now looks like a weakened, confused, defocussed politician, who's lucky that a bigger wanker in the shape of the petty, hateful overbearing Dutton was his virtual opponent. (plebiscite:  The direct vote of all the members of an electorate on an important public question such as a change in the constitution, but which in itself does not affect the Constitution. EG:  "the administration will hold a plebiscite for the approval of constitutional reforms".)

Thank you for coming up with an even stupider idea than Albo could manage.  You are Labor Leader material, Guff. Kudos.

Bobby. wrote on Oct 20^th, 2023 at 11:08am:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12649475/The-Voice-days-work-referendum-result.html Public servants offered five days of paid leave if they are psychologically distressed by Australia voting against the Voice.

I read the link with mounting disbelief and anger.

How dare any government spend taxpayer money in
such an absurd and ill-considered way?  Is this the
recently-blonded Palaszczuk's bribe to keep her public
servants on side?

I'm afraid as an older citizen, I'm having trouble coping
with the deranged mindsets of younger politicians and slack
and idle public servant layabouts with their snouts at
the taxpayer trough these days.

If any of them are so easily  psychologically distressed
by the Voice vote's negative result, then maybe they
should be sacked—as being unable to responsibly
carry out their duties?

It highlighted the shortcomings of half-brain thought processes

Labor is dominated by the right side cerebral hemisphere

Liberals are dominated by the left side cerebral hemisphere

To be full-brain, both hemispheres must be used together simultaneously, otherwise big mistakes occur 

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 20^th, 2023 at 12:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 20th, 2023 at 11:08am: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12649475/The-Voice-days-work-referendum-result.html Public servants offered five days of paid leave if they are psychologically distressed by Australia voting against the Voice. I read the link with mounting disbelief and anger. How dare any government spend taxpayer money in such an absurd and ill-considered way?  Is this the recently-blonded Palaszczuk's bribe to keep her public servants on side? I'm afraid as an older citizen, I'm having trouble coping with the deranged mindsets of younger politicians and slack and idle public servant layabouts with their snouts at the taxpayer trough these days. If any of them are so easily  psychologically distressed by the Voice vote's negative result, then maybe they should be sacked—as being unable to responsibly carry out their duties?

But they are so upset.


https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/10/19/14/76753673-12649475-image-a-25_1697721686196.jpg

Frank wrote on Oct 20^th, 2023 at 12:46pm:

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 20th, 2023 at 12:33pm: Albanese made two major errors of judgement: Rather than a referendum, it should've first been put to the people as a plebiscite. From the get-go, Albanese forced the ill-fated referendum into a partisan vote—Labor v. Liberal. Additionally, he should never have toured the country spruiking the YES vote wearing his vote yes tee-shirt. By all rights, he should've devoted virtually the same sort of time elaborating the NO vote.  By his actions he presupposed a positive outcome for his self-defined referendum, which was overconfident by far, and totally avoided the NO case—to his political detriment. Albanese now looks like a weakened, confused, defocussed politician, who's lucky that a bigger wanker in the shape of the petty, hateful overbearing Dutton was his virtual opponent. (plebiscite:  The direct vote of all the members of an electorate on an important public question such as a change in the constitution, but which in itself does not affect the Constitution. EG:  "the administration will hold a plebiscite for the approval of constitutional reforms".) Thank you for coming up with an even stupider idea than Albo could manage.  You are Labor Leader material, Guff. Kudos.

Can you tell me Frank why exactly you think an initial
plebiscite would've been a stupid idea? 

Surely a non-binding vote would've given the government
a far more accurate picture of the mood of the electorate,
but without the stressors and politicisation of a legally-binding
referendum?

If the Voice plebiscite had indicated that the electorate
favoured an Aboriginal Voice, then a referendum could've
been included as part of the next Federal election—at a
fraction of the cost of this Voice failure.

Gnads wrote on Oct 20^th, 2023 at 10:13am:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 3:48pm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DZ6EmlhekM You hypocrites ..... as if you wouldn't have been on here crowing & justifying had the Voice got up. ::)

EXACTLY !!!!

The Battle began when the Lefty-ALP YES ship engaged the hostility to attack the NO People Ship. The Salvo's were first fired by the YES ship to make the NO ship submit.
Eventually it came to blows and the NO Ship obviously won the canon stage and prevailed.
But the YES Ship defiantly did not submit honourably and still refused to accept they were defeated and wrong to have attacked.

So it's now at the stage where the NO ship must pull up aside and board the YES ship and take no prisoners until they surrender. On top of this, the NO ship has discovered that the YES ship are Pirates full of stolen plunder from the people. It's time their booty of $450+ million gets reclaimed by the People of the No ship... and their Captain of the YES ship - to walk the plank.
:D

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 20^th, 2023 at 1:24pm:

Can you tell me Frank why exactly you think an initial plebiscite would've been a stupid idea?

Because it's non binding

For someone who has spent so much time crying about what a waste of money the voice was holding one was, you now want people to vote on it twice? :D :D :D

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 20^th, 2023 at 1:24pm:

Can you tell me Frank why exactly you think an initial plebiscite would've been a stupid idea?

It's a pointless line of attack after the damage has been done.
Let's move on indeed.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 19^th, 2023 at 6:16pm:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Oct 19th, 2023 at 3:50pm: We're being told to move on, but Dutton and the conservative media wing won't let it go, even after winning? They did win, right? Why are they acting like they lost and still crying and shedding tears? It doesn't make sense. Crying and shedding tears?  I already said that Dutton was hardly noticed in the campaigns - yet the Yestivites are screeching at how he altered people's minds (Voldemortism was it?) - and Future PM Jacinta Price is hardly 'crying' when demanding and looking for REAL answers to REAL problems for the Aborigines. It is actually Labor and the Yestivites who are desperately seeking ways to keep their homefires burning... they lost but can't accept that, and yet are accusing the NOtaries of having won but not accepting something or other.... what should they be accepting?  That they won? That's just stonewalling lead by Labor to refuse to actually address the real issues, but continue to seek THEIR elitist solution.  there was an article this morning that I let go past (doctor's visits) where these YES pundits were up making speeches about rallying the millions who voted YES and keeping up the pressure and seeking ways to get what they want. Clearly it is the Yestivites who are refusing to accept the outcome...................

We've accepted the outcome, but you and your ilk are going on and on about it like you lost...

Why so many tears?

Going on an on about it is a good compensation for putting up with it for so long, while other more important things were neglected and ignored.

So lets not 'move on', let's drive the spear home until it comes out the other side.  ;)

Jasin wrote on Oct 20^th, 2023 at 2:54pm:

Going on an on about it is a good compensation for putting up with it for so long, while other more important things were neglected and ignored. So lets not 'move on', let's drive the spear home until it comes out the other side.  ;)

So you don't care about the issue, just owning the libs then?

I mean, we all knew that, but it's refreshing to at least hear you admit it.

But don't ever pretend you care about the needs of Indigenous Australians.  None of you did, this was about you, well, you made it about you.

It wasn't actually about you at all.

But as the new Gold Medal winners of the oppression Olympics, you've become the new Karens and for some reason in victory, the cry babies...

I guess it's hard to stray from your default position.

ProudKangaroo wrote on Oct 20^th, 2023 at 2:59pm:

Jasin wrote on Oct 20th, 2023 at 2:54pm: Going on an on about it is a good compensation for putting up with it for so long, while other more important things were neglected and ignored. So lets not 'move on', let's drive the spear home until it comes out the other side.  ;) So you don't care about the issue, just owning the libs then? I mean, we all knew that, but it's refreshing to at least hear you admit it. But don't ever pretend you care about the needs of Indigenous Australians.  None of you did, this was about you, well, you made it about you. It wasn't actually about you at all. But as the new Gold Medal winners of the oppression Olympics, you've become the new Karens.

;D
Karens are a people in the Cambodia region dude.
It's obvious that you're a Media Lefty noob of the American stupid Media culture.

Oh but I did care for my fellow Australians called Aborigines.
That's why I didn't tick any box, nor accept that $450+ million piece of paper. Because I believed that only them should have voted for 'their' Voice. Because I believed that the ALP were just 'exploiting' the Aborigines with the intrusion of 'their' (ALP's, Leftists) Voice into it as well.

Just bend the knee to me Sad Kangaroo and I'll let you be.  ;)

ProudKangaroo wrote on Oct 20^th, 2023 at 2:16pm:

We've accepted the outcome, but you and your ilk are going on and on about it like you lost... Why so many tears?

Seems that those of you in the parliament have not accepted the outcome, and in a despicable act have refused to hold a Royal Commission into sexual assault and aboriginal financial mismanagement. Seems Labor and their green lackeys would rather enable paedophiles than do as Senator Price and others have requested in a spiteful  punishment for the NO success. 

Belgarion wrote on Oct 20^th, 2023 at 3:19pm:

ProudKangaroo wrote on Oct 20th, 2023 at 2:16pm: We've accepted the outcome, but you and your ilk are going on and on about it like you lost... Why so many tears? Seems that those of you in the parliament have not accepted the outcome, and in a despicable act have refused to hold a Royal Commission into sexual assault and aboriginal financial mismanagement. Seems Labor and their green lackeys would rather enable paedophiles than do as Senator Price and others have requested in a spiteful  punishment for the NO success.

The YES Left/ALP declare the Enemy as the Australian People.
It's getting worse for them and by them.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/after-defeat-the-yes-commentariat-identify-their-true-enemy-the-australian-people/ar-AA1itcVN?ocid=msedgntp&pc=ACTS&cvid=eb030b7ffe3249d68d4a1677bd41b891&ei=10

Lefty Media 'snob' Waleed Aly now uses 'intuition' for his new excuse.  ::)
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/waleed-aly-s-new-reason-for-why-the-yes-campaign-for-an-indigenous-voice-failed-but-it-leaves-out-one-major-claim-from-his-first-explanation/ar-AA1ixuro?ocid=msedgntp&pc=ACTS&cvid=8f924571fa4340c8851eb913ebc1c7d8&ei=10

ALP wants people to forget so he can get away with it all... and the $450+ million.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/a-million-times-this-week-albanese-quickly-moving-debate-to-cost-of-living/ar-AA1ivBOJ?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=ACTS&cvid=ca4d6fd6e9a54743b57837297ab88450&ei=45

How's it goin', leftards?

Well - Waleed the Wally said that the NO voters were simply unable to understand the complexities of the proposal..... you know... that simple, generous, one page offer of 'reconciliation' ... trouble is - we all understood every complexity of the other 26 pages...... but I suppose we are just too stupid to know that..... let alone understand it ...... so now it was so complex in reality that many simply could not come to grips with it..... what happened to simple and straight-forward?

Who pays this turkey??

https://www.skynews.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Document-14-1.pdf

AusGeoff wrote on Oct 20^th, 2023 at 1:24pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 20th, 2023 at 12:46pm: AusGeoff wrote on Oct 20th, 2023 at 12:33pm: Albanese made two major errors of judgement: Rather than a referendum, it should've first been put to the people as a plebiscite. From the get-go, Albanese forced the ill-fated referendum into a partisan vote—Labor v. Liberal. Additionally, he should never have toured the country spruiking the YES vote wearing his vote yes tee-shirt. By all rights, he should've devoted virtually the same sort of time elaborating the NO vote.  By his actions he presupposed a positive outcome for his self-defined referendum, which was overconfident by far, and totally avoided the NO case—to his political detriment. Albanese now looks like a weakened, confused, defocussed politician, who's lucky that a bigger wanker in the shape of the petty, hateful overbearing Dutton was his virtual opponent. (plebiscite:  The direct vote of all the members of an electorate on an important public question such as a change in the constitution, but which in itself does not affect the Constitution. EG:  "the administration will hold a plebiscite for the approval of constitutional reforms".) Thank you for coming up with an even stupider idea than Albo could manage.  You are Labor Leader material, Guff. Kudos. Can you tell me Frank why exactly you think an initial plebiscite would've been a stupid idea?  Surely a non-binding vote would've given the government a far more accurate picture of the mood of the electorate, but without the stressors and politicisation of a legally-binding referendum? If the Voice plebiscite had indicated that the electorate favoured an Aboriginal Voice, then a referendum could've been included as part of the next Federal election—at a fraction of the cost of this Voice failure.

For the purposes of this issue, what is the difference between plebiscite and referendum?
Ask the people if a Voice should be legislated, as with gay marriage? But a Voice is not a re-definition of a fundamental institution like marriage and so voiced had been legislated before.

The flaw here was that Albo went along with a narrow Aboriginal demographic's demand for altering the base law that affects everyone. There should have been a broad constitutional convention first, not just puting to the people what a very narrow Aboriginal aristocracy cooked up. And then misrepresenting those demands at every turn, depending on who was to be hoodwinked: it was both a moral milestone and a very modest, inconsequential gesture, the ultimate salve and 'don't you worry about that'.

The remarkable feature of the pre-referendum debate was the deference of normally independent-minded institutions to the pronouncements of the Aboriginal establishment in the Uluru Statement from the Heart, that asserted the persistence of Aboriginal sovereignty, and demanded treaties between the Australian government and so-called First Nations, plus the rewriting of our history as a story of shame, in addition to a constitutionally entrenched voice. Even though there’s already a substantial industry of Aboriginal consultation, including the National Indigenous Advancement Agency administering a budget of nearly $5bn a year; and there’s little evidence that establishing another Canberra-based body would improve the dire living conditions in the remote settlements that are the source of Aboriginal people’s statistical disadvantage.

And the remarkable aspect of the ultimate result was the extent of voter resistance to the moralising and virtue-signalling from big employers, major sporting bodies, law societies and assorted worthies, such that those invested in First World problems largely voted yes while those invested in real-world problems largely voted no.
...
the indications are that the left-establishment will do its best to subvert and sabotage a vote it regards as morally deficient and try to nullify its effect. On a whole range of issues, such as climate, gender and immigration, there’s a disconnect between an empowered minority, with a tendency to regard dissent as not just wrong but immoral, and all those citizens who are much more pragmatic but whose only say is their vote. In an era when Labor and Liberal MPs seem to have more in common with each other than with the people who vote for them, the challenge for democracy is to ensure voting still makes a difference.
...
There’ll be an understandable tendency not to further upset those dismayed by the result; but it’s actually people’s polite acquiescence in what’s known to be wrong and fear of giving offence to previously discriminated-against minorities that’s allowed identity politics to become so entrenched, such that what was self-evident a generation ago now attracts trigger warnings or worse.
Tony Abbott

What this means is that as a civilised culture not wanting to harm others, our very civilisation has been turned against us - you saw that forty years ago with the advent of the 'feminists' which lead to their never-ending jihad against all things men - the very decency and civilised ways of men actually lead to their own downfall.... while ending over backwards to be good guys, they became entangled in their own morality and were twisted into pretzels.

Now look at the state of the place.... and look at the culture of surrender monkeying on all sides .... if someone so much as jumps up and down about a tiny individual issue, it becomes a major catastrophe for the whole country and all must bow to the solution offered (ever so graciously) by the jumper up and down!!

To give an example - the often dire circumstances of a few in remote communities somehow suddenly becomes a national disaster not created by their own actions and choices - but by society at large which is somehow directly responsible for it all!  Hearken back to the 'oppression' of women by 'the patriarchy' ... same set of lies.  If it were so oppressive how then did they ever manage to claw their way out of their 'dire' condition in life?

The Abos, Queers and all others are just using the same band wagon - and while ever those wielding the power and control continue to surrender monkey to it - at no real cost to themselves (again) - the ordinary people will take it all on the chin and pay for it via their compulsory percentage of tax without hidey-holes for cash.

"Given that around six in ten people voted “no”, former Labor powerbroker Graham Richardson is almost certainly right when he said this week, “there was never a time when there was a glimmer of hope this could get through”.

That’s regardless of the early positive polling, when the debate hadn’t started in earnest.

Australians almost never want to change the constitution, and many would not countenance a proposal that lacked enough detail and accorded one section of the community a particular constitutional place.

To blame lack of bipartisanship, mis/disinformation, and racism is kidding ourselves. The margin was too wide.

To think Peter Dutton’s support could have swung things is a very long stretch. The conservatives would have been divided, whatever Dutton did.

And yes, misleading information and conspiracy theories were flying around. But it’s insulting to suggest that so many voters were just duped.

Kos Samaras is a director of RedBridge, a political consultancy firm that undertakes research, including deep dives to tap people’s attitudes. Samaras is no right winger – he’s a former Labor operative, and a declared “yes” voter. His views on the intense focus on disinformation are worth thinking about.

He tweeted this week:

“Why do some fixate on disinformation when digesting election results?

"1. It avoids self-reflection 2. It assumes everyone is interested in politics 3. It confirms a societal bias that people who do not agree with you are stupid, especially poorer folk 4. Some MPs, some media and the staffer class live separated lives from the lived experience of Australians. It helps to ignore this reality 5. It ignores the real reason disinformation works. It is believed if it aligns with a person’s voting intention and existing biases 6. It avoids having to alter campaign approaches that may force you to empower people who are culturally different 7. It helps with the sudden realisation that you belong to a minority.

"The fixation on disinformation also guarantees repeating the same mistakes next time.”

The Albanese government has legislation on the go to crack down on online “misinformation and disinformation”. But, as critics have pointed out, including constitutional lawyer Anne Twomey, a strong backer of the Voice, this carries significant dangers for freedom of speech. In fighting one problem, we should beware of creating another.

Racism reared its head during the campaign, and that was abhorrent. What proportion of votes racism drove, however, is another matter.

Racism should be always called out. Equally, it should not be exaggerated in the wake of this defeat. To explain the result as fundamentally the product of a racist Australia is likely to add to the despair some Indigenous people are feeling."

Grattan on Friday: Anthony Albanese had good motives but his referendum has done much harm

https://theconversation.com/grattan-on-friday-anthony-albanese-had-good-motives-but-his-referendum-has-done-much-harm-215996

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/indigenous-leaders-break-silence-after-voice-defeat/ar-AA1iAVeB?cvid=616716ac1bed4996ab035b72f34279ba&ocid=winp2fptaskbarhover&ei=5

"Indigenous leaders have warned the mistakes of the past will be repeated after Australians overwhelmingly rejected a proposal to enshrine a voice in the constitution.

In the nation's first referendum in 24 years, the majority of Australians voted 'no' to a constitutional change to establish an advisory body which would have given advice to the government on matters affecting Indigenous people.

Every state turned down the proposal, with the ACT the only jurisdiction to back the 'yes' case.

Devastated First Nations leaders called for a week of silence following the defeat.

In a joint statement breaking their silence, three Northern Territory land councils said the result of the referendum could not be separated from a "deep-seated racism".

"It is fair to say that not everyone who voted 'no' is racist but also fair to say that all racists voted 'no'," the Northern Land Council, Tiwi Land Council and Anindilyakwa Land Council said on Saturday.

"The vitriol and hatred that were part of the campaign existed prior to, but were given licence through the process.

"The overarching theory we are incapable of managing our own affairs is dehumanising and degrading and, most of all, deeply flawed."

Residents in remote NT communities overwhelmingly supported the referendum proposal.

The councils said communities who voted 'yes' were eager to break the shackles of poor government decision-making.
"The mistakes of the past will be continued with the latest mandate," their statement said.

"In effect it is an attempt to silence Aboriginal people which is likely to further disadvantage our communities."

Despite the result, the councils said Indigenous Australians would continue to expect engagement and partnership from government.

"With an eye on the future, we remember in the Northern Territory, we make up 30 per cent of the population, we control 48 per cent of the land and 85 per cent of the coastline," they said.

"We remind the public and we remind politicians, prosperity in this jurisdiction relies on us."

The councils said they would continue to champion the rights of their constituents, particularly those in remote areas."

Ah, yes - the ages old Aboriginal Imperialist Colonialism way of grabbing land and claiming it..... bloody Invaders ...  we might have to breach the Indian Wall they've built... and turn on the lights again in Occupied Australia...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqSg7WO4tT4

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/voice-referendum-yes-campaigner-thomas-mayo-breaks-his-silence-to-reflect-on-the-loss/ar-AA1iALoW?cvid=d4465a152e5d44778ab05e4ed3f81fe4&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=7

Mayo off the reserve bench to make his departing speech...

"Well - as a team we trained hard for this Grand Final... and put in our best effort, but it just wasn't our day..... a couple of refereeing decisions went against us at crucial moments of the game, and the final score of 61-39 doesn't tell the full story of how close this match was in reality.  We'll all take home some valuable lessons from this Grand Final, and we'll certainly be putting in a bigger effort next year...and the year after ... and the year after...... now I'm headed off for a couple of beers with the boys... thanks to all the fans for their support..."

"Coach Mayo - is there anything you think your team could have done differently?"

"Well, we did under-estimate the Champions coming into this match.... and a few small errors in pre-match motivational speeches didn't have the desired effect... we certainly overlooked the intelligent way the opposition would be playing last week and the way they simply over-ran us in the voting......."

Voice  - The Movie


Warwick Thornton:
He was in London during the Voice referendum, and as he voted he had an idea: "I thought, 'The pen that I write yes with, I'm going to steal it from the election commission, and if Australia says no, I'm going to use that pen to write a movie about that day.' And I've kept that pen and I'm writing a movie about that day. And it's an incredibly angry movie."



It will no doubt win all the award even if nobody is going to pay to see it at the movies.

During the Uluru Dialogues and at the national convention our elders, our gerontocracy, said: Let’s focus on the things we have in common, as Australians are born on Aboriginal land, some arrive for new beginnings in Aboriginal land, or seek peace from persecution on Aboriginal land. Australians live here, work here, have children here, die here. We are all tethered to this country.

The research shows that the primary reason for the No vote was that people didn’t want race in the Constitution. Guess what? It’s already in the Constitution. It dominated the discussions for our Constitution in the 1890s and it shaped the laws contained therein – laws of exclusion based on race.

Not everyone sees that – so we simply need to do our best to convey it. Shaming has no place in this effort. Many Australians have had quite enough of the left telling them they are ignorant or bigoted. It’s an approach that yields nothing and persuades no one.

We need to learn how to come together and motivate one another and push for progress without alienating those who aren’t – yet – on our team. The insularity common to so many activist movements is unhelpful. And righteousness is even worse.

Megan Davis
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/how-megan-davis-found-her-voice-after-the-no-vote/news-story/188955b13b6cfa2126999aa95b5bddd8

That's "what was Aboriginal Land, but is now Australian Land in 2024" - a time when a small wandering group cannot lay claim to millions of acres... different strokes - get used to it or just get on with whatever you want and accept the consequences of your own actions and decisions.

Frank wrote on Apr 30^th, 2024 at 11:57am:

Voice  - The Movie Warwick Thornton: He was in London during the Voice referendum, and as he voted he had an idea: "I thought, 'The pen that I write yes with, I'm going to steal it from the election commission, and if Australia says no, I'm going to use that pen to write a movie about that day.' And I've kept that pen and I'm writing a movie about that day. And it's an incredibly angry movie." It will no doubt win all the award even if nobody is going to pay to see it at the movies.

Wonder how a movie showing the opposite would go???

Who the hell is Warwick Thornton? Sounds like a fanatic and a racist to me ...... hater of democracy etc ....

Anyway the voice was a package deal and was rejected by the voters as a package deal..... wait for the next round of elections.... Albo can already feel the cold breath of history on the back of his neck....  like a traveler on a dark and lonely road, afraid to turn his head for fear of seeing what vile and loathsome beast shuffles its way towards Voicedom.....

Turning and turning in the widening gyre   
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere   
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst   
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out   
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert   
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,   
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,   
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it   
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.   
The darkness drops again; but now I know   
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,   
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,   
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43290/the-second-coming