Let’s go through the positives. Are there any?

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 7^th, 2023 at 4:16pm:

Let’s go through the positives. Are there any?

Not out in the bush, unless it's a hybrid, but not sure about those either

Bias_2012 wrote on Sep 7^th, 2023 at 4:30pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 7th, 2023 at 4:16pm: Let’s go through the positives. Are there any? Not out in the bush, unless it's a hybrid, but not sure about those either

Good point.

What about financial benefits. Are there any?

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 7^th, 2023 at 4:16pm:

Let’s go through the positives. Are there any?

None that i can see.

In hot or cold weather the range is considerably shorter. It uses battery power to run AC and heater.

Lithium batteries only last 2000-3000 cycles doesn't matter if it's phone laptop car or home lithium battery.

Expensive to buy they will be off to scrapyard before 10 years old.

Toyota is the only brand if hybrid is what you want. Toyota have a lot of experience with these going back to Prius.

You would think that these car owners are the pioneers of changing power sources for transport vehicles. In ten years time, you would think that electric vehicles would be the main vehicles on the road. The drying oil fields won't be around forever for the oil produced to be turned into petrol.

Status seeking.

i am seeing increasingly more and more of them on roads

prior to about a year ago i only ever saw electric cars once every couple of weeks but now i probably see at least one every time i go out

i wonder how long lived the batteries are in them and whether they will need to be replaced at great expense in a relatively quick period of time

Considering Electricity Bills for a House are expensive as it is.
Won't be long before people will be charging their cars for just as much.

Violet Crumble wrote on Sep 8^th, 2023 at 8:48pm:

Status seeking.

aww Master Crumble is coming out of his hidey hole

JC Denton wrote on Sep 8^th, 2023 at 10:25pm:

i am seeing increasingly more and more of them on roads prior to about a year ago i only ever saw electric cars once every couple of weeks but now i probably see at least one every time i go out i wonder how long lived the batteries are in them and whether they will need to be replaced at great expense in a relatively quick period of time

More and more electric cars are appearing on our roads and in multi storey public car parks.

Electric cars are heavier than petrol run cars. Fact. Over time electric cars will cause more wear and tear on our roads and pretty much on any surface they move/park on.

These surfaces will require more frequent maintenance/upgrades.

The extra costs to maintain our roads and car parking stations will require more $$$.

I can already see that this $$$ will at some stage be required of those who own electric cars.

Bottom line? I think a new tax is en route. And this new tax is going to be aimed at anyone who owns an electric car.

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 9^th, 2023 at 9:58pm:

JC Denton wrote on Sep 8th, 2023 at 10:25pm: i am seeing increasingly more and more of them on roads prior to about a year ago i only ever saw electric cars once every couple of weeks but now i probably see at least one every time i go out i wonder how long lived the batteries are in them and whether they will need to be replaced at great expense in a relatively quick period of time More and more electric cars are appearing on our roads and in multi storey public car parks. Electric cars are heavier than petrol run cars. Fact. Over time electric cars will cause more wear and tear on our roads and pretty much on any surface they move/park on. These surfaces will require more frequent maintenance/upgrades. The extra costs to maintain our roads and car parking stations will require more $$$. I can already see that this $$$ will at some stage be required of those who own electric cars. Bottom line? I think a new tax is en route. And this new tax is going to be aimed at anyone who owns an electric car.

A new electric car tax is inevitable. They avoid petrol excise and GST which is a tax on a tax.

Might get a new ZR hybrid sedan for city run around. 4L per 100km. The CVT auto can have problems Toyota give it a proper 1st gear which is stronger. Servicing is pretty cheap might even let them do it.

https://www.toyota.com.au/corolla/sedan

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 9^th, 2023 at 11:23pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 9th, 2023 at 9:58pm: JC Denton wrote on Sep 8th, 2023 at 10:25pm: i am seeing increasingly more and more of them on roads prior to about a year ago i only ever saw electric cars once every couple of weeks but now i probably see at least one every time i go out i wonder how long lived the batteries are in them and whether they will need to be replaced at great expense in a relatively quick period of time More and more electric cars are appearing on our roads and in multi storey public car parks. Electric cars are heavier than petrol run cars. Fact. Over time electric cars will cause more wear and tear on our roads and pretty much on any surface they move/park on. These surfaces will require more frequent maintenance/upgrades. The extra costs to maintain our roads and car parking stations will require more $$$. I can already see that this $$$ will at some stage be required of those who own electric cars. Bottom line? I think a new tax is en route. And this new tax is going to be aimed at anyone who owns an electric car. A new electric car tax is inevitable. They avoid petrol excise and GST which is a tax on a tax. Might get a new ZR hybrid sedan for city run around. 4L per 100km. The CVT auto can have problems Toyota give it a proper 1st gear which is stronger. Servicing is pretty cheap might even let them do it. https://www.toyota.com.au/corolla/sedan

No. I’ve been researching hybrid cars. These are just as heavy as electric cars AND they currently avoid excise tax.

The tax on electric cars will no doubt include hybrid cars. It will probably be marketed in such a way as to avoid APPEARING as an excise tax.

Note : My post is referring to NSW as (I live in that state lol) it represents 40% of Australia’s population.

The other thing re electric cars which I’m now finding out is that you’re up for luxury tax AND electric cars are expensive to insure (most probably because they’re being written off more easily).

Bottom line : I think I might stall the electric car purchase and wait and see what happens next. I’m pretty sure the sh1t will hit the fan with these cars as they are going to prove to be expensive to buy AND expensive to register AND expensive to insure.

Another thing which doesn’t sit comfortably with me is this: so many electric cars are being written off even for small scale accidents. Ok so where are these written off electric cars? They’re either taking a lot of space in some huge junk yard somewhere OR they’re being “quietly” reconditioned and resold as second hand electric cars elsewhere with SFA km on the odometer.

I honestly can’t find anything much to pull me in the direction of buying an electric car. I was hoping this topic might attract those of you who have bought one so I can ask a few more questions. It looks as though we’re all being cautious. Yes?

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 10^th, 2023 at 8:40am:

[quote author=Baronvonrort link=1694067395/10#10 date=1694265829]...I honestly can’t find anything much to pull me in the direction of buying an electric car. I was hoping this topic might attract those of you who have bought one so I can ask a few more questions. It looks as though we’re all being cautious. Yes?

I'd agree;  caution is the keyword with most Aussies
and electric vehicles.

At my age, there's no way I'll ever be buying one of
these rare metals, resource-heavy vehicles.  And of
course the cost premium of purchase has to be a major
consideration for someone (like me) on a very limited
budget.

Currently the cheapest EV in Australia is MG Motor’s
ZS SUV, which goes for $44,990 drive away.  MG Motor
also come up tops with the ultimate cheap petrol-powered
car, its 1.5-litre four-cylinder petrol MG 3 Core, which
comes in at $18,990 drive away.

Is that additional $26,000 worth it to me in order to
encourage me to purchase an EV? 

Of course not.   No way.

AusGeoff wrote on Sep 10^th, 2023 at 6:48pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 10th, 2023 at 8:40am: ..I honestly can’t find anything much to pull me in the direction of buying an electric car. I was hoping this topic might attract those of you who have bought one so I can ask a few more questions. It looks as though we’re all being cautious. Yes? I'd agree;  caution is the keyword with most Aussies and electric vehicles. At my age, there's no way I'll ever be buying one of these rare metals, resource-heavy vehicles.  And of course the cost premium of purchase has to be a major consideration for someone (like me) on a very limited budget. Currently the cheapest EV in Australia is MG Motor’s ZS SUV, which goes for $44,990 drive away.  MG Motor also come up tops with the ultimate cheap petrol-powered car, its 1.5-litre four-cylinder petrol MG 3 Core, which comes in at $18,990 drive away. Is that additional $26,000 worth it to me in order to encourage me to purchase an EV?  Of course not.   No way.

Exactly. Now factor in that our cars are a depreciating item you’d have to be crazy to opt for the electric version of that car.

I honestly feel we ought to hold back and see what happens next wrt electric cars. I foresee lots of issues and challenges ....of the high cost variety.

I'm afraid this is the future of the electric car.



https://i.postimg.cc/MZtQq7h2/electriccar.jpg

As I predicted since the road tax included in the price of motor fuels isn't included in the cost to charge these vehicles an annual surcharge per mile driven is proposed in the US. It will cost owners more per mile to go electric.

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 10^th, 2023 at 8:40am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 9th, 2023 at 11:23pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 9th, 2023 at 9:58pm: JC Denton wrote on Sep 8th, 2023 at 10:25pm: i am seeing increasingly more and more of them on roads prior to about a year ago i only ever saw electric cars once every couple of weeks but now i probably see at least one every time i go out i wonder how long lived the batteries are in them and whether they will need to be replaced at great expense in a relatively quick period of time More and more electric cars are appearing on our roads and in multi storey public car parks. Electric cars are heavier than petrol run cars. Fact. Over time electric cars will cause more wear and tear on our roads and pretty much on any surface they move/park on. These surfaces will require more frequent maintenance/upgrades. The extra costs to maintain our roads and car parking stations will require more $$$. I can already see that this $$$ will at some stage be required of those who own electric cars. Bottom line? I think a new tax is en route. And this new tax is going to be aimed at anyone who owns an electric car. A new electric car tax is inevitable. They avoid petrol excise and GST which is a tax on a tax. Might get a new ZR hybrid sedan for city run around. 4L per 100km. The CVT auto can have problems Toyota give it a proper 1st gear which is stronger. Servicing is pretty cheap might even let them do it. https://www.toyota.com.au/corolla/sedan No. I’ve been researching hybrid cars. These are just as heavy as electric cars AND they currently avoid excise tax. The tax on electric cars will no doubt include hybrid cars. It will probably be marketed in such a way as to avoid APPEARING as an excise tax. Note : My post is referring to NSW as (I live in that state lol) it represents 40% of Australia’s population. The other thing re electric cars which I’m now finding out is that you’re up for luxury tax AND electric cars are expensive to insure (most probably because they’re being written off more easily). Bottom line : I think I might stall the electric car purchase and wait and see what happens next. I’m pretty sure the sh1t will hit the fan with these cars as they are going to prove to be expensive to buy AND expensive to register AND expensive to insure. Another thing which doesn’t sit comfortably with me is this: so many electric cars are being written off even for small scale accidents. Ok so where are these written off electric cars? They’re either taking a lot of space in some huge junk yard somewhere OR they’re being “quietly” reconditioned and resold as second hand electric cars elsewhere with SFA km on the odometer. I honestly can’t find anything much to pull me in the direction of buying an electric car. I was hoping this topic might attract those of you who have bought one so I can ask a few more questions. It looks as though we’re all being cautious. Yes?

The Corolla hybrid is 20 Kg heavier than petrol car. Don't know about other brands.
https://www.toyota.com.au/-/media/toyota/main-site/vehicle-hubs/corolla/files/20230606_corolla-sedan_spec-sheet.pdf

It should be noted the tow bar option is not available with Toyota hybrid.

The electric engine in a Tesla weighs more than the Holden V8 in my Torana.  :o

Tesla doesn't sell spare parts if it needs to be fixed has to go back to Tesla. Insuring them is difficult i hear Tesla do their own insurance. If a Tesla is written off unlikely to be rebuilt by anyone else Tesla will disable supercharger function so can't be recharged with Tesla supercharger. I don't like how Tesla can change settings over internet without telling you.

Electric cars will depreciate quickly as time goes by battery replacement will be very expensive.

If you're happy to throw it away after 7-8 years and buy another one they might appeal to those who waste money on cars.

I wouldn't buy one and if i had one i would sell it before warranty expired.

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 12^th, 2023 at 12:25am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 10th, 2023 at 8:40am: Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 9th, 2023 at 11:23pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 9th, 2023 at 9:58pm: JC Denton wrote on Sep 8th, 2023 at 10:25pm: i am seeing increasingly more and more of them on roads prior to about a year ago i only ever saw electric cars once every couple of weeks but now i probably see at least one every time i go out i wonder how long lived the batteries are in them and whether they will need to be replaced at great expense in a relatively quick period of time More and more electric cars are appearing on our roads and in multi storey public car parks. Electric cars are heavier than petrol run cars. Fact. Over time electric cars will cause more wear and tear on our roads and pretty much on any surface they move/park on. These surfaces will require more frequent maintenance/upgrades. The extra costs to maintain our roads and car parking stations will require more $$$. I can already see that this $$$ will at some stage be required of those who own electric cars. Bottom line? I think a new tax is en route. And this new tax is going to be aimed at anyone who owns an electric car. A new electric car tax is inevitable. They avoid petrol excise and GST which is a tax on a tax. Might get a new ZR hybrid sedan for city run around. 4L per 100km. The CVT auto can have problems Toyota give it a proper 1st gear which is stronger. Servicing is pretty cheap might even let them do it. https://www.toyota.com.au/corolla/sedan No. I’ve been researching hybrid cars. These are just as heavy as electric cars AND they currently avoid excise tax. The tax on electric cars will no doubt include hybrid cars. It will probably be marketed in such a way as to avoid APPEARING as an excise tax. Note : My post is referring to NSW as (I live in that state lol) it represents 40% of Australia’s population. The other thing re electric cars which I’m now finding out is that you’re up for luxury tax AND electric cars are expensive to insure (most probably because they’re being written off more easily). Bottom line : I think I might stall the electric car purchase and wait and see what happens next. I’m pretty sure the sh1t will hit the fan with these cars as they are going to prove to be expensive to buy AND expensive to register AND expensive to insure. Another thing which doesn’t sit comfortably with me is this: so many electric cars are being written off even for small scale accidents. Ok so where are these written off electric cars? They’re either taking a lot of space in some huge junk yard somewhere OR they’re being “quietly” reconditioned and resold as second hand electric cars elsewhere with SFA km on the odometer. I honestly can’t find anything much to pull me in the direction of buying an electric car. I was hoping this topic might attract those of you who have bought one so I can ask a few more questions. It looks as though we’re all being cautious. Yes? The Corolla hybrid is 20 Kg heavier than petrol car. Don't know about other brands. https://www.toyota.com.au/-/media/toyota/main-site/vehicle-hubs/corolla/files/20230606_corolla-sedan_spec-sheet.pdf It should be noted the tow bar option is not available with Toyota hybrid. The electric engine in a Tesla weighs more than the Holden V8 in my Torana.  :o Tesla doesn't sell spare parts if it needs to be fixed has to go back to Tesla. Insuring them is difficult i hear Tesla do their own insurance. If a Tesla is written off unlikely to be rebuilt by anyone else Tesla will disable supercharger function so can't be recharged with Tesla supercharger. I don't like how Tesla can change settings over internet without telling you. Electric cars will depreciate quickly as time goes by battery replacement will be very expensive. If you're happy to throw it away after 7-8 years and buy another one they might appeal to those who waste money on cars. I wouldn't buy one and if i had one i would sell it before warranty expired.

I’m suddenly feeling very relieved/blessed/safe that we didn’t follow the sheeple around us in buying one. Seriously ... what a waste of money. If anything it’s making me wonder WHICH names appear as the major pushers/shareholders in electric car technology. I bet they’re the same well known global names we’ve seen before ... you know the ones I’m referring to...they sit at the top of the apex of marketing BS in order to sell something only an idiot would waste their money on.

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 12^th, 2023 at 7:51am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 12th, 2023 at 12:25am: Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 10th, 2023 at 8:40am: Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 9th, 2023 at 11:23pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 9th, 2023 at 9:58pm: JC Denton wrote on Sep 8th, 2023 at 10:25pm: i am seeing increasingly more and more of them on roads prior to about a year ago i only ever saw electric cars once every couple of weeks but now i probably see at least one every time i go out i wonder how long lived the batteries are in them and whether they will need to be replaced at great expense in a relatively quick period of time More and more electric cars are appearing on our roads and in multi storey public car parks. Electric cars are heavier than petrol run cars. Fact. Over time electric cars will cause more wear and tear on our roads and pretty much on any surface they move/park on. These surfaces will require more frequent maintenance/upgrades. The extra costs to maintain our roads and car parking stations will require more $$$. I can already see that this $$$ will at some stage be required of those who own electric cars. Bottom line? I think a new tax is en route. And this new tax is going to be aimed at anyone who owns an electric car. A new electric car tax is inevitable. They avoid petrol excise and GST which is a tax on a tax. Might get a new ZR hybrid sedan for city run around. 4L per 100km. The CVT auto can have problems Toyota give it a proper 1st gear which is stronger. Servicing is pretty cheap might even let them do it. https://www.toyota.com.au/corolla/sedan No. I’ve been researching hybrid cars. These are just as heavy as electric cars AND they currently avoid excise tax. The tax on electric cars will no doubt include hybrid cars. It will probably be marketed in such a way as to avoid APPEARING as an excise tax. Note : My post is referring to NSW as (I live in that state lol) it represents 40% of Australia’s population. The other thing re electric cars which I’m now finding out is that you’re up for luxury tax AND electric cars are expensive to insure (most probably because they’re being written off more easily). Bottom line : I think I might stall the electric car purchase and wait and see what happens next. I’m pretty sure the sh1t will hit the fan with these cars as they are going to prove to be expensive to buy AND expensive to register AND expensive to insure. Another thing which doesn’t sit comfortably with me is this: so many electric cars are being written off even for small scale accidents. Ok so where are these written off electric cars? They’re either taking a lot of space in some huge junk yard somewhere OR they’re being “quietly” reconditioned and resold as second hand electric cars elsewhere with SFA km on the odometer. I honestly can’t find anything much to pull me in the direction of buying an electric car. I was hoping this topic might attract those of you who have bought one so I can ask a few more questions. It looks as though we’re all being cautious. Yes? The Corolla hybrid is 20 Kg heavier than petrol car. Don't know about other brands. https://www.toyota.com.au/-/media/toyota/main-site/vehicle-hubs/corolla/files/20230606_corolla-sedan_spec-sheet.pdf It should be noted the tow bar option is not available with Toyota hybrid. The electric engine in a Tesla weighs more than the Holden V8 in my Torana.  :o Tesla doesn't sell spare parts if it needs to be fixed has to go back to Tesla. Insuring them is difficult i hear Tesla do their own insurance. If a Tesla is written off unlikely to be rebuilt by anyone else Tesla will disable supercharger function so can't be recharged with Tesla supercharger. I don't like how Tesla can change settings over internet without telling you. Electric cars will depreciate quickly as time goes by battery replacement will be very expensive. If you're happy to throw it away after 7-8 years and buy another one they might appeal to those who waste money on cars. I wouldn't buy one and if i had one i would sell it before warranty expired. I’m suddenly feeling very relieved/blessed/safe that we didn’t follow the sheeple around us in buying one. Seriously ... what a waste of money. If anything it’s making me wonder WHICH names appear as the major pushers/shareholders in electric car technology. I bet they’re the same well known global names we’ve seen before ... you know the ones I’m referring to...they sit at the top of the apex of marketing BS in order to sell something only an idiot would waste their money on.

Are you a Scientologist?

The ICE is on it's way out, but not as fast as people probably think.

Leccy cars are still a novelty and if serious amounts of people switched to them the power grid would probably crash, and forget about trying to get on a public charger.

I reckon the best idea would be to pivot to hydrogen, not fuel cell but hydrogen ICE.

You could have both nuke and solar plants using excess energy to make hydrogen.

This is a pretty good reason NOT to buy an electric vehicle...

A failed electric vehicle battery has caused a fire at Sydney
Airport, destroying five cars.

          https://i.postimg.cc/tgMTLXwM/d7e9e94f70e37a7bbf13d5d4cef72d96-1.jpg

Superintendent Adam Dewberry from Fire and Rescue
NSW said that while battery fires were not uncommon,
electric vehicles were not a concern for authorities.

Superintendent Dewberry said the incident could have
been much worse.



"The aviation team were on the scene very quickly and
able to get on top of this fire. Even with the close
proximity they are to the fire... it spread fairly quickly."

A fire and rescue team monitored the battery overnight,
before handing the scene back to airport investigators.

In cases of a lithium-ion battery fire firefighters will
cool down the battery and place it in a container
with water to stop re-ignitions.

OMG!!! 😮

Dear God! The above article refers to something which happened today!

Here’s another link related to the above event  👇

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12507659/Electric-car-battery-fire-Sydney-Airport.html

Part of this article states there were 431 lithium battery fire incidents in Australia last year.

In Australia last year alone there were 180 lithium battery fires reported in NSW, 120 in Victoria, 72 in Queensland and 59 in WA.

Faulty or poor quality batteries can ignite while charging but they can also catch fire when they are are not even plugged in.

As a user of multiple lithium-ion cells, I've seen
numerous, cheaply made, Chinese knock-off
imports of safe, name-brand products such as
Sony, LG or Samsung.

Too many of these cells—usually designated as
18650, diameter x length—are what's known as
"unprotected", lacking safety features that prevent
overcharging, over-discharging, or short circuits.

If you're paying only $1.50 per cell on Alibaba or
Fishpond then you're buying potential trouble.

Tesla uses 7,104 Panasonic 18650s in their S and
X model battery packs.  Which makes it critical
for them to be a protected brand name.  If even
one of those cells shorts out, then the entire pack
can suffer a thermal runaway, which makes the
ensuing fire almost impossible to extinguish.

AusGeoff wrote on Sep 13^th, 2023 at 2:17am:

As a user of multiple lithium-ion cells, I've seen numerous, cheaply made, Chinese knock-off imports of safe, name-brand products such as Sony, LG or Samsung. Too many of these cells—usually designated as 18650, diameter x length—are what's known as "unprotected", lacking safety features that prevent overcharging, over-discharging, or short circuits. If you're paying only $1.50 per cell on Alibaba or Fishpond then you're buying potential trouble. Tesla uses 7,104 Panasonic 18650s in their S and X model battery packs.Which makes it critical for them to be a protected brand name.  If even one of those cells shorts out, then the entire pack can suffer a thermal runaway, which makes the ensuing fire almost impossible to extinguish.

😳😳😳😳😳😳😳

Dear God!

These are used in watches etc. And aren’t they all made in bloody China?

Also if (for whatever reason) China chooses to make these cells unavailable ... then how can electric cars function?

As I see it .... we’re at the mercy of China who is in control once again 😩

Edit : FMD I was right! Forget the Japanese brand name PANASONIC. Read what’s been going on since 2017 👇

https://eepower.com/news/panasonic-opens-automotive-li-ion-factory-in-china/#:~:text=Panasonic%20Corporation%20held%20an%20opening,cell%20production%20site%20in%20China.

Look at the trillions China has been making in lithium cell production for the past 6 plus years. We’ve been taken for fools!

Not another massive battery fire?


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-12/sydney-airport-lithium-ion-battery-causes-fire/102846146


Electric vehicle battery causes fire at Sydney Airport, destroys five cars


By Maryanne Taouk
Posted 14h ago

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/09/12/07/75322779-12507659-image-m-14_1694500117083.jpg



Five cars have been destroyed after a lithium-ion battery
exploded at Sydney Airport on Monday night.


Key points:

    A detached EV battery has been confirmed as the source of the fire
    Fire and rescue crews attended the scene under the control tower at Sydney Airport
    Authorities have monitored the battery overnight in case of a spark-up

Fire and Rescue NSW and the Aviation Rescue Firefighting Service battled the blaze which broke out under the control tower on the southern end of Airport Drive in Mascot.

Firefighters confirmed sparks spread from a detached lithium-ion battery from a luxury car to four nearby cars parked at the airport about 8:30pm.

Superintendent Adam Dewberry from Fire and Rescue NSW said that while battery fires were not uncommon, electric vehicles were not a concern for authorities.

Always let the guinea pigs of new technology show us how sucked in they are.

Electric cars must be the first choice of white supremacists.

If I REALLY wanted to see sɹǝƃƃᴉu suffer, I'd go out and buy a few.

‘Like slave and master’: DRC miners toil for 30p an hour to fuel electric cars
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/nov/08/cobalt-drc-miners-toil-for-30p-an-hour-to-fuel-electric-cars

https://i.ibb.co/qWymgvW/Untitled.jpg

Australia is the world's biggest supplier of lithium:

   Currently, the biggest mines...

Greenbushes, Western Australia, owned by Talison
Lithium.  Current production capacity at 1.34 million
tonnes a year of chemical-grade and technical-grade
lithium concentrate.

Pilgangoora, Western Australia, owned by Pilbara
Minerals produces 360,000 to 380,000 tonnes of
spodumene (8% lithium) concentrate per annum,
with two expansions underway that will increase
production capacity to 1,000,000 tonnes per annum.

Mt Cattlin, Western Australia,produced 194,000 tonnes
of spodumene concentrate last year.

Mount Marion, Western Australia, owned by Mineral
Resources Ltd was on track to produce 450,000 to
600,000 tonnes of spodumene as of August 2022,
with a targeted expansion to 900,000 tonnes per
annum from July this year.

   Also...

Australia holds 1.5 million tonnes of the global cobalt
reserves, in second place to the DRC, which holds 50%
of the known global reserve with 3.6 million tonnes.

Jasin wrote on Sep 13^th, 2023 at 12:47pm:

Always let the guinea pigs of new technology show us how sucked in they are.

Yep what I always thought too.
And they pay premium price too!
Sad in a way though, it’s still people’s hard earned money and lives that suffer. Too trusting. More discernment would help.

I’m not the least bit interesting in electric vehicles.
There are, and were, and will be better options. Sketched history of it has proved it but overlooked for the almighty quick dollar and control.
Imagine if we ran our vehicles with H2O… oh oops that’s right… it did try to get through … but repressed.

Sophia wrote on Sep 13^th, 2023 at 9:23pm:

Jasin wrote on Sep 13th, 2023 at 12:47pm: Always let the guinea pigs of new technology show us how sucked in they are. Yep what I always thought too. And they pay premium price too! Sad in a way though, it’s still people’s hard earned money and lives that suffer. Too trusting. More discernment would help. I’m not the least bit interesting in electric vehicles. There are, and were, and will be better options. Sketched history of it has proved it but overlooked for the almighty quick dollar and control. Imagine if we ran our vehicles with H2O… oh oops that’s right… it did try to get through … but repressed.

It only takes 1 in say 300 batteries to fail and the whole lot will go up in smoke -
each little battery is like a grenade -
and water won't put the fire out -
water reacts with Lithium to make Hydrogen and the fire gets worse.
The technology is too new -
they need sensors on every battery to detect any fault and shut it down -
but they only have maybe one sensor to cover 300 batteries
so the system doesn't know if there's a crook battery
and keeps on charging it until it catches fire.

Stuff electric cars - I don't want one.

Check out this video of an electric vehicle fire in the UK
last year... and be very concerned. 

Imagine if this double-decker bus had been in service with
50 passengers on board.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnNqBgOeCUQ&t=128s&ab_channel=ABCNews%28Australia%29

Gordon wrote on Sep 12^th, 2023 at 12:11pm:

The ICE is on it's way out, but not as fast as people probably think. Leccy cars are still a novelty and if serious amounts of people switched to them the power grid would probably crash, and forget about trying to get on a public charger. I reckon the best idea would be to pivot to hydrogen, not fuel cell but hydrogen ICE. You could have both nuke and solar plants using excess energy to make hydrogen.

The governments in some places will ban new ICE which means people who can't afford electric will be using public transport if it's available.

The grid can barely handle peak loads as it is certainly will crash if everyone has to go electric.

Hydrogen ICE has storage problems.
If it's stored as gas tanks will be huge to get decent range so not likely. If it's liquid tanks can be much smaller has to be cooled to - 250C then the tank vents hydrogen to atmosphere as it heats up. BMW make H ICE they have warning it can't be parked inside due to tank venting. They claim to have a system which grabs Oxygen atom to convert H gas into water which leaves you with wet garage floor.

Fuel cells are probably the only viable gas Hydrogen alternative at this stage they don't need liquid H.

There is Aussie University who invented solar hydrogen from water we will probably need nuclear or more hydro (not pumped BS) to give reliable power.

We could have weaned ourselves off Arab oil by using LPG which is a lot cleaner. Howard started taxing the F^#k out of it which pushed people away. We sell it to China at giveaway prices.

Looking at new cars to update daily driver it's down to Corolla hybrid or WRX.

Two years until the deisel ban in 5 cities. I doubt anyone on Ozpol remembers the days when cities had to ban coal burning because it was killing people, but you cannot see deisel fumes. Take a look at city buildings, especially stone masonary, its stained black and has to be steam cleaned which erodes the surface. Same with statues and monuments. We breath that stuff. EVs are not the problem, they are better in many ways than ICE vehicles. Its battery technology that needs to change. I believe it will, but I don't see how we can make the change on renewable alone.

However, the military is not going electric.

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/four-of-the-worlds-biggest-cities-to-ban-diesel-by-2025-105008/

Hydrogen is problematic as a fuel. Due to the small size of the molecules it escapes at all stages of production, storage, distribution and use.

Large scale leaking of hydrogen will cause problems.

You might think:

2H2 + O2 ——> 2H2O

But this reaction will also happen:

H2 + 2OH ——> 2H2O

The hydroxyl ion will be removed from the atmosphere and the hydroxyl ion is the “detergent” of the atmosphere.



I remember backyard incinerators being banned and solid combustion heaters. All I remember of coal is Mum putting out newspapers for the coal men to walk on when they delivered bag after bag of coal—Holland early to mid 1950s.

A Tesla Model Y battery has a mass of  770kg,
or 1,700 lbs.

One litre of petrol has a mass of 740g which means
an average tank of petrol has a liquid mass of 40kg.

So... in your overpriced Tesla, you're already carrying
around the equivalent mass of  five (non-existent)
passengers.   How's that for "economy" LOL.

we'll still be driving fossil fuel cars for many years.


energy security is economic security

germany went all green and closed down coal fired plants

then , as soon as vlad cut off the gas, they reopened the mines the next day, even mining brown coal,

people in the outer suburbs (millions of them) have no public transport option and it will take decades to roll out the infrastructure for EV's

so , unless the governent thinsk they can afford to have millions of people unable to commute to their job , to get their kids to school, to participate in the economy, we will keep burning fuel.

electric vehicle might work in a place like singapore or copenhagen where you have public transport that costs pennies and everyone could ride a bike to work anyway

aquascoot wrote on Sep 15^th, 2023 at 5:25am:

we'll still be driving fossil fuel cars for many years. energy security is economic security germany went all green and closed down coal fired plants then , as soon as vlad cut off the gas, they reopened the mines the next day, even mining brown coal, people in the outer suburbs (millions of them) have no public transport option and it will take decades to roll out the infrastructure for EV's so , unless the governent thinsk they can afford to have millions of people unable to commute to their job , to get their kids to school, to participate in the economy, we will keep burning fuel. electric vehicle might work in a place like singapore or copenhagen where you have public transport that costs pennies and everyone could ride a bike to work anyway

We don't have energy security, dear. We have less than two weeks of petrol supplies in reserve. 90% of our oil comes from Asia.

If you were arguing in favour of energy security, you'd be pushing electric vehicles. Most of our power comes from domestically mined coal.

If we went renewable, most of our energy would come from Australian produced wind, geothermal and solar power. That would be true energy security.

This way, we wouldn't need to plan nuclear subs to prevent China cutting off our trade routes.

It would take a handful of years to roll out the infrastructure for EVs, as Los Angeles and other cities have. Mind you, rolling out broadband has seen people move in the other direction, towards outer suburbs, rural and regional areas where they can now work from home. Workers in a whole range of industries are no longer forced to commute, but I agree. Public transport is a far more efficient solution for commuters.

People often forget that industries like air travel, domestic heavy manufacturing and even freeways were rolled out in a very short period of time post WWII. The electricity grid itself didn't take decades to roll out. When government, industry and people work together, as they did in the post-war boom, things can happen quick.

In times of war, even quicker. Britain produced enough tanks, planes and bombs to defeat Germany in the space of two to three years.

That's the pace we need to prevent far worse global warming than we already have. We have the ability to do this. Energy security is indeed economic security. The way to achieve this is through EVs and renewables.

Big Donger wrote on Sep 16^th, 2023 at 6:12pm:

aquascoot wrote on Sep 15th, 2023 at 5:25am: we'll still be driving fossil fuel cars for many years. energy security is economic security germany went all green and closed down coal fired plants then , as soon as vlad cut off the gas, they reopened the mines the next day, even mining brown coal, people in the outer suburbs (millions of them) have no public transport option and it will take decades to roll out the infrastructure for EV's so , unless the governent thinsk they can afford to have millions of people unable to commute to their job , to get their kids to school, to participate in the economy, we will keep burning fuel. electric vehicle might work in a place like singapore or copenhagen where you have public transport that costs pennies and everyone could ride a bike to work anyway We don't have energy security, dear. We have less than two weeks of petrol supplies in reserve. 90% of our oil comes from Asia. If you were arguing in favour of energy security, you'd be pushing electric vehicles. Most of our power comes from domestically mined coal. If we went renewable, most of our energy would come from Australian produced wind, geothermal and solar power. That would be true energy security. This way, we wouldn't need to plan nuclear subs to prevent China cutting off our trade routes. It would take a handful of years to roll out the infrastructure for EVs, as Los Angeles and other cities have. Mind you, rolling out broadband has seen people move in the other direction, towards outer suburbs, rural and regional areas where they can now work from home. Workers in a whole range of industries are no longer forced to commute, but I agree. Public transport is a far more efficient solution for commuters. People often forget that industries like air travel, domestic heavy manufacturing and even freeways were rolled out in a very short period of time post WWII. The electricity grid itself didn't take decades to roll out. When government, industry and people work together, as they did in the post-war boom, things can happen quick. In times of war, even quicker. Britain produced enough tanks, planes and bombs to defeat Germany in the space of two to three years. That's the pace we need to prevent far worse global warming than we already have. We have the ability to do this. Energy security is indeed economic security. The way to achieve this is through EVs and renewables.

Ok MattyFwit....thank you for pontificating in my topic.

Now tell us what car you own.

Lisa Jones wrote on Sep 16^th, 2023 at 6:56pm:

Big Donger wrote on Sep 16th, 2023 at 6:12pm: aquascoot wrote on Sep 15th, 2023 at 5:25am: we'll still be driving fossil fuel cars for many years. energy security is economic security germany went all green and closed down coal fired plants then , as soon as vlad cut off the gas, they reopened the mines the next day, even mining brown coal, people in the outer suburbs (millions of them) have no public transport option and it will take decades to roll out the infrastructure for EV's so , unless the governent thinsk they can afford to have millions of people unable to commute to their job , to get their kids to school, to participate in the economy, we will keep burning fuel. electric vehicle might work in a place like singapore or copenhagen where you have public transport that costs pennies and everyone could ride a bike to work anyway We don't have energy security, dear. We have less than two weeks of petrol supplies in reserve. 90% of our oil comes from Asia. If you were arguing in favour of energy security, you'd be pushing electric vehicles. Most of our power comes from domestically mined coal. If we went renewable, most of our energy would come from Australian produced wind, geothermal and solar power. That would be true energy security. This way, we wouldn't need to plan nuclear subs to prevent China cutting off our trade routes. It would take a handful of years to roll out the infrastructure for EVs, as Los Angeles and other cities have. Mind you, rolling out broadband has seen people move in the other direction, towards outer suburbs, rural and regional areas where they can now work from home. Workers in a whole range of industries are no longer forced to commute, but I agree. Public transport is a far more efficient solution for commuters. People often forget that industries like air travel, domestic heavy manufacturing and even freeways were rolled out in a very short period of time post WWII. The electricity grid itself didn't take decades to roll out. When government, industry and people work together, as they did in the post-war boom, things can happen quick. In times of war, even quicker. Britain produced enough tanks, planes and bombs to defeat Germany in the space of two to three years. That's the pace we need to prevent far worse global warming than we already have. We have the ability to do this. Energy security is indeed economic security. The way to achieve this is through EVs and renewables. Ok MattyFwit....thank you for pontificating in my topic. Now tell us what car you own.

Why, my dear lady, I'm a shareholder in an entire public transport network, Sydney Transport.

You?

Mattyfisk (Karnal) uses Aussie's taxi

Jasin wrote on Sep 16^th, 2023 at 11:33pm:

Mattyfisk (Karnal) uses Aussie's taxi

Only in New York, dear.

Actually, in Manhattan you'd be insane to drive a ve-hic-le. The subway's less than two bucks a pop. Trains arrive every few minutes and drop you wherever you want to go.

You can buy a dollar pizza slice pretty much anywhere, so to eat and travel, your needs are assured, the only thing you need to worry about is rent.

London's just as good, but I do find their prices insane. Their system appears privatised, or close to it. Nobody seems to know. If you don't have an Oyster card, you'll pay over $12 AUD for a 2 km trip. And if you do, but travel an hour away to, say, Brighton, you'll pay about $40. Any further than that and you pay at least $120, it's cheaper to fly. 

The good thing about London is people are quite happy to walk and ride bicycles, and it's flat.

Sorry, Aquascoot, horses are restricted to Buck Pal, I'm afraid.

An Intro to Tactical Electric Power ::)