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http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl General Discussion >> Federal Politics >> The submarine fiasco continues. http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1691646208 Message started by Bobby. on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 3:43pm

Title: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 3:43pm

The submarine fiasco continues.

We are paying $40 billion each for subs costing $5 billion each -
it's a scandal but both the Libbos and the Labs say it's a good deal.
9 subs for $360 billion. WTF ?
Would you pay 8 times the price for anything?
Are the Pollys getting money in Swiss bank accounts ? -
it's obvious corruption.

check out the prices:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia-class_submarine

In April 2019, the CRS reported that the Navy estimated the cost of a boat was $2.8 billion.[1] In July 2023, the CRS reported that the Navy estimates at the present production rate of two boats per year that the cost per boat when equipped with the additional Virginia Payload Module (VPM) mid-body section was $4.3 billion.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 4:40pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 3:51pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 3:28pm:

chimera wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 3:26pm:

Australia has a king in the North Atlantic and pays for his man in Canberra. Also $268 bn-$368bn Mickey Mouse money for some submersible boats.

We are paying $40 billion each for subs costing $5 billion each -
it's a scandal but both the Libbos and the Labs say it's a good deal.

9 subs for $360 billion.

Bobby, this has been explained to you several times before. Stop being a silly fellow. The $360 billion the Subs are costing is being paid for training, for the establishment of a naval ship building facility in Adelaide and for preparations to actually build the submarines. It is also spread over a period of 30 years and is not the upfront costs for the submarines. If you repeat this bullshit myth again, you will demonstrate once and for all, that you're an idiot. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 4:49pm

Quote:

training, for the establishment of a naval ship building facility in Adelaide

Wow - that costs a lot of money. ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 5:53pm

You have more than ably demonstrated you are an idiot, Bobby. I do not know why you continue with this bullshit line. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 7:14pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 5:53pm:

You have more than ably demonstrated you are an idiot, Bobby. I do not know why you continue with this bullshit line. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Brian,
ad homs are not required -

we are getting like Africa -
we're being raped of our resources and money by corrupt overseas entities
that pay off the decision makers here.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 8:07pm

Four Corners Shadow State

8:32PM - 9:15PM

How consultants infiltrated government.
Firms push ethical boundaries and cost billions of dollars with little transparency and almost no accountability.

Also:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-07/kpmg-consultants-overcharging-defence-four-corners/102644518

Consulting firm KPMG overcharged Defence while raking in billions of dollars, whistleblowers say

Four Corners

By Angus Grigg, Jessica Longbottom, Jonathan Miller and Maddison Connaughton

see it online here:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-07/shadow-state:-how-consultants-infiltrated/102699746

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Sir lastnail on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 8:41pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 3:43pm:

The thing about it is, we only really use the US made military stuff when the yanks get us involve with one of their conflicts. It's like we are buying it off them for when they need to use it in the future.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 8:46pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 8:41pm:

The thing about it is, we only really use the US made military stuff when the yanks
get us involved with one of their conflicts.
It's like we are buying it off them for when they need to use it in the future.

That's the deal -
unless we get involved in all their wars they won't help us if China invades us.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Belgarion on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 8:50pm

This has been explained to you by myself and Brian on several occasions Bobby. If you don't understand it by now there is no point trying any further. ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 8:53pm

Belgarion wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 8:50pm:

This has been explained to you by myself and Brian on several occasions Bobby. If you don't understand it by now there is no point trying any further. ::)

Try again to explain why we are paying 8 times the correct price?

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 9:09pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 8:46pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 8:41pm:

That's the deal -
unless we get involved in all their wars they won't help us if China invades us.

You really are an ignoramus, Bobby. I have explained several times before, China has no intention of invading Australia, we are simply too far for them to even contemplate mounting such operation. "Professionals argue logistics, amateurs argue strategy" so said Napoleon over 200 years ago. True then, true today. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 9:11pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 8:53pm:

Belgarion wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 8:50pm:

This has been explained to you by myself and Brian on several occasions Bobby. If you don't understand it by now there is no point trying any further. ::)

Try again to explain why we are paying 8 times the correct price?

Because we need to train people, to build, to run the Submarines and such things do not come cheap. Bobby, you are demonstrating your foolishness time after time. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 9:11pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 9:09pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 8:46pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 8:41pm:

That's the deal -
unless we get involved in all their wars they won't help us if China invades us.

Nonsense -
China would love to get all our resources for free. ::)

China has the largest navy in the world.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 9:41pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 9:11pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 9:09pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 8:46pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 8:41pm:

That's the deal -
unless we get involved in all their wars they won't help us if China invades us.

Nonsense -
China would love to get all our resources for free. ::)

China has the largest navy in the world.

And it is designed to operate close to China's shores in the South China Sea, Bobby. It lacks training and experience to undertake operations elsewhere, further away from China. We are over 4,500 Km from the nearest part of the Chinese mainland. No one has attempted an operation of such a distance. China would need to conquer several other countries first before it contemplated an operation against Australia, I am sure the Philippines and Indonesia might get a little upset at that happening. Run along, little man, hide under your bridge Troll. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 9:46pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 9:41pm:

get real comrade Brian,
Australia wouldn't stand a chance against the Chinese super power.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 10:24pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 9:46pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 9:41pm:

get real comrade Brian,
Australia wouldn't stand a chance against the Chinese super power.

You have failed to read and understand what I have said, Bobby. Try again. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 10:26pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 10:24pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 9:46pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 9:41pm:

get real comrade Brian,
Australia wouldn't stand a chance against the Chinese super power.

You have failed to read and understand what I have said, Bobby. Try again. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Brian,
China has more people living in some cities than
we have on this entire continent. tsk tsk tsk ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 12:53pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 10:26pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 10:24pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 9:46pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 10^th, 2023 at 9:41pm:

get real comrade Brian,
Australia wouldn't stand a chance against the Chinese super power.

You have failed to read and understand what I have said, Bobby. Try again. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Brian,
China has more people living in some cities than
we have on this entire continent. tsk tsk tsk ::) ::)

They live in China. We live in Australia. There is 4,500 km between the two. It consists mainly of ocean. When we see a Chinese migration fleet hove over the horizon we should start to worry. Until then, you can keep getting your knickers in a twist, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 1:09pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 12:53pm:

My grandmother often used to say -

if the Chinese could get away with it -
they'd invade us tomorrow.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 2:55pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 1:09pm:

My grandmother often used to say -

if the Chinese could get away with it -
they'd invade us tomorrow.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 3:23pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 2:55pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 1:09pm:

My grandmother often used to say -

if the Chinese could get away with it -
they'd invade us tomorrow.

Very good Brian,
China’s fleet is expected to grow to 400 ships in the next two years, the report says.
How would we stop 400 warships?

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/01/16/asia/china-navy-fleet-size-history-victory-intl-hnk-ml/index.html

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Frank on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 3:23pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 2:55pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 1:09pm:

My grandmother often used to say -

if the Chinese could get away with it -
they'd invade us tomorrow.

At that point worrying would be as useless as most of your other 'ideas', cockwomble.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 3:47pm

Frank wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 3:23pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 2:55pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 1:09pm:

My grandmother often used to say -

if the Chinese could get away with it -
they'd invade us tomorrow.

At that point worrying would be as useless as most of your other 'ideas', cockwomble.

Brian doesn't know that I'm a good chess player.
I see the world as a giant chess board.
Numbers matter.
400 ships are a lot to try and stop.
When you are down in material in chess you lose - simple as that.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Belgarion on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 4:33pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 3:47pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 3:23pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 2:55pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 1:09pm:

My grandmother often used to say -

if the Chinese could get away with it -
they'd invade us tomorrow.

At that point worrying would be as useless as most of your other 'ideas', cockwomble.

What would be the objective of a Chinese invasion of Australia?
How many troops will be required?
How will they get here?
How will they be supplied?
Where will their support elements (air and naval) stage from?
What will the international ramifications be?

Just a few of the questions that need to be answered when planning this invasion. Feel free to answer.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 4:37pm

Belgarion wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 4:33pm:

They can use cargo ships and requisition passenger ships to bring troops -
all protected by 400 warships.

China is a superpower - they only need to have the will to do it.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 4:53pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 4:37pm:

Belgarion wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 4:33pm:

They can use cargo ships and requisition passenger ships to bring troops -
all protected by 400 warships.

Cargo ships need ports to unload. Guess what would be the first things destroyed before their arrival? 400 warships? You would need them all to defend against the US Navy and the RAN, near to China. Run along, little man, the world is not a chess game. Chess doesn't require any logistic considerations to be taken into account, the real world does. You might be able to play an abstract game but you wouldn't last five minutes in reality. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Quote:

China is a superpower - they only need to have the will to do it.

China is a great power, it is still a long way from being a superpower. A long way. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Sir lastnail on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 6:27pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 1:09pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 12:53pm:

My grandmother often used to say -

if the Chinese could get away with it -
they'd invade us tomorrow.

they are already here and buying up the joint for which the pollies will gladly sell to them :(

Honestly sometimes the west are their own worst enemy :(

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 9:54pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 4:53pm:

Dear Brian,
many blessings.
I strongly suggest that you solve a chess puzzle every day to improve your thinking:
https://www.chessgames.com/index.html
The Monday puzzle is the easiest, advancing every day to the hardest day on Sunday.

It is not easy to destroy 400 warships.
Numbers count as per a chess game -
if you have only 1 Queen and 5 pawns left and your opponent
has most of their pieces still on the board - greater numbers -
it's almost impossible to win.

forgiven
namaste

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 9:55pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 6:27pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 1:09pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 12:53pm:

My grandmother often used to say -

if the Chinese could get away with it -
they'd invade us tomorrow.

they are already here and buying up the joint for which the pollies will gladly sell to them :(

Honestly sometimes the west are their own worst enemy :(

yes - and they used dirty money to outbid Aussie families
helped by our casinos washing it for them.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:03pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 9:54pm:

Chess doesn't require any logistic considerations to be taken into account, the real world does. You might be able to play an abstract game but you wouldn't last five minutes in reality. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Sir lastnail on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:03pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 9:55pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 6:27pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 1:09pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 12:53pm:

My grandmother often used to say -

if the Chinese could get away with it -
they'd invade us tomorrow.

they are already here and buying up the joint for which the pollies will gladly sell to them :(

Honestly sometimes the west are their own worst enemy :(

yes - and they used dirty money to outbid Aussie families
helped by our casinos washing it for them.

the chinks are swarming all over the place now. labor has opened up the flood gates and they are coming in by the titanic load. Now there will be more aussies living on the street. Face it these pollies have sold us out. First they gave away our manufacturing jobs to them and now they are selling off our houses to them in a one off fire sale. What's left ?? :(

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:05pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:03pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 9:55pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 6:27pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 1:09pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 12:53pm:

My grandmother often used to say -

if the Chinese could get away with it -
they'd invade us tomorrow.

they are already here and buying up the joint for which the pollies will gladly sell to them :(

Honestly sometimes the west are their own worst enemy :(

yes - and they used dirty money to outbid Aussie families
helped by our casinos washing it for them.

the chinks are swarming all over the place now. labor has opened up the flood gates and they are coming in by the titanic load :(

yes sir Nail,
we've been invaded.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Sir lastnail on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:08pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:05pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:03pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 9:55pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 6:27pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 1:09pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 12:53pm:

My grandmother often used to say -

if the Chinese could get away with it -
they'd invade us tomorrow.

they are already here and buying up the joint for which the pollies will gladly sell to them :(

Honestly sometimes the west are their own worst enemy :(

yes - and they used dirty money to outbid Aussie families
helped by our casinos washing it for them.

the chinks are swarming all over the place now. labor has opened up the flood gates and they are coming in by the titanic load :(

yes sir Nail,
we've been invaded.

try going to china and buying realestate ? You will be shown the door even though they have ghost cities full of 1000's of vacant apartments. We really are stupid here to keep voting for these sellout clowns :(

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:08pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:03pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 9:54pm:

Chess doesn't require any logistic considerations to be taken into account, the real world does.
You might be able to play an abstract game but you wouldn't last five minutes in reality.
Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

On the contrary - I could set a much better military strategy than
the halfwits running our defense here.

For a start I wouldn't spend $40 billion each on $5 billion subs
that won't arrive for 15 years or more. ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:09pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:08pm:

So true sir Nail,
we've been ploughed by the Chinese -
they are too smart for dumb Aussies.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Sir lastnail on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:10pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:08pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:03pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 9:54pm:

Chess doesn't require any logistic considerations to be taken into account, the real world does.
You might be able to play an abstract game but you wouldn't last five minutes in reality.
Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

but you'd be doing KPMG out of a job :D LOL

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:14pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:10pm:

but you'd be doing KPMG out of a job :D LOL

The bloody crooks have left us defenseless.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Sir lastnail on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:15pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:14pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:10pm:

but you'd be doing KPMG out of a job :D LOL

The bloody crooks have left us defenseless.

that allows the chinks to walk right in unhindered and this is no coincidence either ;)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:40pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:15pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:14pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:10pm:

but you'd be doing KPMG out of a job :D LOL

The bloody crooks have left us defenseless.

that allows the chinks to walk right in unhindered and this is no coincidence either ;)

yes -
it's time that Brian watched 4 Corners:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-07/shadow-state:-how-consultants-infiltrated/102699746

Brian supports those crooks.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:45pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:08pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:03pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 9:54pm:

Chess doesn't require any logistic considerations to be taken into account, the real world does.
You might be able to play an abstract game but you wouldn't last five minutes in reality.
Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Bullshit, Bobby. This has been explained to you before. You are drippling poo from your fingertips. You have no military experience and little understanding of military strategy. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 12^th, 2023 at 6:14am

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:45pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:08pm:

Bullshit, Bobby. This has been explained to you before.
You are drippling poo from your fingertips.
You have no military experience and little understanding of military strategy. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::) ::)

dear Brian,
So you can't argue on the facts - you have only ad hominem abuse?

Tsk, tsk, tsk ... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Belgarion on Aug 12^th, 2023 at 10:33am

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:08pm:

OK, can you outline your strategy?

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 12^th, 2023 at 8:33pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 12^th, 2023 at 6:14am:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:45pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:08pm:

Bullshit, Bobby. This has been explained to you before.
You are drippling poo from your fingertips.
You have no military experience and little understanding of military strategy. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::) ::)

dear Brian,
So you can't argue on the facts - you have only ad hominem abuse?

Tsk, tsk, tsk ... ::) ::)

I have argued with you for the last few years, Bobby. I have read your so-called "strategy", many times, Bobby, like most of your bullshit it is not relevant. OK, lets go one more time, shall we? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 12^th, 2023 at 8:47pm

Belgarion wrote on Aug 12^th, 2023 at 10:33am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:08pm:

OK, can you outline your strategy?

First of all -
Australia should point out to the USA and China that they could
save a lot of money if they both agreed to limit their arms manufacturing.
That's how the old SALT treaties worked and needs to be applied to
conventional arms and armies.

No one even talks about that. ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 12^th, 2023 at 9:08pm

How retarded are human beings?

Look at how stupid we are right now -
we are threatened with global nuclear war over 4 small areas of land in Ukraine
that 2 years ago no one had ever heard of and from Russia which is already the largest country in the world
so has plenty of land - so much land that most of it has no one living there.
So we fight over pure greed for more of what we already have in abundance.
That shows little hope for our long term future.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 12^th, 2023 at 9:34pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 12^th, 2023 at 8:47pm:

Belgarion wrote on Aug 12^th, 2023 at 10:33am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:08pm:

OK, can you outline your strategy?

SALT and START treaties only came about because the US hit financial trouble in the 1960s because of it's insane commitment to the Vietnam War. If that hadn't happened they would have kept on churning out nukes. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Still waiting for your strategy, Bobby. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 12^th, 2023 at 9:44pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 12^th, 2023 at 9:34pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 12^th, 2023 at 8:47pm:

Belgarion wrote on Aug 12^th, 2023 at 10:33am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 11^th, 2023 at 10:08pm:

OK, can you outline your strategy?

Brian,
get your history straight first.
At the height of the cold war each side had over 30,000 nuclear weapons.
It was an obvious waste of money.
China got through the cold war with 12 nuclear weapons. Tsk tsk tsk ... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 12^th, 2023 at 10:29pm

Still waiting for your strategy, Bobby. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:49pm

Still waiting for your strategy, Bobby. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:57pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:49pm:

Still waiting for your strategy, Bobby. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Dear Brian,
many blessings.

My strategy involves copying Israel's strategy:
Buy weapons only when really necessary and
design and manufacture our own weapons here in Australia as much as possible.
That uses our money in our economy and helps to retain a sovereign advantage.
Some costs could be offset by selling weapon systems to our Allies.

More to follow.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Sir lastnail on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 4:38pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:57pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:49pm:

Still waiting for your strategy, Bobby. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Make something here instead of buying it off the rack. How terrible that is :D LOL

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 4:52pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:57pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:49pm:

Still waiting for your strategy, Bobby. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

So, in otherwords, you are copying the present strategy employed by the present Government, Bobby? No difference, Australia is seeking to manufacture it's own weapons and would like to sell them to it's allies. However, our weapons tend to be expensive because of differences in costs because of differences in exchanges. And there you were, proclaiming how great your strategy was compared to the existing strategy... Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 4:56pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 4:38pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:57pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:49pm:

Still waiting for your strategy, Bobby. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Make something here instead of buying it off the rack. How terrible that is :D LOL

Tell that to the Liberal/Country coalition which proclaimed that it preferred all weapons to be manufactured overseas, rather than manufactured here. They then learnt that they would lose South Australia because it was the Defence State, heavily reliant on defence industries, just as it used to be on white goods back in the days when we used to make things, hey? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 4:59pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 4:52pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:57pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:49pm:

Still waiting for your strategy, Bobby. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

We do so but only on a small scale.
We buy just about everything from overseas at inflated prices from the military industrial complex.
We buy things like a bolt or a nut for $100 that you could buy at Bunnings for $2.
We're being ripped off.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by whiteknight on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:09pm

Well said Bobby, also consider this, how many time does Australia buy thing from overseas not fit for purpose?. :(

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:20pm

whiteknight wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:09pm:

Well said Bobby, also consider this, how many time does Australia buy thing from overseas not fit for purpose?. :(

Thanks Sir Crook:
yes - what about those helicopters?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-66352770

Australia grounds MRH-90 helicopter fleet after crash

Australia's army chief says the military is grounding a fleet of military helicopters after a crash left four crew members missing.

Lt Gen Simon Stuart said none of the army's 45 MRH-90 Taipan helicopters would be flown again until they were found to be safe.

The crash took place during a US-Australian military exercise off Lindeman Island on Friday night.

Australia has previously grounded its Taipans for safety reasons.

"We are not flying the MRH-90 today and won't until we think it is safe to do so," Gen Stuart told reporters in Sydney on Sunday.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by whiteknight on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:23pm

Yes Bobby that's right. Also what about the Bushmasters, was there not a problem with the brakes a while ago. Has it been corrected?. :(

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:26pm

whiteknight wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:23pm:

Yes Bobby that's right. Also what about the Bushmasters,
was there not a problem with the brakes a while ago. Has it been corrected?. :(

I dunno - at least they were made here. :-[

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Belgarion on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:29pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:57pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:49pm:

Still waiting for your strategy, Bobby. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

You do understand that this SSN deal is all about developing the ability to construct these boats here and eventually to design our own? We certainly could do more about local development and manufacture, but we do have a fairly healthy arms export industry, no 11 in the world in 2020.
https://globelynews.com/world/world-top-arms-exporting-countries/

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:34pm

Belgarion wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:29pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:57pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:49pm:

Still waiting for your strategy, Bobby. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

It says
11. Australia — $396 million

I'm surprised it's that much.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:59pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 4:59pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 4:52pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:57pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 3:49pm:

Still waiting for your strategy, Bobby. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Except the Bunning's bolt or nut is not guaranteed to work at 40,000 feet, Bobby. We pay market rates, with guarantees to make sure that our equipment works at the altitudes/depths that we need them to work at. This costs more. We buy what we need from overseas. Nothing more. If you were willing to set up a factory here and provide the guarantees we require, we would be willing to purchase from you, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 6:11pm

whiteknight wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:23pm:

Yes Bobby that's right. Also what about the Bushmasters, was there not a problem with the brakes a while ago. Has it been corrected?. :(

That was the Hawkei, which has now been corrected. Bushmasters are proving very popular with the Ukrainians, the Kiwis, the Fijians and the Indonesians and the Dutch.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 6:14pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 6:11pm:

whiteknight wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:23pm:

Yes Bobby that's right. Also what about the Bushmasters, was there not a problem with the brakes a while ago. Has it been corrected?. :(

That was the Hawkei, which has now been corrected. Bushmasters are proving very popular with the Ukrainians, the Kiwis, the Fijians and the Indonesians and the Dutch.

We need to produce more military products.
That's part of my strategy.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 6:19pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 6:14pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 6:11pm:

whiteknight wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:23pm:

Yes Bobby that's right. Also what about the Bushmasters, was there not a problem with the brakes a while ago. Has it been corrected?. :(

That was the Hawkei, which has now been corrected. Bushmasters are proving very popular with the Ukrainians, the Kiwis, the Fijians and the Indonesians and the Dutch.

We need to produce more military products.
That's part of my strategy.

Which is what the Government is presently aiming at and their plan includes SSNs, Bobby, which you are always disparaging. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 6:34pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 6:19pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 6:14pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 6:11pm:

whiteknight wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:23pm:

Yes Bobby that's right. Also what about the Bushmasters, was there not a problem with the brakes a while ago. Has it been corrected?. :(

That was the Hawkei, which has now been corrected. Bushmasters are proving very popular with the Ukrainians, the Kiwis, the Fijians and the Indonesians and the Dutch.

We need to produce more military products.
That's part of my strategy.

Which is what the Government is presently aiming at and their plan includes SSNs, Bobby, which you are always disparaging. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

The Govts idea is that we make kit set subs as though we were buying from IKEA
and we end up paying $40 billion each for subs that the Yanks buy for $5 billion each.

No amount of window dressing will change that fact. Tsk, tsk, tsk ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 7:06pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 6:34pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 6:19pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 6:14pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 6:11pm:

whiteknight wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 5:23pm:

Yes Bobby that's right. Also what about the Bushmasters, was there not a problem with the brakes a while ago. Has it been corrected?. :(

That was the Hawkei, which has now been corrected. Bushmasters are proving very popular with the Ukrainians, the Kiwis, the Fijians and the Indonesians and the Dutch.

We need to produce more military products.
That's part of my strategy.

Which is what the Government is presently aiming at and their plan includes SSNs, Bobby, which you are always disparaging. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

The Govts idea is that we make kit set subs as though we were buying from IKEA and we end up paying $40 billion each for subs that the Yanks buy for $5 billion each.

No amount of window dressing will change that fact. Tsk, tsk, tsk ::) ::)

America already has the means to build their submarines, to train their crews, Bobby, We don't. We must therefore pay for them to be built new, here. You seem unable to grasp this simple fact, Bobby. Why are you so foolish? You want us to build things but do not understand that we need to build the means to build the subs and build the means to train the crews. You really are a noong. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 7:15pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 7:06pm:

America already has the means to build their submarines, to train their crews, Bobby, We don't. We must therefore pay for them to be built new, here. You seem unable to grasp this simple fact, Bobby. Why are you so foolish? You want us build things but do not understand that we need to build the means to build the subs and build the means to train the crews. You really are a noong. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Noong ? - cheap ad hominem. ::)

Show me the figures Brian? -
the means to build the subs and build the means to train the crews. $dollar amounts.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 10:06pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 7:15pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 7:06pm:

America already has the means to build their submarines, to train their crews, Bobby, We don't. We must therefore pay for them to be built new, here. You seem unable to grasp this simple fact, Bobby. Why are you so foolish? You want us build things but do not understand that we need to build the means to build the subs and build the means to train the crews. You really are a noong. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Noong ? - cheap ad hominem. ::)

Show me the figures Brian? -
the means to build the subs and build the means to train the crews. $dollar amounts.

You have quoted the amount numerous times, Bobby. Why do you need for me to repeat it? You really are a noong. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 14^th, 2023 at 6:21am

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 10:06pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 7:15pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 7:06pm:

America already has the means to build their submarines, to train their crews, Bobby, We don't. We must therefore pay for them to be built new, here. You seem unable to grasp this simple fact, Bobby. Why are you so foolish? You want us build things but do not understand that we need to build the means to build the subs and build the means to train the crews. You really are a noong. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Noong ? - cheap ad hominem. ::)

Show me the figures Brian? -
the means to build the subs and build the means to train the crews. $dollar amounts.

You have quoted the amount numerous times, Bobby. Why do you need for me to repeat it? You really are a noong. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Brian,
You've provided no links - zero evidence of anything you write here.

forgiven
namaste

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 14^th, 2023 at 4:18pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 14^th, 2023 at 6:21am:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 10:06pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 7:15pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 13^th, 2023 at 7:06pm:

America already has the means to build their submarines, to train their crews, Bobby, We don't. We must therefore pay for them to be built new, here. You seem unable to grasp this simple fact, Bobby. Why are you so foolish? You want us build things but do not understand that we need to build the means to build the subs and build the means to train the crews. You really are a noong. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Noong ? - cheap ad hominem. ::)

Show me the figures Brian? -
the means to build the subs and build the means to train the crews. $dollar amounts.

You have quoted the amount numerous times, Bobby. Why do you need for me to repeat it? You really are a noong. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Brian,
You've provided no links - zero evidence of anything you write here.

forgiven
namaste

I don't need to provide anything, Bobby, you do 'cause you are attempting to prove something. You have already quoted the amount of money we are paying to purchase new submarines. You seemed so sure of the amount. What's wrong? Getting chilly feet? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 14^th, 2023 at 4:27pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 14^th, 2023 at 4:18pm:

I don't need to provide anything, Bobby, you do 'cause you are attempting to prove something. You have already quoted the amount of money we paying to purchase new submarines. You seemed so sure of the amount. What's wrong? Getting chilly feet? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/aukus-subs-to-cost-up-to-368b-20230313-p5crs9

AUKUS confronts ‘inflection point in history’ with $368b subs deal

Australia will spend up to
$368 billion over the next three decades to buy a fleet of eight nuclear-powered submarines,
combining with the US and Britain to discourage Chinese military adventurism and preserve regional peace and prosperity.

368/8 = $46 billion each. :o

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 14^th, 2023 at 4:35pm

Here's Brian:

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 14^th, 2023 at 4:52pm

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Belgarion on Aug 14^th, 2023 at 5:18pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 14^th, 2023 at 4:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 14^th, 2023 at 4:18pm:

It has been explained to you over and over and over again, this reflects not only the cost of the platforms themselves, but the cost of all the training, the establishment of the supporting infrastructure and the through life costs of the programme.

Buying a submarine is not like buying a new car and driving away in it.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 14^th, 2023 at 5:23pm

Belgarion wrote on Aug 14^th, 2023 at 5:18pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 14^th, 2023 at 4:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 14^th, 2023 at 4:18pm:

many blessings - you are most welcomed here -

and well received as you are cleansed of your confusions.
More to follow.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 14^th, 2023 at 10:15pm

Still waiting on your explanation of your strategy, Bobby... Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 14^th, 2023 at 10:24pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 14^th, 2023 at 10:15pm:

Still waiting on your explanation of your strategy, Bobby... Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

dear Brian,
many blessings.

I suggest you study Israel's military strategy to learn what we should do.
Like Israel we are a small population surrounded by aggressive enemies
who want to destroy us.
Israel has survived so far and won many wars -
it has set the precedent for us.

Suggestions:
study the the Six Day War of 5-10 June 1967 and
the Yom Kippur War of October 1973.

Come back to me when you're ready.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 2:11pm

Still waiting on your explanation of your strategy, Bobby... Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 2:15pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 2:11pm:

Still waiting on your explanation of your strategy, Bobby... Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Are you worthy of such knowledge?

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 2:34pm

Still waiting on your detailed explanation of your strategy, Bobby... Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 3:10pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 2:34pm:

Still waiting on your detailed explanation of your strategy, Bobby... Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

as a prelude -

We need to copy Israel including:

1) Bring back conscription for compulsory military training
for all able bodied young people both men and women.

2) Design and produce as many of our own weapons systems as possible:
Tanks, SAMs, surface to surface missiles, precision artillery, rifles, ammunition
guided bombs, AWACs, launch our own military spy satellites, ICBMs,
(if a tinpot regime like NK can do it - so can we)
our own electronic warfare capability,
military ships and if possible our own submarines.

3) Build a nuclear reactor and nullify IAEA inspections -
have a policy of nuclear ambiguity.
Israel is not a member of the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) nor
has it allowed IAEA inspectors to visit its nuclear weapon sites.

4) Buy more fighter jets - have a huge air force.
Make more military runways and have hardened bunkers for all aircraft and maintenance.

5) make diplomatic efforts for arms reductions between China and the USA to lower tensions.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 3:53pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 3:10pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 2:34pm:

Still waiting on your detailed explanation of your strategy, Bobby... Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

as a prelude -

We need to copy Israel including:

1) Bring back conscription for compulsory military training
for all able bodied young people both men and women.

Conscription is a death sentence for any government that dares to re-introduce the measure without an existential threat to justify it, Bobby. Are you willing to see your government of choice go down in flames? Australia's history with conscription has not been a happy one. We fought two unhappy Referenda campaigns during WWI over the issue, and we had a massive division of the country because of it's use in Vietnam. I expect issuevoter along any minute now to put you right on the matter.

Quote:

2) Design and produce as many of our own weapons systems as possible:
Tanks, SAMs, surface to surface missiles, precision artillery, rifles, ammunition
guided bombs, AWACs, launch our own military spy satellites, ICBMs,
(if a tinpot regime like NK can do it - so can we)
our own electronic warfare capability,
military ships and if possible our own submarines.

The Australian market for armaments is small, Bobby. Until you increase the military proportionally and sell equipment to more friendly powers, you are throwing good money after bad.

Quote:

3) Build a nuclear reactor and nullify IAEA inspections -
have a policy of nuclear ambiguity.
Israel is not a member of the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) nor
has it allowed IAEA inspectors to visit its nuclear weapon sites.

Australia would need to reverse over 60 years of nuclear policy, Bobby. We had a strong reputation as an anti-nuclear country. A very strong one and we are signatory of several key treaties. Do you want to throw that all away?

Quote:

4) Buy more fighter jets - have a huge air force.
Make more military runways and have hardened bunkers for all aircraft and maintenance.

And who is going to fly these jets, Bobby? Who is going to pay for them? Hardened shelters are expensive. They didn't work all that well for the Iraqi air force in 1990. We would be much better served by WEDGETAIL AEW&C aircraft and air tankers.

Quote:

5) make diplomatic efforts for arms reductions between China and the USA to lower tensions.

Fine. Excellent in fact. How are you going to do that and not appear weak at the same time, Bobby?

I am still waiting for you to explain, in detail, your strategy. You claimed it was superior, where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 4:18pm

One at a time.

Quote:

Tell me what good it was for Ukraine to give up their nuclear weapons for false Russian promises?
Now they have Russia threatening to nuke them and nothing to hit back with.
The whole of Ukraine is a sitting duck.
Could we end up in the same predicament?

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 4:31pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 4:18pm:

One at a time.

Quote:

As long as we are Allied to the US we are covered by the US's nuclear umbrella, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 4:35pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 4:31pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 4:18pm:

One at a time.

Quote:

As long as we are Allied to the US we are covered by the US's nuclear umbrella, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Yeah right - the USA will risk nuclear annihilation for us. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 4:48pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 4:35pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 4:31pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 4:18pm:

One at a time.

Quote:

As long as we are Allied to the US we are covered by the US's nuclear umbrella, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Yeah right - the USA will risk nuclear annihilation for us. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

We have the word of successive US Presidents on the matter, Bobby. Who is going to risk nuclear annilation from America? Who is specifically threatening us with nuclear weapons?

You keep wandering away from the specific details of your supposedly superior defence strategy, Bobby. I grow impatient, you keep making claims about it. I want to read it, now. Understand? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 7:28pm

continued after winning the first round:

Quote:

I already mentioned AWACs.

We need to be able to survive a surprise, first strike on our air force.
We could hardly do it now with our cheap aircraft hangers - juicy, easy targets.
Maybe we need to store them underground with
elevator shafts as are used on aircraft carriers?
Saddam didn't have that.

Australian pilots will fly the jets - who else?

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 8:56pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 7:28pm:

continued after winning the first round:

Delude yourself if you like, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Quote:

[quote]And who is going to fly these jets, Bobby? Who is going to pay for them? Hardened shelters are expensive. They didn't work all that well for the Iraqi air force in 1990. We would be much better served by WEDGETAIL AEW & C aircraft and air tankers.

I already mentioned AWACs.[/quote]

Where?

Quote:

We need to be able to survive a surprise, first strike on our air force.
We could hardly do it now with our cheap aircraft hangers - juicy, easy targets.

We have half a dozen WEDGETAIL AEW&C aircraft, Bobby. We lack an enemy.

Quote:

Maybe we need to store them underground with
elevator shafts as are used on aircraft carriers?
Saddam didn't have that.

Australian pilots will fly the jets - who else?

You are adding to the cost of the airbases considerably, Bobby. Only Sweden, DPRK and Taiwan store their aircraft below ground and then only in mountainous regions, which Australia generally lacks. Who is going to be willing to spend 10 times the cost for an airbase?

Our airbases are designed to be alerted by AEW&C aircraft. We house our aircraft in shelters that protect the ground crews as they work on the planes. As long as we lack an enemy threat, it seems appropriate.

Now where is the detail on your strategy, Bobby? It seems you have forgotten that you promised it. Where is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 9:01pm

Quote:

Now where is the detail on your strategy, Bobby?

You have already been given some details.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 9:08pm

Quote:

We have half a dozen WEDGETAIL AEW&C aircraft, Bobby. We lack an enemy.

That wouldn't stop a dozen Chinese subs from surfacing at the same time
and launching cruise missiles at our air bases.
We'd be caught with our pants down.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 9:52pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 9:08pm:

Quote:

We have half a dozen WEDGETAIL AEW&C aircraft, Bobby. We lack an enemy.

That wouldn't stop a dozen Chinese subs from surfacing at the same time
and launching cruise missiles at our air bases.
We'd be caught with our pants down.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. First up, China would need to declare war on Australia, which would of course alert us to a danger. We would then detect their cruise missiles as the approach across our coast line towards our air bases. You seem to be assuming that cruise missiles are instantaneous and don't have to fly to their targets. Even stealth missiles give off a signal reflection. The WEDGETAIL is designed to detect them.

Now, where is your strategy, Bobby? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 9:57pm

Brian,
there wouldn't be enough time to get all our aircraft out
of their hangers and into the air.
China might even have hypersonic missiles that would arrive in 20 minutes from subs.
The Japs never declared war before they hit Pearl Harbor.

We are not prepared for a surprise first strike.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 1:23pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

No one is likely to mount such an attack without there first being a period of increased tension being evident, Bobby. Countries do not undertake a matter as serious as a war without there being problems between two or more countries. Japan failed to declare war because of circumstance, they had sent all their embassy decoders back to Japan rather than keep them in Washington. They had planned to declare war at the moment of attack, not afterwards which is what happened.

China does not have weapons that are instantaneous in effect. They stick take time to strike their targets. A lot of time. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Now where is your vaunted strategy? I am wondering if you have one at all. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Frank on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 1:46pm

We ARE living in a period of increased tension.

Any war involving Australia would not be between JUST Australia and one other country, like China. Australia has never been involved in such a war. It has been involved in many wars as an ally of one side, Britain and/or the US.

If there is a war between the US and China, Australia would be involved as an American ally, along with Korea and Japan. This would make them all Chinese targets.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 1:58pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 1:23pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

No one is likely to mount such an attack without there first being a period of increased tension being evident, Bpbby. Countries do not undertake a matter as serious as a war without there being problems between two or more countries. Japan failed to declare war because of circumstance, they had sent all their embassy decoders back to Japan rather than keep them in Washington. They had planned to declare war at the moment of attack, not afterwards which is what happened.

China does not have weapons that are instantaneous in effect. They stick take time to strike their targets. A lot of time. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Now where is your vaunted strategy? I am wondering if you have one at all. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

You've missed the point -
we have nowhere to hide our F-35s and other planes in a real war.

I doubt they would last 24 hours. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Did Brian ever play chess?

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 4:20pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 1:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 1:23pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 9:57pm:

You've missed the point -
we have nowhere to hide our F-35s and other planes in a real war.

I doubt they would last 24 hours. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Did Brian ever play chess?

There is no point, Bobby. You are ducking and diving, trying to avoid reality. When you admit your error, there might be a point to what you're saying. Australia is a long way from China, Australia's airbases are a generally some distance from deep water places where submarines could lurk. Try again, it is amusing watching you duck and dive. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Frank on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 4:49pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 4:20pm:

Australia's airbases are a generally some distance from deep water places where submarines could lurk. Try again, it is amusing watching you duck and dive. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Weally, Bbwian?? Weally???

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:04pm

The Australian Sea Map shows we know sufficient about the deep water near Australia that it is nearly all hundreds of kilometres from our major airbases, Soren. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:06pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 9:01pm:

Quote:

Now where is the detail on your strategy, Bobby?

You have already been given some details.

No, you haven't. Try again, Bobby. Stop ducking and diving. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:09pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 9:08pm:

Quote:

We have half a dozen WEDGETAIL AEW&C aircraft, Bobby. We lack an enemy.

That wouldn't stop a dozen Chinese subs from surfacing at the same time
and launching cruise missiles at our air bases.
We'd be caught with our pants down.

They have to approach in deep water. Just as it is difficult for us to base subs, it is difficult for them to have sufficient deep water near to our airbases. Otherwise they are detected easily. Our main airbases are all several hundred kilometres from the coast. Run along, Bobby, keep ducking and diving. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Frank on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:31pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:04pm:

The Australian Sea Map shows we know sufficient about the deep water near Australia that it is nearly all hundreds of kilometres from our major airbases, Soren. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

So how long does it take for a missile to cover that distance, or even 10 times that?

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:40pm

Frank wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:31pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:04pm:

The Australian Sea Map shows we know sufficient about the deep water near Australia that it is nearly all hundreds of kilometres from our major airbases, Soren. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

So how long does it take for a missile to cover that distance, or even 10 times that?

How long is a piece of string, Soren? It all depends on the speed of the missile. Generally, most missiles travel at approximately Mach 1+. Many travel slower, below Mach 1. Some hypersonics are touted to travel at Mach 5+. Work it out for yourself. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by aquascoot on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:44pm

surely all subs made from now on should be unmanned drone subs.

china probably has a few dozen parked on the ocean floor off oz and can just fire their missles via the local huwaei tower

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:51pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:09pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 9:08pm:

Quote:

We have half a dozen WEDGETAIL AEW&C aircraft, Bobby. We lack an enemy.

That wouldn't stop a dozen Chinese subs from surfacing at the same time
and launching cruise missiles at our air bases.
We'd be caught with our pants down.

dear Brian,
in chess the Bishop has great range -
it can strike from the other side of the board.

So can cruise missiles with ranges of 1000s of kilometers -
easily enough for a sub to surface - launch many and then dive back to the deep.
Our air force bases could not survive such attacks.

tsk, tsk, tsk ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 6:05pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:51pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:09pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 9:08pm:

Quote:

We have half a dozen WEDGETAIL AEW&C aircraft, Bobby. We lack an enemy.

That wouldn't stop a dozen Chinese subs from surfacing at the same time
and launching cruise missiles at our air bases.
We'd be caught with our pants down.

Chess is, as I keep explaining, Bobby, an abstract game. Modern submarines do not need to surface to launch their missiles, indeed that last that I knew that did that were Soviet ones, way back in the 1960s. Keep trying, it is fun watching you ducking and diving. Most amusing, indeed. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 6:15pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 6:05pm:

The Chinese don't need cruise missiles that can be launched from underwater.

Ordinary missiles will do. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 6:22pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu7vySQbgXI&t=3s

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Frank on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 6:23pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:40pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:31pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:04pm:

The Australian Sea Map shows we know sufficient about the deep water near Australia that it is nearly all hundreds of kilometres from our major airbases, Soren. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

So how long does it take for a missile to cover that distance, or even 10 times that?

So 5 minutes to cover 100km at mach 1.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 6:28pm

Frank wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 6:23pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:40pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:31pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:04pm:

The Australian Sea Map shows we know sufficient about the deep water near Australia that it is nearly all hundreds of kilometres from our major airbases, Soren. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

So how long does it take for a missile to cover that distance, or even 10 times that?

So 5 minutes to cover 100km at mach 1.

Yep,
Mach 1 = 1,200 km/hr

1200/60 = 20km per minute.

100 km takes 5 minutes.

At mach 5 it would take only 1 minute. :o

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 11:16pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 6:28pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 6:23pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:40pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:31pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:04pm:

The Australian Sea Map shows we know sufficient about the deep water near Australia that it is nearly all hundreds of kilometres from our major airbases, Soren. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

So how long does it take for a missile to cover that distance, or even 10 times that?

So 5 minutes to cover 100km at mach 1.

Yep,
Mach 1 = 1,200 km/hr

1200/60 = 20km per minute.

100 km takes 5 minutes.

At mach 5 it would take only 1 minute. :o

I don't know of any major airbases at 100 Km range, Bobby and Soren. Perhaps you'd care to list them? Mmmm? ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Frank on Aug 17^th, 2023 at 12:57am

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 11:16pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 6:28pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 6:23pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:40pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:31pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:04pm:

The Australian Sea Map shows we know sufficient about the deep water near Australia that it is nearly all hundreds of kilometres from our major airbases, Soren. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

So how long does it take for a missile to cover that distance, or even 10 times that?

So 5 minutes to cover 100km at mach 1.

Yep,
Mach 1 = 1,200 km/hr

1200/60 = 20km per minute.

100 km takes 5 minutes.

At mach 5 it would take only 1 minute. :o

I don't know of any major airbases at 100 Km range, Bobby and Soren. Perhaps you'd care to list them? Mmmm? ::) ::)

From where, cockwomble? Piece of string?

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 17^th, 2023 at 6:55am

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 11:16pm:

I don't know of any major airbases at 100 Km range, Bobby and Soren.
Perhaps you'd care to list them? Mmmm? ::) ::)

then make it 1,000kms Brian,

then it would take 50 minutes for a cruise missile to hit an air base. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 17^th, 2023 at 1:51pm

Frank wrote on Aug 17^th, 2023 at 12:57am:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 11:16pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 6:28pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 6:23pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:40pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:31pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:04pm:

The Australian Sea Map shows we know sufficient about the deep water near Australia that it is nearly all hundreds of kilometres from our major airbases, Soren. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

So how long does it take for a missile to cover that distance, or even 10 times that?

So 5 minutes to cover 100km at mach 1.

Yep,
Mach 1 = 1,200 km/hr

1200/60 = 20km per minute.

100 km takes 5 minutes.

At mach 5 it would take only 1 minute. :o

I don't know of any major airbases at 100 Km range, Bobby and Soren. Perhaps you'd care to list them? Mmmm? ::) ::)

From where, cockwomble? Piece of string?

See the problem with your reasoning yet, Soren? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 17^th, 2023 at 1:53pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 17^th, 2023 at 6:55am:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 11:16pm:

I don't know of any major airbases at 100 Km range, Bobby and Soren.
Perhaps you'd care to list them? Mmmm? ::) ::)

then make it 1,000kms Brian,

then it would take 50 minutes for a cruise missile to hit an air base. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Long time to be incoming, Bobby, long time... Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 17^th, 2023 at 5:33pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 17^th, 2023 at 1:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 17^th, 2023 at 6:55am:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 11:16pm:

I don't know of any major airbases at 100 Km range, Bobby and Soren.
Perhaps you'd care to list them? Mmmm? ::) ::)

then make it 1,000kms Brian,

then it would take 50 minutes for a cruise missile to hit an air base. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Long time to be incoming, Bobby, long time... Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

How would we know that a low flying cruise missile is on the way in?
It's flying below the radar.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 17^th, 2023 at 8:12pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 17^th, 2023 at 5:33pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 17^th, 2023 at 1:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 17^th, 2023 at 6:55am:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 11:16pm:

I don't know of any major airbases at 100 Km range, Bobby and Soren.
Perhaps you'd care to list them? Mmmm? ::) ::)

then make it 1,000kms Brian,

then it would take 50 minutes for a cruise missile to hit an air base. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Long time to be incoming, Bobby, long time... Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

How would we know that a low flying cruise missile is on the way in?
It's flying below the radar.

You keep forgetting the WEDGETAILs, Bobby. Nothing flies lower than airborne radar... Keep squirming, it's amusing to watch... Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 17^th, 2023 at 8:18pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 17^th, 2023 at 8:12pm:

You keep forgetting the WEDGETAILs, Bobby.
Nothing flies lower than airborne radar... Keep squirming, it's amusing to watch... Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Brian,
you're being silly.

forgiven

namaste

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 17^th, 2023 at 9:33pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 17^th, 2023 at 8:18pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 17^th, 2023 at 8:12pm:

You keep forgetting the WEDGETAILs, Bobby.
Nothing flies lower than airborne radar... Keep squirming, it's amusing to watch... Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Brian,
you're being silly.

forgiven

namaste

No, Bobby, you're the one being silly. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Frank on Aug 17^th, 2023 at 9:50pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 17^th, 2023 at 1:51pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 17^th, 2023 at 12:57am:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 11:16pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 6:28pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 6:23pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:40pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:31pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 16^th, 2023 at 5:04pm:

The Australian Sea Map shows we know sufficient about the deep water near Australia that it is nearly all hundreds of kilometres from our major airbases, Soren. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

So how long does it take for a missile to cover that distance, or even 10 times that?

So 5 minutes to cover 100km at mach 1.

Yep,
Mach 1 = 1,200 km/hr

1200/60 = 20km per minute.

100 km takes 5 minutes.

At mach 5 it would take only 1 minute. :o

I don't know of any major airbases at 100 Km range, Bobby and Soren. Perhaps you'd care to list them? Mmmm? ::) ::)

From where, cockwomble? Piece of string?

See the problem with your reasoning yet, Soren? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

No.
Other than treating you as semi-rational. A mistake. You are a complete cockwomble.
Sorry about temporarily overestimating you, big girl's blouse.
It has now passed and we are back to seeing you for what you have been all along.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 17^th, 2023 at 10:16pm

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 5:09pm

Bobby is squirming away it seems. Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Frank on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 6:09pm

Distance is a significant defence asset for Australia
https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/distance-is-australias-best-defence-asset/

This does not mean that it is a sole asset or that we can rely on it. Nuclear submarines can approach Australia by stealth and strike military bases, air and naval.
Australia doesnt need to be occupied to be subjugated.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 7:01pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 3:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 3:10pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 2:34pm:

Still waiting on your detailed explanation of your strategy, Bobby... Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

as a prelude -

We need to copy Israel including:

1) Bring back conscription for compulsory military training
for all able bodied young people both men and women.

CMT is only training - it's not sending anyone to a war. Tsk, tsk, tsk, ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 9:06pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 7:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 3:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 3:10pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 2:34pm:

Still waiting on your detailed explanation of your strategy, Bobby... Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

as a prelude -

We need to copy Israel including:

1) Bring back conscription for compulsory military training
for all able bodied young people both men and women.

CMT is only training - it's not sending anyone to a war. Tsk, tsk, tsk, ::) ::)

You would need a very, very, very, careful publicity campaign to explain that different, Bobby. You domestic enemies would enjoy waging a publicity campaign against it. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Frank on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 9:11pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 9:06pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 7:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 3:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 3:10pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 2:34pm:

Still waiting on your detailed explanation of your strategy, Bobby... Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

as a prelude -

We need to copy Israel including:

1) Bring back conscription for compulsory military training
for all able bodied young people both men and women.

CMT is only training - it's not sending anyone to a war. Tsk, tsk, tsk, ::) ::)

You would need a very, very, very, careful publicity campaign to explain that different, Bobby. You domestic enemies would enjoy waging a publicity campaign against it. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

They are letting you drink even after your stroke, Bbwian?

Or are you SNEAKING your tipples?

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 9:22pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 9:06pm:

You would need a very, very, very, careful publicity campaign to explain that different, Bobby.
You domestic enemies would enjoy waging a publicity campaign against it. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

But it's a good way to sort out the traitors who wouldn't fight for their country. ;)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 10:01pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 9:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 9:06pm:

You would need a very, very, very, careful publicity campaign to explain that different, Bobby.
You domestic enemies would enjoy waging a publicity campaign against it. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

But it's a good way to sort out the traitors who wouldn't fight for their country. ;)

What a naive way of doing it, Bobby. Tell me, are you prepared to fight for your country and put on a green skin? I bet not. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 10:06pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 10:01pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 9:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 9:06pm:

You would need a very, very, very, careful publicity campaign to explain that different, Bobby.
You domestic enemies would enjoy waging a publicity campaign against it. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

But it's a good way to sort out the traitors who wouldn't fight for their country. ;)

What a naive way of doing it, Bobby. Tell me, are you prepared to fight for your country and put on a green skin? I bet not. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

I'm too old now but when I was 20 I would have been right into it.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bias_2012 on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 10:23pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 7:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 3:53pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 3:10pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 15^th, 2023 at 2:34pm:

Still waiting on your detailed explanation of your strategy, Bobby... Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

as a prelude -

We need to copy Israel including:

1) Bring back conscription for compulsory military training
for all able bodied young people both men and women.

CMT is only training - it's not sending anyone to a war. Tsk, tsk, tsk, ::) ::)

There'll be no more conscription because modern Human Rights will forbid a government from imposing a penalty for not registering for National Service

The penalty in the 60s was two years in jail ... show us a party that would be game to impose that today, or even at the outbreak of war?

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 10:27pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 10:23pm:

They wouldn't do it today -
there are too many pansies everywhere.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bias_2012 on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 10:32pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 10:27pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2023 at 10:23pm:

They wouldn't do it today -
there are too many pansies everywhere.

All flying their own ethnic national flags

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 21^st, 2023 at 11:20am

The only fiasco in this matter appears to be Bobby's opinion. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Belgarion on Aug 21^st, 2023 at 12:02pm

Conscription is a waste of time and resources. I have noticed that those who call loudest for it are also those least likely to be affected by it.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by The Grappler on Aug 21^st, 2023 at 2:43pm

If a real war breaks out, conscription will be back in - I recommend, as opposed to my previous statement that women etc would be turned away at first, all those who reckon they're so brave and tough etc - the tough-talking lesos, the courageous transgenders, the poofs still demanding equality, the heroic Black defenders of country - be in the first waves...

That'll soon clear up the mess the West is in.....

"Now come on, ladies - three miles up and three miles down on your first day here ... it's not so hard....."

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Sir Eoin O Fada on Aug 21^st, 2023 at 5:00pm

What’s all this talk about Nuclear submarines?
They’re steam boats just like all the other steam ships/boats, without the steam they can’t go anywhere.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Belgarion on Aug 21^st, 2023 at 5:30pm

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Aug 21^st, 2023 at 5:00pm:

What’s all this talk about Nuclear submarines?
They’re steam boats just like all the other steam ships/boats, without the steam they can’t go anywhere.

In essence this is true. It's the method of creating the steam that is disturbing to those that do not understand nuclear power.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bias_2012 on Aug 21^st, 2023 at 6:49pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Aug 21^st, 2023 at 2:43pm:

Not even if war breaks out. Conscription, as an option, is at the point of no return, it's out of the question. We are too divided as a nation, and by the time all the exemptions were specified, there'd hardly be anyone left to be conscripted

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 21^st, 2023 at 6:53pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Aug 21^st, 2023 at 6:49pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Aug 21^st, 2023 at 2:43pm:

Are you saying that we can't defend ourselves?

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bias_2012 on Aug 21^st, 2023 at 7:04pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 21^st, 2023 at 6:53pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Aug 21^st, 2023 at 6:49pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Aug 21^st, 2023 at 2:43pm:

Are you saying that we can't defend ourselves?

We'd have to be directly invaded before we'd have the will to defend ourselves

Even then, there'd be a mass exodus from Australia of millions catching planes and ships to escape Australia

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Frank on Aug 21^st, 2023 at 7:13pm

Invading Australia is not like invading Poland or Russia or France or Belgium.

The only time it was possible was when the locals were stone age savages.

But that doesnt mean that Australia cannot be subjugated. The Chinese have been trying it as we speak.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 21^st, 2023 at 7:21pm

Frank wrote on Aug 21^st, 2023 at 7:13pm:

It's quite possible as China has the largest navy in the world.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Belgarion on Aug 22^nd, 2023 at 9:43am

Bobby. wrote on Aug 21^st, 2023 at 7:21pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 21^st, 2023 at 7:13pm:

It's quite possible as China has the largest navy in the world.

It has been explained to you before why a Chinese invasion of Australia is not possible, yet still you persist with this fantasy. This not to say that the PRC is not a threat, but this threat is manifesting in other ways, like cyber attacks, buying political influence, trade wars and propaganda campaigns.

As for the PLAN being the largest in the world, this is true in numbers of vessels however the numbers are not a measure of power projection capability or overall effectiveness.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Sir Eoin O Fada on Aug 22^nd, 2023 at 6:14pm

Australia hasn’t got a hope in hell of defending itself, steam submarines or not.
China could invade using unarmed civilians in sampans; how would we stop them?

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 22^nd, 2023 at 7:47pm

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2023 at 6:14pm:

Australia hasn’t got a hope in hell of defending itself, steam submarines or not.
China could invade using unarmed civilians in sampans; how would we stop them?

They have already invaded us financially -
if you go to house auction you have to compete with Chinese
who always bid $50,000 more than you.
The rumor is that a lot of that is dirty money they laundered at casinos here.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 22^nd, 2023 at 9:03pm

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2023 at 6:14pm:

Australia hasn’t got a hope in hell of defending itself, steam submarines or not.
China could invade using unarmed civilians in sampans; how would we stop them?

The weather and starvation would stop them more effectively than anything we would do. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Belgarion on Aug 23^rd, 2023 at 10:23am

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2023 at 6:14pm:

Australia hasn’t got a hope in hell of defending itself, steam submarines or not.
China could invade using unarmed civilians in sampans; how would we stop them?

Read the previous posts on this matter. There are several of them explaining why a Chinese invasion is not possible.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 24^th, 2023 at 3:15pm

So, Bobby, what is your strategy? You hsve been given more than a chance to explain but have failed to do so. Does it exist? What is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 24^th, 2023 at 3:20pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 24^th, 2023 at 3:15pm:

So, Bobby, what is your strategy? You hsve been given more than a chance to explain but have failed to do so. Does it exist? What is it? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

I already told you:

as a prelude -

We need to copy Israel including:

1) Bring back conscription for compulsory military training
for all able bodied young people both men and women.

2) Design and produce as many of our own weapons systems as possible:
Tanks, SAMs, surface to surface missiles, precision artillery, rifles, ammunition
guided bombs, AWACs, launch our own military spy satellites, ICBMs,
(if a tinpot regime like NK can do it - so can we)
our own electronic warfare capability,
military ships and if possible our own submarines.

3) Build a nuclear reactor and nullify IAEA inspections -
have a policy of nuclear ambiguity.
Israel is not a member of the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) nor
has it allowed IAEA inspectors to visit its nuclear weapon sites.

4) Buy more fighter jets - have a huge air force.
Make more military runways and have hardened bunkers for all aircraft and maintenance.

5) make diplomatic efforts for arms reductions between China and the USA to lower tensions.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 24^th, 2023 at 4:58pm

As already explained, we are a long standing member of the NPT regime. We would be very silly if we withdrew, we would be amongst the Israelis and DPRK's of the world, Bobby. Are you prepared to weather the diplamtic storm we would have to edure?

Israel does allow the IAEA to inspect it's nuclear reactor. It has done so for the last 10 or so years, Bobby.

The Government is already purchasing SAMs, Anti-ship missiles, AAMs and ATGWs. Our market is too small to try and manufacture them ourselves. Same for tanks, MICVs and most ships.

Conscription without an existential threat facing us is a no-goer, for the already described reasons, Bobby.

Now, where are you going to put all these troops? We need more than just the preliminaries... Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Sir Eoin O Fada on Aug 24^th, 2023 at 6:39pm

“In October 2015, the Chinese-owned Landbridge Group won the bid for a lease of Port Darwin. The then Country Liberal-controlled Northern Territory Government under then Chief Minister Adam Giles granted the company a 99-year lease for A$506 million.” Wikipaedia.

Now there’ a start.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 24^th, 2023 at 8:29pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 24^th, 2023 at 4:58pm:

I have already dealt with all your points in detail. Tsk, tsk, tsk ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 24^th, 2023 at 10:19pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 24^th, 2023 at 8:29pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 24^th, 2023 at 4:58pm:

I have already dealt with all your points in detail. Tsk, tsk, tsk ::) ::)

Badly. When become PM you'll last about 10 minutes in the job. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 24^th, 2023 at 10:36pm

Brian,

Quote:

The Government is already purchasing SAMs, Anti-ship missiles, AAMs and ATGWs. Our market is too small to try and manufacture them ourselves. Same for tanks, MICVs and most ships.

That's why I said we should be selling weapons to offset our costs. ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 2:25pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 24^th, 2023 at 10:36pm:

Brian,

Quote:

The Government is already purchasing SAMs, Anti-ship missiles, AAMs and ATGWs. Our market is too small to try and manufacture them ourselves. Same for tanks, MICVs and most ships.

That's why I said we should be selling weapons to offset our costs. ::)

Who says they need them, Bobby? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 5:01pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 2:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 24^th, 2023 at 10:36pm:

Brian,

Quote:

The Government is already purchasing SAMs, Anti-ship missiles, AAMs and ATGWs. Our market is too small to try and manufacture them ourselves. Same for tanks, MICVs and most ships.

That's why I said we should be selling weapons to offset our costs. ::)

Who says they need them, Bobby? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Other countries need weapon systems badly.
The military industrial complex is the biggest game in town -
and we are hardly in it.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 8:21pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 5:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 2:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 24^th, 2023 at 10:36pm:

Brian,

Quote:

The Government is already purchasing SAMs, Anti-ship missiles, AAMs and ATGWs. Our market is too small to try and manufacture them ourselves. Same for tanks, MICVs and most ships.

That's why I said we should be selling weapons to offset our costs. ::)

Who says they need them, Bobby? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Other countries need weapon systems badly.
The military industrial complex is the biggest game in town -
and we are hardly in it.

We are ranked 11th or 12th in the world, Bobby. Not bad, considering our size and the Tories attitude to us building weapons. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 8:26pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 8:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 5:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 2:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 24^th, 2023 at 10:36pm:

Brian,

Quote:

The Government is already purchasing SAMs, Anti-ship missiles, AAMs and ATGWs. Our market is too small to try and manufacture them ourselves. Same for tanks, MICVs and most ships.

That's why I said we should be selling weapons to offset our costs. ::)

Who says they need them, Bobby? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Other countries need weapon systems badly.
The military industrial complex is the biggest game in town -
and we are hardly in it.

We are ranked 11th or 12th in the world, Bobby. Not bad, considering our size and the Tories attitude to us building weapons. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Yeah right - we make a few Bushmasters etc. ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 10:12pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 8:26pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 8:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 5:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 2:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 24^th, 2023 at 10:36pm:

Brian,

Quote:

The Government is already purchasing SAMs, Anti-ship missiles, AAMs and ATGWs. Our market is too small to try and manufacture them ourselves. Same for tanks, MICVs and most ships.

That's why I said we should be selling weapons to offset our costs. ::)

Who says they need them, Bobby? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Other countries need weapon systems badly.
The military industrial complex is the biggest game in town -
and we are hardly in it.

We are ranked 11th or 12th in the world, Bobby. Not bad, considering our size and the Tories attitude to us building weapons. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Yeah right - we make a few Bushmasters etc. ::)

You can check it yourself, Bobby, if you disbelieve me. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Australian arms exports from 2011 to 2020

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 10:45pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 10:12pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 8:26pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 8:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 5:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 2:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 24^th, 2023 at 10:36pm:

Brian,

Quote:

The Government is already purchasing SAMs, Anti-ship missiles, AAMs and ATGWs. Our market is too small to try and manufacture them ourselves. Same for tanks, MICVs and most ships.

That's why I said we should be selling weapons to offset our costs. ::)

Who says they need them, Bobby? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Other countries need weapon systems badly.
The military industrial complex is the biggest game in town -
and we are hardly in it.

We are ranked 11th or 12th in the world, Bobby. Not bad, considering our size and the Tories attitude to us building weapons. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Yeah right - we make a few Bushmasters etc. ::)

You can check it yourself, Bobby, if you disbelieve me. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Australian arms exports from 2011 to 2020

That's only pocket money for any large military corporation. ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 26^th, 2023 at 1:35pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 10:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 10:12pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 8:26pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 8:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 5:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 2:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 24^th, 2023 at 10:36pm:

Brian,

Quote:

The Government is already purchasing SAMs, Anti-ship missiles, AAMs and ATGWs. Our market is too small to try and manufacture them ourselves. Same for tanks, MICVs and most ships.

That's why I said we should be selling weapons to offset our costs. ::)

Who says they need them, Bobby? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Other countries need weapon systems badly.
The military industrial complex is the biggest game in town -
and we are hardly in it.

We are ranked 11th or 12th in the world, Bobby. Not bad, considering our size and the Tories attitude to us building weapons. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Yeah right - we make a few Bushmasters etc. ::)

You can check it yourself, Bobby, if you disbelieve me. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Australian arms exports from 2011 to 2020

That's only pocket money for any large military corporation. ::)

I accept your white flag, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 26^th, 2023 at 1:50pm

Brian,
let's take one company at random:

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/NOC/northrop-grumman/revenue

Northrop Grumman revenue for the twelve months ending June 30, 2023 was
$37.881 Billion, a 8.36% increase year-over-year.

Brian - you are forgiven
namaste

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 26^th, 2023 at 9:02pm

Oh, dearie, dearie, me, Bobby, you are getting desperate. I am not claiming we are the best, just that we are the 11th or 12th. How about you compare apples with apples, not oranges, hey? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 26^th, 2023 at 9:20pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 26^th, 2023 at 9:02pm:

Oh, dearie, dearie, me, Bobby, you are getting desperate. I am not claim we are the best, just that we are the 11th or 12th. How about you compare apples with apples, not oranges, hey? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

https://www.trade.gov/country-commercial-guides/australia-defense

Australia total military exports:
2022 estimated: $1 billion

Total military imports: $2.7 billion.

One military company in the USA:
https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/who-we-are.html#:~:text=2022%20Net%20Sales%3A%C2%A0%2466%20billion

Lockheed Martin.

$66 Billion 2022 Net Sales

Brian is forgiven
namaste

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 26^th, 2023 at 9:28pm

Oh, dearie, dearie, me, poor, poor, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Frank on Aug 26^th, 2023 at 9:31pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 26^th, 2023 at 9:28pm:

Oh, dearie, dearie, me, poor, poor, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

If you couldnt say dearie me, poor poor, roll your eyes and tut-tut you would be dumb struck, cockwomble.
You are amazingly simple minded. Laughable. You have never progressed beyond being a 9 year old pimply milk monitor.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 26^th, 2023 at 10:38pm

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 29^th, 2023 at 9:56pm

Again, I accept your white flag, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Aug 29^th, 2023 at 10:01pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 29^th, 2023 at 9:56pm:

Again, I accept your white flag, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

dear Brian,
many blessings.
I hath given unto thee my advice for our country -
not that it matters much as it will not be heeded -
and this leaves us in a precarious predicament as regards
the imperialist territorial ambitions of the Chinese.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Aug 30^th, 2023 at 3:40pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 29^th, 2023 at 10:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 29^th, 2023 at 9:56pm:

Again, I accept your white flag, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

What, "imperial territorial ambitions of the Chinese?" Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 3^rd, 2023 at 2:03pm

I accept your flag of surrender, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Sep 4^th, 2023 at 5:27pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 30^th, 2023 at 3:40pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 29^th, 2023 at 10:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 29^th, 2023 at 9:56pm:

Again, I accept your white flag, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

What, "imperial territorial ambitions of the Chinese?" Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

It's obvious Brian.
I saw them on TV on Sunday - 60 Minutes - did you see it? ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 4^th, 2023 at 10:19pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4^th, 2023 at 5:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 30^th, 2023 at 3:40pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 29^th, 2023 at 10:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 29^th, 2023 at 9:56pm:

Again, I accept your white flag, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

What, "imperial territorial ambitions of the Chinese?" Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

It's obvious Brian.
I saw them on TV on Sunday - 60 Minutes - did you see it? ::)

Nope. I rarely bother to watch commercial TV. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Sep 4^th, 2023 at 10:21pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 4^th, 2023 at 10:19pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4^th, 2023 at 5:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 30^th, 2023 at 3:40pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 29^th, 2023 at 10:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 29^th, 2023 at 9:56pm:

Again, I accept your white flag, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

What, "imperial territorial ambitions of the Chinese?" Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

It's obvious Brian.
I saw them on TV on Sunday - 60 Minutes - did you see it? ::)

Nope. I rarely bother to watch commercial TV. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

the trailer is here:

https://9now.nine.com.au/60-minutes/inside-the-nuclearpowered-submarine-at-the-centre-of-the-controversial-aukus-deal/ad8bdfea-a8be-4ebd-9619-28cf25a896ee

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Sep 4^th, 2023 at 11:13pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4^th, 2023 at 10:21pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 4^th, 2023 at 10:19pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 4^th, 2023 at 5:27pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 30^th, 2023 at 3:40pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 29^th, 2023 at 10:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 29^th, 2023 at 9:56pm:

Again, I accept your white flag, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

What, "imperial territorial ambitions of the Chinese?" Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

It's obvious Brian.
I saw them on TV on Sunday - 60 Minutes - did you see it? ::)

Nope. I rarely bother to watch commercial TV. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

the trailer is here:

https://9now.nine.com.au/60-minutes/inside-the-nuclearpowered-submarine-at-the-centre-of-the-controversial-aukus-deal/ad8bdfea-a8be-4ebd-9619-28cf25a896ee

Typical commercialism. Nothing new there at all. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Jovial Monk on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 7:42am

LOL! The little twerp once accused me of getting my ideas from Sixty Minutes. I don’t have a TV here. Do have one in Adelaide, will use it to watch some Youtubes on a bigger screen once I retieve it. I think Booby gets his crap ideas from commercial TV ;D

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Bobby. on Sep 5^th, 2023 at 5:49pm

60 Minutes discussed this too:

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/07/21/top-republican-blocks-bidens-aukus-pact-00107480

Top Republican blocks Biden’s nuclear submarine pact in bid for more defense dollars.

Wicker, despite the fact that he supports AUKUS, blocked a plan to fast-track Congress’s authorization to sell Australia three Virginia-class attack subs, a major pillar of the multinational agreement announced this year. He’s arguing that for U.S. submarine manufacturers to be able to boost production enough to supply both the U.S. Navy and Australia, the industry needs more investment from the federal government.

“It makes sense to be sure we have enough submarines for our own security needs before we endorse that pillar of the [AUKUS] agreement,” Wicker, the Senate Armed Services Committee’s ranking member, said in a brief interview. “The president needs to submit a supplemental request to give us an adequate number of submarines.”

https://antinuclear.net/2023/07/23/2-b1-us-republicans-threaten-to-block-aukus-deal/

Australia’s AUKUS submarine deal with the United States has hit a hurdle with Senate Republicans threatening to block the sale unless President Joe Biden boosts funding for the domestic production line.

Republican members of the Senate Armed Services Committee on Friday moved to block legislation which would enable the sale of US Virginia-class submarines to Australia.

Under the AUKUS deal, Washington was set to sell Canberra between three and five of its own nuclear submarines in the 2030s before Australia begins building a new class of boat with Britain.

But the ranking Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, senator Roger Wicker, said Biden needed to commit more money to guarantee “we have enough submarines for our own security before we endorse that pillar of the agreement”.

Wicker said Australia’s commitment of US$3 billion ($4.4 billion) for the US production line would not be enough to meet the needs of both countries.

“The president needs to submit a supplemental request to give us an adequate number of submarines,” he told US news outlet

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Frank on Jan 21^st, 2024 at 6:05pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 8:21pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 5:01pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 25^th, 2023 at 2:25pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 24^th, 2023 at 10:36pm:

Brian,

Quote:

The Government is already purchasing SAMs, Anti-ship missiles, AAMs and ATGWs. Our market is too small to try and manufacture them ourselves. Same for tanks, MICVs and most ships.

That's why I said we should be selling weapons to offset our costs. ::)

Who says they need them, Bobby? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

Other countries need weapon systems badly.
The military industrial complex is the biggest game in town -
and we are hardly in it.

We are ranked 11th or 12th in the world, Bobby. Not bad, considering our size and the Tories attitude to us building weapons. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)

You are a Tory, Bbwian

Tories
By the 1640s, the term was used in the English language to refer to dispossessed Irish Catholics. It was also used to refer to isolated Irish rebels and guerrillas resisting Oliver Cromwell's conquest of Ireland, who were allied with Cavaliers through treaty with the Parliament of Confederate Ireland. It was later used to refer to dispossessed Catholic Irish in Ulster following the Restoration. Tory was also used to refer to a rapparee and later applied to Confederates or Cavaliers in arms.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Brian Ross on Jan 21^st, 2024 at 6:28pm

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by Sir Eoin O Fada on Jan 25^th, 2024 at 8:07pm

Frank,
Think of the advances that are being made in steam technology, the subs are test grounds, so to speak, for the development of quieter steam engines and how to leave less of a thermal trace from the cooling water.
Think progress.

Title: Re: The submarine fiasco continues.
Post by JaSin of Peanut Butter on Jan 25^th, 2024 at 8:13pm

Just in today regarding the Subs from someone in the Military I spoke to today via a lunch gathering.

America can't 'afford' to let go of 'just 3' Subs from their fleet.
Looks like the USA is going to use their x100 Get Out of Jail Free Cards to shaft Australia.

Right from the start, we should have contracted Nihon (Japan for the idiots) which would have been faster production than Germany, though slightly not as superior workmanship as Germany.
But because this caused 'offence' to many 'old diggers' who fought them in wars, etc.
We went with the hapless French and ditched them and now the USA is about to ditch us.

Stupid Australia. ::) ::) ::)