Quote:

The conventional narrative about Australian Christianity is that Pentecostal churches – most famously, Hillsong – are bucking the trend of declining attendance at the big denominations (such as Catholic and Anglican churches). That in fact, Pentecostal churches continue to grow. This narrative is based on the steady rise of people indicating affiliation with Pentecostal Christianity from the 1990s, through to 2016. After the 2016 census, sociologists Bouma and Halafoff noted a rise in those claiming affiliation with Pentecostal churches, alongside the rise in the religious “nones”. But the most recent Australian census shows a decrease in Pentecostal affiliation. Gender inequality and leadership abuses of power seem to be implicated. But more research is needed to confirm who is leaving Pentecostal churches, and why.

https://theconversation.com/were-told-pentecostal-churches-like-hillsong-are-growing-in-australia-but-theyre-not-anymore-is-there-a-gender-problem

Only the latest census illustrates this.

I know nothing (and happy that way) about Pentecostal churches. but big congregations = big donations which can cause problems.

Our entire family and extended family left mainly because the congregations were just ridiculously large. You were easily lost in the massive crowd.

Don’t get me wrong though ... the music and church service content was awesome. Well mainly awesome.

There were a few issues which made ME in particular feel very uncomfortable. These other issues mainly revolved around the large sums of money being donated by honest Australians through the biblical means of tithing. Tithing is fine because it’s merely your free will after tax donation towards the work of the church you attend.

My issue was that many church services were basically ABOUT tithing. I didn’t like that. The fact that you could donate via bank transfer any time you like irrespective of your physical incapacity (those disabled or because of Covid19 etc) from the comfort of your home was made even easier thanks to Covid19 and lockdown. That then became an opportunity to market church tithing at a time when no physical services were being conducted ie minimal expenses were being incurred by the church.

Another (connected) issue was this : the church financial reports. These were made available every financial year. To everyone. It was up to you to avail yourself of the link and download the report.

Well you all know me...I like to (micro) analyse large slabs of money (well I look at every cent really). And so I downloaded the entire document ... and printed it out. After that I spent a few days reading it. Then I read it again. I highlighted a few issues I had with it and did the unthinkable: I found I had became a silent non complaining/non nagging housewife and mother. I guess I was struggling to accept what I had discovered.

Anyway that’s when my husband (the forensic accountant who is Agnostic and Left Wing) started wondering wtf was wrong with me. I shouldn’t have done this next bit but I did because I wanted his take on the matter. I showed him what I found in those financial reports. Let’s just say that after that discussion his response was as follows : he became angry with the church and started on religion and Christianity and God and the Bible. It’s very rare that my husband loses his cool. However ... when he does I know it’s better to stay silent and let the man vent.

AusGeoff wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 1:28am:

Sorry to interject here, but..... Can someone please in a couple of sentences please fill me in on this ongoing Lisa-is-Larry-and-not-a-woman and is really-a-man stuff? It seems to crop up in ever second thread here, so I'm wondering why. Thanks.     :)

Check out my last post here for your answer.

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1677285778/155#155

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 27^th, 2023 at 9:26am:

Our entire family and extended family left mainly because the congregations were just ridiculously large. You were easily lost in the massive crowd. Don’t get me wrong though ... the music and church service content was awesome. Well mainly awesome. There were a few issues which made ME in particular feel very uncomfortable. These other issues mainly revolved around the large sums of money being donated by honest Australians through the biblical means of tithing. Tithing is fine because it’s merely your free will after tax donation towards the work of the church you attend. My issue was that many church services were basically ABOUT tithing. I didn’t like that. The fact that you could donate via bank transfer any time you like irrespective of your physical incapacity (those disabled or because of Covid19 etc) from the comfort of your home was made even easier thanks to Covid19 and lockdown. That then became an opportunity to market church tithing at a time when no physical services were being conducted ie minimal expenses were being incurred by the church. Another (connected) issue was this : the church financial reports. These were made available every financial year. To everyone. It was up to you to avail yourself of the link and download the report. Well you all know me...I like to (micro) analyse large slabs of money (well I look at every cent really). And so I downloaded the entire document ... and printed it out. After that I spent a few days reading it. Then I read it again. I highlighted a few issues I had with it and did the unthinkable: I found I had became a silent non complaining/non nagging housewife and mother. I guess I was struggling to accept what I had discovered. Anyway that’s when my husband (the forensic accountant who is Agnostic and Left Wing) started wondering wtf was wrong with me. I shouldn’t have done this next bit but I did because I wanted his take on the matter. I showed him what I found in those financial reports. Let’s just say that after that discussion his response was as follows : he became angry with the church and started on religion and Christianity and God and the Bible. It’s very rare that my husband loses his cool. However ... when he does I know it’s better to stay silent and let the man vent.

That's really interesting and unfortunately I entirely believe it

Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 28^th, 2023 at 9:22pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 27th, 2023 at 9:26am: Our entire family and extended family left mainly because the congregations were just ridiculously large. You were easily lost in the massive crowd. Don’t get me wrong though ... the music and church service content was awesome. Well mainly awesome. There were a few issues which made ME in particular feel very uncomfortable. These other issues mainly revolved around the large sums of money being donated by honest Australians through the biblical means of tithing. Tithing is fine because it’s merely your free will after tax donation towards the work of the church you attend. My issue was that many church services were basically ABOUT tithing. I didn’t like that. The fact that you could donate via bank transfer any time you like irrespective of your physical incapacity (those disabled or because of Covid19 etc) from the comfort of your home was made even easier thanks to Covid19 and lockdown. That then became an opportunity to market church tithing at a time when no physical services were being conducted ie minimal expenses were being incurred by the church. Another (connected) issue was this : the church financial reports. These were made available every financial year. To everyone. It was up to you to avail yourself of the link and download the report. Well you all know me...I like to (micro) analyse large slabs of money (well I look at every cent really). And so I downloaded the entire document ... and printed it out. After that I spent a few days reading it. Then I read it again. I highlighted a few issues I had with it and did the unthinkable: I found I had became a silent non complaining/non nagging housewife and mother. I guess I was struggling to accept what I had discovered. Anyway that’s when my husband (the forensic accountant who is Agnostic and Left Wing) started wondering wtf was wrong with me. I shouldn’t have done this next bit but I did because I wanted his take on the matter. I showed him what I found in those financial reports. Let’s just say that after that discussion his response was as follows : he became angry with the church and started on religion and Christianity and God and the Bible. It’s very rare that my husband loses his cool. However ... when he does I know it’s better to stay silent and let the man vent. That's really interesting and unfortunately I entirely believe it

You’ve probably heard similar type stories like this Sprint. I will say this: being a Christian woman today is very challenging especially if your husband isn’t. I love the man dearly for so many reasons : he has a good heart, he’s honest and genuine and makes me laugh! He also works VERY hard and together we have achieved amazing financial goals as partners so we definitely make a great team. My entire family (in Australia and Europe) love him to bits.

It’s JUST this 1 issue of becoming a Christian.  For me it’s the easiest decision in the world - investing my all (whilst here in this temporary mortal coil) with 1 ultimate goal in mind : to see and forever be with Jesus Christ and those who never lost their faith (my poor mother and grandmother come to mind).  Our kids are fine - they believe. And get this ...my husband even thinks it’s marvellous that we’re believers. Everything about him is genuine ...and that includes his genuine inability to see and accept Jesus Christ into his heart and life.

Unfortunately churches like this have a lot to answer for. They have the ability to create stumbling blocks for genuine people. Anyway ...

Lisa Jones wrote on Mar 1^st, 2023 at 1:21am:

.................  Unfortunately churches like this have a lot to answer for. They have the ability to create stumbling blocks for genuine people. Anyway ...

That is perfectly phrased. Exactly what Jesus said.

IN my bible (from memory) the word religion is used about 6 times. Almost always with a bad connotation.
The word 'Spiritual' is used many 100's of times. Every time with a good background.

Guess what the Bible is telling you.