"Prof Barton said Australia and the wider world was now past the “tipping point”, with more than half of counter-terrorism measures now focused on battling far-right conspiracy ideologies."

Inside Australian sovereign citizens’ twisted chat group messages where conspiracy theories swirl

Australia’s “sovereign citizen” community has made headline after headline recently following a spate of unhinged incidents.

Now, attention is turning to the bizarre movement – and what drives its members to commit such extreme acts of civil disobedience.

The movement gained national attention in December when the murderous Train family gunned down two young constables and an innocent neighbour during a routine missing person inquiry.

;D ;D ;D

That news article is nothing more than a fear mongering.
Soveriegn citizens can and always will exist.
Funny how they'll lump the trains in with any story that they want to turn into a drama piece.

Watch those unlicensed old ladies.
They're likely to pull out a rifle and shoot you.
Especially the old darlings on the Gold Coast.


As for people disobeying police orders....
When cops open fire on the general public then I don't blame people for not trusting them.
Just because they wear that badge does not make them good people. Most cops today are dead set dickheads.
We've seen that in recent times with gangs of police assaulting innocent civilians.
The cops have a lot of work to do with the public if they want the trust of the public back.
We will never forget what they are, and who they work for.

Now chop up my post and make me out to be an apologist, just like the news article ties this old lady to the trains...  ;D ;D ;D


Anything to take the attention off the fact this country is now a communist state, much the same as North Korea.

The article says:
Australian sovereign citizen chats are filled with a vast stream of disparate theories,
with one major group sharing theories as diverse as chemtrails,
the “5G apocalypse”, the “transgender agenda”, anti-vax rhetoric and QAnon ideas.



https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/125/447/063/original/2d25be069f76d435.jpg

This is how the corporate government get people onside so they can attack freedoms and free speech.
Just look at that disgraced ex NZ PM.
Horsehead reckons she was the only truth.
Governments have been lying to us for years, and now the dumb bitch wants to be the pinnacle of truth. Bwahahahaha.

No wonder people are turning on governments.
They're all lying through their teeth on a daily basis while they double down on taking everything we have.

there will be no gst introduced if I become prime minister.
Nek minute.  ;D


Why can't they just tell the truth for a change?
Come out and say that they want us as battery hens.
Nope, won't happen. Instead they are sneaky in their actions and just chip away slowly so by the time we realise it's to late to fight back..... Or they just do deals behind closed doors... TPP anyone!


The government has brought this on themselves but are blaming us for their incompetent behaviour.

Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 1:37pm:

This is how the corporate government get people onside so they can attack freedoms and free speech. Just look at that disgraced ex NZ PM. Horsehead reckons she was the only truth. Governments have been lying to us for years, and now the dumb bitch wants to be the pinnacle of truth. Bwahahahaha. No wonder people are turning on governments. They're all lying through their teeth on a daily basis while they double down on taking everything we have. there will be no gst introduced if I become prime minister. Nek minute.  ;D Why can't they just tell the truth for a change? Come out and say that they want us as battery hens. Nope, won't happen. Instead they are sneaky in their actions and just chip away slowly so by the time we realise it's to late to fight back..... Or they just do deals behind closed doors... TPP anyone! The government has brought this on themselves but are blaming us for their incompetent behaviour.

Well said,
doth anyone denieth the existence of the Deep State Cabal?

https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/122/190/355/original/05a242f77a9d690a.jpg

https://www.abhafoundation.org/assets/books/html/1984/48.html


A few agents of the Thought Police moved always among them, spreading false rumours and marking down and eliminating the few individuals who were judged capable of becoming dangerous; but no attempt was made to indoctrinate them with the ideology of the Party. It was not desirable that the proles should have strong political feelings. All that was required of them was a primitive patriotism which could be appealed to whenever it was necessary to make them accept longer working-hours or shorter rations. And even when they became discontented, as they sometimes did, their discontent led nowhere, because being without general ideas, they could only focus it on petty specific grievances. The larger evils invariably escaped their notice. The great majority of proles did not even have telescreens in their homes. Even the civil police interfered with them very little.



https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/125/710/855/original/4c7a3eca350d95c6.jpg

"... more than half of counter-terrorism measures now focused on battling far-right conspiracy ideologies ..."

gotta look out for those right wing nutters

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 2:23pm:

"... more than half of counter-terrorism measures now focused on battling far-right conspiracy ideologies ..."

Meanwhile Alice Springs goes up in smoke.
Good on you cops.

If it ain't white, there's no plight.  ;)

Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 3:07pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 2:23pm: "... more than half of counter-terrorism measures now focused on battling far-right conspiracy ideologies ..." Meanwhile Alice Springs goes up in smoke. Good on you cops.

Different cops.

"more than half of counter-terrorism measures now focused on battling far-right conspiracy ideologies"

Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 1:37pm:

This is how the corporate government get people onside so they can attack freedoms and free speech.

So how do you propose to engender the common welfare, and collective security (coughs)....


Quote:

Just look at that disgraced ex NZ PM. Horsehead reckons she was the only truth. Governments have been lying to us for years, and now the dumb bitch wants to be the pinnacle of truth. Bwahahahaha.

She didn't understand the neo-liberal/neo classical economic system she was working in, which is the reason why she couldn't reduce poverty and build more social housing, as she promised.

Hence her ratings plummeted.


Quote:

No wonder people are turning on governments. They're all lying through their teeth on a daily basis while they double down on taking everything we have.

Not quite: the rich are getting richer, but politicians don't understand why.


Quote:

there will be no gst introduced if I become prime minister.

Well, governments are forced to tax in order to spend.

As long as you accept that proposition, you are part of the problem; the system which pits taxpayers against taxpayers is the culprit.   


Quote:

Why can't they just tell the truth for a change?

because they, like you,  think household budgets are the same as a currency-issuing government's budget.



Quote:

Come out and say that they want us as battery hens.

Adern genuinely thought she would be able to reduce poverty in NZ, just by stating it as a goal (while her political opponents just shrug it off as 'unrealistic')  thinking the population will agree to tax increases to better support the poor.  The population will NOT agree to tax increases, as parties of the Left always find out eventually.  


Quote:

Nope, won't happen. Instead they are sneaky in their actions and just chip away slowly so by the time we realise it's to late to fight back..... Or they just do deals behind closed doors... TPP anyone!

The trade system is also based on neoclassical free trade
ideology, to enrich wealthy corporations which wield  more power than governments. 


Quote:

The government has brought this on themselves but are blaming us for their incompetent behaviour.

We will need to overthrow the current dominant neoliberal/neoclassical economic system, to improve the general welfare.

>

Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 1:37pm:

Just look at that disgraced ex NZ PM. Horsehead reckons she was the only truth. Governments have been lying to us for years, and now the dumb bitch wants to be the pinnacle of truth. Bwahahahaha.

The number of posters here on a politics forum who can't research a quote's context should stick to Twitter, or to reading the labels of soup cans.

Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 12:43pm:

;D ;D ;D That news article is nothing more than a fear mongering. Soveriegn citizens can and always will exist. Funny how they'll lump the trains in with any story that they want to turn into a drama piece. Watch those unlicensed old ladies. They're likely to pull out a rifle and shoot you. Especially the old darlings on the Gold Coast. As for people disobeying police orders.... When cops open fire on the general public then I don't blame people for not trusting them. Just because they wear that badge does not make them good people. Most cops today are dead set dickheads. We've seen that in recent times with gangs of police assaulting innocent civilians. The cops have a lot of work to do with the public if they want the trust of the public back. We will never forget what they are, and who they work for. Now chop up my post and make me out to be an apologist, just like the news article ties this old lady to the trains...  ;D ;D ;D Anything to take the attention off the fact this country is now a communist state, much the same as North Korea.

Except that it isn't.

Not  even close.

Well let's hope its a WWW.COMmunist State here.
Egalitarianism will be so proud.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/rofling.gif

'Right Wing Ideologies" don't kill people... terrorists kill people... this strand is based on pure hyperbole and dog whistling...

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 6:58pm:

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/rofling.gif

Thanks for your picture, but it doesn't shine light on the causes of the problems in Alice Springs, or why Adern's ratings plummeted in NZ. 

Try understanding the issues for blacks who are attempting "to live in two worlds"  (as per the Uluru statement) , to preserve their culture, while they have been relegated to living on the dole, which is our culture's way of dealing with those who can't compete in neoliberal markets. 

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 7:00pm:

'Right Wing Ideologies" don't kill people... terrorists kill people... this strand is based on pure hyperbole and dog whistling...

Wrong: the ideology of individual freedom above the common welfare (iow, RW)  kills people. Own up to it.

The US is the supreme example, with the demand to carry regarded as a 'right' for "free people", while half the population is living paycheck to paycheck, the ultimate financial insecurity.   

>

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 7:06pm:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 6:58pm: http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/rofling.gif Thanks for your picture, but it doesn't shine light on the causes of the problems in Alice Springs, or why Adern's ratings plummeted in NZ.  Try understanding the issues for blacks who are attempting "to live in two worlds"  (as per the Uluru statement) , to preserve their culture, while they have been relegated to living on the dole, which is our culture's way of dealing with those who can't compete in neoliberal markets.

It's easy.

You have Aborigines who wish to be known by their cultural names.
Then you have Aborigines who live via the Media world which sees them as ...'Black'.

South Africa
The Boers saw their fellow locals as Zulu, Xhosa, Shona, etc
The British saw them as 'Blacks'.

So you tell me?
Who is the 'real' culprit in all this Racism of 'Black' & White?
...Western culture can ONLY see 'Asia' (culture) and 'Black' (Race)
and the Media supports that view of the world up there.

You need another Medium, another form of European perception to see something like Africa & Yellow instead. ;)

Jasin wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 7:14pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 7:06pm: Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 6:58pm: http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/rofling.gif Thanks for your picture, but it doesn't shine light on the causes of the problems in Alice Springs, or why Adern's ratings plummeted in NZ.  Try understanding the issues for blacks who are attempting "to live in two worlds"  (as per the Uluru statement) , to preserve their culture, while they have been relegated to living on the dole, which is our culture's way of dealing with those who can't compete in neoliberal markets.  It's easy. You have Aborigines who wish to be known by their cultural names. Then you have Aborigines who live via the Media world which sees them as ...'Black'. South Africa The Boers saw their fellow locals as Zulu, Xhosa, Shona, etc The British saw them as 'Blacks'. So you tell me? Who is the 'real' culprit in all this Racism of 'Black' & White? ...Western culture can ONLY see 'Asia' (culture) and 'Black' (Race) and the Media supports that view of the world up there. You need another Medium, another form of European perception to see something like Africa & Yellow instead. ;)

Your meds must be real good shyte

because you sure talk some drivel.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 4:25pm:

Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 1:37pm: Just look at that disgraced ex NZ PM. Horsehead reckons she was the only truth. Governments have been lying to us for years, and now the dumb bitch wants to be the pinnacle of truth. Bwahahahaha. The number of posters here on a politics forum who can't research a quote's context should stick to Twitter, or to reading the labels of soup cans.

Research a quotes context???
She said it loud and clear.
Funny though. She likened speech to an act of war.
Seems she got it....  ;D ;D ;D


Never had twitter or any poisonous shyte like that.
Clearly you're right into the MSM and the propaganda they pump out.
Good for you.
Thankfully there are others out there that aren't pissing their pants while licking the windows of the local television stations.
As for reading labels on soup cans.... Jesus, how fkkn old are you?  :o

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 7:06pm:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 6:58pm: http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/rofling.gif Thanks for your picture, but it doesn't shine light on the causes of the problems in Alice Springs, or why Adern's ratings plummeted in NZ.  Try understanding the issues for blacks who are attempting "to live in two worlds"  (as per the Uluru statement) , to preserve their culture, while they have been relegated to living on the dole, which is our culture's way of dealing with those who can't compete in neoliberal markets.

Let's see now - what are the causes of the problems in Alice Springs..... that's a hard one...... let's see now..... I'll try to keep it short......... too much drinking.... too much steeping in a culture of violence .... poor parenting and parental control .... disastrous family life that ends up with 42.2% of the 45,000 children in care being (gasps) Aboriginal ...... tribal differences (same here between our local lot and 'up the road' one town or further up where there are three tribal lots and they feud constantly) ... the carefully concealed program of developing the brushfire war of terrorism against Whitey in the rather stupid hope of that forcing a positive vote for a 'voice' through fear of consequences of a NO vote..... same again with the rather stupid hope of (gasp) driving Whitey out of the Terr-Uh'Tree, something clearly aided and abetted by the 'government' up there with its 90 degree list to black end tekin' beck their lend, mete, and also by Federal Labor!!  One thing you are seeing in the terr-uh-tree is what happens when the majority Blacks vote majority for those who support their way of doing things..... also what happens when you permit a stupid law system to put a cop on trial for killing in self-defence just because the perpetrator was of a certajn colour/social group/ethnicity and let them get away with demands for 'payback' meaning threats of death to that officer....... and all the whoop-whoopers in favour say that the voice etc is not special rights and privileges, not to mention even more free money, to a certain group along the same lines.  They say on the one hand there can be no division along lines of race etc, then set about creating exactly that.

Now the Ardern... well... you see..... the smarmy army idea of a co-operative government with the Maori and the Pakeha and offering the Maori a heap of good stuff like houses etc.... just hasn't worked out with reduced crime rates and such... and so the Pakeha and the Maori are waking up to this paper-thin ideologically driven sheila style social science founded program..... giving Jake The Mus a better house won't stop the problems..... and you see the exact same utter stupidity being played out here in Australia as we speak....  ;)

Phew - you really come up with the hard questions, don't you?

https://media.tenor.com/ZiVl8Cttpd0AAAAC/laughing-baby.gif

Jasin wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 7:14pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 7:06pm: Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 6:58pm: http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/rofling.gif Thanks for your picture, but it doesn't shine light on the causes of the problems in Alice Springs, or why Adern's ratings plummeted in NZ.  Try understanding the issues for blacks who are attempting "to live in two worlds"  (as per the Uluru statement) , to preserve their culture, while they have been relegated to living on the dole, which is our culture's way of dealing with those who can't compete in neoliberal markets.  It's easy. You have Aborigines who wish to be known by their cultural names. Then you have Aborigines who live via the Media world which sees them as ...'Black'. South Africa The Boers saw their fellow locals as Zulu, Xhosa, Shona, etc The British saw them as 'Blacks'. So you tell me? Who is the 'real' culprit in all this Racism of 'Black' & White? ...Western culture can ONLY see 'Asia' (culture) and 'Black' (Race) and the Media supports that view of the world up there. You need another Medium, another form of European perception to see something like Africa & Yellow instead. ;)

South Africans, Boers and Poms now?  WTF has any of that to do with dear old Oz?  You expect us all to know by which pronoun any given cheer wants to be known when they are all mixed up all over the place?

Gnads wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 7:24pm:

Jasin wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 7:14pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 7:06pm: Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 6:58pm: http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/rofling.gif Thanks for your picture, but it doesn't shine light on the causes of the problems in Alice Springs, or why Adern's ratings plummeted in NZ.  Try understanding the issues for blacks who are attempting "to live in two worlds"  (as per the Uluru statement) , to preserve their culture, while they have been relegated to living on the dole, which is our culture's way of dealing with those who can't compete in neoliberal markets.  It's easy. You have Aborigines who wish to be known by their cultural names. Then you have Aborigines who live via the Media world which sees them as ...'Black'. South Africa The Boers saw their fellow locals as Zulu, Xhosa, Shona, etc The British saw them as 'Blacks'. So you tell me? Who is the 'real' culprit in all this Racism of 'Black' & White? ...Western culture can ONLY see 'Asia' (culture) and 'Black' (Race) and the Media supports that view of the world up there. You need another Medium, another form of European perception to see something like Africa & Yellow instead. ;) Your meds must be real good shyte because you sure talk some drivel.

And yet you talk 'nothing'.
Because you know 'nothing'.
You're just a shadow of what I write.
Pissy little words of spite.
Afraid, in the dark - that I just might be right.
But nah.
You're just an 'American' down under and nothing more.
;D

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 7:36pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 7:06pm: Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 6:58pm: http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/rofling.gif Thanks for your picture, but it doesn't shine light on the causes of the problems in Alice Springs, or why Adern's ratings plummeted in NZ.  Try understanding the issues for blacks who are attempting "to live in two worlds"  (as per the Uluru statement) , to preserve their culture, while they have been relegated to living on the dole, which is our culture's way of dealing with those who can't compete in neoliberal markets.  Let's see now - what are the causes of the problems in Alice Springs..... that's a hard one...... let's see now..... I'll try to keep it short......... too much drinking.... too much steeping in a culture of violence .... poor parenting and parental control .... disastrous family life that ends up with 42.2% of the 45,000 children in care being (gasps) Aboriginal ...... tribal differences (same here between our local lot and 'up the road' one town or further up where there are three tribal lots and they feud constantly) ... the carefully concealed program of developing the brushfire war of terrorism against Whitey in the rather stupid hope of that forcing a positive vote for a 'voice' through fear of consequences of a NO vote..... same again with the rather stupid hope of (gasp) driving Whitey out of the Terr-Uh'Tree, something clearly aided and abetted by the 'government' up there with its 90 degree list to black end tekin' beck their lend, mete, and also by Federal Labor!!  One thing you are seeing in the terr-uh-tree is what happens when the majority Blacks vote majority for those who support their way of doing things..... also what happens when you permit a stupid law system to put a cop on trial for killing in self-defence just because the perpetrator was of a certajn colour/social group/ethnicity and let them get away with demands for 'payback' meaning threats of death to that officer....... and all the whoop-whoopers in favour say that the voice etc is not special rights and privileges, not to mention even more free money, to a certain group along the same lines.  They say on the one hand there can be no division along lines of race etc, then set about creating exactly that. Now the Ardern... well... you see..... the smarmy army idea of a co-operative government with the Maori and the Pakeha and offering the Maori a heap of good stuff like houses etc.... just hasn't worked out with reduced crime rates and such... and so the Pakeha and the Maori are waking up to this paper-thin ideologically driven sheila style social science founded program..... giving Jake The Mus a better house won't stop the problems..... and you see the exact same utter stupidity being played out here in Australia as we speak....  ;) Phew - you really come up with the hard questions, don't you? https://media.tenor.com/ZiVl8Cttpd0AAAAC/laughing-baby.gif

Whether they are hard or not, you certainly don't have the answers to eradicating welfare dependency and the associated crime.

And as for poverty reduction and provision of social housing in NZ:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/the-big-promises-jacinda-didn-t-keep-20230122-p5cej5.html

NationalHousing affordability
OPINION
The big promises Jacinda didn’t keep
Roshena Campbell

"Her other policy offerings to New Zealanders were not extensive but the most important was a promise to tackle New Zealand’s housing crisis because as she said as opposition leader, “Too many families are missing out on buying homes”.

Of course the MSM are great at criticizing politicians of all stripes, but have no clue WHY she couldn't improve home ownership rates or provision of social housing.
9quick google)
" In New Zealand, the association between poverty and benefit receipt is strong, and Māori and Pacific People are disproportionately adversely affected..."

So welfare dependency is the problem in NZ as well.

And poverty is not just confined to Oz blacks and NZ Maoris:

https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/other/is-the-uk-s-poverty-problem-worse-than-other-rich-nations/ss-AA16Dw5j?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=326ba5b3827d4e3c881ab689a0466eb0

Is the UK's poverty problem worse than other rich nations?

Jasin wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 7:47pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 7:24pm: Jasin wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 7:14pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 7:06pm: Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 6:58pm: http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/rofling.gif Thanks for your picture, but it doesn't shine light on the causes of the problems in Alice Springs, or why Adern's ratings plummeted in NZ.  Try understanding the issues for blacks who are attempting "to live in two worlds"  (as per the Uluru statement) , to preserve their culture, while they have been relegated to living on the dole, which is our culture's way of dealing with those who can't compete in neoliberal markets.  It's easy. You have Aborigines who wish to be known by their cultural names. Then you have Aborigines who live via the Media world which sees them as ...'Black'. South Africa The Boers saw their fellow locals as Zulu, Xhosa, Shona, etc The British saw them as 'Blacks'. So you tell me? Who is the 'real' culprit in all this Racism of 'Black' & White? ...Western culture can ONLY see 'Asia' (culture) and 'Black' (Race) and the Media supports that view of the world up there. You need another Medium, another form of European perception to see something like Africa & Yellow instead. ;) Your meds must be real good shyte because you sure talk some drivel. And yet you talk 'nothing'. Because you know 'nothing'. You're just a shadow of what I write. Pissy little words of spite. Afraid, in the dark - that I just might be right. But nah. You're just an 'American' down under and nothing more. ;D

Plaigerised shyte?  ;D ;D

You're on your way to Wanker of the Year.

Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 12:43pm:

...Anything to take the attention off the fact this country is now a communist state, much the same as North Korea.

Well...  this sort of drivel has to rate as one of the most absurd
things I've seen in this thread...  so far, that is.

Mate, if you seriously believe this and you're not just stirring the
pot, then I can only suggest you stop taking the meds you must
be on, or start taking some meds you're not on LOL.

     

Bobby. wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 1:49pm:

https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/122/190/355/original/05a242f77a9d690a.jpg

That picture is smacking hilarious.

AusGeoff wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 8:25pm:

Australia's been past the tipping point for ages and still most of you haven't begun to wake up, let alone pull on your boots...

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 7:58pm:

So welfare dependency is the problem in NZ as well.

so now you have your common denominator..... now go back and read my reasons for this up there as you asked and then ignored.... clear as crystal ..

The suggestion that your questions were hard was sarcastic, given then I answered in full...  do you live in a glass bottle or something?  You have your answers as I gave them - now move on - add in your common denominator... what makes you imagine Maori and PIs aren't the same?  It's all part of a huge conspiracy to keep them all down and it works? (sarcasm again)...

One of my kids' cousins in NZ is married to a Maori - he has a degree and a job... hard as that last is to get in Nu Zulland in reality - so seriously - WTF are you talking about?  Lack of incentive to raise self by own bootstraps?  Whose fault is that? Do you really imagine that any cash flood will make any difference given that it only encourages the recipients to not co-operate?

Jeez - even that NT chief minister sheila said the communities had to co-operate in fixing their own problems... though she won't enforce that but will instead kow-tow to the 'shareholder advisors' and just hand the money out for them to throw around that would be a first ... you can't lift a dead weight by putting dollars under it.

Even that NT 'chief minister' said the communities would have to co-operate in fixing their own problems... that'd be a first!  What will happen in reality is that the 'stakeholder advisors' will talk up how they want to spend the money, then they'll employ their family, buy beaut cars and such, and use it for their own homes etc.  The money will be gone with no result and the problems will just continue as usual - and the 'chief minister' for all her bluster, will do NOTHING but ask for more and more!

Christ, you and a heap of others need to get out more - get up there and take a good look.

AusGeoff wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 8:24pm:

Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 12:43pm: ...Anything to take the attention off the fact this country is now a communist state, much the same as North Korea. Well...  this sort of drivel has to rate as one of the most absurd things I've seen in this thread...  so far, that is. Mate, if you seriously believe this and you're not just stirring the pot, then I can only suggest you stop taking the meds you must be on, or start taking some meds you're not on LOL.

Like I give 2 shytes what you think of me champ.
You're nothing more than an MSM parrot.
It's people like you that don't have the balls to stand up for freedom.
More the dictator role you play.  ;)

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 8:29pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 1:49pm: https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/122/190/355/original/05a242f77a9d690a.jpg That picture is smacking hilarious.

It's good.


https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/122/190/355/original/05a242f77a9d690a.jpg

Booby, p1:

“ doth anyone denieth ”

Jesus! Talk normal dude!

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 11:45pm:

AusGeoff wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 8:25pm: Australia's been past the tipping point for ages and still most of you haven't begun to wake up, let alone pull on your boots...

It's precisely this kind of mind-set that has the authorities very alarmed indeed.

It's just gob-smacking to see you all on here refuting the rise in the threat of right wing extremism when you all spend your waking hours on here thumping your chests about how reprisal is "inevitable".

Then when it shows it's ugly head, you're all like ... nothing to see here. Dog whistling (damn that bit was funny).

Behold! Your army!

mothra wrote on Jan 25^th, 2023 at 5:56am:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 11:45pm: AusGeoff wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 8:25pm: Australia's been past the tipping point for ages and still most of you haven't begun to wake up, let alone pull on your boots... It's precisely this kind of mind-set that has the authorities very alarmed indeed. It's just gob-smacking to see you all on here refuting the rise in the threat of right wing extremism when you all spend your waking hours on here thumping your chests about how reprisal is "inevitable". Then when it shows it's ugly head, you're all like ... nothing to see here. Dog whistling (damn that bit was funny). Behold! Your army!

Who refutes it?  You admitted that we discuss the Inevitability™ of retaliation to endless violence etc... so in your eyes a very few people possibly rising against the tide of violence and crime when the authorities will not, becomes some nightmarish 'right wing extremism'?

It's not 'refuting' by the way - it's rejecting the idea as ludicrous, as any real and hardline movement... to refute one must first have a set of facts and counter those with a set of facts.

Be wary of your false use of words (again) multi-troll... you are such a dead giveaway.

SHOW me this mega-group of 'right wing extremists' and offer us a comparison with the current hordes of criminals roaming streets and carrying on their war against society at will... SHOW us...

As usual you've got the shoe on the wrong foot... and are so blind you can't begin to see it.  You are the kind who will jump up and down and screech at some homeowner defending home and family as a 'racist' and a Nazi... clearly you are insane.

mothra speaks for the 'authorities' now....

https://i.gifer.com/5eKq.gif

See?  mothra's run off.... opposition terrifies that kind of shallow mind... facts are killers...

BTW - I said Australia was past the tipping point long ago - in MANY ways - not just this endless business of the Abos shitting all over the hand that feeds them endlessly.... mothra's kind of 'educated simpleton' are on the list as well... and must needs be removed from academia if they are there....

'educated'......  https://media0.giphy.com/media/rrec0NTTVpZSZ47HVI/200w.gif

Wonder if all those fabulous do-gooders consider that an Aboriginal defending home and hearth is a 'right wing extremist', or a group of them taking up the cudgel against another hostile group are 'right wing extremists', or the Mussos who try to isolate entire suburbs into ghettoes for all round defence of the 'village' are 'right wing extremists' ..... same thing in action eh?

So if a white guy or a white group takes up the Cause of self-defence they are somehow 'right wing extremists' in the Tarrant mold - but all others who do the same things are not?

Clearly there is a new form of madness abroad in this country already filled with various madnesses... and that's not even including JaSin and his erotic fantasies about Black men and White women.  Any white woman that stupid deserves what she gets.

What a hoot!

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 11:58pm:

so now you have your common denominator..... now go back and read my reasons for this up there as you asked and then ignored.... clear as crystal ..

You "reasons" are all wrong; you need a functional family living in clean safe housing,  before you can learn a trade.  That is as clear as crystal, but not to you apparently.



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One of my kids' cousins in NZ is married to a Maori - he has a degree and a job... hard as that last is to get in Nu Zulland in reality - so seriously - WTF are you talking about?  Lack of incentive to raise self by own bootstraps?  Whose fault is that? Do you really imagine that any cash flood will make any difference given that it only encourages the recipients to not co-operate?

Fallacy of composition: because someone  you know managed to get a job doesn't mean everyone CAN get a job.


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Jeez - even that NT chief minister sheila said the communities had to co-operate in fixing their own problems... though she won't enforce that but will instead kow-tow to the 'shareholder advisors' and just hand the money out for them to throw around that would be a first ... you can't lift a dead weight by putting dollars under it.

You can't fix your own problems in the current vicious neoliberal market which forces those who can't compete onto welfare dependency. 


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Even that NT 'chief minister' said the communities would have to co-operate in fixing their own problems... that'd be a first!  What will happen in reality is that the 'stakeholder advisors' will talk up how they want to spend the money, then they'll employ their family, buy beaut cars and such, and use it for their own homes etc.  The money will be gone with no result and the problems will just continue as usual - and the 'chief minister' for all her bluster, will do NOTHING but ask for more and more!

As noted before, the chief minister is complicit in the welfare dependency resulting from the vicious neoliberal market orthodoxy which leaves those who can't find work to rot in welfare dependency.


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Christ, you and a heap of others need to get out more - get up there and take a good look.

while you need to begin to correctly analyse the problem at hand.   

>

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 25^th, 2023 at 11:00am:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 11:58pm: so now you have your common denominator..... now go back and read my reasons for this up there as you asked and then ignored.... clear as crystal .. You "reasons" are all wrong; you need a functional family living in clean safe housing,  before you can learn a trade.  That is as clear as crystal, but not to you apparently.

Who has wrecked those houses given to them in goid condition, who is not keeping those houses clean? Who is drinking instead of making breakfast for the kids and taking them to school?  Who is sexually abusing those kids, beating their mothers and siblings? Who is letting the kids roam the street at night? Who?

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 25^th, 2023 at 11:00am:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 11:58pm: so now you have your common denominator..... now go back and read my reasons for this up there as you asked and then ignored.... clear as crystal .. You "reasons" are all wrong; you need a functional family living in clean safe housing,  before you can learn a trade.  That is as clear as crystal, but not to you apparently. So there you go - you confess they don't live in safe clean housing - exactly as I said.  Jeez you're slow.... on purpose it seems to me.  Are you.... you know... taking over from Lefty the Deluded in trying to irritate people here as your only way of getting at them? Quote: One of my kids' cousins in NZ is married to a Maori - he has a degree and a job... hard as that last is to get in Nu Zulland in reality - so seriously - WTF are you talking about?  Lack of incentive to raise self by own bootstraps?  Whose fault is that? Do you really imagine that any cash flood will make any difference given that it only encourages the recipients to not co-operate? Fallacy of composition: because someone  you know managed to get a job doesn't mean everyone CAN get a job. Totally wrong - anyone can get a job - everyone might not.  You need to review your academic standards, stop pretending you actually know what you are talking about. [quote]Jeez - even that NT chief minister sheila said the communities had to co-operate in fixing their own problems... though she won't enforce that but will instead kow-tow to the 'shareholder advisors' and just hand the money out for them to throw around that would be a first ... you can't lift a dead weight by putting dollars under it.

You can't fix your own problems in the current vicious neoliberal market which forces those who can't compete onto welfare dependency.  Same old, same old - everyone's fault but theirs and it's a conspiracy to keep them down... no personal responsibility or effort required.  You need some new material - that ain't working..


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Even that NT 'chief minister' said the communities would have to co-operate in fixing their own problems... that'd be a first!  What will happen in reality is that the 'stakeholder advisors' will talk up how they want to spend the money, then they'll employ their family, buy beaut cars and such, and use it for their own homes etc.  The money will be gone with no result and the problems will just continue as usual - and the 'chief minister' for all her bluster, will do NOTHING but ask for more and more!  Afraid to comment there?  It's not a trap, you know, this requirement for some mutual Key Performance Indicators as a prerequisite for cash handed out like chaff in a high wind.  All that is required is that for each tranche of cash, there must be indications of genuine progress in substance abuse, crime, violence, neglect, cleanliness, forward planning to future viable communities, and so forth... No progress - no next tranche... Albo said that with regard to the 'voice' remember, then quietly dropped it from his vernacular... well - of course he did.... he just wants it open-ended and all from us to them, right?  Only under feminism in New Labor could such a man exist, let alone prosper.

As noted before, the chief minister is complicit in the welfare dependency resulting from the vicious neoliberal market orthodoxy which leaves those who can't find work to rot in welfare dependency. (**snores**)


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Christ, you and a heap of others need to get out more - get up there and take a good look.

while you need to begin to correctly analyse the problem at hand.   I have analysed it correctly -you are sadly lacking n that department.  You will never raise the Cheers out of their chosen lifestyle your way... simple ... they must take an active part in their own salvation.
[/quote]

You're a Labor sheila, aren't you - paid to push this guff?

Frank wrote on Jan 25^th, 2023 at 12:14pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 25th, 2023 at 11:00am: Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 11:58pm: so now you have your common denominator..... now go back and read my reasons for this up there as you asked and then ignored.... clear as crystal .. You "reasons" are all wrong; you need a functional family living in clean safe housing,  before you can learn a trade.  That is as clear as crystal, but not to you apparently. Who has wrecked those houses given to them in goid condition, who is not keeping those houses clean? Who is drinking instead of making breakfast for the kids and taking them to school?  Who is sexually abusing those kids, beating their mothers and siblings? Who is letting the kids roam the street at night? Who?

It's not just the blokes who physically abuse the kids... 'mothers' kill more of them than 'fathers'..... and 'mothers' are equally complicit in kids roaming the streets hungry etc.

My uncle - a well-known copper known as The Black Fullah (his children are olive skinned like me and his wife was part Abo) - used to head down the pub in his town and send all the sheilas home to their kids... literally in those words - come on - finish that drink and out of here and get home to your kids and feed them!  That was a long time ago now.... and wouldn't be allowed any more - official abuse...   ::)  ::)  ::)

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 25^th, 2023 at 12:25pm:

So there you go - you confess they don't live in safe clean housing - exactly as I said.  Jeez you're slow.... on purpose it seems to me.  Are you.... you know... taking over from Lefty the Deluded in trying to irritate people here as your only way of getting at them?

 

An intriguing response, let's see if we can sort it out.

They don't  live in clean safe housing because people consigned by the system** to living on the dole don't have the resources to build clean safe housing.

** I already explained how you are falling into the fallacy of composition re "choice" to live on the dole; people don't "choose" to do so, long-term unemployment is systemic, not amenable by individuals.

So let's see your response:   


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Totally wrong - anyone can get a job - everyone might not.  You need to review your academic standards, stop pretending you actually know what you are talking about.

...so according to you ..."anyone CAN get a job" equates to "ALL can get a job"; and if someone cannot (or does not) it must be his own fault. 

Fallacy of composition, still. 


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Same old, same old - everyone's fault but theirs and it's a conspiracy to keep them down... no personal responsibility or effort required.  You need some new material - that ain't working..

As noted above, everyone can (is free to)  get a job, but that doesn't mean all will get a job even if everyone desires to get a job, because unemployment is built into the current NAIRU job market.   


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Afraid to comment there?

No, as you well know... 


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It's not a trap, you know, this requirement for some mutual Key Performance Indicators as a prerequisite for cash handed out like chaff in a high wind.

The trap is welfare dependency itself which is imposed by the system, not sought by individuals.


Quote:

All that is required is that for each tranche of cash, there must be indications of genuine progress in substance abuse, crime, violence, neglect, cleanliness, forward planning to future viable communities, and so forth...

Study the history of the CDEP before it was cancelled by neoliberal free market ideologues. More employment reduced alcoholism and crime.

Welfare dependency increases alcoholism and crime.


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No progress - no next tranche...

a job is required , not the next tranche of 'sit-down' money - the ultimate failure of an economic system to employ everyone. 


Quote:

Albo said that with regard to the 'voice' remember, then quietly dropped it from his vernacular... well - of course he did.... he just wants it open-ended and all from us to them, right?  Only under feminism in New Labor could such a man exist, let alone prosper.

Albo is as complicit is the current dysfunctional job market as you are; the difference between you and him is he has a heart. 


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(**snores**)

You are sleeping through the most important lesson of all; even prof Ross Garnaut, hardly a radical Marxist, says the central bank can finance the (central) government up to full employment. 


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I have analysed it correctly -you are sadly lacking n that department.  You will never raise the Cheers out of their chosen lifestyle your way... simple ... they must take an active part in their own salvation.

(I'm afraid it's time for my usual drill); examined and refuted, above.... 

To repeat: blacks in the aggregate do not choose their lifestyle, even if individuals can manage to do so, because there exists a systemic barrier in the form of entrenched  long-term unemployment, and a commitment to culture however misplaced. 


Quote:

You're a Labor sheila, aren't you - paid to push this guff?

Wrong again....

Stick to what you (sadly) regard as facts.....

>

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 25^th, 2023 at 1:24pm:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 25th, 2023 at 12:25pm: So there you go - you confess they don't live in safe clean housing - exactly as I said.  Jeez you're slow.... on purpose it seems to me.  Are you.... you know... taking over from Lefty the Deluded in trying to irritate people here as your only way of getting at them?   An intriguing response, let's see if we can sort it out. They don't  live in clean safe housing because people consigned by the system** to living on the dole don't have the resources to build clean safe housing. ** I already explained how you are falling into the fallacy of composition re "choice" to live on the dole; people don't "choose" to do so, long-term unemployment is systemic, not amenable by individuals. So let's see your response:    Quote: Totally wrong - anyone can get a job - everyone might not.  You need to review your academic standards, stop pretending you actually know what you are talking about. ...so according to you ..."anyone CAN get a job" equates to "ALL can get a job"; and if someone cannot (or does not) it must be his own fault.  Fallacy of composition, still.  [quote]Same old, same old - everyone's fault but theirs and it's a conspiracy to keep them down... no personal responsibility or effort required.  You need some new material - that ain't working..

As noted above, everyone can (is free to)  get a job, but that doesn't mean all will get a job even if everyone desires to get a job, because unemployment is built into the current NAIRU job market.   


Quote:

Afraid to comment there?

No, as you well know... 


Quote:

It's not a trap, you know, this requirement for some mutual Key Performance Indicators as a prerequisite for cash handed out like chaff in a high wind.

The trap is welfare dependency itself which is imposed by the system, not sought by individuals.


Quote:

All that is required is that for each tranche of cash, there must be indications of genuine progress in substance abuse, crime, violence, neglect, cleanliness, forward planning to future viable communities, and so forth...

Study the history of the CDEP before it was cancelled by neoliberal free market ideologues. More employment reduced alcoholism and crime.

Welfare dependency increases alcoholism and crime.


Quote:

No progress - no next tranche...

a job is required , not the next tranche of 'sit-down' money - the ultimate failure of an economic system to employ everyone. 


Quote:

Albo said that with regard to the 'voice' remember, then quietly dropped it from his vernacular... well - of course he did.... he just wants it open-ended and all from us to them, right?  Only under feminism in New Labor could such a man exist, let alone prosper.

Albo is as complicit is the current dysfunctional job market as you are; the difference between you and him is he has a heart. 


Quote:

(**snores**)[/quote You are sleeping through the most important lesson of all; even prof Ross Garnaut, hardly a radical Marxist, says the central bank can finance the (central) government up to full employment.  I have analysed it correctly -you are sadly lacking n that department.  You will never raise the Cheers out of their chosen lifestyle your way... simple ... they must take an active part in their own salvation.

(I'm afraid it's time for my usual drill); examined and refuted, above.... 

To repeat: blacks in the aggregate do not choose their lifestyle, even if individuals can manage to do so, because there exists a systemic barrier in the form of entrenched  long-term unemployment.


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You're a Labor sheila, aren't you - paid to push this guff?

Wrong again....

Stick to what you (sadly) regard as facts.....[/quote]


Read up - safe clean housing is provided for them.... blacks in the aggregate DO choose their own lifestyle... there are avenues open to them everywhere, more than to poor white boys...

https://studentedgecontent.blob.core.windows.net/images/articles/2016/05/castle.jpg

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 25^th, 2023 at 1:24pm:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 25th, 2023 at 12:25pm: So there you go - you confess they don't live in safe clean housing - exactly as I said.  Jeez you're slow.... on purpose it seems to me.  Are you.... you know... taking over from Lefty the Deluded in trying to irritate people here as your only way of getting at them?   An intriguing response, let's see if we can sort it out. They don't  live in clean safe housing because people consigned by the system** to living on the dole don't have the resources to build clean safe housing. They are provided housing - what they do with it is their own concern. ** I already explained how you are falling into the fallacy of composition re "choice" to live on the dole; people don't "choose" to do so, long-term unemployment is systemic, not amenable by individuals. So choosing to remain in a low employment area is not a choice, as in not pursuing higher education or even lower education So let's see your response:    Quote: Totally wrong - anyone can get a job - everyone might not.  You need to review your academic standards, stop pretending you actually know what you are talking about. ...so according to you ..."anyone CAN get a job" equates to "ALL can get a job"; and if someone cannot (or does not) it must be his own fault.  Ridiculous interpretation... learn the small difference between any and every. Fallacy of composition, still.  Nonsense that repeating will not change... learn English. [quote]Same old, same old - everyone's fault but theirs and it's a conspiracy to keep them down... no personal responsibility or effort required.  You need some new material - that ain't working..

As noted above, everyone can (is free to)  get a job, but that doesn't mean all will get a job even if everyone desires to get a job, because unemployment is built into the current NAIRU job market.   So now you agree with what I said above!  Truly astounding - give that person two jelly beans!  Like drawing teeth, this is.


Quote:

Afraid to comment there?

No, as you well know... 


Quote:

It's not a trap, you know, this requirement for some mutual Key Performance Indicators as a prerequisite for cash handed out like chaff in a high wind.

The trap is welfare dependency itself which is imposed by the system, not sought by individuals.


Quote:

All that is required is that for each tranche of cash, there must be indications of genuine progress in substance abuse, crime, violence, neglect, cleanliness, forward planning to future viable communities, and so forth...

Study the history of the CDEP before it was cancelled by neoliberal free market ideologues. More employment reduced alcoholism and crime. It wasn't producing the results as shown by its utter lack of impetus once the cash was withdrawn - nobody learned a thing to put to lasting use... just money for appearing.

Welfare dependency increases alcoholism and crime. Alcohol dependency increases alcoholism and crime - crime dependency increases crime.  Most people on social security do not engage in crime.


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No progress - no next tranche...

a job is required , not the next tranche of 'sit-down' money - the ultimate failure of an economic system to employ everyone.  Now you are starting to make sense.  HOWEVER - there must be social improvements for this kind of money - that's what it is for -not just make jobs handed around so the situation of buying booze etc becomes easier financially... last thing they need.  It's not money for nothing - they have to work on their social problems to get it to work on those problems.


Quote:

Albo said that with regard to the 'voice' remember, then quietly dropped it from his vernacular... well - of course he did.... he just wants it open-ended and all from us to them, right?  Only under feminism in New Labor could such a man exist, let alone prosper.

Albo is as complicit is the current dysfunctional job market as you are; the difference between you and him is he has a heart.  (**snores**)  What utter nonsense.


Quote:

(**snores**)[/quote You are sleeping through the most important lesson of all; even prof Ross Garnaut, hardly a radical Marxist, says the central bank can finance the (central) government up to full employment.  I have analysed it correctly -you are sadly lacking n that department.  You will never raise the Cheers out of their chosen lifestyle your way... simple ... they must take an active part in their own salvation.

(I'm afraid it's time for my usual drill); examined and refuted, above....  Not at all - you've refuted by the correct standards - nothing... merely posted a differing view.

To repeat: blacks in the aggregate do not choose their lifestyle, even if individuals can manage to do so, because there exists a systemic barrier in the form of entrenched  long-term unemployment. So go where the jobs are... and remember that this is not a situation they are alone in


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You're trained by a Labor sheila, aren't you - paid to push this guff?

[/qu

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 25^th, 2023 at 1:27pm:

Read up - safe clean housing is provided for them....

Not in sufficient quantities, and with no provision for maintenance; in any case moot in dysfunctional welfare dependent communities where alcoholism becomes the chief pastime; indeed the authorities are only too aware if they take away the grog they'll have a real riot on their hands - even now people are smashing into homes at night, demanding grog.


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blacks in the aggregate DO choose their own lifestyle... there are avenues open to them everywhere, more than to poor white boys...

You refuse to look at the consequences of  attachment to culture AND the white man's enforced welfare dependency. I have yet to receive your concession that not all who want a job can get a job,  even if some can get a job. 

>

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 25^th, 2023 at 1:36pm:

They are provided housing - what they do with it is their own concern.

Not in sufficient quantities,  over crowding is rife; and the dysfunction of alcoholism as a way of life under systemically imposed welfare dependency, quickly results in badly maintained/destroyed homes. 


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So choosing to remain in a low employment area is not a choice, as in not pursuing higher education or even lower education

Correct.  Children too  afraid to go home at night  are not in a position to pursue education.


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Ridiculous interpretation... learn the small difference between any and every.

You claim anyone can get a job, even though not everyone who wants a job does get a job - which is just fact: over a million long-term unemployed in Oz proves it.

That's the difference.


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Nonsense that repeating will not change... learn English.

Your RW fallacy of composition continues...low IQ?



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So now you agree with what I said above!  Truly astounding - give that person two jelly beans!  Like drawing teeth, this is.

refuted above: the fact of involuntary unemployment proves you are wrong.


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It wasn't producing the results as shown by its utter lack of impetus once the cash was withdrawn - nobody learned a thing to put to lasting use... just money for appearing.

It created employment, and reduced welfare dependency, alcoholism  and crime.


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Alcohol dependency increases alcoholism and crime - crime dependency increases crime.  Most people on social security do not engage in crime.

"most people" (ie whites on  the dole) are not suffering the effects of living with their smashed culture, with alcohol the destructive drug of choice to achieve oblivion from the pain of the smashed culture. 


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Now you are starting to make sense.  HOWEVER - there must be social improvements for this kind of money - that's what it is for - not just make jobs

It's only by ensuring employment that social improvement can occur, because we have seen how destructive welfare dependency is in the context of a demoralized culture.   It's interesting the number of references to "pride" in culture we hear these days, in an attempt to counter the present terrible reality.



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handed around so the situation of buying booze etc becomes easier financially... last thing they need.

Employed people have less time and reason to abuse alcohol


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It's not money for nothing - they have to work on their social problems to get it to work on those problems.

A job works magic....


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Not at all - you've refuted by the correct standards - nothing... merely posted a differing view.

yes, Garnaut is advocating for full employment, you are advocating the current NAIRU economy with involuntary unemployment.

I assume the real reason for your stance is taxation: "who will pay for (full employment)". 


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So go where the jobs are... and remember that this is not a situation they are alone

Fallacy of composition: involuntary unemployment exists everywhere in the current dysfunctional system, not everyone will get a job, even if they move.   

>

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 7:58pm:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 7:36pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 7:06pm: Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 6:58pm: http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/rofling.gif Thanks for your picture, but it doesn't shine light on the causes of the problems in Alice Springs, or why Adern's ratings plummeted in NZ.  Try understanding the issues for blacks who are attempting "to live in two worlds"  (as per the Uluru statement) , to preserve their culture, while they have been relegated to living on the dole, which is our culture's way of dealing with those who can't compete in neoliberal markets.  Let's see now - what are the causes of the problems in Alice Springs..... that's a hard one...... let's see now..... I'll try to keep it short......... too much drinking.... too much steeping in a culture of violence .... poor parenting and parental control .... disastrous family life that ends up with 42.2% of the 45,000 children in care being (gasps) Aboriginal ...... tribal differences (same here between our local lot and 'up the road' one town or further up where there are three tribal lots and they feud constantly) ... the carefully concealed program of developing the brushfire war of terrorism against Whitey in the rather stupid hope of that forcing a positive vote for a 'voice' through fear of consequences of a NO vote..... same again with the rather stupid hope of (gasp) driving Whitey out of the Terr-Uh'Tree, something clearly aided and abetted by the 'government' up there with its 90 degree list to black end tekin' beck their lend, mete, and also by Federal Labor!!  One thing you are seeing in the terr-uh-tree is what happens when the majority Blacks vote majority for those who support their way of doing things..... also what happens when you permit a stupid law system to put a cop on trial for killing in self-defence just because the perpetrator was of a certajn colour/social group/ethnicity and let them get away with demands for 'payback' meaning threats of death to that officer....... and all the whoop-whoopers in favour say that the voice etc is not special rights and privileges, not to mention even more free money, to a certain group along the same lines.  They say on the one hand there can be no division along lines of race etc, then set about creating exactly that. Now the Ardern... well... you see..... the smarmy army idea of a co-operative government with the Maori and the Pakeha and offering the Maori a heap of good stuff like houses etc.... just hasn't worked out with reduced crime rates and such... and so the Pakeha and the Maori are waking up to this paper-thin ideologically driven sheila style social science founded program..... giving Jake The Mus a better house won't stop the problems..... and you see the exact same utter stupidity being played out here in Australia as we speak....  ;) Phew - you really come up with the hard questions, don't you? https://media.tenor.com/ZiVl8Cttpd0AAAAC/laughing-baby.gif Whether they are hard or not, you certainly don't have the answers to eradicating welfare dependency and the associated crime. And as for poverty reduction and provision of social housing in NZ: https://www.smh.com.au/national/the-big-promises-jacinda-didn-t-keep-20230122-p5cej5.html NationalHousing affordability OPINION The big promises Jacinda didn’t keep Roshena Campbell "Her other policy offerings to New Zealanders were not extensive but the most important was a promise to tackle New Zealand’s housing crisis because as she said as opposition leader, “Too many families are missing out on buying homes”. Of course the MSM are great at criticizing politicians of all stripes, but have no clue WHY she couldn't improve home ownership rates or provision of social housing. 9quick google) " In New Zealand, the association between poverty and benefit receipt is strong, and Māori and Pacific People are disproportionately adversely affected..." So welfare dependency is the problem in NZ as well.

No.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 25^th, 2023 at 2:52pm:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 25th, 2023 at 1:36pm: They are provided housing - what they do with it is their own concern. Not in sufficient quantities,  over crowding is rife; and the dysfunction of alcoholism as a way of life under systemically imposed welfare dependency, quickly results in badly maintained/destroyed homes.  Quote: So choosing to remain in a low employment area is not a choice, as in not pursuing higher education or even lower education Correct.  Children too  afraid to go home at night  are not in a position to pursue education. [quote]  Ridiculous interpretation... learn the small difference between any and every.

You claim anyone can get a job, even though not everyone who wants a job does get a job - which is just fact: over a million long-term unemployed in Oz proves it.

That's the difference.


Quote:

Nonsense that repeating will not change... learn English.

Your RW fallacy of composition continues...low IQ?



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So now you agree with what I said above!  Truly astounding - give that person two jelly beans!  Like drawing teeth, this is.

refuted above: the fact of involuntary unemployment proves you are wrong.


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It wasn't producing the results as shown by its utter lack of impetus once the cash was withdrawn - nobody learned a thing to put to lasting use... just money for appearing.

It created employment, and reduced welfare dependency, alcoholism  and crime.


Quote:

Alcohol dependency increases alcoholism and crime - crime dependency increases crime.  Most people on social security do not engage in crime.

"most people" (ie whites on  the dole) are not suffering the effects of living with their smashed culture, with alcohol the destructive drug of choice to achieve oblivion from the pain of the smashed culture. 


Quote:

Now you are starting to make sense.  HOWEVER - there must be social improvements for this kind of money - that's what it is for - not just make jobs

It's only by ensuring employment that social improvement can occur, because we have seen how destructive welfare dependency is in the context of a demoralized culture.   It's interesting the number of references to "pride" in culture we hear these days, in an attempt to counter the present terrible reality.



Quote:

handed around so the situation of buying booze etc becomes easier financially... last thing they need.

Employed people have less time and reason to abuse alcohol


Quote:

It's not money for nothing - they have to work on their social problems to get it to work on those problems.

A job works magic....


Quote:

Not at all - you've refuted by the correct standards - nothing... merely posted a differing view.

yes, Garnaut is advocating for full employment, you are advocating the current NAIRU economy with involuntary unemployment.

I assume the real reason for your stance is taxation: "who will pay for (full employment)". 


Quote:

So go where the jobs are... and remember that this is not a situation they are alone

Fallacy of composition: involuntary unemployment exists everywhere in the current dysfunctional system, not everyone will get a job, even if they move.   

[/quote]
Not to mention the fact that the dole is not enough to be able to afford to
move to where there are more jobs - and where rentals will be harder to get
and more expensive.

Kat wrote on Jan 25^th, 2023 at 4:12pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 7:58pm: Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 7:36pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 7:06pm: Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 24th, 2023 at 6:58pm: http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/rofling.gif Thanks for your picture, but it doesn't shine light on the causes of the problems in Alice Springs, or why Adern's ratings plummeted in NZ.  Try understanding the issues for blacks who are attempting "to live in two worlds"  (as per the Uluru statement) , to preserve their culture, while they have been relegated to living on the dole, which is our culture's way of dealing with those who can't compete in neoliberal markets.  Let's see now - what are the causes of the problems in Alice Springs..... that's a hard one...... let's see now..... I'll try to keep it short......... too much drinking.... too much steeping in a culture of violence .... poor parenting and parental control .... disastrous family life that ends up with 42.2% of the 45,000 children in care being (gasps) Aboriginal ...... tribal differences (same here between our local lot and 'up the road' one town or further up where there are three tribal lots and they feud constantly) ... the carefully concealed program of developing the brushfire war of terrorism against Whitey in the rather stupid hope of that forcing a positive vote for a 'voice' through fear of consequences of a NO vote..... same again with the rather stupid hope of (gasp) driving Whitey out of the Terr-Uh'Tree, something clearly aided and abetted by the 'government' up there with its 90 degree list to black end tekin' beck their lend, mete, and also by Federal Labor!!  One thing you are seeing in the terr-uh-tree is what happens when the majority Blacks vote majority for those who support their way of doing things..... also what happens when you permit a stupid law system to put a cop on trial for killing in self-defence just because the perpetrator was of a certajn colour/social group/ethnicity and let them get away with demands for 'payback' meaning threats of death to that officer....... and all the whoop-whoopers in favour say that the voice etc is not special rights and privileges, not to mention even more free money, to a certain group along the same lines.  They say on the one hand there can be no division along lines of race etc, then set about creating exactly that. Now the Ardern... well... you see..... the smarmy army idea of a co-operative government with the Maori and the Pakeha and offering the Maori a heap of good stuff like houses etc.... just hasn't worked out with reduced crime rates and such... and so the Pakeha and the Maori are waking up to this paper-thin ideologically driven sheila style social science founded program..... giving Jake The Mus a better house won't stop the problems..... and you see the exact same utter stupidity being played out here in Australia as we speak....  ;) Phew - you really come up with the hard questions, don't you? https://media.tenor.com/ZiVl8Cttpd0AAAAC/laughing-baby.gif Whether they are hard or not, you certainly don't have the answers to eradicating welfare dependency and the associated crime. And as for poverty reduction and provision of social housing in NZ: https://www.smh.com.au/national/the-big-promises-jacinda-didn-t-keep-20230122-p5cej5.html NationalHousing affordability OPINION The big promises Jacinda didn’t keep Roshena Campbell "Her other policy offerings to New Zealanders were not extensive but the most important was a promise to tackle New Zealand’s housing crisis because as she said as opposition leader, “Too many families are missing out on buying homes”. Of course the MSM are great at criticizing politicians of all stripes, but have no clue WHY she couldn't improve home ownership rates or provision of social housing. 9quick google) " In New Zealand, the association between poverty and benefit receipt is strong, and Māori and Pacific People are disproportionately adversely affected..." So welfare dependency is the problem in NZ as well. No.

Well, what IS?

Do tell.

Kat wrote on Jan 25^th, 2023 at 4:29pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 25th, 2023 at 2:52pm: Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 25th, 2023 at 1:36pm: They are provided housing - what they do with it is their own concern. Not in sufficient quantities,  over crowding is rife; and the dysfunction of alcoholism as a way of life under systemically imposed welfare dependency, quickly results in badly maintained/destroyed homes.  Quote: So choosing to remain in a low employment area is not a choice, as in not pursuing higher education or even lower education Correct.  Children too  afraid to go home at night  are not in a position to pursue education. [quote]  Ridiculous interpretation... learn the small difference between any and every. You claim anyone can get a job, even though not everyone who wants a job does get a job - which is just fact: over a million long-term unemployed in Oz proves it. That's the difference. [quote]Nonsense that repeating will not change... learn English.

Your RW fallacy of composition continues...low IQ?



Quote:

So now you agree with what I said above!  Truly astounding - give that person two jelly beans!  Like drawing teeth, this is.

refuted above: the fact of involuntary unemployment proves you are wrong.


Quote:

It wasn't producing the results as shown by its utter lack of impetus once the cash was withdrawn - nobody learned a thing to put to lasting use... just money for appearing.

It created employment, and reduced welfare dependency, alcoholism  and crime.


Quote:

Alcohol dependency increases alcoholism and crime - crime dependency increases crime.  Most people on social security do not engage in crime.

"most people" (ie whites on  the dole) are not suffering the effects of living with their smashed culture, with alcohol the destructive drug of choice to achieve oblivion from the pain of the smashed culture. 


Quote:

Now you are starting to make sense.  HOWEVER - there must be social improvements for this kind of money - that's what it is for - not just make jobs

It's only by ensuring employment that social improvement can occur, because we have seen how destructive welfare dependency is in the context of a demoralized culture.   It's interesting the number of references to "pride" in culture we hear these days, in an attempt to counter the present terrible reality.



Quote:

handed around so the situation of buying booze etc becomes easier financially... last thing they need.

Employed people have less time and reason to abuse alcohol


Quote:

It's not money for nothing - they have to work on their social problems to get it to work on those problems.

A job works magic....


Quote:

Not at all - you've refuted by the correct standards - nothing... merely posted a differing view.

yes, Garnaut is advocating for full employment, you are advocating the current NAIRU economy with involuntary unemployment.

I assume the real reason for your stance is taxation: "who will pay for (full employment)". 


Quote:

So go where the jobs are... and remember that this is not a situation they are alone

Fallacy of composition: involuntary unemployment exists everywhere in the current dysfunctional system, not everyone will get a job, even if they move.   

[/quote]
Not to mention the fact that the dole is not enough to be able to afford to
move to where there are more jobs - and where rentals will be harder to get
and more expensive.[/quote]


Yeah, it's only enough to get shitfaced every day by 10 am and neglect the kiddies when not abusing them and beat the wife to send a message to Canberra. Shure.  EVERYONE on the dole does that, no?

Kat wrote on Jan 25^th, 2023 at 4:29pm:

Not to mention the fact that the dole is not enough to be able to afford to move to where there are more jobs - and where rentals will be harder to get and more expensive.

Exactly.

But I notice you are ruling out welfare dependency as the root of the problem in the current crime wave in the Alice (and elsewhere in outback Oz, and Maoris in NZ for that matter).

Even if you increase the dole, you won't close the (black) gap; because unstructured lives turn to alcohol for relief, especially among blacks not familiar, or without access to the internet.

Not to mention huge numbers of (white) people won't want to work, if the dole can support a comfortable, independent lifestyle. 

The time when robots will do most of the s**t boring work is still some time off yet....so until then we will all need to work - and receive wages capable of supporting  independent healthy lifestyles. 

>

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 26^th, 2023 at 12:10pm:

Kat wrote on Jan 25th, 2023 at 4:29pm: Not to mention the fact that the dole is not enough to be able to afford to move to where there are more jobs - and where rentals will be harder to get and more expensive. Exactly. But I notice you are ruling out welfare dependency as the root of the problem in the current crime wave in the Alice (and elsewhere in outback Oz, and Maoris in NZ for that matter). Even if you increase the dole, you won't close the (black) gap; because unstructured lives turn to alcohol for relief, especially among blacks not familiar, or without access to the internet. Not to mention huge numbers of (white) people won't want to work, if the dole can support a comfortable, independent lifestyle.  The time when robots will do most of the s**t boring work is still some time off yet....so until then we will all need to work - and receive wages capable of supporting  independent healthy lifestyles.

I do rule it out, because it's NOT the root cause.

As to your other point, it's patently false, as was shown with the coronavirus supplement.

Many used that money to get training which would IMPROVE their chances of getting work.

Many used it to get off the streets which would improve their chances of getting work.

Many actually GOT work.

Well - Australia in many ways has been beyond the tipping point for a long time now.... and now is the time for all good people to come to the aid of their country.

Kat wrote on Jan 27^th, 2023 at 2:44pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 26th, 2023 at 12:10pm: Kat wrote on Jan 25th, 2023 at 4:29pm: Not to mention the fact that the dole is not enough to be able to afford to move to where there are more jobs - and where rentals will be harder to get and more expensive. Exactly. But I notice you are ruling out welfare dependency as the root of the problem in the current crime wave in the Alice (and elsewhere in outback Oz, and Maoris in NZ for that matter). Even if you increase the dole, you won't close the (black) gap; because unstructured lives turn to alcohol for relief, especially among blacks not familiar, or without access to the internet. Not to mention huge numbers of (white) people won't want to work, if the dole can support a comfortable, independent lifestyle.  The time when robots will do most of the s**t boring work is still some time off yet....so until then we will all need to work - and receive wages capable of supporting  independent healthy lifestyles.  I do rule it out, because it's NOT the root cause. As to your other point, it's patently false, as was shown with the coronavirus supplement. Many used that money to get training which would IMPROVE their chances of getting work. Many used it to get off the streets which would improve their chances of getting work. Many actually GOT work.

Bad examples; in April 2020 the federal government paid  all non-essential workers c.$500/week to stay home and isolate,  and also  doubled the dole to about the same amount so homeless people would be able to find accommodation - such was the fear of the virus at that time...pity covid turned out to be mostly a dud, except for old people, and the government was able to cease its support sooner than expected**.

So nothing about the advantages of a decent dole payment could be learnt at that time, because the entire economy was on life-support, maintained by the federal government.

And certainly the long-term unemployed did NOT get jobs when the economy opened up again, disproving your theory that a decent dole will result in lower rates of  long-term unemployment. 

The jobs are simply not there for that cohort of workers who are unable to provide the skills employers are looking for. 

** a half-decent virus would have forced us all (except essential workers in food and utilities)  to stay home and isolate for a year or more - after which time the Fed. government, having spent $trillions to maintain the economy and citizens in lock-down, would have been forced to admit the truth: currency issuing governments with a treasury and central bank, can create money out of thin air, without taxing or borrowing from the citizens.


Which is why a government can also create money until full employment is reached ie for a Job Guarantee. 
[After that, government will need to find other ways to fund policy eg  via taxation. 

   

>

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 27^th, 2023 at 3:45pm:

Well - Australia in many ways has been beyond the tipping point for a long time now.... and now is the time for all good people to come to the aid of their country.

The entire global economy is beyond a tipping point, with debt, inequality, and ecological crises looming.

>

The trouble with a job guarantee = a wage guarantee - is that where there are no jobs, it becomes a matter of appearance money.... merely another form of dole but at a much higher rate .... and does nothing to resolve the underlying social problems.... if anything, the extra money can actually make those worse.

Additionally, as you well know - every time there is more 'discretionary income' lying about, the 'market forces' will always take up the slack via price and COL rises.  It is no secret that whereas with a single income family you could buy - in the 1980's - a house in Marrickville (livin' next door to Albo)... and that the costs of actually buying a house skyrocketed the moment the MADIF (Mandatory Dual Income Family) for many became the reality - meaning that singles (including gays etc) were rapidly phased out of the market, and thus was created yet another pressure on income levels, demanding a rise sufficient for a single to even get into the market - and at the same time offering two in a couple two such rises..... which... surprise, surprise, created another skyrocketing of home prices.

Enter The Demons Of Investor Ownership.... and very lax and loose bank rules for investors - and the problems just went higher and higher for the ordinary person.

It was never going to work.... if you can't see the results today you are blind....

Point being - the moment there is a perception in the market place that those with the ready can afford to pay more - prices will rise to suit, so no benefit will ever come from simple pay/income rises.

THAT, my sons, is why I constantly advocate that costs of living including housing (and dumping privatisation) must first be brought under control - and THEN the attempt made to improve in real terms the REAL prosperity of the many, as opposed to the massive imbalances currently created by a few having all the prosperity and the many none.

You will never alleviate poverty by throwing more money at only the lowest end.... all you will do is raise the bar for what constitutes poverty, and thus draw more and more into it and thus generate an even bigger problem,.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 27^th, 2023 at 4:31pm:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 27th, 2023 at 3:45pm: Well - Australia in many ways has been beyond the tipping point for a long time now.... and now is the time for all good people to come to the aid of their country. The entire global economy is beyond a tipping point, with debt, inequality, and ecological crises looming.

yes - and Australia is being part of the sheep's back for this disaster to ride home on, and not thinking for itself and for its own best good and that of its people.

I bring you the Australians United Party..... one for all and all for one - not every man for himself.

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 27^th, 2023 at 5:01pm:

The trouble with a job guarantee = a wage guarantee is that where there are no jobs, it becomes a matter of appearance money....

Wrong of course.


Where there are no jobs in the regular job market, then  government - as employer of last resort - can pay people to do useful work which would otherwise not get done.

Useful work.   ie takes time and application to be performed. 


Quote:

Additionally, as you well know - every time there is more 'discretionary income' lying about, the 'market forces' will always take up the slack via price and COL rises.

Wrong again, there is always potential for extra  supply capacity in food and essential utilities if required, which will avoid 'demand pull' inflation.   


Quote:

It is no secret that whereas with a single income family you could buy - in the 1980's - a house in Marrickville (livin' next door to Albo)... and that the costs of actually buying a house skyrocketed the moment the MADIF (Mandatory Dual Income Family) for many became the reality - meaning that singles (including gays etc) were rapidly phased out of the market, and thus was created yet another pressure on income levels, demanding a rise sufficient for a single to even get into the market - and at the same time offering two in a couple two such rises..... which... surprise, surprise, created another skyrocketing of home prices.

Interesting that the current  economic model has us all working harder (both adults in a family)  to maintain a satisfactory standard of living, my old man on an average wage supported  a wife and 4 kids in fine style ( annual caravan holidays etc). 


Quote:

Enter The Demons Of Investor Ownership.... and very lax and loose bank rules for investors - and the problems just went higher and higher for the ordinary person. It was never going to work.... if you can't see the results today you are blind...

Yes, the current monetary orthodoxy relies on private debt, ie indebtedness to private financiers/usurers, and 'investment' in the housing Ponzi..


Quote:

Point being - the moment there is a perception in the market place that those with the ready can afford to pay more - prices will rise to suit, so no benefit will ever come from simple pay/income rises.

Productive capacity already mentioned re supply of essentials, which is what we are talking about for non-inflationary wages at the low end.


Quote:

THAT, my sons, is why I constantly advocate that costs of living including housing (and dumping privatisation) must first be brought under control - and THEN the attempt made to improve in real terms the REAL prosperity of the many, as opposed to the massive imbalances currently created by a few having all the prosperity and the many none.

You need to explain HOW these costs will be brought under control. 

I advocate control via  PUBLIC sector debt which can be rolled over indefinitely (provided the nation's productivity is maintained).


Quote:

You will never alleviate poverty by throwing more money at only the lowest end.... all you will do is raise the bar for what constitutes poverty, and thus draw more and more into it and thus generate an even bigger problem,.

You are conceptualising it in the wrong manner; you can ONLY alleviate poverty by ensuring everyone is doing useful work, with govt, acting as ELR.

Having all working above poverty level won't "raise the bar for what poverty is", it will eliminate poverty provided the nation's productive capacity is maintained. 

>

... and what, for example is that useful work in some remote village of Abos?  Your fabled CDEP has been tried - not one lasting result came from it, not even the motivation to continue to do simple things like pick up the rubbish... why would a guaranteed job do anything more?  What use is part-time rubbish collection in a remote village (the Ning Nang Nong) when it comes out of the dole money and they are no better off?

Right again, I'm afraid...

.

.

.

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 27^th, 2023 at 6:44pm:

... and what, for example is that useful work in some remote village of Abos?  Your fabled CDEP has been tried - not one lasting result came from it, not even the motivation to continue to do simple things like pick up the rubbish... why would a guaranteed job do anything more?  What use is part-time rubbish collection in a remote village (the Ning Nang Nong) when it comes out of the dole money and they are no better off?

because community maintenance is wanted by the community; the value of the work is seen, and the wage supports a dignified existence, as opposed to subsistence poverty - proved by the CDEP which reduced alcoholism and crime, before it was axed by bean-counters in treasury following IPA free-market/small government ideology. 


Quote:

Right again, I'm afraid...

Refuted above, as always.

>

thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 27^th, 2023 at 5:52pm:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 27th, 2023 at 5:01pm: The trouble with a job guarantee = a wage guarantee is that where there are no jobs, it becomes a matter of appearance money.... Wrong of course. Where there are no jobs in the regular job market, then  government - as employer of last resort - can pay people to do useful work which would otherwise not get done. Useful work.   ie takes time and application to be performed.  Quote: Additionally, as you well know - every time there is more 'discretionary income' lying about, the 'market forces' will always take up the slack via price and COL rises. Wrong again, there is always potential for extra  supply capacity in food and essential utilities if required, which will avoid 'demand pull' inflation.    [quote]  It is no secret that whereas with a single income family you could buy - in the 1980's - a house in Marrickville (livin' next door to Albo)... and that the costs of actually buying a house skyrocketed the moment the MADIF (Mandatory Dual Income Family) for many became the reality - meaning that singles (including gays etc) were rapidly phased out of the market, and thus was created yet another pressure on income levels, demanding a rise sufficient for a single to even get into the market - and at the same time offering two in a couple two such rises..... which... surprise, surprise, created another skyrocketing of home prices.

Interesting that the current  economic model has us all working harder (both adults in a family)  to maintain a satisfactory standard of living, my old man on an average wage supported  a wife and 4 kids in fine style ( annual caravan holidays etc). 


Quote:

Enter The Demons Of Investor Ownership.... and very lax and loose bank rules for investors - and the problems just went higher and higher for the ordinary person. It was never going to work.... if you can't see the results today you are blind...

Yes, the current monetary orthodoxy relies on private debt, ie indebtedness to private financiers/usurers, and 'investment' in the housing Ponzi..


Quote:

Point being - the moment there is a perception in the market place that those with the ready can afford to pay more - prices will rise to suit, so no benefit will ever come from simple pay/income rises.

Productive capacity already mentioned re supply of essentials, which is what we are talking about for non-inflationary wages at the low end.


Quote:

THAT, my sons, is why I constantly advocate that costs of living including housing (and dumping privatisation) must first be brought under control - and THEN the attempt made to improve in real terms the REAL prosperity of the many, as opposed to the massive imbalances currently created by a few having all the prosperity and the many none.

You need to explain HOW these costs will be brought under control. 

I advocate control via  PUBLIC sector debt which can be rolled over indefinitely (provided the nation's productivity is maintained).


Quote:

You will never alleviate poverty by throwing more money at only the lowest end.... all you will do is raise the bar for what constitutes poverty, and thus draw more and more into it and thus generate an even bigger problem,.

You are conceptualising it in the wrong manner; you can ONLY alleviate poverty by ensuring everyone is doing useful work, with govt, acting as ELR.

Having all working above poverty level won't "raise the bar for what poverty is", it will eliminate poverty provided the nation's productive capacity is maintained. 
[/quote]


More bs ...... that's why when things in remote communities are broken, broken down, vandalised & strewn with rubbish ... they sit on their arses whining until govt trades people are sent to repair things & clean up.

As they are being paid welfare(a regular weekly/fortnightly income) one would think they could at least keep the place clean.

Do minor maintenance. Like they would be doing if they were working as a stockman.

Why aren't there community committees doing that sort of work?

Or do you think they need training to learn how to do that?  ::)

They sure know how to use tools when they're breaking in houses etc.  ;D

.

Gnads wrote on Jan 28^th, 2023 at 8:10am:

More bs ...... that's why when things in remote communities are broken, broken down, vandalised & strewn with rubbish ... they sit on their arses whining until govt trades people are sent to repair things & clean up. As they are being paid welfare(a regular weekly/fortnightly income) one would think they could at least keep the place clean. Do minor maintenance. Like they would be doing if they were working as a stockman. Why aren't there community committees doing that sort of work? Or do you think they need training to learn how to do that?  ::) They sure know how to use tools when they're breaking in houses etc.  ;D

Yes - but don't you get it?  dividie's idea is that when they out there break things or they run down, unlike any other householder, they should be paid to do the repairs and upgrades for themselves... like - say - when there was a hole in the plastic pipe to the septic tank - I fixed it with some plaso pipe and cement... so I should be paid tradie callout rate for that, but only if I'm an Abo.

Imagine what the work I'm doing on the 'back room' - the patio thing that I'm turning into an outdoor room insulated roof etc... would be worth...

Cleaning the rubbish out of your own backyard should be done for them, runs the mantra....

---

Gnads wrote on Jan 28^th, 2023 at 8:10am:

More bs ...... that's why when things in remote communities are broken, broken down, vandalised & strewn with rubbish ... they sit on their arses whining until govt trades people are sent to repair things & clean up.

That's what life in welfare-dependent communities is, ie, living on demoralizing poverty-level 'sit-down money', with an epidemic of alcoholism and associated family dysfunction.

And even if you stay sober (which you don't), you can't afford the tools, materials and training required for maintenance.   


Quote:

As they are being paid welfare(a regular weekly/fortnightly income) one would think they could at least keep the place clean.

You are discounting the demoralization of life in poverty ghettos, as noted above. 


Quote:

Do minor maintenance. Like they would be doing if they were working as a stockman. Why aren't there community committees doing that sort of work? Or do you think they need training to learn how to do that?  ::)

Electrical and plumbing requires training.


Quote:

They sure know how to use tools when they're breaking in houses etc.  ;D

Silly remark, of course. 

Fact remains, a community requires most of its members to be employed in useful above-poverty-wage work, for that community to be functional. 

>

Bullshit - only those who want to behave that way do so.

.

.

.

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Jan 28^th, 2023 at 3:06pm:

Bullshit - only those who want to behave that way do so.

You are on shaky ground now, reduced to mere angry denial.

No one WANTS to be criminal, it's a learned behaviour.

>