Top state unionists push ACTU on fees for non-members   :)

Sydney Morning Herald
January 20, 2023


State unions are banding together to pressure the Australian Council of Trade Unions to debate whether workers who aren’t union members should be compelled to stump up for pay deals negotiated on their behalf as the federal government readies its next round of industrial relations reforms.

The Queensland, South Australian and Tasmanian trades halls have backed calls from the NSW and Victorian peak bodies to scrap a Howard-era ban on unions chasing non-members for bargaining fees.

Calls are growing among union leaders to change a law banning them from charging non-members a fee for pay deals.


Queensland Council of Unions acting general secretary Jacqueline King said she was happy to raise it at the meeting of Australian Council of Trade Union and state and territory union secretaries at the beginning of February as it was a major issue for her state body.

“I’d expect there to be a discussion about it, absolutely,” King told this masthead. “They’re going to have to make a call on it.”

She said the ball would then be in the court of the federal government, which is compiling the next tranche of workplace reforms to be introduced this year.

Victoria Trades Hall Council secretary Luke Hilakari said he would also speak in support of fees for non-members, which some union heads have suggested should be equivalent to a year’s membership.

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An ACTU spokesperson said the peak body did not openly discuss the contents of its meetings when asked whether the matter would be allowed to be debated.

Charging a bargaining fee was outlawed by former Liberal prime minister John Howard – a stance maintained under the Rudd-Gillard governments – after multiple unions tried to insert clauses into their enterprise agreements.



The High Court ruled against a levy in 2004 in a legal challenge brought against the Australian Workers’ Union.

The push has drawn condemnation from the Coalition and business lobby, which have accused the union movement of infringing on principles of freedom of association in a bid to increase historically low membership.

Victorian Trades Hall Council secretary Luke Hilakari will support a debate about bargaining service fees at an upcoming meeting of national, state and territory leaders.


ACTU president Michele O’Neil earlier this month signalled her support for revising the laws, saying Australia was unusual internationally by having workplace laws restricting the content of collective agreements.

But when the peak body was pressed on whether it would push to have restrictions on collective agreements loosened, ACTU assistant secretary Scott Connolly said the organisation was focused on using the most recent industrial reforms to win pay rises and improve working conditions.

One of the main features of the government’s Secure Jobs, Better Pay amendments to the Fair Work Act last year is the expansion of multi-employer bargaining, giving workers across greater sections of the economy the ability to band together to bargain for higher pay.

However, United Workers’ Union national secretary Tim Kennedy this month questioned the effectiveness of unions being able to drive those changes with dwindling membership and resources.

King said the reforms placed the onus on unions to negotiate for workers’ rights across various industries.

“It’s placing extra responsibility on unions to be able to secure better outcomes for a wider range of workers,” she said in relation to why bargaining fees were necessary, preferably as part of the next wave of reforms to be introduced by Workplace Relations Minister Tony Burke.

Several union bosses, including Kennedy, Australian Manufacturing Workers Union secretary Steve Murphy, Rail, Tram and Bus Union head Mark Diamond, and Health Services Union national president Gerard Hayes, have called for a legal overhaul to allow non-members to be charged a fee.

SA Unions secretary Dale Beasley said he shared the view of his counterparts, adding “we’ve got a big problem in our country where those union members are forced to subsidise their colleagues who aren’t contributors.”

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“In my decade as a union official, the most consistent complaints from members during wage negotiations was that people who contributed nothing to the outcome got to share equally in the reward,” Beasley said.

Unions Tasmania secretary Jessica Munday said the state body “would also be supportive of overturning bans on bargaining fees for non-members”.

That would upset all the non contributing leaning scabs that now infest the workplace.....

they take the money, the conditions & benefits and never batt an eyelid of guilt

the lowest of the lowest common denominators.

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 8:04am:

That would upset all the non contributing leaning scabs that now infest the workplace..... they take the money, the conditions & benefits and never batt an eyelid of guilt the lowest of the lowest common denominators.

https://amp.smh.com.au/politics/federal/top-state-unionists-push-actu-on-fees-for-non-members-20230119-p5cdzu.html

Gnads - I'm not happy with you this morning.

What you're REALLY saying is this : If I can't do my job in recruiting more members (mind you I myself command an obscene salary) I should be protected by law so I can go about punishing those who refuse to become members to the tune of $550 per annum???

You do realise that Keating, Rudd and Gillard thought this wasn't right.

So why do YOU think it is?

Especially NOW .... right off the back of an unresolved global pandemic driven recession with rising inflation and rising interest rates?

Sounds good to me.

If those workers do not want to pay the dues then they can forefiet their entitlements that unions fought hard to get.
No need to take holidays and sick pay if you do not believe in them.
That's opportunistic.
Scabs.

Been warning yez for years about the true reasons behind the immigration scenario of introducing inimical Third World people here to work.... told yez ages ago that some of those think a Union are the communists and membership will get you shot and dumped on the town tip, and that others simply have no concept of collective bargaining due to the simple fact that they live in small villages where their mental activity is as limited as their horizons... and where, in many cases, they have to keep a constant watch on their neighbours to ensure they do not steal the date patch or whatever and now they need to keep a wary eye open for the black turbans coming for 'heretics' and such...

Such people have no idea of our culture and never will.

Then the public service, in order to cater to their needs which are way and above what yours are - needs to employ some on affirmative action (another component in their oppression here) and thus they are ushered on a red carpet into the hallowed halls of easy work and money for life - undreamt of back in the date fields back home.... (well, when those date palm bolls get rotten - you can't pick very much cotton!) .... via affirmative action and privilege that nobody else ever had here .... until the feminist came along with the same whine ab out their date palm field hand work ...

A British general once described the average Arab, for example, as a guy who lived in a mud hut and maybe held a small garden plot etc, and who was forced to jealously guard it day and night against his rapacious neighbours and any outlanders who might happen along ...  that's one reason they are in their ghettoes, for mutual support, and alsl why their paranoia leads them to claim oppression in a country where they are free to do as they choose when they come from one where they could never go to uni and become a doctor etc in ten lifetimes....

Always was a mistake - always will be.... and now the gene pool and the Australian Link is so diluted that governments like Parrot's Tits and Minns, safely in their ivory towers and fat incomes for life etc, can calmly stand there and talk about handing over whatever they want to the Abos who long ago lost their 'war' against Whites, and KNOW that any dissenting voice will be howled down as racist etc and even attacked physically.

Now you know why they brought all the inimical groups here - so as to reduce the voting and social power of the ordinary folk who once upon a time in Australia would never have countenanced any of this bullshit, but would have said 'earn you way here and earn our respect - we are the sons and daughters of Diggers..."

WK didn't you just start another thread about the union's efforts to force people to join?

Just like the old days, but without the threats and intimidation eh?

Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 8:40am:

Sounds good to me. If those workers do not want to pay the dues then they can forefiet their entitlements that unions fought hard to get. No need to take holidays and sick pay if you do not believe in them.

Exactly.

That's the best solution.

I don't want to see people forced to join a union, and you can't make them pay money they don't want to pay.

So, they can just forgo the union-won entitlements.

No sick pay, annual leave, maternity leave, penalty rates, superannuation, LSL, meal breaks, etc.

You can't get any fairer than that.

The entitlements are granted by the employer, not the union.

Frank wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:10am:

The entitlements are granted by the employer, not the union.

The entitlements were won by the unions, not the employers.

And they're granted by the FWC.

Unionism is a Gay Movement. ;D

All we need is for grappler to start calling them scabs, and we will have gone through the entire repertoire of union recruitment. Again.

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:30am:

All we need is for grappler to start calling them scabs, and we will have gone through the entire repertoire of union recruitment. Again.

No need for name calling, or forcing people to join a union, or forcing them to pay other fees.

Let's be civil.

The solution is simple: union members get union-won entitlements, and non-members don't.

Only Medibank Private members get Medibank Private benefits.  Yeah?

So, only union members should get union-won benefits.

I don't see how any reasonable person can be opposed to this simple, fair solution.

Push to have all Unionists offer up their wives, sisters and daughters to provide pussy towards Australian non-unionist workers and their endeavour to provide Australia with a self-sufficient population growth.

Jasin wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:52am:

Push to have all Unionists offer up their wives, sisters and daughters to provide pussy towards Australian non-unionist workers and their endeavour to provide Australia with a self-sufficient population growth.

So you still want to scab off union members?

Jasin wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:52am:

Push to have all Unionists offer up their wives, sisters and daughters to provide pussy towards Australian non-unionist workers and their endeavour to provide Australia with a self-sufficient population growth.

You know there are female union members too, yeah?   :-/

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:51am:

freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:30am: All we need is for grappler to start calling them scabs, and we will have gone through the entire repertoire of union recruitment. Again. No need for name calling, or forcing people to join a union, or forcing them to pay other fees. Let's be civil. The solution is simple: union members get union-won entitlements, and non-members don't. Only Medibank Private members get Medibank Private benefits.  Yeah? So, only union members should get union-won benefits. I don't see how any reasonable person can be opposed to this simple, fair solution.

Sure. After all, most non-union members earn more anyway. The unions would have no trouble recruiting if they actually benefitted their members, rather than trying to claim credit for the sun coming up in the morning.

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:10pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:51am: freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:30am: All we need is for grappler to start calling them scabs, and we will have gone through the entire repertoire of union recruitment. Again. No need for name calling, or forcing people to join a union, or forcing them to pay other fees. Let's be civil. The solution is simple: union members get union-won entitlements, and non-members don't. Only Medibank Private members get Medibank Private benefits.  Yeah? So, only union members should get union-won benefits. I don't see how any reasonable person can be opposed to this simple, fair solution. Sure. After all, most non-union members earn more anyway. The unions would have no trouble recruiting if they actually benefitted their members, rather than trying to claim credit for the sun coming up in the morning.

You don't see annual leave, sick pay, meal breaks, superannuation, maternity leave, penalty rates, etc. as benefits?

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:10pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:51am: freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:30am: All we need is for grappler to start calling them scabs, and we will have gone through the entire repertoire of union recruitment. Again. No need for name calling, or forcing people to join a union, or forcing them to pay other fees. Let's be civil. The solution is simple: union members get union-won entitlements, and non-members don't. Only Medibank Private members get Medibank Private benefits.  Yeah? So, only union members should get union-won benefits. I don't see how any reasonable person can be opposed to this simple, fair solution. Sure. After all, most non-union members earn more anyway. The unions would have no trouble recruiting if they actually benefitted their members, rather than trying to claim credit for the sun coming up in the morning.

Yeah, not in construction champ.

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:10pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:51am: freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:30am: All we need is for grappler to start calling them scabs, and we will have gone through the entire repertoire of union recruitment. Again. No need for name calling, or forcing people to join a union, or forcing them to pay other fees. Let's be civil. The solution is simple: union members get union-won entitlements, and non-members don't. Only Medibank Private members get Medibank Private benefits.  Yeah? So, only union members should get union-won benefits. I don't see how any reasonable person can be opposed to this simple, fair solution. Sure. After all, most non-union members earn more anyway.

"The evidence for union wage premium come from the Australian Bureau of Statistics, which shows that union members have median weekly earnings from their main job that are 32% more than for non-members."

Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:02pm:

Jasin wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:52am: Push to have all Unionists offer up their wives, sisters and daughters to provide pussy towards Australian non-unionist workers and their endeavour to provide Australia with a self-sufficient population growth. So you still want to scab off union members?

Like Unionists scabbing off Workers?

Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:22pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:10pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:51am: freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:30am: All we need is for grappler to start calling them scabs, and we will have gone through the entire repertoire of union recruitment. Again. No need for name calling, or forcing people to join a union, or forcing them to pay other fees. Let's be civil. The solution is simple: union members get union-won entitlements, and non-members don't. Only Medibank Private members get Medibank Private benefits.  Yeah? So, only union members should get union-won benefits. I don't see how any reasonable person can be opposed to this simple, fair solution. Sure. After all, most non-union members earn more anyway. The unions would have no trouble recruiting if they actually benefitted their members, rather than trying to claim credit for the sun coming up in the morning. Yeah, not in construction champ.

What? Sh*itty Commercial jobs that no tradie would want unless desperate for the work. Crap tradies do the commercial unionised jobs.

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 8:40am:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 8:04am: That would upset all the non contributing leaning scabs that now infest the workplace..... they take the money, the conditions & benefits and never batt an eyelid of guilt the lowest of the lowest common denominators. https://amp.smh.com.au/politics/federal/top-state-unionists-push-actu-on-fees-for-non-members-20230119-p5cdzu.html Gnads - I'm not happy with you this morning. What you're REALLY saying is this : If I can't do my job in recruiting more members (mind you I myself command an obscene salary) I should be protected by law so I can go about punishing those who refuse to become members to the tune of $550 per annum??? You do realise that Keating, Rudd and Gillard thought this wasn't right. So why do YOU think it is? Especially NOW .... right off the back of an unresolved global pandemic driven recession with rising inflation and rising interest rates?

;D Like I actually give a rats arse.... seriously?

When I first entered the Railways in 1973 I joined the relevant Union after I was shown exactly what Unionism had bought to the workplace for the benefit of all employees.

Any fair minded person could see the reasoning there.

At that time anyone who chose not to, objected to & refused to join a Union relevant to their classification (there were many classifications in a railway) would have an equivalent amount of money to their applicable Union dues deducted from their pay every fortnight by the Employer to be given to a nominated charity.

It was a good idea & a fair result for all. Even the employer realised that.

It only changed when slimey Johnny Howard got into the seat in 1996.

Opened the door to all the leaners & scabs who are prepared to take & not contribute - Jasins testament to that.

The same sort of people that come running looking for Union assistance when they think they have been wronged by their employer.

8 hr day, 5 day week - now a 38 hr week, annual leave, sick leave, maternity leave, compassionate leave, cultural leave, meal breaks,workplace health & safety, superannuation, workplace amenities, reasonable hours of work etc. etc.

All part of what Unions have won for their members & not one bit of that was ever given freely out of the goodness of their hearts to workers by employers.

Regarding your 1st paragraph .... don't tell me you're a Union Rep? None that I know are on or commanding obscene salaries.

$550 per annum = $21.15 per fortnight.

The Union dues as Locomotive Driver of my former Union the RTBU is
$29.40 per fortnight = $764.40 per annum.

Other Unions & occupations there covered have much higher dues.

So $550 is a more than reasonable contribution.

Otherwise those who chose not to should forgo any of the above mentioned workplace wages & conditions negotiated & won by Unions.



Other Unions are higher

Frank wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:10am:

The entitlements are granted by the employer, not the union.

Absolutely, positively, indubitably 100% incorrect.

Jasin wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:20am:

Unionism is a Gay Movement. ;D

You obsessing over homosexuality again Scab?

Jasin wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 11:52am:

Push to have all Unionists offer up their wives, sisters and daughters to provide pussy towards Australian non-unionist workers and their endeavour to provide Australia with a self-sufficient population growth.

Idiot

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:10pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:51am: freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:30am: All we need is for grappler to start calling them scabs, and we will have gone through the entire repertoire of union recruitment. Again. No need for name calling, or forcing people to join a union, or forcing them to pay other fees. Let's be civil. The solution is simple: union members get union-won entitlements, and non-members don't. Only Medibank Private members get Medibank Private benefits.  Yeah? So, only union members should get union-won benefits. I don't see how any reasonable person can be opposed to this simple, fair solution. Sure. After all, most non-union members earn more anyway. The unions would have no trouble recruiting if they actually benefitted their members, rather than trying to claim credit for the sun coming up in the morning.

Another one who is 100% incorrect again.

Jasin wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:26pm:

Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:02pm: Jasin wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:52am: Push to have all Unionists offer up their wives, sisters and daughters to provide pussy towards Australian non-unionist workers and their endeavour to provide Australia with a self-sufficient population growth. So you still want to scab off union members? Like Unionists scabbing off Workers?

Doesn't happen ... you're the leaner & scab

that is when you actually have employment.

Jasin wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:28pm:

Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:22pm: freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:10pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:51am: freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:30am: All we need is for grappler to start calling them scabs, and we will have gone through the entire repertoire of union recruitment. Again. No need for name calling, or forcing people to join a union, or forcing them to pay other fees. Let's be civil. The solution is simple: union members get union-won entitlements, and non-members don't. Only Medibank Private members get Medibank Private benefits.  Yeah? So, only union members should get union-won benefits. I don't see how any reasonable person can be opposed to this simple, fair solution. Sure. After all, most non-union members earn more anyway. The unions would have no trouble recruiting if they actually benefitted their members, rather than trying to claim credit for the sun coming up in the morning. Yeah, not in construction champ. What? Sh*itty Commercial jobs that no tradie would want unless desperate for the work. Crap tradies do the commercial unionised jobs.

You're not a tradie

you wouldn't know shyte from clay

So Gonads - do you think that Registered Nurses who just push a Medicine Trolley around in an Aged Care Facility of a boring General Ward should NOT be paid the same amount of money as RN's who work in Emergency and other busier departments?
Are those ACF and GW Nurses 'scabs' who get the same money as harder working Nurses?

Call me bludger, scab, etc all you like.
I'm not going to make my private life available to your exploitation. You must think I'm stupid? ::)
You get wrong'uns and googlies from me only.

The mere coercive manipulation of calling Workers as 'non'-union members shows the corrupt intentions of the Unions.
Workers are workers, they are not 'non'-member to anything else.
The only Scab in this country is the Unions as they wave their Yankee Eureka Flag and have stickers of Cop-Killer Terrorist Ned Kelly as their hero.

Union members earn 32% more than non-members per week. Here’s why.

The data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics clearly shows that union membership equals higher pay, no matter which way you cut it. This is because of a combination of the benefits of union membership

Jasin wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:44pm:

So Gonads - do you think that Registered Nurses who just push a Medicine Trolley around in an Aged Care Facility of a boring General Ward should NOT be paid the same amount of money as RN's who work in Emergency and other busier departments? Are those ACF and GW Nurses 'scabs' who get the same money as harder working Nurses? Call me bludger, scab, etc all you like. I'm not going to make my private life available to your exploitation. You must think I'm stupid? ::) You get wrong'uns and googlies from me only. The mere coercive manipulation of calling Workers as 'non'-union members shows the corrupt intentions of the Unions. Workers are workers, they are not 'non'-member to anything else. The only Scab in this country is the Unions as they wave their Yankee Eureka Flag and have stickers of Cop-Killer Terrorist Ned Kelly as their hero.

I don't have to think it .... you are.

That example is irrelevant .... who decides the definition of "harder" working?

It matters not - if you accept Union won wages & conditions and don't join a Union & contribute to what you enjoy off the back of Unions then you are a leaner & or a scab.

So General Ward and Aged Care Nurses are leaners and scabs off the backs of other Nurses who work in more demanding departments like Emergency, etc upon the same pay rate??

Come now Yankee Unionist - draw the f*ucking line!

The only difference between you and I Gonads is that you need the Union because you will 'always' be a Worker.
;D

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:37pm:

Frank wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:10am: The entitlements are granted by the employer, not the union. Absolutely, positively, indubitably 100% incorrect.

I was a member of the NTEU for about two year. Every branch meeting was a little trip to Moscow circa 1930. They invariable pushed for more Marxist, woke positions, very often in areas that had nothing to do with employment.  Professors referred to themselves as the "workers".  Deadly and organically politicised in a Socialist International kind of way.

I am all for employees and employers negotiating and where it is done locally it is very good for both sideas. But when head office pressures local workers to take the union's or the ACTU's politicised line it can become protracted and bloody minded, leading to bad blood and stalemate. Unions operate like a cartel, something businesses would be rightly punished for.

Jasin wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:57pm:

So General Ward and Aged Care Nurses are leaners and scabs off the backs of other Nurses who work in more demanding departments like Emergency, etc upon the same pay rate?? Come now Yankee Unionist - draw the f*ucking line! The only difference between you and I Gonads is that you need the Union because you will 'always' be a Worker. ;D

Stop repeating yourself .... you're the one making a differentiation between these Nurses. You drew the line idiot.

If they get the same pay it's because they do the same work .... who are you to judge who works harder?

If you take wages & conditions won by Unions & are not in a Union to contribute then you are a leaner & or scab. End of.

Frank wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 1:05pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:37pm: Frank wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:10am: The entitlements are granted by the employer, not the union. Absolutely, positively, indubitably 100% incorrect. I was a member of the NTEU for about two year. Every branch meeting was a little trip to Moscow circa 1930. They invariable pushed for more Marxist, woke positions, very often in areas that had nothing to do with employment.  Professors referred to themselves as the "workers".  Deadly and organically politicised in a Socialist International kind of way. I am all for employees and employers negotiating and where it is done locally it is very good for both sideas. But when head office pressures local workers to take the union's or the ACTU's politicised line it can become protracted and bloody minded, leading to bad blood and stalemate. Unions operate like a cartel, something businesses would be rightly punished for.

And employers don't operate like cartels?

Turn up to local EBA negotiations with an industrial officer & lawyer type & HR personnel to snowball the local floor rep & a couple of workers???  ;D

You know that businessmens/womens associations are in actual fact Unions?

Unions of Employers  ::)

Come on Frank.

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:38pm:

Jasin wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:52am: Push to have all Unionists offer up their wives, sisters and daughters to provide pussy towards Australian non-unionist workers and their endeavour to provide Australia with a self-sufficient population growth. Idiot

Can't argue with that assessment, Gnads.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:19pm:

..You don't see annual leave, sick pay, meal breaks, superannuation, maternity leave, penalty rates, etc. as benefits?

I worked for 30 to 40 years on and off as a self-employed engineering
consultant working through contract agencies in Australia and the UK.

I was never a union member in all those years, and never received the
benefits you list here:

Annual leave, sick pay, meal breaks, superannuation, maternity leave,
penalty rates etc.

I also had to fund my own superannuation and income protection.

As far as my rates of pay were concerned, it was up to me to negotiate
directly with the companies I worked for, both at the start of my contract
and through the tenure of longer contracts, which sometimes extended for
24 or 36 months. 

As a self-employed contractor, the Association of Architects, Engineers,
Surveyors and Draughtsmen of Australia (AAESDA) would not accept
self-employed engineers as members;  only salaried or wages people.

So we were left to fight our own pay battles.

And all this is one of the reasons I'm against any additional public holidays
such as the Victorian grand final Friday holiday, King's Birthday, Labour (sic) Day ,
Melbourne Cup Day, Easter Monday, and all the public holidays "manufactured"
in lieu of those  falling on Saturdays or Sundays.

This year for example New Year's Day fell on a Sunday, so we make the
following Monday a gazetted public holiday.  This is itself is absurd, and
costs the average engineering contract worker (say) $500, while the
salaried engineer pockets that amount.    Is that fair?   Not really, when
you multiply that by the 13 public holidays in Victoria.  ($6,500 in total. Ouch!)

Another massive taxpayer savings could be made in a very simple manner.
State and Federal public servants should work on weekday public holidays,
or if not, then they would not be paid for public holidays.  This could save
potentially billions of dollars annually if the second option were taken.

And yes;  I believe Australia employs far too many public servants (sic)
at all three government levels, with far too many of those sitting in comfortable,
overpaid niches, and protected by aggressive, untouchable unions.

(But that's a topic for another thread.)

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:19pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:10pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:51am: freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:30am: All we need is for grappler to start calling them scabs, and we will have gone through the entire repertoire of union recruitment. Again. No need for name calling, or forcing people to join a union, or forcing them to pay other fees. Let's be civil. The solution is simple: union members get union-won entitlements, and non-members don't. Only Medibank Private members get Medibank Private benefits.  Yeah? So, only union members should get union-won benefits. I don't see how any reasonable person can be opposed to this simple, fair solution. Sure. After all, most non-union members earn more anyway. The unions would have no trouble recruiting if they actually benefitted their members, rather than trying to claim credit for the sun coming up in the morning. You don't see annual leave, sick pay, meal breaks, superannuation, maternity leave, penalty rates, etc. as benefits?

Sure I do. I also benefit from the sun coming up in the morning.

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:27pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:19pm: freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:10pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:51am: freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:30am: All we need is for grappler to start calling them scabs, and we will have gone through the entire repertoire of union recruitment. Again. No need for name calling, or forcing people to join a union, or forcing them to pay other fees. Let's be civil. The solution is simple: union members get union-won entitlements, and non-members don't. Only Medibank Private members get Medibank Private benefits.  Yeah? So, only union members should get union-won benefits. I don't see how any reasonable person can be opposed to this simple, fair solution. Sure. After all, most non-union members earn more anyway. The unions would have no trouble recruiting if they actually benefitted their members, rather than trying to claim credit for the sun coming up in the morning. You don't see annual leave, sick pay, meal breaks, superannuation, maternity leave, penalty rates, etc. as benefits? Sure I do. I also benefit from the sun coming up in the morning.

It doesn't actually come up.

The Earth revolves and creates the illusion of the sun rising over the horizon.

The sun isn't moving at all.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:51pm:

Union members earn 32% more than non-members per week. Here’s why. The data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics clearly shows that union membership equals higher pay, no matter which way you cut it. This is because of a combination of the benefits of union membership

I take issue with your link's information.

It's just not the case.

I have very close family members in the industries listed in your link and there IS no difference in pay if you're a union member or not. 

For those who may not know : irrespective of union membership ... workers in a particular industry are covered by the same award and are paid the same amount per hour and are subject to the same conditions as set out by that award et al.

No offence Greggary but that information is very misleading and deceptive. The union organisation in your link has taken stats out of context and has run with it.

I'll be back later....I need to send a few emails. 

One other thing ....there's a further problem with your link Greggary.

1. Look who presented that misleading and deceptive information.

2. Now look at who fact checked it.

That's right. The same idiots!

Ok I need to contact a few people about this. Many thanks for bringing it up though 👌

---

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:53pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:51pm: Union members earn 32% more than non-members per week. Here’s why. The data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics clearly shows that union membership equals higher pay, no matter which way you cut it. This is because of a combination of the benefits of union membership I take issue with your link's information. It's just not the case.

Take it up with these guys:

"Information sourced from: Australian Bureau of Statistics (August 2020) Characteristics of Employment, Australia, ABS Website".

"Source: The Australia Institute, FWC "

Jasin wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:26pm:

Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:02pm: Jasin wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:52am: Push to have all Unionists offer up their wives, sisters and daughters to provide pussy towards Australian non-unionist workers and their endeavour to provide Australia with a self-sufficient population growth. So you still want to scab off union members? Like Unionists scabbing off Workers?

How?

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 3:10pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 2:53pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:51pm: Union members earn 32% more than non-members per week. Here’s why. The data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics clearly shows that union membership equals higher pay, no matter which way you cut it. This is because of a combination of the benefits of union membership I take issue with your link's information. It's just not the case. Take it up with these guys: "Information sourced from: Australian Bureau of Statistics (August 2020) Characteristics of Employment, Australia, ABS Website". "Source: The Australia Institute, FWC "

As dishonest a statistic as you, tujdy substances.  Higher paid jobs are more unionised - education, health care, public service, construction - than less unionised occopations.

There is no salary gap WITHIN occupation becsuse of uninion membership.

Jasin wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:28pm:

Captain Caveman wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:22pm: freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:10pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:51am: freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:30am: All we need is for grappler to start calling them scabs, and we will have gone through the entire repertoire of union recruitment. Again. No need for name calling, or forcing people to join a union, or forcing them to pay other fees. Let's be civil. The solution is simple: union members get union-won entitlements, and non-members don't. Only Medibank Private members get Medibank Private benefits.  Yeah? So, only union members should get union-won benefits. I don't see how any reasonable person can be opposed to this simple, fair solution. Sure. After all, most non-union members earn more anyway. The unions would have no trouble recruiting if they actually benefitted their members, rather than trying to claim credit for the sun coming up in the morning. Yeah, not in construction champ. What? Sh*itty Commercial jobs that no tradie would want unless desperate for the work. Crap tradies do the commercial unionised jobs.

Are there EBA sites in residential?

AusGeoff wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 1:37pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:19pm: ..You don't see annual leave, sick pay, meal breaks, superannuation, maternity leave, penalty rates, etc. as benefits? I worked for 30 to 40 years on and off as a self-employed engineering consultant working through contract agencies in Australia and the UK. I was never a union member in all those years, and never received the benefits you list here: Annual leave, sick pay, meal breaks, superannuation, maternity leave, penalty rates etc. I also had to fund my own superannuation and income protection. As far as my rates of pay were concerned, it was up to me to negotiate directly with the companies I worked for, both at the start of my contract and through the tenure of longer contracts, which sometimes extended for 24 or 36 months.  As a self-employed contractor, the Association of Architects, Engineers, Surveyors and Draughtsmen of Australia (AAESDA) would not accept self-employed engineers as members;  only salaried or wages people. So we were left to fight our own pay battles. And all this is one of the reasons I'm against any additional public holidays such as the Victorian grand final Friday holiday, King's Birthday, Labour (sic) Day , Melbourne Cup Day, Easter Monday, and all the public holidays "manufactured" in lieu of those  falling on Saturdays or Sundays. This year for example New Year's Day fell on a Sunday, so we make the following Monday a gazetted public holiday.  This is itself is absurd, and costs the average engineering contract worker (say) $500, while the salaried engineer pockets that amount.    Is that fair?   Not really, when you multiply that by the 13 public holidays in Victoria.  ($6,500 in total. Ouch!) Another massive taxpayer savings could be made in a very simple manner. State and Federal public servants should work on weekday public holidays, or if not, then they would not be paid for public holidays.  This could save potentially billions of dollars annually if the second option were taken. And yes;  I believe Australia employs far too many public servants (sic) at all three government levels, with far too many of those sitting in comfortable, overpaid niches, and protected by aggressive, untouchable unions. (But that's a topic for another thread.)

Well, if you were doing it for 30-40 years and didn't factor in holidays, week-ends, rainy days etc when doing your costings then you have noone but yourself to blame.   Savvy businesses would factor all those things in when negotiating their pay rates and employment conditions.

Also, doing it for decades tells me you were on a better overall pay than if you had sought employment by a company as a salaried engineer. Why else doi it as a freelancer otherwise?

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 1:13pm:

Jasin wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:57pm: So General Ward and Aged Care Nurses are leaners and scabs off the backs of other Nurses who work in more demanding departments like Emergency, etc upon the same pay rate?? Come now Yankee Unionist - draw the f*ucking line! The only difference between you and I Gonads is that you need the Union because you will 'always' be a Worker. ;D Stop repeating yourself .... you're the one making a differentiation between these Nurses. You drew the line idiot. If they get the same pay it's because they do the same work .... who are you to judge who works harder? If you take wages & conditions won by Unions & are not in a Union to contribute then you are a leaner & or scab. End of.

Hey Numpty.
It's the Nurses who complain.
The ones who 'work harder', but watch other's work less and get paid the same.
You started it - now f*ucking finish it.
This is what it's like in your can of worms.

In many countries - there is 'paid by performance' rewards.
In other countries - the 'Workers' own the Business and hire the management and admin. Even though the illusion of 'workers only being blue collar' is as primitive as a Lemur's dna connection. White Collars are also 'process workers' with the brain having to work through the processes also.

You're a Unionised numpty who deserves to be a Worker all his life. Suck sh*it to you loser!  ;D

Kat wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 1:36pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:38pm: Jasin wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:52am: Push to have all Unionists offer up their wives, sisters and daughters to provide pussy towards Australian non-unionist workers and their endeavour to provide Australia with a self-sufficient population growth. Idiot Can't argue with that assessment, Gnads.

Can we neuter you Kat? Just to be sure.  ;) Don't want any feral breeding without official registration now.  ;)

...oh, maybe you would like to become a 'non-sexual'?
You know, why say no to men and yes to women -  when you can say no to sex altogether?
C'mon - talk it up like yeah  ::)

Push for all Australians to become the 51st State (Republic) of the USA once the British Union Jack and all things British are gone.

Yep people - pay your 51st State fees. Can't have you scabbing off America now. ;)

Gnads wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:34pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 8:40am: Gnads wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 8:04am: That would upset all the non contributing leaning scabs that now infest the workplace..... they take the money, the conditions & benefits and never batt an eyelid of guilt the lowest of the lowest common denominators. https://amp.smh.com.au/politics/federal/top-state-unionists-push-actu-on-fees-for-non-members-20230119-p5cdzu.html Gnads - I'm not happy with you this morning. What you're REALLY saying is this : If I can't do my job in recruiting more members (mind you I myself command an obscene salary) I should be protected by law so I can go about punishing those who refuse to become members to the tune of $550 per annum??? You do realise that Keating, Rudd and Gillard thought this wasn't right. So why do YOU think it is? Especially NOW .... right off the back of an unresolved global pandemic driven recession with rising inflation and rising interest rates? ;D Like I actually give a rats arse.... seriously? When I first entered the Railways in 1973 I joined the relevant Union after I was shown exactly what Unionism had bought to the workplace for the benefit of all employees. Any fair minded person could see the reasoning there. At that time anyone who chose not to, objected to & refused to join a Union relevant to their classification (there were many classifications in a railway) would have an equivalent amount of money to their applicable Union dues deducted from their pay every fortnight by the Employer to be given to a nominated charity. It was a good idea & a fair result for all. Even the employer realised that. It only changed when slimey Johnny Howard got into the seat in 1996. Opened the door to all the leaners & scabs who are prepared to take & not contribute - Jasins testament to that. The same sort of people that come running looking for Union assistance when they think they have been wronged by their employer. 8 hr day, 5 day week - now a 38 hr week, annual leave, sick leave, maternity leave, compassionate leave, cultural leave, meal breaks,workplace health & safety, superannuation, workplace amenities, reasonable hours of work etc. etc. All part of what Unions have won for their members & not one bit of that was ever given freely out of the goodness of their hearts to workers by employers. Regarding your 1st paragraph .... don't tell me you're a Union Rep? None that I know are on or commanding obscene salaries. $550 per annum = $21.15 per fortnight. The Union dues as Locomotive Driver of my former Union the RTBU is $29.40 per fortnight = $764.40 per annum. Other Unions & occupations there covered have much higher dues. So $550 is a more than reasonable contribution. Otherwise those who chose not to should forgo any of the above mentioned workplace wages & conditions negotiated & won by Unions.

Thank you Grandpa Gnads for that anecdote (which clearly belongs in the realms of ancient history).

If you don't mind could we please fast forward to 2023?

Unions are not just passé....they are notoriously disregarded as institutions which focus on scamming, scabbing and rorting the honest worker.

And that's why union membership in Australia is more IRRELEVANT than ever. 👇

---

Nothing but a pack of scabs leeching off the worker in the Union paying the way for wage cases and fights over conditions....

Yeah - nick off back to America with your Unionism.
Poor American Workers are neglected and having to work for a measly few dollars and beg for tips.

Australian Workers are over-paid. Australian Workers are one of the highest paid Workforces in the world.
Besides the high cost of living in this country.
The lack of Industry and other Businesses setting up shop here in this country is very apparent.

I've worked along side many a 'union member' and I've never seen an blatant apparent 'magical aura' of them being better than other workers. Most a piss-heads and druggos all trying to sponge more money with a strike or two a year. Most are 'Compo' rorters - coming in with injuries from whatever on the weekend to rig something up to make it appear like it happened at work.
Most famous was with the Wharfies and other major industries where the workers always had an extra bundy card to cover the cost of the beer slabs.

The Union is nothing more than a corrupt Mafia-like entity - that no-one wants in this country anymore.

Go help those poor American Workers.
What? You can only manage a few dollars for them?
You Unions must be really crap! ::)
...you're only here to feed your own Union pockets.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 3:10pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 2:53pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:51pm: Union members earn 32% more than non-members per week. Here’s why. The data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics clearly shows that union membership equals higher pay, no matter which way you cut it. This is because of a combination of the benefits of union membership I take issue with your link's information. It's just not the case. Take it up with these guys: "Information sourced from: Australian Bureau of Statistics (August 2020) Characteristics of Employment, Australia, ABS Website". "Source: The Australia Institute, FWC "

https://www.australianunions.org.au/2021/12/07/union-members-earn-32-more-than-non-members-per-week-heres-why/

Greg you might need to take a closer look at what your link is stating then go to the ABS and see what that source is stating.

While you do that I'll quietly inform everyone else that actual mistakes wrt figures exist just by comparing both sources. Against each other.

The other spot of bother is this : the sample size which the ABS are NOW using in order to produce their results. They sample 26 000 dwellings across Australia. That's right....ONLY 26 thousand homes. This affects the reliability of estimates provided (and is referred to as sampling error - essentially too small a sample is surveyed).

In addition to that 👆..... there's this other spot of bother 👇:

"Since the April 2020 release, and given the extent of change in Labour Force time series due to COVID-19, the ABS has temporarily suspended trend series and moved to using forward factors for seasonal adjustment."

😐

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 6:16pm:

Nothing but a pack of scabs leeching off the worker in the Union paying the way for wage cases and fights over conditions....

Grandpa - that WAS the case wayyyyyyyt back in the 70's.

Not now. Ok?

The grubs of today ARE the unions! Their officials are earning top dollar while those workers they represent don't. The workers on the front lines are paying dues to fund the pay rises of those fat cats employed within the union movement.

The union movement is an institutional hierarchy that's politically aligned to Labor. Take a look at Bob Hawke and Bill Shorten for a clue. Those 2 political figures represent the period from the 1980's right through to the present. Whatever you knew of the union movement wayyyyy back in the day .... is gone. Fact!

26,000 is not a small sample.

Jovial Monk wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 6:43pm:

26,000 is not a small sample.

Not by a long shot.

That's an excellent sample size for Australian households.

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 12:19pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:10pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:51am: freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:30am: All we need is for grappler to start calling them scabs, and we will have gone through the entire repertoire of union recruitment. Again. No need for name calling, or forcing people to join a union, or forcing them to pay other fees. Let's be civil. The solution is simple: union members get union-won entitlements, and non-members don't. Only Medibank Private members get Medibank Private benefits.  Yeah? So, only union members should get union-won benefits. I don't see how any reasonable person can be opposed to this simple, fair solution. Sure. After all, most non-union members earn more anyway. The unions would have no trouble recruiting if they actually benefitted their members, rather than trying to claim credit for the sun coming up in the morning. You don't see annual leave, sick pay, meal breaks, superannuation, maternity leave, penalty rates, etc. as benefits?

No, he's entitled to them  :D

Fee 'em all - let God sort 'em out ..... scabs .......

Most non-union members earn more -  LMFAO .... only because the Union guarantees the claims by putting their cash and sometimes their own livelihoods on the line to ensure those are kept.  Companies that fight Unions go down more often than those that don't.

Let's put that idea into play and see how long it takes to settle out..... only Union paid-up members get the benefits of Union negotiation.

The decline of union membership has been mirrored in the application of Industrial relations legislation from the right predominantly but the left have not been a lot better.

Business the business unions and the Liberal party have been successful in finding ways to neuter the unions.

The clear result has been decades of wage and condition stagnation. There is no case to argue otherwise.

Dnarever wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 8:43pm:

The decline of union membership has been mirrored in the application of Industrial relations legislation from the right predominantly but the left have not been a lot better. Business the business unions and the Liberal party have been successful in finding ways to neuter the unions. The clear result has been decades of wage and condition stagnation. There is no case to argue otherwise.

That's the aim - reduce the peasants who do the toil to third world status of beggars while promoting their betters to billions beyond their wildest dreams... just like in China... if the Chinese New Emperor can build a family worth of hundreds of billions - why can't they, goes the reasoning.... it's only right and just...

freediver wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:27pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:19pm: freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:10pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:51am: freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:30am: All we need is for grappler to start calling them scabs, and we will have gone through the entire repertoire of union recruitment. Again. No need for name calling, or forcing people to join a union, or forcing them to pay other fees. Let's be civil. The solution is simple: union members get union-won entitlements, and non-members don't. Only Medibank Private members get Medibank Private benefits.  Yeah? So, only union members should get union-won benefits. I don't see how any reasonable person can be opposed to this simple, fair solution. Sure. After all, most non-union members earn more anyway. The unions would have no trouble recruiting if they actually benefitted their members, rather than trying to claim credit for the sun coming up in the morning. You don't see annual leave, sick pay, meal breaks, superannuation, maternity leave, penalty rates, etc. as benefits? Sure I do. I also benefit from the sun coming up in the morning.

That was the unions first deal with the creator, originally management planned for the sun to come up 10 hrs earlier and go down 2 hours later in order to maximise the workday to the then 22 hrs work 2 hrs to get ready for more work.   

Hmmm .... 2 observations:

1. All of you will whinge.

2. None of you will work. 

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:53pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:51pm: Union members earn 32% more than non-members per week. Here’s why. The data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics clearly shows that union membership equals higher pay, no matter which way you cut it. This is because of a combination of the benefits of union membership I take issue with your link's information. It's just not the case. I have very close family members in the industries listed in your link and there IS no difference in pay if you're a union member or not.  For those who may not know : irrespective of union membership ... workers in a particular industry are covered by the same award and are paid the same amount per hour and are subject to the same conditions as set out by that award et al. No offence Greggary but that information is very misleading and deceptive. The union organisation in your link has taken stats out of context and has run with it. I'll be back later....I need to send a few emails.

And who do you think was behind getting the award system up & running... creating equity - same job same pay????? The Union movement.

Another example of Union benefits workers enjoy.

And another reason why workers should belong to a Union & contribute towards all the benefits that so many take for granted.

Jasin wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 4:04pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 1:13pm: Jasin wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:57pm: So General Ward and Aged Care Nurses are leaners and scabs off the backs of other Nurses who work in more demanding departments like Emergency, etc upon the same pay rate?? Come now Yankee Unionist - draw the f*ucking line! The only difference between you and I Gonads is that you need the Union because you will 'always' be a Worker. ;D Stop repeating yourself .... you're the one making a differentiation between these Nurses. You drew the line idiot. If they get the same pay it's because they do the same work .... who are you to judge who works harder? If you take wages & conditions won by Unions & are not in a Union to contribute then you are a leaner & or scab. End of. Hey Numpty. It's the Nurses who complain. The ones who 'work harder', but watch other's work less and get paid the same. You started it - now f*ucking finish it. This is what it's like in your can of worms. In many countries - there is 'paid by performance' rewards. In other countries - the 'Workers' own the Business and hire the management and admin. Even though the illusion of 'workers only being blue collar' is as primitive as a Lemur's dna connection. White Collars are also 'process workers' with the brain having to work through the processes also. You're a Unionised numpty who deserves to be a Worker all his life. Suck sh*it to you loser!  ;D

The can of worms is between your ears.

I'd prefer to had been a worker all my life - 46 years in the one industry - doing a raft of different jobs.

Than to be an unemployed dole bludging goose who when he was employed was a leaner/scab/brown nose who couldn't stick at it for any length of time.

Your resume could be written on the head of a pin with a lump of charcoal & there would still be space. 

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 6:10pm:

Gnads wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:34pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 8:40am: Gnads wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 8:04am: That would upset all the non contributing leaning scabs that now infest the workplace..... they take the money, the conditions & benefits and never batt an eyelid of guilt the lowest of the lowest common denominators. https://amp.smh.com.au/politics/federal/top-state-unionists-push-actu-on-fees-for-non-members-20230119-p5cdzu.html Gnads - I'm not happy with you this morning. What you're REALLY saying is this : If I can't do my job in recruiting more members (mind you I myself command an obscene salary) I should be protected by law so I can go about punishing those who refuse to become members to the tune of $550 per annum??? You do realise that Keating, Rudd and Gillard thought this wasn't right. So why do YOU think it is? Especially NOW .... right off the back of an unresolved global pandemic driven recession with rising inflation and rising interest rates? ;D Like I actually give a rats arse.... seriously? When I first entered the Railways in 1973 I joined the relevant Union after I was shown exactly what Unionism had bought to the workplace for the benefit of all employees. Any fair minded person could see the reasoning there. At that time anyone who chose not to, objected to & refused to join a Union relevant to their classification (there were many classifications in a railway) would have an equivalent amount of money to their applicable Union dues deducted from their pay every fortnight by the Employer to be given to a nominated charity. It was a good idea & a fair result for all. Even the employer realised that. It only changed when slimey Johnny Howard got into the seat in 1996. Opened the door to all the leaners & scabs who are prepared to take & not contribute - Jasins testament to that. The same sort of people that come running looking for Union assistance when they think they have been wronged by their employer. 8 hr day, 5 day week - now a 38 hr week, annual leave, sick leave, maternity leave, compassionate leave, cultural leave, meal breaks,workplace health & safety, superannuation, workplace amenities, reasonable hours of work etc. etc. All part of what Unions have won for their members & not one bit of that was ever given freely out of the goodness of their hearts to workers by employers. Regarding your 1st paragraph .... don't tell me you're a Union Rep? None that I know are on or commanding obscene salaries. $550 per annum = $21.15 per fortnight. The Union dues as Locomotive Driver of my former Union the RTBU is $29.40 per fortnight = $764.40 per annum. Other Unions & occupations there covered have much higher dues. So $550 is a more than reasonable contribution. Otherwise those who chose not to should forgo any of the above mentioned workplace wages & conditions negotiated & won by Unions. Thank you Grandpa Gnads for that anecdote (which clearly belongs in the realms of ancient history). If you don't mind could we please fast forward to 2023? Unions are not just passé....they are notoriously disregarded as institutions which focus on scamming, scabbing and rorting the honest worker. And that's why union membership in Australia is more IRRELEVANT than ever. 👇

Absolute balderdash.

The biggest scammers & rorters of peoples labour i.e. wage theft are the businesses they work for & the non Unionised scabs who work along side them .... taking without contribution.

All business associations are Unions of Employers...

why the hypocrisy??

Jasin wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 6:22pm:

Yeah - nick off back to America with your Unionism. Poor American Workers are neglected and having to work for a measly few dollars and beg for tips. Australian Workers are over-paid. Australian Workers are one of the highest paid Workforces in the world. Besides the high cost of living in this country. The lack of Industry and other Businesses setting up shop here in this country is very apparent. I've worked along side many a 'union member' and I've never seen an blatant apparent 'magical aura' of them being better than other workers. Most a piss-heads and druggos all trying to sponge more money with a strike or two a year. Most are 'Compo' rorters - coming in with injuries from whatever on the weekend to rig something up to make it appear like it happened at work. Most famous was with the Wharfies and other major industries where the workers always had an extra bundy card to cover the cost of the beer slabs. The Union is nothing more than a corrupt Mafia-like entity - that no-one wants in this country anymore. Go help those poor American Workers. What? You can only manage a few dollars for them? You Unions must be really crap! ::) ...you're only here to feed your own Union pockets.

An infantile assessment at best ... clueless.

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 6:43pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 6:16pm: Nothing but a pack of scabs leeching off the worker in the Union paying the way for wage cases and fights over conditions.... Grandpa - that WAS the case wayyyyyyyt back in the 70's. Not now. Ok? The grubs of today ARE the unions! Their officials are earning top dollar while those workers they represent don't. The workers on the front lines are paying dues to fund the pay rises of those fat cats employed within the union movement. The union movement is an institutional hierarchy that's politically aligned to Labor. Take a look at Bob Hawke and Bill Shorten for a clue. Those 2 political figures represent the period from the 1980's right through to the present. Whatever you knew of the union movement wayyyyy back in the day .... is gone. Fact!

What rot. Unionists/workers don't get ripped off/underpaid by Unions.

You wouldn't know what Union delegates get paid, most are in the workplace doing the same job as any other worker or member ...

and why wouldn't full time officials be paid reasonable salaries?

There's not one Union Official in this country that earns the obscene multi $million dollar salaries & bonuses paid to CEOs & business executives & govt bureaucrats.

Gnads wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 4:12am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 6:43pm: Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 6:16pm: Nothing but a pack of scabs leeching off the worker in the Union paying the way for wage cases and fights over conditions.... Grandpa - that WAS the case wayyyyyyyt back in the 70's. Not now. Ok? The grubs of today ARE the unions! Their officials are earning top dollar while those workers they represent don't. The workers on the front lines are paying dues to fund the pay rises of those fat cats employed within the union movement. The union movement is an institutional hierarchy that's politically aligned to Labor. Take a look at Bob Hawke and Bill Shorten for a clue. Those 2 political figures represent the period from the 1980's right through to the present. Whatever you knew of the union movement wayyyyy back in the day .... is gone. Fact! What rot. Unionists/workers don't get ripped off/underpaid by Unions. You wouldn't know what Union delegates get paid, most are in the workplace doing the same job as any other worker or member ... and why wouldn't full time officials be paid reasonable salaries? There's not one Union Official in this country that earns the obscene multi $million dollar salaries & bonuses paid to CEOs & business executives & govt bureaucrats.

That's right - and they receive zero payment for their time and effort and even for putting their own jobs on the line to back their mates the Old Australian Way.  Now we have the New Australian Way - erh.... yeah .... yeah .... we'll be right behind you... sure.... sure... true story..... if they get at you personally for representing us we'll back you to the hilt..... true story... then they run like scared rabbits and leave the delegate in the lurch.

Gnads wrote on Jan 24^th, 2023 at 4:06am:

Jasin wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 6:22pm: Yeah - nick off back to America with your Unionism. Poor American Workers are neglected and having to work for a measly few dollars and beg for tips. Australian Workers are over-paid. Australian Workers are one of the highest paid Workforces in the world. Besides the high cost of living in this country. The lack of Industry and other Businesses setting up shop here in this country is very apparent. I've worked along side many a 'union member' and I've never seen an blatant apparent 'magical aura' of them being better than other workers. Most a piss-heads and druggos all trying to sponge more money with a strike or two a year. Most are 'Compo' rorters - coming in with injuries from whatever on the weekend to rig something up to make it appear like it happened at work. Most famous was with the Wharfies and other major industries where the workers always had an extra bundy card to cover the cost of the beer slabs. The Union is nothing more than a corrupt Mafia-like entity - that no-one wants in this country anymore. Go help those poor American Workers. What? You can only manage a few dollars for them? You Unions must be really crap! ::) ...you're only here to feed your own Union pockets. An infantile assessment at best ... clueless.

And yet you have nothing to offer up to say otherwise.

I reckon you're the typical Ted Bullpit Union on the piss guy, eh?

I don't know why you even bother replying to lusa or Xavier  ... both have never done a day's work in their lives

greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23^rd, 2023 at 2:31pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 2:27pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:19pm: freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 12:10pm: greggerypeccary wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:51am: freediver wrote on Jan 23rd, 2023 at 11:30am: All we need is for grappler to start calling them scabs, and we will have gone through the entire repertoire of union recruitment. Again. No need for name calling, or forcing people to join a union, or forcing them to pay other fees. Let's be civil. The solution is simple: union members get union-won entitlements, and non-members don't. Only Medibank Private members get Medibank Private benefits.  Yeah? So, only union members should get union-won benefits. I don't see how any reasonable person can be opposed to this simple, fair solution. Sure. After all, most non-union members earn more anyway. The unions would have no trouble recruiting if they actually benefitted their members, rather than trying to claim credit for the sun coming up in the morning. You don't see annual leave, sick pay, meal breaks, superannuation, maternity leave, penalty rates, etc. as benefits? Sure I do. I also benefit from the sun coming up in the morning. It doesn't actually come up. The Earth revolves and creates the illusion of the sun rising over the horizon. The sun isn't moving at all.

And yet I still benefit from it.

Unions would never allow employees to systematically pay different rates to union and non-union members. It would be the final nail in their coffin.

Watch their demands get more and more absurd as they fade into irrelevance.