FINALLY, A FEDERAL BUDGET THAT DELIVERS FOR CLEAN ENERGY   :)

25 OCTOBER, 2022
Clean Energy Council

The Albanese Government's Budget expenditure to accelerate clean energy will be critical to easing cost-of-living pressures.

With close to $25 billion committed to clean energy spending, this is a budget of a Federal Government that clearly understands the importance of the clean energy transition. This funding supports Australia's rapid transition to renewable energy, ensuring more Australians can access clean, low-cost electricity.   :)

"This is the medium-to-long-term Federal Government expenditure that our industry has long called for," said Clean Energy Council Chief Executive, Kane Thornton.

"Tonight's announcements reveal a breadth and depth of commitment not seen before when it comes to successfully managing a fast and fair transition to renewable energy.

"Funding, like that announced last week under the Rewiring the Nation program to proceed with Marinus Link and for Clean Energy Finance Corporation funding for the Victoria-NSW KerangLink interconnector, enabling more clean, low-cost renewable energy and storage to power Australian homes and business is what will ultimately ease cost-of-living pressures.

"We're being warned that there is more pain on the way in the short-term due to our reliance on an energy system built around the failing dirty technologies of the past – unreliable coal and expensive gas. Tonight's Federal Budget gets Australia on the right track, making the most of the renewable energy boom and setting our nation up for clean energy superpower status.

"It's a Budget that has prioritised funding in the renewable energy labour market that supports a growing and diverse regional workforce. Clean, low-cost energy can provide enormous opportunities for workers, communities and our environment. After a decade in the energy wilderness, tonight's Federal Budget accelerates the transition to clean, affordable and reliable renewable energy while investing heavily in the jobs and skills needed to realise that transition."

ENDS

$225million for batteries. Based on one battery 100MW for $90M that's less than 270MW. ::)

whiteknight wrote on Oct 27^th, 2022 at 4:15pm:

FINALLY, A FEDERAL BUDGET THAT DELIVERS FOR CLEAN ENERGY   :) 25 OCTOBER, 2022 Clean Energy Council The Albanese Government's Budget expenditure to accelerate clean energy will be critical to easing cost-of-living pressures. With close to $25 billion committed to clean energy spending, this is a budget of a Federal Government that clearly understands the importance of the clean energy transition. This funding supports Australia's rapid transition to renewable energy, ensuring more Australians can access clean, low-cost electricity.   :) "This is the medium-to-long-term Federal Government expenditure that our industry has long called for," said Clean Energy Council Chief Executive, Kane Thornton. "Tonight's announcements reveal a breadth and depth of commitment not seen before when it comes to successfully managing a fast and fair transition to renewable energy. "Funding, like that announced last week under the Rewiring the Nation program to proceed with Marinus Link and for Clean Energy Finance Corporation funding for the Victoria-NSW KerangLink interconnector, enabling more clean, low-cost renewable energy and storage to power Australian homes and business is what will ultimately ease cost-of-living pressures. "We're being warned that there is more pain on the way in the short-term due to our reliance on an energy system built around the failing dirty technologies of the past – unreliable coal and expensive gas. Tonight's Federal Budget gets Australia on the right track, making the most of the renewable energy boom and setting our nation up for clean energy superpower status. "It's a Budget that has prioritised funding in the renewable energy labour market that supports a growing and diverse regional workforce. Clean, low-cost energy can provide enormous opportunities for workers, communities and our environment. After a decade in the energy wilderness, tonight's Federal Budget accelerates the transition to clean, affordable and reliable renewable energy while investing heavily in the jobs and skills needed to realise that transition." ENDS

AnAl said we would save around $275 a year on electricity before he was elected now he is saying our power bills will go up by over 50%.

How are people like you going to afford higher electricity prices?

Quote:

The Albanese Government's Budget expenditure to accelerate clean energy will be critical to easing cost-of-living pressures.

I'll believe that when I see it.

Power bills are set to spike 56%

Thousands of people will be destitute.  :(

whiteknight wrote on Oct 27^th, 2022 at 4:15pm:

FINALLY, A FEDERAL BUDGET THAT DELIVERS FOR CLEAN ENERGY   :) 25 OCTOBER, 2022 Clean Energy Council The Albanese Government's Budget expenditure to accelerate clean energy will be critical to easing cost-of-living pressures. With close to $25 billion committed to clean energy spending, this is a budget of a Federal Government that clearly understands the importance of the clean energy transition. This funding supports Australia's rapid transition to renewable energy, ensuring more Australians can access clean, low-cost electricity.   :)

True, but in the meantime the Finace Minister is peddling the nonsense she can't pay the exorbitant electricity bills of low-income families will be facing in the near term, because "it will feed into inflation".

She's as useless for Labor's cause as an ashtray on a motorcycle.


Quote:

"This is the medium-to-long-term Federal Government expenditure that our industry has long called for," said Clean Energy Council Chief Executive, Kane Thornton. "Tonight's announcements reveal a breadth and depth of commitment not seen before when it comes to successfully managing a fast and fair transition to renewable energy. "Funding, like that announced last week under the Rewiring the Nation program to proceed with Marinus Link and for Clean Energy Finance Corporation funding for the Victoria-NSW KerangLink interconnector, enabling more clean, low-cost renewable energy and storage to power Australian homes and business is what will ultimately ease cost-of-living pressures. "We're being warned that there is more pain on the way in the short-term due to our reliance on an energy system built around the failing dirty technologies of the past – unreliable coal and expensive gas. Tonight's Federal Budget gets Australia on the right track, making the most of the renewable energy boom and setting our nation up for clean energy superpower status. "It's a Budget that has prioritised funding in the renewable energy labour market that supports a growing and diverse regional workforce. Clean, low-cost energy can provide enormous opportunities for workers, communities and our environment. After a decade in the energy wilderness, tonight's Federal Budget accelerates the transition to clean, affordable and reliable renewable energy while investing heavily in the jobs and skills needed to realise that transition." ENDS

Yes, all good...except it's time for Labor to stop peddling the Coalition's 'debt and deficit' mythology, which she claims is the reason why Labor can't support low-income families (....4 decades after Bob Hawke's famous remark).

Captain Nemo wrote on Oct 29^th, 2022 at 1:31pm:

Power bills are set to spike 56% Thousands of people will be destitute.  :(

Some businesses will end up closing.

AnAl is talking utter bullshite.  There is nowhere in the world that the use of so called 'renewables' has resulted in lower power prices or a reliable power supply. 

Belgarion wrote on Oct 29^th, 2022 at 8:20pm:

AnAl is talking utter bullshite.  There is nowhere in the world that the use of so called 'renewables' has resulted in lower power prices or a reliable power supply.

Er...that's because the necessary infrastructure has yet to be rolled out.....against the massive resistance of the price-gauging, filthy fossil industry.

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 30^th, 2022 at 11:03am:

Er...that's because the necessary infrastructure has yet to be rolled out.....against the massive resistance of the price-gauging, filthy fossil industry.

That's because you want to close them before the at least twice solar and wind capacity is installed. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

lee wrote on Oct 31^st, 2022 at 4:35pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 30th, 2022 at 11:03am: Er...that's because the necessary infrastructure has yet to be rolled out.....against the massive resistance of the price-gauging, filthy fossil industry. That's because you want to close them before the at least twice solar and wind capacity is installed. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

No; I want renewables infrastructure to be rolled out ASAP, while fossil production is slowly reduced, consistent with ensuring sufficient energy in the grid.

But the private fossil companies are still wanting to increase output and profits...

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 1^st, 2022 at 8:35am:

lee wrote on Oct 31st, 2022 at 4:35pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 30th, 2022 at 11:03am: Er...that's because the necessary infrastructure has yet to be rolled out.....against the massive resistance of the price-gauging, filthy fossil industry. That's because you want to close them before the at least twice solar and wind capacity is installed. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D No; I want renewables infrastructure to be rolled out ASAP, while fossil production is slowly reduced, consistent with ensuring sufficient energy in the grid. But the private fossil companies are still wanting to increase output and profits...

There is certainly price gouging by the coal and gas industry, taking advantage of the problems caused by the misplaced faith in so called 'renewables' and also blaming covid and the Ukraine war for every cent they are squeezing out of the community. However this does not alter the fact that the only reliable means of power  generation in Australia today is fossil fuels.

Wind and solar do not have the capability to provide a continuous power supply. The limitations inherent in the process simply will not permit it. If we want to move away from coal and gas then the only option is nuclear power.

Belgarion wrote on Nov 1^st, 2022 at 8:58am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 1st, 2022 at 8:35am: lee wrote on Oct 31st, 2022 at 4:35pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 30th, 2022 at 11:03am: Er...that's because the necessary infrastructure has yet to be rolled out.....against the massive resistance of the price-gauging, filthy fossil industry. That's because you want to close them before the at least twice solar and wind capacity is installed. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D No; I want renewables infrastructure to be rolled out ASAP, while fossil production is slowly reduced, consistent with ensuring sufficient energy in the grid. But the private fossil companies are still wanting to increase output and profits... There is certainly price gouging by the coal and gas industry, taking advantage of the problems caused by the misplaced faith in so called 'renewables' and also blaming covid and the Ukraine war for every cent they are squeezing out of the community. However this does not alter the fact that the only reliable means of power  generation in Australia today is fossil fuels. Wind and solar do not have the capability to provide a continuous power supply. The limitations inherent in the process simply will not permit it. If we want to move away from coal and gas then the only option is nuclear power.

I'm not sure that is the case in Oz: only 25 million people living in a mostly hot desert the size of China could surely power itself with renewables (plus sufficient pumped hydro storage) alone.

But yes, globally, it seems nuclear power will be necessary for base supply. 

In any case, we can exit fossils.

Credit Suisse’s Saul Kavonic says many of the unintended consequences of intervention warned about years ago are now coming to fruition. “Federal and state governments have made a mess of the power market over the last decade, and are now looking to make a mess of the gas market,” he says.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/economics/intervention-in-the-energy-market-may-have-unintended-consequences/news-story/6e86ead768bce9fa6f0c9cac3d714baa

From the lucky country to the stupid country in 20 years.

Frank wrote on Nov 1^st, 2022 at 10:34am:

Credit Suisse’s Saul Kavonic says many of the unintended consequences of intervention warned about years ago are now coming to fruition. “Federal and state governments have made a mess of the power market over the last decade, and are now looking to make a mess of the gas market,” he says. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/economics/intervention-in-the-energy-market-may-have-unintended-consequences/news-story/6e86ead768bce9fa6f0c9cac3d714baa From the lucky country to the stupid country in 20 years.

That's because  essential energy production is still in private hands.

It's time to nationalize the energy sector, since the greedy private sector - by definition - will never allow an orderly transition to renewables, as fossil companies attempt to maintain their extortionate profits. 

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 1^st, 2022 at 8:35am:

No; I want renewables infrastructure to be rolled out ASAP, while fossil production is slowly reduced, consistent with ensuring sufficient energy in the grid.

You can't reduce fossil fuel UNTIL such time as there us sufficient proven renewables reserves. ::)

lee wrote on Nov 1^st, 2022 at 2:22pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 1st, 2022 at 8:35am: No; I want renewables infrastructure to be rolled out ASAP, while fossil production is slowly reduced, consistent with ensuring sufficient energy in the grid. You can't reduce fossil fuel UNTIL such time as there us sufficient proven renewables reserves. ::)

That's what I said;   "renewables" includes the required necessary pumped-hydro strorage.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 1^st, 2022 at 5:23pm:

That's what I said;   "renewables" includes the required necessary pumped-hydro strorage.

Nope.

He reminds me of you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJlgio-UOng

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 1^st, 2022 at 5:23pm:

lee wrote on Nov 1st, 2022 at 2:22pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 1st, 2022 at 8:35am: No; I want renewables infrastructure to be rolled out ASAP, while fossil production is slowly reduced, consistent with ensuring sufficient energy in the grid. You can't reduce fossil fuel UNTIL such time as there us sufficient proven renewables reserves. ::) That's what I said;   "renewables" includes the required necessary pumped-hydro strorage.

Pumped hydro. How much energy does it take to pump water UP a hill in order to generate energy by the same water falling DOWN the hill?

This must be the stupidest, most hare-brained idea in a long time. No wonder Turnbull thought of it, promoted it and the CCP parrot stooge here claps to it.
While China builds 100+ coal fire power stations.

Two words for you, stooge - fuqqer the hell orff.i

lee wrote on Nov 1^st, 2022 at 7:45pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 1st, 2022 at 5:23pm: That's what I said;   "renewables" includes the required necessary pumped-hydro strorage. Nope. He reminds me of you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJlgio-UOng

That's not debate. Let's see what Frank has to say....

Frank wrote on Nov 1^st, 2022 at 8:43pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 1st, 2022 at 5:23pm: lee wrote on Nov 1st, 2022 at 2:22pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 1st, 2022 at 8:35am: No; I want renewables infrastructure to be rolled out ASAP, while fossil production is slowly reduced, consistent with ensuring sufficient energy in the grid. You can't reduce fossil fuel UNTIL such time as there us sufficient proven renewables reserves. ::) That's what I said;   "renewables" includes the required necessary pumped-hydro strorage. Pumped hydro. How much energy does it take to pump water UP a hill in order to generate energy by the same water falling DOWN the hill?

The point is, there are times when renewables are generated excess to requirements, this free energy is stored by pumping water uphill. 


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This must be the stupidest, most hare-brained idea in a long time. No wonder Turnbull thought of it, promoted it and the CCP parrot stooge here claps to it. While China builds 100+ coal fire power stations.

The elegant simplicity of pumped hydro storage is addressed above; as for China: unlike mature economies like the US and Oz, China needs to DOUBLE it power output in the next decade, to achieve middle income (first world) per capita prosperity by 2035.

So yes, China needs to open more coal mines as well as rolling out renewables plus nuclear at the fastest rate of any nation on the planet - as it is now doing.

Rolling out coal is faster and cheaper than building pumped hydro and renewables plus smart grid  infrastructure; so if you are faced with needing to triple per capita income ASAP, coal needs to be part of the mix. Unlike in mature economies which can indeed begin exiting coal now, since these nations aren't faced with needing to lift per capita GDP. 

In any case, China plans to reach peak CO2 emissions by 2030, after that.....no new coal mines, as China will be in the same position in 2030 as OZ is now, and will also be able to begin reducing coal and gas.   


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Two words for you, stooge - fuqqer the hell orff.

I'm here to educate the likes of you...so obviously I need to be here for some time yet....i

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 10:21am:

In any case, China plans to reach peak CO2 emissions by 2030, after that.....no new coal mines, as China will be in the same position in 2030 as OZ is now, and will also be able to begin reducing coal and gas.

That is an aspirational goal. Whether they achieve it is moot. ::)

Paris is all about aspirational goals and has no teeth.

lee wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2022 at 4:46pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 3rd, 2022 at 10:21am: In any case, China plans to reach peak CO2 emissions by 2030, after that.....no new coal mines, as China will be in the same position in 2030 as OZ is now, and will also be able to begin reducing coal and gas.    That is an aspirational goal. Whether they achieve it is moot. ::) Paris is all about aspirational goals and has no teeth.

True...because governments are beholden to obsolete neoliberal market orthodoxy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 4^th, 2022 at 10:06am:

True...because governments are beholden to obsolete neoliberal market orthodoxy.

Pure BS. Even the you beaut leftist ones can't get renewables to work. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

lee wrote on Nov 4^th, 2022 at 6:15pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 4th, 2022 at 10:06am: True...because governments are beholden to obsolete neoliberal market orthodoxy. Pure BS. Even the you beaut leftist ones can't get renewables to work. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You blind neoliberal market ideologue.....

https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/other/world-plunging-towards-societal-collapse-as-era-of-cheap-money-ends/ar-AA13HmrR?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=4889977682dc48ec814f11e84cc76c35

"World plunging towards societal collapse as era of cheap money ends"

....regardless of whether "renewables work".

...and certainly, renewables can't be successfully rolled out, given your evil blind ("invisible hand") neoliberal market orthodoxy.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 5^th, 2022 at 12:06pm:

"World plunging towards societal collapse as era of cheap money ends" ....regardless of whether "renewables work".

So when you eventually accept that renewables DON'T work... what will be left? Especially after spending billions on them. ::)

lee wrote on Nov 5^th, 2022 at 2:45pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 5th, 2022 at 12:06pm: "World plunging towards societal collapse as era of cheap money ends" ....regardless of whether "renewables work". So when you eventually accept that renewables DON'T work... what will be left? Especially after spending billions on them. ::)

Slippery vicious 'survival of the fittest' ideologue: renewables will work, when your vicious ideology is overthrown.

Interestingly, this BBC podcast faces the issue of the cost of the transition - and who is going to pay; the idea of an IMF-delivered debt-swap for developing countries is a move in the right direction.

The other problem is dispelling the orthodox idea that rich nations themselves are broke and struggling with inflation - all lies, which will nevertheless play havoc in the upcoming COP27 talks.

The truth will be faced eventually, as climate-related costs keep rising. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3ct33ps

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 5^th, 2022 at 5:00pm:

Slippery vicious 'survival of the fittest' ideologue: renewables will work, when your vicious ideology is overthrown.

That will mean the end of solar and wind as renewables can't do the job of making them. What then?


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 5^th, 2022 at 5:00pm:

The truth will be faced eventually, as climate-related costs keep rising.

Only in inflated dollars. As a comparison to CPI or GDP it isn't.

Social scientist fails again. ;D ;D ;D ;D

lee wrote on Nov 5^th, 2022 at 6:18pm:

That will mean the end of solar and wind as renewables can't do the job of making them. What then?

You keep asserting this, mindlessly.  Enough sunshine falls on the world's sunny deserts to power the entire global economy many times over (backed by nuclear and pumped hydro storage). 


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Only in inflated dollars. As a comparison to CPI or GDP it isn't.

As if your obsolete classical economics driven by greedy "invisible hand" markets has anything useful to say about "inflated dollars". '

Hint: countries can run out of resources, they can't run out of dollars, except in your obsolete monetary orthodoxy. 


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Social scientist fails again. ;D ;D ;D ;D

You mean the vicious, greedy "invisible hand" market fails again.  Climate change will cause the mother of all 'market failures'...

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 6^th, 2022 at 11:21am:

Enough sunshine falls on the world's sunny deserts to power the entire global economy many times over (backed by nuclear and pumped hydro storage).

You missed saying as and when needed. And we haven't seen your figures for this proposition. That makes it meaningless rhetoric. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 6^th, 2022 at 11:21am:

Hint: countries can run out of resources, they can't run out of dollars, except in your obsolete monetary orthodoxy.

But they can't print too much money to pay for their goods? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 6^th, 2022 at 11:21am:

Climate change will cause the mother of all 'market failures'...

Another rhetorical answer not based on the real world. So far when questioned you fall back on "I just want to get rid of pollution". You really are a classical green energy rider with no real science. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

When a good becomes scarcer, the logical response is to reduce its demand and increase its supply.  The “solutions” that are being floated to the recent surge in gas prices would do the exact opposite.
...
To begin with, even assuming the schemes were workable, the assistance they provide would be completely untargeted. Far from rewarding firms that had economised on the use of gas, the largest benefits would flow to the firms that had cut back least; as those firms used the subsidies to displace more efficient rivals, overall productivity levels would fall, and living standards with them.

Nor is that effect likely to be trivial: in his classic study of broadly similar schemes, Yale’s Paul MacAvoy found those misallocations meant that each dollar in mandated sales cost the economy two.

Compounding the damage, artificially low, capped, prices would encourage gas to be used instead of other energy sources, whose prices would remain more volatile. Domestic demand for gas would therefore rise, slashing national income both by forcing gas producers to forgo higher-priced export sales and by promoting a use of resources that took no account of relative costs.

And as firms locked in gas-intensive methods of production, repealing the scheme would become ever harder, perpetuating the damage.

Last but not least, retrospectively imposing the proposed mandates on the gas exporters would deter new investment by directly reducing their profits and increasing sovereign risk.

The proponents of these schemes strenuously deny that investment would be chilled. But as far back as 1980-81, assessments by Treasury, the Industries Assistance Commission and the OECD all concluded that the two-price schemes had (in the words of the OECD) helped precipitate the “sharp decline in exploration activity throughout the 1970s”. To believe reinstating them in new form would not undermine the development of desperately needed supplies is as inconsistent with decades of careful analysis as it is with common sense.

As a result, were the proposals adopted, we would find ourselves in the worst of all possible worlds: greater demand, lower supply and pervasive inefficiency.
Henry Ergas



Naturally, Bowen and Albo, being 60s and 70s style comrades, are going for the worst of all possible solution. Ideology must triumph, comrades.

https://cafehayek.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/miracle_cartoon.jpg

“This famous Sidney Harris cartoon (below) captures what is wrong – what is deeply unscientific – about far-too-much modern economics. The miracle assumed by the unscientific ‘scientific’ modern economist is that government will act (1) apolitically, (2) without any of the human imperfections, myopia, and psychological quirks that (are assumed to) give rise to the market imperfections that allegedly justify government intervention, and (3) with more information and wisdom than is discovered and used in markets.”

https://cafehayek.com/2014/03/then-a-miracle-occurs.html

lee wrote on Nov 6^th, 2022 at 4:52pm:

https://cafehayek.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/miracle_cartoon.jpg “This famous Sidney Harris cartoon (below) captures what is wrong – what is deeply unscientific – about far-too-much modern economics. The miracle assumed by the unscientific ‘scientific’ modern economist is that government will act (1) apolitically, (2) without any of the human imperfections, myopia, and psychological quirks that (are assumed to) give rise to the market imperfections that allegedly justify government intervention, and (3) with more information and wisdom than is discovered and used in markets.” https://cafehayek.com/2014/03/then-a-miracle-occurs.html

Just so.

lee wrote on Nov 6^th, 2022 at 2:47pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 6th, 2022 at 11:21am: Enough sunshine falls on the world's sunny deserts to power the entire global economy many times over (backed by nuclear and pumped hydro storage).  You missed saying as and when needed.

Say 10% constantly from nuclear, to deal with the worst renewables scenario (no sun, wind); 


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And we haven't seen your figures for this proposition. That makes it meaningless rhetoric. ::)

Not rhetoric, accepted fact.


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But they can't print too much money to pay for their goods? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Why would they do that; or rather,  good management will avoid creating more money than can be spent on available resources.


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Another rhetorical answer not based on the real world. So far when questioned you fall back on "I just want to get rid of pollution". You really are a classical green energy rider with no real science. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Addressed above. Of course the world can produce enough PVs to power the global economy.

The real 'problem' of course is the private sector will be bankrupted by $trillions of stranded assets.

'Bout time the private-sector money creators (who have invested in fossils)  felt the pain...

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 10:50am:

Say 10% constantly from nuclear, to deal with the worst renewables scenario (no sun, wind);

No back of the envelope calculations? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 10:50am:

Not rhetoric, accepted fact.

So please tell us to whom you defer for this "accepted fact". ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 10:50am:

Why would they do that; or rather,  good management will avoid creating more money than can be spent on available resources.

But you only included countries that print their own money. The rest just starve? :'(


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 10:50am:

Addressed above. Of course the world can produce enough PVs to power the global economy.

Not with renewable energy. Please find one that does it. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 10:50am:

'Bout time the private-sector money creators (who have invested in fossils)  felt the pain...

But you already said you only want them until renewables magically take over. You can't have it both ways. Supply AND demand innit. ::)

lee wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 1:36pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 7th, 2022 at 10:50am: Say 10% constantly from nuclear, to deal with the worst renewables scenario (no sun, wind);  No back of the envelope calculations? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

nothing wrong with back of the envelop calcs when the land, ocean, sun, wind and storage are available. 


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So please tell us to whom you defer for this "accepted fact". ::)

the world's scientists.


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But you only included countries that print their own money. The rest just starve? :'

addressed in the other thread: international co-operation managed by the BIS and the IMF.


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Not with renewable energy. Please find one that does it. ::)

Er.. by using existing fossil energy,  and progressively phasing fossils out as the newly built renewables replace fossils. .


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But you already said you only want them until renewables magically take over. You can't have it both ways. Supply AND demand innit. ::)

addressed above; fossils made redundant as renewables increasingly take up energy production.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 4:14pm:

nothing wrong with back of the envelop calcs when the land, ocean, sun, wind and storage are available.

Then why can't you provide them? ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 4:14pm:

the world's scientists.

Which ones  be specific? All of the scientists? Some of the scientists?  ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 4:14pm:

addressed in the other thread: international co-operation managed by the BIS and the IMF.

BIS and the IMF will not fund free money. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 4:14pm:

Er.. by using existing fossil energy,  and progressively phasing fossils out as the newly built renewables replace fossils. .

And then when the current generation  need replacingf having already closed fossil fuel production? ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 4:14pm:

addressed above; fossils made redundant as renewables increasingly take up energy production.

Nope. You leave a big hole in your argument when fossil fuels have been shut down and renewables need replacing.  Just dial up unobtainium. ::)

Your lack of science reaches new lows. ::)

lee wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 4:34pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 7th, 2022 at 4:14pm: nothing wrong with back of the envelop calcs when the land, ocean, sun, wind and storage are available. Then why can't you provide them? ::)

The ANU has already done them, google it (I supplied the link re global  capacity to store renewables  via pumped hydro... ages ago)


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Which ones  be specific? All of the scientists? Some of the scientists?  ::)

ANU engineers actually, who accept the science driving the COP meetings.   


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BIS and the IMF will not fund free money. ::)

Not at the moment, but when the fate of the planet comes into view, they will suddenly discover they can create free money...


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And then when the current generation  need replacingf having already closed fossil fuel production? ::)

replacement will be progressive, as with exhausted fossil deposits. (ie a global economy of a million GWs  can cope with 1 GW replacement, even if possibly requiring nuclear back-up (remains to be seen).   



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Nope. You leave a big hole in your argument when fossil fuels have been shut down and renewables need replacing.  Just dial up unobtainium. ::)

Addressed and refuted above.


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Your lack of science reaches new lows. ::)

It's simple engineering...

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 5:12pm:

The ANU has already done them, google it (I supplied the link re global  capacity to store renewables  via pumped hydro... ages ago)

Ah yes. The one where the top dam when emptied will over flow the bottom dam. And they are supposed to be engineers? ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 5:12pm:

ANU engineers actually, who accept the science driving the COP meetings.

All of them or merely some of them? ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 5:12pm:

Not at the moment, but when the fate of the planet comes into view, they will suddenly discover they can create free money...

But its already supposed to be Thermageddon.  How much more time? ::)
67805120]replacement will be progressive, as with exhausted fossil deposits. (ie a global economy of a million GWs  can cope with 1 GW replacement, even if possibly requiring nuclear back-up (remains to be seen).   [/quote]

Ah only with exhausted fossil fuels. So never.-


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 4:14pm:

Er.. by using existing fossil energy,  and progressively phasing fossils out as the newly built renewables replace fossils.

Poor petal. Can't even point to a timeline. Sometime. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 5:12pm:

Addressed and refuted above.

You haven't refuted anything. Renewables can't make more renewables. Otherwise countries would already be doing it. ::) I mean they are so cheap aren't they?


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 5:12pm:

It's simple engineering...

And since you don't do science you wouldn't know anything about engineering. ::)

lee wrote on Nov 7^th, 2022 at 6:15pm:

Ah only with exhausted fossil fuels. So never.-

 

Sheer inability to follow an argument: the point was world energy supplies are not compromised when a particular fossil deposit is exhausted .

Same applies to a renewable-based world.


Quote:

Poor petal. Can't even point to a timeline. Sometime. ::)

 

ASAP is a timeline...hindered by the greedy private fossil price-gougers.

As Forrest said: only one form of energy resource gets more expensive the more you exploit it.....



Quote:

You haven't refuted anything. Renewables can't make more renewables. Otherwise countries would already be doing it. ::) I mean they are so cheap aren't they?

News flash: fossils can't make fossils (which are a diminishing resource as Forrest noted, above); whereas renewables are infinite, limited only by the infrastructure needed to capture them. 



Quote:

And since you don't do science you wouldn't know anything about engineering. ::)

Non sequitur.... 

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 11:43am:

Same applies to a renewable-based world.

Except they haven't been able to make them with renewables. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 11:43am:

ASAP is a timeline...hindered by the greedy private fossil price-gougers.

And you haven't shown any type of critical thinking to this "timeline" of yours. ::)
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 11:43am:

As Forrest said: only one form of energy resource gets more expensive the more you exploit it.....

See above. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 11:43am:

News flash: fossils can't make fossils (which are a diminishing resource as Forrest noted, above); whereas renewables are infinite, limited only by the infrastructure needed to capture them.

And the infrastructure need a reliable energy supply. Renewables are not it. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 11:43am:

Non sequitur....

So a non sequitur about your inability to mount a cogent argument on engineering to overcome renewables shortfalls. ::)

lee wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 1:35pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8th, 2022 at 11:43am: Same applies to a renewable-based world. Except they haven't been able to make them with renewables. ::)

owing to the filth in your reptilian brain, defending the greedy private sector.


Quote:

And you haven't shown any type of critical thinking to this "timeline" of yours. ::)

Critical thinking from your reptilian-brain-driven cortex is an oxymoron. ASAP is a timeline.  .....


Quote:

And the infrastructure need a reliable energy supply. Renewables are not it. ::)

Of course they are, even if backed by nuclear supplying 10% permanently. Maximizing sun and wind is partly an empirical exercise, as we approach 100% renewables.


Quote:

So a non sequitur about your inability to mount a cogent argument on engineering to overcome renewables shortfalls. ::)

No; the  non-sequiturs arising from your reptilian-brain- crippled cortex.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 2:32pm:

owing to the filth in your reptilian brain, defending the greedy private sector.

Oh dear you ;lost the argument again. ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 2:32pm:

Critical thinking from your reptilian-brain-driven cortex is an oxymoron. ASAP is a timeline.  .....

More drivel from a lost argument.


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 2:32pm:

Of course they are, even if backed by nuclear supplying 10% permanently. Maximizing sun and wind is partly an empirical exercise, as we approach 100% renewables.

An empirical exercise that has not been proven.

Empirical - Relying on or derived from observation or experiment.  ::)

Future fact, If they come to fruition, are not empirical. ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 2:32pm:

o; the  non-sequiturs arising from your reptilian-brain- crippled cortex.

Still more drivel. ;D ;D ;D ;D

lee wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 3:42pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8th, 2022 at 2:32pm: owing to the filth in your reptilian brain, defending the greedy private sector. Oh dear you ;lost the argument again. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Wrong of course: my statement is an explanation of your blind ideology and hence your incapacity for rational analysis, which is different to an irrelevant ad hominin.


Quote:

More drivel from a lost argument.

Disproved above.


Quote:

An empirical exercise that has not been proven.

An empirical exercise by definition is a process of discovery; in this case, how much base load does the world need as we approach 100% renewables.


Quote:

Empirical - Relying on or derived from observation or experiment.  ::)

Exactly.


Quote:

Future fact, If they come to fruition, are not empirical. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Confused of course; no doubt variation in global energy consumption and production will benefit from an empirical - observational - approach, as we achieve the last few percent of the renewable economy. 


Quote:

Still more drivel. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Addressed above. Of course it will be painful for you to accept why you are incapacitated...no insight into brain physiology and the resulting chaos in human affairs, for which you claim you are in no way responsible. 

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 6:01pm:

Wrong of course: my statement is an explanation of your blind ideology and hence your incapacity for rational analysis, which is different to an irrelevant ad hominin.

No petal. no ad hominem. You haven't even tried to explain how the top dam of Snowy2.0 will generate all the energy cliamed. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 6:01pm:

Disproved above.

Once again you have disproved nothing. To disprove something you must first prove something different. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 6:01pm:

An empirical exercise by definition is a process of discovery; in this case, how much base load does the world need as we approach 100% renewables.

The discovery is by observation or experiment. Neither of which have been shown. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 6:01pm:

Exactly.

Yes. So tell me about this empirical "evidence" that you have. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 6:01pm:

Confused of course; no doubt variation in global energy consumption and production will benefit from an empirical - observational - approach, as we achieve the last few percent of the renewable economy.

So we haven't had this observational approach yet. Thanks for that. Will - future perfect., hence no observational data.

lee wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 6:14pm:

No petal. no ad hominem. You haven't even tried to explain how the top dam of Snowy2.0 will generate all the energy cliamed. ::)

More drivel, you said; as far as pumped-hydro storage is concerned, it's  a  principle accepted by all. Google it, to begin to educate yourself. 


Quote:

Once again you have disproved nothing. To disprove something you must first prove something different. ::)

er...pumped hydro storage, powered using excess renewables, (which are always available somewhere), maybe 10 percent nuclear backing a global system is required, we won't know till we have just about entirely exited fossils. and the global renewables architecture is fully realised. 


Quote:

The discovery is by observation or experiment. Neither of which have been shown. ::)

Correct (...there's that clock again...).

The observations and consequent adjustments can only be made when we near 100% global renewables.


Quote:

Yes. So tell me about this empirical "evidence" that you have. ::)

Addressed above; see where your incapacity for forward thinking has led you....


Quote:

So we haven't had this observational approach yet. Thanks for that. Will - future perfect., hence no observational data.

Addressed above; your GIGO errors are egregious indeed.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 6:37pm:

More drivel, you said; as far as pumped-hydro storage is concerned, it's  a  principle accepted by all. Google it, to begin to educate yourself.

You forgot the word "theoretically". ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 6:37pm:

er...pumped hydro storage, powered using excess renewables, (which are always available somewhere), maybe 10 percent nuclear backing a global system is required, we won't know till we have just about entirely exited fossils. and the global renewables architecture is fully realised.

See now you post fallacies. The somewhere may not be anywhere it is of use. Fail. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 6:37pm:

Correct (...there's that clock again...).

So you accept that there is no observation and it hasn't been shown to work at scale, even theoretically. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 6:37pm:

The observations and consequent adjustments can only be made when we near 100% global renewables.

There you go again pinning your hopes on unproven technologies. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 6:37pm:

Addressed above; see where your incapacity for forward thinking has led you....

Nope. NO observation. NO experiment at scale. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 6:37pm:

Addressed above; your GIGO errors are egregious indeed.

No you haven't. Will happen is hope has happened is observation. ::)

You still haven't posted any evidence of anything. Which climate scientists say 3ºC. Which ones say otherwise. You are the one calling it a consensus. ::)

What do the IPCC actually say?

Floods - In summary there is low confidence in the human influence on the changes in high river flows on the global scale. Confidence is in general low in attributing changes in the probability or magnitude of flood events to human influence because of a limited number of studies and differences in the results of these studies, and large modelling uncertainties.

IPCC  AR6 WG1 11.5.4


Droughts - There is medium confidence in the ability of ESMs to simulate trends and anomalies in precipitation deficits and AED, and also medium confidence in the ability of ESMs and hydrological models to simulate trends and anomalies in soil moisture and streamflow deficits, on global and regional scales

IPCC AR6 WG1 11.6.3.6

The high-end scenarios RCP8.5 or SSP5-8.5 have recently been argued
to be implausible to unfold (e.g., Hausfather and Peters, 2020; see
Chapter 3 of the AR6 WGIII).

WG1 4.2.2

Most multi-model studies assuming rapid economic growth/business-as-usual scenarios (A2,A1B, RCP8.5) show an increase in future woody biomass and areas of woody cover towards the end of the 21st century in the temperate regions (Boit et al., 2016; Nabuurs et al., 2017) and in tropical forests in East Africa (Ross et al., 2021) but decrease in the remaining tropical regions (Anadón et al., 2014; Boit et al., 2016; Lyra et al., 2017; Nabuurs et al., 2017; Maia et al., 2020).

IPCC AR6 WG11 2.5.2.6

lee wrote on Nov 8^th, 2022 at 8:12pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 8th, 2022 at 6:37pm: More drivel, you said; as far as pumped-hydro storage is concerned, it's  a  principle accepted by all. Google it, to begin to educate yourself. You forgot the word "theoretically". ::)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pumped-storage_hydroelectric_power_stations



Quote:

See now you post fallacies. The somewhere may not be anywhere it is of use. Fail. ::)

Transmission technology allows connection over vast distances.


Quote:

So you accept that there is no observation and it hasn't been shown to work at scale, even theoretically. ::)

I accept you don't have two brain cells to rub together because you can't understand the concept of empiricism as we reach  a condition that is yet to be achieved (ie near 100% renewables) 


Quote:

There you go again pinning your hopes on unproven technologies. ::)

You error is obvious.

Solar, wind and pumped hydro storage are all available and proven technologies; the issue is security - achievable by empirical measurement -  as we near 100% renewables, still decades away.   


Quote:

Nope. NO observation. NO experiment at scale. ::)

 

see... still more GIGO from you as usual: you can't do a global experiment before the globe is running on near 100% renewables.


Quote:

You still haven't posted any evidence of anything. Which climate scientists say 3ºC. Which ones say otherwise. You are the one calling it a consensus. ::)

COP27 accept it as consensus.


Quote:

What do the IPCC actually say? Floods - In summary there is low confidence in the human influence on the changes in high river flows on the global scale. Confidence is in general low in attributing changes in the probability or magnitude of flood events to human influence because of a limited number of studies and differences in the results of these studies, and large modelling uncertainties. IPCC  AR6 WG1 11.5.4 Droughts - There is medium confidence in the ability of ESMs to simulate trends and anomalies in precipitation deficits and AED, and also medium confidence in the ability of ESMs and hydrological models to simulate trends and anomalies in soil moisture and streamflow deficits, on global and regional scales IPCC AR6 WG1 11.6.3.6 The high-end scenarios RCP8.5 or SSP5-8.5 have recently been argued to be implausible to unfold (e.g., Hausfather and Peters, 2020; see Chapter 3 of the AR6 WGIII). WG1 4.2.2 Most multi-model studies assuming rapid economic growth/business-as-usual scenarios (A2,A1B, RCP8.5) show an increase in future woody biomass and areas of woody cover towards the end of the 21st century in the temperate regions (Boit et al., 2016; Nabuurs et al., 2017) and in tropical forests in East Africa (Ross et al., 2021) but decrease in the remaining tropical regions (Anadón et al., 2014; Boit et al., 2016; Lyra et al., 2017; Nabuurs et al., 2017; Maia et al., 2020). IPCC AR6 WG11 2.5.2.6

The leaders at COP27 have clearly  stated the consensus,  ie, a disastrous 3 degrees by century's end, unless we close the fossil industry....which needs to be closed anyway, given its poisonous, price gouging nature.   

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 12:23pm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pumped-storage_hydroelectric_power_station...

Tumut 3 does not have anything to do with solar and wind. Snowy2.0 is not completed and has nothing to do with solar and wind currently., ::)

.
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 12:23pm:

Transmission technology allows connection over vast distances.

And also has the attendant losses over vast distances. Even DC has large losses over large distances. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 12:23pm:

I accept you don't have two brain cells to rub together because you can't understand the concept of empiricism as we reach  a condition that is yet to be achieved (ie near 100% renewables)

That is not debate. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 12:23pm:

Solar, wind and pumped hydro storage are all available and proven technologies; the issue is security - achievable by empirical measurement -  as we near 100% renewables, still decades away.

Hydro works we know. Pumped hydro will work in isolation when the draw is less than the output and some is used to recharge the top dam. Having the larger dam above a smaller one is a no-no, as you can't let the top dam empty. It would flood the bottom dam.  .
.
Solar and wind have never achieved anything like stable output anywhere where the draw is large. Even king Island still has to run diesel generators and they have both solar and wind. And they are close to the roaring forties. And we have already talked about Germany and its theoretical self sufficiency in solar and wind combined. But perhaps you have examples? ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 12:23pm:

See... still more GIGO from you as usual: you can't do a global experiment before the globe is running on near 100% renewables.

You can't even give one country that has achieved it.  ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 12:23pm:

COP27 accept it as consensus.

That is not proof. It is just politicians making hay in the sunshine. Climate Scientists. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 12:23pm:

The leaders at COP27 have clearly  stated the consensus,  ie, a disastrous 3 degrees by century's end, unless we close the fossil industry....which needs to be closed anyway, given its poisonous, price gouging nature.

More about politicians. Politicians mostly, like you, don't do science or engineering. ::)

http://www.geoffstuff.com/uahnov.jpg

Slight cooling. Oh noes.

lee wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 12:40pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9th, 2022 at 12:23pm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pumped-storage_hydroelectric_power_station... Tumut 3 does not have anything to do with solar and wind. Snowy2.0 is not completed and has nothing to do with solar and wind currently., ::)

You aren't thinking clearly, as you are losing the debate.

You said pumped hydro is theory,  I linked the list of operating pumped-hydro storage facilities in operation.


Quote:

And also has the attendant losses over vast distances. Even DC has large losses over large distances. ::)

 

Losses don't matter when the 'fuel' (sun and wind - somewhere on the planet) is infinite.


Quote:

That is not debate. ::)

er...all words after "because'... ARE debate (admittedly my characterization of your mental incapacity to understand the concept or forward empiricism, as 'lack of two brain cells' was gratuitous insult, nevertheless the explanation for the insult was given).


Quote:

Hydro works we know. Pumped hydro will work in isolation when the draw is less than the output and some is used to recharge the top dam. Having the larger dam above a smaller one is a no-no, as you can't let the top dam empty. It would flood the bottom dam.

So you are describing an engineering problem which must be solved, which the pumped-hydro storage facilities I linked have solved. 


Quote:

Solar and wind have never achieved anything like stable output anywhere where the draw is large. Even king Island still has to run diesel generators and they have both solar and wind. And they are close to the roaring forties. And we have already talked about Germany and its theoretical self sufficiency in solar and wind combined. But perhaps you have examples? ::)

I have already conceded a certain level of nuclear baseload may need to be part of a near 100% renewables world.


Quote:

You can't even give one country that has achieved it.  ::)

Thats what the COPs are trying to achieve; obviously Oz is one of many countries which could easily achieve near 100% renewables sufficiency. 


Quote:

That is not proof. It is just politicians making hay in the sunshine. Climate Scientists. ::)

But in any case, we end up with clean, cheap, limitless  energy.


Quote:

More about politicians. Politicians mostly, like you, don't do science or engineering. ::)

Addressed above. Transition to renewables is a  'no lose' situation (provided the greedy private sector is ousted from energy production)  - regardless of AGW-CO2 science.

whiteknight wrote on Oct 27^th, 2022 at 4:15pm:

FINALLY, A FEDERAL BUDGET THAT DELIVERS FOR CLEAN ENERGY   :) 25 OCTOBER, 2022 Clean Energy Council The Albanese Government's Budget expenditure to accelerate clean energy will be critical to easing cost-of-living pressures. With close to $25 billion committed to clean energy spending, this is a budget of a Federal Government that clearly understands the importance of the clean energy transition. This funding supports Australia's rapid transition to renewable energy, ensuring more Australians can access clean, low-cost electricity.   :) "This is the medium-to-long-term Federal Government expenditure that our industry has long called for," said Clean Energy Council Chief Executive, Kane Thornton. "Tonight's announcements reveal a breadth and depth of commitment not seen before when it comes to successfully managing a fast and fair transition to renewable energy. "Funding, like that announced last week under the Rewiring the Nation program to proceed with Marinus Link and for Clean Energy Finance Corporation funding for the Victoria-NSW KerangLink interconnector, enabling more clean, low-cost renewable energy and storage to power Australian homes and business is what will ultimately ease cost-of-living pressures. "We're being warned that there is more pain on the way in the short-term due to our reliance on an energy system built around the failing dirty technologies of the past – unreliable coal and expensive gas. Tonight's Federal Budget gets Australia on the right track, making the most of the renewable energy boom and setting our nation up for clean energy superpower status. "It's a Budget that has prioritised funding in the renewable energy labour market that supports a growing and diverse regional workforce. Clean, low-cost energy can provide enormous opportunities for workers, communities and our environment. After a decade in the energy wilderness, tonight's Federal Budget accelerates the transition to clean, affordable and reliable renewable energy while investing heavily in the jobs and skills needed to realise that transition." ENDS

Skål!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhAlzfAXgAgv2Mr?.png

Frank wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 3:57pm:

whiteknight wrote on Oct 27th, 2022 at 4:15pm: FINALLY, A FEDERAL BUDGET THAT DELIVERS FOR CLEAN ENERGY   :) 25 OCTOBER, 2022 Clean Energy Council The Albanese Government's Budget expenditure to accelerate clean energy will be critical to easing cost-of-living pressures. With close to $25 billion committed to clean energy spending, this is a budget of a Federal Government that clearly understands the importance of the clean energy transition. This funding supports Australia's rapid transition to renewable energy, ensuring more Australians can access clean, low-cost electricity.   :) "This is the medium-to-long-term Federal Government expenditure that our industry has long called for," said Clean Energy Council Chief Executive, Kane Thornton. "Tonight's announcements reveal a breadth and depth of commitment not seen before when it comes to successfully managing a fast and fair transition to renewable energy. "Funding, like that announced last week under the Rewiring the Nation program to proceed with Marinus Link and for Clean Energy Finance Corporation funding for the Victoria-NSW KerangLink interconnector, enabling more clean, low-cost renewable energy and storage to power Australian homes and business is what will ultimately ease cost-of-living pressures. "We're being warned that there is more pain on the way in the short-term due to our reliance on an energy system built around the failing dirty technologies of the past – unreliable coal and expensive gas. Tonight's Federal Budget gets Australia on the right track, making the most of the renewable energy boom and setting our nation up for clean energy superpower status. "It's a Budget that has prioritised funding in the renewable energy labour market that supports a growing and diverse regional workforce. Clean, low-cost energy can provide enormous opportunities for workers, communities and our environment. After a decade in the energy wilderness, tonight's Federal Budget accelerates the transition to clean, affordable and reliable renewable energy while investing heavily in the jobs and skills needed to realise that transition." ENDS Skål! https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhAlzfAXgAgv2Mr?.png

A remarkable young person who has achieved global reach, very relevant in capitalism's end times, as entrenched poverty and spiralling inequality lead inexorably to global economic and ecological collapse. 

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 4:51pm:

A remarkable young person who has achieved global reach, very relevant in capitalism's end times, as entrenched poverty and spiralling inequality lead inexorably to global economic and ecological collapse.

Who says that COP27 is a scam, a platform for greenwashing, lying and cheating.

It seems she is not a fan, unlike you. ::)

lee wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 12:40pm:

Solar and wind have never achieved anything like stable output anywhere where the draw is large. Even king Island still has to run diesel generators and they have both solar and wind. And they are close to the roaring forties. And we have already talked about Germany and its theoretical self sufficiency in solar and wind combined. But perhaps you have examples?

Mapped: Solar and Wind Power by Country as of 8 May 2022.

You're seeing [below] in real time the dashboard for our King Island
renewable energy solution. It is based on contributions from wind and solar
and the enabling technologies that improve system security and reliability,
such as battery, dynamic resister, flywheel and demand side management.

The King Island Renewable Energy Integration Project (KIREIP).

Interesting stuff.  These green generation data also show how successfully
wind and solar powered electricity generation have advanced in a relatively
short developmental period.

At the moment, development of the Star of The South wind farm off the Ninety
Mile Beach is progressing well, and has the imprimatur of both the State and
Federal governments.  It will generate 2.2GW which equals 18% of Victoria's
power needs.      This output is nearly identical to the capacity of the existing
Loy Yang A facility which is due to close in 20135.

lee wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 8:18pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9th, 2022 at 4:51pm: A remarkable young person who has achieved global reach, very relevant in capitalism's end times, as entrenched poverty and spiralling inequality lead inexorably to global economic and ecological collapse.  Who says that COP27 is a scam, a platform for greenwashing, lying and cheating. It seems she is not a fan, unlike you. ::)

No; I agree with Greta, as you should know after our long debate re the politics and economics of renewables.

COP27 will mostly be a talkfest, because - fundamentally - citizens don't want to pay for the transition out of their own hip-pockets; and politicians are in the pockets of fossil price-gougers who don't want the transition to happen at all.

Nevertheless, the transition is awakening:

https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/undersea-cable-to-funnel-3-gigawatts-of-solar-energy-from-egypt-to-europe-via-greece/

Undersea Cable to Funnel 3 Gigawatts of Solar Energy From Egypt to Power Millions of European Households

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 4:51pm:

Frank wrote on Nov 9th, 2022 at 3:57pm: whiteknight wrote on Oct 27th, 2022 at 4:15pm: FINALLY, A FEDERAL BUDGET THAT DELIVERS FOR CLEAN ENERGY   :) 25 OCTOBER, 2022 Clean Energy Council The Albanese Government's Budget expenditure to accelerate clean energy will be critical to easing cost-of-living pressures. With close to $25 billion committed to clean energy spending, this is a budget of a Federal Government that clearly understands the importance of the clean energy transition. This funding supports Australia's rapid transition to renewable energy, ensuring more Australians can access clean, low-cost electricity.   :) "This is the medium-to-long-term Federal Government expenditure that our industry has long called for," said Clean Energy Council Chief Executive, Kane Thornton. "Tonight's announcements reveal a breadth and depth of commitment not seen before when it comes to successfully managing a fast and fair transition to renewable energy. "Funding, like that announced last week under the Rewiring the Nation program to proceed with Marinus Link and for Clean Energy Finance Corporation funding for the Victoria-NSW KerangLink interconnector, enabling more clean, low-cost renewable energy and storage to power Australian homes and business is what will ultimately ease cost-of-living pressures. "We're being warned that there is more pain on the way in the short-term due to our reliance on an energy system built around the failing dirty technologies of the past – unreliable coal and expensive gas. Tonight's Federal Budget gets Australia on the right track, making the most of the renewable energy boom and setting our nation up for clean energy superpower status. "It's a Budget that has prioritised funding in the renewable energy labour market that supports a growing and diverse regional workforce. Clean, low-cost energy can provide enormous opportunities for workers, communities and our environment. After a decade in the energy wilderness, tonight's Federal Budget accelerates the transition to clean, affordable and reliable renewable energy while investing heavily in the jobs and skills needed to realise that transition." ENDS Skål! https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhAlzfAXgAgv2Mr?.png A remarkable young person who has achieved global reach, very relevant in capitalism's end times, as entrenched poverty and spiralling inequality lead inexorably to global economic and ecological collapse.

:D :D :D

And the bad news?

Frank wrote on Nov 10^th, 2022 at 10:10am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 9th, 2022 at 4:51pm: Frank wrote on Nov 9th, 2022 at 3:57pm: whiteknight wrote on Oct 27th, 2022 at 4:15pm: FINALLY, A FEDERAL BUDGET THAT DELIVERS FOR CLEAN ENERGY   :) 25 OCTOBER, 2022 Clean Energy Council The Albanese Government's Budget expenditure to accelerate clean energy will be critical to easing cost-of-living pressures. With close to $25 billion committed to clean energy spending, this is a budget of a Federal Government that clearly understands the importance of the clean energy transition. This funding supports Australia's rapid transition to renewable energy, ensuring more Australians can access clean, low-cost electricity.   :) "This is the medium-to-long-term Federal Government expenditure that our industry has long called for," said Clean Energy Council Chief Executive, Kane Thornton. "Tonight's announcements reveal a breadth and depth of commitment not seen before when it comes to successfully managing a fast and fair transition to renewable energy. "Funding, like that announced last week under the Rewiring the Nation program to proceed with Marinus Link and for Clean Energy Finance Corporation funding for the Victoria-NSW KerangLink interconnector, enabling more clean, low-cost renewable energy and storage to power Australian homes and business is what will ultimately ease cost-of-living pressures. "We're being warned that there is more pain on the way in the short-term due to our reliance on an energy system built around the failing dirty technologies of the past – unreliable coal and expensive gas. Tonight's Federal Budget gets Australia on the right track, making the most of the renewable energy boom and setting our nation up for clean energy superpower status. "It's a Budget that has prioritised funding in the renewable energy labour market that supports a growing and diverse regional workforce. Clean, low-cost energy can provide enormous opportunities for workers, communities and our environment. After a decade in the energy wilderness, tonight's Federal Budget accelerates the transition to clean, affordable and reliable renewable energy while investing heavily in the jobs and skills needed to realise that transition." ENDS Skål! https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhAlzfAXgAgv2Mr?.png A remarkable young person who has achieved global reach, very relevant in capitalism's end times, as entrenched poverty and spiralling inequality lead inexorably to global economic and ecological collapse.  :D :D :D And the bad news?

That is the bad news; ie, business as usual is not sustainable.

AusGeoff wrote on Nov 9^th, 2022 at 9:06pm:

It will generate 2.2GW which equals 18% of Victoria's power needs.

It MAY generate 2.2 GW. Is that peak, average or what? ::)

Edit: Looking at the project up to 200 12-18MW wind turbines. 3.6GW maximum rated. for Up to 2.2Gw or a 61% capacity rating. ::)

Current generation 68% diesel, 2% solar, 30% wind

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 10^th, 2022 at 9:30am:

Nevertheless, the transition is awakening: https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/undersea-cable-to-funnel-3-gigawatts-of-solar-energy-from-egypt-to-europe-via-greece/ Undersea Cable to Funnel 3 Gigawatts of Solar Energy From Egypt to Power Millions of European Households

To Funnel? It hasn't happened. So NO OBSERVATIONAL data. ::)

lee wrote on Nov 10^th, 2022 at 12:36pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 10th, 2022 at 9:30am: Nevertheless, the transition is awakening: https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/undersea-cable-to-funnel-3-gigawatts-of-solar-energy-from-egypt-to-europe-via-greece/ Undersea Cable to Funnel 3 Gigawatts of Solar Energy From Egypt to Power Millions of European Households To Funnel? It hasn't happened. So NO OBSERVATIONAL data. ::)

From another news outlet:


Quote:

https://www.africanews.com/2022/09/15/undersea-power-cable-to-connect-egypt-to-europe-via-greece//

Undersea power cable to connect Egypt to Europe via Greece

See how 'reading the law to the letter' conservatives make fools of themselves...

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 10^th, 2022 at 2:06pm:

Undersea power cable to connect Egypt to Europe via Greece

Still no OBSERVATIONAL data. ::)

lee wrote on Nov 10^th, 2022 at 2:38pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 10th, 2022 at 2:06pm: Undersea power cable to connect Egypt to Europe via Greece Still no OBSERVATIONAL data. ::)

Er ...observational data (losses, efficiency, emissions reduced, savings in electricity bills, etc) will be made AFTER the project is complete.

And then such projects will multiply like wild-fire (excuse the metaphor).....

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 10^th, 2022 at 3:21pm:

Er ...observational data (losses, efficiency, emissions reduced, savings in electricity bills, etc) will be made AFTER the project is complete.

Yeah. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 10^th, 2022 at 3:21pm:

And then such projects will multiply like wild-fire (excuse the metaphor).....

Only IF it is a success. ::)

lee wrote on Nov 10^th, 2022 at 4:19pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 10th, 2022 at 3:21pm: Er ...observational data (losses, efficiency, emissions reduced, savings in electricity bills, etc) will be made AFTER the project is complete. Yeah. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 10th, 2022 at 3:21pm: And then such projects will multiply like wild-fire (excuse the metaphor)..... Only IF it is a success. ::)

Er...solar panels produce electricity and cables transmit it...have patience, doubting thomas....

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 10^th, 2022 at 4:30pm:

Er...solar panels produce electricity and cables transmit it..

Both have losses. And you never explained how the desert solar panels got cleaned. Apart from putting them up in the air. ;D ;D ;D ;D

"According to NOAA’s Hurricane Research Division, every three to five days from late spring through early fall, a mass of dusty air known as the Saharan Air Layer (SAL) forms over the Sahara Desert and moves westward across the tropical North Atlantic. The SAL, which extends about 5,000 to 20,000 feet into the atmosphere, can be transported several thousand miles, reaching as far as the Caribbean, Florida, and the U.S. Gulf Coast when winds are particularly strong."

https://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/news/noaa-satellite-tracking-dust-and-sand-being-blown-sahara-desert
::)

lee wrote on Nov 10^th, 2022 at 4:58pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 10th, 2022 at 4:30pm: Er...solar panels produce electricity and cables transmit it.. Both have losses. And you never explained how the desert solar panels got cleaned. Apart from putting them up in the air. ;D ;D ;D ;D "According to NOAA’s Hurricane Research Division, every three to five days from late spring through early fall, a mass of dusty air known as the Saharan Air Layer (SAL) forms over the Sahara Desert and moves westward across the tropical North Atlantic. The SAL, which extends about 5,000 to 20,000 feet into the atmosphere, can be transported several thousand miles, reaching as far as the Caribbean, Florida, and the U.S. Gulf Coast when winds are particularly strong." https://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/news/noaa-satellite-tracking-dust-and-sand-being-blown-sahara-desert ::)

So we better provide wind breaks - an engineering problem to be solved. And revegetation where possible via desalination; nuclear would come in handy for that.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 10^th, 2022 at 5:07pm:

So we better provide wind breaks - an engineering problem to be solved.

You are too funny. Sands that can carry thousands of miles and a windbreak will suffice? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Not every problem has an engineering solution.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/more-than-50-poor-countries-in-danger-of-bankruptcy-amid-economic-climate/ar-AA13Ybs3?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=75cce6025ccc4c3f84e5d1eadf8dce93

More than 50 poor countries in danger of bankruptcy ’ amid economic climate crises.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 11^th, 2022 at 2:31pm:

More than 50 poor countries in danger of bankruptcy ’ amid economic climate crises.

And yet you can't point to one climate crises. ::)

lee wrote on Nov 11^th, 2022 at 3:07pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 11th, 2022 at 2:31pm: More than 50 poor countries in danger of bankruptcy ’ amid economic climate crises. And yet you can't point to one climate crises. ::)

Global cooling, global warming, climate change - and now 'climate crisis'.  The continuing, neverending crisis. Whatever happens - climate crisis covers all and every event. 

But fear not, the chappies from government and government-funded experts are here to help...  phew!!!

https://spectatorau.imgix.net/content/uploads/2022/11/cover-12-nov_post.jpg

‘World leaders and delegates jetting into Egypt for the Cop 27 climate conference will be able to dine out on £90 mushroom sauce covered beef medallions – and sip on fancy bottomless cocktails – while facing calls to cut down on meat consumption to save the planet. Those with a taste for the luxurious can snap up an Angus beef medallion with sautéed potatoes… after scoffing back a £43 seafood platter for starter.’

No wonder all the greatest and most powerful leaders of the climate cult are descending from far-flung cities, flying in by Lear Jet or luxury gas-guzzling yacht to lecture the rest of the world on how we should eat bugs and insects in order to reduce our emissions. Indeed, our Climate Change Minister has bravely gone to Egypt this week in search of riches beyond his wildest dreams. Mr Bowen, now known as the Nefertiti of Net Zero, the Ramses of Renewables, or the King Tut-tut of the nanny state, has returned Mummy-like from his dead career as a Rudd minister to plunder the hidden treasures of endless government renewables subsidies in order to save the planet. The poor old humble Aussie taxpayer will be defiled and desecrated and dragged into an afterlife of perpetual impoverishment.

Already the Australian delegation has insisted that the controversial issue of ‘loss and damage’ be added at the last minute to the agenda of the Sharm el-Sheikh conference as a gesture of solidarity for Pacific countries. Which translated means: Aussie taxpayers are going to hand over a king’s ransom to any lucky Pacific leader who sticks his hand out because apparently we ghastly Australians are to blame for their islands sinking under the waves even though, er, plenty of them are actually increasing in size as even the ABC admits.
...

The eco-warriors are demanding that the United Kingdom pays up to £1 trillion in damages to the rest of the world for her role in ‘creating climate change’. You know, by inventing all the modern equipment, transportation, drugs, manufacturing, goods and products that have created the modern prosperity, good health and civilisation that we all enjoy.

That is Great Britain’s curse – to have been at the forefront of industrialisation, technological progress, innovation, and mainly peaceful colonisation that shared the just laws and moral values of the Enlightenment around the world in an era, today, where the past is denigrated and despised in favour of pagan earth-worship, superstition and cultural and racial guilt-trips. Indeed, British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak is already proposing ‘climate reparations’ to poorer countries like Pakistan.

The curse of Australia is to have fellow-traveller and climate carpet-bagger Chris ‘Blackouts’ Bowen as our Climate Change Minister at a time when we desperately need to be increasing our energy supplies and fossil fuel and uranium resources but instead are concentrating on madcap schemes like pushing water uphill and green hydrogen hubs.
https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/11/the-dummy/

Frank wrote on Nov 11^th, 2022 at 3:48pm:

lee wrote on Nov 11th, 2022 at 3:07pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 11th, 2022 at 2:31pm: More than 50 poor countries in danger of bankruptcy ’ amid economic climate crises. And yet you can't point to one climate crises. ::) Global cooling, global warming, climate change - and now 'climate crisis'.  The continuing, neverending crisis. Whatever happens - climate crisis covers all and every event.  But fear not, the chappies from government and government-funded experts are here to help...  phew!!!

Well.... people are demanding govt.-based insurance, as the private sector can't pay up for the increasing number of weather (aka climate) catastrophes.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 11^th, 2022 at 8:29pm:

Well.... people are demanding govt.-based insurance, as the private sector can't pay up for the increasing number of weather (aka climate) catastrophes.

So which insurance companies have gone broke in Australia, in the last 5 years? ::)

This week I was chatting to one business owner and, like most in the neighbourhood, his is a family affair. They pay just shy of $50k annually in power bills. They’ve been told to expect that to double next year. Yep. From $50k to $100k in a year.

This is a scandal. There’s no other word for it. And the awful reality is, small businesses in neighbourhoods like mine, all across Australia, will be hit with this body blow. It will land on families that can absorb it, albeit resentfully, and those for whom it means they won’t eat some nights. Homes, families, neighbours and businesses like yours and mine.

Australia is hostage to this energy crisis by its own hand, and the drama is playing out in a crowded echo chamber, where fear-driven absolutism reigns. Where middle ground is not allowed in discussion, let alone policy development. Where ideology trumps intellect and to hell with the consequences. Where cautioning against a reckless rush towards over-reliance on renewables gets you shunned as an unbeliever, a "denier".
..
Anthony Albanese swore on the ballot box that our household power bills would fall by more than $250 per household per year. What’s worse? Knowing it was a lie or not realising it was never going to be possible?

Which brings us to the here and now. A fraught environment in which the loudest voices outside of government pushing the green dream are elites who, from Australia’s largest homes, private planes, islands and yachts, lecture to the rest of us with an “okay proletariat, line up for your soup” kind of vibe. In a cute but not unexpected plot twist, their individual carbon footprints are the largest in the country, according to international aid agency Oxfam. Meanwhile, everyone else braces themselves for what’s to come.

In the same week federal MP for Curtin Kate Chaney suggested a resources super-profits tax would “help Australia’s most vulnerable”. What an odd concept. Let’s further take a bat to one of the only reliable, affordable energy sources, which will drive prices higher still, which in turn will hit lowest income earners the hardest, so we can – wait for it – help the most vulnerable. You’d be hard-pressed to make this stuff up on a bad day. This is what you get when the conversation is half-baked and full of half-truths.

..
Policy absolutists are just as bad as the Christian who takes one verse from the Bible and makes a doctrine out of it. In this case, it’s the doctrine of renewables-at-all-costs that is the threat. Heaven help us all.
Gemma Tognini

lee wrote on Nov 11^th, 2022 at 9:06pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 11th, 2022 at 8:29pm: Well.... people are demanding govt.-based insurance, as the private sector can't pay up for the increasing number of weather (aka climate) catastrophes. So which insurance companies have gone broke in Australia, in the last 5 years? ::)

Wrong question, as usual.

Private sector profit-seekers are now refusing to insure  people - at affordable prices - who they consider live in climate affected zones.

Frank wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 9:15am:

This week I was chatting to one business owner and, like most in the neighbourhood, his is a family affair. They pay just shy of $50k annually in power bills. They’ve been told to expect that to double next year. Yep. From $50k to $100k in a year. This is a scandal. There’s no other word for it. And the awful reality is, small businesses in neighbourhoods like mine, all across Australia, will be hit with this body blow. It will land on families that can absorb it, albeit resentfully, and those for whom it means they won’t eat some nights. Homes, families, neighbours and businesses like yours and mine. Australia is hostage to this energy crisis by its own hand, and the drama is playing out in a crowded echo chamber, where fear-driven absolutism reigns. Where middle ground is not allowed in discussion, let alone policy development. Where ideology trumps intellect and to hell with the consequences. Where cautioning against a reckless rush towards over-reliance on renewables gets you shunned as an unbeliever, a "denier". .. Anthony Albanese swore on the ballot box that our household power bills would fall by more than $250 per household per year. What’s worse? Knowing it was a lie or not realising it was never going to be possible? Which brings us to the here and now. A fraught environment in which the loudest voices outside of government pushing the green dream are elites who, from Australia’s largest homes, private planes, islands and yachts, lecture to the rest of us with an “okay proletariat, line up for your soup” kind of vibe. In a cute but not unexpected plot twist, their individual carbon footprints are the largest in the country, according to international aid agency Oxfam. Meanwhile, everyone else braces themselves for what’s to come. In the same week federal MP for Curtin Kate Chaney suggested a resources super-profits tax would “help Australia’s most vulnerable”. What an odd concept. Let’s further take a bat to one of the only reliable, affordable energy sources, which will drive prices higher still, which in turn will hit lowest income earners the hardest, so we can – wait for it – help the most vulnerable. You’d be hard-pressed to make this stuff up on a bad day. This is what you get when the conversation is half-baked and full of half-truths. .. Policy absolutists are just as bad as the Christian who takes one verse from the Bible and makes a doctrine out of it. In this case, it’s the doctrine of renewables-at-all-costs that is the threat. Heaven help us all. Gemma Tognini

Tognini- just another AGW-CO2 denier.

AGW-CO2 is the ULTIMATE threat, if it is real.

And you can't prove it's not real.

So, since we no longer need the private greedy poisonous fossil price gougers , let's get on with the transition to cheap (after the infrastructure is built), clean limitless renewables ASAP.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 11:19am:

Frank wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 9:15am: This week I was chatting to one business owner and, like most in the neighbourhood, his is a family affair. They pay just shy of $50k annually in power bills. They’ve been told to expect that to double next year. Yep. From $50k to $100k in a year. This is a scandal. There’s no other word for it. And the awful reality is, small businesses in neighbourhoods like mine, all across Australia, will be hit with this body blow. It will land on families that can absorb it, albeit resentfully, and those for whom it means they won’t eat some nights. Homes, families, neighbours and businesses like yours and mine. Australia is hostage to this energy crisis by its own hand, and the drama is playing out in a crowded echo chamber, where fear-driven absolutism reigns. Where middle ground is not allowed in discussion, let alone policy development. Where ideology trumps intellect and to hell with the consequences. Where cautioning against a reckless rush towards over-reliance on renewables gets you shunned as an unbeliever, a "denier". .. Anthony Albanese swore on the ballot box that our household power bills would fall by more than $250 per household per year. What’s worse? Knowing it was a lie or not realising it was never going to be possible? Which brings us to the here and now. A fraught environment in which the loudest voices outside of government pushing the green dream are elites who, from Australia’s largest homes, private planes, islands and yachts, lecture to the rest of us with an “okay proletariat, line up for your soup” kind of vibe. In a cute but not unexpected plot twist, their individual carbon footprints are the largest in the country, according to international aid agency Oxfam. Meanwhile, everyone else braces themselves for what’s to come. In the same week federal MP for Curtin Kate Chaney suggested a resources super-profits tax would “help Australia’s most vulnerable”. What an odd concept. Let’s further take a bat to one of the only reliable, affordable energy sources, which will drive prices higher still, which in turn will hit lowest income earners the hardest, so we can – wait for it – help the most vulnerable. You’d be hard-pressed to make this stuff up on a bad day. This is what you get when the conversation is half-baked and full of half-truths. .. Policy absolutists are just as bad as the Christian who takes one verse from the Bible and makes a doctrine out of it. In this case, it’s the doctrine of renewables-at-all-costs that is the threat. Heaven help us all. Gemma Tognini Tognini- just another AGW-CO2 denier. AGW-CO2 is the ULTIMATE threat, if it is real. And you can't prove it's not real. So, since we no longer need the private greedy poisonous fossil price gougers , let's get on with the transition to cheap (after the infrastructure is built), clean limitless renewables ASAP.

:D :D :D :D "denier". When any yappy bozo like you uses the word "denier" as a counter-argument one knows you lot are full of crap.




And it's not cheap, not reliable. That's why we moved away from windmills in the 18th century.


This week I was chatting to one business owner and, like most in the neighbourhood, his is a family affair. They pay just shy of $50k annually in power bills. They’ve been told to expect that to double next year. Yep. From $50k to $100k in a year.

Frank wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 12:24pm:

:D :D :D :D "denier". When any yappy bozo like you uses the word "denier" as a counter-argument one knows you lot are full of crap.

The fact remains, if AGW-CO2 is real, it is the ultimate threat. And no one can prove it isn't real.


Quote:

And it's not cheap, not reliable. That's why we moved away from windmills in the 18th century.

Wrong, we moved away from windmills because technological change enabled us to.

Just as modern renewables technology enables us to move beyond poisonous overpriced fossil fuels.



Quote:

This week I was chatting to one business owner and, like most in the neighbourhood, his is a family affair. They pay just shy of $50k annually in power bills. They’ve been told to expect that to double next year. Yep. From $50k to $100k in a year.

Chalmers is being typically recalcitrant, but I expect he will introduce a windfall profits tax or price caps on the fossil price gougers,  when Oz businesses start falling over because of high energy prices.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 12:58pm:

The fact remains, if AGW-CO2 is real, it is the ultimate threat. And no one can prove it isn't real.

And no one has proven it as real. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 12:58pm:

Wrong, we moved away from windmills because technological change enabled us to.

Yes. It is an old technology. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 12:58pm:

Chalmers is being typically recalcitrant, but I expect he will introduce a windfall profits tax or price caps on the fossil price gougers,  when Oz businesses start falling over because of high energy prices.

The states had the right to impose limits to exports and what had to be held in reserve.. Even as far back as Charles Court who hasn't been in politics since 1982. ::)

lee wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 1:18pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 12:58pm: The fact remains, if AGW-CO2 is real, it is the ultimate threat. And no one can prove it isn't real. And no one has proven it as real. ::)

And you are willing to rule out the alarming predictions of most AGW-CO2 scientists...which is the reason why 180 nations are attending COP27. 


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 12:58pm:

Wrong, we moved away from windmills because technological change enabled us to.

Er....an offshore  "windmill" with a blade span of 100 metres...not your typical land-based 4 meter windmill of the 18th century...


Quote:

Yes. It is an old technology. ::)

No, just an old concept, which is a different thing to technological advance.


Quote:

The states had the right to impose limits to exports and what had to be held in reserve.

And only WA had the foresight to do that, a decade ago. 


Quote:

Even as far back as Charles Court who hasn't been in politics since 1982. ::)

Former WA (ALP) premier Alan Carpenter told The Sydney Morning Herald (June 2022) and The Age it was unfathomable that the scheme he implemented in 2006, which forces 15 per cent of gas produced in the state to be reserved for local users, had not been copied in other parts of the country.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/it-s-ridiculous-architect-of-wa-policy-calls-for-national-gas-reservation-20220616-p5au8q.html

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 1:31pm:

And you are willing to rule out the alarming predictions of most AGW-CO2 scientists...which is the reason why 180 nations are attending COP27.

Yes. Even back to Aarhenius and Callendar they predicted any warming benign. It was warmer in the MWP and the Roman Optimum which is why they are still discovering artifacts revealed by retreating glaciers, ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 1:31pm:

Er....an offshore  "windmill" with a blade span of 100 metres...not your typical land-based 4 meter windmill of the 18th century...

The same technology merely larger blades. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 1:31pm:

No, just an old concept, which is a different thing to technological advance.

Nope. Merely larger. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 1:31pm:

And only WA had the foresight to do that, a decade ago

Nope Charles Court between 1974 and 1982. ::)

"Western Australia has had a domestic gas policy since the 1970s when
Sir Charles Court's Government negotiated domestic gas supply with the North West
Shelf Joint Venture. "

https://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/Parliament/commit.nsf/luInquiryPublicSubmissions/202920C5F1A0858F4825785D0012C7AC/$file/Sub%2019%20-%20Department%20of%20State%20Development%20-%2020100630.pdf

lee wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 1:45pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 1:31pm: And you are willing to rule out the alarming predictions of most AGW-CO2 scientists...which is the reason why 180 nations are attending COP27.  Yes. Even back to Aarhenius and Callendar they predicted any warming benign. It was warmer in the MWP and the Roman Optimum which is why they are still discovering artifacts revealed by retreating glaciers, ::)

Good for you; but the rest of the world is ignoring you.


Quote:

The same technology merely larger blades. ::)

Nonsense - massive technical advance behind the prowess of modern engineers. 


Quote:

Nope. Merely larger. ::)

Refuted above.


Quote:

Nope Charles Court between 1974 and 1982. ::) "Western Australia has had a domestic gas policy since the 1970s when Sir Charles Court's Government negotiated domestic gas supply with the North West Shelf Joint Venture. " https://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/Parliament/commit.nsf/luInquiryPublicSubmissions/202920C5F1A0858F4825785D0012C7AC/$file/Sub%2019%20-%20Department%20of%20State%20Development%20-%2020100630.pdf

And apparently Carpenter had to go through the whole negotiation process again with Chevron, while the Eastern states folded. 

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 2:05pm:

Good for you; but the rest of the world is ignoring you.

Define Rest of the World. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 2:05pm:

Nonsense - massive technical advance behind the prowess of modern engineers.

Nonsense. An incremental advance at best.


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 2:05pm:

Refuted above.

Rubbish. You have refuted nothing. But it is your Go-To phrase when backed into a corner. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 2:05pm:

And apparently Carpenter had to go through the whole negotiation process again with Chevron, while the Eastern states folded.

And nowhere did I say different. He merely updated the contracts from 30 odd years earlier. ::)

lee wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 2:12pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 2:05pm: Good for you; but the rest of the world is ignoring you. Define Rest of the World. ::) The UN. Quote: Nonsense. An incremental advance at best. nevertheless a single modern windmill can power multiple homes [quote]And nowhere did I say different. He merely updated the contracts from 30 odd years earlier. ::)

Liar.
He had to fight against the vicious attacks of the gas companies who threatened to take their investment elsewhere.   The Eastern states folded, of course, desperate for local job creation.... exorbitant prices for local consumers not withstanding.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 3:18pm:

The UN.

The UN is an unrepresentative body that is NOT the rest of the world. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 3:18pm:

nevertheless a single modern windmill can power multiple homes

And it still suffers the same limitations. No wind means no electricity. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 3:18pm:

Liar.

Then show me where I said different. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 3:18pm:

He had to fight against the vicious attacks of the gas companies who threatened to take their investment elsewhere.

Did he? Can you show me where he said that? The SMH link doesn't. ::)

lee wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 3:33pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 3:18pm: The UN. The UN is an unrepresentative body that is NOT the rest of the world. ::)

Er..representing all 193 nations on the planet..


Quote:

And it still suffers the same limitations. No wind means no electricity. ::)

Not with pumped hydro storage backup-  that other "primitive" technology


Quote:

Did he? Can you show me where he said that? The SMH link doesn't. ::)

Doesn't it? Try this: 

A little over a decade ago, then-West Australian premier Alan Carpenter had his back against the wall.

Global oil and gas giants determined the new wave of Liquified Natural Gas investment would not be subject to WA's longstanding gas reservation policy, and were threatening to back away from Australia, to put their money elsewhere.

Federal pollies with a view no further than the next election were mustering behind the oil giants, seduced by the short-term sugar hit the construction would deliver.

Local industry and power companies, meanwhile, were sounding nervous warnings about the potential impact on domestic gas supplies and prices.

The showdown came in mid-2006 in Perth. United States-based multinational Exxon had a team of executives in Australia running the numbers over the viability of the giant Gorgon gas project off the north-west coast.

According to some present at the meeting, the Exxon team delivered an ultimatum. Unless "every molecule of gas" was available for export, they would walk away from the Gorgon project, in which they held a one-third share.

Carpenter stood his ground. He thanked them for their efforts and said, if that was the case then, regrettably, the project was dead and they had nothing further to discuss.

Carpenter stood his ground. He thanked them for their efforts and said, if that was the case then, regrettably, the project was dead and they had nothing further to discuss.

Within 24 hours, the Exxon executives, in a slightly more accommodative tone, requested another meeting in which they helpfully declared that, having re-crunched the numbers, they were confident they could meet both domestic and export requirements.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-23/the-case-for-an-east-coast-gas-reservation-policy/9074896

Greedy a**holes just couldn't walk away, even after all their huffing and puffing...

Actually Carpenter should have pissed them off, and nationalized the project. And now the government could  close it down in a timely fashion, ie, ASAP.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 4:14pm:

Er..representing all 193 nations n the lanet..

Which doesn't make them representative of everyone. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 4:14pm:

Not with pumped hydro storage backup-  that other "primitive" technology

Please show where pumped hydro is primitive. So you agree that wind power is not able to provide baseload power. Thanks for that. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 4:14pm:

Doesn't it?

No it doesn't. That's why you provided a new link.

And nothing in your follow up link says anything about "vicious attacks".


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 3:18pm:

He had to fight against the vicious attacks of the gas companies who threatened to take their investment elsewhere.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 4:14pm:

Actually Carpenter should have pissed them off, and nationalized the project.

How can one state "nationalize" anything? ::)

Once again your emotions are carrying you along. ::)

lee wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 4:22pm:

......

They all turned up to COP27 representing everyone,  except die hard fossil price gougers (apart from c.600 fossil reps promoting green-washing)... and AGW-CO2 climate deniers.


Quote:

Please show where pumped hydro is primitive. So you agree that wind power is not able to provide baseload power. Thanks for that. ::)

er.. you claimed wind power is primitive (old technology); I thought I'd point out hydro - whether for producing electricity or storing it , is also old technology  which can be utilised using modern engineering to wean us off fossils. 


Quote:

No it doesn't. That's why you provided a new link.

No, I provided the new link because you said the SMH article didn't outline how the fossil companies stood over - and  resisted  - Carpenter who had the interests  of WA citizens uppermost.   


Quote:

And nothing in your follow up link says anything about "vicious attacks".

Greedy, lying, selfish bastards...not vicious enough for you? 


Quote:

How can one state "nationalize" anything? ::)

Good point. But as the article points out, the Feds were so terrified of losing the sugar hit of immediate jobs creation, they pressured the Eastern premiers to give  into the fossil profit and price gougers .


Quote:

Once again your emotions are carrying you along. ::)

Once again you are showing your limited powers of analysis and comprehension.   

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 4:49pm:

They all turned up to COP27 representing everyone,  except die hard fossil price gougers (apart from c.600 fossil reps promoting green-washing)... and AGW-CO2 climate deniers.

So they didn't turn up to represent everyone. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 4:49pm:

er.. you claimed wind power is primitive (old technology); I thought I'd point out hydro - whether for producing electricity or storing it , is also old technology  which can be utilised using modern engineering to wean us off fossils.

So you pointed out something that wasn't even inferred. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 4:49pm:

No, I provided the new link because you said the SMH article didn't outline how the fossil companies stood over - and  resisted  - Carpenter who had the interests  of WA citizens uppermost.

And I was right. The SMH article didn't. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 4:49pm:

Greedy, lying, selfish bastards...not vicious enough for you?

Nowhere in the piece you linked said anything like that. ::)



thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 4:49pm:

Good point.

Yep. So it was a lie. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 4:49pm:

Once again you are showing your limited powers of analysis and comprehension.

Never mind Gweggy. ::)

lee wrote on Nov 13^th, 2022 at 5:24pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 13th, 2022 at 4:49pm: They all turned up to COP27 representing everyone,  except die hard fossil price gougers (apart from c.600 fossil reps promoting green-washing)... and AGW-CO2 climate deniers. So they didn't turn up to represent everyone. ::)

Your pro-fossil views are among a small minority, and a barrier to progress toward clean abundant cheap renewable energy. 


Quote:

So you pointed out something that wasn't even inferred. ::)

you seem to have a problem with old concepts utilizing  new technology...


Quote:

And I was right. The SMH article didn't. ::)

OK, so my 2nd link sorted you out.


Quote:

Nowhere in the piece you linked said anything like that. ::)

"According to some present at the meeting, the Exxon team delivered an ultimatum. Unless "every molecule of gas" was available for export, they would walk away from the Gorgon project, in which they held a one-third share."

IOW, Carpenter gave those vicious, self-interested fossil thugs the middle finger....


Quote:

Yep. So it was a lie. ::)

Blind self-interested  ideologues like you are incapable of telling truth from lies.

Hence your insane comment above, yet on reflection, Carpenter COULD have 'nationalized' WA's resources...

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 1:46pm:

Your pro-fossil views are among a small minority, and a barrier to progress toward clean abundant cheap renewable energy.

But you said everyone. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 1:46pm:

you seem to have a problem with old concepts utilizing  new technology...

The technology isn't new Just bigger. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 1:46pm:

OK, so my 2nd link sorted you out.

.
You second link said nothing about "vicious" attacks. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 1:46pm:

"According to some present at the meeting, the Exxon team delivered an ultimatum. Unless "every molecule of gas" was available for export, they would walk away from the Gorgon project, in which they held a one-third share."

That is not an example of any kind of attack. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 1:46pm:

IOW, Carpenter gave those vicious, self-interested fossil thugs the middle finger....

So no "vicious attacks" then. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 1:46pm:

Blind self-interested  ideologues like you are incapable of telling truth from lies.

And yet it was you who lied about "vicious attacks". ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 1:46pm:

Hence your insane comment above, yet on reflection, Carpenter COULD have 'nationalized' WA's resources...

No he couldn't. He was in no position as STATE premier to NATIONALIZE anything. ::)

You really get triggered Gweggy when someone question  your fanboi Alan. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

lee wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 2:59pm:

But you said everyone. ::)

Typical conservative, not capable of reading nuance into the meaning, and insisting on reading the law by the letter. 


Quote:

The technology isn't new Just bigger. ::)

Bigger requires new technology


Quote:

You second link said nothing about "vicious" attacks. ::)

see.....incapable of any insight into the vicious, instinctive greed of neoliberalism - and the demands of fossil price-gougers to maximize their own profits at the expense of consumers. 


Quote:

That is not an example of any kind of attack. ::)

As noted above, you lack any insight into your greed-based neoliberalism,  and its attack on the well-being of others.


Quote:

So no "vicious attacks" then. ::)

Continuing to display your ignorant and vicious nature ( (even if unconscious and instinctive, which is no excuse). At this point you ran away last time you were confronted with your evil nature. You have a chance to exonerate yourself now.   


Quote:

No he couldn't. He was in no position as STATE premier to NATIONALIZE anything. ::)

There you go again, you vicious conservative, hung up on 'letter to the law' stuff.

Guess what: conservative SA premier Playford nationalized the Adelaide Electricity Company in the 1950s, when that private company refused to utilize SA's cheap brown coal reserves, so they could maintain their profits on more expensive imported coal. The ALP loved Playford, they called him the state's "best socialist"....


Quote:

you really get triggered...

by your vicious neoliberal ideology, yes.....and this coming from you ...who ran away when confronted with facing the basis of your evil ideology.

Media blind to pantomime on climate stage
It should be obvious that national leaders, presiding over a 6 per cent rise in global emissions this past year, don’t actually believe in an imminent emergency



It IS complete BS.

PANTOMIME - the mot just for this entire climate wheeze. Make belief, in utterly bad faith.

Frank wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 8:18pm:

Media blind to pantomime on climate stage

Yet we must get rid of the poisonous fossil industry - a diminishing resource, better sooner than later. 


Quote:

It should be obvious that national leaders, presiding over a 6 per cent rise in global emissions this past year, don’t actually believe in an imminent emergency

Er...lack of a functional international rules-based system has something to do with that; without the Ukraine war, emissions would have continued on their downward trend (even if too slowly...)


Quote:

It IS complete BS. PANTOMIME - the mot just for this entire climate wheeze. Make belief, in utterly bad faith.

The postulated AGW-CO2 emergency?

Even so, the sooner we exit fossils the better.







[/quote]

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 8:15pm:

ypical conservative, not capable of reading nuance into the meaning, and insisting on reading the law by the letter.

So words and phrases have special meaning? You want sauce with that? ::) ::) ::) ::)
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 8:15pm:

Bigger requires new technology

Nope. Steel instead of wood. Not new technology. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 8:15pm:

see.....incapable of any insight into the vicious, instinctive greed of neoliberalism - and the demands of fossil price-gougers to maximize their own profits at the expense of consumers.

See ... you lied. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 8:15pm:

As noted above, you lack any insight into your greed-based neoliberalism,  and its attack on the well-being of others.

Never mind gewggy. ;)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 8:15pm:

Continuing to display your ignorant and vicious nature ( (even if unconscious and instinctive, which is no excuse). At this point you ran away last time you were confronted with your evil nature. You have a chance to exonerate yourself now.

So nothing "vicious" then. ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 8:15pm:

There you go again, you vicious conservative, hung up on 'letter to the law' stuff.

And you where words don't have the common meaning ascribed to them. ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 8:15pm:

Guess what: conservative SA premier Playford nationalized the Adelaide Electricity Company in the 1950s, when that private company refused to utilize SA's cheap brown coal reserves, so they could maintain their profits on more expensive imported coal. The ALP loved Playford, they called him the state's "best socialist"....

Nope. It was purely STATE based, nothing NATIONAL about it. You really shouldn't use words of which you don't know the meaning. ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 8:15pm:

by your vicious neoliberal ideology, yes.....and this coming from you ...who ran away when confronted with facing the basis of your evil ideology.

Never mind gweggy. ;)

lee wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 8:50pm:

So words and phrases have special meaning?

not special, but nuanced: your simplistic black and white conservative world view renders you blind


Quote:

Nope. Steel instead of wood. Not new technology. ::)

Materials technology used in electric motors - and windmills.... is new and continually advancing



Quote:

See ... you lied. ::)

...said the ideologically-blinded man, a pathetic spectacle to behold.


Quote:

Never mind gewggy. ;)

 

Your ideological  viciousness  - even if unconscious -needs to be exposed.


Quote:

So nothing "vicious" then. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Neoliberalism is the ultimate form of vicious indifference to collective well-being.


Quote:

And you where words don't have the common meaning ascribed to them. ;D ;D ;D ;D

...in your view..BECAUSE you are ideologically blinded.


Quote:

Nope. It was purely STATE based, nothing NATIONAL about it. You really shouldn't use words of which you don't know the meaning. ;D ;D ;D ;D

oh dear..are you autistic as well as ideologically blind and evil:

(quick google)

In 1946 Premier Playford effectively nationalised the Adelaide Electricity Supply Company by forming the Electricity Trust of South Australia (ETSA) as South Australia's public electricity supply company, and took over the assets and the operations of the AESC

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 9:21pm:

not special, but nuanced: your simplistic black and white conservative world view renders you blind

Nope if you don't want words to have there original meanings  you must spell out exactly what you mean. Otherwise even people within a certain clique can't tell the difference in meaning. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 9:21pm:

Materials technology used in electric motors - and windmills.... is new and continually advancing

Nope. They still use copper and steel. The magnets have had a small technology shift with the addition of neodymium. But that has a huge environmental cost. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 9:21pm:

..said the ideologically-blinded man, a pathetic spectacle to behold.

Yes. Because you couldn't provide any foundation to your "vicious attacks" diatribe. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 9:21pm:

Your ideological  viciousness  - even if unconscious -needs to be exposed.

Never mind Gweggy. We know you don't do science. ::)
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 9:21pm:

Neoliberalism is the ultimate form of vicious indifference to collective well-being.

So no "vicious attacks" then. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 9:21pm:

.in your view..BECAUSE you are ideologically blinded.

So tell us where we find these new IMPROVED meanings. Or is it that only the scientists should know? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 14^th, 2022 at 9:21pm:

(quick google) In 1946 Premier Playford effectively nationalised t

Yes petal. Someone wrote that. BUT he can't have NATIONALIZED anything. He was a STATE Premier NOT a head of the COMMOINWEALTH GOVERNMENT. ::)

lee wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 11:51am:

Yes. Because you couldn't provide any foundation to your "vicious attacks" diatribe. ::)

Wrong;  you don't accept any description of a 'foundation', because you are among those very same greedy neoliberal ideologues  who are responsible for destroying collective well-being in the world.


Quote:

So no "vicious attacks" then. ::)

See.... case closed, you greedy neoliberal ideologue -  totally unaware of the egregious - and vicious -  effects of instinctive greed. 


Quote:

Yes petal. Someone wrote that. BUT he can't have NATIONALIZED anything. He was a STATE Premier NOT a head of the COMMOINWEALTH GOVERNMENT. ::)

And "someone" else wrote this:

https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/victoria-to-bring-back-state-ownership-of-energy-20221020-p5brci

‘Shocked’: Andrews nationalises electricity

Angela Macdonald-Smith, Patrick Durkin and Colin Packham
Oct 20, 2022 – 11.12am

Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews’ plan to “bring back” the government-owned State Electricity Commission to reverse the decades-long privatisation of Australia’s energy market will chill private investment and hurt ordinary investors and workers, the CEOs of Woodside Energy, Alinta Energy and Australian Energy Council warn.

So even the neoliberal fossil turds responsible for this article accept a 'common usage' of the term nationalization.   

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 12:59pm:

Wrong;  you don't accept any description of a 'foundation', because you are among those very same greedy neoliberal ideologues  who are responsible for destroying collective well-being in the world.

You haven't given any foundation. Merely handballed it to the UN/IPCC. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 12:59pm:

See.... case closed, you greedy neoliberal ideologue -  totally unaware of the egregious - and vicious -  effects of instinctive greed.

Yes, Case closed. You have provided no evidence. Fail. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 12:59pm:

And "someone" else wrote this: https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/victoria-to-bring-back-state-ownership-of-e...

A journalist. Wow you have gone from scientists to journalists  but not the source for your claims. Anther fail. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 12:59pm:

So even the neoliberal fossil turds responsible for this article accept a 'common usage' of the term nationalization.

A journalist. Who obviously failed comprehension. ::)

Removing privatisation is not nationalization unless taken at the national level. ::)

lee wrote on Nov 15^th, 2022 at 2:27pm:

Yes, Case closed. You have provided no evidence. Fail. ::)

The evidence is gleaned from the effects (like 'dark matter'), namely,   the egregious - and vicious -  effects of instinctive greed in tandem with the ego.

Hence Ed Husic's "glut of greed" comment.

The private sector is based on this individual greed.


Quote:

A journalist. Who obviously failed comprehension. ::)

Er....careful while throwing stones: that article was written by THREE neoliberal turds (that's a fact..)


Quote:

Removing privatisation is not nationalization unless taken at the national level. ::)

Four journalists disagree with you, not a matter of science but common usage. 

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 16^th, 2022 at 11:59am:

The evidence is gleaned from the effects (like 'dark matter'), namely,   the egregious - and vicious -  effects of instinctive greed in tandem with the ego.

So still nothing vicious. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 16^th, 2022 at 11:59am:

The private sector is based on this individual greed.

So no private sector. That means all in the hands of Government. Communism at its finest. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 16^th, 2022 at 11:59am:

Er....careful while throwing stones: that article was written by THREE neoliberal turds (that's a fact..)

Yes. I saw that. Why three? "One can read, One can write, and the other likes to hang around with intellectuals."
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 16^th, 2022 at 11:59am:

Four journalists disagree with you, not a matter of science but common usage.

Wow. And none of them correct. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Perhaps if they were to use "nuance". 'nationalises'. ;)

I wonder if Stanley Johnson has inadvertently blurted out a #NetZero future reality:

'If that means, actually, some of us are told, well you can't go on a plane, that's fine. That's part of the national plan.' via
@GBNews

https://mobile.twitter.com/CarterCarter/status/1591496186049036301


Schwab and the World Economic Forum

The World Economic Forum (WEF) is an international non-governmental and lobbying organisation[1] based in Cologny, canton of Geneva, Switzerland. It was founded on 24 January 1971 by German engineer and economist Klaus Schwab. The foundation, which is mostly funded by its 1,000 member companies – typically global enterprises with more than five billion US dollars in turnover – as well as public subsidies, views its own mission as "improving the state of the world by engaging business, political, academic, and other leaders of society to shape global, regional, and industry agendas"

Membership
The foundation is funded by its 1,000 member companies, typically global enterprises with more than five billion dollars in turnover (varying by industry and region). These enterprises rank among the top companies within their industry and/or country and play a leading role in shaping the future of their industry and/or region. Membership is stratified by the level of engagement with forum activities, with the level of membership fees increasing as participation in meetings, projects, and initiatives rises.[49] In 2011, an annual membership cost $52,000 for an individual member, $263,000 for "Industry Partner" and $527,000 for "Strategic Partner". An admission fee costs $19,000 per person.[50] In 2014, WEF raised annual fees by 20 percent, bringing the cost for "Strategic Partner" from CHF 500,000 ($523,000) to CHF 600,000 ($628,000).[51]



The Great Reset
Main article: The Great Reset
In May 2020, the WEF and the Prince of Wales's Sustainable Markets Initiative launched "The Great Reset" project, a five-point plan to enhance sustainable economic growth following the global recession caused by the COVID-19 pandemic lockdowns.[119] "The Great Reset" was to be the theme of WEF's Annual Meeting in August 2021.[120]

According to forum founder Schwab, the intention of the project is to reconsider the meaning of capitalism and capital. While not abandoning capitalism, he proposes to change and possibly move on from some aspects of it, including neoliberalism and free-market fundamentalism. The role of corporations, taxation and more should be reconsidered. International cooperation and trade should be defended and the Fourth Industrial Revolution also.[121][122]

The forum defines the system that it wants to create as "Stakeholder Capitalism". The forum support Trade unions.

Undemocratic decision making
According to the European Parliament's think tank, critics see the WEF as an instrument for political and business leaders to "take decisions without having to account to their electorate or shareholders".[148]

Since 2009, the WEF has been working on a project called the Global Redesign Initiative (GRI), which proposes a transition away from intergovernmental decision-making towards a system of multi-stakeholder governance. According to the Transnational Institute (TNI), the Forum is hence planning to replace a recognised democratic model with a model where a self-selected group of "stakeholders" make decisions on behalf of the people.[149]

Some critics have seen the WEFs attention to goals like environmental protection and social entrepreneurship as mere window dressing to disguise its true plutocratic nature and goals.[150] In a Guardian opinion piece, Cas Mudde said that such plutocrats should not be the group to have control over the political agendas and decide which issues to focus on and how to support them.[151] A writer in the German magazine Cicero saw the situation as academic, cultural, media and economic elites grasping for social power while disregarding political decision processes. A materially well-endowed milieu would in this context try to "cement its dominance of opinion and sedate ordinary people with maternalistic-paternalistic social benefits, so that they are not disturbed by the common people when they steer".[152] The French Les Echos furthermore concludes that Davos "represents the exact values people rejected at the ballot box".[153]

Corporate capture of global and democratic institutions
The World Economic Forum's "Global Redesign" report suggests to create "public-private" United Nations (UN) in which selected agencies operate and steer global agendas under shared governance systems.[6] It says that a globalised world is probably best managed by a coalition of multinational corporations, governments and civil society organizations (CSOs),[6] which it expresses through initiatives like the "Great Reset"[7] and the "Global Redesign".[9]




Oder a pizza with Deliveroo....

lee wrote on Nov 16^th, 2022 at 12:49pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 16th, 2022 at 11:59am: The evidence is gleaned from the effects (like 'dark matter'), namely,   the egregious - and vicious -  effects of instinctive greed in tandem with the ego. So still nothing vicious. ::)

Er...unending wars  and entrenched poverty....caused by vicious greed of porer brokers


Quote:

So no private sector. That means all in the hands of Government. Communism at its finest. ::)

...see, displaying your 'black and white' thinking again;
we have moved on from soviet central planning, to adapting/utilizing human nature  (greed/self-interest) to impel private sector development, managed by the public sector to ensure fair allocation of necessities.

Btw , in the bunfight  over funding for climate change damage, COP27 are at last - and for the first time -  bringing the IMF and World Bank into the discussion....


Quote:

Wow. And none of them correct. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Perhaps if they were to use "nuance". 'nationalises'. ;)

So says  the 'letter to the law' conservative.

So Andrews plans to transfer the SEC back to the public sector. Happy now?

thegreatdivide -

can you please delete your profile avatar? -

or change it to a working picture?

Frank wrote on Nov 17^th, 2022 at 3:56pm:

Oder a pizza with Deliveroo....

https://scheerpost.com/2022/05/17/ellen-brown-this-is-what-a-peoples-reset-would-look-like/

Only a People’s Monetary Reset Can Prevent a Feudalistic Technocracy

Instead of buying into the World Economic Forum’s dystopian “Great Reset,” we can build an alternative system with a mandate to serve the people.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 12:02pm:

Er...unending wars  and entrenched poverty....caused by vicious greed of porer brokers

And it has always been thus. Still  no vicious attacks on your fanboi Alan. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 12:02pm:

.see, displaying your 'black and white' thinking again; we have moved on from soviet central planning, to adapting/utilizing human nature  (greed/self-interest) to impel private sector development, managed by the public sector to ensure fair allocation of necessities.

No we haven't. We will always have those who think they are "elite" and the rules do not apply to them. They usually end up as dictators. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 12:02pm:

Btw , in the bunfight  over funding for climate change damage, COP27 are at last - and for the first time -  bringing the IMF and World Bank into the discussion....

Ah yes. COP27 again. Where the world elites saying we should eschew meat and eat bugs, stop eating seafood because we are killing the oceans.. But they provided Succulent rare roast beef and seafood at their $1225 a plate dinner. And flew in on private jets. That's because they are "elites" and the rules don't apply to them. ::)

"World leaders and officials attending the United Nations COP27 climate conference can spend up to $100 per entree to eat red meat, seafood and other gourmet menu items. However, the UN has previously discouraged red meat consumption due to the carbon emissions that beef farming creates."

https://dailycaller.com/2022/11/16/un-climate-summit-lavish-vip-menu/?pnespid=sbw9AjtVL6ECweGbuW_kS4CRvxvwD4JpJLbmzbN6oAdme94JtVw6Pyox.nOaULHgAK8hLobz


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 12:02pm:

So says  the 'letter to the law' conservative.

So you don't believe in the "rule of law"? Maybe that explains why ytou believe in the "rule of elites". ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 12:02pm:

So Andrews plans to transfer the SEC back to the public sector.

We shall wait with bated breath on whether he attempts or whether he succeeds. ::)

With all that CO2 going into the air what has happened since Jan 2016?

https://i0.wp.com/wattsupwiththat.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/image-87.png

Damn. ;)

lee wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 1:13pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 20th, 2022 at 12:02pm: Er...unending wars  and entrenched poverty....caused by vicious greed of power brokers And it has always been thus. Still  no vicious attacks on your fanboi Alan. ::)

Chevron are the power-brokers; exercising vicious greed because they can; in this instance Carpenter stood his ground, but Chevron are still filthy poisonous fossil price gougers (vicious by definition), possibly destroying the planet's climate as well.   


Quote:

No we haven't. We will always have those who think they are "elite" and the rules do not apply to them. They usually end up as dictators. ::)

The expose' of the evil 'natural rate of unemployment' mainstream neoliberal economists'  dogma is proceeding apace, "always" is merely a reflection of your conservatism.


Quote:

Ah yes. COP27 again. Where the world elites saying we should eschew meat and eat bugs, stop eating seafood because we are killing the oceans.. But they provided Succulent rare roast beef and seafood at their $1225 a plate dinner. And flew in on private jets. That's because they are "elites" and the rules don't apply to them. ::)

Currently; but they are apparently looking at the implications of zero emissions, and facing the policy changes needed...not surpringly,  the World Bank has come into view...

Technology will solve air travel emissions; and we should be eating MUCH less meat and processed junk-food. 


Quote:

"World leaders and officials attending the United Nations COP27 climate conference can spend up to $100 per entree to eat red meat, seafood and other gourmet menu items. However, the UN has previously discouraged red meat consumption due to the carbon emissions that beef farming creates."

No doubt some of them are vegetarians...


Quote:

So you don't believe in the "rule of law"? Maybe that explains why ytou believe in the "rule of elites". ::)

er.. poor conservative brain; 'nationalize' versus 'public sector management' (same thing) has nothing to do with rule of law, and the tendency of conservatives to read the law to the letter. (eg, in a nation's  constitution)

You proved my point; you insist on reading your own meaning of "nationalize' into the debate, despite 4 journalists and countless others who differ from your reading.   


Quote:

We shall wait with bated breath on whether he attempts or whether he succeeds. ::)

 

Yes; ...and you blithely ignore my point, he intends to natio..oh,  never mind.


Quote:

With all that CO2 going into the air what has happened since Jan 2016?

You tell us...


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https://i0.wp.com/wattsupwiththat.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/image-87.png Damn. ;)

More disagreement among the experts?

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 2:05pm:

Chevron are the power-brokers; exercising vicious greed because they can; in this instance Carpenter stood his ground, but Chevron are still filthy poisonous fossil price gougers (vicious by definition), possibly destroying the planet's climate as well.

And no vicious attacks. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 2:05pm:

The expose' of the evil 'natural rate of unemployment' mainstream neoliberal economists'  dogma is proceeding apace, "always" is merely a reflection of your conservatism.

And not your view of the world? I can live with that. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 2:05pm:

Currently; but they are apparently looking at the implications of zero emissions, and facing the policy changes needed...not surpringly,  the World Bank has come into view...

Not looking at their own merely everyone else's. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 2:05pm:

Technology will solve air travel emissions; and we should be eating MUCH less meat and processed junk-food.

Nope. Technology relies on the most energy dense substance. And that is not batteries. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 2:05pm:

No doubt some of them are vegetarians...

Are they? Which ones? ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 2:05pm:

You proved my point; you insist on reading your own meaning of "nationalize' into the debate, despite 4 journalists and countless others who differ from your reading.

So now you support "journalists" who don't know the English language. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 2:05pm:

Yes; ...and you blithely ignore my point, he intends to natio..oh,  never mind.

I didn't ignore it. "There is many a slip twixt cup and lip". or perhaps "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 2:05pm:

You tell us...

I showed you.


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 2:05pm:

More disagreement among the experts?

With which experts do they disagree? ::)

lee wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 8:11pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 20th, 2022 at 2:05pm: Chevron are the power-brokers; exercising vicious greed because they can; in this instance Carpenter stood his ground, but Chevron are still filthy poisonous fossil price gougers (vicious by definition), possibly destroying the planet's climate as well.    And no vicious attacks. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You are complicit in unending wars and life-destroying poverty -  viciousness itself - because your world view makes you so. 


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And not your view of the world? I can live with that. ::)

Of course you can, you vicious a**hole. But like I said, the mainstream is waking up.


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Not looking at their own merely everyone else's. ::)

Naturally, politicians in the pockets of vicious "me first" ideologues.


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Nope. Technology relies on the most energy dense substance. And that is not batteries. ::)

Meaningless drivel.


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Are they? Which ones? ::)

The enlightened ones...


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So now you support "journalists" who don't know the English language. ::)

See the absurdities to which you are sinking....


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I didn't ignore it. "There is many a slip twixt cup and lip". or perhaps "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". ::)

We were discussing common usage of nationalization, not "intentions".

Your comprehension and relevance to the debate .... zero.


Quote:

I showed you. With which experts do they disagree? ::)

The ones noting highest ever temps this year in China,
(quick google)

The summer of 2022 was the hottest on record for Europe and China, the second-hottest for North America and Asia, and the fifth-hottest June-to-August period for planet Earth since record-keeping began in 1880, NOAA's National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI) reported September 14.14 Sept 2022

and that Oz temps are rising , not falling.

https://www.worlddata.info/global-warming.php

The graph for Oz (190-2020) shows warming, not cooling. The graphs for other continents show cooling in the last three years, except "Oceania" which shows temps continue to rise rapidly.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 1:32pm:

You are complicit in unending wars and life-destroying poverty -  viciousness itself - because your world view makes you so.

So tell us more about the vicious attacks on your fanboi Alan. You keep trying to sidetrack. Why is that Gweggy? ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 1:32pm:

Of course you can, you vicious a**hole. But like I said, the mainstream is waking up.

Seeing as you have never met me you come across as more than slightly unhinged. ::)

.
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 1:32pm:

Naturally, politicians in the pockets of vicious "me first" ideologues.

All politicians then . ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 1:32pm:

Meaningless drivel.

No That is your lack of science. It is not meaningless. Fossil fuels have a greater  energy density than wind or solar. Wind turbines have to be set a distance apart to prevent them being in the "wind shadow" of the ones near it. Solar have a large footprint so they are not energy dense either. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 1:32pm:

The enlightened ones...

So you can't name any of these "enlightened ones"? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

.
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 1:32pm:

See the absurdities to which you are sinking....

It is you don't have a good grasp of English. Rather like Humpty Dumpty 'When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’ ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 1:32pm:

We were discussing common usage of nationalization, not "intentions".

But it is Dan the Man's intentions not what he has achieved. So far he has achieved nothing. So all he has are "intentions". ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 1:32pm:

Your comprehension and relevance to the debate .... zero.

Never mind Gweggy. We know you are in your dotage. ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 1:32pm:

The ones noting highest ever temps this year in China,

So not GLOBAL warming then. ::)

"Image sources
Used images and graphics are own pictures as well as licensed content from Image Source, MEV, flickr (CC BY 2.0), pixabay (CC0), Wikimedia Commons (CC BY-SA 1.0, CC BY-SA 3.0, CC BY-SA 4.0), dreamstime, photocase, National Geophysical Data Center (NGDC, public domain), and Earth Science and Remote Sensing Unit, NASA Johnson Space Center. The maps marked with OpenStreetMap were provided by the OpenStreetMap Foundation (OSMF) under CC BY-SA with the Open Data Commons Open Database License (ODbL). "


"Data without guarantee © WorldData.info, all rights reserved"
https://www.worlddata.info/about.php

So not HadCRUt then? NO satellite transponder info either. Just where did they get their data? Wiki?  And the data is guaranteed. Oh dear.;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Only land based temperatures and I showed you the errors in BoM. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 1:32pm:

The graph for Oz (190-2020) shows warming, not cooling. The graphs for other continents show cooling in the last three years, except "Oceania" which shows temps continue to rise rapidly.

Yes Only land based not Land and Ocean. You do know about the Ocean don't you? Especially that really big body of water South of the Equator. ;)

You do know about the lack of data in the Southern Hemisphere in the 19th and early 20th century.

It moved Phil Jones, CRU, to say the normals in the South are mostly made up. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You are a one trick pony and you keep stumbling with your one trick. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

lee wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 3:21pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21st, 2022 at 1:32pm: You are complicit in unending wars and life-destroying poverty -  viciousness itself - because your world view makes you so.  So tell us more about the vicious attacks on your fanboi Alan. You keep trying to sidetrack. Why is that Gweggy? ::)

Oh..I concede; Carpenter was treated well....


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Seeing as you have never met me you come across as more than slightly unhinged. ::)

I don't need to meet you, your mind reveals all its vicious RW self-interest....


Quote:

All politicians then . ::)

Not all.


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No That is your lack of science. It is not meaningless. Fossil fuels have a greater  energy density than wind or solar. Wind turbines have to be set a distance apart to prevent them being in the "wind shadow" of the ones near it. Solar have a large footprint so they are not energy dense either. ::)

Irrelevant for harnessing 100% renewables.


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So you can't name any of these "enlightened ones"? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Didn't you know - vegetarianism is increasing rapidly, any gathering is likely to feature some.



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‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’ ;D ;D ;D ;D

letter to the law stuff again.


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But it is Dan the Man's intentions..

that's right he intends to "nationa..oh never mind


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Never mind Gweggy. We know you are in your dotage. ;D ;D ;D

of dear ...mirror time , you think I mentioned Dan to applaud him for his intended nationalization of the SEC... (I do applaud him for that plan, but that's not WHY I mentioned him..you have obviously forgotten WHY I mentioned it...talk about dotage


Quote:

So not GLOBAL warming then. ::) "Image sources Used images and graphics are own pictures as well as licensed content from Image Source, MEV, flickr (CC BY 2.0), pixabay (CC0), Wikimedia Commons (CC BY-SA 1.0, CC BY-SA 3.0, CC BY-SA 4.0), dreamstime, photocase, National Geophysical Data Center (NGDC, public domain), and Earth Science and Remote Sensing Unit, NASA Johnson Space Center. The maps marked with OpenStreetMap were provided by the OpenStreetMap Foundation (OSMF) under CC BY-SA with the Open Data Commons Open Database License (ODbL). " "Data without guarantee © WorldData.info, all rights reserved" https://www.worlddata.info/about.php So not HadCRUt then? NO satellite transponder info either. Just where did they get their data? Wiki?  And the data is guaranteed. Oh dear.;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Only land based temperatures and I showed you the errors in BoM. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21st, 2022 at 1:32pm: The graph for Oz (190-2020) shows warming, not cooling. The graphs for other continents show cooling in the last three years, except "Oceania" which shows temps continue to rise rapidly. Yes Only land based not Land and Ocean. You do know about the Ocean don't you? Especially that really big body of water South of the Equator. ;) You do know about the lack of data in the Southern Hemisphere in the 19th and early 20th century. It moved Phil Jones, CRU, to say the normals in the South are mostly made up. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Take it up with the experts, many of whom disagree with you, as I said. 



Quote:

You are a one trick pony and you keep stumbling with your one trick. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

There IS only 'one trick', to rid the world of the filthy, poisonous, fossil price gougers.

Meanwhile it's you who is disagreeing with the UN's climate expert opinion.   

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 4:07pm:

Oh..I concede; Carpenter was treated well....

It took your lies a long time to catch up. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 4:07pm:

I don't need to meet you, your mind reveals all its vicious RW self-interest....

Nope. That's another fallacy of yours. The fallacious TGD. ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 4:07pm:

Not all.

And yet you can't cite any, why is that? ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 4:07pm:

Irrelevant for harnessing 100% renewables.

Nope. It is indeed relevant. That's what your lack of science does. It leads you down rabbit holes where you lose your way. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 4:07pm:

Didn't you know - vegetarianism is increasing rapidly, any gathering is likely to feature some.

So the UN idea of eating bugs is out then. Except they don't believe it for themselves.::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 4:07pm:

letter to the law stuff again.

Nope. "letter OF the law stuff". So you don't want laws to be followed. What exactly do you want? A free-for all?::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 4:07pm:

So as I said -


lee wrote on Nov 20^th, 2022 at 8:11pm:

"There is many a slip twixt cup and lip". or perhaps "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

;)


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 4:07pm:

of dear ...mirror time , you think I mentioned Dan to applaud him for his intended nationalization of the SEC... (I do applaud him for that plan, but that's not WHY I mentioned him..you have obviously forgotten WHY I mentioned it...talk about dotage

Oh you had a reason for mentioning him? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 4:07pm:

Take it up with the experts, many of whom disagree with you, as I said.

And yet you can't cite anyone other than worldinfo which clearly says -


"
lee wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 3:21pm:

"Data without guarantee © WorldData.info, all rights reserved"

And we should accept that?. Oh dear. ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 4:07pm:

There IS only 'one trick', to rid the world of the filthy, poisonous, fossil price gougers.

And replace it with the new green Utopian price gougers. ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 4:07pm:

Meanwhile it's you who is disagreeing with the UN's climate expert opinion.

But what is the UN expert opinion? The IPCC's? Which parts do you agree with?

"Floods - In summary there is low confidence in the human influence on the changes in high river flows on the global scale. Confidence is in general low in attributing changes in the probability or magnitude of flood events to human influence because of a limited number of studies and differences in the results of these studies, and large modelling uncertainties. "

IPCC  AR6 WG1 11.5.4   ::)

"Droughts - There is medium confidence in the ability of ESMs to simulate trends and anomalies in precipitation deficits and AED, and also medium confidence in the ability of ESMs and hydrological models to simulate trends and anomalies in soil moisture and streamflow deficits, on global and regional scales"

IPCC AR6 WG1 11.6.3.6   ::)

"The high-end scenarios RCP8.5 or SSP5-8.5 have recently been argued
to be implausible to unfold (e.g., Hausfather and Peters, 2020; see
Chapter 3 of the AR6 WGIII)."   ::)

IPCC AR6 WG1 4.2.2

Where

IPCC- is the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change

AR6 - is the newest report

WG1 - is The Physical Science Basis

And then the Chapters and paragraphs.

Let us know what you disagree with. Please. ;)

lee wrote on Nov 21^st, 2022 at 5:11pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21st, 2022 at 4:07pm: Oh..I concede; Carpenter was treated well.... It took your lies a long time to catch up. ::)

Your crippled RW mind is based on lies and delusions, so the word 'vicious' is moot ...in your 'letter to the law' conservatism. Poverty and endless wars - product of your crippled RW mind plus NO insight - ARE vicious.


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Nope. It is indeed relevant. That's what your lack of science does. It leads you down rabbit holes where you lose your way. ::)

Crippled mind stuff; there is sufficient sunshine falling on the globe to power the globe many times over.


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So the UN idea of eating bugs is out then. Except they don't believe it for themselves.::)

Bugs are optional....I won't be eating them. 


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Nope. "letter OF the law stuff". So you don't want laws to be followed. What exactly do you want? A free-for all?::)

Already addressed. Your crippled conservative  mind insists on changing 'to' to 'of'...


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And replace it with the new green Utopian price gougers. ;D ;D ;D ;D

No; replace it with public-sector debt-free money-creators..from the World Bank down (incidentally mentioned by Bowen yesterday at COP27; he is catching on). 


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But what is the UN expert opinion? The IPCC's? Which parts do you agree with?

The consensus.... followed by all the world's nations who voluntarily turned up at COP27.....


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Let us know what you disagree with. Please. ;)

That's not my job. The IPCC has its consensus mouth- piece in the UN's General Secretary. I see no dispute from the IPCC re  Guterres' climate emergency proclamations.