Who here is against a UBI? Why?  Productivity means we can make most things people need without most people working.  Our choice is a world where more and more people starve b/c there is no work or a brighter future where work is a choice.  The latter also doens't work for infinite growth, which is destroying the planet

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp1617/BasicIncome


The ‘capitalist road to communism’—Philippe Van Parijs
Some UBI proposals are unashamedly utopian. For example, Robert van der Veen and Philippe Van Parijs envisage a UBI as part of a much broader project of social transformation that ends with full communism and the abolition of alienated wage labour. In a 1986 paper, van der Veen and Van Parijs proposed that a basic income could be a step along ‘a capitalist road to communism.’ According to van Parijs and van der Veen, communism:

... is defined by the distribution principle “From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs” - which implies at least that the social product is distributed in such a way (1) that everyone's basic needs are adequately met, and (2) that each individual's share is entirely independent of his or her (freely provided) labor contribution.

Full communism is achieved when people’s contribution to production has no influence at all over the distribution. In this kind of society people freely choose the kind of work they do based on how intrinsically rewarding it is, rather than on how much it pays. In this way alienation is overcome.

According to this view, a UBI helps move society towards full communism by pushing up the price of intrinsically unrewarding work while making it possible for people to take low-paid work that they find rewarding. As American writer Peter Frase explains:

If you extrapolate this trend forward, you reach a situation where all wage labor is gradually eliminated. Undesirable work is fully automated, as employers feel increasing pressure to automate because labor is no longer too cheap. Meanwhile, the wage for desirable work eventually falls to zero, because people are both willing to do it for free, and able to do so due to the existence of a basic income to supply their essential needs.

... The long-run trajectory, therefore, is one in which people come to depend less and less on the basic income, because the things they want and need do not have to be purchased for money. Some things can be produced costlessly and automatically, as 3-D printing and digital copying technologies evolve into something like Star Trek’s replicator. Other things have become the product of voluntary cooperative activity, rather than waged work. It therefore comes to pass that the tax base for the basic income is undermined—but rather than a crisis, as in the hands of basic income critics, this becomes the path to utopia.

Frank wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 10:15am:

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp1617/BasicIncome The ‘capitalist road to communism’—Philippe Van Parijs Some UBI proposals are unashamedly utopian. For example, Robert van der Veen and Philippe Van Parijs envisage a UBI as part of a much broader project of social transformation that ends with full communism and the abolition of alienated wage labour. In a 1986 paper, van der Veen and Van Parijs proposed that a basic income could be a step along ‘a capitalist road to communism.’ According to van Parijs and van der Veen, communism: ... is defined by the distribution principle “From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs” - which implies at least that the social product is distributed in such a way (1) that everyone's basic needs are adequately met, and (2) that each individual's share is entirely independent of his or her (freely provided) labor contribution. Full communism is achieved when people’s contribution to production has no influence at all over the distribution. In this kind of society people freely choose the kind of work they do based on how intrinsically rewarding it is, rather than on how much it pays. In this way alienation is overcome. According to this view, a UBI helps move society towards full communism by pushing up the price of intrinsically unrewarding work while making it possible for people to take low-paid work that they find rewarding. As American writer Peter Frase explains: If you extrapolate this trend forward, you reach a situation where all wage labor is gradually eliminated. Undesirable work is fully automated, as employers feel increasing pressure to automate because labor is no longer too cheap. Meanwhile, the wage for desirable work eventually falls to zero, because people are both willing to do it for free, and able to do so due to the existence of a basic income to supply their essential needs. ... The long-run trajectory, therefore, is one in which people come to depend less and less on the basic income, because the things they want and need do not have to be purchased for money. Some things can be produced costlessly and automatically, as 3-D printing and digital copying technologies evolve into something like Star Trek’s replicator. Other things have become the product of voluntary cooperative activity, rather than waged work. It therefore comes to pass that the tax base for the basic income is undermined—but rather than a crisis, as in the hands of basic income critics, this becomes the path to utopia.

This isn't really the goal, no.  We would still have jobs, and people with jobs would still have more money

That's the dole, isn't it?  You have to understand how economics actually works before coming at this idea.... forget the theories.... they haven't worked yet.

Someone tell Grappy that UBI has been trialed in India and other places to great success.  I can't be bothered talking to the tnuc

https://media0.giphy.com/media/9E5wP1RiPvnos/giphy.gif

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 10:42am:

Someone tell Grappy that UBI has been trialed in India and other places to great success.  I can't be bothered talking to the tnuc

That's why India still has so many in poverty and/or in subsistence farming fighting off the asps ..... so easy...

Do I keep ignoring Grappy or do I shame his ignorant BS on a thread I started? It's too easy, everyone can see he's an idiot.

Ignored

Son - you are THE walking shame - you couldn't shame a dog turd mouldering on a footpath left by its ill-mannered owner.

I mean, it is INTERESTING that this level of stalking and abuse is not against the forum rules when right wing trash do it?

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 11:26am:

I mean, it is INTERESTING that this level of stalking and abuse is not against the forum rules when right wing trash do it?

Your man-crush on Graps is obvious, but your desperate need for his approval is rather pathetic. ::) 

Belgarion wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 11:33am:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 11:26am: I mean, it is INTERESTING that this level of stalking and abuse is not against the forum rules when right wing trash do it? Your man-crush on Graps is obvious, but your desperate need for his approval is rather pathetic. ::)

Because I ignore him? His crush on me is plain for all to see....

Belgarion wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 11:33am:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 11:26am: I mean, it is INTERESTING that this level of stalking and abuse is not against the forum rules when right wing trash do it? Your man-crush on graps is obvious, but your desperate need for his approval is rather pathetic. ::)

Like a badly trained child he is happy to receive any attention he can get... it's what he's used to and he's co-dependent on abuse from seniors even when it is mild abuse compared to what his Nazi parents did to him... I blame those Belgians.... for his kind of problem it is but a step to building gas chambers for seniors...

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 11:35am:

Belgarion wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 11:33am: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 11:26am: I mean, it is INTERESTING that this level of stalking and abuse is not against the forum rules when right wing trash do it? Your man-crush on Graps is obvious, but your desperate need for his approval is rather pathetic. ::)  Because I ignore him? His crush on me is plain for all to see....

Why you is just flying in my shadow and catching my farts... but you're a big bruiser, you say - and imagine that intimidates people...... there are people around who could take you down badly in under two seconds... you do know that, don't you?  Just an infant throwing his weight around and needing to boast to prop up a failed ego.

I blame those Belgians for what they did to you..

Belgarion wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 11:33am:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 11:26am: I mean, it is INTERESTING that this level of stalking and abuse is not against the forum rules when right wing trash do it? Your man-crush on Graps is obvious, but your desperate need for his approval is rather pathetic. ::)

See? He constantly claims to be my 'master', posts about me all day and masturbates about nonsense like gas chambers.  He's deranged.....

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 11:38am:

Belgarion wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 11:33am: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 11:26am: I mean, it is INTERESTING that this level of stalking and abuse is not against the forum rules when right wing trash do it? Your man-crush on Graps is obvious, but your desperate need for his approval is rather pathetic. ::)  See? He constantly claims to be my 'master', posts about me all day and masturbates about nonsense like gas chambers.  He's deranged.....

I am your master, and I have to report to the head monk/lama that I can make no progress with you.

I see random did a mothra and hit and run... slipped into the teflon coat and got out of Dodge once challenged.... another throwaway account... so you're currently all alone with your fantasies, abuse and put-downs in place of debate....

Of course - to you debate is what you put on dehook to try to catch defish..... how's the fishing going?

See, MisterEikhart - this is what happens when I try to start discussion.  This moron derails it with his tears

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 11:51am:

I am your master, and I have to report to the head monk/lama that I can make no progress with you.

You need to tone it down. All this 'master' stuff...

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 11:55am:

See, MisterEikhart - this is what happens when I try to start discussion.  This moron derails it with his tears

It's not tears, something else is going on.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 11:56am:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 11:51am: I am your master, and I have to report to the head monk/lama that I can make no progress with you. You need to tone it down. All this 'master' stuff...

Why?

Only in the sense that I am his spiritual guide - he ignores it... along with several others here.

I am his superior in every game he seeks to play.... he but a journeyman among artists.

Look at his 'bonobo' insanity, for example - he imagines, in his own little mind, that this upsets people and puts them down and him in a dominant position... the reality is that people laugh at him and such insane utterances show what a crass and stupid individual he is in reality, not to mention his clear psychiatric problems that drive him to such things in the first place.

At least he doesn't own firearms.... just imagine...

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 11:59am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 11:56am: Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 11:51am: I am your master, and I have to report to the head monk/lama that I can make no progress with you. You need to tone it down. All this 'master' stuff... Only in the sense that I am his spiritual guide - he ignores it... along with several others here. I am his superior in every game he seeks to play.... he but a journeyman among artists.

Well, that may be your take on it, but it reads more like something psychosexual.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 11:56am:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 11:55am: See, MisterEikhart - this is what happens when I try to start discussion.  This moron derails it with his tears It's not tears, something else is going on.

It's mental illness.  He's deeply triggered I won't play with him any more.  It shows he is nothing

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 12:01pm:

Well, that may be your take on it, but it reads more like something psychosexual.

Can I point out that I tried to talk about a UBI and you two made it about your sex fantasies? The OPPOSITE of what you claimed happens?

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 12:04pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:01pm: Well, that may be your take on it, but it reads more like something psychosexual. Can I point out that I tried to talk about a UBI and you two made it about your sex fantasies? The OPPOSITE of what you claimed happens?

I made a comment, with regards to interactions with FTLW, about the theme of someone's posts, not about a sex fantasy.

What you must realise is that you've been typecast here. You might have to close down FTLW.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 12:09pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:04pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:01pm: Well, that may be your take on it, but it reads more like something psychosexual. Can I point out that I tried to talk about a UBI and you two made it about your sex fantasies? The OPPOSITE of what you claimed happens? I made a comment, with regards to interactions with FTLW, about the theme of someone's posts, not about a sex fantasy. What you must realise is that you've been typecast here. You might have to close down FTLW.

Because you're sex creeps? Unlikely.

"it reads more like something psychosexual."

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 12:01pm:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 11:59am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 11:56am: Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 11:51am: I am your master, and I have to report to the head monk/lama that I can make no progress with you. You need to tone it down. All this 'master' stuff... Only in the sense that I am his spiritual guide - he ignores it... along with several others here. I am his superior in every game he seeks to play.... he but a journeyman among artists. Well, that may be your take on it, but it reads more like something psychosexual.

Only if the person seeing it that way has some inclination that way.... I don't live in that kind of inner world ....  there is no sexual dominance aspect to it .... I am but the humble teacher ... he the headstrong grasshopper no-hoper.

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 12:15pm:

I am but the humble teacher

No. You're too fixated for that.

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 12:14pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:09pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:04pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:01pm: Well, that may be your take on it, but it reads more like something psychosexual. Can I point out that I tried to talk about a UBI and you two made it about your sex fantasies? The OPPOSITE of what you claimed happens? I made a comment, with regards to interactions with FTLW, about the theme of someone's posts, not about a sex fantasy. What you must realise is that you've been typecast here. You might have to close down FTLW. Because you're sex creeps? Unlikely. "it reads more like something psychosexual."

Well - you're the one constantly lusting after masturbating bonobos and ranting about trannies ... never heard anyone else carry on that way here.... so clearly your upbringing has left some serious psychosexual imprints on you .... have you ever sought help?  It's never too late........... given the right help and guidance you could safely transition to being a sane adult human being.

https://c.tenor.com/tVnItm3u4ywAAAAC/requiem-for-a-dream-shock-therapy.gif

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 12:14pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:09pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:04pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:01pm: Well, that may be your take on it, but it reads more like something psychosexual. Can I point out that I tried to talk about a UBI and you two made it about your sex fantasies? The OPPOSITE of what you claimed happens? I made a comment, with regards to interactions with FTLW, about the theme of someone's posts, not about a sex fantasy. What you must realise is that you've been typecast here. You might have to close down FTLW. Because you're sex creeps? Unlikely. "it reads more like something psychosexual."

How does it read to you?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 12:18pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:14pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:09pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:04pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:01pm: Well, that may be your take on it, but it reads more like something psychosexual. Can I point out that I tried to talk about a UBI and you two made it about your sex fantasies? The OPPOSITE of what you claimed happens? I made a comment, with regards to interactions with FTLW, about the theme of someone's posts, not about a sex fantasy. What you must realise is that you've been typecast here. You might have to close down FTLW. Because you're sex creeps? Unlikely. "it reads more like something psychosexual." How does it read to you?

Second page and has any functional human discussed UBI? I think there was one comment?

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 12:19pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:18pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:14pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:09pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:04pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:01pm: Well, that may be your take on it, but it reads more like something psychosexual. Can I point out that I tried to talk about a UBI and you two made it about your sex fantasies? The OPPOSITE of what you claimed happens? I made a comment, with regards to interactions with FTLW, about the theme of someone's posts, not about a sex fantasy. What you must realise is that you've been typecast here. You might have to close down FTLW. Because you're sex creeps? Unlikely. "it reads more like something psychosexual." How does it read to you? Second page and has any functional human discussed UBI? I think there was one comment?

Yes. You may have to close down FTLW.

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 12:17pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:14pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:09pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:04pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:01pm: Well, that may be your take on it, but it reads more like something psychosexual. Can I point out that I tried to talk about a UBI and you two made it about your sex fantasies? The OPPOSITE of what you claimed happens? I made a comment, with regards to interactions with FTLW, about the theme of someone's posts, not about a sex fantasy. What you must realise is that you've been typecast here. You might have to close down FTLW. Because you're sex creeps? Unlikely. "it reads more like something psychosexual." Well - you're the one constantly lusting after masturbating bonobos and ranting about trannies ... never heard anyone else carry on that way here.... so clearly your upbringing has left some serious psychosexual imprints on you .... have you ever sought help?  It's never too late........... given the right help and guidance you could safely transition to being a sane adult human being. https://c.tenor.com/tVnItm3u4ywAAAAC/requiem-for-a-dream-shock-therapy.gif

https://c.tenor.com/tVnItm3u4ywAAAAC/requiem-for-a-dream-shock-therapy.gif

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 12:20pm:

Yes. You may have to close down FTLW.

All of this is your response to me correcting your lies about trans kids.  Why would I close my account because the right are scum? If I closed it, why would I bother creating another? You're all nothing. This place is merely funny

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 12:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:20pm: Yes. You may have to close down FTLW. All of this is your response to me correcting your lies about trans kids.  Why would I close my account because the right are scum? If I closed it, why would I bother creating another? You're all nothing. This place is merely funny

Be a man... confess what you did, and I'll give you a chance.... close your account... do the honourable thing... you know you've lost every bout and have sunk into a nasty mire of evil thoughts and words against others... time to man up.....

The lies about trans kids are being exposed as we speak... and all those self-appointed Frankenstein Mengele Dahmers are being brought to heel... won't change what they've done to countless young and impressionable kids who will never be whole again...

Good God, man - what can you be thinking?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 12:20pm:

Yes. You may have to close down FTLW.

Does this tnuc ever shut up?

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 12:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:20pm: Yes. You may have to close down FTLW. All of this is your response to me correcting your lies about trans kids.  Why would I close my account because the right are scum? If I closed it, why would I bother creating another? You're all nothing. This place is merely funny

And here we are - trans, 'right-wing scum'.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 12:32pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:21pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:20pm: Yes. You may have to close down FTLW. All of this is your response to me correcting your lies about trans kids.  Why would I close my account because the right are scum? If I closed it, why would I bother creating another? You're all nothing. This place is merely funny And here we are - trans, 'right-wing scum'.

LOL!!!

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 12:35pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:32pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:21pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:20pm: Yes. You may have to close down FTLW. All of this is your response to me correcting your lies about trans kids.  Why would I close my account because the right are scum? If I closed it, why would I bother creating another? You're all nothing. This place is merely funny And here we are - trans, 'right-wing scum'. LOL!!!

Only took you a small number of posts.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 12:36pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:35pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:32pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:21pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:20pm: Yes. You may have to close down FTLW. All of this is your response to me correcting your lies about trans kids.  Why would I close my account because the right are scum? If I closed it, why would I bother creating another? You're all nothing. This place is merely funny And here we are - trans, 'right-wing scum'. LOL!!! Only took you a small number of posts.

Grappy was here crying instantly lol

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 12:42pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:36pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:35pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:32pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:21pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:20pm: Yes. You may have to close down FTLW. All of this is your response to me correcting your lies about trans kids.  Why would I close my account because the right are scum? If I closed it, why would I bother creating another? You're all nothing. This place is merely funny And here we are - trans, 'right-wing scum'. LOL!!! Only took you a small number of posts. Grappy was here crying instantly lol

You post about ignoring him, but... y'know...

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 12:45pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:42pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:36pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:35pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:32pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:21pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:20pm: Yes. You may have to close down FTLW. All of this is your response to me correcting your lies about trans kids.  Why would I close my account because the right are scum? If I closed it, why would I bother creating another? You're all nothing. This place is merely funny And here we are - trans, 'right-wing scum'. LOL!!! Only took you a small number of posts. Grappy was here crying instantly lol You post about ignoring him, but... y'know.

I do mostly ignore him.  Honeslty sometimes he makes accusations I feel would reflect badly on me not to answer.  Sometimes I need to write *something* to get past the glitch.  But I honestly don't even click on threads if he is the last reply

taker mentality.

what can i take
what can i get

any man who bounces out of bed with taker mentality as his basic mode of being is out of sync with source energy.

you have to give first before you take.

this is a law of nature.

UBI is as un natural as it comes.

it goes against evolution which is the basis of nature.

if you reward taker mentality you will get more takers

its very important that takers remain losers and dont get taken up in sexual selection.

this is the case now.

no chick is hunting for a mate in a queue at centrelink

she wants that awesome sperm from the guy who gives of his gifts...the rock star, the football player, the entrepreneur, the guy who wont be a needy little parasite in her life, women are repulsed by lazy men and clingy little takers . and thank god for that

we really need to breed out the taker gene before it takes us down

aquascoot wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 1:14pm:

taker mentality. what can i take what can i get any man who bounces out of bed with taker mentality as his basic mode of being is out of sync with source energy. you have to give first before you take. this is a law of nature. UBI is as un natural as it comes. it goes against evolution which is the basis of nature. if you reward taker mentality you will get more takers its very important that takers remain losers and dont get taken up in sexual selection. this is the case now. no chick is hunting for a mate in a queue at centrelink she wants that awesome sperm from the guy who gives of his gifts...the rock star, the football player, the entrepreneur, the guy who wont be a needy little parasite in her life, women are repulsed by lazy men and clingy little takers . and thank god for that we really need to breed out the taker gene before it takes us down

This is the typical right wing nonsense.  Humans are more than economic units of production

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 12:45pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:42pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:36pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:35pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:32pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:21pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:20pm: Yes. You may have to close down FTLW. All of this is your response to me correcting your lies about trans kids.  Why would I close my account because the right are scum? If I closed it, why would I bother creating another? You're all nothing. This place is merely funny And here we are - trans, 'right-wing scum'. LOL!!! Only took you a small number of posts. Grappy was here crying instantly lol You post about ignoring him, but... y'know...

Yep...he posts utter cr@p.

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 3:25pm:

Yep...he posts utter cr@p.

Tell me my income again

AHAHHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 3:31pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 3:25pm: Yep...he posts utter cr@p. Tell me my income again AHAHHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!

AGAIN? Have you forgotten already??? In fact you keep forgetting how old you are too. Don't worry about YOUR FUTURE...it will be fully protected by your dementia.

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 3:37pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 3:31pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 3:25pm: Yep...he posts utter cr@p. Tell me my income again AHAHHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!! AGAIN? Have you forgotten already??? In fact you keep forgetting how old you are too. Don't worry about YOUR FUTURE...it will be fully protected by your dementia.

I know what I earn.  Tell me your fantasy again

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 3:45pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 3:37pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 3:31pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 3:25pm: Yep...he posts utter cr@p. Tell me my income again AHAHHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!! AGAIN? Have you forgotten already??? In fact you keep forgetting how old you are too. Don't worry about YOUR FUTURE...it will be fully protected by your dementia. I know what I earn.  Tell me your fantasy again

I don't need to tell you anything. Your incessant insanity says it all. You chronically forget your age AND your income as well as YOUR assets ...every bloody week!

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 3:25pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:45pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:42pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:36pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:35pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:32pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:21pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:20pm: Yes. You may have to close down FTLW. All of this is your response to me correcting your lies about trans kids.  Why would I close my account because the right are scum? If I closed it, why would I bother creating another? You're all nothing. This place is merely funny And here we are - trans, 'right-wing scum'. LOL!!! Only took you a small number of posts. Grappy was here crying instantly lol You post about ignoring him, but... y'know... Yep...he posts utter cr@p.

Like you?

Jovial Monk wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 3:48pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 3:25pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:45pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:42pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:36pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:35pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:32pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:21pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:20pm: Yes. You may have to close down FTLW. All of this is your response to me correcting your lies about trans kids.  Why would I close my account because the right are scum? If I closed it, why would I bother creating another? You're all nothing. This place is merely funny And here we are - trans, 'right-wing scum'. LOL!!! Only took you a small number of posts. Grappy was here crying instantly lol You post about ignoring him, but... y'know... Yep...he posts utter cr@p. Like you?

Oh look everyone ... it's the other old boomer of OzPol afflicted with the same illness that Future has ie dementia.

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 8:56am:

Who here is against a UBI? Why?  Productivity means we can make most things people need without most people working.  Our choice is a world where more and more people starve b/c there is no work or a brighter future where work is a choice.  The latter also doens't work for infinite growth, which is destroying the planet

I am on a welfare payment to supplement a poverty-level income. I do not see why people who do nothing should get paid more than I do for my part-time work. To qualify for welfare, I have to do a job search and stay job ready with micro-courses and other training (paid for by the government) in addition to the TAFE and university courses I have already completed.

To pay people to sit around and do nothing is just charity without reciprocity. Unless I have the idea of a universal basic income wrong.

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 10:55am:

Do I keep ignoring Grappy or do I shame his ignorant BS on a thread I started? It's too easy, everyone can see he's an idiot. Ignored

But he does have you there. India is not an economic model of affluence. They have a billion people living in poverty

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 4:20pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 10:55am: Do I keep ignoring Grappy or do I shame his ignorant BS on a thread I started? It's too easy, everyone can see he's an idiot. Ignored But he does have you there. India is not an economic model of affluence. They have a billion people living in poverty

Which is precisely why a UBI trial was done there to work out if it was effective in lifting people out of poverty without taking away incentive to work.  That's WHY they did it there LOL

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 4:15pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 8:56am: Who here is against a UBI? Why?  Productivity means we can make most things people need without most people working.  Our choice is a world where more and more people starve b/c there is no work or a brighter future where work is a choice.  The latter also doens't work for infinite growth, which is destroying the planet I am on a welfare payment to supplement a poverty-level income. I do not see why people who do nothing should get paid more than I do for my part-time work. To qualify for welfare, I have to do a job search and stay job ready with micro-courses and other training (paid for by the government) in addition to the TAFE and university courses I have already completed. To pay people to sit around and do nothing is just charity without reciprocity. Unless I have the idea of a universal basic income wrong.

The point of a UBI is that I would get it.  Everyone would get it.  No one would get more than you, you have a job and would end up with more

All those onerous requirements would go away.  That's half the point.  The cost of policing those requirements is a net saving here

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 4:32pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 4:15pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 8:56am: Who here is against a UBI? Why?  Productivity means we can make most things people need without most people working.  Our choice is a world where more and more people starve b/c there is no work or a brighter future where work is a choice.  The latter also doens't work for infinite growth, which is destroying the planet I am on a welfare payment to supplement a poverty-level income. I do not see why people who do nothing should get paid more than I do for my part-time work. To qualify for welfare, I have to do a job search and stay job ready with micro-courses and other training (paid for by the government) in addition to the TAFE and university courses I have already completed. To pay people to sit around and do nothing is just charity without reciprocity. Unless I have the idea of a universal basic income wrong. The point of a UBI is that I would get it.  Everyone would get it.  No one would get more than you, you have a job and would end up with more All those onerous requirements would go away.  That's half the point.  The cost of policing those requirements is a net saving here

That is why it is a daft idea. It's extra income for the well off and sit down money for the idle.

The rubbish and shopping trolley will still need to collected, the abbatoir will need to continue working, grandma's nappy in the nursing home will still need to be changed.

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 3:47pm:

I don't need to tell you anything. Your incessant insanity says it all. You chronically forget your age AND your income as well as YOUR assets ...every bloody week!

I understand you have dementia but I have told you why I lied about my age.  I've never misrepresented my income

Frank wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 9:40pm:

That is why it is a daft idea. It's extra income for the well off and sit down money for the idle. The rubbish and shopping trolley will still need to collected, the abbatoir will need to continue working, grandma's nappy in the nursing home will still need to be changed.

There are not enough jobs.  Jobs are ending all the time.  There is nothing for the 'idle' to do.  And yes, those jobs will exist and working people will have more money, by default.

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 7:34am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 3:47pm: I don't need to tell you anything. Your incessant insanity says it all. You chronically forget your age AND your income as well as YOUR assets ...every bloody week! I understand you have dementia but I have told you why I lied about my age.  I've never misrepresented my income

So, it's the old 'I was lying then, but not now', eh!

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 10:42am:

Someone tell Grappy that UBI has been trialed in India and other places to great success.  I can't be bothered talking to the tnuc

India? ;D ;D ;D ;D The disparity between rich & poor there is vast ...... and still driven by a class/caste system.

As I said Graps is a useful tnuc .... you're a dead tnuc

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 11:26am:

I mean, it is INTERESTING that this level of stalking and abuse is not against the forum rules when right wing trash do it?

Hypocrite

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 4:31pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 4:20pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 10:55am: Do I keep ignoring Grappy or do I shame his ignorant BS on a thread I started? It's too easy, everyone can see he's an idiot. Ignored But he does have you there. India is not an economic model of affluence. They have a billion people living in poverty Which is precisely why a UBI trial was done there to work out if it was effective in lifting people out of poverty without taking away incentive to work.  That's WHY they did it there LOL

It obviously wasn't a success.

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 10:41am:

That's the dole, isn't it?  You have to understand how economics actually works before coming at this idea.... forget the theories.... they haven't worked yet.

No, it's NOT 'the dole'.

Not even remotely similar.

Why is this the 'go to' reaction from right-whingers every time this subject is discussed?

Kat wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 9:45am:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 10:41am: That's the dole, isn't it?  You have to understand how economics actually works before coming at this idea.... forget the theories.... they haven't worked yet. No, it's NOT 'the dole'. Not even remotely similar. Why is this the 'go to' reaction from right-whingers every time this subject is discussed?

It's money for nothing. Other people's money.

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 12:19pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:18pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:14pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:09pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:04pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:01pm: Well, that may be your take on it, but it reads more like something psychosexual. Can I point out that I tried to talk about a UBI and you two made it about your sex fantasies? The OPPOSITE of what you claimed happens? I made a comment, with regards to interactions with FTLW, about the theme of someone's posts, not about a sex fantasy. What you must realise is that you've been typecast here. You might have to close down FTLW. Because you're sex creeps? Unlikely. "it reads more like something psychosexual." How does it read to you? Second page and has any functional human discussed UBI? I think there was one comment?

First rule of debate, according to many here - if you've got no valid argument, then either deflect, or attack your opponent.

Kat wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 9:45am:

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 10:41am: That's the dole, isn't it?  You have to understand how economics actually works before coming at this idea.... forget the theories.... they haven't worked yet. No, it's NOT 'the dole'. Not even remotely similar. Why is this the 'go to' reaction from right-whingers every time this subject is discussed?

Will you be posting your take on UBI?

Kat wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 9:50am:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:19pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:18pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:14pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:09pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:04pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:01pm: Well, that may be your take on it, but it reads more like something psychosexual. Can I point out that I tried to talk about a UBI and you two made it about your sex fantasies? The OPPOSITE of what you claimed happens? I made a comment, with regards to interactions with FTLW, about the theme of someone's posts, not about a sex fantasy. What you must realise is that you've been typecast here. You might have to close down FTLW. Because you're sex creeps? Unlikely. "it reads more like something psychosexual." How does it read to you? Second page and has any functional human discussed UBI? I think there was one comment? First rule of debate, according to many here - if you've got no valid argument, then either deflect, or attack your opponent.

I take it you are referring to FTLW.

Frank wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 9:40pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 4:32pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 4:15pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 8:56am: Who here is against a UBI? Why?  Productivity means we can make most things people need without most people working.  Our choice is a world where more and more people starve b/c there is no work or a brighter future where work is a choice.  The latter also doens't work for infinite growth, which is destroying the planet I am on a welfare payment to supplement a poverty-level income. I do not see why people who do nothing should get paid more than I do for my part-time work. To qualify for welfare, I have to do a job search and stay job ready with micro-courses and other training (paid for by the government) in addition to the TAFE and university courses I have already completed. To pay people to sit around and do nothing is just charity without reciprocity. Unless I have the idea of a universal basic income wrong. The point of a UBI is that I would get it.  Everyone would get it.  No one would get more than you, you have a job and would end up with more All those onerous requirements would go away.  That's half the point.  The cost of policing those requirements is a net saving here That is why it is a daft idea. It's extra income for the well off and sit down money for the idle. The rubbish and shopping trolley will still need to collected, the abbatoir will need to continue working, grandma's nappy in the nursing home will still need to be changed.

And all those things will still get done.

You have a totally skewed concept of what a UBI is, and how it works.

I guess it basically (see what I did there?) stems from the completely
erroneous idea that it somehow comes from YOUR pocket and/or that
YOU are somehow missing-out while 'dole bludgers' somehow get a
windfall.

It doesn't, and you don't.

Frank wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 9:48am:

Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 9:45am: Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 10:41am: That's the dole, isn't it?  You have to understand how economics actually works before coming at this idea.... forget the theories.... they haven't worked yet. No, it's NOT 'the dole'. Not even remotely similar. Why is this the 'go to' reaction from right-whingers every time this subject is discussed? It's money for nothing. Other people's money.

Utterly clueless, aren't you?

That's just another example of a typical, knee-jerk reaction so favoured by the Right
when it comes to things they fear will benefit others.

You really don't understand the concept, and have obviously not bothered to try.

If you did, you wouldn't post rubbish like that.

Kat wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:04am:

Utterly clueless, aren't you? That's just another example of a typical, knee-jerk reaction so favoured by the Right when it comes to things they fear will benefit others. You really don't understand the concept, and have obviously not bothered to try. If you did, you wouldn't post rubbish like that.

So, no take on UBI yourself, just ad homs.

Deflection, knee-jerk much?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 9:55am:

Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 9:45am: Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 10:41am: That's the dole, isn't it?  You have to understand how economics actually works before coming at this idea.... forget the theories.... they haven't worked yet. No, it's NOT 'the dole'. Not even remotely similar. Why is this the 'go to' reaction from right-whingers every time this subject is discussed? Will you be posting your take on UBI?

My 'take' is the same as it's always been, and which I've stated often in the 13 years I've
been a member here.

As long as it's not a 'dole-level' payment (ie, it MUST be enough to live independently on)
and doesn't involve jumping through compliance hoops to be eligible, then I'm in favour.

Kat wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:04am:

Frank wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 9:48am: Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 9:45am: Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 10:41am: That's the dole, isn't it?  You have to understand how economics actually works before coming at this idea.... forget the theories.... they haven't worked yet. No, it's NOT 'the dole'. Not even remotely similar. Why is this the 'go to' reaction from right-whingers every time this subject is discussed? It's money for nothing. Other people's money. Utterly clueless, aren't you? That's just another example of a typical, knee-jerk reaction so favoured by the Right when it comes to things they fear will benefit others. You really don't understand the concept, and have obviously not bothered to try. If you did, you wouldn't post rubbish like that.

I posted the parliamentary paper analysing the concept. Have you read it?
https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1665097005/1#1



It is a mechanism to eliminate the need to work in order to live. It will make everything that much more expensive and the poor will be just as poor.
It would be a dole for the lazy, the unemployable,  the lame and pension for the old.  Why you would give UBI to Twiggy Forrest or Harry Tribugoff is unexplained.

Kat wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:11am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 9:55am: Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 9:45am: Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 10:41am: That's the dole, isn't it?  You have to understand how economics actually works before coming at this idea.... forget the theories.... they haven't worked yet. No, it's NOT 'the dole'. Not even remotely similar. Why is this the 'go to' reaction from right-whingers every time this subject is discussed? Will you be posting your take on UBI? My 'take' is the same as it's always been. As long as it's not a 'dole-level' payment (ie, it MUST be enough to live independently on) and doesn't involve jumping through compliance hoops, then I'm in favour.

So, Dole 2.0, then.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:08am:

Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:04am: Utterly clueless, aren't you? That's just another example of a typical, knee-jerk reaction so favoured by the Right when it comes to things they fear will benefit others. You really don't understand the concept, and have obviously not bothered to try. If you did, you wouldn't post rubbish like that. So, no take on UBI yourself, just ad homs. Deflection, knee-jerk much?

Another with very low comprehension skills, I see.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:13am:

Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:11am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 9:55am: Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 9:45am: Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 10:41am: That's the dole, isn't it?  You have to understand how economics actually works before coming at this idea.... forget the theories.... they haven't worked yet. No, it's NOT 'the dole'. Not even remotely similar. Why is this the 'go to' reaction from right-whingers every time this subject is discussed? Will you be posting your take on UBI? My 'take' is the same as it's always been. As long as it's not a 'dole-level' payment (ie, it MUST be enough to live independently on) and doesn't involve jumping through compliance hoops, then I'm in favour. So, Dole 2.0, then.

No.

Not even remotely.

You REALLY are thick, aren't you?

Kat wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:14am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:08am: Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:04am: Utterly clueless, aren't you? That's just another example of a typical, knee-jerk reaction so favoured by the Right when it comes to things they fear will benefit others. You really don't understand the concept, and have obviously not bothered to try. If you did, you wouldn't post rubbish like that. So, no take on UBI yourself, just ad homs. Deflection, knee-jerk much? Another with very low comprehension skills, I see.

So far your 'take' on UBI is a 2 line throwaway that boils down to: UBI is like the dole, only with more money.

Deep, not.

Frank wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:11am:

Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:04am: Frank wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 9:48am: Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 9:45am: Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 10:41am: That's the dole, isn't it?  You have to understand how economics actually works before coming at this idea.... forget the theories.... they haven't worked yet. No, it's NOT 'the dole'. Not even remotely similar. Why is this the 'go to' reaction from right-whingers every time this subject is discussed? It's money for nothing. Other people's money. Utterly clueless, aren't you? That's just another example of a typical, knee-jerk reaction so favoured by the Right when it comes to things they fear will benefit others. You really don't understand the concept, and have obviously not bothered to try. If you did, you wouldn't post rubbish like that. I posted the parliamentary paper analysing the concept. Have you read it? https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1665097005/1#1 It is a mechanism to eliminate the need to work in order to live. It will make everything that much more expensive and the poor will be just as poor. It would be a dole for the lazy, the unemployable,  the lame and pension for the old.  Why you would give UBI to Twiggy Forrest or Harry Tribugoff is unexplained.

But it isn't THEM getting it which bugs you though, is it?

It's the thought that some poor bugger without a job might get something, and the fear that either
you'll miss out or that it will somehow come from your pocket which burns you up, isn't it?

It's just the innate selfishness and self-entitlement of the Right, no more.

Kat wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 9:50am:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:19pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:18pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:14pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:09pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:04pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:01pm: Well, that may be your take on it, but it reads more like something psychosexual. Can I point out that I tried to talk about a UBI and you two made it about your sex fantasies? The OPPOSITE of what you claimed happens? I made a comment, with regards to interactions with FTLW, about the theme of someone's posts, not about a sex fantasy. What you must realise is that you've been typecast here. You might have to close down FTLW. Because you're sex creeps? Unlikely. "it reads more like something psychosexual." How does it read to you? Second page and has any functional human discussed UBI? I think there was one comment? First rule of debate, according to many here - if you've got no valid argument, then either deflect, or attack your opponent.

You do realise that you are exhibiting exactly this behaviour in your own posts?

Kat wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:20am:

But it isn't THEM getting it which bugs you though, is it? It's the thought that some poor bugger without a job might get something, and the fear that either you'll miss out or that it will somehow come from your pocket which burns you up, isn't it? It's just the innate selfishness and self-entitlement of the Right, no more.

So ad homs and mind-reading now.

Do you wear a turban while you post?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:17am:

Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:14am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:08am: Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:04am: Utterly clueless, aren't you? That's just another example of a typical, knee-jerk reaction so favoured by the Right when it comes to things they fear will benefit others. You really don't understand the concept, and have obviously not bothered to try. If you did, you wouldn't post rubbish like that. So, no take on UBI yourself, just ad homs. Deflection, knee-jerk much? Another with very low comprehension skills, I see. So far your 'take' on UBI is a 2 line throwaway that boils down to: UBI is like the dole, only with more money. Deep, not.

Obviously you have neither the intelligence or the comprehension skills to discuss the issue.

Otherwise you'd stop posting your simplistic and skewed idea of what a UBI actually is, and
wouldn't be claiming I said or implied something I did not.

Kat wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:26am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:17am: Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:14am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:08am: Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:04am: Utterly clueless, aren't you? That's just another example of a typical, knee-jerk reaction so favoured by the Right when it comes to things they fear will benefit others. You really don't understand the concept, and have obviously not bothered to try. If you did, you wouldn't post rubbish like that. So, no take on UBI yourself, just ad homs. Deflection, knee-jerk much? Another with very low comprehension skills, I see. So far your 'take' on UBI is a 2 line throwaway that boils down to: UBI is like the dole, only with more money. Deep, not. Obviously you have neither the intelligence or the comprehension skills to discuss the issue. Otherwise you'd stop posting your simplistic and skewed idea of what a UBI actually is, and wouldn't be claiming I said or implied something I did not.

What is your take on UBI (aside from your Dole 2.0)?

Belgarion wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:21am:

Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 9:50am: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:19pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:18pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:14pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:09pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:04pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 12:01pm: Well, that may be your take on it, but it reads more like something psychosexual. Can I point out that I tried to talk about a UBI and you two made it about your sex fantasies? The OPPOSITE of what you claimed happens? I made a comment, with regards to interactions with FTLW, about the theme of someone's posts, not about a sex fantasy. What you must realise is that you've been typecast here. You might have to close down FTLW. Because you're sex creeps? Unlikely. "it reads more like something psychosexual." How does it read to you? Second page and has any functional human discussed UBI? I think there was one comment? First rule of debate, according to many here - if you've got no valid argument, then either deflect, or attack your opponent. You do realise that you are exhibiting exactly this behaviour in your own posts?

No, because I'm not doing that at all.

I just respond to idiots, then watch as they dig themselves a deeper hole
by throwing-off and personal attacks while minimising the subject of a
discussion or ignoring it completely.

Some of you are quite good at it.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:28am:

Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:26am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:17am: Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:14am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:08am: Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:04am: Utterly clueless, aren't you? That's just another example of a typical, knee-jerk reaction so favoured by the Right when it comes to things they fear will benefit others. You really don't understand the concept, and have obviously not bothered to try. If you did, you wouldn't post rubbish like that. So, no take on UBI yourself, just ad homs. Deflection, knee-jerk much? Another with very low comprehension skills, I see. So far your 'take' on UBI is a 2 line throwaway that boils down to: UBI is like the dole, only with more money. Deep, not. Obviously you have neither the intelligence or the comprehension skills to discuss the issue. Otherwise you'd stop posting your simplistic and skewed idea of what a UBI actually is, and wouldn't be claiming I said or implied something I did not. What is your take on UBI (aside from your Dole 2.0)?

I have already answered this question.

And if you persist with this 'Dole 2.0' bullshit, then there is no point
in me either repeating it OR being more specific.

Kat wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:20am:

Frank wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:11am: Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:04am: Frank wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 9:48am: Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 9:45am: Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 10:41am: That's the dole, isn't it?  You have to understand how economics actually works before coming at this idea.... forget the theories.... they haven't worked yet. No, it's NOT 'the dole'. Not even remotely similar. Why is this the 'go to' reaction from right-whingers every time this subject is discussed? It's money for nothing. Other people's money. Utterly clueless, aren't you? That's just another example of a typical, knee-jerk reaction so favoured by the Right when it comes to things they fear will benefit others. You really don't understand the concept, and have obviously not bothered to try. If you did, you wouldn't post rubbish like that. I posted the parliamentary paper analysing the concept. Have you read it? https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1665097005/1#1 It is a mechanism to eliminate the need to work in order to live. It will make everything that much more expensive and the poor will be just as poor. It would be a dole for the lazy, the unemployable,  the lame and pension for the old.  Why you would give UBI to Twiggy Forrest or Harry Tribugoff is unexplained. But it isn't THEM getting it which bugs you though, is it? It's the thought that some poor bugger without a job might get something, and the fear that either you'll miss out or that it will somehow come from your pocket which burns you up, isn't it? It's just the innate selfishness and self-entitlement of the Right, no more.

But the guys without the jobs are already getting paid to keep body and soul together. The disabled, the old ditto.

UBI is a replacement of all other social security payments and subsidies and supplements PLUS  it is to be given to everyone, including the middle class and the rich.

If a flat rate of taxation is no good then what is the good of giving the same amount of money to everyone, regardless of need??

Kat wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:33am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:28am: Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:26am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:17am: Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:14am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:08am: Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:04am: Utterly clueless, aren't you? That's just another example of a typical, knee-jerk reaction so favoured by the Right when it comes to things they fear will benefit others. You really don't understand the concept, and have obviously not bothered to try. If you did, you wouldn't post rubbish like that. So, no take on UBI yourself, just ad homs. Deflection, knee-jerk much? Another with very low comprehension skills, I see. So far your 'take' on UBI is a 2 line throwaway that boils down to: UBI is like the dole, only with more money. Deep, not. Obviously you have neither the intelligence or the comprehension skills to discuss the issue. Otherwise you'd stop posting your simplistic and skewed idea of what a UBI actually is, and wouldn't be claiming I said or implied something I did not. What is your take on UBI (aside from your Dole 2.0)? I have already answered this question. And if you persist with this 'Dole 2.0' bullshit, then there is no point in me either repeating it OR being more specific.

No, you haven't. I don't think you have any idea about UBI except mo' money.

I think  society started to go down hill when competition was removed from schools.

No winners, no losers, everyone got a ribbon for participating.

Everyone thinks a handout is an entitlement.

::)

You need to be careful about arbitrarily labeling people as 'left' or 'right' based on one question of even an established viewpoint on one issue, Kat.

In doing so you are polarising and creating the environment in which one, either 'right' or 'left', must either prevail or fall entirely (be smashed into the ground/gulaged/genocided), and issues will remain unresolved.

You used to be someone I could trust - what's happened to you?

This ridiculous nonsense about a dozen real trannies and a few more borderlines should not be polarising the entire nation - it's a minority issue with no real problems attached to it, other than the clear insanity of those promoting it as an ideology/religion.  NOWHERE are trannies refused medical treatment - no matter how bizarre and totally life-changing with no extradition treaty; nowhere are they refused fundamental rights in our society; nowhere are they actually beaten up on sight other than gay pubs when they fight with core gays; nowhere is anyone preventing them from having a pee, just not with others of clearly the opposite sex and toilets are available for their use... the list goes on and on....  Jesus - there's even an inclusive 'trannie' ad now....

The issues surrounding the All Believed Original Settlers (ABOS) are more complex, but remain only an issue of 3.3% of the population...should an entire nation rise or fall on the demands of each minority?

This country has to stop catering to the whining of minorities.... and Labor is all about minorities including the bizarre 51% minority who are women, and I warned you all not to vote for them - or for the LNP or Greens.

National debt is bad enough now, but UBI would turn fiscal policy into a giant Ponzi scheme. The only way I would vote for it would be if  I could have mine paid into a Swiss bank account. the Labor Party should just admit they want a communist people's republic.

issuevoter wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 1:03pm:

National debt is bad enough now, but UBI would turn fiscal policy into a giant Ponzi scheme. The only way I would vote for it would be if  I could have mine paid into a Swiss bank account. the Labor Party should just admit they want a communist people's republic.

Well - they do want to install Indigenous Gauleiters...

historical
a political official governing a district under Nazi rule.
"he was appointed Gauleiter of Danzig"

No real difference in overall effect between a Communist or a Nazi state... both rule the people, those who are but cattle in the fields for the use of the state, with an iron fist....

Inside every politician of any stamp are two petty despots striving to get out.....  ;)

No wonder they called me Ming at school... I am merciless to those who have offended me....

Day 1, the dollar is  floating to an international value and will buy X. Day 2, the entire population is given a dollar for nothing. Will it still buy X ? Yes? Send mine to Switzerland anyway.

issuevoter wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 1:38pm:

Day 1, the dollar is  floating to an international value and will buy X. Day 2, the entire population is given a dollar for nothing. Will it still buy X ? Yes? Send mine to Switzerland anyway.

We give people welfare now.  That money pours into the economy.

issuevoter wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 1:03pm:

National debt is bad enough now, but UBI would turn fiscal policy into a giant Ponzi scheme. The only way I would vote for it would be if  I could have mine paid into a Swiss bank account. the Labor Party should just admit they want a communist people's republic.

Labor is sadly right wing.  A UBI is workable for a number of reasons.  Of course we'd need to tax the rich

Captain Nemo wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 11:09am:

I think  society started to go down hill when competition was removed from schools. No winners, no losers, everyone got a ribbon for participating. Everyone thinks a handout is an entitlement. ::)

It's interesting that old people have told this lie about schools as long as I can remember

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:44am:

Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:33am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:28am: Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:26am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:17am: Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:14am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:08am: Kat wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:04am: Utterly clueless, aren't you? That's just another example of a typical, knee-jerk reaction so favoured by the Right when it comes to things they fear will benefit others. You really don't understand the concept, and have obviously not bothered to try. If you did, you wouldn't post rubbish like that. So, no take on UBI yourself, just ad homs. Deflection, knee-jerk much? Another with very low comprehension skills, I see. So far your 'take' on UBI is a 2 line throwaway that boils down to: UBI is like the dole, only with more money. Deep, not. Obviously you have neither the intelligence or the comprehension skills to discuss the issue. Otherwise you'd stop posting your simplistic and skewed idea of what a UBI actually is, and wouldn't be claiming I said or implied something I did not. What is your take on UBI (aside from your Dole 2.0)? I have already answered this question. And if you persist with this 'Dole 2.0' bullshit, then there is no point in me either repeating it OR being more specific. No, you haven't. I don't think you have any idea about UBI except mo' money.

I've read in depth studies on UBI roll outs.  I know why they are both viable and the only path to a decent future

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 3:11pm:

Labor is sadly right wing.  A UBI is workable for a number of reasons.  Of course we'd need to tax the rich

Are you sure you haven't had hemispheric brain trauma?

You see everything with agency as only coming from the right.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 3:19pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 3:11pm: Labor is sadly right wing.  A UBI is workable for a number of reasons.  Of course we'd need to tax the rich Are you sure you haven't had hemispheric brain trauma? You see everything with agency as only coming from the right.

I did not mention the right, old man. 

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 3:32pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 3:19pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 3:11pm: Labor is sadly right wing.  A UBI is workable for a number of reasons.  Of course we'd need to tax the rich Are you sure you haven't had hemispheric brain trauma? You see everything with agency as only coming from the right. I did not mention the right, old man.

As highlighted.

Now, about that brain trauma...

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 3:36pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 3:32pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 3:19pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 3:11pm: Labor is sadly right wing.  A UBI is workable for a number of reasons.  Of course we'd need to tax the rich Are you sure you haven't had hemispheric brain trauma? You see everything with agency as only coming from the right. I did not mention the right, old man.  As highlighted.

They are.  My main comment is we'd need to tax the rich . I find when campaigning for the greens, it's easy to point out to labor voting old people that Labor do not represent them any more

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 8:56am:

Who here is against a UBI? Why?  Productivity means we can make most things people need without most people working.  Our choice is a world where more and more people starve b/c there is no work or a brighter future where work is a choice.  The latter also doens't work for infinite growth, which is destroying the planet

Rod Sims AO is against the UBI, because he perceives the value of paid participation, and the extra taxation collected.

He notes it's very expensive to fund an above poverty UBI.   

Re the highlighted: yes, there is now no lack of food, resources and productivity  which would  require people to live in poverty/homelessness in Oz. (The situation in some countries is more complex, and international aid will be required for a period).

But greedy comfortable conservatives - satisfied with the current neoliberal orthodoxy (low taxes, privatization, small governement) reject more equitable sharing of resources.

That's where Rod comes a cropper: higher taxes to fund  employment programs in caring industries, and to convert volunteerism into paid work, are politically toxic.

MMT and its Job Guarantee offers an alternative solution, to trying to wring taxes out of a stone, ....and  the online doctorate level studies in MMT have finally begun this year. In a few years we will have MMT Doctors in Economics taking it up to the mainstream media with their go-to clowns, instead of the current crop of neo-liberal, neo-classicists  ruling the waves.

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 7:34am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 3:47pm: I don't need to tell you anything. Your incessant insanity says it all. You chronically forget your age AND your income as well as YOUR assets ...every bloody week! I understand you have dementia but I have told you why I lied about my age.  I've never misrepresented my income

How old are you this week?

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 4:50pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 7:34am: Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 3:47pm: I don't need to tell you anything. Your incessant insanity says it all. You chronically forget your age AND your income as well as YOUR assets ...every bloody week! Christ you're all dumb I understand you have dementia but I have told you why I lied about my age.  I've never misrepresented my income How old are you this week?

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 4:50pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 7:34am: Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 3:47pm: I don't need to tell you anything. Your incessant insanity says it all. You chronically forget your age AND your income as well as YOUR assets ...every bloody week! I understand you have dementia but I have told you why I lied about my age.  I've never misrepresented my income How old are you this week?

Notice how he/she/it is unable to answer you? The answer depends totally on who is sitting in the id right now. The unhinged nutters who sit in the Future id are shift workers covering online cyber multi troll shifts - full time on a rotating roster. 😐

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 8:56am:

Who here is against a UBI? Why?  Productivity means we can make most things people need without most people working.  Our choice is a world where more and more people starve b/c there is no work or a brighter future where work is a choice.  The latter also doens't work for infinite growth, which is destroying the planet

Oh? they will just make it all in China and no Australian will ever need to work.

Watch Africans and Asians flooding in.

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:15pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 4:50pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 7:34am: Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 3:47pm: I don't need to tell you anything. Your incessant insanity says it all. You chronically forget your age AND your income as well as YOUR assets ...every bloody week! I understand you have dementia but I have told you why I lied about my age.  I've never misrepresented my income How old are you this week? Notice how he/she/it is unable to answer you? The answer depends totally on who is sitting in the id right now. The unhinged nutters who sit in the Future id are shift workers covering online cyber multi troll shifts - full time on a rotating roster. 😐

I have told my age several times.  Now I have accepted you are both mentally ill and mentally incompetent, and I point at you and laugh.

Frank wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:24pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 8:56am: Who here is against a UBI? Why?  Productivity means we can make most things people need without most people working.  Our choice is a world where more and more people starve b/c there is no work or a brighter future where work is a choice.  The latter also doens't work for infinite growth, which is destroying the planet Oh? they will just make it all in China and no Australian will ever need to work. Watch Africans and Asians flooding in.

We currently only take in people who can work in jobs we require, and a small number of refugees.  So this would change nothing. 

Frank wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:24pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 8:56am: Who here is against a UBI? Why?  Productivity means we can make most things people need without most people working.  Our choice is a world where more and more people starve b/c there is no work or a brighter future where work is a choice.  The latter also doens't work for infinite growth, which is destroying the planet Oh? they will just make it all in China and no Australian will ever need to work. Watch Africans and Asians flooding in.

Looks like you're out of your depth here, too.

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 9^th, 2022 at 8:32am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:15pm: UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 4:50pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 7:34am: Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 3:47pm: I don't need to tell you anything. Your incessant insanity says it all. You chronically forget your age AND your income as well as YOUR assets ...every bloody week! I understand you have dementia but I have told you why I lied about my age.  I've never misrepresented my income How old are you this week? Notice how he/she/it is unable to answer you? The answer depends totally on who is sitting in the id right now. The unhinged nutters who sit in the Future id are shift workers covering online cyber multi troll shifts - full time on a rotating roster. 😐 I have told my age several times.  Now I have accepted you are both mentally ill and mentally incompetent, and I point at you and laugh.

Yes Dufus you have told us your age several times. And each time your age was out by 10 to 15 years. Your income and assets also change. Don't worry though ... at least your passwords are well protected. By your dementia. 😂😆🤣

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 9^th, 2022 at 11:33am:

Yes Dufus you have told us your age several times. And each time your age was out by 10 to 15 years. Your income and assets also change. Don't worry though ... at least your passwords are well protected. By your dementia. 😂😆🤣

Lisa , instead of joining the above puerile pile-on, why don't you  display your wisdom and offer some ideas for achieving full employment (...there are still 600K long term unemployed) and ending homelessness. 

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:15pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 4:50pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 7:34am: Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 3:47pm: I don't need to tell you anything. Your incessant insanity says it all. You chronically forget your age AND your income as well as YOUR assets ...every bloody week! I understand you have dementia but I have told you why I lied about my age.  I've never misrepresented my income How old are you this week? Notice how he/she/it is unable to answer you? The answer depends totally on who is sitting in the id right now. The unhinged nutters who sit in the Future id are shift workers covering online cyber multi troll shifts - full time on a rotating roster. 😐

says a survival of the fittest RWNJ.

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 12:37pm:

This country has to stop catering to the whining of minorities.... and Labor is all about minorities including the bizarre 51% minority who are women, and I warned you all not to vote for them - or for the LNP or Greens.

Labor is the same as the Coalition, fighting for the 'aspirational vote' to get elected; that's why Chalmers says he can't lift jobseeker payment to above-poverty level, while sucking up to the mddle class, so much so he supports the stage 3 tax cuts which will overwhelming benefit the wealthy...regardless of middle class "aspiration". 

One of the worst things about UBI is that it allows, even encourages,  people to be drones.  It is universal sit down money.   I do not see how able bodied working age people getting it should have any civil rights like the vote or any say whatsoever in how society is run - after all they would be not contributing to ijit in any way.  They would effectively admit to being totally useless to society.
The needy are supported already by various social security payments. Whether those are sufficient is a different matter, nothing to do with UBI.

Frank wrote on Oct 9^th, 2022 at 4:47pm:

One of the worst things about UBI is that it allows, even encourages,  people to be drones.  It is universal sit down money.   I do not see how able bodied working age people getting it should have any civil rights like the vote or any say whatsoever in how society is run - after all they would be not contributing to ijit in any way.  They would effectively admit to being totally useless to society. The needy are supported already by various social security payments. Whether those are sufficient is a different matter, nothing to do with UBI.

mostly correct, but as FTLW said at the start, there are not enough secure jobs in the current neoliberal job market, which is very demanding re skills actually possessed by the long-term unemployed - partly the result of Coalition  governments defunding TAFE and relying on skilled overseas workers, instead of training Oz workers....a policy also assisting Oz wealth creation via  the Oz private housing ponzi, via ever increasing demand for housing, in a low interest rate environment  (in which savers couldn't earn a quid on their savings).

Frank wrote on Oct 9^th, 2022 at 4:47pm:

One of the worst things about UBI is that it allows, even encourages,  people to be drones.  It is universal sit down money.

If we all get this UBI then we can give up our jobs sit around all day doing SFA.

Then who will pay the taxes to give everyone sit down money?

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 3:32pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 3:19pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 3:11pm: Labor is sadly right wing.  A UBI is workable for a number of reasons.  Of course we'd need to tax the rich Are you sure you haven't had hemispheric brain trauma? You see everything with agency as only coming from the right. I did not mention the right, old man.

You never stop mentioning the right.

You lying shyte.

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 9^th, 2022 at 6:16pm:

Frank wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 4:47pm: One of the worst things about UBI is that it allows, even encourages,  people to be drones.  It is universal sit down money.   I do not see how able bodied working age people getting it should have any civil rights like the vote or any say whatsoever in how society is run - after all they would be not contributing to ijit in any way.  They would effectively admit to being totally useless to society. The needy are supported already by various social security payments. Whether those are sufficient is a different matter, nothing to do with UBI. mostly correct, but as FTLW said at the start, there are not enough secure jobs in the current neoliberal job market, which is very demanding re skills actually possessed by the long-term unemployed - partly the result of Coalition  governments defunding TAFE and relying on skilled overseas workers, instead of training Oz workers....a policy also assisting Oz wealth creation via  the Oz private housing ponzi, via ever increasing demand for housing, in a low interest rate environment  (in which savers couldn't earn a quid on their savings).

And how the bloody hell is UBI the answer to all that, then, Polly Parrot??

Frank wrote on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 8:16am:

And how the bloody hell is UBI the answer to all that, then, Polly Parrot??

it isn't. I'm not in favour of a UBI; i'm in favour of a job guarantee, there is always some socially useful work to be done - organized at the local council level, which can be funded by the central government (either by taxes*, or by direct central bank money creation).

*the henry tax review fully explored efficient and fair taxes, but politicians are too cowardly to adopt the proposals; so we see albo caving in  before dutton, handing around $100 billion to the wealthiest tax payers over the next decade.

You of course are happy to point to the negatives of a UBI, but will not consider elimination of the dole, which is mostly claimed by the long-term unemployed unable to find work in the current competive job-market.


i see my points about the Coalition defunding TAFE in favor of bringng in trained workers from overseas, thus supporting the Oz housing ponzi which has resulted in decreasing home ownership rates in favor of the rent-seekers, were not appreciated by you.....

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:15pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 4:50pm: FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 7:34am: Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 3:47pm: I don't need to tell you anything. Your incessant insanity says it all. You chronically forget your age AND your income as well as YOUR assets ...every bloody week! I understand you have dementia but I have told you why I lied about my age.  I've never misrepresented my income How old are you this week? Notice how he/she/it is unable to answer you? The answer depends totally on who is sitting in the id right now. The unhinged nutters who sit in the Future id are shift workers covering online cyber multi troll shifts - full time on a rotating roster. 😐

I doubt that Future is any older than 25 years of age. The tone of his posts and his incessant use of "HAHAHAHAHAAAA!" as a response to people give me an idea of his lack of maturity. He knows enough about the world that he can assume some degree of understanding. But, if he is so obsessed with ultra-left-wing radical ideas, he probably no older than 25. When you reach 30 years of age and you have been paying taxes for a number of years, paying off rent or a mortgage, and assuming the burden of your living expenses and raising children, you tend to take a more centrist viewpoint.

53-year-olds have had life experience in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s to have developed a sense of who they are before the end of the 20th century. The 22nd year of the new century would have given any middle aged man every reason to be jaded. Given the enthusiasm of Future and his obsession with keyboard warrior attacks against the right-wing, you would have to assume that Future is not yet experienced in the ugliness of the world.

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 9^th, 2022 at 8:32am:

I have told my age several times.  Now I have accepted you are both mentally ill and mentally incompetent, and I point at you and laugh.

Earlier:

Quote:

I understand you have dementia but I have told you why I lied about my age.

You lied about your age. But you won't give a definitive honest answer.

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 10^th, 2022 at 5:32pm:

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 8:32am: I have told my age several times.  Now I have accepted you are both mentally ill and mentally incompetent, and I point at you and laugh. Earlier: Quote: I understand you have dementia but I have told you why I lied about my age. You lied about your age. But you won't give a definitive honest answer.

You are just mentally deficient.  I was clear, the only thing I ever lied about was my age, in case some of my stalkers were here and worked out it was me.  I came clean and explained why I did it.

FTLW, in all this time I have read your posts, one thing is conspicuously difficult to understand about you. You say you have stalkers. Yet, you have no trouble registering on a discussion forum with your details (email address) and stories about stalkers and the circumstances surrounding why they are stalking you (and how they do it).

Meanwhile, a point about your age gets raised, and you lie about it. I still do not know how old you are. Not very old, judging by the naive tone of your postings. The thing is, if you are such an age, it won't make a difference to a stalker if you disclose your age anonymously on a forum. It might make a difference to them if you allow them to track your online movements with details about what went on in your alleged victimhood.

For me, I have had stalkers. Some of them have read my posts on other sites. But, if I had stalkers today that were causing me considerable grief, I would not be posting at all. No comments about what I have done. No comments about what I will do. I would keep my opinions to myself about various things and only use the internet for work, commercial and entertainment purposes. Just no discussions. And I have had my time when I had to shut the hell up about things for a while, as being truthful would have landed me in legal limbo.

I do not need your date of birth. I do not need to know where you live. I do not need to know your financial situation. But a rough estimate of your age down to a year either side of the truth would put into context your mindset and the credibility of whether you could have done something at some point in the past.

UnSubRocky wrote on Oct 12^th, 2022 at 12:30pm:

FTLW, in all this time I have read your posts, one thing is conspicuously difficult to understand about you. You say you have stalkers. Yet, you have no trouble registering on a discussion forum with your details (email address) and stories about stalkers and the circumstances surrounding why they are stalking you (and how they do it). Meanwhile, a point about your age gets raised, and you lie about it. I still do not know how old you are. Not very old, judging by the naive tone of your postings. The thing is, if you are such an age, it won't make a difference to a stalker if you disclose your age anonymously on a forum. It might make a difference to them if you allow them to track your online movements with details about what went on in your alleged victimhood. For me, I have had stalkers. Some of them have read my posts on other sites. But, if I had stalkers today that were causing me considerable grief, I would not be posting at all. No comments about what I have done. No comments about what I will do. I would keep my opinions to myself about various things and only use the internet for work, commercial and entertainment purposes. Just no discussions. And I have had my time when I had to shut the hell up about things for a while, as being truthful would have landed me in legal limbo. I do not need your date of birth. I do not need to know where you live. I do not need to know your financial situation. But a rough estimate of your age down to a year either side of the truth would put into context your mindset and the credibility of whether you could have done something at some point in the past.

I am 53.  I've said this over and over LOL

The point would be if I gave details and they put them together, the age might throw them off.  Duh

They are not causing me grief TBH.  I mock them when they pop up.  It's just tiresome and derails my ability to participate.

And I refuse to be silenced or cowed by these scum.  When it was at it's worst I encouraged them to come find me so we could end it.  I don't back down

Given everything I say I get told I am lying, I am not trying to convince anyone of anything lol :)

FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Oct 12^th, 2022 at 12:52pm:

I am 53.  I've said this over and over LOL The point would be if I gave details and they put them together, the age might throw them off.  Duh They are not causing me grief TBH.  I mock them when they pop up.  It's just tiresome and derails my ability to participate. And I refuse to be silenced or cowed by these scum.  When it was at it's worst I encouraged them to come find me so we could end it.  I don't back down Given everything I say I get told I am lying, I am not trying to convince anyone of anything lol :)

You can say it over and over all you want. But, you act like you are 23. And that is an immature 23. If your identity is compromised by stating your age, you do not need to give an age. In fact, you do not need to post anything until your issues are cleared up. Even then, you might get yourself a new stalker or two.

And law enforcement could use your provocation against us as a reason why they should not believe you in your personal issues with your alleged stalkers.