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General Discussion >> General Board >> The Australian Wars - Culture is Life http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1662899102 Message started by Yadda on Sep 11th, 2022 at 10:25pm |
Title: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Yadda on Sep 11th, 2022 at 10:25pm
We all have noticed, that Australian Aboriginals have/exhibit a lot of cultural pride.
To me, it looks like an intent, ....to re-write Australian Aboriginal history. Not so ? And now its all about the 'Australian Wars'. A story/narrative for TV which won't be presented to us, in anything but the unvarnished truth, about the noble Aboriginal resistance to the White invaders. And no racial vilification will be presented ? Just a truthful history story, to bring the Australian nation together ? .....just like President Biden promised [in 2020], in the U.S. IMAGE..... The Australian Wars - Culture is Life In recognition of the documentary’s immense educational value, Blackfella Films and SBS Learn will collaborate with Culture is Life to publish curriculum-aligned education resources about the Frontier Wars. https://www.cultureislife.org/education/resources/the-australian-wars/ |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Brian Ross on Sep 11th, 2022 at 11:57pm
About time some truth came to Australian interaction with the Indigenous peoples and their resistance to white colonialism. The Australian War Memorial has resisted telling this version of Australian history for over three or more decades that I am aware of. Shame, really. ::)
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Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Boris on Sep 12th, 2022 at 12:24am
Bollocks
Blood thirsty murdering savages that raped murdered and ate children |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Yadda on Sep 12th, 2022 at 7:01am Brian Ross wrote on Sep 11th, 2022 at 11:57pm:
To my mind, in the MSM, and on our screens, we witness the WOKE Aboriginal cultural pride 'enablers', speak about 'truth telling'. And then they themselves, proceed to avoid all 'truth telling'.... And will proceed to heap [all] blame upon non-Aboriginal Australia for every social problem and failing within their own communities, while appearing to deny all responsibility themselves, for, the violence, the corruption, the crime, the murderous community [family] feuding, and much social distress which many of their communities suffer from. Its just wrong, imo. When we continually see many spokesmen and women for their community, pretending, to non-Aboriginal Australia, that there is so much to be proud about in Aboriginal culture. When the [present day, and historic] lived truth, is so often displaying, the exact opposite. . Bill Leak cartoon. ...WITH SATIRE AS 'RACISM' #1 #2 https://www.abc.net.au/cm/lb/8030512/data/bill-leak-cartoon-in-the-australian-data.png #3 |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Yadda on Sep 12th, 2022 at 7:19am Brian Ross wrote on Sep 11th, 2022 at 11:57pm:
WWW search...... JACINTA PRICE is a truth teller, in the Australia aboriginal community .....and what has been Jacinta Price's reward, [from many in her own community] for 'walking in the light' ? Answer; ...DEATH THREATS. God bless and protect, brave and truthful, Jacinta Price. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Yadda on Sep 12th, 2022 at 7:46am We all miss Bill Leak's wit and truth, ....well, many of us do. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by random on Sep 12th, 2022 at 7:54am Yadda wrote on Sep 12th, 2022 at 7:46am:
The cartoon above is dumb as bugger, like you. Only dumb fuks use the WOKE term. Woke means educated, something you are not. Dumb fuks hate educated people. All that 'book learnin' stuff. Who do they think they are? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 12th, 2022 at 9:36am
Frontier Wars?
They came - they saw - they were conquered............... 'resistance' is a farcical term to use for groups that had the overall organisational skill of a group of gnats... Get Over It! A minority will not rule this country. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 12th, 2022 at 9:38am
"Woke means educated, something you are not"
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D "Woke" means thinking that your ideas are the only correct ones... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 12th, 2022 at 10:28am random wrote on Sep 12th, 2022 at 7:54am:
Your Cert III doesn't make you 'educated', Predictable. Nor your workery (which doesn't mean 'educated', as every schoolboy knows). i |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 12th, 2022 at 12:09pm
Well - culture is life - except for Australian or Wharte culture....
Country's gone to the dogs.... time to call a halt and start again with a new plan.... They Came - They Saw - They Were Conquered... time to move on... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by random on Sep 12th, 2022 at 12:42pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 12th, 2022 at 12:09pm:
We did move on, now Morison has be fukked off. Geeezze that was so sweet. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Captain Caveman on Sep 12th, 2022 at 1:56pm random wrote on Sep 12th, 2022 at 7:54am:
Woke is the term used for the extremist left wing factor of society hell bent on creating a communist state and bringing the west, and everything that's got them to where they are, to its knees. front bottoms of humans really. The same people to scream racist, bigot, right winger or any other "wokist" term at anyone who disagrees with their agenda. Basically the woke are the asylum nutters that don't get locked up anymore because some woke moron closed down the asylums. ;D ;D ;D Here you go.... WOKE. https://youtu.be/guYc12MHqH4 |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Brian Ross on Sep 12th, 2022 at 2:27pm Boris wrote on Sep 12th, 2022 at 12:24am:
The history exists? Therefore it deserves to be told. You seek to deny anything you disagree with, Matty. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::) |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 12th, 2022 at 2:29pm Brian Ross wrote on Sep 12th, 2022 at 2:27pm:
Many histories exist - they all deserve to be told ..... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Boris on Sep 12th, 2022 at 3:18pm
Blood thirsty murdering savages that raped murdered and ate children
The history exists? Therefore it deserves to be told. Tell the History of children raped, murdered and eaten. Put in the Constitution - make it compulsory |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Yadda on Sep 12th, 2022 at 4:56pm Boris wrote on Sep 12th, 2022 at 3:18pm:
Tell the SBS, ABC, and msm in Australia that these factual cultural traits of many Aboriginals, must be 'spoken about', for the sake of 'truth telling'. They do, really believe in 'truth telling' ? Yes ? .....OR, NOT SO ? Or are such current 'truth telling' declarations by the LEFTISTS only an act of WOKE posturing, in order to use it as a 'stick', with which to attack ['Whitey'] traditional, conservative, cultural Australian values [like an open examination of wrongdoing, truth telling, and proper social accountability of wrongdoing] ? Bill Leak cartoon. ...WITH SATIRE AS 'RACISM' IMAGE..... . WWW search...... JACINTA PRICE is a truth teller, in the Australia aboriginal community .....and what has been Jacinta Price's reward, [from many in her own community] for 'walking in the light' ? Answer; ...DEATH THREATS. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 12th, 2022 at 5:15pm Brian Ross wrote on Sep 12th, 2022 at 2:27pm:
Er... disagreeing IS about denying the validity of what one disagrees with, Bbwian. You talk about disagreement as if it was an inherently bad thing. Or do you mean only disagreement with Aborigines (or Muslims or [your pet victim group here])? Do you deny the accounts of various European settlers about Aboriginal life and practices? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Yadda on Sep 12th, 2022 at 5:33pm "....the first peoples of Australia, belonged to many different tribal groups, who were continually engaging in many savage wars with the people belonging to adjacent tribes." Not so ? Are these claims not worth an examination, in 'truth telling' ? Yadda said..... http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1548721515/0#0 ------- > geoffrey blainey, continually warring tribes IMAGE..... IMAGE..... The writings of historian Geoffrey Blainey, suggest that prior to the arrival of Europeans, the first peoples of Australia, belonged to many different tribal groups, who were continually engaging in many savage wars with the people belonging to adjacent tribes. If true, prior to the arrival of Europeans, Australia was not a 'a great nation' then, made up of a socially united, and socially cooperating, indigenous people ? QUESTION; Do violent feuds ever occur today, between differing families, of indigenous people ? Or are such conflicts almost unheard of ? /sarc off geoffrey blainey, continually warring tribes https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/books/geoffrey-blainey-takes-fresh-look-at-australias-early-history-20150314-14340n.html A LOT MORE, IN MY OLD POST [LINK IS ABOVE] |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by random on Sep 12th, 2022 at 6:09pm |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by random on Sep 12th, 2022 at 6:12pm Boris wrote on Sep 12th, 2022 at 3:18pm:
That's facinating stuff mate. Got a link for the 'eaten children' claim? I don't mind a good cannibalism story. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Brian Ross on Sep 12th, 2022 at 6:25pm Boris wrote on Sep 12th, 2022 at 3:18pm:
Oh, dearie, dearie, me, Matty. You never present any evidence to back your assertions. Could it be because your spouting Racist bullshit? Surely not? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::) |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Bobby. on Sep 12th, 2022 at 6:30pm
ABC channel 2 TONIGHT
Four Corners The Postcode Wars 8:32PM - 9:19PM CC Street gangs, drugs and organised crime. Grace Tobin has gained extraordinary access to the teenagers who are being drawn into the violence and criminal activities. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by random on Sep 12th, 2022 at 8:01pm Bobby. wrote on Sep 12th, 2022 at 6:30pm:
Funni as ... Booby watching the evil lefty ABC? Amazing what a touch of possible race bashing does! |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by random on Sep 12th, 2022 at 8:03pm random wrote on Sep 12th, 2022 at 6:12pm:
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Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Boris on Sep 13th, 2022 at 7:25am
Aboriginal Child-Eating was / is well known - hundreds of reports from people who witnessed it including Daisy Bates who lived with them.
Its all in the History Books: Pages 122, 124, 125, 139-141 It is evident that numbers of them die in their infancy from want of care and nourishment.” 4 And if the babe did not perish by the hand of its mother immediately after birth, if it did not die prematurely of an illness, more than one danger still lay in ambush for it. And thus, here and there child-murder was committed not only from necessity but also for reasons of mere gluttony. The existence of this eating of children is testified to by all too numerous facts:5 6 7 Mowbray relates that he personally found in the basin of the river Mitchell the aborigines roasting and eating their own children.0 When a child looks well, is “well-fed” or “fat”, it may happen that one of the men, or even the whole community, murders it for cannibalistic purposes in the absence of its mother. It has even occurred that if the mother, fearing for the life of her child, would not leave the camp, she would be induced to go out¬ side on some pretext or other and her absence taken advantage of.' We do not think that such cannibalism was common, though there are many references to it, but even those infrequent cases had some effect on the growth of the population, in view of the small size of the tribe. (Another factor has more influence: children were killed during long journeys. At such times carrying the children became burdensome to the mother, especially in conjunc¬ tion with being short of provisions.)1 It was only in periods of drought and famine that child-eating assumed large proportions. That which in the ordinary course of events was somebody’s caprice, became then a general practice. “It is during these trying times that parents are obliged to resort to extreme measures, so that they may sustain the lives of their children. Driven to the verge of despair, and visibly moved at the thought of it, a father must occasionally make the decision to slay one child in order that another may be saved.”2 In hard summers the new-born child¬ ren seem to be all eaten in the Kaura tribe — A. W. Howitt infered this from remarkable gaps that appeared in the ages of the children.3 4 * 6 7 It even came to that, as in the Birria tribe during the years 1876 — ’77, in the drought, not only were all the infants devoured, but even the younger grown children.1 However, in some tribes this practice appeared, even in a normal period, not to be so very rare. At least, if the gossip that circulated among the tribes were to be believed, cannibalism was even more extensive than we suppose. For instance, one tribe relates of another that it marks at birth those infants which are to be eaten later on;'1 again, the children of some women were always killed and eaten as soon as they got fat enough.3 According to Machattie, a tribe numbering 250 souls when the Europeans came, during six years ate seven children, i.e., about 5% of its whole population.' Sometimes the eating of children was the result of superstition — a mother restored her health with the blood or flesh of her own child. It is perhaps from such a reason that the practices of the Polish peasants in the dis¬ trict of Tykocin originate: if the woman’s pains in her confine¬ ment do not cease, she is given “navel-drink,” i. e., a glass of vodka, with which is mingled a thimbleful of blood from the navel and to which some salt is also added.1 3. We must ultimately arrive at the conclusion that even a small but constant and general increase in the population of Aus¬ tralia was almost out of . the question. But the great mortality of children (and infanticide) was not the sole cause of this, as the following review of the influences at work will show: a) A young girl, often very young and hardly out of child¬ hood, would he given to a husband who in many cases would be considerably older than she. In Tasmania, a gray-headed old man possessed three wives aged respectively thirty, seventeen and ten years.2 Such families probably were by no means uncommon in Australia. In many cases the difference in age between husband and wife was so great that it necessarily had to react adversely on the fertility of the woman. Again with the early marriage of a girl, especially if the husband were an old man, the first child was often weak and frail and so was doomed to an early death under Australian conditions. https://archive.org/details/b29980112/page/138/mode/2up |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Boris on Sep 13th, 2022 at 7:27am
Cannibalism is practised by all natives on the north coast with whom I have come in contact, with the exception of a very small tribe inhabiting the immediate neighbourhood of Port Essington … The eating of grown-up people—that is, of natives—is, as far as I can ascertain, not practised. Only children of tender age—up to about two years old—are considered fit subjects for food, and if they fall ill are often strangled by the old men, cooked, and eaten, and all parts except the head, which is skinned and buried, are considered a delicacy. Parents eat their own children, and all, young and old, partake of it. The only instance I have heard where grown-up people have been eaten, was that of two Europeans who were out exploring in the neighbourhood of the Tor Rock, about forty miles inland from Mount Norris Bay; this was in 1874. These unfortunate travellers were, according to the statements of the friendly natives, killed by the ‘Tor Rock’ tribe, cooked and eaten; and from my own knowledge of the natives in that neighbourhood I have no reason to doubt this statement to be correct.” (P. Foelsche, “Notes on the Aborigines of North Australia”, in Transactions of the Royal Society of South Australia, vol. 5, 1882.)
“The natives to the south eat human flesh. It is said that they engage in regular human hunting parties for this purpose … It is even said that they roast and eat their own infants, if they succeed each other too quickly. Only last year a woman not far from here did it, and when reproved for so doing, by means of an interpreter (for they speak a different language), she was surprised at being found fault with, as she considered the roasting and eating of her own child as something quite natural.” (Rev. Louis Schulze, missionary, “The Aborigines of the Upper and Middle Finke River: Their Habits and Customs”, in Transactions of the Royal Society of South Australia, vol. 14, 1891.) |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Boris on Sep 13th, 2022 at 7:29am
There are literally hundreds of accounts of Aboriginal cannibalism, dating from the first European settlement in Australia to the 1930s or even later. These accounts were made in all the states and territories of Australia with the possible exception of Tasmania. They were written by witnesses and commentators from a wide variety of backgrounds who wrote in many genres—newspaper articles; autobiographies, many not meant for publication; court reports; scholarly proceedings, as in the accounts quoted above. They were written by persons not in contact with one another, often hundreds of kilometres apart, and having no knowledge of the accounts made by other white Australians, and whose veracity, when they wrote on other topics, would not be questioned.
Reports of Aboriginal cannibalism comprised a significant component of works on Aboriginal society down to the 1950s or even later. Since then they have vanished from all depictions of Aboriginal society, and, if asserted today, would be regarded as the embodiment of racism, and dismissed out of hand. These old and frank depictions of Aboriginal society have been replaced by their opposite: veneration for the indigenous inhabitants of Australia and their society as utopian and pristinely moral, and any trace of the endemic and nightmarishly barbaric world inhabited by the Aborigines found by virtually all early observers here has been totally erased, its depiction as fact wholly taboo. I can assure you I lived many years in the NT and Cannibalism was occurring in Arnhem Land when I first went to the NT as a lad. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Boris on Sep 13th, 2022 at 7:30am
“Mr Willshire declares that infanticide is a very common crime among the natives, and that lubras [Aboriginal women] as a rule kill off their surplus offspring, two being considered a full family. A sable matron once owned to him that she had killed three of her five children immediately after birth, and remarked, ‘me bin keep em one boy one girl, no good keep em mob, him too much wantem tuckout’.” — Review of W.H. Willshire’s The Aborigines of Central Australia, in the South Australian Register, May 14, 1889.
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Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Sep 13th, 2022 at 7:45am random wrote on Sep 12th, 2022 at 7:54am:
;D You're looking in a mirror typing that yeah? You're as dumb as phuuck if you believe being woke is being educated. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by issuevoter on Sep 13th, 2022 at 7:54am
There were plenty of documented massacres in the 19th century, and a few short sharp skirmishes, the most organised being Black Mountain against the Kalkadoons, and Battle Camp, west of Cooktown, but to call them "Wars" is pure hyperbole.
The problem with these interpretations of history, is the influence of American Westerns, and to some extent films like Zulu that dramatised the actual wars against comparatively sophisticated and inventive indigenous cultures. Dampier's estimation cannot be dismissed. He saw them before any of this happened. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Xavier on Sep 13th, 2022 at 7:59am Yadda wrote on Sep 11th, 2022 at 10:25pm:
Fantastic Picture that! It's 'true' - Black Man owns the Land. White Man has to go 'Down Under' and own the Waters. Suffering Depression and feeling Beyond Blue with all this Black Dog guilt hanging around you neck for being White and Australian? Well fear not! Help is at hand, just get you scuba ticket and grab you underwater gear and jump into that Billabong - WHERE YOU F*UCKING BELONG!!!! >:( >:( >:( |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Yadda on Sep 13th, 2022 at 11:40am Jasin wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 7:59am:
Oh dear ! Someone is upset, .....about open discussion, and the examination of current social issues. Jasin, For the sake of 'social harmony' in Australia, people like Yadda should be excluded from public forums. No freedom, no liberty, is worth having to hear things which we do not want to hear. [sarc off] Jasin, Not a relative of Robert Mugabe are you ? Robert Mugabe, as the President of Zimbabwea, had people that upset him, fed to the local crocodiles. [true!] . Proverbs 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people. "Glory follows virtue as if it were its shadow." - Marcus Tullius Cicero, Roman Statesman To ignore evil is to become an accomplice to it. - Martin Luther King, Jr. "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." - Martin Luther King, Jr. Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed; everything else is public relations. - George Orwell "If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell "The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." - George Orwell "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell [even if this quote is mis-attributed to Orwell, the pursuit of truth remains a great virtue] . AN ARGUMENT IN SUPPORT OF FREE AND OPEN DEBATE ----- > Yadda said..... Quote:
. AN ARGUMENT IN SUPPORT OF FREE AND OPEN DEBATE ----- > something i posted on another public forum; Quote:
. AN ARGUMENT IN SUPPORT OF FREE AND OPEN DEBATE ----- > this is what i once posted on the ABC Q&A online forum.... Quote:
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Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Boris on Sep 13th, 2022 at 12:14pm
Anyone seen this?
I have Many many times https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11204905/Alice-Springs-child-abuse-horror-man-40-charged-forcing-four-young-kids-oral-sex.html |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Sep 13th, 2022 at 12:23pm issuevoter wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 7:54am:
The Kalkadoons come from around Mt. Isa & Cloncurry ..there were 2 retaliatory confrontations agianst them, 1 at Battle Mountain(Mt. Remarkable) nwest of Cloncurry near Kajabbi in 1884 where an est. 200 Aboriginals were shot. The other Kalkadoon in 1879 in the Selwyn Ranges(could be the place north of Dajarra called Black Mountain) near Dajarra after an incident at Wonomo Waterhole south of Dajarra. Est 300 Aboriginals shot. The Kalakadoons were known as a fearsome warriors. The Battle Camp incident happened in 1873 on the road to the Palmer River Gold fields - where 80 to 150 Aboriginals of the Guuju- Warra language group were shot at a place they called Surprise Lagoon. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Boris on Sep 13th, 2022 at 12:56pm
On page 464 of his journal A New Voyage Around The World, Dampier wrote that Aboriginal Australians were the "miserabilist" people he had ever seen, "differing little from brutes".
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Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 13th, 2022 at 11:06pm
I note that word 'retaliatory' - so again these were not policies of genocide... they were retaliation for things done to settlers.
This is the most common theme. Some here justify it on the ground that it was their country.... well - maybe the actual small bit they were on at the time..... but a new game was in town.... sorry 'bout that. "That's three percent of your land claim, Jackie Jackie..... to reflect your overall presence in the community of modern Australia... share and share alike, innit? I feel I may be on to THE policy for land handing..... nice claim - here's your 3% - there's the 97% for the rest.... no more claims from your group will be entertained.... **closes shutter** .... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 13th, 2022 at 11:32pm Jasin wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 7:59am:
Black Man don't own it no more - all bought and paid for - they need to now do the same or just step aside. Give each family a house block and that's it. Make or break on your own steam. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 13th, 2022 at 11:37pm
Stick to Postcode Wars - you'll find they are all Usual Suspects - no need to overlap and drag the Abos into another one as well......
All nonsense and turd polishing anyway.... "Defending their homeland" ..... a very Pascoesque way of defining a few incidents... As for you lot and your 'voice' - I have discussed this elsewhere and the Aboriginal women side with my views on the likely outcomes.... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by issuevoter on Sep 14th, 2022 at 2:24pm Gnads wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 12:23pm:
Thanks for the details. There is a contemporary account of Battle Camp in River of Gold by Holthouse. These were the northeastern people who carried shields and wooden swords. In Black and White by Chambers there is a most harrowing reference to the practice of dashing the babies' brains out against a tree to save the expense of powder and shot. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 14th, 2022 at 4:34pm issuevoter wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 2:24pm:
Yes - a rather ancient and primitive approach. Saves on Stealing Generations though I suppose. Doubt I could come at that kind of thing, but hey - times were different... though not universally.. Would you snipe a kid handed a knife and about to behead someone? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Brian Ross on Sep 21st, 2022 at 11:03pm
Just watched episode one. The Australian Wars seems like a reasonable programme. It has thus far put it's case well. I intend to watch the rest of the series. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by issuevoter on Sep 21st, 2022 at 11:06pm
As a period piece, it should be judged on how believable the use of dirt is, if any.
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Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by mothra on Sep 21st, 2022 at 11:09pm Brian Ross wrote on Sep 21st, 2022 at 11:03pm:
Yeah it was great. Most of it was covered in the fabulous 'First Australians' series from a few years back ... which i highly recommend to anyone who genuinely want to know a little of the history of our country. Problem is, it's always preaching to the converted. None of the idiots on this thread will watch it, guaranteed. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 1:10am mothra wrote on Sep 21st, 2022 at 11:09pm:
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Pure Lefty-ism.... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by AusGeoff on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 5:09am Boris wrote on Sep 12th, 2022 at 12:24am:
It's of interest Boris that you've made this claim numerous times here, but with absolutely no evidence supporting it. You've also claimed that Aboriginals were killing and eating their kids to this day. Again with not a single iota of evidence. It's now time to either put up or shut up. Which will it be? Credible evidence, or an admission of a repeated untruth? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 8:22am
Bit 'ard to make any war out of it when any group, according to the first episode, had no more than twenty men to do the fighting.
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Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by mothra on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 8:26am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 8:22am:
Proof you didn't watch it. Nor have you seen or read anything on the subject hitherto not watching this. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 8:37am mothra wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 8:26am:
Here we go with the mindless assertions again..... clearly you didn't watch it. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by mothra on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 8:45am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 8:37am:
Oh i watched it alright. That's how i know you claim of only 20 warriors is a lie. But as i already said, not much of it was new to me. You didn;t though. Or at least you watched the first 10 minutes then thought you were being made to feel guilty so switched it off. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 8:52am mothra wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 8:45am:
Utter nonsense as usual. The hero at the Battle of Parramatta - cited as the first big fight - assembled 100 or so blokes, with the program stating clearly that groups had usually no more then twenty - meaning his feat of organisation was outstanding for the time. No army - no war.... just a few skirmishes... and BTW - a small group going to war on a bigger and better armed one is doomed to lose. Might win a couple here or there but the cost was always prohibitive in the end, and meanwhile there are drawings around the 1840's of Abos living in Sydney... or did you imagine all those claimants to Goat Island just wandered back in after being driven out two hundred years ago or something? Why would I feel guilty? I've never done a thing to anyone, least of all any Bleck. I'm living on Australian land as a true Indigene having been born here of multiple generations. What is your problem? Spell it out - don't be shy. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by mothra on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 9:02am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 8:52am:
No you idiot. Jesus, that doco was stupid-proof but still you've managed to bugger it up. After years of successful guerrilla warfare, Pemulway gathered about 100 warriors from amongst family groups of about 20 people each to confront the settlers. He was shot and his head chopped off and sent off for good old English posterity. So maybe you did watch it .. you just didn't understand it. I'll bet the farm you didn't watch it all the way through. Not that that would have helped in any event. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 9:27am
Yes, Australia was conquered by the British who proceeded to create a prosperous, peaceful, great country where none existed before. Scattered, disunited, primitive bands of tribal Aborigines never had a chance of resisting or stopping them. Those who took up arms against the British were killed. There is no going back to pre-1788.
Conquest and resistance is the stuff of history. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by mothra on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 9:31am Frank wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 9:27am:
And a history that both deserves and requires accurate retelling and proper representation. So far, this has been an abysmal failure of this country. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 9:36am mothra wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 9:31am:
Both sides or only one? What is your preference? What do you expect to change from re-writing history to include verbal histories? What is there to be gained from it? It's 2022 - time to move on....... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by mothra on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 9:41am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 9:36am:
Not either side. The truth. All verifiable in historic record. But i'm not surprised you're confused. Even when spoon-fed information you still manage to get it all wrong. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 9:44am mothra wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 9:02am:
No you idiot ...... You just said what I said then claimed some moral victory.... so you are happy to admit now that groups had around twenty men at most and one brought them together for one skirmish which he lost? So he gathers 100 blokes and confronts the settlers at Parramatta and you want to cry that he lost the fight? Try again - a dispassionate reading would help:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_of_Indigenous_Australians No war..... not ever. Next week the amazing re-growth from zero of the Tasmanian Aboriginal population which is now percentage wise higher than anywhere else in Australia... true story.... trust me ... Scout's honour.... BTW - I loved all those professors making assertions for which there was no support and for which all documented evidence said differently - it's called 'planned reading in' and brings the academic into disrepute. Perhaps in your infinite wisdom and superiority you could explain to us all exactly what academic standards they use in their determination that what is written is not so, even when it is the only evidence to survive direct from the time. Come in Spinner....... ::) ::) |
Title: still manages to get it so amazingly wrong. Post by mothra on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 9:58am
It simply amazes me that a person can be this wrong. Like, even after allegedly watching an absolutely stupid-proof documentary and then having it explained it him again ... still manages to get it so completely wrong.
There si no debating with this. It is utterly ridiculous. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 10:13am mothra wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 9:31am:
Not at all. There is absolutely no new historical fact or interpretation of fact in this doco. No detail is hidden, no grief is suppressed, no calamity covered up. If anything, triumphs are relegated to the basement and tragedies relentlessly foregrounded. Aborigines can do no wrong, whites can do no right. That story is retold again and again. It's not a true story, no matter how often and earnestly it is repeated. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by mothra on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 10:15am Frank wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 10:13am:
You didn't watch it, did you. And with you always about fault. i suggest that is something particular to you that you should meditate on. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 10:17am |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 10:37am mothra wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 8:26am:
The problem is the lens through which 'personal responsibility' ideologues like Grapps see the world. I invited him to debate his world view in "the voice will be heard " thread (#1117), but apparently it's impossible for him to do so. Such is the human condition.... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 10:46am thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 10:37am:
Debating's done over and over - you simply refuse to see it. Now stop over-using that word to try for some petty moral edge in discussion. Go back and read that strand... it's been explained to you over and over and over and you simply refuse to even discuss it, but choose instead, to turn it into some personal vendetta. You're not the only one, but at least you don't control national policy. Start by answering the questions raised .. stop pontificating that somehow government intervention, tried time and time and time again, is somehow going to resolve all the issues for Abos. It will not happen - and at some point they must take personal responsibility for their own elevation from the gutter. Repeating the same thing over and over won't alter the fact - it's up to them. Seriously it is your worldview you need to take a long, hard look at.... and get out there and sell your ideas to the Abos.... that'll be fun. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by mothra on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 10:54am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 10:46am:
And of course the irony of this post, in this thread, is utterly lost on Crappler. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 10:54am
It's inconceivable to imagine that aboriginal peoples would not have resisted and fought against the usurpation of their land by foreign forces. It's deeply and innately human to defend territory.
What makes it more poignant is the effect the stories of brutal colonisation had on those outside the Australian colonies - from the declaration of terra nullius and its subsequent abuse to clear the land of peoples inhabiting that land, to the transportation of the sewerage of British society (a form of slavery) and the depth of depravity of which both captive and captor were capable. They were chilling and shocking enough prior to 1840, to prompt the settlers, in what was to become New Zealand, to insist that a treaty be signed between the Maori and the British, to ensure Marois did not suffer the same fate as the native peoples in Australia, to which the British imperial authorities agreed. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:01am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 10:54am:
Steer clear of the hyperbole/propaganda. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:07am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 10:46am:
No; debating is done when the issue is resolved - by debate, not by running away as you are now doing - confirming FTLW's contention. Debate your world view with me, coward, you don't simply get to say the debate is done by running away from it. Your asked me for my understanding of your world view, I responded in #1117, in the 'voice will be heard' thread . So get to it, or be exposed as a blind ideologue....and no, I won't retract "coward" until you do. Your present stance is merely revealing the ultimate in closed mindedness from a 'personal responsibility' ideologue. Quote:
Blind ideology, when it's as destructive as yours, needs to be exposed. And now you are crying "personal vendetta" while running away. I say again, defend your world view as identified by me in #1117, or be exposed as a blind ideologue. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:09am mothra wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 10:54am:
Hardly my responsibility that dividie just keeps repeating the same over and over and demanding a response over and over... until the Coons take personal responsibility and get going they will never elevate themselves - and nobody can do it for them. They had chances over and over to develop a skills base to use in their townships and communities - once the training gravy train of cash stopped - so did the effort, and any acquired skills were thrown away. Simple enough. How many of them used that training to become electricians and can fix lecco problems in their communities - instead of expecting the government to send in tradies at huge cost for a simple job? How many of those trained electricians passed down knowledge so that the work was always in control? Same with plumbing and so forth??? Come back, dividie - tell us about the skills learned and then used and passed on through the generations .... just once would be nice instead of evading the question all the time. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:09am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:01am:
Steer clear of guesswork. The Maori tribes were not forced to sign the treaty and not all tribal chiefs signed the treaty, but a majority did. Genocides almost never kill all their victims. Those aboriginals who were subdued or were useful to the colonists, or lived in remote areas where colonists had not reached, would have survived/been spared - hardly a surprise. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:19am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:09am:
Sign or don't sign - no problem.... no sign - no goodies and don't play up anyway. According to the actual figures shown times many - very few were actually killed in conflicts... genocide is a vastly over-rated term for a few frontier fights.... many more died of disease ... are you now going to tell us that Whartey passed around smallpox infected blankets? Pure guesswork to even suggest that only those who were 'subdued' or 'useful' within the Civilised Zones were kept like cattle. You need to review your stance - to "ONLY those who fought/attacked etc were subdued and sometimes killed" ... a totally different outlook. Mothra's hero of Parramatta took a bullet to the head for waving a spear and threatening death to all white men and women and children.... well ...... buggar me!! It seems Whartey didn't go down to the camp and start blowing them all away.... no, no, no - the Hero craftily assembled 100 men and took to centre stage - and lost. Are you as prepared as those Learned Professors to simply say, when looking over a written record, that the reality was not like that - to simply dismiss it as self-serving lies? That all those records were lies, and yet verbal history passed down is 100% accurate and truthful? Chinese Whispers, my son..... did your teacher ever not do that little experiment in class for you? I'll send you three and four pence for the dance then.... ::) |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by mothra on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:22am
You so didn't watch the documentary.
You are just wrong. History will record you as wrong. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:24am mothra wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:22am:
**snores** It's not a documentary - it's a dramatised re-enactment.... ::) ::) ::) |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:25am mothra wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 9:41am:
And the historic record is exclusively from European sources for the first 150 or years. There were no Aboriginal historians and scribes. Still, the European sources are reliable and credible. Nothing is covered up, it has been told, warts and all, many times. There are no Aboriginal archives still to be opened. The truth has been told repeatedly. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by mothra on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:26am Frank wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:25am:
Did you learn anything from the historical records presented in the documentary. Frank? It certainly wasn't anything i was taught at school. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:34am
It's all right, mothra - I'll send you three and four pence because you're going to a dance, too.....
You're happy with Learned Professors with an axe or ten to grind and plenty of dollars and kudos to earn by siding with New City Hall just dismissing written records and saying they are false - all of them - and that differing verbal passed down versions must be 100% correct? What kind of historian does that, may one ask? Spoon fed? I've reviewed the travesty of history being made by those Learned Professors - they are academic charlatans. So - what was different about the Appin Massacre, for example? The redcoats (?) said they called out to the Keffir to surrender - the Keffir say they didn't, though the Keffir knew they were there or might show up and had taken steps to not be where expected .... the redcoats didn't deny - even made a point of - cutting off ears and maybe a head or two. Nasty but nowhere lied about..... So the sole point of contention is - "Did the Redcoats call for surrender or not?" Where then are the lies throughout these histories? And on what basis do these Learned Professors arbitrarily say - to the left - to the right .... one is the historical document gas chamber - the other for those documents that will be put to work.... The New Drs Mengele.... in the flesh.... holding court over historical records and sending those they don;t like to the gas chamber on any pretext .... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:34am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:19am:
In the first 100+ years of colonisation, there was no attempt to preserve the culture or advance the lot of aboriginals in Australia (those who were not eliminated for directly obstructing the colonisation process), which was the norm by colonising empires the world over. The colonists were not driven by an ideological chauvinistic view of aboriginal culture (unlike the American revolutionaries who recorded it in their founding document); it was about the possession of land and resources in a land of terra nullius. However, like pre- and post-revolutionary Americans towards America's native peoples, aboriginals were considered godless savages, which made it less of a moral crisis when it came to clearing the land of them. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by mothra on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:37am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:34am:
Clearing the land of them indeed. Except for the women and children abducted into slavery. It took some time to enslave the men also ... but we got there. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:42am
Why would colonisers preserve the culture? Surely such things are for more settled times and more leisurely jobs than cutting down trees and building houses and farms and such by hand...
Downe At Ye Olde Paddye's Farm:- "You know - I think I'll take a week or so off from building this joint and see what I can find out about the culture of the locals... maybe collect some artefacts for a museum or something." "Oh, Paddy - where are you going to find a museum - and anyway - one day they'll say you stole them things anyway and there's your reputation gone! And we've got sheep to shear and wheat to bring in and a heap of other stuff to do - you can't spend a week or more traipsing the hills looking for some people to talk to who will avoid you anyway - or even try to kill you!" "Yeah - I suppose it was just an idea.... bed-time - big day tomorrow...." |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:44am mothra wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:26am:
Well, let's not talk about your education.... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:47am mothra wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:37am:
Got the look of slaves in 1868 - ready for the cricket tour... cleared 'em right out it seems..... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:50am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:42am:
Yes. Clearing the land for growing and gathering resources for the colonies was the primary objective. Removing those non-European peoples who were already occupying that land was unproblematic as Australia was terra nullius, so, legally, aboriginal peoples did not exist. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:53am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:09am:
Firstly: debate your world view with me, coward, you don't simply get to say 'the debate is done' by running away from it. Your asked me for my understanding of your world view, I responded in #1117, in the 'voice must be heard' thread . Your failure to respond is deafening.... As to "skills learned": we need to establish functional communities first - via practical employment to keep people off the grog, and away from petty crime - which the CDEP proved successful in achieving - before higher level skills can be taught and exploited, impossible in dysfunctional grog- and crime-ravaged communitites. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:59am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:42am:
They wouldn't and they didn't. They ignored it , swept it aside, tried to assimilate it, and of course they couldn't obliterate it. So here we are.... needing to close the gap..... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 12:04pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:50am:
Good points; but all cultures must pass...... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 3:09pm thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:53am:
The debate is done because you refuse to see that others have a different view backed up by knowledge and experience and past failures to bring the Abos into the light, and you persist with your dogmatism about one single thing. Are you autistic? I am under no obligation to debate with you my 'world view' - particularly when you, like so many other half-educated people, seek desperately to lump people into neat little groups when they are nothing of the sort. Your presumptuousness and arrogance are beyond the pale. There is zero reason why any 'voice' MUST be heard - and countless reasons why it must never be heard as you well know by now - it will achieve nothing but division and pain for Aborigines, and will be dominated, as stated to me by a Sydney Aboriginal woman, by the families who use standover etc to gain control in the old, old caveman way... the ones I call The Silverbacks. Coward! You are running away from outlining why there were no skills developed from your fabled CDEP and why those were not carried on. Lastly - the opportunities are there - there are countless special scholarships etc for Indigenous - it is up to them to take them on and actually go with them. Clearly some have taken advantage of opportunity and are now doing very well. Did Stan Grant have any special treatment? Ray Martin? Marcia Langton? You know ...... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 3:19pm
Anyway - you are dragging us all far away from the subject - that argument is finished.
Now get on with this biased re-enactment show (documentary ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ) |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Brian Ross on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 3:28pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 8:22am:
Obviously you didn't watch it. Pemulwray was said to have up to a 100 men in one raiding party. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::) |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Brian Ross on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 3:40pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:50am:
A convenient legal fiction. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::) |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 4:21pm Brian Ross wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 3:40pm:
Why include my quote there? I never mentioned terra nullius... it's a concept in power in the past and has no bearing on today.... it was what it was and nothing can change that now... not one thing to do with preserving any culture, primitive as it was.... Downe At Ye Olde Paddye's Farm:- "You know - I think I'll take a week or so off from building this joint and see what I can find out about the culture of the locals... maybe collect some artefacts for a museum or something." "Oh, Paddy - where are you going to find a museum - and anyway - one day they'll say you stole them things anyway and there's your reputation gone! And we've got sheep to shear and wheat to bring in and a heap of other stuff to do - you can't spend a week or more traipsing the hills looking for some people to talk to who will avoid you anyway - or even try to kill you!" "Yeah - I suppose it was just an idea.... bed-time - big day tomorrow...." |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 4:24pm Brian Ross wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 3:40pm:
A bit more than tsk, tsk, tsk, it was a licence to murder. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Brian Ross on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 4:27pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 4:24pm:
Maybe but there was nothing explicit in it's declaration. It was overturned by the High Court in 1986. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 4:55pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 3:09pm:
No; I wanted you to defend your world view, as identified by me in #1117. We might all learn something; and as for blacks in Oz, failure to close the gap is not an option, the problem is on display to all the world. Quote:
The extremist 'personal responsibility' brigade is indeed a "neat (!) little group".... Quote:
I know a defunct culture cannot be 'resurrected' (though I admit many don't recognise this point); but as noted above, failure to close the gap is not an option. "Get off your arses ...or drink yourselves to death, and be incarcerated at the highest rates of any racial group in the world" is NOT a remedy. Quote:
Er...and blacks as a group aren't experiencing "division and pain" now (cough) ..... Quote:
The voice - and a treaty - are side-shows, sure. Quote:
No, I want to show your world view - and the lens through which you interpret the world, is the problem. Not surprisingly, you don't want to defend your world view.....you could prove me wrong; in the mean time your world view, like that of the CIS (the bastards who are responsible for cancelling the CDEP), is standing in the way of closing the gap. Just another variation on the self-serving conservative dogma which claims poverty cannot be eradicated. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 5:05pm
No - you refuse to see that your worldview is not the only one, regardless of the endless facts that support others.
Now stick with the subject - we all understand your bee in the bonnet about the failed CDEP by now. Tell me in another relevant strand - WHY the Abos are not taking advantage of the opportunities handed to them. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 5:13pm
Now - this clear propaganda piece - not documentary - but a re-enactment with a little revisioneering going on ......
It is clear to date that whenever the natives decided to go to war they were defeated.... so clearly kicking the shins of the stronger power in the land was never a good idea... Love to see how you all react next week when the shorts already show some Wharte guy down and bleeding in agony .. you probably think that was just fine and a 'right' of the Abos.. while you cry about things done to them in retaliation. Again - if they were cleared off the land, how come there were so many locals to claim Goat Island in the heart of Sydney and occupying the primest land in the place? I thought the mantra was they were only given all the sh1t land - sure doesn't seem to be the case when it comes to making claims under The Wharte Man's Way, does it.... So - where - if they were cleared off or only kept as slaves etc, did all these genuine local Abos come from to make that claim? Your history re-writing is showing flaws..... https://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/things-to-do/historic-buildings-places/goat-island/map Oh, look - historic buildings... can't have been Abo ones then.... and all refurbished for their use.... National Parks are not First Alleged Nations Parks.... they are for all...... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Sprintcyclist on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 5:30pm
This is a good show.
Saw about 40 mins of it last night. Seems the Aborigines had their law that was used for 20,000 years and had had no invaders so did not know how to deal with them. The English had their law and used that. It was a different world. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 6:05pm Brian Ross wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 4:27pm:
Terra Nullius never meant uninhabited by humans. It is a legal, not a biological or anthropological concept. The instructions to Captain Cook were to take possession of the great southern land with the consent of the natives or, if the country was uninhabited, to take possession of it. Cook saw plenty of Aboriginal people but, coming from the dense population of England which had been subject to intensive agricultural techniques for centuries, not evidence of a kind he would recognise as the hallmarks of permanent habitation or cultivation of the land – Australia was thus terra nullius and remained so until 1992. https://www.fedcourt.gov.au/digital-law-library/judges-speeches/justice-jagot/jagot-j-20171020 In other words, there was no recognisable power whose consent coul be sought. Still there isnt for the whole continent, only to certain parts, as illustrated by Mabo. The Spanish faced far more recognisable and organised powers in the Americas but I do not think they have ever made a treaty with th he Aztecs or the Maya or anyone else - except the Portugese. So in that sense terra nullius is neither here nor there. People should know when they are conquered. It's been the history of the world. First Nations is a new legal fiction as obviously there were no nations here before 1788 in any sense current then or now. First Tribes and Clans, yes but no nations. That's what terra nullius means : a land without recognisable nations or rulers with whom a treaty could have been made. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 7:03pm Frank wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 6:05pm:
Re the highlighted: the tricky bit for us is this - since 1946, according to the UN Charter, "the acquisition of territory by force is inadmissible", and some blacks consider they were never conquered (unlike the Aztecs and Mayas who were wiped out), and feel justified in demanding return of sovereignty (since it was taken by force, not by agreement). |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 7:45pm
1946 is not 1788 - and there was no retrospective clause.... how could there possibly be?
Do they accept social security and all other government handouts etc? Then they are citizens and have no other sovereignty unless they are to formally secede and bring on the long awaited civil war...... if they were born here they were born as Australian citizens only - if they declare themselves Non-Australians they cede all benefits ...there is no argument about sovereignty. Your partisans are speaking to you of an utter lack of sovereignty and government dead for over two hundred years..... do not touch the crosses...... I predicted that under the Albanese New Labor International government virtually every day would bring us closer to that civil war... should I organise a sweep? First they hate on Australia Day, now they hate on the late QE II.... burn flags and so forth.... Yet this is labeled 'disturbing' - good for goose - not good for gander. ![]() |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 8:08pm
There are certain expressions which, although ridiculous, serve a useful purpose in alerting readers that what follows is fallacious gibberish. Phrases such as “hate speech”, “white privilege” and the insufferably smug “wrong side of history” are just a few examples.
Now a new word has emerged in the vernacular of the virtuous. It is time, they will say, that this country undergoes the process of ‘truth-telling’. The aim of this, we are told, is for the good of the nation and to bring us together. “When we think about the effect that a national truth-telling process would have on Australia, it’s remarkable,” said Minister for Indigenous Australians Linda Burney in July at the Garma Festival in north-east Arnhem Land. “I see this as, you know, a thousand flowers blooming.” As to what is supposedly stopping Indigenous Australians from telling their stories about the effects of colonisation in the absence of the proposed Makarrata commission, Burney did not elaborate. Nevertheless, a mostly compliant media has adopted the term, referring to it with respect and even reverence. So much for journalists avoiding loaded terms. It was a subject that featured last week on ABC’s Q+A. “When it comes to truth-telling, these are going to be really difficult conversations,” said Wiradjuri and Wailwan lawyer Teela Reid. Perhaps so. But if you serenely proclaim the transgressions of others warrant your truth-telling, be ready for a few unpleasant facts yourself. We can start with Reid’s comments about the one match suspension of NRLW Indigenous player Caitlin Moran for gleefully referring to Queen Elizabeth II as a “dumb dog” on the day of her death. “Free speech isn’t free in this country, particularly for First Nations people,” said Reid. “I think we really need to make sure that when First Nations women are speaking out, we’re not being overpoliced. I mean, this is, you know, just shocking to me.” She has a point. Just ask Country Liberal Party senator and Warlpiri/Celtic woman Jacinta Nampijinpa Price about the abuse and threats she cops from Indigenous activists when she calls out violence in Aboriginal communities. It is a truth that Indigenous women and girls are 31 more times likely to be hospitalised due to domestic and family violence related assaults compared to their non-Indigenous counterparts. Last month Northern Territory Supreme Court judge Judith Kelly lashed out at terms such as “systemic racism” and “institutional racism,” telling a group of female lawyers there was a “cultural component” to Indigenous violence. “There is the culture in some communities that tolerates violence against women and others that blames the victim and prioritises the interest of the male perpetrators over the female victims,” she said. “That, in my view, can only be changed from within those communities.” But these domestic killings would receive virtually no publicity if not for a prominent judge deciding to do a little truth-telling about Indigenous culture. To quote Bundjalung, Yuin and Gumbaynggirr man Nyunggai Warren Mundine: “Don’t these Black Lives Matter?” Or are he and Price in the category Reid referred to last week when she sneeringly observed that “colonisers will always cherry-pick a black voice that suits their agenda”? If Reid and other activists want truth-telling, bring it on. It is true to say the homicide rate in some NT towns is nearly twice that of the United States. It is also a truth that Indigenous youth suffers disproportionately from parental neglect. And is true that only 41 per cent of Indigenous children attend school 90 per cent or more of the time compared to the national rate of 70 per cent. This is not to distract from the reality that colonisation had a devastating effect on the Indigenous population. Nor do I deny the massacres that took place or the attitude that the original inhabitants were a doomed people, the colonial administrators believing their obligation was simply to “smooth the dying pillow”. Those shameful aspects are already part of our history curricula, as they should be. But if we to have truth-telling, then enough of the exaggerations and outright falsehoods. Eighteenth century explorer Captain James Cook was not a conquistador. Rather, he was a decent and enlightened man as well as one of history’s greatest navigators. It is also true he is fundamental to this country’s history, and that his vilification and obliteration have nothing to do with tolerance and everything to do with imposing a revisionist ideology. It is an unfortunate truth that Australian students are taught the claims of Bruce Pascoe, an author who is to Indigenous history what John Pilger is to journalism. It is also a truth that a gullible media not only failed to scrutinise his ludicrous conclusions, but also treated them as an article of faith. And it is a truth that governments devote enormous resources to addressing Indigenous disadvantage. As a federal parliamentary report noted in 2019: “Over the last decade, the Productivity Commission’s Indigenous Expenditure Reports … have consistently shown that total Commonwealth, state and territory government per capita expenditure on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people is approximately double the per capita expenditure on non-Indigenous Australians”. [url]https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/truthtelling-the-lefts-latest-woke-weapon/news-story/4b0f61ebac9aa44f4ed228a87 |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 8:11pm
It is also true to say that many of the so-called progressive commentariat and Indigenous activists loudly decry governments for the state of these communities but refuse to acknowledge the root causes other than blaming racism and colonialism.
And it is true there is such a thing as an Indigenous bandwagon. The 2021 census recorded that 812,728 people identify as Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander, an increase of 25 per cent from 2016. And it is a truth that many of these arrivistes are motivated by a rent-seeking industry that mandates everything from holding so-called welcome to country ceremonies to employing ‘cultural safety’ officers. It is also a truth that the mere act of elaborating these truths can see you hauled before a human rights commission or anti-discrimination tribunal. It is also true that the truth of one’s assertions is not an absolute defence to such action. It is a truth that no matter how many treaties are signed, or how many truth commissions are held, the intention is not to reconcile but rather to reinforce a permanent sense of guilt in mainstream Australians. And it is a truth that in the wretched Indigenous settlements little will change as a result. But you know what isn’t the truth? Claiming whitey is the source of all Indigenous misery. Reconcile that, progs. As always, you are all carried away by idiotic ideology. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 8:39pm
On that episode...
"The Appin massacre can be locally traced back to 1814. By March that year, Aboriginal warriors were spearing cattle and raiding farms along the Nepean from Bents Basin to Castlereagh. In early May three veteran soldiers shot and killed a Gandangara boy who was with a group taking maize from a farm on Mallaty Creek at Appin.One soldier was speared in return, died and was mutilated. A chain of revenge attacks and atrocities followed: settlers attacked a camp of sleeping people, killing and mutilating an Aboriginal woman, the wife of Bitugully, and three children, one of whom was a child of Yelloming – both Gandangara warriors. A stock keeper and his wife, and the children of another settler were killed at Bringelly in revenge. [6] Macquarie intervened and visited the area himself, decided that Aboriginal payback justice had been satisfied and ordered both sides to desist from further attacks. But violence continued. The men who killed the Gandangara woman and children were speared by Gandangara warriors on William Broughton's Lachlan Vale estate. In response, Macquarie ordered out the first official reprisal party of armed civilians and local Aboriginal guides. But after three weeks, this party returned empty-handed. Fatal conflict again erupted at Bringelly in February 1816 when GT Palmer's farm on the Nepean River was robbed by a group of 30 to 40 Aboriginal men. Settlers who went in pursuit were ambushed, shot at and speared – four were killed and the rest chased back to Fowler's farm, where warriors returned the next day to attack them again. One of the warriors may have been David Budbury, a local youth who had grown up with white people. [8] A week later the Gandangara struck again, at the Macarthur estate to the south, killing three men. A posse of settlers armed with muskets, pistols, pikes and pitchforks went after them, this time led by Budbury, only to be ambushed again by the Gandangara hurling stones and spears at them from a large rock above them. By the end of the month two more settlers, a woman and her servant, had been killed. These events were reported in detail in the Sydney Gazette – however, settlers' attacks, atrocities and killings were not, so the other side of the story in this cycle of conflict is unknown. [9] In response to these sophisticated and effective Gandangara attacks, Macquarie ordered a second much larger reprisal raid, this time staffed by military personnel. On 10 April 1816 he sent out three detachments of soldiers, each commanded by an officer, to comb the entire colony. Captain Schaw and his men went to the Hawkesbury, Lieutenant Dawe headed south to the Cowpastures and Captain Wallis trooped down to the furthest districts of Airds and Appin. Each detachment had both European and Aboriginal guides – Wallis had well-known white bushman John Warby and Aboriginal men Bundle and Budbury. They were ordered to track down, capture or kill all Aboriginal people, with no distinction between 'friendly' and 'hostile', although they also carried lists of particular men who were wanted as killers. Macquarie clearly specified that the Aboriginal people were to be 'called on, by your friendly Native Guides, to surrender themselves to you as Prisoners of War'. Only if they 'refuse to do so, and make the least show of resistance' were the soldiers to open fire on them. The bodies of the slain were to be hung up in the trees 'in order to strike the greater terror into the survivors'. Women and children were not excluded – any who were killed were to be buried 'where they fell'." |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 11:00pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 8:39pm:
I do not see how the Aborigines would have acted any differently had they been the conquerors of Britain. They killed and kidnapped and raped and pillaged in their interminable tribal wars for thousands of years. In 1788 they were decisively and irreversibly conquered. There is no turning back to 1787. They now speak English, are part of Australia. They were too primitive to have sovereignty in 1788 and there is no way of inventing sovereignty for them now. It is ludicrous and dishonest for Stone Age people of 40 thousands years standing to invent/introduce for themselves European concepts that are barely 500 years old in Europe itself!! Of course there are no Aboriginal 'First Nations'. Who are the European 'First Nations', nations being a recent European legal invention. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 5:42am
Australian cognitive dissonance on the issue of aboriginal mistreatment by colonists reminds me of Turkish cognitive dissonance regarding the Armenian genocide.
But an even closer analogy is that of Austrian cognitive dissonance regarding Austrian culpability for Nazi atrocities. Having been allowed, by the allies, for over 70 years to adopt the role of the victims of Nazism, Austrians have had the luxury of denying their role in atrocities committed in their name. It's a bitter pill to swallow, particularly for Australians born in the 50s and earlier, having only been taught of the achievements of colonisation and, of course, the 'happy scamps' the convicts were (after they were all well dead), but taught almost nothing of the treatment of aboriginal peoples. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 7:16am Brian Ross wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 4:27pm:
Yes, well, those who argue that terra nullius had little to no effect on the attitudes towards aboriginals in Australia need to explain the weapon that it provided the colonists. Terra nullius relegated aboriginal peoples to trespassers on the land and their gathering of food and resources from the land as theft. It doesn't take much imagination to intuit the rights that terra nullius bestowed on colonists to protect their property. Looking to the US, (the post-revolutionary culture of which heavily influenced Australian attitudes towards native peoples for nearly 200 years from 1788), while the notion of terra nullius was impossible there, (native peoples and cultures having been acknowledged for centuries in the Americas), their founding fathers did the next best thing: they relegated native peoples to savages and indiscriminate murderers in their founding document, being declared. ' the Inhabitants of our Frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known Rule of Warfare, is an undistinguished Destruction, of all Ages, Sexes and Conditions.' This piece of US legalism has influenced Australian attitudes, from their declaration of independence right up to Hollywood movies' colonists shooting dead native Americans by the countless thousands. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by aquascoot on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 7:48am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 5:42am:
cognitive dissonance on both sides. the right just steam rolled over them but the left throwing money at them and infantalising them and failing to see the destructiveness of learned helplessness is just as bad. we have much to learn from the aborigine. not by making him a proffesional victim but by letting him teach what comes naturally an appreciation of the simple life, a relationship with nature, resilience and a cheeky fun loving acceptance of the harsh reality of nature. the left want to educate him and make him fit for purpose as another chode in a shirt and tie working as a cog in the mattrix. they think he cant be happy living without all the tech and the whitegoods that the leftie sees as 'comfort" but he can. the true aborigine loves the bush, he loves walkabout, he doesnt want your silly education programs to groom him to become another cog in the machine. have any of the do-gooders from canberra ever gone to a community and actually asked him what he wants. because billions of dollars of programs run out of canberra is about as big an example of cognitive dissonance as i have ever seen |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 8:06am aquascoot wrote on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 7:48am:
Other than bullets in the heads of an aboriginal clan for trespassing on a pastoral lease and stealing, then eating, a sheep. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 8:19am Frank wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 8:11pm:
Agreed; something else is required to fix that wretchedness. The CDEP was a start, unfortunately cancelled by neoliberal market ideologues who expect people to lift themselves out of the generational poverty and social dysfunction into which they sank, in those settlements. Quote:
Of course there was plenty of misery on the First Fleet also, and still plenty of economic hardship among many non-blacks in Oz; misery has personal as well as external causes - see how your extreme 'personal responsibility' mantra leads you astray? Quote:
addressed above; your conservative, extreme 'personal responsibilty' mantra has much to answer for the economic dysfunction (unemployment, homelessnes) in modern times, including in black communities. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by aquascoot on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 8:27am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 8:06am:
bullet in the head or learned helplessness where you turn to grog and drugs and bad food to numb the pain and die slow. its the same end result |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 8:45am aquascoot wrote on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 7:48am:
Yes, yet when the CDEP offered them the chance to learn participation in the economy and the independence of an earned wage, extremist market ideologues came along and destroyed the CDEP. Quote:
Is it at all pratical to have people living a stone age existence in a country like Oz? A wholly hunter-gatherer economy is impossible, for a start, since most of the more productive country is in private hands. Quote:
Refuted above. I reckon cars, and modern transport for example, might be as 'desirable' to blacks as they are to you and me. Quote:
Maybe, but 'the bush' has been forever irrevocably changed by white settlement.... and the Simpson desert is not very congenial. Quote:
Tony Abbot, as PM, actually lived in a community or two, to understand the issues. Quote:
yes, unless you provide appropriate economic participation (as in the CDEP), all such welfare-type programs are a waste of money. Quote:
r correct, but it's impossible - for any group or individal - to ignore economic realities of the modern world. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 8:56am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 7:45pm:
The idiots were burning English & Australian flags & ranting about burning things down because of things from the past whilst speaking that it is happening now. Saying the Aboriginals are currently at "war" with non Aboriginals .... whilst including anyone black or brown & Asian that was not Aboriginals because they are all marginalised. ::) If that were true & things are the same now as in the late 1700s they would have all been arrested, and some may have been shot, as may have happened over 200 years ago. It's all about reparations/paying the rent so they can continue to sit on their arses for another 2 centuries. Lydia Thorpe was in amongst it in Melbourne screaming about genocide. Ship the bitch up to West Papua so she can see people suffering genocide first hand. Maybe then she'd realise how lucky she is. Especially now she has been parachuted into a $200,000 plus a year job .... just for identifying as Aboriginal. She can hand that back anytime she wants. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 8:59am thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 8:19am:
addressed above; your conservative, extreme 'personal responsibilty' mantra has much to answer for the economic dysfunction (unemployment, homelessnes) in modern times, including in black communities. [/quote] Do you have anything besides the scrapped CDEP to harp on about? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 9:07am
The Livid Thorpe Aboriginal nomenclature are hellbent on keeping Aborigines in permanent victimhood straightjackets.
https://mobile.twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1572952607420817409 They are building a permanent narrative straightjacket of victimhood and entitlement, shackles of welfare dependency, family violence, child sexual abuse, drug and alcohol problems, unemployability. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 6:41pm Frank wrote on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 9:07am:
You're preaching to the converted here. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 9:47pm Brian Ross wrote on Sep 22nd, 2022 at 3:28pm:
They SAID he assembled 100 men from different groups none of which had more than twenty. Obviously YOU didn't watch it. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 10:03pm
Been meanin' to do this, but busy today... per the Appin Massacre - though it is hard from the reports to get actual numbers all round - it appears that the total Aborigines killed reported was 19 - the number of Whites. including women and children.... 16, with 5 women and an unreported number of children, probably more.
As I said - mentions are made in the reports of White children being killed etc, but no numbers. You know - before you all start crying about the evil troopers kullin' the Blacks... you might want to pause for a while and see who the Blacks were killing at the same time. Did your heroic program mention any of those heartless massacres of innocents? If it were your family, what would be your response? Funny thing is - every time some dork comes along with some great idea of re-writing history, and people with any nous start to look into it to see for themselves from records etc, the more they see that the whole scenario being put across is BS. Some of you arseholes think it was fine for the Abos to kill women and children - never mentioned in your fantasy story on TV - but when the troopers retaliated and killed a few women and children in a melee in the dark - YOU CRY AND CRY about how the poor Blacks were massacred at Appin! The more I see of this the more disgusted I become with the history re-writer fantasists and their lies - and the more I become alienated from your Noble Abos. Maybe the idiots should have left it well enough alone before the truth came out. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:11am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 10:03pm:
There's something you need to accept - the history you were taught as a child was biased towards the colonists. It whitewashed (pardon the pun) atrocities committed by the British, then Australian, authorities out of non-indigenous memory. Australianism became defined through 'wild colonial boys', a sheep rustling swagman, convicts as happy scamps, salt-of-the-earth non-indigenous farmers, gold prospectors, European entrepreneurs and explorers - anything but native peoples' heroics. However, here's the thing - this is not about right vs wrong; it's about right vs right and wrongs committed for wrongs done. In the case of the convicts, as depraved as most of them were, did not come to Australia by choice, and yet were forced to survive by any means necessary. The free colonists may have come here by choice but, equally, once here, were also forced to survive by any means necessary. In this struggle for survival, violent conflict between aboriginal peoples and colonists was guaranteed. Not only that, the harsh truth is that it is irreconcilable. Ethno-chauvinism is innate in humans as is the longevity of cultural memory - as countless world conflicts confirm. There will never be a time when aboriginal peoples will feel compensated (no matter what reparations are delivered). Grievance culture can and does span hundreds of years, if not millennia. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:47am Gnads wrote on Sep 23rd, 2022 at 8:59am:
Do you have anything besides the scrapped CDEP to harp on about?[/quote] Yes: the gap...which must be eradicated, one way or another. Simply ahouting 'personal responsibility' is NOT going to close the gap. And neither is a voice or a treaty. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Xavier on Sep 24th, 2022 at 7:03am Yadda wrote on Sep 11th, 2022 at 10:25pm:
Well considering the Eora and other surrounding Aborigines got on extremely well with the young British Penal Colony in what is recognised historically as one of the most 'harmonious' examples of colonisation. I can only guess that any 'violence' that came regarding Aborigines came from those 'Media' motivated Americans. Good to see the Americanised Media of Australia manipulating things to create strife and division in the New Worlds as usual. ::) ::) |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 24th, 2022 at 10:32am thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:47am:
Yes: the gap...which must be eradicated, one way or another. Simply ahouting 'personal responsibility' is NOT going to close the gap. And neither is a voice or a treaty. [/quote] You can lead an Abo to a watering hole but you can't make him drink Great Northern .... at some time he has to choose to drink the hemlock of education and training and certification ... How do you propose to get them to do that? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 24th, 2022 at 10:36am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:11am:
Sadly for your argument - and that is a lie - those are the figures from that record written that I posted. Clearly you have no problem with Aborigines spearing defenceless women and children. It has zero to do with ethno-chauvinism - and all to do with the records, and the reality that this ludicrous program is white-washing Aborignal brutality that lead to retaliation, and clearly if I never gave such things a thought until this discussion came along, there was zero 'ethno-chauvinism' involved in my views.Not going to bother with the rest - the Abos didn't have a written history so there can be no comparison. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 10:37am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 10:36am:
Who wrote the records? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 24th, 2022 at 10:43am
I don't need to get my mind around anything - I got my mind around the figures and incidents written down and worked out who did what, and as Jordan Peterson said - commenting on something is not the same as approving or disapproving of it. However, to constantly harp on what 'the settlers did to the Abos' without reference to what the Abos did to the settlers is disingenuous to say the least.
It's a level of maturity that some of you can only dream of. I'll be here to say "I told you so!" when this all goes to hell. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 10:45am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 10:36am:
You remind me of Austrians denying Austrian culpability in Nazi atrocities, despite the evidence. But you're too old to be undoctrinated. Of course aboriginal peoples would have committed atrocities - particularly after they were evicted from their lands arising from the notion that they were trespassers in the own lands and thieves of its resources. As I said, this is about right vs right and wrongs committed for wrongs done. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 24th, 2022 at 10:45am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 10:37am:
As I said - are you prepared to say that every record is just a lie? And as I laid out earlier, since the verbal records of the Cheeses say the same thing about the actual Appin incident, apart from saying that there was no call to surrender, why would any of the others be any different? If there was no intent or knowledge of ongoing conflict, why did that group seek to hide itself? Can you PROVE that any actual records are false? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 10:49am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 10:43am:
To view the wrongs that aboriginal peoples could have inflicted on colonists as being equal in capacity and extent is a testament to your age and indoctrination. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 10:57am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 10:45am:
Given the writers of those records of conflicts between aboriginals and colonists were from the latter, they were not impartial observers. Certainly, the horror stories of the hell that was (particularly) the NSW colony did not escape the knowledge of NZ settlers. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 24th, 2022 at 10:57am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 10:49am:
Well - those are the fig-yures, Major Kong. 'could have inflicted' - white-washing again... 'equal in capacity' - well - I figure at least fourteen Whites from sneak attacks including several women and no shown number of children, meaning more than fourteen all told, compares pretty well with nineteen Abo combatants killed. Did the Abos take any prisoners? Or did they just spear defenceless women and children? Clearly the 'settlers' did or that woman would not be here to talk about here greatwhatever-grandma being taken away and taught civilisation so that her descendant could wear wedding rings, wear clothes, drive a car, eat well, and live in a nice house while speaking on national television ....... Clearly everything you say is a testament to your age and indoctrination. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by AusGeoff on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:04am In my opinion it's a waste of brainpower attempting to conflate what happened 240 years ago as regards white-aboriginal interactions with those of today. Social norms have changed enormously in that time. So it was only natural that the First Fleet crew saw the aborigines as primitive, dangerous killers. Also, numerous of the transported "convicts" were not murderers or rapists. John Hudson was sentenced to transportation at age nine for breaking and entering. Most had committed nonviolent offenses, mainly theft. Among the wide range of items they were convicted of stealing were livestock, tea, clothes, bedding, watches, mugs, and handkerchiefs. They were most commonly sentenced to seven years of exile in Australia. The First Fleet carried about 1,500 people. Only half of them—about 775— were convicts. The rest were free settlers or crew. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:07am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 10:32am:
You can lead an Abo to a watering hole but you can't make him drink[/quote] Yes you can; drunkenness and hence incarceration were markedly reduced when the CDEP was introduced and readily taken up in black communities. Quote:
Addressed above. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:10am
Anyone who looks dispassionately and without rose coloured one way glasses at these incidents can see clearly that they were in no way 'genocidal' moves, but were, rather, retaliatory moves against murderers, and as I said, it is only when such things come up and people of good will actually look at the incidents etc, that they see the real truth.
The truth overall is seen by the fact that countless Aboriginals remained in the Sydney area and did reasonably well, a reality proven by their ability to lay claim to Goat Island, the most expensive piece of real estate in Sydney Harbour. If those who were handed this national park are not locals... why was it handed to them at all? Every argument put forward by the revisionists falls under its own lack of weight. Up until actually looking at these things, I accepted that at times past there had been some dire things done to Abos, some of them apparently without any real reason, but a dispassionate review of what is recorded gives a different picture in many such incidents. So I will ask you - if all these learned professors of history were true historians - what sources did they use to arrive at the conclusion that the records of the time must all be false, and that, by contrast, verbal (Chinese Whispers) histories 100% correct, even when clearly totally biased one way? I'll bet that if you go and have a chat with some person who's just spent twenty year in prison, their story will not be the same as the official one.... 8-) 8-) 8-) Come back, good buddies... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:11am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 10:57am:
Spears vs guns - They say don't take a knife to a gunfight. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:12am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 10:57am:
To be fair, white men WERE hanged according to law in early NSW (1830's iirc) for murdering blacks. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:14am thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:07am:
Yes you can; drunkenness and hence incarceration were markedly reduced when the CDEP was introduced and readily taken up in black communities. Quote:
Addressed above. [/quote] So he'll only drink Great Northern if you buy it for him? Go then - start a fundraiser for Abo learning.... go put it into practice .... I ask again - if this was so successful why did all the alleged skills developed just vanished the moment the money stopped and was replaced by 'mainstream' training and education? Could it be because of refusal to accept 'mainstream' training and education alongside everyone else - (gasps) - equally? So it was just a question of 'free money or I don't play!'.... Another argument that falls flat of it own lack of support for the hot air inside it. 8-) ::) :D |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:18am AusGeoff wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:04am:
Yes, they would have had a similar mindset to the leaders of the newly-formed United States. They were 18th-century people. AusGeoff wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:04am:
Yes, of course, the British went to the great trouble and expense of transporting mainly happy scamps - not their known perverts, sociopaths and psychopaths who were finally caught sometimes for minor charges. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:20am thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:12am:
Execution. Yes. A great motivation to control the writing of the records. Colonial law enforcers had to live in those towns. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:24am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:10am:
So, land dispossession can be discounted as a motivator for aboriginal retaliation. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:27am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:14am:
Wrong - as is always the case with your extremist personal responsibility' delusion. Blacks take to grog when they are unemployed on poverty-level 'sit-down money'. Quote:
Training and education can't be imposed on dysfunctional communities, you have to fix the dysfunction first. Quote:
The CDEP offered appropriate work - as practically as possible - in the communitites. Two birds with one stone: employment and a living wage. Quote:
Your extremist 'personal responsibility' delusion - combined with your neoliberal "market forces" ideology - f**ks you every time. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:34am thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:27am:
The CDEP offered appropriate work - as practically as possible - in the communitites. Two birds with one stone: employment and a living wage. [quorte]Another argument that falls flat of it own lack of support for the hot air inside it. 8-) ::) :D[/quote] Your extremist 'personal responsibilty' delusion - combined with your neoliberal "market forces" ideology - f**ks you every time. [/quote] ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D So you say that saying people should take personal responsibility it extremist now? Good joke... so Big Daddy in the Government will fix everything, but Biog Daddy also genocided the Cheeses and causes all their problems? *shakes head in disbelief* Again - where was the skills base that persisted to the benefit of the communities - dried up the moment the money dried up. Make-work and an excuse to hand out money and say they're not on the dole and the government is doing something. "My" 'neoliberal market forces ideology'? What rock have you been hiding under all your life? You must be a school kid. Offer some valid solutions, not endless hyperbole and repetition. Nah then - what about that absurd assertion that the land was 'cleared' of Cheeses, and yet they were there to claim Goat Island? What about those dire Cheese crimes of murdering innocent women and children? Just plain old genocide? Here's a piccie from 1830 after the land was 'cleared' of them... just another falsehood, you say? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:47am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:24am:
So - what is the motivator for White retaliation? Land dispossession is sufficient justification for the murder of innocent women and children? So if someone's land is resumed by government to build a highway, that someone is entitled to kill the contractors and their wives and children? Their concept of land ownership was different - they had plenty to share but their tribal 'culture' prevented them from sharing even with their neighbours - they felt they owned all they could see simply by looking at it - that old Imperial idea long dead in the West. It was overtaken then - and is long gone now - hence no more land claims. They lost - get used to it. Here's some civilised ones having a go at it, kinda reminds you of some places today, eh? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 12:15pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:47am:
Land dispossession is the primary motivator for killings of all kinds - and war. There isn't a human culture that has ever existed whose inhabitants have not killed indiscriminately to defend their territory. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 12:16pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:47am:
Who drew that, do you think? An aboriginal or a colonist? British artists were skilled at making the Irish look like white apes. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:09pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 12:16pm:
Probably posed like a lot of newsie photos are. They'd have a vested (sic) interest in making the colonies look exotic and interesting - here are some of my pet Blacks playing in the yard .... ho, ho, ho... come to the colonies and you can see such sights yourself!! I can't seriously imagine the artist as a young woman standing on the side of a battle drawing with pencils and crayons as the fighting goes along... "Hold that spear thrust - let me get it just right there! Good fellow! Now just hold it for one minute ...... don't move, either of you!" |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:12pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 12:15pm:
True - and nobody is saying it was not a reason - though I balk at 'justification' for the murder of innocents - but look at Ukraine. Clearly any 'genocidal' intentions were on the part of the Indigenous determined to throw Whartey back into the sea.... Whartey took many of them into the fold and (gasps) civilised them... you may dispute the methods etc, but the reality was not genocide. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:14pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:34am:
No, I'm saying YOUR extremist and unbalanced 'personal responsibility' delusion f**ks YOU; external causes always have consequences for people's achievements in life, as well as and regardless of abilities re personal responsibility which of course is also required for successful living. Quote:
Play on words? The neoliberal 'market forces' ideology which you claim MUST alone determine wages outcomes; it's mainstream economic crap which doesn't excuse you one bit for repeating it. Quote:
Well.... I suppose John Macarthur's sheep farmlands WERE cleared of blacks...... Quote:
I'll let Meister sort you out with all that. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:21pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:09pm:
Was it even a live scene, or just something from the wild imagination of a colonial artist? It looks no different to how the British portrayed the Irish, just replace the black faces with white ape-like ones and you'd have an image of what the British thought of the Irish. There were celebrations in Ireland at the news of the Queen's death. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:22pm
P.S. do you imagine the passing of those murdered White women was easy? Why are such things not mentioned, and only the armed assaults on Cheese groups at the waterhole depicted etc?
One-sided history is not history.... and there is no concept of balance.... one can only arrive at an approximation of the truth through research and through applying standards of evaluation of sources. Had an argument with a Montyophile who claimed that Market Garden was Ike's plan - not Monty's - so Monty wasn't responsible for a monumental disaster. EVERY source says that Monty came up with the idea on false assumptions, and nagged Ike until he got limited approval, which he then expanded in a Patton 'rock soup' way into a major offensive. You can re-read and re-write history - but you must in the end rely on sources that can be verified and which stand up to the 'pub test'. That woman crying over her greatwhatever-grandma being carried off into civilisation does not stand the pub test, since clearly she did well out of that, and yet the emotion rules the discussion and not the realities. How many of my female ancestors, and yours, do you imagine were 'stolen' and ended up in some bloke's breeding chain? How many of my Irish ancestors suffered dispossession by Cromwell? How many of my German Jewish ancestors were persecuted and even killed? How many Scottish etc were beaten into the ground so their land could be taken? Should I now be weeping about it and saying that means I am savagely disadvantaged here and now today? Do I now get to claim all those ancestral lands? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:22pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:12pm:
And who gave the colonists possession of the land? Other colonists? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:29pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:22pm:
Did you experience life as an Irishman, Scotsman, German-Jew or Australian? What is your primary cultural identity? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:31pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:29pm:
Australian - same as the Cheeses or they forfeit all benefits and rights - and very poor upbringing - many Cheeses had it far better, let me tell you. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:34pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:22pm:
A childhood friend of mine was Irish by descent (parents Irish) and he would recount lurid tales of Cromwell pitchforking babies. Cultural memory when shackled to cultural identity is forever. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:36pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:31pm:
So the chances are you do not have bone-deep feelings for the old countries. Your Australian identity has extinguished any inherited cultural rage about past atrocities committed against your ancestor. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:38pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:34pm:
His family would not tolerate protestants in their house. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 24th, 2022 at 2:00pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:38pm:
Multiculturalism in action. Diversity is Ireland's strength. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 24th, 2022 at 2:38pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 1:36pm:
It was long ago and in a faraway country, and besides - the woman is dead.... (comes from a famous poem) ... I'm trying to enlighten our Cheeses and the CheeseLovers that the past is a foreign planet to which we cannot travel and from which there is no extradition treaty... you can't live there due to the toxic environment. It's time! Time to get into the 21st Century or keep charging straight into civil war by your own impetus... and you can't win. With all this hot-headed BS in the streets, how long before some turkey gets it into his head to attack Whartey direct? When you talk of war, be careful of what you speak.... you WILL lose, Cheeses.... and you were doing so well getting stupid politicians and courts to raise their arses to you... Time for the BS to finish! My father's family were Prods - my mother's Cat'lics - never the twain shall meet... I'm the Black Sheep of two Black Sheep.... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 4:42pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 2:38pm:
The past is 15 minutes ago and raw, where ethnic/cultural memory linked with ethnic/cultural identity, is concerned. That is true everywhere they are so linked - in Scotland, in Catalonia, in the Americas, in Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Armenia, Transnistria, South Africa, Israel, Palestine, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, the Phillippines, Cyprus, Ukraine, Ireland, Canada, Basque Country, the Caribbean, East Turkestan &etc Why would it not be the same with the aboriginal peoples in Australia? And, yes, you can live there, generation after generation, for hundreds, if not a thousand, years. Why else would dominant cultures resort to the genocide or ethnic cleansing of subjugated peoples? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 24th, 2022 at 5:11pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 4:42pm:
Memory doesn't have to be self-destructive. Conversely, self-destructive behaviour will not improve memories. The last two centuries of Aboriginal life and history is exhaustively documented compared to the previous 40 thousand years. The relentless self-pity is futile and energy-sapping as well as alienating of others. Who wants to walk with people who have no other topic but the bipolarity of billowing self-pity or exaggerated pride. I can't help noticing that both the self-pity and pride are done in English, using all the tools of culture and technology Aborigines did not have themselves. How about some gratitude for the obvious improvement civilisation has brought to most Aborigines' lives, especially the loudest protesters' lives. What are they doing for the remote kin, other than yelling in English on the ancient Aborigal streets through ancient Aboriginal electronic loudspeakers, fully dressed in Western clothes? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Sep 24th, 2022 at 5:21pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 11:24am:
You cannot be disposed of anything you don't own. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 24th, 2022 at 5:27pm Gnads wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 5:21pm:
You can be dispossessed of land you occupy by ancient custom. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 5:28pm Frank wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 5:11pm:
Cultural memory and its resultant resentment of subjugation are extraordinarily tenacious, the language that transmits it is irrelevant - it just needs to be communicated. And it cannot be bought off or appeased out of existence. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 5:29pm Gnads wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 5:21pm:
Who determines ownership? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 5:31pm thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 5:27pm:
Whose ancient custom? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:09pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 5:29pm:
Since 1788 - the Crown as represented by the governing body here. What was the go in 1787 is not the go now - I can't claim a huge swathe of land because I walk over it regularly. It just doesn't work that way any more and it is time to get used to it. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:12pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 5:28pm:
So we forget the murdered White men, women and children, and carry on forever over the relatively few actually killed as long as they were Aborigines? their families are not entitled™ to hold anything against the people who did those murders etc, but the Cheeses are entitled™ to carry on forever over a few war casualties in a war they declared? Is that what you're truth-telling us? What if White Australia carried the same grudges? There'd be hell on the streets... and there may well be some time soon if this keeps up. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:12pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:09pm:
The consequence of terra nullius. In Britain that is exactly how walkways through private land are kept public - by the public walking through the land at least once a year. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:22pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:12pm:
You're a product of your generation - indoctrinated with an Australian history skewed to sanctify colonial settlement. However, it's no different to the narrative all dominant cultures teach their adherents toward the subjugated. You're just not capable of seeing it as applying to aboriginal peoples regarding colonialism. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:38pm
Black Culture Good - White Culture Bad? Black entitled™ to hate and hold grudge and demand and demand after losing war - White can only kow-tow?
|
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:42pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:38pm:
As I said, you're an indoctrinated old man. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:52pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:22pm:
You are choosing to overlook the killings of Whites for little to no reason, including women and children, while lauding the righteous killings by the Noble Blacks, and condemning every retaliatory action take by the Whites? What possible characteristic could it be of a 'dominant society' to simply look with an open mind at the events under scrutiny? What about your (absurd) narrative if the ONLY discussion on national television was the murder of Whites by Blacks and the vilification of Blacks as a result? What would be your reaction if the whole deal was focused on what the Blacks did to get the punishment they did, and not what the Whites did in response to murder etc? Would it be the same? If not ..... WHY NOT? Truth-telling - works ALL ways. Just culchah, is it? THAT, my son - is why YOU are a product of YOUR generation that knows everything but knows nothing, and I am a product of impartial and unprejudiced reason......... As I said before - if I were a 'product of my generation' (the really educated one) - why was it that until such time as discussion of these things became the big deal of the day (same as Lefty's madness about 'trannies'), I held only the view that in the past some terrible things were done (or in the case of the trannies they existed but had no impact on me) .... but never in my experience? Again - so we just forget that - for example - the 'Appin Massacre' of fourteen indigenous followed the murders of more (at that stage) Whites, including several women and even more children uncounted in the reporting but stated as 'her children' meaning more than one ..... and given the times probably three or four? Let's look at it again - by the time of the 'Appin Massacre' SIXTEEN Whites had been killed - and leaving out that FOURTEEN Blacks - only FIVE Blacks had been killed. Five + Fourteen = NINETEEN. So the Cheeses had been killing men, women and children at a rate of over three times their own deaths until that 'massacre', and yet this is nowhere described as a 'massacre'? I'll try again - what if they had been YOUR family? If they'd been mine I would kill every Black in sight..... YOU? And guess what - according to that descendant - they weren't all killed at Appin. Something wrong with your generation, son? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 24th, 2022 at 7:08pm
You know what's good about all this and the other garbage doing the rounds these days - being discussed openly...... people who never thought that much about it dig and find the real truths..... which are NEVER what the zealots are trying to push on everyone else.
16 -5 ... add 14 .... 16-19 .... yet only one side is the criminal..... Jesus, you people are thick. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 24th, 2022 at 9:08pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 5:28pm:
You can't do Dreamtime in English, in an air conditioned university or government office or on the streets of capital cities. You can't recollect and live cultural memory that has been unchanged for 40 thousand years like that. Everything Aborigines demand is stuff introduced by Europeans - sovereignty, legal rights, written treaty, money, mining royalties, financial compensation, democratic representation, referendums, legislative power, government power etc. Absolutely none of it is rooted in Aboriginal culture or language. These are fairly recent inventions in Europe itself, none of them older than about 2500 years. If the Europeans had been just like an overwhelmingly powerful Aboriginal tribe but culturally identical, they would have subjugated or exterminated the weaker Aboriginal tribes here. The point is that Aboriginal cultural similarity would have been even worse as they would have been a lot harsher, unaccommodating and cruel - see how some Aborigines - the most traditional ones - still treat each other to this day. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 24th, 2022 at 10:06pm
An Indian bloke on Twitter asked if Britain should be paying reparations to the nations they once held. One English bloke got it in one - he said they were still waiting for word from the Romans, and had not heard a peep from the Saxons, Jutes, Danes, and Vikings - let alone the Normans, etc as regard reparations for invasion.
It's time the Cheeses stopped this nonsense and got on with it. Their day is gone. If we all held the Entitlement™ to be active for losses in our past, we would all be on the streets endlessly parading with our own personal 'flag' and all the other rubbish. At 16+ Whites killed v 5 Cheeses in the lead-up to Appin - it sounds like the ethnic cleansing was coming from the Cheeses..... sorry 'bout that. THEY were the ones intent on driving the others out or killing them, man, woman and child, yet all we hear is the whining over 'the Appin Massacre' of fourteen combatants who clearly knew they were in a 'war' since they were hiding. They lost. Now for the Truth-telling sequel - The Truth About Frontier Wars Australia. Many of you here, and out there in LaLaland Australia, need to wake up and actually work these things out - and stop accepting everything you're told as gospel. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Sep 25th, 2022 at 7:50am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:11am:
Well that can be seen in non Aboriginal immigrant groups as well ...... when the Australian Govt decided to take the 3 generationally at odds Yugoslav groups in ...Serbs, Croats & Muslim Bosnians. The Australian born children are taught the prejudices of their parents, Grandparents aggrievances of the past & don't like each other even today. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Sep 25th, 2022 at 7:52am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 6:42pm:
I'd say a fair chance the indoctrination is in your court. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 25th, 2022 at 8:39am Gnads wrote on Sep 25th, 2022 at 7:50am:
Yes. Ethno-cultural, religious grievances can be observed everywhere in the world, almost without exception, where two or more confront each other - and made worse where one group dominates, or has dominated, the others. And the memory of the struggle can last millennia - hence the statue of Boudica. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 25th, 2022 at 9:17am Gnads wrote on Sep 25th, 2022 at 7:52am:
There is no doubt that the narrative of colonisation, as taught to those of the 50s, and before, is in its death throes and within 20 years will be gone with the passing of those generations. However, grievances will persist, surviving us all, and generations after us. But, a word of caution to those who believe those grievances will be extinguished by reparations - they will not. Like a hydra, severing the head of one grievance issue will spawn two others; that is the nature of the human capacity for harbouring resentment for dispossession and subjugation. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 25th, 2022 at 9:25am Frank wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 2:00pm:
To close this out, years later when, as an adult, he visited Ireland, he told me he was stunned to discover that the Republic had progressed well beyond its psychiatric obsession with the Catholicism of his parent's generation and before - he saw Irish protestant churches, met Irish Buddhists, and saw Irish Hari Krishnas. Irish freedom from subjugation in the south had extinguished the active resentment towards the British and their rule, although that resentment was still alive when it came to the issue of 'the six counties' (Northern Ireland) and when it came to the memory of British rule. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Ron on Sep 25th, 2022 at 10:15am
As aboriginal woman Jacinta Price says "we should be grateful that the British colonised Australia".
There are no wars in Australia, only the ungrateful and divisive activists that are doing their best to stuff things up. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 25th, 2022 at 10:25am
I read a counterfactual some time ago of Australia's history had the Dutch in the East Indies colonised the north; had the French not been distracted by the revolution and Napoleonic wars, colonising the west, and had the British colonised only the southeast.
Australia would have had three distinct cultures - a Quebec-style state in the west, a northern Islamic state and an eastern British state. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 25th, 2022 at 10:58am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 5:31pm:
Gnads made a confused statement about "ownership" of land. I just pointed out 'history's' custom: 6OK years ago, hunter-gatherers entered Oz and occupied the land (which really had been 'terra nullius'...). Interestingly today, some academics are grappling with the problem of maintaining a 'living' black culture, by adopting the concept of black ownership of land which they are free to develop in their own way thereby preserving the culture. I think that's madness, as well as contradictory; ownership of land is NOT part of black culture. A more practical idea, to account for black dispossession, would be government housing for blacks (and whites) who cannot access the private housing market; housing ownership rates in Oz are falling, will soon drop below 50%. (Meanwhile , I'm pleased to see the CCP has finally taken control of the chaotic free-market housing outcomes in China, by reaffirming houses are for living in, not private investment; the CCP is guaranteeing funds to ensure completion of housing already paid for, and to ensure stabilization of Evergrande's debt, thus avoiding the housing crash expected by Western economists]. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 25th, 2022 at 11:26am
Aboriginal relation to the land is not in any way like 'land rights' or ownership. It is radically different to ownership, in fact. But since neither contemporary urban Aborigines nor non-Aborigines can comprehend or reproduce or articulate that radically different relationship, and because the entire contemporary legal, philosophical, political system is deaf and blind to it, those ancient relationships are expressed in concepts and language that misses the point.
"The Australian people of the pre-conquest era did not avoid agriculture because they didn’t know how plants grow. The proposition would be absurd, given they were acute observers of the plants around them and the plants’ life cycles. Instead, they regarded the fertility and the reproductive spark that maintained plant populations via seeds to be spiritual, not a matter of secular human technology." Aboriginal law, similarly, is nothing like Western law. While there is continuity between, say, Greco-Roman antiquity and contemporary Western concepts, law, etc, there is nothing connecting ancient Aboriginal ways of seeing the world and our contemporary way of seeing, regardless of Aboriginality or otherwise. There was an irreversible paradigm shift between two radically incompatible ways of seeing and being when the British arrived. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 25th, 2022 at 11:37am thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 25th, 2022 at 10:58am:
Judging by that, I'm guessing you're punching 75 in the face. A black culture? You'd be laughed out of Africa, Polynesia, Melanesia, Micronesia and all of Asia with that little nugget of 50s-style rhetoric; as you would be among aboriginal peoples in Australia. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 25th, 2022 at 11:38am Frank wrote on Sep 25th, 2022 at 11:26am:
Well said. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 25th, 2022 at 11:38am Frank wrote on Sep 25th, 2022 at 11:26am:
Are you aboriginal? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 25th, 2022 at 11:52am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 25th, 2022 at 11:37am:
Care to elucidate.... So how does a "living black culture" (an anachronism if we are talikng about a hunter-gatherer culture) get preserved in the modern world. By adopting communist ownership of land by the state? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 25th, 2022 at 11:56am thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 25th, 2022 at 11:52am:
Can you elucidate on black culture, then maybe white culture - just in case there are, say, Italians and Slavs reading this? They might want to be educated on how it's all just white culture. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 25th, 2022 at 12:07pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 25th, 2022 at 11:56am:
You failed to answer my question (....too difficult?) , preferring to ask yours instead. Slavs and Italians left the hunter-gather culture behind millenia ago. Now there's nothing wrong with preserving ancient costumes, song, and dance, but the economic basis of all culture today must be relevent or practicable in today's global world.... Also, many black cultures up until colonization (like all human cultures before c.6 millenia ago) had no writing... So I ask again, how do you ensure the survival of a "living black culture", other than through preserving aspects of the culture like art and (non-written....) language ? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 25th, 2022 at 12:25pm thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 25th, 2022 at 12:07pm:
So black culture to you is hunter-gatherer culture. Any differences in cultures between say, south-western Aboriginal cultures and north-western ones? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 25th, 2022 at 1:34pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 25th, 2022 at 12:25pm:
Specifically, black culture in Oz in 1788. How do you perserve that culture - or what aspects of it - into the modern world. Quote:
No doubt, the different climate would have ensured a difference; but you are confusing "the black culture" of 1788 with the surviving black culture of now (whatever it is). Given that reality, it's impossible to preserve a "living black culture" in the modern era, without defining what aspects of the original culture are defunct and which are not. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 25th, 2022 at 1:45pm
Well - the CEDP will fix all that.........
What was Black Culture in 1788? Anybody? Bit of fishing, hunting, fighting, yabbying, oystering, breeding, moving where the mood of the requirements took you... bit of bluing with the neighbouring tribes over your land boundaries... whatever your spears could guarantee you... bloody imperialism at its very worst, that was..... Ummm .... that's a hard one..... I love all the generalisations and assumptions that go into these discussions, along with the tiniest element of analytical thought and actually looking at things and thinking about them.... Now - about this culture....... what was it exactly? Can you feel the mighty chasm opening beneath your feet once again, all you zealots? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 25th, 2022 at 3:01pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 25th, 2022 at 1:45pm:
It was a long-lived, illiterate hunter-gatherer culture with its own oral mythologies, oral tribal laws, and artistic expressions. Those oral mythologies and artistic expressons have survived into our time, but the law and economic base of the hunter-gatherer culture has not survived, nor can it. That's where the CDEP comes in, to close the gap...... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 25th, 2022 at 3:57pm thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 25th, 2022 at 10:58am:
Yeah, coz government is a familiar concept, unlike land ownership.... ::) ::) |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 25th, 2022 at 4:10pm Frank wrote on Sep 25th, 2022 at 3:57pm:
still .....we all need houses, not land, to live in....and ownership of land and housing is a secondary consideration, especially as neoliberal markets are pricing more and more people out of the housing market. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 25th, 2022 at 7:55pm thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 25th, 2022 at 3:01pm:
Ah - so that now the culture has changed, they will have no trouble getting by in a more orderly and organiser society... Ship 'em all off to re-education camp and train them to do something... count how much it has cost - then turn 'em loose to make a living on their own without any further support... out their learned skills to use and fix their communities while earning from doing so. That's the productive way. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 25th, 2022 at 7:56pm
Reprise - takes another bow:-
Well - I guess they didn't learn their lesson at Appin all those years ago after running around and murdering more than sixteen Whites, including women and children, in their ethnic cleansing/genocide against Whites ... and when Whartey cunningly snuck up on them and caught them napping while in hiding and took down fourteen armed combatants in a melee in the dark with a few not so innocent bystanders included. When you run with the wild dogs killing sheep - you die with the wild dogs.... Now they run around murdering society by proxy while feeding off it .... and nobody mounts an operation against them... instead all the spiritually, morally and cerebrally blind, mentally lame and halt, and drug-addled on New City Hall Righteousness (NCHR) actually change history to make it into something it never was. They stand at the gates (gatekeepers), lumping people (as the generationophobes do) into neat little boxes in their own minds, like Dr Mengele - and determine on a purely arbitrary basis which facts and reports and histories will be sent to work for the cause and which will go to the Social Scientist gas chambers... Blacks raping and murdering women and children - GOOD! Whites killing combatants and taking children into protection - BAD! Seriously - this country has become very, very sick. |
Title: Re: The professionally offended are offended Post by Brian Ross on Sep 25th, 2022 at 9:02pm
It appears that the title of the thread should be changed. Why? Because the professionally offended are offended by the very idea that an alternative version of history is perceived by some people. The professionally offended appear unwilling to accept that historical revision looks at events with fresh eyes and new perceptions. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::)
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Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by John Smith on Sep 25th, 2022 at 9:03pm Brian Ross wrote on Sep 25th, 2022 at 9:02pm:
to grappler |
Title: Re: The professionally offended are offended Post by Frank on Sep 25th, 2022 at 9:27pm Brian Ross wrote on Sep 25th, 2022 at 9:02pm:
What is the source of the novelty? Is new a virtue and s positive in itself? |
Title: Re: The professionally offended are offended Post by The Grappler on Sep 25th, 2022 at 9:48pm Frank wrote on Sep 25th, 2022 at 9:27pm:
The thing about 'versions of history' is that you must have sources - there are primary sources - which could be handed-down stories, records, written histories at the time etc - then the search begins for secondary sources that may (or may not) support the primary source. When you are looking only at verbal histories passed down for two hundred years, you are in grave danger of not applying the correct rigor to your research, and thus of putting a fatal flaw into your work. In this case, clearly the written and verbal histories match on some points - it is then up to the TRUE historian to actually review and use tools to work towards as close an interpretation as possible to real events. The simple facts - as shown in my revision - are that during the series of incidents that lead up to the 'Appin Massacre' - many more Whites were murdered, including totally innocent women and children..... by contrast very few Aboriginal women were killed, and only in one situation of direct combat - and even then the surviving children were taken into protection..... whereas the Aborigines callously murdered at least two women and their children in cold blood.... not by accident... in cold blood. I ask again - how would YOU feel if they had been your family? Tsk, tsk, tsk. Any review of history must first state its full basis, and then must be viewed ONLY as another opinion and not as any definitive truth.... and it should NEVER be sold as a definitive truth.... especially when the true facts speak differently. Adios, revisionists - you came, you saw something, you were conquered. Clearly the revised and Abo-favouring history is not the real deal, no matter how much funding the ABC and SBS put into it. Propaganda pure and simple. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 8:27am John Smith wrote on Sep 25th, 2022 at 9:03pm:
It's clear no one loves him LOL |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Sep 26th, 2022 at 8:42am FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 8:27am:
You'd be in the same category ey? ::) |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Xavier on Sep 26th, 2022 at 8:44am
Amazon paid for the rights to do Tolkiens Rings of Power then, after being professionally offended that Tolkien wrote a European mythology based on its past - that didn't include Black People in the name of diversity (although it is a racially diverse book) and set about including Black People in its new TV series with stories made up and canon manipulated and changed so Black people can be in it. ::)
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Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 8:56am Jasin wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 8:44am:
Yes, gnomes can't possibly be black. Normal people don't care if a made up character is black. You know who cares? Nazis |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Xavier on Sep 26th, 2022 at 9:01am FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 8:56am:
Ironically, the most loudest of the many Anti-Amazon Tolkien fans are Black. With the current popular remarks regarding that the attraction of Tolkienism to Non-White/European peoples is that it is 'very European' in its historical mythology and that Amazon is exploiting Black People to create division and racism, more than anything. The point is also highlighted that a remake of the movies 'ZULU'/ZULU DAWN' would thus have white people running around as Zulus and black British officers. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 9:04am Jasin wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 9:01am:
They have black profile pics. They are trumptards lol. Yes, making historically black people white is the SAME as making a mythical character black. HAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!! |
Title: Re: The professionally offended are offended Post by AusGeoff on Sep 26th, 2022 at 9:12am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 25th, 2022 at 9:48pm:
THIS is a well written and concise recounting of the Appin Massacre, with references, from the State Library of New South Wales. [Karskens, Grace, Appin massacre, Dictionary of Sydney, 2015, http://dictionaryofsydney.org/entry/appin_massacre] |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 26th, 2022 at 9:12am Tarzan will never be cast as black. A black ape-man? No-one would dare. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 9:15am Frank wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 9:12am:
Seen this a few times. Irrelevant. The racist right are crying about black people in movies |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 26th, 2022 at 9:50am Frank wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 9:12am:
Nor Hannibal 'The Cannibal' Lecter. Nor Nurse Ratched. Or the Joker. Or imagine if they cast a black African as an Aborigine or an 18th century samurai. Or an Aztec princess or Ming Dynasty courtier. No. Total anachronism is permissible ONLY with European historical characters. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 9:53am Frank wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 9:50am:
In fact this is all BS. White actors are the norm, so white actors are not noticable, they are everywhere. Cry more about how the little mermaid hurt you. HAHAHAHAAA!!! The right lurch from one confected crisis to another |
Title: Re: The professionally offended are offended Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 10:58am AusGeoff wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 9:12am:
Does it give the series of incidents that lead up to the 'Appin Massacre'? Or are they simply overlooked? Sentence one, Geoff :- "The Appin massacre occurred in the early hours of the morning of 17 April 1816, the outcome of a military reprisal raid against Aboriginal people"... Now what does that signify to you? Her partisans are speaking to her in a language of actions dead for two hundred years...... why is anything written in 2015 more in touch with the realities than records made at the time? BTW - that's exactly the record I posted.... however, mine was the original and much of this is word for word. Your point being? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 26th, 2022 at 10:59am FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 9:53am:
White actors are the norm in movies set in European history. But nowadays you see blacks as medieval Scottish kings and nobles, as 18th century British aristocrats or as a French Belle Epoque gentleman thief and master of disguise(!), as figures in Norse mythology. You would not see a white actor playing a black slave in Georgia or Prez O'Bama (even though he was no more black than he was white, 50-50). |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:01am Frank wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 10:59am:
So when the colour is irrelevant, we might change it? Seems fair..... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:06am
Tarzan was always White.... sorry 'bout that..... Hollywood won't make a Black Tarzan movie... except as a joke intended to fail... a Mel Brooks perhaps... that might sneak through....
The next King Kong has to be about a non-ape..... for inclusion's sake.... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:20am FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:01am:
There were no African medieval Scottish lords, no African Norse characters, no African aristocrats in European courts. Casting black actors this way is jarring because of its anachronism and does them only a disservice - everyone knows why it is done. Not for verisimilitude, not because they fit the role but because of tendentious contemporary race baiting political reasons. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:21am Frank wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 10:59am:
That's true. But only because the core focus is skin colour. The focus of Macbeth is not, nor even a theme. While Shylock must be Jew, he could be an Ethiopian Jew. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:23am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:21am:
Never met a Black Macbeth... https://bagtownclans.com/index.php/2021/02/24/clan-macbeth/ |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:25am Frank wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:20am:
Shakespeare's Macbeth is itself a fiction - written to placate and impress James I & VI and pander to his prejudices and superstitions, not to record history accurately. Of the few physical features known of the real Macbeth was that he was 'fair of hair and red of face'. How many British actors who've played the role fit that description? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:26am Frank wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:20am:
The issue is you are a racist and feel baited. I am not giving it a second thought. The idea they do it to make you cry DOES delight me though' |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:27am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:23am:
You never met Macbeth, either. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:27am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:25am:
There's a good number of memes going around pointing out how rarely the actor meets the description in the book, but racists are only upset if the actor is black |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Setanta on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:31am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:06am:
Netflix will though... https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aN1DZ44_700bwp.webp https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a7MvDBb_700bwp.webp |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:32am Setanta wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:31am:
The thing that REALLY hurts you is these are all for profit companies. They are not trying to change society. THey are going where society has already gone. They are reflecting the fact society hates the far right |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:35am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:25am:
There were no African lords in medieval Scotland or Britain. How an African approximates the idea of fair of hair and red of face is a task you would struggle to explain - yet you bring it up as some sort of argument. There needs to be a degree of verisimilitude to make a tale, a parable, illustrative and its meaning believable. You wouldn't cast two rabbits when staging the he story of the hare and the tortoise. Or Boris Johnson to play Bazza O'Bama. It would be a jarring, unbelievable distraction. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:35am FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:32am:
Eddie Murphy? Doesn't hurt me in the least... a passing idea soon vanished into limbo.... if the idea was so strong they'd release it into theatres - not into a captive audience limited to a certain number of movies per week... Clearly you know nothing ...................... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D yardle, yardle ..... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:39am Frank wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:35am:
Look, I don't even know what movies you're talking about. I'm not a racist building a list. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:41am FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:39am:
A list of reality is racist now? You mad or something, boy, or just plain stupid? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D yardle, yardle ....... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:41am Frank wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:35am:
Verisimilitude, eh! So you're sold on the witches and their prophecies, then. Would they have to be Scottish women, or could you live with them looking more like dishevelled androgynous Romanies ? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:47am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:41am:
The witches were things of the time - still are with some claiming to be witches etc today - Black Lords were not. Easy as pie. The idea of a Black Lord was raised in various legends of King Arthur, with Sir Sagramor being a ... Moor.. as the -mor implied, Moor being a generic term for a Sallow. Most say he was the son of a Hungarian Lord and a Roman lady ... something like that.... but given the breadth of the Roman Empire that preceded Arthur (Artorius) a bit of the old tar brush is not outside consideration..... Black Scottish Laird? Hmmmm... NO! |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:51am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:47am:
How about Jesus? Do you think he really looked like a Swede? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:54am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:51am:
Different era - doesn't make an appearance in MacBeth... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:55am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:51am:
Apparently the Jesus we're used to seeing was Michaelangelos boyfriend. Just like the Little Mermaid was a parable about unreturned gay love |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 12:00pm FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:55am:
So Mermaids are gay? I feel that is 'reading-in' way too much. The little mermaid was female - who was the love interest? I don't know about you, but 'mermaid' clearly indicates female, and prince clearly indicates male... you know - women/man polarity? WTF are you on about this time? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D yardle, yardle .... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 26th, 2022 at 12:01pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:54am:
What? You're 70 going on 15 now? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 12:02pm
I love that Grappler is deeply illiterate and can't use Google LOL
https://medium.com/lessons-from-history/the-little-mermaid-is-really-about-unrequited-gay-love-cba337f4ea85 This is VERY widely reported LOL |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 12:02pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 12:01pm:
Is he only 70? Rapid mental decline is tragic..... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 12:14pm FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 12:02pm:
And is utter bullshit. Just another gay fantasy. Gay love between a real man and a real woman is impossible. It doesn't matter if Andersen was gay - the story is not. Are you saying that Somerset Maugham's stories are all gay? Or that Michelangelo's paintings are all gay? so we need to see every Elton John hit as a gay thing? Every Dusty Springfield song as lesbian? The Seekers hits all gay and lesbian? Sales would have been dismal if that were the case. All those show is how much accepted the gay/leso community are in reality, without all the BS about stampeding for their 'rights' etc. The desperation of the 'gay' lobby is showing daily with every attempt to twist everything into their idea of reality. All that is required for gay stupidity to flourish is for a few good closets to do nothing - here's to a few good closets...... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D yardle yardle ..... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 12:16pm
This just in. Mermaids are real women. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!
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Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 26th, 2022 at 12:17pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 11:41am:
You are grasping at straws only you can see. There were no African nobles and kings in medieval Scotland just as there were no fair of hair and red of face Zulu kings. And if Billy Connoly had been cast as a Zuli king circa 1234 AD you would have seen it as the joke it would have been. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 12:23pm FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 12:16pm:
Hmmm - more desperate than usual...... they are women mermaids..... in the story the female mermaid wants to be a female woman to follow through on her love for a male human...... You silly little boy.... keep grasping... I love to see you on the ropes... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D yardle yardle .... it's all you've got. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 12:28pm Frank wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 12:17pm:
I still have no frame of reference for the claim anyone did this..... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 26th, 2022 at 12:43pm Frank wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 12:17pm:
Well, Macbeth, like so much of Shakespeare, dramatises universal themes of the human condition - betrayal, guilt, remorse, retribution, vengeance. It is not faithful to historical fact. That is why Shakespeare speaks to all ethnicities. Were Macbeth to be played in India, Japan or Nigeria tomorrow, the actors' skin colour would be irrelevant. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 12:54pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 12:43pm:
But this isn't India, Japan or Nigeria.... (great name that last).... Is there a Nigeria in the house? Their industries are quite at liberty to do a local version of MacBeth... would fit Japanese movies etc a lot... you could translate Hamlet to being the son of a big corporate owner in New York or something.... Take the battlements scene..... his mate says - "Hey, Ham - I've come across something in the computer files... a bit hazy.. looks like someone's tried to erase it... but clearly there is something there about your dad..." "OK - let's go and take a look on the mainframe... might get clearer access there..." **they toddle off to Computer Central at the firm** "Nobody here. all gone for the night... let's do a little search here....." "Look where it comes again! Right there in the Deep Core with special access required. You've still got that? Hey - err.. I'll leave you to it... got a date to catch.... let me know if you come up with anything, Ham." "Will do... looks interesting.... bit ghostly.... let me see if I can clarify this up... ah - there we go.." |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 1:12pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 12:43pm:
Are you aware of a time the thing the boomers are crying about actually happened? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 26th, 2022 at 1:13pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 12:54pm:
You're not cut out for this. Age may has't weari'd thee, but years not wisen'd. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 26th, 2022 at 3:32pm FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 12:28pm:
:D Step into you library, wazzock. Or are you travelling? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 3:34pm Frank wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 3:32pm:
Weirdly, books I bought in the past have no list of recent movies. I think you made it all up TBH. Listing a couple of films would be easy if they exist |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 26th, 2022 at 3:38pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 12:43pm:
An all-Japanese or Indian or Nigerian cast in Tokyo, Delhi of Lagos is obviously different to having a token Japanese etc in a staging in the original Shakespearean English where the the token guys adds nothing but jarring distraction preening as diversity and inclusion. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 3:42pm Frank wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 3:38pm:
Is this STILL 'poo you made up'? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 3:46pm
There should be a full movie about this 'frontier war' around Appin..... just as it happened...... that'd make a nice change.....
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Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 3:48pm Frank wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 3:32pm:
That old fullah there - he travel the universe... he see the stars... he see the moon... he see it all in his mind.... in this tribe he called a confused fullah..... one his son think he like boy and girl - the other think he be girl.... but he don' like smack in the head like uppity lubra... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 3:50pm
I love that I said I have a trans son and this dumb prick thought I meant someone with a penis. HAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!
I also love he's so obsessed with me that I stopped answering him a week ago and he can't stop talking about me. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 3:51pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 1:13pm:
Ha, ha, ha - you make good laughter in you lack of understanding that India, Japan and Nigeria are not Scotland.... It's one thing to have a Muslim kidnap victim in Slow Horses I, who gets the last word to his Nationalist captors - "You make me ashamed to be British!" He's a good Muslim of the First Kind - Civilised and Assimilated.... it's another to even suggest that Macbeth was Japanese etc while in Britain... Just a bit of flummery for entertainment, nothing more. I leave you for dead every day... suck on it. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 3:55pm FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 3:50pm:
You mean you trans son isn't a male at all? Then how is hsehe a son? That's a daughter.... wow - what a sick family... so confused ..... Obsessed with you? You're the sucker who keeps coming back and trying to come back with something witty.... and keeps mentioning how you don't want to talk .... then you do..... Pilloried again.... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D yardle, yardle... Just looking for my quote from the Dali Lama so I can alter it to fit..... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 3:59pm
*laugh react*
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Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 26th, 2022 at 4:03pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 3:51pm:
Yep. You're not cut out for this. Shakespeare's longevity is down to his plays' dramatising universal themes of the human condition - his plays work everywhere they are translated (for those who do not speak English), notwithstanding that Macbeth spoke Middle Gaelic, not Shakespearean English - so much for historical accuracy. Shakespeare did not bother to consult the descendants of Macbeth nor anyone from the Macbeth clan. He didn't need to. He wasn't writing history - he was flattering a king with a myth. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 4:04pm FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 3:59pm:
Ammo locker empty, eh? Getting hysterical? Why not go the Ad Generationem again? Silly old Import Eickhardt just tried that one.... lost like a Cheese at Appin.... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 4:07pm
*laugh react*
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Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 4:14pm FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 4:07pm:
Is that all you have to say about the dead Cheeses at Appin and the white women and children they killed before that? Sick boy ... Next ep is Tasmania... that should be a beauty....... eradicated in 1842 and now a higher percentage of Aboriginal claimants than the mainland... greater comeback than Cassius Clay.... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 4:17pm
*LAUGH REACT*
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Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 4:18pm
Pascorigines.........a New Breed....
|
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 26th, 2022 at 4:37pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 25th, 2022 at 7:56pm:
Much of the world is in trouble, as Guterres said (to which your reply was: zzzzzzzzzzzz, - an indication of your grasp of reality. Now, the reason why people want to rewrite black history in Oz is to provide an explaination of why the egregious and disgraceful gap exists. But like I said, the survival and transition of an illiterate hunter-gatherer society which possessed no technology at all (apart from animal skins for clothing in cold regions?) is an extremely complex task. You were on course with your previous post: assisted training to enter the modern world's economy. To be sure, if you want to measure the cost of this training in dollars, and force the government to tax and borrow the money from the private sector, the project loses its appeal..... But Oz has all the resources it needs to train 100K or more blacks to enter the modern economy. However, since everyone's fooled by the current central bank arrangements, that task won't be achieved. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 4:39pm thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 4:37pm:
First Australians had a lot more technology than that but yes, they were ripped from their way of life into one they did not know |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 26th, 2022 at 4:47pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 12:43pm:
Disney Chooses Bald Actress To Play Rapunzel In Live-Action Remake U.S. — Disney has chosen a bald actress to play Rapunzel in the upcoming live-action remake of Tangled. Director Guy Ritchie announced the casting at a press conference alongside Disney CEO Bob Chapek. "We are thrilled to have this mega-talented bald actress joining us to star in this film," said Ritchie. "She has long been an outspoken advocate for the alopecia community and we know she'll lend her unique lived experience as a person of baldness to the iconic role of Rapunzel." Several fans were upset with the casting, pointing out that the actress is bald, while Rapunzel has hair. "I'm all for diversity," said Disney fan Janet Cutler. "My pronouns are Xe / Xer. But this is a bit too far. Rapunzel is supposed to have hair. It's sort of core to the entire story." Another Disney fan echoed the sentiment. "Rapunzel, Rapunzel, let down your hair," said Disney fan Andrew Steeplechase. "That's one of the key quotes in the story. I'm not sure that works as well with a bald Rapunzel." Historians and experts pushed back against the desire for a haired Rapunzel. "Demanding that Disney cast Rapunzel — a fictional character I might add — with an actor who has hair, is simply ableist, sexist, racist, and several other -ists," said Sandra Rice, the chair of Harvard's Folklore and Mythology department. "Sadly, this is another example of the white cis-hetero patriarchal system that we live in." Rice then began to sob. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 4:52pm
Rapunzel... Rapunzel!!!! Let down your hair!!! ............ so she threw her pet rabbit from the top of the tower....................then slowly died of starvation ..................
|
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 26th, 2022 at 5:02pm Frank wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 4:47pm:
Keep crying about a mermaid, you useless child |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 26th, 2022 at 5:13pm Frank wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 3:38pm:
In Shakespeare's time, female roles in his plays were acted by men. Were his contemporary audiences jarred and distracted from his plays and their themes by that, I wonder. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 5:26pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 5:13pm:
So? Women were considered too precious to be (gasps) actors ..... what is your point? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 26th, 2022 at 5:47pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 5:26pm:
Again, you're not cut out for this. Was the historical Lady Macbeth a man, do you think? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 7:12pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 5:47pm:
Do you have difficulty understanding that men acting as women on stage hundreds of years ago in a different time had nothing at all to do with anything except that the life of a traveling actor was hard and women were not considered suitable for it? they were acting PARTS on stage - not 'being' women. Anyway - that has not one thing to do with Blacks, Japanese, Indians or anything else - the parts played were English, French, Scottish, Danish WHITE men and women. Those are the facts. You're just not cut out for this, are you? You do much better when you stop trying to put me down and stick to the issues instead of acting like another child here - I am a far superior person to most of you in every way. Just accept your place as second dog.... you'll be fine..... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 26th, 2022 at 7:19pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 7:12pm:
The point is, Shakespeare's contemporary audiences could see past the actors and into the soul of the play. Why can't you? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 7:28pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 7:19pm:
Watchu talking about? I never said they couldn't have foreigners playing the parts of Scottish Lairds etc.... but it's only for the sake of something a little different.... Again you fail to see that discussing simple realities is not a condemnation of alternatives.... it is what it is - a simple confirmation that the parts were NOT written for 'others'...... Jeez - even Twelve Angry Men now has become first Twelve Angry Personas, and now Twelve Distressed Non-specific Gender Individuals ... Citizen Corporal Punishment....... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 7:37pm
"There's be tinted birds at equal height to
The Non-Black and Oppressor Cliffs of Dover...." Snow Non-Tinted and the Seven Vertically Diverse Non-gender Specified Persons... (they prefer the term Dweerves) ... The Little Mermaid - a gay parable in which a female Mermaid wishes to transition into a Female Human so as to connect with a Male Human Prince... *scratches head in disbelief at the utter stupidity involved in this kind of twisting of a simple tale*.... how about The Little Merman, who wishes to transition into a Human Female so as to hook up with a Male Human Prince... that'd fit the narrative better...... as long as the Merm wasn't Caucasian White or something... I'm dreaming of a non-tinted Christmas....i |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 26th, 2022 at 7:46pm
Anyway when is the next episode of Australian Propaganda Wars on? You know - A Goebbels Production.... the episode in which we will see the heroic defence of their homeland by the Tasmanian Aborigines who died to a person defending their land, wiped out entirely in 1842 - and yet made a comeback that beats Johnny Farnham/Dame Nelly Melba and Cassius Clay by a country mile...
Identifying as Indigenous must be good business... mind you north eastern Tasmania has the highest rate of mental illness in Australia..... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Setanta on Sep 26th, 2022 at 8:32pm Quote:
|
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 27th, 2022 at 7:40am Setanta wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 8:32pm:
Are you an alcoholic? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 27th, 2022 at 9:44am
G
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 5:13pm:
Heavily disguised, of course, so as to appear like women. It's more analogous to blackface minstrels than to African MacBeths. Could we now have white actors playing Bennelong? Or Porgy and Bess? Uncle Remus? https://youtu.be/loXiGSe9l4A |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 27th, 2022 at 9:48am Frank wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 9:44am:
So you accept that people with a penis can look like women if they try? good |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 27th, 2022 at 9:50am FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 9:48am:
Only if they are blackface minstrels. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 27th, 2022 at 9:51am
Looking like is nowhere near being... silly idea.
:D :D :D :D :D |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 27th, 2022 at 9:53am Setanta wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 8:32pm:
Nice quote.... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 27th, 2022 at 9:56am Frank wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 9:44am:
Notwithstanding that the audience knew it was a man playing a woman. It's more than likely the moral standards of the day did not jar or distract audiences from suspending incredulity or recoiling from Lady Macbeth's performance or Juliet's in Romeo and Juliet. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 27th, 2022 at 10:08am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 9:56am:
Yup - didn't mean the actors were poofs or anything much more sinister.... you know.... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 27th, 2022 at 10:12am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 10:08am:
Apparently, many actors were uncomfortable with performing or performing with Shakespeare's female characters. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 27th, 2022 at 10:18am
Importantly, the reasons, motivations for men playing female parts in the 17th century and Africans playing Scots in the 21st - or indeed women playing Hamlet or a man playing Jul it et today - could not be more different and so totally unrelated.
|
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 27th, 2022 at 10:28am Frank wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 10:18am:
They are all a response to the socio-cultural sensibilities and moral boundaries of the times. Myths are not history and speak to universal human values. They are not contingent on historical fact as their authors diverge from history (or ignore it altogether) to make their point. Because of that, a play's rendition can follow the sensibilities of the day without straying from those universal themes. Religion is a prime example of this. Those religions that permit images of their key historical (or ahistorical) figures, invariably embrace a myriad of interpretations of those images. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 27th, 2022 at 10:29am Frank wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 10:18am:
Irrelevant. LOL!!! |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 27th, 2022 at 10:37am
I can't remember any complaints about jarring and distraction due to the departure from 'history' of this rendition of Romeo and Juliet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JoOpx6VwHk |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 27th, 2022 at 10:55am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 10:28am:
The point: different reasons and motivations. The SAME motivations and reasons that cast Denzel Washington as McBeth would prohibit the casting of Leonardo Di Caprio as Ghandi or Bennelong or Malcolm X. No universal theme would be harmed, no historic detail would be altered - EXCEPT the crucial details of who Ghandi, Bennelong or Malcolm X actually were or what they represented. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 27th, 2022 at 10:57am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 10:37am:
Black Hamlet - just a bit of modern day fun to add spice to a production.... most would see it as a bit of spice and not as some mega-statement of reality................... Look at these Chinese here:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72UhlIJBPfw |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 27th, 2022 at 11:10am Frank wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 10:55am:
The universal theme is right wing idiots comparing the casting of a fictional character, with a historical one |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 27th, 2022 at 11:24am Frank wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 10:55am:
Did you start a thread over Hamilton? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 27th, 2022 at 11:28am Frank wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 10:55am:
Ethnicity identified by skin colour was not a theme Shakespeare wove into his myth of Macbeth, which is why it is unimportant. Unlike Shylock, who must be a Jew - while skin colour would be irrelevant to the story. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 27th, 2022 at 11:36am
And then there's Turandot, taken by Puccini from a Persian myth and set in China.
Is Nessun Dorma any less majestic because of its retelling? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 27th, 2022 at 11:41am MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 11:36am:
You are floating away on unmoored associations. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 27th, 2022 at 11:42am Frank wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 11:41am:
You are crying about a black mermaid LOL!!! |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 27th, 2022 at 11:46am Frank wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 11:41am:
A myth's universal human themes can be recast and retold without regard to ethnicity. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 27th, 2022 at 12:47pm
They've got black mermaids now? When did that happen?
Anyway - Macbeth was a Scottish laird and white as the snow.... the point about Gandhi takes this argument. A White Nelson Mandela - now there's a thought.... starring Matt Damon as Mandela Holly Hunter as his wife Al Pacino as the 7' Rugby player special appearance by Danny de Vito as a 6'5" Zulu warrior bodyguard |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 27th, 2022 at 12:50pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 11:46am:
... as long as you reset the setting.... Hamlet as the Zulu Prince wondering why his daddy Shaka copped an accidental spear while hunting..... Fortinbras could be the British Army crossing the river to get at them... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 27th, 2022 at 12:57pm
If culture is life why is only one culture considered life? There's the rub..... does it depend entirely on the level of screeching and crying in the streets surrounded by a crowd of sycophants mourning the passing of your culture dead for over two hundred years?
What culture is there to preserve? Rock paintings mostly are... artefacts in museums.... a few skulls and skels to show the differences.... dioramas to show the complexity of living around a fire ... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Ron on Sep 27th, 2022 at 4:44pm
You're being kind to them Grapps.
|
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 27th, 2022 at 5:00pm Ron wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 4:44pm:
He's ranting like the brain dead racist old man he is |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 27th, 2022 at 5:27pm Yadda wrote on Sep 11th, 2022 at 10:25pm:
In Conversation with Rachel Perkins, the creator of the Australian Wars. Interesting but I couldn't help noticing the persistent linguistic and conceptual slants. https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/conversations/conversations-rachel-perkins-the-australian-wars/14060842 I do not think there is anything factually or historically new in this or other contemporary re-telling of how Australia was colonised. My sense of the coming 'truth telling' is that it us going to be the cementing of this persistent linguistic and conceptual slant. A re-telling of history by the I have virtually no sympathy for the drunken, drug-addled, violent, neglectful self-degradation and abandonment of any responsibility for much of what is self-inflicted and the wallowing in self-pity - by anyone, Aboriginal or not. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 27th, 2022 at 5:29pm Frank wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 5:27pm:
Oh. Look |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 27th, 2022 at 5:35pm FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 5:29pm:
You should listen to that Conversation, ya ignorant nutter. Or not - you wouldn't be able to leave your eyewateringly stupid, kooky comments on The Conversations website. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 27th, 2022 at 6:23pm Frank wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 5:35pm:
Your tears energise me |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 27th, 2022 at 6:50pm FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 6:23pm:
You are both demented and triggered... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 27th, 2022 at 7:07pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 6:50pm:
Offered him meds but he wouldn't take them. So now I am the cat playing with a mentally corrupt idiotic mouse with an antifa armband and with all his legs broken. No cure, no redemption. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 27th, 2022 at 7:14pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 12:47pm:
So, you can't tell the difference between a play, based on a myth, written to dramatise aspects of the human condition, and a historical biopic. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 27th, 2022 at 7:19pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 7:14pm:
Doesn't matter - play Macbeth In Nigeria for all I care... you know like Baz Luhrmann ..... blokes at parties running around in astronaut suits.... simple really ... I prithee put down your rapiers! Or Hamlet - I prithee take thy fingers from my throat.... Lady Macbethasama:- "Hai! Is this a katana I see before mine eyes? Wah!" |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 27th, 2022 at 7:22pm
It seems the consensus is that this series is a sort of 'truth-telling' re-enactment... not a documentary.
Here's the blurb for the first ep:- "Episode 1 57m The story of Australia's first wars, calling for the nation to acknowledge the First Peoples who died in these conflicts and for the Australian War Memorial to recognise them." https://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/tv-series/the-australian-wars/season-1 No mention of the murdered White women and children and White men.... just another one way street.... racism writ large, so stuff 'em! You don't recognise murderers in the War Memorial - the Black Anzacs are already there. If you can't see that - get your hand off it. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 27th, 2022 at 9:40pm FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 6:23pm:
:D :D People shite and piss on you 24/7 and you think it's tears just because it's wet. Keep talking, let's see what else you misunderstand completely. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 27th, 2022 at 10:08pm
I can just imagine Lefty's 'polite' conversation that causes him to be banned. We see here every day his version of 'facts', 'debate', 'morality' and courtesy.
I'd like to know how anyone blocked from multiple discussions could even begin to imagine it's always the 'other side's' fault and not his, and how he can equate interaction with one site with everyone else he encounters who doesn't agree with him. The boy is clearly insane or fourteen years old. Never going to learn, though. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 28th, 2022 at 7:29am Frank wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 5:27pm:
So...poverty is self-inflicted.... At least Labor has agreed with Noel Pearson to maintain the CDC in Cape York, to reduce harm. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 28th, 2022 at 7:41am Frank wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 9:40pm:
The whole point is that this forum is full of right wing scum who I easily prove to be lying, and the fact you're in a circle jerk changes nothing |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by mothra on Sep 28th, 2022 at 7:51am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 7:22pm:
What "consensus"? The few reasonable people i've seen commenting on this thread all said it was an interesting documentary. Then there's you repeating yourself for pages about "re-enactments" .. because that'sw as far as you got into the first episode. The fact is this is a well researched documentary with interviews from major historians and wonderfully interspersed with stories of true healing and unity. As one of prestigious academics interview end in this "re-enactment" said, you don;t need to dig too deep at all to come up with tis written history. And it's about time it was told. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by mothra on Sep 28th, 2022 at 7:52am FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 7:41am:
I wouldn't have put it so bluntly but you're not wrong. What's the bet Crappler whinges until he gets you banned for that one? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 28th, 2022 at 8:39am mothra wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 7:52am:
Naturally. I am ignoring him and he still replies to me constantly, he's triggered and upset. He thinks a ban would hurt me. It merely amuses me that I scare them so much |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 28th, 2022 at 9:32am FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 7:41am:
I posted a link to an interview with maker of the Australian Wars and commented on rhetoric. That - and practically everything else - is right wing fascism to your addled, befogged brain. You bandy that about at the rate of 100 posts a day. You cannot make an intelligent post to save your sorry, manic life but call your repetitious bubbling and frothing about 'right wing fascism' debate and everyone who points out your foggy and swampy outlook is 'running from debate'. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 28th, 2022 at 9:39am FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 7:41am:
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Here we go with that old Lefty 'proof' and politeness..... So prove anyone is lying... we're still waiting... or not really given that all you do is abuse people. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 28th, 2022 at 9:40am mothra wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 7:52am:
You'd have done better to just stay quiet and try to make some valid points instead of sledging. Lefty is always wrong... takes his cue from you. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 28th, 2022 at 9:45am
That little blurb for Ep 1 tells it all - this is a propaganda piece aimed at getting the murderers of women and children listed in the War Memorial as some kind of heroes.
Now that's something I'd like to see ... FYI - they murdered -they lost. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 28th, 2022 at 9:47am Frank wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 9:32am:
If my posts are all stupid, why are you all scared to debate me? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 28th, 2022 at 9:55am FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 9:47am:
:D You cannot make an intelligent post to save your sorry, manic life but call your repetitious bubbling and frothing about 'right wing fascism' debate and everyone who points out your foggy and swampy outlook is 'running from debate'. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 28th, 2022 at 10:14am Frank wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 9:55am:
I am not shocked you can't answer me LOL. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 28th, 2022 at 10:23am FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 10:14am:
Why bother with repetitious bubbling and frothing about 'right wing fascism' without a single mote of anything beyond rhetoric? Why don't you answer yourself? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 28th, 2022 at 10:24am
*snip the insane ramblings of an old right wing fool I have shamed many times*
|
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 28th, 2022 at 10:25am FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 10:24am:
Laugh a minute... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 28th, 2022 at 10:26am
Anyway - those murderers of women and children will not be listed in the war memorial.
What kind of stupid idea is that? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 28th, 2022 at 11:57am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 7:22pm:
Well, that's what war is, with one side justifying the murder of the other side. What happened 200 years ago is one thing, but the fact that war between groups and nations is STILL legal is another thing altogether, in the age of MAD; and you are complicit in the insanity. Insanity...got it? In fact, the UN is close to falling apart because of this insanity which demands the legality of war as a means of dispute settlement between groups and nations be maintained. Once groups or nations are involved in war, you know insanity has taken over, because no group or nation is composed of all good or all bad individuals. That's why rule of law at the international level - to outlaw war between groups or nations - is required. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 28th, 2022 at 12:36pm thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 11:57am:
These were franc tireurs - not formal combatants on behalf of a nation... and terrorists striking at women and children ... No reason to discuss the insanity of those persons with me...... I'm way ahead of you .... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 28th, 2022 at 12:39pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 10:26am:
Someone tell Grappy about all our WWI memorials..... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 28th, 2022 at 1:58pm FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 12:39pm:
We have Aboriginal murderers on all those? Arcturi Prime... Arcturi Prime - are you receiving? *shhhhhhhhhhh* You are getting sillier and sillier as you run out of ammo, son... only actual Aboriginal Veterans share on those memorials... not this kind ..... they didn't go to war for this country - they went to war AGAINST it... they can't be represented in the White Man's Memorial that they tried to genocide out long ago.... Silliest thing I ever heard... the kind of nonsense you'd expect from the 'left' here these days.... with all their vivid imagination......... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 28th, 2022 at 2:00pm |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 28th, 2022 at 2:54pm
Anzac was 20th century full scale war - not 18th and 19th brush war - nothing whatsoever to do with frontier wars.
You can bet a sheila wrote this one! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 28th, 2022 at 2:59pm
LOL!!!!
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Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 28th, 2022 at 3:14pm
Lefty out of ammo...
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 28th, 2022 at 3:15pm
Grappler isn't grasping that I am ignoring him and laughing at him, is he?
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Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 28th, 2022 at 3:49pm FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 3:15pm:
We can see that.... Roy Rogers' horse... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 28th, 2022 at 4:49pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 12:36pm:
There you go, justifying the murders carried out by one group against another group - whether black on black, black on white (for being invaded), white on black (in retaliation - or being threatened by spears), or white on white. Quote:
Read the above, and consider your stance...... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 28th, 2022 at 9:28pm
Not justifying anything - just analysing events and commenting on facts.
As Jordan Peterson said - discussing and analysing something doesn't mean you approve or disapprove of it... it's discussion and analysis.... You see - that's what marks the very real difference between the true intellectual and the dilettante... the simple ability to discuss without taking sides..... Analysing something and coming up with a different conclusion to the one some here are pushing means they will start to call you names and try to belittle you and your position, rather than discussing the issue itself. It's a form of immaturity.... The Cheeses killed, in historical reports, women and children alone at farms. They copped it in return, though the women and children were spared when possible by the Settlers/Soldiers. All the verbal histories are coming from women primarily in this program - they all discuss how their great whatever-grandma survived to be placed in civilisation. In passing - all of those Tasmanian Cheeses tonight (I missed the whole program), were whiter than I am and unrecognisable as Cheeses without their saying so. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by John Smith on Sep 28th, 2022 at 9:36pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 9:28pm:
crappler by name, crap by nature You're not discussing and analyzing anything, You're arguing for your already formed opinion. All you do is reject out of hand anything contrary to your position and when called on it you play the 'i'm just discussing it' card .... You and Jordan should learn the difference |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 28th, 2022 at 9:58pm John Smith wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 9:36pm:
Nice joke..... thanks for coming... ;) I have no dog in the tranny stakes..... but when I see flaws in its nonsense... well, you know.... As for the Cheeses - silly idea to include them in a war memorial.... the Tasso RSL might have an idea - a separate memorial.... but frankly ... 29 survivors? What happened to Trugannini being the last in 1842? And How did 29 translate into a current 4% of the population down there? Well - by massive interbreeding to the near-extinction of the Indigenous genes..... I'm darker than all of them .... why aren't all those White people down there proud of their White heritage and march for that? Bonus question:- Did Tasmania have a separate Invasion day or is this just part of the fairy tale? I may defend my position once I work it through - but I do it very well.... and generally without vile comments on others, apart from the occasional few who thoroughly deserve it in return. Bit like Appin, eh? The Cheeses kill at least sixteen White people including defenceless women and children BEFORE the Appin Massacre, where the children and women were spared where possible..... and nobody carries on about the White people killed.... only the fourteen Cheeses at Appin who were in arms. Most would say:- Far Chem! |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 29th, 2022 at 8:41am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 9:28pm:
You are justifying the murder of blacks who murdered whites for intruding into their lands. Quote:
Peterson is a 'personal resonsibility' Randian who doesn't understand the complexities of interpersonal relationships between individuals and individuals in groups and nations. (Rand's 'rational mind' thesis is rendered irrational by instinct). Quote:
Your partisanship in the 'black wars' is all too evident. Quote:
No doubt Quote:
Rand and Peterson aren't immature, just committed to irrational analysis re the 'rational' mind. Quote:
No doubt - it's territorial instinct....and the unarmed are 'fair game'...... Quote:
Partisan comment; black women and children were also massacred in the 'black wars'. Quote:
Yes, they were and still are traumatized by the enforced loss of culture, in the transition to the modern world. Quote:
Yes, white people calling themselves black is irrational, despite their justifications for affirming their "blackness". |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 29th, 2022 at 12:52pm
Not at all - I'm stating the realities. I remain impartial, though disturbed at the wanton murder of innocents, and will admit that actually looking at the events has diminished my sympathy for the Aborigines, who are touted as innocents set upon for no reason and murdered to clear them off. that's the line that's been handed around for years now and without looking into it, I would never have thought differently - though clearly some still swallow that whole without a single thought of their own.
Clearly they were nothing of the sort..... I have no dog in the frontier wars that took place, long, long ago, and have zero bearing on modern day Australia.... I merely stand back and look impartially at it and see the flaws in the propaganda. I didn't notice any of those Tasmanian 'Aborigines' rejecting the culture they now live in with all its benefits... and with the clear women shortage down there, it is doubtful that many of the men would have been breeding with white women, but certain that many of the women would be breeding with white men - so their gene pool would by now be very thin. Only in recent years has it become trendy to identify as Aboriginal - there must be benefits in that, since nobody in his or her right mind would willingly do so if that group was as oppressed as the claims make out. Some of my teenage friends were significantly Aboriginal - my brother married one of them - and it made not one whit of difference at that time, including in their ability to find work and study at uni etc - one's wife is a professor now, and her family are significantly Aboriginal as well. Oh - and for those of you who speak scornfully of the 'civilised' tribes living in Whiteyland (never having been 'cleared out') in the 1800's - they now own Goat Island... there are benefits in the White Man's Way.... and much sympathy for those who know how to look for it. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 29th, 2022 at 12:56pm
Culture Is Life - so now we are looking at the concept that all cultures are equal but that some are more equal than others? If you belong to a trendy group your culture is divine and must be protected and rebuilt at all costs, even at the expense of all other cultures around you, and most specifically, the very one that nurtures you and your culture?
Social Science taken to a new level of insanity. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by AusGeoff on Sep 29th, 2022 at 1:32pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 29th, 2022 at 12:52pm:
Some facts about Tasmanian Aborigines. Tasmania (known then as Van Diemen’s Land until 1855) was occupied for at least 30,000 years by a hunter-gatherer people, the Tasmanian Aborigines, whose population in 1803 was estimated at 7,000 individuals from an original population of 15,000. Contrary to a long and widely held belief that they were a stone age people who were destined to die out as a result of 10,000 years of isolation from the Australian mainland, more recent research indicates that they were a dynamic people who not only reshaped their culture and society during the Holocene, but were increasing in population at British colonisation in 1803. By 1835 only one Aboriginal family remained in Tasmania. The vast majority had been killed, or had died from introduced disease, or had been forcibly removed from their homeland. The only survivors were those who escaped government control—in a sealing community on the Bass Strait islands. British imperial genocide at its best... or worst. >:( |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Sep 29th, 2022 at 1:44pm AusGeoff wrote on Sep 29th, 2022 at 1:32pm:
Well, it was done to the thylacine. No reason to think the colonists and their overlords would not have done the same to Tasmanian aboriginals as part of land clearing for their grazing farm animals, and done for the same reasons to aboriginals as thylacines. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 29th, 2022 at 1:48pm
Very difficult to come up with anything near definitive figures for the casualties in The Tasmanian War - estimates vary wildly and many incidents were not reported. Causes and reasons for conflict are dependent upon who is telling the story...
Do you include all those who died of disease in the figures of 'genocide'? You can only do that if it was deliberate. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 29th, 2022 at 1:54pm
"By 1835 only one Aboriginal family remained in Tasmania. "
So clearly their gene pool would be much diluted - are they or have they in any way been disadvantaged compared to other Tasmanians? Were they excluded from the vote until 1967, for example? Were they restricted in the jobs they could do, like my hair-cutter's father was? Can't find anything about Tasmanians specifically in the suffrage discussions... apparently they were not considered Indigenous enough to be excluded from voting. Hmmmm ...... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 29th, 2022 at 1:54pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 29th, 2022 at 1:44pm:
Correct. We thought they were not human. Right wing people still think that |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 29th, 2022 at 2:15pm FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 29th, 2022 at 1:54pm:
Really? How many of these Right wing people do you mix with to know that? Or are you just making this up? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 29th, 2022 at 8:25pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 29th, 2022 at 12:52pm:
....that Spain destroyed the Aztec Empire, and the UK destroyed the Oz black hunter-gatherer culture. Plenty of atrocities on both sides in either case, as is always the case with war. Quote:
I don't see impartiality, I see condemnation of black atrocities and denial of white atrocities; all calculated - if unconsciously - to support your propostion of black responsibility for their present egregious circumstances in the modern Oz economy. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 29th, 2022 at 10:05pm
To every individual their culture is life - it's not just restricted to primitives you know.... all this St Aboriginus BS has got to stop... standing on top of Mt Warning for the morning sun is a religious experience for
EVERYONE in a national park... Take Back The Farm!! Just saying for a friend ..... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 29th, 2022 at 10:06pm thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 29th, 2022 at 8:25pm:
What you see and fail to see is not my problem... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 29th, 2022 at 10:33pm thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 29th, 2022 at 8:25pm:
The Stone Age is over. Anyone who wants to stay Stone Age is obliterated. Nobody is going to build them a museum to live in. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 30th, 2022 at 1:46am is a pile of stones, and the name of the latest pest, And the epitaph drear, A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the West. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by mothra on Sep 30th, 2022 at 6:25am
I keep telling you sad old white guys, you're on the wrong side of history:
Australian War Memorial promises ‘much broader, deeper’ depiction of frontier wars Move comes after AWM faced criticism for sparse presentation of atrocities against Indigenous Australians during colonisation The Australian War Memorial says it will expand its recognition of the frontier wars, the atrocities and massacres against Indigenous Australians during colonisation. The memorial has faced criticism for its sparse depiction of the frontier wars, including from Indigenous leaders who say it fails to properly reflect the magnitude of conflicts at the heart of Australia’s history. The AWM chair, Brendan Nelson, said the memorial’s governing council had decided they will have a “much broader, a much deeper depiction and presentation of the violence committed against Indigenous people, initially by British, then by pastoralists, then by police, and then by Aboriginal militia”. “We will have more to say about that in due course.” Nelson defended the memorial’s current recognition of the frontier wars, saying it was reflected throughout the memorial, including in 63 separate artworks. The frontier wars, according to conservative estimates, caused the deaths of at least 20,000 Indigenous Australians at the hands of Australian-based military regiments, police forces and settlers’ militia from 1788 to 1928. The battle for sovereignty is considered a critical but often untold part of Australia’s history. The Australian War Memorial Act, which governs the memorial, is frequently cited as a limitation on frontier war recognition. The Act gives the institution discretion to tell the combat story of military forces of the crown raised in Australia before and after the establishment of the commonwealth, but the AWM has said its mission “does not extend beyond the experience of deployed Australian forces overseas in war and in peace”. The AWM has previously said it was up to the National Museum of Australia to tell the story of the frontier wars. The veterans’ affairs minister, Matt Keogh, said on Thursday the current $550m expansion of the memorial would allow for a greater recognition of the frontier wars. “I think it’s important to recognise that the war memorial already has some recognition of frontier conflict, and I’m aware that as part of the expansion program there will be some greater reflection on that,” he said. “I think that the recognition and reflection on frontier conflict is a responsibility for all of our cultural institutions, not just here at the war memorial.” https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/sep/29/australian-war-memorial-promises-much-broader-deeper-depiction-of-frontier-wars?CMP=soc_567&fbclid=IwAR18BKi0jQ7DR2jCfUc2WOZTk-dTtlfFRYrABN5MMasTBHU3BCTviAwVdII |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 30th, 2022 at 10:10am mothra wrote on Sep 30th, 2022 at 6:25am:
;D ;D ;D That is such an idiotic thing to say, mothy. As if YOU knew the (correct) flow and destiny of history! |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 30th, 2022 at 10:17am Frank wrote on Sep 30th, 2022 at 10:10am:
The saying means, history is moving in a clear direction and you are opposing it lol. IT's not about the future, but what is happening now |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 30th, 2022 at 10:28am FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 30th, 2022 at 10:17am:
And what is that clear direction? And what are the values TODAY that decide its future 'clear direction', the values that are forecasting its future 'right side'. Mothy and progressives generally do not realise that they - following Marx- are buying into the Judeo-Christian straightening of history, from the circularity of all nature religions to an arrow that flies to a determined destination, a redemption. In short you are projecting your wishes onto the future. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by FutureTheLeftWant on Sep 30th, 2022 at 10:35am Frank wrote on Sep 30th, 2022 at 10:28am:
The saying means, history is moving in a clear direction and you are opposing it lol. IT's not about the future, but what is happening now [/quote] And what is that clear direction? And what are the values TODAY that decide its future 'clear direction', the values that are forecasting its future 'right side'. Mothy and progressives generally do not realise that they - following Marx- are buying into the Judeo-Christian straightening of history, from the circularity of all nature religions to an arrow that flies to a determined destination, a redemption. In short you are projecting your wishes onto the future. [/quote] In short you are clinging to the past and society has moved on. I love when you ignorant old people rant about Marx. This is not Marxism lol |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 30th, 2022 at 11:38am Frank wrote on Sep 30th, 2022 at 10:10am:
Er....the flow of history which is coming to recognise the black victims in the frontier wars, as worthy of remembrance, as for all victims of war. (I think the war memorial should be converted to a museum: as Trump said: "war is for losers"). |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Sep 30th, 2022 at 11:53am Quote:
In short you are clinging to the past and society has moved on. I love when you ignorant old people rant about Marx. This is not Marxism lol [/quote] So what is the clear direction of history? A FutureTheLeftWankTo? Don't run away crying when you are asked a question. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 30th, 2022 at 11:55am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 29th, 2022 at 10:06pm:
It most certainly is. I pointed to examples of your partisanship, which you are apparently unable to refute. I'll clarify it for you: "I don't see the impartiality you claim to possess; like any objective observer, I do see your partisan condemnation of black atrocities and denial of white atrocities; all calculated - if unconsciously - to support your propostion of black responsibility for their present egregious circumstances in the modern Oz economy My explanation of your partisanship is one thing, but your partisanship itself is not in doubt, as any objective reader of your posts would agree. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 30th, 2022 at 12:01pm Frank wrote on Sep 29th, 2022 at 10:33pm:
hence the need to assist the survivors of the passing of stone age culture, into the modern economy. Non blacks have had c.10K years to adapt and change, Oz blacks only 2 centuries. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 30th, 2022 at 12:26pm thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 30th, 2022 at 12:01pm:
Our modern economy style has only been in play for 100 years or so and is constantly changing.... hardly ten thousand years. The blacks already know how to get on in the modern society - they choose not to. Partly that is their poor parenting style and such, and their propensity for abuse and settling things with their fists, but they know how to get on if they want to. No bastard who stole their land is going to tell them what to do!! So they live a never-ending slowly collapsing disaster ... Perhaps the best way is to simply turn off the money taps and force them to work it out for themselves.... no workee - no money .... go hunt up a meal in your cultural tradition. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 30th, 2022 at 12:41pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 30th, 2022 at 12:26pm:
The journey from the stone age - for non blacks - progressed in relatively small steps over 10K years. Your failure to understand that will now result in the following typical GIGO from you: Quote:
Not those living in remote areas - which are the subject of the (misplaced) 'voice'. Quote:
Like I said, your original prosposition was wrong, and hence GIGO, as always with you. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 30th, 2022 at 12:49pm
Culture is life for everyone.... honour your own and then just live and let live... end of discussion.
Every farmer is attached to the land.... every person is spiritually uplifted by the rising sun from atop Mt Warning... there is nothing special about any of those things that demands they be adhered to any single group. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 30th, 2022 at 12:53pm
Maybe it's time to call the end to multi-culturalism, save all this needless trouble.
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Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 30th, 2022 at 1:15pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 30th, 2022 at 12:49pm:
No, economics is more important - on a day to day basis - than culture. "It's the economy. stupid". Quote:
Addressed above. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 30th, 2022 at 1:24pm
Ah - so f*ck the Abo claim to culture and cultural rights - and force them into the economy!
Brilliant - now how do you propose to go about that? Life's too good clinging to the life raft of their culture and their 'stolen land' and so forth - whine enough and you'll get plenty to get by on that nobody else gets... all out of the government purse - but that's just a start on the 'rent money' eh? HOW do you propose to take an Abo off a settlement on a lovely tropical beach, drinking rum every night etc.. and put him into a M-F job all day involving work - when he can collect his social security and go fishing all day and have plenty to live on? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Sep 30th, 2022 at 1:47pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 30th, 2022 at 1:24pm:
Dear me; see how your partisanship has you going around in circles. We agree the stone age is passed, even if some blacks refuse to accept the fact, on the basis of remembered culture. Therefore we have to assist - not "force" - these people into the modern economy (with CDEP-type programs) In fact WE have no choice, if we want to 'close the gap' - which is the only acceptable outcome. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Sep 30th, 2022 at 3:17pm thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 30th, 2022 at 1:47pm:
Nay, sir it is thee who art going around in circles based on YOUR partisanship (your partisans are speaking to you in a culture dead for over two hundred years).... YOU are the one talking about assisting without saying how you will get them to co-operate... therefore your only recourse is to compel them to assist them ... in order to save them from themselves you must destroy them ..... Again - What Is Your FIRM Proposal to get all those people onside with your scheme? .... sandy beaches... drinking rum every night..... Easy to understand? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Oct 1st, 2022 at 9:16pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 30th, 2022 at 3:17pm:
Oh...dense one (excuse my exasperation)....my partisans want to transition the survivors from the defunct black culture, into the modern world. Quote:
Cooperation was forthcoming where the CDEP was instituted, and drunkeness and crime reduced. Quote:
Simplicity itself noted above (employment improves morale); but it's beyond you. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 1st, 2022 at 9:54pm
Until you explain how exactly you are going to implement changes towards a productive trained workforce among Aboriginals, along with their willing co-operation to actually engage in such a process - you are going nowhere.
Now stop being silly and using silly and puerile insults - how are you going to get the Aborigines to engage in your idea? How do you plan to get their willing co-operation? What will you do when they don't co-operate? Amazing that you keep evading that simple question and yet try to call me slow.... now don't keep skirting around the question..... be a man and answer it. How are you going to persuade a bloke living on a beachfront, with a boat and guaranteed money coming in from social security and probably royalties, with everything laid on, to travel hundreds of miles to attend study and then take up a job that will tie him down a minimum of five days a week working? Only a white man is that stupid..... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Oct 2nd, 2022 at 8:34pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 1st, 2022 at 9:54pm:
you are slow, or blinded blinded by ideology (probably both0, like the bastards who forced the cessation of the cdep). that's all there is to it; your 'market forces' mantra is inappropriate for people who cannot compete in the private sector job market, yet the dole is a terrible outcome for the long-term unemployed. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by John Smith on Oct 2nd, 2022 at 8:47pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 9:58pm:
I know you're a joke but I would call you a nice joke! |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Brian Ross on Oct 2nd, 2022 at 9:00pm
As much as some posters like to hide from evidence, the Australian War Memorial that it will, finally, recognise the Frontier Wars in it's collection about Australians and war. Australian War Memorial promises ‘much broader, deeper’ depiction of frontier wars 8-)
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Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Oct 2nd, 2022 at 10:29pm Brian Ross wrote on Oct 2nd, 2022 at 9:00pm:
Another victory over barbarians. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 2nd, 2022 at 11:05pm John Smith wrote on Oct 2nd, 2022 at 8:47pm:
I know that... any Digger who can't take a joke is in the wrong business... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 2nd, 2022 at 11:13pm thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 2nd, 2022 at 8:34pm:
I don't have a market forces mantra... had no say over CDEP.....have no ideology (which is why I work for government at times) ... Abos have a captive audience for skills and trades - where are those? As for the unemployed - what do you propose that I, as a single individual, do about them? How many jobs are you offering today? Is it possible for you to get to your launch pad by answering the simple question:- How do you propose to get the willing compliance of the Aborigines, remote and city, in developing lasting skills that will benefit individuals and communities long term? Hint:- There is an Aboriginal here who runs a tree lopping business... he does very well..... HELLO! My bloke who cuts my hair is part Indigenous - his father is near full and he worked as a barber - both are doing well, the father now owns a farm...... one of my nephews is part Aborigine and is an academic..... So go - tell it to the Spartan who has his boat and lives beachside and gets fortnightly cash in his account and goes fishing etc and lives the life of Riley sandy beaches drinking rum every night... tell him he needs to go to TAFE and go far away to work a Monday to Friday job with rules to improve his community and himself... FYI he's happy with the 'traditional' way..... as preserved and promoted by Whartey ..... Only a Wharte Man is stupid enough to work for a living..................... Are we there yet? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 2nd, 2022 at 11:37pm
Culture is Life for all - yet only one culture is considered unworthy of life - and that is the one that sustains all the others..............
Only in a society and culture essentially at peace with itself could all these dissident groups flourish and object to their comfortable lifestyle... and even be encouraged by that culture that 'oppresses' them all. .... presenting tonight on Inclusiflix ..... The Fall Of Japan, 1945.................. starring Jack Nicholson as Tojo .............. Ethan Hawke as Emperor Hirohito .............. Glenn Close as General MacArthur.............. John Lone as Admiral Chester Nimitz ....... Will Smith as Colonel Paul Tibbets ......... Morgan Freeman as Winston Churchill ............... and introducing Waleed Ali as President Truman ....................... special appearance by Ricardo Montalban as Adolph Hitler and Samuel L Jackson as Goebbels ............and a cast of millions of non-specific gender and race ............................... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by random on Oct 5th, 2022 at 9:15pm
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Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 5th, 2022 at 9:43pm random wrote on Oct 5th, 2022 at 9:15pm:
Well - why would he want to leave? Not allowed to take things out of context..... Over to you, dickhead.... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D really triggered some of you - all the slime is coming out of the woodwork.... welcome to my web ........... You dickhead - it wasn't me saying that Yond Abo on the beach should be forced to leave and undergo training and take on a five day a week or more job somewhere far from home - given that th3ere are no such job opportunities up there.... that was great divide - yet for some reason of your own in your demented mind, you would rather support him in forcing that Abo into that way of life that he doesn't want. So I'll ask you again - how do you propose to get an Abo to leave his home, his lifestyle, his family, and the kind of lifestyle that others would kill to get - sandy beaches, drinking rum every night, going fishing, catching yabbies and prawns and lobster while still getting regular money in the bank account and all modern conveniences laid on via plane trip all paid for or freighted in and built for you ... to take up the Wharte Man's idea of learning skills and trades and then working at least eight hours a day Monday to Friday and probably more to earn a living and a home etc and raise a family, and then travel home for a couple of days rest? How do YOU propose to make that happen, random - you idiot? Only a total idiot would consider that 'racist'... but you clowns love to dig your own graves with your BS. Come in, spinner... I got this................ |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Oct 6th, 2022 at 9:05am Brian Ross wrote on Sep 11th, 2022 at 11:57pm:
The first episode of the show, produced by Rachel Perkins, daughter of the late Charles Perkins, made a number of claims which cannot be verified but serve to vilify the nation’s European colonisers. In the introductory episode the staggering claim is made that 100,000 Aboriginals were murdered by troops or settlers in wars which lasted a century. There is no evidence presented to justify this statement and even the final findings of the eight-year long Colonial Frontier Massacres Digital Map Project (elements of which have been successfully challenged) conducted by University of Newcastle emeritus professor Lyndall Ryan do not support this figure. The Guardian, which supported Professor Ryan’s flawed project, analysed the data and found that between 11,000 and 14,000 Aboriginal people died. Which leaves a credibility gap into which Perkins’ 89,000 to 86,000 alleged deaths have fallen. War is usually defined as a state of armed conflict between two countries or different groups within a country but it clear that there was never a state of war between Great Britain and an Aboriginal nation as there were no Aboriginal nations, no matter how nation is defined. Further, the groups of Aboriginals who resisted European settlement did not constitute a coherent body. Wars is too strong a term for what were at best deadly skirmishes between soldiers and a handful of Aboriginal clan leaders initially and later between small Aboriginal bands and police or settlers. The claim is also made that children were taken as ‘slaves’ and that women and children were the most valuable commodities in the nascent colony though there is no evidence that slavery was ever practised by the colonisers and certainly no evidence that women and children were traded as commodities. https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/10/australian-notes-321/ |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 6th, 2022 at 9:13am
Well - if there is agreement that there should be a national memorial that gives a fair rendition of both sides of these minor conflicts, I'm happy to go with that - but clearly this does not belong in the War Memorial.
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Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 6th, 2022 at 10:22am
Looks like Apartheid is the aim - this is how the 'woke' think:-
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Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Brian Ross on Oct 6th, 2022 at 12:58pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 6th, 2022 at 9:13am:
That was the AWM under Brendan Nelson, acting on intructions from PM John Howard. It was an unpopular view and one protested a great deal. The new director Matt Anderson has lately adopted a different view. The point is, it was a war, it occurred on Australian soil and it largely concerned Australians and deserved to be commemorated, which is, afterall, the job of the AWM. ::) ::) |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by random on Oct 6th, 2022 at 5:49pm |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 6th, 2022 at 5:54pm Brian Ross wrote on Oct 2nd, 2022 at 9:00pm:
Frontier Wars? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D You woke imbeciles. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 6th, 2022 at 5:55pm random wrote on Oct 6th, 2022 at 5:49pm: We have such a choice when you offer up your woke lefty bullshyte ad infinitum |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 6th, 2022 at 5:58pm Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6th, 2022 at 12:58pm:
Well - he didn't say that last night on that show. It wasn't a 'war' it was a series of minor altercations without general organisation, oversight or command, and without any real strategy. mothra attempted to say the strategic aim was 'ethnic cleansing/clearing the land' in the Greater Sydney Basin, but she fell short when it came to the ability of remaining tribes to claim Goat Island and not a few other places. Furthermore - it was not a war on behalf of Australia other than by verb al chicanery - those fighting on the Indigenous side were actually AGAINST Australia as known since 1788 - the Civil War that may re-ignite if things keep going downhill the way they are (as random leaped on and distorted beyond belief) .... so it does not warrant a place in the AWM. A separate memorial to BOTH sides is more appropriate. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Brian Ross on Oct 7th, 2022 at 1:40pm |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Oct 7th, 2022 at 3:29pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 6th, 2022 at 5:58pm:
See how your blind partisanship cancels your ability for rational analysis...there were violent clashes West of the Great Dividing Range also. As for the black claim to Goat Island in c.2016, that was 2 centuries after the ethnic cleansing in the Sydney area. I refuse to answer the rest of your post when you begin with such partisan nonsense as above. GIGO, as is regularly the case with you. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 7th, 2022 at 6:00pm thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 3:29pm:
So you totally confuse the violent clashes with some form of ethnic cleansing. Clearly you know nothing - since in order to claim Goat Island the tribe(s) that did so must have continuous connection.... therefore they were NOT 'ethnically cleansed'. You and mothra are both totally wrong. Are you now saying that those who took over Goat Island are NOT the 'traditional owners', but are just a bunch of scrags that wandered in and thought it was a good thing to get hold of and a government just gave it to these scrag ends?? Jeez - you'd better go public with your knowledge of all this. YOU are the one not being rational - like more than a few others here - you are impervious to facts and rational conclusions. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 8th, 2022 at 8:32am thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 3:29pm:
;D 200 years of ethnic cleansing yet there are still enough traditional owners left to claim this Goat Island? I would have thought that after 200 years of this ethnic cleansing there would not have been any left. Funny that there are also more Aboriginals in Tasmania now than ever before ..... a place where all the Aboriginals were supposed to have been shot out or shipped to offshore Bass Strait Islands where they died out. ::) |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:04am
This island could be going to the 'wrong' Aboriginal people
Sydney Harbour’s historic Goat Island is set to be handed to Aboriginal people who have no cultural connection to the site. Ownership of Sydney Harbour’s historic Goat Island is about to be handed to the “wrong” Aboriginal people, many of whom come from western NSW and have no cultural connection to the area, descendants of the harbour’s original inhabitants say. It would be culturally offensive for Goat Island, or Me-Mel, to be awarded to the Metropolitan Local Aboriginal Land Council “because it is controlled by foreigners”, said Ash Walker, a member of the La Perouse Aboriginal community. “There’s a large population of people who are descended from the traditional owners of coastal Sydney who are the rightful owners of Goat Island,” he said. In May, NSW Premier Dominic Perrottet announced a $43m investment to support the return of Me-Mel – once home to Aboriginal leader Bennelong and often described as the jewel in the crown of Sydney Harbour – to the Indigenous community, but Mr Walker, son of rugby union great Lloyd Walker, said it would be wrong for the MLALC to gain ownership of the island when at least 31 original inhabitants of the area have now been identified. Mr Walker is a descendant of two of those coastal Sydney inhabitants, Betsy Madden and Mary-Ann Lyons. The 33-year-old Oxford University-educated strategy consultant and former lawyer said the MLALC was controlled by Aboriginal people who had come to Sydney from other areas of NSW and had no cultural connection to the land. “This is why the spokesperson featured in the announcement was MLALC deputy chair Yvonne Weldon, a Wiradjuri woman from Cowra in western NSW,” Mr Walker said. Local Aboriginal land councils are statutory entities whose boundaries and membership are not linked to any traditional ownership. “Being a member of an Aboriginal land council doesn’t mean that you speak for that country,” Mr Walker said. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/the-oz/news/this-island-could-be-going-to-the-wrong-aboriginal-people/news-story/6d96fb84502172d3813afe5f8d0891c9 |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:07am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 7th, 2022 at 6:00pm:
No..violent racial clashes with fatalities were the result of the frontier wars following the Oz-wide land grab (beginning in 1788) by white settlers during "terra nullius" period "The High Court's Mabo judgment in 1992 overturned the terra nullius fiction. In the same judgment, however, the High Court accepted the British assertion of sovereignty in 1788, and held that from that time there was only one sovereign power and one system of law in Australia." Trouble is blacks don't accept it, and whites are cheering them on..... Quote:
No-one is denying there were black survivors to the frontier wars. Quote:
Afdter Mabo, a court of law apparently confirmed traditional ownership by the black claimants. Quote:
Examined and refuted above. Quote:
Refuted above. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:18am Gnads wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 8:32am:
Of course theree were survivors of the frontier wars, Quote:
You'd be wrong. Quote:
Yes, confusion over the term "aboriginal" is rife. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:25am Frank wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:04am:
Yes: and trust the High Court to issue a rather inadequate ruling on 'terra nullius' and 'sovereignty': "The High Court's Mabo judgment in 1992 overturned the terra nullius fiction. In the same judgment, however, the High Court accepted the British assertion of sovereignty in 1788, and held that from that time there was only one sovereign power and one system of law in Australia." The High Court forgot to explain all this to blacks... Now the lawyers are having a field day over claims to Goat Island. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 8th, 2022 at 11:10am thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:07am:
Afdter Mabo, a court of law apparently confirmed traditional ownership by the black claimants. Quote:
Examined and refuted above. Quote:
Refuted above. [/quote] Mad woman's underwear, divide - you can't have 'ethnic cleansing' and 'cleared off the land' and still have some living there. Just accept that some of you are wrong and stop twisting like a snake. They were NOT ethnic cleansed or cleared off the land... some died in open conflict with settlers etc, those that didn't take up the spear were not, so it was no 'genocide'. Either these people are the direct descendants of the original Sydney Harbour Cheeses or that primest land has been handed over to the wrong people for political purposes. Notice all the savage White demonstrations in the streets about that and the threats to burn the whole joint down, all those Whiteys carrying on about being Warriors of the Australian Resistance etc.... notice how angry people are over this abuse of office and outright theft of National Park land to give to a pack of fraudsters..... Rioting in the streets they are. Honestly, some of you are so stupid it's not even funny. Now to read the article Frank put up there... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 8th, 2022 at 11:14am
"Local Aboriginal land councils are statutory entities whose boundaries and membership are not linked to any traditional ownership.
“Being a member of an Aboriginal land council doesn’t mean that you speak for that country,” Mr Walker said." There you have it, Poppets - the end of the 'voice' stupidity.... same thing with that - being the 'member' doesn't mean you speak for that country.... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 8th, 2022 at 11:29am
Culture is Life to all cultures .... only one Culture today is considered worthy of death even by many of its own, and that is the one that has advanced all the others and supports them all.
You guess which one......................... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 8th, 2022 at 11:40am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 11:29am:
All cultures are fundamentally chauvinistic towards all others. We all think our own culture is the greatest in the world - even if we guilelessly borrow features from other cultures and call them our own. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 8th, 2022 at 12:21pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 11:40am:
Well - I suppose they would all have been content with carved out logs or junks to carry on their world trade and travel now instead of steel ships and planes.... oh, well... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Oct 8th, 2022 at 4:13pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 11:10am:
your pigmy bonehead lawywer's brain is on display: blacks were increasingly pushed to more remote areas, as ethnic cleansing in frontier wars drove them out. No doubt some hid in the bush and survived. Quote:
Bonehead lawyer getting caught up in definitions: genocide does not refer to the entire race. And now things are getting "interesting" after the Mabo decision. Blacks reckon they can claim possession through clan history and the like (likely a flawed process since black didn't keep records). Quote:
yes... aided and abetted the High Court who casually recognized terra nullius as fiction, but then claimed British sovereignty over Oz without recognizing the contradiction and its consesequences Quote:
Aided and abetted by the High Court; if the British monarch is sovereign in Oz (since 1788), a better solution than the flawed concept of land rights, and the resulting black claims, is the provision of PUBLIC land and housing for all as required, given only the wealthy can now afford to buy houses. Quote:
We need the High Court to identify what British sovereignty means in practice.. Quote:
Examined above (by me). Quote:
You'll love it....but I already critiqued it. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Oct 8th, 2022 at 4:31pm
It was never in question whether Aborigines lived here before 1788. Of course they did.
The thorny questions are about how to deal with them in law. Aborigines had no recognisable social or legal organisation beyond loose tribes and clans whose most important rules related to kinship and marriage, not land or territorial ownership (unknown concepts to them) or nationhood (ditto) or representation (ditto) or any of the recognisable rules and laws relating to sovereignty, territory etc in Europe and most of the rest of the world. The legal, social, cultural chasm between people who had just invented the steam engine and people who couldn't boil water could not have been any greater. The highly literate steam age met the illiterate stone age. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Oct 8th, 2022 at 4:41pm Frank wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 4:31pm:
You made a factually correct statement, let's see how long you can keep it up. Quote:
Did you steal that comment from my previous 2 posts, in which I critized the High Court's lack of clarity on 'sovereignty'? Anyway, so far so good for you.... Quote:
Still doing well. Quote:
Gosh ...a factually correct post....as far as it goes; - now, how to close the gap, and house everyone in public housing where required. Sorry to offend your conservative home ownership ideology, running the risk the current Oz housing ponzi may collapse eventually. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Oct 8th, 2022 at 4:44pm Quote:
Still doing well. The legal, social, cultural chasm between people who had just invented the steam engine and people who couldn't boil water could not have been any greater. The highly literate steam age met the illiterate stone age. [/quote] Gosh ...a factually correct post. [/quote] So the Terra was nullius for legal, treaty making purposes. Which is what it ALWAYS meant. 'First Nations' is a recently invented anachronistic sleight of hand. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 8th, 2022 at 4:51pm Frank wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 4:44pm:
It wasn't left as a legal nicety, it was the basis for all land acquisition throughout Australia without the need for negotiations or agreements with Aboriginal peoples. It became the founding principle for legal dispossession. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Oct 8th, 2022 at 4:56pm Frank wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 4:44pm:
Gosh ...still correct. Quote:
Terra nullius was a fiction recognized by the High Court as late as 1992. so your statement is wrong. Well... I didn't think you would make it to the end. So the legal profession is making a killing in the subsequent black land rights claims Quote:
At least you finished correctly...yet the High Court still hasn't addressed sovereignty versus terra nullius |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:03pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 24th, 2022 at 5:29pm:
Well not Aboriginals as they say they don't own the land - they belong to the land. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:06pm FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 26th, 2022 at 4:39pm:
Absolute bullshyte. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Brian Ross on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:11pm Gnads wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:06pm:
I am glad you are recognising your contribution to this debate, Gnads finally. All you have contributed is bullshit, Racism pure and simple. What a WOFTAM. Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::) |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:12pm Gnads wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:03pm:
Like fauna? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:16pm FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 27th, 2022 at 5:00pm:
You calling anyone braindead is an ultimate hypocrisy |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:20pm FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 7:41am:
You don't do a solitary thing except blather leftard drivel. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:22pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:12pm:
In LEGAL terms, and spiritually, yes. You can't make a treaty with people who do not have the concepts of a treaty and what it might cover and what it might not. Not colonising Australia was not an option. What would YOU have done? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:23pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:12pm:
No, by possession of tribal lands. But since the High Court in 1992 has asserted British sovereignty since 1788 (while eradicating terra nullis at the same time), we have some some legal problems - which will appeal to the fat cats on the High Court. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:26pm Frank wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:22pm:
So they could be legally cleared from the land like the thylacine? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:27pm FutureTheLeftWant wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 10:24am:
The only one shamed here is your pathetic insipid self. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:27pm thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:23pm:
So they possessed the land, then. Isn't possession 9/10 of the law? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:29pm John Smith wrote on Sep 28th, 2022 at 9:36pm:
Such a sage .... you numpty Smithy |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:35pm AusGeoff wrote on Sep 29th, 2022 at 1:32pm:
Bullshyte ... why are there more Aboriginals or people identifying as Aboriginals in Tasmania now than ever before? BTW they didn't escape control by going to a sealing community on a Bass Strait island - they were moved there. Did you think they swam over? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:41pm thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:18am:
Yes, confusion over the term "aboriginal" is rife. [/quote] There were no frontier wars ... pure fantasy The word 'Aboriginal" is more pertinent than Indigenous or the mega trendy "First Nations". 1. because anyone born of this land is Indigenous to it. 2. because there were no "nations" here pre: 1788 just nomadic tribal groups. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:43pm Gnads wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:41pm:
There were no frontier wars ... pure fantasy The word 'Aboriginal" is more pertinent than Indigenous or the mega trendy "First Nations". 1. because anyone born of this land is Indigenous to it. 2. because there were no "nations" here pre: 1788 just nomadic tribal groups.[/quote] Isn't that using English semantics to justify dispossession? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:50pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 4:51pm:
Which is what happened all over the globe ... not just by the British Why do peoples from Mexico south throughout the whole Sth American continent speak Spanish? Excepting Brazil that speaks another European language - Portuguese. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:52pm Brian Ross wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:11pm:
And you just a SJW hypocrite..... who sprouts bullshyte ad infinitum. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:55pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:12pm:
Complete fallacy ... want to prove it otherwise? Aboriginals were never listed as fauna. That's something often attributed to Aboriginal people ... saying they belong to the land not the land belonging to them. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Brian Ross on Oct 8th, 2022 at 7:31pm Gnads wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:52pm:
Care to demonstrate where I have supposedly done that, Gnads? Tsk, tsk, tsk... ::) ::) |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 8th, 2022 at 7:51pm Gnads wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:50pm:
So, you're saying: it's not that the British didn't dispossess aboriginals, it's that others perpetrated the same dispossession on peoples all over the globe. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 8th, 2022 at 7:54pm Gnads wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:55pm:
I'm asking you if you would say they were like fauna. You admit they possessws the land but say they didn't own it. How is that not just semantics? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Frank on Oct 8th, 2022 at 8:45pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:26pm:
Yes. And they were. There was no recognised LEGAL reason for them to be left anywhere they claimed to belong. Harsh reality. They simply had no recognisable claim under recognisable law. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 8th, 2022 at 9:31pm Frank wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 8:45pm:
And human cultural memory of injustice is forever. In totalitarian states, it ends in concentration camps and a hail of bullets. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:22pm
So - what is the answer for today's Aborigines? Not a voice, that's for sure.
When a genuine local says that those who may be on the land council but are not part of that area, do not speak for that land..... you can see the massive division amongst them now - how much worse will it be with a elected body, all disagreeing about what should be done? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:27pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:27pm:
PROOF of possession is 9/10 of the law. When a group wanders around a large area, they cannot safely say that is proof they own all of it, and without any formal recognition of ownership, that was supplanted by the English way. You can't just wander onto a vast swathe of land and lay claim to it these days.... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by mothra on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:38pm |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:41pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:27pm:
No. Possession is 9/10 of the law. The onus is on the claimant to prove ownership. However, terra nullius expunged the onus on settlers of that burden. Again, there are echoes of this from New Zealand, where in 1860, Maori tribes were required to register their lands. Those lands that were not registered by a specific date defaulted to the crown. The decree was written in English and Maori but Maoris were still mostly illiterate and did not register their land before the stipulated deadline. That's when the fighting started. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:55pm
"The onus is on the claimant to prove ownership." Still requires PROOF of ownership. Semantics... of no value.
Same thing.... 'claimant' can be someone who says "I own that but I've got no deeds" or another who ways "I own it and I've got deeds" ... Who ya gonna believe? You can argue it any way you want - the Aborigines could say they own it but not enforce it... so who is this 'claimant' you speak of? The guy with the Pommy deeds or the Aboriginal claiming ancestral? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 8th, 2022 at 11:00pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:55pm:
No, it doesn't. The onus is on the claimant to prove their ownership. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 8th, 2022 at 11:03pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:55pm:
Terra nullius meant that settlers did not have to prove ownership over any aboriginal possession. The settlers purchased land and leases from the crown. Aboriginals were not consulted. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 9th, 2022 at 1:03am MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 11:03pm:
Cooo-rrect! And??? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 9th, 2022 at 1:05am MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 11:00pm:
So you say the onus is on the claimant to prove ownership, yet in your eyes proof of possession is not 9/10 of the law? Bizarre to say the least.... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 9th, 2022 at 6:52am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 1:03am:
A modern democracy must not only be founded on the principle of the rule of law, but the rule of just law. The foundational principle of terra nullius in Australia was recognised as unjust and a legal fiction 30 years ago when it was ended by the High Court. The admission of this injustice has led to the logical conclusion (in our democracy committed to the rule of just law) that the consequences of terra nullius - via its application to aboriginal legal status, land acquisition and treatment - require restitution, reparations and redress. The 1967 Referendum and the Native Title Act have advanced those requirements regarding aboriginal legal status and unjust land acquisition. Australians are now tasked with redressing the persisting sociocultural consequences of unjust dispossession. This task is significantly more nebulous than the concrete recognition of aboriginals and their right to own their lands and is, no doubt, the reason it's the last train to leave terra nullius. The question put to us is not whether it should be done, but how should it be done such that it satisfies standards of redress (establishing a concrete solution into the future) for ongoing sociocultural damage done. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:04am Brian Ross wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 7:31pm:
Just go back to anyone of your posts ... there's plenty to pick from. Tsk tsk tsk. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:05am MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 7:51pm:
Well unless you don't know anything about history or need it tattooed on your forehead...... ::) |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:08am MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 7:54pm:
I never said they possessed the land at all their belief system was that they belonged to it like everything else .... the land possessed them ::) |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by mothra on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:10am MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 6:52am:
An excellent post. I wholeheartedly concur. It'll fall on deaf ears though. I and many before me and since have said the same. Over and over and over again. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:10am MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 9:31pm:
Has it ended that way? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:10am Gnads wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:05am:
Whataboutism is not absolution. It's an admission of guilt. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by mothra on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:11am Gnads wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:08am:
Damn that's such a nasty and mean-spirited "explanation" as to why Aboriginal people deserve nothing at all. Horrible, horrible thinking. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:12am Gnads wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:08am:
How does land possess people? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:14am mothra wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:10am:
It doesn't matter about deaf ears - the train must leave terra nullius anyway. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by issuevoter on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:17am
The Australian Wars? Don't tell me you didn't know any of this. Where have you been living? Under a rock?
One of the great deficiencies in popular mentality is that history is boring. This is why the average person gets their perspective from TV or movies which are strained through the bias of the editors and producers. The only accounts that have any value are written by the people who were there, and it is all available in printed literature, if you have the attention span. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:24am MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 6:52am:
For how long? And when will enough ever be enough? It's fine to wax lyrical about redressing the dispossession of lands in the past but nothing seems to resolve many of the other issues confronting Aboriginal Australians..... particularly those in remote areas. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Boris on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:27am
They rape and murder children - and not long ago they also ate children.
Stone Age Savages |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:27am Gnads wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:24am:
Good questions. Redress for sociocultural damage done is not bounded by easily identifiable quantitative metrics. The journey continues... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:28am mothra wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:11am:
Deserve nothing at all? Stop making up shyte. That's exactly what their belief system was that everything belonged to the land - plants, animals, fish and them ...... and that they had to look after country. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:30am MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:12am:
Are you being deliberately obtuse? You will find that many Aboriginal/native peoples globally hold similar belief. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by mothra on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:32am Gnads wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:24am:
There has been no treaty. There has been no ceding of soverignty. People are still waiting for wages from decades ago. There is much we need to redress before we can possibly say we have done enough to satisfy any obligations we have. And furthermore, most of what is spent in terms of dollars on Indigenous people never reaches them If you know anything about this issue, you know this. There is much we must address before we can possibly say we have done enough. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by mothra on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:33am Gnads wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:30am:
No, you are. In the defence of the reprehensible. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:38am Gnads wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:30am:
How do you define land possession of people? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Boris on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:39am
They rape and murder children - and not long ago they also ate children.
Stone Age Savages |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:47am mothra wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:33am:
Bullshyte .... you explain their belief system & their association/place in country ... i.e. the world. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:50am MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:38am:
Yep obtuse ..... they are part of the big picture, wrapped up in all things part of the Universe.... they don't own ... they belong to & in nature. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:51am Gnads wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:50am:
So you can't define what you mean when you say it. Are you relying on what you think others mean when they use the term? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Brian Ross on Oct 9th, 2022 at 10:38am Boris wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:39am:
And where is your evidence of that, Matty? Tsk, tsk, tsk, you keep repeating the same lies all the time, in the hope we'll accept them. Oh, dearie, dearie, me... ::) ::) |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Oct 9th, 2022 at 10:47am MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 5:27pm:
you have turned into frauddiver again, with your inane question. You just "proved/agreed" blacks possessed 9/10ths of the land..... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Oct 9th, 2022 at 10:54am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 10:55pm:
Blacks consider they possessed the land by tribal law/custom; whites seek ownership of the land. Two different things. . |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 9th, 2022 at 11:12am thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 10:54am:
You could try dropping the 'blacks' reference. All tribal peoples from the Arctic circle to the lower southern hemisphere know they possess the land by tribal law/custom. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 9th, 2022 at 11:32am thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 10:47am:
You could try reading what the legal adage "possession is nine-tenths of the law" means in a democracy. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Oct 9th, 2022 at 12:00pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 11:32am:
Hey Fraudmeister: "there is no law stating that possession accounts for 90 percent of all the evidence in any given case. In fact, the prison population contains countless people who believed this phrase was legally true." The reality is 'terra nullius' and British sovereignty were asserted in 1788 by the colonists; the former was recognised as a fiction while the latter was reasserted, i by the High Court in 1992. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 9th, 2022 at 12:03pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 11:32am:
Makes no difference - you yourself agreed with me that proof was the activating measure... not simple possession. Why persist with this non-argument? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Oct 9th, 2022 at 12:23pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 12:03pm:
See #471. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 9th, 2022 at 12:25pm thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 12:00pm:
Here's how it works. If you possess something, it is presumed that you own it. If someone sees you possessing something and decides that it was stolen from them, the onus is on the claimant to prove that your possession is unlawful. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 9th, 2022 at 12:27pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 12:03pm:
No. You put the onus on the possessor to prove ownership, not the claimant. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 9th, 2022 at 12:40pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 12:03pm:
Just to put this back into context, the issue of land possession was raised during a conversation with another poster and me (see the copied thread in your own post above). You interjected and decontextualised the argument to make it about the principle of possession. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 9th, 2022 at 12:41pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 12:27pm:
The proven possessor has no problem confirming ownership - that is moot - it is any claimant who must make a case. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 9th, 2022 at 1:03pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 12:41pm:
It is not necessary for the possessor to prove ownership as it is the claimant's. Here's a scenario that might resonate. You own a rural property and you decide to build the back fence 10 metres further than where it was. The local council finally notices this and orders you to set the fence back. You claim, without proof, that the fence is exactly on the border of your property and the council will need to show a land survey map to prove that it is 10 metres beyond. However, it turns out that the original records of your land were destroyed in a flood/fire and the council never got around to resurveying the land (there being no other record available). With the exception of the council repossessing the land by legislative fiat, you will get to keep it - without necessarily proving anything. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 9th, 2022 at 4:50pm
So proof of possession is the defining point... thank you.
Why are you going round and round over this? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 9th, 2022 at 4:58pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 4:50pm:
The defining point?? No. Proof of ownership when a claimant, is the point. In the context that it was originally raised in this thread, the other poster suggested that aboriginals didn’t own the land, they had possession of it. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Oct 9th, 2022 at 5:21pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 12:25pm:
That's what John Macarthur said of his newly acquired pastorage near Parramatta (through which grant he became the wealthiest man in the colony)...handy when the Crown already asserted national sovereignty over the entirety of Oz, known and unknown. Quote:
of course in Macarthur's time - under the legal fiction of terra nullius, there could be no black "claimants"... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 9th, 2022 at 6:24pm thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 5:21pm:
Yes. It’s why it’s taken decades and a high court ruling for the claimants to have proof of ownership through the expunging of terra nullius and recognition of native title. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 9th, 2022 at 6:26pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:51am:
I just did .... shave a bit off & stop being so dense. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 9th, 2022 at 6:34pm Gnads wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 6:26pm:
No you didn’t. You made a vague statement about big pictures, and the universe and being wrapped up in it. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Gnads on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:11pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 6:34pm:
Ahhh that's what religions & belief systems are about ::) You're being too clever even for yourself. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 9th, 2022 at 9:25pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 6:24pm:
So does that now justify the dispossession of the bulk of the people of their National Parks, just as an example? As great divide put forward - is that not sufficient reason for conflict to defend rights and land? Is dispossession, as he cited in the Aboriginal Wars - not sufficient reason to go to that war? You can't simply hand the totality of the country over to the 'original inhabitants' descendants, when they are now massively the minority, so what is your solution? Only hand over the parts that nobody has time to even consider while they're struggling under the same governments that make those decisions just to earn a decent living and prosperity? A clear example of why governments West behave the way they do - constantly keeping the peasants off balance and attention distracted and wondering if they'll even have a job next week, so they can push their agenda without any interference.... and both carry out and make examples of what they are capable of doing and how their far their power extends...... such as stealing national parks for their select group. Again - if they did that with a gas fracking corporation or a mining group wanting to dismantle Mt Warning in the search for gold and minerals and leave it a car park, would you be as silent and dumbstruck? I guess most of you missed it................. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 10th, 2022 at 9:28am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 9:25pm:
I guess it means we now must now clean up the wreckage of terra nullius, at our own cost, from wherever its debris falls. It's a case of having inherited the sins of the father. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by Boris on Oct 10th, 2022 at 9:44am
DON’T welcome me to my own country
Vote NO The Voice Divides Us By Race |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 10th, 2022 at 10:05am MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 10th, 2022 at 9:28am:
Too bad - not my problem.... won't be permitted to be made my problem. Those courts need a re-think ... as well as a good cleaning out. Like politicians, they are fully aware of the consequences of their often silly decisions..... they should be held responsible for all the troubles coming. So - everything should have at the very least been frozen in place at the time this court made its foolish utterance.... not become the vehicle for total change backwards for over 200 years. Now a fair negotiation is required for ALL stakeholders, and a fair settlement reached - or not. But this endless swathes of rich land being given 'back' to a small minority pack who are mostly not original to that area now must cease forthwith and a total final settlement reached on land ownership NOW. I note that M has not been discussing this since she was shot down over the 'clearing of the land of Aborigines' ... I'm certain the Ella boys down Sydney South would have disagreed.... no 'genocide' then.... stopped in her tracks again.... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Oct 10th, 2022 at 1:03pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 10th, 2022 at 9:28am:
Agreed; and the whole 'land rights' legal nonsense also has to go; apparently blacks now 'own' 40% of Oz. Madness - c.3% of the population (blacks) 'owning' close to half the continent. and as for restitution for the very real sins of our fathers ('terra nullius' ....good one, that....) we need to ensure well-maintained (public) housing for blacks who can't afford private housing.... and suitable employment funded by government (discussed elsewhere) why am I not expecting your support.... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 10th, 2022 at 1:27pm thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 10th, 2022 at 1:03pm:
When did anyone say that the Aus Black Originals shouldn't get good housing etc? But if they want and get vast swathes of land then they'll just have to make it for themselves, right? It can't be both ways at once. There! Now you've got some land - go and make your living out of it.... no more handouts. Why should employment be funded by government? Most of their 'employment' is already funded by governments sitting in an office somewhere pretending to be all about equal rights while supporting one side only, copping affirmative action into public service jobs, and in academia and park ranging etc. Why not training and accreditation so they can participate in the general economy, same as everyone else? So you want the same deal for everyone out of work and in poverty? A government paid job to be paid appearance money? Settle all land claims now on a proper basis of - you claim 100% - here's your 3.3% that represents your presence in the community of TODAY .... and that's it.. no more forever. When they got their own exclusive 'reservations' they fought against it..... when they get their hands on national parks they want to exclude everyone else. Nope - give 'em a fair settlement once and for all and finish all the handouts. and while you're at it you can give good and free housing and jobs to everyone else who wants them and doesn't have them. Why should a poor white boy struggle in this economic climate to even own a home and others get it handed to them for free? You're either Australian and equal across the board or you are not... take your choice now. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Oct 10th, 2022 at 4:36pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 10th, 2022 at 1:27pm:
er....haven't you noticed we have a housing crisis in Oz, the end result of decades long ideological defunding of Public housing. Quote:
They shouldn't get vast swathes of (often useless) land. Quote:
Because longterm unemployment is a national, as well as an individual disaster, in terms of low individual morale, and increased society-wide costs associated with the legal, corrections, 'welfare' and health industries. Quote:
Yet black unemployment is still near 50%.....but yes, as already said, I agree the legal profession is complicit, with their phoney "equal rights", and "land rights" contradictions (how can 'land rights' exist for a small group, when the British monarch is sovereign over all Oz.....all to avoid actually employing everyone, an impossibility in the competive private sector job market. Quote:
You completely ignored my two links, as expected; the matter of moving from the CDEP into the "general economy" was thoroughly examined , and limitations of having that AS A GOAL of the CDEP explained. Up to you to read the research. Quote:
yep. Quote:
Nope, but a blind "freedom" ideologue like you - who thinks economics can only exists under neoliberal markets - is uneducable, so I'll move on. Quote:
an obvious non-starter; blacks live everywhere in Oz today, they won't want to move to a black reserve. ..... Quote:
Yes, more contradictions of 'land rights'. Quote:
...including "welfare" (which it isn't); we all need a job and a house. Quote:
Of course, anything less is just a reflection of your greedy private sector market. Quote:
He shouldn't: see the UBI thread, and my arguments against it. Quote:
"equal" in your vicious private sector market place. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 11th, 2022 at 6:54am Gnads wrote on Oct 9th, 2022 at 7:11pm:
Then you'd have to accept that terra nullius was an all too convenient belief in a quasi-religious context. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 11th, 2022 at 6:58am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 10th, 2022 at 10:05am:
True. Your generation is now irrelevant to the solution, which must be managed by your descendants 2 generations (and beyond) from you. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 11th, 2022 at 7:20am thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 10th, 2022 at 1:03pm:
It's not uncommon for the majority percentage of resources to be concentrated in a minority of the population. Wherever this has been upended the result has, without exception, been the rapid establishment of a new ruling elite arrogating all resources to itself. This is particularly true within your favourite totalitarian regime where corruption is as common as smoke stacks and degraded land. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 11th, 2022 at 10:09am MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 11th, 2022 at 6:58am:
'managed'? I've been standing against it for years and trying to enlighten you Twerp generations... Remember that guy from the 325th Glider Infantry Regiment at The Bulge? I've been holding the line against bullsh1t for years, and mostly alone, son - how about some of you start to take the load? I won't always be here to fix or stand alone against the problems you are creating now for future generations with your numbed mind acquiescence in every bullsh1t line that comes down the track. Irrelevant? You ships of fools need someone to lead you out of the wilderness - and all you do is bite the hand that leads. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 11th, 2022 at 10:15am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 11th, 2022 at 10:09am:
'Look!', remarked the old soldier, 'Everyone's marching out of step, except me'. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 11th, 2022 at 10:38am MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 11th, 2022 at 10:15am:
You youngies share many things in common - 2-3 of you marching out of step with reality is not 'everyone'... Good to see you are a mixed bag and actually oppose some insanities - but you have a long way to go to work out all of them. Experience will help you. Your lot are looking for a new hero - but you don't know how to recognise him... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 11th, 2022 at 12:03pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 11th, 2022 at 10:38am:
Thanks for the compliment, but I ain't all that young (I guess it's all relative). When does codgerism start kicking in? I'm hoping not when I hit my 50s - I'd like to leave something for old age! |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Oct 11th, 2022 at 4:05pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 11th, 2022 at 7:20am:
your error here is obvious: you are referring to ownership of resources by individuals (the 'elite'); whereas land righs refer to legal possession (not ownership) of land by a group. The former is measured in dollars, the latter not. That's why you are still committed to ressurecting a defunct culture. Quote:
Inapplicable comment, for reasons explained above. (you are conflating a monetary European culture with a non-monetary Oz black culture, now defunct). |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 11th, 2022 at 6:29pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 11th, 2022 at 12:03pm:
So you're of the generation privileged by the sacrifices of the Boomers, the Second Greatest Generation.... the lot the boomers are now lamenting were given it too easy... What amazes me about you personally is that you can agree with virtually everything I state, yet you argue as if your life depends on it. 'Irrelevant' - don't make me laugh - never more needed than today with all the insanities swamping what was once a society. Lots of whales out today - they know the ropes.... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 11th, 2022 at 10:37pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 11th, 2022 at 6:29pm:
Now there's a guileless projection right there! What motivates you to write, often up to, a dozen essay-length posts a day? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 11th, 2022 at 10:49pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 11th, 2022 at 10:37pm:
Your dire need for elucidation.... if I do not show you the light and cover as many areas of discontent as I can in one post - how will you ever see the light? You need to view the interlocking nature of the various malaises that inflict and have inflicted our society for decades now. How else am I to get you to see reality? Would you prefer to be spoon fed one step at a time? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 11th, 2022 at 11:13pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 11th, 2022 at 10:49pm:
Let me guess... You're a 'Nam vet who lives on benzos, dexies and scotch. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 11th, 2022 at 11:45pm MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 11th, 2022 at 11:13pm:
Leave out the benzos and dexies.... **sips** can get mighty cold in them Central Highlands .... ye've no idea.... So you are the 'fly-by', eh? Welcome aboard...... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by mothra on Oct 12th, 2022 at 1:40am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 11th, 2022 at 11:45pm:
You were in Vietnam? |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 12th, 2022 at 11:44am mothra wrote on Oct 12th, 2022 at 1:40am:
Nambucca Heads ............ |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by MeisterEckhart on Oct 12th, 2022 at 6:04pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 12th, 2022 at 11:44am:
Ha ha! Good answer. Maybe it's an oldie, if it is, it's a goodie! I'm gonna use that! |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 13th, 2022 at 1:04am MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 12th, 2022 at 6:04pm:
Actually it was 1978 - I was THE Boss..... deep insertion into then totally held Communist territory three years after the Fall of Saigon.... sounds like a movie, right? Not so...... mission to liberate two re-education camps where the families of certain former two star Vietnamese personages were being held.... secondary mission to take out all of the Mekong River mouth pirates who preyed, under the 'Communist' government (you need to understand local politics etc) ... on all the 'boat people' trying to escape..... if captured, men killed out of hand...... women raped and then killed...... difference was we were armed etc.... Never heard of that one, have you? My cousin's husband, an ex Commonwealth Deputy DPP, has no idea.... he thinks he does, but he has never talked with any ex-grunt mates of mine. My family have no idea other than what the government tells them. I'm not a bad man..... not 'dangerous' in any way..... but I do my work as needed. I WILL write the book... |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by thegreatdivide on Oct 13th, 2022 at 11:15am Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 13th, 2022 at 1:04am:
Of course the Vietnam War was regarded as illegitimate, and the vets ("baby killers") despicable, by a large proportion of the Oz population of the time. The causes of the war were complex, with 3rd world poverty giving rise to communism, hated by the West, as one of the factors. ...better to kill communists, rather than direct intervention in 3rd world countries to raise living standards. So don't get too starry-eyed about your book, and the magnificent role you played in a monstrous war. |
Title: Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Post by The Grappler on Oct 13th, 2022 at 7:47pm |
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