Army fights to keep multi-billion-dollar vehicle project amid fears of defence review cuts :o

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 30^th, 2022 at 2:46pm:

Army fights to keep multi-billion-dollar vehicle project amid fears of defence review cuts :o

The usual inter-service turf war over funding. The army is worried by the new strategic view that sees conflict at sea and in the air to our north as the most likely scenario, with the funding directed accordingly.

Belgarion wrote on Aug 30^th, 2022 at 4:45pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 30th, 2022 at 2:46pm: Army fights to keep multi-billion-dollar vehicle project amid fears of defence review cuts :o The usual inter-service turf war over funding. The army is worried by the new strategic view that sees conflict at sea and in the air to our north as the most likely scenario, with the funding directed accordingly.

I don't disagree.  The ADF periodically goes through this between the services.   ::)

Aussie Infantry Fighting Vehicle, Army’s biggest-ever contract, faces government delays  8-)

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 4:08pm:

Aussie Infantry Fighting Vehicle, Army’s biggest-ever contract, faces government delays  8-)

Not my area of expertise but I think the Korean option would be better for on time delivery and local content, but is it the best vehicle?

Belgarion wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 5:30pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 8th, 2022 at 4:08pm: Aussie Infantry Fighting Vehicle, Army’s biggest-ever contract, faces government delays  8-) Not my area of expertise but I think the Korean option would be better for on time delivery and local content, but is it the best vehicle?

You get what you pay for.  You can either have a Mercedes or you can have a Daewoo. 

Deciding the future: the Australian Army and the infantry fighting vehicle [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 16^th, 2022 at 1:05pm:

Deciding the future: the Australian Army and the infantry fighting vehicle [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Very interesting. The logistics issues especially.

Belgarion wrote on Oct 16^th, 2022 at 2:04pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 16th, 2022 at 1:05pm: Deciding the future: the Australian Army and the infantry fighting vehicle [smiley=thumbsup.gif] Very interesting. The logistics issues especially.

"Amateurs talk strategy, professionals talk logistics"   ;)

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 16^th, 2022 at 1:05pm:

Deciding the future: the Australian Army and the infantry fighting vehicle [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Notice it says:

To help Ukraine, the Australian Government has donated equipment, including howitzers, and—despite their inferior protection and combat survival—Bushmaster PMVs and M113 APCs (Figure 6).

Figure 6: An Australian M113 being shipped to Ukraine



https://ad-aspi.s3.ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/2022-10/Deciding%20the%20future_Figure6.jpg


Also - the M113s have undergone considerable upgrades in the last 15 years.
Many of them  are almost new.

They are about to be replaced, Bobby.  That is what the Land 400 competition is all about.   ::) ::)

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 16^th, 2022 at 3:05pm:

They are about to be replaced, Bobby.  That is what the Land 400 competition is all about.   ::) ::)

I know that but I make the point that at huge expense - new ones were recently
made and older ones were upgraded too at more expense.
It was done at Albury-Wodonga by BAE systems.

https://www.anao.gov.au/sites/default/files/ANAO_Report_2005-2006_03.pdf

Bobby. wrote on Oct 16^th, 2022 at 3:10pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 16th, 2022 at 3:05pm: They are about to be replaced, Bobby.  That is what the Land 400 competition is all about.   ::) ::) I know that but I make the point that at huge expense - new ones were recently made and older ones were upgraded too at more expense. It was done at Albury-Wodonga by BAE systems. https://www.anao.gov.au/sites/default/files/ANAO_Report_2005-2006_03.pdf

Such is the nature of the armaments business, Bobby.

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 16^th, 2022 at 7:48pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 16th, 2022 at 3:10pm: Brian Ross wrote on Oct 16th, 2022 at 3:05pm: They are about to be replaced, Bobby.  That is what the Land 400 competition is all about.   ::) ::) I know that but I make the point that at huge expense - new ones were recently made and older ones were upgraded too at more expense. It was done at Albury-Wodonga by BAE systems. https://www.anao.gov.au/sites/default/files/ANAO_Report_2005-2006_03.pdf Such is the nature of the armaments business, Bobby.

Yes and BTW - the M113 is quite a good vehicle.
It's weaknesses are against: powerful land mines, RPGs and tank rounds.
I doubt there are many landmines in Ukraine.
They have a powerful 50 cal machine gun turret that any enemy troops
would be very frightened of.
The Ukrainians still wanted them - I bet they would take them all if we let them.

Quote:

Land 400 Phase 3 consideration     25 NOVEMBER 2022     The Australian Government will consider the findings of the Defence Strategic Review before deciding on the tender for the LAND 400 Phase 3 Infantry Fighting Vehicle project.     The Review will make recommendations on priorities for investing in Australia’s defence capability and posture, to meet the nation’s security challenges over the next decade and beyond.     The Minister for Defence Industry, the Hon Pat Conroy MP, said it is responsible for the decision on a procurement worth between $18 billion and $27 billion to be informed by the findings of the Review.     “I would like to thank Hanwha Defense Australia, Rheinmetall Defence Australia and the many other companies involved in this tender process for their understanding and professionalism,” Minister Conroy said.     “The Government remains focused on Australia’s future defence capability. We don’t want to pre-empt the findings of the Review, which is especially critical given the rapidly changing strategic circumstances facing our nation.”

    The final report from the Defence Strategic Review is due to be delivered to the Government early next year.

https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/media-releases/2022-11-25/land-400-phase-3-consideration


A smart move IMHO.

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 1:27pm:

The final report from the Defence Strategic Review is due to be delivered to the Government early next year. https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/media-releases/2022-11-25/land-400-phase-3-consideration A smart move IMHO.

So - therefore should we give all our M113s to Ukraine?
Would Ukraine take them all?
I think we have just over 1,000 of them.

Bobby. wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 1:44pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 1:27pm:     The final report from the Defence Strategic Review is due to be delivered to the Government early next year. https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/media-releases/2022-11-25/land-400-phase-3-consideration A smart move IMHO. So - therefore should we give all our M113s to Ukraine? Would Ukraine take them all? I think we have just over 1,000 of them.

We originally purchased over 800 or so of them, Bobby.  I have seen the warstock holdings and they are vast.

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 2:03pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 1:44pm: Brian Ross wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 1:27pm:     The final report from the Defence Strategic Review is due to be delivered to the Government early next year. https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/media-releases/2022-11-25/land-400-phase-3-consideration A smart move IMHO. So - therefore should we give all our M113s to Ukraine? Would Ukraine take them all? I think we have just over 1,000 of them. We originally purchased over 800 or so of them, Bobby.  I have seen the warstock holdings and they are vast.

From memory we had about 1,150 of them.

Do you think Ukraine would like them all?

Bobby. wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 2:12pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 2:03pm: Bobby. wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 1:44pm: Brian Ross wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 1:27pm:     The final report from the Defence Strategic Review is due to be delivered to the Government early next year. https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/media-releases/2022-11-25/land-400-phase-3-consideration A smart move IMHO. So - therefore should we give all our M113s to Ukraine? Would Ukraine take them all? I think we have just over 1,000 of them. We originally purchased over 800 or so of them, Bobby.  I have seen the warstock holdings and they are vast. From memory we had about 1,150 of them.

Where did that number come from, Bobby?


Quote:

Do you think Ukraine would like them all?

They'd like almost anything, particularly if it's free...

Brian Ross wrote on Nov 26^th, 2022 at 2:18pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 2:12pm: Brian Ross wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 2:03pm: Bobby. wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 1:44pm: Brian Ross wrote on Nov 26th, 2022 at 1:27pm:     The final report from the Defence Strategic Review is due to be delivered to the Government early next year. https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/media-releases/2022-11-25/land-400-phase-3-consideration A smart move IMHO. So - therefore should we give all our M113s to Ukraine? Would Ukraine take them all? I think we have just over 1,000 of them. We originally purchased over 800 or so of them, Bobby.  I have seen the warstock holdings and they are vast. From memory we had about 1,150 of them. Where did that number come from, Bobby? Quote: Do you think Ukraine would like them all? They'd like almost anything, particularly if it's free...

I can't remember - it appears I maybe wrong -
it says here 840:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M113_armoured_personnel_carriers_in_Australian_service


Yes - I bet Ukraine would like anything we can give them.
I hear that Russia and Ukraine are even removing tanks and artillery from museums
and putting them back into service.