For about half an hour on Friday 19 August, the national energy market
caught a glimpse of what a renewables-powered future might look like.
 
Solar energy (purportedly) eclipsed coal as the lead source of power across
the energy market, which includes all states and territories except Western
Australia and the Northern Territory. 

The milestone occurred around lunchtime, with solar making up roughly
40% of the market share and coal taking up 38%.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-20/solar-briefly-overtakes-coal-australia-number-one-source-power/101354054

I call bullshit on this claim.  There is absolutely no way that Victoria was
powered solely by photovoltaic generation on that day.  In middle winter!

The latest data shows that solar contributes around 1.3% of Victoria's daily
electricity generation.  The Loy Yang and Yallourn coal-fired base-load stations
in South Gippsland together generate 72% of Victoria's electricity.

AusGeoff wrote on Aug 20^th, 2022 at 10:54pm:

For about half an hour on Friday 19 August, the national energy market caught a glimpse of what a renewables-powered future might look like.   Solar energy (purportedly) eclipsed coal as the lead source of power across the energy market, which includes all states and territories except Western Australia and the Northern Territory.  The milestone occurred around lunchtime, with solar making up roughly 40% of the market share and coal taking up 38%. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-20/solar-briefly-overtakes-coal-australia-number-one-source-power/101354054 I call bullshit on this claim.  There is absolutely no way that Victoria was powered solely by photovoltaic generation on that day.  In middle winter! The latest data shows that solar contributes around 1.3% of Victoria's daily electricity generation.  The Loy Yang and Yallourn coal-fired base-load stations in South Gippsland together generate 72% of Victoria's electricity.

That's because it is bullshyte Geoff.

Quote:

The milestone occurred around lunchtime on Friday, with solar making up roughly 40 per cent of the market share and coal taking up 38 per cent. At the time, wind was the third-largest source of energy, followed by hydro and gas.

What is unbelievable about it?

I don’t see anything about Victoria being powered solely from solar?

This bit say it all:  He said the perfect conditions were lots of sun and relatively mild temperatures.

"This is just the first of many events like this," he said.

"Each sort of spring-ish period, what we have is a lot of sun in the sky and not a lot of demand.

So as long as the sun is shining, its warm and there is not a lot of demand, solar can supply 40% of the nation's electricity needs..Even if this claim were true, which I doubt, it shows just how ridiculous it is to depend on so called 'renewables' for our power.

When energy demand is down - lunch time, everyone has downed tools, sitting in the park eating their sandwiches. 

So how many millions did it cost for that half hour? Multiply by 48 and you may have an answer as to cost.

Edit: "Most of the power came from rooftop solar panels, rather than from large-scale solar farms"

So the large scale solar farms may not be fit for purpose? ::)

Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 21^st, 2022 at 8:04am:

Quote: The milestone occurred around lunchtime on Friday, with solar making up roughly 40 per cent of the market share and coal taking up 38 per cent. At the time, wind was the third-largest source of energy, followed by hydro and gas. What is unbelievable about it? I don’t see anything about Victoria being powered solely from solar?

The whole claim .... it's a nonsense.

Anyone believing it has "nosense".

Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 21^st, 2022 at 8:04am:

Quote: The milestone occurred around lunchtime on Friday, with solar making up roughly 40 per cent of the market share and coal taking up 38 per cent. At the time, wind was the third-largest source of energy, followed by hydro and gas. What is unbelievable about it? I don’t see anything about Victoria being powered solely from solar?

The report said all Australian states except Western Australia and the
Northern Territory, so presumably they meant Victoria was running on
solar for that half hour.  Which is why I called that claim bullshit.  I also
wonder what the baseload was at that time, and  from which source (coal
presumably?) it was supplied from.

The major problem with current (pun there?) baseload is that wind and/or
solar cannot provide it—which is critical.  They were also lucky that no load
shedding was necessitated during the half hour.

AusGeoff wrote on Aug 21^st, 2022 at 7:36pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 21st, 2022 at 8:04am: Quote: The milestone occurred around lunchtime on Friday, with solar making up roughly 40 per cent of the market share and coal taking up 38 per cent. At the time, wind was the third-largest source of energy, followed by hydro and gas. What is unbelievable about it? I don’t see anything about Victoria being powered solely from solar? The report said all Australian states except Western Australia and the Northern Territory, so presumably they meant Victoria was running on solar for that half hour.  Which is why I called that claim bullshit.  I also wonder what the baseload was at that time, and  from which source (coal presumably?) it was supplied from. The major problem with current (pun there?) baseload is that wind and/or solar cannot provide it—which is critical.  They were also lucky that no load shedding was necessitated during the half hour.

It's not bullshit, its the grid.

SA runs on 66% renewables.

I think someone needs to explain to Geoff and Lee what a battery is.

AusGeoff wrote on Aug 21^st, 2022 at 7:36pm:

Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 21st, 2022 at 8:04am: Quote: The milestone occurred around lunchtime on Friday, with solar making up roughly 40 per cent of the market share and coal taking up 38 per cent. At the time, wind was the third-largest source of energy, followed by hydro and gas. What is unbelievable about it? I don’t see anything about Victoria being powered solely from solar? The report said all Australian states except Western Australia and the Northern Territory, so presumably they meant Victoria was running on solar for that half hour.  Which is why I called that claim bullshit.  I also wonder what the baseload was at that time, and  from which source (coal presumably?) it was supplied from. The major problem with current (pun there?) baseload is that wind and/or solar cannot provide it—which is critical.  They were also lucky that no load shedding was necessitated during the half hour.

You made a wrong assumption.

They said the make up of sources was 40% solar, 38% coal. No mention of 100% solar as I said.

Read it again and you will see.

Big Battery—

1. Evens out the output of the renewable source, windfarm etc

2. Keeps the grid frequency in acceptable ranges when a coal fired power station crashes off line.

The idea that we need "baseload" is a complete furphy. Demand fluctuates wildly with the time of day, season etc. We have done our best to massage demand so it looks like a flat line, but only because that's what the supply looked like. Except of course when a large thermal power station goes offline unexpectedly. Then we get plunged into darkness. But that's OK, we soon realise it's not the end of the world. The power has just gone out, that's all.

freediver wrote on Aug 21^st, 2022 at 8:54pm:

The idea that we need "baseload" is a complete furphy. Demand fluctuates wildly with the time of day, season etc. We have done our best to massage demand so it looks like a flat line, but only because that's what the supply looked like. Except of course when a large thermal power station goes offline unexpectedly. Then we get plunged into darkness. But that's OK, we soon realise it's not the end of the world. The power has just gone out, that's all.

Dear FD,
after a storm in an eastern suburb of Melbourne -
many trees fell over power lines -
there were 1000's of SES call outs and they couldn't cope.
The power went out for 3 days at some addresses.
Even the phone towers went out soon after -
so there was no communication possible if there was an emergency.

so -
no phone,
people couldn't turn on any lights,
they couldn't cook any food,
they couldn't watch TV,
they couldn't use their computers.
They had no hot water for showers or washing.
The couldn't do the laundry.
All the food in their fridges went off.

It was a very grim situation and I don't know if anyone died due
to being unable to call an ambulance.

Jovial Monk wrote on Aug 21^st, 2022 at 8:13pm:

Big Battery— 1. Evens out the output of the renewable source, windfarm etc 2. Keeps the grid frequency in acceptable ranges when a coal fired power station crashes off line.

And doesn't [provide enough power for backup. ::)

freediver wrote on Aug 21^st, 2022 at 8:54pm:

The idea that we need "baseload" is a complete furphy.

Rubbish. Baseload is merely the power requires as and when needed. Hospitals use power all the time. Therefore they require some of that baseload power. Home refrigeration requires some of that baseload power.

Even The Conversation is a convert.

"Renewable energy can provide baseload power - here’s how"

https://theconversation.com/renewable-energy-can-provide-baseload-power-heres-how-2221

freediver wrote on Aug 21^st, 2022 at 8:54pm:

The idea that we need "baseload" is a complete furphy. Demand fluctuates wildly with the time of day, season etc. We have done our best to massage demand so it looks like a flat line, but only because that's what the supply looked like. Except of course when a large thermal power station goes offline unexpectedly. Then we get plunged into darkness. But that's OK, we soon realise it's not the end of the world. The power has just gone out, that's all.

:D :D

Unlike Clinton, you did inhale.  You are trying to be ironic from BOTH ends of that spliff,  FD. No baseload - power gone. Whatever your bag, man, m'kay......

Quote:

Hospitals use power all the time.

So what?


Quote:

Baseload is merely the power requires as and when needed.

It is not required, it is wanted. Just like chicken, or ipads. It is a meaningless concept, invented to explain our efforts in the past to make demand a flat line because the supply was a flat line. It is typically defined as the opposite of what you describe.

Bobby. wrote on Aug 21^st, 2022 at 10:06pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2022 at 8:54pm: The idea that we need "baseload" is a complete furphy. Demand fluctuates wildly with the time of day, season etc. We have done our best to massage demand so it looks like a flat line, but only because that's what the supply looked like. Except of course when a large thermal power station goes offline unexpectedly. Then we get plunged into darkness. But that's OK, we soon realise it's not the end of the world. The power has just gone out, that's all. Dear FD, after a storm in an eastern suburb of Melbourne - many trees fell over power lines - there were 1000's of SES call outs and they couldn't cope. The power went out for 3 days at some addresses. Even the phone towers went out soon after - so there was no communication possible if there was an emergency. so - no phone, people couldn't turn on any lights, they couldn't cook any food, they couldn't watch TV, they couldn't use their computers. They had no hot water for showers or washing. The couldn't do the laundry. All the food in their fridges went off. It was a very grim situation and I don't know if anyone died due to being unable to call an ambulance.

That is actually less likely to happen when we switch to renewables.

freediver wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 7:55am:

That is actually less likely to happen when we switch to renewables.

But you wrote

Quote:

Then we get plunged into darkness. But that's OK, we soon realise it's not the end of the world. The power has just gone out, that's all.

All I am saying is that it's not OK.

Bobby. wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 8:01am:

freediver wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 7:55am: That is actually less likely to happen when we switch to renewables. But you wrote Quote: Then we get plunged into darkness. But that's OK, we soon realise it's not the end of the world. The power has just gone out, that's all. All I am saying is that it's not OK.

I don't recall anyone saying the sky is falling last time it happened. You probably don't even remember.

With the billions already spent then I'm sure there was enough on the side to print off some propaganda pieces.
North Korea right here in Australia. 

I'm just not happy with being paid 5c a Kw to put power into the system, and then being charged 40c for it when I take it out.... and then being told that my contribution doesn't pay its way.

Well - phark them and their shareholders.  I'm re-visiting the idea of getting batteries installed and even cutting off supply from outside.

Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 8:50am:

I'm just not happy with being paid 5c a Kw to put power into the system, and then being charged 40c for it when I take it out.... and then being told that my contribution doesn't pay its way. Well - phark them and their shareholders.  I'm re-visiting the idea of getting batteries installed and even cutting off supply from outside.

The power companies have a good reason for that which
convinced the Govt. regulators.
A huge part of the cost of your electricity comes
from maintaining the network hardware e.g.
the power poles, transformers  and transmission lines.
Why should you use that for free?

Bobby. wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 9:22am:

Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 8:50am: I'm just not happy with being paid 5c a Kw to put power into the system, and then being charged 40c for it when I take it out.... and then being told that my contribution doesn't pay its way. Well - phark them and their shareholders.  I'm re-visiting the idea of getting batteries installed and even cutting off supply from outside. The power companies have a good reason for that which convinced the Govt. regulators. A huge part of the cost of your electricity comes from maintaining the network hardware e.g. the power poles, transformers  and transmission lines. Why should you use that for free?

True, but that can all be done without privatising.
The problem with electricity is its essential.
Essential services should not be privatised. 

Bobby. wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 9:22am:

Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 8:50am: I'm just not happy with being paid 5c a Kw to put power into the system, and then being charged 40c for it when I take it out.... and then being told that my contribution doesn't pay its way. Well - phark them and their shareholders.  I'm re-visiting the idea of getting batteries installed and even cutting off supply from outside. The power companies have a good reason for that which convinced the Govt. regulators. A huge part of the cost of your electricity comes from maintaining the network hardware e.g. the power poles, transformers  and transmission lines. Why should you use that for free?

Then I want a subsidy to get batteries.  I'm easy - if it's too hard for them they can do it without me and my base payment of a connection fee that DOES cover their costs - Essential Energy - while I pay for usage to another company.  They are lying, simple as that and I do not use the network for free.

Get the idea yet Bobby that they are lying to you again?  Got a grip on how business operates in this country these days?  Like some Third World Banana Republic dictatorship - and your government is not far behind that....

You ready to take back the asylum with me yet?  I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips.....

Good Bobby Hunting...... a hit movie...

Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 10:51am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 9:22am: Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 8:50am: I'm just not happy with being paid 5c a Kw to put power into the system, and then being charged 40c for it when I take it out.... and then being told that my contribution doesn't pay its way. Well - phark them and their shareholders.  I'm re-visiting the idea of getting batteries installed and even cutting off supply from outside. The power companies have a good reason for that which convinced the Govt. regulators. A huge part of the cost of your electricity comes from maintaining the network hardware e.g. the power poles, transformers  and transmission lines. Why should you use that for free? Then I want a subsidy to get batteries.  I'm easy - if it's too hard for them they can do it without me and my base payment of a connection fee that DOES cover their costs - Essential Energy - while I pay for usage to another company.  They are lying, simple as that and I do not use the network for free. Get the idea yet Bobby that they are lying to you again?  Got a grip on how business operates in this country these days?  Like some Third World Banana Republic dictatorship - and your government is not far behind that.... You ready to take back the asylum with me yet?  I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips..... Good Bobby Hunting...... a hit movie...

The corporate government of Australia has a job to do.
It's sole purpose is to remove money from us,  and give it to the corporations.

freediver wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 7:51am:

It is not required, it is wanted.

So hospitals don't require power? Is that built along the lines of your perpetual motion machine? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

freediver wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 7:55am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 21st, 2022 at 10:06pm: freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2022 at 8:54pm: The idea that we need "baseload" is a complete furphy. Demand fluctuates wildly with the time of day, season etc. We have done our best to massage demand so it looks like a flat line, but only because that's what the supply looked like. Except of course when a large thermal power station goes offline unexpectedly. Then we get plunged into darkness. But that's OK, we soon realise it's not the end of the world. The power has just gone out, that's all. Dear FD, after a storm in an eastern suburb of Melbourne - many trees fell over power lines - there were 1000's of SES call outs and they couldn't cope. The power went out for 3 days at some addresses. Even the phone towers went out soon after - so there was no communication possible if there was an emergency. so - no phone, people couldn't turn on any lights, they couldn't cook any food, they couldn't watch TV, they couldn't use their computers. They had no hot water for showers or washing. The couldn't do the laundry. All the food in their fridges went off. It was a very grim situation and I don't know if anyone died due to being unable to call an ambulance. That is actually less likely to happen when we switch to renewables.

How is that? Going to knockdown all the power poles & make supply all underground?

Nevermind that even doing that makes the supply breakdown situation similar in times of flooding.

Bobby. wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 9:22am:

Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 8:50am: I'm just not happy with being paid 5c a Kw to put power into the system, and then being charged 40c for it when I take it out.... and then being told that my contribution doesn't pay its way. Well - phark them and their shareholders.  I'm re-visiting the idea of getting batteries installed and even cutting off supply from outside. The power companies have a good reason for that which convinced the Govt. regulators. A huge part of the cost of your electricity comes from maintaining the network hardware e.g. the power poles, transformers  and transmission lines. Why should you use that for free?

You don't get it for free ... check your bill.

And don't forget states sold off electricity assets to private enterprise .....

and they have had a pretty shyte record of reducing infrastructure maintenance in the hunt for profits ......

yet all customers are still being charged increased fees for that system maintenance.

Captain Caveman wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 10:11am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 9:22am: Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 8:50am: I'm just not happy with being paid 5c a Kw to put power into the system, and then being charged 40c for it when I take it out.... and then being told that my contribution doesn't pay its way. Well - phark them and their shareholders.  I'm re-visiting the idea of getting batteries installed and even cutting off supply from outside. The power companies have a good reason for that which convinced the Govt. regulators. A huge part of the cost of your electricity comes from maintaining the network hardware e.g. the power poles, transformers  and transmission lines. Why should you use that for free? True, but that can all be done without privatising. The problem with electricity is its essential. Essential services should not be privatised.

Is food essential?

Where do people get this garbage from? The socialist alliance?

freediver wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 7:38am:

Captain Caveman wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 10:11am: Bobby. wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 9:22am: Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 8:50am: I'm just not happy with being paid 5c a Kw to put power into the system, and then being charged 40c for it when I take it out.... and then being told that my contribution doesn't pay its way. Well - phark them and their shareholders.  I'm re-visiting the idea of getting batteries installed and even cutting off supply from outside. The power companies have a good reason for that which convinced the Govt. regulators. A huge part of the cost of your electricity comes from maintaining the network hardware e.g. the power poles, transformers  and transmission lines. Why should you use that for free? True, but that can all be done without privatising. The problem with electricity is its essential. Essential services should not be privatised.  Is food essential? Where do people get this garbage from? The socialist alliance?

Stupid question .... the statement was about electricity.

Gnads wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2022 at 3:26pm:

freediver wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 7:55am: Bobby. wrote on Aug 21st, 2022 at 10:06pm: freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2022 at 8:54pm: The idea that we need "baseload" is a complete furphy. Demand fluctuates wildly with the time of day, season etc. We have done our best to massage demand so it looks like a flat line, but only because that's what the supply looked like. Except of course when a large thermal power station goes offline unexpectedly. Then we get plunged into darkness. But that's OK, we soon realise it's not the end of the world. The power has just gone out, that's all. Dear FD, after a storm in an eastern suburb of Melbourne - many trees fell over power lines - there were 1000's of SES call outs and they couldn't cope. The power went out for 3 days at some addresses. Even the phone towers went out soon after - so there was no communication possible if there was an emergency. so - no phone, people couldn't turn on any lights, they couldn't cook any food, they couldn't watch TV, they couldn't use their computers. They had no hot water for showers or washing. The couldn't do the laundry. All the food in their fridges went off. It was a very grim situation and I don't know if anyone died due to being unable to call an ambulance. That is actually less likely to happen when we switch to renewables. How is that? Going to knockdown all the power poles & make supply all underground? Nevermind that even doing that makes the supply breakdown situation similar in times of flooding.

The system will be far less centralised with renewables. It will resemble more of a network than a tree structure. There will be a need for a lot of battery storage. Depending on the technology used, a lot of that storage can be in the city. Even electric vehicles can double as batteries, so if you loose power at your house, you can disconnect from the grid at the fuse box and run your fridge from your car.

So the grid will be far less susceptible to interruption caused by cutting a single line.

You make a whole lot of assumptions about how the grid "needs" to operate, but there is absolutely nothing necessary about it. It is merely a consequence of the inevitable centralisation associated with thermal power stations. If we transition to a supply that is not as prone to centralisation, a lot of the problems associated with that centralisation will disappear.

Gnads wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 7:42am:

freediver wrote on Aug 23rd, 2022 at 7:38am: Captain Caveman wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 10:11am: Bobby. wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 9:22am: Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 8:50am: I'm just not happy with being paid 5c a Kw to put power into the system, and then being charged 40c for it when I take it out.... and then being told that my contribution doesn't pay its way. Well - phark them and their shareholders.  I'm re-visiting the idea of getting batteries installed and even cutting off supply from outside. The power companies have a good reason for that which convinced the Govt. regulators. A huge part of the cost of your electricity comes from maintaining the network hardware e.g. the power poles, transformers  and transmission lines. Why should you use that for free? True, but that can all be done without privatising. The problem with electricity is its essential. Essential services should not be privatised.  Is food essential? Where do people get this garbage from? The socialist alliance? Stupid question .... the statement was about electricity.

No, the statement is about economics. The economics of the economically illiterate. This is what you said:


Quote:

Essential services should not be privatised.

Do you think this is true by itself, or is it only true if you first pick and choose what industry to apply it to, based on whether the socialist alliance thinks it should be state run?

freediver wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 7:47am:

Gnads wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 3:26pm: freediver wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 7:55am: Bobby. wrote on Aug 21st, 2022 at 10:06pm: freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2022 at 8:54pm: The idea that we need "baseload" is a complete furphy. Demand fluctuates wildly with the time of day, season etc. We have done our best to massage demand so it looks like a flat line, but only because that's what the supply looked like. Except of course when a large thermal power station goes offline unexpectedly. Then we get plunged into darkness. But that's OK, we soon realise it's not the end of the world. The power has just gone out, that's all. Dear FD, after a storm in an eastern suburb of Melbourne - many trees fell over power lines - there were 1000's of SES call outs and they couldn't cope. The power went out for 3 days at some addresses. Even the phone towers went out soon after - so there was no communication possible if there was an emergency. so - no phone, people couldn't turn on any lights, they couldn't cook any food, they couldn't watch TV, they couldn't use their computers. They had no hot water for showers or washing. The couldn't do the laundry. All the food in their fridges went off. It was a very grim situation and I don't know if anyone died due to being unable to call an ambulance. That is actually less likely to happen when we switch to renewables. How is that? Going to knockdown all the power poles & make supply all underground? Nevermind that even doing that makes the supply breakdown situation similar in times of flooding. The system will be far less centralised with renewables. It will resemble more of a network than a tree structure. There will be a need for a lot of battery storage. Depending on the technology used, a lot of that storage can be in the city. Even electric vehicles can double as batteries, so if you loose power at your house, you can disconnect from the grid at the fuse box and run your fridge from your car. So the grid will be far less susceptible to interruption caused by cutting a single line. You make a whole lot of assumptions about how the grid "needs" to operate, but there is absolutely nothing necessary about it. It is merely a consequence of the inevitable centralisation associated with thermal power stations. If we transition to a supply that is not as prone to centralisation, a lot of the problems associated with that centralisation will disappear.

What BS ..... where are the current(what's left of them) Coal fired power stations?

They certainly aren't & never have been centralised.

Decentralisation was a thing pushed for most states & at one stage that's how QLD operated.

But as time went by & as more privatisation took hold .... all in the name of competition & so called cheaper prices.....

companies(even banks & railways) rationalised & moved majority operations into the major capitals of each state.

leaving token operations in a few regional centres.

So the "decentralisation" claim has in the main been all lip service.

Renewables operations are dependent on suitable locations for wind & more consistently available sunlight .... & they need to be closer to grid access or else be up for extensive costs of distance in putting in connection lines, whether they be underground or above ground transmission poles.

Quote:

They certainly aren't & never have been centralised.

Wow. That went right over your head.

Centralised does not have to mean one.

freediver wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 7:52am:

Gnads wrote on Aug 23rd, 2022 at 7:42am: freediver wrote on Aug 23rd, 2022 at 7:38am: Captain Caveman wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 10:11am: Bobby. wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 9:22am: Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 8:50am: I'm just not happy with being paid 5c a Kw to put power into the system, and then being charged 40c for it when I take it out.... and then being told that my contribution doesn't pay its way. Well - phark them and their shareholders.  I'm re-visiting the idea of getting batteries installed and even cutting off supply from outside. The power companies have a good reason for that which convinced the Govt. regulators. A huge part of the cost of your electricity comes from maintaining the network hardware e.g. the power poles, transformers  and transmission lines. Why should you use that for free? True, but that can all be done without privatising. The problem with electricity is its essential. Essential services should not be privatised.  Is food essential? Where do people get this garbage from? The socialist alliance? Stupid question .... the statement was about electricity. No, the statement is about economics. The economics of the economically illiterate. This is what you said: [highlight]Essential services should not be privatised. Do you think this is true by itself, or is it only true if you first pick and choose what industry to apply it to, based on whether the socialist alliance thinks it should be state run?

No .... that's what Caveman said ::)

However I agree with him.

We as consumers have seen no benefit from its supposed reduction in prices because of competition.

freediver wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2022 at 7:52am:

Gnads wrote on Aug 23rd, 2022 at 7:42am: freediver wrote on Aug 23rd, 2022 at 7:38am: Captain Caveman wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 10:11am: Bobby. wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 9:22am: Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 22nd, 2022 at 8:50am: I'm just not happy with being paid 5c a Kw to put power into the system, and then being charged 40c for it when I take it out.... and then being told that my contribution doesn't pay its way. Well - phark them and their shareholders.  I'm re-visiting the idea of getting batteries installed and even cutting off supply from outside. The power companies have a good reason for that which convinced the Govt. regulators. A huge part of the cost of your electricity comes from maintaining the network hardware e.g. the power poles, transformers  and transmission lines. Why should you use that for free? True, but that can all be done without privatising. The problem with electricity is its essential. Essential services should not be privatised.  Is food essential? Where do people get this garbage from? The socialist alliance? Stupid question .... the statement was about electricity. No, the statement is about economics. The economics of the economically illiterate. This is what you said: Quote: Essential services should not be privatised. Do you think this is true by itself, or is it only true if you first pick and choose what industry to apply it to, based on whether the socialist alliance thinks it should be state run?

Of course you can pick and choose - food is optional in that people choose what they want to eat and some have different dietary requirements, so it is an open market.  Certain things are only used by certain people.  Power is always the same..... so again this morning - that is a false comparison - one from divide and one from you so far.  Wait for the real doozies to get in from the overnight high....

Underlying to an economy and to each person in it services should never be opened to a New Robber Baron market style operation, which to date here, has clearly been a total failure.

So many issues to fix in a government of national repair..... essential services resumed; equality restored across the board; a fair go installed for everyone EQUALLY; land and home rights protected, including national parks held in trust for all the people; the list goes on...... and on ......

Maybe war will finally bring some of you to your senses..... start getting fit all you keyboard heroes.... you're gonna need it ....I'm already in the pipeline to go fill in a spot with the Guv..... no need to be that fit - I ain't running them hills...

So it's Grappler this, and Grappler that,
And Grappler git be'ind!
But it's please to walk in front,SIR,
When there's trouble in the wind...

And there's trouble in the wind, boys...
There's trouble in the wind.....