https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_(finance)

Research indicates that banning short selling is ineffective and has negative effects on markets. Nevertheless, short selling is subject to criticism and periodically faces hostility from society and policymakers.

Short sellers are the scum of the Earth. They should be suspended from a great height by their scrotums.

Why do people get emotional about this? Do you think they are Jews or something?

For those of us that don't play on the stock market, what exactly is 'short selling'?

You think BHP shares are going to crash. So you ring up your friend who owns some, ask to borrow them, sell them when he is not looking, then when he asks for them back, buy fresh ones at a lower price and give him them.

You can play on the stock market without ever coming across it.

“What bothers me isn't that fraud is not nice. Or that fraud is mean. For fifteen thousand years, fraud and short-sighted thinking have never, ever worked. Not once. Eventually you get caught, things go south. When the hell did we forget all that?” — Mark Baum, The Big Short

(a film depicting the collapse of Lehman Brothers,  during the GFC).

Is your BS detector completely broken?

Captain Nemo wrote on Jul 12^th, 2022 at 12:31pm:

Short sellers are the scum of the Earth. They should be suspended from a great height by their scrotums.

It can be used nefariously but most of the time it's just a form of insurance.
If you don't know why then you don't know why.

It was futures trading that bankrupted Barings Bank:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barings_Bank


The bank collapsed in 1995 after suffering losses of £827 million (£1.7 billion in 2021)[2]
resulting from fraudulent investments, primarily in futures contracts,
conducted by its employee Nick Leeson, working at its office in Singapore.

John Smith wrote on Jul 12^th, 2022 at 7:32pm:

For those of us that don't play on the stock market, what exactly is 'short selling'?

In short selling, an investor borrows stock shares that they believe will drop in price, sells those borrowed shares at market price, then buys back the shares at a lower price. To complete the short sale, the investor returns the shares to the original lender and profits the difference between the buy and sell prices.


Sometimes the practice is coupled with false reports about a stock to influence a sell-off.

One example on the ASX was today involving LAKE RESOURCES N.L.

A scumbag short seller mob released what will turn out to be a false report about the Lithium extraction process that company is developing being a failure.

Notorious Short seller J Capital Research (which has a record of market manipulation to force stock prices down on target companies) released a 17 page "report" saying the process is a dud.

The company is then forced to call a trading halt in order to stem the sell-off and prepare a reply refuting the report.

Invariably, the effect of the report results in a sell-off despite the company refuting the report's content.

The scumbag short-sellers then clean up.  >:(

They are a bunch of ratbags and game the market, in my opinion they are deriving profit by deception. They should be sued and fined and jailed.

Captain Nemo wrote on Jul 12^th, 2022 at 9:33pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 12th, 2022 at 7:32pm: For those of us that don't play on the stock market, what exactly is 'short selling'? In short selling, an investor borrows stock shares that they believe will drop in price, sells those borrowed shares at market price, then buys back the shares at a lower price. To complete the short sale, the investor returns the shares to the original lender and profits the difference between the buy and sell prices. Sometimes the practice is coupled with false reports about a stock to influence a sell-off. One example on the ASX was today involving LAKE RESOURCES N.L. A scumbag short seller mob released what will turn out to be a false report about the Lithium extraction process that company is developing being a failure. Notorious Short seller J Capital Research (which has a record of market manipulation to force stock prices down on target companies) released a 17 page "report" saying the process is a dud. The company is then forced to call a trading halt in order to stem the sell-off and prepare a reply refuting the report. Invariably, the effect of the report results in a sell-off despite the company refuting the report's content. The scumbag short-sellers then clean up.  >:( They are a bunch of ratbags and game the market, in my opinion they are deriving profit by deception. They should be sued and fined and jailed.

People can just as easily make false reports that cause the stock to go up.
There is nothing wrong with the mechanics of shorting.

I prefer Options as a method of shorting a stock.
They are more complex, but can be safer.
Buy Call options. Too late now.

' ........ Call and Put Options
If you buy an options contract, it grants you the right but not the obligation to buy or sell an underlying asset at a set price on or before a certain date. A call option gives the holder the right to buy a stock and a put option gives the holder the right to sell a stock. ..... '

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 12^th, 2022 at 9:53pm:

I prefer Options as a method of shorting a stock. They are more complex, but can be safer. Buy Call options. Too late now. ' ........ Call and Put Options If you buy an options contract, it grants you the right but not the obligation to buy or sell an underlying asset at a set price on or before a certain date. A call option gives the holder the right to buy a stock and a put option gives the holder the right to sell a stock. ..... '

I've made good money buying caĺls and puts on BHP.

Short sellers have zero interest in a company growing, expanding, making higher profits and employing more people leading to a natural share price growth. Instead, they only play a game to make profit with not a care in the world if they destroy a company in the process.

Captain Nemo wrote on Jul 12^th, 2022 at 11:24pm:

Short sellers have zero interest in a company growing, expanding, making higher profits and employing more people leading to a natural share price growth. Instead, they only play a game to make profit with not a care in the world if they destroy a company in the process.

Gordon Gekko,

“The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good.
Greed is right. Greed works.
Greed clarifies, cuts through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.”

“Greed, in all of its forms — greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge —
has marked the upward surge of mankind.”

Captain Nemo wrote on Jul 12^th, 2022 at 11:24pm:

Short sellers have zero interest in a company growing, expanding, making higher profits and employing more people leading to a natural share price growth. Instead, they only play a game to make profit with not a care in the world if they destroy a company in the process.

I don't know about you, but I only play the stockmarket for the good of mankind.

Captain Nemo wrote on Jul 12^th, 2022 at 9:33pm:

In short selling, an investor borrows stock shares that they believe will drop in price, sells those borrowed shares at market price, then buys back the shares at a lower price. To complete the short sale, the investor returns the shares to the original lender and profits the difference between the buy and sell prices.

and where does one go to borrow shares?

Share lending / borrowing is via a share broker.

I hate the whole idea of shorting stocks I have never done it and never will.

There is such a thing as ethical share ownership.

Nemo, you're usually on point with most things but not on this.

There is literally no more opportunity for corrupt people to influence a share to down as there is up. Hello pump and dump which is just as harmful for regular investors.

I don't short but I buy puts which make money if a share goes down.

John Smith wrote on Jul 13^th, 2022 at 8:56am:

Captain Nemo wrote on Jul 12th, 2022 at 9:33pm: In short selling, an investor borrows stock shares that they believe will drop in price, sells those borrowed shares at market price, then buys back the shares at a lower price. To complete the short sale, the investor returns the shares to the original lender and profits the difference between the buy and sell prices. and where does one go to borrow shares?

The internet would be a good start. There are 101 different ways to do it.


Quote:

There is such a thing as ethical share ownership.

Can you explain it?


Quote:

I don't short but I buy puts which make money if a share goes down.

In terms of what people are complaining about, there is no meaningful difference.

freediver wrote on Jul 13^th, 2022 at 6:37am:

Captain Nemo wrote on Jul 12th, 2022 at 11:24pm: Short sellers have zero interest in a company growing, expanding, making higher profits and employing more people leading to a natural share price growth. Instead, they only play a game to make profit with not a care in the world if they destroy a company in the process. I don't know about you, but I only play the stockmarket for the good of mankind.

Are you saying that:

“The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good.
Greed is right. Greed works.
Greed clarifies, cuts through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.”

“Greed, in all of its forms — greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge —
has marked the upward surge of mankind.”

Bobby. wrote on Jul 13^th, 2022 at 5:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 13th, 2022 at 6:37am: Captain Nemo wrote on Jul 12th, 2022 at 11:24pm: Short sellers have zero interest in a company growing, expanding, making higher profits and employing more people leading to a natural share price growth. Instead, they only play a game to make profit with not a care in the world if they destroy a company in the process. I don't know about you, but I only play the stockmarket for the good of mankind. Are you saying that: “The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.” “Greed, in all of its forms — greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge — has marked the upward surge of mankind.”

No bobby, I am thinking my own thoughts.

freediver wrote on Jul 13^th, 2022 at 5:35pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 13th, 2022 at 5:35pm: freediver wrote on Jul 13th, 2022 at 6:37am: Captain Nemo wrote on Jul 12th, 2022 at 11:24pm: Short sellers have zero interest in a company growing, expanding, making higher profits and employing more people leading to a natural share price growth. Instead, they only play a game to make profit with not a care in the world if they destroy a company in the process. I don't know about you, but I only play the stockmarket for the good of mankind. Are you saying that: “The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.” “Greed, in all of its forms — greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge — has marked the upward surge of mankind.” No bobby, I am thinking my own thoughts.

Sorry - for a moment there I thought you were Gordon Gekko.   :-[

The short sellers can be pirates for greater good, but they can also just be pirates.

Markets have no morality.

freediver wrote on Jul 13^th, 2022 at 5:33pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 13th, 2022 at 8:56am: Captain Nemo wrote on Jul 12th, 2022 at 9:33pm: In short selling, an investor borrows stock shares that they believe will drop in price, sells those borrowed shares at market price, then buys back the shares at a lower price. To complete the short sale, the investor returns the shares to the original lender and profits the difference between the buy and sell prices. and where does one go to borrow shares? The internet would be a good start. There are 101 different ways to do it. Quote: There is such a thing as ethical share ownership. Can you explain it? [quote]I don't short but I buy puts which make money if a share goes down.

In terms of what people are complaining about, there is no meaningful difference.[/quote]

I have nothing philosophically against shorting, but I prefer the mechanics of just buying a put so I can decide the exact amount of money I'm risking.

freediver wrote on Jul 13^th, 2022 at 5:33pm:

John Smith wrote on Jul 13th, 2022 at 8:56am: Captain Nemo wrote on Jul 12th, 2022 at 9:33pm: In short selling, an investor borrows stock shares that they believe will drop in price, sells those borrowed shares at market price, then buys back the shares at a lower price. To complete the short sale, the investor returns the shares to the original lender and profits the difference between the buy and sell prices. and where does one go to borrow shares? The internet would be a good start. There are 101 different ways to do it. Quote: There is such a thing as ethical share ownership. Can you explain it? [quote]I don't short but I buy puts which make money if a share goes down.

In terms of what people are complaining about, there is no meaningful difference.[/quote]

Options have no bearing on a share price.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 13^th, 2022 at 8:42pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 13th, 2022 at 5:33pm: John Smith wrote on Jul 13th, 2022 at 8:56am: Captain Nemo wrote on Jul 12th, 2022 at 9:33pm: In short selling, an investor borrows stock shares that they believe will drop in price, sells those borrowed shares at market price, then buys back the shares at a lower price. To complete the short sale, the investor returns the shares to the original lender and profits the difference between the buy and sell prices. and where does one go to borrow shares? The internet would be a good start. There are 101 different ways to do it. Quote: There is such a thing as ethical share ownership. Can you explain it? [quote]I don't short but I buy puts which make money if a share goes down. In terms of what people are complaining about, there is no meaningful difference.

Options have no bearing on a share price.
[/quote]

In theory..here's a good but complicated explanation.

https://www.hashtaginvesting.com/blog/how-does-options-trading-have-an-influence-on-stock-prices

The people you buy the option from are going to buy or sell shares to hedge their bets.

freediver wrote on Jul 13^th, 2022 at 9:09pm:

The people you buy the option from are going to buy or sell shares to hedge their bets.

Generally the people who sell options already own the share or intend to buy them in the furture