Raw material and logistics inflation coupled with downward price pressures from auctions have led to an unsustainable situation where wind OEMs are selling at a loss, with the sector unable to deliver Europe's planned tripling of wind capacity by 2030, industry leaders have warned.

“The state of the supply chain is ultimately unhealthy right now,” GE Renewable Energy chief executive for onshore wind, Sheri Hickok, told a panel at the WindEurope 2022 conference in Bilbao on Tuesday.

“It is unhealthy because we have an inflationary market that is beyond what anybody anticipated even last year. Steel is going up three times.”

Steel for offshore wind towers is currently being purchased at over $2,000 per tonne, Hickok gave as example, adding that the prices of copper, carbon and logistics had also soared.

“It is really ridiculous to think how we can sustain a supply chain in a growing industry with these kind of pressures.”

After hefty price hikes last year in the wake of the Covid-19 pandemic “things were higher but stabilising,” Hickok said, but added that with Russia’s war in Ukraine, the entire system had “unhinched” again in the past eight weeks, making it unsustainable at an unprecedented level of uncertainty.

The GE executive said she is very fearful for the entire wind industry ecosystem.

“Right now, different suppliers within the industry are reducing their footprint, they are reducing jobs in Europe,” she explained.

“If the government thinks that on a dime, this supply chain is going to be able to turn around and meet two to three times the demand, it is not reasonable.”

The European Commission’s recent REPowerEU plan, formulated in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, wants wind power capacity to soar from 190GW today to 480GW by 2030.
Destructive loop

Nordex chief executive José Luis Blanco stressed that even before the Ukraine war, the economics in the wind industry had been destroyed due to price pressures from competitive tenders coupled with a low visibility of wind capacity pipelines due to failed government policies.

“We are still selling at loss, because of the dynamic of auctions, the low predictability of volumes,” Blanco told the conference.

“We are investing in volumes in trust in market dynamics, then the volume doesn’t come, then a factory is empty, [and then] it is better [to have] some cash flow than no cash flow — and [consequently] the sector enters into a self-destructive loop.”

Blanco also said if Europe wants to triple its wind power capacity, it needs to better support the independence of the supply chain.

Currently, some 85% of the industry’s components are, however, coming from China, he said.

“The energy independence is supported by a supply-chain dependency policy. This a huge risk.”

Blanco was not only referring to rare earths, but said “normal things” such as metallic shafts in turbines, 95% of which are sourced in China.
All onshore OEMs in trouble

Enercon’s new chief executive Jürgen Zeschky went even further, saying “all European onshore OEMs are in trouble.”

Over the past eight years, cost was the only driver for developments, with low levelised costs of energy and low turbine prices driving the whole business, he told WindEurope 2022.

“We have reached a low cost base, but at the price of outsourcing to low-cost countries,” Zeschky admitted.

“If you look at Europe and Germany, we are constantly losing jobs in industry by relocating to other places.”

But the situation has changed fundamentally, he pointed out.

Due to Russia’s war in Ukraine, “we are faced with a situation, where it is not only about cost, but about an independent, resilient and reliable energy situation in Europe”.

To have sustainable energy generation, Europe needs a sustainable industry, and thus has to overcome being constricted to the lowest cost, he explained.

“That needs to change.”

https://www.rechargenews.com/wind/were-all-in-trouble-wind-turbine-makers-selling-at-a-loss-and-in-a-self-destructive-loop-bosses-admit/2-1-1197217

So they are selling at a lost, but will be unable to meet expected demand?

Sounds like someone is trying to spin it both ways at the same time.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/3MbRNvfnMyUJeKGlsw/giphy.gif
Wind turbines are such an eyesore.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ucs-images/soot+storymap/coal-smoke-lq.gif
We need more of these!

"These decisions are made even more difficult by China's control of the 35 so-called "critical minerals", which are not only vital for the transition to renewable energy but for economic and national security. The US and its allies fear Beijing could restrict or cut off supply in times of conflict.

And then there's the need to quickly act on climate change.

"Everything is now an emergency," says entrepreneur and inventor Saul Griffith, whose advocacy organisation Re-wiring America has advised US politicians and businesses.

"We need to be making wind turbines 10 times as fast as we do. We need to be making solar cells 10 times as fast as we do. We need to be making batteries and electric vehicles 10 times as fast as we do today."

"An electric vehicle needs about 200kg of minerals like copper, nickel, cobalt, and lithium. That's six times more than a petrol-powered car.

A wind turbine needs four times more minerals than a coal-fired power station to generate the same amount of electricity.

These tough choices are increasingly becoming a trade-off between preserving local habitats and the global effort to avert the worst effects of climate change.

Kirsty Howey from the Northern Territory Environment Centre says it's "a confounding issue for the environmental movement".

"There's absolutely no doubt that we have to move to mining of critical minerals if we are going to address the climate crisis," she says.

But she argues governments need to ensure miners adopt far higher environmental standards as Australia gears up for its latest boom."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-09/renewable-energy-may-require-australian-mining-boom/101034914

lee wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 7:14pm:

A wind turbine needs four times more minerals than a coal-fired power station to generate the same amount of electricity.

Show me a wind turbine that generates the same amount of electricity as a coal fired power station.

https://c.tenor.com/5ya5z5dQWH4AAAAM/you-cant-make-this-stuff-up-hands-up.gif

lee wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 7:14pm:

"These decisions are made even more difficult by China's control of the 35 so-called "critical minerals", which are not only vital for the transition to renewable energy but for economic and national security. The US and its allies fear Beijing could restrict or cut off supply in times of conflict. And then there's the need to quickly act on climate change. "Everything is now an emergency," says entrepreneur and inventor Saul Griffith, whose advocacy organisation Re-wiring America has advised US politicians and businesses. "We need to be making wind turbines 10 times as fast as we do. We need to be making solar cells 10 times as fast as we do. We need to be making batteries and electric vehicles 10 times as fast as we do today." "An electric vehicle needs about 200kg of minerals like copper, nickel, cobalt, and lithium. That's six times more than a petrol-powered car. A wind turbine needs four times more minerals than a coal-fired power station to generate the same amount of electricity. These tough choices are increasingly becoming a trade-off between preserving local habitats and the global effort to avert the worst effects of climate change. Kirsty Howey from the Northern Territory Environment Centre says it's "a confounding issue for the environmental movement". "There's absolutely no doubt that we have to move to mining of critical minerals if we are going to address the climate crisis," she says. But she argues governments need to ensure miners adopt far higher environmental standards as Australia gears up for its latest boom." https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-09/renewable-energy-may-require-australian-mining-boom/101034914

What critical minerals are needed for windy mills, they are generators on a cement stick with a fibreglass prop.

Johnnie wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 7:23pm:

What critical minerals are needed for windy mills, they are generators on a cement stick with a fibreglass prop.

Generators need copper one on each tower.

Towers need steel.

The magnets use rare earths.

https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/critical-mineral-commodities-renewable-energy

"Clean energy demand for critical minerals set to soar as the world pursues net zero goals"

https://www.iea.org/news/clean-energy-demand-for-critical-minerals-set-to-soar-as-the-world-pursues-net-zero-goals

lee wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 7:30pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 7:23pm: What critical minerals are needed for windy mills, they are generators on a cement stick with a fibreglass prop. Generators need copper one on each tower. Towers need steel. The magnets use rare earths. https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/critical-mineral-commodities-renewable-energy "Clean energy demand for critical minerals set to soar as the world pursues net zero goals" https://www.iea.org/news/clean-energy-demand-for-critical-minerals-set-to-soar-as-the-world-pursues-net-zero-goals

You reckon we are running out of copper steel and magnetic material, i thought you meant cobolt lithium or something.

random wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 7:07pm:

https://media2.giphy.com/media/3MbRNvfnMyUJeKGlsw/giphy.gif Wind turbines are such an eyesore. https://s3.amazonaws.com/ucs-images/soot+storymap/coal-smoke-lq.gif We need more of these!

it's hilarious how lee always tries to claim that the small windmill is unsustainable but the giant steel mill,with 1000 times the raw materials required,is perfectly fine :D :D :D

lee wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 7:30pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 7:23pm: What critical minerals are needed for windy mills, they are generators on a cement stick with a fibreglass prop. Generators need copper one on each tower. Towers need steel. The magnets use rare earths. https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/critical-mineral-commodities-renewable-energy "Clean energy demand for critical minerals set to soar as the world pursues net zero goals" https://www.iea.org/news/clean-energy-demand-for-critical-minerals-set-to-soar-as-the-world-pursues-net-zero-goals

Well I guess we have a choice.

[olist]

Dig up more rare earths

Die from the four horsemen of the apocolypse
[/olist]

I'll take option 1.

Anyway coal freaks love mines right?

https://media2.giphy.com/media/55bqVL2msLyT2OqvDp/200.gif

John Smith wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 7:41pm:

it's hilarious how lee always tries to claim that the small windmill is unsustainable but the giant steel mill,with 1000 times the raw materials required,is perfectly fine

Poor Guido. What small windmill? The ones used by the dutch or the ones used by Aussie farmers?

So this giant steel mill what is it going to use for energy? Green hydrogen according to studies returns 18-46% of the power in the round from generating the hydrogen to powering something with that hydrogen.

https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/hydrogen-technology-faces-efficiency-disadvantage-in-power-storage-race-65162028
..Again too funny. ;D ;D ;D ;D

random wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 7:47pm:

lee wrote Today at 5:30pm: walker wrote Today at 5:23pm: What critical minerals are needed for windy mills, they are generators on a cement stick with a fibreglass prop. Generators need copper one on each tower. Towers need steel. The magnets use rare earths. https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/critical-mineral-commodities-renewable-energy "Clean energy demand for critical minerals set to soar as the world pursues net zero goals" https://www.iea.org/news/clean-energy-demand-for-critical-minerals-set-to-soar-a... Well I guess we have a choice.     Dig up more rare earths     Die from the four horsemen of the apocolypse I'll take option 1.

And damn the environment. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Johnnie wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 7:38pm:

You reckon we are running out of copper steel and magnetic material, i thought you meant cobolt lithium or something.

Even the rare earth price is going up.

"Lithium Prices Have Nearly Doubled In 2022 Amid Insane Commodity Rally"

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/lithium-prices-nearly-doubled-2022-170000490.html

Copper is also up.

https://www.dailyfx.com/copper-prices

"Cobalt prices to rise as demand-supply deficit widens: analysts "

https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/market-insights/latest-news/metals/051821-cobalt-prices-to-rise-as-demand-supply-deficit-widens-analysts

Cobalt too.

lee wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 7:54pm:

[quote author=random link=1650008296/9#9 And damn the environment. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Well I guess we have a choice.

    Dig up more rare earths
    Die from the four horsemen of the apocolypse

I'll take option 1.

Anyway coal freaks love mines right?

https://c.tenor.com/R0MlsXWGFIQAAAAC/pacino-rapote.gif

 

random wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 7:59pm:

I'll take option 1. Anyway coal freaks love mines right?

The best poor randy can do is mindless repetition. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

lee wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 7:58pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 7:38pm: You reckon we are running out of copper steel and magnetic material, i thought you meant cobolt lithium or something. Even the rare earth price is going up. "Lithium Prices Have Nearly Doubled In 2022 Amid Insane Commodity Rally" https://finance.yahoo.com/news/lithium-prices-nearly-doubled-2022-170000490.html Copper is also up. https://www.dailyfx.com/copper-prices "Cobalt prices to rise as demand-supply deficit widens: analysts " https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/market-insights/latest-news/metals/051821-cobalt-prices-to-rise-as-demand-supply-deficit-widens-analysts Cobalt too.

Yes prices have gone up but the main materials needed like steel copper and cement are in abundance. We will run out of air before we run out of them.

lee wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 8:00pm:

random wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 7:59pm: I'll take option 1. Anyway coal freaks love mines right? The best poor randy can do is mindless repetition. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I'm guessing that it takes many repetitions to get something into your thick skull.  All the scientists on the planet have so far failed.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/55bqVL2msLyT2OqvDp/200.gif

Johnnie wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 8:04pm:

Yes prices have gone up but the main materials needed like steel copper and cement are in abundance. We will run out of air before we run out of them.

Now all you have to do is factor in the many thousand of wind turbines needing to be manufactured and mounted.

lee wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 7:53pm:

John Smith wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 7:41pm: it's hilarious how lee always tries to claim that the small windmill is unsustainable but the giant steel mill,with 1000 times the raw materials required,is perfectly fine Poor Guido. What small windmill? The ones used by the dutch or the ones used by Aussie farmers? So this giant steel mill what is it going to use for energy? Green hydrogen according to studies returns 18-46% of the power in the round from generating the hydrogen to powering something with that hydrogen. https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/hydrogen-technology-faces-efficiency-disadvantage-in-power-storage-race-65162028 ..Again too funny. ;D ;D ;D ;D

are you pretending a windmill, and a coal burning electricity generator are even remotely similar in size? or use anywhere near the same amount of raw materials ?

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


you're stupidity is only surpassed by your ----------

ohh wait, nothing surpasses your stupidity

random wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 8:06pm:

I'm guessing that it takes many repetitions to get something into your thick skull.  All the scientists on the planet have so far failed.

Even more to find you brain. Never mind randy we know. ;D ;D ;D ;D

random wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 7:07pm:

https://media2.giphy.com/media/3MbRNvfnMyUJeKGlsw/giphy.gif Wind turbines are such an eyesore. https://s3.amazonaws.com/ucs-images/soot+storymap/coal-smoke-lq.gif We need more of these!

You do realise, Greta  - no, you don't  :-[ :-[ -, that the picture of your second image shows water vapour (steam), not 'pollution'.

John Smith wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 8:08pm:

are you pretending a windmill, and a coal burning electricity generator are even remotely similar in size? or use anywhere near the same amount of raw materials ?

You posted it. Own it. ;)

lee wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 8:07pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 8:04pm: Yes prices have gone up but the main materials needed like steel copper and cement are in abundance. We will run out of air before we run out of them. Now all you have to do is factor in the many thousand of wind turbines needing to be manufactured and mounted.

Its already been factored into it in places like Pt Augusta where they blew up the fossil fuel generators and replaced them with wind and solar. SA can hardly use all the power they produce most days.

Johnnie wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 8:52pm:

SA can hardly use all the power they produce most days.

6 1/2 days is not most days.

lee wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 9:29pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 8:52pm: SA can hardly use all the power they produce most days. 6 1/2 days is not most days.

Keep going Lee, and then take into account power being exported.

Johnnie wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 10:02pm:

Keep going Lee, and then take into account power being exported.

"South Australia’s Record-Breaking 156Hr Renewable Run"

https://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-news/south-australias-record-breaking-156hr-renewable-run/

lee wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 10:17pm:

Johnnie wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 10:02pm: Keep going Lee, and then take into account power being exported. "South Australia’s Record-Breaking 156Hr Renewable Run" https://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-news/south-australias-record-breaking-156hr-renewable-run/

That is good going!  A lot of the time when the wind is blowing and there is full sun in SA they don't even switch on all the solar farms, for some reason those on the east coast would rather shovel dirty coal into their generators than pay for green power.

Frank wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 8:36pm:

random wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 7:07pm: https://media2.giphy.com/media/3MbRNvfnMyUJeKGlsw/giphy.gif Wind turbines are such an eyesore. https://s3.amazonaws.com/ucs-images/soot+storymap/coal-smoke-lq.gif We need more of these! You do realise, Greta  - no, you don't  :-[ :-[ -, that the picture of your second image shows water vapour (steam), not 'pollution'.

Of course!  Coal fired power stations only release water vapour!

http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/frankliar_002.jpg

Johnnie wrote on Jun 1^st, 2022 at 4:55am:

That is good going!  A lot of the time when the wind is blowing and there is full sun in SA they don't even switch on all the solar farms, for some reason those on the east coast would rather shovel dirty coal into their generators than pay for green power.

You should look at grid instability with renewables. Plus the solar companies are paid to produce whether it is actually on line or not.

"The Renewable Energy Target is a subsidy. Building new wind and solar costs more than existing coal and gas generation. The RET enables solar and wind providers to sell renewable energy certificates to make up the difference between the electricity they sell and the costs of building new power stations. The cost of the certificates—the subsidy to renewables—is paid by electricity consumers through their power bills.

This cost totals approximately $2 billion per year."

https://reneweconomy.com.au/ret-market-distorting-subsidy-renewable-energy-63472/

freediver wrote on Apr 16^th, 2022 at 7:38am:

So they are selling at a lost, but will be unable to meet expected demand? Sounds like someone is trying to spin it both ways at the same time.

Can't afford to build.  can't meet demand

lee wrote on Jun 1^st, 2022 at 11:14am:

Johnnie wrote on Jun 1st, 2022 at 4:55am: That is good going!  A lot of the time when the wind is blowing and there is full sun in SA they don't even switch on all the solar farms, for some reason those on the east coast would rather shovel dirty coal into their generators than pay for green power. You should look at grid instability with renewables. Plus the solar companies are paid to produce whether it is actually on line or not. "The Renewable Energy Target is a subsidy. Building new wind and solar costs more than existing coal and gas generation. The RET enables solar and wind providers to sell renewable energy certificates to make up the difference between the electricity they sell and the costs of building new power stations. The cost of the certificates—the subsidy to renewables—is paid by electricity consumers through their power bills. This cost totals approximately $2 billion per year." https://reneweconomy.com.au/ret-market-distorting-subsidy-renewable-energy-63472/

Australia’s fossil-fuelled power stations are currently subsidised to the tune of $7- 20 billion a year.

Grid stability has always been something to deal with, not just since renewables, the big batteries are helping to deal with that these days, so they say, along with the old methods using electrical gadgets.

When SA was running on renewables it doesn't mean the gas fired generators were switched off, they provide stability and excess was exported. It still doesn't make sense to build solar and wind farms if they have them switched off, probably more to do with economics.

Johnnie wrote on Jun 1^st, 2022 at 1:23pm:

Australia’s fossil-fuelled power stations are currently subsidised to the tune of $7- 20 billion a year

Only if normal tax deductions are used as subsidies, as per IMF, World Bank.

Gillard and Rudd even argued that.
Johnnie wrote on Jun 1^st, 2022 at 1:23pm:

Grid stability has always been something to deal with, not just since renewables, the big batteries are helping to deal with that these days, so they say, along with the old methods using electrical gadgets.

Big batteries are only useful for smoothing. They can not handle full load. New methods are being developed but they are not in wide usage.


Johnnie wrote on Jun 1^st, 2022 at 1:23pm:

It still doesn't make sense to build solar and wind farms if they have them switched off, probably more to do with economics.

They get paid whether exported or not. The RET is the difference between sale price and build price. No sale full hit on RET.

". The RET enables solar and wind providers to sell renewable energy certificates to make up the difference between the electricity they sell and the costs of building new power stations"

Johnnie wrote on Jun 1^st, 2022 at 1:23pm:

When SA was running on renewables it doesn't mean the gas fired generators were switched off, they provide stability and excess was exported. It still doesn't make sense to build solar and wind farms if they have them switched off, probably more to do with economics.

Everything to do with economics; inadequate PRIVATE profit-driven market economics that is.

Which is why we need the public sector to fund the smart NATIONAL grid connecting rooftop solar AND wind and solar farms, to home batteries AND large scale pumped hydro storage

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 1^st, 2022 at 2:45pm:

Johnnie wrote on Jun 1st, 2022 at 1:23pm: When SA was running on renewables it doesn't mean the gas fired generators were switched off, they provide stability and excess was exported. It still doesn't make sense to build solar and wind farms if they have them switched off, probably more to do with economics. Everything to do with economics; inadequate PRIVATE profit-driven market economics that is. Which is why we need the public sector to fund the smart NATIONAL grid connecting rooftop solar AND wind and solar farms, to home batteries AND large scale pumped hydro storage

How would many Lithium home batteries and pumped hydro storage compare to putting up more wind turbines, a 10MW wind farm can be built in 2 months. I would accept a free home
battery but paying $7,000 and lasting only 10yrs, maybe, is not something i would install. 

Johnnie wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2022 at 4:06pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 1st, 2022 at 2:45pm: Johnnie wrote on Jun 1st, 2022 at 1:23pm: When SA was running on renewables it doesn't mean the gas fired generators were switched off, they provide stability and excess was exported. It still doesn't make sense to build solar and wind farms if they have them switched off, probably more to do with economics. Everything to do with economics; inadequate PRIVATE profit-driven market economics that is. Which is why we need the public sector to fund the smart NATIONAL grid connecting rooftop solar AND wind and solar farms, to home batteries AND large scale pumped hydro storage How would many Lithium home batteries and pumped hydro storage compare to putting up more wind turbines, a 10MW wind farm can be built in 2 months. I would accept a free home battery but paying $7,000 and lasting only 10yrs, maybe, is not something i would install.

If we are talking OZ powered by near 100% renewables ASAP, we need the vast (available)  capacity of rooftop solar,  as well as wind and solar farms.

The government can subsidize a battery industry in Oz, given we have the resources, and can also subsidize replacement costs (see MMT; if the resources are  available for purchase by the currency-issuing government , then the government can buy them with money created 'out of nothing'....which is how all money is created, a privilege reserved for private money lenders in the current dysfunctional monetary orthodoxy.  Note: the government is not increasing the money supply which would risk creating inflation,  the government is merely by-passing the market, in order to turn eg, lithium into batteries).

The barrier is dysfunctional profit-driven market economics, when it comes to provision of an essential service. 

The energy sector must be nationalized....just as Playford did in SA;  but now the situation is a transition to free sunshine and wind, as opposed to transition to cheap Leigh Creek brown coal in SA.

" In 1946, Playford created the Electricity Trust of South Australia (ETSA). He had nationalised the Adelaide Electric Supply Company, which as a private company, held a monopoly over electricity supplies in Adelaide and had refused to use the State's brown coal supply.


...because the private company wanted to maintain the fatter profits available from using more expensive black coal. Profits over people, as usual.

The ALP was delighted; they called Playford (a Liberal) the "best socialist premier" they ever had....

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 5^th, 2022 at 1:34pm:

Johnnie wrote on Jun 2nd, 2022 at 4:06pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 1st, 2022 at 2:45pm: Johnnie wrote on Jun 1st, 2022 at 1:23pm: When SA was running on renewables it doesn't mean the gas fired generators were switched off, they provide stability and excess was exported. It still doesn't make sense to build solar and wind farms if they have them switched off, probably more to do with economics. Everything to do with economics; inadequate PRIVATE profit-driven market economics that is. Which is why we need the public sector to fund the smart NATIONAL grid connecting rooftop solar AND wind and solar farms, to home batteries AND large scale pumped hydro storage How would many Lithium home batteries and pumped hydro storage compare to putting up more wind turbines, a 10MW wind farm can be built in 2 months. I would accept a free home battery but paying $7,000 and lasting only 10yrs, maybe, is not something i would install.  If we are talking OZ powered by near 100% renewables ASAP, we need the vast (available)  capacity of rooftop solar,  as well as wind and solar farms. The government can subsidize a battery industry in Oz, given we have the resources, and can also subsidize replacement costs (see MMT; if the resources are  available for purchase by the currency-issuing government , then the government can buy them with money created 'out of nothing'....which is how all money is created, a privilege reserved for private money lenders in the current dysfunctional monetary orthodoxy.  Note: the government is not increasing the money supply which would risk creating inflation,  the government is merely by-passing the market, in order to turn eg, lithium into batteries). The barrier is dysfunctional profit-driven market economics, when it comes to provision of an essential service.  The energy sector must be nationalized....just as Playford did in SA;  but now the situation is a transition to free sunshine and wind, as opposed to transition to cheap Leigh Creek brown coal in SA. " In 1946, Playford created the Electricity Trust of South Australia (ETSA). He had nationalised the Adelaide Electric Supply Company, which as a private company, held a monopoly over electricity supplies in Adelaide and had refused to use the State's brown coal supply. ...because the private company wanted to maintain the fatter profits available from using more expensive black coal. Profits over people, as usual. The ALP was delighted; they called Playford (a Liberal) the "best socialist premier" they ever had....

I think they stopped using the coal from Leigh Creek in 2016 and then blew up the generators.

I reckon the home batteries are BS, along with the big batteries. The home batteries are a big outlay, nobody knows how long they will last, you need a big roof top sola to make them viable and not much good if running a big A/C etc.

You are never going to run industry on batteries, thousands would be needed to just to run a shopping centre and acres of solar panels.

Not sure what the big batteries are doing apart from providing a bit of stability which can be done by other means. All the big batteries we have wouldn't run a city for half a second, they would blow up before then anyway.

Apart from going nuclear we should run on gas, we have plenty and build more wind farms. SA has been running on 63% renewables for a few years now so not much gas is being used there.

Johnnie wrote on Jun 5^th, 2022 at 5:54pm:

I think they stopped using the coal from Leigh Creek in 2016 and then blew up the generators.

Due to the erroneous neoliberal  privatization dogma which was established in the 80's (Thatcher/Reagan/ Hawke years), overthrowing the successful post war  Keynesnian 'welfare state' public ownership policy. (because economists misunderstood the stagflation in the 70's caused by M.E oil embargo, and competition from Asia resulting in loss of 1st world industrial manufacturing). 

"The Electricity Trust of South Australia (ETSA) was the South Australian Government-owned monopoly vertically integrated electricity provider from 1946 until its privatisation in 1999".


Quote:

I reckon the home batteries are BS, along with the big batteries. The home batteries are a big outlay, nobody knows how long they will last, you need a big roof top sola to make them viable and not much good if running a big A/C etc.

Depends on individual roof areas, available sun etc:

"Can I run my air conditioner on battery power?
The short answer is yes. With the proper equipment and enough batteries, you can run your RV AC unit on batteries. In addition to the lithium batteries, you'll need an inverter to invert the DC battery power into AC power for most air conditioning units.16 Aug 2021"



Quote:

You are never going to run industry on batteries, thousands would be needed to just to run a shopping centre and acres of solar panels.

Re large grid-scale vanadium batteries, powered by long-distance inter-connectors from solar and wind farms:

"Are vanadium flow batteries the future?
"The emerging need for large-scale electricity storage makes vanadium redox flow batteries a major potential future use of vanadium," USGS wrote. "Because of their large-scale storage capacity, development of VRBs could prompt increases in the use of wind, solar, and other renewable, intermittent power sources."15 May 2022



Quote:

Not sure what the big batteries are doing apart from providing a bit of stability which can be done by other means. All the big batteries we have wouldn't run a city for half a second, they would blow up before then anyway.

Addressed above, we don't have grid scale vanadium batteries at present. And add on a few Snowy 2's for storage; should just about get us through the night and  at times when the wind isn't blowing.


Quote:

Apart from going nuclear we should run on gas, we have plenty and build more wind farms. SA has been running on 63% renewables for a few years now so not much gas is being used there.

Yes, except even Oz gas - which we have plenty of - is owned by profit-gouging private companies who prefer to export overseas....as we are now experiencing...

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 4:40pm:

"The emerging need for large-scale electricity storage makes vanadium redox flow batteries a major potential future use of vanadium," USGS wrote.

As long as the potential is realised. ;)
Vanadium price is about $US 832/LB.

Edit: "An example for the potential use of vanadium redox flow batteries is the Rongke Power Development in Dalian, China, which utilises an 800 MWh battery containing almost 7000 tonnes of vanadium pentoxide. "

https://www.engenium.com.au/knowledge/insight/161-vanadium-redox-flow-batteries.html

lee wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 4:58pm:

As long as the potential is realised. ;) Vanadium price is about $US 832/LB. Edit: "An example for the potential use of vanadium redox flow batteries is the Rongke Power Development in Dalian, China, which utilises an 800 MWh battery containing almost 7000 tonnes of vanadium pentoxide. " https://www.engenium.com.au/knowledge/insight/161-vanadium-redox-flow-batteries.html

7000 tons for one near-1 GWh battery...costing c.$14 billion? (couldn't see that figure in the article, only that "vanadium batteries are competitive with lithium batteries").

An updated price is between is between USD 10,000 and 25,000 per ton.

https://www.made-in-china.com/products-search/hot-china-products/Ferro_Vanadium_Price.html

The price varies as purity varies.

lee wrote on Jun 7^th, 2022 at 3:19pm:

An updated price is between is between USD 10,000 and 25,000 per ton. https://www.made-in-china.com/products-search/hot-china-products/Ferro_Vanadium_Price.html The price varies as purity varies.

Ah, $10, 000 per ton, not $1000 per lb....(= $2 million per ton, round figures.

So...$70 million for a 1 GWH battery. Not bad actually.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 8^th, 2022 at 1:17pm:

Ah, $10, 000 per ton, not $1000 per lb....(= $2 million per ton, round figures.

And nowhere did I say $1,000 per lb. But I did miss a decimal point. I depends on quantity as well. By by the ton or the lb.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 4:40pm:

Johnnie wrote on Jun 5th, 2022 at 5:54pm: I think they stopped using the coal from Leigh Creek in 2016 and then blew up the generators. Due to the erroneous neoliberal  privatization dogma which was established in the 80's (Thatcher/Reagan/ Hawke years), overthrowing the successful post war  Keynesnian 'welfare state' public ownership policy. (because economists misunderstood the stagflation in the 70's caused by M.E oil embargo, and competition from Asia resulting in loss of 1st world industrial manufacturing).  "The Electricity Trust of South Australia (ETSA) was the South Australian Government-owned monopoly vertically integrated electricity provider from 1946 until its privatisation in 1999". Quote: I reckon the home batteries are BS, along with the big batteries. The home batteries are a big outlay, nobody knows how long they will last, you need a big roof top sola to make them viable and not much good if running a big A/C etc. Depends on individual roof areas, available sun etc: "Can I run my air conditioner on battery power? The short answer is yes. With the proper equipment and enough batteries, you can run your RV AC unit on batteries. In addition to the lithium batteries, you'll need an inverter to invert the DC battery power into AC power for most air conditioning units.16 Aug 2021" [quote]You are never going to run industry on batteries, thousands would be needed to just to run a shopping centre and acres of solar panels.

Re large grid-scale vanadium batteries, powered by long-distance inter-connectors from solar and wind farms:

"Are vanadium flow batteries the future?
"The emerging need for large-scale electricity storage makes vanadium redox flow batteries a major potential future use of vanadium," USGS wrote. "Because of their large-scale storage capacity, development of VRBs could prompt increases in the use of wind, solar, and other renewable, intermittent power sources."15 May 2022



Quote:

Not sure what the big batteries are doing apart from providing a bit of stability which can be done by other means. All the big batteries we have wouldn't run a city for half a second, they would blow up before then anyway.

Addressed above, we don't have grid scale vanadium batteries at present. And add on a few Snowy 2's for storage; should just about get us through the night and  at times when the wind isn't blowing.


Quote:

Apart from going nuclear we should run on gas, we have plenty and build more wind farms. SA has been running on 63% renewables for a few years now so not much gas is being used there.

Yes, except even Oz gas - which we have plenty of - is owned by profit-gouging private companies who prefer to export overseas....as we are now experiencing...
[/quote]
The brown coal from Leigh Creek did a good job, a dirty job but a good job. Too bad we have so much good black coal around but its going to have to stay in the ground for the good of the planet. We should have gone nuclear 30 plus years ago.

Batteries can't even run a good size home reverse cycle A/C for more than a couple of hours. These vanadium batteries you speak of might be good but no battery is going to run industry, or even a small city without industry, or even a big town. Millions of batteries might do it.

---

https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/108/388/623/original/d7e17f63437924a5.jpg

World is now shutting down coal plants faster than it's opening them

Faced with the decision of whether to shut down coal plants or renewables, power companies have shut down coal plants.

"Coal absolutely loses the battle," Mr Buckley said.

"I think COVID is really creating a pause which allows a strategic rethink by power companies and governments."

Last month, Japan announced it was closing 100 of its 140 coal power plants by 2030.

Japan takes 45 per cent of Australia's thermal coal exports.

Mr Buckley said the closure of coal plants around the world would "categorically" affect demand for Australian coal, though it may be too late for this to stall the proposed Adani coal mine in Queensland's Galilee Basin.

"Adani's sunk cost may have gone past the point of no return," he said.

https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/world-global-coal-power-capacity-has-fell-in-2020/12523904

Bobby. wrote on Jun 8^th, 2022 at 9:42pm:

https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/108/388/623/original/d7e17f63437924a5.jpg

We always have to lead the way and do more or the greenies and do-gooders will supa glue themselves to the road.

Johnnie wrote on Jun 8^th, 2022 at 10:10pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jun 8th, 2022 at 9:42pm: https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/108/388/623/original/d7e17f63437924a5.jpg We always have to lead the way and do more or the greenies and do-gooders will supa glue themselves to the road.

Great meme.


https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/108/388/623/original/d7e17f63437924a5.jpg

TOO much wind - no power.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-13/thousands-still-without-power-in-tasmania-north-west-after-wind/101147584

Note: Australia has over 20 coal power plants in operation with about 7 commissioned after 2020 and projected to be still operating after 2050.


If this tables info on Australia is all BS it is probable that the rest of the numbers are at a similar standard.


https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/108/388/623/original/d7e17f63437924a5.jpg

Dnarever wrote on Jun 13^th, 2022 at 12:24pm:

Note: Australia has over 20 coal power plants in operation with about 7 commissioned after 2020 and projected to be still operating after 2050.

According to wiki NONE after 2009. So please quote your source. ;)

Dnarever wrote on Jun 13^th, 2022 at 12:24pm:

Note: Australia has over 20 coal power plants in operation with about 7 commissioned after 2020 and projected to be still operating after 2050.

Not so.  Only 19 operating.  None were commissioned after 2020 (latest 2009). 
Only one operating after 2050 (Millmerra).

List of coal-fired power stations in Australia.

Frank wrote on Jun 13^th, 2022 at 12:15pm:

TOO much wind - no power. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-13/thousands-still-without-power-in-tasmania-north-west-after-wind/101147584

Due to fallen transmission lines...

AusGeoff wrote on Jun 14^th, 2022 at 12:54am:

Dnarever wrote on Jun 13th, 2022 at 12:24pm: Note: Australia has over 20 coal power plants in operation with about 7 commissioned after 2020 and projected to be still operating after 2050. Not so.  Only 19 operating.  None were commissioned after 2020 (latest 2009).  Only one operating after 2050 (Millmerra). List of coal-fired power stations in Australia.

er... nitpicking stats?

Fact is we should have been rolling out solar/wind. transmission and storage ASAP, in the last decade.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 15^th, 2022 at 4:13pm:

er... nitpicking stats?

Straight out lying - just like you. ;)

lee wrote on Jun 15^th, 2022 at 4:32pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 15th, 2022 at 4:13pm: er... nitpicking stats? Straight out lying - just like you. ;)

One bloke said Oz has 20 coal plants, the other 19...and a number  (or 1) of those plants  will still be operating in 2050. 

Fact is we should have been rolling out solar/wind, transmission and storage ASAP, in the last decade.

Have another go at accusing me of 'lying'. 

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 15^th, 2022 at 5:07pm:

One bloke said Oz has 20 coal plants, the other 19...and a number  (or 1) of those plants  will still be operating in 2050.

And one says NONE were commissioned after 2009.

The other says 7 commissioned after 2020.

So the one who said 7 after 2020 was straight out lying.


thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 15^th, 2022 at 5:07pm:

Have another go at accusing me of 'lying'.

You mean like my supposed use of "nincompook"? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

lee wrote on Jun 15^th, 2022 at 5:16pm:

And one says NONE were commissioned after 2009. The other says 7 commissioned after 2020. So the one who said 7 after 2020 was straight out lying.

The point is we must maximize the rollout of solar/wind, transmission and storage, to ensure a managed closure of coal plants ASAP, and certainly exit coal way before 2050,with gas acting as as the go-between.

We will probably have to nationalize coal in the Eastern States, since the private owners of Oz gas have and are  screwing us totally. 


Quote:

You mean like my supposed use of "nincompook"? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You are a confused monkey; I misspelled it, I didn't accuse you of lying when you first used the term.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 16^th, 2022 at 5:46pm:

The point is we must maximize the rollout of solar/wind, transmission and storage, to ensure a managed closure of coal plants ASAP, and certainly exit coal way before 2050,with gas acting as as the go-between.

So once again you didn't understand what was said. Just called it "nitpicking stats" ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

But dream on. ;)


thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 16^th, 2022 at 5:46pm:

We will probably have to nationalize coal in the Eastern States, since the private owners of Oz gas have and are  screwing us totally.

So you want to nationalise coal because it is cheaper and give gas a free pass because it is more expensive. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 16^th, 2022 at 5:46pm:

You are a confused monkey; I misspelled it, I didn't accuse you of lying when you first used the term.

You had the word in quotation marks and now you are saying you mispelled it. Don't you check your spelling. ;)

lee wrote on Jun 16^th, 2022 at 6:20pm:

But dream on. ;)

No one's dreaming except the deniers.

43% reduction by  2030, only 8 years away. with only c. 50 deniers in the Oz parliament. 


Quote:

So you want to nationalise coal because it is cheaper and give gas a free pass because it is more expensive. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

No I accept the global demand to exit coal, and that  nationalization of coal will probably be required, as the fossil price -gougers 'dig in' ( excuse the pun).

As for a 'free pass' for gas:  today the government suspended the free market in gas, to ensure supply ....we will likely have to nationalize the private gas-price-gougers as well....

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 16^th, 2022 at 6:41pm:

43% reduction by  2030, only 8 years away. with only c. 50 deniers in the Oz parliament.

Keep dreamin' ;)


thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 16^th, 2022 at 6:41pm:

No I accept the global demand to exit coal, and that  nationalization of coal will probably be required, as the fossil price -gougers 'dig in'

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 16^th, 2022 at 6:41pm:

As for a 'free pass' for gas:  today the government suspended the free market in gas, to ensure supply ....we will likely have to nationalize the private gas-price-gougers as well....

So now we will see how well that works. Or not.

lee wrote on Jun 16^th, 2022 at 7:53pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 16th, 2022 at 6:41pm: 43% reduction by  2030, only 8 years away. with only c. 50 deniers in the Oz parliament.  Keep dreamin' ;)

The UN welcomed Albo's commitment today. If anyone can achieve a 43% reduction in CO2 emissions by 2030, Oz can.
(...vast sunny deserts and vast windy coastline, for a mere 25 million people). 


Quote:

So we will see how that works out, or not

I expect everyone around the globe will wake up, in the years ahead,  that public financing, not private,  will be necessary to complete the transition in a timely manner.

Meanwhile in Oz, hopefully the Greens will allow as much gas usage as is required, while we  transition  to green,  ASAP.
I think they will want to avoid the mistakes of a decade ago; and there should be no reason why we need to develop  NEW gas fields....

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 17^th, 2022 at 6:49pm:

The UN welcomed Albo's commitment today. If anyone can achieve a 43% reduction in CO2 emissions by 2030, Oz can. (...vast sunny deserts and vast windy coastline, for a mere 25 million people).

Of course they did. They are part of the problem. ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 17^th, 2022 at 6:49pm:

I expect everyone around the globe will wake up, in the years ahead,  that public financing, not private,  will be necessary to complete the transition in a timely manner.

Great Expectations. ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 17^th, 2022 at 6:49pm:

Meanwhile in Oz, hopefully the Greens will allow as much gas usage as is required, while we  transition  to green,  ASAP.

By  2035.  ;)


thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 17^th, 2022 at 6:49pm:

I think they will want to avoid the mistakes of a decade ago; and there should be no reason why we need to develop  NEW gas fields....

Except when your Green New Deal doesn't work. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You have shown no science, no engineering or any other ability. ;)

lee wrote on Jun 17^th, 2022 at 7:04pm:

Of course they did. They are part of the problem. ;D ;D ;D ;D

only to your hardy band of AGW deniers.


Quote:

Great Expectations. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Certainly funding by the BIS will blow away the private fossil price gougers.


Quote:

By  2035.  ;)

The Pilbara can be exporting green electricity to Singapore well before then.


thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 17^th, 2022 at 6:49pm:

I think they will want to avoid the mistakes of a decade ago; and there should be no reason why we need to develop  NEW gas fields....

Quote:

Except when your Green New Deal doesn't work. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

It will work, as Tim Buckley said today :the cheapest fastest NW energy in Oz is rooftop and grid upgrade.


Quote:

You have shown no science, no engineering or any other ability. ;)

Buckley would make a fool of you in 2 minutes flat.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 18^th, 2022 at 11:00pm:

It will work, as Tim Buckley said today :the cheapest fastest NW energy in Oz is rooftop and grid upgrade.

Tim Buckley apparently knows finance. Also apparently he knows nothing of rooftop solar. Solar changes by the minute. It is not and cannot provide reliable energy.


thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 18^th, 2022 at 11:00pm:

Buckley would make a fool of you in 2 minutes flat.

Buckley, like you, knows nothing of engineering. He has Buckley's Chance or none. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Buckley loves renewables. He gets people to invest in them. Subsidy mining at its finest.

lee wrote on Jun 19^th, 2022 at 12:23pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 18th, 2022 at 11:00pm: It will work, as Tim Buckley said today :the cheapest fastest NEW energy in Oz is rooftop and grid upgrade. Tim Buckley apparently knows finance. Also apparently he knows nothing of rooftop solar. Solar changes by the minute. It is not and cannot provide reliable energy.

Oz has sufficient gas to firm a fast roll-out of interconnected roof-top solar, while longer term pumped- hydro storage is developed.

Definitely the cheapest way to reach net zero.... by whenever.... depending on resistance by filthy fossil price gougers.


Quote:

Buckley, like you, knows nothing of engineering. He has Buckley's Chance or none. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Just plain common sense:

(google)

"potential rooftop solar capacity in Australia"

179 gigawatts

Australia's estimated total potential for rooftop solar is 179 gigawatts with an annual energy output of 245 terawatt-hours – exceeding current electricity consumption on the main grids in Australia.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 20^th, 2022 at 1:07pm:

Oz has sufficient gas to firm a fast roll-out of interconnected roof-top solar, while longer term pumped- hydro storage is developed.

Ah yes the pumped hydro that loses so much in pushing water up hill. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 20^th, 2022 at 1:07pm:

"potential rooftop solar capacity in Australia" 179 gigawatts Australia's estimated total potential for rooftop solar is 179 gigawatts with an annual energy output of 245 terawatt-hours – exceeding current electricity consumption on the main grids in Australia.

Edit: The study used 62.5% nameplate capacity not generated capacity. Capacity factor is about 30%. ;)

And the sun doesn't shine all the time. Even during the day. And batteries won't cut it, As has been explaoinde4d to you many times. ::)

As I said Neither Buckley nor you know even basic engineering., ::)

Where is the scope in WA for pumped hydro? it is largely flat. ;)

lee wrote on Jun 20^th, 2022 at 2:25pm:

Ah yes the pumped hydro that loses so much in pushing water up hill. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Covered before; powered by EXCESS renewable energy.



Quote:

As I said Neither Buckley nor you know even basic engineering., ::) Where is the scope in WA for pumped hydro? it is largely flat. ;)

The GDR (inc. Snowy 2 ) and Tasmania ..the "battery of the nation"....interconnected.

Even exporting electricity to Singapore, from the Pilbara. 

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 20^th, 2022 at 4:06pm:

Covered before; powered by EXCESS renewable energy.

The excess? First you have to have enough. ::)


thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 20^th, 2022 at 4:06pm:

The GDR (inc. Snowy 2 ) and Tasmania ..the "battery of the nation"....interconnected.

You mean the  "battery of the nation" that they had to stop sending to Victoria because there wasn't enough water? ;D ;D ;D ;D


thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 20^th, 2022 at 4:06pm:

Even exporting electricity to Singapore, from the Pilbara.

Another green pipedream.

But why didn't you tell us more on this you beaut rooftop solar.  ::)

In case you think I am a numpty like you -Excerpt from the study referenced -

"A PV intensity of 156.25 W/m2 (based on generic 250 W modules sized 1.6 m x 1.0 m) was applied to the usable areas to determine PV capacity for each zone and postal area (POA)."


https://apvi.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/isf-rooftop-solar-potential-report-final_.pdf

Edit: That was wrong Sri. A 250w module at 1.6m² that would make 1M² 250/1.6 = 156.25. So they are using 100% capacity factor. a 30% capacity factor would be 46.875w/m²



lee wrote on Jun 20^th, 2022 at 2:25pm:

Edit: The study used 62.5% nameplate capacity not generated capacity. Capacity factor is about 30%

You don't do detail well do you? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Worldwide, there could be more than 40 million tonnes of blade waste in landfills by 2050.

Wind turbines have life span of 10 to 20 years and are expensive to break down due to their size and the fact they are made from a mixture of composite materials including glass fibre, carbon fibre, polyester and epoxy resins.

Professor Majewski said the turbines could be recycled but it was yet to become a lucrative business.

"The key problem is there is not a lot of money in it, so recyclers don't have a huge income stream," he said.

"We need the government to provide incentives for energy companies."

https://amp.abc.net.au/article/101168442

Government = you, the taxpayer and energy user.


The Greens and their wind turbines, foreseen 500 years ago

https://fanous.files.wordpress.com/2018/10/gettyimages-664675531-612x612.jpg

Frank wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2022 at 5:03pm:

Professor Majewski said the turbines could be recycled but it was yet to become a lucrative business. "The key problem is there is not a lot of money in it, so recyclers don't have a huge income stream," he said.

Just goes to show there is no future for energy, in markets. Good, old-fashioned nationalization is the way forward.


Quote:

"We need the government to provide incentives for energy companies." https://amp.abc.net.au/article/101168442 Government = you, the taxpayer and energy user.

Correct; hence the need to free the taxpayer from the clutches of the greedy private financiers who still claim the sole right to create money - with interest. 

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1645944963/195#198

(See #196 for the description of money creation).


Quote:

The Greens and their wind turbines, foreseen 500 years ago https://fanous.files.wordpress.com/2018/10/gettyimages-664675531-612x612.jpg

By Leonardo da Vinci? He was certainly a man of vision....

Quote:

In signing off from Siemens Gamesa after three years that might diplomatically be described as ‘eventful’, I wrote to colleagues that: “I suspect it will get worse before it gets better, but it will get better”. One of the first responses I received was very instructive: “When I joined more than 15 years ago, I was told that I was joining the sector with the brightest and most promising future. The problem is that it is a future that seems never to come.” It is fair to say that that sums up much of the prevailing mood in the wind turbine OEM sector right now with all the major western OEMs struggling to turn a profit. It is not unusual to hear senior industry figures raising the spectre of the fate of the European solar manufacturing industry, long ago lost to the east. And here is the paradox of the wind energy industry in 2022: if net zero and other decarbonization targets are to be met, the industry should be on the cusp of a growth phase that would dwarf anything experienced so far. The question is whether the western manufacturing sector will be in any sort of shape to deliver that growth, or it will endure the fate of the long lost solar industry, a spectre now regularly raised by industry leaders. Logic dictates that this is the moment to press down hard on the accelerator, designing the technology and building out the capacity required to quadruple installations between now and 2030. Instead the news is full of stories of lay-offs, factory closures and eye-watering financial losses. And the resources required for the necessary investments are in jeopardy. Post-covid malaise The issues are well known. The industry’s relief at surviving Covid relatively unscathed and its optimism about a green recovery are long gone, replaced by a supply chain crisis and a damaging imbalance between supply and demand of projects. The resulting competition is fierce and not conducive to healthy margins. And all this at a time when the case for wind is more compelling than it has ever been.

https://www.windpowermonthly.com/article/1791224/opinion-distribution-value-wind-industry-broken-%E2%80%93-its-time-new-settlement

Renewables?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-28/sa-agl-wind-farms-tesla-battery-fined-over-breaches/101190674?fbclid=IwAR1551jFLlv3IP0-3igvDJCJuRX3BSbnIc0m9A4h_Vd-9USpUXZgzv7mpCI  ::)