Someone's thinking like me.https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/no-russia-will-not-invade-ukraine/ar-AATDLfg?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

Jasin wrote on Feb 9^th, 2022 at 9:14pm:

Someone's thinking like me.https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/no-russia-will-not-invade-ukraine/ar-AATDLfg?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

Beside Valkie?

Two-thirds of Americans cannot find Ukraine on a map, according to a new survey, as the US prepares for a confrontation with Russia over the future of the former Soviet nation and urges Americans to leave as soon as possible.

In the same survey of over 2,000 Americans published on Wednesday EST, more than a quarter of respondents could not identify the US’s old cold war adversary, Russia, the world’s largest nation by land mass.

“Many US voters are getting a brush-up on Eastern European geography as Russian troops surround Ukraine on three sides and the Kremlin demands Western security concessions in exchange for backing down,” said Matthew Kendrick, an analyst at Morning Consult, the polling company.

“God created war so Americans would learn geography,” he added, referring to an apocryphal quip by American author Mark Twain.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/world/most-americans-cant-place-ukraine-on-map-survey/news-story/2cc3fca85cb0d59fb15c47bd59ae5b98


I wonder what proportion of Australians could point out Ukraine or Russia on the map.

Just watching the final episode of Band of Brothers DVD.  Always struck by the sheer waste of war despite the good men in it.

Every time some little jackass of a petty and small-minded tyrant wants to beat his chest, people die.

Putin is just the next one, he and Xi.

Why not just trade and make profit with Ukraine, dick-head?

Frank wrote on Feb 11^th, 2022 at 7:29am:

I wonder what proportion of Australians could point out Ukraine or Russia on the map.

That proportion will be higher than America ...

Laugh till you cry wrote on Feb 9^th, 2022 at 10:14pm:

Jasin wrote on Feb 9th, 2022 at 9:14pm: Someone's thinking like me.https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/no-russia-will-not-invade-ukraine/ar-AATDLfg?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531 Beside Valkie?

Valkie/Mechanic doesn't think really ... unless amoebas "think" ...

Let's see what the next few weeks bring.

Are the Russians / Putin:

(A) Posturing for better terms from NATO
(B) Intending to make minor incursions in Ukraine to up the ante against NATO
(C) Intending to invade and annex a part of Ukraine to be a buffer against NATO states
(D) Intending to invade and occupy/annex Ukraine as a warning against any other nation joining NATO

Date of Russian ‘invasion’ announced by Bloomberg

US officials have predicted an imminent Russian invasion of Ukraine, but Bloomberg claims to know the precise date

“Any action could start as soon as Tuesday,” Bloomberg reported on Friday afternoon, citing “officials familiar with the matter.” The news site noted that “action” could range from “causing a provocation in the Donbas region” to an assault on the Ukrainian capital of Kiev.

https://www.rt.com/russia/549115-russia-invade-ukraine-bloomberg/

Russian Ambassador on the conflict with the West
"We don't give a sh!t about all your sanctions"
One of the West's leverages in the confrontation with Russia is severe sanctions against Moscow in the event of an attack on Ukraine. This does not impress the Russian ambassador in Sweden.
02/13/2022, 1:51 p.m

In an interview with the Aftonbladet newspaper published late on Saturday evening, ambassador Viktor Tatarintsev said: "Excuse my language, but we don't give a sh!t about all your sanctions."

https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/russischer-botschafter-zum-konflikt-mit-dem-westen-wir-scheissen-auf-ihre-ganzen-sanktionen-a-4de26456-c10e-4bbb-87f9-ad8bc62b440e



Does Vladimir Putin intend to invade Ukraine? Or are his troop manoeuvres just a game — another test of the West’s resolve? If the former, he will win: British troops (and citizens) have been told to leave Ukraine in the event of conflict and no one doubts that the estimated 130,000 Russian forces could succeed in their objective. So the first major land war in Europe since World War II would end in an easy victory for Russia.  “My guess is he will move in,” Joe Biden said last week, as if he were a casual observer. Families of US diplomats in Ukraine have been ordered to leave the country

But even if it's a bluff, Putin can count the past few weeks a success. He has established that no western country has any desire to respond to a blatant threat to a sovereign state with military action. He also has succeeded in showing the West cannot even agree on a course of threatened sanctions if he did move. Never has Nato looked so frayed - or western governments been so divided over the issue of a military threat from the East.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-putin-wins



Any wonder?  The US Military's recruitment video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIYGFSONKbk
A little girl raised by two moms....


Compare and contrast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEnxmzqXJN8

It's all on - only 3 days to go.


https://sputniknews.com/20220214/us-getting-ready-to-withdraw-all-of-its-personnel-from-kiev-within-24-48-hours---reports-1093004260.html


US Getting Ready to Withdraw All of Its Personnel
From Kiev Within 24-48 Hours - Reports


4 hours ago

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/11/investing/dow-stock-market-today-russia-ukraine/index.html


"Stock traders quickly hit the 'sell button'

after reports that the US expects Russia to move forward with invading Ukraine," said Edward Moya, senior market analyst with OANDA, in a report Friday. "A period of calm was somewhat expected regarding the Ukraine situation but that does not seem to be the case anymore."
In its warning that Americans should leave Ukraine, the White House also indicated that Russia could launch air strikes before the Winter Olympics in Beijing end later this month.

Putin's Waited 30 Years to Sort Out Ukraine
BY DAVID P. GOLDMAN JAN 25, 2022 8:52 AM ET
   

“Ukraine’s induction into the Western alliance system would mean that the US missiles could hit Moscow in 5 minutes, rendering Russian air defence systems ineffectual and obsolete,” writes former top Indian diplomat M.K. Bhadrakumar in his blog. Since 1991, when the U.S. and Germany assured Gorbachev that NATO would NOT expand eastward if Russia agreed to German unification, Russia has believed that the West betrayed a solemn commitment by pushing NATO towards Russia’s border (this is disputed by most U.S. sources).

Russia thinks in terms of firepower and facts on the ground. Putin has spent the past dozen years turning Russia’s armed forces into a well-armed, efficient instrument (it took less than 24 hours to put Russia’s 6th Airborne into Kazakhstan and just three days to kill everyone who didn’t like it). He’s lurked in the tall grass waiting for an opportunity to settle accounts.

Why now? Because he can. U.S. sanctions mean less than they did in the past because China wants as much overland energy supply as it can get (in a scrap, the U.S. Navy could interdict tanker supply from the Persian Gulf). China and Russia are joined at the hip in high-tech (Huawei has a huge presence there). The specter of a Russian-Chinese alliance spooks the West, with good reason.

The Europeans don’t want a fight with Russia. When Germany’s equivalent of the secretary of the Navy, Admiral Schoenbach, said last week that Putin “deserves respect,” he was forced to resign, but he spoke for the overwhelming majority of Germans.

NATO is weak, China is ascendant, and the U.S. is confused; Russia is well-armed and prepared. That’s why Putin is making his move now.

The liberal internationalists in the Biden administration want to continue the Clintonian folly of expanding NATO to include countries that we can’t defend. Three years ago Prof. Walter McDougall of the University of Pennsylvania excoriated this exercise. Why do we do this? To defend the brave little democracy in Ukraine against totalitarian oppression? Puh-leeze. The Kiev kleptocracy is an embarrassment to itself as well as everyone else. Since the Soviet Union fell, the White Whale of the liberal internationalists (like Antony Blinken) and neocons (like Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland) has been to export democracy to Russia. The regime-change fantasy has dominated U.S. policy since we sponsored the 2004 “Orange Revolution” in Ukraine, through the 2014 Maidan Square coup.
https://pjmedia.com/spengler/2022/01/25/putins-waited-30-years-to-sort-out-ukraine-n1552603

Good post Frank.

Is this WW3 - is it the final battle of the End Times?

Bobby. wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 3:09pm:

Good post Frank. Is this WW3 - is it the final battle of the End Times?

Not to save Ukraine from Russia. France, Germany, the US and GB don't honestly care.

Expanding NATO across Eastern Europe was a mistake. They should have made them all militarily neutral, like Switzerland, Austria, Sweden and Finland.

Expansion of NATO:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/History_of_NATO_enlargement.svg/1280px-History_of_NATO_enlargement.svg.png

Frank wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 4:35pm:

Expanding NATO across Eastern Europe was a mistake. They should have made them all militarily neutral, like Switzerland, Austria, Sweden and Finland. Expansion of NATO:

Had they not joined NATO, most of those ex-Warsaw Pact countries would be back under Russian influence.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 5:13pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 4:35pm: Expanding NATO across Eastern Europe was a mistake. They should have made them all militarily neutral, like Switzerland, Austria, Sweden and Finland. Expansion of NATO: Had they not joined NATO, most of those ex-Warsaw Pact countries would be back under Russian influence.

What? Like Germany? Your assumption is nonsense. Try thinking for a change, rather than always have the reaction of a 12 year old. All the ex Warsaw Pact/CommEcon countries are in the EU. Trading with Russia but being no military staging grounds would be enough for them and for Russia. Like Germany (under whose influence they really are), they are happy to be a bridge between Russia and Western Europe/North America - which is what they geopolitically are.



A buffer zone between NATO and Russia would have been the sensible way. The Ukraine is threatened only because NATO is on its western borders AND it is in active negotiations about joining it. This is obviously intolerable for Russia (unless Russia also joined NATO, which is unthinkable and would be absolutely intolerable for China and N Korea, both nuclear armed.

In any case, Sweden has two NATO neighbours, South and West but doesn't come under Russian influence. Ditto with Finland.  Austria and Switzerland were always between Nato and the WP and never came under Russian influence. Russia wants its sphere of influence/buffer zone. To dismiss that out of hand is not diplomatic.

Frank wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 5:34pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 5:13pm: Frank wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 4:35pm: Expanding NATO across Eastern Europe was a mistake. They should have made them all militarily neutral, like Switzerland, Austria, Sweden and Finland. Expansion of NATO: Had they not joined NATO, most of those ex-Warsaw Pact countries would be back under Russian influence. Your assumption is nonsense.

Funny how entry into the EU wasn't enough to placate the fears of ex-Warsaw Pact countries.

Ukraine will even put up old ladies to fight the Russians:


https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2022/02/AP22044508553595-e1644783248813-640x400.jpg



https://www.timesofisrael.com/diplomatic-efforts-continue-at-fever-pace-as-ukraine-tensions-hit-critical-point/

Valentyna Konstantynovska, 79 years-old, holds a weapon during basic combat training for civilians, organized by the Special Forces Unit Azov, of Ukraine's National Guard, in Mariupol, Donetsk region, eastern Ukraine, February 13, 2022. (AP Photo/ Vadim Ghirda)

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 6:07pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 5:34pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 5:13pm: Frank wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 4:35pm: Expanding NATO across Eastern Europe was a mistake. They should have made them all militarily neutral, like Switzerland, Austria, Sweden and Finland. Expansion of NATO: Had they not joined NATO, most of those ex-Warsaw Pact countries would be back under Russian influence. Your assumption is nonsense. Funny how entry into the EU wasn't enough to placate the fears of ex-Warsaw Pact countries.

The EU is not a military organisation, Bbwian.  Tsk, tsk   ::) ::)

Frank wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 9:05pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 6:07pm: Frank wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 5:34pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 5:13pm: Frank wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 4:35pm: Expanding NATO across Eastern Europe was a mistake. They should have made them all militarily neutral, like Switzerland, Austria, Sweden and Finland. Expansion of NATO: Had they not joined NATO, most of those ex-Warsaw Pact countries would be back under Russian influence. Your assumption is nonsense. Funny how entry into the EU wasn't enough to placate the fears of ex-Warsaw Pact countries. The EU is not a military organisation

Exactly.

Which is why the ex-Warsaw Pact nations needed membership in NATO (which includes the US) to ensure the Russians wouldn't be back, given an attack on one is an attack on all.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 9:23pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 9:05pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 6:07pm: Frank wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 5:34pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 5:13pm: Frank wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 4:35pm: Expanding NATO across Eastern Europe was a mistake. They should have made them all militarily neutral, like Switzerland, Austria, Sweden and Finland. Expansion of NATO: Had they not joined NATO, most of those ex-Warsaw Pact countries would be back under Russian influence. Your assumption is nonsense. Funny how entry into the EU wasn't enough to placate the fears of ex-Warsaw Pact countries. The EU is not a military organisation Exactly. Which is why the ex-Warsaw Pact nations needed membership in NATO (which includes the US) to ensure the Russians wouldn't be back, given an attack on one is an attack on all.

Nonsense. NATO will not, cannot defend these countries. It is inconceivable that the West will go to war with Russia  for Latvia or Bulgaria or Romania, let alone for the Ukraine. It's delusional.

The expansion if NATO is as stupid as the expansion of the EU.

Frank wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 9:40pm:

Nonsense. NATO will not, cannot defend these countries. It is inconceivable that the West will go to war with Russia  for Latvia or Bulgaria or Romania, let alone for the Ukraine. It's delusional. The expansion if NATO is as stupid as the expansion of the EU.

England went to war over Poland in 1939 but times have changed.

Biden has already said that he won't send in
US military troops to help Ukraine.
He's basically telling Putin to go in.

Yes - I don't think the USA would help
Latvia or Bulgaria or Romania if they are next.
NATO members such as France and the UK might.
Germany is full of pacifists and homosexuals -
they won't do anything.

Frank wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 9:40pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 9:23pm: Frank wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 9:05pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 6:07pm: Frank wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 5:34pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 5:13pm: Frank wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 4:35pm: Expanding NATO across Eastern Europe was a mistake. They should have made them all militarily neutral, like Switzerland, Austria, Sweden and Finland. Expansion of NATO: Had they not joined NATO, most of those ex-Warsaw Pact countries would be back under Russian influence. Your assumption is nonsense. Funny how entry into the EU wasn't enough to placate the fears of ex-Warsaw Pact countries. The EU is not a military organisation Exactly. Which is why the ex-Warsaw Pact nations needed membership in NATO (which includes the US) to ensure the Russians wouldn't be back, given an attack on one is an attack on all. Nonsense. NATO will not, cannot defend these countries. It is inconceivable that the West will go to war with Russia  for Latvia or Bulgaria or Romania, let alone for the Ukraine. It's delusional.

It's Stalinesque (or Khrushchevian) that Putin would test NATO resolve.

Russia: Between a Asian Rock and a European Hard Place.

The USSR (Rus-Soviet) emerged to extend its Republic of Military and Political dominance under the system of Communism and that extension was also into Asia. Where, besides forcing China to take on Communism, stole much land from China in the process. China had no choice but to 'submit'.
Quickly, the White-Rus-Soviet colonisation of the far eastern Siberian lands began. Cities evolved, gulags, massive military installations, resource minings and more. The 'White' man was moving into Asia to face the North American threat across the Berring Sea.
When the USA was in Korea (War) General Macarthur's famous quote "We are here to kick the yellow mongol out of Asia" (and send them where? ::)). This confirmed the Cold War was a default war to turn the entire Northern Hemisphere 'all white' and send the darkies 'down under' into the Southern - YIN/YANG.
The belief that the Brownies would be kicked out of the Middle-East and sent to Australia and the Yellows would join their Polynesian cousins in Oceania.
Don't laugh - this was real.

...but there was one flaw. The whole thing itself.

Now the USSR 'failed' and fell. White Rus-Soviets have abandoned the East and Siberia, scurrying back towards Europe. Putin can't even give away property, buildings, vast lands and more for FREE to his whitey people 'out there'. Instead, the Chinese people and Mongolians are moving back in. 500,000 Chinese now live across the border exploiting Russian lands, many in military uniform. Vladivostok - once the pride of the USSR is a rusted out ghost of its former self. Subs, ships and more are derelict, unused and rusting away.

Russia can not afford to be like the USSR was. Putin is just not strong enough to replicate a 'renaissance' although currently he is bluffing that he can.

When the USSR collapsed from Communism to Capitalism - it was a great betrayal to China. 10 years ago Europe pressured Russia to choose to be Pro-European or remain Pro-Asian. Russia is now caught between a rock and a hard place. Like Ernest Hemingway - "They went out too far." and came back with but skin and bone.

Of course, Russia the capitalist 'gangland nation' where 40% of its women are now all single-mothers and murder over a pair of levi jeans is common and every driver is drunk. The country has gone down the gurgler and Putin is DESPERATE - for Europe is not and the Ukraine's only fault is not joining NATO... Russia would be stuffed if it did so tomorrow.

Russia will capitulate to Europe - it is afterall, European more than it is 'Asian' in regards to the far 'Yellow' Asia.
That's when China will turn on Russia, and its ally India.

When it comes to Master Plans, colonisations, etc - you could say that the Yellow Race in Asia has stepped up and about to teach both European and Black Indian that the Yellow Man is the rightful 'mass production' race in Asia.
In other words, you are welcome, but not to replace us as we are here. Fair enough.

So I'm looking forward to seeing the so-called two baddies cancel each other out in the Sino-v-Russo War... as predicted. There is no other way, especially when there is a far greater and more productive 'Plan' than the silly YIN/YANG one they tried to turn the world into.

Don't expect the Media to tell you all this - it would spoil the fun, now wouldn't it.

Bobby. wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 9:47pm:

Biden has already said that he won't send in US military troops to help Ukraine.

No. Biden said he would not send in troops to rescue American citizens who choose to stay in Ukraine.

Has anyone considered the possibility that the Ukraine may have something of importance which Russia and the US need? I'm thinking the usual stuff  Eg minerals/oil/geographic strategic position/base.

That could explain the real agenda behind the US vs Russia tug of war.

IF that's the case then war could very well be on the agenda.

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 10:03pm:

Has anyone considered the possibility that the Ukraine may have something of importance which Russia and the US need? I'm thinking the usual stuff  Eg minerals/oil/geographic strategic position/base. That could explain the real agenda behind the US vs Russia tug of war. IF that's the case then war could very well be on the agenda.

Russia and Germany (and other European powers) have historically used, what is now, eastern Europe as a buffer zone.

Putin wants to re-establish that order.

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 10:03pm:

Has anyone considered the possibility that the Ukraine may have something of importance which Russia and the US need? I'm thinking the usual stuff  Eg minerals/oil/geographic strategic position/base. That could explain the real agenda behind the US vs Russia tug of war. IF that's the case then war could very well be on the agenda.

Like Australia wouldn't help Timor until it got a slice of the Diamond action.
The pressure is on Ukraine to join NATO (rest of Europe) or submit again to Russian retro.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 10:06pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:03pm: Has anyone considered the possibility that the Ukraine may have something of importance which Russia and the US need? I'm thinking the usual stuff  Eg minerals/oil/geographic strategic position/base. That could explain the real agenda behind the US vs Russia tug of war. IF that's the case then war could very well be on the agenda. Russia and Germany (and other European powers) have historically used, what is now, eastern Europe as a buffer zone. Putin wants to re-establish that order.

I bet he does!

Now let ME explain to you WHY!

And it's not just about buffer zoning either.

Ukraine has extremely rich and complementary mineral resources in high concentrations and close proximity to each other. The country has abundant reserves of coal, iron ore, natural gas, manganese, salt, oil, graphite, sulfur, kaolin, titanium, nickel, magnesium, timber, and mercury.

Coal takes a leading place in the fuel and energy balance of Ukraine. In the structure of hydrocarbon fossil resources of Ukraine, coal is about 95%, oil and gas - 2.5% each. The total coal reserves of Ukraine to a depth of 1,500 meters amount to about 117 billion tons.

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 10:09pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:06pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:03pm: Has anyone considered the possibility that the Ukraine may have something of importance which Russia and the US need? I'm thinking the usual stuff  Eg minerals/oil/geographic strategic position/base. That could explain the real agenda behind the US vs Russia tug of war. IF that's the case then war could very well be on the agenda. Russia and Germany (and other European powers) have historically used, what is now, eastern Europe as a buffer zone. Putin wants to re-establish that order. I bet he does! Now let ME explain to you WHY! And it's not just about buffer zoning either. Ukraine has extremely rich and complementary mineral resources in high concentrations and close proximity to each other. The country has abundant reserves of coal, iron ore, natural gas, manganese, salt, oil, graphite, sulfur, kaolin, titanium, nickel, magnesium, timber, and mercury. Coal takes a leading place in the fuel and energy balance of Ukraine. In the structure of hydrocarbon fossil resources of Ukraine, coal is about 95%, oil and gas - 2.5% each. The total coal reserves of Ukraine to a depth of 1,500 meters amount to about 117 billion tons.

Neither here nor there. The cost of war far exceeds any gains in mineral resources, the extraction of which would be dogged by guerilla warfare.

If that's all he wanted, there are easier ways of getting it.

Russia has historically had reason to fear western Europe, not least because of Napoleon and Hitler.

Jasin wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 10:09pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:03pm: Has anyone considered the possibility that the Ukraine may have something of importance which Russia and the US need? I'm thinking the usual stuff  Eg minerals/oil/geographic strategic position/base. That could explain the real agenda behind the US vs Russia tug of war. IF that's the case then war could very well be on the agenda. Like Australia wouldn't help Timor until it got a slice of the Diamond action. The pressure is on Ukraine to join NATO (rest of Europe) or submit again to Russian retro.

1. The US wants Ukraine.

2. Russia wants Ukraine.

3. Ukraine isn't allowed to be independent.

There's trillions of dollars worth of minerals and resources at stake here. IF there's a war then this is what it's going to really be about.

FTM

Follow
The
Money

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 10:14pm:

Jasin wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:09pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:03pm: Has anyone considered the possibility that the Ukraine may have something of importance which Russia and the US need? I'm thinking the usual stuff  Eg minerals/oil/geographic strategic position/base. That could explain the real agenda behind the US vs Russia tug of war. IF that's the case then war could very well be on the agenda. Like Australia wouldn't help Timor until it got a slice of the Diamond action. The pressure is on Ukraine to join NATO (rest of Europe) or submit again to Russian retro. 1. The US wants Ukraine. 2. Russia wants Ukraine. 3. Ukraine isn't allowed to be independent. There's trillions of dollars worth of minerals and resources at stake here. IF there's a war then this is what it's going to really be about. FTM Follow The Money

The US has no interest in Ukraine, except what a successful Russian invasion would say of the NATO alliance and the US leadership of it..

Follow the cards in a poker game.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 10:13pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:09pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:06pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:03pm: Has anyone considered the possibility that the Ukraine may have something of importance which Russia and the US need? I'm thinking the usual stuff  Eg minerals/oil/geographic strategic position/base. That could explain the real agenda behind the US vs Russia tug of war. IF that's the case then war could very well be on the agenda. Russia and Germany (and other European powers) have historically used, what is now, eastern Europe as a buffer zone. Putin wants to re-establish that order. I bet he does! Now let ME explain to you WHY! And it's not just about buffer zoning either. Ukraine has extremely rich and complementary mineral resources in high concentrations and close proximity to each other. The country has abundant reserves of coal, iron ore, natural gas, manganese, salt, oil, graphite, sulfur, kaolin, titanium, nickel, magnesium, timber, and mercury. Coal takes a leading place in the fuel and energy balance of Ukraine. In the structure of hydrocarbon fossil resources of Ukraine, coal is about 95%, oil and gas - 2.5% each. The total coal reserves of Ukraine to a depth of 1,500 meters amount to about 117 billion tons. Neither here nor there. The cost of war far exceeds any gains in mineral resources, the extraction of which would be dogged by guerilla warfare. If that's all he wanted, there are easier ways of getting it. Russia has historically had reason to fear western Europe, not least because of Napoleon and Hitler.

Wait a moment.

You do realise that when we talk about Russians we are talking Russians vs White Russians (Ukrainians who were pro Tsar and Anti Communist Revolution)  yes?

Russians have historically hated the White Russians. And they were used/abused as a result. Anything they produced was essentially confiscated by the State.

China: keeping its Russian enemy closer.

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 10:18pm:

Wait a moment. You do realise that when we talk about Russians we are talking Russians vs White Russians (Ukrainians who were pro Tsar and Anti Communist Revolution)  yes?

What Putin plays up: 'We're all brother and sisters'.

Ukrainians don't think so.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 10:15pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:14pm: Jasin wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:09pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:03pm: Has anyone considered the possibility that the Ukraine may have something of importance which Russia and the US need? I'm thinking the usual stuff  Eg minerals/oil/geographic strategic position/base. That could explain the real agenda behind the US vs Russia tug of war. IF that's the case then war could very well be on the agenda. Like Australia wouldn't help Timor until it got a slice of the Diamond action. The pressure is on Ukraine to join NATO (rest of Europe) or submit again to Russian retro. 1. The US wants Ukraine. 2. Russia wants Ukraine. 3. Ukraine isn't allowed to be independent. There's trillions of dollars worth of minerals and resources at stake here. IF there's a war then this is what it's going to really be about. FTM Follow The Money The US has no interest in Ukraine, except what a successful Russian invasion would say of the NATO alliance and the US leadership of it.. Follow the cards in a poker game.

The US needs those minerals. Oil ores etc.

So does Russia.

The 3rd player in this isn't NATO ...it's CHINA.

China would love nothing more than for the US and Russia to go to war. Why? All China will need to do is sit back and watch them destroy each other after which China will walk in and take over whatever is left.

Both the US and Russia know this.

Hence the current war of words.

The risk? We've got : Biden vs Putin are stating words at each other. 

It would have been better if we had : Trump vs Putin - because these 2 got on better.

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 10:29pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:15pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:14pm: Jasin wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:09pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:03pm: Has anyone considered the possibility that the Ukraine may have something of importance which Russia and the US need? I'm thinking the usual stuff  Eg minerals/oil/geographic strategic position/base. That could explain the real agenda behind the US vs Russia tug of war. IF that's the case then war could very well be on the agenda. Like Australia wouldn't help Timor until it got a slice of the Diamond action. The pressure is on Ukraine to join NATO (rest of Europe) or submit again to Russian retro. 1. The US wants Ukraine. 2. Russia wants Ukraine. 3. Ukraine isn't allowed to be independent. There's trillions of dollars worth of minerals and resources at stake here. IF there's a war then this is what it's going to really be about. FTM Follow The Money The US has no interest in Ukraine, except what a successful Russian invasion would say of the NATO alliance and the US leadership of it.. Follow the cards in a poker game. The US needs those minerals. Oil ores etc. So does Russia. The 3rd player in this isn't NATO ...it's CHINA. China would love nothing more than for the US and Russia to go to war. Why? All China will need to do is sit back and watch them destroy each other after which China will walk in and take over whatever is left. Both the US and Russia know this. Hence the current war of words. The risk? We've got : Biden vs Putin are stating words at each other.  It would have been better if we had : Trump vs Putin - because these 2 got on better.

Do you play poker?

None of them wants a war; it's about how much you can get by bluff - without showing your hand.

When Putin fails to desperately re-establish something akin to the glory days of the USSR and re-take nations such as Kazakhstan, Ukraine, etc.
You watch him suddenly 'dissapear' like Rasputin did.
Putin will fail - he's just a man... a dictator.
He is not an entire ideology of Communism of cultural grand design.


...when Russia falls.

Australia will be forced to 'rise' as a new Super Power
(and that's when it will best to flee to NZ ;))

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 10:25pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:18pm: Wait a moment. You do realise that when we talk about Russians we are talking Russians vs White Russians (Ukrainians who were pro Tsar and Anti Communist Revolution)  yes? What Putin plays up: 'We're all brother and sisters'. Ukrainians don't think so.

Exactly.

Read this everyone. NB It's not an easy read 😩

Beginning in the 18th century, Ukrainian territories were divided between the Austrian and Russian Empires. In the aftermath of World War I and the overthrow of the Russian monarchy in February 1917, Ukraine set up a provisional government, declaring itself the independent Ukrainian People's Republic in January 1918. The Ukrainian People's Republic fought the Bolshevik Red Army for three years (1918-1921) but lost its fight for independence.

The bulk of Ukrainian territory was forcibly incorporated into the Soviet Union, or USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics), and by 1922 Ukraine became the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic (UkrSSR). Then the USSR  sanctioned the requisition of all surplus agricultural products from the rural population, resulting in economic collapse.

In 1932 and 1933, millions of Ukrainians were killed in the Holodomor, a man-made famine engineered by the Soviet government of Joseph Stalin. The primary victims of the Holodomor (literally "death inflicted by starvation") were rural farmers and villagers, who made up roughly 80 percent of Ukraine's population in the 1930s. While it is impossible to determine the precise number of victims of the Ukrainian genocide, most estimates by scholars range from roughly 3.5 million to 7 million (with some estimates going higher). The most detailed demographic studies estimate the death toll at 3.9 million. Historians agree that, as with other genocides, the precise number will never be known.

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 10:33pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:25pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:18pm: Wait a moment. You do realise that when we talk about Russians we are talking Russians vs White Russians (Ukrainians who were pro Tsar and Anti Communist Revolution)  yes? What Putin plays up: 'We're all brother and sisters'. Ukrainians don't think so. Exactly. Read this everyone. NB It's not an easy read 😩 Beginning in the 18th century, Ukrainian territories were divided between the Austrian and Russian Empires. In the aftermath of World War I and the overthrow of the Russian monarchy in February 1917, Ukraine set up a provisional government, declaring itself the independent Ukrainian People's Republic in January 1918. The Ukrainian People's Republic fought the Bolshevik Red Army for three years (1918-1921) but lost its fight for independence. The bulk of Ukrainian territory was forcibly incorporated into the Soviet Union, or USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics), and by 1922 Ukraine became the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic (UkrSSR). Then the USSR  sanctioned the requisition of all surplus agricultural products from the rural population, resulting in economic collapse. In 1932 and 1933, millions of Ukrainians were killed in the Holodomor, a man-made famine engineered by the Soviet government of Joseph Stalin. The primary victims of the Holodomor (literally "death inflicted by starvation") were rural farmers and villagers, who made up roughly 80 percent of Ukraine's population in the 1930s. While it is impossible to determine the precise number of victims of the Ukrainian genocide, most estimates by scholars range from roughly 3.5 million to 7 million (with some estimates going higher). The most detailed demographic studies estimate the death toll at 3.9 million. Historians agree that, as with other genocides, the precise number will never be known.

So why do Ukrainians want independence and membership in NATO, you think?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 10:31pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:29pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:15pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:14pm: Jasin wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:09pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:03pm: Has anyone considered the possibility that the Ukraine may have something of importance which Russia and the US need? I'm thinking the usual stuff  Eg minerals/oil/geographic strategic position/base. That could explain the real agenda behind the US vs Russia tug of war. IF that's the case then war could very well be on the agenda. Like Australia wouldn't help Timor until it got a slice of the Diamond action. The pressure is on Ukraine to join NATO (rest of Europe) or submit again to Russian retro. 1. The US wants Ukraine. 2. Russia wants Ukraine. 3. Ukraine isn't allowed to be independent. There's trillions of dollars worth of minerals and resources at stake here. IF there's a war then this is what it's going to really be about. FTM Follow The Money The US has no interest in Ukraine, except what a successful Russian invasion would say of the NATO alliance and the US leadership of it.. Follow the cards in a poker game. The US needs those minerals. Oil ores etc. So does Russia. The 3rd player in this isn't NATO ...it's CHINA. China would love nothing more than for the US and Russia to go to war. Why? All China will need to do is sit back and watch them destroy each other after which China will walk in and take over whatever is left. Both the US and Russia know this. Hence the current war of words. The risk? We've got : Biden vs Putin are stating words at each other.  It would have been better if we had : Trump vs Putin - because these 2 got on better. Do you play poker? None of them wants a war; it's about how much you can get by bluff - without showing your hand.

I have never played poker but I do play UNO with my family and the bluffing in that game is enough of a clue to understand exactly what you're saying. You appear to be saying something along the way and your face appears to be saying something along the way and both can be used to trick your opponent into making a false move with their cards. Essentially giving you an advantage.

It's really a type of psychological warfare. Chess is another type of game. Poker of course etc

(I can't wait for someone on OzPol to start a topic on gaming and how it relates to war : absolutely fascinating stuff)

And Trump said to Xi during his visit in Beijing
"I am not your enemy."
Xi turned to look at Putin, sulking in the corner because Xi put on the most lavish grand welcome for Trump than for any other President, and said in a whisper to himself "Then who is?" as he continued to stare at Putin - the last of the Russo-Soviet threat that once brought China to its knees to serve the Communist path.

The Western European Celtics fled Europe to North America because they believed they were superior.
The Eastern European Slavs were kicked out like convicts to Sahul-Australia because they were inferior.
The Southern European Latins said from their idyllic Oceanic islands "That history was a lie and they were never in Europe to begin with."
The Northern European Skandis were left to clean up the mess in Europe from a party they were never invited to in the first place.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 10:37pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:33pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:25pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:18pm: Wait a moment. You do realise that when we talk about Russians we are talking Russians vs White Russians (Ukrainians who were pro Tsar and Anti Communist Revolution)  yes? What Putin plays up: 'We're all brother and sisters'. Ukrainians don't think so. Exactly. Read this everyone. NB It's not an easy read 😩 Beginning in the 18th century, Ukrainian territories were divided between the Austrian and Russian Empires. In the aftermath of World War I and the overthrow of the Russian monarchy in February 1917, Ukraine set up a provisional government, declaring itself the independent Ukrainian People's Republic in January 1918. The Ukrainian People's Republic fought the Bolshevik Red Army for three years (1918-1921) but lost its fight for independence. The bulk of Ukrainian territory was forcibly incorporated into the Soviet Union, or USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics), and by 1922 Ukraine became the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic (UkrSSR). Then the USSR  sanctioned the requisition of all surplus agricultural products from the rural population, resulting in economic collapse. In 1932 and 1933, millions of Ukrainians were killed in the Holodomor, a man-made famine engineered by the Soviet government of Joseph Stalin. The primary victims of the Holodomor (literally "death inflicted by starvation") were rural farmers and villagers, who made up roughly 80 percent of Ukraine's population in the 1930s. While it is impossible to determine the precise number of victims of the Ukrainian genocide, most estimates by scholars range from roughly 3.5 million to 7 million (with some estimates going higher). The most detailed demographic studies estimate the death toll at 3.9 million. Historians agree that, as with other genocides, the precise number will never be known. So why do Ukrainians want independence and membership in NATO, you think?

1. Ukraine wants to be left alone. And truly be independent. They've gone through Hell and back and if you study their history they were once a fully independent nation before the Russians came through and totally devastated their land and their people. 

2. Ukraine needs protection from Russia.

3. NATO is going to offer them
that protection. (It's really the US of course).

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14^th, 2022 at 11:00pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:37pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:33pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:25pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:18pm: Wait a moment. You do realise that when we talk about Russians we are talking Russians vs White Russians (Ukrainians who were pro Tsar and Anti Communist Revolution)  yes? What Putin plays up: 'We're all brother and sisters'. Ukrainians don't think so. Exactly. Read this everyone. NB It's not an easy read 😩 Beginning in the 18th century, Ukrainian territories were divided between the Austrian and Russian Empires. In the aftermath of World War I and the overthrow of the Russian monarchy in February 1917, Ukraine set up a provisional government, declaring itself the independent Ukrainian People's Republic in January 1918. The Ukrainian People's Republic fought the Bolshevik Red Army for three years (1918-1921) but lost its fight for independence. The bulk of Ukrainian territory was forcibly incorporated into the Soviet Union, or USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics), and by 1922 Ukraine became the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic (UkrSSR). Then the USSR  sanctioned the requisition of all surplus agricultural products from the rural population, resulting in economic collapse. In 1932 and 1933, millions of Ukrainians were killed in the Holodomor, a man-made famine engineered by the Soviet government of Joseph Stalin. The primary victims of the Holodomor (literally "death inflicted by starvation") were rural farmers and villagers, who made up roughly 80 percent of Ukraine's population in the 1930s. While it is impossible to determine the precise number of victims of the Ukrainian genocide, most estimates by scholars range from roughly 3.5 million to 7 million (with some estimates going higher). The most detailed demographic studies estimate the death toll at 3.9 million. Historians agree that, as with other genocides, the precise number will never be known. So why do Ukrainians want independence and membership in NATO, you think? 1. Ukraine wants to be left alone. And truly be independent. They've gone through Hell and back and if you study their history they were once a fully independent nation before the Russians came through and totally devastated their land and their people.  2. Ukraine needs protection from Russia. 3. NATO is going to offer them that protection. (It's really the US of course).

Exactly.

However, there's no such thing as true independence (at least not in the absolute sense).

The only societies that are close to absolute independence are those yet to be discovered.

Every nation/society has a degree of strategic value - even small pacific island nations - they at least have a vote each in the UN, as Japan exploited over whaling, for example.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 15^th, 2022 at 6:45am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 11:00pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:37pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:33pm: MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:25pm: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 14th, 2022 at 10:18pm: Wait a moment. You do realise that when we talk about Russians we are talking Russians vs White Russians (Ukrainians who were pro Tsar and Anti Communist Revolution)  yes? What Putin plays up: 'We're all brother and sisters'. Ukrainians don't think so. Exactly. Read this everyone. NB It's not an easy read 😩 Beginning in the 18th century, Ukrainian territories were divided between the Austrian and Russian Empires. In the aftermath of World War I and the overthrow of the Russian monarchy in February 1917, Ukraine set up a provisional government, declaring itself the independent Ukrainian People's Republic in January 1918. The Ukrainian People's Republic fought the Bolshevik Red Army for three years (1918-1921) but lost its fight for independence. The bulk of Ukrainian territory was forcibly incorporated into the Soviet Union, or USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics), and by 1922 Ukraine became the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic (UkrSSR). Then the USSR  sanctioned the requisition of all surplus agricultural products from the rural population, resulting in economic collapse. In 1932 and 1933, millions of Ukrainians were killed in the Holodomor, a man-made famine engineered by the Soviet government of Joseph Stalin. The primary victims of the Holodomor (literally "death inflicted by starvation") were rural farmers and villagers, who made up roughly 80 percent of Ukraine's population in the 1930s. While it is impossible to determine the precise number of victims of the Ukrainian genocide, most estimates by scholars range from roughly 3.5 million to 7 million (with some estimates going higher). The most detailed demographic studies estimate the death toll at 3.9 million. Historians agree that, as with other genocides, the precise number will never be known. So why do Ukrainians want independence and membership in NATO, you think? 1. Ukraine wants to be left alone. And truly be independent. They've gone through Hell and back and if you study their history they were once a fully independent nation before the Russians came through and totally devastated their land and their people.  2. Ukraine needs protection from Russia. 3. NATO is going to offer them that protection. (It's really the US of course). Exactly. However, there's no such thing as true independence (at least not in the absolute sense). The only societies that are close to absolute independence are those yet to be discovered. Every nation/society has a degree of strategic value - even small pacific island nations - they at least have a vote each in the UN, as Japan exploited over whaling, for example.

I totally get your point.

So in essence there is a passive war of sorts going on all the time btwn countries.

Countries are continually looking for allies so as to garner support and get their viewpoints/issues tabled and addressed through entities such as NATO.

This tug of war for the microphone (so to speak : pun fully intended lol) can get violent. Why? Some countries are not able to get close to the microphone eg Russia.

Meantime Ukraine as a provisional NATO member IS being heard (and is therefore more supported than Russia who isn't).

Some of the recent comments from NATO's top dog are tantamount to a headmaster reprimanding a bully. I'll find the comments and post them up for everyone to read.

BTW .... could we meet up in here this evening? I'm only asking because it's one of the few topics left on OzPol where we can chat and get somewhere (irrespective of our political leanings).

Much respect to the person who started such a great topic 👍

Timeline Of Recent Events

Note : This was happening while we were busy being blindsided by Delta and Omicron and China and mandated vaccine passports etc

June 2021

At the Brussels Summit, NATO leaders reiterated the decision taken at the 2008 Bucharest Summit that Ukraine would become a member of the Alliance with the Membership Action Plan (MAP) as an integral part of the process and Ukraine's right to determine its own future and foreign policy, of course without outside interference.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg also stressed that Russia will not be able to veto Ukraine's accession to NATO, as we will not return to the era of spheres of interest, when large countries decide what smaller ones should do.

November 2021

Russian President Putin stated that an expansion of NATO's presence in Ukraine, especially the deployment of any long-range missiles capable of striking Russian cities or missile defense systems similar to those in Romania and Poland, would be a "red line" issue for Russia. Putin asked U.S. President Joe Biden for legal guarantees that NATO wouldn’t expand eastward or put "weapons systems that threaten us in close vicinity to Russian territory."According to Putin, "If some kind of strike systems appear on the territory of Ukraine, the flight time to Moscow will be seven to 10 minutes, and five minutes in the case of a hypersonic weapon being deployed."

NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg replied that "It's only Ukraine and 30 NATO allies that decide when Ukraine is ready to join NATO. Russia has no veto, Russia has no say, and Russia has no right to establish a sphere of influence to try to control their neighbours.

December 2021

Russian President Vladimir Putin said he wanted to receive guarantees from the West that Ukraine would not join NATO. On 16 December, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg stated that the Alliance would not make concessions to Russia on the issue of Ukraine's accession. According to him, Ukraine has the right to protection and together with NATO will determine the issue of membership in the Alliance.

January 2022

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said that NATO will not compromise with Russia on Ukraine's membership and that Ukraine's membership in NATO will be decided by Ukraine and its allies. He assured that the Alliance helps Ukraine to meet the criteria necessary for membership in the organization.

The Alliance continues to provide Ukraine with political support for its territorial integrity and sovereignty, as well as practical assistance. It is also a clear signal that Ukraine has the right to defend itself.


* Could you guys please read the above timeline of recent events and tell me what you think?

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 15^th, 2022 at 8:09am:

Timeline Of Recent Events

Yes. Russia, under Putin, is expansionist.

While Putin has derided communism, he has described the dissolution of the Soviet Union as the 'great catastrophe'. His stated political ambition is to reconstitute the boundaries of the old Soviet Union, not as a forced union, but as 'independent' states in line under the Russian sphere of influence.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 15^th, 2022 at 9:07am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 8:09am: Timeline Of Recent Events Yes. Russia, under Putin, is expansionist. While Putin has derided communism, he has described the dissolution of the Soviet Union as the 'great catastrophe'. His stated political ambition is to reconstitute the boundaries of the old Soviet Union, not as a forced union, but as 'independent' states in line under the Russian sphere of influence.

Yes. Hence why I support NATO's stance in essentially calling Putin a BS liar and bully.

Let's take a cursory glance at history. Where? Anywhere in the world. When? Any time you like.

What will you find? 

ANY country which embarks on its own separate expansionist path WILL come undone. Eventually.

You'd think Russia would already know this? Yes? Just grab 2 examples from history's page directly affecting Russia itself. Napoleon and Hitler failed miserably trying to get to Moscow when they saw fit to expand their regimes.

Of course Russia knows. So for me the question is why are they STILL pushing FOR Ukraine in particular?

Russia needs something. What has Ukraine got?

Let's take another look at history for a clue : Russia has dreadfully used/abused the Ukraine for over a century because it has an abundance in natural and mineral resources. And Russia needs those.

What NATO is saying to Putin is essentially this : hands off Ukraine as it's independent and we support its right to autonomy. We are NATO and we are the good guys.

What NATO is NOT saying is this : Ukraine has natural and mineral resources which we need. So let's jump on board Ukraine's mission to remain independent and we'll even invite it into our organisation. There's no doubt in my mind that there will be a lot of strings attached to that support package. And all those strings will favour NATO of course...and by that I mean US and UK etc.

Essentially we're looking at a tug of war for resources worth trillions of dollars and THAT covert tug of war is the real agenda being dressed up as Ukraine's right to freedom and autonomy.

Global politics is all about what's not being said. You have to constantly read btwn the lines.

You know what just occurred to me?

If the issue of depleting natural mineral resources is really that serious then this current tug of war could well blow us all into a shocking new type of warfare.

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 15^th, 2022 at 9:39am:

What NATO is NOT saying is this : Ukraine has natural and mineral resources which we need. So let's jump on board Ukraine's mission to remain independent and we'll even invite it into our organisation. There's no doubt in my mind that there will be a lot of strings attached to that support package. And all those strings will favour NATO of course...and by that I mean US and UK etc.

All true, but the greatest prize will be NATO's control of the Baltic.

Russian aggression against Ukraine is driving Finland and Sweden towards NATO and that is very likely what Putin is using the threat of invasion for: to deter these nations from joining the alliance.

If that's the case, it's an extremely dangerous gambit; but maybe it's already too late to calm Scandinavian fear of renewed Russian aggression.

Everyone thinks Russia will invade Ukraine except Russians and Ukrainians.
The Anglo-Brotherhood would like to fight against the Russians to the last drop of Ukrainian blood.
  ;D

athos wrote on Feb 15^th, 2022 at 10:58am:

Everyone thinks Russia will invade Ukraine except Russians and Ukrainians.

So, given you seem to know what Russians and Ukrainians think, what is the reason for the Russian troop build-up along Ukraine's border?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 15^th, 2022 at 11:32am:

athos wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 10:58am: Everyone thinks Russia will invade Ukraine except Russians and Ukrainians. So, given you seem to know what Russians and Ukrainians think, what is the reason for the Russian troop build-up along Ukraine's border?

This is not what I know, but what the Ukrainian and Russian media are objectively saying, unlike the Anglo brotherhood fake news media.
So, given you seem to know what Russians and Ukrainians think, what is the reason for NATO troops build-up along the Russian border?.
:)

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 15^th, 2022 at 9:57am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 9:39am: What NATO is NOT saying is this : Ukraine has natural and mineral resources which we need. So let's jump on board Ukraine's mission to remain independent and we'll even invite it into our organisation. There's no doubt in my mind that there will be a lot of strings attached to that support package. And all those strings will favour NATO of course...and by that I mean US and UK etc. All true, but the greatest prize will be NATO's control of the Baltic. Russian aggression against Ukraine is driving Finland and Sweden towards NATO and that is very likely what Putin is using the threat of invasion for: to deter these nations from joining the alliance. If that's the case, it's an extremely dangerous gambit; but maybe it's already too late to calm Scandinavian fear of renewed Russian aggression.

Yes!

Anyone else starting to remember the games that went on over 100 years ago re controlling the Baltic? Well ... those games are back on.

At the very core of this tug of war is control of Baltic access points.

And this :

"Ukraine has extremely rich and complementary mineral resources in high concentrations and close proximity to each other. The country has abundant reserves of coal, iron ore, natural gas, manganese, salt, oil, graphite, sulfur, kaolin, titanium, nickel, magnesium, timber, and mercury."

When will humanity learn from its mistakes?

Is it capable of doing so?

🥺

athos wrote on Feb 15^th, 2022 at 11:50am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 11:32am: athos wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 10:58am: Everyone thinks Russia will invade Ukraine except Russians and Ukrainians. So, given you seem to know what Russians and Ukrainians think, what is the reason for the Russian troop build-up along Ukraine's border? This is not what I know, but what the Ukrainian and Russian media are objectively saying, unlike the Anglo brotherhood fake news media. So, given you seem to know what Russians and Ukrainians think, what is the reason for NATO troops build-up along the Russian border?. :)

What do you mean by 'objectively' saying?

As I don't presume to know what Russians or Ukrainians think and, more to the point, what Putin is planning, there's a number of options:

Putin is:

- Posturing to warn Sweden, Finland and Ukraine
- Planning to commit minor incursions into Ukraine and ultimately withdraw
- Planning a partial invasion and possible annexation of eastern Ukraine
- Planning a full invasion of Ukraine

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 15^th, 2022 at 12:31pm:

athos wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 11:50am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 11:32am: athos wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 10:58am: Everyone thinks Russia will invade Ukraine except Russians and Ukrainians. So, given you seem to know what Russians and Ukrainians think, what is the reason for the Russian troop build-up along Ukraine's border? This is not what I know, but what the Ukrainian and Russian media are objectively saying, unlike the Anglo brotherhood fake news media. So, given you seem to know what Russians and Ukrainians think, what is the reason for NATO troops build-up along the Russian border?. :) What do you mean by 'objectively' saying? As I don't presume to know what Russians or Ukrainians think and, more to the point, what Putin is planning, there's a number of options: Putin is: - Posturing to warn Sweden, Finland and Ukraine - Planning to commit minor incursions into Ukraine and ultimately withdraw - Planning a partial invasion and possible annexation of eastern Ukraine - Planning a full invasion of Ukraine

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UtBQrBLsTQY/hqdefault.jpg

It means Moron those people live there.

Blah, blah, Blah as you say the BBC and CNN bot. I did not know that you live in Ukraine and Russia and that you know best what is happening there.

"The Anglo-Brotherhood would like to fight against the Russians to the last drop of Ukrainian and Russian blood".
:D

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 15^th, 2022 at 12:31pm:

athos wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 11:50am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 11:32am: athos wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 10:58am: Everyone thinks Russia will invade Ukraine except Russians and Ukrainians. So, given you seem to know what Russians and Ukrainians think, what is the reason for the Russian troop build-up along Ukraine's border? This is not what I know, but what the Ukrainian and Russian media are objectively saying, unlike the Anglo brotherhood fake news media. So, given you seem to know what Russians and Ukrainians think, what is the reason for NATO troops build-up along the Russian border?. :) What do you mean by 'objectively' saying? As I don't presume to know what Russians or Ukrainians think and, more to the point, what Putin is planning, there's a number of options: Putin is: - Posturing to warn Sweden, Finland and Ukraine - Planning to commit minor incursions into Ukraine and ultimately withdraw - Planning a partial invasion and possible annexation of eastern Ukraine - Planning a full invasion of Ukraine

You might need to ignore Athos. He's a regular troll /POS who loves interrupting topics with his incompetent driven clueless mumblings.

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 15^th, 2022 at 2:41pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 12:31pm: athos wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 11:50am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 11:32am: athos wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 10:58am: Everyone thinks Russia will invade Ukraine except Russians and Ukrainians. So, given you seem to know what Russians and Ukrainians think, what is the reason for the Russian troop build-up along Ukraine's border? This is not what I know, but what the Ukrainian and Russian media are objectively saying, unlike the Anglo brotherhood fake news media. So, given you seem to know what Russians and Ukrainians think, what is the reason for NATO troops build-up along the Russian border?. :) What do you mean by 'objectively' saying? As I don't presume to know what Russians or Ukrainians think and, more to the point, what Putin is planning, there's a number of options: Putin is: - Posturing to warn Sweden, Finland and Ukraine - Planning to commit minor incursions into Ukraine and ultimately withdraw - Planning a partial invasion and possible annexation of eastern Ukraine - Planning a full invasion of Ukraine You might need to ignore Athos. He's a regular troll /POS who loves interrupting topics with his incompetent driven clueless mumblings.

Your ignorance and arrogance wont help you to find out the truth.
Maybe this will help you.
:D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNP_uFEVHy4

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 15^th, 2022 at 12:21pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 9:57am: Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 9:39am: What NATO is NOT saying is this : Ukraine has natural and mineral resources which we need. So let's jump on board Ukraine's mission to remain independent and we'll even invite it into our organisation. There's no doubt in my mind that there will be a lot of strings attached to that support package. And all those strings will favour NATO of course...and by that I mean US and UK etc. All true, but the greatest prize will be NATO's control of the Baltic. Russian aggression against Ukraine is driving Finland and Sweden towards NATO and that is very likely what Putin is using the threat of invasion for: to deter these nations from joining the alliance. If that's the case, it's an extremely dangerous gambit; but maybe it's already too late to calm Scandinavian fear of renewed Russian aggression. Yes! Anyone else starting to remember the games that went on over 100 years ago re controlling the Baltic? Well ... those games are back on. At the very core of this tug of war is control of Baltic access points. And this : "Ukraine has extremely rich and complementary mineral resources in high concentrations and close proximity to each other. The country has abundant reserves of coal, iron ore, natural gas, manganese, salt, oil, graphite, sulfur, kaolin, titanium, nickel, magnesium, timber, and mercury." When will humanity learn from its mistakes? Is it capable of doing so? 🥺

The article below confirms our suspicions in this topic. This IS really a geopolitical tug of war over resources.

No one really WANTS war. What will happen unfortunately is that countries will find themselves slipping into war.

The main problem with that is that weaponry has changed. Big time.

Example : Hypersonic missiles - once these are launched by 1 side, the target country may not have time to activate its own (assuming it also has these missiles of course).

The acronym MAD also comes to mind. 😩


https://hir.harvard.edu/ukraine-energy-reserves/

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 15^th, 2022 at 7:25pm:

No one really WANTS war. What will happen unfortunately is that countries will find themselves slipping into war.

International diplomacy is high-stakes poker/uno where everyone is cheating.

War is the worst possible outcome for all, so the trick is for one side not to make a mistake so great that the opposition must take the next logical towards the worst-case scenario.

It is sovereign right of Mother Russkiye to have access to year round warm water ports.... humanitarian issue, Tovarich, without warm water port access Russkye will become kingdom of serfs again due to poverty... no trade no food ....Ukraine creating humanitarian disaster heaping on Russkye peoples!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXp8SnXUvEo

Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 15^th, 2022 at 2:41pm:

You might need to ignore Athos. He's a regular troll /POS who loves interrupting topics with his incompetent driven clueless mumblings.

Yes. Despite the poor English, there is something algorithmic about his replies.

Take a look at this 😳🥺

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/16/ukraine-russia-latest-news-live-putin-biden-kyiv-russian-invasion-threat

Ukraine crisis: Nato considering new battlegroups in eastern Europe after ‘no sign’ of Russian de-escalation – live

• Nato secretary general sees ‘no sign of de-escalation on the ground’ and says organisation is developing options for bolstering eastern flank

• Ukraine accuses Russia of cyber-attack on banks and defence ministry

• Russians ridicule western media on ‘day of no invasion’

• Checks at UK airport over fears extremists may travel to Ukraine

• Russia still building forces on Ukraine border, says top Nato official

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/feb/16/ukraine-russia-latest-news-live-putin-biden-kyiv-russian-invasion-threat

Live Feed

• 3h ago      Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky declares 'we will defend ourselves'

• 3h ago      UK to double number of British troops in Estonia as part of Nato mission

• 5h ago      Nato considering new battlegroups to bolster eastern flank

• 5h ago      Stoltenberg says Russia's military buildup around Ukraine is 'biggest concentration of forces in Europe since Cold War'

• 5h ago      Nato secretary general sees 'no sign of de-escalation on the ground' and warns Russia it's not to late to step back

• 5h ago      Nato secretary general Jens Stoltenberg to give press conference on Ukraine

I am not sure about an invasion.  The math does not add up.  Unless of course, those in power have access to information that we dont know. 

150 thousand Russian troops is not enough for a full scale invasion of Ukraine.   In Gulf War 2, the USA amassed over 350 thousand troops plus more paramilitary contractors to take down Iraq - a country without allies, and poor due to years of sanction.   And all US could do was to control the capital and the rest into the hands of ISIS. 

Ukraine has population of over 44 million people.  150 thousand troops probably cant even control or invade Melbourne. 

Something just dont add up. 

tickleandrose wrote on Feb 17^th, 2022 at 7:11am:

I am not sure about an invasion.  The math does not add up.  Unless of course, those in power have access to information that we dont know.  150 thousand Russian troops is not enough for a full scale invasion of Ukraine.   In Gulf War 2, the USA amassed over 350 thousand troops plus more paramilitary contractors to take down Iraq - a country without allies, and poor due to years of sanction.   And all US could do was to control the capital and the rest into the hands of ISIS.  Ukraine has population of over 44 million people.  150 thousand troops probably cant even control or invade Melbourne.  Something just dont add up.

1. Weaponry has advanced since Gulf War 2.

2. This is an awesome opportunity for Russia to TEST some of it.

Remember WW2 and the bomb? What a wonderful testing opportunity Japan's decision to play hard politics offered the US. Twice.

This is fast becoming something like that historical event.

* Modern History : a subject which ought to be made compulsory for all students from yr7 to yr12. It's the only way to prep the up and coming generation I reckon. They need to be able to draw parallels btwn the BS happening today and yesterday. Why? What we are witnessing today is pretty much predicated on what's happened in the past. The only difference is we can now continue the spat all over again somewhere else or all over again in the same place even! Why not?

At some stage ....a future generation will wake up to itself and realize that it's been trapped in a vicious toxic vortex which needs to be extinguished.

My generation (the X Generation) is NOT that future generation. We're still asleep.

Europe is under the occupation of the Anglo-Brotherhood. More than 70,000 American soldiers are stationed in Europe and 40,000 in Germany.
China only hopes that Europe will regain its freedom.

athos wrote on Feb 17^th, 2022 at 10:56am:

Europe is under the occupation of the Anglo-Brotherhood. More than 70,000 American soldiers are stationed in Europe and 40,000 in Germany. China only hopes that Europe will regain its freedom.

What a load of shyte!

China hopes that the US and Russia go head to head so after the dust has settled ...China can walk in and take over what's left. If indeed anything is left.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 15^th, 2022 at 12:31pm:

athos wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 11:50am: MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 11:32am: athos wrote on Feb 15th, 2022 at 10:58am: Everyone thinks Russia will invade Ukraine except Russians and Ukrainians. So, given you seem to know what Russians and Ukrainians think, what is the reason for the Russian troop build-up along Ukraine's border? This is not what I know, but what the Ukrainian and Russian media are objectively saying, unlike the Anglo brotherhood fake news media. So, given you seem to know what Russians and Ukrainians think, what is the reason for NATO troops build-up along the Russian border?. :) What do you mean by 'objectively' saying? As I don't presume to know what Russians or Ukrainians think and, more to the point, what Putin is planning, there's a number of options: Putin is: A Posturing to warn Sweden, Finland and Ukraine B Planning to commit minor incursions into Ukraine and ultimately withdraw C Planning a partial invasion and possible annexation of eastern Ukraine D Planning a full invasion of Ukraine

Putin: 'Please to lock in B, Eddie Evrywareavich'.

Putin: 'Or maybe C'...

Putin: 'Thinking, could be D'.

Ukraine’s demographic decline is so pronounced that it should be high on the list of strategic considerations. For what, and for whom, might NATO and Russia go to war?

Ukrainians vote with their feet. Nine million have work abroad, according to the National Security and Defense Council of the Ukraine, and 3.2 million have full-time jobs in other countries. There are only 21 million Ukrainians between the ages of 20 and 55, which suggests that more than two-fifths of prime working-age Ukrainians earn their living elsewhere.

I do not know whether this estimate includes half a million Ukrainian prostitutes working abroad since independence, according to one scholarly estimate.

After years of demographic decline, the country has more citizens over 65 years of age than working-age people between 20 and 65.  The UN Population Program forecasts its population will fall by more than half in the course of this century. As noted, the country’s main demographic institute thinks the population is already 30% less than the level reported by the official census.
https://pjmedia.com/spengler/2022/01/27/what-if-they-had-a-war-but-there-was-no-one-there-to-begin-with-n1553825

Frank wrote on Feb 21^st, 2022 at 8:10am:

Ukraine’s demographic decline is so pronounced that it should be high on the list of strategic considerations. For what, and for whom, might NATO and Russia go to war? Ukrainians vote with their feet. Nine million have work abroad, according to the National Security and Defense Council of the Ukraine, and 3.2 million have full-time jobs in other countries. There are only 21 million Ukrainians between the ages of 20 and 55, which suggests that more than two-fifths of prime working-age Ukrainians earn their living elsewhere. I do not know whether this estimate includes half a million Ukrainian prostitutes working abroad since independence, according to one scholarly estimate. After years of demographic decline, the country has more citizens over 65 years of age than working-age people between 20 and 65.  The UN Population Program forecasts its population will fall by more than half in the course of this century. As noted, the country’s main demographic institute thinks the population is already 30% less than the level reported by the official census. https://pjmedia.com/spengler/2022/01/27/what-if-they-had-a-war-but-there-was-no-one-there-to-begin-with-n1553825

Interesting facts.

And of course there's this little spot of bother :

25% of Ukraine's population is Russian.

A moment in which our world could all change
TONY ABBOTT

Few things have been more telling than the reaction of key countries to the Russian army poised on Ukraine’s borders. Britain and the US have sent antitank and anti-aircraft missiles but no troops. Germany has been reluctant even to threaten sanctions should Russia invade. In shades of Munich, France has championed a peace deal based on changing the Ukrainian constitution to meet Russia’s demands. The only ones to emerge with much credit are Ukrainians, who’ve manned their defences and insisted on their right to conduct an independent foreign policy, including to join NATO and the EU.

But regardless of how this episode plays out, let’s be under no illusion. Vladimir Putin sees himself as the new tsar, a ruler for life, determined to restore greater Russia. To that end he has invaded Georgia, annexed Crimea, occupied the Donbas, killed without compunction opponents at home and abroad, and restored Russia as a military superpower despite an economy smaller than Italy’s.

Ukraine is but his present target because it persists in looking West, not East; and because the 1994 Anglo-American security assur­ance, in return for the surrender of Soviet-era nuclear weapons, failed to replicate the one-in, all-in provision of article five of the NATO charter. However the stand-off ends, we can be confident Putin’s campaign will continue, remorseless, relentless, by all means up to and including all-out war, until Ukraine becomes a Russian colony. Then his attention will turn to the Baltic States, then to Poland, then to the other former Soviet satellites, until Russia is again the overlord of eastern Europe.

Of course, Putin is not Hitler and Ukraine is not Czechoslovakia, and these are not the 1930s, but there are plenty of disturbing parallels, including a new axis of great powers ready to disturb the peace to get what they want.

A fortnight ago the Russian dictator and his Chinese counterpart, Xi Jinping, issued a declaration on international relations entering a new era. We know the type of new era they have in mind from their preposterous claim that Russia and China enjoy “longstanding traditions of democracy”. The main purpose of this Moscow-Beijing axis is to bury, they say, the “political and military alliances of the Cold War era” – so no more NATO, no US troops in Japan and South Korea, and an end to the Pax Americana – through a dictators’ partnership that has “no limits” and no “forbidden areas of co-operation”.

At heart what they both reject is the US-backed world order, a liberal and humane set of understandings and arrangements that has enabled the best time in human history; with the world’s people freer, safer and more prosperous than ever. Even though they’ve both benefited from it, with a half-billion Chinese moving from the Third World to the middle class in scarcely a generation, after US president Bill Clinton bent the rules to admit China to the World Trade Organisation; and with Russia becoming a petro power that can turn Europe’s energy on and off like a tap.

So, with these latter-day dictators clearly on the march, as Lenin once asked: what is to be done? A response to the dictators starts with appreciating that just because war is unthinkable to us doesn’t make it unthinkable to them. Since the beginning of time the strong have always been tempted to take advantage of the weak; and the tough and the hungry have always sought to usurp the indolent and the soft. Throw in what Scottish philosopher David Hume recognised, that passions drive reason, and what’s unthinkable to most can become entirely reasonable to some, especially those on a quest for national glory.

As their adventurism shows, both countries’ exceptionalism includes the conviction that they should dominate their regions, if not the wider world. And, as the five decades after 1945 show, the only way to keep aggressors at bay is collective security, otherwise the strong do what they will and the weak suffer what they must.

Take eastern Europe: if it’s Russia against Ukraine, sooner or later Russia will prevail, as Russia ultimately did against Finland in 1940. Take East Asia: if it’s China against Taiwan, China inevitably will prevail. But if it’s Russia or China versus the democracies, one for all and all for one, that’s an entirely different matter.

Perhaps this military crisis might awaken the people of Western countries, so recently discombobulated by a virus and so unaccustomed to sacrifice, to how readily a freedom that’s not cherished and defended can be lost. As history shows, the best way to make potential aggressors think again is to have a contingent of allied soldiers in place so that an attack on a relatively weaker country means engaging the forces of relatively stronger ones. At the very least NATO should be ready substantially to reinforce its frontline states and to supply the Ukrainians with whatever they need to fight on. The point of this would not be to threaten Russia or China with offensive weapons; just to remind bullies of the natural solidarity that should exist between countries striving to be free.

We have to make the war that’s unthinkable to us, for moral reasons, unthinkable to them for prudential reasons. We who shrink from war because it’s morally wrong have to make others shrink from war because they’d likely lose. Of course, our instinctive initial reaction is to avoid “quarrels in faraway countries between people of whom we know nothing”. Yet what other countries’ freedom might be dispensable, if theirs is? And who would we fight alongside if not them? And if others’ fights aren’t ours, who might help us when our turn comes?

Even now I’m not sure how widely it’s grasped what’s at stake in this confrontation between democracy and autocracy, between sovereignty and subservience, and how the whole trajectory of history could change. If Russia seizes Ukraine, a new iron curtain will ring down in Europe. If China exploits the confusion to seize Taiwan, the world order would shift against the democracies as Indo-Pacific countries made the best deal they could with the red superpower or armed themselves to the teeth against it.

Meanwhile, comrades Putin and Xi watch the scuttle from Kabul, because a long-term military presence was judged to be too hard; the toppling of statues, because yesterday’s heroes have to be damned by today’s standards; and our self-flagellation over race and identity, even though there’s never been less racism, and minorities have never had a fairer go – and conclude a decadent West is unlikely to defend itself with vigour, let alone stand up for others.

They see America in retreat and no other country or collection of countries with strength and goodwill sufficient to be the guardian of peace with freedom. For all of us as individuals and for each of our countries, the challenge is to prove them wrong.

Tony Abbott was the 28th Australian prime minister. This is an edited extract of his speech on Monday to the Danube Institute in Budapest.
https://danubeinstitute.hu/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjMnTo85S4A

Release The Germans.

https://i.imgur.com/vR2qOQC.jpg

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 18^th, 2022 at 11:52am:

Putin is: A Posturing to warn Sweden, Finland and Ukraine B Planning to commit minor incursions into Ukraine and ultimately withdraw C Planning a partial invasion and possible annexation of eastern Ukraine D Planning a full invasion of Ukraine Putin: 'Please to lock in B, Eddie Evrywareavich'. Putin: 'Or maybe C'... Putin: 'Thinking, could be D'.

Putin: "OK, Eddie Evrywareavich... Here is new rule of game. I start with 'A', then go to 'B' with Russian characteristics - 'B' and half - I recognise independence of east Ukraine, then go in as peacekeeper. I check see if good enough. If no, I move to 'C'."

Excellent analys and summing up

https://www.patreon.com/posts/putins-got-us-by-62893069

https://youtu.be/lKZIerQ1pdI

Frank wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2022 at 6:47pm:

Perhaps this military crisis might awaken the people of Western countries, so recently discombobulated by a virus and so unaccustomed to sacrifice, to how readily a freedom that’s not cherished and defended can be lost. As history shows, the best way to make potential aggressors think again is to have a contingent of allied soldiers in place so that an attack on a relatively weaker country means engaging the forces of relatively stronger ones. At the very least NATO should be ready substantially to reinforce its frontline states and to supply the Ukrainians with whatever they need to fight on. The point of this would not be to threaten Russia or China with offensive weapons; just to remind bullies of the natural solidarity that should exist between countries striving to be free. We have to make the war that’s unthinkable to us, for moral reasons, unthinkable to them for prudential reasons. We who shrink from war because it’s morally wrong have to make others shrink from war because they’d likely lose. Of course, our instinctive initial reaction is to avoid “quarrels in faraway countries between people of whom we know nothing”. Yet what other countries’ freedom might be dispensable, if theirs is? And who would we fight alongside if not them? And if others’ fights aren’t ours, who might help us when our turn comes? Even now I’m not sure how widely it’s grasped what’s at stake in this confrontation between democracy and autocracy, between sovereignty and subservience, and how the whole trajectory of history could change. If Russia seizes Ukraine, a new iron curtain will ring down in Europe. If China exploits the confusion to seize Taiwan, the world order would shift against the democracies as Indo-Pacific countries made the best deal they could with the red superpower or armed themselves to the teeth against it. Meanwhile, comrades Putin and Xi watch the scuttle from Kabul, because a long-term military presence was judged to be too hard; the toppling of statues, because yesterday’s heroes have to be damned by today’s standards; and our self-flagellation over race and identity, even though there’s never been less racism, and minorities have never had a fairer go – and conclude a decadent West is unlikely to defend itself with vigour, let alone stand up for others. They see America in retreat and no other country or collection of countries with strength and goodwill sufficient to be the guardian of peace with freedom. For all of us as individuals and for each of our countries, the challenge is to prove them wrong. Tony Abbott was the 28th Australian prime minister. This is an edited extract of his speech on Monday to the Danube Institute in Budapest. https://danubeinstitute.hu/

Agreed, dear boy. I'm with Mr Abbott on Russia, but not so much Taiwan. I think we'll eventually need to grant the Chows their territory.

But not Putin. I say we stand and fight. Render unto the Chows that which is the Chow's, but grant Putin nothing. Cesterete him.

You?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2022 at 10:26pm:

Release The Germans.

Release the Kurds. It may come as some surprise, Mistie, but before the fall of Kabul, your Dear Leader was caving all over the globe. The Turks, the Saudis, Kim, Putin, no one was left with any illusions as to where he stood.

Maybe it will, maybe it won't. I don't see why it would be Russia. We'll have to wait and see what happens.

It's now left to Sleepy Joe to do what Dear Leader couldnt bring himself to do: shirt-front Putin.

You bet I am, you bet I will.

Russia, if you're listening...

athos wrote on Feb 17^th, 2022 at 10:56am:

Europe is under the occupation of the Anglo-Brotherhood. More than 70,000 American soldiers are stationed in Europe and 40,000 in Germany. China only hopes that Europe will regain its freedom.

Europe has been at peace now for longer than any period in European history. There is now only one threat to that peace.

You know who.

Back in 2000, Putin repeatedly petitioned for Russia to be admitted to Nato, according to private conversations he had with the former head of the alliance and ex-Labour minister George Robertson, and again in interviews with the American filmmaker Oliver Stone. Putin was told that his country should ‘apply’ to join — there’s that contempt again — and he replied with the deliciously Putinesque response: ‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’

He was not the first Russian leader to have made such overtures. Boris Yeltsin proposed Russian membership in 1991 and the year before Mikhail Gorbachev had ventured the possibility to the then US Secretary of State, James Baker, only to be told that it was merely a ‘dream’. Rather than grasp an opportunity which 30 years later would be to our enormous advantage in dealing with China and radical Islam, the suggestion was dismissed out of hand.

Instead, western countries sent to Moscow scores of free-market ‘consultants’ to oversee the privatisation and massed asset stripping of the formerly state-controlled Soviet industries which led directly to two catastrophic depressions, enormous unemployment and the creation of a semi-criminal or simply criminal oligarchic elite. No wonder that by the end of the 1990s the notion of ‘western democracy’ was viewed by the general population with scorn verging on loathing: a superpower reduced to impotence and penury. It is not difficult to see how the appetite for Vladimir Putin was fostered.

Remarkably, even the Soviet Union, during the most fraught early moments of the Cold War, had asked to be allowed to join Nato. A year after the death of Stalin and a few months after the sidelining of Malenkov, the USSR’s minister for foreign affairs, Vyacheslav Molotov, proposed that his country join an alliance for the collective security of Europe on the grounds that it would be of ‘cardinal importance for the promotion of universal peace’. Molotov’s biographer, Geoffrey Roberts, observed: ‘In May 1954 the western powers rejected the Soviet proposal to join Nato on grounds that the USSR’s membership of the organisation would be incompatible with its democratic and defensive aims. However, Moscow’s extensive and intensive campaign for European collective security continued until the Geneva Foreign Ministers Conference of October-November 1955.’ There was quite possibly geopolitical mischief in Molotov’s design, but the proposal was nonetheless meant in earnest and had the full backing of the premier, Nikita Khrushchev.

So at least four Russian leaders have implored the West to let them into this gilded club and each time they were contemptuously brushed off. But then this has been the history of Russia’s relations with the West. At various times throughout the past 800 years Russia has attempted to ingratiate itself with the West, most notably of course during the reign of Peter the Great, who even forced courtiers to shave off their Russian beards, wear European-style clothing and speak French in the hope that this might impress upon visiting westerners how civilised they were. But on every occasion the Russians have tried this cosying up they have been met with either pronounced sniggering or malevolent opportunism from the rest of Europe.

What usually follows is a period of revanchism, in which subsequent leaders retreat into the comparative comfort of Russia’s roots in Asia, its Slavicness, its difference to the West, out of dismay or pique. St Petersburg itself was renamed Petrograd in 1914 because the old name sounded too western and had the whiff of Germany about it. Vladimir Putin comes from the city and however autocratic and authoritarian his regime, he is — or was — someone who looked to the West: hence that tentative approach to joining Nato. What seems to be happening now is simply what has happened so many times before: Putin has given up the occidental ghost. He is looking east, to China, to ever greater autocracy and a cultural programme which once again sets Russia ideologically at odds with western Europe. We have had many chances to neutralise Russia’s potential threat. They have all been passed up.
Rod Liddle
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/we-blew-our-chance-to-befriend-putin

Quote:

Russia will not invade Ukraine

Jar Jar - Every time you don't obfuscate what you are saying you end up being obviously wrong.

You keep forgetting when on a few rare occasions you type a few words in plain English, it seems to always end in disaster for you.

Frank wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 1:27pm:

Back in 2000, Putin repeatedly petitioned for Russia to be admitted to Nato, according to private conversations he had with the former head of the alliance and ex-Labour minister George Robertson, and again in interviews with the American filmmaker Oliver Stone. Putin was told that his country should ‘apply’ to join — there’s that contempt again — and he replied with the deliciously Putinesque response: ‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’ He was not the first Russian leader to have made such overtures. Boris Yeltsin proposed Russian membership in 1991 and the year before Mikhail Gorbachev had ventured the possibility to the then US Secretary of State, James Baker, only to be told that it was merely a ‘dream’. Rather than grasp an opportunity which 30 years later would be to our enormous advantage in dealing with China and radical Islam, the suggestion was dismissed out of hand. Instead, western countries sent to Moscow scores of free-market ‘consultants’ to oversee the privatisation and massed asset stripping of the formerly state-controlled Soviet industries which led directly to two catastrophic depressions, enormous unemployment and the creation of a semi-criminal or simply criminal oligarchic elite. No wonder that by the end of the 1990s the notion of ‘western democracy’ was viewed by the general population with scorn verging on loathing: a superpower reduced to impotence and penury. It is not difficult to see how the appetite for Vladimir Putin was fostered. Remarkably, even the Soviet Union, during the most fraught early moments of the Cold War, had asked to be allowed to join Nato. A year after the death of Stalin and a few months after the sidelining of Malenkov, the USSR’s minister for foreign affairs, Vyacheslav Molotov, proposed that his country join an alliance for the collective security of Europe on the grounds that it would be of ‘cardinal importance for the promotion of universal peace’. Molotov’s biographer, Geoffrey Roberts, observed: ‘In May 1954 the western powers rejected the Soviet proposal to join Nato on grounds that the USSR’s membership of the organisation would be incompatible with its democratic and defensive aims. However, Moscow’s extensive and intensive campaign for European collective security continued until the Geneva Foreign Ministers Conference of October-November 1955.’ There was quite possibly geopolitical mischief in Molotov’s design, but the proposal was nonetheless meant in earnest and had the full backing of the premier, Nikita Khrushchev. So at least four Russian leaders have implored the West to let them into this gilded club and each time they were contemptuously brushed off. But then this has been the history of Russia’s relations with the West. At various times throughout the past 800 years Russia has attempted to ingratiate itself with the West, most notably of course during the reign of Peter the Great, who even forced courtiers to shave off their Russian beards, wear European-style clothing and speak French in the hope that this might impress upon visiting westerners how civilised they were. But on every occasion the Russians have tried this cosying up they have been met with either pronounced sniggering or malevolent opportunism from the rest of Europe. What usually follows is a period of revanchism, in which subsequent leaders retreat into the comparative comfort of Russia’s roots in Asia, its Slavicness, its difference to the West, out of dismay or pique. St Petersburg itself was renamed Petrograd in 1914 because the old name sounded too western and had the whiff of Germany about it. Vladimir Putin comes from the city and however autocratic and authoritarian his regime, he is — or was — someone who looked to the West: hence that tentative approach to joining Nato. What seems to be happening now is simply what has happened so many times before: Putin has given up the occidental ghost. He is looking east, to China, to ever greater autocracy and a cultural programme which once again sets Russia ideologically at odds with western Europe. We have had many chances to neutralise Russia’s potential threat. They have all been passed up. Rod Liddle https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/we-blew-our-chance-to-befriend-putin

Oh, I see. And you take Putin's word for that, do you?

Putin tried to join NATO? After he's spent the past decade launching cyber and military attacks against any Eastern European country who even talks to NATO?

Come come. Dear Leader might believe it. You?

Dnarever wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 2:13pm:

Quote: Russia will not invade Ukraine Jar Jar - Every time you don't obfuscate what you are saying you end up being obviously wrong. You keep forgetting when on a few rare occasions you type a few words in plain English, it seems to always end in disaster for you.

It's not an invasion, dear, it's a peace-keeping mission. Putin is just defending all those Ukrainian white Russians.

I blame Islam, but that's just me.

You?

Karnal wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 3:37pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 1:27pm: Back in 2000, Putin repeatedly petitioned for Russia to be admitted to Nato, according to private conversations he had with the former head of the alliance and ex-Labour minister George Robertson, and again in interviews with the American filmmaker Oliver Stone. Putin was told that his country should ‘apply’ to join — there’s that contempt again — and he replied with the deliciously Putinesque response: ‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’ He was not the first Russian leader to have made such overtures. Boris Yeltsin proposed Russian membership in 1991 and the year before Mikhail Gorbachev had ventured the possibility to the then US Secretary of State, James Baker, only to be told that it was merely a ‘dream’. Rather than grasp an opportunity which 30 years later would be to our enormous advantage in dealing with China and radical Islam, the suggestion was dismissed out of hand. Instead, western countries sent to Moscow scores of free-market ‘consultants’ to oversee the privatisation and massed asset stripping of the formerly state-controlled Soviet industries which led directly to two catastrophic depressions, enormous unemployment and the creation of a semi-criminal or simply criminal oligarchic elite. No wonder that by the end of the 1990s the notion of ‘western democracy’ was viewed by the general population with scorn verging on loathing: a superpower reduced to impotence and penury. It is not difficult to see how the appetite for Vladimir Putin was fostered. Remarkably, even the Soviet Union, during the most fraught early moments of the Cold War, had asked to be allowed to join Nato. A year after the death of Stalin and a few months after the sidelining of Malenkov, the USSR’s minister for foreign affairs, Vyacheslav Molotov, proposed that his country join an alliance for the collective security of Europe on the grounds that it would be of ‘cardinal importance for the promotion of universal peace’. Molotov’s biographer, Geoffrey Roberts, observed: ‘In May 1954 the western powers rejected the Soviet proposal to join Nato on grounds that the USSR’s membership of the organisation would be incompatible with its democratic and defensive aims. However, Moscow’s extensive and intensive campaign for European collective security continued until the Geneva Foreign Ministers Conference of October-November 1955.’ There was quite possibly geopolitical mischief in Molotov’s design, but the proposal was nonetheless meant in earnest and had the full backing of the premier, Nikita Khrushchev. So at least four Russian leaders have implored the West to let them into this gilded club and each time they were contemptuously brushed off. But then this has been the history of Russia’s relations with the West. At various times throughout the past 800 years Russia has attempted to ingratiate itself with the West, most notably of course during the reign of Peter the Great, who even forced courtiers to shave off their Russian beards, wear European-style clothing and speak French in the hope that this might impress upon visiting westerners how civilised they were. But on every occasion the Russians have tried this cosying up they have been met with either pronounced sniggering or malevolent opportunism from the rest of Europe. What usually follows is a period of revanchism, in which subsequent leaders retreat into the comparative comfort of Russia’s roots in Asia, its Slavicness, its difference to the West, out of dismay or pique. St Petersburg itself was renamed Petrograd in 1914 because the old name sounded too western and had the whiff of Germany about it. Vladimir Putin comes from the city and however autocratic and authoritarian his regime, he is — or was — someone who looked to the West: hence that tentative approach to joining Nato. What seems to be happening now is simply what has happened so many times before: Putin has given https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/we-blew-our-chance-to-befriend-putin Oh, I see. And you take Putin's word for that, do you? Putin tried to join NATO? After he's spent the past decade launching cyber and military attacks against any Eastern European country who even talks to NATO? Come come. Dear Leader might believe it. You?

That's  enough grimacing and wanky-wanky, paki.

Vladimir Putin wanted Russia to join Nato but did not want his country to have to go through the usual application process and stand in line “with a lot of countries that don’t matter”, according to a former secretary general of the transatlantic alliance.

George Robertson, a former Labour defence secretary who led Nato between 1999 and 2003, said Putin made it clear at their first meeting that he wanted Russia to be part of western Europe. “They wanted to be part of that secure, stable prosperous west that Russia was out of at the time,” he said.

The Labour peer recalled an early meeting with Putin, who became Russian president in 2000. “Putin said: ‘When are you going to invite us to join Nato?’ And [Robertson] said: ‘Well, we don’t invite people to join Nato, they apply to join Nato.’ And he said: ‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-says-putin-wanted-to-join-alliance-early-on-in-his-rule

This is strange - what invasion?
Some sites say that Russia has invaded and some say they haven't.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60480734

There has as yet been no evidence of Russian troops crossing the border
into the rebel-held areas of east Ukraine,

despite Mr Putin's order to conduct what he calls peacekeeping functions.

Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Andrei Rudenko told the AFP news agency that Russia was not sending troops in "for now".

"No one is planning to send anything anywhere. If there is a threat, then we will provide assistance in accordance with the ratified treaties," he said.


https://media.gab.com/system/preview_cards/images/022/956/079/original/40c99b17425f70ca.jpeg

Oh, old boy, so you do believe it. Who's a silly boy then?

To join NATO, Russia would need to make commitments. One of those commitments is not to make trouble with your fellow members.

OF COURSE Putin would not agree to that. His plan is to gain back control of the former USSR, and that means control of NATO members such as Poland, Romania, Latvia and Estonia. 

All those countries who "don't matter".

Putin wants to be in with Europe, he doesn't want to be in Europe. Putin wants control of the Eastern Empire, as it were. But Rome wasn't built in a day, no?

Do you know? I fell for the Oliver Stone narrative once too, dear. We've all done it. Poor old Russia, left at the alter, neglected, forgotten, so unfair.

That might have been true in the 1990s, but not now, not after 20 years of Putin. Today, it's a new day, now we know.

Putin isn't fooling anyone now. Except you.

Frank wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 1:27pm:

Back in 2000, Putin repeatedly petitioned for Russia to be admitted to Nato, according to private conversations he had with the former head of the alliance and ex-Labour minister George Robertson, and again in interviews with the American filmmaker Oliver Stone. Putin was told that his country should ‘apply’ to join — there’s that contempt again — and he replied with the deliciously Putinesque response: ‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’ He was not the first Russian leader to have made such overtures. Boris Yeltsin proposed Russian membership in 1991 and the year before Mikhail Gorbachev had ventured the possibility to the then US Secretary of State, James Baker, only to be told that it was merely a ‘dream’. Rather than grasp an opportunity which 30 years later would be to our enormous advantage in dealing with China and radical Islam, the suggestion was dismissed out of hand. Instead, western countries sent to Moscow scores of free-market ‘consultants’ to oversee the privatisation and massed asset stripping of the formerly state-controlled Soviet industries which led directly to two catastrophic depressions, enormous unemployment and the creation of a semi-criminal or simply criminal oligarchic elite. No wonder that by the end of the 1990s the notion of ‘western democracy’ was viewed by the general population with scorn verging on loathing: a superpower reduced to impotence and penury. It is not difficult to see how the appetite for Vladimir Putin was fostered. Remarkably, even the Soviet Union, during the most fraught early moments of the Cold War, had asked to be allowed to join Nato. A year after the death of Stalin and a few months after the sidelining of Malenkov, the USSR’s minister for foreign affairs, Vyacheslav Molotov, proposed that his country join an alliance for the collective security of Europe on the grounds that it would be of ‘cardinal importance for the promotion of universal peace’. Molotov’s biographer, Geoffrey Roberts, observed: ‘In May 1954 the western powers rejected the Soviet proposal to join Nato on grounds that the USSR’s membership of the organisation would be incompatible with its democratic and defensive aims. However, Moscow’s extensive and intensive campaign for European collective security continued until the Geneva Foreign Ministers Conference of October-November 1955.’ There was quite possibly geopolitical mischief in Molotov’s design, but the proposal was nonetheless meant in earnest and had the full backing of the premier, Nikita Khrushchev. So at least four Russian leaders have implored the West to let them into this gilded club and each time they were contemptuously brushed off. But then this has been the history of Russia’s relations with the West. At various times throughout the past 800 years Russia has attempted to ingratiate itself with the West, most notably of course during the reign of Peter the Great, who even forced courtiers to shave off their Russian beards, wear European-style clothing and speak French in the hope that this might impress upon visiting westerners how civilised they were. But on every occasion the Russians have tried this cosying up they have been met with either pronounced sniggering or malevolent opportunism from the rest of Europe. What usually follows is a period of revanchism, in which subsequent leaders retreat into the comparative comfort of Russia’s roots in Asia, its Slavicness, its difference to the West, out of dismay or pique. St Petersburg itself was renamed Petrograd in 1914 because the old name sounded too western and had the whiff of Germany about it. Vladimir Putin comes from the city and however autocratic and authoritarian his regime, he is — or was — someone who looked to the West: hence that tentative approach to joining Nato. What seems to be happening now is simply what has happened so many times before: Putin has given up the occidental ghost. He is looking east, to China, to ever greater autocracy and a cultural programme which once again sets Russia ideologically at odds with western Europe. We have had many chances to neutralise Russia’s potential threat. They have all been passed up. Rod Liddle https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/we-blew-our-chance-to-befriend-putin

Yes, if people spend 5 minutes to consider Russias point of view, they would be showing  some consideration.

Like Putin or not, you really should listen to him.
He is one of the World Leaders and has been for decades

Sprintcyclist wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 5:09pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 1:27pm: Back in 2000, Putin repeatedly petitioned for Russia to be admitted to Nato, according to private conversations he had with the former head of the alliance and ex-Labour minister George Robertson, and again in interviews with the American filmmaker Oliver Stone. Putin was told that his country should ‘apply’ to join — there’s that contempt again — and he replied with the deliciously Putinesque response: ‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’ He was not the first Russian leader to have made such overtures. Boris Yeltsin proposed Russian membership in 1991 and the year before Mikhail Gorbachev had ventured the possibility to the then US Secretary of State, James Baker, only to be told that it was merely a ‘dream’. Rather than grasp an opportunity which 30 years later would be to our enormous advantage in dealing with China and radical Islam, the suggestion was dismissed out of hand. Instead, western countries sent to Moscow scores of free-market ‘consultants’ to oversee the privatisation and massed asset stripping of the formerly state-controlled Soviet industries which led directly to two catastrophic depressions, enormous unemployment and the creation of a semi-criminal or simply criminal oligarchic elite. No wonder that by the end of the 1990s the notion of ‘western democracy’ was viewed by the general population with scorn verging on loathing: a superpower reduced to impotence and penury. It is not difficult to see how the appetite for Vladimir Putin was fostered. Remarkably, even the Soviet Union, during the most fraught early moments of the Cold War, had asked to be allowed to join Nato. A year after the death of Stalin and a few months after the sidelining of Malenkov, the USSR’s minister for foreign affairs, Vyacheslav Molotov, proposed that his country join an alliance for the collective security of Europe on the grounds that it would be of ‘cardinal importance for the promotion of universal peace’. Molotov’s biographer, Geoffrey Roberts, observed: ‘In May 1954 the western powers rejected the Soviet proposal to join Nato on grounds that the USSR’s membership of the organisation would be incompatible with its democratic and defensive aims. However, Moscow’s extensive and intensive campaign for European collective security continued until the Geneva Foreign Ministers Conference of October-November 1955.’ There was quite possibly geopolitical mischief in Molotov’s design, but the proposal was nonetheless meant in earnest and had the full backing of the premier, Nikita Khrushchev. So at least four Russian leaders have implored the West to let them into this gilded club and each time they were contemptuously brushed off. But then this has been the history of Russia’s relations with the West. At various times throughout the past 800 years Russia has attempted to ingratiate itself with the West, most notably of course during the reign of Peter the Great, who even forced courtiers to shave off their Russian beards, wear European-style clothing and speak French in the hope that this might impress upon visiting westerners how civilised they were. But on every occasion the Russians have tried this cosying up they have been met with either pronounced sniggering or malevolent opportunism from the rest of Europe. What usually follows is a period of revanchism, in which subsequent leaders retreat into the comparative comfort of Russia’s roots in Asia, its Slavicness, its difference to the West, out of dismay or pique. St Petersburg itself was renamed Petrograd in 1914 because the old name sounded too western and had the whiff of Germany about it. Vladimir Putin comes from the city and however autocratic and authoritarian his regime, he is — or was — someone who looked to the West: hence that tentative approach to joining Nato. What seems to be happening now is simply what has happened so many times before: Putin has given up the occidental ghost. He is looking east, to China, to ever greater autocracy and a cultural programme which once again sets Russia ideologically at odds with western Europe. We have had many chances to neutralise Russia’s potential threat. They have all been passed up. Rod Liddle https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/we-blew-our-chance-to-befriend-putin Yes, if people spend 5 minutes to consider Russias point of view, they would be showing  some consideration. Like Putin or not, you really should listen to him. He is one of the World Leaders and has been for decades

Not anymore, he's not. Putin gave up his victim status when he started picking on the weak - Georgia, Azerbaijan, Estonia, Bulgaria, Armenia, Slovenia, the Ukraine, the list goes on and on. He's even tried for a toehold in Venezuela.

Putin is a complete and utter cunt. If he was so concerned with the plight of ordinary Russians, he wouldn't be building himself billion dollar palaces with gold toilet brushes. Forget world leaders, Putin is widely believed to be the richest person in the world, all in black money - the skim from Russian resources.

No one should listen to Putin for the simple reason that you can't trust a thing he says. If that happens in the West, we can just throw them out, like America's recent experience. They can't do that in Russia because of one man and one man only: Putin.

Karnal wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 3:37pm:

Putin tried to join NATO? After he's spent the past decade launching cyber and military attacks against any Eastern European country who even talks to NATO?

No.... in 1990, soon after democracy was restored in Russia.

Frank wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 1:27pm:

Back in 2000, Putin repeatedly petitioned for Russia to be admitted to Nato, according to private conversations he had with the former head of the alliance and ex-Labour minister George Robertson, and again in interviews with the American filmmaker Oliver Stone. Putin was told that his country should ‘apply’ to join — there’s that contempt again — and he replied with the deliciously Putinesque response: ‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’ He was not the first Russian leader to have made such overtures. Boris Yeltsin proposed Russian membership in 1991 and the year before Mikhail Gorbachev had ventured the possibility to the then US Secretary of State, James Baker, only to be told that it was merely a ‘dream’. Rather than grasp an opportunity which 30 years later would be to our enormous advantage in dealing with China and radical Islam, the suggestion was dismissed out of hand. Instead, western countries sent to Moscow scores of free-market ‘consultants’ to oversee the privatisation and massed asset stripping of the formerly state-controlled Soviet industries which led directly to two catastrophic depressions, enormous unemployment and the creation of a semi-criminal or simply criminal oligarchic elite. No wonder that by the end of the 1990s the notion of ‘western democracy’ was viewed by the general population with scorn verging on loathing: a superpower reduced to impotence and penury. It is not difficult to see how the appetite for Vladimir Putin was fostered. Remarkably, even the Soviet Union, during the most fraught early moments of the Cold War, had asked to be allowed to join Nato. A year after the death of Stalin and a few months after the sidelining of Malenkov, the USSR’s minister for foreign affairs, Vyacheslav Molotov, proposed that his country join an alliance for the collective security of Europe on the grounds that it would be of ‘cardinal importance for the promotion of universal peace’. Molotov’s biographer, Geoffrey Roberts, observed: ‘In May 1954 the western powers rejected the Soviet proposal to join Nato on grounds that the USSR’s membership of the organisation would be incompatible with its democratic and defensive aims. However, Moscow’s extensive and intensive campaign for European collective security continued until the Geneva Foreign Ministers Conference of October-November 1955.’ There was quite possibly geopolitical mischief in Molotov’s design, but the proposal was nonetheless meant in earnest and had the full backing of the premier, Nikita Khrushchev. So at least four Russian leaders have implored the West to let them into this gilded club and each time they were contemptuously brushed off. But then this has been the history of Russia’s relations with the West. At various times throughout the past 800 years Russia has attempted to ingratiate itself with the West, most notably of course during the reign of Peter the Great, who even forced courtiers to shave off their Russian beards, wear European-style clothing and speak French in the hope that this might impress upon visiting westerners how civilised they were. But on every occasion the Russians have tried this cosying up they have been met with either pronounced sniggering or malevolent opportunism from the rest of Europe. What usually follows is a period of revanchism, in which subsequent leaders retreat into the comparative comfort of Russia’s roots in Asia, its Slavicness, its difference to the West, out of dismay or pique. St Petersburg itself was renamed Petrograd in 1914 because the old name sounded too western and had the whiff of Germany about it. Vladimir Putin comes from the city and however autocratic and authoritarian his regime, he is — or was — someone who looked to the West: hence that tentative approach to joining Nato. What seems to be happening now is simply what has happened so many times before: Putin has given up the occidental ghost. He is looking east, to China, to ever greater autocracy and a cultural programme which once again sets Russia ideologically at odds with western Europe. We have had many chances to neutralise Russia’s potential threat. They have all been passed up. Rod Liddle https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/we-blew-our-chance-to-befriend-putin

Wow..a sensible and insightful article from your professor Liddle.

But Putin of course didn't understand the extent of the depravity of the US's global hegemony ambitions. No room for another  prosperous, equally well-armed nuclear nation, in that ambition.

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 5:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 3:37pm: Putin tried to join NATO? After he's spent the past decade launching cyber and military attacks against any Eastern European country who even talks to NATO? No.... in 1990, soon after democracy was restored in Russia.

Putin put an end to that when he was installed PM and ran for Prez. He was only put in to pardon Yeltsin.

Putin spent the rest of that decade organising false flag bomb attacks on his own civilians and killing Chechens. There was a brief moment of self-serving War On Terror lip-service to the US in 2001, and its been downhill ever since.

Russia has long paid back its IMF loans. The threat to Russia now is internal. Russia stagnates economically because of rampant corruption - the skim.

Putin can't change course because to cede any power whatsoever would see him behind bars, or worse. Putin has to stay in the game to save his own skin - the fate articulated by Saddam during his trial, the same fate felt by Mubarrak and Gaddafi. Apparently Putin played a tape of Gaddafi's killing over and over again. The Arab Spring taught Putin a lesson he would never forget. He had a choice: be nice, reform and go the way of the West, or become the meanest, hardest, richest cunt in the world.

You know which way he went, everybody knows. But Putin was rotten from the beginning, as as the old Russian saying about rotting fish heads goes.

Everybody knows.

Karnal wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 5:56pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 5:29pm: Karnal wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 3:37pm: Putin tried to join NATO? After he's spent the past decade launching cyber and military attacks against any Eastern European country who even talks to NATO? No.... in 1990, soon after democracy was restored in Russia. Putin put an end to that when he was installed PM and ran for Prez. He was only put in to pardon Yeltsin. Putin spent the rest of that decade organising false flag bomb attacks on his own civilians and killing Chechens. There was a brief moment of self-serving War On Terror lip-service to the US in 2001, and its been downhill ever since. Russia has long paid back its IMF loans. The threat to Russia now is internal. Russia stagnates economically because of rampant corruption - the skim. Putin can't change course because to cede any power whatsoever would see him behind bars, or worse. Putin has to stay in the game to save his own skin - the fate articulated by Saddam during his trial, the same fate felt by Mubarrak and Gaddafi. Apparently Putin played a tape of Gaddafi's killing over and over again. The Arab Spring taught Putin a lesson he would never forget. He had a choice: be nice, reform and go the way of the West, or become the meanest, hardest, richest cunt in the world. You know which way he went, everybody knows. But Putin was rotten from the beginning, as as the old Russian saying about rotting fish heads goes. Everybody knows.

But those sanctions will bite hard.
Russia will run out of money and then what happens?
He might decide to invade all the previous Soviet countries -
that's what Hitler did too when he ran out of money -
he plundered other countries.

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 5:35pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 1:27pm: Back in 2000, Putin repeatedly petitioned for Russia to be admitted to Nato, according to private conversations he had with the former head of the alliance and ex-Labour minister George Robertson, and again in interviews with the American filmmaker Oliver Stone. Putin was told that his country should ‘apply’ to join — there’s that contempt again — and he replied with the deliciously Putinesque response: ‘Well, we’re not standing in line with a lot of countries that don’t matter.’ He was not the first Russian leader to have made such overtures. Boris Yeltsin proposed Russian membership in 1991 and the year before Mikhail Gorbachev had ventured the possibility to the then US Secretary of State, James Baker, only to be told that it was merely a ‘dream’. Rather than grasp an opportunity which 30 years later would be to our enormous advantage in dealing with China and radical Islam, the suggestion was dismissed out of hand. Instead, western countries sent to Moscow scores of free-market ‘consultants’ to oversee the privatisation and massed asset stripping of the formerly state-controlled Soviet industries which led directly to two catastrophic depressions, enormous unemployment and the creation of a semi-criminal or simply criminal oligarchic elite. No wonder that by the end of the 1990s the notion of ‘western democracy’ was viewed by the general population with scorn verging on loathing: a superpower reduced to impotence and penury. It is not difficult to see how the appetite for Vladimir Putin was fostered. Remarkably, even the Soviet Union, during the most fraught early moments of the Cold War, had asked to be allowed to join Nato. A year after the death of Stalin and a few months after the sidelining of Malenkov, the USSR’s minister for foreign affairs, Vyacheslav Molotov, proposed that his country join an alliance for the collective security of Europe on the grounds that it would be of ‘cardinal importance for the promotion of universal peace’. Molotov’s biographer, Geoffrey Roberts, observed: ‘In May 1954 the western powers rejected the Soviet proposal to join Nato on grounds that the USSR’s membership of the organisation would be incompatible with its democratic and So at least four Russian leaders have implored the West to let them into this gilded club and each time they were contemptuously brushed off. But then this has been the history of Russia’s relations with the West. At various times throughout the past 800 years Russia has attempted to ingratiate itself with the West, most notably of course during the reign of Peter the Great, who even forced courtiers to shave off their Russian beards, wear European-style clothing and speak French in the hope that this might impress upon visiting westerners how civilised they were. But on every occasion the Russians have tried this cosying up they have been met with either pronounced sniggering or malevolent opportunism from the rest of Europe. What usually follows is a period of revanchism, in which subsequent leaders retreat into the comparative comfort of Russia’s roots in Asia, its Slavicness, its difference to the West, out of dismay or pique. St Petersburg itself was renamed Petrograd in 1914 because the old name sounded too western and had the whiff of Germany about it. Vladimir Putin comes from the city and however autocratic and authoritarian his regime, he is — or was chances to neutralise Russia’s potential threat. They have all been passed up. Rod Liddle https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/we-blew-our-chance-to-befriend-putin Wow..a sensible and insightful article from your professor Liddle. But Putin of course didn't understand the depravity of the US's global hegemony ambitions. No room for another  prosperous, equally well-armed nuclear nation, in that ambition.

The depravity of Uncle's ambition is shown most clearly in Afghanistan. Unlike Putin, the US doesn't have the ambition to be an empire. It has never wanted this.

In Syria, in the Ukraine, even in Venezuela - Putin has shown that he does.

But do you know? The world is now nostalgic for the kind of global hegemony the US offers. Not the neocon military hubris of Bush/Rumsfeld or the Washington Consensus corporate theism of Bush Snr/Clinton, but the Wilsonian consensus tradition. The UN, NATO, the Marshall Plan. Ich bin ein Berliner. A peaceful, stable global order, the kind exemplified by the EU, with or without Britain and the US. A moderate, tamed global order: bureaucratic, a little dull, but with territorial integrity and a stable rule of law.

Far from perfect, that global order helped to keep so many rivalries in check. The USSR, of course, was once one part of that order, but it was held back by its own weight, its bloated inefficiency, and ultimately, nationalist splintering. Putin can't possibly restore it.

The US never wanted an empire, but as recent events have shown, we need Uncle at the table. WWI, WWII, the Cold War, and now.

Come back, America. Forgiven.

Bobby. wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 6:16pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 5:56pm: thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 5:29pm: Karnal wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 3:37pm: Putin tried to join NATO? After he's spent the past decade launching cyber and military attacks against any Eastern European country who even talks to NATO? No.... in 1990, soon after democracy was restored in Russia. Putin put an end to that when he was installed PM and ran for Prez. He was only put in to pardon Yeltsin. Putin spent the rest of that decade organising false flag bomb attacks on his own civilians and killing Chechens. There was a brief moment of self-serving War On Terror lip-service to the US in 2001, and its been downhill ever since. Russia has long paid back its IMF loans. The threat to Russia now is internal. Russia stagnates economically because of rampant corruption - the skim. Putin can't change course because to cede any power whatsoever would see him behind bars, or worse. Putin has to stay in the game to save his own skin - the fate articulated by Saddam during his trial, the same fate felt by Mubarrak and Gaddafi. Apparently Putin played a tape of Gaddafi's killing over and over again. The Arab Spring taught Putin a lesson he would never forget. He had a choice: be nice, reform and go the way of the West, or become the meanest, hardest, richest cunt in the world. You know which way he went, everybody knows. But Putin was rotten from the beginning, as as the old Russian saying about rotting fish heads goes. Everybody knows. But those sanctions will bite hard. Russia will run out of money and then what happens? He might decide to invade all the previous Soviet countries - that's what Hitler did too when he ran out of money - he plundered other countries.

The UK's plan is to sanction the oligarchs, not the economy. Europe can't sanction Russia anyway - it needs the gas. You hit Putin's backers, freeze their foreign bank accounts. Before long, they demand meetings with Putin, threatening their media and corporate support.

It's not perfect, but you need to hit the oligarchs like an organised crime outfit, which they are, but one in control of a state. You're right, targeting the Russian people will have the opposite effect.

Karnal wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 6:42pm:

The UK's plan is to sanction the oligarchs, not the economy. Europe can't sanction Russia anyway - it needs the gas. You hit Putin's backers, freeze their foreign bank accounts. Before long, they demand meetings with Putin, threatening their media and corporate support. It's not perfect, but you need to hit the oligarchs like an organised crime outfit, which they are, but one in control of a state. You're right, targeting the Russian people will have the opposite effect.

My point is that the sanctions may have the opposite effect -
they will turn Putin into another Hitler.

Bobby. wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 6:59pm:

My point is that the sanctions may have the opposite effect - they will turn Putin into another Hitler.

Too late, that happened over a decade ago.

Ayn Marx wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 7:05pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 6:59pm: My point is that the sanctions may have the opposite effect - they will turn Putin into another Hitler. Too late, that happened over a decade ago.

:o

Frank wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2022 at 6:47pm:

"They see America in retreat and no other country or collection of countries with strength and goodwill sufficient to be the guardian of peace with freedom. For all of us as individuals and for each of our countries, the challenge is to prove them wrong". Tony Abbott was the 28th Australian prime minister. This is an edited extract of his speech on Monday to the Danube Institute in Budapest. https://danubeinstitute.hu/

The US lost the right to claim "guardian of peace with freedom" with its illegal invasion of Iraq, on false WMD intelligence.   

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 7:27pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 22nd, 2022 at 6:47pm: "They see America in retreat and no other country or collection of countries with strength and goodwill sufficient to be the guardian of peace with freedom. For all of us as individuals and for each of our countries, the challenge is to prove them wrong". Tony Abbott was the 28th Australian prime minister. This is an edited extract of his speech on Monday to the Danube Institute in Budapest. https://danubeinstitute.hu/ The US lost the right to claim "guardian of peace with freedom" with its illegal invasion of Iraq, on false WMD intelligence.

In some ways the Yanks are hypocrites -
without United Nations voting in favor  -
they invaded:
Grenada, Panama, Afghanistan and Iraq in 2003.

So who are they to tell Putin what to do?
The Yanks have led by their own example -
they invade anyone if they they want to
and now they complain about Russia.  :-?

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 7:27pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 22nd, 2022 at 6:47pm: "They see America in retreat and no other country or collection of countries with strength and goodwill sufficient to be the guardian of peace with freedom. For all of us as individuals and for each of our countries, the challenge is to prove them wrong". Tony Abbott was the 28th Australian prime minister. This is an edited extract of his speech on Monday to the Danube Institute in Budapest. https://danubeinstitute.hu/ The US lost the right to claim "guardian of peace with freedom" with its illegal invasion of Iraq, on false WMD intelligence.

Fcck off, Chinese Goebbels.  Just Fcck off.




United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441 is a United Nations Security Council resolution adopted unanimously by the United Nations Security Council on 8 November 2002, offering Iraq under Saddam Hussein "a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations" that had been set out in several previous resolutions (Resolutions 660, 661, 678, 686, 687, 688, 707, 715, 986, and 1284).[1] It provided a justification for what was subsequently termed the US invasion of Iraq.[2]

Resolution 1441 stated that Iraq was in material breach of the ceasefire terms presented under the terms of Resolution 687. Iraq's breaches related not only to weapons of mass destruction (WMD), but also the known construction of prohibited types of missiles, the purchase and import of prohibited armaments, and the continuing refusal of Iraq to compensate Kuwait for the widespread looting conducted by its troops during the 1990–1991 invasion and occupation. It also stated that "...false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted by Iraq pursuant to this resolution and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with, and cooperate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq's obligations."

Karnal wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 6:34pm:

Come back, America. Forgiven.

At least you are prepared to let China have Taiwan (iirc), which suggests you recognize some limits to US global hegemony, in a multi-polar MAD world lacking a real international rules-based system. 

Ayn Marx wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 7:05pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 6:59pm: My point is that the sanctions may have the opposite effect - they will turn Putin into another Hitler. Too late, that happened over a decade ago.

Actually, Hitler was reportedly quite nice to his own people. His personal assistant said Hitler was the nicest boss he'd ever had. He knew everybody's names, their kids, gave birthday presents, used praise - loved animals.

Putin, on the other hand, is reported to be a cold, paranoid, over-controlling micro-manager. He trusts no one, looks at everybody sideways. His handshake is like holding a struggling fish.

Hitler only hated people he didn't know. Putin hates himself.

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 7:39pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 6:34pm: Come back, America. Forgiven. At least you are prepared to let China have Taiwan (iirc), which suggests you recognize some limits to US global hegemony, in a multi-polar MAD world lacking a real international rules-based system.

Pure Pacific pragmatism. I dont think China should take Taiwan. I just think they have a stronger claim there than Tibet, where they have no right to be whatsoever.

America, you'll notice, has left the only two colonies they ever had, Cuba and the Philippines.

All the rest - Guam, Hawaii, Puerto Rico like to live in America.

China can never say that about the original inhabitants of Tibet, Taiwan or Xinjiang.

https://www.todayonline.com/world/ukraine-starts-drafting-reservists-aged-18-60-after-presidents-order-1824746


Ukraine starts drafting reservists aged 18-60
after president's order.

https://media.gab.com/system/preview_cards/images/022/985/030/original/4eecb2ecbdef08c6.jpeg

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy meets with leaders of parliament fractions and groups in Kyiv, Ukraine February 22, 2022. Ukrainian Presidential Press Service/Handout via REUTERS



KYIV : Ukraine on Wednesday has started conscripting reservists aged 18-60 following a decree by President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, the armed forces said in a statement.

The maximum service period is one year.

Zelenskiy on Tuesday said he was introducing the conscription of reservists but ruled out a general mobilisation after Russia announced it was moving troops into eastern Ukraine.

Breaking News from Ukraine

https://youtu.be/okksW3kssQQ

Oh dear… petrol prices already $2.07 in some outter Melbourne suburbs! Already taking advantage!
We filled up to the rafters today at $1.69 (even though I think that’s way too much)
China? Bet they are holding back watching this war emerge… while certain countries place sanctions against Russia… and then China will do a king hit from behind to those countries (including Australia) … what’s in store ?

I’ve noticed… food prices have escalated!
I see shoppers standing aside intensely checking their dockets…. I mean… I have 2 little bags of shopping that cost over $60 and that’s with many so called half price specials!
Now it will get worse because… it’s a ripple effect… high fuel prices… effect transportation/delivery costs…
And I’m already annoyed at Oz Post with their ever increasing parcel postage costs!

First we have lockdowns to break many businesses and virtually put us in home jail…
I actually thought at New Year Eve…. I wondered what nasty crap there is in store for us all once we felt some freedom from covid restrictions.
Just as people feel the joy of bouncing back….

Starting to think of that cute electric car I was looking up online. To hell with oil. What happened to that guy that invented a car that could run on water?

I heard a whisper that we may head into a recession.
Tip of iceberg stuff… reserve banks been advised to hold off with any interest rates hike which was to happen in the latter part of this year…3 lots of rises up to .75% interest rate.
Maybe it might signal end of cheap money?
I recall the 90s and so many mortgagee auctions….and I’m stunned (even as a former real estate investor) of how much people are paying to have a home…
Sometimes going at least $200k over the reserve!
It’s a pattern… I’ve seen this before. Panic buying.
That’s what happens when one gets older… we see this pattern of wash, rinse, repeat.
Can anyone remember last time we lived a year of an ordinary peaceful life with no hassles from governments/leaders to unrest us?
There’s another ugly side to rentals/home losses via divorce etc… more people are becoming homeless and sleeping in their cars.
It’s a silent epidemic?

Time to learn this song:

National Anthem of USSR

87,798,041 views
May 5, 2008


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06jlgpMtQs

https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/099/602/818/original/41016a90d3d5bb80.png

Karnal wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 12:54pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 22nd, 2022 at 10:26pm: Release The Germans. Release the Kurds. It may come as some surprise, Mistie, but before the fall of Kabul, your Dear Leader was caving all over the globe. The Turks, the Saudis, Kim, Putin, no one was left with any illusions as to where he stood. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. I don't see why it would be Russia. We'll have to wait and see what happens. It's now left to Sleepy Joe to do what Dear Leader couldnt bring himself to do: shirt-front Putin. You bet I am, you bet I will. Russia, if you're listening...

who's dear leader?

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 10:05pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 12:54pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 22nd, 2022 at 10:26pm: Release The Germans. Release the Kurds. It may come as some surprise, Mistie, but before the fall of Kabul, your Dear Leader was caving all over the globe. The Turks, the Saudis, Kim, Putin, no one was left with any illusions as to where he stood. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. I don't see why it would be Russia. We'll have to wait and see what happens. It's now left to Sleepy Joe to do what Dear Leader couldnt bring himself to do: shirt-front Putin. You bet I am, you bet I will. Russia, if you're listening... who's dear leader?

Domestos to Morning Mist, Domestos to Morning Mist, Domestos reporting for duty, over.

Mistie here, Domestos. At ease. Identify PPE status, over.

Roger that, Mistie, receiving you loud and clear. Mask on, lungs cleansed and sanitised. Ready for the leftards. Repeat...

Got you, Domestos, good to hear you following the federal safety mandate and applying the correct disinfecting agent. Dear Leader was clear on the protocols. Over.

Roger, Mistie. Number done on the lungs, almost like a cleansing. Sanitised and cleansed, over.

Got you, soldier, you followed Dear Leader's advice and applied said solvents to external surface areas. Repeat instructions, over.

Repeating instructions, Mistie. Cleansing solvents applied directly to the lungs by way of swallowing, according to executive order. Over.

I don't copy you there, son, I may be misreading you. Did you catch the subsequent memo? Over.

Negative, Mistie. Which memo is that?

The one informing it was just a joke. You're not supposed to drink it. Over.

....

Sorry, Domestos, repeat. I didn't catch you. Repeat yourself, soldier.

...

You're breaking up, Domestos. Do you copy?

...

Goddamn, Domestos, identify location, I'm coming over.

Mild west

---

Not invading - just staking out the Sudetenland area that should be handed over.... one bit at a time.... like industrial relations here - one side - the big boys - set about creating a problem, blame the other side for it because they refuse to give in to bullying - and then use that as the excuse to take by force.

"..... listen, Assholovich - I tried to be reasonable with you about your handing over your territory on my demand - since you won't be reasonable I'm gonna have to take it - and it's YOUR fault!!"

Meanwhile Old White Joe totters up to the podium to make a... what was it... something... a speech... about what now... oh yes - those darned Russians!!


"Mr President - we need a decision NOW on releasing the nuke subs to retaliate if fired upon...."

"Nuke subs?  I didn't know Subway made those... can I have two?  We can talk about..... um.... that other thing... after lunch..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_6ZM7olA1U

"If you’ve been watching the news, you know that Putin is having a border dispute with a nation called Ukraine. Now, the main thing to know about Ukraine for our purposes is that its leaders once sent millions of dollars to Joe Biden’s family,” Tucker said. “Not surprisingly, Ukraine is now one of Biden’s favorite countries. Biden has pledged to defend Ukraine’s borders even as he opens our borders to the world. That’s how it works. Invading America is called equity. Invading Ukraine is a war crime.”
https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2022/02/23/watch-nancy-pelosi-confuses-ukraine-and-hungary-in-foreign-policy-press-conference/

Bobby. wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 9:10pm:

https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/099/602/818/original/41016a90d3d5bb80.png

Priceless.

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 10:37am:

"If you’ve been watching the news, you know that Putin is having a border dispute with a nation called Ukraine. Now, the main thing to know about Ukraine for our purposes is that its leaders once sent millions of dollars to Joe Biden’s family,” Tucker said. “Not surprisingly, Ukraine is now one of Biden’s favorite countries. Biden has pledged to defend Ukraine’s borders even as he opens our borders to the world. That’s how it works. Invading America is called equity. Invading Ukraine is a war crime.” https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2022/02/23/watch-nancy-pelosi-confuses-ukraine-and-hungary-in-foreign-policy-press-conference/

Oh, I see. The Ukraine once gave the Biden family a few million, eh? That explains that then.

Strange. How come it wasn't in Biden's tax returns, old boy? I'm curious.

You?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 12:04pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 18th, 2022 at 11:52am: Putin is: A Posturing to warn Sweden, Finland and Ukraine B Planning to commit minor incursions into Ukraine and ultimately withdraw C Planning a partial invasion and possible annexation of eastern Ukraine D Planning a full invasion of Ukraine Putin: 'Please to lock in B, Eddie Evrywareavich'. Putin: 'Or maybe C'... Putin: 'Thinking, could be D'. Putin: "OK, Eddie Evrywareavich... Here is new rule of game. I start with 'A', then go to 'B' with Russian characteristics - 'B' and half - I recognise independence of east Ukraine, then go in as peacekeeper. I check see if good enough. If no, I move to 'C'."

Putin: "OK, B and half is start, so now lock in 'D'."

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 9:03am:

Mild west

In fact Morons, Russia is not occupying Ukraine, but liberating it from the hypocrite barbaric Anglo-Western  occupation, just as China did with Hong Kong.
:)

Sanctions are a waste of time. They will do nothing to stop Putin and could damage the world economy for nothing. There will not be a full-on war either. The sooner the world admits that The Ukraine will become part of Russia again, the better.

Mind you, the "domino effect" is a concern. China will most likely take back Taiwan too.

Such is life in the nuclear non-war age.   :-/

As for the argument that Russia isn't keen on having NATO members on its doorstep ... Well, Poland will be a new border country to the larger Russia once it absorbs The Ukraine.    ::)

I'm sure Putin has plans to reinstate the "USSR". He's old-school.   :D

Karnal wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 7:58pm:

Ayn Marx wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 7:05pm: Bobby. wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 6:59pm: My point is that the sanctions may have the opposite effect - they will turn Putin into another Hitler. Too late, that happened over a decade ago. Actually, Hitler was reportedly quite nice to his own people. His personal assistant said Hitler was the nicest boss he'd ever had. He knew everybody's names, their kids, gave birthday presents, used praise - loved animals. Putin, on the other hand, is reported to be a cold, paranoid, over-controlling micro-manager. He trusts no one, looks at everybody sideways. His handshake is like holding a struggling fish. Hitler only hated people he didn't know. Putin hates himself.

Yep Biden doesn't hate anyone because he doesn't know he's alive.
;D

PoopyPants Biden trends on social media after rumours emerge of Joe Biden
suffering a ‘bathroom accident’ at the Vatican when his wife forgot to give him nappies.
https://www.opindia.com/2021/10/poopypantsbiden-trend-twitter-rumours-joe-biden-suffering-bathroom-accident-vatican/

athos wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 11:52am:

Frank wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 9:03am: Mild west In fact Morons, Russia is not occupying Ukraine, but liberating it from the hypocrite barbaric Anglo-Western  occupation, just as China did with Hong Kong. :)

Are you a communist?

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 10:37am:

"If you’ve been watching the news, you know that Putin is having a border dispute with a nation called Ukraine. Now, the main thing to know about Ukraine for our purposes is that its leaders once sent millions of dollars to Joe Biden’s family,” Tucker said. “Not surprisingly, Ukraine is now one of Biden’s favorite countries. Biden has pledged to defend Ukraine’s borders even as he opens our borders to the world. That’s how it works. Invading America is called equity. Invading Ukraine is a war crime.” https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2022/02/23/watch-nancy-pelosi-confuses-ukraine-and-hungary-in-foreign-policy-press-conference/

Hypocrites what about Invasion of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yugoslavia, etc, wasn't it a war crime?
;D

Bobby. wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 12:07pm:

athos wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 11:52am: Frank wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 9:03am: Mild west In fact Morons, Russia is not occupying Ukraine, but liberating it from the hypocrite barbaric Anglo-Western  occupation, just as China did with Hong Kong. :) Are you a communist?

Are you an ASIO bot who works for the centrelink dole?
;D

athos wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 12:17pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 12:07pm: athos wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 11:52am: Frank wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 9:03am: Mild west In fact Morons, Russia is not occupying Ukraine, but liberating it from the hypocrite barbaric Anglo-Western  occupation, just as China did with Hong Kong. :) Are you a communist? Are you an ASIO bot who works for the centrelink dole? ;D

I'm a patriot.
Are you a communist?

Jump to 1 minute 37 seconds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZgE_sUrXFY

athos wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 11:52am:

Frank wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 9:03am: Mild west In fact Morons, Russia is not occupying Ukraine, but liberating it from the hypocrite barbaric Anglo-Western  occupation, just as China did with Hong Kong. :)

Hope you’re being well rewarded by Moscow for dumping your absurd delusions here. Now pay attention. NOBODY TAKES A SINGLE WORD YOU VOMIT HERE SERIOUSLY. MAYBE IF TRUMP READ YOUR TRIPE HE’D COME OVER ALL EXCITED AT THE IDEA OF BEING SO CLOSE TO DEAR LEADER VLAD.

---

Bobby. wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 12:26pm:

athos wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 12:17pm: Bobby. wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 12:07pm: athos wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 11:52am: Frank wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 9:03am: Mild west In fact Morons, Russia is not occupying Ukraine, but liberating it from the hypocrite barbaric Anglo-Western  occupation, just as China did with Hong Kong. :) Are you a communist? Are you an ASIO bot who works for the centrelink dole? ;D I'm a patriot. Are you a communist? Jump to 1 minute 37 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZgE_sUrXFY

You mean a British patriot.
;D

Ayn Marx wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 12:41pm:

athos wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 11:52am: Frank wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 9:03am: Mild west In fact Morons, Russia is not occupying Ukraine, but liberating it from the hypocrite barbaric Anglo-Western  occupation, just as China did with Hong Kong. :) Hope you’re being well rewarded by Moscow for dumping your absurd delusions here. Now pay attention. NOBODY TAKES A SINGLE WORD YOU VOMIT HERE SERIOUSLY. MAYBE IF TRUMP READ YOUR TRIPE HE’D COME OVER ALL EXCITED AT THE IDEA OF BEING SO CLOSE TO DEAR LEADER VLAD.

;D

athos wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 11:52am:

Frank wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 9:03am: Mild west In fact Morons, Russia is not occupying Ukraine, but liberating it from the hypocrite barbaric Anglo-Western  occupation, just as China did with Hong Kong. :)

You are Stalinist.

The war has started:

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-23-22/index.html


8 min ago

BREAKING: Putin announces a "special military operation" in Donbas

From CNN's Nathan Hodge in Moscow

Russian President Vladimir Putin says his troops will take action in the separatist-held region of Ukraine he declared independent this week.

Bobby. wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 1:14pm:

The war has started: https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-23-22/index.html 8 min ago BREAKING: Putin announces a "special military operation" in Donbas From CNN's Nathan Hodge in Moscow Russian President Vladimir Putin says his troops will take action in the separatist-held region of Ukraine he declared independent this week.

CNN Fake news give us a break.
;D

athos wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 11:52am:

Frank wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 9:03am: Mild west In fact Morons, Russia is not occupying Ukraine, but liberating it from the hypocrite barbaric Anglo-Western  occupation, just as China did with Hong Kong. :)

Here you go, old boy. Now Athos, devout Stalinist, is saying it.

Still agree with Tucker?

Biden’s January 19 press conference drew pity from the global press, with verbal gaffes unlike anything that has escaped the mouth of an American president before. He predicted a Russian military move into Ukraine: "My guess is he will move in. He has to do something." Russia will be "held accountable if it invades," Biden said, but added, "It depends on what it does. It's one thing if it's a minor incursion and we end up having to fight about what to do and not do, et cetera."

A baffled reporter asked if he was giving Russia permission for a “minor incursion,” and Biden dug himself in deeper: "If it's something significantly short of a significant invasion or not even significant — major military forces coming in...for example, it's one thing to determine that if they continue to use cyber efforts, we can respond the same way, with cyber…There are differences in NATO as to what countries are willing to do, depending on what happens. The degree to which they are able to go."

Let's go Brandon.

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 1:57pm:

Biden’s January 19 press conference drew pity from the global press, with verbal gaffes unlike anything that has escaped the mouth of an American president before. He predicted a Russian military move into Ukraine: "My guess is he will move in. He has to do something." Russia will be "held accountable if it invades," Biden said, but added, "It depends on what it does. It's one thing if it's a minor incursion and we end up having to fight about what to do and not do, et cetera." A baffled reporter asked if he was giving Russia permission for a “minor incursion,” and Biden dug himself in deeper: "If it's something significantly short of a significant invasion or not even significant — major military forces coming in...for example, it's one thing to determine that if they continue to use cyber efforts, we can respond the same way, with cyber…There are differences in NATO as to what countries are willing to do, depending on what happens. The degree to which they are able to go."Let's go Brandon.

;D

issuevoter wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 1:06pm:

athos wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 11:52am: Frank wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 9:03am: Mild west In fact Morons, Russia is not occupying Ukraine, but liberating it from the hypocrite barbaric Anglo-Western  occupation, just as China did with Hong Kong. :) You are Stalinist.

;D

Bobby. wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 1:14pm:

The war has started: https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-news-02-23-22/index.html 8 min ago BREAKING: Putin announces a "special military operation" in Donbas From CNN's Nathan Hodge in Moscow Russian President Vladimir Putin says his troops will take action in the separatist-held region of Ukraine he declared independent this week.

Very interesting perspective in this film about Donbass snipers.
As a fisherman, I can relate to the patience needed to catch certain fish, carp especially.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH_nbsvch0g

.

---

Russia’s defence ministry said Thursday it had neutralised Ukrainian military airbases and its air defence systems, hours after Russian President Vladimir Putin launched a military offensive against his country’s neighbour.

“Military infrastructure at Ukrainian army air bases has been rendered out of action,” the defence ministry said in a statement carried by news agencies, which added that Kyiv’s air defence systems were “eliminated”. – AFP

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 4:48pm:

Russia’s defence ministry said Thursday it had neutralised Ukrainian military airbases and its air defence systems, hours after Russian President Vladimir Putin launched a military offensive against his country’s neighbour. “Military infrastructure at Ukrainian army air bases has been rendered out of action,” the defence ministry said in a statement carried by news agencies, which added that Kyiv’s air defence systems were “eliminated”. – AFP

The question is how this was achieved, if it was.

Captain Nemo wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 11:56am:

Mind you, the "domino effect" is a concern. China will most likely take back Taiwan too.

Ah the "domino effect", I remember that as the West's reason for bombing Vietnam, to prevent it turning communist. (They failed).

As for an ideological dispute between Chinese people, what business is that of yours?


Quote:

Such is life in the nuclear non-war age.   :-/

Yes...great to see wannabe Vikings on all sides forced to confront their predatory instincts, for the first time in the long, bloody history of Mankind..... :-)


Quote:

I'm sure Putin has plans to reinstate the "USSR". He's old-school.   :D

I don't think so. I reckon he would be satisfied with re-incorporating the birthplace of Russia (based on Kiev) back into Russia.

wombatwoody wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 4:18pm:

.

Fake news media.
Russia only recognized breakaway republics.
Nothing else is happening. Russian soldiers are not there.
:)

Still something is happening

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F-WF1wtrKk

Captain Nemo wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 11:56am:

Sanctions are a waste of time. They will do nothing to stop Putin and could damage the world economy for nothing. There will not be a full-on war either. The sooner the world admits that The Ukraine will become part of Russia again, the better. Mind you, the "domino effect" is a concern. China will most likely take back Taiwan too. Such is life in the nuclear non-war age.   :-/ As for the argument that Russia isn't keen on having NATO members on its doorstep ... Well, Poland will be a new border country to the larger Russia once it absorbs The Ukraine.    ::) I'm sure Putin has plans to reinstate the "USSR". He's old-school.   :D

Do not be silly. If Russia takes Ukraine, China will be more interested in bigger fish than Taiwan. In essence, China needs 48 hours to liberate Australia from British occupation. In this case, the United States and mama Britain will impose strong sanctions on China, which is the price that China is ready to pay. These sanctions will be negligible compared to obtaining the Australian natural resources that China so desperately needs.

:)

athos wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 6:32pm:

Captain Nemo wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 11:56am: Sanctions are a waste of time. They will do nothing to stop Putin and could damage the world economy for nothing. There will not be a full-on war either. The sooner the world admits that The Ukraine will become part of Russia again, the better. Mind you, the "domino effect" is a concern. China will most likely take back Taiwan too. Such is life in the nuclear non-war age.   :-/ As for the argument that Russia isn't keen on having NATO members on its doorstep ... Well, Poland will be a new border country to the larger Russia once it absorbs The Ukraine.    ::) I'm sure Putin has plans to reinstate the "USSR". He's old-school.   :D Do not be silly. If Russia takes Ukraine, China will be more interested in bigger fish than Taiwan. In essence, China needs 48 hours to liberate Australia from British occupation. In this case, the United States and mama Britain will impose strong sanctions on China, which is the price that China is ready to pay. These sanctions will be negligible compared to obtaining the Australian natural resources that China so desperately needs. :)

The Chinese look upon Australia with envious eyes and

slowly and surely they draw their plans against us.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/explosions-ukraine-putin-orders-russia-to-attack-034200090.html?utm_source=Marketing&utm_medium=EDM&utm_campaign=EDM&utm_term=News&ncid=newsletter_edm_uf9cw7lph94

"Explosions in Ukraine as Putin orders Russia to attack

Russian President Vladimir Putin has officially ordered military action in Ukraine.

Mr Putin called on the Ukrainian army to "lay down" its arms on Thursday morning (local time).

He accused the US and its allies of ignoring Russia’s demand to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO and offer Moscow security guarantees.

He said the Russian military operation aims to ensure a “demilitarisation” of Ukraine.

Mr Putin said that all Ukrainian servicemen who lay down arms will be able to safely leave the zone of combat.

“I have a few words for those who could feel tempted to interfere with ongoing developments: whoever tries to impede us, let alone create threats for our country and its people must know that the Russian response will be immediate and lead to the consequences you have never seen in history,” he said.

UN chief Antonio Guterres told Mr Putin to stop his troops from attacking Ukraine.

"In the name of humanity, bring your troops back to Russia," he said.

"In the name of humanity, do not allow to start, in Europe, what could be the worst war since the beginning of the century."

“The people of Ukraine and the government of Ukraine want peace,” President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said in an emotional overnight address, speaking in Russian in a direct appeal to Russian citizens.

“But if we come under attack, if we face an attempt to take away our country, our freedom, our lives and lives of our children, we will defend ourselves. When you attack us, you will see our faces, not our backs.”

It comes just hours after Russian separatists in Ukraine's city of Donetsk asked the Kremlin for assistance.

Hours after Russian-backed forces issued their plea, at least five explosions were heard in Donetsk, a Reuters witness said. Four military trucks were seen heading to the scene."

This guy is really scared.
Even all his professional acting talent can't hide it. I think he will soon be back in Israel, from where he actually came from.
:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwb9l5K9xr4

athos wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 7:01pm:

This guy is really scared. Even all his professional acting talent can't hide it. I think he will soon be back in Israel, from where he actually came from. :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwb9l5K9xr4

How does it feel living under a 1 party dictatorship?

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 6:59pm:

https://au.news.yahoo.com/explosions-ukraine-putin-orders-russia-to-attack-034200090.html?utm_source=Marketing&utm_medium=EDM&utm_campaign=EDM&utm_term=News&ncid=newsletter_edm_uf9cw7lph94 "Explosions in Ukraine as Putin orders Russia to attack Russian President Vladimir Putin has officially ordered military action in Ukraine. Mr Putin called on the Ukrainian army to "lay down" its arms on Thursday morning (local time). He accused the US and its allies of ignoring Russia’s demand to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO and offer Moscow security guarantees. He said the Russian military operation aims to ensure a “demilitarisation” of Ukraine. Mr Putin said that all Ukrainian servicemen who lay down arms will be able to safely leave the zone of combat. “I have a few words for those who could feel tempted to interfere with ongoing developments: whoever tries to impede us, let alone create threats for our country and its people must know that the Russian response will be immediate and lead to the consequences you have never seen in history,” he said. UN chief Antonio Guterres told Mr Putin to stop his troops from attacking Ukraine. "In the name of humanity, bring your troops back to Russia," he said. "In the name of humanity, do not allow to start, in Europe, what could be the worst war since the beginning of the century." “The people of Ukraine and the government of Ukraine want peace,” President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said in an emotional overnight address, speaking in Russian in a direct appeal to Russian citizens. “But if we come under attack, if we face an attempt to take away our country, our freedom, our lives and lives of our children, we will defend ourselves. When you attack us, you will see our faces, not our backs.” It comes just hours after Russian separatists in Ukraine's city of Donetsk asked the Kremlin for assistance. Hours after Russian-backed forces issued their plea, at least five explosions were heard in Donetsk, a Reuters witness said. Four military trucks were seen heading to the scene."

Putin has already told those hypocrites who started the WAR
in Europe 20 years ago when NATO bombed Yugoslavia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUesF6V-Apo

Jim Lahey wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 7:03pm:

athos wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 7:01pm: This guy is really scared. Even all his professional acting talent can't hide it. I think he will soon be back in Israel, from where he actually came from. :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwb9l5K9xr4 How does it feel living under a 1 party dictatorship?

Much better than under 2 party cartel dictatorship.
;D

athos wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 7:16pm:

Jim Lahey wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 7:03pm: athos wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 7:01pm: This guy is really scared. Even all his professional acting talent can't hide it. I think he will soon be back in Israel, from where he actually came from. :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwb9l5K9xr4 How does it feel living under a 1 party dictatorship? Much better than under 2 party cartel dictatorship. ;D

are you jealous that we can speak out against the government without fear of begin sent to a concentration camp?

Jim Lahey wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 7:18pm:

athos wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 7:16pm: Jim Lahey wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 7:03pm: athos wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 7:01pm: This guy is really scared. Even all his professional acting talent can't hide it. I think he will soon be back in Israel, from where he actually came from. :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwb9l5K9xr4 How does it feel living under a 1 party dictatorship? Much better than under 2 party cartel dictatorship. ;D are you jealous that we can speak out against the government without fear of begin sent to a concentration camp?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh9p18O4_Wc

This is very impressive.
Putin: "Yes or no?" 
Sergey: "No."
Putin: "So, Sergey,  No or Yes?"
Sergey: "Oh, Yes, Yes, Yes!!!"
Putin: "Okay. Thanks."  ;D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-u8EoWcI

Putin's face is getting fat.

Czech President Miloš Zeman has just finished an address to the nation.
"Mistakes made, whether purported or real, such as the bombardment of Yugoslavia or going into Iraq, cannot be a justification for the mistakes of others."

https://twitter.com/dougiegyro/status/1496789938309943304?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1496789938309943304%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 8:26pm:

Putin's face is getting fat.

And you are getting stupid.
;D

athos wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 8:43pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 8:26pm: Putin's face is getting fat. And you are getting stupid. ;D

Nope.

Karnal wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2022 at 10:59pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 10:05pm: Karnal wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 12:54pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 22nd, 2022 at 10:26pm: Release The Germans. Release the Kurds. It may come as some surprise, Mistie, but before the fall of Kabul, your Dear Leader was caving all over the globe. The Turks, the Saudis, Kim, Putin, no one was left with any illusions as to where he stood. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. I don't see why it would be Russia. We'll have to wait and see what happens. It's now left to Sleepy Joe to do what Dear Leader couldnt bring himself to do: shirt-front Putin. You bet I am, you bet I will. Russia, if you're listening... who's dear leader? Domestos to Morning Mist, Domestos to Morning Mist, Domestos reporting for duty, over. Mistie here, Domestos. At ease. Identify PPE status, over. Roger that, Mistie, receiving you loud and clear. Mask on, lungs cleansed and sanitised. Ready for the leftards. Repeat... Got you, Domestos, good to hear you following the federal safety mandate and applying the correct disinfecting agent. Dear Leader was clear on the protocols. Over. Roger, Mistie. Number done on the lungs, almost like a cleansing. Sanitised and cleansed, over. Got you, soldier, you followed Dear Leader's advice and applied said solvents to external surface areas. Repeat instructions, over. Repeating instructions, Mistie. Cleansing solvents applied directly to the lungs by way of swallowing, according to executive order. Over. I don't copy you there, son, I may be misreading you. Did you catch the subsequent memo? Over. Negative, Mistie. Which memo is that? The one informing it was just a joke. You're not supposed to drink it. Over. .... Sorry, Domestos, repeat. I didn't catch you. Repeat yourself, soldier. ... You're breaking up, Domestos. Do you copy? ... Goddamn, Domestos, identify location, I'm coming over.

There's a difference between being witty and just plain bizarre. You fall into the latter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S90VcX4J0Mc

athos wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 9:00pm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S90VcX4J0Mc

Hmm. this guy has a lot of sensible things to say about Russia and Ukraine, but his assertion the mainstream Oz press supports the CCP is hilarious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3GW5tdsrGc

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 8:59pm:

Karnal wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 10:59pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 10:05pm: Karnal wrote on Feb 23rd, 2022 at 12:54pm: Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Feb 22nd, 2022 at 10:26pm: Release The Germans. Release the Kurds. It may come as some surprise, Mistie, but before the fall of Kabul, your Dear Leader was caving all over the globe. The Turks, the Saudis, Kim, Putin, no one was left with any illusions as to where he stood. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. I don't see why it would be Russia. We'll have to wait and see what happens. It's now left to Sleepy Joe to do what Dear Leader couldnt bring himself to do: shirt-front Putin. You bet I am, you bet I will. Russia, if you're listening... who's dear leader? Domestos to Morning Mist, Domestos to Morning Mist, Domestos reporting for duty, over. Mistie here, Domestos. At ease. Identify PPE status, over. Roger that, Mistie, receiving you loud and clear. Mask on, lungs cleansed and sanitised. Ready for the leftards. Repeat... Got you, Domestos, good to hear you following the federal safety mandate and applying the correct disinfecting agent. Dear Leader was clear on the protocols. Over. Roger, Mistie. Number done on the lungs, almost like a cleansing. Sanitised and cleansed, over. Got you, soldier, you followed Dear Leader's advice and applied said solvents to external surface areas. Repeat instructions, over. Repeating instructions, Mistie. Cleansing solvents applied directly to the lungs by way of swallowing, according to executive order. Over. I don't copy you there, son, I may be misreading you. Did you catch the subsequent memo? Over. Negative, Mistie. Which memo is that? The one informing it was just a joke. You're not supposed to drink it. Over. .... Sorry, Domestos, repeat. I didn't catch you. Repeat yourself, soldier. ... You're breaking up, Domestos. Do you copy? ... Goddamn, Domestos, identify location, I'm coming over. There's a difference between being witty and just plain bizarre. You fall into the latter.

"Progressives."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3GW5tdsrGc&t=28s

https://youtu.be/zrJ2AfBQfJI?t=26

Latest news from Ukraine:

Putin warns:
Any country that tries to enter the conflict on ukranian side militarily will be destroyed.

The regular Ukrainian army began massively to surrender.

The Russian army ordered the killing of all Nazi volunteers.

A warrant has been issued for President Zelenski.

85% of Ukrainian military airports were destroyed.

Russian army 15 km to Kiev.

athos wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 9:00pm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S90VcX4J0Mc

Boikov is a Sydney-born pro-Putin Russian ultranationalist who calls himself the Aussie Cossack. Perhaps unkindly, some have described the self-branded Aussie Cossack as Putin’s man in Australia if Putin knew who he was.

In 2018, told a Russian media outlet, “We have a unique opportunity to support Russia from within an enemy state.” The enemy he alluded to is Australia.

Boikov, who has more than 12,000 followers on Instagram, is unashamed about spreading a pro-Putin, pro-Russian message by lobbying politicians.

In August 2020, Russian Opposition leader Alexei Navalny was poisoned with a Novichok nerve agent and evacuated to Berlin where he recovered. Navalny accused Putin of being responsible for his poisoning, and an investigation implicated agents from the Federal Security Service (FSB) the successor to the KGB, Putin’s alma mater. He returned to Russia in January 2021 and was jailed for two and a half years in February 2021.

Protesters gathered worldwide to call for his release. In Sydney a group of a hundred or so protesters did the same and Boikov assembled a counter-protest.

“We’re here with our President Vladimir Putin,” Boikov said, pointing to a poster of Putin toted by one of the counter-protesters, supporting Vladimir Putin, supporting the President against this opposition scum.”

When asked by Four Corners journalist Sean Nicholls if he supported the idea of murdering political opponents, Boikov replied, “I wouldn’t say murdering. I would say liquidating. Murdering is a bad word.”

As the Morrison government sanctions Russia over its invasion of Ukraine, some big questions need to be put to political candidates who overtly have endorsed Putin’s conduct.

Our security agencies will be on full alert. Putin has useful idiots everywhere.

Send Greta to Moscow. She knows what to do.

athos wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 11:03pm:

Latest news from Ukraine: Putin warns: Any country that tries to enter the conflict on ukranian side militarily will be destroyed. The regular Ukrainian army began massively to surrender. The Russian army ordered the killing of all Nazi volunteers. A warrant has been issued for President Zelenski. 85% of Ukrainian military airports were destroyed. Russian army 15 km to Kiev.

Wow

athos wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 7:09pm:

Putin has already told those hypocrites who started the WAR in Europe 20 years ago when NATO bombed Yugoslavia. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUesF6V-Apo

TF has Yugoslavia got to do with Russian invasion of Ukraine?  Nobody gives a sh1t about Yugos... they have some very unusual synaptic relationships in their heads....

So Mad Putin is right to attack a sovereign neighbouring country on the flimsy basis that they are persecuting the Russians there - just like Hitler did with Czechoslovakia and the Sudeten Germans?

OH!  They requested help!  Well - that makes it all right then.....  Putin wants to de-militarise Ukraine by militarising it first with his troops... OH!  That makes it all right then....

You are a very sick puppy.  Sort of a combined Polish/Yugo style of non-thinking.... but always right or they'll kill you...

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 11:06pm:

athos wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 9:00pm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S90VcX4J0Mc Boikov is a Sydney-born pro-Putin Russian ultranationalist who calls himself the Aussie Cossack. Perhaps unkindly, some have described the self-branded Aussie Cossack as Putin’s man in Australia if Putin knew who he was. In 2018, told a Russian media outlet, “We have a unique opportunity to support Russia from within an enemy state.” The enemy he alluded to is Australia. Boikov, who has more than 12,000 followers on Instagram, is unashamed about spreading a pro-Putin, pro-Russian message by lobbying politicians. In August 2020, Russian Opposition leader Alexei Navalny was poisoned with a Novichok nerve agent and evacuated to Berlin where he recovered. Navalny accused Putin of being responsible for his poisoning, and an investigation implicated agents from the Federal Security Service (FSB) the successor to the KGB, Putin’s alma mater. He returned to Russia in January 2021 and was jailed for two and a half years in February 2021. Protesters gathered worldwide to call for his release. In Sydney a group of a hundred or so protesters did the same and Boikov assembled a counter-protest. “We’re here with our President Vladimir Putin,” Boikov said, pointing to a poster of Putin toted by one of the counter-protesters, supporting Vladimir Putin, supporting the President against this opposition scum.” When asked by Four Corners journalist Sean Nicholls if he supported the idea of murdering political opponents, Boikov replied, “I wouldn’t say murdering. I would say liquidating. Murdering is a bad word.” As the Morrison government sanctions Russia over its invasion of Ukraine, some big questions need to be put to political candidates who overtly have endorsed Putin’s conduct. Our security agencies will be on full alert. Putin has useful idiots everywhere.

Arrest him and show him the entrance to the gulag.... that'll learn him.............

Sensible things to say about Russia and Ukraine?  Such as Ukraine is invading Russia???

I see no good coming from this surge by Putin's Russia to retake its past empire...... so like Hitler it isn't even funny..........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReAkzTw8RHE

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 11:25pm:

Send Greta to Moscow. She knows what to do.

Kharkov surrenders to the Russians.
Russians entering Kiev.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1496819885539831810
:)

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 25^th, 2022 at 12:31am:

athos wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 7:09pm: Putin has already told those hypocrites who started the WAR in Europe 20 years ago when NATO bombed Yugoslavia. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUesF6V-Apo TF has Yugoslavia got to do with Russian invasion of Ukraine?  Nobody gives a sh1t about Yugos... they have some very unusual synaptic relationships in their heads.... So Mad Putin is right to attack a sovereign neighbouring country on the flimsy basis that they are persecuting the Russians there - just like Hitler did with Czechoslovakia and the Sudeten Germans? OH!  They requested help!  Well - that makes it all right then.....  Putin wants to de-militarise Ukraine by militarising it first with his troops... OH!  That makes it all right then.... You are a very sick puppy.  Sort of a combined Polish/Yugo style of non-thinking.... but always right or they'll kill you...

No brain.
If I were you, I would be worried that Australia might be next.
China is in love with Australia's natural resources.
:)

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Feb 25^th, 2022 at 12:36am:

Frank wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 11:06pm: athos wrote on Feb 24th, 2022 at 9:00pm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S90VcX4J0Mc Boikov is a Sydney-born pro-Putin Russian ultranationalist who calls himself the Aussie Cossack. Perhaps unkindly, some have described the self-branded Aussie Cossack as Putin’s man in Australia if Putin knew who he was. In 2018, told a Russian media outlet, “We have a unique opportunity to support Russia from within an enemy state.” The enemy he alluded to is Australia. Boikov, who has more than 12,000 followers on Instagram, is unashamed about spreading a pro-Putin, pro-Russian message by lobbying politicians. In August 2020, Russian Opposition leader Alexei Navalny was poisoned with a Novichok nerve agent and evacuated to Berlin where he recovered. Navalny accused Putin of being responsible for his poisoning, and an investigation implicated agents from the Federal Security Service (FSB) the successor to the KGB, Putin’s alma mater. He returned to Russia in January 2021 and was jailed for two and a half years in February 2021. Protesters gathered worldwide to call for his release. In Sydney a group of a hundred or so protesters did the same and Boikov assembled a counter-protest. “We’re here with our President Vladimir Putin,” Boikov said, pointing to a poster of Putin toted by one of the counter-protesters, supporting Vladimir Putin, supporting the President against this opposition scum.” When asked by Four Corners journalist Sean Nicholls if he supported the idea of murdering political opponents, Boikov replied, “I wouldn’t say murdering. I would say liquidating. Murdering is a bad word.” As the Morrison government sanctions Russia over its invasion of Ukraine, some big questions need to be put to political candidates who overtly have endorsed Putin’s conduct. Our security agencies will be on full alert. Putin has useful idiots everywhere. Arrest him and show him the entrance to the gulag.... that'll learn him............. Sensible things to say about Russia and Ukraine?  Such as Ukraine is invading Russia??? I see no good coming from this surge by Putin's Russia to retake its past empire...... so like Hitler it isn't even funny.......... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReAkzTw8RHE

If China and Russia liberate British colony Australia from Anglo occupation I am very sure that Aussie nonAnglo population could be happy to live in free prosperous multicultural country.

athos wrote on Feb 25^th, 2022 at 1:16am:

If China and Russia liberate British colony Australia from Anglo occupation I am very sure that Aussie nonAnglo population could be happy to live in free prosperous multicultural country.

Often I can’t decide if it’s your sloppy English expression or innate idiocy at work. I’ve now come to the conclusion it’s both.

Ayn Marx wrote on Feb 25^th, 2022 at 7:29am:

athos wrote on Feb 25th, 2022 at 1:16am: If China and Russia liberate British colony Australia from Anglo occupation I am very sure that Aussie nonAnglo population could be happy to live in free prosperous multicultural country. Often I can’t decide if it’s your sloppy English expression or innate idiocy at work. I’ve now come to the conclusion it’s both.

His handler will soon respond under the 'Athos' id and his English will improve.

athos wrote on Feb 25^th, 2022 at 1:07am:

If I were you, I would be worried that Australia might be next. China is in love with Australia's natural resources. :)

That’s been obvious for some time. Given the increasing exploration of the sub-marine landscape just outside our territorial boundaries it looks like they’ve started planning their next moves.
Glad I’m soon leaving the planet. Our species is engineering it’s painful extinction at an ever increasing pace.

athos wrote on Feb 25^th, 2022 at 1:07am:

If I were you, I would be worried that Australia might be next. China is in love with Australia's natural resources.

Very Chinese under Xi's CCP. Always threatening war if they don't get their way.

The joke being, members within the CCP will slit each other's throats before going to war with any foreign force.

Frank wrote on Feb 24^th, 2022 at 11:25pm:

Send Greta to Moscow. She knows what to do.

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4cd66626fd2cc6c3175ca3444c2024ad4479b6d477420c930266e603f269187f.jpg

And Darth 'Xi' Vader said unto the young Luke 'Trump' Skywalker
"Help me take this (Communist) mask off"
After he had thrown his Emperor 'Putin' Master off his back and into the void.

...you all know that scene. ;)

My guess is that Ukraine will turn into proxy theatres like Korea, Vietnam, and more recently Syria.   I do not think the US, UK or EU will directly declare war on Russia.   I still don’t think 200000 Russian troops is will be able to overtake the entire Ukraine, with 400000 troops and 44 million citizens.  The math just don’t add up.   At the best, I think this will settle into a prolonged but potentially very bloody war.  And the final settlement point would be similar to Korea, where Ukraine gets broken into a ‘West’ and a ‘East’ part. 

I believe, during this time, the Chinese will stay back, and hope the war will drag both Russia and the West in, and keep them there as long as possible.  That means, diplomatically keeping the conflict from reaching full war status, at the same time, not letting it settle. 

When the sanction bites, the Russian will need supplies - e.g. everyday goods, medical supplies, and this China will happily supply at a cost.  And on the other hand, it will continue to do roaring trades with major US companies.   And of course, us Aussies will continue to supply the raw material to China to enable all of that. 

The longer this conflict drags on, the weaker both the West and the Russians will be.   In which case, the Chinese can probably stand back, and if it plays the cards right, it can potentially emerge as the global power soon. 

Naw, just drop a nuke or two.

The world is over populated and its needs a reset. Kill off about 96% of life and see what happens.

I myself am a little disappointed that a nuke hasn't already been fired

tickleandrose wrote on Feb 25^th, 2022 at 8:15am:

My guess is that Ukraine will turn into proxy theatres like Korea, Vietnam, and more recently Syria.   I do not think the US, UK or EU will directly declare war on Russia.   I still don’t think 200000 Russian troops is will be able to overtake the entire Ukraine, with 400000 troops and 44 million citizens.  The math just don’t add up.   At the best, I think this will settle into a prolonged but potentially very bloody war.  And the final settlement point would be similar to Korea, where Ukraine gets broken into a ‘West’ and a ‘East’ part.  I believe, during this time, the Chinese will stay back, and hope the war will drag both Russia and the West in, and keep them there as long as possible.  That means, diplomatically keeping the conflict from reaching full war status, at the same time, not letting it settle.  When the sanction bites, the Russian will need supplies - e.g. everyday goods, medical supplies, and this China will happily supply at a cost.  And on the other hand, it will continue to do roaring trades with major US companies.   And of course, us Aussies will continue to supply the raw material to China to enable all of that.  The longer this conflict drags on, the weaker both the West and the Russians will be.   In which case, the Chinese can probably stand back, and if it plays the cards right, it can potentially emerge as the global power soon.

If it turns into a protracted thing, USA/EU will keep Ukrain well supplied with Javelin/Stingers to inflict as much pain as possible.

tickleandrose wrote on Feb 25^th, 2022 at 8:15am:

My guess is that Ukraine will turn into proxy theatres like Korea, Vietnam, and more recently Syria.   I do not think the US, UK or EU will directly declare war on Russia.   I still don’t think 200000 Russian troops is will be able to overtake the entire Ukraine, with 400000 troops and 44 million citizens.  The math just don’t add up.   At the best, I think this will settle into a prolonged but potentially very bloody war.  And the final settlement point would be similar to Korea, where Ukraine gets broken into a ‘West’ and a ‘East’ part.  I believe, during this time, the Chinese will stay back, and hope the war will drag both Russia and the West in, and keep them there as long as possible.  That means, diplomatically keeping the conflict from reaching full war status, at the same time, not letting it settle.  When the sanction bites, the Russian will need supplies - e.g. everyday goods, medical supplies, and this China will happily supply at a cost.  And on the other hand, it will continue to do roaring trades with major US companies.   And of course, us Aussies will continue to supply the raw material to China to enable all of that.  The longer this conflict drags on, the weaker both the West and the Russians will be.   In which case, the Chinese can probably stand back, and if it plays the cards right, it can potentially emerge as the global power soon.

The world is resolved to ensure the CCP's China containment.

The CCP will need to collapse before China will be allowed to ascend.

But the Chinese need not fear invasion. China is a culturally collapsed society for which no foreign power has the cure nor the will nor capacity to remedy except the Taiwanese.

If the Taiwanese were to oversee the normalisation and rejuvenation of Chinese society after the CCP's collapse, the Chinese would have its century. Not before.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 25^th, 2022 at 8:31am:

The world is resolved to ensure the CCP's China containment. The CCP will need to collapse before China will be allowed to ascend. But the Chinese need not fear invasion. China is a culturally collapsed society for which no foreign power has the cure nor the will nor capacity to remedy that except the Taiwanese. If the Taiwanese were to oversee the normalisation and rejuvenation of Chinese society after the CCP's collapse, the Chinese would have its century. Not before.

You are utterly retarded.

Gordon wrote on Feb 25^th, 2022 at 8:24am:

tickleandrose wrote on Feb 25th, 2022 at 8:15am: My guess is that Ukraine will turn into proxy theatres like Korea, Vietnam, and more recently Syria.   I do not think the US, UK or EU will directly declare war on Russia.   I still don’t think 200000 Russian troops is will be able to overtake the entire Ukraine, with 400000 troops and 44 million citizens.  The math just don’t add up.   At the best, I think this will settle into a prolonged but potentially very bloody war.  And the final settlement point would be similar to Korea, where Ukraine gets broken into a ‘West’ and a ‘East’ part.  I believe, during this time, the Chinese will stay back, and hope the war will drag both Russia and the West in, and keep them there as long as possible.  That means, diplomatically keeping the conflict from reaching full war status, at the same time, not letting it settle.  When the sanction bites, the Russian will need supplies - e.g. everyday goods, medical supplies, and this China will happily supply at a cost.  And on the other hand, it will continue to do roaring trades with major US companies.   And of course, us Aussies will continue to supply the raw material to China to enable all of that.  The longer this conflict drags on, the weaker both the West and the Russians will be.   In which case, the Chinese can probably stand back, and if it plays the cards right, it can potentially emerge as the global power soon.  If it turns into a protracted thing, USA/EU will keep Ukrain well supplied with Javelin/Stingers to inflict as much pain as possible.

Do not be surprised if China will also keep the Ukrainians well supplied with medical and civilians goods like they will do with the Russians.   I think it would in both Russian and the West's long term interest to keep this conflict as short and quick as possible. 

Marla wrote on Feb 25^th, 2022 at 8:32am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 25th, 2022 at 8:31am: The world is resolved to ensure the CCP's China containment. The CCP will need to collapse before China will be allowed to ascend. But the Chinese need not fear invasion. China is a culturally collapsed society for which no foreign power has the cure nor the will nor capacity to remedy that except the Taiwanese. If the Taiwanese were to oversee the normalisation and rejuvenation of Chinese society after the CCP's collapse, the Chinese would have its century. Not before. You are utterly retarded.

Were you the woman who asked 'us' to suck your dick?

tickleandrose wrote on Feb 25^th, 2022 at 8:33am:

Do not be surprised if China will also keep the Ukrainians well supplied with medical and civilians goods like they will do with the Russians.   I think it would in both Russian and the West's long term interest to keep this conflict as short and quick as possible.

The CCP has significant trade agreements with Ukraine. It is caught between two campfires on this.

No one has an interest in allowing Russia to prevail, but invasion of Russia is not a possibility.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 25^th, 2022 at 8:31am:

tickleandrose wrote on Feb 25th, 2022 at 8:15am: My guess is that Ukraine will turn into proxy theatres like Korea, Vietnam, and more recently Syria.   I do not think the US, UK or EU will directly declare war on Russia.   I still don’t think 200000 Russian troops is will be able to overtake the entire Ukraine, with 400000 troops and 44 million citizens.  The math just don’t add up.   At the best, I think this will settle into a prolonged but potentially very bloody war.  And the final settlement point would be similar to Korea, where Ukraine gets broken into a ‘West’ and a ‘East’ part.  I believe, during this time, the Chinese will stay back, and hope the war will drag both Russia and the West in, and keep them there as long as possible.  That means, diplomatically keeping the conflict from reaching full war status, at the same time, not letting it settle.  When the sanction bites, the Russian will need supplies - e.g. everyday goods, medical supplies, and this China will happily supply at a cost.  And on the other hand, it will continue to do roaring trades with major US companies.   And of course, us Aussies will continue to supply the raw material to China to enable all of that.  The longer this conflict drags on, the weaker both the West and the Russians will be.   In which case, the Chinese can probably stand back, and if it plays the cards right, it can potentially emerge as the global power soon.  The world is resolved to ensure the CCP's China containment. The CCP will need to collapse before China will be allowed to ascend. But the Chinese need not fear invasion. China is a culturally collapsed society for which no foreign power has the cure nor the will nor capacity to remedy except the Taiwanese. If the Taiwanese were to oversee the normalisation and rejuvenation of Chinese society after the CCP's collapse, the Chinese would have its century. Not before.

I wish I share your optimism. But I am a realist, and I just dont see this happening.  People had being talking about collapse of China for many decades.  But, it is getting stronger and stronger.   Until a point now, AUKUS need to be formed to counter its increasing influence and projection of power.

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 25^th, 2022 at 8:36am:

tickleandrose wrote on Feb 25th, 2022 at 8:33am: Do not be surprised if China will also keep the Ukrainians well supplied with medical and civilians goods like they will do with the Russians.   I think it would in both Russian and the West's long term interest to keep this conflict as short and quick as possible.  The CCP has significant trade agreements with Ukraine. It is caught between two campfires on this. No one has an interest in allowing Russia to prevail, but invasion of Russia is not a possibility.

Which goes back to my earlier suggestion.  The final settlement point would be divided West Vs East Ukraine.  And by looking at the map... I say roughly divided on either side of Kyiv.   The Russians will probably want to keep Chernobyl.... which includes its 2500km square area of nuclear exclusion zone, and a major serviceable highway to Kyiv for future conflicts. 

tickleandrose wrote on Feb 25^th, 2022 at 8:40am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 25th, 2022 at 8:31am: tickleandrose wrote on Feb 25th, 2022 at 8:15am: My guess is that Ukraine will turn into proxy theatres like Korea, Vietnam, and more recently Syria.   I do not think the US, UK or EU will directly declare war on Russia.   I still don’t think 200000 Russian troops is will be able to overtake the entire Ukraine, with 400000 troops and 44 million citizens.  The math just don’t add up.   At the best, I think this will settle into a prolonged but potentially very bloody war.  And the final settlement point would be similar to Korea, where Ukraine gets broken into a ‘West’ and a ‘East’ part.  I believe, during this time, the Chinese will stay back, and hope the war will drag both Russia and the West in, and keep them there as long as possible.  That means, diplomatically keeping the conflict from reaching full war status, at the same time, not letting it settle.  When the sanction bites, the Russian will need supplies - e.g. everyday goods, medical supplies, and this China will happily supply at a cost.  And on the other hand, it will continue to do roaring trades with major US companies.   And of course, us Aussies will continue to supply the raw material to China to enable all of that.  The longer this conflict drags on, the weaker both the West and the Russians will be.   In which case, the Chinese can probably stand back, and if it plays the cards right, it can potentially emerge as the global power soon.  The world is resolved to ensure the CCP's China containment. The CCP will need to collapse before China will be allowed to ascend. But the Chinese need not fear invasion. China is a culturally collapsed society for which no foreign power has the cure nor the will nor capacity to remedy except the Taiwanese. If the Taiwanese were to oversee the normalisation and rejuvenation of Chinese society after the CCP's collapse, the Chinese would have its century. Not before. I wish I share your optimism. But I am a realist, and I just dont see this happening.  People had being talking about collapse of China for many decades.  But, it is getting stronger and stronger.   Until a point now, AUKUS need to be formed to counter its increasing influence and projection of power.

China rose under Deng due to his gross naivete that letting people just get rich without oversight would result in China becoming a United States. What it lead to was the complete corruption of Chinese society.

Turns out surviving a murderer's paranoia was Deng's greatest skill, although he did correctly perceive the certain dangers of paramount leaders by setting term limits on the head of state which the Xi faction has brushed aside.