We have many in this forum who believe we should discriminate against unvaccinated people which shows their ignorance and how nasty they are.

There are many reasons why people aren't vaccinated ranging from availability medical reasons and personal choice.

Vaccine passports will achieve nothing they give the perception our leaders are doing something to help yet it's expensive can't work and blatant discrimination.

We have those who say listen to the scientists follow the science yet the vast majority of the people saying that are totally ignorant about science.

With science if something is proved to be wrong it must be discarded thrown in the rubbish because it's bullshit. Science deals with the truth it discards old ideas that are proven to be wrong.

There is zero zip zilch evidence to support the irrational idiocy unvaccinated people are a danger to anyone else. The vaccines only protect those vaccinated from getting seriously ill they do not prevent transmission from vaccinated people. Anyone who claims the kung flu vaccine prevents transmission of virus is a liar and a science denier.


Quote:

Fully vaccinated people who get a breakthrough infection can transmit the virus, CDC director says August 5, 2021 Fully vaccinated people who get a breakthrough infection can pass it on, US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said Thursday.  “Our vaccines are working exceptionally well,” Walensky told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer in reference to fully vaccinated people who get breakthrough infections. “They continue to work well for Delta, with regard to severe illness and death – they prevent it.But what they can't do anymore is prevent transmission.” CDC provided data last week that showed how fully vaccinated people who get a breakthrough infection can carry essentially that same amount of virus as an unvaccinated person, allowing them to transmit the virus just like an unvaccinated person can. That is why the CDC is recommending even vaccinated people wear masks indoors again, Walensky said. https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-08-05-21/h_d2accec79fdc37f422d02c536828ea1e

Breakthrough infections are very common the vaccines don't stop you from getting infected they only train your immune system to fight this virus.


Quote:

How the vaccines work These vaccines will protect you from getting severely ill or dying if you get COVID-19. The vaccines train your immune system to recognise and clear out the virus, before it makes you seriously ill. Your body's immune system builds this protection over time. You are fully protected 7 to 14 days after your second dose. The virus that causes COVID-19 (called SARS-CoV-2) has spikes of protein on each viral particle. These spike proteins allow the virus to attach to cells and cause disease. The vaccines help the body to: recognise these spike proteins as a threat fight the coronavirus that has these proteins. https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/approved-vaccines/how-they-work

If you fear unvaccinated people you have an irrational fear.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 12:34pm:

We have many in this forum who believe we should discriminate against unvaccinated people which shows their ignorance and how nasty they are. There are many reasons why people aren't vaccinated ranging from availability medical reasons and personal choice. Vaccine passports will achieve nothing they give the perception our leaders are doing something to help yet it's expensive can't work and blatant discrimination.

Travel passports are discriminatory too.

If you don't have one, you can't go overseas.

Driver's Licenses are discriminatory.

If you don't have one, you can't drive on the road.

etc. etc. etc.

Just get the jab - it doesn't hurt.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 12:34pm:

We have many in this forum who believe we should discriminate against unvaccinated people which shows their ignorance and how nasty they are.

Discrimination against the unvaccinated has existed from the first beginnings of vaccination.

You can choose to be unvaccinated, I guess. But choice does not mean no consequences arising from that choice.

lets see this for what it is.

state premiers and scomo could have seen massive hatred directed towards THEM for the pain of covid.

they needed a scapegoat and they needed someone for all the frustrated chodes to direct their hatred onto.

they created a class of "other" called the unvaccinated

in days not too distant this would have been the jews in nazi germany but its the same principle

whats been very revealing is that the left who are the "compassionate " people show absolutley no compassion to the anti vaxxers.

its how we know lefties are about power, not compassion.

quite revealing

aquascoot wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 1:03pm:

in days not too distant this would have been the jews in nazi germany but its the same principle

Are you equating Australian politicians with a murderous attempt to create an ethnostate?

aquascoot wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 1:03pm:

lets see this for what it is. state premiers and scomo could have seen massive hatred directed towards THEM for the pain of covid. they needed a scapegoat and they needed someone for all the frustrated chodes to direct their hatred onto. they created a class of "other" called the unvaccinated in days not too distant this would have been the jews in nazi germany but its the same principle whats been very revealing is that the left who are the "compassionate " people show absolutley no compassion to the anti vaxxers. its how we know lefties are about power, not compassion. quite revealing

Yes it is quite revealing how ignorant some are when evidence shows vaccination status makes no difference with transmission risk to other people.

We are not far from Nazi Germany with showing papers all we had to do is demonise a certain group then it becomes acceptable.

---

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 1:08pm:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 1:03pm: in days not too distant this would have been the jews in nazi germany but its the same principle Are you equating Australian politicians with a murderous attempt to create an ethnostate?

i'm saying that australian politicians are very keen to have the pent up anger in the community directed at any convenient group , as it takes the heat off them.

thats just human nature.

it is no different to maybe the liberal side of politics scape goating the long term unemployed

they arent interested in helping their chosen scapegoat group.

they NEED them to divert public scrutiny.


the nazis used to paint the jews as unclean, as vermin.
try to make the community feel disgust.

the unvaccinated are also painted as unclean, foul , disease ridden, vermin.

something to be exterminated or quarantined.
kept away from the virtuous. segregated ,blamed ,

its a successful strategy for the politicians

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 12:34pm:

If you fear unvaccinated people you have an irrational fear.

But it's not your call - IS IT ?

Every restaurenter has the right to rufuse entry to walking petri dishes
- and I have right to decline eating and drinking with them

I suggested in another thread that you and a bunch of anti-vaxxers should start a
"Mr Ed's Ivermectin Cafe" - and serve Domestos, on tap



You remind me of anti-union free-loaders who "demand their right" not to pay union fees
- and then "demand their right" all to benefits said union has negotiated and won for their members

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 1:15pm:

We are not far from Nazi Germany with showing papers all we had to do is demonise a certain group then it becomes acceptable.

No. Once we have no choice but to bear the mortal (and maybe debilitating long term) cost of a particular disease, we will be not far from actions arising from the human instinctive pathogenic response to that disease.

And Godwins Law inevitably comes into play from the anti vaxers who have no other argument to make.

There are sound medical reasons why some people cannot be vaccinated, however the majority of these anti vaxers are simply falling victim to fear and ignorance. This is fine as long as their irrationality does not affect others, but in this situation their refusal to vaccinate affects the common good and so punitive measures must be taken.

Quote:

: Discrimination with unvaccinated people

boo hoo ::)

The current covid vaccines are showing great results at preventing serious illness and death but poor results for preventing infection or stopping the pandemic, particularly delta.

If new research clearly shows the vaccine SIGNIFICANTLY stops the pandemic I'd reconsider my support for vaccine passports. I do however support individual employers making rules about vaccines. All my subbys are vaccinated and I wouldn't give work to anyone unvaccinated.

The only rule I'd put into place right now is that overseas travelers who are vaccinated can do home quarantine.  Non vaccinated must go to a facility.  Reason being the vaccine MAY be effective against a new variant we don't have.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 1:15pm:

people show absolutley no compassion to the anti vaxxers. i

COMPASSION ?
... for THIS rabble - and bunch CRIMINALS ?

https://i1.wp.com/i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/09/21/09/48187249-10012179-Violent_anti_vax_protesters_ambushed_riot_cops_and_smashed_up_po-a-93_1632214448493.jpg

Belgarion wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 1:26pm:

And Godwins Law inevitably comes into play from the anti vaxers who have no other argument to make. There are sound medical reasons why some people cannot be vaccinated, however the majority of these anti vaxers are simply falling victim to fear and ignorance. This is fine as long as their irrationality does not affect others, but in this situation their refusal to vaccinate affects the common good and so punitive measures must be taken.

And ultimately will be taken.

We are not purely individuals. Part of our humanity is the property of the whole.

'No man is an island...'

buzzanddidj wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 1:40pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 1:15pm: people show absolutley no compassion to the anti vaxxers. i COMPASSION ? ... for THIS rabble - and bunch CRIMINALS ? https://i1.wp.com/i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/09/21/09/48187249-10012179-Violent_anti_vax_protesters_ambushed_riot_cops_and_smashed_up_po-a-93_1632214448493.jpg

Sex tourist

aquascoot wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 1:19pm:

the nazis used to paint the jews as unclean, as vermin. try to make the community feel disgust. the unvaccinated are also painted as unclean, foul , disease ridden, vermin. something to be exterminated or quarantined. kept away from the virtuous. segregated ,blamed , its a successful strategy for the politicians

Are you expecting that the Australian armed services will be gassing the unvaccinated?

There's no proof yet that the vaccines are eliminating the virus ... and since the vaccinated can still catch Covid, vaccinated workers could spread it among their co-workers

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 2:44pm:

There's no proof yet that the vaccines are eliminating the virus ... and since the vaccinated can still catch Covid, vaccinated workers could spread it among their co-workers

There is clear evidence that vaccination greatly reduces the effects of the virus, (where it doesn't prevent infection altogether), to the point that the infected do not require hospitalisation or medical attention beyond what can be self-administered.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 2:53pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 2:44pm: There's no proof yet that the vaccines are eliminating the virus ... and since the vaccinated can still catch Covid, vaccinated workers could spread it among their co-workers There is clear evidence that vaccination greatly reduces the effects of the virus, (where it doesn't prevent infection altogether), to the point that the infected do not require hospitalisation or medical attention beyond what can be self-administered.

Please explain those two quips

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 2:04pm:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 1:19pm: the nazis used to paint the jews as unclean, as vermin. try to make the community feel disgust. the unvaccinated are also painted as unclean, foul , disease ridden, vermin. something to be exterminated or quarantined. kept away from the virtuous. segregated ,blamed , its a successful strategy for the politicians Are you expecting that the Australian armed services will be gassing the unvaccinated?

no but i would expect that the politicians will try to use this as spin.

the media in melbourne are locked out of reporting on police actions.

there is an exclusion zone.

o media helicopters allowed to film police

thats never happened before.

we could see schools refuse to allow unvaccinated kids into schools

this is happening right now in california

then its quite easy to send in childrens services and take the kids off the parents

you could use health or education breaches to do that.

how many of the demonstrators have the cash to pay 10,000 dollar fines.

the state can incarcerate them

its a bit over the top for what is a personal health choice.

and dont give me this crap about vaccinated people not being a threat.

vaccinated people carry the virus and spread it around.

that argument is not going to fly

Funny thing is, the comments I hear IRL about unvaxxed are pretty moderate.
People encourage others to get vaxxed but also think each to their own.

Log on to Ozpol and we have drunk drivers hoping the unvaxxed die.

As Australians, we need to watch out for people with extreme attitudes because they're probably connected to foreign entities whose goal is to cause societal division and destabilise the country. So when you read comments from drunk drivers hoping the unvaxxed die, just think, Russian or Chinese.

aquascoot wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 3:17pm:

and dont give me this crap about vaccinated people not being a threat. vaccinated people carry the virus and spread it around. that argument is not going to fly

It's true that full vaccination does not necessarily prevent infection (while it greatly reduces the likelihood of infection it does not eliminate the possibility of infection) nor the possibility of transmission.

But it's clear that the severe effects of infection are greatly reduced among the fully vaccinated such that the infected are many times more likely to be able to manage the infection without hospitalisation.

buzzanddidj wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 1:40pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 1:15pm: people show absolutley no compassion to the anti vaxxers. i COMPASSION ? ... for THIS rabble - and bunch CRIMINALS ? https://i1.wp.com/i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/09/21/09/48187249-10012179-Violent_anti_vax_protesters_ambushed_riot_cops_and_smashed_up_po-a-93_1632214448493.jpg

It's against forum rules to change posts made by people into something they never said you can get banned for that.

Fix it and apologise ya dopey dickhead.

If the MODS read this then they should follow forum rules and ban him.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 2:04pm:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 1:19pm: the nazis used to paint the jews as unclean, as vermin. try to make the community feel disgust. the unvaccinated are also painted as unclean, foul , disease ridden, vermin. something to be exterminated or quarantined. kept away from the virtuous. segregated ,blamed , its a successful strategy for the politicians Are you expecting that the Australian armed services will be gassing the unvaccinated?

They're already using tear gas and rubber bullets on anti lockdown protestors under Dictator Dan in Victoria.

Many of these anti lockdown protestors were vaccinated there were no exemptions given to them with lockdown.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 8:35pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 2:04pm: aquascoot wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 1:19pm: the nazis used to paint the jews as unclean, as vermin. try to make the community feel disgust. the unvaccinated are also painted as unclean, foul , disease ridden, vermin. something to be exterminated or quarantined. kept away from the virtuous. segregated ,blamed , its a successful strategy for the politicians Are you expecting that the Australian armed services will be gassing the unvaccinated? They're already using tear gas and rubber bullets on anti lockdown protestors under Dictator Dan in Victoria.

I was referring more to Zyklon-B.

Gordon wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 1:38pm:

The current covid vaccines are showing great results at preventing serious illness and death but poor results for preventing infection or stopping the pandemic, particularly delta. If new research clearly shows the vaccine SIGNIFICANTLY stops the pandemic I'd reconsider my support for vaccine passports. I do however support individual employers making rules about vaccines. All my subbys are vaccinated and I wouldn't give work to anyone unvaccinated. The only rule I'd put into place right now is that overseas travelers who are vaccinated can do home quarantine.  Non vaccinated must go to a facility.  Reason being the vaccine MAY be effective against a new variant we don't have.

These vaccines don't prevent you from getting infected they only help you fight infection.

Vaccinated people still get infected and transmit this virus so vaccine passports are an expensive waste of time that achieve nothing apart from giving a perception the government is doing something.

Unvaccinated worker - When they get infected they will have symptoms sniffles cough etc you will notice this if they were too stupid to have a sickie. You tell them to get tested don't come back until you're clear within 14 days they will be recovering or going to hospital. By sending them away they can't infect other workers.

Vaccinated worker - When they get infected if asymptomatic nobody will be aware they're infected and spreading this virus to everyone else at work which means they're a greater danger to everyone else. They don't go home for 14 days like unvaccinated people so they have far greater potential to spread virus in greater numbers.

We have rapid antigen testing becoming available results in 15 minutes. A negative test would be far better than any useless vaccine passport which does nothing.

Gordon wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 1:38pm:

I'd reconsider my support for vaccine passports.

Yes... There will be an element of a bureaucratic 'cock-up theory' to them. Notwithstanding vaccine passport forgeries which are hitting the US black market from China.

They may be more effective as part of the visa process to enter the country, given just getting the vaccine will be way easier than risking fake vaccine passports that will cost a lot and will carry a penalty of jailtime and deportation; which will likely prevent the fraudster from travelling to any country in the world.

Could Natural COVID Immunity be better than Vaccinated Immunity?
10 min
1,387,051 views
Sep 11, 2021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vxe9pJRQcs




IN THE COMMENTS.....


Quote:

Andy Flores 1 week ago It is now considered a “CONSPIRACY THEORY” to believe that your immune system is capable of doing the job it was designed to do.

.



Quote:

Mark Banin 1 week ago The question that needs to be asked is: why are governments totally ignoring natural immunity and insisting everyone get the vaccine?

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 3:32pm:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 3:17pm: and dont give me this crap about vaccinated people not being a threat. vaccinated people carry the virus and spread it around. that argument is not going to fly It's true that full vaccination does not necessarily prevent infection (while it greatly reduces the likelihood of infection it does not eliminate the possibility of infection) nor the possibility of transmission. But it's clear that the severe effects of infection are greatly reduced among the fully vaccinated such that the infected are many times more likely to be able to manage the infection without hospitalisation.

These vaccines don't stop you getting infected they only train your immune system to recognise this virus which helps your immune system fight it it doesn't do anything else.

We currently have 22,146 active cases of Kung Flu in Australia with 1,496 of them in hospital. There are only 296 people in ICU. 92% of our Kung Flu deaths have been people over 60 years of age.The numbers show the vast majority of those infected before the vaccine were able to manage it without going to hospital.

https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-case-numbers-and-statistics#total-cases-recoveries-deaths-and-new-cases-in-the-last-24-hours

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 9:11pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 3:32pm: aquascoot wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 3:17pm: and dont give me this crap about vaccinated people not being a threat. vaccinated people carry the virus and spread it around. that argument is not going to fly It's true that full vaccination does not necessarily prevent infection (while it greatly reduces the likelihood of infection it does not eliminate the possibility of infection) nor the possibility of transmission. But it's clear that the severe effects of infection are greatly reduced among the fully vaccinated such that the infected are many times more likely to be able to manage the infection without hospitalisation. These vaccines don't stop you getting infected they only train your immune system to recognise this virus which helps your immune system fight it it doesn't do anything else. We currently have 22,146 active cases of Kung Flu in Australia with 1,496 of them in hospital. There are only 296 people in ICU. 92% of our Kung Flu deaths have been people over 60 years of age.The numbers show the vast majority of those infected before the vaccine were able to manage it without going to hospital. https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-case-numbers-and-statistics#total-cases-recoveries-deaths-and-new-cases-in-the-last-24-hours

The vaccines don't necessarily stop you getting infected.

But it's clear that the severe effects of infection are greatly reduced among the fully vaccinated such that the infected are many times more likely to be able to manage the infection without hospitalisation.

Australia has imposed strict lockdown measures that have accounted for lower incidence of infection and spread. The US provides more clear evidence (particularly in the southern states where anti-vaxx became a 'just-add-water' religion) that vaccines have been highly effective in preventing COVID spread and/or severity of infection.

aquascoot wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 3:17pm:

we could see schools refuse to allow unvaccinated kids into schools this is happening right now in california

COULD see ?

Unvaccinated children have been kept out of our schools - for DECADES
- for a whole range of (what once were) common childhood illnesses

Measles, mumps, rubella, diptheria, hooping cough, etc.

Due to this program, many of these have been all but been ELIMINATED

Covid is next on the hit-list

 

buzzanddidj wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 9:27pm:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 3:17pm: we could see schools refuse to allow unvaccinated kids into schools this is happening right now in california COULD see ? Unvaccinated children have been kept out of our schools - for DECADES - for a whole range of (what once were) common childhood illnesses Measles, mumps, rubella, diptheria, hooping cough, etc. Due to this program, many of these have been all but been ELIMINATED Covid is next on the hit-list

Yes... It's a certainty.

Some people who've had kids seem to have the memories of goldfish.

Quote:

We have many in this forum who believe we should discriminate against unvaccinated people which shows their ignorance and how nasty they are.

It is not discrimination to stop people from risking the life of other people, it's just common sense.

Dnarever wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 9:57pm:

Quote: We have many in this forum who believe we should discriminate against unvaccinated people which shows their ignorance and how nasty they are. It is not discrimination to stop people from risking the life of other people, it's just common sense.

And even more than common sense... It's deeply instinctive.

buzzanddidj wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 9:27pm:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 3:17pm: we could see schools refuse to allow unvaccinated kids into schools this is happening right now in california COULD see ? Unvaccinated children have been kept out of our schools - for DECADES - for a whole range of (what once were) common childhood illnesses Measles, mumps, rubella, diptheria, hooping cough, etc. Due to this program, many of these have been all but been ELIMINATED Covid is next on the hit-list

You really have no idea on what you're talking about perhaps you should put your bong away and educate yourself. Your ignorance is here for all to read.

Measles,Mumps, rubella vaccine is a sterilising vaccine which means it prevents you from getting infected which is why that vaccine can eliminate those problems.

You will never eliminate a virus like Kung Flu with current vaccines which are non sterilising which means people vaccinated can still catch this virus these vaccines only reduce severity of illness.

Best case scenario at present is Kung Flu will go from pandemic to endemic which means it will always be with us.

Since this virus is predicted to be endemic the best solution for kids is natural immunity as kids only get a mild infection if healthy.


Quote:

Deaths from Covid are extremely rare among children, with data showing young people face a one in 500,000 risk of dying from the coronavirus. In England, just 25 under-18s have died from Covid, which equates to around two in a million. Young people with pre-existing medical conditions, like heart disease and cancer, and severe disability, which can include cerebral palsy and autism, have a higher chance of becoming seriously ill from the virus. But the scientists from University College London, the University of York and the University of Liverpool said this risk is no higher then the risk from flu. https://www.msn.com/en-au/health/familyhealth/girl-15-dies-from-covid-on-the-day-she-was-due-to-be-vaccinated/ar-AAP45y5?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

Why do leftist idiots think they know more than scientists who say the kung flu is no worse than the flu for healthy kids? Why do idiots ignore the scientists with this fact?

All this discrimination for a virus that has less than 0.36% case fatality rate in my age group and much lower risk for younger people.

---

Dnarever wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 9:57pm:

Quote: We have many in this forum who believe we should discriminate against unvaccinated people which shows their ignorance and how nasty they are. It is not discrimination to stop people from risking the life of other people, it's just common sense.

That's bullshit.

Vaccinated people can transmit this virus just like unvaccinated people did you read what the CDC said?

Why are you ignoring the science on this are you stupid or just ignorant?

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 9:29pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 9:27pm: aquascoot wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 3:17pm: we could see schools refuse to allow unvaccinated kids into schools this is happening right now in california COULD see ? Unvaccinated children have been kept out of our schools - for DECADES - for a whole range of (what once were) common childhood illnesses Measles, mumps, rubella, diptheria, hooping cough, etc. Due to this program, many of these have been all but been ELIMINATED Covid is next on the hit-list   Yes... It's a certainty. Some people who've had kids seem to have the memories of goldfish.

A goldfish would have more brains than you 2.

Measles, Mumps ,rubella vaccine is a sterilising vaccine which means it prevents you from catching those things which makes it easy to eliminate.

You will never eliminate the kung flu with a non sterilising vaccine which all the current ones are. These vaccines don't prevent you from catching Kung Flu they only reduce severity of infection.

Best estimate is Kung Flu will go from pandemic to endemic

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 10:51pm:

A goldfish would have more brains than you 2. Measles, Mumps ,rubella vaccine is a sterilising vaccine which means it prevents you from catching those things which makes it easy to eliminate. You will never eliminate the kung flu with a non sterilising vaccine which all the current ones are. These vaccines don't prevent you from catching Kung Flu they only reduce severity of infection. Best estimate is Kung Flu will go from pandemic to endemic

Cholera? Smallpox? Tuberculosis? Polio? Hepatitis A? Hepatitis B? Diphtheria? Tetanus? Rotavirus? Diphtheria?

It is certain that vaccination against COVID will be mandatory.

buzzanddidj wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 9:27pm:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 3:17pm: we could see schools refuse to allow unvaccinated kids into schools this is happening right now in california Unvaccinated children have been kept out of our schools - for DECADES - for a whole range of common childhood illnesses Measles, mumps, rubella, diptheria, hooping cough, etc. Due to this program, many of these have been all but been ELIMINATED Covid is next on the hit-list

Factual post.  Thanks.

That is really good information

Aqua is right, the politicians need a scapegoat - divide and conquer tactic - a jurassic tactic as old as feeding Christians to lions ... and still working apparently

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 11:18pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 9:27pm: aquascoot wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 3:17pm: we could see schools refuse to allow unvaccinated kids into schools this is happening right now in california Unvaccinated children have been kept out of our schools - for DECADES - for a whole range of common childhood illnesses Measles, mumps, rubella, diptheria, hooping cough, etc. Due to this program, many of these have been all but been ELIMINATED Covid is next on the hit-list   Factual post.  Thanks. That is really good information

Incorrect

Children not vaccinated for those diseases are more than welcome in our public education system

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 10:59pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 10:51pm: A goldfish would have more brains than you 2. Measles, Mumps ,rubella vaccine is a sterilising vaccine which means it prevents you from catching those things which makes it easy to eliminate. You will never eliminate the kung flu with a non sterilising vaccine which all the current ones are. These vaccines don't prevent you from catching Kung Flu they only reduce severity of infection. Best estimate is Kung Flu will go from pandemic to endemic Cholera? Smallpox? Tuberculosis? Polio? Hepatitis A? Hepatitis B? Diphtheria? Tetanus? Rotavirus? Diphtheria? It is certain that vaccination against COVID will be mandatory.

We'll see.

Sure vaccines are important and people should get vaccinated

But the reason Queensland can't open it's border with New South Wales is because even without covid
Our public hospitals are at 100% capacity and ambulances can't be unloaded

That is nothing to do with polio or cholera or hepatitis a

That is wholly and solely to do with the fact that fat Steve and fat Janine and the 70% of the population who live the life of pure garbage like fat Steve and fat Janine
Are incredibly unhealthy and the hospital system is doing little more
Then treating lifestyle-related self-inflicted chronic pathology with zero chance of ever improving


Our public hospital system is sinking under the bloated bulk of lazy self entitled selfish unhealthy fat chodes who refuse to take any responsibility for their health

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 7:01am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 10:59pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 10:51pm: A goldfish would have more brains than you 2. Measles, Mumps ,rubella vaccine is a sterilising vaccine which means it prevents you from catching those things which makes it easy to eliminate. You will never eliminate the kung flu with a non sterilising vaccine which all the current ones are. These vaccines don't prevent you from catching Kung Flu they only reduce severity of infection. Best estimate is Kung Flu will go from pandemic to endemic Cholera? Smallpox? Tuberculosis? Polio? Hepatitis A? Hepatitis B? Diphtheria? Tetanus? Rotavirus? Diphtheria? It is certain that vaccination against COVID will be mandatory. We'll see.

Yes.

And it's not hard to imagine a strategy for full compliance.

After the 90% mark is reached voluntarily (which is likely), airline services will be restricted to fully vaccinated only. Next will likely be police powers to issue stay-at-home orders to individuals who cannot prove they're fully vaccinated. If the order is breached, courts will be empowered to suspend drivers licenses.

By this time next year, the remaining hold-outs will be managed on a case-by-case basis which, ultimately (if necessary) will include jail time for willful non-compliance without an exemption certificate.

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 1:18am:

Aqua is right, the politicians need a scapegoat - divide and conquer tactic - a jurassic tactic as old as feeding Christians to lions ... and still working apparently

So, nothing to do with economic recovery, and a reconnecting to the world, then?

Just Nazis and ancient Roman oligarchy, eh?

You should move to a totalitarian state... See if you can spot the differences in those who govern.

aquascoot wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 7:34am:

Sure vaccines are important and people should get vaccinated But the reason Queensland can't open it's border with New South Wales is because even without covid Our public hospitals are at 100% capacity and ambulances can't be unloaded That is nothing to do with polio or cholera or hepatitis a That is wholly and solely to do with the fact that fat Steve and fat Janine and the 70% of the population who live the life of pure garbage like fat Steve and fat Janine Are incredibly unhealthy and the hospital system is doing little more Then treating lifestyle-related self-inflicted chronic pathology with zero chance of ever improving Our public hospital system is sinking under the bloated bulk of lazy self entitled selfish unhealthy fat chodes who refuse to take any responsibility for their health

Your picture of Queensland fits an ugly stereotype... A land inhabited by fat, alcoholic white trash?

Long before Covid or even SARS.

....many Administrations in the Medical Industry were trying to use Legality clout to force Workers to take an Anti-Flu/Cold Vaccine jab every year. In fact, this 'Jab' was being flogged off like Hair Tonic, with the threat of dismissal by Admins in the Health Industry itself, if a worker did not display proof of a jab.

...now there is no substantial evidence or proof that these Cold/Flu jobs actually work. Most who take them, get just as sick from them, than the Flu/Cold itself.
These jabs are a 'fabricated' push to make people dependent on yearly jabs (like junkies) ...with each year passing without the 'natural' flu/cold (to build up our immune systems naturally) - then suddenly the poor person can't get their yearly jab and catches the cold... which hits them as hard as a pandemic Covid virus with a high chance of DEATH.

The fact that Western Medicine has been overshadowed by Politics still, even during a Pandemic - shows how many people have little trust and faith in their Medical Systems (unlike Castro's Cuban Health System - one of the best in the world and vastly superior than the Capitalist one to the north) and hence why a Health System run by 'POLITITIONS' constitutes a FAKE PANDEMIC.

We all know Politician Scomo of Hillsong is ruler of the Australian Fire scene and ruler of the Australian Medical system... Dr Scomo knows what's best for this country and that's why he has the last word on everything. Scomo knows what's best for Australia, while he sips cocktails in Hawaii on his way to his USA 'masters'. We all know Gillard couldn't wait to get to the USA to be applauded for calling all Australian men as mysogynists, etc.

THIS IS WHY PEOPLE FEAR THE VACCINE.
When all that you see on TV is Politicians in charge of this GLOBAL MEDICAL PANDEMIC (not a world war) and a Military General running the Health System and the only male Medical Expert being a 'foreigner' (just visiting, on the monopoly board).
It's easy not to take the Australian Health System seriously.

...and that's why many Australians will all start to die from this Pandemic - with or without the Vaccine. Scomo of the Nostromo has let the Virus Alien in.

Jasin wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 9:39am:

Long before Covid or even SARS. ....many Administrations in the Medical Industry were trying to use Legality clout to force Workers to take an Anti-Flu/Cold Vaccine jab every year. In fact, this 'Jab' was being flogged off like Hair Tonic, with the threat of dismissal by Admins in the Health Industry itself, if a worker did not display proof of a jab. . .

Ive worked in Hospitals quite a lot over the years and no one ever mentioned  the flu jab apart from the annual offer of a free jab, no coercion detected. . And theres no "legal clout" to force anyone to take a flu jab. if you take note of what is happening in the world around  you they are now actually having to invent those restrictions  specifically for this Covid19 virus.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 9:13am:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 7:34am: Sure vaccines are important and people should get vaccinated But the reason Queensland can't open it's border with New South Wales is because even without covid Our public hospitals are at 100% capacity and ambulances can't be unloaded That is nothing to do with polio or cholera or hepatitis a That is wholly and solely to do with the fact that fat Steve and fat Janine and the 70% of the population who live the life of pure garbage like fat Steve and fat Janine Are incredibly unhealthy and the hospital system is doing little more Then treating lifestyle-related self-inflicted chronic pathology with zero chance of ever improving Our public hospital system is sinking under the bloated bulk of lazy self entitled selfish unhealthy fat chodes who refuse to take any responsibility for their health Your picture of Queensland fits an ugly stereotype... A land inhabited by fat, alcoholic white trash?

Nothing to do with white

I think you would find the level of obesity and alcoholism is just as high if not higher in Aboriginal and Maori

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 9:10am:

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 1:18am: Aqua is right, the politicians need a scapegoat - divide and conquer tactic - a jurassic tactic as old as feeding Christians to lions ... and still working apparently So, nothing to do with economic recovery, and a reconnecting to the world, then? Just Nazis and ancient Roman oligarchy, eh? You should move to a totalitarian state... See if you can spot the differences in those who govern.

Not really much difference North

I'm sure in China they just make you get the vaccine
If California decides that children cannot go to school without it
It's really not that different is it ?

aquascoot wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 10:07am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 9:10am: Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 1:18am: Aqua is right, the politicians need a scapegoat - divide and conquer tactic - a jurassic tactic as old as feeding Christians to lions ... and still working apparently So, nothing to do with economic recovery, and a reconnecting to the world, then? Just Nazis and ancient Roman oligarchy, eh? You should move to a totalitarian state... See if you can spot the differences in those who govern. Not really much difference North I'm sure in China they just make you get the vaccine If California decides that children cannot go to school without it It's really not that different is it ?

Maybe you need to educate yourself on what totalitarianism is...

Shouldn't be hard... There are more hours of documentaries and time spent writing the histories of totalitarianism than the hours lived by Hitler, Stalin and Mao combined.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 9:07am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 7:01am: NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 10:59pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 10:51pm: A goldfish would have more brains than you 2. Measles, Mumps ,rubella vaccine is a sterilising vaccine which means it prevents you from catching those things which makes it easy to eliminate. You will never eliminate the kung flu with a non sterilising vaccine which all the current ones are. These vaccines don't prevent you from catching Kung Flu they only reduce severity of infection. Best estimate is Kung Flu will go from pandemic to endemic Cholera? Smallpox? Tuberculosis? Polio? Hepatitis A? Hepatitis B? Diphtheria? Tetanus? Rotavirus? Diphtheria? It is certain that vaccination against COVID will be mandatory. We'll see. Yes. And it's not hard to imagine a strategy for full compliance. After the 90% mark is reached voluntarily (which is likely), airline services will be restricted to fully vaccinated only. Next will likely be police powers to issue stay-at-home orders to individuals who cannot prove they're fully vaccinated. If the order is breached, courts will be empowered to suspend drivers licenses. By this time next year, the remaining hold-outs will be managed on a case-by-case basis which, ultimately (if necessary) will include jail time for willful non-compliance without an exemption certificate.

• You'd love that hey.

• You're also dreaming. It's not gonna happen.

• Never mind! Cross your fingers. That might help 😂

aquascoot wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 10:05am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 9:13am: aquascoot wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 7:34am: Sure vaccines are important and people should get vaccinated But the reason Queensland can't open it's border with New South Wales is because even without covid Our public hospitals are at 100% capacity and ambulances can't be unloaded That is nothing to do with polio or cholera or hepatitis a That is wholly and solely to do with the fact that fat Steve and fat Janine and the 70% of the population who live the life of pure garbage like fat Steve and fat Janine Are incredibly unhealthy and the hospital system is doing little more Then treating lifestyle-related self-inflicted chronic pathology with zero chance of ever improving Our public hospital system is sinking under the bloated bulk of lazy self entitled selfish unhealthy fat chodes who refuse to take any responsibility for their health Your picture of Queensland fits an ugly stereotype... A land inhabited by fat, alcoholic white trash? Nothing to do with white I think you would find the level of obesity and alcoholism is just as high if not higher in Aboriginal and Maori

Are Steve and Janine white?

Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 10:20am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 9:07am: Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 7:01am: NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 10:59pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 10:51pm: A goldfish would have more brains than you 2. Measles, Mumps ,rubella vaccine is a sterilising vaccine which means it prevents you from catching those things which makes it easy to eliminate. You will never eliminate the kung flu with a non sterilising vaccine which all the current ones are. These vaccines don't prevent you from catching Kung Flu they only reduce severity of infection. Best estimate is Kung Flu will go from pandemic to endemic Cholera? Smallpox? Tuberculosis? Polio? Hepatitis A? Hepatitis B? Diphtheria? Tetanus? Rotavirus? Diphtheria? It is certain that vaccination against COVID will be mandatory. We'll see. Yes. And it's not hard to imagine a strategy for full compliance. After the 90% mark is reached voluntarily (which is likely), airline services will be restricted to fully vaccinated only. Next will likely be police powers to issue stay-at-home orders to individuals who cannot prove they're fully vaccinated. If the order is breached, courts will be empowered to suspend drivers licenses. By this time next year, the remaining hold-outs will be managed on a case-by-case basis which, ultimately (if necessary) will include jail time for willful non-compliance without an exemption certificate. • You'd love that hey. • You're also dreaming. It's not gonna happen. • Never mind! Cross your fingers. That might help 😂

It will hit home when your kids want to travel, but will be required to be fully vaccinated.

On that day, mad mum, will be disregarded.

Imaginary kids travelling, cool!

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 10:13am:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 10:07am: NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 9:10am: Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 1:18am: Aqua is right, the politicians need a scapegoat - divide and conquer tactic - a jurassic tactic as old as feeding Christians to lions ... and still working apparently So, nothing to do with economic recovery, and a reconnecting to the world, then? Just Nazis and ancient Roman oligarchy, eh? You should move to a totalitarian state... See if you can spot the differences in those who govern. Not really much difference North I'm sure in China they just make you get the vaccine If California decides that children cannot go to school without it It's really not that different is it ? Maybe you need to educate yourself on what totalitarianism is... Shouldn't be hard... There are more hours of documentaries and time spent writing the histories of totalitarianism than the hours lived by Hitler, Stalin and Mao combined.

Authoritarianism, that's what we have at the moment, and "divide & conquer" can be applied in that also. Select a group (non vaxxed) and go after them, get the vaxxed on-side to assist. If things are still not going well for you, go after the non vaxxed even more, with even more hostility, until the vaxxed are mostly doing the job for you ..... and that's exactly what's happening now ... then the Covid incompetent politicians just sit back and watch the tactic take effect in the community

"Divide and Conquer", a jurassic political tactic as old as the hills - we never wake up to it

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 11:55am:

Authoritarianism, that's what we have at the moment, and "divide & conquer" can be applied in that also. Select a group (non vaxxed) and go after them, get the vaxxed on-side to assist. If things are still not going well for you, go after the non vaxxed even more, with even more hostility, until the vaxxed are mostly doing the job for you ..... and that's exactly what's happening now ... then the Covid incompetent politicians just sit back and watch the tactic take effect in the community "Divide and Conquer", a jurassic political tactic as old as the hills - we never wake up to it

A few flaws in your logic...

No Australian politician engineered the pandemic.

Mark McGowan is the only Australian political leader who has benefitted politically from the pandemic, so if it was a mass political conspiracy (which it isn't) it is an abject failure.

In early 2020, all Australian political leaders were confused by what course of action should be taken... i.e. there was no conspiratorial plan as how to deal with the problem, either for or against their political interests.

The need to align to a singular world strategy for the next step though the pandemic is obvious, so the actions that need to be taken by Australian politicians could be against their immediate political interests (particularly if there are logistical cock-ups, which there almost certainly will be). This is particularly true of Mark McGowan who, no doubt, would be happy to continue with state isolation for maybe another year.

While you can always evoke the cynical political quip: 'never let a disaster go to waste', in reality disasters are political tornadoes in that they cannot be controlled such that the politician can guarantee and advantageous outcome.

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 11:55am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 10:13am: aquascoot wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 10:07am: NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 9:10am: Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 1:18am: Aqua is right, the politicians need a scapegoat - divide and conquer tactic - a jurassic tactic as old as feeding Christians to lions ... and still working apparently So, nothing to do with economic recovery, and a reconnecting to the world, then? Just Nazis and ancient Roman oligarchy, eh? You should move to a totalitarian state... See if you can spot the differences in those who govern. Not really much difference North I'm sure in China they just make you get the vaccine If California decides that children cannot go to school without it It's really not that different is it ? Maybe you need to educate yourself on what totalitarianism is... Shouldn't be hard... There are more hours of documentaries and time spent writing the histories of totalitarianism than the hours lived by Hitler, Stalin and Mao combined. Authoritarianism, that's what we have at the moment, and "divide & conquer" can be applied in that also. Select a group (non vaxxed) and go after them, get the vaxxed on-side to assist. If things are still not going well for you, go after the non vaxxed even more, with even more hostility, until the vaxxed are mostly doing the job for you ..... and that's exactly what's happening now ... then the Covid incompetent politicians just sit back and watch the tactic take effect in the community "Divide and Conquer", a jurassic political tactic as old as the hills - we never wake up to it

i agree completely.

north would have been a good little nazi in 1939, dobbing in suspicious behaviour at the frank household to try and get anne frank dealt with appropriately.
he would have seen it as his duty to help "cleanse" his environement and keep his society "safe"

aquascoot wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 12:08pm:

i agree completely. north would have been a good little nazi in 1939, dobbing in suspicious behaviour at the frank household to try and get anne frank dealt with appropriately. he would have seen it as his duty to help "cleanse" his environement and keep his society "safe"

Apart from that being offensive, it proves you're not the thinker you imagine yourself to be... To fall for reductio ad Hitlerum for effect without a point other than to shock proves that.

You'll always be the son of poor white trash... You know that and so does anyone who reads your posts.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 12:08pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 11:55am: Authoritarianism, that's what we have at the moment, and "divide & conquer" can be applied in that also. Select a group (non vaxxed) and go after them, get the vaxxed on-side to assist. If things are still not going well for you, go after the non vaxxed even more, with even more hostility, until the vaxxed are mostly doing the job for you ..... and that's exactly what's happening now ... then the Covid incompetent politicians just sit back and watch the tactic take effect in the community "Divide and Conquer", a jurassic political tactic as old as the hills - we never wake up to it A few flaws in your logic... No Australian politician engineered the pandemic. Mark McGowan is the only Australian political leader who has benefitted politically from the pandemic, so if it was a mass political conspiracy (which it isn't) it is an abject failure. In early 2020, all Australian political leaders were confused by what course of action should be taken... i.e. there was no conspiratorial plan as how to deal with the problem, either for or against their political interests. The need to align to a singular world strategy for the next step though the pandemic is obvious, so the actions that need to be taken by Australian politicians could be against their immediate political interests (particularly if there are logistical cock-ups, which there almost certainly will be). This is particularly true of Mark McGowan who, no doubt, would be happy to continue with state isolation for maybe another year. While you can always evoke the cynical political quip: 'never let a disaster go to waste', in reality disasters are political tornadoes in that they cannot be controlled such that the politician can guarantee and advantageous outcome.

never let a good crisis go to waste.

the same thing happened post 9/11.

20 years after, you still wouldnt dare go into an airport and start cracking jokes or teasing the security guys.

you have been trained to be submissive
you have been trained to obey
you have been trained to comply and be an automaton.
you have been trained to do exactly what the state says.
if they want to strip search your 5 yo daughter, you wouldnt speak up.


it will be the same with this new found authority with regards to health (which was always seen as a personal right) in 20 years time.
the position wont be unwound

rhino wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 9:45am:

Jasin wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 9:39am: Long before Covid or even SARS. ....many Administrations in the Medical Industry were trying to use Legality clout to force Workers to take an Anti-Flu/Cold Vaccine jab every year. In fact, this 'Jab' was being flogged off like Hair Tonic, with the threat of dismissal by Admins in the Health Industry itself, if a worker did not display proof of a jab. . . Ive worked in Hospitals quite a lot over the years and no one ever mentioned  the flu jab apart from the annual offer of a free jab, no coercion detected. . And theres no "legal clout" to force anyone to take a flu jab. if you take note of what is happening in the world around  you they are now actually having to invent those restrictions  specifically for this Covid19 virus.

There were hundreds of cases of workers in Hospitals and Aged Care facilities long before Corona who were 'legally' compromised with their employment, if they did not get the (might work) Flu Shot. It's almost a precedent for what Scomo has done to the country.

aquascoot wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 12:12pm:

never let a good crisis go to waste. the same thing happened post 9/11. 20 years after, you still wouldnt dare go into an airport and start cracking jokes or teasing the security guys. you have been trained to be submissive you have been trained to obey you have been trained to comply and be an automaton. you have been trained to do exactly what the state says. if they want to strip search your 5 yo daughter, you wouldnt speak up. it will be the same with this new found authority with regards to health (which was always seen as a personal right) in 20 years time. the position wont be unwound

Being the spawn of poor white trash, (who, no doubt in their turn were also the spawn of poor white trash), you can only imagine an Orwellian world where you are sewage and all others above your status are the removalists of sewage.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 12:11pm:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 12:08pm: i agree completely. north would have been a good little nazi in 1939, dobbing in suspicious behaviour at the frank household to try and get anne frank dealt with appropriately. he would have seen it as his duty to help "cleanse" his environement and keep his society "safe" Apart from that being offensive, it proves you're not the thinker you imagine yourself to be... To fall for reductio ad Hitlerum for effect without a point other than to shock proves that. You'll always be the son of poor white trash... You know that and so does anyone who reads your posts.

you can label me deplorable if you like

just channel hilary  :D :D :D :D

aquascoot wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 12:19pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 12:11pm: aquascoot wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 12:08pm: i agree completely. north would have been a good little nazi in 1939, dobbing in suspicious behaviour at the frank household to try and get anne frank dealt with appropriately. he would have seen it as his duty to help "cleanse" his environement and keep his society "safe" Apart from that being offensive, it proves you're not the thinker you imagine yourself to be... To fall for reductio ad Hitlerum for effect without a point other than to shock proves that. You'll always be the son of poor white trash... You know that and so does anyone who reads your posts. you can label me deplorable if you like

Happy to...

You don't seriously think your use of Steve and Janine (whom you disparage as deplorable whenever you can) doesn't tell us that they're in your bloodline.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 12:08pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 11:55am: Authoritarianism, that's what we have at the moment, and "divide & conquer" can be applied in that also. Select a group (non vaxxed) and go after them, get the vaxxed on-side to assist. If things are still not going well for you, go after the non vaxxed even more, with even more hostility, until the vaxxed are mostly doing the job for you ..... and that's exactly what's happening now ... then the Covid incompetent politicians just sit back and watch the tactic take effect in the community "Divide and Conquer", a jurassic political tactic as old as the hills - we never wake up to it A few flaws in your logic... No Australian politician engineered the pandemic. Mark McGowan is the only Australian political leader who has benefitted politically from the pandemic, so if it was a mass political conspiracy (which it isn't) it is an abject failure. In early 2020, all Australian political leaders were confused by what course of action should be taken... i.e. there was no conspiratorial plan as how to deal with the problem, either for or against their political interests. The need to align to a singular world strategy for the next step though the pandemic is obvious, so the actions that need to be taken by Australian politicians could be against their immediate political interests (particularly if there are logistical cock-ups, which there almost certainly will be). This is particularly true of Mark McGowan who, no doubt, would be happy to continue with state isolation for maybe another year. While you can always evoke the cynical political quip: 'never let a disaster go to waste', in reality disasters are political tornadoes in that they cannot be controlled such that the politician can guarantee and advantageous outcome.

And there's a flaw in your post ... it's not what I was talking about ... you wrote all that for nothing

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 2:07pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 12:08pm: Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 11:55am: Authoritarianism, that's what we have at the moment, and "divide & conquer" can be applied in that also. Select a group (non vaxxed) and go after them, get the vaxxed on-side to assist. If things are still not going well for you, go after the non vaxxed even more, with even more hostility, until the vaxxed are mostly doing the job for you ..... and that's exactly what's happening now ... then the Covid incompetent politicians just sit back and watch the tactic take effect in the community "Divide and Conquer", a jurassic political tactic as old as the hills - we never wake up to it A few flaws in your logic... No Australian politician engineered the pandemic. Mark McGowan is the only Australian political leader who has benefitted politically from the pandemic, so if it was a mass political conspiracy (which it isn't) it is an abject failure. In early 2020, all Australian political leaders were confused by what course of action should be taken... i.e. there was no conspiratorial plan as how to deal with the problem, either for or against their political interests. The need to align to a singular world strategy for the next step though the pandemic is obvious, so the actions that need to be taken by Australian politicians could be against their immediate political interests (particularly if there are logistical cock-ups, which there almost certainly will be). This is particularly true of Mark McGowan who, no doubt, would be happy to continue with state isolation for maybe another year. While you can always evoke the cynical political quip: 'never let a disaster go to waste', in reality disasters are political tornadoes in that they cannot be controlled such that the politician can guarantee and advantageous outcome. And there's a flaw in your post ... it's not what I was talking about ... you wrote all that for nothing

Apart from Mark McGowan (who accidentally benefited due to the state's isolation) , no Australian politician has benefited politically from the pandemic nor from any actions to ameliorate it.

It does not follow that because politicians must act in the event of a disaster is evidence that they are doing so for cynical reasons. Had they engineered the disaster, then you may have a point.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 2:16pm:

It does not follow that because politicians must act in the event of a disaster presumes that they are doing so for cynical reasons. Had they engineered the disaster, then you may have a point.

They didn't have to engineer it to act cynically, they only had to believe there was a certain way to fix it once it arrived on our doorstep ... and that belief was to get the population fully vaccinated ... and when resistance to that appeared, less than human language was employed. Brad Hazzard has been one of the worst offenders, next was Daniel Andrews. The language was essentially "divide and conquer" language, playing one group against the other

The WA Premier was praised for his snap lockdowns ... and that is the more popular method according to consensus of opinion. Did he try playing any group against other groups, like other politicians have done with vaccination?

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 5^th, 2021 at 2:43pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 5th, 2021 at 2:16pm: It does not follow that because politicians must act in the event of a disaster presumes that they are doing so for cynical reasons. Had they engineered the disaster, then you may have a point. They didn't have to engineer it to act cynically, they only had to believe there was a certain way to fix it once it arrived on our doorstep ... and that belief was to get the population fully vaccinated ... and when resistance to that appeared, less than human language was employed. Brad Hazzard has been one of the worst offenders, next was Daniel Andrews. The language was essentially "divide and conquer" language, playing one group against the other The WA Premier was praised for his snap lockdowns ... and that is the more popular method according to consensus of opinion. Did he try playing any group against other groups, like other politicians have done with vaccination?

Yes, politicians are expected to fix disasters... And there's always an unrealistic expectation that they will do so perfectly.

No perfect management of a disaster can be determined when one begins... This is true of nearly every disaster in history.

Usually there's a flailing around to understand the problem in the first place, followed by a plan to deal with it... Unfortunately there usually can't be multiple plans that contradict the expected outcomes or procedures of other plans, nor can politicians ask the 'gods' for a reset, to manage it better (not, at least, and expect an answer, let alone approval).

Much less than a conspiracy theory proved, history proves it's nearly always the cock-up theory that easily explains the shortcomings of a plan to manage a disaster.

To assume that politicians are omniscient and omnipotent when it comes to managing a disaster (such that they have time to act cynically in their political favour) is to unjustifiably apotheosise them.

The Fair Work Commission says that mandating vaccination by employers is not on:


[144] The science is clear that those who have recovered from COVID have at least the same level of protection from COVID as a person who has been vaccinated. There can be absolutely no legitimate basis, then, for mandating vaccination for this group of people.

[145] In short, there is no justifiable basis for employers to mandate COVID vaccinations to meet their health and safety obligations when other options are available to appropriately manage the risk.

...

Final comments

[179] Research in the context of COVID-19 has shown that many who are ‘vaccine-hesitant’ are well educated, work in the health care industry and have questions about how effective the vaccines are in stopping transmission, whether they are safe to take during pregnancy, or if they affect fertility. 37 A far safer and more democratic approach to addressing vaccine hesitancy, and therefore increasing voluntary vaccination uptake, lies in better education, addressing specific and often legitimate concerns that people may hold, and promoting genuine informed consent. It does not lie in censoring differing opinions or removing rights and civil liberties that are fundamental in a democratic nation. It certainly does not lie in the use of highly coercive, undemocratic and unethical mandates.

[180] The statements by politicians that those who are not vaccinated are a threat to public health and should be “locked out of society” and denied the ability to work are not measures to protect public health. They are not about public health and not justified because they do not address the actual risk of COVID. These measures can only be about punishing those who choose not to be vaccinated. If the purpose of the PHOs is genuinely to reduce the spread of COVID, there is no basis for locking out people who do not have COVID, which is easily established by a rapid antigen test. Conversely, a vaccinated person who contracts COVID should be required to isolate until such time as they have recovered.

[181] Blanket rules, such as mandating vaccinations for everyone across a whole profession or industry regardless of the actual risk, fail the tests of proportionality, necessity and reasonableness. It is more than the absolute minimum necessary to combat the crisis and cannot be justified on health grounds. It is a lazy and fundamentally flawed approach to risk management and should be soundly rejected by courts when challenged.

[182] All Australians should vigorously oppose the introduction of a system of medical apartheid and segregation in Australia. It is an abhorrent concept and is morally and ethically wrong, and the anthesis of our democratic way of life and everything we value.

[183] Australians should also vigorously oppose the ongoing censorship of any views that question the current policies regarding COVID. Science is no longer science if it a person is not allowed to question it.

[184] Finally, all Australians, including those who hold or are suspected of holding “anti-vaccination sentiments”, are entitled to the protection of our laws, including the protections afforded by the Fair Work Act. In this regard, one can only hope that the Majority Decision is recognised as an anomaly and not followed by others.

https://www.fwc.gov.au/documents/decisionssigned/html/2021fwcfb6015.htm



Thank you linesmen, thank you ball boys.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 12:34pm:

Quote: Fully vaccinated people who get a breakthrough infection can transmit the virus, CDC director says August 5, 2021 Fully vaccinated people who get a breakthrough infection can pass it on, US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said Thursday.  “Our vaccines are working exceptionally well,” Walensky told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer in reference to fully vaccinated people who get breakthrough infections. “They continue to work well for Delta, with regard to severe illness and death – they prevent it.But what they can't do anymore is prevent transmission.” CDC provided data last week that showed how fully vaccinated people who get a breakthrough infection can carry essentially that same amount of virus as an unvaccinated person, allowing them to transmit the virus just like an unvaccinated person can. That is why the CDC is recommending even vaccinated people wear masks indoors again, Walensky said. https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-08-05-21/h_d2accec79fdc37f422d02c536828ea1e If you fear unvaccinated people you have an irrational fear.

What did the CDC say about this on 5th August?


Quote:

No Significant Difference in Viral Load Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated, Asymptomatic and Symptomatic Groups Infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant Abstract We found no significant difference in cycle threshold values between vaccinated and unvaccinated, asymptomatic and symptomatic groups infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta. Given the substantial proportion of asymptomatic vaccine breakthrough cases with high viral levels, interventions, including masking and testing, should be considered for all in settings with elevated COVID-19 transmission. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264262v1

Vaccine passports achieve nothing the fake news claim being vaccinated will reduce transmission the idiots fall for it hook line and sinker.

Our politicians don't follow the science on this they make policy on what will keep them elected rather than following what science says.

These vaccine passports will achieve nothing they will be an expensive mistake giving people a false sense of security.

When you catch this virus your vaccination status makes no difference with transmitting it. Science deniers will ignore this fact.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 12:34pm:

We have many in this forum who believe we should discriminate against unvaccinated people which shows their ignorance and how nasty they are. There are many reasons why people aren't vaccinated ranging from availability, medical reasons and personal choice. Vaccine passports will achieve nothing

There were a LOT availability issues in in the early days - but this is now, almost, no longer a valid excuse

Doctors are currently being bombarded with demands for 'medical certificates'  - to loophole a vaccine exemption
It seems there are people there who have a serious reaction to vaccines - without ever having had one before
Perhaps any new certificates cite "unatural phobia, bordering on mental impairment"  as the opt out reason

I wouldn't see "personal choice" - or being a new recruit or "born again anti-vaxxer" as holding much credibility



REGARDLESS, the Fair Work Commission has ALREADY ruled that an employer has EVERY LEGAL RIGHT to demand an prospective employee be bound by "Terms and Conditions of Employment"

No JAB - No JOB



"Terms and Conditions of Employment" in a work contract are nothing new
The annual 'flu' shot has been included in MANY employment contracts - over many decades


Making this government "passport" idea, obsolete
(but not before the feds have spent a billion or two - setting it up

aquascoot wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 1:03pm:

they created a class of "other" called the unvaccinated in days not too distant this would have been the jews in nazi germany but its the same principle

And many THOUSANDS died of typhoid

- not only Jews, though you'd be excused for thinking their's were the only lives that mattered, as 'history books' tell the tale

If ONLY they'd all had tyyphoid vaccinations

buzzanddidj wrote on Oct 8^th, 2021 at 1:44pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 12:34pm: We have many in this forum who believe we should discriminate against unvaccinated people which shows their ignorance and how nasty they are. There are many reasons why people aren't vaccinated ranging from availability, medical reasons and personal choice. Vaccine passports will achieve nothing There were a LOT availability issues in in the early days - but this is now, almost, no longer a valid excuse Doctors are currently being bombarded with demands for 'medical certificates'  - to loophole a vaccine exemption It seems there are people there who have a serious reaction to vaccines - without ever having had one before Perhaps any new certificates cite "unatural phobia, bordering on mental impairment"  as the opt out reason I wouldn't see "personal choice" - or being a new recruit or "born again anti-vaxxer" as holding much credibility REGARDLESS, the Fair Work Commission has ALREADY ruled that an employer has EVERY LEGAL RIGHT to demand an prospective employee be bound by "Terms and Conditions of Employment" No JAB - No JOB "Terms and Conditions of Employment" in a work contract are nothing new The annual 'flu' shot has been included in MANY employment contracts - over many decades Making this government "passport" idea, obsolete (but not before the feds have spent a billion or two - setting it up

NSW is opening up again on Monday we don't have vaccine passports.

---

Excluding unvaccinated people from society is something pushed by leftist control freaks there is no scientific justification for this.

These ignorant control freaks are science deniers if they claim unvaccinated people are a risk for spreading this virus when the evidence shows there is no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in spreading this virus. These control freaks are spreading dangerous misinformation.

The data clearly shows aysmptomatic vaccinated people can be superspreaders without even realising it.



Quote:

Shedding of Infectious SARS-CoV-2 Despite Vaccination Outbreak investigations suggest that vaccinated persons can spread Delta 3,4. Combined with other studies 2–5, these data indicate that vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals infected with the Delta variant might transmit infection. Importantly, we show that infectious SARS-CoV-2 is frequently found even in vaccinated persons when specimen Ct values are low. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v4.full-text

For the idiots who pretend to understand science and claim this is only a pre print that hasn't been peer reviewed they should listen to Fauci who confirms this as graphs in link comparing vaxxed and unvaxxed are very similar to CDC data. https://twitter.com/PuntersForum/status/1434151697216016392

I disagree with Fauci on Delta changing everything specialists like Geert Vandenbosch have said this has always been the case.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 8^th, 2021 at 5:14pm:

NSW is opening up again on Monday we don't have vaccine passports.

Yes, and those of us with more than a single brain-cell are already preparing for the next wave.

Kat wrote on Oct 9^th, 2021 at 8:52am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 8th, 2021 at 5:14pm: NSW is opening up again on Monday we don't have vaccine passports. Yes, and those of us with more than a single brain-cell are already preparing for the next wave.

Vaccine passports and vaccine certificates only give ignorant people a false sense of security. There is no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in spreading this virus why are you ignoring the science are you an ignorant science denying control freak?

When has any of the modeling even been close why do these grifters refuse to pay back jobkeeper and why do we waste money on these people?

---

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 9^th, 2021 at 9:03am:

Kat wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 8:52am: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 8th, 2021 at 5:14pm: NSW is opening up again on Monday we don't have vaccine passports. Yes, and those of us with more than a single brain-cell are already preparing for the next wave. Vaccine passports and vaccine certificates only give ignorant people a false sense of security. There is no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in spreading this virus ...

Mounting evidence suggests COVID vaccines do reduce transmission

"... how likely are vaccinated people to actually pass the virus on, if they do get infected? Evidence is increasing that, not only do COVID-19 vaccines either stop you getting sick or substantially reduce the severity of your symptoms, they are also likely to substantially reduce the chance of transmitting the virus to others."

"In April, Public Health England reported the results of a large study of COVID-19 transmission involving more than 365,000 households with a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated members.

"It found immunisation with either the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccine reduced the chance of onward virus transmission by 40–60%. This means that if someone became infected after being vaccinated, they were only around half as likely to pass their infection on to others compared to infected people who were not vaccinated."

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 9^th, 2021 at 9:27am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 9:03am: Kat wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 8:52am: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 8th, 2021 at 5:14pm: NSW is opening up again on Monday we don't have vaccine passports. Yes, and those of us with more than a single brain-cell are already preparing for the next wave. Vaccine passports and vaccine certificates only give ignorant people a false sense of security. There is no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in spreading this virus ... Mounting evidence suggests COVID vaccines do reduce transmission "... how likely are vaccinated people to actually pass the virus on, if they do get infected? Evidence is increasing that, not only do COVID-19 vaccines either stop you getting sick or substantially reduce the severity of your symptoms, they are also likely to substantially reduce the chance of transmitting the virus to others." "In April, Public Health England reported the results of a large study of COVID-19 transmission involving more than 365,000 households with a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated members. "It found immunisation with either the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccine reduced the chance of onward virus transmission by 40–60%. This means that if someone became infected after being vaccinated, they were only around half as likely to pass their infection on to others compared to infected people who were not vaccinated."

This thread is good it exposes ignorant fools like pecca who push dangerous misinformation while claiming it's science.

With science when something is proven to be wrong it's thrown out because it's garbage science deals in the truth.
It's amusing how those who claim to follow the science don't have a clue on how science works and prove to everyone how ignorant and stupid they really are.

Little peccas article was published may 10 2021 what was thought to be true has proven to be bullshit and discarded.


Quote:

August 5, 2021 Fully vaccinated people who get a breakthrough infection can transmit the virus, CDC director says “Our vaccines are working exceptionally well,” Walensky told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer in reference to fully vaccinated people who get breakthrough infections. “They continue to work well for Delta, with regard to severe illness and death – they prevent it. But what they can't do anymore is prevent transmission.” CDC provided data last week that showed how fully vaccinated people who get a breakthrough infection can carry essentially that same amount of virus as an unvaccinated person, allowing them to transmit the virus just like an unvaccinated person can https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-08-05-21/h_d2accec79fdc37f422d02c536828ea1e

Substantial breakthrough cases = sh!tload of vaccinated people getting infected

Quote:

September 29, 2021. No Significant Difference in Viral Load Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated, Asymptomatic and Symptomatic Groups Infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant We found no significant difference in cycle threshold values between vaccinated and unvaccinated, asymptomatic and symptomatic groups infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta.Given the substantial proportion of asymptomatic vaccine breakthrough cases with high viral levels, interventions, including masking and testing, should be considered for all in settings with elevated COVID-19 transmission. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264262v1.full-text

This one confirms asymptomatic vaccinated people can be superspreaders without even realising it. 95% of vaccinated people (37 from 39) in that study had same viral load as unvaccinated people therefore no difference with vaxxed and unvaxxed people in spreading Kung Flu.


Quote:

August 24, 2021. Shedding of Infectious SARS-CoV-2 Despite Vaccination The SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant might cause high viral loads, is highly transmissible, and contains mutations that confer partial immune escape 1,2. Outbreak investigations suggest that vaccinated persons can spread Delta 3,4. We compared RT-PCR cycle threshold (Ct) data from 699 swab specimens collected in Wisconsin 29 June through 31 July 2021 and tested with a qualitative assay by a single contract laboratory. We observed low Ct values (<25) in 212 of 310 fully vaccinated (68%; Figure 1A) and 246 of 389 (63%) unvaccinated individuals. Testing a subset of low-Ct samples revealed infectious SARS-CoV-2 in 15 of 17 specimens (88%) from unvaccinated individuals and 37 of 39 (95%) from vaccinated people (Figure 1B). https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v4.full

The evidence is clear there is no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed with spreading this virus, here is Fauci confirming this fact.- https://twitter.com/PuntersForum/status/1434151697216016392

Fools like pecca should stop spreading dangerous misinformation.

Quote:

Discrimination with unvaccinated people

Discrimination is often a good thing.

Particularly when it saves lives.

Dnarever wrote on Oct 9^th, 2021 at 10:43am:

Quote: Discrimination with unvaccinated people Discrimination is often a good thing. Particularly when it saves lives.

It is exactly what has happened historically with every disease outbreak.

Self-preservation in the event of a disease outbreak is instinctive.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 9^th, 2021 at 9:03am:

Kat wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 8:52am: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 8th, 2021 at 5:14pm: NSW is opening up again on Monday we don't have vaccine passports. Yes, and those of us with more than a single brain-cell are already preparing for the next wave. Vaccine passports and vaccine certificates only give ignorant people a false sense of security. There is no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in spreading this virus why are you ignoring the science are you an ignorant science denying control freak? When has any of the modeling even been close why do these grifters refuse to pay back jobkeeper and why do we waste money on these people?

Quote:

Vaccine passports and vaccine certificates only give ignorant people a false sense of security. There is no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in spreading this virus

Vaccinated people spread the virus less, If close to the vaccination a lot less but it deteriorates over time.

You seem to ignore the difference in catching the virus and the likely severity if you do.

The attitude you express here would mean that the next wave is already locked in and its going to be both soon and real bad.

Dnarever wrote on Oct 9^th, 2021 at 10:56am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 9:03am: Kat wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 8:52am: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 8th, 2021 at 5:14pm: NSW is opening up again on Monday we don't have vaccine passports. Yes, and those of us with more than a single brain-cell are already preparing for the next wave. Vaccine passports and vaccine certificates only give ignorant people a false sense of security. There is no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in spreading this virus why are you ignoring the science are you an ignorant science denying control freak? When has any of the modeling even been close why do these grifters refuse to pay back jobkeeper and why do we waste money on these people? Quote: Vaccine passports and vaccine certificates only give ignorant people a false sense of security. There is no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in spreading this virus Vaccinated people spread the virus less, If close to the vaccination a lot less but it deteriorates over time. You seem to ignore the difference in catching the virus and the likely severity if you do. The attitude you express here would mean that the next wave is already locked in and its going to be both soon and real bad.

No difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in spreading this virus why are you ignoring the science on this?

The vaccine is non sterlising it doesn't prevent you from catching virus carrying and spreading it the only thing the vaccine does it train your immune system to recognise spike protein and fight virus. The vaccine is supposed to prevent serious illness when you catch virus it does nothing else.

It's high school science with throwing out old theories that have proved to be wrong and embracing new correct theory it's clear idiots like you have no idea with the basics of science and it's here for everyone to see with posts from ignorant people like you.

Mounting evidence suggests COVID vaccines do reduce transmission

"... how likely are vaccinated people to actually pass the virus on, if they do get infected? Evidence is increasing that, not only do COVID-19 vaccines either stop you getting sick or substantially reduce the severity of your symptoms, they are also likely to substantially reduce the chance of transmitting the virus to others."

"In April, Public Health England reported the results of a large study of COVID-19 transmission involving more than 365,000 households with a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated members.

"It found immunisation with either the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccine reduced the chance of onward virus transmission by 40–60%. This means that if someone became infected after being vaccinated, they were only around half as likely to pass their infection on to others compared to infected people who were not vaccinated."

Can't argue with the science.

Dnarever wrote on Oct 9^th, 2021 at 10:56am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 9:03am: Kat wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 8:52am: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 8th, 2021 at 5:14pm: NSW is opening up again on Monday we don't have vaccine passports. Yes, and those of us with more than a single brain-cell are already preparing for the next wave. Vaccine passports and vaccine certificates only give ignorant people a false sense of security. There is no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in spreading this virus why are you ignoring the science are you an ignorant science denying control freak? When has any of the modeling even been close why do these grifters refuse to pay back jobkeeper and why do we waste money on these people? Quote: Vaccine passports and vaccine certificates only give ignorant people a false sense of security. There is no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in spreading this virus Vaccinated people spread the virus less...

That's 100% correct.

Mounting evidence suggests COVID vaccines do reduce transmission

"... how likely are vaccinated people to actually pass the virus on, if they do get infected? Evidence is increasing that, not only do COVID-19 vaccines either stop you getting sick or substantially reduce the severity of your symptoms, they are also likely to substantially reduce the chance of transmitting the virus to others."

"In April, Public Health England reported the results of a large study of COVID-19 transmission involving more than 365,000 households with a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated members.

"It found immunisation with either the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccine reduced the chance of onward virus transmission by 40–60%. This means that if someone became infected after being vaccinated, they were only around half as likely to pass their infection on to others compared to infected people who were not vaccinated."

Can't argue with the science.

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 9^th, 2021 at 11:43am:

Can't argue with the science.

The science says no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed with spreading this virus this is shown in post 77.

You're an idiot pushing psuedoscience

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 9^th, 2021 at 10:22am:

This thread is good it exposes ignorant fools like pecca who push dangerous misinformation while claiming it's science.

With science when something is proven to be wrong it's thrown out because it's garbage science deals in the truth.
It's amusing how those who claim to follow the science don't have a clue on how science works and prove to everyone how ignorant and stupid they really are.




Quote:

August 5, 2021 Fully vaccinated people who get a breakthrough infection can transmit the virus, CDC director says “Our vaccines are working exceptionally well,” Walensky told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer in reference to fully vaccinated people who get breakthrough infections. “They continue to work well for Delta, with regard to severe illness and death – they prevent it. But what they can't do anymore is prevent transmission.” CDC provided data last week that showed how fully vaccinated people who get a breakthrough infection can carry essentially that same amount of virus as an unvaccinated person, allowing them to transmit the virus just like an unvaccinated person can https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-08-05-21/h_d2accec79fdc37f422d02c536828ea1e

Substantial breakthrough cases = sh!tload of vaccinated people getting infected

Quote:

September 29, 2021. No Significant Difference in Viral Load Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated, Asymptomatic and Symptomatic Groups Infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant We found no significant difference in cycle threshold values between vaccinated and unvaccinated, asymptomatic and symptomatic groups infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta.Given the substantial proportion of asymptomatic vaccine breakthrough cases with high viral levels, interventions, including masking and testing, should be considered for all in settings with elevated COVID-19 transmission. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264262v1.full-text

This one confirms asymptomatic vaccinated people can be superspreaders without even realising it. 95% of vaccinated people (37 from 39) in that study had same viral load as unvaccinated people therefore no difference with vaxxed and unvaxxed people in spreading Kung Flu.


Quote:

August 24, 2021. Shedding of Infectious SARS-CoV-2 Despite Vaccination The SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant might cause high viral loads, is highly transmissible, and contains mutations that confer partial immune escape 1,2. Outbreak investigations suggest that vaccinated persons can spread Delta 3,4. We compared RT-PCR cycle threshold (Ct) data from 699 swab specimens collected in Wisconsin 29 June through 31 July 2021 and tested with a qualitative assay by a single contract laboratory. We observed low Ct values (<25) in 212 of 310 fully vaccinated (68%; Figure 1A) and 246 of 389 (63%) unvaccinated individuals. Testing a subset of low-Ct samples revealed infectious SARS-CoV-2 in 15 of 17 specimens (88%) from unvaccinated individuals and 37 of 39 (95%) from vaccinated people (Figure 1B). https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v4.full

The evidence is clear there is no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed with spreading this virus, here is Fauci confirming this fact.- https://twitter.com/PuntersForum/status/1434151697216016392

The science deniers in this forum prove they're idiots who are totally ignorant with the basics of science even high school kids who study science know old theories that have been proven wrong must be thrown out because it's bullshit and new truths must be embraced.

The idiots who dispute new evidence show they don't even have a basic high school understanding with science.

;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 9^th, 2021 at 12:06pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 10:22am: This thread is good it exposes ignorant fools like pecca who push dangerous misinformation while claiming it's science. With science when something is proven to be wrong it's thrown out because it's garbage science deals in the truth. It's amusing how those who claim to follow the science don't have a clue on how science works and prove to everyone how ignorant and stupid they really are. Quote: August 5, 2021 Fully vaccinated people who get a breakthrough infection can transmit the virus, CDC director says “Our vaccines are working exceptionally well,” Walensky told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer in reference to fully vaccinated people who get breakthrough infections. “They continue to work well for Delta, with regard to severe illness and death – they prevent it. But what they can't do anymore is prevent transmission.” CDC provided data last week that showed how fully vaccinated people who get a breakthrough infection can carry essentially that same amount of virus as an unvaccinated person, allowing them to transmit the virus just like an unvaccinated person can https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-08-05-21/h_d2accec79fdc37f422d02c536828ea1e Substantial breakthrough cases = sh!tload of vaccinated people getting infected [quote] September 29, 2021. No Significant Difference in Viral Load Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated, Asymptomatic and Symptomatic Groups Infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant We found no significant difference in cycle threshold values between vaccinated and unvaccinated, asymptomatic and symptomatic groups infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta.Given the substantial proportion of asymptomatic vaccine breakthrough cases with high viral levels, interventions, including masking and testing, should be considered for all in settings with elevated COVID-19 transmission. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264262v1.full-text

This one confirms asymptomatic vaccinated people can be superspreaders without even realising it. 95% of vaccinated people (37 from 39) in that study had same viral load as unvaccinated people therefore no difference with vaxxed and unvaxxed people in spreading Kung Flu.


Quote:

August 24, 2021. Shedding of Infectious SARS-CoV-2 Despite Vaccination The SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant might cause high viral loads, is highly transmissible, and contains mutations that confer partial immune escape 1,2. Outbreak investigations suggest that vaccinated persons can spread Delta 3,4. We compared RT-PCR cycle threshold (Ct) data from 699 swab specimens collected in Wisconsin 29 June through 31 July 2021 and tested with a qualitative assay by a single contract laboratory. We observed low Ct values (<25) in 212 of 310 fully vaccinated (68%; Figure 1A) and 246 of 389 (63%) unvaccinated individuals. Testing a subset of low-Ct samples revealed infectious SARS-CoV-2 in 15 of 17 specimens (88%) from unvaccinated individuals and 37 of 39 (95%) from vaccinated people (Figure 1B). https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v4.full

The evidence is clear there is no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed with spreading this virus, here is Fauci confirming this fact.- https://twitter.com/PuntersForum/status/1434151697216016392

The science deniers in this forum prove they're idiots who are totally ignorant with the basics of science even high school kids who study science know old theories that have been proven wrong must be thrown out because it's bullshit and new truths must be embraced.

The idiots who dispute new evidence show they don't even have a basic high school understanding with science.

;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D

[/quote]


Quote:

Fully vaccinated people who get a breakthrough infection can transmit the virus, CDC director says

Yes they can but not all of them and mostly not as much You see the difference where people who are unvaccinated will be contagious.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 9^th, 2021 at 11:56am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 11:43am: Can't argue with the science. The science says no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed with spreading this virus ...

Incorrect.

Mounting evidence suggests COVID vaccines do reduce transmission

"... how likely are vaccinated people to actually pass the virus on, if they do get infected? Evidence is increasing that, not only do COVID-19 vaccines either stop you getting sick or substantially reduce the severity of your symptoms, they are also likely to substantially reduce the chance of transmitting the virus to others."

"In April, Public Health England reported the results of a large study of COVID-19 transmission involving more than 365,000 households with a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated members.

"It found immunisation with either the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccine reduced the chance of onward virus transmission by 40–60%. This means that if someone became infected after being vaccinated, they were only around half as likely to pass their infection on to others compared to infected people who were not vaccinated."

Can't argue with the science.

Dnarever wrote on Oct 9^th, 2021 at 12:21pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 12:06pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 10:22am: This thread is good it exposes ignorant fools like pecca who push dangerous misinformation while claiming it's science. With science when something is proven to be wrong it's thrown out because it's garbage science deals in the truth. It's amusing how those who claim to follow the science don't have a clue on how science works and prove to everyone how ignorant and stupid they really are. Quote: August 5, 2021 Fully vaccinated people who get a breakthrough infection can transmit the virus, CDC director says “Our vaccines are working exceptionally well,” Walensky told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer in reference to fully vaccinated people who get breakthrough infections. “They continue to work well for Delta, with regard to severe illness and death – they prevent it. But what they can't do anymore is prevent transmission.” CDC provided data last week that showed how fully vaccinated people who get a breakthrough infection can carry essentially that same amount of virus as an unvaccinated person, allowing them to transmit the virus just like an unvaccinated person can https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-08-05-21/h_d2accec79fdc37f422d02c536828ea1e Substantial breakthrough cases = sh!tload of vaccinated people getting infected [quote] September 29, 2021. No Significant Difference in Viral Load Between Vaccinated and Unvaccinated, Asymptomatic and Symptomatic Groups Infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant We found no significant difference in cycle threshold values between vaccinated and unvaccinated, asymptomatic and symptomatic groups infected with SARS-CoV-2 Delta.Given the substantial proportion of asymptomatic vaccine breakthrough cases with high viral levels, interventions, including masking and testing, should be considered for all in settings with elevated COVID-19 transmission. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264262v1.full-text This one confirms asymptomatic vaccinated people can be superspreaders without even realising it. 95% of vaccinated people (37 from 39) in that study had same viral load as unvaccinated people therefore no difference with vaxxed and unvaxxed people in spreading Kung Flu. [quote] August 24, 2021. Shedding of Infectious SARS-CoV-2 Despite Vaccination The SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant might cause high viral loads, is highly transmissible, and contains mutations that confer partial immune escape 1,2. Outbreak investigations suggest that vaccinated persons can spread Delta 3,4. We compared RT-PCR cycle threshold (Ct) data from 699 swab specimens collected in Wisconsin 29 June through 31 July 2021 and tested with a qualitative assay by a single contract laboratory. We observed low Ct values (<25) in 212 of 310 fully vaccinated (68%; Figure 1A) and 246 of 389 (63%) unvaccinated individuals. Testing a subset of low-Ct samples revealed infectious SARS-CoV-2 in 15 of 17 specimens (88%) from unvaccinated individuals and 37 of 39 (95%) from vaccinated people (Figure 1B). https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.31.21261387v4.full

The evidence is clear there is no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed with spreading this virus, here is Fauci confirming this fact.- https://twitter.com/PuntersForum/status/1434151697216016392

The science deniers in this forum prove they're idiots who are totally ignorant with the basics of science even high school kids who study science know old theories that have been proven wrong must be thrown out because it's bullshit and new truths must be embraced.

The idiots who dispute new evidence show they don't even have a basic high school understanding with science.

;D ;D ;D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D

[/quote]


Quote:

Fully vaccinated people who get a breakthrough infection can transmit the virus, CDC director says

Yes they can but not all of them and mostly not as much You see the difference where people who are unvaccinated will be contagious.[/quote]

Did you looks at the graphs in links or did you fail to comprehend them? I reckon you don't have any idea what data on graphs prove or you wouldn't be showing everyone how ignorant you are.

Asymptomatic vaccinated people carry the same viral load as unvaxxed they are superspreaders without even realising it.

There is no difference with viral load in nose between vaxxed and unvaxxed symptomatic or asymptomatic which means every time they breathe out they're spreading this virus which is aerosol what part of that are you too stupid to comprehend?

Infected people are contagious vax status makes no difference what part of that do you fail to comprehend?

The vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting infected carrying and spreading this virus it only reduces your chance of serious illness when you get infected what part of that do you fail to comprehend?

Click on Twitter link and listen to Fauci on this he says no difference.

Mounting evidence suggests COVID vaccines do reduce transmission

"... how likely are vaccinated people to actually pass the virus on, if they do get infected? Evidence is increasing that, not only do COVID-19 vaccines either stop you getting sick or substantially reduce the severity of your symptoms, they are also likely to substantially reduce the chance of transmitting the virus to others."

"In April, Public Health England reported the results of a large study of COVID-19 transmission involving more than 365,000 households with a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated members.

"It found immunisation with either the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccine reduced the chance of onward virus transmission by 40–60%. This means that if someone became infected after being vaccinated, they were only around half as likely to pass their infection on to others compared to infected people who were not vaccinated."

Can't argue with the science.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 9^th, 2021 at 12:31pm:

The vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting infected carrying and spreading this virus  ...

Correct, and nobody in the world has ever said anything to the contrary.

Meanwhile:

Mounting evidence suggests COVID vaccines do reduce transmission

"... how likely are vaccinated people to actually pass the virus on, if they do get infected? Evidence is increasing that, not only do COVID-19 vaccines either stop you getting sick or substantially reduce the severity of your symptoms, they are also likely to substantially reduce the chance of transmitting the virus to others."

"In April, Public Health England reported the results of a large study of COVID-19 transmission involving more than 365,000 households with a mix of vaccinated and unvaccinated members.

"It found immunisation with either the Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccine reduced the chance of onward virus transmission by 40–60%. This means that if someone became infected after being vaccinated, they were only around half as likely to pass their infection on to others compared to infected people who were not vaccinated."

Can't argue with the science.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 9^th, 2021 at 10:48am:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 10:43am: Quote: Discrimination with unvaccinated people Discrimination is often a good thing. Particularly when it saves lives. It is exactly what has happened historically with every disease outbreak. Self-preservation in the event of a disease outbreak is instinctive.

Yeah, and the politicians are being law-of-the-jungle instinctive instead of being intelligent humans

We wouldn't have Delta here at all if they'd had 20th century brains rather than their jurassic brains that are similar to Nazi Gestapo brains

"We will govern for all Australians, then we'll discriminate like hell against you in all aspects of your worthless lives" - Globalist Lib Lab politicians' Motto

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 9^th, 2021 at 11:10am:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 10:56am: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 9:03am: Kat wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 8:52am: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 8th, 2021 at 5:14pm: NSW is opening up again on Monday we don't have vaccine passports. Yes, and those of us with more than a single brain-cell are already preparing for the next wave. Vaccine passports and vaccine certificates only give ignorant people a false sense of security. There is no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in spreading this virus why are you ignoring the science are you an ignorant science denying control freak? When has any of the modeling even been close why do these grifters refuse to pay back jobkeeper and why do we waste money on these people? Quote: Vaccine passports and vaccine certificates only give ignorant people a false sense of security. There is no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in spreading this virus Vaccinated people spread the virus less, If close to the vaccination a lot less but it deteriorates over time. You seem to ignore the difference in catching the virus and the likely severity if you do. The attitude you express here would mean that the next wave is already locked in and its going to be both soon and real bad. No difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in spreading this virus why are you ignoring the science on this? The vaccine is non sterlising it doesn't prevent you from catching virus carrying and spreading it the only thing the vaccine does it train your immune system to recognise spike protein and fight virus. The vaccine is supposed to prevent serious illness when you catch virus it does nothing else. It's high school science with throwing out old theories that have proved to be wrong and embracing new correct theory it's clear idiots like you have no idea with the basics of science and it's here for everyone to see with posts from ignorant people like you.

The vast majority of people dying in hospital with covid-19 believed what you do - once.

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 9^th, 2021 at 12:48pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 10:48am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 10:43am: Quote: Discrimination with unvaccinated people Discrimination is often a good thing. Particularly when it saves lives. It is exactly what has happened historically with every disease outbreak. Self-preservation in the event of a disease outbreak is instinctive. Yeah, and the politicians are being law-of-the-jungle instinctive instead of being intelligent humans We wouldn't have Delta here at all if they'd had 20th century brains rather than their jurassic brains that are similar to Nazi Gestapo brains

No. Politicians around the world had to deal with a world health issue realising that the world was spectacularly unprepared for a new disease.

Most countries presumed it would be an influenza outbreak which most were somewhat prepared for.

Initially they were all flummoxed as to what the response should be and turned to their respective country's best medical experts to offer their best advice.

What resulted was generally haphazard and in many cases severe, but in the general right direction to control the pandemic.

In nearly all cases, when large-scale emergencies' responses fall short, are initially uncoordinated and/or not as effective as they could have been if those in charge were given a second shot after a magical 'reset', its nearly always the 'cock-up' theory that's responsible not the 'conspiracy' theory.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 9^th, 2021 at 3:50pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 12:48pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 10:48am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 10:43am: Quote: Discrimination with unvaccinated people Discrimination is often a good thing. Particularly when it saves lives. It is exactly what has happened historically with every disease outbreak. Self-preservation in the event of a disease outbreak is instinctive. Yeah, and the politicians are being law-of-the-jungle instinctive instead of being intelligent humans We wouldn't have Delta here at all if they'd had 20th century brains rather than their jurassic brains that are similar to Nazi Gestapo brains No. Politicians around the world had to deal with a world health issue realising that the world was spectacularly unprepared for a new disease. Most countries presumed it would be an influenza outbreak which most were somewhat prepared for. Initially they were all flummoxed as to what the response should be and turned to their respective country's best medical experts to offer their best advice. What resulted was generally haphazard and in many cases severe, but in the general right direction to control the pandemic. In nearly all cases, when large-scale emergencies' responses fall short, are initially uncoordinated and/or not as effective as they could have been if those in charge were given a second shot after a magical 'reset', its nearly always the 'cock-up' theory that's responsible not the 'conspiracy' theory.

There would be records of the Spanish Flu and other virus's etc since then that they could have referred to. It's not as if it hasn't happened before. So "instinctive" shouldn't really come into it, they could act according to the information that's already available to them

Where politicians do use instinct, is when dealing with the community in a time such as this. It's a type of "panic" that governs their thoughts, and it manifests in irrationality of behavior, sending cops out to bang heads on concrete floors for example. Letting infected foreigners fly in, another irrational response

There's not many calm and collected heads out there, just panicking fools with jurassic instinct tendencies - "kill or be killed" - "Get him before he gets us" ... this type of idiocy

   

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 9^th, 2021 at 4:49pm:

There would be records of the Spanish Flu and other virus's etc since then that they could have referred to. It's not as if it hasn't happened before. So "instinctive" shouldn't really come into it, they could act according to the information that's already available to them Where politicians do use instinct, is when dealing with the community in a time such as this. It's a type of "panic" that governs their thoughts, and it manifests in irrationality of behavior, sending cops out to bang heads on concrete floors for example. Letting infected foreigners fly in, another irrational response There's not many calm and collected heads out there, just panicking fools with jurassic instinct tendencies - "kill or be killed" - "Get him before he gets us" ... this type of idiocy

Records of the Spanish Flu? Yes... And much of what they did then, was done with this pandemic... Before that there was the outbreak of the plague in Sydney where extreme measures were taken to exterminate it.

Throughout history, the response always has been the same: to ostracise the sick and insulate the healthy from the sick, with harsh (lethal even) measures to deal with the sick who attempted to co-mingle with the healthy. During the black death, villages that were spared the plague would threaten to kill strangers who attempted to enter the village and often they did.

The instinctive pathogenic response is to recoil from the source (or the perceived source) of the pathogen. It's not a rational response, but it is a human one and the methods by which we use to protect the healthy from the sick are the same as they have been throughout history and will continue into the future; for the rest of human existence.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 9^th, 2021 at 9:03am:

Kat wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 8:52am: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 8th, 2021 at 5:14pm: NSW is opening up again on Monday we don't have vaccine passports. Yes, and those of us with more than a single brain-cell are already preparing for the next wave. Vaccine passports and vaccine certificates only give ignorant people a false sense of security. There is no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in spreading this virus why are you ignoring the science are you an ignorant science denying control freak? When has any of the modeling even been close why do these grifters refuse to pay back jobkeeper and why do we waste money on these people?

I've told you before - trying (and failing) to denigrate and malign me won't make you any more correct.

Or any less incorrect.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 9^th, 2021 at 5:43pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 4:49pm: There would be records of the Spanish Flu and other virus's etc since then that they could have referred to. It's not as if it hasn't happened before. So "instinctive" shouldn't really come into it, they could act according to the information that's already available to them Where politicians do use instinct, is when dealing with the community in a time such as this. It's a type of "panic" that governs their thoughts, and it manifests in irrationality of behavior, sending cops out to bang heads on concrete floors for example. Letting infected foreigners fly in, another irrational response There's not many calm and collected heads out there, just panicking fools with jurassic instinct tendencies - "kill or be killed" - "Get him before he gets us" ... this type of idiocy     Records of the Spanish Flu? Yes... And much of what they did then, was done with this pandemic... Before that there was the outbreak of the plague in Sydney where extreme measures were taken to exterminate it. Throughout history, the response always has been the same: to ostracise the sick and insulate the healthy from the sick, with harsh (lethal even) measures to deal with the sick who attempted to co-mingle with the healthy. During the black death, villages that were spared the plague would threaten to kill strangers who attempted to enter the village and often they did. The instinctive pathogenic response is to recoil from the source (or the perceived source) of the pathogen. It's not a rational response, but it is a human one and the methods by which we use to protect the healthy from the sick are the same as they have been throughout history and will continue into the future; for the rest of human existence.

That's right, and the first instinctive reaction of the Libs and Labs is still to "counter-attack" and "take revenge", even now, moving into the 21st Century, They always employ those instinctive attitudes against constituents they don't like. The people they don't like are those that don't immediately do as they're told. The politicians have turned Covid into a war-zone ... there's an enemy, and the enemy is not Covid any longer, it's dreaded "resistance insurgents" ... they've even got the Police thinking that way

The Libs and Labs sure know how to create disharmony when they feel like doing it ...... then later they'll say their usual "We need harmony in our society" .... they are nothing more than jurassic instinctive manipulators - way past their use-by date. Just lately we often hear people say they are sick and tired of them

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 10:40am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 5:43pm: Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 4:49pm: There would be records of the Spanish Flu and other virus's etc since then that they could have referred to. It's not as if it hasn't happened before. So "instinctive" shouldn't really come into it, they could act according to the information that's already available to them Where politicians do use instinct, is when dealing with the community in a time such as this. It's a type of "panic" that governs their thoughts, and it manifests in irrationality of behavior, sending cops out to bang heads on concrete floors for example. Letting infected foreigners fly in, another irrational response There's not many calm and collected heads out there, just panicking fools with jurassic instinct tendencies - "kill or be killed" - "Get him before he gets us" ... this type of idiocy     Records of the Spanish Flu? Yes... And much of what they did then, was done with this pandemic... Before that there was the outbreak of the plague in Sydney where extreme measures were taken to exterminate it. Throughout history, the response always has been the same: to ostracise the sick and insulate the healthy from the sick, with harsh (lethal even) measures to deal with the sick who attempted to co-mingle with the healthy. During the black death, villages that were spared the plague would threaten to kill strangers who attempted to enter the village and often they did. The instinctive pathogenic response is to recoil from the source (or the perceived source) of the pathogen. It's not a rational response, but it is a human one and the methods by which we use to protect the healthy from the sick are the same as they have been throughout history and will continue into the future; for the rest of human existence. That's right, and the first instinctive reaction of the Libs and Labs is still to "counter-attack" and "take revenge", even now, moving into the 21st Century, They always employ those instinctive attitudes against constituents they don't like. The people they don't like are those that don't immediately do as they're told. The politicians have turned Covid into a war-zone ... there's an enemy, and the enemy is not Covid any longer, it's dreaded "resistance insurgents" ... they've even got the Police thinking that way The Libs and Labs sure know how to create disharmony when they feel like doing it ...... then later they'll say their usual "We need harmony in our society" .... they are nothing more than jurassic instinctive manipulators - way past their use-by date. Just lately we often hear people say they are sick and tired of them

It wouldn't matter who was in power (even if it were the Greens or any party), the human response would be the same.

In humans, the primal, instinctive pathogenic response is also co-opted as the mechanism by which we respond to moral disgust. We recoil from those who transgress collective or personal morality in the same way we recoil from pathogens, which means our primary response to evidence of contagious sickness usually triggers both. In short, the sick can disgust us in two ways.

The suppression of moral disgust to sickness has only been possible in the modern era (over the last, say, 150 years) because advances in science has taught us that sickness is not the result of god's (or a higher metaphysical power's) moral displeasure.

Yet, while, as humans, our higher facultires can suppress this response, they will still be triggered when we see / comprehend physical sickness, moral transgressions or the sight of sickness triggering both; varying in intensity from aversion to revulsion.

If you imagine that the response to this virus is significant, imagine if it had a 30%+ death rate. In that circumstance it would not be an exaggeration to suggest that those who were sick, and who attempted to infiltrate healthy communities, would be shot dead on sight.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 1:37pm:

It wouldn't matter who was in power (even if it were the Greens or any party), the human response would be the same. In humans, the primal, instinctive pathogenic response is also co-opted as the mechanism by which we respond to moral disgust. We recoil from those who transgress collective or personal morality in the same way we recoil from pathogens, which means our primary response to evidence of contagious sickness usually triggers both. In short, the sick can disgust us in two ways. The suppression of moral disgust to sickness has only been possible in the modern era (over the last, say, 150 years) because advances in science has taught us that sickness is not the result of god's (or a higher metaphysical power's) moral displeasure. Yet, while, as humans, our higher facultires can suppress this response, they will still be triggered when we see / comprehend physical sickness, moral transgressions or the sight of sickness triggering both; varying in intensity from aversion to revulsion. If you imagine that the response to this virus is significant, imagine if it had a 30%+ death rate. In that circumstance it would not be an exaggeration to suggest that those who were sick, and who attempted to infiltrate healthy communities, would be shot dead on sight.

There's been great advances in medical science, but very little advancement in the science of self-control. The use of Reptilian brains seems to be the go in the community and parliaments as far as this Covid thing goes

What happened to human dignity, is that just for some, and bugger the rest? .... Discrimination cancels out human dignity ... but I'm noticing praise and approval for those who are doing the discriminating

We have a long way to go before we finally eradicate "feel good" instincts that destroy other constituents in our so called "We Are One" society. It's still the law of the jungle on certain levels ... panicking politicians equals subsequent police brutality, lack of self-control and inevitable discrimination

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 3:48pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 1:37pm: It wouldn't matter who was in power (even if it were the Greens or any party), the human response would be the same. In humans, the primal, instinctive pathogenic response is also co-opted as the mechanism by which we respond to moral disgust. We recoil from those who transgress collective or personal morality in the same way we recoil from pathogens, which means our primary response to evidence of contagious sickness usually triggers both. In short, the sick can disgust us in two ways. The suppression of moral disgust to sickness has only been possible in the modern era (over the last, say, 150 years) because advances in science has taught us that sickness is not the result of god's (or a higher metaphysical power's) moral displeasure. Yet, while, as humans, our higher facultires can suppress this response, they will still be triggered when we see / comprehend physical sickness, moral transgressions or the sight of sickness triggering both; varying in intensity from aversion to revulsion. If you imagine that the response to this virus is significant, imagine if it had a 30%+ death rate. In that circumstance it would not be an exaggeration to suggest that those who were sick, and who attempted to infiltrate healthy communities, would be shot dead on sight. There's been great advances in medical science, but very little advancement in the science of self-control. The use of Reptilian brains seems to be the go in the community and parliaments as far as this Covid thing goes What happened to human dignity, is that just for some, and bugger the rest? .... Discrimination cancels out human dignity ... but I'm noticing praise and approval for those who are doing the discriminating We have a long way to go before we finally eradicate "feel good" instincts that destroy other constituents in our so called "We Are One" society. It's still the law of the jungle on certain levels ... panicking politicians equals subsequent police brutality, lack of self-control and inevitable discrimination

More like primate-mammalian brain.

These powerful motivators are hard to control... Like escaping from fire, for example, that invariably causes panic... Which is why the analogy that free speech does not cover the right to shout 'fire' in a theatre.

Disease (or the threat of it) trigger these deeply instinctive responses and are as hard to pacify or eliminate as trying not to think of an elephant.

Dnarever wrote on Oct 9^th, 2021 at 3:34pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 11:10am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 10:56am: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 9:03am: Kat wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 8:52am: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 8th, 2021 at 5:14pm: NSW is opening up again on Monday we don't have vaccine passports. Yes, and those of us with more than a single brain-cell are already preparing for the next wave. Vaccine passports and vaccine certificates only give ignorant people a false sense of security. There is no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in spreading this virus why are you ignoring the science are you an ignorant science denying control freak? When has any of the modeling even been close why do these grifters refuse to pay back jobkeeper and why do we waste money on these people? Quote: Vaccine passports and vaccine certificates only give ignorant people a false sense of security. There is no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in spreading this virus Vaccinated people spread the virus less, If close to the vaccination a lot less but it deteriorates over time. You seem to ignore the difference in catching the virus and the likely severity if you do. The attitude you express here would mean that the next wave is already locked in and its going to be both soon and real bad. No difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in spreading this virus why are you ignoring the science on this? The vaccine is non sterlising it doesn't prevent you from catching virus carrying and spreading it the only thing the vaccine does it train your immune system to recognise spike protein and fight virus. The vaccine is supposed to prevent serious illness when you catch virus it does nothing else. It's high school science with throwing out old theories that have proved to be wrong and embracing new correct theory it's clear idiots like you have no idea with the basics of science and it's here for everyone to see with posts from ignorant people like you. The vast majority of people dying in hospital with covid-19 believed what you do - once.

meh

its only a handful a day.

50 die every day of heart attacks

the vast majority of those thought it was fine to go to maccas and sit on the couch.

i dont see you calling for lockdowns of maccas and netflix.

despite the fact 10 x as many are dying.

in fact, lockdowns have been a great bonus for maccas and netflix.

meanwhile gyms and healthy salad bars are demolished.

::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

aquascoot wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 5:05pm:

Dnarever wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 3:34pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 11:10am: Dnarever wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 10:56am: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 9:03am: Kat wrote on Oct 9th, 2021 at 8:52am: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 8th, 2021 at 5:14pm: NSW is opening up again on Monday we don't have vaccine passports. Yes, and those of us with more than a single brain-cell are already preparing for the next wave. Vaccine passports and vaccine certificates only give ignorant people a false sense of security. There is no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in spreading this virus why are you ignoring the science are you an ignorant science denying control freak? When has any of the modeling even been close why do these grifters refuse to pay back jobkeeper and why do we waste money on these people? Quote: Vaccine passports and vaccine certificates only give ignorant people a false sense of security. There is no difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in spreading this virus Vaccinated people spread the virus less, If close to the vaccination a lot less but it deteriorates over time. You seem to ignore the difference in catching the virus and the likely severity if you do. The attitude you express here would mean that the next wave is already locked in and its going to be both soon and real bad. No difference between vaxxed and unvaxxed in spreading this virus why are you ignoring the science on this? The vaccine is non sterlising it doesn't prevent you from catching virus carrying and spreading it the only thing the vaccine does it train your immune system to recognise spike protein and fight virus. The vaccine is supposed to prevent serious illness when you catch virus it does nothing else. It's high school science with throwing out old theories that have proved to be wrong and embracing new correct theory it's clear idiots like you have no idea with the basics of science and it's here for everyone to see with posts from ignorant people like you. The vast majority of people dying in hospital with covid-19 believed what you do - once. meh its only a handful a day. 50 die every day of heart attacks the vast majority of those thought it was fine to go to maccas and sit on the couch. i dont see you calling for lockdowns of maccas and netflix. despite the fact 10 x as many are dying. in fact, lockdowns have been a great bonus for maccas and netflix. meanwhile gyms and healthy salad bars are demolished. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Yes, compare this to a daily death toll of 46 per day of Australians dying from kidney disease.
Then there’s 48 deaths in Australia per day of CHD.
And 136 deaths per day from cancer.

This is per day for just those 3 mentioned.
Just those 3 alone accounts for 230 deaths per day!

Re: getting COVID vax health passes to go into McDonald’s, that’s actually quite funny.

one more time for the terminally slow ..


the death rate is only a small part of it. Most of our restrictions are there to protect the health system from collapse. Open up before you have enough people immunised and you can just about guarantee that the health system won't cope

John Smith wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 6:11pm:

one more time for the terminally slow .. the death rate is only a small part of it. Most of our restrictions are there to protect the health system from collapse. Open up before you have enough people immunised and you can just about guarantee that the health system won't cope

Yes. That's true... And not only the death rate... What about those who survive only via intensive care which requires 24 hour monitoring... And those who survive because of hospitalization all of which drain resources and never mind the usual care-giving required.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 6:20pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 6:11pm: one more time for the terminally slow .. the death rate is only a small part of it. Most of our restrictions are there to protect the health system from collapse. Open up before you have enough people immunised and you can just about guarantee that the health system won't cope Yes. That's true... And not only the death rate... What about those who survive only via intensive care which requires 24 hour monitoring... And those who survive because of hospitalization all of which drain resources and never mind the usual care-giving required.

4 north qld hospitals all declared a 'code yellow' last week. Code yellow signifies capacity issues.

And that was with no covid in the community . WTF happens in north qld if covid is allowed to run riot? There just aren't that many hospitals up there.

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 4^th, 2021 at 12:40pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 4th, 2021 at 12:34pm: We have many in this forum who believe we should discriminate against unvaccinated people which shows their ignorance and how nasty they are. There are many reasons why people aren't vaccinated ranging from availability medical reasons and personal choice. Vaccine passports will achieve nothing they give the perception our leaders are doing something to help yet it's expensive can't work and blatant discrimination. Travel passports are discriminatory too. If you don't have one, you can't go overseas. Driver's Licenses are discriminatory. If you don't have one, you can't drive on the road. etc. etc. etc. Just get the jab - it doesn't hurt.

So there are NO life changing adverse reactions at all ??

Do you want to guarantee that in writing or are you counting on a tax payer funded government indemnity to cover your arse and fob off the people that you have f.ked over with your jab  ?

John Smith wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 6:26pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 6:20pm: John Smith wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 6:11pm: one more time for the terminally slow .. the death rate is only a small part of it. Most of our restrictions are there to protect the health system from collapse. Open up before you have enough people immunised and you can just about guarantee that the health system won't cope Yes. That's true... And not only the death rate... What about those who survive only via intensive care which requires 24 hour monitoring... And those who survive because of hospitalization all of which drain resources and never mind the usual care-giving required. 4 north qld hospitals all declared a 'code yellow' last week. Code yellow signifies capacity issues. And that was with no covid in the community . WTF happens in north qld if covid is allowed to run riot? There just aren't that many hospitals up there.

the hospital system will need to adjust and prioritise.

this is a good thing.

John Smith wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 6:26pm:

4 north qld hospitals all declared a 'code yellow' last week. Code yellow signifies capacity issues. And that was with no covid in the community . WTF happens in north qld if covid is allowed to run riot? There just aren't that many hospitals up there.

The lockdown was sold as 2 weeks to flatten the curve.

The Palacechook has had 18 months to get her hospitals in order.

This is what voting labor gets you incompetence in running hospitals and labor voters wanting to stay locked down to cover this incompetence.

People have had plenty of time to get vaccinated we can't lock down forever it's time to open up.

aquascoot wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 7:54pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 6:26pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 6:20pm: John Smith wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 6:11pm: one more time for the terminally slow .. the death rate is only a small part of it. Most of our restrictions are there to protect the health system from collapse. Open up before you have enough people immunised and you can just about guarantee that the health system won't cope Yes. That's true... And not only the death rate... What about those who survive only via intensive care which requires 24 hour monitoring... And those who survive because of hospitalization all of which drain resources and never mind the usual care-giving required. 4 north qld hospitals all declared a 'code yellow' last week. Code yellow signifies capacity issues. And that was with no covid in the community . WTF happens in north qld if covid is allowed to run riot? There just aren't that many hospitals up there. the hospital system will need to adjust and prioritise. this is a good thing.

Yes... I guess we can just aerate all those blow-up medics we've got stored in Canberra and get them moving into aerated instant blow-up hospitals.

Florida USA

No vaccine passports no masks for kids everything open.

Funny how media reported when cases went up then the sheeple were like silence of the Lambs when cases started to drop

Age is a major risk for Kung Flu many older move to Florida to retire because it's warm.

---

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 8:15pm:

Florida USA No vaccine passports no masks for kids everything open. Funny how media reported when cases went up then the sheeple were like silence of the Lambs when cases started to drop Age is a major risk for Kung Flu many older move to Florida to retire because it's warm.

Message from 'Florida Man' to Australia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzqstDcb44I

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 8:16pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 8:15pm: Florida USA No vaccine passports no masks for kids everything open. Funny how media reported when cases went up then the sheeple were like silence of the Lambs when cases started to drop Age is a major risk for Kung Flu many older move to Florida to retire because it's warm. Message from 'Florida Man' to Australia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzqstDcb44I

I have lived and worked in Boca Raton on east coast and Punta Gorda on west coast.

I have friends there i don't need youtube.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 8:21pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 8:16pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 8:15pm: Florida USA No vaccine passports no masks for kids everything open. Funny how media reported when cases went up then the sheeple were like silence of the Lambs when cases started to drop Age is a major risk for Kung Flu many older move to Florida to retire because it's warm. Message from 'Florida Man' to Australia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzqstDcb44I I have lived and worked in Boca Raton on east coast and Punta Gorda on west coast. I have friends there i don't need youtube.

So you'd know something of what he's referring to, then... His wife is a medic.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 8:15pm:

Florida USA No vaccine passports no masks for kids everything open.

Nek minnit!

MIAMI (AP) — Florida surpassed 50,000 coronavirus deaths since the pandemic began, health officials reported Thursday, with more than one fourth of those succumbing this summer as the state battled a fierce surge in infections fueled by the delta variant.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention tallied 50,811 deaths after adding more than 1,500 COVID-19 deaths provided Thursday by the state’s health department. Those reported deaths occurred over various dates in recent weeks.

Florida has the 11th worst per-capita death rate among the 50 states, the CDC says. New Jersey, Mississippi and New York have had the worst, but Florida has risen from the 17th spot in the past two weeks.

Overall, about one in every 400 Florida residents who were alive in March 2020 has since died of COVID-19. Only cancer and heart disease have killed more Floridians during that period, according to state health department statistics. Those have each killed about 70,000 Floridians.

greggerypeccary wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 8:26pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 8:15pm: Florida USA No vaccine passports no masks for kids everything open. Nek minnit! MIAMI (AP) — Florida surpassed 50,000 coronavirus deaths since the pandemic began, health officials reported Thursday, with more than one fourth of those succumbing this summer as the state battled a fierce surge in infections fueled by the delta variant. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention tallied 50,811 deaths after adding more than 1,500 COVID-19 deaths provided Thursday by the state’s health department. Those reported deaths occurred over various dates in recent weeks. Florida has the 11th worst per-capita death rate among the 50 states, the CDC says. New Jersey, Mississippi and New York have had the worst, but Florida has risen from the 17th spot in the past two weeks. Overall, about one in every 400 Florida residents who were alive in March 2020 has since died of COVID-19. Only cancer and heart disease have killed more Floridians during that period, according to state health department statistics. Those have each killed about 70,000 Floridians.

Nobody cares for your bullshit little pecca. You made a bet with BIAS that you would leave this forum if Trump beat Hillary. When are you going to be a man and honour your bet with BIAS or are you just a filthy liar?

Florida open cases in decline.

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Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 8:29pm:

Nobody cares for your bullshit little pecca. You made a bet with BIAS that you would leave this forum if Trump beat Hillary. When are you going to be a man and honour your bet with BIAS or are you just a filthy liar?

Deflection, much?

MIAMI (AP) — Florida surpassed 50,000 coronavirus deaths since the pandemic began, health officials reported Thursday, with more than one fourth of those succumbing this summer as the state battled a fierce surge in infections fueled by the delta variant.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention tallied 50,811 deaths after adding more than 1,500 COVID-19 deaths provided Thursday by the state’s health department. Those reported deaths occurred over various dates in recent weeks.

Florida has the 11th worst per-capita death rate among the 50 states, the CDC says. New Jersey, Mississippi and New York have had the worst, but Florida has risen from the 17th spot in the past two weeks.

Overall, about one in every 400 Florida residents who were alive in March 2020 has since died of COVID-19. Only cancer and heart disease have killed more Floridians during that period, according to state health department statistics. Those have each killed about 70,000 Floridians.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 8:30pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 8:29pm: Nobody cares for your bullshit little pecca. You made a bet with BIAS that you would leave this forum if Trump beat Hillary. When are you going to be a man and honour your bet with BIAS or are you just a filthy liar? Deflection, much?

It's not a deflection i don't have time for people with no integrity and never honour their bets.

I usually scroll over his bullshit it's never worth reading.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 8:34pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 8:30pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 8:29pm: Nobody cares for your bullshit little pecca. You made a bet with BIAS that you would leave this forum if Trump beat Hillary. When are you going to be a man and honour your bet with BIAS or are you just a filthy liar? Deflection, much? It's not a deflection i don't have time for people with no integrity and never honour their bets. I usually scroll over his bullshit it's never worth reading.

MIAMI (AP) — Florida surpassed 50,000 coronavirus deaths since the pandemic began, health officials reported Thursday, with more than one fourth of those succumbing this summer as the state battled a fierce surge in infections fueled by the delta variant.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention tallied 50,811 deaths after adding more than 1,500 COVID-19 deaths provided Thursday by the state’s health department. Those reported deaths occurred over various dates in recent weeks.

Florida has the 11th worst per-capita death rate among the 50 states, the CDC says. New Jersey, Mississippi and New York have had the worst, but Florida has risen from the 17th spot in the past two weeks.

Overall, about one in every 400 Florida residents who were alive in March 2020 has since died of COVID-19. Only cancer and heart disease have killed more Floridians during that period, according to state health department statistics. Those have each killed about 70,000 Floridians.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 8:34pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 8:30pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 8:29pm: Nobody cares for your bullshit little pecca. You made a bet with BIAS that you would leave this forum if Trump beat Hillary. When are you going to be a man and honour your bet with BIAS or are you just a filthy liar? Deflection, much? It's not a deflection i don't have time for people with no integrity and never honour their bets. I usually scroll over his bullshit it's never worth reading.

But time enough to make a deflecting post including highlighting, bolding and enhanced font size...

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 8:16pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 8:15pm: Florida USA No vaccine passports no masks for kids everything open. Funny how media reported when cases went up then the sheeple were like silence of the Lambs when cases started to drop Age is a major risk for Kung Flu many older move to Florida to retire because it's warm. Message from 'Florida Man' to Australia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzqstDcb44I

Thank you Florida Man.

aquascoot wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 7:54pm:

John Smith wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 6:26pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 6:20pm: John Smith wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 6:11pm: one more time for the terminally slow .. the death rate is only a small part of it. Most of our restrictions are there to protect the health system from collapse. Open up before you have enough people immunised and you can just about guarantee that the health system won't cope Yes. That's true... And not only the death rate... What about those who survive only via intensive care which requires 24 hour monitoring... And those who survive because of hospitalization all of which drain resources and never mind the usual care-giving required. 4 north qld hospitals all declared a 'code yellow' last week. Code yellow signifies capacity issues. And that was with no covid in the community . WTF happens in north qld if covid is allowed to run riot? There just aren't that many hospitals up there. the hospital system will need to adjust and prioritise. this is a good thing.

Interesting looking at death stats for Oz, there were over 8000 less deaths in 2020 compared to 2019.

Also, less people are going into hospitals for critical care (eg: cancer, heart attacks) due to fear of going into hospital since this COVID outbreak in 2020.
If a hospital becomes “over run” by Covid patients…. I noticed the medicos are worried there isn’t enough of them to cope?
Could that be because of a lot of nurses leaving due to not wanting to be coerced to keep their job because of jab?
(It’s not just nurses leaving in droves)

I went into a live chat a couple nights ago, a man in Gold Coast hospital (non Covid related)  was talking and told us “the hospital is practically empty, hardly anyone here”
After all, Qld hasn’t a current COVID crisis problem, so that’s understandable.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 3:53pm:

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 3:48pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 1:37pm: It wouldn't matter who was in power (even if it were the Greens or any party), the human response would be the same. In humans, the primal, instinctive pathogenic response is also co-opted as the mechanism by which we respond to moral disgust. We recoil from those who transgress collective or personal morality in the same way we recoil from pathogens, which means our primary response to evidence of contagious sickness usually triggers both. In short, the sick can disgust us in two ways. The suppression of moral disgust to sickness has only been possible in the modern era (over the last, say, 150 years) because advances in science has taught us that sickness is not the result of god's (or a higher metaphysical power's) moral displeasure. Yet, while, as humans, our higher facultires can suppress this response, they will still be triggered when we see / comprehend physical sickness, moral transgressions or the sight of sickness triggering both; varying in intensity from aversion to revulsion. If you imagine that the response to this virus is significant, imagine if it had a 30%+ death rate. In that circumstance it would not be an exaggeration to suggest that those who were sick, and who attempted to infiltrate healthy communities, would be shot dead on sight. There's been great advances in medical science, but very little advancement in the science of self-control. The use of Reptilian brains seems to be the go in the community and parliaments as far as this Covid thing goes What happened to human dignity, is that just for some, and bugger the rest? .... Discrimination cancels out human dignity ... but I'm noticing praise and approval for those who are doing the discriminating We have a long way to go before we finally eradicate "feel good" instincts that destroy other constituents in our so called "We Are One" society. It's still the law of the jungle on certain levels ... panicking politicians equals subsequent police brutality, lack of self-control and inevitable discrimination More like primate-mammalian brain. These powerful motivators are hard to control... Like escaping from fire, for example, that invariably causes panic... Which is why the analogy that free speech does not cover the right to shout 'fire' in a theatre. Disease (or the threat of it) trigger these deeply instinctive responses and are as hard to pacify or eliminate as trying not to think of an elephant.

Right again .... Covid triggered a deeply instinctive response in the politicians causing them to isolate and lock citizens in buildings, punish citizens in the street, and discriminate against and threaten many other citizens

One wonders why we vote for those University educated politicians ... I don't, but a good percentage do, glutens for punishment I suppose

When you can't get your way, like a spoiled child, start swinging a big stick

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 11:56pm:

Right again .... Covid triggered a deeply instinctive response in the politicians causing them to isolate and lock citizens in buildings, punish citizens in the street, and discriminate against and threaten many other citizens One wonders why we vote for those University educated politicians ... I don't, but a good percentage do, glutens for punishment I suppose When you can't get your way, like a spoiled child, start swinging a big stick

COVID triggered the pathogenic response in all of us where the virus became an issue.

Politicians are judged by their success in controlling a disaster once it begins. None usually gets credit for averting, by good management, disasters that didn't happen because of that good management. In other words, because we are not as clear-sighted as the Taiwanese, the disaster had to happen before action could be taken.

The phenomenon of those who decided the whole thing was a hoax or couldn't fathom what it all meant, is a result of at least 2 generations of Australians having no comprehension of existential threat...

Think of that clip of the beachgoer in Asia, standing on the beach, staring, as the tsunami wave was only a minute from sweeping him away to his death, presumably having never seen a tsunami before; and you'll have the analogy.

Dnarever wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 9:00pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 8:16pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 8:15pm: Florida USA No vaccine passports no masks for kids everything open. Funny how media reported when cases went up then the sheeple were like silence of the Lambs when cases started to drop Age is a major risk for Kung Flu many older move to Florida to retire because it's warm. Message from 'Florida Man' to Australia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzqstDcb44I Thank you Florida Man.

Florida MAN .....Amen to that....

take note Aqua, Gordon, Nail & whoever else is whinging about our restrictions & advocating total lifting of them & business as usual.

Get on down to the produce store for your dose of horse wormer or anything else US inspired you plonkers.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 12:14am:

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 11:56pm: Right again .... Covid triggered a deeply instinctive response in the politicians causing them to isolate and lock citizens in buildings, punish citizens in the street, and discriminate against and threaten many other citizens One wonders why we vote for those University educated politicians ... I don't, but a good percentage do, glutens for punishment I suppose When you can't get your way, like a spoiled child, start swinging a big stick COVID triggered the pathogenic response in all of us where the virus became an issue. Politicians are judged by their success in controlling a disaster once it begins. None usually gets credit for averting, by good management, disasters that didn't happen because of that good management. In other words, because we are not as clear-sighted as the Taiwanese, the disaster had to happen before action could be taken. The phenomenon of those who decided the whole thing was a hoax or couldn't fathom what it all meant, is a result of at least 2 generations of Australians having no comprehension of existential threat... Think of that clip of the beachgoer in Asia, standing on the beach, staring, as the tsunami wave was only a minute from sweeping him away to his death, presumably having never seen a tsunami before; and you'll have the analogy.

Still no excuse for politicians to become belligerent and sic their police force on us. Covid is a part of Nature, it's not like a crime wave where politicians necessarily need to concentrate on cracking down on violent criminals

The main reason for their panic was that the economy would suffer, and it wouldn't matter if it was a virus invading Australia, or an invasion of galactic aliens, they were determined to keep money coming in and circulating, there's over a billion dollars of interest on debt to pay each month ... plus there's their own excesses they enjoy and must be paid for, luxury meals in Parliament as one example, and chauffeur driven cars, etc

The real solution to Covid was to forget the money and block Australia from international air traffic and maritime shipping, only letting in fuel and medical supplies but with very stringent testing and stringent safeguards dealing with only a minimum number of crews at a time to ensure thoroughness, then send them on their way

But what we saw was umming and ahhing, flip flopping, twisting and turning, while Covid was laughing at all that and jumping ship from cruise ships and leaking out from airports, consequently spreading around

"COVID triggered the pathogenic response in all of us where the virus became an issue"

Not me, I got out of the big city seven years ago, I could tell something like this could happen, perhaps not Covid, but certainly salmonella and massive traffic congestion caused by road accidents, road rage and ethnic crime, all of which has got worse since I left.

Covid didn't surprise me though, and it will teach city folk a lesson, the benevolent politicians you willingly vote for, can also turn against you, getting your head slammed on a hard floor and fining the hell out of you, all because the benevolent politicians stuff up, but find it difficult to blame themselves, so their next instinct is to crucify anything walking on two legs

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 10:34am:

The main reason for their panic was that the economy would suffer

Isn't the health of the economy the primary metric by which all politicians are judged?

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 10:34am:

But what we saw was umming and ahhing, flip flopping, twisting and turning, while Covid was laughing at all that and jumping ship from cruise ships and leaking out from airports, consequently spreading around

Yes, the early mishandling of the pandemic indicated confusion even at the highest level of how to manage the impending disaster...

It's nearly always the 'cock-up' theory than a conspiracy theory.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 10:40am:

Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 10:34am: But what we saw was umming and ahhing, flip flopping, twisting and turning, while Covid was laughing at all that and jumping ship from cruise ships and leaking out from airports, consequently spreading around Yes, the early mishandling and lies of the pandemic indicated confusion even at the highest level of how to manage the impending disaster... It's nearly always the 'cock-up' theory than a conspiracy theory.

There, I fixed it up for you  :)

Sophia wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 10:43am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 10:40am: Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 10:34am: But what we saw was umming and ahhing, flip flopping, twisting and turning, while Covid was laughing at all that and jumping ship from cruise ships and leaking out from airports, consequently spreading around Yes, the early mishandling and lies of the pandemic indicated confusion even at the highest level of how to manage the impending disaster... It's nearly always the 'cock-up' theory than a conspiracy theory. There, I fixed it up for you  :)

Please, define the lies such that they're not stabs in the dark.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 10:45am:

Sophia wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 10:43am: NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 10:40am: Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 10:34am: But what we saw was umming and ahhing, flip flopping, twisting and turning, while Covid was laughing at all that and jumping ship from cruise ships and leaking out from airports, consequently spreading around Yes, the early mishandling and lies of the pandemic indicated confusion even at the highest level of how to manage the impending disaster... It's nearly always the 'cock-up' theory than a conspiracy theory. There, I fixed it up for you  :) Please, define the lies such that they're not stabs in the dark.

:o :-*
Where to begin? From the very start? Wuhan wet market/lab/CCP/Dr.Li/RubyPrincess/HanDan refusing AFD then denying he refused them? Oh that’s right, he can’t recall/remember his lies.
Well that’s settled that then.

Sophia wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 11:57am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 10:45am: Sophia wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 10:43am: NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 10:40am: Bias_2012 wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 10:34am: But what we saw was umming and ahhing, flip flopping, twisting and turning, while Covid was laughing at all that and jumping ship from cruise ships and leaking out from airports, consequently spreading around Yes, the early mishandling and lies of the pandemic indicated confusion even at the highest level of how to manage the impending disaster... It's nearly always the 'cock-up' theory than a conspiracy theory. There, I fixed it up for you  :) Please, define the lies such that they're not stabs in the dark. :o :-* Where to begin? From the very start? Wuhan wet market/lab/CCP/Dr.Li/RubyPrincess/HanDan refusing AFD then denying he refused them? Oh that’s right, he can’t recall/remember his lies. Well that’s settled that then.

Yes, that's true of the Chinese cartel and increasingly Peter Daszak.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 10^th, 2021 at 8:34pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 8:30pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 8:29pm: Nobody cares for your bullshit little pecca. You made a bet with BIAS that you would leave this forum if Trump beat Hillary. When are you going to be a man and honour your bet with BIAS or are you just a filthy liar? Deflection, much? It's not a deflection i don't have time for people with no integrity and never honour their bets. I usually scroll over his bullshit it's never worth reading.

yeh groggary stop spruiking big pharma junk on this forum because you shouldn't be here to begin with :(

Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 3:49pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 8:34pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 8:30pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 8:29pm: Nobody cares for your bullshit little pecca. You made a bet with BIAS that you would leave this forum if Trump beat Hillary. When are you going to be a man and honour your bet with BIAS or are you just a filthy liar? Deflection, much? It's not a deflection i don't have time for people with no integrity and never honour their bets. I usually scroll over his bullshit it's never worth reading. yeh groggary stop spruiking big pharma junk on this forum because you shouldn't be here to begin with :(

Talk about deflections, there's that big pharma again...

nail is quite right to criticise big pharma.

do you think big pharma bounce out of bed every day with a passion to "save lives" or "make profits"

next you will be telling us jeff bezos has a passion to bring books to the world via amazon.

that zuckerburgs only concern is connecting us all and spreading peace and harmony

that gina rhinehart passionately wants us to all have lots of steel appliances because she cares deeply about our whitegoods  ::) ::) ::)

ProudKangaroo wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 5:08pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 3:49pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 8:34pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 8:30pm: Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 10th, 2021 at 8:29pm: Nobody cares for your bullshit little pecca. You made a bet with BIAS that you would leave this forum if Trump beat Hillary. When are you going to be a man and honour your bet with BIAS or are you just a filthy liar? Deflection, much? It's not a deflection i don't have time for people with no integrity and never honour their bets. I usually scroll over his bullshit it's never worth reading. yeh groggary stop spruiking big pharma junk on this forum because you shouldn't be here to begin with :( Talk about deflections, there's that big pharma again...

Nothing has changed mate :(

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aquascoot wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 5:28pm:

nail is quite right to criticise big pharma. do you think big pharma bounce out of bed every day with a passion to "save lives" or "make profits" next you will be telling us jeff bezos has a passion to bring books to the world via amazon. that zuckerburgs only concern is connecting us all and spreading peace and harmony that gina rhinehart passionately wants us to all have lots of steel appliances because she cares deeply about our whitegoods  ::) ::) ::)

They're all people you admire ..... no recommendation in the least.

You're not agin them but for them.

They're your Alphas.

Pharq off

aquascoot wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 5:28pm:

nail is quite right to criticise big pharma. do you think big pharma bounce out of bed every day with a passion to "save lives" or "make profits" next you will be telling us jeff bezos has a passion to bring books to the world via amazon. that zuckerburgs only concern is connecting us all and spreading peace and harmony that gina rhinehart passionately wants us to all have lots of steel appliances because she cares deeply about our whitegoods  ::) ::) ::)

That's just infantile posturing.

As a farmer, do you 'bounce out of bed' wanting to feed the hungry or hope to run a profitable business?

aquascoot wrote on Oct 11^th, 2021 at 5:28pm:

nail is quite right to criticise big pharma.

Perhaps he should learn to present his case in a sane manner ?


PRESENTLY , he's just another NUT-JOB of the "believe ONE conspiracy theory, believe them ALL" variety

I have a theory about "big pharma" as WELL
They're not charities, as many seem to think
But profit making companies, whose priorities are to bring
the highest return on investment to share-holders

I suspect that banks are not charities, EITHER

buzzanddidj wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 9:31am:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 5:28pm: nail is quite right to criticise big pharma. Perhaps he should learn to present his case in a sane manner ? PRESENTLY , he's just another NUT-JOB of the "believe ONE conspiracy theory, believe them ALL" variety I have a theory about "big pharma" as WELL They're not charities, as many seem to think But profit making companies, whose priorities are to bring the highest return on investment to share-holders I suspect that banks are not charities, EITHER

And that's the thing.  Eye-rolling when someone uses big-pharma as a get out of jail free card does not automatically become a shill for big-pharma or agree with what's happening.

Big-pharma, especially in the way it has manifested in the US is abhorrent.  Tying healthcare to employment provided health insurance is equally so.

But to use the notion of "big-pharma" and not even articulate the actual problem and provide the evidence to back it up is just stupid, pointless and will, each and every time, get an eye roll in response and, should there be any remaining, a loss of respect in the poster.

Vaxxed/unvaxxed probably is even in risk of spreading Covid.

Unvaxxed at slightly higher risk of catching covid but higher risk of getting and knowing they're sick, so (hopefully) will self isolate.

Vaxxed, slightly lower risk of catching covid but when they do, higher risk of walking around asymptomatic spreading it to all and sundry.

Gordon wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 11:44am:

Vaxxed/unvaxxed probably is even in risk of spreading Covid. Unvaxxed at slightly higher risk of catching covid but higher risk of getting and knowing they're sick, so (hopefully) will self isolate. Vaxxed, slightly lower risk of catching covid but when they do, higher risk of walking around asymptomatic spreading it to all and sundry.

Yeah, it's like we're making things better but worse at the same time, but it all depends on the metric that you care about.

ProudKangaroo wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 12:10pm:

Gordon wrote on Oct 12th, 2021 at 11:44am: Vaxxed/unvaxxed probably is even in risk of spreading Covid. Unvaxxed at slightly higher risk of catching covid but higher risk of getting and knowing they're sick, so (hopefully) will self isolate. Vaxxed, slightly lower risk of catching covid but when they do, higher risk of walking around asymptomatic spreading it to all and sundry. Yeah, it's like we're making things better but worse at the same time, but it all depends on the metric that you care about.

This vaccine isn't a pandemic stopper. Get vaxxed and be safe, but it doesn't make much difference to others.

BTW, about 2, 2.5 years ago I started a thread here about the flu vaxxin and argued about how everyone should get it because it helps protect others. While the covid vax gives you loads of personal protection and some protection of others, the flu vax gives you a bit of personal protect and a bit of protection of others.

You'd choke on your wheaties when you read who was one of the most anti-flu vax people here.

I've been looking but can't find it.

buzzanddidj wrote on Oct 12^th, 2021 at 9:31am:

aquascoot wrote on Oct 11th, 2021 at 5:28pm: nail is quite right to criticise big pharma. Perhaps he should learn to present his case in a sane manner ? PRESENTLY , he's just another NUT-JOB of the "believe ONE conspiracy theory, believe them ALL" variety I have a theory about "big pharma" as WELL They're not charities, as many seem to think But profit making companies, whose priorities are to bring the highest return on investment to share-holders I suspect that banks are not charities, EITHER

And you're just in denial because you were gullible and stupid enough to take your medical advice from dimwit politicians and sports celebrities :D LOL

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