Quote:

Toyota LandCruiser V8 petrol could return. Next-gen LandCruiser 300 Series could get rock-crushing 450kW twin-turbo V8 petrol engine. Sales of the current V8 twin-turbo diesel Toyota LandCruiser 200 Series continue to exceed expectations in Australia, but as global production of the engine ceases soon, many potential buyers may be left wondering if the new model is worth the upgrade. But a V8-powered Toyota LandCruiser may not be dead and buried after all. New intel suggests the Japanese brand is considering a V8 engine in future for its flagship 4x4 wagon. And it’s not a diesel. While the new Toyota LandCruiser 300 Series will get a brand-new six-cylinder turbo-diesel engine to replace the V8 – with similar power and torque – a source with knowledge of the next-gen LC300 (and in particular the platform that underpins it) told carsales an all-new petrol V8 is possible. While there is no official confirmation at this stage, our source said a petrol V8 is “not out of the question”. If the LC300 receives the nod for a return to eight-cylinder power, it could get a detuned version of the Lexus-developed twin-turbo V8 that was previewed in the Lexus LC race car last year and is expected to be capable of cranking out a heavy-hitting 450kW and 750Nm. The all-new V8 engine is understood to displace between 3.8 and 4.0 litres with a twin-turbo set-up, and Toyota engineers are looking at the new powertrain closely for a number of upcoming vehicles, which appears to now include the LandCruiser. Sales of the current turbo-diesel V8-powered LandCruiser have boomed in recent months, with more than 4200 wagons sold in November and December combined – more than twice as many compared to the corresponding (pre-pandemic) period in 2019. It was the fifth-highest-selling car in Australia in 2020, outsold only by the Toyota HiLux, Ford Ranger, Toyota RAV4 and Corolla. Clearly there’s strong demand for a capable V8-powered SUV, with sales of the petrol-only V8 Nissan Patrol also skyrocketing in 2020. Toyota sold more LandCruisers in 2020 than the Camry sedan and Kluger family SUV, which speaks to two factors: Aussies are now holidaying domestically and want a solid adventure and towing rig and the fact that this could be the last V8 LandCruiser for some time. The all-new Toyota LandCruiser 300 Series is set to be launched in Australia in the second half of 2021 following its global reveal mid-year, and will be based on the car-maker’s new TNGA-F platform architecture. This scalable platform allows for the implementation of a range of new powertrains (including hybrid) and will underpin the next-gen Toyota Tundra full-size pick-up truck due to enter production in the US later this year and the LC300’s luxury cousin, the next-gen Lexus LX – both of which are also understood to be in the running for the twin-turbo V8. Mid-way through the decade, a smaller version of the TNGA-F platform will be used to underpin the next-generation Toyota HiLux as well, but the chances it will get a V8 are slim. As previously reported, Toyota is considering a locally-developed LandCruiser Rugged X model to take on the upcoming V8-powered Nissan Patrol Warrior, but a more likely scenario for a range-topping high-performance twin-turbo V8 engine deployment would be a GR LandCruiser model.

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/toyota-landcruiser-v8-petrol-could-return-128080/

Toyota make very good petrol engines.
Their diesels have had problems

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 31^st, 2021 at 11:23pm:

Quote: Toyota LandCruiser V8 petrol could return. Next-gen LandCruiser 300 Series could get rock-crushing 450kW twin-turbo V8 petrol engine. Sales of the current V8 twin-turbo diesel Toyota LandCruiser 200 Series continue to exceed expectations in Australia, but as global production of the engine ceases soon, many potential buyers may be left wondering if the new model is worth the upgrade. But a V8-powered Toyota LandCruiser may not be dead and buried after all. New intel suggests the Japanese brand is considering a V8 engine in future for its flagship 4x4 wagon. And it’s not a diesel. While the new Toyota LandCruiser 300 Series will get a brand-new six-cylinder turbo-diesel engine to replace the V8 – with similar power and torque – a source with knowledge of the next-gen LC300 (and in particular the platform that underpins it) told carsales an all-new petrol V8 is possible. While there is no official confirmation at this stage, our source said a petrol V8 is “not out of the question”. If the LC300 receives the nod for a return to eight-cylinder power, it could get a detuned version of the Lexus-developed twin-turbo V8 that was previewed in the Lexus LC race car last year and is expected to be capable of cranking out a heavy-hitting 450kW and 750Nm. The all-new V8 engine is understood to displace between 3.8 and 4.0 litres with a twin-turbo set-up, and Toyota engineers are looking at the new powertrain closely for a number of upcoming vehicles, which appears to now include the LandCruiser. Sales of the current turbo-diesel V8-powered LandCruiser have boomed in recent months, with more than 4200 wagons sold in November and December combined – more than twice as many compared to the corresponding (pre-pandemic) period in 2019. It was the fifth-highest-selling car in Australia in 2020, outsold only by the Toyota HiLux, Ford Ranger, Toyota RAV4 and Corolla. Clearly there’s strong demand for a capable V8-powered SUV, with sales of the petrol-only V8 Nissan Patrol also skyrocketing in 2020. Toyota sold more LandCruisers in 2020 than the Camry sedan and Kluger family SUV, which speaks to two factors: Aussies are now holidaying domestically and want a solid adventure and towing rig and the fact that this could be the last V8 LandCruiser for some time. The all-new Toyota LandCruiser 300 Series is set to be launched in Australia in the second half of 2021 following its global reveal mid-year, and will be based on the car-maker’s new TNGA-F platform architecture. This scalable platform allows for the implementation of a range of new powertrains (including hybrid) and will underpin the next-gen Toyota Tundra full-size pick-up truck due to enter production in the US later this year and the LC300’s luxury cousin, the next-gen Lexus LX – both of which are also understood to be in the running for the twin-turbo V8. Mid-way through the decade, a smaller version of the TNGA-F platform will be used to underpin the next-generation Toyota HiLux as well, but the chances it will get a V8 are slim. As previously reported, Toyota is considering a locally-developed LandCruiser Rugged X model to take on the upcoming V8-powered Nissan Patrol Warrior, but a more likely scenario for a range-topping high-performance twin-turbo V8 engine deployment would be a GR LandCruiser model. https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/toyota-landcruiser-v8-petrol-could-return-128080/ Toyota make very good petrol engines. Their diesels have had problems

In what way?

The diesels have had DPF and injector problems.
Diesel engine problems can be VERY expensive.

Some of the Toyota petrols are very robust.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 1^st, 2021 at 12:07am:

The diesels have had DPF and injector problems. Diesel engine problems can be VERY expensive. Some of the Toyota petrols are very robust.

I will personally confront Toyota on these known problems tomorrow, can you cite any evidence?

Johnnie wrote on Aug 1^st, 2021 at 12:22am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 1st, 2021 at 12:07am: The diesels have had DPF and injector problems. Diesel engine problems can be VERY expensive. Some of the Toyota petrols are very robust. I will personally confront Toyota on these known problems tomorrow, can you cite any evidence?

they are quite aware of it.
they are also not the only ones with problematic diesels.
Modern diesels are very complex, run to very tight tolerances under huge pressures.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 1^st, 2021 at 12:07am:

The diesels have had DPF and injector problems. Diesel engine problems can be VERY expensive. Some of the Toyota petrols are very robust.

Diesel engines have not changed much since the 1890's when they were invented, just a few bells and whistles like DPF's turbos etc, the V8 diesel in the 300 series will be sadly missed by the Land Cruiser community.

Just compare sales between the Nissan Patrol V8 Petrol and the Landcruiser 200 Series with the V8 diesel and you will see which one is the top seller by faaaaar. That Toyota V8 diesel as used in the 200 and 70 series vehicles is a dream engine and will be truly missed by a huge portion of the 4x4 drivers.

Johnnie wrote on Aug 1^st, 2021 at 7:27pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 1st, 2021 at 12:07am: The diesels have had DPF and injector problems. Diesel engine problems can be VERY expensive. Some of the Toyota petrols are very robust. Diesel engines have not changed much since the 1890's when they were invented, just a few bells and whistles like DPF's turbos etc, the V8 diesel in the 300 series will be sadly missed by the Land Cruiser community.

I am sure the new V6 diesel will be very good.
Lighter, more efficient.

well, I think a few things have changed in diesels .
eg DPFs, turbos, injectors, common rail lines.


Quote:

.........  Fast-forward to the present day, and those diesel fuel injector pumps are operating in the 30,000 to 40,000 psi range.      .............

https://www.buyautoparts.com/blog/4-common-diesel-fuel-injection-pump-problems/

Pressure like this cause many problems. Any dirt in fuel at this pressure causes rapid damage. Hence diesel fuel components are worked on in a clean room.
A new injector is about $1000 each, schedule to change them all every 100,000 kms. 

Wow - very informative info here.


Quote:

..........  The older, lower pressure injectors will last a lot longer, than the current, very high pressure, common rail injectors. The reasons are simple. The older engines injected once per power stroke - the current piezo-electric injectors inject multiple times on a power stroke to improve fuel combustion and economy, and to reduce diesel injection "clatter". The current piezo-electric injectors have multiple orifices, whereas a lot of the older injectors have only one orifice. Multiple orifices means finer orifices, and therefore a higher chance of blockages via wear material from within the fuel system, and via carbon from combustion. Current injectors operate at much higher pressures, therefore operating clearances are even finer than the old-style injectors (which often had 1/10,000 inch clearance between moving parts). I was in an Isuzu dealership recently and they had a huge advert on the counter, with accompanying comprehensive literature, showing how important it is to ensure that the newest injectors are comprehensively cleaned by the dealership, using factory equipment, every 100,000kms, to ensure best injector performance. In essence, the three factors that guide you towards injector servicing are hard starting, excessive black exhaust smoke, and worsening fuel consumption. However, in the case of the exhaust smoke check, you need to have someone following you to determine just how bad your black smoke problem is. Some black smoke under hard acceleration is allowable, but black smoke on a steady throttle is not - and neither is black smoke when pulling a steady load with a steady throttle, allowable. Emitting visible black smoke for 10 secs or longer is enough reason to have your vehicle defected, according to most State traffic regulations. I would not be replacing injectors at 100,000kms unless the engine definitely showed signs of hard starting, increased fuel consumption, or increasing levels of black smoke. Valve clearance adjustment is a simple maintenance job that SHOULD be done every 100,000kms. You will often be surprised at what a difference a valve clearance adjustment will make, to performance. Cheers, Ron.          ............

https://www.exploroz.com/forum/131673/lifespan-of-diesel-injectors

Seems me estimate of 100,000 kms was too low and my estimate of $1000 per injector was too high.

wooko


Quote:

.............  The cat is already out of the bag: The 2022 Toyota LandCruiser 300 Series will be powered by a newer, smaller V6 turbo-diesel engine. Replacing the current LandCruiser 200 Series' 4.5-litre V8 turbo-diesel engine, the new engine offers more power and torque from less capacity: 227kW and 700Nm, surpassing the Toyota V8's 200kW and 650Nm.        ...........

https://www.caradvice.com.au/960788/2022-toyota-landcruiser-300-series-new-3-3-litre-diesel-engine-details-emerge/

10 speed auto.
Hot-Vee design, 2 turbos operating sequentially.
Motor is 100 kgs lighter.
Seems they will do a 3.5L V6 petrol and a 3.3 Litre V6 diesel. Maybe for US ?
Toyota engineering is very good.

The problem with modern diesels isnt the engine, its the DPF (Diesel particulate filter)

This ticking time bomb has taken an incredibly reliable engine and made it virtually unsuitable for use in most environments other than freeway driving.

You see, this wonderful little DPF clogs up unless you burn it off with lots of highway driving.
City dwellers will see their cars going into limp mode at 30000 or 40000 k from being clogged in the sacred name of pollution elimination.

Diesels also have an EGR (Exhaust Gas Re-circulation) system that takes some of the exhaust gasses and funnels it back through the intake, the intent is to reduce the temperature of the gasses in the exhaust by introducing already spent gas into the cylinder meaning less combustibles to burn. This reduces the NOX (a nasty carcinogen).
By itself, not a great problem, but when combined with the PCV (positive crankcase ventilation which is a mixture of gasses and vaporized oil and fuel) mixing the fumes, oil and carbon deposits, the carbon builds up in the engine intake and strangles the engine slowly.

The PCV can be fixed, to a degree, with a catch can that removes much of the oil from the fumes.
The EGR cannot be legally touched, although many do block it off (both electronically and physically).
And the good old DPF is illegal to touch at all and huge fines can be the result.

The final nail in the coffin is the diesel we have in Australia, known to be the dirtyiest IN THE WORLD.
Although it does "Supposedly" meet minimum standards for diesel, it is so dirty that many countries will not send some of their more modern engines to Australia because the fuel will clog the engines in short order.
This is more evident in petrol cars, but diesels are also in there.
The fuel is so dirty that modern injectors fail due to contamination regularly.

The DPF issue in Toyota is so bad that there is a class action being fought about it.
People driving to the onerous conditions required still have them clogging at an alarming rate
Imagine being told that you have to drive a very special way at a special speed for a specific time every month or your warranty is void...really good stuff eh?
But Toyota isnt the only problematic manufacturer.
Mitsubishi, Ford, Mazda all have DPF issues.

So we have the mighty diesel, an engine known for long life and hard work for more than 500000klm
now being less reliable and prone to failing at less than 40000 klm.

But petrol engines are not really any better than diesel, its just not as obvious because they dont blow carbon as they wear out like diesels.
the carcinogenic particulates are just as prevalent in petrol cars as diesel, and in larger quantities because petrol cars use more fuel, on average 20% more.
They are planning DPF for cars, that will be the end of ICE engines and force people to use electric vehicles.

The sad part is that Australia has none of the problems that Europe does with diesel engine emissions.
Our cities are windblown all the time and less populated, so the fumes don't hang around.
Additionally, we have large distances to travel, unlike Europe.

But thanks to the greenie city dwellers and sycophantic politicians, we have to follow the world like sheep and stuff our engines.

If my new 4x4 has any issues, I will be purchasing a pre-DPF vehicle and have it rebuilt from the ground up and get the 500000klm plus life I should get.

Valkie wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2021 at 8:44am:

The problem with modern diesels isnt the engine, its the DPF (Diesel particulate filter) This ticking time bomb has taken an incredibly reliable engine and made it virtually unsuitable for use in most environments other than freeway driving. You see, this wonderful little DPF clogs up unless you burn it off with lots of highway driving. City dwellers will see their cars going into limp mode at 30000 or 40000 k from being clogged in the sacred name of pollution elimination. Diesels also have an EGR (Exhaust Gas Re-circulation) system that takes some of the exhaust gasses and funnels it back through the intake, the intent is to reduce the temperature of the gasses in the exhaust by introducing already spent gas into the cylinder meaning less combustibles to burn. This reduces the NOX (a nasty carcinogen). By itself, not a great problem, but when combined with the PCV (positive crankcase ventilation which is a mixture of gasses and vaporized oil and fuel) mixing the fumes, oil and carbon deposits, the carbon builds up in the engine intake and strangles the engine slowly. The PCV can be fixed, to a degree, with a catch can that removes much of the oil from the fumes. The EGR cannot be legally touched, although many do block it off (both electronically and physically). And the good old DPF is illegal to touch at all and huge fines can be the result. The final nail in the coffin is the diesel we have in Australia, known to be the dirtyiest IN THE WORLD. Although it does "Supposedly" meet minimum standards for diesel, it is so dirty that many countries will not send some of their more modern engines to Australia because the fuel will clog the engines in short order. This is more evident in petrol cars, but diesels are also in there. The fuel is so dirty that modern injectors fail due to contamination regularly. The DPF issue in Toyota is so bad that there is a class action being fought about it. People driving to the onerous conditions required still have them clogging at an alarming rate Imagine being told that you have to drive a very special way at a special speed for a specific time every month or your warranty is void...really good stuff eh? But Toyota isnt the only problematic manufacturer. Mitsubishi, Ford, Mazda all have DPF issues. So we have the mighty diesel, an engine known for long life and hard work for more than 500000klm now being less reliable and prone to failing at less than 40000 klm. But petrol engines are not really any better than diesel, its just not as obvious because they dont blow carbon as they wear out like diesels. the carcinogenic particulates are just as prevalent in petrol cars as diesel, and in larger quantities because petrol cars use more fuel, on average 20% more. They are planning DPF for cars, that will be the end of ICE engines and force people to use electric vehicles. The sad part is that Australia has none of the problems that Europe does with diesel engine emissions. Our cities are windblown all the time and less populated, so the fumes don't hang around. Additionally, we have large distances to travel, unlike Europe. But thanks to the greenie city dwellers and sycophantic politicians, we have to follow the world like sheep and stuff our engines. If my new 4x4 has any issues, I will be purchasing a pre-DPF vehicle and have it rebuilt from the ground up and get the 500000klm plus life I should get.

Thanks, very informative.
I agree with about all of what you have written