Will these be the big improver?

Great wall seems to be rapidly improving. They are doing in 5 years what Hyundai did in 20.

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2021 at 11:23am:

Great wall seems to be rapidly improving. They are doing in 5 years what Hyundai did in 20.

They’d need to. The junk imported into Oz recently has proven not only unreliable but parts are often not available. The parts problem though could be something to do with the trade war between China and Australia. I'll stay away from anything Chinese if I can possibly avoid it no matter how improved their manufacturing industry becomes. Same reason I’d have refused to buy anything from Nazi Germany.

It all depends on which company builds them.

I worked in China for several years improving the quality and build of some very expensive mining machines.
The company was owned by a multinational who took the builds seriously.

At first, the machines were so bad we had to bring in technicians from several countries to get them up to an acceptable level.
But as the Chinese assemblers got better and better, so did the quality.

We had to watch the materials carefully and that sometimes meant buying the suppliers to get them up to speed.
But in the end, the quality and reliability were pretty damn good.

With cars, the same will happen
Over time, as they get better and learn, the quality will improve.
After all, if you have seen some of the artwork and craftsmanship of the Chinese,  they are simply amazing.

The real problem is when you want something cheap.
You can get it, but the quality will never be there.

I don't trust any car manufacturer to be ethical but a Chinese car manufacturer I'd place on the bottom of the heap.

Let's say they start making decent cars, the manufacturing expense will go up and profit goes down, then they start substituting high tensile structural parts for mild steel or something silly like that.

Chinese can make good gear but I don't trust them.

Hello melamine in baby formula.

Gordon wrote on Jul 31^st, 2021 at 1:29pm:

I don't trust any car manufacturer to be ethical but a Chinese car manufacturer I'd place on the bottom of the heap. Let's say they start making decent cars, the manufacturing expense will go up and profit goes down, then they start substituting high tensile structural parts for mild steel or something silly like that. Chinese can make good gear but I don't trust them. Hello melamine in baby formula.

That's why you need to monitor them continually.

But Indians are worse.
The company I worked for several years ago ordered some cast parts for use.
It took a while, but we got reasonable parts after a year of negotiating.

Then suddenly the quality died off badly.
I was sent over, unannounced, to find out what was going on.
Long story short,, the factory had farmed out the job to a backyard contractor who had nowhere near the right equipment.

They tried to stop me leaving the country.
They even tried to send me prostitutes, but I wasn't silly, I headed straight to the airport from the factory.

Never, ever trust an Indian.

Ayn Marx wrote on Jul 31^st, 2021 at 12:31pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 31st, 2021 at 11:23am: Great wall seems to be rapidly improving. They are doing in 5 years what Hyundai did in 20. They’d need to. The junk imported into Oz recently has proven not only unreliable but parts are often not available. The parts problem though could be something to do with the trade war between China and Australia. I'll stay away from anything Chinese if I can possibly avoid it no matter how improved their manufacturing industry becomes. Same reason I’d have refused to buy anything from Nazi Germany.

I've been warned off them by several people, but I test drive a Haval recently and it seemed nice enough. Lots of bells and whistles. No idea about the longevity though.

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2021 at 6:58pm:

Ayn Marx wrote on Jul 31st, 2021 at 12:31pm: freediver wrote on Jul 31st, 2021 at 11:23am: Great wall seems to be rapidly improving. They are doing in 5 years what Hyundai did in 20. They’d need to. The junk imported into Oz recently has proven not only unreliable but parts are often not available. The parts problem though could be something to do with the trade war between China and Australia. I'll stay away from anything Chinese if I can possibly avoid it no matter how improved their manufacturing industry becomes. Same reason I’d have refused to buy anything from Nazi Germany. I've been warned off them by several people, but I test drive a Haval recently and it seemed nice enough. Lots of bells and whistles. No idea about the longevity though.

The hit you'd take on resale (or lack of) would fund buying a better car in the first place, if you have the cash up front 

hers what one happy customer said online about great Wall utes


Quote:

The worse car I have ever bought in over 40 years of driving. In just 5 years its been towed 5 times. The dealership is the worse I have ever experienced, customer service NON EXISTENCE, they lied about a free loan car, mechanics at Phoenix and Paceway admitted it is difficult to obtain Technical information from China. Now it won't start, Autostrada very arrogant, they said I should just scrap it, sell as wrecking, but no one can get it started. no body wants it, spent over $3,000. and still won't start. Gone from $27,990 to ZERO in 5 years. Worse investment ever! Notice how they keep changing the name, From Great Wall, to Steed, to Havel, and now LDV. STILL THE SAME VEHICLE. Stay Well Away!

https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/great-wall-steed-v-series

Interesting, the main chinese vehicle company has some good history.


Quote:

.............  Cars that were previously assembled in China from knock-down kits provisioned by Volkswagen[16] became products built from parts produced in Shanghai,[17] and between 1990 and 1996 the city more than doubled its contribution to the national output of automotive components.[15] In 1987, the only local parts used in one car, the Volkswagen Santana, were tires, radio, and antenna,[18] but by 1998 over 90% of the components used in its manufacture were locally sourced.[17] A goal set by the Shanghai Municipal government,[12] creation of a local parts industry is an example of the influence that the local government has had on the development of SAIC.  .................. ................   In 2011, SAIC produced 3.97 million vehicles, the largest output of any China-based automaker that year.[36] In June 2012, SAIC's United States-based subsidiary Shanghai Automotive Industries Corp USA, Inc. opened a new North American Operations Center in Birmingham, Michigan.[37][38][39] The opening ceremony was attended by the Governor of Michigan Rick Snyder, Oakland County Executive L. Brooks Patterson, and senior executives from General Motors and SAIC Motor.[39] The 30,000-square-foot, three-story facility will house nearly 100 staff and focus on sourcing components.[37] In 2012, SAIC retained its top spot among domestic rivals by producing around 3.5 million units.[40]       ...............

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAIC_Motor

If they make 3,000,000 vehicles annually, they are pretty good at it.

rhino wrote on Jul 31^st, 2021 at 7:16pm:

hers what one happy customer said online about great Wall utes Quote: The worse car I have ever bought in over 40 years of driving. In just 5 years its been towed 5 times. The dealership is the worse I have ever experienced, customer service NON EXISTENCE, they lied about a free loan car, mechanics at Phoenix and Paceway admitted it is difficult to obtain Technical information from China. Now it won't start, Autostrada very arrogant, they said I should just scrap it, sell as wrecking, but no one can get it started. no body wants it, spent over $3,000. and still won't start. Gone from $27,990 to ZERO in 5 years. Worse investment ever! Notice how they keep changing the name, From Great Wall, to Steed, to Havel, and now LDV. STILL THE SAME VEHICLE. Stay Well Away! https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/great-wall-steed-v-series

Quote:

..........  LDV G10 after nearly 2 years. published 2 months ago LDV G10.. I was suspect.. LOTS.. having 25 years of vans from early terrible Ford vans to better Toyota HI Ace & SBV.. 10 years with a Ford Transit mid roof Diesel etc. The Fact these were Chinese.. Leyland Daff Vehicle do get past it.. as the engine is as I understand it... Nissan Diesel, gearbox Ford, Suspension partly GM, Electrics Bosch.. and body design.. (I suspect was actually Holden By Design.. but fact check all that somehow). .. The van I bought was the Diesel Auto.. barn doors excellent for minor pallet loading.. then dual side doors.. Seat for driver and often forgotten passenger are very comfortable and material heavy duty. Stereo , cruise, el windows, central lock.. etc all good.. WHAT SUCKS is the blue tooth phone mic.. for petes sake LDV fix this up.. We'll be paying for a private installer to improve that.at $160.. so be it. Overall IT IS THE BEST VAN WE HAVE EVER OWNED.. We brought a 2nd one 14 days ago May 2021 from LDV Campbelltown.. traded in our other van a VW Caddy Maxi diesel auto. Again.. the best van we have had. END OF Story..           ...............

https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/ldv-g10

Lookout for these little electric cheap as chips Chinese beauties flooding the market soon.

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Johnnie wrote on Jul 31^st, 2021 at 7:43pm:

Lookout for these little electric cheap as chips Chinese beauties flooding the market soon.

Wow - never heard of them before


Quote:

...........   The Hongguang Mini EV has a top speed of 100 km/h (62 mph) and an estimated range of 170 km (110 mi).    ..........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuling_Hongguang_Mini_EV



Quote:

.............  In January, CarAdvice reported a hard-top variant of the Hongguang Mini EV – designed and built as part of a collaboration between SAIC and General Motors – outsold the Tesla Model 3 in China throughout January 2021, thanks in part to its impressive AU$5700 price tag.              ..............

https://www.caradvice.com.au/946274/wuling-hongguang-mini-ev-cabrio-convertible-concept-revealed-in-shanghai/

Sprintcyclist wrote on Jul 31^st, 2021 at 7:27pm:

rhino wrote on Jul 31st, 2021 at 7:16pm: hers what one happy customer said online about great Wall utes Quote: The worse car I have ever bought in over 40 years of driving. In just 5 years its been towed 5 times. The dealership is the worse I have ever experienced, customer service NON EXISTENCE, they lied about a free loan car, mechanics at Phoenix and Paceway admitted it is difficult to obtain Technical information from China. Now it won't start, Autostrada very arrogant, they said I should just scrap it, sell as wrecking, but no one can get it started. no body wants it, spent over $3,000. and still won't start. Gone from $27,990 to ZERO in 5 years. Worse investment ever! Notice how they keep changing the name, From Great Wall, to Steed, to Havel, and now LDV. STILL THE SAME VEHICLE. Stay Well Away! https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/great-wall-steed-v-series [quote]..........  LDV G10 after nearly 2 years. published 2 months ago LDV G10.. I was suspect.. LOTS.. having 25 years of vans from early terrible Ford vans to better Toyota HI Ace & SBV.. 10 years with a Ford Transit mid roof Diesel etc. The Fact these were Chinese.. Leyland Daff Vehicle do get past it.. as the engine is as I understand it... Nissan Diesel, gearbox Ford, Suspension partly GM, Electrics Bosch.. and body design.. (I suspect was actually Holden By Design.. but fact check all that somehow). .. The van I bought was the Diesel Auto.. barn doors excellent for minor pallet loading.. then dual side doors.. Seat for driver and often forgotten passenger are very comfortable and material heavy duty. Stereo , cruise, el windows, central lock.. etc all good.. WHAT SUCKS is the blue tooth phone mic.. for petes sake LDV fix this up.. We'll be paying for a private installer to improve that.at $160.. so be it. Overall IT IS THE BEST VAN WE HAVE EVER OWNED.. We brought a 2nd one 14 days ago May 2021 from LDV Campbelltown.. traded in our other van a VW Caddy Maxi diesel auto. Again.. the best van we have had. END OF Story..           ...............

https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/ldv-g10[/quote]
Whats your point? Tons of negative reviews on that same site, much more negative than positive. And not just negative its always "stay away from this piece of cr@p" negative.

Johnnie wrote on Jul 31^st, 2021 at 7:43pm:

Lookout for these little electric cheap as chips Chinese beauties flooding the market soon.

We used to be able to make good washing machines i don't know why we can't make these things.

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Quote:

.......... LDV G10 3.3 stars out of 5 stars from 57 reviews · View Statistics          ............

https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/ldv-g10

Not a disaster and a big improver.

I've read comments on other car forums saying the resale of a Chinese car bought today should be budgeted at $zero.

Yes, they will improve a lot, and we'll probably be getting a lot more Chinese cars, and nobody will want a 10 year old Chinese car.

A 10 year old RAV4, average price is about $15k.

You can pick up a Haval H2 for 22k. Makes more economic sense to spend $30 on a Toyota.

Gordon - yes, things change though


Quote:

.......... In all though, in terms of the electric-powered side of things, the ZS does what it says on the box. The 50kW fast-charging interface relies on the charger itself, and we found although the relatively rudimentary 7kW ‘home charge’ speed isn’t quick, it became second nature for drivers to simply plug it when it wasn’t being used.   .................. .............. So yes, Australia’s most affordable electric car is an effective electric car. It worked as a compact SUV too. The interior layout is very similar to the petrol ZS and ZST models, with the rotary gear selector the main differentiator. It has an easy to use layout, and while the surfaces may look more premium than they are to touch, it’s a good blend of ‘nice’ in what is fundamentally an affordable vehicle.  .................

https://www.caradvice.com.au/967309/2021-mg-zs-ev-long-term-review-farewell/