The following article on Israel's illegal occupation of Palestinian land was written in response to an opinion piece that appeared in The New York Times on 21 March 2002. That piece, entitled 'Annan's Careless Language' and written by Mr George P. Fletcher, contended that the Israeli occupation is not illegal, as was stated by UN Secretary-General [Kofi] Annan. This article, which was submitted to The New York Times for publication but regrettably declined, confronts this contention with a concise explanation regarding the undeniably illegal nature of the Israeli occupation.

Israel's Illegal Occupation
By Nasser Al-Kidwa

Bringing an end to the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land is as much a prerequisite for peace in the Middle East as is the Palestinian recognition of Israel. The Israeli occupation is not only inhuman and the cause of extreme suffering for the 3.5 million Palestinians living under its subjugation, but it is also illegal under international law. Attempts to claim otherwise have no legal validity and are morally bankrupt and politically dangerous since they basically preclude the achievement of peace.

While it is true that victorious powers can legally occupy hostile territories seized in the course of conflict - an example of which is the Allies' occupation of the territory of Nazi Germany during World War II, foreign occupation should nevertheless be a temporary situation, pending a political settlement or solution. During the interim, the occupying Power must comply with relevant instruments of international humanitarian law with regard to its conduct in the territory it has occupied.

International law is very clear on two basic principles: the inadmissibility of the acquisition of  territory  by  war  and  the  prohibition  of  the  transfer  of  civilians of  the occupying Power to the occupied territory. Both are intended to prevent expansionism and the colonisation of occupied territories. Both complement another explicit principle of international law, namely the right of peoples to self-determination, a right that a colonial or occupying Power is obliged to respect.

The Israeli occupation has clearly violated all three of these principles of international law. In fact, throughout its prolonged occupation, Israel has persistently and aggressively breached international law.

Thus, what makes the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land illegal is not the fact that it occurred during the war of 1967 (regardless of the narrative concerning the causes of the war). What makes the Israeli occupation illegal is that it has existed for 35 years, during which time it transformed into a form of colonialism and suppressed and oppressed an entire people for decades, preventing them from the exercise of their right to self-determination and the establishment of their State, Palestine.

Israel, as an occupying Power, has undertaken countless measures attempting to change the legal status, demographic composition and character of the territory by confiscating land, exploiting natural resources, building more than 250 settlements, transferring more than 400,000 Israelis to the occupied territories, establishing a dual system of law and even annexing part of the territory.

These actions have been carried out in direct contravention of the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, which, among other things, defines the rules of conduct and the obligations of the occupying Power. Clearly then, the active intent of the Israeli occupation has been to negate Palestinian rights, to create new facts on the ground and to illegally expand Israel's borders.

Security Council resolution 242 (1967), which is the bedrock of the peace process and of any future peace settlement, is anchored in the principle of the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war. The old and deceptive argument that the resolution calls for withdrawal from 'territories' and not 'the territories' not withstanding (in fact, the French text of the resolution does contain the article 'the'). The call in the resolution for the withdrawal of Israel can only be read within the context of the above-mentioned principle.

Since the onset of the Israeli occupation in 1967, and in response to established, illegal policies and practices of the occupying Power, the Security Council has adopted 26 resolutions that affirmed the applicability of the Fourth Geneva Convention to the territories occupied by Israel. Of those resolutions, several deal directly with the issue of Israeli settlements and several also specifically deal with Israeli violations in Occupied East Jerusalem.

The resolutions clearly address the illegality of Israel's policies and practices with regard to both issues. For example, some of the resolutions affirm that the Israeli settlements 'have no legal validity'; call upon the government and people of Israel 'to dismantle the existing settlements'; and call upon 'all States not to provide Israel with any assistance to be used specifically in connection with settlements in the occupied territories'.

(cont'd next post)

As for Occupied East Jerusalem, which the Israeli government illegally annexed in 1980, the Security Council, in resolution 478 (1980), determined 'that all legislative and administrative measures and actions taken by Israel, the occupying Power, which have altered or purport to alter the character and status of the Holy City of Jerusalem, and, in particular, the recent "basic law" on Jerusalem are null and void and must be rescinded forthwith'.

Similar affirmations were made by the Council in several other resolutions. Moreover, the General Assembly and other UN organs have adopted scores of resolutions on the illegal policies and practices of the Israeli occupation and on the legitimacy of, and the necessity for, the exercise of the right to self-determination by the Palestinian people.

There has therefore been absolutely no impropriety on the part of the UN Secretary-General concerning his recent statements with regard to the Israeli occupation. Kofi Annan's call for an end to 'the illegal occupation' was not only legally correct but was also not a concept invented by the Secretary-General, as reflected in the numerous resolutions of the United Nations. It was, however, important for Mr Annan to add his moral authority to the urgent need for an end to that illegal occupation, particularly during this late stage in the perilous deterioration of the situation.

In that statement on 12 March 2002, the Secretary-General addressed both the Palestinian and Israeli sides. The Palestinian side probably did not like everything it heard. But, taken in its entirety, the statement was widely viewed as a necessary and responsible call that intended to, and should, help the parties to move forward towards a peaceful settlement. For this to happen, the Israeli people and the Israeli government must indeed come to terms, for once and for all, with the illegality of their occupation and the need for its termination. - Third World Network Features
About the writer: Dr Nasser Al-Kidwa is Ambassador and Permanent Observer of Palestine to the United Nations.

The above article first appeared in Palestine & the UN (Vol. 7 Issue 8, mid-September 2002).

The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins. 

The Jewish claim to Palestine is based on the existence of a kingdom that reigned for only 414 years (Beatty, I: Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan.) The Jewish kingdoms were only one of many periods of ancient Palestine.

http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/cra0265.htm

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 4:44pm:

The Jewish claim to Palestine is based on the existence of a kingdom that reigned for only 414 years (Beatty, I: Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan.) The Jewish kingdoms were only one of many periods of ancient Palestine. http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/cra0265.htm

The persistence of (collective) memory has an indefinite upper limit.

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 4:44pm:

The Jewish claim to Palestine is based on the existence of a kingdom that reigned for only 414 years (Beatty, I: Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan.) The Jewish kingdoms were only one of many periods of ancient Palestine. http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/cra0265.htm

While the Palestinian Kingdom existed for 0 years.

So the Jews are 414 + 73 years up on the 'Palestinians', an invented people.

Bertie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 5:09pm:

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:44pm: The Jewish claim to Palestine is based on the existence of a kingdom that reigned for only 414 years (Beatty, I: Arab and Jew in the Land of Canaan.) The Jewish kingdoms were only one of many periods of ancient Palestine. http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/cra0265.htm While the Palestinian Kingdom existed for 0 years. So the Jews are 414 + 73 years up on the 'Palestinians', an invented people.

What's this, a rehash of the argument that Palestine was an uninhabited land?

The West Bank and Gaza, or Israel proper, have never been 'Palestinian Lands'.

Until 1918 they were Ottoman Empire, then British administered UN mandate, then Jordan and Egypt occupied land and Israel, respectively. Then they attacked Israel in 1967 and Israel occupied them, plus the Golan Heights.  Arab aggression lost the Arabs the WB, Gaza, Golan.


That's why the Jews say, 'thank God we have the for Arabs for enemies'. 
It could have been smart people. But then they would have sorted it by now.

Belgarion wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 4:39pm:

The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.

And therefor?

The lands of Israel / Palestine have been fought over for thousands of years for either military or religious reasons or both.

It has religious significance for the three monotheistic religions and is now imbued with the status of an ultimate place of refuge.

There is no absolute right over its sovereignty... Just the prevailing of whichever nation or people needs it most.

It may be illegal but good luck trying to kick the Jews out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option


Samson Option

In 2003, a military historian, Martin van Creveld, thought that the Al-Aqsa Intifada then in progress threatened Israel's existence.[34] Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst's The Gun and the Olive Branch (2003) as saying:

    We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: 'Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.' I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third.

We have the capability to take the world down with us.
And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.[35]

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 5:26pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:39pm: The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.  And therefor?

And therefore they accepted UN resolution 181 and ARE THERE, a functioning democracy, something you cant say about any of its Arab enemies.

But you will side with any grusome monster as long as he, fee fy fo fam, wants to grind the bones of a Jew.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 5:33pm:

The lands of Israel / Palestine have been fought over for thousands of years for either military or religious reasons or both. It has religious significance for the three monotheistic religions and is now imbued with the status of an ultimate place of refuge. There is no absolute right over its sovereignty... Just the prevailing of whichever nation or people needs it most.

Yes-ish.
Islam is a patchwork of leftovers and misunderstandings, badly thrown together.  Mohammed went to the moon and back on a horse  from Jerusalem - so now Jerusalem is holy to Muslims??  You wouldn't  tolerate this nonsense in a 9 year old, even if you made her your wife......

Frank wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 5:50pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:26pm: Belgarion wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:39pm: The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.  And therefor? And therefore they accepted UN resolution 181 and ARE THERE, a functioning democracy, something you cant say about any of its Arab enemies. But you will side with any grusome monster as long as he, fee fy fo fam, wants to grind the bones of a Jew.

Belgarion's point was simple.......zero to do with any UN thing.


Quote:

The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.

Therefor.........???

Frank wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 5:54pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:33pm: The lands of Israel / Palestine have been fought over for thousands of years for either military or religious reasons or both. It has religious significance for the three monotheistic religions and is now imbued with the status of an ultimate place of refuge. There is no absolute right over its sovereignty... Just the prevailing of whichever nation or people needs it most. Yes-ish. Islam is a patchwork of leftovers and misunderstandings, badly thrown together.  Mohammed went to the moon and back on a horse  from Jerusalem - so now Jerusalem is holy to Muslims??  You wouldn't  tolerate this nonsense in a 9 year old, even if you made her your wife......

And the Foundation Stone (sacred to Judaism, Christianity and Islam) in Jerusalem (under the Dome of the Rock) was where god created the world and Adam?

Jerusalem - where a dead man came back to life?

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 5:26pm:

Belgarion wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:39pm: The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.  And therefor?

Yeah, same therefore to the Aborigines.

Frank wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:09pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:26pm: Belgarion wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:39pm: The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.  And therefor? Yeah, same therefore to the Aborigines.

I wonder if Balgarion agrees?

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:14pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:09pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:26pm: Belgarion wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:39pm: The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.  And therefor? Yeah, same therefore to the Aborigines. I wonder if Balgarion agrees?

More to the point - do you??

Frank wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:16pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:14pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:09pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:26pm: Belgarion wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:39pm: The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.  And therefor? Yeah, same therefore to the Aborigines. I wonder if Balgarion agrees? More to the point - do you??

Well.....if Jews have a right to the State of Israel because they have been there 3000 years, then the corollary is....we better hand Australia back to the Aborigines who have been here over 60,000 years, yes?

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:40pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:16pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:14pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:09pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:26pm: Belgarion wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:39pm: The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.  And therefor? Yeah, same therefore to the Aborigines. I wonder if Balgarion agrees? More to the point - do you?? Well.....if Jews have a right to the State of Israel because they have been there 3000 years, then the corollary is....we better hand Australia back to the Aborigines who have been here over 60,000 years, yes?

If they had a strong enough military, then it's theirs.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:45pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:40pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:16pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:14pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:09pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:26pm: Belgarion wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:39pm: The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.  And therefor? Yeah, same therefore to the Aborigines. I wonder if Balgarion agrees? More to the point - do you?? Well.....if Jews have a right to the State of Israel because they have been there 3000 years, then the corollary is....we better hand Australia back to the Aborigines who have been here over 60,000 years, yes? If they had a strong enough military, then it's theirs.

In 1948 when the Brits influenced the creation of the State of Israel, it had zero military, or no better than Arabs had vis a vie Jews.  It bristles now because of massive ongoing Western support which I cannot logically explain.

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:50pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:45pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:40pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:16pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:14pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:09pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:26pm: Belgarion wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:39pm: The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.  And therefor? Yeah, same therefore to the Aborigines. I wonder if Balgarion agrees? More to the point - do you?? Well.....if Jews have a right to the State of Israel because they have been there 3000 years, then the corollary is....we better hand Australia back to the Aborigines who have been here over 60,000 years, yes? If they had a strong enough military, then it's theirs. In 1948 when the Brits influenced the creation of the State of Israel, it had zero military, or no better than Arabs had vis a vie Jews.  It bristles now because of massive ongoing Western support which I cannot logically explain.

Well, there was all that reparations money paid by West Germany / Germany... And then there was the extreme interest and patronage extended by the US to Israel after the Israelis who had so conclusively and incredibly won the 1967 war in just six days... Ashkenasi Jews, bloody overachievers!!

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 4:44pm:

The Jewish claim to Palestine is based on the existence of a kingdom that reigned for only 414 years.....

"only 414 years"

That is an absurd claim, imo.

Shame on you wombatwoody.


.




Yadda wrote on Feb 18^th, 2014 at 12:08am:

Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history       :P Could you answer some basic questions about the country of Palestine ? : 1. When was it founded and by whom? 2. What language did the Palestinians speak? 3. What writing [script] did they use? 4. What manuscripts did they leave? 5. What was their religion? 6. Where are their temples? 7. What monuments attest to their existence? 8. What were its borders? 9. What was the name of its capital? 10. What were its major cities? 11. What constituted the basis of its economy? 12. What was the name of the currency that they used? 13. What was its form of government? 14. What achievements have they accomplished? 15. What other peoples did Palestine interact with? 16. Where can one find any [historic] records, wherein the country of Palestine and its people are mentioned? 17. What archaeological sites can one name? 18. Where can one find the recorded history of these people? 19. Whom did they conquer?, or, were conquered by? 20. Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation [or doubt]? 21. What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine? 22. Can anyone name at least five Palestinian leaders before Arafat? 23. Finally, since there is no such recognised country today, what caused its demise and when did it occur? Further, why did these proud 'Palestinians' between 1948 and 1967, passively, allow themselves to be occupied by the Jordanians in the 'West Bank', and by the Egyptians in Gaza? Those Q's  [above] are taken from; Part 142 - Palestine and Palestinians http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04iGfi9No6M ........... ...........

'The Palestinian State', is a national entity that has never existed, and which can never exist, except within the borders of Jordan [the nation which is the ancient homeland of all of the 'Palestinian' people].


Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1392646116/0#0



.



The reality is that a 'Palestinian nation' has NEVER EXISTED.

But [in contrast], historic accounts attest, that Jewish people have certainly inhabited that land from 1,400 BC, forward.

And...... 1,400 BC to 2,021 > 414 years.


.


But moslems will insist that it was only ever moslems, that inhabited the land of 'Palestine'.
....AND NEVER A JEWISH PEOPLE.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1557114588/25#25


Quote:

Temple Mount '100% Islamic' June 01, 2008 "....Taysir Tamimi, chief Palestinian Justice and one of the most influential Muslim leaders in Israel, argued the Jewish Temples never existed,...."

Quote:

n.b. And just look how moslems respond,            whenever additional, independent historic sources, contradict the moslem 'narrative' of 'their' history.... ".....descriptions of the Jewish Temples in the Hebrew Tanach, in the Talmud and in Byzantine and Roman writings from the Temple periods were forged,...." Oh, but of course they were!

.


QUESTION;
Who are we going to believe ?

Accepted, authentic, historic records [from differing sources],
or the self-serving narratives of moslems ?


.


QUESTION;
Please tell me, what is the origin of the name Judea ?

A name, which has been associated with an area of land inhabited by    JEWISH PEOPLE     for millennia ?


Judea ?

....Oh, i wonder if that name for the land, came from the Koran ?   /sarc off


QUESTION;
For how many centuries has the name Judea been used [to identify that area of land] ?

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:53pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:50pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:45pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:40pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:16pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:14pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:09pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:26pm: Belgarion wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:39pm: The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.  And therefor? Yeah, same therefore to the Aborigines. I wonder if Balgarion agrees? More to the point - do you?? Well.....if Jews have a right to the State of Israel because they have been there 3000 years, then the corollary is....we better hand Australia back to the Aborigines who have been here over 60,000 years, yes? If they had a strong enough military, then it's theirs. In 1948 when the Brits influenced the creation of the State of Israel, it had zero military, or no better than Arabs had vis a vie Jews.  It bristles now because of massive ongoing Western support which I cannot logically explain. Well, there was all that reparations money paid by West Germany / Germany... And then there was the extreme interest and patronage extended by the US to Israel after the Israelis who had so conclusively and incredibly won the 1967 war in just six days... Ashkenasi Jews, bloody overachievers!!

Link?

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 7:01pm:

Link?

Aww, please Aussie... You say you're a lawyer and you don't know about this?

You can google it or go to Germany and (after you've established confidence) ask them what they think of having to pay reparations (even to date) -  the 'Israel tax'.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 7:06pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 7:01pm: Link? Aww, please Aussie... You say you're a lawyer and you don't know about this? You can google it or go to Germany and (after you've established confidence) ask them what they think of having to pay reparations (even to date) -  the 'Israel tax'.

I had googled it before my post.  That's why I asked YOU for a link which supports your assertion.

Link?

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 7:01pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:53pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:50pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:45pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:40pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:16pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:14pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:09pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:26pm: Belgarion wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:39pm: The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.  And therefor? Yeah, same therefore to the Aborigines. I wonder if Balgarion agrees? More to the point - do you?? Well.....if Jews have a right to the State of Israel because they have been there 3000 years, then the corollary is....we better hand Australia back to the Aborigines who have been here over 60,000 years, yes? If they had a strong enough military, then it's theirs. In 1948 when the Brits influenced the creation of the State of Israel, it had zero military, or no better than Arabs had vis a vie Jews.  It bristles now because of massive ongoing Western support which I cannot logically explain. Well, there was all that reparations money paid by West Germany / Germany... And then there was the extreme interest and patronage extended by the US to Israel after the Israelis who had so conclusively and incredibly won the 1967 war in just six days... Ashkenasi Jews, bloody overachievers!! Link?

Because without a link Arssie couldn't possibly know ANYTHING about German reparations.  Or anything.

Provide a link to everything you post from now on, arse, otherwise WHO KNOWS what you might mean.
(You mongs are ALL fccn Bwianesque - po-faced 'oh, yeah??" cockwombles. )

Just thought I'd throw this in:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset

Bonus Question:-  How many Jews are in government in any Arab state???

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 7:15pm:

Just thought I'd throw this in:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset Bonus Question:-  How many Jews are in government in any Arab state???

Who cares?

Are Arabs second class citizens of the State of Israel....you know...that beacon of democracy Effendi describes?

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:40pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:16pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:14pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:09pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:26pm: Belgarion wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:39pm: The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.  And therefor? Yeah, same therefore to the Aborigines. I wonder if Balgarion agrees? More to the point - do you?? Well.....if Jews have a right to the State of Israel because they have been there 3000 years, then the corollary is....we better hand Australia back to the Aborigines who have been here over 60,000 years, yes?

Impossible - not only were they genocided (don' cha know?), but they are a minority - whereas Israelis of both Jewish and Arabic persuasion are the majority...

Hooooow do ya know?  How do ya KNOW?    How do you know the Aborignes lived here for 60,000 years?  Some old bones?  What if it was only ten of them wandering in from Java or something?

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 7:15pm:

Just thought I'd throw this in:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset Bonus Question:-  How many Jews are in government in any Arab state???

Al Sissi of Egypt is reputed to be a surreptitious Jew.

It wouldn't matter if there were ten thousand Arabs in Israel's parliament. The Jews would not allow them to have any power that could not be overwhelmed by the majority Jews acting in unison.

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 7:20pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 7:15pm: Just thought I'd throw this in:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset Bonus Question:-  How many Jews are in government in any Arab state??? Who cares? Are Arabs second class citizens of the State of Israel....you know...that beacon of democracy Effendi describes?

Members of the Knesset have the same rights as all other members.... ergo, you would expect that to flow down to all other, neh?

Only Those Arabs Who Come In Every Day Are Subject To Border Checks etc... those who bombard the place cannot expect any treatment other than being detained etc ... those who live there permanently are by no means oppressed but have all rights and the same obligations to stand by the laws of the land.

Rule #1 - NO Jihad!

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 7:20pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:40pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:16pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:14pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:09pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:26pm: Belgarion wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:39pm: The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.  And therefor? Yeah, same therefore to the Aborigines. I wonder if Balgarion agrees? More to the point - do you?? Well.....if Jews have a right to the State of Israel because they have been there 3000 years, then the corollary is....we better hand Australia back to the Aborigines who have been here over 60,000 years, yes? Impossible - not only were they genocided (don' cha know?), but they are a minority - whereas Israelis of both Jewish and Arabic persuasion are the majority... Hooooow do ya know?  How do ya KNOW?    How do you know the Aborignes lived here for 60,000 years?  Some old bones?  What if it was only ten of them wandering in from Java or something?

Yeahs....what if.

Maybe you should ask Igor.

I'll go with the accepted science.

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 7:20pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 7:15pm: Just thought I'd throw this in:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset Bonus Question:-  How many Jews are in government in any Arab state??? Who cares? Are Arabs second class citizens of the State of Israel....you know...that beacon of democracy Effendi describes?

Who cares??

You hold Jews to standards you are not prepared to apply to Muslims.


I doubt you even comprehend that point.

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 7:29pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 7:20pm: Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 7:15pm: Just thought I'd throw this in:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset Bonus Question:-  How many Jews are in government in any Arab state??? Who cares? Are Arabs second class citizens of the State of Israel....you know...that beacon of democracy Effendi describes? Members of the Knesset have the same rights as all other members.... ergo, you would expect that to flow down to all other, neh? Only Those Arabs Who Come In Every Day Are Subject To Border Checks etc... those who bombard the place cannot expect any treatment other than being detained etc ... those who live there permanently are by no means oppressed but have all rights and the same obligations to stand by the laws of the land. Rule #1 - NO Jihad!

The question you were asked was.................

Are Arabs second class citizens of the State of Israel....you know...that beacon of democracy Effendi describes?

Frank wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 7:13pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 7:01pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:53pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:50pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:45pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:40pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:16pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:14pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:09pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:26pm: Belgarion wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:39pm: The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.  And therefor? Yeah, same therefore to the Aborigines. I wonder if Balgarion agrees? More to the point - do you?? Well.....if Jews have a right to the State of Israel because they have been there 3000 years, then the corollary is....we better hand Australia back to the Aborigines who have been here over 60,000 years, yes? If they had a strong enough military, then it's theirs. In 1948 when the Brits influenced the creation of the State of Israel, it had zero military, or no better than Arabs had vis a vie Jews.  It bristles now because of massive ongoing Western support which I cannot logically explain. Well, there was all that reparations money paid by West Germany / Germany... And then there was the extreme interest and patronage extended by the US to Israel after the Israelis who had so conclusively and incredibly won the 1967 war in just six days... Ashkenasi Jews, bloody overachievers!! Link? Because without a link Arssie couldn't possibly know ANYTHING about German reparations.  Or anything.

I'm stunned that a lawyer would need be provided a link to one of history's greatest reparation stories of the 20th century, if not of all time.

Frank wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 7:31pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 7:20pm: Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 7:15pm: Just thought I'd throw this in:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset Bonus Question:-  How many Jews are in government in any Arab state??? Who cares? Are Arabs second class citizens of the State of Israel....you know...that beacon of democracy Effendi describes? Who cares?? You hold Jews to standards you are not prepared to apply to Muslims. I doubt you even comprehend that point.

I hold the Government of the State of Israel to live up to the declaration, oft asserted here by Effendi...that the State of Israel is a beacon of democracy.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 7:35pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 7:13pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 7:01pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:53pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:50pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:45pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:40pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:16pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:14pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:09pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:26pm: Belgarion wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:39pm: The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.  And therefor? Yeah, same therefore to the Aborigines. I wonder if Balgarion agrees? More to the point - do you?? Well.....if Jews have a right to the State of Israel because they have been there 3000 years, then the corollary is....we better hand Australia back to the Aborigines who have been here over 60,000 years, yes? If they had a strong enough military, then it's theirs. In 1948 when the Brits influenced the creation of the State of Israel, it had zero military, or no better than Arabs had vis a vie Jews.  It bristles now because of massive ongoing Western support which I cannot logically explain. Well, there was all that reparations money paid by West Germany / Germany... And then there was the extreme interest and patronage extended by the US to Israel after the Israelis who had so conclusively and incredibly won the 1967 war in just six days... Ashkenasi Jews, bloody overachievers!! Link? Because without a link Arssie couldn't possibly know ANYTHING about German reparations.  Or anything. I'm stunned that a lawyer would need be provided a link to one of history's greatest reparation stories of the 20th century, if not of all time.

Link?

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 7:37pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 7:35pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 7:13pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 7:01pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:53pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:50pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:45pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:40pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:16pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:14pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:09pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:26pm: Belgarion wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:39pm: The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.  And therefor? Yeah, same therefore to the Aborigines. I wonder if Balgarion agrees? More to the point - do you?? Well.....if Jews have a right to the State of Israel because they have been there 3000 years, then the corollary is....we better hand Australia back to the Aborigines who have been here over 60,000 years, yes? If they had a strong enough military, then it's theirs. In 1948 when the Brits influenced the creation of the State of Israel, it had zero military, or no better than Arabs had vis a vie Jews.  It bristles now because of massive ongoing Western support which I cannot logically explain. Well, there was all that reparations money paid by West Germany / Germany... And then there was the extreme interest and patronage extended by the US to Israel after the Israelis who had so conclusively and incredibly won the 1967 war in just six days... Ashkenasi Jews, bloody overachievers!! Link? Because without a link Arssie couldn't possibly know ANYTHING about German reparations.  Or anything. I'm stunned that a lawyer would need be provided a link to one of history's greatest reparation stories of the 20th century, if not of all time. Link?

Thank you , Brian.

You forgot to yawn. Tsk, tsk.  ::) ::)

So.......you have nothing, as usual.

Israelis, or more correctly Jews supported by Uncle Sam, are seeking to expel the Palestinians from all their land by oppression to make their lives unbearable.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution


Quote:

Seeking Maximal Land with Minimal Palestinians Israeli policy has sought to engineer and maximize the number of Jews, as well as the land available to them, in Israel and the portions of the OPT coveted by the Israeli government for Jewish settlement. At the same time, by restricting the residency rights of Palestinians, Israeli policy seeks to minimize the number of Palestinians and the land available to them in those areas. The level of repression is most severe in the OPT, although often less severe aspects of similar policies can be found within Israel. 202104mena_israelpalestine_separatingpalestiniansClick to expand Image In the West Bank, authorities have confiscated more than 2 million dunams of land from Palestinians, making up more than one-third of the West Bank, including tens of thousands of dunams that they acknowledge are privately owned by Palestinians. One common tactic they have used is to declare territory, including privately-owned Palestinian land, as “state land.” The Israeli group Peace Now estimates that the Israeli government has designated about 1.4 million dunams of land, or about a quarter of the West Bank, as state land. The group has also found that more than 30 percent of the land used for settlements is acknowledged by the Israeli government as having been privately owned by Palestinians. Of the more than 675,000 dunams of state land that Israeli authorities have allocated for use by third parties in the West Bank, they have earmarked more than 99 percent for use by Israeli civilians, according to government data. Land grabs for settlements and the infrastructure that primarily serves settlers effectively concentrate Palestinians in the West Bank, according to B’Tselem, into “165 non-contiguous ‘territorial islands.’” Israeli authorities have also made it virtually impossible in practice for Palestinians in Area C, the roughly 60 percent of the West Bank that the Oslo Accords placed under full Israeli control, as well as those in East Jerusalem, to obtain building permits. In Area C, for example, authorities approved less than 1.5 percent of applications by Palestinians to build between 2016 and 2018—21 in total—a figure 100 times smaller than the number of demolition orders it issued in the same period, according to official data. Israeli authorities have razed thousands of Palestinian properties in these areas for lacking a permit, leaving thousands of families displaced. By contrast, according to Peace Now, Israeli authorities began construction on more than 23,696 housing units between 2009 and 2020 in Israeli settlements in Area C. Transfer of an occupying power’s civilian population to an occupied territory violates the Fourth Geneva Convention. These policies grow out of longstanding Israeli government plans. For example, the 1980 Drobles Plan, which guided the government’s settlement policy in the West Bank at the time and built on prior plans, called for authorities to “settle the land between the [Arab] minority population centers and their surroundings,” noting that doing so would make it “hard for Palestinians to create territorial contiguity and political unity” and “remove any trace of doubt about our intention to control Judea and Samaria forever.” In Jerusalem, the government’s plan for the municipality, including both the west and occupied east of the city, sets the goal of “maintaining a solid Jewish majority in the city” and a target demographic “ratio of 70% Jews and 30% Arabs”—later adjusted to a 60:40 ratio after authorities acknowledged that “this goal is not attainable” in light of “the demographic trend.” The Israeli government has also carried out discriminatory seizures of land inside Israel. Authorities have seized through different mechanisms at least 4.5 million dunams of land from Palestinians, according to historians, constituting 65 to 75 percent of all land owned by Palestinians before 1948 and 40 to 60 percent of the land that belonged to Palestinians who remained after 1948 and became citizens of Israel. Authorities in the early years of the state declared land belonging to displaced Palestinians as “absentee property” or “closed military zones,” then took it over, converted it to state land, and built Jewish communities there. Authorities continue to block Palestinian citizen landowners from accessing land that was confiscated from them. A 2003 government-commissioned report found that “the expropriation activities were clearly and explicitly harnessed to the interests of the Jewish majority” and that state lands, which constitute 93 percent of all land in Israel, effectively serve the objective of “Jewish settlement.” Since 1948, the government has authorized the creation of more than 900 “Jewish localities” in Israel, but it has allowed only a handful of government-planned townships and villages for Palestinians, created largely to concentrate previously displaced Bedouin communities living in the Negev. Land confiscations and other discriminatory land policies in Israel hem in Palestinian municipalities inside Israel, denying them opportunities for natural expansion enjoyed by Jewish municipalities. ...

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 7:51pm:

So.......you have nothing, as usual.

Link?

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 8:14pm:

Israelis, or more correctly Jews supported by Uncle Sam, are seeking to expel the Palestinians from all their land by oppression to make their lives unbearable.

They can always migrate to Muslim countries.

But they won't take them. Even other Muslims don't want the palestinians - but Israel should have them.

Suuure.

Frank wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 8:48pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 8:14pm: Israelis, or more correctly Jews supported by Uncle Sam, are seeking to expel the Palestinians from all their land by oppression to make their lives unbearable. They can always migrate to Muslim countries. But they won't take them. Even other Muslims don't want the palestinians - but Israel should have them. Suuure.

Israel belongs to Muslims and Muslims belong to Israel.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 5:33pm:

The lands of Israel / Palestine have been fought over for thousands of years for either military or religious reasons or both. It has religious significance for the three monotheistic religions and is now imbued with the status of an ultimate place of refuge. There is no absolute right over its sovereignty... Just the prevailing of whichever nation or people needs it most.

And from the mid 20th century to date my money on those who need it most are the Jewish survivors and their descendants.

And so it goes with history into the present...

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 10:08pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:33pm: The lands of Israel / Palestine have been fought over for thousands of years for either military or religious reasons or both. It has religious significance for the three monotheistic religions and is now imbued with the status of an ultimate place of refuge. There is no absolute right over its sovereignty... Just the prevailing of whichever nation or people needs it most. And from the mid 20th century to date my money on those who need it most are the Jewish survivors and their descendants. And so it goes with history into the present...

I doubt your money travels very far from your pocket. Certainly not gifted to others.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 10:23pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 10:08pm: NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:33pm: The lands of Israel / Palestine have been fought over for thousands of years for either military or religious reasons or both. It has religious significance for the three monotheistic religions and is now imbued with the status of an ultimate place of refuge. There is no absolute right over its sovereignty... Just the prevailing of whichever nation or people needs it most. And from the mid 20th century to date my money on those who need it most are the Jewish survivors and their descendants. And so it goes with history into the present... I doubt your money travels very far from your pocket. Certainly not gifted to others.

Certainly, eh?

I'm certain you're a virtue signaller... How bought in to grievance culture are you?

What's your back story?

Meaningful suffering is easily got by identifying with the aggrieved without having suffered their suffering...

Once assimilated, suffering is easily made 'meaningful' and 'outrage' is easily deemed 'righteous' for little cost or effort.

Bertie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 5:25pm:

The West Bank and Gaza, or Israel proper, have never been 'Palestinian Lands'. Until 1918 they were Ottoman Empire, then British administered UN mandate, then Jordan and Egypt occupied land and Israel, respectively. Then they attacked Israel in 1967 and Israel occupied them, plus the Golan Heights.  Arab aggression lost the Arabs the WB, Gaza, Golan.

Ottoman census records show Palestine was widely inhabited in the late 19th and early 20th century, especially in the rural areas where agriculture was the main profession. According to Justine McCarthy (p. 26), an authority on the Ottoman Turks, Palestine's population in the early 19th century was 350,000, and in 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews.

Yadda wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:55pm:

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:44pm: The Jewish claim to Palestine is based on the existence of a kingdom that reigned for only 414 years..... "only 414 years" That is an absurd claim, imo. Shame on you wombatwoody. . Yadda wrote on Feb 18th, 2014 at 12:08am: Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history       :P Could you answer some basic questions about the country of Palestine ? : 1. When was it founded and by whom? 2. What language did the Palestinians speak? 3. What writing [script] did they use? 4. What manuscripts did they leave? 5. What was their religion? 6. Where are their temples? 7. What monuments attest to their existence? 8. What were its borders? 9. What was the name of its capital? 10. What were its major cities? 11. What constituted the basis of its economy? 12. What was the name of the currency that they used? 13. What was its form of government? 14. What achievements have they accomplished? 15. What other peoples did Palestine interact with? 16. Where can one find any [historic] records, wherein the country of Palestine and its people are mentioned? 17. What archaeological sites can one name? 18. Where can one find the recorded history of these people? 19. Whom did they conquer?, or, were conquered by? 20. Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation [or doubt]? 21. What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine? 22. Can anyone name at least five Palestinian leaders before Arafat? 23. Finally, since there is no such recognised country today, what caused its demise and when did it occur? Further, why did these proud 'Palestinians' between 1948 and 1967, passively, allow themselves to be occupied by the Jordanians in the 'West Bank', and by the Egyptians in Gaza? Those Q's  [above] are taken from; Part 142 - Palestine and Palestinians http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04iGfi9No6M ........... ........... 'The Palestinian State', is a national entity that has never existed, and which can never exist, except within the borders of Jordan [the nation which is the ancient homeland of all of the 'Palestinian' people]. Palestine - a nation with a prestigious history http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1392646116/0#0 . The reality is that a 'Palestinian nation' has NEVER EXISTED. But [in contrast], historic accounts attest, that Jewish people have certainly inhabited that land from 1,400 BC, forward. And...... 1,400 BC to 2,021 > 414 years. . But moslems will insist that it was only ever moslems, that inhabited the land of 'Palestine'. ....AND NEVER A JEWISH PEOPLE. http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1557114588/25#25 Quote: Temple Mount '100% Islamic' June 01, 2008 "....Taysir Tamimi, chief Palestinian Justice and one of the most influential Muslim leaders in Israel, argued the Jewish Temples never existed,...." [quote] n.b. And just look how moslems respond,            whenever additional, independent historic sources, contradict the moslem 'narrative' of 'their' history.... ".....descriptions of the Jewish Temples in the Hebrew Tanach, in the Talmud and in Byzantine and Roman writings from the Temple periods were forged,...." Oh, but of course they were!

.


QUESTION;
Who are we going to believe ?

Accepted, authentic, historic records [from differing sources],
or the self-serving narratives of moslems ?


.


QUESTION;
Please tell me, what is the origin of the name Judea ?

A name, which has been associated with an area of land inhabited by    JEWISH PEOPLE     for millennia ?


Judea ?

....Oh, i wonder if that name for the land, came from the Koran ?   /sarc off


QUESTION;
For how many centuries has the name Judea been used [to identify that area of land] ?

[/quote]

Right, Palestine never existed. But you could fly there, from New York, on a major international airline.

https://www.palestineremembered.com/images/PalestineKLMandItDoesNotExistsjpg.jpg

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 4^th, 2021 at 5:13pm:

Bertie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:25pm: The West Bank and Gaza, or Israel proper, have never been 'Palestinian Lands'. Until 1918 they were Ottoman Empire, then British administered UN mandate, then Jordan and Egypt occupied land and Israel, respectively. Then they attacked Israel in 1967 and Israel occupied them, plus the Golan Heights.  Arab aggression lost the Arabs the WB, Gaza, Golan. Ottoman census records show Palestine was widely inhabited in the late 19th and early 20th century, especially in the rural areas where agriculture was the main profession. According to Justine McCarthy (p. 26), an authority on the Ottoman Turks, Palestine's population in the early 19th century was 350,000, and in 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews.

Muslim Arabs. That's the point.  Not 'Palestinians'.


Because IF whoever lives in what the Romans renamed as Palestine IS Palestinian then all the Israeli Jews living there now are ALSO Palestinians.

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:40pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:16pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:14pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:09pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:26pm: Belgarion wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:39pm: The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.  And therefor? Yeah, same therefore to the Aborigines. I wonder if Balgarion agrees? More to the point - do you?? Well.....if Jews have a right to the State of Israel because they have been there 3000 years, then the corollary is....we better hand Australia back to the Aborigines who have been here over 60,000 years, yes?

Yes! this is the conundrum isn't it?  Seems that those who are keen on spruiking the idea that Aboriginals are the rightful owners of Australia have a totally different view when it comes to the Jews and Israel.    ::)

Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2021 at 6:40pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:16pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:14pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:09pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:26pm: Belgarion wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:39pm: The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.  And therefor? Yeah, same therefore to the Aborigines. I wonder if Balgarion agrees? More to the point - do you?? Well.....if Jews have a right to the State of Israel because they have been there 3000 years, then the corollary is....we better hand Australia back to the Aborigines who have been here over 60,000 years, yes?

Very well, let the Aboriginese pay for ALL the infrastructure built in the last 250 years to  ALL non-Abos they  want gone and you have a deal.

Recent occupations, like the West Bank, started out as strategic buffer zones, but a nation as narrow as Israel would be foolish to give them up in the face an enemy that is sworn to destroy Israel.
Jewish immigration in the 1920s was just a trickle, but in 1929 hot-head Arab Muzlums went berserk  and massacred Jews at Hebron and it has been all down hill since then.
This argument about legality is a way for Muzlums to obfuscate the issue. It was about religion, and it is still about religion, and not about nationality.
And if the Arabs finally overrun Israel and kill everyone, does anyone seriously believe that would be the end of it?

Your plane is on fire and you bail out over the Middle East. Looking down you, do you care whether you land among Arabs or Israelis?

issuevoter wrote on Jun 6^th, 2021 at 11:35am:

Recent occupations, like the West Bank, started out as strategic buffer zones, but a nation as narrow as Israel would be foolish to give them up in the face an enemy that is sworn to destroy Israel. Jewish immigration in the 1920s was just a trickle, but in 1929 hot-head Arab Muzlums went berserk  and massacred Jews at Hebron and it has been all down hill since then. This argument about legality is a way for Muzlums to obfuscate the issue. It was about religion, and it is still about religion, and not about nationality. And if the Arabs finally overrun Israel and kill everyone, does anyone seriously believe that would be the end of it? Your plane is on fire and you bail out over the Middle East. Looking down you, do you care whether you land among Arabs or Israelis?

No... It's not really about religion... That's a slogan and rallying call... Always has been.

Diaspora Jews have always maintained a cultural memory of belonging to the region and those who have lived there have rightly maintained a sense that they belong there.

Islam obfuscates a more compelling psychological cause: territorial ownership over invasion vs ancient claim to territory, persisting for 2000 years, over current reality.

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 6^th, 2021 at 12:42pm:

issuevoter wrote on Jun 6th, 2021 at 11:35am: Recent occupations, like the West Bank, started out as strategic buffer zones, but a nation as narrow as Israel would be foolish to give them up in the face an enemy that is sworn to destroy Israel. Jewish immigration in the 1920s was just a trickle, but in 1929 hot-head Arab Muzlums went berserk  and massacred Jews at Hebron and it has been all down hill since then. This argument about legality is a way for Muzlums to obfuscate the issue. It was about religion, and it is still about religion, and not about nationality. And if the Arabs finally overrun Israel and kill everyone, does anyone seriously believe that would be the end of it? Your plane is on fire and you bail out over the Middle East. Looking down you, do you care whether you land among Arabs or Israelis? No... It's not really about religion... That's a slogan and rallying call... Always has been. Diaspora Jews have always maintained a cultural memory of belonging to the region and those who have lived there have rightly maintained a sense that they belong there. Islam obfuscates a more compelling psychological cause: territorial ownership over invasion vs ancient claim to territory, persisting for 2000 years, over current reality.

Nah, but a nice try. Its religion; that was the cause of the Hebron massacre. Muzlums killing Jews, not the British, who they were happy to go along with - when it suited them.

issuevoter wrote on Jun 6^th, 2021 at 1:10pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 6th, 2021 at 12:42pm: issuevoter wrote on Jun 6th, 2021 at 11:35am: Recent occupations, like the West Bank, started out as strategic buffer zones, but a nation as narrow as Israel would be foolish to give them up in the face an enemy that is sworn to destroy Israel. Jewish immigration in the 1920s was just a trickle, but in 1929 hot-head Arab Muzlums went berserk  and massacred Jews at Hebron and it has been all down hill since then. This argument about legality is a way for Muzlums to obfuscate the issue. It was about religion, and it is still about religion, and not about nationality. And if the Arabs finally overrun Israel and kill everyone, does anyone seriously believe that would be the end of it? Your plane is on fire and you bail out over the Middle East. Looking down you, do you care whether you land among Arabs or Israelis? No... It's not really about religion... That's a slogan and rallying call... Always has been. Diaspora Jews have always maintained a cultural memory of belonging to the region and those who have lived there have rightly maintained a sense that they belong there. Islam obfuscates a more compelling psychological cause: territorial ownership over invasion vs ancient claim to territory, persisting for 2000 years, over current reality. Nah, but a nice try. Its religion; that was the cause of the Hebron massacre. Muzlums killing Jews, not the British, who they were happy to go along with - when it suited them.

No... it was one side killing the other... fighting over territorial claims...

It doesn't mean religion won't be used as a rallying cry the way ethnicity is... But it is not essential... Only useful.

Many crusader leaders, even Popes, didn't even believe in god... But it didn't stop them from the dream of capturing the 'holy land'.

Frank wrote on Jun 5^th, 2021 at 10:26pm:

Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:40pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:16pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:14pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:09pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:26pm: Belgarion wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:39pm: The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.  And therefor? Yeah, same therefore to the Aborigines. I wonder if Balgarion agrees? More to the point - do you?? Well.....if Jews have a right to the State of Israel because they have been there 3000 years, then the corollary is....we better hand Australia back to the Aborigines who have been here over 60,000 years, yes? Very well, let the Aboriginese pay for ALL the infrastructure built in the last 250 years to  ALL non-Abos they  want gone and you have a deal.

Why, given the citizens of the State of Israel had their infrastructure built on the back of ongoing massive Western aid.

Aussie wrote on Jun 6^th, 2021 at 4:23pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 5th, 2021 at 10:26pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:40pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:16pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:14pm: Frank wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 6:09pm: Aussie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:26pm: Belgarion wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 4:39pm: The Jews have lived there for at least 3000 years, probably longer, whereas the Arabs are recent blow ins.  And therefor? Yeah, same therefore to the Aborigines. I wonder if Balgarion agrees? More to the point - do you?? Well.....if Jews have a right to the State of Israel because they have been there 3000 years, then the corollary is....we better hand Australia back to the Aborigines who have been here over 60,000 years, yes? Very well, let the Aboriginese pay for ALL the infrastructure built in the last 250 years to  ALL non-Abos they  want gone and you have a deal. Why, given the citizens of the State of Israel had their infrastructure built on the back of ongoing massive Western aid.

And the billions in reparations paid to Israel from the 50's by West Germany (later Germany)...

In 2009, Israeli Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz announced that he will demand a further €450 million to €1 billion in reparations from Germany on behalf of some 30,000 Israeli forced labor survivors.

In 2010, according to the German finance ministry, Nazi Germany robbed 120 billion reichsmarks from Jews (approximately US$20 billion).

Almost all US aid to Israel is military aid. It's not for civilian purposes.

All the aid given to the Palestinians is for civilian purposes - and what have they done with it??  They built another Arab kleptocracy.

https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/306179-palestinian-kleptocracy-west-accepts-corruption-people

Frank wrote on Jun 4^th, 2021 at 5:46pm:

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 4th, 2021 at 5:13pm: Bertie wrote on Jun 3rd, 2021 at 5:25pm: The West Bank and Gaza, or Israel proper, have never been 'Palestinian Lands'. Until 1918 they were Ottoman Empire, then British administered UN mandate, then Jordan and Egypt occupied land and Israel, respectively. Then they attacked Israel in 1967 and Israel occupied them, plus the Golan Heights.  Arab aggression lost the Arabs the WB, Gaza, Golan. Ottoman census records show Palestine was widely inhabited in the late 19th and early 20th century, especially in the rural areas where agriculture was the main profession. According to Justine McCarthy (p. 26), an authority on the Ottoman Turks, Palestine's population in the early 19th century was 350,000, and in 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews. Muslim Arabs. That's the point.  Not 'Palestinians'.

They were there living on the land historically known as Palestine. It's natural they would call themselves that. Besides, why should they not have the right to self-determination?

Your Palestinian aid money at work....



Abbas pays $40,000 to family of terrorist who murdered two Israelis
PA Governor of Ramallah and Al-Bireh, Leila Ghannam, handed over the money to the family of the terrorist, Muhannad al-Halabi, during a meeting on Sunday.

Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History
by Nur Masalha

This rich and magisterial work traces Palestine’s millennia-old heritage, uncovering cultures and societies of astounding depth and complexity that stretch back to the very beginnings of recorded history. Starting with the earliest references in Egyptian and Assyrian texts, Nur Masalha explores how Palestine and its Palestinian identity have evolved over thousands of years. Drawing on a rich body of sources and the latest archaeological evidence, Masalha shows how Palestine’s multicultural past has been distorted and mythologized by Biblical lore and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In the process, Masalha reveals that the concept of Palestine, contrary to accepted belief, is not a modern invention or one constructed in opposition to Israel, but rooted firmly in ancient past.

Professor Nur Masalha is a Palestinian historian and a member of the Centre for Palestine Studies, School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London.


Classical Antiquity and the Hellenistic period from 500 BC to 135 BC is one of the periods when records of life in Palestine were numerous and well-kept. This is also a period in which the first famous historians and authors, including Herodotus and Aristotle, wrote about the country in detail, and the strategic, commercial and cultural importance of Palestine to the various Hellenistic monarchs, military commanders, traders, travellers, cartographers and scientists led to great interest, and close examination of the country and its people. The term Palestine was also extensively used in referring to the entire area connected with modern Palestine in 5th century BC Ancient Greece. The name Παλαιστίνη (Phalastin) was widely used by the most important ancient Greek historians, cartographers, writers, philosophers and scientists, including Herodotus, Aristotle and Ptolemy. The Greco-Roman-Byzantine name ‘Palestine’ is commonly found in major classical Greek texts, especially the Histories of Herodotus, written near the mid-5th century BC.

Herodotus was a contemporary of Socrates and is widely referred to as ‘the Father of History’ (Cicero, 1st century BC). He was the first historian to systematically investigate historical subjects, arranging material into a historical narrative. Herodotus’ Histories is one of the most famous historical texts on the origins of the Greco-Persian Wars, a text known to academics, historians and history students throughout the world. Histories is now considered a foundational text in the Western academy. It serves as a key record of ancient oral traditions, politics, geography and the clashes of various powers that were known in Greece, Western Asia and North Africa. When it comes to ancient Palestine and toponymic memory, modern Western Christian writing relies partly on Herodotus’ classic work.

In this classical text (written from the 450s to the 420s BC), Herodotus writes about a ‘district of Syria, called Palaistinê’ and lists place names of ancient Palestine. Herodotus himself visited Palestine in the fifth decade of the 5th century BC. He travelled extensively through ‘the part of Syria called Palestine, I myself saw’, and acquired first-hand knowledge of the country and its people (Jacobson 1999). Herodotus refers to Παλαιστίνη (Palaistinê), Syria, or simply Palaistinê, many times as an area comprising the whole region between Phoenicia and Egypt.

Herodotus’ text includes the description of key towns and ports, the road later to be called Via Maris, and many other places he had seen and recorded. He describes in detail the city of Ascalon, an ancient seaport city. At the time of Herodotus Palestine was polytheistic and he consequently describes Ascalon as having a temple for Aphrodite Urania. The cult of Aphrodite Urania was associated with body and soul and with spiritual love, beauty, fertility, procreation and pleasure and was also associated with the sea and existed in several Palestinian cities, including the ancient port city of Jaffa, often referred to in Arabic by Palestinians as ‘Arus al-Bahr’ (Bride of the Sea).

David Asheri (1925‒2000), Professor of Ancient History at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Dean of the Faculty of Humanities (1972‒1975), in A Commentary on Herodotus, Books 1‒4, writes: the ‘Syrians called Palestinians’, at the time of Herodotus were a mixture of Phoenicians, Philistines, Arabs, Egyptians, and perhaps also other peoples ... at the time of Herodotus there were few Jews in the coastal area. (Asheri et al. 2007: 402) Herodotus, who travelled widely in Palestine and Syria and beyond the coastal region, does not mention Judaea or refer to Jews. He does not mention terms such Cana’an or Canaanites or Israelites in Palestine; nor does he describe monotheism in the country. First, as archaeological evidence shows, monotheism was a much later development in Palestine and the Near East (Masalha 2007). Second, also significantly, many of the Old Testament religio-ideological dogmas evolved centuries after Herodotus.

"Part of Syria called Palestine".

Yes there were Filistines in the Levant. The Jews fought them ( Samson).


But then what /where is JUDEA (Yehuda, Jewdea)?  Nuffin' to do wiv jooos or yehuds, obviously.
Yehud is Arabic for palestinian, innit. Every Muslim schoolboy knows that...

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-IMCEe2MKtTk/YMQMEnwpERI/AAAAAAAEeGE/NB81SrXXYd4X1AduisSYm-xC2Iz6qIL7wCNcBGAsYHQ/s16000/%2521%2BJEWS%2B%25284%2529.jpg

Using the Jewish land ownership dogma, perhaps the Danes and Norwegians can claim the UK back on the basis their ancestors won it and owned it once.

... or

Maybe the Italians can claim the UK on that basis.

None of the Jews who came from Europe after WW2 had any connection with Palestine.