My thinking is a normal 4 cyl is a better design than a V6

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 16^th, 2020 at 11:13pm:

My thinking is a normal 4 cyl is a better design than a V6

A V6 is more balanced.

Why not compare a straight 6 with a V6 ?  Seems more like Apples v apples ?

While I don't really know I would suspect that the V format is the better design. Certainly comparing 6 to 6 it is.

The V format in a 6 allows for horizontal mounting with room for a Turbo or supercharger is mounted lower in the car giving an improvement in centre of gravity. Better steering, less sway, typically more power, etc in most configurations.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 16^th, 2020 at 11:13pm:

My thinking is a normal 4 cyl is a better design than a V6

Sprinty is crying for help, everybody

https://www.mysticstamp.com/pictures/stamps_default/USA-1549.jpg

Marla wrote on Sep 17^th, 2020 at 7:40am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 11:13pm: My thinking is a normal 4 cyl is a better design than a V6 Sprinty is crying for help, everybody https://www.mysticstamp.com/pictures/stamps_default/USA-1549.jpg

Nice picture Milly, whose hand are you holding?

Dnarever wrote on Sep 16^th, 2020 at 11:42pm:

Why not compare a straight 6 with a V6 ?  Seems more like Apples v apples ? While I don't really know I would suspect that the V format is the better design. Certainly comparing 6 to 6 it is. The V format in a 6 allows for horizontal mounting with room for a Turbo or supercharger is mounted lower in the car giving an improvement in centre of gravity. Better steering, less sway, typically more power, etc in most configurations.

Has a straight 6 petrol even been made in the lat 30 year?

Gordon wrote on Sep 17^th, 2020 at 7:57am:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 11:42pm: Why not compare a straight 6 with a V6 ?  Seems more like Apples v apples ? While I don't really know I would suspect that the V format is the better design. Certainly comparing 6 to 6 it is. The V format in a 6 allows for horizontal mounting with room for a Turbo or supercharger is mounted lower in the car giving an improvement in centre of gravity. Better steering, less sway, typically more power, etc in most configurations. Has a straight 6 petrol even been made in the lat 30 year?

BMW Ford and Nissan  all do straight 6.

A V engine is more compact possibly lighter.

As for 4 or 6 being better how long do you keep the throttle flat to the floor?

For towing anything a 6 is better than 4.

The flat 4 like VW and Subaru has better balance less vibration than inline 4 with lower centre of gravity. That said changing rear spark plugs on Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ can be a hassle with not much room.

There is nothing quite like a V8 :)

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 17^th, 2020 at 8:16am:

Gordon wrote on Sep 17th, 2020 at 7:57am: Dnarever wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 11:42pm: Why not compare a straight 6 with a V6 ?  Seems more like Apples v apples ? While I don't really know I would suspect that the V format is the better design. Certainly comparing 6 to 6 it is. The V format in a 6 allows for horizontal mounting with room for a Turbo or supercharger is mounted lower in the car giving an improvement in centre of gravity. Better steering, less sway, typically more power, etc in most configurations. Has a straight 6 petrol even been made in the lat 30 year? BMW Ford and Nissan  all do straight 6. A V engine is more compact possibly lighter. As for 4 or 6 being better how long do you keep the throttle flat to the floor? For towing anything a 6 is better than 4. The flat 4 like VW and Subaru has better balance less vibration than inline 4 with lower centre of gravity. That said changing rear spark plugs on Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ can be a hassle with not much room. There is nothing quite like a V8 :)

depends on the V8.

It's a bit hard to answer when the question is framed as "which one is better?"

Better for what?

A V6 (depending on bank angle and other factors) will likely have better primary balance than an i4 (which is probably one of the worst layouts for primary balance going around).

In fact, an i6 will likely be the best balanced of the lot (I wonder how balanced the old Barra 6 from Ford was?).

Some manufacturers still do them (BMW and others), but most shy away these days, as V configuration engines (including the humble V6) allow for more compact packaging (i.e. in smaller engine bays).

i4s are common, primarily because they are easy to package with a transaxle in transerse fashion, for FWD cars (which as many will note is done for packaging, rather than any inherent dynamic performance advantage).

Baronvonrort wrote on Sep 17^th, 2020 at 8:16am:

Gordon wrote on Sep 17th, 2020 at 7:57am: Dnarever wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 11:42pm: Why not compare a straight 6 with a V6 ?  Seems more like Apples v apples ? While I don't really know I would suspect that the V format is the better design. Certainly comparing 6 to 6 it is. The V format in a 6 allows for horizontal mounting with room for a Turbo or supercharger is mounted lower in the car giving an improvement in centre of gravity. Better steering, less sway, typically more power, etc in most configurations. Has a straight 6 petrol even been made in the lat 30 year? BMW Ford and Nissan  all do straight 6. A V engine is more compact possibly lighter. As for 4 or 6 being better how long do you keep the throttle flat to the floor? For towing anything a 6 is better than 4. The flat 4 like VW and Subaru has better balance less vibration than inline 4 with lower centre of gravity. That said changing rear spark plugs on Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ can be a hassle with not much room. There is nothing quite like a V8 :)

Nissan did straight 6s. They dont anymore.

Speaking of internal combustion engines ...


Whatever happened to the Sarich orbital engine?  :-?

The Sarich orbital engine has a number of fundamental unsolved problems that have kept it from becoming a usable engine. Some key components cannot be cooled and others cannot readily be lubricated, so it is very susceptible to overheating.[4] At one press conference at which Sarich presented the engine, automotive engineer Phil Irving (designer of the Vincent Motorcycle and Brabham Formula One engines) pointed out a number of technical difficulties. Some processes developed for the engine could be used for other engines, such as the Orbital Combustion Process, an air/fuel precompresser for injection.[5]

The Toyota Land Cruiser V8 turbo diesel beats them all and they sound good.

Gordon wrote on Sep 17^th, 2020 at 7:57am:

Dnarever wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 11:42pm: Why not compare a straight 6 with a V6 ?  Seems more like Apples v apples ? While I don't really know I would suspect that the V format is the better design. Certainly comparing 6 to 6 it is. The V format in a 6 allows for horizontal mounting with room for a Turbo or supercharger is mounted lower in the car giving an improvement in centre of gravity. Better steering, less sway, typically more power, etc in most configurations. Has a straight 6 petrol even been made in the lat 30 year?

They are still in production today.

Ford Australia only stopped in 2016

Dnarever wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2020 at 10:22pm:

Gordon wrote on Sep 17th, 2020 at 7:57am: Dnarever wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 11:42pm: Why not compare a straight 6 with a V6 ?  Seems more like Apples v apples ? While I don't really know I would suspect that the V format is the better design. Certainly comparing 6 to 6 it is. The V format in a 6 allows for horizontal mounting with room for a Turbo or supercharger is mounted lower in the car giving an improvement in centre of gravity. Better steering, less sway, typically more power, etc in most configurations. Has a straight 6 petrol even been made in the lat 30 year? They are still in production today. Ford Australia only stopped in 2016

Here's a couple.

https://www.toyota.com.au/supra

https://www.carsguide.com.au/bmw/z-models/z4

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2020 at 11:19am:

The Sarich orbital engine has a number of fundamental unsolved problems that have kept it from becoming a usable engine. Some key components cannot be cooled and others cannot readily be lubricated, so it is very susceptible to overheating.[4] At one press conference at which Sarich presented the engine, automotive engineer Phil Irving (designer of the Vincent Motorcycle and Brabham Formula One engines) pointed out a number of technical difficulties. Some processes developed for the engine could be used for other engines, such as the Orbital Combustion Process, an air/fuel precompresser for injection.[5]

I wondered what had happened to that.
Thanks

Bobby. wrote on Sep 16^th, 2020 at 11:18pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 16th, 2020 at 11:13pm: My thinking is a normal 4 cyl is a better design than a V6 A V6 is more balanced.

Thanks for helping me back in there Bobby.

Interesting, I thought a V6 was imbalanced. It being 2 3 cylinder motors joined together.

The I4 has perfect primary balance (That surprised me).

I had a  3 litre V6 toyota motor years ago. Beautiful motor. Very smooth, revved freely.
Used more fuel, dearer to maintain.

Now I have a 2.4 litre I4 toyota. A bit less smooth at idle, once spinning it is very smooth.
They use a resin shaft in the counterbalance that negates the secondary vibrations.
Being a higher volume per cylinder may make it a less revving motor.

Cooling wise, the I4 is better.
In terms of using a motor more in its optimum working zone, the 2.4 is much better suited.

The 3 litre V6 was 'under' utilised far too much.
It would rarely be above 2000 rpm.

The 2.4 litre is usually around the 2000 rpm or much more.
Motors are happier spinning a bit rather than labouring at all.

I'ld rather drive one of these than a 'car'.
Could even work and live in it without having to pay Land Rates. Move away from the stormy weather up and down the coastline. No real threat of capsize in the waves with the ability to withstand 50 metres conservative of water pressure to right itself back to the surface. Cars are 'old' and 'common'.

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Jasin wrote on Sep 26^th, 2020 at 1:54pm:

I'ld rather drive one of these than a 'car'. Could even work and live in it without having to pay Land Rates. Move away from the stormy weather up and down the coastline. No real threat of capsize in the waves with the ability to withstand 50 metres conservative of water pressure to right itself back to the surface. Cars are 'old' and 'common'.

It has my vote

Scotty says

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGrtbd9cdEU

Yes, against the common thinking I agree with him, the I4's seem to last longer than V6's.

The V6's are more complex and have a higher thermal capacity.