Why carry a very heavy dangerous Lithium Ion potentially explosive battery around when you can have lighter than air hydrogen energy? With quick refuel and no range anxiety.

Twiggy knows where it is at.




Fortescue advances hydrogen technology at Christmas Creek
By NS Energy Staff Writer  18 Aug 2020

Hydrogen-powered coaches will be added to Fortescue Metals Group’s (Fortescue) fleet at its Christmas Creek operations in the Pilbara in a demonstration of the Company’s drive towards zero-emissions mobility.

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Fortescue to use hydrogen fuel cell-powered fleet in Australia. (Credit: Fortescue Metals Group Limited.)

The A$32 million ($23 million) renewable hydrogen mobility project – the first for an Australian mining operation – will see the deployment of 10 full-sized hydrogen coaches, custom built by HYZON Motors, to replace the existing fleet of diesel coaches at Christmas Creek from mid-2021. It will be supported by the installation of a refuelling station, which will harness renewable electricity from the Chichester Solar Gas Hybrid Project to generate renewable hydrogen onsite.

Fortescue Deputy Chief Executive Officer Julie Shuttleworth said, “This project represents a first step towards decarbonising our mobile fleet, which is an important part of our goal to achieve net zero operational emissions by 2040.

“Fortescue’s history of developing and adopting innovation and technology has been key to achieving our industry-leading cost position and we are applying this technology-first strategy to our hydrogen initiatives to ensure we remain at the forefront of this emerging industry.

“As a significant energy consumer, we are actively pursuing opportunities to reduce our carbon footprint and cost base and we expect hydrogen to play a key role. Fortescue’s mobile fleet represents around 400 to 450 million litres of diesel consumption per year and presents a significant opportunity for hydrogen to be used as a replacement fuel source to accelerate emissions reduction and diversify our energy mix,” Ms Shuttleworth said.

HYZON Motors Co-Founder Craig Knight said, “After almost 20 years working with fuel cell technology, it is hugely rewarding to see the genuine enthusiasm for decarbonisation from one of the leading miners of the world.

“We can see first-hand how Fortescue has forged and sustained their rightful place through constant innovation, and we see hydrogen as another example of their willingness to lead through action,” Mr Knight said.

Fortescue has received A$2 million ($1.44 million) in funding through the Western Australian Government’s Renewable Hydrogen Fund to support the development of this project.

https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/news/fortescue-advances-hydrogen-technology-at-christmas-creek/

Solar powered buses. Great progress.

Canberra is going hydrogen. Canberra has 20 hydrogen cars ready to go but the Virus is slowing down the installation of the hydrogen filling station.



ACT government’s 20-vehicle hydrogen fleet grounded due to Covid difficulties
AUGUST 6, 20206 COMMENTS2 MINUTE READMICHAEL MAZENGARB

https://thedriven.io/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Hyundai_Nexo_fleet_02_800x600.jpg
the ACT government has purchased 20 Hyundai Nexo FCEVs.


The ACT government’s new fleet of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles have reached Australian shores, but their deployment has been hampered as Covid-19 has prevented the installation of a crucial piece of equipment – Australia’s first public hydrogen refuelling station.

ACT climate change and sustainability minister Shane Rattenbury told a Smart Energy Council webinar on Wednesday that the fleet of 20 Hyundai hydrogen fuel cell vehicles had arrived in Australia, but had faced delays in deployment due to difficulties in being the right expertise into Canberra to get the refuelling infrastructure up and running.

“The ACT government has committed to bringing in 20 hydrogen vehicles into our fleet in partnership with Hyundai and Neoen and as part of one of our large scale reverse auction,” Rattenbury said.

“Unfortunately, due to Covid, we’ve had some real difficulties getting that going. The vehicles are here in Australia. But the technology for the fueling station has been held up.”



The ACT government is set to use 20 of Hyundai’s Nexo fuel cell models, which has a 95kW fuel cell stack that supplies energy to its 40kW battery, delivering 120kW of power to the motor a range of more than 800 kilometres.

The major hurdle for the deployment of the hydrogen fuel cell vehicle fleet has been the lack of local expertise on refuelling infrastructure, with the ACT currently unable to bring in the right personnel to support the installation of a refuelling rig.

“We were due to be shipping in some US expertise to help with the installation of the refuelling station, but with Covid and the border closures, that’s been problematic,” Rattenbury said.

“We are now meant to be bringing in some expertise from Victoria, and we know what’s happening in Victoria. So we are behind schedule on that one. We’re pretty frustrated about that. But it’s something that’s ended up being beyond our control.”

“But it’s a lock-in. We are going to do it. The vehicles are sitting up with Hyundai in Sydney and so as soon as we can get the refuelling station up and running those vehicles will come into being part of the ACT government fleet.” Rattenbury added.

The refuelling station is set to be located in the industrial suburb of Fyshwick in Canberra’s south, and will become the first publicly available hydrogen refuelling station in Australia.

The ACT government secured a commitment from renewable energy developer Neoen to support the rollout of the hydrogen vehicle fleet as part of the ACT’s commitment to purchase electricity from the Hornsdale wind farm.

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Neoen’s Hornsdale wind farm is contributing to the ACT’s supply of 100 per cent renewable electricity, having secured a contract to supply the territory through its reverse auction process. As part of the deal, Neoen is required to reinvest a portion of the funds paid by the ACT into hydrogen projects, including green hydrogen production and vehicle refuelling infrastructure.

Neoen has already kick-started the development of another 1.25MW electrolyser facility in South Australia, which joins a number of leading projects the company has undertaken in the state, including the Hornsdale wind farm and the Hornsdale big battery.

https://thedriven.io/2020/08/06/act-governments-20-vehicle-hydrogen-fleet-grounded-due-to-covid-difficulties/

Australia’s first public hydrogen refuelling station to be piloted in ACT
MAY 8, 2019 BRIDIE SCHMIDT


20 Nexos are on order by the ACT government and will be used to trial the new hydrogen charging station. Source: Hyundai


The first public hydrogen refuelling station for fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEV) has been announced today in Canberra, as part of the ACT governments commitment to hydrogen technologies made in the tenders for its 100 per cent renewables program.

The hydrogen fuelling station will at first be piloted by 20 Hyundai Nexo FCEVs that are being purchased by the ACT goverment as part of its commitment to a zero emissions future.

The Nexo order is Australia’s largest contract of its kind and is worth more than $A1 million, but it presents a particular problem: how to fuel the hydrogen-fuelled vehicles.

Fuel cell vehicles may present an attractive alternative to combustion vehicles for some who are married to the idea of charging on the go within only a few minutes, much like petrol and diesel.



But while charging stations for battery electric vehicles are gradually becoming more commonplace, the infrastructure for FCEVs is currently not as available, and is also considerably more expensive to install than EV chargers (BEVs can of course also be charged at home).

The new hydrogen charging station, will be installed under a partnership between ActewAGL and French renewable energy company Neoen, which won a significant share of the ACT’s renewable energy target through its three wind farms at Hornsdale in South Australia.

Neoen in 2016 won the last tender held by the ACT government and as part of that deal committed to $55 million in a partnership with Siemens and Hyundai to establish a 1.25MW hydrogen electrolyser, which converts electricity to hydrogen, and the re-fuelling station.

That station will be located at ActewAGL’s compressed natural gas station in Mildura St, Fyshwick this December, and will be the first publicly available site in Australia.

There, it will be used to recharge the ACT’s 20 Hyundai Nexos, the South Korean carmaker’s second generation FCEV that has an estimated driving range of 800km and has superceded its predecessor the Hyundai ix35 FCEV.

The Nexo has a a 95kW fuel cell stack that supplies energy to its 40kW battery, emitting only water from the tailpipe and delivering 120kW of power to the motor and 394Nm of torque.

The only other FCEV currently available on the Australian market is the Toyota Mirai, which has 550km of range and is currently being trialled in a number of short-loan leases.

Compared to battery electric vehicles which use a number of rare earth materials in their battery cells, hydrogen is considered by some to be a more credible answer to zero emissions transport because of the incredible abundance of hydrogen (it is the universe’s most abundant element).

https://thedriven.io/2019/05/08/australias-first-public-hydrogen-refuelling-station-to-be-piloted-in-act/

So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use.

Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem.

Man, this has really owned the greenies!

Robot wrote on Aug 27^th, 2020 at 7:38pm:

So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use. Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem. Man, this has really owned the greenies!

I don't understand why kinda disconnected states like WA and SA power companies complain about too much power. They should be more connected but besides the point. Keep enough baseload running and pour excess into storage/money, be it hydrogen, cryptocurrency, or other things that will return. They need to diversify. Other things can be ramped up or down as needed to buffer baseload.

Setanta wrote on Aug 27^th, 2020 at 8:00pm:

I don't understand why kinda disconnected states like WA and SA power companies complain about too much power. They should be more connected but besides the point. Keep enough baseload running and pour excess into storage/money, be it hydrogen, cryptocurrency, or other things that will return. They need to diversify. Other things can be ramped up or down as needed to buffer baseload.

Yes, lets keep pretending "base load" generators are relevant (SA doesn't have a single "base load" plant left to "keep enough" of) and let's gather magic internet money instead of decarbonising the power supply. Big brain ideas.

SA is totally dependent on the link to the Victorian brown coal fields electricity generators for the many times the sun and wind fails.

Industry cannot be supplied with variable intermittent power.

Renewable stuff is basically useless without a steady reliable primary main power supply either hydro or coal or gas.

But if the useless peaks of wind and solar could be stored in a very large energy reservoir then renewable stuff starts to become useful.

Simple battery storage is basically useless because it is too small holding only minutes of energy. Plus it has the nasty habit of exploding if a fault develops.

Enter HYDROGEN ENERGY STORAGE where storage size is only limited by the size of the huge storage tanks which can hold days of energy.

Plus Japan and South Korea is seeking to import hydrogen from Australia which is exported as ammonia.

Hydrogen Energy is the future sweeping the silly little dangerous range anxiety electric toy cars into the junk yards.

The big incentive to get hydrogen going is to replace big polluting diesel trucks hauling containers from the wharves in the cities with clean hydrogen trucks. Also large buses are a prime target.

Hydrogen is quick refuel with NO range anxiety. A direct replacement for diesel and petrol and LNG and LPG.

Wouldn't you kick yourself if you had wasted your money on an already obsolete dangerous range anxiety electric inconvenience that take hours to recharge after queuing for another 3 hours!!

You can almost hear the Electric Fan Boys and Girls sneer and snarl!!!!




Hyundai partners with gas giants for hydrogen cars in Australia
By Nick Toscano August 10, 2020 — 12.00am

Gas companies will partner with Hyundai to supply refuelling infrastructure for hydrogen-powered cars in Australia next year in a bid to accelerate the take-up of the zero-emissions fuel technology.

Energy infrastructure giant Jemena and Wesfarmers-owned Coregas have been in talks with carmaker Hyundai to supply "green hydrogen" – generated from wind and energy power – for a re-filling station in Sydney's Macquarie Park.

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The Hyundai Nexo is the first hydrogen-fuelled vehicle to be certified by the Australian government for use on the road.

There is little doubt among the world's largest energy companies and automakers that fossil fuel-guzzling cars will be increasingly shunned by consumers and even banned in some jurisdictions.

Fuel-cell vehicles that use hydrogen – and emit only water and heat – have been overshadowed by the vastly greater and ever-increasing mainstream success of electric battery-powered cars like Teslas. Hydrogen vehicles account for less than 0.1 per cent of vehicles produced each year.

Jemena chief executive Frank Tudor said the lack of critical refuelling infrastructure was regularly cited as a "handbrake to hydrogen vehicle sales".

"Our agreement with Hyundai and Coregas releases some of that pressure and is an opportunity to demonstrate that renewably generated hydrogen gas can be made directly available to the vehicle and transport sectors," Mr Tudor said.

Although the fuel-cell vehicles are yet to reach large-scale production, supporters of the technology say hydrogen cars boast advantages over electric cars, including longer range and quicker refuelling times, and believe they could gain ground as more refuelling infrastructure becomes available. China, Japan and South Korea have been setting ambitious targets to put millions of hydrogen-powered vehicles on their roads by the end of the next decade, investing heavily in refuelling stations.

Hyundai's Macquarie Park facility is the country's only permanent refuelling station. Construction projects in Brisbane, Melbourne and the ACT have been delayed due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Under the memorandum of understanding between the Australian gas companies and Hyundai, the hydrogen will be produced and delivered from Jemena's $15 million Western Sydney Green Gas project, which has been 50 per cent funded by the Australian Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA).

"Hydrogen is going to play a fairly significant role in industrial-heating areas, power generation, transportation," Mr Tudor said. "It's going to be one of the fuels that help countries decarbonise."

Hydrogen is touted as a growth industry in the energy sector, as an alternative fuel source and for its ability to store the energy generated by renewable sources such as wind and solar. It is also being explored as a top diversification strategy for traditional oil and gas producers determined to stay relevant in a decarbonised future.

Hyundai's Nexo SUV is the first fuel-cell vehicle certified for use on Australia's roads. A fleet of 20 of the cars has been leased by the ACT government and is expected to be deployed later this year.

Energy Networks Australia, representing power and gas infrastructure companies, said hydrogen would play a significant role in decarbonising the energy system. "Australia is punching above its weight on hydrogen research and development," chief executive Andrew Dillon said.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/hyundai-partners-with-gas-giants-for-hydrogen-cars-in-australia-20200806-p55jdo.html

Now the big target that hydrogen has in its sights - big polluting diesel trucks.

When should you buy hydrogen shares and sell electric car shares ?



Hydrogen trucks for Australia. US-based Horizon says US and European hydrogen trucks could be here from early 2021
By Neil Dowling on 29th June 2020

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HYDROGEN fuel-cell trucks are 10 months away from launch in Australia as US-based Hyzon Motors begins its export drive of zero-emission heavy-duty vehicles based on existing US and European truck chassis including Western Star and DAF.

Hyzon, the vehicle powertrain arm of Singapore’s fuel-cell manufacturer Horizon Fuel Cell Technologies, said the roll out of trucks and then buses seemed to be contrary to a lack of hydrogen fuel infrastructure in Australia but the company intends to get its foot in the door by starting with back-to-base fuelling.

Horizon’s CEO, Australian Craig Knight, told GoAutoNews Premium that he believed the timing was right for hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles to become visible in Australia and that the zero emission systems were ideal for heavy-duty vehicles operating as back-to-base fleets.

Ideally, the fuel would be sourced from a hydrogen producer at the vehicle fleet operator’s base.

He said Horizon saw itself as a provider of hydrogen vehicles and not a provider of the infrastructure.

“We see the most attractive use for hydrogen as diesel displacement. Making hydrogen can go to making electricity, for example, but we see the future (of the gas) as a sustainable, predictable fuel for trucking because hydrogen replacing diesel in trucks is very attractive once you have the technology right.”

Mr Knight said hydrogen was now available for less than $A8 a kilogram.

“That’s getting close to vehicle operating parity with diesel,” he said.

“If you can get the price down to between $A5 and $A6 a kilogram – which is where most of the green hydrogen targets in Australia are hoped to be within a few years – then you could run a hydrogen fuel cell truck for less than diesel.”

One kilogram of hydrogen is equivalent to five or six litres of diesel in terms of operational efficiency. This increases in conditions such as stop-start use for city buses.

Read on here

https://premium.goauto.com.au/hydrogen-trucks-for-australia/

Hydrogen is such a low energy fuel add some carbon atoms and up its power. It is harder to contain in its pure state, it can even pass thru steel at high pressure. Add even more carbon atoms and you can get it to a liquid state at ambient temperature and increase its energy!  ;D

juliar wrote on Aug 28^th, 2020 at 2:12am:

Renewable stuff is basically useless without a steady reliable primary main power supply either hydro or coal or gas.

LOL, coal and gas are dirty old technology. Wind and solar can be shored up with synfuels or hydrogen - made using solar and wind power - that don't add any more carbon into the system. None of the limitations of batteries, none of the downsides of fossil fuels, none of the politics of nuclear.

You've got a tough job ahead of you:

On one hand, you want to advocate for hydrogen power because you have a hate boner for Teslas.

On the other hand, you have to downplay the fact that hydrogen is renewable energy, because that's something the greenies want, and you can't be agreeing with those latte-sipping Bolsheviks!

Hydrogen has the lowest BTUs if your intention is to use it as a fuel for internal combustion engines. The biggest advantage is that clean water vapor comes out the exhaust. Its best use would be for short trips or in a confined space like a warehouse. I don't see it as being a convenient long range energy source.

Hydrogen is the future, EV is the stepping stone to get us there.

Some are ideologically blind to the realities that we face.

I hope that the Hydrogen as a fuel source comes sooner than later.

You really shouldn't be comparing Hydrogen to EV, but instead to traditional gasoline.

More:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU-LDZ0HTGc

https://i.postimg.cc/mkh9BPVm/kangaroo-1.gif
Heavens! What on earth was that that just thumped past??



The electric FANS hang on till the bitter end. Who cares if hydrogen is called renewable ?  The old chestnut about hydrogen leaking thru metal is usually brought up but hydrogen storage tanks are NOT metal but a special fibrous mix developed by Toyota. And gas pipes are lined with a special coating. Also the energy density MUST be low because it is lighter than air!!!

What is required is a replacement fuel for cars, big trucks, trains, ships, planes, huge industrial machines, very huge mining machines, huge agricultural machines.

So a direct replacement for petrol, diesel, LNG, and LPG is required which is quick refuel and has the same or longer range.

The electric FANS hold little batteries up as the answer to everything.

But no battery can power a big 600HP truck hauling about 40 tonnes as such a fantasy battery would be huge and very heavy and would be a big hazard as it can explode if a fault develops.

But hydrogen can easily fulfill all these requirements and is being increasingly used for heavy equipment.

Also hydrogen is mixed with domestic gas already.

So get used to it, a hydrogen infrastructure will gradually replace the existing petrol and diesel and LNG and LPG infrastructure and clean hydrogen vehicles which will not pollute our cities will be as common as the petrol and diesel and LNG and LPG vehicles today.

A big plus for hydrogen is that it can readily be used as an energy store for the erratic unstable power occasionally produced by wind and solar.

And Japan and South Korea are already asking Australia to generate hydrogen and export it as ammonia to them. What an export earner!!!!

It must be annoying for the electric fans that they have wasted their money on a dead end dud electric inconvenience that is already obsolete just like back in the 1800's.

Visit Canberra and see the Public Servants whizzing by in their hydrogen powered Hyundai cars without a whisper of pollution.

The REAL impetus for hydrogen is the reduction of pollution in cites from particularly diesel trucks and also petrol cars.

Of course the Electric FANS rattle on about the non-existent Greenies' Global Warming HOAX and their Climate Change SCAM.


Keep an eye out for buying hydrogen shares as they will skyrocket!!!

It must be confusing for all those misled Greenies kneeling before their effigy of Grater Thunderbung and chanting their Climate Change SCAM mantras and looking out the window and wondering what ever happened to their Global Warming HOAX.

With the drop in CO₂ as hydrogen takes over won't the greening of the deserts stop ? and food crops stop growing fast ?




Rapid fall to parity predicted for Australian renewable hydrogen costs
Joshua S Hill28 August 2020

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Work on a Siemens electrolyser. Image by Siemens

Significant and continued cost reductions to solar PV and wind technologies, as well as cost reductions to electrolysers, will mean that the cost of green hydrogen in Australia could reach $A3/kg “in the near future” and that a “stretch goal” of $A2/kg will likely come into reach, “possibly rapidly”, according to a new paper.

The new paper was published on Friday by researchers from the Crawford School of Public Policy’s Centre for Climate & Energy Policy at the Australian National University.

The authors of the paper sought to investigate whether the production of green hydrogen – which is hydrogen created using electricity from renewable energy sources – could be accomplished at a cost “that makes it attractive compared to hydrogen produced from fossil fuels.”

The main cost factors creating a barrier to affordable green hydrogen are the cost of the electricity  and the cost of electrolysers, together with capacity utilisation rates.

However, as the authors point out, the cost of renewable electricity from technologies such as solar PV and wind have fallen dramatically over the last few years and are expected to fall even further in the years ahead.

“In many parts of the world, wind and solar power is already the cheapest form of energy for any new built generating capacity. Its average cost is cheaper than electricity from natural gas in many places including Australia and is often cheaper than wholesale prices on the grid,” the report says.

As such, production of renewable hydrogen is becoming more competitive with that produced by fossil fuel electricity, especially when you take into consideration fossil fuel-generated hydrogen’s “highly emissions-intensive” nature. Even when coupled with carbon capture and storage, the authors point out that fossil fuel-generated hydrogen still suffers from “significant remaining carbon dioxide emissions.”

Basing their analysis heavily in figures from the International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA), the authors point out that “Typical up-front capital costs for solar PV installations fell by 79% from 2010 to 2019 and by 24% for onshore wind generators.”

Further, “The levelised cost of electricity (LCOE) for large scale solar PV installations in 2020 is between A$41-60/MWh in Australia according to CSIRO estimates … and A$49-64/MWh internationally according to the IRENA auction database.”

With renewable electricity costs falling dramatically, the next focus is the efficiency and capital cost of electrolysers – the device which splits water into hydrogen and oxygen using electrical energy.

As with renewable electricity, though to a much lesser degree, capital costs of electrolysers have also seen some reduction in recent years, and the authors believe that electrolyser manufacturing costs could fall “substantially as demand for electrolysers increases.”

The authors show that for every $A10/MWh decrease in electricity costs there is an attendant decrease in hydrogen production costs of $A0.47/kg. So, taking into account a series of other factors, the 2020 estimates for green hydrogen production from solar (capacity factor 30%) ranged from $A3.12/kg to $A3.82/kg.

Looking forward, however, and based on a mean cost of solar PV in 2030 of $A33/MWh, hydrogen costs could fall to range from $A2.25/kg to $A2.94/kg. Lower range projections for the cost of solar PV of around $A25/MWh yielded hydrogen costs in the range of $1.89/kg to $A2.56/kg.

Things get even better when onshore wind generation is involved, with its higher capacity factor of 45%. Hydrogen production costs ranged from $A3.10/kg to $A3.60/kg in 2020 and $A2.70/kg to $A3.20/kg in 2030 – though 2030 figures do not expect a dramatic mean cost of wind as they do solar. With lower range projections for wind electricity by 2030 of $A40/MWh (as compared to around $A50/MWh), green hydrogen production costs could fall to $A2.40/kg to $A2.90/kg.

These figures compare well with existing cost predictions and estimates, especially those laid out in CSIRO’s National Hydrogen Roadmap published back in 2018. These later figures assume a lower capital cost for electrolysers as compared to CSIRO’s 2018 projections.

All told, applying all analyses, the authors conclude that hydrogen production cost estimates for 2030 are between $A1.89/kg to $A3.71/kg.

[color=#0000ff]The authors conclude by explaining that “the production of green hydrogen at costs of below A$3/kg is likely to be possible, and a reduction of production costs over the next decade to approach A$2/kg is plausible.” Moreover, “Australia is well placed to achieve low-cost green hydrogen production due to its low-cost renewable energy supply and the potential to achieve large economies of scale.”

https://reneweconomy.com.au/rapid-fall-to-parity-predicted-for-australian-renewable-hydrogen-costs-11266/

Hydrogen added to domestic gas project set to fly in Western Sydney.

With remote solar and wind farms one wonders where the water will come from for the hydrogen electrolysers.

Will water vapor from all the hydrogen vehicles replace CO₂ and block heat entering and leaving earth as water vapor is much more effective at this than CO₂ ?



Western Sydney green hydrogen plant gets accelerated planning tick
Michael Mazengarb 12 August 2020

https://reneweconomy.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/hydrogen-plant.jpg
Endless hydogen energy clean as the driven snow.

New South Wales will soon see construction start on its first renewable hydrogen production facility, with the Western Sydney Green Gas project being granted an accelerated planning approval by the NSW government.

The green hydrogen facility, to be built at a Jemena facility in the western Sydney suburb of Horsley Park, enjoyed a fast-tracked planning approval process being undertaken by the NSW government under the Planning System Acceleration Program, to speed up approval times and boost the NSW economy during the Covid-19 pandemic.

“The $18 million Western Sydney Green Gas Project will be a prototype for future green hydrogen projects,” NSW planning and public spaces minister Rob Stokes said.

“Hydrogen can revolutionise the fuel and gas industry, creating opportunities for low emissions technologies and jobs.”

The $18 million Western Sydney Green Gas project is being developed with the support of the Australian Renewable Energy Agency, which has provided a $7.5 million grant to help finance the project. The plant will install an electrolyser, which will use a supply of wind and solar power to convert water into renewable hydrogen.

The project will see Jemena install a 500 kilowatt electrolyser purchased from Belgium-Canadian firm Hydrogenics, which will produce enough zero emissions hydrogen to supply the equivalent of around 250 Sydney homes with gas.


Jemena will look to trial the blending of a small amount of hydrogen into the mains gas network, which would provide some level of replacement of fossil gas with a zero emissions alternative, as well as looking to supply hydrogen to other use cases, including hydrogen fuelled transport.

Jemena welcomed the expedited planning approval, and expects to be able to begin injecting hydrogen into the mains gas network in early 2021.

“We welcome today’s announcement as a crucial next step towards bringing renewable hydrogen gas to the New South Wales gas network. Today’s decision means we are now able to confirm that renewable hydrogen gas will be injected into the New South Wales gas network early next year. Through the remainder of 2020, we will continue construction efforts in Western Sydney, including the installation of New South Wales’ first electrolyser,” Jemena spokesperson Michael Pintabona told RenewEconomy.

“At this challenging time, government support for projects like this is pivotal and will help bring new jobs and economic activity to Western Sydney.”


The blending of around 10 per cent hydrogen into mains gas networks is generally possible, without the need to significantly modify household appliances like stoves and hot water systems, but planning documents lodged by Jemena suggest the company will aim for around 2 per cent hydrogen blending as part of the pilot project.

Jemena says that the pilot project is intended to provide early insights into the possible role hydrogen could play in a future energy system, with a wider rollout to be considered at the end of the five year trial.

“This will help to position NSW as a nation-leader in green gas supply and storage projects as we transition to a low carbon gas network,” NSW energy minister Matt Kean said.

“It will also help us reach our ambitious aspiration of injecting 10 per cent hydrogen into our gas network by 2030.”

The Western Sydney Green Gas project, which is being developed by Jemena, recently secured a customer for its renewable hydrogen production, signing a deal to supply Hyundai’s flagship store in Sydney’s North, which will host Australia’s first permanent hydrogen refuelling facility.

“We are demonstrating that electrolysers not only produce safe and green hydrogen gas to blend with natural gas for home appliances, but that they also enable hydrogen to be made available for zero-emission transportation,” Jemena’s managing director, Frank Tudor, said on Monday.

Hyundai is looking to offer its hydrogen fuelled NEXO model into the Australian market, which boasts a range of up to 610 kilometres on a tank of hydrogen, and has already secured an order of 20 vehicles from the ACT government.

Construction of the Western Sydney Green Gas project is expected to commence within the next three months and is due to be completed in early 2021.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/western-sydney-green-hydrogen-plant-gets-accelerated-planning-tick-52716/

When will hydrogen shares take off ?

Lithium shares look to take a hit as vehicles switch away from already obsolete electric inconveniences.

Now mini hydrogen storage to replace potentially explosive batteries in the home with much larger energy storage - days instead of a couple of hours.




Australian-led venture takes next step towards residential solar hydrogen storage system
Michael Mazengarb 13 July 2020

https://reneweconomy.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/hydrogen-UNSW-LAVO-Fuel-cell-in-laboratory-optimised.jpg
A hydrogen fuel cell.

An Australian-led venture to develop one of the world’s first residential solar-based hydrogen energy storage systems is set to get a boost towards its commercialisation through an engineering support deal struck with GHD.

Global engineering giant GHD will partner with researchers from the University of New South Wales, and investment backers Providence Asset Group, to accelerate the development of the LAVO Hydrogen Storage Technology invented at the university.

“The timing is right for hydrogen as the cost of renewables has fallen quicker than predicted and there is unprecedented political support for this emerging industry,” CEO of Providence Asset Group Henry Sun said.

The LAVO system, named for one of the early pioneers of chemistry, French scientist Antoine Lavoisier, who is credited for the discovery and naming of hydrogen in 1783, is being developed as a solution for using hydrogen for residential energy storage, capturing surplus energy produced by rooftop solar systems and allowing it to be used as needed.

The LAVO system has the potential to store the equivalent of 60kWh of surplus energy, representing a much larger amount of energy storage than is currently available in most residential battery storage systems and would be enough to power the average household for around three days.

Hydrogen has emerged as a high potential alternative for zero-emissions energy storage, with a large range of potential uses, including within the electricity system, as well as for transport and industrial fuels.

Read on and discard the disappointment of obsolete range anxiety electric vehicles.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/australian-led-venture-takes-next-step-towards-residential-solar-hydrogen-storage-system-46685/

I see you are enthusiastic about the process, I just hope to see if it is really practical or just political. We have ten percent alcohol added to our gasoline but when you do the math it costs more from field to pump than not adding it to begin with.

We use a system of high pressure steam stripping to separate the hydrogen from natural gas. Another newer system uses cryonics to liquefy everything else in a sour gas stream until only the hydrogen remains since it has the lowest condensation point.

The worst point about using hydrogen for internal combustion engines is low energy by volume, the best points are quick to refuel and all that it exhausts is water vapor.

You can't compare Hydrogen to EV in terms of efficiency, but that's not the market.

Hydrogen and EV will need to coexist side by side as each has its strengths and weaknesses.

Hydrogen vs traditional petroleum-derived fuels, that's where the difference is.  For each gallon of petrol, you get about 15% efficiency if you factor in everything from the extraction from the earth, transportation, evaporation etc.

Hydrogen sits in at about 30%, including its production and the above etc.

Yes, there are heaps of assumptions made in the calculations, but it's definitely a candidate to replace traditional fuels.

So Hydrogen already doubles efficiency without even going into combustion advantages etc or even touching on the emissions differences.

But EV from an efficiency point of view sits at around 75%.

This is all in terms of energy in vs energy out.  If you have to burn coal to create the electricity to charge the battery or extract the hydrogen or power the drilling etc, it's not "clean", but the above assumes the same electricity production and doesn't factor in the source.

In a perfect world, we'd have clean electricity production and a mix of EV for short/city driving and Hydrogen for longer range, freight etc.

But I'm sure this will trigger some...

Regenerative braking for semis should at least boost their fuel efficiency.

Imagine if we farted out hydrogen. How much fun would lighting a fart be.

Nukes baby. Even the Dems in USA are putting nukes back on the table.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertbryce/2020/08/23/after-48-years-democrats-endorse-nuclear-energy-in-platform/#64fa6d715829

If it becomes practical be assured your government will tax it to the point of not being economical. Emergency services are not going to be happy reporting to vehicle accidents due to the hazard cause by a hydrogen fire. The flame is invisible in daylight, EMT could be seriously burned before they even know they are in danger!

Robot wrote on Aug 27^th, 2020 at 7:38pm:

So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use. Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem. Man, this has really owned the greenies!

Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen :D LOL

Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar :D LOL

Totally brain dead liberals as usual.

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2020 at 12:22pm:

Robot wrote on Aug 27th, 2020 at 7:38pm: So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use. Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem. Man, this has really owned the greenies! Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen :D LOL Totally brain dead liberals as usual. Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar :D LOL

Apologise to ScoMo.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/hydrogen-to-follow-gas-expansion-in-morrison-bid-for-net-zero-emissions-20200920-p55xfu.html

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2020 at 12:22pm:

Robot wrote on Aug 27th, 2020 at 7:38pm: So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use. Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem. Man, this has really owned the greenies! Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen :D LOL Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar :D LOL Totally brain dead liberals as usual.

Hydrogen isn't a replacement for EV.

It's a replacement for traditional petroleum.

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2020 at 12:33pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:22pm: Robot wrote on Aug 27th, 2020 at 7:38pm: So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use. Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem. Man, this has really owned the greenies! Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen :D LOL Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar :D LOL Totally brain dead liberals as usual. Hydrogen isn't a replacement for EV. It's a replacement for traditional petroleum.

It's a replacement for coal and batteries. Hydrogen can be made by any source then used to create leccy. Apparently the tech to go from solar to hydrogen to leccy has just passed an efficiency milestone to make it viable.

Gordon wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2020 at 12:25pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:22pm: Robot wrote on Aug 27th, 2020 at 7:38pm: So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use. Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem. Man, this has really owned the greenies! Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen :D LOL Totally brain dead liberals as usual. Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar :D LOL Apologise to ScoMo. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/hydrogen-to-follow-gas-expansion-in-morrison-bid-for-net-zero-emissions-20200920-p55xfu.html

for what ??

Gordon wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2020 at 12:36pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:33pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:22pm: Robot wrote on Aug 27th, 2020 at 7:38pm: So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use. Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem. Man, this has really owned the greenies! Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen :D LOL Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar :D LOL Totally brain dead liberals as usual. Hydrogen isn't a replacement for EV. It's a replacement for traditional petroleum. It's a replacement for coal and batteries. Hydrogen can be made by any source then used to create leccy. Apparently the tech to go from solar to hydrogen to leccy has just passed an efficiency milestone to make it viable.

That's totally brain dead !!

Why would i want to pay scumos cronies for their hydrogen rubbish when I can charge up a battery EV directly from rooftop solar ?? Doesn't make any sense to pay for others solar PV to generate hydrogen :D LOL

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2020 at 12:53pm:

Gordon wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:36pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:33pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:22pm: Robot wrote on Aug 27th, 2020 at 7:38pm: So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use. Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem. Man, this has really owned the greenies! Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen :D LOL Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar :D LOL Totally brain dead liberals as usual. Hydrogen isn't a replacement for EV. It's a replacement for traditional petroleum. It's a replacement for coal and batteries. Hydrogen can be made by any source then used to create leccy. Apparently the tech to go from solar to hydrogen to leccy has just passed an efficiency milestone to make it viable. That's totally brain dead !! Why would i want to pay scumos cronies for their hydrogen rubbish when I can charge up a battery EV directly from rooftop solar ?? Doesn't make any sense to pay for others solar PV to generate hydrogen :D LOL

You're as stupid as the day is long.

Nobody cares about you and the solar panels you've never own because you're too poor to own house with a roof to put them on and you'll never be able to afford an electric car  ;D ;D ;D

Hydrogen offsets/stores renewable energy and it's being pushed by Australia's Chief Scientist. Are you more qualified than he?

Gordon wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2020 at 1:00pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:53pm: Gordon wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:36pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:33pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:22pm: Robot wrote on Aug 27th, 2020 at 7:38pm: So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use. Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem. Man, this has really owned the greenies! Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen :D LOL Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar :D LOL Totally brain dead liberals as usual. Hydrogen isn't a replacement for EV. It's a replacement for traditional petroleum. It's a replacement for coal and batteries. Hydrogen can be made by any source then used to create leccy. Apparently the tech to go from solar to hydrogen to leccy has just passed an efficiency milestone to make it viable. That's totally brain dead !! Why would i want to pay scumos cronies for their hydrogen rubbish when I can charge up a battery EV directly from rooftop solar ?? Doesn't make any sense to pay for others solar PV to generate hydrogen :D LOL You're as stupid as the day is long. Nobody cares about you and the solar panels you've never own because you're too poor to own house with a roof to put them on and you'll never be able to afford an electric car  ;D ;D ;D Hydrogen offsets/stores renewable energy and it's being pushed by Australia's Chief Scientist. Are you more qualified than he?

So just because you want to take it up the arse at the hydrogen fool bowser doesn't mean everyone else does. You'd have to be totally stupid wouldn't you just so some liberal flunky gets to enjoy being a CEO of H2 Fools Incorporated :D LOL

Funny how you lot whinge about having to pay $$$ for a BEV but no complaints having to pay $$$ for a hydrogen electric vehicle. That's how you brain dead libbos really think. Bow down to the hydrogen fool CEO's and their hare brained hydrogen fool businesses :D LOL

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2020 at 12:53pm:

Gordon wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:36pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:33pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:22pm: Robot wrote on Aug 27th, 2020 at 7:38pm: So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use. Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem. Man, this has really owned the greenies! Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen :D LOL Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar :D LOL Totally brain dead liberals as usual. Hydrogen isn't a replacement for EV. It's a replacement for traditional petroleum. It's a replacement for coal and batteries. Hydrogen can be made by any source then used to create leccy. Apparently the tech to go from solar to hydrogen to leccy has just passed an efficiency milestone to make it viable. That's totally brain dead !! Why would i want to pay scumos cronies for their hydrogen rubbish when I can charge up a battery EV directly from rooftop solar ?? Doesn't make any sense to pay for others solar PV to generate hydrogen :D LOL

Let's be clear, EVs can't do what Petrol cars can now.  We know this.

But, EV is still more efficient in terms of energy required to power, than HFC.

So HFC will be the future for anything, not just automotive, where the battery limitations are involved.  So freight transportation, long drives etc.

But like EVs need electricity to charge their batteries, HFC requires electricity to produce the hydrogen.

We still need a clean way to create that electricity in large volumes.

We're at the point where being glued to a single technology is as bad as partisan politics.

We will need a mix of different technologies for different applications to overcome our current issues.

It's going to be a mix of Renewables, home renewables, Nuclear, Coal, Hydrogen "storage", HFC Cars and EVs.

Personally, I'd like to see NASA develop the technology for sourcing hydrogen from ice on Mars using the lower solar availability for their manned missions there. 

Once they have this technology perfected in such a way that it's reliable and robust enough for those conditions plus the trip there while at the same time mobile enough to get it there in the first place, that will eventually lead to the "rooftop solar" version of HFC for home use.

Yes, we're still faced with water issues, but we can work on more than one problem at a time.

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2020 at 2:22pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:53pm: Gordon wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:36pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:33pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:22pm: Robot wrote on Aug 27th, 2020 at 7:38pm: So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use. Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem. Man, this has really owned the greenies! Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen :D LOL Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar :D LOL Totally brain dead liberals as usual. Hydrogen isn't a replacement for EV. It's a replacement for traditional petroleum. It's a replacement for coal and batteries. Hydrogen can be made by any source then used to create leccy. Apparently the tech to go from solar to hydrogen to leccy has just passed an efficiency milestone to make it viable. That's totally brain dead !! Why would i want to pay scumos cronies for their hydrogen rubbish when I can charge up a battery EV directly from rooftop solar ?? Doesn't make any sense to pay for others solar PV to generate hydrogen :D LOL Let's be clear, EVs can't do what Petrol cars can now.  We know this. But, EV is still more efficient in terms of energy required to power, than HFC. So HFC will be the future for anything, not just automotive, where the battery limitations are involved.  So freight transportation, long drives etc. But like EVs need electricity to charge their batteries, HFC requires electricity to produce the hydrogen. We still need a clean way to create that electricity in large volumes. We're at the point where being glued to a single technology is as bad as partisan politics. We will need a mix of different technologies for different applications to overcome our current issues. It's going to be a mix of Renewables, home renewables, Nuclear, Coal, Hydrogen "storage", HFC Cars and EVs.

What can't they do ???

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2020 at 8:52pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 2:22pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:53pm: Gordon wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:36pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:33pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:22pm: Robot wrote on Aug 27th, 2020 at 7:38pm: So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use. Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem. Man, this has really owned the greenies! Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen :D LOL Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar :D LOL Totally brain dead liberals as usual. Hydrogen isn't a replacement for EV. It's a replacement for traditional petroleum. It's a replacement for coal and batteries. Hydrogen can be made by any source then used to create leccy. Apparently the tech to go from solar to hydrogen to leccy has just passed an efficiency milestone to make it viable. That's totally brain dead !! Why would i want to pay scumos cronies for their hydrogen rubbish when I can charge up a battery EV directly from rooftop solar ?? Doesn't make any sense to pay for others solar PV to generate hydrogen :D LOL Let's be clear, EVs can't do what Petrol cars can now.  We know this. But, EV is still more efficient in terms of energy required to power, than HFC. So HFC will be the future for anything, not just automotive, where the battery limitations are involved.  So freight transportation, long drives etc. But like EVs need electricity to charge their batteries, HFC requires electricity to produce the hydrogen. We still need a clean way to create that electricity in large volumes. We're at the point where being glued to a single technology is as bad as partisan politics. We will need a mix of different technologies for different applications to overcome our current issues. It's going to be a mix of Renewables, home renewables, Nuclear, Coal, Hydrogen "storage", HFC Cars and EVs. What can't they do ???

My regular commute, in the before time, was about a 300km round trip, 3 days a week, with 150km the other 2, but that's just to head office.  I would regularly have to drive to the individual sites, often 5 in one day, from Byron Bay to Noosa.  I can't rely on an EV to have that sort of range.  Plus there is bugger al charging stations up this way, although it's getting better.  But it is pretty amazing you can see where they are and how many stations are free when needed and have that factored into the nav etc.

I almost bought a Tesla last month, but I had to be practical.  In the end, went for the hybrid Rav4.

But that's just a regular Joe's workweek.  I'm talking commercial application, freight etc.  Maybe one day, but there is that fine ratio of power needed to cart around the batteries vs what's left for the actual vehicle and its load, sort of like launching things into space where batteries efficiency needs to improve.

And it is.

But the argument used against HFC applies here, EV and current batteries are just not ready.  Tesla are making great strides and they Truck looked great, but the specs just aren't there, yet.

But HFC has none of those problems but even then it is a replacement for standard fuels, not EV.  They will always be side by side, if HFC ever gets off the ground, which like EVs, unless a billionaire comes in and starts trying to get the tech mainstream, there are too many vested interests and lobby groups in the way.

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2020 at 2:13pm:

Gordon wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 1:00pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:53pm: Gordon wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:36pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:33pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:22pm: Robot wrote on Aug 27th, 2020 at 7:38pm: So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use. Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem. Man, this has really owned the greenies! Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen :D LOL Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar :D LOL Totally brain dead liberals as usual. Hydrogen isn't a replacement for EV. It's a replacement for traditional petroleum. It's a replacement for coal and batteries. Hydrogen can be made by any source then used to create leccy. Apparently the tech to go from solar to hydrogen to leccy has just passed an efficiency milestone to make it viable. That's totally brain dead !! Why would i want to pay scumos cronies for their hydrogen rubbish when I can charge up a battery EV directly from rooftop solar ?? Doesn't make any sense to pay for others solar PV to generate hydrogen :D LOL You're as stupid as the day is long. Nobody cares about you and the solar panels you've never own because you're too poor to own house with a roof to put them on and you'll never be able to afford an electric car  ;D ;D ;D Hydrogen offsets/stores renewable energy and it's being pushed by Australia's Chief Scientist. Are you more qualified than he? So just because you want to take it up the arse at the hydrogen fool bowser doesn't mean everyone else does. You'd have to be totally stupid wouldn't you just so some liberal flunky gets to enjoy being a CEO of H2 Fools Incorporated :D LOL Funny how you lot whinge about having to pay $$$ for a BEV but no complaints having to pay $$$ for a hydrogen electric vehicle. That's how you brain dead libbos really think. Bow down to the hydrogen fool CEO's and their hare brained hydrogen fool businesses :D LOL

Wooosh. That was the sound of my point, and the point the smart scientists are making about hydrogen. Excess wind/solar gets sent to produce hydrogen. That hydrogen can be used to create electricity when wind/solar production lower than demand. The hydrogen can also be used to power vehicle if that ever takes off.

Gordon wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 10:48am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 2:13pm: Gordon wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 1:00pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:53pm: Gordon wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:36pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:33pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:22pm: Robot wrote on Aug 27th, 2020 at 7:38pm: So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use. Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem. Man, this has really owned the greenies! Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen :D LOL Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar :D LOL Totally brain dead liberals as usual. Hydrogen isn't a replacement for EV. It's a replacement for traditional petroleum. It's a replacement for coal and batteries. Hydrogen can be made by any source then used to create leccy. Apparently the tech to go from solar to hydrogen to leccy has just passed an efficiency milestone to make it viable. That's totally brain dead !! Why would i want to pay scumos cronies for their hydrogen rubbish when I can charge up a battery EV directly from rooftop solar ?? Doesn't make any sense to pay for others solar PV to generate hydrogen :D LOL You're as stupid as the day is long. Nobody cares about you and the solar panels you've never own because you're too poor to own house with a roof to put them on and you'll never be able to afford an electric car  ;D ;D ;D Hydrogen offsets/stores renewable energy and it's being pushed by Australia's Chief Scientist. Are you more qualified than he? So just because you want to take it up the arse at the hydrogen fool bowser doesn't mean everyone else does. You'd have to be totally stupid wouldn't you just so some liberal flunky gets to enjoy being a CEO of H2 Fools Incorporated :D LOL Funny how you lot whinge about having to pay $$$ for a BEV but no complaints having to pay $$$ for a hydrogen electric vehicle. That's how you brain dead libbos really think. Bow down to the hydrogen fool CEO's and their hare brained hydrogen fool businesses :D LOL Wooosh. That was the sound of my point, and the point the smart scientists are making about hydrogen. Excess wind/solar gets sent to produce hydrogen. That hydrogen can be used to create electricity when wind/solar production lower than demand. The hydrogen can also be used to power vehicle if that ever takes off.

Sounds good.

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 7:30am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 8:52pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 2:22pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:53pm: Gordon wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:36pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:33pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:22pm: Robot wrote on Aug 27th, 2020 at 7:38pm: So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use. Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem. Man, this has really owned the greenies! Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen :D LOL Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar :D LOL Totally brain dead liberals as usual. Hydrogen isn't a replacement for EV. It's a replacement for traditional petroleum. It's a replacement for coal and batteries. Hydrogen can be made by any source then used to create leccy. Apparently the tech to go from solar to hydrogen to leccy has just passed an efficiency milestone to make it viable. That's totally brain dead !! Why would i want to pay scumos cronies for their hydrogen rubbish when I can charge up a battery EV directly from rooftop solar ?? Doesn't make any sense to pay for others solar PV to generate hydrogen :D LOL Let's be clear, EVs can't do what Petrol cars can now.  We know this. But, EV is still more efficient in terms of energy required to power, than HFC. So HFC will be the future for anything, not just automotive, where the battery limitations are involved.  So freight transportation, long drives etc. But like EVs need electricity to charge their batteries, HFC requires electricity to produce the hydrogen. We still need a clean way to create that electricity in large volumes. We're at the point where being glued to a single technology is as bad as partisan politics. We will need a mix of different technologies for different applications to overcome our current issues. It's going to be a mix of Renewables, home renewables, Nuclear, Coal, Hydrogen "storage", HFC Cars and EVs. What can't they do ??? My regular commute, in the before time, was about a 300km round trip, 3 days a week, with 150km the other 2, but that's just to head office.  I would regularly have to drive to the individual sites, often 5 in one day, from Byron Bay to Noosa.  I can't rely on an EV to have that sort of range.  Plus there is bugger al charging stations up this way, although it's getting better.  But it is pretty amazing you can see where they are and how many stations are free when needed and have that factored into the nav etc. I almost bought a Tesla last month, but I had to be practical.  In the end, went for the hybrid Rav4. But that's just a regular Joe's workweek.  I'm talking commercial application, freight etc.  Maybe one day, but there is that fine ratio of power needed to cart around the batteries vs what's left for the actual vehicle and its load, sort of like launching things into space where batteries efficiency needs to improve. And it is. But the argument used against HFC applies here, EV and current batteries are just not ready.  Tesla are making great strides and they Truck looked great, but the specs just aren't there, yet. But HFC has none of those problems but even then it is a replacement for standard fuels, not EV.  They will always be side by side, if HFC ever gets off the ground, which like EVs, unless a billionaire comes in and starts trying to get the tech mainstream, there are too many vested interests and lobby groups in the way.

Doing longer trips won't really give you optimal efficiency from your Hybrid tho. What a pity they didn't make a plug-in version you could get 50km of pure electric from.

I like the Rav but need something bigger so will look at a hybrid Kluger/Santa Fe in 2 or 3 years.

Gordon wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 10:59am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 23rd, 2020 at 7:30am: Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 8:52pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 2:22pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:53pm: Gordon wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:36pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:33pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:22pm: Robot wrote on Aug 27th, 2020 at 7:38pm: So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use. Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem. Man, this has really owned the greenies! Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen :D LOL Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar :D LOL Totally brain dead liberals as usual. Hydrogen isn't a replacement for EV. It's a replacement for traditional petroleum. It's a replacement for coal and batteries. Hydrogen can be made by any source then used to create leccy. Apparently the tech to go from solar to hydrogen to leccy has just passed an efficiency milestone to make it viable. That's totally brain dead !! Why would i want to pay scumos cronies for their hydrogen rubbish when I can charge up a battery EV directly from rooftop solar ?? Doesn't make any sense to pay for others solar PV to generate hydrogen :D LOL Let's be clear, EVs can't do what Petrol cars can now.  We know this. But, EV is still more efficient in terms of energy required to power, than HFC. So HFC will be the future for anything, not just automotive, where the battery limitations are involved.  So freight transportation, long drives etc. But like EVs need electricity to charge their batteries, HFC requires electricity to produce the hydrogen. We still need a clean way to create that electricity in large volumes. We're at the point where being glued to a single technology is as bad as partisan politics. We will need a mix of different technologies for different applications to overcome our current issues. It's going to be a mix of Renewables, home renewables, Nuclear, Coal, Hydrogen "storage", HFC Cars and EVs. What can't they do ??? My regular commute, in the before time, was about a 300km round trip, 3 days a week, with 150km the other 2, but that's just to head office.  I would regularly have to drive to the individual sites, often 5 in one day, from Byron Bay to Noosa.  I can't rely on an EV to have that sort of range.  Plus there is bugger al charging stations up this way, although it's getting better.  But it is pretty amazing you can see where they are and how many stations are free when needed and have that factored into the nav etc. I almost bought a Tesla last month, but I had to be practical.  In the end, went for the hybrid Rav4. But that's just a regular Joe's workweek.  I'm talking commercial application, freight etc.  Maybe one day, but there is that fine ratio of power needed to cart around the batteries vs what's left for the actual vehicle and its load, sort of like launching things into space where batteries efficiency needs to improve. And it is. But the argument used against HFC applies here, EV and current batteries are just not ready.  Tesla are making great strides and they Truck looked great, but the specs just aren't there, yet. But HFC has none of those problems but even then it is a replacement for standard fuels, not EV.  They will always be side by side, if HFC ever gets off the ground, which like EVs, unless a billionaire comes in and starts trying to get the tech mainstream, there are too many vested interests and lobby groups in the way. Doing longer trips won't really give you optimal efficiency from your Hybrid tho. What a pity they didn't make a plug-in version you could get 50km of pure electric from. I like the Rav but need something bigger so will look at a hybrid Kluger/Santa Fe in 2 or 3 years.

They're talking about a hybrid Hilux. That might be good.

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 7:30am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 8:52pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 2:22pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:53pm: Gordon wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:36pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:33pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:22pm: Robot wrote on Aug 27th, 2020 at 7:38pm: So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use. Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem. Man, this has really owned the greenies! Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen :D LOL Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar :D LOL Totally brain dead liberals as usual. Hydrogen isn't a replacement for EV. It's a replacement for traditional petroleum. It's a replacement for coal and batteries. Hydrogen can be made by any source then used to create leccy. Apparently the tech to go from solar to hydrogen to leccy has just passed an efficiency milestone to make it viable. That's totally brain dead !! Why would i want to pay scumos cronies for their hydrogen rubbish when I can charge up a battery EV directly from rooftop solar ?? Doesn't make any sense to pay for others solar PV to generate hydrogen :D LOL Let's be clear, EVs can't do what Petrol cars can now.  We know this. But, EV is still more efficient in terms of energy required to power, than HFC. So HFC will be the future for anything, not just automotive, where the battery limitations are involved.  So freight transportation, long drives etc. But like EVs need electricity to charge their batteries, HFC requires electricity to produce the hydrogen. We still need a clean way to create that electricity in large volumes. We're at the point where being glued to a single technology is as bad as partisan politics. We will need a mix of different technologies for different applications to overcome our current issues. It's going to be a mix of Renewables, home renewables, Nuclear, Coal, Hydrogen "storage", HFC Cars and EVs. What can't they do ??? My regular commute, in the before time, was about a 300km round trip, 3 days a week, with 150km the other 2, but that's just to head office.  I would regularly have to drive to the individual sites, often 5 in one day, from Byron Bay to Noosa.  I can't rely on an EV to have that sort of range.  Plus there is bugger al charging stations up this way, although it's getting better.  But it is pretty amazing you can see where they are and how many stations are free when needed and have that factored into the nav etc. I almost bought a Tesla last month, but I had to be practical.  In the end, went for the hybrid Rav4. But that's just a regular Joe's workweek.  I'm talking commercial application, freight etc.  Maybe one day, but there is that fine ratio of power needed to cart around the batteries vs what's left for the actual vehicle and its load, sort of like launching things into space where batteries efficiency needs to improve. And it is. But the argument used against HFC applies here, EV and current batteries are just not ready.  Tesla are making great strides and they Truck looked great, but the specs just aren't there, yet. But HFC has none of those problems but even then it is a replacement for standard fuels, not EV.  They will always be side by side, if HFC ever gets off the ground, which like EVs, unless a billionaire comes in and starts trying to get the tech mainstream, there are too many vested interests and lobby groups in the way.

You're talking rubbish of not being ready. Most people would make use of the technology as it is and not wait until their is some magical battery that charges itself from thin air.

In the US and Europe they have thousands of charging stations everywhere. I don't hear scumo and co talking about installing charging stations as part of their energy solution. Why ??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdNjSZWe21U

Gordon wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 10:48am:

Wooosh. That was the sound of my point, and the point the smart scientists are making about hydrogen. Excess wind/solar gets sent to produce hydrogen. That hydrogen can be used to create electricity when wind/solar production lower than demand. The hydrogen can also be used to power vehicle if that ever takes off.

That sounds exactly like a description of a battery !! Why do I need to pay someone to store excess energy in hydrogen molecules when I can store it at home using my own battery chemistry and not have to pay for it ?? Better still some EV's have bi-directional charging so you can utilize the car as bulk storage for excess energy from rooftop solar and then later on use that energy at night ;)

And where are these hydrogen vehicles ? Still coming or anther 20 years off ??

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 11:28am:

Gordon wrote on Sep 23rd, 2020 at 10:48am: Wooosh. That was the sound of my point, and the point the smart scientists are making about hydrogen. Excess wind/solar gets sent to produce hydrogen. That hydrogen can be used to create electricity when wind/solar production lower than demand. The hydrogen can also be used to power vehicle if that ever takes off. That sounds exactly like a description of a battery !! Why do I need to pay someone to store excess energy in hydrogen molecules when I can store it at home using my own battery chemistry and not have to pay for it ?? Better still some EV's have bi-directional charging so you can utilize the car as bulk storage for excess energy from rooftop solar and then later on use that energy at night ;) And where are these hydrogen vehicles ? Still coming or anther 20 years off ??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hydrogen_internal_combustion_engine_vehicles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Mirai
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Nexo

Gordon wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 10:59am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 23rd, 2020 at 7:30am: Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 8:52pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 2:22pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:53pm: Gordon wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:36pm: SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:33pm: Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:22pm: Robot wrote on Aug 27th, 2020 at 7:38pm: So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use. Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem. Man, this has really owned the greenies! Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen :D LOL Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar :D LOL Totally brain dead liberals as usual. Hydrogen isn't a replacement for EV. It's a replacement for traditional petroleum. It's a replacement for coal and batteries. Hydrogen can be made by any source then used to create leccy. Apparently the tech to go from solar to hydrogen to leccy has just passed an efficiency milestone to make it viable. That's totally brain dead !! Why would i want to pay scumos cronies for their hydrogen rubbish when I can charge up a battery EV directly from rooftop solar ?? Doesn't make any sense to pay for others solar PV to generate hydrogen :D LOL Let's be clear, EVs can't do what Petrol cars can now.  We know this. But, EV is still more efficient in terms of energy required to power, than HFC. So HFC will be the future for anything, not just automotive, where the battery limitations are involved.  So freight transportation, long drives etc. But like EVs need electricity to charge their batteries, HFC requires electricity to produce the hydrogen. We still need a clean way to create that electricity in large volumes. We're at the point where being glued to a single technology is as bad as partisan politics. We will need a mix of different technologies for different applications to overcome our current issues. It's going to be a mix of Renewables, home renewables, Nuclear, Coal, Hydrogen "storage", HFC Cars and EVs. What can't they do ??? My regular commute, in the before time, was about a 300km round trip, 3 days a week, with 150km the other 2, but that's just to head office.  I would regularly have to drive to the individual sites, often 5 in one day, from Byron Bay to Noosa.  I can't rely on an EV to have that sort of range.  Plus there is bugger al charging stations up this way, although it's getting better.  But it is pretty amazing you can see where they are and how many stations are free when needed and have that factored into the nav etc. I almost bought a Tesla last month, but I had to be practical.  In the end, went for the hybrid Rav4. But that's just a regular Joe's workweek.  I'm talking commercial application, freight etc.  Maybe one day, but there is that fine ratio of power needed to cart around the batteries vs what's left for the actual vehicle and its load, sort of like launching things into space where batteries efficiency needs to improve. And it is. But the argument used against HFC applies here, EV and current batteries are just not ready.  Tesla are making great strides and they Truck looked great, but the specs just aren't there, yet. But HFC has none of those problems but even then it is a replacement for standard fuels, not EV.  They will always be side by side, if HFC ever gets off the ground, which like EVs, unless a billionaire comes in and starts trying to get the tech mainstream, there are too many vested interests and lobby groups in the way. Doing longer trips won't really give you optimal efficiency from your Hybrid tho. What a pity they didn't make a plug-in version you could get 50km of pure electric from. I like the Rav but need something bigger so will look at a hybrid Kluger/Santa Fe in 2 or 3 years.

Yeah, they are all downfalls of it, but it's better than nothing.

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 11:28am:

Gordon wrote on Sep 23rd, 2020 at 10:48am: Wooosh. That was the sound of my point, and the point the smart scientists are making about hydrogen. Excess wind/solar gets sent to produce hydrogen. That hydrogen can be used to create electricity when wind/solar production lower than demand. The hydrogen can also be used to power vehicle if that ever takes off. That sounds exactly like a description of a battery !! Why do I need to pay someone to store excess energy in hydrogen molecules when I can store it at home using my own battery chemistry and not have to pay for it ?? Better still some EV's have bi-directional charging so you can utilize the car as bulk storage for excess energy from rooftop solar and then later on use that energy at night ;) And where are these hydrogen vehicles ? Still coming or anther 20 years off ??

You're not a lateral thinker. Growing cities, densification, apartment living.

Anyway, why are you worrying about an electric car you'll never buy to charge from solar on the roof of the house you'll never own?

Hydrogen has much going for it, however new research suggests to use it to our greatest advantage we may need to be careful regarding leakage.



Quote:

Reactions in the atmosphere: In the atmosphere, ozone and water vapour react with sunlight to produce what are known as hydroxyl radicals. These powerful oxidants react with and help remove other chemicals released into the atmosphere via natural and human processes, such as burning fossil fuels. One of these chemicals is methane, a potent greenhouse gas. But hydrogen also reacts with hydroxyl radicals and, in doing so, reduces their concentration. Any hydrogen leaked into the atmosphere – such as during production, transport or at the point of use – could cause this reaction. This would reduce the number of hydroxyl radicals available for their important cleansing function. Hydrogen on the rise: Hydrogen concentrations in the atmosphere are monitored around the world. Collectively, the data show an increase over time. This includes in Ireland and at Cape Grim in Tasmania’s northwest, where hydrogen concentrations have increased by about 4% in the past 25 years. With our current understanding of the hydrogen cycle, it’s not possible to say why this has occurred. Indeed, this is the challenge: improving understanding so we can anticipate any effects of hydrogen leakage and decide what acceptable leakage rates might be. Based on what we do know, hydrogen may increase global warming by 20-30% that of methane if leaked into the atmosphere. Our understanding so far suggests that if a hydrogen economy replaced the fossil fuel-based energy system and had a leakage rate of 1%, its climate impact would be 0.6% of the fossil fuel system. But we need to better understand the hydrogen cycle, such as how land surfaces absorb hydrogen. In the meantime, we must try to minimize leakage of hydrogen in production, storage and use. Looking ahead: It’s possible the emission of hydrogen from reticulation and distribution systems will be low. But specifying how low this should be, and what engineering approaches are appropriate, should be part of the development process. A hydrogen-based energy future may likely provide an attractive option in the quest for a zero-carbon economy. But all aspects of the hydrogen option should be considered in an holistic and evidence-based assessment. This would ensure any transition to a hydrogen economy brings climate benefits far beyond fossil-fuel-based energy systems.

https://revolution-green.com/hydrogen-leakage-might-detrimental-affecting-chemical-reactions-atmosphere/

juliar wrote on Aug 27^th, 2020 at 5:21pm:

Canberra is going hydrogen. Canberra has 20 hydrogen cars ready to go but the Virus is slowing down the installation of the hydrogen filling station. ACT government’s 20-vehicle hydrogen fleet grounded due to Covid difficulties AUGUST 6, 20206 COMMENTS2 MINUTE READMICHAEL MAZENGARB

Or is it a case that with only 20 hydrogen fool vehicles in the whole country it makes no economic sense to install hydrogen fool bowsers :D LOL

Gordon wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 2:19pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 23rd, 2020 at 11:28am: Gordon wrote on Sep 23rd, 2020 at 10:48am: Wooosh. That was the sound of my point, and the point the smart scientists are making about hydrogen. Excess wind/solar gets sent to produce hydrogen. That hydrogen can be used to create electricity when wind/solar production lower than demand. The hydrogen can also be used to power vehicle if that ever takes off. That sounds exactly like a description of a battery !! Why do I need to pay someone to store excess energy in hydrogen molecules when I can store it at home using my own battery chemistry and not have to pay for it ?? Better still some EV's have bi-directional charging so you can utilize the car as bulk storage for excess energy from rooftop solar and then later on use that energy at night ;) And where are these hydrogen vehicles ? Still coming or anther 20 years off ?? You're not a lateral thinker. Growing cities, densification, apartment living. Anyway, why are you worrying about an electric car you'll never buy to charge from solar on the roof of the house you'll never own?

Well I still see lots of fossil fool cars on the road and I don't see fool bowsers closing down anytime soon so I guess personal transportation has a long way to go ;)

I know one dude who charges his EV for free on the weekend from rooftop solar ready to last him the whole week all for nothing might I add. Certainly beats taking it up the arse at the fossil fool bowser and giving your solar energy away to some LNP voting energy retailer scammer for 8 cents a kWhr only for them to onsell it at 3-5 times that price to a sucker like yourself !!

0ktema wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 3:41pm:

Hydrogen has much going for it, however new research suggests to use it to our greatest advantage we may need to be careful regarding leakage. Quote: Reactions in the atmosphere: In the atmosphere, ozone and water vapour react with sunlight to produce what are known as hydroxyl radicals. These powerful oxidants react with and help remove other chemicals released into the atmosphere via natural and human processes, such as burning fossil fuels. One of these chemicals is methane, a potent greenhouse gas. But hydrogen also reacts with hydroxyl radicals and, in doing so, reduces their concentration. Any hydrogen leaked into the atmosphere – such as during production, transport or at the point of use – could cause this reaction. This would reduce the number of hydroxyl radicals available for their important cleansing function. Hydrogen on the rise: Hydrogen concentrations in the atmosphere are monitored around the world. Collectively, the data show an increase over time. This includes in Ireland and at Cape Grim in Tasmania’s northwest, where hydrogen concentrations have increased by about 4% in the past 25 years. With our current understanding of the hydrogen cycle, it’s not possible to say why this has occurred. Indeed, this is the challenge: improving understanding so we can anticipate any effects of hydrogen leakage and decide what acceptable leakage rates might be. Based on what we do know, hydrogen may increase global warming by 20-30% that of methane if leaked into the atmosphere. Our understanding so far suggests that if a hydrogen economy replaced the fossil fuel-based energy system and had a leakage rate of 1%, its climate impact would be 0.6% of the fossil fuel system. But we need to better understand the hydrogen cycle, such as how land surfaces absorb hydrogen. In the meantime, we must try to minimize leakage of hydrogen in production, storage and use. Looking ahead: It’s possible the emission of hydrogen from reticulation and distribution systems will be low. But specifying how low this should be, and what engineering approaches are appropriate, should be part of the development process. A hydrogen-based energy future may likely provide an attractive option in the quest for a zero-carbon economy. But all aspects of the hydrogen option should be considered in an holistic and evidence-based assessment. This would ensure any transition to a hydrogen economy brings climate benefits far beyond fossil-fuel-based energy systems. https://revolution-green.com/hydrogen-leakage-might-detrimental-affecting-chemical-reactions-atmosphere/

They have a really impressive site but they are full of it! When hydrogen is released into the atmosphere it combines with the oxygen we breathe and produces Dihydrogen monoxide. While that may sound deadly it is actually a common substance found in almost everything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_parody


There is no environmental impact to the release of hydrogen into the atmosphere! The whole question is really how practical is hydrogen production for different uses.


Biden's Energy Plan: Sacrificing Goats to the Sun Gods

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/10/bidens_energy_plan_sacrificing_goats_to_the_sun_gods.html

Mortdooley wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2020 at 9:40pm:

0ktema wrote on Sep 23rd, 2020 at 3:41pm: Hydrogen has much going for it, however new research suggests to use it to our greatest advantage we may need to be careful regarding leakage. Quote: Reactions in the atmosphere: In the atmosphere, ozone and water vapour react with sunlight to produce what are known as hydroxyl radicals. These powerful oxidants react with and help remove other chemicals released into the atmosphere via natural and human processes, such as burning fossil fuels. One of these chemicals is methane, a potent greenhouse gas. But hydrogen also reacts with hydroxyl radicals and, in doing so, reduces their concentration. Any hydrogen leaked into the atmosphere – such as during production, transport or at the point of use – could cause this reaction. This would reduce the number of hydroxyl radicals available for their important cleansing function. Hydrogen on the rise: Hydrogen concentrations in the atmosphere are monitored around the world. Collectively, the data show an increase over time. This includes in Ireland and at Cape Grim in Tasmania’s northwest, where hydrogen concentrations have increased by about 4% in the past 25 years. With our current understanding of the hydrogen cycle, it’s not possible to say why this has occurred. Indeed, this is the challenge: improving understanding so we can anticipate any effects of hydrogen leakage and decide what acceptable leakage rates might be. Based on what we do know, hydrogen may increase global warming by 20-30% that of methane if leaked into the atmosphere. Our understanding so far suggests that if a hydrogen economy replaced the fossil fuel-based energy system and had a leakage rate of 1%, its climate impact would be 0.6% of the fossil fuel system. But we need to better understand the hydrogen cycle, such as how land surfaces absorb hydrogen. In the meantime, we must try to minimize leakage of hydrogen in production, storage and use. Looking ahead: It’s possible the emission of hydrogen from reticulation and distribution systems will be low. But specifying how low this should be, and what engineering approaches are appropriate, should be part of the development process. A hydrogen-based energy future may likely provide an attractive option in the quest for a zero-carbon economy. But all aspects of the hydrogen option should be considered in an holistic and evidence-based assessment. This would ensure any transition to a hydrogen economy brings climate benefits far beyond fossil-fuel-based energy systems. https://revolution-green.com/hydrogen-leakage-might-detrimental-affecting-chemical-reactions-atmosphere/ They have a really impressive site but they are full of it! When hydrogen is released into the atmosphere it combines with the oxygen we breathe and produces Dihydrogen monoxide. While that may sound deadly it is actually a common substance found in almost everything. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_parody There is no environmental impact to the release of hydrogen into the atmosphere! The whole question is really how practical is hydrogen production for different uses. Biden's Energy Plan: Sacrificing Goats to the Sun Gods https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/10/bidens_energy_plan_sacrificing_goats_to_the_sun_gods.html

The part you for some reason overlooked
Hydrogen reacting with hydroxyl radicals reduces the atmospheres ability to deal with methane and other chemicals :-

Quote:

hydrogen also reacts with hydroxyl radicals and, in doing so, reduces their concentration. Any hydrogen leaked into the atmosphere – such as during production, transport or at the point of use – could cause this reaction. This would reduce the number of hydroxyl radicals available for their important cleansing function.